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atwater27
09-28-2008, 04:19 PM
Here is to the worst defense in the NFL. The worst defensive line, the worst linebackers, and the worst defensive backs. The only defensive players we have that are worth a shit are Champ and D.J. That is it, period, end of story. The Chiefs showed a blueprint to beat Denver handily without the offensive fireworks.... Run the ball, defend against the pass every down. Voila! Instant win. That look on Cutler's face was the realization that nothing he can do will make a difference, as every 6 will be matched within a minute or 2 by the other team. I have never faced this as a fan, not taking any comfort in a touchdown by the Denver offense. Because I know it will simply be matched by the opposing D. Disgraceful, shitty, crappy and unnacceptable. I could care less what a powerhouse we are on offense. I take pride in Defense, and right now I could not be more embarassed being a Denver fan.

Northman
09-28-2008, 04:23 PM
Ive seen it before so im not too surprised. But, the show must go on as they say.

ApaOps5
09-28-2008, 04:24 PM
Yes


*I didn't read if this was a question or an opinion but no matter what, YES

gobroncsnv
09-28-2008, 04:41 PM
Well, there were a lot who said wait until we play an offense that's not so hot... Looks like we don't have to wait anymore.

honz
09-28-2008, 04:46 PM
4 turnovers...our offense isn't some sort of deity...they screw up too. How 'bout our offense score more than 1 TD and I will be willing to blame the defense.

atwater27
09-28-2008, 04:59 PM
4 turnovers...our offense isn't some sort of deity...they screw up too. How 'bout our offense score more than 1 TD and I will be willing to blame the defense.

Dude, this is the QWEEFS we are talking about here, not the Cowboys. Let's get that straight. The Chiefs are a freaking joke. On offense and defense. And, aparrently, so is our defense.

honz
09-28-2008, 05:09 PM
Dude, this is the QWEEFS we are talking about here, not the Cowboys. Let's get that straight. The Chiefs are a freaking joke. On offense and defense. And, aparrently, so is our defense.

Yes, it is a joke to lose to the Chefs, but tell Jay not to throw idiotic INTs and tell our offense not to turn it over 4 times and then I will blame our defense. Our defense wasn't great, but our offense was terrible...team loss and I am tired of the defense being the scapegoat. We were terrible in almost every aspect of the game today.

Broncos Mtnman
09-28-2008, 05:11 PM
4 turnovers...our offense isn't some sort of deity...they screw up too. How 'bout our offense score more than 1 TD and I will be willing to blame the defense.

How about our defense stop the only offensive weapon the Chefs have (LJ).

Yeah, our offense made it's mistakes, but to give up 200 yards to a player when you KNOW that the Chefs run 99% of the time is pathetic.

Particularly pathetic was the two big runs with about 2 minutes left when everybody in the galaxy knows that LJ is going to get the ball in order to kill the clock, the second one resulting in an "in your face" TD.

atwater27
09-28-2008, 05:11 PM
Yes, it is a joke to lose to the Chefs, but tell Jay not to throw idiotic INTs and tell our offense not to turn it over 4 times and then I will blame our defense. Our defense wasn't great, but our offense was terrible...team loss and I am tired of the defense being the scapegoat. We were terrible in almost every aspect of the game today.

I am tired of the defense being the scapegoat too. they need to improve.

Northman
09-28-2008, 05:28 PM
Dude, this is the QWEEFS we are talking about here, not the Cowboys. Let's get that straight. The Chiefs are a freaking joke. On offense and defense. And, aparrently, so is our defense.

Again, i agree this is a game that we should of won. But any given sunday you either win or you lose. San Diego is a in a dogfight right now and if they lose to Oakland that will totally screw up CoachChaz's rankings for next week. :tsk:

Rex
09-28-2008, 05:34 PM
Worst Defense in the NFL.

Period.

Krugan
09-28-2008, 05:37 PM
Speaking of rankings, Dallas is losing as well.

Will be some shakeups....

For positves, there arent any. Cutler still forcing the ball. Dline was better but not good enough(forcing pressure on the qb). we focused on stopping the run, ohh wait....

It was something, that game, something not sure what though.

BigDaddyBronco
09-28-2008, 05:37 PM
Watching this defense play is like pouring bleach in my eyes.

Rex
09-28-2008, 05:40 PM
Watching this defense play is like pouring bleach in my eyes.

The DL gets as much penetration as Mo.

Horrible.

BigDaddyBronco
09-28-2008, 05:44 PM
Watching us play zone with no pass rush is so horribly painful. You know it's only luck when we stop them.

The few times we blitzed they had chances at big plays, but at least we were trying.

Ziggy
09-28-2008, 05:46 PM
There is only 1 possible way for the Chiefs to win. Larry Johnson has to have a big day. They knew it, we knew it, the defense knew it, and they still did it. @!#!

SR
09-28-2008, 05:51 PM
Um. Our offense lost us the game today, not the defense. If Royal and Marshall wouldn't have fumbled (though Marshall's was questionable) and Jay wouldn't have thrown two EASY picks, we wouldn't have lost. Period.

BigDaddyBronco
09-28-2008, 05:59 PM
Sure our offense lost the game today and will have off days such as today. What is so discouraging is that our defense is showing no signs of improvement at all. Their most talented young offensive line player Albert goes off and Doom still gets zero pass rush.

True, they didn't have to pass much as LJ had 198 yds rushing. Oh, BTW, Huard went 21 of 28 for 75% pass completion efficiency today. We are going to get picked apart all year unless something changes.

SR
09-28-2008, 06:06 PM
Agreed. If something doesn't happen, we're screwed on D. Our D has to get somewhere quick. We need to quit experimenting with the 3-4 and just play a solid 4-3 with lots of stunts and blitzes.

Rex
09-28-2008, 06:08 PM
Agreed. If something doesn't happen, we're screwed on D. Our D has to get somewhere quick. We need to quit experimenting with the 3-4 and just play a solid 4-3 with lots of stunts and blitzes.

Horrible DL and S. 4-3, 3-4, anyway you combo it, it sucks.:coffee:

Watchthemiddle
09-28-2008, 06:09 PM
The blame definately needs to be spread around to all 4 areas of the game.
1. Offense
2. Defense
3. Special Teams
4. Coaching

This team clearly was NOT ready to play today. Shanahan said this was a poor week of practicing. You play how you practice. This team showed that today.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-28-2008, 06:10 PM
Um. Our offense lost us the game today, not the defense. If Royal and Marshall wouldn't have fumbled (though Marshall's was questionable) and Jay wouldn't have thrown two EASY picks, we wouldn't have lost. Period.

Exactly right - I was listening to KOA after the game, and when it was stated that KC's average STARTING yard line was the 46 - not the defense

Rex
09-28-2008, 06:12 PM
Exactly right - I was listening to KOA after the game, and when it was stated that KC's average STARTING yard line was the 46 - not the defense

The offense shit the bed. Cutler had his head up his ass. However, the defense could not get the sorry ass Chiefs offense off the field. Imagine if the offense had played that way against SD? It would have been 48-3.

BeefStew25
09-28-2008, 06:22 PM
I am done with this bullshit. I threw my wife's head through the tv.

dogfish
09-28-2008, 06:22 PM
Worst Defense in the NFL.

Period.

yes, it is. . . .



:frusty:



hey, where are those people who kept saying that we're better against the run this year?

ApaOps5
09-28-2008, 06:23 PM
I am done with this bullshit. I threw my wife's head through the tv.

Wow thats a pathetic joke. :coffee:

Rex
09-28-2008, 06:24 PM
I am done with this bullshit. I threw my wife's head through the tv.

What did you do with the body?:eek:

BeefStew25
09-28-2008, 06:27 PM
What did you do with the body?:eek:

Bone meal for my lawn.

Rex
09-28-2008, 06:28 PM
Bone meal for my lawn.

I wonder if Tubby ripped his wife's head off?

BeefStew25
09-28-2008, 06:30 PM
Wow thats a pathetic joke. :coffee:

Who said I was joking? If we lose and someone is not dead or injured, you simply don't care.

BeefStew25
09-28-2008, 06:31 PM
I wonder if Tubby ripped his wife's head off?

Oh, he is going to be on his period this week.

Rex
09-28-2008, 06:32 PM
There is a show about Tommy Luchese on the Biography Channel.

DenverBronkHoes
09-28-2008, 06:33 PM
worst in the league.....

jay had a bad day.... the fumbles hurt.... But regardless, it was the defense that spent the most time on the field. Holding a team to field goals just isnt enough... 3rd down conversions are atrocious...

Cutler will always be able to bail this team out, no matter how bad it looks... But he needs to be given the chance... Worthless sitting on the sidelines watching defense let an opponent march all over the field, eating up clock, giving up field goals....

not how it should be

BeefStew25
09-28-2008, 06:35 PM
There is a show about Tommy Luchese on the Biography Channel.

How is he in coverage?

DenverBronkHoes
09-28-2008, 06:35 PM
again........... i will say

Watch the other games... Watch their defenses..... We dont even look like an NFL defense... its very sad......

bed shitters

Broncolingus
09-28-2008, 06:37 PM
Let me guess...Shanahan is looking for another defensive coordinator to 'right the ship?'

Rex
09-28-2008, 06:40 PM
How is he in coverage?

I bet he could get up a pass rush.

ApaOps5
09-28-2008, 06:41 PM
Who said I was joking? If we lose and someone is not dead or injured, you simply don't care.

Ok that was funny. Sorry I will step off my high horse!

DenverBronkHoes
09-28-2008, 06:48 PM
i vote yes

Rex
09-28-2008, 06:49 PM
Chiefs 05 was pretty bad.

Italianmobstr7
09-28-2008, 06:53 PM
... Worthless sitting on the sidelines watching defense let an opponent march all over the field, eating up clock, giving up field goals....

not how it should be

Maybe the D wouldn't have been on the field all day if our offense didn't turn the ball over 4 times! Were you watching the same game? The Chiefs started on our side of the field at least 3 times due to a turnover, or terrible special teams. I'm not saying the D is good. I'm not. They're terrible, but give them a break today. It wasn't just the D's fault.

Broncolingus
09-28-2008, 06:54 PM
I think Denver is right where they 'should' be..

Some good players on offense...

...nothing on the Defensive line, thus year after year of these 'types' of games and seasons.

Until Denver get's a solid D-line, this is what we'll have, folks...

No issues...

DenverBronkHoes
09-28-2008, 06:55 PM
Maybe the D wouldn't have been on the field all day if our offense didn't turn the ball over 4 times! Were you watching the same game? The Chiefs started on our side of the field at least 3 times due to a turnover, or terrible special teams. I'm not saying the D is good. I'm not. They're terrible, but give them a break today. It wasn't just the D's fault.

turnovers.......... AND WE STILL HAD A CHANCE TO WIN

not when larry break 30+ yard runs... At that point ur have no shot of anything if the other teams can mow u dont at will......

Give someone a break

u blame Cutler.... Hes just running the plays that are called.....

BroncoJoe
09-28-2008, 06:55 PM
Jack Williams stunk it up today.

Italianmobstr7
09-28-2008, 06:59 PM
turnovers.......... AND WE STILL HAD A CHANCE TO WIN

not when larry break 30+ yard runs... At that point ur have no shot of anything if the other teams can mow u dont at will......

Give someone a break

u blame Cutler.... Hes just running the plays that are called.....

I don't blame Cutler. I blame our whole team. Jay made 2 bad decisions. Royal fumbled, Marshall fumbled. All of them are responsible. Dan Graham looked like trash today. We couldn't run the ball for anything. Our D couldn't get off the field, and with the exception of Prater our ST was crap. I'm not blaming any one player. We got punched in the mouth today by a team that is not as good as us, but that came prepared. It's a wake up game for us hopefully. We'll see if we can get the D corrected enough to hold someone under 30, because we know that our offense will be clicking again this season. It was 1 bad game, and I'm not too worried about it.

KCL
09-28-2008, 07:00 PM
How about our defense stop the only offensive weapon the Chefs have (LJ).

Yeah, our offense made it's mistakes, but to give up 200 yards to a player when you KNOW that the Chefs run 99% of the time is pathetic.

Particularly pathetic was the two big runs with about 2 minutes left when everybody in the galaxy knows that LJ is going to get the ball in order to kill the clock, the second one resulting in an "in your face" TD.

hey now...Bowe is no slouch and neither is Tony...was he in double coverage cause he sure didn't get the ball as much as he should have...but he did score that one TD.

TimBuff10
09-28-2008, 07:33 PM
You guys are nuts, the D played solid today. They could have played better, sure but KC could have easily had another 20 pts or so if it wasn't for good D forcing FGs.

Take our FOUR turnovers away and we win in a cakewalk like it should have been.

LawDog
09-28-2008, 07:49 PM
Jets vs. Cards final score was 56-35. I'm guessing there wasn't much in the way of defense in that game. Just saying...

ApaOps5
09-28-2008, 07:50 PM
You guys are nuts, the D played solid today. They could have played better, sure but KC could have easily had another 20 pts or so if it wasn't for good D forcing FGs.

Take our FOUR turnovers away and we win in a cakewalk like it should have been.

Sir the board is in bitch mode right now, I am going to have to ask you to refrain from speaking any sort of rationality. Thank You! ;)

dogfish
09-28-2008, 09:10 PM
You guys are nuts, the D played solid today. They could have played better, sure but KC could have easily had another 20 pts or so if it wasn't for good D forcing FGs.

Take our FOUR turnovers away and we win in a cakewalk like it should have been.

no. . . any time one guy rushes for 198 yards on you, the "D" most certainly did NOT play solid! you can't blame that on the turnovers. . . nor can you blame our total lack of a pass rush, once again, on turnovers. . . i'm sure we'll all agree that the final score would probably have been much different without the turnovers, but let's not sugarcoat just how bad this "D" really is. . . is it all their fault that we lost today? no, of course not. . . are they still completely terrible? yea, they are. . .

hamrob
09-29-2008, 10:08 AM
Look. They weren't prepared to play. Was it the coaches fault? The Players? The early start? Arrowhead? I think the answer was "All of the above". It's one loss and hopefully an eye opener for these young guys. "If you don't bring your A game every week...you lose!".

They were in the game until the very end...despite lack luster play and four turnovers. Had Larsen snared that onsides kick...who knows what would have happened.

The positive is that we had one of these games early on...so that (hopefully) we learn from it and don't make the same mistake twice.

Go Broncos!

eessydo
09-29-2008, 10:13 AM
No other reason than a complete lack of pride to get beaten like that by such a horrible team.

I don't care about the turnovers, no excuse not to stop anyone, EVER!

When LJ's "career resurgence" comments are laughed off by everyone as the ramblings of someone who "just played the broncos defense", just shows how little pride our defense has.

How do you allow people to talk about you like that and not do something about it?

Sad

DenverBronkHoes
09-29-2008, 10:13 AM
stop thinking so positive..... u will have a HUGE let down in the end....

were lucky if we win 9 games

jrelway
09-29-2008, 10:16 AM
its been ongoing for a couple years now. pretty sure bet we draft all defensive players. i dont care what offensive player is on the board. its damn painful to watch.

Shazam!
09-29-2008, 10:23 AM
As far as 'Drafting all Defense' goes, it's a change of the philosophy that Drafting DL-men needs to change. Instead of going for all the athletic and speed guys, they need more size and strength up front.

Champ is a GREAT CB, but they need so much more.

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 10:27 AM
Champ in the lockerroom said their preperation for this game during the week was crap and sucked.

I am extremely dissapointed with that. They basically looked past the Chiefs and it showed.

Mike
09-29-2008, 10:33 AM
Champ in the lockerroom said their preperation for this game during the week was crap and sucked.

I am extremely dissapointed with that. They basically looked past the Chiefs and it showed.

Not surprised. If anything, we all know that Shanahan's staff and the Broncos craps 2-3 games like this a season for the last several years.

jrelway
09-29-2008, 10:38 AM
Champ in the lockerroom said their preperation for this game during the week was crap and sucked.

I am extremely dissapointed with that. They basically looked past the Chiefs and it showed.

staff should have known its hard to win in KC. look at the skins cowboys game. divisiional high rivalry game and the broncos stunk it up.

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 10:58 AM
Should have known but didn't. Pissed me off when I heard that. Sometimes games like that turn into positives. A good reality check will do this young team some good.

56crash
09-29-2008, 10:59 AM
why is it so hard for people to grasp herm was a CB and what he did was look at what Cutler does well and take it away.... he had the FS were we were throwing the ball .... Cutler was stairing down the play almost ever time . there were WR or TE open on every play but cutler was throwing ropes to guys being coverd by 3 and 4 guys...

EastCoastBronco
09-29-2008, 10:59 AM
There were no surprises in this game.
-We know we have one of the shittiest defences in the league.
-We know that we are going to have to play pretty much mistake free ball to keep ahead of whoever we are playing.
-We know Shanny's abyssmal record in that red painted house of horrors....

We turned the ball over 4 freaking times in that red painted house of horrors because our guys thought that 3-0 meant we were invincible.(no matter if 2 of those victories were by the skin of our teeth). Heads got swelled, people got careless. You see it all the time. Look at Miami/New England last week. Cincy/New York last week. Dallas/Washington this week.
This game, as Traveller pointed out, had TRAP written all over it. As long time Broncos fans can attest, our Broncos have a long history of falling into said traps. Blame the defence if you want to for this one but remember that that same shitty D held a lot better Saints offence to 32 points. Take those turnovers out of the way and we win that thing walking away...
Bottom line of this rant...The same level of focus, discipline and intensity needs to be brought to the field week in and week out, regardless of the team we are playing.

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 11:18 AM
UGH that wide open Scheffler play made me very unhappy. Jay regressed to staring down again. Hope its just a hiccup!

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 11:30 AM
What I find funny is how arrowhead owns us to begin with. I hope we kick TB's ass this weekend so I can point and laugh at the idiots that are in full melt down mode. Sure our D lacking right now to say the least but 4 TO's on the road in a divison game to a team thats hungry as hell for a victory. I think my jury is still out personally.

haroldthebarrel
09-29-2008, 11:35 AM
What I find funny is how arrowhead owns us to begin with. I hope we kick TB's ass this weekend so I can point and laugh at the idiots that are in full melt down mode. Sure our D lacking right now to say the least but 4 TO's on the road in a divison game to a team thats hungry as hell for a victory. I think my jury is still out personally.

its rare to be even in a game with 4 turnovers so I am not worried about that.
Only a few teams can overcome those odds and those are imho somewhat lucky even.

But even though Webster had that excellent td where he called the blocks I have no faith in him as a MLB.

I don't know what to do. I fear a smart team like the Bucs. But I do know that if your veterans sucks, I would play the youngsters as they would at least improve with game time experience. (at least that is what I would do)

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 11:37 AM
its rare to be even in a game with 4 turnovers so I am not worried about that.
Only a few teams can overcome those odds and those are imho somewhat lucky even.

But even though Webster had that excellent td where he called the blocks I have no faith in him as a MLB.

I don't know what to do. I fear a smart team like the Bucs. But I do know that if your veterans sucks, I would play the youngsters as they would at least improve with game time experience. (at least that is what I would do)

I think we saw a little of that with Jack Williams yesterday. The kid is not ready IMHO

I'm by no means giving our D a pass as todate they dont deserve one. What I am not going to do is lose site of the fact we are division leaders and the O will carry us often enough to atleast attempt to make some adjustments on the D and see where we are when the smoke clears.

haroldthebarrel
09-29-2008, 11:44 AM
I think we saw a little of that with Jack Williams yesterday. The kid is not ready IMHO

I'm by no means giving our D a pass as todate they dont deserve one. What I am not going to do is lose site of the fact we are division leaders and the O will carry us often enough to atleast attempt to make some adjustments on the D and see where we are when the smoke clears.

Yeah, so it is a two edged sword with the defense. What I don't understand how we can score so much, make other team rely on the pass and still get no real pressure or turnovers. Why aren't Moss and Crowder improving? Why has Dumervil regressed?

Do you take a shot at the youngsters and hope they will improve by week ten or later so that we are a team playing well in the late season? Or on the other hand do you think that the system is well enough that when they gel they wont make the mental mistakes and play decently?
Those are the million dollar questions? Wish I had the answer but I don't.

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 12:07 PM
When Peterson & Engleburger and an undersized Dum are your starting DLIne your going to get run on. Get used to it folks. Someone dial me up some run blitz packages please.

56crash
09-29-2008, 12:15 PM
When Peterson & Engleburger and an undersized Dum are your starting DLIne your going to get run on. Get used to it folks. Someone dial me up some run blitz packages please.


the problem is we have no blitz packages . We really are in a bad place .


Even if we got Greg Robertson here today it would take weeks and weeks to fully get his Blitz packages in . We are stuck in a bad place IMO .:defense:

LoyalSoldier
09-29-2008, 12:17 PM
No other reason than a complete lack of pride to get beaten like that by such a horrible team.

I don't care about the turnovers, no excuse not to stop anyone, EVER!

When LJ's "career resurgence" comments are laughed off by everyone as the ramblings of someone who "just played the broncos defense", just shows how little pride our defense has.

How do you allow people to talk about you like that and not do something about it?

Sad

The thing is they did stop them! Up until for forth quarter they only allowed one TD and that was when KC started at the Denver 2. 4 out of 7 scoring drives for KC started inside Denver territory and 6 out of 13 drives started in Denver territory. Compare that to Denver's 1 out of 13 drives. Only one (yes one) drive by KC that resulted in a TD actually started deep in KC territory.

I don't care how good your defense is , they are going to give up points if you keep giving the ball away at mid field or closer to your goal.

We lost the field position battle horribly and a large part of that was our turnovers.

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 12:30 PM
Bring back Larry Coyer. The guys blitzing scheme was amazing.

Benetto
09-29-2008, 12:31 PM
Somebody go find GREG WILLIAMS!!!!!!!!!!

56crash
09-29-2008, 12:32 PM
Bring back Larry Coyer. The guys blitzing scheme was amazing.

LOL he will be back this week for sure :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Benetto
09-29-2008, 12:34 PM
Somebody go find GREG WILLIAMS!!!!!!!!!!


Nevermind, he's a fag...I mean Jag.

56crash
09-29-2008, 12:34 PM
Bring back Larry Coyer. The guys blitzing scheme was amazing.

his blitz scheem was good . Gregs was way better . it was not even close :defense:

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 12:36 PM
his blitz scheem was good . Gregs was way better . it was not even close :defense:

I know I was being sarcastic. I for one think this team needs to pick a coordinator and stick with them. 0 continuity equals suck.

56crash
09-29-2008, 12:36 PM
liten people Greg Robertson would help this team but here is the deal it would take two years .

56crash
09-29-2008, 12:38 PM
I know I was being sarcastic. I for one think this team needs to pick a coordinator and stick with them. 0 continuity equals suck.

that was in my next post ! Greg would help this team I hope the bridges were not burned completly :welcome:

turftoad
09-29-2008, 12:38 PM
I know I was being sarcastic. I for one think this team needs to pick a coordinator and stick with them. 0 continuity equals suck.

Zero talent = suck.

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 12:39 PM
Zero talent = suck.

yeah but talent loss also occurs when you change schemes and dump players and draft for that coordinators style only to drop him like a cheap prom date.

turftoad
09-29-2008, 12:41 PM
yeah but talent loss also occurs when you change schemes and dump players and draft for that coordinators style only to drop him like a cheap prom date.

Agreed. Gerard Warren is a perfect example. Boy could we use him now. :tsk:

Denver Native (Carol)
09-29-2008, 12:46 PM
that was in my next post ! Greg would help this team I hope the bridges were not burned completly :welcome:

Just found this article - does not sound like some at Syracuse are happy with Robinson.

http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2008/09/22/News/Students.Sell.AntiGreg.Robinson.TShirts-3443578.shtml

Three Syracuse University students have found a way to wear their disappointment in football head coach Greg Robinson.

Seniors Josh Shaw, Shawn O'Donoghue and Mike Zahler started making T-shirts this year that read "Greg Robinson Farewell Tour." The shirts have a list of this season's game dates and locations on the back.

"We had the idea a while ago to support our team by creating these shirts," said Shaw, a newspaper journalism and policy studies major and former Daily Orange staff writer. "We're all seniors, so we have been here through Coach Robinson's tenure. We feel like there is nothing we can do about our bad football season, but for the people who are still around, it's time for a change."

The three have sold nearly 200 shirts - printed by Holy Shirt company - to students and tailgaters. Publicity has stemmed from their Facebook group of 73 members and word of mouth.

Shaw has received a variety of public opinions on the shirts.

"We will walk around and people will yell to us, 'You have to believe in your team no matter what,'" he said. "We understand their opinions, but there are a lot of people out there who are really unhappy with how Greg Robinson has done things, and we are some of those people. We are expressing our frustration through the T-shirts."

People are also requesting Farewell Tour shirts for Athletic Director Daryl Gross, said Zahler, a political science, history and economics major.

Eric Gally, a 1988 Syracuse alumnus from Rockville, Md., said he doesn't blame Gross or Robinson for the team's losing streaks and had no problem with the shirts.

"I absolutely don't think there is anything wrong with students making these shirts," Gally said. "Students are paying customers and have the right to express their opinion."

Shaw, O'Donoghue and Zahler said they are the only ones selling the shirts, and that they came up with the idea on their own.

"Three guys have a blog and make and sell their own shirts that are similar," Shaw said.

But the students running the blog, idiotsonsports.com, have been making almost identical shirts to those made by Shaw, O'Donoghue and Zahler since Aug. 20 - several weeks before Shaw, O'Donoghue and Zahler began making their own.

One storeowner has a different take on the product.

"I believe selling shirts like that is a little beneath us," said Bill Nesler, one of the co-owners of Manny's SU Clothing. "Selling them is not in the interest of school spirit. We support our team no matter what. However, after Robinson is gone, we may have a different take on it."

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 12:59 PM
Bring back Larry Coyer. The guys blitzing scheme was amazing.

for the first half perhaps... after they make adjustments to the new stuff he is incapable to make adjustments to their adjustments..

silkamilkamonico
09-29-2008, 01:02 PM
Champ in the lockerroom said their preperation for this game during the week was crap and sucked.

I am extremely dissapointed with that. They basically looked past the Chiefs and it showed.

That's absolutely terrible. That defense shouldn't be overlooking anyone.

I seriously hope Shanahan cleans house this offseason and starts all over. From the defensive coordinator to the positional coaches, to the young players and old players. DJ Williams is the only player I care comes back.

Defense is a mentality that's developed throughout the course of practice, and it's clearly obvious that Denver hasn't had that mentality for some years now, and that starts with the person in charge of that side of the ball.

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 01:07 PM
That's absolutely terrible. That defense shouldn't be overlooking anyone.

I seriously hope Shanahan cleans house this offseason and starts all over. From the defensive coordinator to the positional coaches, to the young players and old players. DJ Williams is the only player I care comes back.

Defense is a mentality that's developed throughout the course of practice, and it's clearly obvious that Denver hasn't had that mentality for some years now, and that starts with the person in charge of that side of the ball.

Um I'd have to add Champ, Thomas, Dum, Bly just off the top of my head

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 01:13 PM
Um I'd have to add Champ, Thomas, Dum, Bly just off the top of my head


Champ, DJ, Thomas, IF we can find another hot shot DT then perhaps dummerville for a pass rushing specialist.. Maybe Boss and I've seen some decent plays out of him.. beyond that this D sucks Big time..


Bly is burnt more than he makes plays..

webster can't even keep his helmet on..

the safeties AHAHAHAHAHa

none of the DE's are worth keeping other for Back up potetnial..

silkamilkamonico
09-29-2008, 01:16 PM
Um I'd have to add Champ, Thomas, Dum, Bly just off the top of my head

This is my opinion with those guys.

Champ and Dre have a lot of money invested in them, and they are irrelevant without a solid dline. Shanahan needs to face the truth, and admit that for as nice as it has been with Champ, and he's still an elite CB, the Broncos defense just missed their window with him. CB is a position that is ineffective without a front 4. It will take a few years to build a front 4.

Find a way to trade CHamp to build that front 4, and have the pieces put in place for the next shutdown CB.

Dre Bly has been average at best with Denver. Not all his fault, but not worth anywhere near what he gets. 0 interceptions. He!!. he has 0 pass deflections.

Dumervil has 0 sacks this season, and 2 tackles. Denver still has pressure issues. Have defenses figured him out? His 1 great play was a result of him lining up offsides and getting away with it. I'm not impressed with him at all.


Thomas I can agree with.

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 01:17 PM
Champ, DJ, Thomas, IF we can find another hot shot DT then perhaps dummerville for a pass rushing specialist.. Maybe Boss and I've seen some decent plays out of him.. beyond that this D sucks Big time..


Bly is burnt more than he makes plays..

webster can't even keep his helmet on..

the safeties AHAHAHAHAHa

none of the DE's are worth keeping other for Back up potetnial..

I must admit Crowder & Moss make me wanna kick puppys right now. Yet I'll wait until the end of this season to make a final decission.

MLB & Safety are our 2 biggest issues this offseason IMHO

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 03:59 PM
This place is kind of depressing. I think I will go find my happy place by checking my stocks and 401k

LRtagger
09-29-2008, 04:15 PM
This place is kind of depressing. I think I will go find my happy place by checking my stocks and 401k

who do you have stock with that would make it your happy place? My stock is down 8 points since the beginning of the year :laugh:

and hopefully your 401k is with Bank of America

haroldthebarrel
09-29-2008, 04:15 PM
Why the heck start completely all over again on defense. That will be at least a two year plan, if not three considering all the free agents and draft choices that will have to pan out. Whats that, the fourth time in five years? or third?

Personally I would keep a core of players and then give my coordinator a three year with no firing guaranteed in those years.

LRtagger
09-29-2008, 04:28 PM
I seriously hope Shanahan cleans house this offseason and starts all over. From the defensive coordinator to the positional coaches, to the young players and old players.

Isn't that what he did this past offseason?

Maybe Shanny needs some help in the defensive talent evaluation department. He seems to constantly pick up other team's scrubs and think they can start for us. Half of our starting D is castoffs from other teams....and our DC hasnt been able to hold a job down since 1993.

What makes Shanny think these hacks can turn our defense around? At this point I wish we would have kept with Bates' scheme...maybe by now we would have "gotten it". Bates had to come into GB and right the ship that Slowdick sank.

But I hope Shanny sees that Slowdick isnt the answer. Let us not forget that Slowdick was "technically" the DC last season and I have a strong feeling he had alot to do with our second half of the season defense which sucked as well.

Just look what he did in Green Bay. He was their defensive backs coach for three years (2000-2003) and was promoted to defensive coordinator at which time he promptly turned their defense into one of the worst in the league...SOUND FAMILIAR?? Let's hope he gets only one year in Denver as he did in GB.

dogfish
09-29-2008, 04:33 PM
Why has Dumervil regressed?





i suspect that playing with a broken bone in his hand has limited his ability to use his full array of counter-moves effectively. . . .

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 04:49 PM
who do you have stock with that would make it your happy place? My stock is down 8 points since the beginning of the year :laugh:

and hopefully your 401k is with Bank of America

WaMu why?




it was a joke ;)

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 04:52 PM
Why the heck start completely all over again on defense. That will be at least a two year plan, if not three considering all the free agents and draft choices that will have to pan out. Whats that, the fourth time in five years? or third?

Personally I would keep a core of players and then give my coordinator a three year with no firing guaranteed in those years.

I think the "no firing guaranteed" is pushing it just a little but other then that your 100% correct IMO

Bolltfanbo
09-29-2008, 04:52 PM
..

Cutler will always be able to bail this team out, no matter how bad it looks... But he needs to be given the chance...

Like the extra chances Ed Hochuli gave Cutler? :)


Damn I thought the Bolts looked bad in the first half against the Sliver and Lack.. I watched your game and boy you guys got manhandled. Plus you failed to make any half time adjustments....
It definitely like it's going to be a shootout season for you guys with that D.

Just think where you would be without Ed's help. 2nd place with two division losses...

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 04:56 PM
i suspect that playing with a broken bone in his hand has limited his ability to use his full array of counter-moves effectively. . . .


Then why is he out there kick moss in the ass and let him play until Dumervil takes the slot back if ever.. He can't be any worse than and one handed DE IMO. If he is cut his ass.. let crowder play someone has to be better than a one armed/handed DE.

Worse comes to worse start bringing in DE bum of the week and see if someone sticks..

Dortoh
09-29-2008, 05:00 PM
Then why is he out there kick moss in the ass and let him play until Dumervil takes the slot back if ever.. He can't be any worse than and one handed DE IMO. If he is cut his ass.. let crowder play someone has to be better than a one armed/handed DE.

Worse comes to worse start bringing in DE bum of the week and see if someone sticks..

As far as I know Rice is availiable. :D

Seriously you have to think if were starting Dumervil its obvious that the other scrubs are trash. Dumervil should not be a starting DE in the NFL. He is a situational pass rusher. I figure his problems are more then just one thing.

1. Broken hand
2. Everydown player losing his burst from tackles leaning on him in rush game.
3. People are aware of him...ie he is not going to sneak up on anybody.
4. The rest of our trash scares nobody and he gets no help.

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 05:21 PM
Look. They weren't prepared to play. Was it the coaches fault? The Players? The early start? Arrowhead? I think the answer was "All of the above". It's one loss and hopefully an eye opener for these young guys. "If you don't bring your A game every week...you lose!".

They were in the game until the very end...despite lack luster play and four turnovers. Had Larsen snared that onsides kick...who knows what would have happened.

The positive is that we had one of these games early on...so that (hopefully) we learn from it and don't make the same mistake twice.

Go Broncos!

lots of fans, players and coaches that thought they could score at will.. found out yesterday that this is the real world.. even a crappy team like KC can light up your defense.. and their defense can take your game away by stopping the running game and putting some pressure on Jay..

Stuff like this is going to happen at least all of this year considering how many 1st-3rd year players are getting alot of minutes..

I've been saying all year 2009 and beyond should be our years.. I might have to amend that if we do not come up with a DL that can bring the heat..

Superchop 7
09-29-2008, 06:28 PM
hey now...Bowe is no slouch and neither is Tony...was he in double coverage cause he sure didn't get the ball as much as he should have...but he did score that one TD.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

You just can't quit talking about him...............can you ?

How about a Tony Gonzales for president thread ?

(kidding)

I'll take 3-1 though.

Denver27og
09-29-2008, 06:38 PM
I really really miss DW... i even think sending away foxworth for nothing is hurting us too

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 06:47 PM
I really really miss DW... i even think sending away foxworth for nothing is hurting us too

:lol:

We are talking about the same Foxworth who is sitting on the bench in Atlanta. The SAME foxworth that couldn't cover Al Davis if he played WR.

:lol:

Thanks with the loss and the economy plummeting I needed this.

LRtagger
09-29-2008, 06:50 PM
WaMu why?




it was a joke ;)

my sarcasm meter is broken

topscribe
09-29-2008, 07:01 PM
Cutler had two picks, but he passed for 361 yards. I remember when Joe
Namath had six (6) picks against a doormat Denver Broncos team . . . the
year the Jets won the Super Bowl.

BMarsh had a fumble (yes, it really was a fumble), but he had seven
receptions for 77 yards and a terrific TD.

Fast Eddie had his fumble, but he had nine receptions for 104 yards.

The defense could have done better, giving up 198 yards rushing, but it
was to one Larry Johnson. LJ is going to get a lot of yards this year, or he
should. Moreover, the Broncos began their defensive stands on an average
of the 46 yard line,, and they gave up all of 160 yards passing. And future
first ballot HOFer Tony Gonzalez had only three receptions.

The way I see it, the Broncos need Torain badly. And they need a fire-
breathing, tear-off-your-head-and-spit-down-your-neck MLB (Larsen?).
And they could use one more good pass rusher to complement Dumervil,
who is still good, but he has been alone and injured.

I remember when the coaches were saying the Broncos were only a couple
pieces away from the top. We now recognize that as all smoke and mirrors.
But with the team they have now, I really do believe they are a couple
pieces away. Maybe three or four. But they don't all stink. That's
ridiculous.

-----

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 07:03 PM
How much do you think missing Robertson hurt too. Pass rush still would have sucked but damn he misses a game and the run D gets gashed.

topscribe
09-29-2008, 07:05 PM
How much do you think missing Robertson hurt too. Pass rush still would have sucked but damn he misses a game and the run D gets gashed.

Yes, I forgot to mention him. But I thought of Robertson all through the game.

-----

Simple Jaded
09-29-2008, 07:09 PM
I really really miss DW... i even think sending away foxworth for nothing is hurting us too

Yeah, because you can never have enough whiny backup CB's, especially if the starters are healthy *knock on wood*......

dogfish
09-29-2008, 07:21 PM
The defense could have done better, giving up 198 yards rushing, but it
was to one Larry Johnson. LJ is going to get a lot of yards this year, or he
should.

-----


in three games before enver rolled into town, LJ had 58 carries for 217 yards (3.7 YPC) and 1 TD. . . in one game against enver, he had 28 carries for 198 yards (7.1 YPC) and 2 TDS. . . .


:frusty:


he's still a talented player, but KC isn't anything resembling a premier running attack-- except when they face us. . . if LJ could play enver every week he'd already be in the HOF. . . . :frusty:



with that out of my system, i do agree with your larger point-- we're a lot closer than we were a year or two ago, and we badly need a bigger running back that can grind out some tough yards (i hope torrain can be that guy). . . and as bad as the efense looks, i still think we have more talent than what we're showing-- maybe not a LOT more, granted, but i think a real DC and a quality DL or two could make them look an awful lot better. . . .

G_Money
09-29-2008, 08:16 PM
Why the heck start completely all over again on defense. That will be at least a two year plan, if not three considering all the free agents and draft choices that will have to pan out. Whats that, the fourth time in five years? or third?

Personally I would keep a core of players and then give my coordinator a three year with no firing guaranteed in those years.

Not THIS coordinator I wouldn't. :tsk:

Maybe Sean McDermott from Jim Johnson's staff in Philly, or Coyer back again, or Ron Rivera stolen from SD's 3-4 and back to our 4-3.

Somebody new and fresh and dynamic, somebody familiar to us and successful with us, or somebody with a chip on his shoulder and a great resume.

Not Slowik, who has never been successful anywhere. He doesn't get ANY guarantees from me.

~G

slim
09-29-2008, 08:19 PM
why is it so hard for people to grasp herm was a CB and what he did was look at what Cutler does well and take it away.... he had the FS were we were throwing the ball .... Cutler was stairing down the play almost ever time . there were WR or TE open on every play but cutler was throwing ropes to guys being coverd by 3 and 4 guys...

Herm is a retard.

Gunther, on the other hand, has had Shanny's number for years.

G_Money
09-29-2008, 08:27 PM
As far as I know Rice is availiable. :D

Seriously you have to think if were starting Dumervil its obvious that the other scrubs are trash. Dumervil should not be a starting DE in the NFL. He is a situational pass rusher. I figure his problems are more then just one thing.

1. Broken hand
2. Everydown player losing his burst from tackles leaning on him in rush game.
3. People are aware of him...ie he is not going to sneak up on anybody.
4. The rest of our trash scares nobody and he gets no help.

But there's nothing WRONG with situational guys. I'd love to have Doom available and fresh for passing downs when we're bringing the house.

But our problem is he isn't just a pass-rush specialist for us. He may actually BE our best run defending DE. :shocked: I mean, why else would he play so much?

We need better ends, but I have no faith we know how to draft them, so I want to STAY AWAY from that position, certainly with our first 2 picks in the draft.

I say add Will Smith or somebody of the like (he's still a FA in 09 from the Saints, right?).

Then get a coach who can use him as more than a paperweight. :coffee:

~G

WARHORSE
09-29-2008, 08:34 PM
Here is to the worst defense in the NFL. The worst defensive line, the worst linebackers, and the worst defensive backs. The only defensive players we have that are worth a shit are Champ and D.J. That is it, period, end of story. The Chiefs showed a blueprint to beat Denver handily without the offensive fireworks.... Run the ball, defend against the pass every down. Voila! Instant win. That look on Cutler's face was the realization that nothing he can do will make a difference, as every 6 will be matched within a minute or 2 by the other team. I have never faced this as a fan, not taking any comfort in a touchdown by the Denver offense. Because I know it will simply be matched by the opposing D. Disgraceful, shitty, crappy and unnacceptable. I could care less what a powerhouse we are on offense. I take pride in Defense, and right now I could not be more embarassed being a Denver fan.

Embarassed being a Denver fan?

Then go to Oakland, and dont let the door hit ya on the way out.

Say hi to Al-waterhead when you get there.:coffee:

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 09:10 PM
Wow I have lived through every superbowl loss besides the Cowboys and I have never been embarrassed to be called a Broncos Fan. Pretty pathetic.

slim
09-29-2008, 09:12 PM
Wow I have lived through every superbowl loss besides the Cowboys and I have never been embarrassed to be called a Broncos Fan. Pretty pathetic.

Yup, I have NEVER been embarrassed to fly the orange and blue....never will be.

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 09:12 PM
Cutler had two picks, but he passed for 361 yards. I remember when Joe
Namath had six (6) picks against a doormat Denver Broncos team . . . the
year the Jets won the Super Bowl.

BMarsh had a fumble (yes, it really was a fumble), but he had seven
receptions for 77 yards and a terrific TD.

Fast Eddie had his fumble, but he had nine receptions for 104 yards.

The defense could have done better, giving up 198 yards rushing, but it
was to one Larry Johnson. LJ is going to get a lot of yards this year, or he
should. Moreover, the Broncos began their defensive stands on an average
of the 46 yard line,, and they gave up all of 160 yards passing. And future
first ballot HOFer Tony Gonzalez had only three receptions.

The way I see it, the Broncos need Torain badly. And they need a fire-
breathing, tear-off-your-head-and-spit-down-your-neck MLB (Larsen?).
And they could use one more good pass rusher to complement Dumervil,
who is still good, but he has been alone and injured.

I remember when the coaches were saying the Broncos were only a couple
pieces away from the top. We now recognize that as all smoke and mirrors.
But with the team they have now, I really do believe they are a couple
pieces away. Maybe three or four. But they don't all stink. That's
ridiculous.

-----

the only reason that KC ONLY had 160 yards was because their QB was unable to throw the ball inbounds on at least 3 big plays.. WHO knows what it would have been had they not hugged the sidelines like they did..

Top our D can't stop the run and especially NOT the pass.

Just admit it.. unless Jay is spot on and no one drops/fumbles passes and we score 40+ points per game. And last but not least the ST steps up big time.. we are going to lose more than we win..


We can't expect the offense to play a perfect game 12 more times this year..

Optimism is great but call a spade a spade.. as it stands right now SHOULD we get to the playoffs with this D it is one and done..

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 09:17 PM
Yup, I have NEVER been embarrassed to fly the orange and blue....never will be.

I remember being a kid and tricker treating on Halloween. Walking from house to house asking for candy and the Broncos score. Indy was down then as the night went on Indy took the lead and eventually won. One of the last houses I hit were Colts fans. They laughed at me a kid. I came back egged their house and crapped on their porch.

Yeah I was a kid but I was never embarrassed to be a Broncos fan.

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 09:19 PM
Herm is a retard.

Gunther, on the other hand, has had Shanny's number for years.

Herm might be retard but his players when he gets them will play for him..
Got to admit the cupboard was mighty bare when he got there and talk about a rebuilding team this one is almost from the ground up..

What is left from Marty's old team TG and LJ? who was just starting to get the carries when marty left town.. All the others have been put out to pasture..


Sorry but Herm may not be a mikey but his players are at least ready each week..

slim
09-29-2008, 09:20 PM
:rofl: ... crapped on their porch... :rofl:

slim
09-29-2008, 09:21 PM
Herm might be retard but his players when he gets them will play for him..
Got to admit the cupboard was mighty bare when he got there and talk about a rebuilding team this one is almost from the ground up..

What is left from Marty's old team TG and LJ? who was just starting to get the carries when marty left town.. All the others have been put out to pasture..


Sorry but Herm may not be a mikey but his players are at least ready each week..

How was the cupboard bare when he got there?

MOtorboat
09-29-2008, 09:29 PM
Herm might be retard but his players when he gets them will play for him..
Got to admit the cupboard was mighty bare when he got there and talk about a rebuilding team this one is almost from the ground up..

What is left from Marty's old team TG and LJ? who was just starting to get the carries when marty left town.. All the others have been put out to pasture..


Sorry but Herm may not be a mikey but his players are at least ready each week..

Whoa...whoa...whoa...whoa....

OK...a couple of things. Shanahan has our players ready all the time, so let's stop that crap right now.

Secondly, LJ and TG may be Dick Vermeil's guys, they sure as hell aren't Schottenheimer guys. Schottenheimer left KC in 1998. Gonzalez was drafted in 1997...

And they WERE NOT ready to play in Weeks 1-3. Herm isn't even close to the coach Shanahan is, and it's ridiculous to even assert such.

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 09:29 PM
:rofl: ... crapped on their porch... :rofl:

Yep I took a big ol dump too. They were laughing at us kids. They deserved it!

MOtorboat
09-29-2008, 09:30 PM
Furthermore...when Vermeil left Herm came into the No. 2 offense in football and Herm tore it apart like a moron.

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 09:41 PM
How was the cupboard bare when he got there?


How many of his current team was there when he came to town:
cloquitt, TG, huard, surtain, waters and LJ.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/players/

He was left with an aging team at best and some folks that had not played much if at all 9 starts for LJ up till Herm came to town.

Almost everyone from the old regime has retired or been traded off mostly because they were a liability..

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 09:42 PM
Furthermore...when Vermeil left Herm came into the No. 2 offense in football and Herm tore it apart like a moron.

Think Marty was there between the two.. could be wrong..

MOtorboat
09-29-2008, 09:43 PM
Think Marty was there between the two.. could be wrong..

You are.

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 09:48 PM
Whoa...whoa...whoa...whoa....

OK...a couple of things. Shanahan has our players ready all the time, so let's stop that crap right now.

Secondly, LJ and TG may be Dick Vermeil's guys, they sure as hell aren't Schottenheimer guys. Schottenheimer left KC in 1998. Gonzalez was drafted in 1997...

And they WERE NOT ready to play in Weeks 1-3. Herm isn't even close to the coach Shanahan is, and it's ridiculous to even assert such.

Now I know your closer to KC than I but I was thinking marty went from KC to SAN.. in any account the cupboard was awfully bare when Herm came to town in 2006..


And I have to disagree with you on mikeys boys being ready to play each week and this past game obviously shows..

There are several games each year they are so full of themselves they lose the game because they were not ready either mentally or scheme wise....

I can point out most of the Florida games early each year for starters. .

On any given Sunday a team can lose and the Broncos do often when they should not have..

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 09:52 PM
You are.

Thats right Marty went to the redskins and then the announcing booth before going to SAN.. Thanks

MOtorboat
09-29-2008, 09:54 PM
Now I know your closer to KC than I but I was thinking marty went from KC to SAN.. in any account the cupboard was awfully bare when Herm came to town in 2006..


And I have to disagree with you on mikeys boys being ready to play each week and this past game obviously shows..

There are several games each year they are so full of themselves they lose the game because they were not ready either mentally or scheme wise....

I can point out most of the Florida games early each year for starters. .

On any given Sunday a team can lose and the Broncos do often when they should not have..

Herm inherited an incredible offense that included Trent Green, Tony Gonzalez, two hall-of-fame lineman and Larry Johnson, and subsequently destroyed it. Sure, they were aging, but without Al Saunders that offense was pathetic. This is year three of the Herm era, and its getting worse.

Compared to Kansas City, Denver is much more ready to go than KC, and that's what we were comparing. Except this past Sunday. One Sunday does not make a team.

I cannot agree with you more that Denver has continuously played down to their competition, and my father reminded me tonight how many times it has happened in my lifetime...BUT...Shanahan (it's Mike Shanahan, not "mikey", btw...sorry, but that's incredibly disrespectful, imo, and above you) is 10x the coach The Sperm is.

DenverBronkHoes
09-29-2008, 10:02 PM
offense has a good test against a solid Tbay defense....

again we SHOULD score more points... Earnest Graham will have a field day

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 10:08 PM
Herm inherited an incredible offense that included Trent Green, Tony Gonzalez, two hall-of-fame lineman and Larry Johnson, and subsequently destroyed it. Sure, they were aging, but without Al Saunders that offense was pathetic. This is year three of the Herm era, and its getting worse.

Compared to Kansas City, Denver is much more ready to go than KC, and that's what we were comparing. Except this past Sunday. One Sunday does not make a team.

I cannot agree with you more that Denver has continuously played down to their competition, and my father reminded me tonight how many times it has happened in my lifetime...BUT...Shanahan (it's Mike Shanahan, not "mikey", btw...sorry, but that's incredibly disrespectful, imo, and above you) is 10x the coach The Sperm is.

yes he had a great O bu tit was incredibly old.. Trent Green only played 8 games before being injured IIRC and since he was a already a 13 year vet at that time the future was not Trent an immobile QB at best.. the OLINE was one of the best NO DOUBT ABOUT it but also in the middle teens at the time. In fact I believe it was the gold standards for half a decade. But it got old and several retired.

Perhaps Mikey is a better schemer, but Herms players play for him and like the guy (not a universal term I've heard from alot of Broncos).. I've never heard anyone of them have a bad word about him..

On the rest we will have to agree to disagree..

MOtorboat
09-29-2008, 10:10 PM
yes he had a great O bu tit was incredibly old.. Trent Green only played 8 games before being injured IIRC and since he was a already a 13 year vet at that time the future was not Trent an immobile QB at best.. the OLINE was one of the best NO DOUBT ABOUT it but also in the middle teens at the time. In fact I believe it was the gold standards for half a decade. But it got old and several retired.

Perhaps Mikey is a better schemer, but Herms players play for him and like the guy (not a universal term I've heard from alot of Broncos).. I've never heard anyone of them have a bad word about him..

On the rest we will have to agree to disagree..

LOL...And Herm has won, if IIRC, one playoff game.

If you think Herm is a better coach than Shanahan there's absolutely no use even having this conversation, because that's a joke.

DenverBronkHoes
09-29-2008, 10:20 PM
LOL...And Herm has won, if IIRC, one playoff game.

If you think Herm is a better coach than Shanahan there's absolutely no use even having this conversation, because that's a joke.

ill take fisher or juron over shanny...........

i said this 2 years ago on the freak..... has nothing to do with their records now....

Im just sick of mike shannahan football... Its stale...

MOtorboat
09-29-2008, 10:21 PM
ill take fisher or juron over shanny...........

i said this 2 years ago on the freak..... has nothing to do with their records now....

Im just sick of mike shannahan football... Its stale...

That's not really the discussion, but Dick Jauron? Seriously? WTF?

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 10:23 PM
LOL...And Herm has won, if IIRC, one playoff game.

If you think Herm is a better coach than Shanahan there's absolutely no use even having this conversation, because that's a joke.

Just where in my posts do you see that I said he is a better coach than Mikey is..

Now if you really want to continue this this thread is not the place to do so you can either PM me or start another thread..


this one is really about the:

Worst defense in the NFL.

G_Money
09-29-2008, 10:24 PM
Yeah...I could see Fisher, but Jauron?

Ouch.

That's some Shanahan underappreciation right there. At least Shanny has mad skills on ONE side of the ball.

~G

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 10:28 PM
Yeah...I could see Fisher, but Jauron?

Ouch.

That's some Shanahan underappreciation right there. At least Shanny has mad skills on ONE side of the ball.

~G

Dick Juaron was he not a Defensive wiz bang guy?

Yes we could stand a whole bunch of that right now.. as a DC of course..

MOtorboat
09-29-2008, 10:29 PM
Just where in my posts do you see that I said he is a better coach than Mikey is..

Now if you really want to continue this this thread is not the place to do so you can either PM me or start another thread..


this one is really about the:

Worst defense in the NFL.

You have intimated the Herm is a better coach than Shanahan, and you have repeatedly used this stupid "mikey" label for Mike Shanahan, and sorry, but it's getting real freakin' old.

We get it, you think a Hall of Fame coach sucks. Could you tell us who you'd rather have as our coach?

Discussions take their course, the course is now the coaching...you made it so, actually, so I don't really appreciate the "let's get back on topic..." intimations, because I'm not the one who strayed. However, it is convenient if you plan on not backing up your argument, to fall back on that.

G_Money
09-29-2008, 10:29 PM
I guess I just want to know why we're the worst.

Our scheme obviously sucks.

Our DL is performing terribly and are mostly journeyman and underachieving kids.

But our LBs SHOULD be able to play decently. DJ and Boss have talent (DJ moreso), and Webster is not a good starter, but he's not the worst LB in the league.

Our safeties are awful in coverage but get better the closer they get to the line of scrimmage. They don't become GOOD, but they become adequate if used in the run game or the flat instead of against wide receivers.

And our corners have talent, but no one can hang with receivers as long as we ask them to.

Talent-wise you'd think we'd be middle-of the pack. 15-20. So is scheme knocking the other 10-15 spots off of us? Or just horrible placement of our talent? Is the fact that we have ZERO DL who can do anything instead of one DL and one good LB causing too many issues for the schemers to solve?

Knowing what we have and what we don't have, you'd think a scheme could be devised to help our corners and LBs make plays and cover up our Safety and DL weaknesses.

Are they just THAT bad that nothing can cover them up?

I still have trouble believing that, I guess.

~G

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 10:40 PM
You have intimated the Herm is a better coach than Shanahan, and you have repeatedly used this stupid "mikey" label for Mike Shanahan, and sorry, but it's getting real freakin' old.

We get it, you think a Hall of Fame coach sucks. Could you tell us who you'd rather have as our coach?

Discussions take their course, the course is now the coaching...you made it so, actually, so I don't really appreciate the "let's get back on topic..." intimations, because I'm not the one who strayed. However, it is convenient if you plan on not backing up your argument, to fall back on that.

mikey is a great offensive mind.. IMHO he sucks as a HC with the power he has.. We have sucked at the draft for as long as he has been here except for the past 3 years when something changed .. What I do not know, nor do I care as long as we do not take one handed WRs anymore..

IMO today there is no one better at offensive scheming than mikey (get used to it cause I'm gonna use it). But the rest of his responsibilities are not IMO up to that other standard..

I was trying to get this back on topic not trying in the least to avoid commenting on mikey.. nor avoiding the conversation.. I suspect while you ave been here for as long as you have really do not know me as well as the old mania folks do..

I rarely avoid discussions about passionate issues..

NOW IF you want to start another thread about mikey no problems, I'll come and chat with you about it at length if you want time permitting..

But this will be my last post in this thread about mikey vs other coaches..

If this thread continues it should be about the Worst defense in the NFL.

Lonestar
09-29-2008, 10:43 PM
I guess I just want to know why we're the worst.

Our scheme obviously sucks.

Our DL is performing terribly and are mostly journeyman and underachieving kids.

But our LBs SHOULD be able to play decently. DJ and Boss have talent (DJ moreso), and Webster is not a good starter, but he's not the worst LB in the league.

Our safeties are awful in coverage but get better the closer they get to the line of scrimmage. They don't become GOOD, but they become adequate if used in the run game or the flat instead of against wide receivers.

And our corners have talent, but no one can hang with receivers as long as we ask them to.

Talent-wise you'd think we'd be middle-of the pack. 15-20. So is scheme knocking the other 10-15 spots off of us? Or just horrible placement of our talent? Is the fact that we have ZERO DL who can do anything instead of one DL and one good LB causing too many issues for the schemers to solve?

Knowing what we have and what we don't have, you'd think a scheme could be devised to help our corners and LBs make plays and cover up our Safety and DL weaknesses.

Are they just THAT bad that nothing can cover them up?

I still have trouble believing that, I guess.

~G

overall I believe it to be more scheme and technique than lousy talent....

The Giants seem to find these gems in the alter rounds and make them into great players to superstars..

we should as someone commented hire the guy that is scouting for them.. and I added hire there DLINE coach.. Neither could hurt us much at this point..

MOtorboat
09-29-2008, 10:49 PM
mikey is a great offensive mind.. IMHO he sucks as a HC with the power he has.. We have sucked at the draft for as long as he has been here except for the past 3 years when something changed .. What I do not know, nor do I care as long as we do not take one handed WRs anymore..

IMO today there is no one better at offensive scheming than mikey (get used to it cause I'm gonna use it). But the rest of his responsibilities are not IMO up to that other standard..

I was trying to get this back on topic not trying in the least to avoid commenting on mikey.. nor avoiding the conversation.. I suspect while you ave been here for as long as you have really do not know me as well as the old mania folks do..

I rarely avoid discussions about passionate issues..

NOW IF you want to start another thread about mikey no problems, I'll come and chat with you about it at length if you want time permitting..

But this will be my last post in this thread about mikey vs other coaches..

If this thread continues it should be about the Worst defense in the NFL.

If you don't want the coach to be the discussion, don't make the post. Not my fault, so don't act as if it is my fault for you being called upon ridiculous statements.

The "mikey" moniker is disrespectful and completely below you, or so I thought. I guess I was wrong.

NOW, if YOU want to start a thread about it, go ahead...you're the one who made the assertions, not me.

ApaOps5
09-29-2008, 11:37 PM
Kudos to you MissouriBronc. Too many people call out Mike Shanahan when in reality if he were to leave tomorrow 31 other teams would consider hiring him. Teams are cyclical save the Detroits, Arizonas, and Chargers. They peak and rise. Shanahan has this team climbing the hill again. Not there yet but to fire him now would be the DUMBEST thing ever in Broncos history.

gobroncsnv
09-30-2008, 07:03 AM
I guess I just want to know why we're the worst.

Our scheme obviously sucks.

Our DL is performing terribly and are mostly journeyman and underachieving kids. no argument here

But our LBs SHOULD be able to play decently. DJ and Boss have talent (DJ moreso), and Webster is not a good starter, but he's not the worst LB in the league. Webster really has a knack for running himself out of a play... but does lead the league in losing his helmet

Our safeties are awful in coverage but get better the closer they get to the line of scrimmage. They don't become GOOD, but they become adequate if used in the run game or the flat instead of against wide receivers.
unfortunate truth, but most safeties in this league should have SOME cover skills. ours don't measure up.
And our corners have talent, but no one can hang with receivers as long as we ask them to. Champ could be easily put in the discussion of top corners in the league, Bly would shine more with a pass rush... he's reduced now to "keep em in front of you and make the tackle.

Talent-wise you'd think we'd be middle-of the pack. 15-20. I'll say 20 or worse before 15. If you had a fantasy league and had to pick defensive players, how many Broncos would you take??
So is scheme knocking the other 10-15 spots off of us? Or just horrible placement of our talent? Is the fact that we have ZERO DL who can do anything instead of one DL and one good LB causing too many issues for the schemers to solve?

Knowing what we have and what we don't have, you'd think a scheme could be devised to help our corners and LBs make plays and cover up our Safety and DL weaknesses.

Are they just THAT bad that nothing can cover them up?

I still have trouble believing that, I guess.

~G

I think we have a whole lot of guys starting on our D who would fit on other teams, at best, in rotation. As far as players, Champ is inarguable. Bly plays best when covered by scheme and talent on the Dline.

Boss gets somewhat of a pass, because he's still learning how he fits in, and getting over some wounds. DJ flows to the ball pretty well and makes tackles, and hopefully we're done moving him around. Webster makes tackles when he's around, but a whole lot of over-pursuit happens with him, and he becomes more a liability, and I doubt that the coaches ask him to do that.

I think we are all pretty much in full agreement on dline, but really, this is far too fundamental to let go, yet we have for 9 years running. For my money, I'd like to have seen what Coyer could have done with a pass rush, yet here we are again, going for the easier fix of blaming scheme. The real problem is, if you have to cover up your lack of talent with scheming, then the other guys' scheme can beat you. The Giants beat NE in the SB with a whole lot of talent. Now I'm not saying the Giants DC is an idiot (same for Jim Johnson in Philly), but his pass rush makes him a genius, much like Elway enhanced Shanny's mastermind status.

You covered the part about safeties with your comments on the dline... journeymen, not at all star status.

Run through our roster, and I doubt there's ANY you would put in your top 10, if you drafted for D in FF (just Champ?). We tuned up our offense by adding some pretty darned good players, with most of the additions being rookies and second year types. The guys we added on D can't keep me from yawning, so far.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-30-2008, 10:20 AM
http://cbs4denver.com/sports/broncos.chiefs.kansas.2.828854.html

Broncos Defense Giving Up Nearly 30 Points A Game

DENVER (AP) ― Broncos coach Mike Shanahan intervened on behalf of his disparaged defensive players Monday, taking umbrage at placing the blame on them for the Kansas City loss.

They weren't the culprits in this case.

"Any offense that does that to a defense, there's no chance," Shanahan said of the Broncos' 33-19 loss in which the offense turned the ball over four times. "People will point to the defense, but that's so far from the truth."

The defense appreciates Shanahan's support, but knows the truth -- they had a chance to bail out the offense and didn't.

"I'm disappointed. We could've played better," safety Marlon McCree said. "The thing about a loss like that is it humbles you and makes you focus and tighten things up."

The Broncos (3-1) need to fix their leaky defense -- fast. They're giving up nearly 30 points a game and 408.8 yards of offense.

The team is trying everything from changing the alignment -- throwing in a four-linebacker look from time to time -- to tinkering with new personnel, cutting Hamza Abdullah and adding Vernon Fox, who didn't dress Sunday.

So far, this defense appears no different than the one from a year ago, which finished near the bottom of the league and led to a parting of ways with defensive boss Jim Bates.

"We've got to find a way to be more consistent," Dre' Bly said. "Defensively, we haven't had the year we want to have."

Not by any stretch. Not by any stat. Denver has the third-worst defense in the league.

"We've got to play better," Shanahan said. "We've got some work to do. But it was not quite as bad as it looked in those final stats."

Make no mistake, though, the final defensive stats against Kansas City weren't dazzling.

The Broncos surrendered just 160 yards through the air, an improvement for a defense that entered the game ranked last in the league against the pass.

However, Larry Johnson ripped through them, gaining 198 yards and scoring two touchdowns. The Chiefs had a season-best 213 yards rushing on the afternoon.

The lapse against the run was a jolt to the team, which hadn't allowed a 100-yard rusher this season until Johnson.

"We didn't do our normal (thing) in the running game," Bly said. "The first three weeks I think we did a pretty good job in the run."

Then again, the Broncos jumped out to big leads in winning their first three games, forcing teams to throw to get back into the game.

But the Broncos' top-ranked offense staked the defense to nothing Sunday, even putting them in an early bind with two first-half fumbles.

"They definitely kept us in the game," Tony Scheffler said of the defense's effort.

That's because the offense feels like there's no deficit they can't overcome, turnovers aside that is. Eddie Royal and Brandon Marshall coughed up the football and Jay Cutler threw two interceptions, putting added pressure on an already struggling defense.

However, the Chiefs scored only 10 points off Denver's miscues.

"We did a good job of staying focused when we had short fields," Bly said.

That's why Shanahan defended his maligned defense.

Now, he'd like to see more improvement.

"I sure hope so," he said. "Yeah, we'll be better."

Notes: Broncos RB Andre Hall was wearing a brace on his sprained right wrist Monday. He said it was feeling good and expected to play on Sunday as Denver hosts Tampa Bay. ... Shanahan and the Broncos will see a familiar face guiding the Buccaneers as Brian Griese comes to town. Griese was drafted by Denver in the third round in 1998. "I've always enjoyed Brian," Shanahan said. "He is as smart as they come." ... Shanahan said WR Clifford Russell saw a neurosurgeon on Monday. He was walking around the locker room before the team's light workout Monday. Russell was immobilized and taken off the field on a stretcher Sunday after spraining his neck on kickoff coverage. He flew back with the team.

Lonestar
09-30-2008, 11:11 AM
The only reason no one ran on this d earlier was because of the big leads we came out with.. Had that not been the case with our inability last year to stop the run there is no doubt in anyones mind that we would have seen a lot more run attempts during those games..

While we had made some stops I truly believe it was a matter of time before someone had a break out, no make that a break away game..

Why you ask? because we have done nothing really to consistently fix the real problem. We got a damaged DT, we got a back up MLB that can beat out a hack. We thought John Lynch was a liability and drafted a late round replacement for him while signing to cast aways from other teams that IMO suck..

We fired a proven DC that was expected to work miracles with three rookies and a bunch of other DL losers and brought in a total loser to replace him because mikey likes him (read he is a brown nose yes man)..

Until they bring in a PROVEN DL coach and some one that can evaluate college kids we will suffer the SSDD, someone that will not wilt under mikeys stare. But folks we all know that mikey will not knowingly/willingly surround himself with experienced staff winners..

He wants Yes men.. wants no one that can take any of the limelight from the mastermind..

dogfish
09-30-2008, 02:18 PM
I say add Will Smith or somebody of the like (he's still a FA in 09 from the Saints, right?).



~G


unfortunately, he's not-- they signed him to a big extension before the season started. . . .

Northman
09-30-2008, 02:21 PM
The only reason no one ran on this d earlier was because of the big leads we came out with.. Had that not been the case with our inability last year to stop the run there is no doubt in anyones mind that we would have seen a lot more run attempts during those games..

While we had made some stops I truly believe it was a matter of time before someone had a break out, no make that a break away game..

Why you ask? because we have done nothing really to consistently fix the real problem. We got a damaged DT, we got a back up MLB that can beat out a hack. We thought John Lynch was a liability and drafted a late round replacement for him while signing to cast aways from other teams that IMO suck..

We fired a proven DC that was expected to work miracles with three rookies and a bunch of other DL losers and brought in a total loser to replace him because mikey likes him (read he is a brown nose yes man)..

Until they bring in a PROVEN DL coach and some one that can evaluate college kids we will suffer the SSDD, someone that will not wilt under mikeys stare. But folks we all know that mikey will not knowingly/willingly surround himself with experienced staff winners..

He wants Yes men.. wants no one that can take any of the limelight from the mastermind..


Im still pissed that Alex Gibbs is gone. Hell, i would almost take back Ray Rhodes at this point.

Lonestar
09-30-2008, 04:06 PM
Im still pissed that Alex Gibbs is gone. Hell, i would almost take back Ray Rhodes at this point.

was not anything wrong with Ray IIRC other than he did not like taking orders from a former fellow assistant coach..

Simple Jaded
09-30-2008, 07:36 PM
unfortunately, he's not-- they signed him to a big extension before the season started. . . .

http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2008/06/will_smith_signs_contract_exte.html

Yep......

dogfish
09-30-2008, 08:03 PM
was not anything wrong with Ray IIRC other than he did not like taking orders from a former fellow assistant coach..


that, and he was a freakin' horrible defensive coordinator that wouldn't call a blitz to save his life. . . he was the master of the bend and then break defense. . . remember that monday night game where gannon completed like twenty passes in a row and rhodes STILL wouldn't bring any pressure? i almost cried for joy the day he got canned. . . .

Npba900
09-30-2008, 09:04 PM
Here is to the worst defense in the NFL. The worst defensive line, the worst linebackers, and the worst defensive backs. The only defensive players we have that are worth a shit are Champ and D.J. That is it, period, end of story. The Chiefs showed a blueprint to beat Denver handily without the offensive fireworks.... Run the ball, defend against the pass every down. Voila! Instant win. That look on Cutler's face was the realization that nothing he can do will make a difference, as every 6 will be matched within a minute or 2 by the other team. I have never faced this as a fan, not taking any comfort in a touchdown by the Denver offense. Because I know it will simply be matched by the opposing D. Disgraceful, shitty, crappy and unnacceptable. I could care less what a powerhouse we are on offense. I take pride in Defense, and right now I could not be more embarassed being a Denver fan.

Here's my observation:

Defensively, Denver just needs to play the rest of the season with pride and aggressiveness to build on the remainder of the season and build for next season, as well as develop an identity.

I don't understand the logic of Slowick allowing opposing Defenses to just nickel and dime his defense up and down the field. This only allows Denver's defense to eventually tire by the 3rd qtr and 4th anyway; and more importantly it keeps Cutler and the offense off the Field!!!

Slowick needs to just scrape the Zone Defense crap and stop allowing CB's to play 5 and 10 yards off receivers. Our CB's don't have the luxury of playing that far of the WR's b/c Denver doesn't have a pass rush! And if the CB's complain (Bly or Bailey), Slowick just needs to say "Sorry" until we get a Pass Rush established you guys are on an island and gotta suck it up!

How many pass interferance flags do Champ and Bly or our Safeties get over the last 4 games. Hardly any if any at all. Our secondary plays soft and is constantly out of the play or late on arrival. How many occasions did Royal, Stokely, Marshall take HARD HITS after the catch!!! The Qweefs secondary came to play and played like WARRIORS.

Slowick just needs to tell his Defense that for the remainder of the season the CB's will play bump and run, the line linebackers and/or safeties will blitz with reckless abandon when called upon (should have worked on this during Training Camp), and the Defensive linemen will pen their ears back and rush the QB with reckless abandon.

Who the hell cares at this point! so what if our corners get beat with long passes for TD's; who cares if opposing RB's rip off long runs! At least in the end this Defense will develop an identity and attitude for getting after the QB and playing in your face Defense. At least opposing teams will have known they were in a game and had to earn everything.

Make the team develop a realization and that they are all in this together. Champ needs to be the leader in the secondary and jump in his teammates grill for missing assignments and tackle. Same goes for DJ with the linebackers be the freaking leader---jump in the Linebackers face for over playing, missing tackles, and being out of position. Dumervil needs to step up and assume the leadership on the D Line, and once again jump in the faces of his D line teammates for only using bull rush techniques when rushing the QB and taking plays off. Dumervil needs to demand his D line teammates start incorporating "the swim moves or spin moves" when rushing the QB.

Hell when has this team received any flags for hitting the QB late!!!! Where's the freaking aggression and passion! One sign it shows when this Def. Line doesn't receive any late hit flags on the QB.....THEY ARE GIVING UP ON PLAYS AND THEY DON'T HAVE A MEAN STREAK!!!

The Def. line and line backers need to Hit the QB late so at least they know whats like to touch the QB. At this rate the Def. Line is going, some of the players will play the entire season w/o even sniffing sacking the QB.....by hitting the QB late, at least they can claim...hey at least I got my hands on the QB....Its pathetic I know to have that type of attitude.... but hey, at least its a start.

I'm NOT talking about a career ending late hits on the QB or a Def player getting huge fines/suspensions for late hits, but how about slapping down on the QB's shoulder after the pass or pushing/knocking the the QB down? Do it early in the 1st qtr so it doesn't impact the out come of the game JUST DO SOMETHING!!

Hell, how many cheap shots did Cutler take against the Chiefs? I counted at least two late hits. This infraction alone should have infuriated Denver's pass rushers!!!! Ya dont' let your Franchise QB take late hits w/o retaliating.

Back in the 80's this crap would not have happened!

Then on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday on film day, Slowick and his position coaches on Defense need to rip into the players who played like crap...didn't show up, took plays off, played out of position, took bad angles on tackles. And as for the Special team play........those guys shouldn't even fly on the same plane with the rest of the team. They should be riding on "GREY HOUND" or Car Pooling to games.

Randy Gradishar was right! Denver's training camp is like "CLUB MED" and the Players reflect their Training Camp when the Real Season Starts!!

DenverBronkHoes
09-30-2008, 11:13 PM
I guess I just want to know why we're the worst.

Our scheme obviously sucks.

Our DL is performing terribly and are mostly journeyman and underachieving kids.

But our LBs SHOULD be able to play decently. DJ and Boss have talent (DJ moreso), and Webster is not a good starter, but he's not the worst LB in the league.

Our safeties are awful in coverage but get better the closer they get to the line of scrimmage. They don't become GOOD, but they become adequate if used in the run game or the flat instead of against wide receivers.

And our corners have talent, but no one can hang with receivers as long as we ask them to.

Talent-wise you'd think we'd be middle-of the pack. 15-20. So is scheme knocking the other 10-15 spots off of us? Or just horrible placement of our talent? Is the fact that we have ZERO DL who can do anything instead of one DL and one good LB causing too many issues for the schemers to solve?

Knowing what we have and what we don't have, you'd think a scheme could be devised to help our corners and LBs make plays and cover up our Safety and DL weaknesses.

Are they just THAT bad that nothing can cover them up?

I still have trouble believing that, I guess.

~G

seriously tho G.... nate webster is definately the worst ILB in the league... i never disagree with u

broncophan
10-01-2008, 12:00 AM
Wasn't it just like.....2 years ago...... when the broncos defense didn't even give up a touchdown until the 4th or 5th game of the season???........it doesn't take long for things to change.....and yes, I realize there are players on the defense now that were not here two years ago......just amazing how quickly things change,,

weazel
10-01-2008, 12:09 AM
I woke up in a cold sweat, screaming last night, I had the worst nightmare ever! Then I seen highlights of the game again this morning and realized it wasn't a nightmare.

The sad thing is, they look so horrible, that I don't think there is any way to fix things.

slim
10-01-2008, 12:13 AM
Where is Larry Coyer?

Oh, that's right...we will see him soon.

fcspikeit
10-01-2008, 12:23 AM
It's clearly the offenses fault we lost!

If Jay wouldn't had made the 2 bad throws we would have won.

If Jay had thrown for 6 TD's we would have won.

If Marshall had caught 18 balls we would have won.

If Marshall hadn't made the one bad play (fumble) we would have won.

If Royal had caught 4 TD's we would have won.

If Royal hadn't made the one bad play (fumble) we would have won.

Does that sound about right? :confused:

How is it the few good players on our team get blamed for losing because of a couple bad plays, yet the 80% of losers on our D only make 2 good plays a game and it not be their fault?

This isn't the first terrible game by our D. We would be 1-3 right now if our offence hadn't played lights out and bailed the D out.

We can't expect Cutler and co to score 38+ every freaking game. At some point we need our defense to help win a game. God forbid bail our offense out and win us a game.

Right now I can think of no other D I would rather face then ours. If we could play our D each week, we would go 19-0

broncophan
10-01-2008, 12:28 AM
It's clearly the offenses fault we lost!

If Jay wouldn't had made the 2 bad throws we would have won.

If Jay had thrown for 6 TD's we would have won.

If Marshall had caught 18 balls we would have won.

If Marshall hadn't made the one bad play (fumble) we would have won.

If Royal had caught 4 TD's we would have won.

If Royal hadn't made the one bad play (fumble) we would have won.

Does that sound about right? :confused:

How is it the few good players on our team get blamed for losing because of a couple bad plays, yet the 80% of losers on our D only make 2 good plays a game and it not be their fault?

This isn't the first terrible game by our D. We would be 1-3 right now if our offence hadn't played lights out and bailed the D out.

We can't expect Cutler and co to score 38+ every freaking game. At some point we need our defense to help win a game. God forbid bail our offense out and win us a game.

Right now I can think of no other D I would rather face then ours. If we could play our D each week, we would go 19-0

Yep.......

*off topic:And I enjoy reading your posts just to look at Charlize Theron's picture...:D...:beer:......:eek:

frenchfan
10-01-2008, 12:57 AM
About our D, I think I have a great deal to be better :
Keep Champ & DJ and take Steelers or Ravens or Giants DLine and 2 good LB...

I'd rather playing with 7 guys on D than with our current D :coffee:

Don't you think it's a great deal guys? :D

:defense:

OK... I stop the sarcasms here... After all, before blaming a D, we should at least have one... No? :confused: :laugh:

DenverBronkHoes
10-01-2008, 08:01 AM
bush league defense

its boring, its lame, its conservative, honestly its like no other in the NFL....

its nice to see a 3-4..... but if u just change how many guys are on the line, and DONT ACTUALLY scheme around a 3-4...... ??

this D should change every week till we get it right...

WhatEver!!!
10-01-2008, 04:39 PM
I like the initial idea of having all DTs on the line for the running downs and sub in DEs for passing downs. Always have 7 guys crowding the line; drop back whoever and rush the rest. Like the Steelers.

Question-- could someone explain what a 46 defense is and if it could help us out??

atwater27
10-20-2008, 09:01 PM
Fire slowik and I'm about to say fire shanahan. I've had it with shitty, undersized defenses getting pushed around by (insert team here). Done. Our offensive coordinator sucks ass too. Fire him. I'm done. I can't even watch my boys play anymore.

One of the worst feelings I have ever had as a Bronco fan. Watching a coach call a 2 runs on 4th down because he is 100 percent sure he will get a 1st or more. I'm done. Screw the coaches and screw Shanahan.

topscribe
10-20-2008, 11:56 PM
Fire slowik and I'm about to say fire shanahan. I've had it with shitty, undersized defenses getting pushed around by (insert team here). Done. Our offensive coordinator sucks ass too. Fire him. I'm done. I can't even watch my boys play anymore.

One of the worst feelings I have ever had as a Bronco fan. Watching a coach call a 2 runs on 4th down because he is 100 percent sure he will get a 1st or more. I'm done. Screw the coaches and screw Shanahan.

I went through 14 long years with the Broncos before I saw a winning
season. That's their first 14 years in existence. You might want to jump off
the bandwagon, but I'm not going to.

Just saying . . .

-----

theVANCE
10-21-2008, 07:04 AM
I'm embarrassed to be a Broncos fan in the Northeast this morning.. What a ******' joke this team is. :(

Retired_Member_001
10-21-2008, 07:05 AM
Fire slowik and I'm about to say fire shanahan. I've had it with shitty, undersized defenses getting pushed around by (insert team here). Done. Our offensive coordinator sucks ass too. Fire him. I'm done. I can't even watch my boys play anymore.

One of the worst feelings I have ever had as a Bronco fan. Watching a coach call a 2 runs on 4th down because he is 100 percent sure he will get a 1st or more. I'm done. Screw the coaches and screw Shanahan.

I understand being pissed dude, but it's not time to jump ship yet. We have no chance at a Championship this year, or a run in the playoffs for that matter, but we are still a decent team. Fix the defense next off season and we are a much better team.

I say fire Shanahan the GM, fire our DC and make Jeremy Bates the proper OC.

Broncolingus
10-21-2008, 07:09 AM
I'm embarrassed to be a Broncos fan in the Northeast this morning.. What a ******' joke this team is. :(

...certainly true for the 'character' of the defense.

broncofaninfla
10-21-2008, 07:38 AM
It's clearly the offenses fault we lost!

If Jay wouldn't had made the 2 bad throws we would have won.

If Jay had thrown for 6 TD's we would have won.

If Marshall had caught 18 balls we would have won.

If Marshall hadn't made the one bad play (fumble) we would have won.

If Royal had caught 4 TD's we would have won.

If Royal hadn't made the one bad play (fumble) we would have won.

Does that sound about right? :confused:

How is it the few good players on our team get blamed for losing because of a couple bad plays, yet the 80% of losers on our D only make 2 good plays a game and it not be their fault?

This isn't the first terrible game by our D. We would be 1-3 right now if our offence hadn't played lights out and bailed the D out.

We can't expect Cutler and co to score 38+ every freaking game. At some point we need our defense to help win a game. God forbid bail our offense out and win us a game.

Right now I can think of no other D I would rather face then ours. If we could play our D each week, we would go 19-0

The TEAM sucked last night. Offense and defense. There isn't a team in the NFL that wouldn't have spanked us last night.

Flatinum
10-21-2008, 09:52 AM
It's hard to believe but this year's defense is actually worst than last years.

They need "talent" every where except for a couple of positions. DJ and Champ are obvious, Thomas and Dumervil are decent young players. After that anyone else can go.

They need 3 new safeties - (2 starters and a back up). I've never seen a worst set of safeties in all my time watching football. Lowry isn't even a back up on most teams but he's a starter on this rotten defense.

ILB - is another position where the Broncos have a Special Teamer as their starter. I could go on but it is what it is - rotten.

It's going to take a few drafts and "smart" signings to fix this mess. Luckily the offense has some good young pieces in place and will only get better with more experience.

How about Jamie Winborn with the big grin on his face in the huddle after he made that bonehead move (facemask) in the endzone on the 3 and long with the game only 13-0 at that point. That's the problem with this team.

NightTrainLayne
10-21-2008, 10:00 AM
How about Jamie Winborn with the big grin on his face in the huddle after he made that bonehead move (facemask) in the endzone on the 3 and long with the game only 13-0 at that point. That's the problem with this team.

Or his celebration after assisting on the sack later! Without that face-mask penalty we're still in the game, but he wants to celebrate a sack after we're down by over 20 points! Get a life loser.

turftoad
10-21-2008, 10:27 AM
As to the thread title.

YES, WE ARE.

Broncolingus
10-21-2008, 10:29 AM
As to the thread title.

YES, WE ARE.

In almost every way you can measure it...

topscribe
10-21-2008, 11:01 AM
"Attitudes stink out there." So said Champ Bailey.

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?id=48242@kcnc.dayport.com

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broncofaninfla
10-21-2008, 02:44 PM
I honestly think this is the worst defense Denver has ever fielded. EVERY offense dominates us.

haroldthebarrel
10-21-2008, 03:11 PM
How the hell is it even possible to have six sacks against a team that basically just come here to run, ran all over us, and made us one dimensional.
I mean, I know we blitzed and that was the reason, but what the hell man?

I mean, there is no consistency here at all!