Fast Defense

[cuzz4169]

I was reading what type of players Coach Fox will be looking for. FAST...they want a fast defense to create havoc. I like it, Denver used to have 3 fast Linebackers and the defense was pretty good then. We definitely need to get faster at the safety position.

what you guys think?

[broncofaninfla]

I hope to see us get faster at LB and bigger and more physical up front. We have fast defenses in the past and they were effective but seemed to get manhandled when it counted.

[rcsodak]

Speed kills
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[cuzz4169]

I hope to see us get faster at LB and bigger and more physical up front. We have fast defenses in the past and they were effective but seemed to get manhandled when it counted.

I think for sure we need to get faster at LB & Safety. DJ and Woodyard are fine. Up front Doom is fine, Thomas is athletic and big, other than that whats on the roster is nothing athletic or special.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Definitely need to get faster at LB. I don't think our speed at S is too bad right now, certainly not something that I would worry about at this point.

[cuzz4169]

Definitely need to get faster at LB. I don't think our speed at S is too bad right now, certainly not something that I would worry about at this point.

It's bad...teams attack the deep middle with a lot of success. Hill & Dawkins slow...Bruton special teamer, Mcbath never healthy.

[rcsodak]

It's bad...teams attack the deep middle with a lot of success. Hill & Dawkins slow...Bruton special teamer, Mcbath never healthy.

Big/fast MLB would sure do wonders as well. I like Mays, but can he cover the middle seams? DJ is a chaser.
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[SOCALORADO.]

It's bad...teams attack the deep middle with a lot of success. Hill & Dawkins slow...Bruton special teamer, Mcbath never healthy.

This issue would be completely irrelevant if DEN could rush the passer.
The problem is the front 7, not the secondary.

[cuzz4169]

This issue would be completely irrelevant if DEN could rush the passer.
The problem is the front 7, not the secondary.

It's not always the case, fans act like you get to the qb every pass attempt. We still had the problem in 2009 when doom was sacking everyone.

[rcsodak]

It's not always the case, fans act like you get to the qb every pass attempt. We still had the problem in 2009 when doom was sacking everyone.
To be fair, they didn't have a front 7 that scared anybody.
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[topscribe]

Well, that kind of puts Haggan on the hot seat. Speed is definitely not his forté.
That also would seem definitely to put Ayers on the DL since is nowhere near
fast by LB standards. Dumervil has some speed, but he is a natural DE, and D.J.,
who has speed coming out of his ears, will be at Will, and it would be a waste
to put Doom at Sam (actually, that's a ridiculous thought, isn't it?).

This factor might keep Hunter, with his 4.6 speed, at Sam. At MLB, Mays isn't
bad at 4.7 . . . not terribly good either, but it would depend on how well he
reads offenses and reacts to the ball. That can go a long way toward adding
to football speed.

This is why I have always hoped they would give Larsen a serious look at MLB.
He is not fleet afoot at all, but his anticipation and ability to read plays is off
the charts. He always seemed to be around the ball at LB.

And, of course, we can't forget about Woodyard: speed galore at depth . . .

Anyway, there is my 2¢.

-----

[cuzz4169]

I understand putting pressure on the QB helps...but you need someone to cover for at least a 4 secs. an avg nfl play last 7 secs. Patriots 36 sacks this yr had third worse pass d in yards...titans 40 sacks and great qb pressure had 4th worst D in terms of passing yards.

you still need players in your secondary.

Not saying pressure doesn't mean a lot but you guys make it sound like that's everything. you still have to cover people.

[cuzz4169]

Well, that kind of puts Haggan on the hot seat. Speed is definitely not his forté.
That also would seem definitely to put Ayers on the DL since is nowhere near
fast by LB standards. Dumervil has some speed, but he is a natural DE, and D.J.,
who has speed coming out of his ears, will be at Will, and it would be a waste
to put Doom at Sam (actually, that's a ridiculous thought, isn't it?).

This factor might keep Hunter, with his 4.6 speed, at Sam. At MLB, Mays isn't
bad at 4.7 . . . not terribly good either, but it would depend on how well he
reads offenses and reacts to the ball. That can go a long way toward adding
to football speed.

This is why I have always hoped they would give Larsen a serious look at MLB.
He is not fleet afoot at all, but his anticipation and ability to read plays is off
the charts. He always seemed to be around the ball at LB.

And, of course, we can't forget about Woodyard: speed galore at depth . . .

Anyway, there is my 2¢.

-----

no way hunter is that fast lol I watched him get an int and run looked like he was in slow motion lol.

If we don't find a MLB I wouldn't mind seeing DJ stay at MLB and Woodyard at WLB.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Well, that criteria would certainly eliminate most of the players in this draft :lol:

Let's see that would put the best values as:

ILB:
1) Wilson (assuming he clears medical for his neck)
2a) Carter (a reach at 2nd or 3rd round considering he just had his knee rebuilt in Dec)
2b) Sheppard (good value in 3rd or 4th)
3) Sturdivant (needs some work, hammy & weed issues)

DT:
1) Fairley
2) Dareus
3) Paea
4) Austin

SS:
McDaniel

FS:
1) Moore
2) Carter
3) Williams
4) Sands

Anybody else would depend on combine results (and those above being validated by combine numbers).

Based on size/speed, best values would be:

2) Fairley or Dareus
36) Wilson, Paea or Austin
46) McDaniel or Moore, Carter
67) Sheppard or Williams, Sands

Not sure I'd want Fairley & Austin in the same lockerroom though...

They might kill each other, or worse, become friends and kill other people at niteclubs... :confused:

[SOCALORADO.]

I understand putting pressure on the QB helps...but you need someone to cover for at least a 4 secs. an avg nfl play last 7 secs. Patriots 36 sacks this yr had third worse pass d in yards...titans 40 sacks and great qb pressure had 4th worst D in terms of passing yards.

you still need players in your secondary.

Not saying pressure doesn't mean a lot but you guys make it sound like that's everything. you still have to cover people.

Right. We all already know this.
Only you make it sound like the secondary players are absolutely at fault for all of the defensive issues. And most of us can already see where this is going because it happens every year for quite some time now, since DENs front 7 have sucked so bad.
Again, the majority of the issues is on the front 7, not the secondary.

But lets just cut to the chase, since youve been pissing and moaning about the secondary. Go ahead and make you big, looney case for drafting a safety in the top 3 rounds.
Go ahead and just make your Lex-like case and we can get it out of the way, and while you rant and rant right up until the draft about how badly DEN needs to draft "so and so", we will all know who you want and we can get all the ranting outta the way now.
Knock yourself out........

[cuzz4169]

Right. We all already know this.
Only you make it sound like the secondary players are absolutely at fault for all of the defensive issues. And most of us can already see where this is going because it happens every year for quite some time now, since DENs front 7 have sucked so bad.
Again, the majority of the issues is on the front 7, not the secondary.

But lets just cut to the chase, since youve been pissing and moaning about the secondary. Go ahead and make you big, looney case for drafting a safety in the top 3 rounds.
Go ahead and just make your Lex-like case and we can get it out of the way, and while you rant and rant right up until the draft about how badly DEN needs to draft "so and so", we will all know who you want and we can get all the ranting outta the way now.
Knock yourself out........

Not once have I ever mentioned we need to take a DB with the second pick. Im fine with any of these 5 Da'Quan Bowers, Nick Fairley, Patrick Peterson, Von Miller or Marcell Dareus.

But I'm saying are secondary is also a huge problem besides champ. If you don't think so your mistaking. Need a combination of both, need some pass rush and need to be able to cover or we will never go anywhere in playoffs...Remember Brady, Manning, Rivers & Ben are all in the AFC and can throw the ball. Need both pressure and coverage to beat these guys. So sacking the QB against any of these guys isn't easy need to cover.

[cuzz4169]

Ask Houston how its worked out not addressing the secondary playing manning twice a year.

[SOCALORADO.]

Not once have I ever mentioned we need to take a DB with the second pick. Im fine with any of these 5 Da'Quan Bowers, Nick Fairley, Patrick Peterson, Von Miller or Marcell Dareus.

But I'm saying are secondary is also a huge problem besides champ. If you don't think so your mistaking. Need a combination of both, need some pass rush and need to be able to cover or we will never go anywhere in playoffs...Remember Brady, Manning, Rivers & Ben are all in the AFC and can throw the ball. Need both pressure and coverage to beat these guys. So sacking the QB against any of these guys isn't easy need to cover.

Yeah, youve been making your case for drafting a safety in the top 3 picks for quite some time now, and no one is gonna go spend time looking it up.
So just tell us who you want, stop suddenly denying it, and we can get it outta the way.
Go ahead dude, make your case.

[dogfish]

this defense is desperate for an infusion of speed and athleticism. . . they need to do it without going puny, though-- no ian golds, please. . .

williams and woody are the only 'backers we have that fit the description, and this draft class looks kinda shit at linebacker. . . we really need to add at least one solid veteran LB if we have any intention of being competitive this year. . . steven tulloch would do nicely. . . i sus pect james anderson and thomas davis are more likely to be one our radar, but that doesn't really solve our problem at MIKE unless anderson can play there. . .

and we absolutely need better range and footspeed at safety-- i don't see how that can even be questioned. . . it wouldn't be my top priority, but pending how the rest of the draft goes quinton carter would definitely be on my radar in the second or third. . . fairley or dareus at #2, DL at the top of the second, and spend the next two on safety, LB or maybe ORT if we don't keep harris-- something to that effect. . .

it's all screwed up this year without a free agency period before the draft. . . as far as i'm concerned we're retarded and basically deserve to lose if we don't take advantage of the rare depth and diversity of this year's DL class to add at least two legit talents there-- beyond that, just identify the best players that will fill holes anywhere. . . we can't fill anywhere near close to all our holes in this draft, so emphasize trying to find a few guys you believe can be long-term fits. . . we're going to either have to dip pretty significantly into free agency (unlikely, IMO), or just accept that we're going to have to get by with what we currently have in some spots for a couple years. . .

but there's no doubt, youth, speed and athleticism are all sorely needed on defense. . . any help in that direction will be welcome. . .

[cuzz4169]

Yeah, youve been making your case for drafting a safety in the top 3 picks for quite some time now, and no one is gonna go spend time looking it up.
So just tell us who you want, stop suddenly denying it, and we can get it outta the way.
Go ahead dude, make your case.

what are you talking about....With 2nd round picks take best available if its a DB then its a DB.

[SOCALORADO.]

what are you talking about....With 2nd round picks take best available if its a DB then its a DB.

Ok, so with your line of reasoning that all of the current DEN safeties suck, WHO should DEN take with one of those picks? Or the 3rd round pick?

[cuzz4169]

Ok, so with your line of reasoning that all of the current DEN safeties suck, WHO should DEN take with one of those picks? Or the 3rd round pick?

I said denver should sign Landry from bmore. I don't know who denver should take with its 2nd and 3rd rd pick bc I don't know who's gonna b there.

[underrated29]

I dont give a goats ass if we become a fast defense a small defense, a mean defense or anything else as long as we get the front lines of our defense some effing Studs.



I disagree about our CB. I think we are fine there. Champ, Goody- even though he has been injured 2x in the past 3 years, when healthy the guy is ROCK solid. We had the #4 pass D with nolan here and his respectable scheme.


Saftey is big issue, MLB is big issue, but those matter not until we fix the DL and so it brings me full circle to I do not care how fast of a D we are. You can be speedy gonzales on the back 7 as long as our front 4 are Beasts.

[SOCALORADO.]

I dont give a goats ass if we become a fast defense a small defense, a mean defense or anything else as long as we get the front lines of our defense some effing Studs.



I disagree about our CB. I think we are fine there. Champ, Goody- even though he has been injured 2x in the past 3 years, when healthy the guy is ROCK solid. We had the #4 pass D with nolan here and his respectable scheme.


Saftey is big issue, MLB is big issue, but those matter not until we fix the DL and so it brings me full circle to I do not care how fast of a D we are. You can be speedy gonzales on the back 7 as long as our front 4 are Beasts.

The biggest problem on the Denver Broncos is the front 7. No other position even comes remotely close, and the secondary benefits the most from these positions being addressed. Specifically the front 4 in a 4-3 base defense, which is what DEN is gonna play.
Yeah, i know that there will be hybrid plays occasionally. Whatever.
DEN absloutley has to addrress the front 7 with the top 3 picks in this draft.
Unless DEN can get DT Brandon Mebane or DT/DE Barry Cofield in FA, the top picks must go to the defensive line.
Safety isnt even a remote issue. And considering there are currently a ton of solid FA's available at safety, it makes it even less of an issue.

I would say that SmilinAssassins mock draft is the exact template for DENs success.
1st. Dareus DT
2nd Watt DE
2nd M.Wilson MLB
3rd Stocker TE
6th JHarper RB
7th CMarsh CB

Add just a few FAs like Dawan Landry or Roman Harper at Safety, and James Anderson at SAM, and the defense has been totally revamped in one offseason. I say build with the draft and start doing it consistently, but also this year specifically, build just a little through FA, cause DEN needs some players with leadership and ability to make the defense legit.

[I Eat Staples]

I don't like "speed" defenses. They get run all over. See: Indianapolis Colts.

On a side note, I hope no one fools themselves into thinking Joe Mays is a starter in this league.

[SOCALORADO.]

I don't like "speed" defenses. They get run all over. See: Indianapolis Colts.

On a side note, I hope no one fools themselves into thinking Joe Mays is a starter in this league.

He should be kept for depth. Hes a solid MLB in a 4-3 defense. And if DEN drafts a young MLB, Mays could hold down the fort for a while until the rook is ready.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

this defense is desperate for an infusion of speed and athleticism. . . they need to do it without going puny, though-- no ian golds, please. . .

williams and woody are the only 'backers we have that fit the description, and this draft class looks kinda shit at linebacker. . . we really need to add at least one solid veteran LB if we have any intention of being competitive this year. . . steven tulloch would do nicely. . . i sus pect james anderson and thomas davis are more likely to be one our radar, but that doesn't really solve our problem at MIKE unless anderson can play there. . .

and we absolutely need better range and footspeed at safety-- i don't see how that can even be questioned. . . it wouldn't be my top priority, but pending how the rest of the draft goes quinton carter would definitely be on my radar in the second or third. . . fairley or dareus at #2, DL at the top of the second, and spend the next two on safety, LB or maybe ORT if we don't keep harris-- something to that effect. . .

it's all screwed up this year without a free agency period before the draft. . . as far as i'm concerned we're retarded and basically deserve to lose if we don't take advantage of the rare depth and diversity of this year's DL class to add at least two legit talents there-- beyond that, just identify the best players that will fill holes anywhere. . . we can't fill anywhere near close to all our holes in this draft, so emphasize trying to find a few guys you believe can be long-term fits. . . we're going to either have to dip pretty significantly into free agency (unlikely, IMO), or just accept that we're going to have to get by with what we currently have in some spots for a couple years. . .

but there's no doubt, youth, speed and athleticism are all sorely needed on defense. . . any help in that direction will be welcome. . .

Agree... especially with filling MLB in FA

LB & ROT crop very weak in this draft...

Wilson, if he clears medical, is rumored to be into the late 1st round now... afterwards... :(

I'm a little concerned about NFL Network combine report about Broncos taking a hard look at Quinn & Bowers at #2, less concerned though if we could snag Paea or Austin at 36 afterwards...

Once you get past Ijalana & Sherrod it's mostly crap at ROT, I'm hopeful if we get a 4th rounder we could take a shot at Gilbert but best would also likely be a FA pickup.

I'd be so happy if we could get Fairley & Paea or Austin & Carter & Sheppard. Sign a FA MLB & replace Harris with the 67 instead of Sheppard and away we go...

[SOCALORADO.]

Agree... especially with filling MLB in FA

LB & ROT crop very weak in this draft...

Wilson, if he clears medical, is rumored to be into the late 1st round now... afterwards... :(

I'm a little concerned about NFL Network combine report about Broncos taking a hard look at Quinn & Bowers at #2, less concerned though if we could snag Paea or Austin at 36 afterwards...

Once you get past Ijalana & Sherrod it's mostly crap at ROT, I'm hopeful if we get a 4th rounder we could take a shot at Gilbert but best would also likely be a FA pickup.

I'd be so happy if we could get Fairley & Paea or Austin & Carter & Sheppard. Sign a FA MLB & replace Harris with the 67 instead of Sheppard and away we go...

I guess DEN could look at trying to sign Steve Tullock, but he will cost a arm and a leg. Hes only 26, and wil command a big payday.
Other than him, there Posluzny, who everyone hates or Cooper, but i think SD resigns him.
As for RT, Carl Nicks will hit the open market, and could be had at Guard, but there isnt really any solid options in FA at RT. I just dont think Clabo or Yanda are going anywhere.

[underrated29]

I would say that SmilinAssassins mock draft is the exact template for DENs success.
1st. Dareus DT
2nd Watt DE
2nd M.Wilson MLB
3rd Stocker TE
6th JHarper RB
7th CMarsh CB



Watt is going to go top 10, guranteed top 15. And I think the broncos take a ORT at the lastest with our 3rd rd pick assuming harris does not walk. We will make him an offer, but it wont be much more than the min. If someone offers him something better he will walk. But I would love to see an ORT in FA, same with a S and MLB...by cutting dawk, graham, and hopefully orton traded we should have a lot of sexy cap space to get legitimate starters at those positions, not just fill ins like we are used to seeing.

[bcbronc]

Safety isnt even a remote issue. And considering there are currently a ton of solid FA's available at safety, it makes it even less of an issue.



you're bonkers if you believe that. S is arguable our weakest spot on the entire team. leaving Dawkins aside, we don't have even ONE legit NFL caliber starter on the roster. And I'm not sure I'd call Dawkins a legit starter at this point in his career.

at least on DL you have Ayers-Vickerson/Jwill-Thomas-Doom

at least at LB you have some combination of DJ-Mays-WW.

agreed, both need upgrades. but not nearly as bad as McBath (Vaughn when McBath is hurt)-Bruton. That's probably one of the worst S pairs in the league, and yes safety is actually an important position.

find me one good to great defense without at least one good to great S. doesn't happen. Get a S in the 2nd round this year, make do with what we have at LB (on the roster and UFA) and address LB next year, when the crop should be much deeper. Safety is every bit as big an issue as DL simply because we have absolutely nada currently on the roster.

and no, I don't want to go outbid teams for a S when we're likely 1-2 more offseasons away. I'm fine with a cheap, short-term bandaid while we groom a rookie, but I'm not fine with leaving S to next year or overpaying to get one on the open market.

[gobroncsnv]

Moch out of UNR would be a good pickup to improve our speed at lb. others have said that, but I don't picture him being within the first 2 rounds.

[cuzz4169]

The biggest problem on the Denver Broncos is the front 7. No other position even comes remotely close, and the secondary benefits the most from these positions being addressed. Specifically the front 4 in a 4-3 base defense, which is what DEN is gonna play.
Yeah, i know that there will be hybrid plays occasionally. Whatever.
DEN absloutley has to addrress the front 7 with the top 3 picks in this draft.
Unless DEN can get DT Brandon Mebane or DT/DE Barry Cofield in FA, the top picks must go to the defensive line.
Safety isnt even a remote issue. And considering there are currently a ton of solid FA's available at safety, it makes it even less of an issue.

I would say that SmilinAssassins mock draft is the exact template for DENs success.
1st. Dareus DT
2nd Watt DE
2nd M.Wilson MLB
3rd Stocker TE
6th JHarper RB
7th CMarsh CB

Add just a few FAs like Dawan Landry or Roman Harper at Safety, and James Anderson at SAM, and the defense has been totally revamped in one offseason. I say build with the draft and start doing it consistently, but also this year specifically, build just a little through FA, cause DEN needs some players with leadership and ability to make the defense legit.

so you would just draft a D-lineman to draft a d-lineman in 2nd and 3rd round? Even if there is a better player at another position? Never draft for need unless need is best available. Draft for need you get a Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder.

[cuzz4169]

I don't like "speed" defenses. They get run all over. See: Indianapolis Colts.

On a side note, I hope no one fools themselves into thinking Joe Mays is a starter in this league.

Colts are different its not that they are just about speed, its their philosophy pressure pressure pressure....leaves holes in the running game.

[spikerman]

I agree with Staples. I would like to see more speed, but I would hate to see the kinds of defenses that allowed the Broncos to get run over in previous years; see Dillon, Corey and Smith, Timmy. Fast is fine, but you'd better have some beef to clog the middle along with linebackers who want to "lay the wood", but are good tacklers too.

I would like to see Larsen get another shot. The book on him is that he's too slow, but in the few opportunities he was given he seemed to do pretty well.

[topscribe]

no way hunter is that fast lol I watched him get an int and run looked like he was in slow motion lol.

If we don't find a MLB I wouldn't mind seeing DJ stay at MLB and Woodyard at WLB.

You talking about that pick 6? Looked fast enough to me.

According to CoachScout (http://www.couchscout.com/dnvr.htm), Hunter runs a 4.63. Maybe he's not that fast, I don't
know, but he's not slow . . . at least far as I've observed . . .

-----

[I Eat Staples]

He should be kept for depth. Hes a solid MLB in a 4-3 defense. And if DEN drafts a young MLB, Mays could hold down the fort for a while until the rook is ready.

Mays is a much better fit at Mike in a 3-4. He's a decent run stuffer, not much else. a MLB in a 4-3 has to be much more versatile with better coverage skills.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Moch out of UNR would be a good pickup to improve our speed at lb. others have said that, but I don't picture him being within the first 2 rounds.

Broncos need another OLB like another QB.... not...

Now if you want to take Houston and move him inside, ok but he doesn't have that much speed... and some have him projected too high...

[dogfish]

Moch out of UNR would be a good pickup to improve our speed at lb. others have said that, but I don't picture him being within the first 2 rounds.

he's an interesting prospect-- he's expected to blow up the 40. . . his stock will probably get inflated if he does. . .

i don't know that much about him, but i kinda wonder if he won't fit best as a 34 OLB where he can really use his speed off the edge. . . he might fit at WILL, but we already have two solid players there, and basically none at the other two 'backer spots. . .

[topscribe]

Mays is a much better fit at Mike in a 3-4. He's a decent run stuffer, not much else. a MLB in a 4-3 has to be much more versatile with better coverage skills.

Has Mays played much coverage? I never noticed that. Personally, I really need
to see him in coverage before I come to a definitive conclusion . . .

-----

[cuzz4169]

You talking about that pick 6? Looked fast enough to me.

According to CoachScout (http://www.couchscout.com/dnvr.htm), Hunter runs a 4.63. Maybe he's not that fast, I don't
know, but he's not slow . . . at least far as I've observed . . .

-----

I didn't think he looked fast at all...let me watch again lol

[WARHORSE]

Well, that criteria would certainly eliminate most of the players in this draft :lol:

Let's see that would put the best values as:

ILB:
1) Wilson (assuming he clears medical for his neck)
2a) Carter (a reach at 2nd or 3rd round considering he just had his knee rebuilt in Dec)
2b) Sheppard (good value in 3rd or 4th)
3) Sturdivant (needs some work, hammy & weed issues)

DT:
1) Fairley
2) Dareus
3) Paea
4) Austin

SS:
McDaniel

FS:
1) Moore
2) Carter
3) Williams
4) Sands

Anybody else would depend on combine results (and those above being validated by combine numbers).

Based on size/speed, best values would be:

2) Fairley or Dareus
36) Wilson, Paea or Austin
46) McDaniel or Moore, Carter
67) Sheppard or Williams, Sands

Not sure I'd want Fairley & Austin in the same lockerroom though...

They might kill each other, or worse, become friends and kill other people at niteclubs... :confused:


Better add Quinn to that Fairley/Dareus combo. Quinn not only has speed, size and height, he has a nonstop motor.

I'll take him or Fairley at 2.

[topscribe]

I didn't think he looked fast at all...let me watch again lol

Check this out:

UEjJOqGHAa8

-----

[SpringsBroncoFan]

Better add Quinn to that Fairley/Dareus combo. Quinn not only has speed, size and height, he has a nonstop motor.

I'll take him or Fairley at 2.

Yeah, from what people are saying about him now I wouldn't be surprised if that happens once the combine is over...

Too bad the guy didn't play last year...

Drafting Quinn & Austin would probably create a bit of a buzz... :lol:

[Shananahan]

Has Mays played much coverage? I never noticed that. Personally, I really need
to see him in coverage before I come to a definitive conclusion . . .
One of the main reasons he wasn't wanted in Philly anymore was supposedly his weakness in coverage. They more or less let him go for nothing.

[cuzz4169]

Check this out:

UEjJOqGHAa8

-----

He had a little speed but all 4 of those guys running didn't look that fast.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=25441&draftyear=2006&genpos=DE
on here it says he ran a 4.54 but that was at 232lbs he's listed at 271 now. I bet he's between 4.7-4.8 speed now
but he's really a DE not an OLB so his speed is fine.

[topscribe]

He had a little speed but all 4 of those guys running didn't look that fast.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=25441&draftyear=2006&genpos=DE
on here it says he ran a 4.54 but that was at 232lbs he's listed at 271 now. I bet he's between 4.7-4.8 speed now
but he's really a DE not an OLB so his speed is fine.

Actually, Hunter did fairly well at OLB in the 3-4. If he lost 20 lbs., he would
still be big for Sam, and he might get some of his speed back. We have to
remember that he was learning a brand new position this last year, so we need
not to expect stardom out of him under those conditions. He just might make
a decent Sam?

-----

[dogfish]

Actually, Hunter did fairly well at OLB in the 3-4. If he lost 20 lbs., he would
still be big for Sam, and he might get some of his speed back. We have to
remember that he was learning a brand new position this last year, so we need
not to expect stardom out of him under those conditions. He just might make
a decent Sam?

-----

if he's here next year, it would seemingly make more sense to just let him play his natural position (defensive end) instead of pounding a square peg into a round hole. . .

[bcbronc]

Actually, Hunter did fairly well at OLB in the 3-4. If he lost 20 lbs., he would
still be big for Sam, and he might get some of his speed back. We have to
remember that he was learning a brand new position this last year, so we need
not to expect stardom out of him under those conditions. He just might make
a decent Sam?

-----

I liked Hunter at OLB in the 34. imo he'd be better off staying there. Going from DE to Sam is a pretty big transition. maybe we can get a 5th or 6th for him from a 34 team.

[SOCALORADO.]

so you would just draft a D-lineman to draft a d-lineman in 2nd and 3rd round? Even if there is a better player at another position? Never draft for need unless need is best available. Draft for need you get a Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder.


No, draft for need you get a Suh. Draft with a coach and FO that doesnt know how to draft, and you get a Moss, or you reach for some safety that would have gone in the 5th round anyways. Like Robert Sands.
DEN NEEDS to draft DT's and DE's in the top 2 rounds because almost all of the players coming out at those positions are NFL, starting calibur players, and this just so happens to be a deep draft at 4-3 DT and DE.
Please find me an analyst or a poster here who says differently.
Oh and DEN just so happens to absolutely suck balls at those positions.
Your implying that the DTs and DEs players in the 2nd or 3rd are all going to be busts, when you have no idea if thats true, nor could you know.
The safeties in the 2nd or 3rd could be just as big busts.
As a matter of fact many of the highest rated safeties in this draft are the players considered to be possible "busts"!


Rahim Moore, FS, UCLA
Height: 6-1. Weight: 197.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2011): Top 40 Pick.
10/9/10: Moore has not impressed me this year. I know he has talent, but the bottom line is he is not producing and has been burned several times. He needs to step up.
DeAndre McDaniel, S, Clemson
Height: 6-0. Weight: 213.
Projected 40 Time: 4.43.
Projected Round (2011): 3-4.
10/9/10: McDaniel hasn't played like a first-round pick. He showed terrible awareness giving up a couple touchdowns to Miami last week, and I'm really down on him this season. Disappointing.
Ahmad Black, S, Florida
Height: 5-9. Weight: 183.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2011): 3-4.
10/9/10: Black is a strong safety only at the next level, and his size hurts his 2011 NFL Draft stock. 5/14/10: An All-SEC honorable mention, the compact Ahmad Black collected 70 tackles and five passes broken up last year.
Robert Sands, S, West Virginia
Height: 6-5. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.62.
Projected Round (2011): 3-5.
8/12/10: Robert Sands' eight pass break-ups and five interceptions were impressive, but he may be a liability in coverage at the next level. This guy has horrible footwork and he cant get his hips turned in coverage.
Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina
Height: 6-2. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.45.
Projected Round (2011): 3-5.
10/9/10: Williams is done with his suspension and debuts this week against Clemson.

Moore is a top 40 pick, cause hes supposedly a "ballhawk", only he has absolutely sucked this year.
McDaniel dropped off the face of the earth. Has blown all year. Plays like his last name.
Black is a liability in coverage and Sands is even worse.
And why was Williams suspended!?!?

Safety is the actual position of reach this year.
None of these players should go any higher than the 3rd round at best.
But like you said, some team will reach and draft one waay too high.
Hopefully its not DEN.

[SOCALORADO.]

Heres the top DTs in this draft projected to go in the 1st couple rounds.

Nick Fairley, DE/DT, Auburn
Height: 6-4. Weight: 299.
Projected 40 Time: 4.95.
Combine 40 Time: .
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2011): Top 3 Pick.

Fairley has really stepped up his game this season. He's been very active around the ball and doing a great job of shooting gaps and getting penetration. We love his quickness and athleticism, but he could do a better job with his hands and getting off blocks. Hopefully he continues to improve as the year goes on.


Marcell Dareus, DE/DT, Alabama
Height: 6-3. Weight: 306.
Projected 40 Time: 4.90.
Combine 40 Time: .
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2011): Top 10 Pick.
Dareus has been a beast this year for Alabama. His power, strength, tenacity and athleticism are all prototypical to play 5-technique in the NFL. Because of his versatility, you can lock him into the top five picks.

Marcell Dareus can play for any defense, but is better suited for the 3-4. As a mere sophomore, Dareus notched 6.5 sacks in only four starts (Nick Saban habitually doesn't play his young guys over his veterans). Dareus will start in 2010 and is expected to reach double-digit sacks.


Corey Liuget, DE/DT, Illinois
Height: 6-3. Weight: 300.
Projected 40 Time: 5.10.
Combine 40 Time: .
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2011): Top 25 Pick.
Collected eight TFL and 2.5 sacks in 2009.
Strengths:
Quick off snap
Strong against the run
Able to bull rush with power
Athletic and laterally mobile
Very versatile
Good initial punch
Weaknesses:
Does not possess closing speed
Needs to develop pass rushing moves
Still working on stamina and conditioning
Not much experience



Muhammed Wilkerson, DE/DT, Temple
Height: 6-5. Weight: 301.
Projected 40 Time: 5.12.
Combine 40 Time: .
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2011): Top 30 Pick.
Wilkerson seems to have come into his own this season, consistently getting into backfields and setting the tone on the defensive line for Temple. Sometimes he gets too high and gets washed, but he can still improve as the year goes on and rise up boards.


Phil Taylor, NT/DT, Baylor
Height: 6-4. Weight: 337.
Projected 40 Time: 5.35.
Combine 40 Time: .
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2011): 1-2.
Phil Taylor dominated the North team's supposed elite offensive line, beating double teams and wreaking havoc on the North's quarterbacks. The NFL Network guys remarked that 335-pound players aren't supposed to have Taylor's moves. Taylor could sneak into the bottom of the first round.
Phil Taylor is a monster and might be moving into late first-round consideration. He dominated every matchup in the one-on-one drills. It was amazing how easily he pushed around an overmatched Demarcus Love.
Like Terrence Cody, Phil Taylor's weight will need to be monitored. The prospect of adding a 355-pound nose tackle sounds nice until he shows up to training camp at 390.


Drake Nevis, DT, LSU
Height: 6-1. Weight: 287.
Projected 40 Time: 4.92.
Combine 40 Time: .
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2011): 2.
On tape, I love Nevis as a prospect. He's disruptive, competitive and quick, and always seems to be around the ball. The problem is his size is a huge issue at the next level and he looks like nothing more than a rotational lineman.
Had an impressive junior season, collecting 11 TFL and four sacks.


Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State
Height: 6-1. Weight: 295.
Projected 40 Time: 5.05.
Combine 40 Time: .
Pro Day 40 Time: .
Benchx225: . Vertical: .
Projected Round (2011): 2.
Paea looks like one of the more overrated prospects in the 2011 NFL Draft, but I doubt he gets out of the second round. He has great weight room strength and is a load to deal with because of his competitiveness, but he lacks athleticism to make plays and he isn't much of a penetrator. When I watch tape, I see a 1-technique only - someone who lines up on the shoulder of the center and generally stuffs the run for a 4-3 defense.
Muscular build and wide frame
Very athletic and agile
Quick and effective initial punch
Great athlete, former rugby player
Solid bull rusher
Run stopper who holds his ground
Hustler with high motor
Scheme versatility, possible 3-4 nose


All of these players are projected to go by the 2nd. And thats just 4-3 DT.
Find me one glaring issue or weakness that would have them over-rated and not worthy of any higher than the 3rd round. I have yet to see 1 massive red flag issue with any of these players, and at 4-3 DE, its even more positive.

[Lonestar]

Great post socal Thanks for posting the info.
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[rcsodak]

Paea:"lacks athleticism to make plays"
"Very athletic"

And they wonder why busts happen. :coffee:
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[cuzz4169]

If its not a pro scouts evaluation of a player or an x-gm.....then that evaluation is no better then mine.

[cuzz4169]

Funny you believe all of the top DTs and DEs are all nfl starters. Sorry conversation is over for me.

[NightTerror218]

What do you guys think of Casey Mathews? He was involved in almost every play for Oregon and he has football in his blood like his brother. This is just what i like. Fairley purely dominant, Kerrigan if available in 2nd or else Paea, is big and fast dude. He was dominating in the Senior Bowl. Then our other needs would be safety (Dawkins might not return), OL for Ryan Harris, and TE is a weakspot. I think we can Deangelo Williams in FA for RB positions.

1-Fairley DT
2a-Kerrigan DE
2b-McDaniels S
3-Mathews ILB
6-Gilbert OL
7-Cameron TE

[topscribe]

if he's here next year, it would seemingly make more sense to just let him play his natural position (defensive end) instead of pounding a square peg into a round hole. . .


I liked Hunter at OLB in the 34. imo he'd be better off staying there. Going from DE to Sam is a pretty big transition. maybe we can get a 5th or 6th for him from a 34 team.

You both may well be right. Just throwing out ideas . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

[SOCALORADO.]

Funny you believe all of the top DTs and DEs are all nfl starters. Sorry conversation is over for me.

There never was a conversation. Just explanation.
Preventing a Lex-like rant down the road.
This site isnt turning into broncomania.

[I Eat Staples]

Check this out:

UEjJOqGHAa8

-----

He looked like he had decent speed there, but every time I watch him in coverage or coming around the edge he looks slower than...Robert Ayers.

[KCL]

He looked like he had decent speed there, but every time I watch him in coverage or coming around the edge he looks slower than...Robert Ayers.

He was faster than Cassel and the OL...:lol:

[cuzz4169]

He looked like he had decent speed there, but every time I watch him in coverage or coming around the edge he looks slower than...Robert Ayers.

Straight line speed different than agility.

[topscribe]

Straight line speed different than agility.

That's true. I mentioned Hunter because of his straight-line speed, but he may
not have enough agility for a 4-3 linebacker . . .

-----

[cuzz4169]

That's true. I mentioned Hunter because of his straight-line speed, but he may
not have enough agility for a 4-3 linebacker . . .

-----

Yea i think he's a DE in a 4-3 no doubt. which is ok bc we need depth. And in nickle and dime Ayers could slide down to pass rush tackle and someone else play DE Hunter or someone else.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

What do you guys think of Casey Mathews? He was involved in almost every play for Oregon and he has football in his blood like his brother. This is just what i like. Fairley purely dominant, Kerrigan if available in 2nd or else Paea, is big and fast dude. He was dominating in the Senior Bowl. Then our other needs would be safety (Dawkins might not return), OL for Ryan Harris, and TE is a weakspot. I think we can Deangelo Williams in FA for RB positions.

1-Fairley DT
2a-Kerrigan DE
2b-McDaniels S
3-Mathews ILB
6-Gilbert OL
7-Cameron TE

You must be looking at Espns' wacky ILB ranking page...

I think it was Mayock in the Senior Bowl who said "he isn't his cousin"

He's smallish & a bit slow and projected at about a 5th rounder from what I've seen... maybe he'll help himself in the combine.... Seems a bit one dimensional though...

I'd rather have:
1) Wilson 6'4 250, faster than Matthews w/ better cover skills (2 round proj)
2) Sheppard 6'2 250, faster w/ better cover skills (3-4 round proj)
3) McCarthy 6'1 235 faster w/better cover skills & explosion (3-4 round proj)

Even Studivant & Jones probably better, although for all of them I want to see combine numbers...

Fyi... I think Gilbert is gone by the 4th & I've begun to sour on McDaniels because it really is hard to justify him in the 2nd because of his lack of experience (he's a converted LB). DE's I want to see combine #'s first.

[NightTerror218]

You must be looking at Espns' wacky ILB ranking page...

I think it was Mayock in the Senior Bowl who said "he isn't his cousin"

He's smallish & a bit slow and projected at about a 5th rounder from what I've seen... maybe he'll help himself in the combine.... Seems a bit one dimensional though...

I'd rather have:
1) Wilson 6'4 250, faster than Matthews w/ better cover skills (2 round proj)
2) Sheppard 6'2 250, faster w/ better cover skills (3-4 round proj)
3) McCarthy 6'1 235 faster w/better cover skills & explosion (3-4 round proj)

Even Studivant & Jones probably better, although for all of them I want to see combine numbers...

Fyi... I think Gilbert is gone by the 4th & I've begun to sour on McDaniels because it really is hard to justify him in the 2nd because of his lack of experience (he's a converted LB). DE's I want to see combine #'s first.

On the Mathews thing...I am looking forward to Combine numbers. But Casey is Clays younger brother and their cousin in an OL somewhere. His stock went up after the Senior Bowl and his name is starting to get thrown around a lot. He may a bit small but they said something about Clay and he has wicked determination. The other LBs you mentioned are outside LB and i was looking for an ILB. I think that is still a weak spot for us.

[NightTerror218]

You must be looking at Espns' wacky ILB ranking page...

I think it was Mayock in the Senior Bowl who said "he isn't his cousin"

He's smallish & a bit slow and projected at about a 5th rounder from what I've seen... maybe he'll help himself in the combine.... Seems a bit one dimensional though...

I'd rather have:
1) Wilson 6'4 250, faster than Matthews w/ better cover skills (2 round proj)
2) Sheppard 6'2 250, faster w/ better cover skills (3-4 round proj)
3) McCarthy 6'1 235 faster w/better cover skills & explosion (3-4 round proj)

Even Studivant & Jones probably better, although for all of them I want to see combine numbers...

Fyi... I think Gilbert is gone by the 4th & I've begun to sour on McDaniels because it really is hard to justify him in the 2nd because of his lack of experience (he's a converted LB). DE's I want to see combine #'s first.

FYI..this is what NFL.com wrote about him

Casey Matthews, Oregon: The ultra-competitive linebacker produces in every facet of the game and is a disruptive force. He quickly diagnoses information after the snap and flows aggressively to the ball. He plays the game faster than his workouts would indicate because of his superior instincts. His real strength comes as a rusher, where Matthews perfectly times going up the middle and often runs freely to the quarterback on blitzes. In coverage, he plays with vision on the quarterback and anticipates throws in his area. He lacks the size (6-1, 232 pounds) to take on blockers squarely in the run game, but uses his agility and quickness to slip blocks in traffic. His hustle pursuing runners often results in tackles behind the line of scrimmage. If he puts together an impressive showing in Indianapolis, he could vault over the competition at the position.

[SpringsBroncoFan]

FYI..this is what NFL.com wrote about him

Casey Matthews, Oregon: The ultra-competitive linebacker produces in every facet of the game and is a disruptive force. He quickly diagnoses information after the snap and flows aggressively to the ball. He plays the game faster than his workouts would indicate because of his superior instincts. His real strength comes as a rusher, where Matthews perfectly times going up the middle and often runs freely to the quarterback on blitzes. In coverage, he plays with vision on the quarterback and anticipates throws in his area. He lacks the size (6-1, 232 pounds) to take on blockers squarely in the run game, but uses his agility and quickness to slip blocks in traffic. His hustle pursuing runners often results in tackles behind the line of scrimmage. If he puts together an impressive showing in Indianapolis, he could vault over the competition at the position.

Maybe Mayock didn't say it! :lol: Could have sworn somebody did on TV...

Mayock now has his ILB rankings as:

1) Wilson
2) McCarthy
3) Sturdivant
4) Matthews
5) Sheppard

How things change... :laugh:

[NightTerror218]

Maybe Mayock didn't say it! :lol: Could have sworn somebody did on TV...

Mayock now has his ILB rankings as:

1) Wilson
2) McCarthy
3) Sturdivant
4) Matthews
5) Sheppard

How things change... :laugh:

:laugh: yes how peoples lists keep changing....after the combine they will drastically change a lot....i kinda hope they keep Casey out of spot light so we can draft him as a sleep....that kid has a lot heart though, and you see that watching his films

[Krugan]

I look at our Defense and see 3 huge weaknesses.

Dline

MLB

Safety

those being in order of what I watch. Could easily flip MLB for Saftey.

Something to be said for having a that middle fielder pair that can cover and help out with the run.

Ask the steelers.

Late to the party, speaking what most know and dont care:)

[SpringsBroncoFan]

I look at our Defense and see 3 huge weaknesses.

Dline

MLB

Safety

those being in order of what I watch. Could easily flip MLB for Saftey.

Something to be said for having a that middle fielder pair that can cover and help out with the run.

Ask the steelers.

Late to the party, speaking what most know and dont care:)

I'm getting concerned about the safeties in this draft...

One guy I like (Carter) didn't get invited to the combine so odds are now against him going in the 1st 3 rounds. Moore doesn't use his size to his advantage. Black is undersized so you really have to wonder if any even go in the 2nd round.

MLB I'm happier about, still weak though... I'd say yes to Wilson or McCarthy in the 2nd. Maybe Sheppard or Sturdivant in the 3rd. Not sure about anyone else though.

DT draft is terrific even into the 3rd...

DE... ???... unlike others, I'm not sold on having a great value in the 2nd.

Combine results will help greatly.