Trading Down

[vandammage13]

I've seen some of the latest mock drafts slating Buffalo to pick Cam Newton at #3 (Walterfootball.com, Mel Kiper). Perhaps there could be some other teams who may want to jump ahead of Buffalo and trade for our #2 pick to get Newton.

Some of the possibilities that I see with teams that may be looking to draft a QB:

Cincinatti (#4) - If they trade Palmer then they may be looking to draft someone and they would certainly have the ammunition to trade up if they do indeed part ways with Palmer

Arizona (#5) - Their QB situation is laughable, and if they fall in love with Newton, then perhaps they will be looking to move ahead of Buffalo

San Francisco (#7) - They are probably ready to give up on Alex Smith, so they are another team that may be in the market for a QB.

Tennessee (#8) - Vince Young will be gone, yet another team with a hole at QB.

Washington (#10) - McNabb is gone, and no one believes Sexy Rexy will be the long term guy there.

Minnesota (#12) - Favre is gone(?), and TJax will be too. Joe Webb is not an option there IMO.

All it takes is one of these teams to absolutely fall in love with Cam Newton and have enough fear that Buffalo will grab him. I wouldn't mind trading down from the #2 pick since we have so many holes to fill. Maybe we can get another 2nd rounder by trading down. Couple that with a possible Orton trade and we'll have some serious ammo in this draft giving us the ability to fill a lot of gaps on this team immediately.

It would be nice to draft a stud like Fairley or Bowers, but we need so much help on Defense, I think we might be better off getting 2 or 3 solid guys as opposed to 1 superstar.

[PAINTERDAVE]

All player trades are subject to a new CBA getting done before the draft...

I really hope that happens...
the Broncos need this off season more than any other team in the league...

Good idea to trade down.... if it works.

AND.. we could still get a stud if the right team trades with us...
say Arizona or Cin

[Buff]

Mods, please lock this thread as everyone knows there is no chance any team will trade for the #2 pick. TIA.

[vandammage13]

All player trades are subject to a new CBA getting done before the draft...I really hope that happens...
the Broncos need this off season more than any other team in the league...

Good idea to trade down.... if it works.

AND.. we could still get a stud if the right team trades with us...
say Arizona or Cin

Yeah, a couple of these possibilities hinge on the CBA getting done prior to the draft, but others are still possible without a CBA in place.

[vandammage13]

Mods, please lock this thread as everyone knows there is no chance any team will trade for the #2 pick. TIA.

A guy can dream, can't he?

[underrated29]

please search.


"u29 better than north and socal mock draft"

[cuzz4169]

The more & more I watch this kid the more I love him. He is so explosive...He could be our new WLB. I say he's the next Derrick Thomas. Just look at how fast he gets off the ball...you can't teach that, that is special.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnZSceCN5Yg

I'd take him over Bowers any day. not just a 1 yr wonder 2009 17 sacks, 2010 11 sacks but asked to do more as a complete LB.

[rcsodak]

I've seen some of the latest mock drafts slating Buffalo to pick Cam Newton at #3 (Walterfootball.com, Mel Kiper). Perhaps there could be some other teams who may want to jump ahead of Buffalo and trade for our #2 pick to get Newton.

Some of the possibilities that I see with teams that may be looking to draft a QB:

Cincinatti (#4) - If they trade Palmer then they may be looking to draft someone and they would certainly have the ammunition to trade up if they do indeed part ways with Palmer

Arizona (#5) - Their QB situation is laughable, and if they fall in love with Newton, then perhaps they will be looking to move ahead of Buffalo

San Francisco (#7) - They are probably ready to give up on Alex Smith, so they are another team that may be in the market for a QB.

Tennessee (#8) - Vince Young will be gone, yet another team with a hole at QB.

Washington (#10) - McNabb is gone, and no one believes Sexy Rexy will be the long term guy there.

Minnesota (#12) - Favre is gone(?), and TJax will be too. Joe Webb is not an option there IMO.

All it takes is one of these teams to absolutely fall in love with Cam Newton and have enough fear that Buffalo will grab him. I wouldn't mind trading down from the #2 pick since we have so many holes to fill. Maybe we can get another 2nd rounder by trading down. Couple that with a possible Orton trade and we'll have some serious ammo in this draft giving us the ability to fill a lot of gaps on this team immediately.

It would be nice to draft a stud like Fairley or Bowers, but we need so much help on Defense, I think we might be better off getting 2 or 3 solid guys as opposed to 1 superstar.
Orton/palmer will still be on their rosters if no cba deal is reached. Plus, if they do get it done, trades might be too late for this year. And you might want to add Oak to your list. Just sayin.
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[vandammage13]

Orton/palmer will still be on their rosters if no cba deal is reached. Plus, if they do get it done, trades might be too late for this year. And you might want to add Oak to your list. Just sayin.
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Refer to post #4....

[TXBRONC]

I've seen some of the latest mock drafts slating Buffalo to pick Cam Newton at #3 (Walterfootball.com, Mel Kiper). Perhaps there could be some other teams who may want to jump ahead of Buffalo and trade for our #2 pick to get Newton.

Some of the possibilities that I see with teams that may be looking to draft a QB:

Cincinatti (#4) - If they trade Palmer then they may be looking to draft someone and they would certainly have the ammunition to trade up if they do indeed part ways with Palmer

Arizona (#5) - Their QB situation is laughable, and if they fall in love with Newton, then perhaps they will be looking to move ahead of Buffalo

San Francisco (#7) - They are probably ready to give up on Alex Smith, so they are another team that may be in the market for a QB.

Tennessee (#8) - Vince Young will be gone, yet another team with a hole at QB.

Washington (#10) - McNabb is gone, and no one believes Sexy Rexy will be the long term guy there.

Minnesota (#12) - Favre is gone(?), and TJax will be too. Joe Webb is not an option there IMO.

All it takes is one of these teams to absolutely fall in love with Cam Newton and have enough fear that Buffalo will grab him. I wouldn't mind trading down from the #2 pick since we have so many holes to fill. Maybe we can get another 2nd rounder by trading down. Couple that with a possible Orton trade and we'll have some serious ammo in this draft giving us the ability to fill a lot of gaps on this team immediately.

It would be nice to draft a stud like Fairley or Bowers, but we need so much help on Defense, I think we might be better off getting 2 or 3 solid guys as opposed to 1 superstar.

I like how you've thought this out but the teams in need of a quarterback can pretty much sit tight because the quarterbacks available haven't wowed any one as yet. That is subject to change should one of them a couple of them blow up the combine with a great workout.

[bcbronc]

I'm against trading back further than #5, and even that's stretching it.

Yes, we need more talent and extra picks would be great. But imo let's get the guy at the very top of our big board for once.

Now trading down from 36...okay I'm listening.
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[TXBRONC]

I'm against trading back further than #5, and even that's stretching it.

Yes, we need more talent and extra picks would be great. But imo let's get the guy at the very top of our big board for once.

Now trading down from 36...okay I'm listening.
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I agree but even then Denver needs as sure as possibly can that the teams aren't serious considering taking defensive tackle.

[OrangeHoof]

I've seen some of the latest mock drafts slating Buffalo to pick Cam Newton at #3 (Walterfootball.com, Mel Kiper). Perhaps there could be some other teams who may want to jump ahead of Buffalo and trade for our #2 pick to get Newton.

Some of the possibilities that I see with teams that may be looking to draft a QB:

Cincinatti (#4) - If they trade Palmer then they may be looking to draft someone and they would certainly have the ammunition to trade up if they do indeed part ways with Palmer

Arizona (#5) - Their QB situation is laughable, and if they fall in love with Newton, then perhaps they will be looking to move ahead of Buffalo

San Francisco (#7) - They are probably ready to give up on Alex Smith, so they are another team that may be in the market for a QB.

Tennessee (#8) - Vince Young will be gone, yet another team with a hole at QB.

Washington (#10) - McNabb is gone, and no one believes Sexy Rexy will be the long term guy there.

Minnesota (#12) - Favre is gone(?), and TJax will be too. Joe Webb is not an option there IMO.

All it takes is one of these teams to absolutely fall in love with Cam Newton and have enough fear that Buffalo will grab him. I wouldn't mind trading down from the #2 pick since we have so many holes to fill. Maybe we can get another 2nd rounder by trading down. Couple that with a possible Orton trade and we'll have some serious ammo in this draft giving us the ability to fill a lot of gaps on this team immediately.

It would be nice to draft a stud like Fairley or Bowers, but we need so much help on Defense, I think we might be better off getting 2 or 3 solid guys as opposed to 1 superstar.

I like your thinking but the famous "trade value chart" makes it almost impossible to fall further than the 5th or 6th pick, particularly if players can't be included in the trade this year.

The ideal scenario is to trade #1s and get either a pair of #2s or next year's #1 as the bounty (and then don't screw with it, right Josh???). A lot will depend on how the Broncos rate the defensive talent and how small the dropoff between 2-6 in the first round.

[robert ethan]

I like your thinking but the famous "trade value chart" makes it almost impossible to fall further than the 5th or 6th pick, particularly if players can't be included in the trade this year.

No one is bound by the "trade value chart". You do what you perceive is best for your team regardless of some random set of numbers someone came up with 10 years ago or whatever. There is so much fluidity in where players are taken in the draft what is the point of assigning a value number to the spot? If someone is expected to go in the second round and ends up being taken #10 overall (Tyson Alualu) is he suddenly a 1500 "point" value instead of a 500 point value?

[Lonestar]

No one is bound by the "trade value chart". You do what you perceive is best for your team regardless of some random set of numbers someone came up with 10 years ago or whatever. There is so much fluidity in where players are taken in the draft what is the point of assigning a value number to the spot? If someone is expected to go in the second round and ends up being taken #10 overall (Tyson Alualu) is he suddenly a 1500 "point" value instead of a 500 point value?

I suspect the "chart" will be revised when they get a rookie salary cap.

[rcsodak]

No one is bound by the "trade value chart". You do what you perceive is best for your team regardless of some random set of numbers someone came up with 10 years ago or whatever. There is so much fluidity in where players are taken in the draft what is the point of assigning a value number to the spot? If someone is expected to go in the second round and ends up being taken #10 overall (Tyson Alualu) is he suddenly a 1500 "point" value instead of a 500 point value?
In your scenario, who cares? He wasn't part of a trade, which is the purpose of the chart, correct?
Afterall, if a tree falls in the forest......

Its a" percieved" value. You don't think theres hell to pay if a FO trades a #2 for a #8, straightup? McD's Smith pick?
That chart may not be 'set in stone', league-wide, but its damn close.
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[Magnificent Seven]

Draft either Fairley or Bowers... find a way to trade down to get Patrick Petersen. I would be damn happy if they got Fairley/Bowers and Petersen.

[Timmy!]

:tsk:

:banghead:

No Peterson. No trading down.

[TXBRONC]

Draft either Fairley or Bowers... find a way to trade down to get Patrick Petersen. I would be damn happy if they got Fairley/Bowers and Petersen.


:tsk:

:banghead:

No Peterson. No trading down.

As long as trading down doesn't take us out of range of my top three Fairley (who more than likely wont be there anyway) Dareus, or Bowers I would be ok with us trading down. But I think that would couldn't trade out of the top five. I would rather we not draft Peterson. They have to take care of the front seven this time. I don't see how they can avoid it any long.

[vandammage13]

Draft either Fairley or Bowers... find a way to trade down to get Patrick Petersen. I would be damn happy if they got Fairley/Bowers and Petersen.

How could we get Peterson by trading down while still getting Fairley or Bowers? Did you mean trade up? I'm confused here...

[arapaho2]

No one is bound by the "trade value chart". You do what you perceive is best for your team regardless of some random set of numbers someone came up with 10 years ago or whatever. There is so much fluidity in where players are taken in the draft what is the point of assigning a value number to the spot? If someone is expected to go in the second round and ends up being taken #10 overall (Tyson Alualu) is he suddenly a 1500 "point" value instead of a 500 point value?

^^^^^ this^^^^
taken from the josh mcdanials book " how to trade a 14th overall and end up with a 7th rounder" i sppose

[TXBRONC]

^^^^^ this^^^^
taken from the josh mcdanials book " how to trade a 14th overall and end up with a 7th rounder" i sppose

I don't know if you have to go by the book as long as you don't do something as silly as trading a number one pick for a 2nd rounder that's gone a year later.

[Ravage!!!]

No one is bound by the "trade value chart". You do what you perceive is best for your team regardless of some random set of numbers someone came up with 10 years ago or whatever. There is so much fluidity in where players are taken in the draft what is the point of assigning a value number to the spot? If someone is expected to go in the second round and ends up being taken #10 overall (Tyson Alualu) is he suddenly a 1500 "point" value instead of a 500 point value?

GMs and Coaches aren't going to be over-willing to be THE Guy that completely ignores that chart and doesn't get the value for their picks. You don't hold the #2 pick in the draft and simply give it away without getting full value for that pick. You can't, its too valuable.

You may think the chart is out-dated and simply randomly thought out, but you would be wrong on that.

The chart holds value for several reasons. There are reasons why the 1st -5th picks are so high. The NFL does NOT want those picks to be easily traded away.

[arapaho2]

GMs and Coaches aren't going to be over-willing to be THE Guy that completely ignores that chart and doesn't get the value for their picks. You don't hold the #2 pick in the draft and simply give it away without getting full value for that pick. You can't, its too valuable.

You may think the chart is out-dated and simply randomly thought out, but you would be wrong on that.

The chart holds value for several reasons. There are reasons why the 1st -5th picks are so high. The NFL does NOT want those picks to be easily traded away.


rav every gm, coach, team draftniks use the value chart

only robert ethan and josh mcdaials think its ok to trade the 14th overall pick with a value of 1100 points straight up for the 37th pick with a value of 530...then trade that for a player who was drafted at 255# which is basically no draft value

[OrangeHoof]

The draft value chart began simply as an internal tool of the Dallas Cowboys war room back in the Jimmy Johnson days to have a quick-and-dirty way to decide if a trade involving draft picks was fair. It's been tweaked a bit since then, but that's all it represents. When you have 10 minutes or less to decide if a trade offer is good, the chart gives you something to compare with quickly.

The problem is that now the chart is in wide circulation and is held up as an authority to whether a trade is good or not. Fan bases arise in revolt if the deal appears too out of balance against your team and use the chart as "proof".

Ultimately, the value in any draft pick is what you do with it. Surely, Tom Brady was a better choice than most of the first-rounders that year but you can only judge that in retrospect. It does nothing to help you on draft day.

[underrated29]

Its like the right of parlay.


the value chart is not the rule. Its more of a guideline.

[Ravage!!!]

Its like the right of parlay.


the value chart is not the rule. Its more of a guideline.

But a guideline that generally isn't ignored, and is pretty closely followed.

The chart offers up a numerical (tangible) value as opposed to just a random number. Its a starting point that doesn't have to be followed, but because teams don't want to be the one that sets precedent on an unfair trade, most stick to it pretty close.

If there is a change in the value with a rookie cap (which I personally don't think will happen).... then you will see the top picks have even a GREATER number in comparison to the rest of the draft because the NFL does NOT want those picks traded easily. Its bad for the draft.

Right now the top picks have value. You lower that value, you lower the image of that product. 1st round picks bring in BIG BIG money for the NFL and for the NFL franchises. You take away or diminish that value, and you take away from the value of having that top pick. Thats something the NFL does NOT want to happen.

[OrangeHoof]

Whoever invented that chart probably wishes he had bothered to copyright it.

[Ravage!!!]

Whoever invented that chart probably wishes he had bothered to copyright it.

Can't. Can't claim ownership of numbers, and all it would take is one change to bypass his copywrite.

[rcsodak]

Its like the right of parlay.


the value chart is not the rule. Its more of a guideline.
aiiiiiiiieeeee mateeeeeeeyyyyy
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[rcsodak]

Whoever invented that chart probably wishes he had bothered to copyright it.legalzoom.com
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[WARHORSE]

I've seen some of the latest mock drafts slating Buffalo to pick Cam Newton at #3 (Walterfootball.com, Mel Kiper). Perhaps there could be some other teams who may want to jump ahead of Buffalo and trade for our #2 pick to get Newton.

Some of the possibilities that I see with teams that may be looking to draft a QB:

Cincinatti (#4) - If they trade Palmer then they may be looking to draft someone and they would certainly have the ammunition to trade up if they do indeed part ways with Palmer

Arizona (#5) - Their QB situation is laughable, and if they fall in love with Newton, then perhaps they will be looking to move ahead of Buffalo

San Francisco (#7) - They are probably ready to give up on Alex Smith, so they are another team that may be in the market for a QB.

Tennessee (#8) - Vince Young will be gone, yet another team with a hole at QB.

Washington (#10) - McNabb is gone, and no one believes Sexy Rexy will be the long term guy there.

Minnesota (#12) - Favre is gone(?), and TJax will be too. Joe Webb is not an option there IMO.

All it takes is one of these teams to absolutely fall in love with Cam Newton and have enough fear that Buffalo will grab him. I wouldn't mind trading down from the #2 pick since we have so many holes to fill. Maybe we can get another 2nd rounder by trading down. Couple that with a possible Orton trade and we'll have some serious ammo in this draft giving us the ability to fill a lot of gaps on this team immediately.

It would be nice to draft a stud like Fairley or Bowers, but we need so much help on Defense, I think we might be better off getting 2 or 3 solid guys as opposed to 1 superstar.


This is like the best year ever to have a trade prospect at QB on your roster.

Does Lezlie Frazier want to win now? Who will be the signal caller. His team is ripe to win NOW.

How about Arizona?

Buffalo?

Washington? Shanahan will not sit pat with McScabb under center.

It just may be our second round picks that end up being moved. I dont see alot of these teams using their first rounders on the QB prospects that are available other than Newton or Gabbert, which means the second round is where they will be trying to maneuver, or back into the lower end of the first.

Once again, New England is sitting pretty to trade back.

[PAINTERDAVE]

This is like the best year ever to have a trade prospect at QB on your roster.



It just may be our second round picks that end up being moved. I dont see alot of these teams using their first rounders on the QB prospects that are available other than Newton or Gabbert, which means the second round is where they will be trying to maneuver, or back into the lower end of the first.

Once again, New England is sitting pretty to trade back.

Great post... trading down the 2nd round pick...
that mnight get us some decent additional rookies.
Had not thought of that or heard it mentioned.


And... with all those teams needing a QB... it seems like once the CBA is done...
we just might get a good 2012 pick for Orton, as well.

[TXBRONC]

Great post... trading down the 2nd round pick...
that mnight get us some decent additional rookies.
Had not thought of that or heard it mentioned.


And... with all those teams needing a QB... it seems like once the CBA is done...
we just might get a good 2012 pick for Orton, as well.

I wonder if our 2nd round pick could net us two middle round picks because IIRC we have none something like the 4th and 5th rounds.

[cuzz4169]

I find it funny Bowers is only lifting at combine...I really don't think he's that athletic and his #'s would show it & hurt him.

[bcbronc]

I find it funny Bowers is only lifting at combine...I really don't think he's that athletic and his #'s would show it & hurt him.

didn't he just have anthroscopic surgery done on his knee?

[WARHORSE]

I find it funny Bowers is only lifting at combine...I really don't think he's that athletic and his #'s would show it & hurt him.

That of course translates to: Theyre trying to get his 40 time up, or his drill times.



He just moved himself down the boards.



Of course, it could be premeditated.


If hes doing really well, then they wait until right before the draft, then unleash him. By that time the combine will be long over, and Bowers will be the one on everyones tongue.



:coffee:

[cuzz4169]

didn't he just have anthroscopic surgery done on his knee?

yes...

Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com senior analyst, said of Bowers: "Though surgery for a partially torn meniscus is not typically considered an injury that could derail a prospect's stock, the timing couldn't be worse for Bowers. The Clemson defensive end may have led the nation in sacks, but some question whether he has the explosive burst to replicate that success in the NFL. If he's unable to perform at his best in shuttle drills, the 40-yard dash and the jumps (broad jump, vertical) at the Combine, he'll be losing out on an opportunity to ease these concerns."

I don't see him as an explosive athletic player...I see him as a high motor guy. Those guys do ok...but with the #2 pick I want the guy to be athletic and have a high motor.

[underrated29]

yes...

Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com senior analyst, said of Bowers: "Though surgery for a partially torn meniscus is not typically considered an injury that could derail a prospect's stock, the timing couldn't be worse for Bowers. The Clemson defensive end may have led the nation in sacks, but some question whether he has the explosive burst to replicate that success in the NFL. If he's unable to perform at his best in shuttle drills, the 40-yard dash and the jumps (broad jump, vertical) at the Combine, he'll be losing out on an opportunity to ease these concerns."

I don't see him as an explosive athletic player...I see him as a high motor guy. Those guys do ok...but with the #2 pick I want the guy to be athletic and have a high motor.




As crazy as you might call me. At this point, I would rather Take JJ Watt at #2 over Daquan Bowers. dead serious. Watt reminds me of Clay Matthews, just a go getter. Nothing real fancy about his game, but it does not matter because he is a baller.


oh and he is not injured. That is a plus!

[bcbronc]

As crazy as you might call me. At this point, I would rather Take JJ Watt at #2 over Daquan Bowers. dead serious. Watt reminds me of Clay Matthews, just a go getter. Nothing real fancy about his game, but it does not matter because he is a baller.


oh and he is not injured. That is a plus!

and yet you've got Bowers at the top of your want list in your sig. :confused:

Bowers may not be as explosive out of his stance as, say, Peppers but he's not exactly a slug either. his variety of pass rush moves, his motor, and his amazing hands (he's like Houdini the way he can use his hands to just make himself invisible to his blocker) all make up for that to a degree.

give me a guy with okay burst but great hands and motor any day over a guy with a great burst but doesn't know how to use his hands and has no motor.

[cuzz4169]

As crazy as you might call me. At this point, I would rather Take JJ Watt at #2 over Daquan Bowers. dead serious. Watt reminds me of Clay Matthews, just a go getter. Nothing real fancy about his game, but it does not matter because he is a baller.


oh and he is not injured. That is a plus!

I'd rather take Von Miller. I like this kid a lot...move him to WLB and plug him at DE on passing downs.

[NightTerror218]

As crazy as you might call me. At this point, I would rather Take JJ Watt at #2 over Daquan Bowers. dead serious. Watt reminds me of Clay Matthews, just a go getter. Nothing real fancy about his game, but it does not matter because he is a baller.


oh and he is not injured. That is a plus!


IF you want a Clay Mathews person....look at his brother who could go off the boards in the 3rd....i think he would be a good ILB pick....his play is identical to his brother, his motivation is the same and he is the same size coming out of college

[hamrob]

The QB's have impressed at the Combine:

Cam Newton - Physical Freak...10'6" broad jump, 4.58 40...has a cannon and very little to no mechanical problems

Jake Locker - 10'0" broad jump, 4.52 40, improved mechanics...super Athelete!

Ryan Mallet - Many feel threw the ball the best and answered any doubts!

Blaine Gabbart - Great Athelete, all the tools, high prospect.

If these guys blow it out in their Pro-days....All 4 could end up going top 15, with at least 2 in the top 10.

Trading back will be tough...but, has to be our #1 strategy. We can still get a stud in the first and will gain a couple high picks in doing so.