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TXBRONC
02-20-2011, 09:33 AM
Broncos' Orton teeters on fine line of awkward
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 02/20/2011 01:00:00 AM MST
Updated: 02/20/2011 02:23:52 AM MST

Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton was the team's offensive captain last season. Orton also is the team's player union representative.

It's a pivotal position at a time when the NFL is engaged in a collective bargaining competition between players and management.

The twist: The day there's a labor settlement is the day Orton's days with the Broncos may be numbered. If the Broncos' new management team of John Elway, John Fox and Brian Xanders decide to go forward with second-year quarterback Tim Tebow, Orton may become trade bait.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17433569

It's an interesting little article.

broncofaninfla
02-20-2011, 10:38 AM
With the lack of class he showed at the end of the season when he was replaced by Tebow and Ortons limited skill set I say good riddance. Orton is at best a quality back up QB in this league. Hopefull Denver finds team dumb enough to trade a second round pick for him.

BORDERLINE
02-20-2011, 10:58 AM
For some funny reason Orton believes that McD is still in charge here.

Even before he got hurt Orton was stinkin it up and he believes he played great because of a bunch of empty passing yards?

Orton needs to look in the mirror and say, Damn I'm a pretty solid QB in the NFL. I can back-up any starting Q.B and do a good job and I can be playing for ten more years because of it. Somehow he forgot that John Skelton??? and the Cardinals tore him and the Broncos a new one. But, he's like you guys seen my passing yards

topscribe
02-20-2011, 11:53 AM
Yup, before he was hurt, Orton was stinking it up. Record-shattering pace in
production, 96.0 QBR, according to Elway playing at a Pro Bowl level -- on a
team with a last place running game and a last place defense. Yup, sounds
like a backup QB to me.

Oh, but he was 3-10, wasn't he? Now, let's don't bring up such little items as a
last place running game and last place defense.

Living in a fantasy world much?

BTW, let's all get together, take a break from our work with the Church Choir,
and judge Orton over his attitude at the end of the season? We're all so good . . .

-----

Juriga72
02-20-2011, 12:19 PM
Yup, before he was hurt, Orton was stinking it up. Record-shattering pace in
production, 96.0 QBR, according to Elway playing at a Pro Bowl level -- on a
team with a last place running game and a last place defense. Yup, sounds
like a backup QB to me.

Oh, but he was 3-10, wasn't he? Now, let's don't bring up such little items as a
last place running game and last place defense.

Living in a fantasy world much?

BTW, let's all get together, take a break from our work with the Church Choir,
and judge Orton over his attitude at the end of the season? We're all so good . . .

-----

Yup... his record shattering pace seemed to only happen when down 30 points....

He also was on record pace for BEFORE he was injured:
Worst starting QB 3rd down qb rating- 58.4
Worst 4th quarter close qb rating- 58.0
3rd and LESS than 2 yards to go- 54.4
3rd down between 3-7 yards to go- 45.8
Qb under pressure- 12.0

Also I found this too-

"Most games scoring 7 or LESS points in the first half" 8X

BroncoJoe
02-20-2011, 12:48 PM
yup, before he was hurt, orton was stinking it up. Record-shattering pace in
production, 96.0 qbr, according to elway playing at a pro bowl level -- on a
team with a last place running game and a last place defense. Yup, sounds
like a backup qb to me.

Oh, but he was 3-10, wasn't he? Now, let's don't bring up such little items as a
last place running game and last place defense.

living in a fantasy world much?

btw, let's all get together, take a break from our work with the church choir,
and judge orton over his attitude at the end of the season? We're all so good . . .

-----

lol

JaxBroncoGirl
02-20-2011, 02:13 PM
With the lack of class he showed at the end of the season when he was replaced by Tebow and Ortons limited skill set I say good riddance. Orton is at best a quality back up QB in this league. Hopefull Denver finds team dumb enough to trade a second round pick for him.

Hopefully for the NFL the owners and FO will make better decisions when recruiting players. Bad thing is, once you are labeled a trouble maker or bad apple, you tend to have a harder time finding a team that would like to work with you. With everything going on right now in the league, I would hope that Orton will step up his positive attitude game to a new level, be more professional and earn the respect of a team.

topscribe
02-20-2011, 02:17 PM
Hopefully for the NFL the owners and FO will make better decisions when recruiting players. Bad thing is, once you are labeled a trouble maker or bad apple, you tend to have a harder time finding a team that would like to work with you. With everything going on right now in the league, I would hope that Orton will step up his positive attitude game to a new level, be more professional and earn the respect of a team.

I have seen that only on boards such as this. I have seen absolutely nothing to
that effect from any of his coaches or teammates, all who don't care what we
think in that area, I am sure . . .

-----

Juriga72
02-20-2011, 02:30 PM
I have seen that only on boards such as this. I have seen absolutely nothing to
that effect from any of his coaches or teammates, all who don't care what we
think in that area, I am sure . . .

-----

I have seen his teammates score more points with my own eyes. I have seen his teammates play with a passion and fire I never saw with Kyle this year.

Of course....... I have seen Kyle get benched many times before too

BroncoStud
02-20-2011, 02:42 PM
LoL, another Orton thread. :beer:

topscribe
02-20-2011, 02:45 PM
lol

All I'm saying, Joe, is that the guy has never seemed to catch a break. He went
from playing on a high ankle sprain in 2008 to TWO high ankle sprains AND a
compound dislocation of his index finger in 2009 to a last-place running game
PLUS a last-place defense PLUS a porous O-line (earlier in the season) PLUS
shoulder and rib injuries in his last three games . . . and STILL he played at a
high level (except in the last two games when his ribs were injured on BOTH
sides).

I would really like to give him a halfway decent running game and defense and
see what he then could do, especially after the superior numbers he put up
without them. That’s all I ask. THEN I personally will make a final judgment . .

-----

BroncoStud
02-20-2011, 03:00 PM
All I'm saying, Joe, is that the guy has never seemed to catch a break. He went
from playing on a high ankle sprain in 2008 to TWO high ankle sprains AND a
compound dislocation of his index finger in 2009 to a last-place running game
PLUS a last-place defense PLUS a porous O-line (earlier in the season) PLUS
shoulder and rib injuries in his last three games . . . and STILL he played at a
high level (except in the last two games when his ribs were injured on BOTH
sides).

I would really like to give him a halfway decent running game and defense and
see what he then could do, especially after the superior numbers he put up
without them. That’s all I ask. THEN I personally will make a final judgment . .

-----

I hope he gets just that -- Somewhere else. I've seen enough of his hollow play and heartless presence to know that Kyle Orton is never going to be a leader and someone you can go to war with as a field general.

I hope he gets traded to a team that has the pieces in place and gets his chance. I'm very excited that Denver is going in a different direction because he hasn't shown anything in his career that leads me to believe he is ever going to be elite -- an elite backup, yes, but an elite starter, no way.

BORDERLINE
02-20-2011, 03:37 PM
I would really like to give him a halfway decent running game and defense and
see what he then could do, especially after the superior numbers he put up
without them. That’s all I ask. THEN I personally will make a final judgment . .

-----

then you will have Trent Dilfer....

he made no misakes wasn't great wasn't bad just did what he had to do and he got himself a RING.

Orton I doubt can win a ring on his arm and accuracy like A.Rodgers.

Juriga72
02-20-2011, 03:42 PM
All I'm saying, Joe, is that the guy has never seemed to catch a break. He went
from playing on a high ankle sprain in 2008 to TWO high ankle sprains AND a
compound dislocation of his index finger in 2009 to a last-place running game
PLUS a last-place defense PLUS a porous O-line (earlier in the season) PLUS
shoulder and rib injuries in his last three games . . . and STILL he played at a
high level (except in the last two games when his ribs were injured on BOTH
sides).

I would really like to give him a halfway decent running game and defense and
see what he then could do, especially after the superior numbers he put up
without them. That’s all I ask. THEN I personally will make a final judgment . .

-----
He had EVERYONE of those last year and went 8-8.

#7 Yards/game defense
#12 Scoring defense

#18 rushing ypa O
#14 rush att
#17 rushing 1st downs

"HOW can Kyle win when the defense gives up 30 pts a game???"

How come the only time Kyle has won, he had a great defense and a great run game behind him? Otherwise he's .500 or worse?

topscribe
02-20-2011, 03:45 PM
then you will have Trent Dilfer....

he made no misakes wasn't great wasn't bad just did what he had to do and he got himself a RING.

Orton I doubt can win a ring on his arm and accuracy like A.Rodgers.

Why do people keep comparing Orton to Dilfer? Did Dilfer ever lead the NFL in
passing yardage? Was Dilfer ever #1 in the league in plays more that 40 yards?
And now you think there is a knock on Orton's accuracy? How, then, did he
achieve a 63% completion rate and 96.0 QBR with no running game?

I just don't understand the reasoning of some of you . . .


*Give him a running game and defense, which he never had, and he won't be as good.* :doh:

-----

rcsodak
02-20-2011, 03:59 PM
With the lack of class he showed at the end of the season when he was replaced by Tebow and Ortons limited skill set I say good riddance. Orton is at best a quality back up QB in this league. Hopefull Denver finds team dumb enough to trade a second round pick for him.

"at best a quality back up QB"...WOW, really???? :laugh:

Funny, how the people in the LEAGUE think otherwise.

Funny how, before his injury, he was leading the league in passing.

Funny how, before his injury, he was being talked about as a possible MVP.

Dang good thing you and your fellow anti-Orton clan aren't in the FO of this or any other club.

:rolleyes:

BroncoStud
02-20-2011, 04:56 PM
Why do people keep comparing Orton to Dilfer? Did Dilfer ever lead the NFL in
passing yardage? Was Dilfer ever #1 in the league in plays more that 40 yards?
And now you think there is a knock on Orton's accuracy? How, then, did he
achieve a 63% completion rate and 96.0 QBR with no running game?

I just don't understand the reasoning of some of you . . .


*Give him a running game and defense, which he never had, and he won't be as good.* :doh:

-----

Dilfer never played in a high school spread offense either. It's sort of ironic that every time Orton has had a good running game his numbers have been completely mediocre or worse? The only reason he produced like he did was because of the system.

Hell, Tebow threw for 300+ in his 2nd start in that same system! :elefant:

BroncoStud
02-20-2011, 04:58 PM
"at best a quality back up QB"...WOW, really???? :laugh:

Funny, how the people in the LEAGUE think otherwise.

Funny how, before his injury, he was leading the league in passing.

Funny how, before his injury, he was being talked about as a possible MVP.

Dang good thing you and your fellow anti-Orton clan aren't in the FO of this or any other club.

:rolleyes:

Who else thinks otherwise? I don't hear of anyone lining up to acquire Kyle Orton? Was he even on Larry Fitzgerald's list of QBs he wanted to come to Arizona? I think Marc Bulger was actually ahead of him...

Orton is a backup, nothing more. He is Jon Kitna part 2, though Kitna was a lot more mobile than Orton at the same point.

JaxBroncoGirl
02-20-2011, 05:26 PM
[QUOTE=topscribe;1213921]I have seen that only on boards such as this. I have seen absolutely nothing to
that effect from any of his coaches or teammates, all who don't care what we
think in that area, I am sure . . .

You have forgotten his rotten attitude during the last 3 games of a year that was soo bad, he actually had the balls to say he was a good QB and should be the starter an elite QB. Yea, right regardless of Tim Tebow, Orton should be fired.

topscribe
02-20-2011, 05:29 PM
[QUOTE=topscribe;1213921]I have seen that only on boards such as this. I have seen absolutely nothing to
that effect from any of his coaches or teammates, all who don't care what we
think in that area, I am sure . . .

You have forgotten his rotten attitude during the last 3 games of a year that was soo bad, he actually had the balls to say he was a good QB and should be the starter an elite QB. Yea, right regardless of Tim Tebow, Orton should be fired.

That is an argument? Okay. :whoknows:

Your view of that is quite subjective. I know because I hold a different view . . .

-----

TXBRONC
02-20-2011, 05:40 PM
Well what I got out of the article didn't have anything to do with Orton's abilities. What I got out of it is that both Orton and the team are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Since Orton's "record setting pace" was thrown out there I might as well add my two cents. Yeah he was record setting pace to throw for about 5,500 yard but that kind of project is absolutely useless, it means nothing unless you can keep up the pace which he didn't. Even if he ad kept it up he was also on pace to only throw 25 touchdown passes. 25 touchdown passes against 5,500 yards passing is anemic at best. All of the other quarterbacks that got into range that Orton were all on pace to throw for 30 or more touchdowns and in fact all of them hit 30 plus touchdowns or more.

topscribe
02-20-2011, 05:59 PM
That is the kind of reasoning one would use toward a sprinter with a twisted
knee. The sprinter lost the last race because he twisted his knee, therefore, he
didn't keep up the pace. It's silly, really.

Orton played the last two games with severely damaged ribs, to go along with
a still healing injured shoulder. Admittedly, he should not even have been in
those games.

But when his production suddenly fell off against KC, those with whom I was
watching it immediately knew something was wrong. (It's amazing that some
here still do not know that!)

Anyway, Kyle kept up the pace right up until his injuries. Against St. Louis, for
instance (some of us will remember when Orton was laid out after being blasted
in the ribs), Orton passed for 347 yards and 3 TDs . . . all three in the fourth
quarter. Looks to me as if he were keeping it up.

Moreover, until his injuries, before his final two games, Orton was indeed on a
pace to complete 30 TD passes. Do the math.

-----

GEM
02-20-2011, 06:13 PM
Here I come to save the day. Mighty top is on his way. :)

topscribe
02-20-2011, 06:22 PM
Here I come to save the day. Mighty top is on his way. :)

Yup. Bickering, clicking on the ads, having a barrel of fun . . . :D

-----

BroncoStud
02-20-2011, 07:16 PM
Funny how Orton wasn't on the injury report until the week of the Raiders game... Yet after another late season meltdown it's being tossed out as another excuse...

I guess he just isn't durable.

SpringsBroncoFan
02-20-2011, 07:32 PM
Here we go with Orton again!:lol:

Juriga72
02-20-2011, 07:41 PM
"at best a quality back up QB"...WOW, really???? :laugh:

Funny, how the people in the LEAGUE think otherwise.

Funny how, before his injury, he was leading the league in passing.

Funny how, before his injury, he was being talked about as a possible MVP.

Dang good thing you and your fellow anti-Orton clan aren't in the FO of this or any other club.

:rolleyes:
True.... after Tom Brady went out injured... Kyle was named as a replacemnt right?

Oh wait..... he wasn't..... Matt Cassel was....man


AFC
Offense
Reggie Wayne, Colts; Brandon Lloyd, Broncos; Dwayne Bowe, Chiefs; Wes Welker, New England; Joe Thomas Cleveland; D'Brickashaw Ferguson, New York Jets; Matt Light New England; Kris Dielman, San Diego; Logan Mankins, New England; Brian Waters Kansas City; Jeff Saturday, Indianapolis; Alex Mack, Cleveland; Marcedes Lewis, Jacksonville; Zach Miller, Oakland; Philip Rivers, San Diego; Peyton Manning, Indianapolis; Matt Cassel Kansas City; Arian Foster, Houston; Jamaal Charles, Kansas City; Chris Johnson, Tennessee; Vonta Leach, Houston.



But...but.... but "If peopel in the LEAGUE think otherwise"...wouldnt he be named?

right?

UnderArmour
02-20-2011, 08:05 PM
Why do so many posters here trash Orton? It's people think that in order to like Tebow and want Tebow to start next season, ever accomplishment Orton had last season amounts to nothing. Given the circumstances, Orton had one hell of a season. The guy had no running game and no defense and was single handedly giving us a chance. I like Tebow too and I hope we can trade off Orton, but that doesn't mean that everything Orton did should be immediately discounted.

topscribe
02-20-2011, 08:38 PM
Why do so many posters here trash Orton? It's people think that in order to like Tebow and want Tebow to start next season, ever accomplishment Orton had last season amounts to nothing. Given the circumstances, Orton had one hell of a season. The guy had no running game and no defense and was single handedly giving us a chance. I like Tebow too and I hope we can trade off Orton, but that doesn't mean that everything Orton did should be immediately discounted.

Probably the most rational post in the thread . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

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PAINTERDAVE
02-20-2011, 08:43 PM
Yeah.. I have avoided posting here...

I am excited about the new era Broncos and Tim Tebow at QB...


Dwelling on Orton,
quantifying his level of skill,
and what happened under McD ...
is just not a subject that gives me any happiness or enjoyment.

I wish him the best...
(thanks for your service, Kyle)

His final service to the team will be as the union steward and whatever we get in trade for him once they sign the deal.

Lonestar
02-20-2011, 08:44 PM
Why do so many posters here trash Orton? It's people think that in order to like Tebow and want Tebow to start next season, ever accomplishment Orton had last season amounts to nothing. Given the circumstances, Orton had one hell of a season. The guy had no running game and no defense and was single handedly giving us a chance. I like Tebow too and I hope we can trade off Orton, but that doesn't mean that everything Orton did should be immediately discounted.


Probably the most rational post in the thread . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

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amen brother

but then when did logical, become a prerequisite to posting here..

KCL
02-20-2011, 09:15 PM
True.... after Tom Brady went out injured... Kyle was named as a replacemnt right?

Oh wait..... he wasn't..... Matt Cassel was....man


AFC
Offense
Reggie Wayne, Colts; Brandon Lloyd, Broncos; Dwayne Bowe, Chiefs; Wes Welker, New England; Joe Thomas Cleveland; D'Brickashaw Ferguson, New York Jets; Matt Light New England; Kris Dielman, San Diego; Logan Mankins, New England; Brian Waters Kansas City; Jeff Saturday, Indianapolis; Alex Mack, Cleveland; Marcedes Lewis, Jacksonville; Zach Miller, Oakland; Philip Rivers, San Diego; Peyton Manning, Indianapolis; Matt Cassel Kansas City; Arian Foster, Houston; Jamaal Charles, Kansas City; Chris Johnson, Tennessee; Vonta Leach, Houston.



But...but.... but "If peopel in the LEAGUE think otherwise"...wouldnt he be named?

right?

You forgot Eric Berry....:D

I don't get all the Orton trashing...I really don't...I think he did what he could do considering all the injuries Denver had plus like someone stated...no running game and no defense to speak of...those are a huge part of the team also.

Someone mentioned trouble maker...IMO compared to some of the players in the league how can he be called a trouble maker..not gonna happen but I would love to see him be a backup to Cassel instead of Croyle...who is a terrible player..Orton is a hell of a lot better than him.

BroncoStud
02-20-2011, 10:25 PM
Why do so many posters here trash Orton? It's people think that in order to like Tebow and want Tebow to start next season, ever accomplishment Orton had last season amounts to nothing. Given the circumstances, Orton had one hell of a season. The guy had no running game and no defense and was single handedly giving us a chance. I like Tebow too and I hope we can trade off Orton, but that doesn't mean that everything Orton did should be immediately discounted.

I would rather have Jeff George than Kyle Orton playing QB for the Broncos, I greatly disliked trading Cutler and bringing him in 2 years ago, and I dislike it even more after watching 2 heartless seasons with him now.

I could care less if Tebow is involved, I just want somebody who plays with heart and has some athletic ability.

rcsodak
02-20-2011, 10:35 PM
Well what I got out of the article didn't have anything to do with Orton's abilities. What I got out of it is that both Orton and the team are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Since Orton's "record setting pace" was thrown out there I might as well add my two cents. Yeah he was record setting pace to throw for about 5,500 yard but that kind of project is absolutely useless, it means nothing unless you can keep up the pace which he didn't. Even if he ad kept it up he was also on pace to only throw 25 touchdown passes. 25 touchdown passes against 5,500 yards passing is anemic at best. All of the other quarterbacks that got into range that Orton were all on pace to throw for 30 or more touchdowns and in fact all of them hit 30 plus touchdowns or more.

Yea.....his numbers are alot like BM's 100+rcpts/1200+yds and 6TD's. 6TD's! Brandon Lloyd, who SOME posters here say is nowhere CLOSE to replacing BM, had MORE yards, in LESS catches, with MORE TD's(11). Aboration? Who? BM with his 2009 season or Lloyd and his 2010 season?
Hell, Bowe had 15TD's with only 70+catches.

So if ya'll are gonna start using his 'empty yards' argument, your "best receiver in Denver's history" is gonna get pulled in as well. ;)

rcsodak
02-20-2011, 10:41 PM
Why do so many posters here trash Orton? It's people think that in order to like Tebow and want Tebow to start next season, ever accomplishment Orton had last season amounts to nothing. Given the circumstances, Orton had one hell of a season. The guy had no running game and no defense and was single handedly giving us a chance. I like Tebow too and I hope we can trade off Orton, but that doesn't mean that everything Orton did should be immediately discounted.

Human nature, UA.

Blast your competition to increase your worth. Hides your inadequacies as well. :elefant:

rcsodak
02-20-2011, 10:46 PM
You forgot Eric Berry....:D

I don't get all the Orton trashing...I really don't...I think he did what he could do considering all the injuries Denver had plus like someone stated...no running game and no defense to speak of...those are a huge part of the team also.

Someone mentioned trouble maker...IMO compared to some of the players in the league how can he be called a trouble maker..not gonna happen but I would love to see him be a backup to Cassel instead of Croyle...who is a terrible player..Orton is a hell of a lot better than him.

Orton>Cassell :coffee:

BroncoStud
02-20-2011, 10:54 PM
Orton>Cassell :coffee:

Cassel = Pro Bowl, Orton = Benched

:coffee:

chazoe60
02-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Just the fact that a Chiefs fan is saying they would love to have Orton to back up Cassell because he's better than Croyle, should explain why most Bronco fans are not too excited about the prospects of another season with him under center.

rcsodak
02-20-2011, 11:01 PM
Just the fact that a Chiefs fan is saying they would love to have Orton to back up Cassell because he's better than Croyle, should explain why most Bronco fans are not too excited about the prospects of another season with him under center.

No. She's prolly just smart enough to realize that KC spent bookoo bucks on Cassell and they're not about to replace him with an outsider. All she said is Croyle sucks. That's not in dispute.

Nice reach, though. :lol:

BroncoStud
02-20-2011, 11:06 PM
No. She's prolly just smart enough to realize that KC spent bookoo bucks on Cassell and they're not about to replace him with an outsider. All she said is Croyle sucks. That's not in dispute.

Nice reach, though. :lol:

I'm pretty sure any respectable fan would want the best player at that position to play, so from KCL's standpoint I'm pretty sure she meant that Cassel is the better player and she would like Orton to back him up, for that, I agree. Cassel is better. Had McDumbass gotten his way in the first place Cassel would be starting in Denver right now and Orton would be a backup somewhere, maybe to Cutler.

Ravage!!!
02-21-2011, 12:58 AM
I'm pretty sure any respectable fan would want the best player at that position to play, so from KCL's standpoint I'm pretty sure she meant that Cassel is the better player and she would like Orton to back him up, for that, I agree. Cassel is better. Had McDumbass gotten his way in the first place Cassel would be starting in Denver right now and Orton would be a backup somewhere, maybe to Cutler.

It absolutely SICKENS me to think that Cassel could have been the starter in Denver. He's not good. I think Orton is better than Cassel, and you know my feelings on Orton's ability to lead.

PAINTERDAVE
02-21-2011, 01:38 AM
Human nature, UA.

Blast your competition to increase your worth. Hides your inadequacies as well. :elefant:

RC... the same thing happened HUGE,
as Orton failed to lead the team to wins...
and those of us who rallied around starting the rookie to get him some experience...
many Orton backers trashed Tebow (and us) in order to make the case for Kyle's continued starts.

Week after week... it was over the top...
the worse Orton played...
the more some people trashed Tebow and the idea that he should play.

The human nature you cite goes both ways, my friend.

I wish Kyle the best.
I also cringe at the thought of him ever starting for us again...
based upon his lack of leadership skils and ability to rally the team.


I have no idea if Tebow will ever be great...
but I expect him to give us a great effort,
and his leadership skills are un-rivaled.

Excited about the Fox led New Era 2011 Broncos!
Yee Haw.

KCL
02-21-2011, 01:57 AM
My post wasn't about Cassel...it was about KO.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 02:01 AM
RC... the same thing happened HUGE,
as Orton failed to lead the team to wins...
and those of us who rallied around starting the rookie to get him some experience...
many Orton backers trashed Tebow (and us) in order to make the case for Kyle's continued starts.

Week after week... it was over the top...
the worse Orton played...
the more some people trashed Tebow and the idea that he should play.

The human nature you cite goes both ways, my friend.

I wish Kyle the best.
I also cringe at the thought of him ever starting for us again...
based upon his lack of leadership skils and ability to rally the team.


I have no idea if Tebow will ever be great...
but I expect him to give us a great effort,
and his leadership skills are un-rivaled.

Excited about the Fox led New Era 2011 Broncos!
Yee Haw.

I'm surely glad they didn't give up on Elway when he failed to lead his team
to wins during his 5-11 season in 1990. Since that happened to one of the
game's finest in history, there must be more to it than just the quarterback . . .

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PAINTERDAVE
02-21-2011, 02:14 AM
I'm surely glad they didn't give up on Elway when he failed to lead his team
to wins during his 5-11 season in 1990. Since that happened to one of the
game's finest in history, there must be more to it than just the quarterback . . .

-----

Exactly why we need to see what Tebow has got....
let's don't give up on him before he even gets a chance.


Orton has had 4 years (CHI and DEN) to show what he has...
we've seen it...
most of us don't want it...
and are looking forward to the future now.

Great example of why we need to play Tebow, Top.! ;)
Thanks.

BroncoStud
02-21-2011, 02:18 AM
I'm surely glad they didn't give up on Elway when he failed to lead his team
to wins during his 5-11 season in 1990. Since that happened to one of the
game's finest in history, there must be more to it than just the quarterback . . .

-----

Or maybe Elway had already taken Denver to 3 Super Bowls... Ya, I'm glad they didn't give up on him either. :rolleyes:

Comparing Kyle Orton to John Elway is as absurd as comparing a firecracker to a Hydrogen bomb.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 02:43 AM
Exactly why we need to see what Tebow has got....
let's don't give up on him before he even gets a chance.


Orton has had 4 years (CHI and DEN) to show what he has...
we've seen it...
most of us don't want it...
and are looking forward to the future now.

Great example of why we need to play Tebow, Top.! ;)
Thanks.

You tell me at what point we have seen Orton under normal circumstances. Was
it in 2008? He played with a substandard O-line and receivers and with a high
ankle sprain the last half of that year. Oh, and the Bears were #30 in the
league in pass defense that year.

Was it 2009? He played the first few games with a compound dislocation to
his index (guiding) finger on his throwing hand, the first half of the season
still on that high ankle sprain, and the last half on two high ankle sprains.
Meanwhile, he was playing in a brand new system, for a new coach, with a
new supporting cast (who were also new to each other).

In 2010, Orton played behind a porous O-line with the last place running
game and the last place defense.

What we saw was that he made a good account of himself, improving each
year. And this last year, before he went down with his rib injuries, he was
on a record-shattering , Pro Bowl pace with a 96.0 QBR -- Elway's words.

Have we really seen what Orton has? I daresay not. But we just may see
it this year, if there is football, because I believe Orton is not only staying, but
he is starting. Both Elway and Fox apparently believe they have seen what
Tebow has: Both have said that Tebow is not yet a good QB. Moreover, Fox
likes a strong running game with a good game manager at QB. That does not
describe Tebow at this point.

You heard it here first. :coffee:

-----

BroncoStud
02-21-2011, 03:01 AM
Well then I hope there is no football in 2011 because I can't stomach another Kyle Orton start...

Anyway, I'm sure TOP has me on ignore but all he keeps doing is telling us how Orton has had it so badly and basically is admitting Orton can't stay healthy and last a 16 game season, that doesn't bode well for when the 18 game season comes...

Anyway, how about that Players Union, eh?

PAINTERDAVE
02-21-2011, 03:55 AM
You tell me at what point we have seen Orton under normal circumstances. Was
it in 2008? He played with a substandard O-line and receivers and with a high
ankle sprain the last half of that year. Oh, and the Bears were #30 in the
league in pass defense that year.

Was it 2009? He played the first few games with a compound dislocation to
his index (guiding) finger on his throwing hand, the first half of the season
still on that high ankle sprain, and the last half on two high ankle sprains.
Meanwhile, he was playing in a brand new system, for a new coach, with a
new supporting cast (who were also new to each other).

In 2010, Orton played behind a porous O-line with the last place running
game and the last place defense.

What we saw was that he made a good account of himself, improving each
year. And this last year, before he went down with his rib injuries, he was
on a record-shattering , Pro Bowl pace with a 96.0 QBR -- Elway's words.

Have we really seen what Orton has? I daresay not. But we just may see
it this year, if there is football, because I believe Orton is not only staying, but
he is starting. Both Elway and Fox apparently believe they have seen what
Tebow has: Both have said that Tebow is not yet a good QB. Moreover, Fox
likes a strong running game with a good game manager at QB. That does not
describe Tebow at this point.

You heard it here first. :coffee:

-----

I do not enjoy the argueing about it... what will be will be.
As far as I'm concerned the Orton/Tebow war is over.

I would submit that the one year contract dictates an Orton trade...
otherwise he is a FA and we get nothing when Kyle walks.
I see ZERO chance they are going to sign KYLE to a long term multi million dollar deal.
Additionaly... Tebow has as great an ability to manage a game for Fox as Orton.
Tim is ALREADY under contract... the fans want him..
and he has leadership skills and un discovered potential....
along with his impressive performance so far.

My argument is as valid as yours.

You think it isn't... well... we'll see.

But argueing about it for the rest of the off season is not what I plan to do.

I'd just as soon avoid the subject....

Juriga72
02-21-2011, 07:04 AM
Well then I hope there is no football in 2011 because I can't stomach another Kyle Orton start...

Anyway, I'm sure TOP has me on ignore but all he keeps doing is telling us how Orton has had it so badly and basically is admitting Orton can't stay healthy and last a 16 game season, that doesn't bode well for when the 18 game season comes...

Anyway, how about that Players Union, eh?

Kyle is as fragile as any qb in the history of the NFL.... Its kinda funny how he has not played one full year of rootball at any level since 2003....

YET...."Kyle is a warrior"!!!!!! He's also a loser, he's very good at losing as witnessed this year. Getting outplayed by a rookie with the very same teammates who gave up on him.

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 08:34 AM
RC... the same thing happened HUGE,
as Orton failed to lead the team to wins...
and those of us who rallied around starting the rookie to get him some experience...
many Orton backers trashed Tebow (and us) in order to make the case for Kyle's continued starts.

Week after week... it was over the top...
the worse Orton played...
the more some people trashed Tebow and the idea that he should play.

The human nature you cite goes both ways, my friend.

I wish Kyle the best.
I also cringe at the thought of him ever starting for us again...
based upon his lack of leadership skils and ability to rally the team.


I have no idea if Tebow will ever be great...
but I expect him to give us a great effort,
and his leadership skills are un-rivaled.

Excited about the Fox led New Era 2011 Broncos!
Yee Haw.

Dave, I guess I missed that, as most I witnessed was posters being tempered in their responses. Look, we already had the TebowManiacs from his 1st day. Then came the 'start TT game1' chants. I just think people wwre being overly cautious after all the hyper-hype that surrounded him, his abilities(unknown), mechanics(well documented), etc. But trashing him?
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HORSEPOWER 56
02-21-2011, 09:00 AM
Orton isn't going anywhere. This is the Denver Broncos. You know, the team that consistently fails to make good personnel decisions. We'll hold on to Orton because Fox, and more specifically - Elway, are scared of giving Tebow the reigns just yet. So, Orton will not be traded now, while he holds value, and will be brought to camp.

He'll most likely win the starting job because he can be confident, accurate, and not have to escape pressure when he's wearing an orange "no contact" jersey and not facing a real pass rush and the Broncos FO will feel justified by not trading him. By week 5 or 6 of the regular season, we'll be looking at another losing record, another anemic offense near the top of the league in sacks and near the bottom in 3rd down efficiency that can't score TDs in the redzone and Orton will finally get the hook for good. Without McDaniels' pass first, pass second, and pass third and only run 10 times a game offense, his Orton's stats will be extremely pedestrian and the fans will be restless. He'll spend the rest of the season on the bench moping around and telling the media he's "ready to go in, anytime" if we're losing and he'll say "I don't comment on other guys' play" when we win and he gets asked about Tebow. Then, everyone will wonder why we didn't trade him while we had the chance...

Should be another fun season... :rolleyes: :coffee:

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 09:05 AM
Orton isn't going anywhere. This is the Denver Broncos. You know, the team that consistently fails to make good personnel decisions. We'll hold on to Orton because Fox, and more specifically - Elway, are scared of giving Tebow the reigns just yet. So, Orton will not be traded now, while he holds value, and will be brought to camp.

He'll most likely win the starting job because he can be confident, accurate, and not have to escape pressure when he's wearing an orange "no contact" jersey and not facing a real pass rush. By week 5 or 6 of the regular season, we'll be looking at another losing record, another anemic offense near the top of the league in sacks and near the bottom in 3rd down efficiency that can't score TDs in the redzone and Orton will finally get the hook for good. Without McDaniels' pass first, pass second, and pass third and only run 10 times a game offense, his Orton's stats will be extremely pedestrian and the fans will be restless. He'll spend the rest of the season on the bench moping around and telling the media he's "ready to go in, anytime" if we're losing and he'll say "I don't comment on other guys' play" when we win and he gets asked about Tebow.

Should be another fun season... :rolleyes: :coffee:

Didn't somebody show denver near the top in redzone efficiency?
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Juriga72
02-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Didn't somebody show denver near the top in redzone efficiency?
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YES!!!! When Kyle throws a pick in inside our own 20 it leads directly to a td everytime.

so he has that going for him....

HORSEPOWER 56
02-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Didn't somebody show denver near the top in redzone efficiency?
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Shit, they could've been for all I know. We only averaged 2-3 drives into the red-zone per game last year so it's not like there was a lot of data to gather. Tebow also had a huge factor in that %, though. I can only think of one time the offense didn't score a TD when he was in the game (the INT he threw vs Houston).

I don't know what the stats for Orton were, but I do know I saw a lot more FG attempts from the offense this year than TDs.

TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 09:30 AM
Yea.....his numbers are alot like BM's 100+rcpts/1200+yds and 6TD's. 6TD's! Brandon Lloyd, who SOME posters here say is nowhere CLOSE to replacing BM, had MORE yards, in LESS catches, with MORE TD's(11). Aboration? Who? BM with his 2009 season or Lloyd and his 2010 season?
Hell, Bowe had 15TD's with only 70+catches.

So if ya'll are gonna start using his 'empty yards' argument, your "best receiver in Denver's history" is gonna get pulled in as well. ;)

Why are you running down Rod Smith? :confused: He is clearly the best receiver in Broncos history. ;)

TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 09:40 AM
Orton isn't going anywhere. This is the Denver Broncos. You know, the team that consistently fails to make good personnel decisions. We'll hold on to Orton because Fox, and more specifically - Elway, are scared of giving Tebow the reigns just yet. So, Orton will not be traded now, while he holds value, and will be brought to camp.

He'll most likely win the starting job because he can be confident, accurate, and not have to escape pressure when he's wearing an orange "no contact" jersey and not facing a real pass rush and the Broncos FO will feel justified by not trading him. By week 5 or 6 of the regular season, we'll be looking at another losing record, another anemic offense near the top of the league in sacks and near the bottom in 3rd down efficiency that can't score TDs in the redzone and Orton will finally get the hook for good. Without McDaniels' pass first, pass second, and pass third and only run 10 times a game offense, his Orton's stats will be extremely pedestrian and the fans will be restless. He'll spend the rest of the season on the bench moping around and telling the media he's "ready to go in, anytime" if we're losing and he'll say "I don't comment on other guys' play" when we win and he gets asked about Tebow. Then, everyone will wonder why we didn't trade him while we had the chance...

Should be another fun season... :rolleyes: :coffee:

Every teams makes bad personnel decisions from time to time. I don't think Elway is afraid of trading Orton the fact is they can't at this point and if the labor dispute gets drawn out all the way into August or September it might be near impossible to trade. I'll take Elway at his word that Tim needs a full camp so he can be prepared to start.

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 10:01 AM
Shit, they could've been for all I know. We only averaged 2-3 drives into the red-zone per game last year so it's not like there was a lot of data to gather. Tebow also had a huge factor in that %, though. I can only think of one time the offense didn't score a TD when he was in the game (the INT he threw vs Houston).

I don't know what the stats for Orton were, but I do know I saw a lot more FG attempts from the offense this year than TDs.

Actually there were 25 FG attempts....38 TD's (13rush/25pass).
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rcsodak
02-21-2011, 10:03 AM
Why are you running down Rod Smith? :confused: He is clearly the best receiver in Broncos history. ;)
Not according to Rav.
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topscribe
02-21-2011, 10:08 AM
I do not enjoy the argueing about it... what will be will be.
As far as I'm concerned the Orton/Tebow war is over.

I would submit that the one year contract dictates an Orton trade...
otherwise he is a FA and we get nothing when Kyle walks.
I see ZERO chance they are going to sign KYLE to a long term multi million dollar deal.
Additionaly... Tebow has as great an ability to manage a game for Fox as Orton.
Tim is ALREADY under contract... the fans want him..
and he has leadership skills and un discovered potential....
along with his impressive performance so far.

My argument is as valid as yours.

You think it isn't... well... we'll see.

But argueing about it for the rest of the off season is not what I plan to do.

I'd just as soon avoid the subject....

Yes, your argument is valid, my friend. I didn't say it wasn't. You gave your
opinion, and I gave mine. You may be right . . . mine is only an opinion, after
all. We'll see when the time comes. I will be happy either way because the
coaches will do what they believe will be the best way to win.

What most of the fans want is to win. If Orton is at QB, and the Broncos are
winning, they will be happy. If Tebow is at QB, and the Broncos are winning,
they will be happy. And so will I. And so will you.

That is all we want. We're Broncos fans. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 10:12 AM
Yes, your argument is valid, my friend. I didn't say it wasn't. You gave your
opinion, and I gave mine. You may be right . . . mine is only an opinion, after
all. We'll see when the time comes. I will be happy either way because the
coaches will do what they believe will be the best way to win.

What most of the fans want is to win. If Orton is a QB, and the Broncos are
winning, they will be happy. If Tebow is at QB, and the Broncos are winning,
they will be happy. And so will I. And so will you.

That is all we want. We're Broncos fans. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

No spooning, you two.
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vandammage13
02-21-2011, 10:16 AM
Between the 20's, down by 15+ points, with not enough time left to legitimately make a comeback, Orton might be the best QB in the league.

Anything outside of those parameters, and he's pedestrian at best. Why a guy who has been in the league 6 years with nary a playoff appearance gets so much support is beyond me. Just the fact that the year he didn't play a snap his team went to the Super Bowl shows me that he has had his opportunities and couldn't even earn a wild card berth when given a chance on a solid team. To me, that's not a string of bad luck (as some interpret it as), but rather it shows that he's just not very good.

TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 10:29 AM
I did track Orton's progress and he fell off the 5,000 yard pace long before game at Arrowhead and never was on pace to throw 30 or more touchdowns. He came close but he never got to 30. His high mark was 29 but after he hit that mark he immediately immediately started drifting back down into the mid 20s.

As far as his preformance against the Rams, well in the 4th quarter they were playing coverage until our last meaningful series of the game.

vandammage13
02-21-2011, 10:36 AM
I did track Orton's progress and he fell off the 5,000 yard pace long before game at Arrowhead and never was on pace to throw 30 or more touchdowns. He came close but he never got to 30. His high mark was 29 but after he hit that mark he immediately immediately started drifting back down into the mid 20s.

As far as his preformance against the Rams, well in the 4th quarter they were playing coverage until our last meaningful series of the game.

Don't let the facts get in the way....still after like 4 or 5 games he was on a record shattering pace...I mean heck, in that week 3 loss against Indy where we racked up 13 points, Kyle had 476 yards passing!

Imagine if he would have done that all 16 games...He would have thrown for 7,616 yards!!! Don't worry about weeks 6-14, he was hurt.

Northman
02-21-2011, 10:47 AM
Cassel = Pro Bowl, Orton = Benched

:coffee:


You forgot playoffs too.

Northman
02-21-2011, 10:49 AM
I'm surely glad they didn't give up on Elway when he failed to lead his team
to wins during his 5-11 season in 1990. Since that happened to one of the
game's finest in history, there must be more to it than just the quarterback . . .

-----

Unfortuantely a very weak arguement.

Elway had already been to 3 SB's and even lead his team to playoff games before that season. I mean, if we are talking about being "rational" here.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 10:55 AM
Unfortuantely a very weak arguement.

Elway had already been to 3 SB's and even lead his team to playoff games before that season. I mean, if we are talking about being "rational" here.

My point, exactly, but you apparently missed it. As I very clearly said, that
happened to one of the best the game has ever seen. So, as I clearly said,
there can very well be more reasons than just the QB. That was my point.
Very clearly.

Except, of course, for those who want insist on flying in the face of rationale . . .

-----

Northman
02-21-2011, 10:57 AM
My point, exactly, but you apparently missed it. As I very clearly said, that
happened to one of the best the game has ever seen. So, as I clearly said,
there can very well be more reasons than just the QB. That was my point.
Very clearly.

Except, of course, for those who want insist on flying in the face of rationale . . .

-----

So your point is that Orton has led and played in playoff games and SB's? :confused:

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 10:57 AM
You forgot playoffs too.
And you call Top's post weak. Classic.
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vandammage13
02-21-2011, 11:00 AM
My point, exactly, but you apparently missed it. As I very clearly said, that
happened to one of the best the game has ever seen. So, as I clearly said,
there can very well be more reasons than just the QB. That was my point.
Very clearly.

Except, of course, for those who want insist on flying in the face of rationale . . .

-----

But with no track record to fall back on, this is not a good defense for Orton. So apparently you are missing your own point.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 11:02 AM
So your point is that Orton has led and played in playoff games and SB's? :confused:

I'm sorry you could not comprehend my point. I made it on a very fundamental level. *shrugs*

-----

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 11:02 AM
Unfortuantely a very weak arguement.

Elway had already been to 3 SB's and even lead his team to playoff games before that season. I mean, if we are talking about being "rational" here.

I remember RGannon's co-host comparing Orton to him, and RG agreeing. Adding "but his arm is stronger than mine was" .
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Northman
02-21-2011, 11:02 AM
And you call Top's post weak. Classic.
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Yes, it was extremely weak. But dont be mad baby.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 11:04 AM
Yes, it was extremely weak. But dont be mad baby.

I don't know why you people insist on getting personal.

Do you really believe that enhances your argument or something?

-----

Northman
02-21-2011, 11:04 AM
I remember RGannon's co-host comparing Orton to him, and RG agreeing. Adding "but his arm is stronger than mine was" .
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Im sure Jeff George's arm strength was spectacular too. ;)

Northman
02-21-2011, 11:05 AM
I don't know why you people insist on getting personal.

Do you really believe that enhances your argument or something?

-----

I didnt say YOU were weak. I said your post/arguement was. Dont make it something its not.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 11:06 AM
I didnt say YOU were weak. I said your post/arguement was. Dont make it something its not.

I didn't say you had gotten personal with me. Yet.

-----

Northman
02-21-2011, 11:08 AM
I didn't say you had gotten personal with me. Yet.

-----

Well, you did quote my post so you were addressing me for some reason. :lol:

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 11:12 AM
Yes, it was extremely weak. But dont be mad baby.
At least you admit it. Lol . Mad? Nobody here has that ability. And I am not your" baby". I dont swing that way.
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vandammage13
02-21-2011, 11:12 AM
I didn't say you had gotten personal with me. Yet.

-----

Please...while you didn't specifically use his name or say "you," it might only take someone with reading comprehension abilities over the third grade level to see who that comment was directed to.

You would make a good politician, Top.

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 11:15 AM
Im sure Jeff George's arm strength was spectacular too. ;) As cutler can attest to. Anything more on the Subject matter? :coffee:
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Northman
02-21-2011, 11:21 AM
As cutler can attest to. Anything more on the Subject matter? :coffee:
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Yea, Cutler has been to a pro bowl and in the playoffs. :D:coffee:

BORDERLINE
02-21-2011, 11:25 AM
I find it funny how some of you still stick up for Orton.

Like if any NFL caliber Q.B can't win in the NFL with a decent defense and a running game.
We all seen Orton can throw bombs, We all seen Lloyd make circus catches.
We all seen Orton stand like a statue when defenders come rushing and he plays the role of an statue that won't move.

When we need three yards he can easily scramble for he doesn't instead it's an incomplete pass and a three and out. Orton is a very good back-up, he can step in any situation and do well (except under 2minutes). But he is far, far from a long term starting Q.B.

Ok so our o-line isn't as good what are we suppose to build a team around Orton????
Hell No!!!

Tebow can make a leaky O-Line work with his scrambling. Takes some pressure off of the O-Line to know there Q.B has legs and can move around. We seen Orton that's why i'm like c'mon people. His stats where big time inflated as well need proof go look at the Baltimore game where by haltime he was just chuckin deep balls hoping for a miracle empty yards that's all. i'm more impressed by Lloyd abilty to catch them.

TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 11:28 AM
Regardless of what anyone of us believes about Orton as far as ability and accomplishment the bottom line is the Broncos can't trade Orton unless/until a new CBA is in place and the longer the pissing contest goes on the less of a chance Orton gets traded imho.

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 11:37 AM
Please...while you didn't specifically use his name or say "you," it might only take someone with reading comprehension abilities over the third grade level to see who that comment was directed to.

You would make a good politician, Top.

Wow...did you ever murder that...... :lol:
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rcsodak
02-21-2011, 11:39 AM
Yea, Cutler has been to a pro bowl and in the playoffs. :D:coffee:
Can anybody read today?
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TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 11:45 AM
When we need three yards he can easily scramble for he doesn't instead it's an incomplete pass and a three and out. Orton is a very good back-up, he can step in any situation and do well (except under 2minutes). But he is far, far from a long term starting Q.B.

This been my basic point for most of the last two years. I just don't see Orton as long term solutioin.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 11:49 AM
Well, you did quote my post so you were addressing me for some reason. :lol:

I was actually addressing your remark to RC. But I think I was being a bit
hypersensitive about it. I already have three on Ignore because they
could not debate without getting personal, and I think that is where that is
coming from. Sorry. I shouldn't allow that to carry over to you.

But I still do not know why you could not get my point about Elway.

-----

PAINTERDAVE
02-21-2011, 11:51 AM
This been my basic point for most of the last two years. I just don't see Orton as long term solutioin.

AND...
if Tebow IS going to a be a solution..
we need to find out.

If Tim is NOT a solution.. we need to get a new QB sooner rather than later.

Using Kyle as a stopgap in 2011... does NOTHING to further the rebuild.

Absolutly NOTHING.

If Orton can not be traded before the draft.. no big deal.

The MOMENT the CBA is signed... Kyle needs to be/will be traded for 2012 draft picks...
or a stud lineman... or a pass catching TE...

The failed CBA talks is NOT a secret little ace in the hole for the Ortonites.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 11:54 AM
I find it funny how some of you still stick up for Orton.

Like if any NFL caliber Q.B can't win in the NFL with a decent defense and a running game.
We all seen Orton can throw bombs, We all seen Lloyd make circus catches.
We all seen Orton stand like a statue when defenders come rushing and he plays the role of an statue that won't move.

When we need three yards he can easily scramble for he doesn't instead it's an incomplete pass and a three and out. Orton is a very good back-up, he can step in any situation and do well (except under 2minutes). But he is far, far from a long term starting Q.B.

Ok so our o-line isn't as good what are we suppose to build a team around Orton????
Hell No!!!

Tebow can make a leaky O-Line work with his scrambling. Takes some pressure off of the O-Line to know there Q.B has legs and can move around. We seen Orton that's why i'm like c'mon people. His stats where big time inflated as well need proof go look at the Baltimore game where by haltime he was just chuckin deep balls hoping for a miracle empty yards that's all. i'm more impressed by Lloyd abilty to catch them.

Well, when I see your arguments, which are quite lame since all you seem to
do is try to go on your own authority, versus mine, which is backed by facts
and figures, I find it amazing, only the other way around.

So laugh away. Everyone needs a good laugh now and then, regardless of
how silly it is, what they are laughing at . . .

-----

Juriga72
02-21-2011, 11:55 AM
As soon as he is traded, Kyle Orton being on his third team in four years speaks volumes as to his "Ability"

topscribe
02-21-2011, 12:01 PM
I did track Orton's progress and he fell off the 5,000 yard pace long before game at Arrowhead and never was on pace to throw 30 or more touchdowns. He came close but he never got to 30. His high mark was 29 but after he hit that mark he immediately immediately started drifting back down into the mid 20s.

As far as his preformance against the Rams, well in the 4th quarter they were playing coverage until our last meaningful series of the game.

Okay. So through 11 games, up until his last two, Orton was on a pace to throw
for precisely 4,902 yards and precisely 29 TDs.

Sorry . . . I guess those are pretty anemic figures . . . :coffee:



Oh yes, BTW, his totals for the last three of those 11 games were 296, 217,
and 347. He completed 62%, for 8 TDs, 1 INT, and a QBR of 105.3. Really fell
off, didn't he?

As for Orton's performance against the Rams, are you telling me the Rams just
sat down and watched Orton play?

-----

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 12:08 PM
Favre:
2007 GB
2008 NYJ
2009 MINN

:coffee:
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PAINTERDAVE
02-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Favre:
2007 GB
2008 NYJ
2009 MINN

:coffee:
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RC... you are not seriously comparing Orton to Favre? :confused:

PAINTERDAVE
02-21-2011, 12:19 PM
"Kyle Orton is tearing this board apart!" :laugh:

topscribe
02-21-2011, 12:24 PM
"Tim Tebow is tearing this board apart!" :laugh:

See how that works? http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/wink-2.gif


But I really hope not, Painter. I don't base my relationships on preferences for
given football players. You and I, for instance, are buds from way back, and I
think it is actually a good thing we're opposed on the QB issue. We have an
opportunity to set an example on how to disagree. Right? http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 12:25 PM
Okay. So through 11 games, up until his last two, Orton was on a pace to throw
for precisely 4,902 yards and precisely 29 TDs.

Sorry . . . I guess those are pretty anemic figures . . . :coffee:



Oh yes, BTW, his totals for the last three of those 11 games were 296, 217,
and 347. He completed 62%, for 8 TDs, 1 INT, and a QBR of 105.3. Really fell
off, didn't he?

As for Orton's performance against the Rams, are you telling me the Rams just
sat down and watched Orton play?

-----

It sure is. The other two guys that threw for threw for 4,800 yards plus also had 49 and 50 touchdowns respectively. So yes the touchdowns were anemic in contrast to the yards that Orton was putting.

Ah no the last three games that Orton played he had 3 touchdowns and 3 interceptions You would have look at his last five game to come with 8 touchdowns that's less than two per game. Also our record over that stretch 1-4 with Orton at the helm.

Have you never heard of defenses playing soft when there teams have a big lead?

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 12:27 PM
RC... you are not seriously comparing Orton to Favre? :confused:
Geee Dave. Did those words appear ANYWHERE in my post? Or are you reaching, in your continued attempt to belittle everything Orton? Don't use the knockdown-to-buildup mantra, dave. You don't need to, ya big galoot.
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vandammage13
02-21-2011, 12:29 PM
Favre:
2007 GB
2008 NYJ
2009 MINN

:coffee:
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Favre: 57 years old

Orton: 28 years old

I don't think a viable QB changes teams that many times while he is in his prime.

In Favre's case, he was old and the Pack were ready to move on with Rodgers. They would never have let him go to Minn, which is where Favre wanted to go all along, so they traded him to the NYJ and never thought he would still wind up at Minn later.

In Orton's case, he has been benched more times in his career than he has won games in his last 20+ starts. Orton will be on his 3rd team in three years because he's not very good. There's really no reason beyond that. He has been given a chance with 2 organizations and will probably be given a chance by a 3rd. He has done nothing with those opportunities thus far in his career. It amazes me that there are organizations out there who will continue to give this retread, middle of the pack QB chances...Imagine if someone like Doug Flutie were given the same opportunity as this guy. I would bet he would have more than 0 playoff appearances to show for it.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 12:31 PM
It sure is. The other two guys that threw for threw for 4,800 yards plus also had 49 and 50 touchdowns respectively. So yes the touchdowns were anemic in contrast to the yards that Orton was putting.

Ah no the last three games that Orton played he had 3 touchdowns and 3 interceptions.

Have you never heard of defenses playing soft when they have big lead?

See, you are still taking into account Orton's last two games, when he was
playing with severely injured ribs on both sides. I have been over that.

Notice I said the last three of Orton's first 11 games, when he was relatively
healthy. You missed that, didn't you? Here are the figures:

KC: 296 yds., 4 TDs, 0 INTs
SDG: 217 yds., 1 TD, 1 INT
SL: 347 yds., 3 TDs, 0 INTs

-----

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 12:32 PM
It sure is. The other two guys that threw for threw for 4,800 yards plus also had 49 and 50 touchdowns respectively. So yes the touchdowns were anemic in contrast to the yards that Orton was putting.

Ah no the last three games that Orton played he had 3 touchdowns and 3 interceptions You would have look at his last five game to come with 8 touchdowns that's less than two per game. Also our record over that stretch 1-4 with Orton at the helm.

Have you never heard of defenses playing soft when there teams have a big lead?
Tx, did you just throw BM and all of his accomplishments under the bus? Again! Lol
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TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 12:36 PM
See, you are still taking into account Orton's last two games, when he was
playing with severely injured ribs on both sides. I have been over that.

Notice I said the last three of Orton's first 11 games, when he was relatively
healthy. You missed that, didn't you? Here are the figures:

KC: 296 yds., 4 TDs, 0 INTs
SDG: 216 yds., 1 TD, 1 INT
SL: 347 yds., 3 TDs, 0 INTs

-----

Good grief all that is cherry picking.

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 12:37 PM
Favre: 57 years old

Orton: 28 years old

I don't think a viable QB changes teams that many times while he is in his prime.

In Favre's case, he was old and the Pack were ready to move on with Rodgers. They would never have let him go to Minn, which is where Favre wanted to go all along, so they traded him to the NYJ and never thought he would still wind up at Minn later.

In Orton's case, he has been benched more times in his career than he has won games in his last 20+ starts. Orton will be on his 3rd team in three years because he's not very good. There's really no reason beyond that. He has been given a chance with 2 organizations and will probably be given a chance by a 3rd. He has done nothing with those opportunities thus far in his career. It amazes me that there are organizations out there who will continue to give this retread, middle of the pack QB chances...Imagine if someone like Doug Flutie were given the same opportunity as this guy. I would bet he would have more than 0 playoff appearances to show for it.

Exaggerate much?
And since you're so well versed in Ortons playing history, maybe you can inform us how many times he was truly benched (sucked) and how many times he was sat from injury.
TIA
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TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 12:41 PM
Tx, did you just throw BM and all of his accomplishments under the bus? Again! Lol
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What does Marshall have to do with thread? If all you do try to bait people into fight your posts useless to me.

PAINTERDAVE
02-21-2011, 12:41 PM
Geee Dave. Did those words appear ANYWHERE in my post? Or are you reaching, in your continued attempt to belittle everything Orton? Don't use the knockdown-to-buildup mantra, dave. You don't need to, ya big galoot.
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Don't be disingenuous, my friend.
Your list of Favre 3 teams in three years is in direct response to the post above saying Orton's ability is exemplified by him being on 3 teams in the NFL (Once he is traded) in his short NFL career.

_______________________

Dude... I am not trying to do "anything to belittle Orton"...
he has done that all on his own.

Like I have said... these discussions really are like dredging up ancient history.

Tebow may be the future around here... Orton is undoubtedly the past.

The need for Elway to play the words games in order to maintain Kyle's tradeablity... is just that. A FO political game.

vandammage13
02-21-2011, 12:42 PM
See, you are still taking into account Orton's last two games, when he was
playing with severely injured ribs on both sides. I have been over that.

Notice I said the last three of Orton's first 11 games, when he was relatively
healthy. You missed that, didn't you? Here are the figures:

KC: 296 yds., 4 TDs, 0 INTs
SDG: 216 yds., 1 TD, 1 INT
SL: 347 yds., 3 TDs, 0 INTs

-----

I'll give you the KC game, as he actually played very well in that one.

As for SD, that game was a debacle from the start and he really didn't put up any yards until the 4th quarter with the game out of hand. The TD also came in the 4th when we were down 35-7.

Almost the same thing happened in the STL game. We were down 33-13 before Orton threw his first TD in the 4th quarter with the game out of hand.

So the stats look good at first glance on paper, until you look a little deeper and see how meaningless they really were.

PAINTERDAVE
02-21-2011, 12:42 PM
See how that works? http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/wink-2.gif


But I really hope not, Painter. I don't base my relationships on preferences for
given football players. You and I, for instance, are buds from way back, and I
think it is actually a good thing we're opposed on the QB issue. We have an
opportunity to set an example on how to disagree. Right? http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

I was joking, Top.

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 12:51 PM
What does Marshall have to do with thread? If all you do try to bait people into fight your posts useless to me.
"Your post makes no sense".
And now you're getting defensive and charging" baiting"? Really? When I brought up the exact same point last night and you laughed, replied and winked?
Why? Cuz ya'll are geting challenged?

Wow.
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topscribe
02-21-2011, 12:52 PM
Good grief all that is cherry picking.

Yes, your next comeback. I expected that.

You said Orton tailed off at the end of the season. I provided those figures to
show he did not tail off at the end of the season.

I understand you want to include the games in which Orton was severely injured
to the worst possible part of his body: his ribs -- on both sides -- just like my
example of judging a sprinter's speed from how he performed on a twisted knee.

But even when Orton was healthy -- those first 11 games -- he was playing
with the last-place running game and the last-place defense, as well as a
sieve of an O-line (especially earlier in the season). So things weren't all hunky-
dory for him, even when he was performing well.

But I know that doesn't make any difference to many of you . . .

-----

topscribe
02-21-2011, 12:54 PM
I was joking, Top.

We both were. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

Except for the part about being buds . . .

-----

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 01:03 PM
Don't be disingenuous, my friend.
Your list of Favre 3 teams in three years is in direct response to the post above saying Orton's ability is exemplified by him being on 3 teams in the NFL (Once he is traded) in his short NFL career.

_______________________

Dude... I am not trying to do "anything to belittle Orton"...
he has done that all on his own.

Like I have said... these discussions really are like dredging up ancient history.

Tebow may be the future around here... Orton is undoubtedly the past.

The need for Elway to play the words games in order to maintain Kyle's tradeablity... is just that. A FO political game.

I was making a point.
A team's decision(players worth) to not keep a player is determined by a hell of a lot more than how (long hes been on team)many teams he's been on. Economics. Record. HC. Coordinator. Position coach. Roster. Cap. Salary. Age. Owner. Fans.
Gannon was better than Elvis, but who played in the playoffs? Who left and took his next team to the SB?
If the game of football was so black n white, as some allude, everybody would be 0-0-16.
For your sake, dave, I sure hope KO ISN'T on the opening day roster. Sounds like your basket of eggs is about to overflow. :wink:
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Juriga72
02-21-2011, 01:28 PM
Kyle Orton game stats-
week 1- 3 sacks / 33 pass att
week 2 1 sack/35 pass att
week 3- 1 sack / 57 pass att
week 4 6 sacks/ 50 pass att
week 5-1 sack/38 pass att
week 6- 1 sack/ 34 pass att

not really under siege there Kyle.....13 sacks in 247 pass att ( 1 evry 19 pass attempts)

Jay Cutler- 2010
week 1-4 sack/35 pass att
week 2- 1 sack/29 att
week 3- 3 sack/ 27 att
week 4- 9 sacks/ 11 att
week- 6 6 sacks/ 39 att
week 7- 4 sacks/40 att

27 sacks in 181 pass att...........................1 sack every 6.7 pass att

Ok ...Ortonites tell me again "how Kyle was under seige at the begining of the year"

vandammage13
02-21-2011, 02:12 PM
Kyle Orton game stats-
week 1- 3 sacks / 33 pass att
week 2 1 sack/35 pass att
week 3- 1 sack / 57 pass att
week 4 6 sacks/ 50 pass att
week 5-1 sack/38 pass att
week 6- 1 sack/ 34 pass att

not really under siege there Kyle.....13 sacks in 247 pass att ( 1 evry 19 pass attempts)

Jay Cutler- 2010
week 1-4 sack/35 pass att
week 2- 1 sack/29 att
week 3- 3 sack/ 27 att
week 4- 9 sacks/ 11 att
week- 6 6 sacks/ 39 att
week 7- 4 sacks/40 att

27 sacks in 181 pass att...........................1 sack every 6.7 pass att

Ok ...Ortonites tell me again "how Kyle was under seige at the begining of the year"

I think Top has anyone who debunks his stance on Kyle with evidence on ignore (if that's who your post it directed to).

rcsodak
02-21-2011, 02:22 PM
Thought this thread was about Orton. Can't bring up Shanny when discussing McD, but ....oh, wait. I get it. My bad.
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Juriga72
02-21-2011, 03:31 PM
I think Top has anyone who debunks his stance on Kyle with evidence on ignore (if that's who your post it directed to).

Whats funny is that per NFL.com.....

The average ( lets say 15-20 MOST sacked QB's ) for this year-

15-Hassleback 29 sacks 444 att- 1 sack every 15.3 att
16-Freeman 28 sacks 474 pass att- 1 sack every 16.9 att
17-Sanchez 27 sacks 507 pass at- 1 sack every 18.7 att
18 Cassel 26 sacks 450 pass att- 1 sack every 17.3 att
18- Palmer 26 sacks 586 pass att-1 sack every 22.5 att
20 Anderson 25 sacks 327 pass att- 1 sack every 13.08 att

So Kyle had BETTER protection than even middle of the road o-lines, yet somehow his O-line sucked...hmmmmmmm

TXBRONC
02-21-2011, 03:43 PM
Yes, your next comeback. I expected that.

You said Orton tailed off at the end of the season. I provided those figures to
show he did not tail off at the end of the season.

I understand you want to include the games in which Orton was severely injured
to the worst possible part of his body: his ribs -- on both sides -- just like my
example of judging a sprinter's speed from how he performed on a twisted knee.

But even when Orton was healthy -- those first 11 games -- he was playing
with the last-place running game and the last-place defense, as well as a
sieve of an O-line (especially earlier in the season). So things weren't all hunky-
dory for him, even when he was performing well.

But I know that doesn't make any difference to many of you . . .

-----

Interesting when he came here from Chicago he was touted as winner, even though he had bad offensive line and bad defense. Now with Denver losing with him at the helm it's an acceptable, that seems inconsistent to me.

If was to damn injured play well then he shouldn't have been out there.

Finally there is no need for snarky comments.

bcbronc
02-21-2011, 03:57 PM
It absolutely SICKENS me to think that Cassel could have been the starter in Denver. He's not good. I think Orton is better than Cassel, and you know my feelings on Orton's ability to lead.

lol. Cassel won his division and made it to the playoffs. Sure, he didn't do it with the leagues worst offense, but he's still a much better QB than Orton or CHI's starter. When it comes to a certain other QB, the argument is "he made the playoffs", but when Cassel does it, he's not even as good as Orton. as long as you're consistent with your criteria, I guess.

and cue Cutler fan bois excuses in 5...4...3..



Kyle Orton game stats-
week 1- 3 sacks / 33 pass att
week 2 1 sack/35 pass att
week 3- 1 sack / 57 pass att
week 4 6 sacks/ 50 pass att
week 5-1 sack/38 pass att
week 6- 1 sack/ 34 pass att

not really under siege there Kyle.....13 sacks in 247 pass att ( 1 evry 19 pass attempts)

Jay Cutler- 2010
week 1-4 sack/35 pass att
week 2- 1 sack/29 att
week 3- 3 sack/ 27 att
week 4- 9 sacks/ 11 att
week- 6 6 sacks/ 39 att
week 7- 4 sacks/40 att

27 sacks in 181 pass att...........................1 sack every 6.7 pass att

Ok ...Ortonites tell me again "how Kyle was under seige at the begining of the year"

so because Cutler has the decision making ability of a lobotomized sheep, this someone reflects negatively on Orton?

Neither guy is all that good as a QB. the biggest difference imo, Orton way exceeds his physical ability, while Cutler...doesn't.

BroncoStud
02-21-2011, 04:03 PM
See, you are still taking into account Orton's last two games, when he was
playing with severely injured ribs on both sides. I have been over that.

Notice I said the last three of Orton's first 11 games, when he was relatively
healthy. You missed that, didn't you? Here are the figures:

KC: 296 yds., 4 TDs, 0 INTs
SDG: 217 yds., 1 TD, 1 INT
SL: 347 yds., 3 TDs, 0 INTs

-----

Let me say it again, for the reading impaired...

KYLE ORTON WAS NOT ON THE INJURY REPORT UNTIL WEEK 15.

KYLE ORTON WAS NOT ON THE INJURY REPORT UNTIL WEEK 15.

KYLE ORTON WAS NOT ON THE INJURY REPORT UNTIL WEEK 15.


Stop using that lame excuse, everyone gets banged up in football, durability is a must if you want to be an elite player. Geez, Orton was on record as to saying he was fine, his arm felt good, he was throwing 70 yards in practice, etc, etc - in Week 15.

:elefant:

vandammage13
02-21-2011, 04:04 PM
Whats funny is that per NFL.com.....

The average ( lets say 15-20 MOST sacked QB's ) for this year-

15-Hassleback 29 sacks 444 att- 1 sack every 15.3 att
16-Freeman 28 sacks 474 pass att- 1 sack every 16.9 att
17-Sanchez 27 sacks 507 pass at- 1 sack every 18.7 att
18 Cassel 26 sacks 450 pass att- 1 sack every 17.3 att
18- Palmer 26 sacks 586 pass att-1 sack every 22.5 att
20 Anderson 25 sacks 327 pass att- 1 sack every 13.08 att

So Kyle had BETTER protection than even middle of the road o-lines, yet somehow his O-line sucked...hmmmmmmm

Couple that with the fact that a number of Orton's sacks were easily avoidable if he had even a spec of athletic ability or heart.

In retrospect, the Broncos O-line was actually pretty good at pass protection last year. Its just the run blocking where they lacked.

BroncoStud
02-21-2011, 04:06 PM
Kyle Orton game stats-
week 1- 3 sacks / 33 pass att
week 2 1 sack/35 pass att
week 3- 1 sack / 57 pass att
week 4 6 sacks/ 50 pass att
week 5-1 sack/38 pass att
week 6- 1 sack/ 34 pass att

not really under siege there Kyle.....13 sacks in 247 pass att ( 1 evry 19 pass attempts)

Jay Cutler- 2010
week 1-4 sack/35 pass att
week 2- 1 sack/29 att
week 3- 3 sack/ 27 att
week 4- 9 sacks/ 11 att
week- 6 6 sacks/ 39 att
week 7- 4 sacks/40 att

27 sacks in 181 pass att...........................1 sack every 6.7 pass att

Ok ...Ortonites tell me again "how Kyle was under seige at the begining of the year"

I'm pretty sure you and I are both on Top's "ignore" list because he got tired of being owned on a daily basis. I guess it's a lot easier to live in a fantasy world when the doctor isn't there to medicate you. :salute:

vandammage13
02-21-2011, 04:08 PM
Let me say it again, for the reading impaired...

KYLE ORTON WAS NOT ON THE INJURY REPORT UNTIL WEEK 15.

KYLE ORTON WAS NOT ON THE INJURY REPORT UNTIL WEEK 15.

KYLE ORTON WAS NOT ON THE INJURY REPORT UNTIL WEEK 15.


Stop using that lame excuse, everyone gets banged up in football, durability is a must if you want to be an elite player. Geez, Orton was on record as to saying he was fine, his arm felt good, he was throwing 70 yards in practice, etc, etc - in Week 15.

:elefant:

Its the same old story with Orton and his fans. Over dramatization of his injuries, as if other football players don't deal with the same things. "Two sprained ankles", "broken index finger", "two banged up ribs"...I really don't care. If you really are that hurt to where it affects your play that badly, then get the f out of the game and stop hurting us.

dogfish
02-21-2011, 04:17 PM
holy shit, you guys are still winding top up about orton?


let it go, ****'s sake. . .

vandammage13
02-21-2011, 04:18 PM
holy shit, you guys are still winding top up about orton?


let it go, ****'s sake. . .

It's really too fun to let go....Although he has taken some of the fun out by putting his opposition on ignore.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 04:53 PM
holy shit, you guys are still winding top up about orton?


let it go, ****'s sake. . .

No problem. Except for North and TX, I can't see what they are saying, anyway. ;)

-----

KCL
02-21-2011, 04:57 PM
"Kyle Orton is tearing this board apart!" :laugh:

I must need new glasses..when I read this the first time...I saw

Kyle Orton is tearing his beard apart....:lol:

of course that might not be too far from the truth..:D

KCL
02-21-2011, 04:59 PM
RC... you are not seriously comparing Orton to Favre? :confused:

He was comparing how many teams Brett had been on in 3 years to how
many Orton had been on...I think that's what he was doing...responding to a post.

topscribe
02-21-2011, 05:00 PM
Interesting when he came here from Chicago he was touted as winner, even though he had bad offensive line and bad defense. Now with Denver losing with him at the helm it's an acceptable, that seems inconsistent to me.

If was to damn injured play well then he shouldn't have been out there.

Finally there is no need for snarky comments.

I have said more than once that Orton had no business out there in his final
two games.

And sorry if I offended you. I thought if I included the phrase "many of you,"
it would be taken generically. But I guess not. It is true, however: What I
have presented really has made very little difference on this board.

-----

chazoe60
02-21-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm so sick of this topic that I don't even give a shit anymore. I will never understand how a Bronco fan would want Orton here but those people probably can't understand why I can't stand him. It is what it is at this point.

If Orton ends up as our starting QB next season I'll just DVR the games and spend my Sundays outdoors. Either way, I'll always be a Bronco fan, I just can't stand watching Orton play so I'll just watch the fast version. The hard part will be ensuring I don't hear the outcome.

As far as the endless arguments go, I'm done.

vandammage13
02-21-2011, 05:24 PM
No problem. Except for North and TX, I can't see what they are saying, anyway. ;)

-----

LOL....:lol:

Kind of like a Wisconsin Democrat state senator....when the discussion gets hot, just run away.

Northman
02-21-2011, 05:27 PM
Kyle Orton game stats-
week 1- 3 sacks / 33 pass att
week 2 1 sack/35 pass att
week 3- 1 sack / 57 pass att
week 4 6 sacks/ 50 pass att
week 5-1 sack/38 pass att
week 6- 1 sack/ 34 pass att

not really under siege there Kyle.....13 sacks in 247 pass att ( 1 evry 19 pass attempts)

Jay Cutler- 2010
week 1-4 sack/35 pass att
week 2- 1 sack/29 att
week 3- 3 sack/ 27 att
week 4- 9 sacks/ 11 att
week- 6 6 sacks/ 39 att
week 7- 4 sacks/40 att

27 sacks in 181 pass att...........................1 sack every 6.7 pass att

Ok ...Ortonites tell me again "how Kyle was under seige at the begining of the year"


I have to give it up to you mate, your owning this thread. Sadly, it should be more about the actual topic but since we are revisiting how and why his stats became inflated i liked this post from you as it pretty much sums it up.


Yup... his record shattering pace seemed to only happen when down 30 points....

He also was on record pace for BEFORE he was injured:
Worst starting QB 3rd down qb rating- 58.4
Worst 4th quarter close qb rating- 58.0
3rd and LESS than 2 yards to go- 54.4
3rd down between 3-7 yards to go- 45.8
Qb under pressure- 12.0

Also I found this too-

"Most games scoring 7 or LESS points in the first half" 8X

dogfish
02-21-2011, 05:37 PM
As far as the endless arguments go, I'm done.

mmm-hmmm, sure you are. . . just admit it, you love this topic like a priest loves little boys. . .


:shocked:

Juriga72
02-21-2011, 09:31 PM
Favre:
2007 GB- Last pass thrown-INT
2008 NYJ- Last pass thrown INT
2009 MINN-Last pass thrown........INT
2010-Min- Last pass thrown-concussion

:coffee:
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Kyle Orton-
2007-last pass thrown-inc
2008-last pass thrown- 3rd and 8 7yard gain
2009-Last pass thrown-2nd and 20 16 yard gain
2010-Last pass thrown-Pick six

WOW...that pretty much sums up Kyle right there....

Juriga72
02-21-2011, 09:35 PM
Exaggerate much?
And since you're so well versed in Ortons playing history, maybe you can inform us how many times he was truly benched (sucked) and how many times he was sat from injury.
TIA
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

2005- AT halftime winning a game versus Atlanta
2006- WHOLE year
2007- Played in last three games (hmm JUST like Tebow)
2010-Benched due to poor play

that would be...4 of 6 years in the NFL benched .750%

SpringsBroncoFan
02-21-2011, 09:51 PM
mmm-hmmm, sure you are. . . just admit it, you love this topic like a priest loves little boys. . .


:shocked:

Ouch!

I've been coming in here and rolling my eyes a bit but...

Yikes...

BroncoStud
02-22-2011, 12:49 AM
The day Orton is traded will be a great day, and it's coming soon. :salute:

Juriga72
02-22-2011, 08:26 AM
The day Orton is traded will be a great day, and it's coming soon. :salute:

Nope...because THEN it will be..."John Elway is so stupid to trade a sure bet first ballot HOF QB like Kyle....what was he thinking"...

and then Kyle will injure himself walking thru DIA

TXBRONC
02-22-2011, 08:38 AM
As the article points out and other articles there is no chance Orton goes anywhere without a new CBA. It's also important to note that timing is huge issue. If a CBA isn't struck until August or September there is probably little chance that Orton is moved if that is what Elway, Xanders, and Fox are thinking.

rcsodak
02-22-2011, 10:12 AM
Finally there is no need for snarky comments.
:lol:
hello pot.
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rcsodak
02-22-2011, 10:17 AM
Couple that with the fact that a number of Orton's sacks were easily avoidable if he had even a spec of athletic ability or heart.

In retrospect, the Broncos O-line was actually pretty good at pass protection last year. Its just the run blocking where they lacked.

Answer me this:
Does a defense TRY to get a sack on every down?
ORRRRRRR.......
Do they tend to pick their spots, either out of favorable matchup or down/distance?
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TXBRONC
02-22-2011, 10:21 AM
:lol:
hello pot.
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I'm not the topic of the thread.

That aside I've been pretty careful with how I post over that several months have you?

vandammage13
02-22-2011, 10:26 AM
Answer me this:
Does a defense TRY to get a sack on every down?
ORRRRRRR.......
Do they tend to pick their spots, either out of favorable matchup or down/distance?
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obviously the latter...not sure what you're getting at.

rcsodak
02-22-2011, 10:27 AM
Its the same old story with Orton and his fans. Over dramatization of his injuries, as if other football players don't deal with the same things. "Two sprained ankles", "broken index finger", "two banged up ribs"...I really don't care. If you really are that hurt to where it affects your play that badly, then get the f out of the game and stop hurting us.

I'm thinking a 70% Orton was head/shoulders better than what was behind him at the time.
People on the team, AND IN THE KNOW, said TT wasn't ready. They say that for not only the teams' but also for His safety.
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vandammage13
02-22-2011, 10:30 AM
I'm thinking a 70% Orton was head/shoulders better than what was behind him at the time.
"reading impaired"? Evidently YOU have an issue there as well, since we listened to people on the team, AND IN THE KNOW, saying TT wasn't ready. They say that for not only the teams' but also for His safety.
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So what you are saying is that those last two Orton starts where he was "hurt" he did better than what Tebow would have.

Juriga72
02-22-2011, 10:32 AM
Answer me this:
Does a defense TRY to get a sack on every down?
ORRRRRRR.......
Do they tend to pick their spots, either out of favorable matchup or down/distance?
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I LOVE Ortonites and how they change the story.....

"Kyle was UNDER SIEGE!!!!!!!! at the begining of the year"- nope, he was sacked LESS than even the 20th most sacked qb.... standing there ALL day on 57 pass attempts...LMAO

"Kyle was playing at a NFL record pace for the first 11 games!!!!"-
Too bad the season IS 16 games and Kyle has NEVER once played a full year since 2003

"Its a favorable matchups that led to less sacks!!!!!"- yes... when you are up 30 at halftime... because in 8 of Kyles 11 games he was "lighting it up" we scored 7 or LESS points in the first half, the other team falls asleep and gives up HUGE amounts of yards and points to still win by 21.

"Kyle is a known Pro Bowl qb by everyone else in the NFL"- and still didnt get voted into THIS years Pro Bowl.....

"He's tough and has never been benched for poor play"-
See injuries/ benching for:
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

rcsodak
02-22-2011, 10:39 AM
I have to give it up to you mate, your owning this thread. Sadly, it should be more about the actual topic but since we are revisiting how and why his stats became inflated i liked this post from you as it pretty much sums it up.

Ridiculousness never ceases.

Sometimes I think when all a poster can do is pull some immaterial stats from the air, they've lost the argument.

Your 'finds' are worth nothing more than drunken fodder around the card table.

*hiccup* :coffee:
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vandammage13
02-22-2011, 10:40 AM
I LOVE Ortonites and how they change the story.....

"Kyle was UNDER SIEGE!!!!!!!! at the begining of the year"- nope, he was sacked LESS than even the 20th most sacked qb.... standing there ALL day on 57 pass attempts...LMAO

"Kyle was playing at a NFL record pace for the first 11 games!!!!"-
Too bad the season IS 16 games and Kyle has NEVER once played a full year since 2003

"Its a favorable matchups that led to less sacks!!!!!"- yes... when you are up 30 at halftime... because in 8 of Kyles 11 games he was "lighting it up" we scored 7 or LESS points in the first half, the other team falls asleep and gives up HUGE amounts of yards and points to still win by 21.

"Kyle is a known Pro Bowl qb by everyone else in the NFL"- and still didnt get voted into THIS years Pro Bowl.....

"He's tough and has never been benched for poor play"-
See injuries/ benching for:
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

Always an excuse for him...Its amusing, really.

rcsodak
02-22-2011, 10:45 AM
I'm not the topic of the thread.

That aside I've been pretty careful with how I post over that several months have you?
You were king of snarky yesterday.

/discussion
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TXBRONC
02-22-2011, 10:53 AM
You were king of snarky yesterday.

/discussion
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I don't think so. Again I'm not the topic of this thread or any other that's posted here.

rcsodak
02-22-2011, 11:14 AM
obviously the latter...not sure what you're getting at.
glad you asked.

To simply go by how many times a QB is sacked in evaluating the Oline is weak, at best.
how about the number of hits he took?
how about the number of pressures he had?
how about the number of rushed passes he made?
how about the number of times he had to throw the ball away to escape a whiffed-on defender?
How about taking the score into account?
what about the ability of the D to get sacks?

The Oline SUCKED ASS from the very first game! They gave up 3 sacks to a team that wasn't real good at sacking, iirc. They couldn't pass OR run block. Hell, everybody was happy as a lark, early on, when they saw him scrambling/evading the rush. And it was a dang good thing he did.
It was prolly more McD's subsequent play calling after that, that kept KO upright.

Will you agree that Most of the time, a running team will give up less sacks? *I'd say ppa but it would be a guess*
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rcsodak
02-22-2011, 11:23 AM
So what you are saying is that those last two Orton starts where he was "hurt" he did better than what Tebow would have.

No. But I'm not the HC of record at the time. Wouldnt he know best?
I'm not blessed with that ability to foretell like others seem to be, on both sides of the argument. Are you?
Was it just the last 2 games he played that are in question? Or was I replying to comments saying he should've come out any time he was hurt.
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arapaho2
02-22-2011, 11:29 AM
I'm surely glad they didn't give up on Elway when he failed to lead his team
to wins during his 5-11 season in 1990. Since that happened to one of the
game's finest in history, there must be more to it than just the quarterback . . .

-----


geez top...is there no end to the superficial attempts to endorse orton:lol:

why would they give up on elway after a pittiful 1990 season

by then he had a pro bowl berth in 86,87, and 89
all pro in 87
league MVP in 87
and led a under talented team to 3 superbowls

orton?

topscribe
02-22-2011, 11:30 AM
glad you asked.

To simply go by how many times a QB is sacked in evaluating the Oline is weak, at best.
how about the number of hits he took?
how about the number of pressures he had?
how about the number of rushed passes he made?
how about the number of times he had to throw the ball away to escape a whiffed-on defender?
How about taking the score into account?
what about the ability of the D to get sacks?

The Oline SUCKED ASS from the very first game! They gave up 3 sacks to a team that wasn't real good at sacking, iirc. They couldn't pass OR run block. Hell, everybody was happy as a lark, early on, when they saw him scrambling/evading the rush. And it was a dang good thing he did.
It was prolly more McD's subsequent play calling after that, that kept KO upright.

Will you agree that Most of the time, a running team will give up less sacks? *I'd say ppa but it would be a guess*
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Yup, how soon we forget . . .

-----

topscribe
02-22-2011, 11:32 AM
geez top...is there no end to the superficial attempts to endorse orton:lol:

why would they give up on elway after a pittiful 1990 season

by then he had a pro bowl berth in 86,87, and 89
all pro in 87
league MVP in 87
and led a under talented team to 3 superbowls

orton?

There seems at times a dearth of reading comprehension on this board . . .

-----

vandammage13
02-22-2011, 11:35 AM
glad you asked.

To simply go by how many times a QB is sacked in evaluating the Oline is weak, at best.
how about the number of hits he took?
how about the number of pressures he had?
how about the number of rushed passes he made?
how about the number of times he had to throw the ball away to escape a whiffed-on defender?
How about taking the score into account?
what about the ability of the D to get sacks?

The Oline SUCKED ASS from the very first game! They gave up 3 sacks to a team that wasn't real good at sacking, iirc. They couldn't pass OR run block. Hell, everybody was happy as a lark, early on, when they saw him scrambling/evading the rush. And it was a dang good thing he did.
It was prolly more McD's subsequent play calling after that, that kept KO upright.

Will you agree that Most of the time, a running team will give up less sacks? *I'd say ppa but it would be a guess*Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Yes I would agree that a running team would give up less sacks. I already stated earlier in this thread that the OLine sucked from a runblocking perspective. To me, that shows that they really weren't all that bad at pass blocking when you consider they could never establish the run (or even tried to for that matter). In reality, just talking pass blocking, the Oline was right about average. KO didn't face any more pressure than most QBs did.

You talk about other factors to consider (pressure, hurries, knockdowns, etc.), and while you are correct that these things need to be considered along with sacks, you failed to note any statistics on how many times Orton was knocked down, hit, hurried, or pressured compared with other QBs. So your argument falls short because you are assuming that Kyle was pressured more without presenting any evidence to support your claim. It is all theoretical on your part with no tangible facts.

arapaho2
02-22-2011, 11:36 AM
There seems at times a dearth of reading comprehension on this board . . .

-----


no trouble top...you stated you were glad they didnt give up on elway after a bad season

i showed why they wouldnt compared to why they would under orton

simple right?

rcsodak
02-22-2011, 11:39 AM
Always an excuse for him...Its amusing, really.
Pretty sad when a player is amongst the leaders when the PB fan voting is going on (iirc)and yet he's nowhere to be seen.
Why the hell would the NFL" add" a replacement player that isn't even wanted by his fanbase. Pretty sad.
At least the KC fans are classy enough to vote for their players. Especially when most were calling cassel a bust early on, but their problem was his backup was even worse at the time. Funny how a running game/improved ST/improved defense can get an average qb to Honolulu.
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vandammage13
02-22-2011, 11:41 AM
No. But I'm not the HC of record at the time. Wouldnt he know best?I'm not blessed with that ability to foretell like others seem to be, on both sides of the argument. Are you?
Was it just the last 2 games he played that are in question? Or was I replying to comments saying he should've come out any time he was hurt.
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McD was the head coach at the time, and he got fired...so maybe he didn't know best.

I can't look into the future or change the past, but I would bet if McD would have started Tebow sooner he would still be the HC. (Unless Spygate II was enough to fire him by itself, which is a different subject alltogether.)

vandammage13
02-22-2011, 11:46 AM
Pretty sad when a player is amongst the leaders when the PB fan voting is going on (iirc)and yet he's nowhere to be seen.
Why the hell would the NFL" add" a replacement player that isn't even wanted by his fanbase. Pretty sad.
At least the KC fans are classy enough to vote for their players. Especially when most were calling cassel a bust early on, but their problem was his backup was even worse at the time. Funny how a running game/improved ST/improved defense can get an average qb to Honolulu.
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It takes more than your own fanbase to get you to the PB. Apparently the rest of the league doesn't think too much of Orton. Especially when you consider how now the 4th QB in the conference gets in due to the PB being played before the Super Bowl.

topscribe
02-22-2011, 11:55 AM
no trouble top...you stated you were glad they didnt give up on elway after a bad season

i showed why they wouldnt compared to why they would under orton

simple right?

:rolleyes:

-----

rcsodak
02-22-2011, 12:05 PM
McD was the head coach at the time, and he got fired...so maybe he didn't know best.

I can't look into the future or change the past, but I would bet if McD would have started Tebow sooner he would still be the HC. (Unless Spygate II was enough to fire him by itself, which is a different subject alltogether.)
Well, for a guy that was tripping over himself for the kid, and still didn't play him, is telling.
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Juriga72
02-22-2011, 12:07 PM
glad you asked.

To simply go by how many times a QB is sacked in evaluating the Oline is weak, at best.
how about the number of hits he took?
how about the number of pressures he had?
how about the number of rushed passes he made?
how about the number of times he had to throw the ball away to escape a whiffed-on defender?
How about taking the score into account?
what about the ability of the D to get sacks?

The Oline SUCKED ASS from the very first game! They gave up 3 sacks to a team that wasn't real good at sacking, iirc. They couldn't pass OR run block. Hell, everybody was happy as a lark, early on, when they saw him scrambling/evading the rush. And it was a dang good thing he did.
It was prolly more McD's subsequent play calling after that, that kept KO upright.

Will you agree that Most of the time, a running team will give up less sacks? *I'd say ppa but it would be a guess*
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sigh....... oh well.... "When Kyle was getting his brains beat in at the begining of the year...blah....blah injured ribs..."

LOL... NOW its changed AGAIN..... "Whats the down and DISTANCE!!!!!"...LOL

Funny thing is..... Chicago with a running team- DEAD last in number of passes attempted...

Would prove your theory wrong right now...

Oh.... just FYI of the top 10 teams who gave up the most sacks this year:

#1-Chicago #32 pass att
#3- Carolina #26th pass att
#6 Oakland- 24th pass att
#7 San Fran-#22nd pass att
#8 Pittsburgh- #27th pass att
#9 Baltimore- #24th pass att

So 6 teams from the bottom 5/8ths of the NFL in PASS ATT gave up top 10 numbers in sacks...meaning they run more than they pass

WOW that makes OUR O-line seem pretty durn good....

I know... I know.... "WHAT kind of hits did he take?"
WOW!!!! Look at that.... ALL the way down at #24th..... 64 TOTAL QB hits allowed.... yikes

In 580 pass attempts 64 QB hits- 1 qb hit every 9 pass att
Lets see....
Jay Cutler...432 pass att / 92 qb hits 1 qb hit every 4. 6 pass att


yeah...keep trying WAIT!!!!! I know its HAS to be "3rd down passing" when the defense KNOWS you are going to pass.....

Orton-120 3rd down passing att- 16 sacks 1 sack every 8 3rd down pass
Cutler-116 3rd down passing att- 26 sacks 1 sack every 4.3 3rd down pass


hmmmmm that didnt work either......

Ok so lets see..... ANYTHING that proves Kyle is good works, and anything that proves Kyle is bad "Can't be used to show it"...

got it

vandammage13
02-22-2011, 12:22 PM
Well, for a guy that was tripping over himself for the kid, and still didn't play him, is telling.
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Well, from what I saw those last three games, he might not have been a polished, finished product....But he was definitely ready to play.

The game did not seem to be too big or fast for him.

vandammage13
02-22-2011, 12:24 PM
sigh....... oh well.... "When Kyle was getting his brains beat in at the begining of the year...blah....blah injured ribs..."

LOL... NOW its changed AGAIN..... "Whats the down and DISTANCE!!!!!"...LOL

Funny thing is..... Chicago with a running team- DEAD last in number of passes attempted...

Would prove your theory wrong right now...

Oh.... just FYI of the top 10 teams who gave up the most sacks this year:

#1-Chicago #32 pass att
#3- Carolina #26th pass att
#6 Oakland- 24th pass att
#7 San Fran-#22nd pass att
#8 Pittsburgh- #27th pass att
#9 Baltimore- #24th pass att

So 6 teams from the bottom 5/8ths of the NFL in PASS ATT gave up top 10 numbers in sacks...meaning they run more than they pass

WOW that makes OUR O-line seem pretty durn good....

I know... I know.... "WHAT kind of hits did he take?"
WOW!!!! Look at that.... ALL the way down at #24th..... 64 TOTAL QB hits allowed.... yikes

In 580 pass attempts 64 QB hits- 1 qb hit every 9 pass att
Lets see....
Jay Cutler...432 pass att / 92 qb hits 1 qb hit every 4. 6 pass att


yeah...keep trying WAIT!!!!! I know its HAS to be "3rd down passing" when the defense KNOWS you are going to pass.....

Orton-120 3rd down passing att- 16 sacks 1 sack every 8 3rd down pass
Cutler-116 3rd down passing att- 26 sacks 1 sack every 4.3 3rd down pass


hmmmmm that didnt work either......

Ok so lets see..... ANYTHING that proves Kyle is good works, and anything that proves Kyle is bad "Can't be used to show it"...

got it

Do you hear that?....I think it was the sound of RC's argument going down in flames.

PAINTERDAVE
02-22-2011, 12:24 PM
Well, for a guy that was tripping over himself for the kid, and still didn't play him, is telling.
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Nope.. RC... what is telling about Tebow is his actual performance.

This old argument against Tebow is weak and intellectually dishonest.

It hints at some mysterious problem with Tebow...
when actually it reflects a hidden agenda by McD to use Tebow as leverage to keep his job another year.

Failed argument. Surprised to see you resurect it here. :confused:

topscribe
02-22-2011, 12:24 PM
Well, for a guy that was tripping over himself for the kid, and still didn't play him, is telling.
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It's amazing -- isn't it? -- how some people think the W-L record would have
been different, had the Broncos inserted at QB a raw rookie who even Elway
and Fox consented was, although a "good football player," not yet a good QB.
Somehow, they reason, the blocking would have been better for the RBs and
the defense would have started to tackle and rush the passer better.

These Broncos would have suffered a losing season had Peyton Manning been
the QB. The Broncos lost because of a last-place running game PLUS a last-
place defense. The QB, who even Elway said played at a Pro Bowl level, is NOT
to blame for that record. Period. Is he SOME of the blame? Perhaps. A little.
But not much.

You know, I'm not used to this. I'm used to debating with those who are
thinking more deeply on an issue. Even though I am on the opposite side of
Chaz on this issue, I'm with him on what he had to say about the debate: I,
too, am out of here . . .

-----

vandammage13
02-22-2011, 12:29 PM
It's amazing -- isn't it? -- how some people think the W-L record would have
been different, had the Broncos inserted at QB a raw rookie who even Elway
and Fox consented was, although a "good football player," not yet a good QB.
Somehow, they reason, the blocking would have been better for the RBs and
the defense would have started to tackle and rush the passer better.

These Broncos would have suffered a losing season had Peyton Manning been
the QB. The Broncos lost because of a last-place running game PLUS a last-
place defense. The QB, who even Elway said played at a Pro Bowl level, is NOT
to blame for that record. Period. Is he SOME of the blame? Perhaps. A little.
But not much.

You know, I'm not used to this. I'm used to debating with those who are
thinking more deeply on an issue. Even though I am on the opposite side of
Chaz on this issue, I'm with him on what he had to say about the debate: I,
too, am out of here . . .

-----

Orton was part of the losing equation as well...Not the only reason for losing, but part of it.

As far as Elway supporting Orton...What do you expect him to say. You are blind if you don't see that Elway wants Ortons value to remain high in the event of a trade, while not throwing him under the bus if the CBA prevents a trade from happening and Orton comes back next year. Elway would be a moron to say anything other than what he has.

cardoso
02-22-2011, 12:33 PM
Yup... his record shattering pace seemed to only happen when down 30 points....

He also was on record pace for BEFORE he was injured:
Worst starting QB 3rd down qb rating- 58.4
Worst 4th quarter close qb rating- 58.0
3rd and LESS than 2 yards to go- 54.4
3rd down between 3-7 yards to go- 45.8
Qb under pressure- 12.0

Also I found this too-

"Most games scoring 7 or LESS points in the first half" 8X

also don't forget:


the interception he threw against jacksonville to end the game
The bounce pass he threw to lloyd on 4th down and goal vs the colts that cost us dearly while missing a wide open eddie royal in the middle of the field
the interception he threw to end the game vs the 49ers
The interception he threw vs san diego when denver had momentum only to have san diego take the ball down and score off the interception and tie the game.


how about all the times a defender looked at him and he falls to the ground in the fetal position.

how about that ball he threw to brandon lloyd 5yds out of bounds while lloyd was running open to the endzone. it was a great catch by lloyd though even if he had to make it 5yds out of bounce.

Juriga72
02-22-2011, 12:56 PM
Orton was part of the losing equation as well...Not the only reason for losing, but part of it.

As far as Elway supporting Orton...What do you expect him to say. You are blind if you don't see that Elway wants Ortons value to remain high in the event of a trade, while not throwing him under the bus if the CBA prevents a trade from happening and Orton comes back next year. Elway would be a moron to say anything other than what he has.

Ortonites will not respond to these facts about Kyle:

His career third down qb rating is within 4 pts of this years debacle...LMAO

2005- 52/120 544 yards 4 td 6 int 47.4 qb rating
2006- Sat due to his sucking
2007- 11/26 119 yards 0 0 56.4 qb rating
2008- 63/124 757 yards 4td 3 int 70.5 qb rating
2009- 84/153 596 yards 7 td 3 int 86.9 qb rating
2010- 60/120 670 yards 2td 4 int 58.0 qb rating

Totals- 270/543 2686 yards 17td 16int 62.2 qb rating

vandammage13
02-22-2011, 12:58 PM
Ortonites will not respond to these facts about Kyle:

His career third down qb rating is within 4 pts of this years debacle...LMAO

2005- 52/120 544 yards 4 td 6 int 47.4 qb rating
2006- Sat due to his sucking
2007- 11/26 119 yards 0 0 56.4 qb rating
2008- 63/124 757 yards 4td 3 int 70.5 qb rating
2009- 84/153 596 yards 7 td 3 int 86.9 qb rating
2010- 60/120 670 yards 2td 4 int 58.0 qb rating

Totals- 270/543 2686 yards 17td 16int 62.2 qb rating

But Kyle just wins.

Juriga72
02-22-2011, 02:29 PM
But Kyle just wins.

Yes he does....
2005-10 wins w/ #2 defense and #4 rushing
2007--2 wins
2008-8 wins
2009 -8 wins
2010- 3 wins

"He wins with a very good running game and defense"

BroncoStud
02-23-2011, 05:57 AM
It will be interesing to see the 180 TOP and RC do when Orton is traded and Tebow outpeforms him next season... Either way, the day the trade goes down I will have a big smile on my face. :salute:

Dzone
02-23-2011, 06:13 AM
John Skelton put Orton to shame

Dzone
02-23-2011, 06:24 AM
I,
too, am out of here . . .

-----

You'll be back. You love all the attention you get by being the lone Orton lover on the board.

BroncoStud
02-23-2011, 09:04 AM
Yep.

rcsodak
02-23-2011, 11:41 AM
Yes I would agree that a running team would give up less sacks. I already stated earlier in this thread that the OLine sucked from a runblocking perspective. To me, that shows that they really weren't all that bad at pass blocking when you consider they could never establish the run (or even tried to for that matter). In reality, just talking pass blocking, the Oline was right about average. KO didn't face any more pressure than most QBs did.

You talk about other factors to consider (pressure, hurries, knockdowns, etc.), and while you are correct that these things need to be considered along with sacks, you failed to note any statistics on how many times Orton was knocked down, hit, hurried, or pressured compared with other QBs. So your argument falls short because you are assuming that Kyle was pressured more without presenting any evidence to support your claim. It is all theoretical on your part with no tangible facts.

Lmao.
Maybe you have the time to find such a site. I don't. Ironic how others can say" I watched the games, didn't you?" when asked about" facts", and are given a pass if it backs up your side.

13, I watched the games. I mentioned gm1, and yet you didn't comment on it. How about the Tenn game?
I asked you if D's try for sacks every play, you said no. So I dont put much credence into sacks allowed as a realistic and true evaluation of an Oline. Just color me rational.
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rcsodak
02-23-2011, 11:45 AM
Nope.. RC... what is telling about Tebow is his actual performance.

This old argument against Tebow is weak and intellectually dishonest.

It hints at some mysterious problem with Tebow...
when actually it reflects a hidden agenda by McD to use Tebow as leverage to keep his job another year.

Failed argument. Surprised to see you resurect it here. :confused:
Always enjoy reading your personal opinions, dave. :grin:
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rcsodak
02-23-2011, 11:53 AM
also don't forget:


the interception he threw against jacksonville to end the game
The bounce pass he threw to lloyd on 4th down and goal vs the colts that cost us dearly while missing a wide open eddie royal in the middle of the field
the interception he threw to end the game vs the 49ers
The interception he threw vs san diego when denver had momentum only to have san diego take the ball down and score off the interception and tie the game.


how about all the times a defender looked at him and he falls to the ground in the fetal position.

how about that ball he threw to brandon lloyd 5yds out of bounds while lloyd was running open to the endzone. it was a great catch by lloyd though even if he had to make it 5yds out of bounce.

Yeah.....DAMN those qb's that throw untimely int's, underthrow their wr's, miss wide open wr's for easy td's.

Oh wait.

Why are you talking about Roethlisberger in the SB......

:coffee:
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rcsodak
02-23-2011, 11:56 AM
John Skelton put Orton to shameHe suited up in the OB last year?
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Juriga72
02-23-2011, 12:15 PM
Yeah.....DAMN those qb's that throw untimely int's, underthrow their wr's, miss wide open wr's for easy td's.

Oh wait.

Why are you talking about Roethlisberger in the SB......

:coffee:
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You would think a QB who's been in the NFL since 2005 would have played at least ONE playoff game huh? I mean sheesh.....

Of course Big Ben HAS made that last second throw to WIN a Super Bowll.. you know 4th and goal...... to WIN it so yeah going 1-1 on last second throws IN a Super Bowl is better than never once throwing a PASS in a playoff game.

OWNED yet again........

TXBRONC
02-23-2011, 12:39 PM
Come guy we could all stand to get back on topic. The article doesn't have anything to do with Orton's abilities or the lack there of. It's about the awkward position that he and the team are because of the labor dispute.

vandammage13
02-23-2011, 12:47 PM
Lmao.
Maybe you have the time to find such a site. I don't. Ironic how others can say" I watched the games, didn't you?" when asked about" facts", and are given a pass if it backs up your side.

13, I watched the games. I mentioned gm1, and yet you didn't comment on it. How about the Tenn game?
I asked you if D's try for sacks every play, you said no. So I dont put much credence into sacks allowed as a realistic and true evaluation of an Oline. Just color me rational.
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A bad pass blocking O-line will still give up a lot of sacks even when a defense is only rushing four guys and not necessarily calling a play with intentions of sacking the QB.

Given the fact that the Broncos didn't give up too many sacks in these situations, coupled with Orton's niche for going into the fetal position, I would say they fared pretty well.

KCL
02-23-2011, 12:52 PM
Orton was part of the losing equation as well...Not the only reason for losing, but part of it.



Now looking at this statement here makes me wonder if all you Orton haters are also wanting the rest of "losing equation" players to leave the team? Did I miss all the threads on them? Or were there any?

Think about that statement I have quoted...part of it you say but some of you guys carry on like he was the only problem on the team last season.

KCL
02-23-2011, 12:55 PM
Come guy we could all stand to get back on topic. The article doesn't have anything to do with Orton's abilities or the lack there of. It's about the awkward position that he and the team are because of the labor dispute.

Now Tx..what did you really expect when this thread was made? ;)

Juriga72
02-23-2011, 12:59 PM
Now looking at this statement here makes me wonder if all you Orton haters are also wanting the rest of "losing equation" players to leave the team? Did I miss all the threads on them? Or were there any?

Think about that statement I have quoted...part of it you say but some of you guys carry on like he was the only problem on the team last season.

No his career inability on third downs is what caused us to lose many games last year. 62.2 Qb rating on 543 third down passes thrown, being just slightly higher than his 58.0 qb rating last year.

Kyle's inabilities to score points in the first half- 8 games we scored LESS than 7 points in the first half caused us to lose many games last year.

Kyle's being the NFL lowest rated QB in "Close games LATE" caused us to lose many games last year.

KCL
02-23-2011, 01:00 PM
No his career inability on third downs is what caused us to lose many games last year. 62.2 Qb rating on 543 third down passes thrown, being just slightly higher than his 58.0 qb rating last year.

Kyle's inabilities to score points in the first half- 8 games we scored LESS than 7 points in the first half caused us to lose many games last year.

Kyle's being the NFL lowest rated QB in "Close games LATE" caused us to lose many games last year.

ok fine..but if you're gonna respond...answer my questions...:lol:

TXBRONC
02-23-2011, 01:02 PM
Now Tx..what did you really expect when this thread was made? ;)

True but nevertheless I still thought it was worth the effort to try and get us back on topic.

cardoso
02-23-2011, 01:03 PM
Yeah.....DAMN those qb's that throw untimely int's, underthrow their wr's, miss wide open wr's for easy td's.

Oh wait.

Why are you talking about Roethlisberger in the SB......

:coffee:
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yea you mean like that game winning drive in the superbowl vs the cardinals topping it off with a perfect pass under pressure for the game wining touchdown. :coffee:

KCL
02-23-2011, 01:06 PM
True but nevertheless I still thought it was worth the effort to try and get us back on topic.

:lol: I applaud your efforts :congrats:

rcsodak
02-23-2011, 01:27 PM
yea you mean like that game winning drive in the superbowl vs the cardinals topping it off with a perfect pass under pressure for the game wining touchdown. :coffee:
Ummm, no.
My post stands on its own merit.
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rcsodak
02-23-2011, 01:31 PM
Now looking at this statement here makes me wonder if all you Orton haters are also wanting the rest of "losing equation" players to leave the team? Did I miss all the threads on them? Or were there any?

Think about that statement I have quoted...part of it you say but some of you guys carry on like he was the only problem on the team last season.

Its useless with this bunch, kc. Less n less intelligent debate going on and more n more 1-upping kiddy banter. Time to join Top n co.
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cardoso
02-23-2011, 01:48 PM
Ummm, no.
My post stands on its own merit.
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I cant wait for you and top to leave these boards when orton is told to pack his bags. :lol::elefant::beer::salute:

KCL
02-23-2011, 02:15 PM
I cant wait for you and top to leave these boards when orton is told to pack his bags. :lol::elefant::beer::salute:

What makes you think they're going to leave? They're Bronco fans.

KCL
02-23-2011, 02:16 PM
Its useless with this bunch, kc. Less n less intelligent debate going on and more n more 1-upping kiddy banter. Time to join Top n co.
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I know rc...I just thought I'd ask...;)

cardoso
02-23-2011, 03:19 PM
What makes you think they're going to leave? They're ORTON fans.

:coffee::coffee:

KCL
02-23-2011, 03:36 PM
:coffee::coffee:



They may be Orton fans but they're Bronco fans before they are
Orton fans.

topscribe
02-23-2011, 04:43 PM
I cant wait for you and top to leave these boards when orton is told to pack his bags. :lol::elefant::beer::salute:

I've got to answer this one.

Son, do you remember when Bob Howsam bought the franchise that was to
become the football team in Denver? Do you remember the contest to name
that new franchise? Can you describe the person who won the franchise?

I do, and I can. You see, I was involved in that contest.

Can you tell me who was the first Bronco to have his number retired with the
team? Can you tell me with whom the Broncos played their first game, where it
was played, and who won, and by what score? Can you tell me the name of
the RB who played in that game? How about the MLB: Can you name him?

I can. You see, I saw that game.

Were you there when Floyd Little was drafted? When Lou Saban "fired" Little?
When Saban settled for a tie, saying "a half loaf is better than none"?

I was.

How about when . . . well, you get the idea. Maybe. Even at your level.

You didn't go through 14 years without a winning season, as I did between
1960 and 1973. That means I have been with the Broncos for 50 years now,
through good times and bad . . . and there have been very bad times.

So the next time you question my fanhood, son, just keep in mind what an
absolute fool you are making of yourself. :salute:


Oh yes, regarding your suggesting I leave this board? I am one of its Founders . . . :coffee:


"Nuff said . . . back to lurking . . .

-----

chazoe60
02-23-2011, 04:54 PM
Ha ha Top is old. :laugh:

Juriga72
02-23-2011, 05:03 PM
Ha ha Top is old. :laugh:

Maybe thats why he likes Kyle orton so much....

I mean his losing 18 out of 21 games was only done waYYYYYYY back in the 1960's......right?

I can see how old Top likes to remember his youth thru Kyle

vandammage13
02-23-2011, 06:33 PM
Maybe thats why he likes Kyle orton so much....

I mean his losing 18 out of 21 games was only done waYYYYYYY back in the 1960's......right?

I can see how old Top likes to remember his youth thru Kyle

Nostalgia can never be underrated.

zbeg
02-23-2011, 06:35 PM
Nostalgia can never be underrated.

Pssh. Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.

Juriga72
02-23-2011, 07:22 PM
I remember when Red Grange ran those kicks back against Michigan...man I thought we'd draft him THAT year...... "Can't miss Herb Flaterly"...well.. he missed for us

PAINTERDAVE
02-23-2011, 08:19 PM
Now looking at this statement here makes me wonder if all you Orton haters are also wanting the rest of "losing equation" players to leave the team? Did I miss all the threads on them? Or were there any?

Think about that statement I have quoted...part of it you say but some of you guys carry on like he was the only problem on the team last season.

Deal is.. Orton was not the only problem... but as the QB/leader..

he is sorely lacking in leadership.

His time here is over... thast is as plain as plain can be.

I asked some folks today, in realityville, what they would do if Orton was declared starter...
they were amazed that anyone could even talk of that posiblity.

By and large... the fans I know in real liofe, are all ready for Tebow to get his shot.

It is only a few on this board who even think that Orton is gonna be on the team come day 1.

I seriously doubt that Elway will NOT trade Orton...
He is after all, on that one year deal...
it is not like he is gonna just be paid millions to ride the bench then say bye bye.

I wish him the best...
hope he gets a team with the situation that is good for what he's got.

It just aint here....

KCL
02-23-2011, 08:42 PM
Deal is.. Orton was not the only problem... but as the QB/leader..

he is sorely lacking in leadership.

His time here is over... thast is as plain as plain can be.

I asked some folks today, in realityville, what they would do if Orton was declared starter...
they were amazed that anyone could even talk of that posiblity.

By and large... the fans I know in real liofe, are all ready for Tebow to get his shot.

It is only a few on this board who even think that Orton is gonna be on the team come day 1.

I seriously doubt that Elway will NOT trade Orton...
He is after all, on that one year deal...
it is not like he is gonna just be paid millions to ride the bench then say bye bye.

I wish him the best...
hope he gets a team with the situation that is good for what he's got.

It just aint here....

You don't have to convince me..I was just asking a question..:D