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dogfish
02-10-2011, 01:56 PM
The period for NFL teams to place the franchise tag on players opened Thursday amid an uncertain labor climate.

Teams have a 14-day window to apply the franchise tag to potential unrestricted free agents. The NFL has maintained that the franchise tag is still viable, even with the expiration of the collective bargaining agreement due after March 3

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/02/window-opens-for-nfl-teams-to-use-controversial-franchise-tag/1

this will doubtlessly be challenged in court if a new CBA isn't signed by mar 4, but it's still going to be interesting to watch, and should give us some indication of teams' plans. . . i REALLY wish we'd apply the tag to champ just to be pro-active, but i'm certainly getting the feeling we won't. . .

IMO, we're retarded to potentially let his rights go for nothing. . . i understand about youth movement and all that, but dude is one of three consistently really good players we have-- we're not in a great position to let any talent walk without compensation. . . i will be very frustrated if the new FO can't figure out a better resolution than waving at the guy on his way out the door. . .

Slick
02-10-2011, 02:11 PM
I agree dog, and I'd love to see us franchise him while working out a way for him to retire a Bronco. It would also help the new front office demonstrate that we value our veteran players and will treat them well. We also need to find a way to make other potential free agents want to come play in Denver.

Champ may not want to wait for us to sort this mess out, and I wouldn't blame him. Do you think he'd be pissed if we franchised him?

underrated29
02-10-2011, 02:42 PM
I agree dog, and I'd love to see us franchise him while working out a way for him to retire a Bronco. It would also help the new front office demonstrate that we value our veteran players and will treat them well. We also need to find a way to make other potential free agents want to come play in Denver.

Champ may not want to wait for us to sort this mess out, and I wouldn't blame him. Do you think he'd be pissed if we franchised him?




In an interview, dont remember where I saw it, but I did read it. Champ clearly said that if he were to be tagged he would not have a problem with it what so ever.


I agree, we need to tag him. Then we will at least have him, or get something for him should he walk. We cant just let him go for nothing.

BigSarge87
02-10-2011, 02:49 PM
If that's true and he wouldn't be pissed to recieve the FT, what's the opposition to it? Should be a no-brainer, right?

underrated29
02-10-2011, 02:51 PM
We need dnc in here. She always can find the things that we see but can not remember where.



Carol? Calling all Carols....

Ravage!!!
02-10-2011, 02:55 PM
I love Champ. But thats why I don't see us putting the franchise tag on him. He was ready to sign before, and we pulled it out from under him, basically allowing him to take the risk of injury and NEVER be signed while playing for a 4-12 team.

The Franchise tag is a one-year contract. From his perspective, its ANOTHER one year contract. We put the franchise tag on him, after last season's stunt, and I think its an insult.

BroncoStud
02-10-2011, 02:58 PM
Tagging Champ is the first and easiest move this franchise needs to make. He has a lot of value and he is still young enough to be elite, we would be idiots to let him walk.

For all we know Denver could a .500 team next season and a contender after that, Champ could make all the difference.

Slick
02-10-2011, 02:58 PM
I love Champ. But thats why I don't see us putting the franchise tag on him. He was ready to sign before, and we pulled it out from under him, basically allowing him to take the risk of injury and NEVER be signed while playing for a 4-12 team.

The Franchise tag is a one-year contract. From his perspective, its ANOTHER one year contract. We put the franchise tag on him, after last season's stunt, and I think its an insult.

Last year was last year Rav. We have a new front office, kind of. Tag him and work out a deal.

Ravage!!!
02-10-2011, 03:04 PM
Last year was last year Rav. We have a new front office, kind of. Tag him and work out a deal.

I agree. But that doesn't help Champ out from HIS perspective. The Tag is a one year contract. Meaning that we aren't willing to put out up-front money, and commit to him for more than a year. In the meantime, he's taking all the risk. If he gets hurt, he never gets that longer-term deal. This is why players don't like the Franchise tag and never have.

He's going to look out for his best interests. If we really wanted to sign him to a longer-term deal, why didn't we do so when he was willing to lower his asking price last season? Now we come in and put him under a mandated one-year contract that he can't refuse? I think that would make any player upset, and Champ is no different. Even mild mannered Champ, who never says anything negative about anyone, let his frustration show publicly last year. The players in the locker room sure know the situation.

I love Champ. Would love for him to stay here. But I hope we do it without forcing the Franchise Tag on him.

HORSEPOWER 56
02-10-2011, 03:11 PM
Last year was last year Rav. We have a new front office, kind of. Tag him and work out a deal.

Exactly. Just because you tagged him doesn't mean you can't come right back and sign him to a long term extension later once the new CBA is finalized. It just prevents him from being a true street FA the second the CBA gets done which means we'd be competing with everyone.

If anything, it would show him that we're committed to him being a Bronco until the end of his HOF career.

tomjonesrocks
02-10-2011, 03:33 PM
It seems like it's time to move on with Champ. Does he not want to taste the playoffs again before his career is done?

Unfortunately an elite corner is a complementary player and doesn't have enough impact to win games. Let the guy go and hopefully he still enters the Hall Asa a Bronco.

Slick
02-10-2011, 04:10 PM
Exactly. Just because you tagged him doesn't mean you can't come right back and sign him to a long term extension later once the new CBA is finalized. It just prevents him from being a true street FA the second the CBA gets done which means we'd be competing with everyone.

If anything, it would show him that we're committed to him being a Bronco until the end of his HOF career.

One phone call from the Duke should do it...

"Champ, due to the idiocy displayed by the former administration we are going to have to tag you, however as soon as a CBA is in place we will sit down and bang something out."

Ravage!!!
02-10-2011, 04:15 PM
I would love to sign him. But I dont' think Champ is going to buy into the "promise" of a contract extension. Seems there was a promise to another player that is now in Miami, and other promises around the league, as well. Agents and players know how things work.

Its not like Champ can 'refuse' the franchise tag, anyway. So I'm not saying its up to Champ. But I wouldn't expect to see that happen BECAUSE we respect Champ and not in a position to simply rent a corner and pay top 5 money for one year.

lgenf
02-10-2011, 04:21 PM
one thing about the tag is the costs associated with it - anyone have the figures for that on a CB this year

that oakland kid and jets kid have some BIG contracts, doesn't that play into it?

is he worth that kind of money? (and I don't mean to us the fans) look at it from a business deal, is he worth that kind of $$$ on the "open market"

dogfish
02-10-2011, 04:29 PM
one thing about the tag is the costs associated with it - anyone have the figures for that on a CB this year

that oakland kid and jets kid have some BIG contracts, doesn't that play into it?

is he worth that kind of money? (and I don't mean to us the fans) look at it from a business deal, is he worth that kind of $$$ on the "open market"

i believe it's in the range of 13 million this year. . . and while it's obviously not an ideal situation for anyone involved, yes, i do think it's worth that to keep his rights. . . doesn't mean we can't sign him to a long-term deal at some point-- whether this year if a window to negotiate from under the tag is available, or next year-- or trade the rights at some point if need be. . .

using the tag obviously isn't a long term solution, but it is a way to keep one of our best players from leaving with no compensation to the team-- and that most certainly is worth the cost IMO. . .

dogfish
02-15-2011, 07:48 PM
The Colts quarterback is the fifth player to get the tag on Tuesday, and the sixth overall. It’s quite a group: Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, Vincent Jackson, Haloti Ngata, Logan Mankins, and David Harris.

predictably, it looks like we'll sit on our hands and let our superstar walk with no compensation if he doesn't feel like signing a pity deal. . .

:yardog:

PAINTERDAVE
02-15-2011, 08:33 PM
One phone call from the Duke should do it...

"Champ, due to the idiocy displayed by the former administration we are going to have to tag you, however as soon as a CBA is in place we will sit down and bang something out."

I was thinking this exact idea.. good post.

cuzz4169
02-15-2011, 09:00 PM
I really don't believe Champ will be a Bronco. I believe for the price we will pay to keep him it makes no sense, with so many other holes to fill.

nevcraw
02-15-2011, 09:17 PM
I really don't believe Champ will be a Bronco. I believe for the price we will pay to keep him it makes no sense, with so many other holes to fill.

If that's true better add corner to your list of "holes to fill".
without champ u got an aging vet who is a good #2 but showing massive wear and tear and another dude stearing a loving prison shower moment dead in the face.. not much to like in that scenario.

they casn fix the line but without decent corner play it will be dink and dunk all the way down the field.. remember the lenny walls years??

cuzz4169
02-15-2011, 09:23 PM
If that's true better add corner to your list of "holes to fill".
without champ u got an aging vet who is a good #2 but showing massive wear and tear and another dude stearing a loving prison shower moment dead in the face.. not much to like in that scenario.

they casn fix the line but without decent corner play it will be dink and dunk all the way down the field.. remember the lenny walls years??

I agree that its a hole to fill if champ leaves...Champ is making about 9mil a yr now...no way he is worth more than that at this point in his career....on this team...the value is just not there....let me make sure you know im a champ fan...I think he has been great for this team...it's just bad timing and when all else fails blame Mcdouche

BeefStew25
02-15-2011, 09:31 PM
We need someone to believe in.

dogfish
02-15-2011, 09:36 PM
I really don't believe Champ will be a Bronco. I believe for the price we will pay to keep him it makes no sense, with so many other holes to fill.

i would agree with you if i thought that money would instead be spent to sign paul soliai, cullen jenkins or brandon mebane, instead of the majority going back into bowlen's coffers after adding a few third-rate free agents. . .


i do agree about the champ not being a bronco part, unfortunately. . .

cuzz4169
02-15-2011, 09:40 PM
here are some #'s to look at defensive rankings.

..........Total____Run_____Pass____Pts____+/-
2010:...32 .......31 ..........25 ....... 32 .......-9
2009:...7..........26............3..........12.... ...+7
2008:...29 ........27......... 26......... 30..... -17
2007:...19....... 30........... 7 .........28.......+1
2006:...14........12...........21..........8...... ...+2
2005:...15........2.............29.........3...... ..+18
2004:...4 ........4 .............6.......... 9........ -9

Those #s are not eye popping. The most important #'s to me are points against and +/- and in 2005 the year we went to afc championship they were the best, and if you notice are pass defense blew in yards and our run defense was great.

Now the question is with a 32yr old champ bailey probably making 10m per season do these numbers get better by that much to pay him 10m? paying him 10m per season makes it a lot harder to get other pieces for the defense.

JDL
02-15-2011, 09:46 PM
Champ is subject to the 120% rule... the CB franchise number does not matter as he made more than that last year. The only question is if bonuses are counted.

He made 9.5mil base salary = 11.4million
He made 13mil total w/ bonuses = 15.6million (probably this is accurate)

The issue is that he had a 4year 40million dollar contract pulled from the table. Of course Champ will be more than happy to sign THAT 1 year deal, it is likely as much guaranteed as he would have received in the 4yr 40mil scenario. I would still do it. The long-term benefits to having Champ retire a Bronco outweigh any other issues. The Broncos do not have any significant cap issues (there isn't one) and they wouldn't have been near the cap had there been one in place, so this idea that we HAVE to cut him to be able to pay others is ridiculous, and add to that we've signed the likes of Jarvis Green, Justin Bannan and Jamal Williams that paid them a combined 16.5 mil last year and will pay them (Except Green) nearly as much this year... is that how you want to rebuild? Those types of guys are going to make the D better than keeping Bailey? really...lol.

Champ is a proven leader, top notch intangibles, a couple steps slower and not as good anymore as some here believe, but an above average corner, tackles well and projects to be a Pro Bowl safety in the near future. If he retires he will enter the Broncos Ring of Fame and add another Bronco to the Hall of Fame.

Do you know from a franchise prestige perspective how embarrassing the following numbers are?

Oakland - 13
Kansas City - 9 (Will Shields yet to come)
San Diego - 7 (LT and Seau to come)
Denver - 4 (Atwater and maybe 1 or 2 others will trickle in IF we are lucky)

For as winning a franchise as we are, this tells other players that we can't get them the recognition and notoriety enough to sell our players on induction... we have an 8-time pro bowl, all-decade (as voted on by the Hall of Fame committee) safety we can't even get into the top 25 of votiing.

We need to establish ourselves in that rank, to take our proper place as a franchise amongst the very best in NFL history, but it is hard to do when we let Hall of Famers continually walk away and go in as players for other teams (see Willie Brown.)

I mean what's the downside to keeping Bailey? Afraid we won't overspend the same on other overrated free agents? We have so much money tied up in the DL right now it isn't funny. Why not actually spend money on our guys, show that we take care of our own and treat Bailey like he is a TRUE Bronco rather than some rent-a-pro-bowler. The fans love him, he sells jerseys, the positives on and off the field are just overwhelming.

But, it appears we're going to just let him walk for nothing. :mad:

cuzz4169
02-15-2011, 10:01 PM
Champ is subject to the 120% rule... the CB franchise number does not matter as he made more than that last year. The only question is if bonuses are counted.

He made 9.5mil base salary = 11.4million
He made 13mil total w/ bonuses = 15.6million (probably this is accurate)

The issue is that he had a 4year 40million dollar contract pulled from the table. Of course Champ will be more than happy to sign THAT 1 year deal, it is likely as much guaranteed as he would have received in the 4yr 40mil scenario. I would still do it. The long-term benefits to having Champ retire a Bronco outweigh any other issues. The Broncos do not have any significant cap issues (there isn't one) and they wouldn't have been near the cap had there been one in place, so this idea that we HAVE to cut him to be able to pay others is ridiculous, and add to that we've signed the likes of Jarvis Green, Justin Bannan and Jamal Williams that paid them a combined 16.5 mil last year and will pay them (Except Green) nearly as much this year... is that how you want to rebuild? Those types of guys are going to make the D better than keeping Bailey? really...lol.

Champ is a proven leader, top notch intangibles, a couple steps slower and not as good anymore as some here believe, but an above average corner, tackles well and projects to be a Pro Bowl safety in the near future. If he retires he will enter the Broncos Ring of Fame and add another Bronco to the Hall of Fame.

Do you know from a franchise prestige perspective how embarrassing the following numbers are?

Oakland - 13
Kansas City - 9 (Will Shields yet to come)
San Diego - 7 (LT and Seau to come)
Denver - 4 (Atwater and maybe 1 or 2 others will trickle in IF we are lucky)

For as winning a franchise as we are, this tells other players that we can't get them the recognition and notoriety enough to sell our players on induction... we have an 8-time pro bowl, all-decade (as voted on by the Hall of Fame committee) safety we can't even get into the top 25 of votiing.

We need to establish ourselves in that rank, to take our proper place as a franchise amongst the very best in NFL history, but it is hard to do when we let Hall of Famers continually walk away and go in as players for other teams (see Willie Brown.)

I mean what's the downside to keeping Bailey? Afraid we won't overspend the same on other overrated free agents? We have so much money tied up in the DL right now it isn't funny. Why not actually spend money on our guys, show that we take care of our own and treat Bailey like he is a TRUE Bronco rather than some rent-a-pro-bowler. The fans love him, he sells jerseys, the positives on and off the field are just overwhelming.

But, it appears we're going to just let him walk for nothing. :mad:

I agree with some points...One thing I don't agree with I don't think Champ will ever move to safety..I don't think he wants to be that guy who slows down and moves to safety. I don't watch the Broncos to see players go to the Hall of Fame...It's nice to see players go but I don't want to keep a player just so he goes as a Bronco...Does that help the Broncos win games? You can't compare old FA signings to the front office in place now...Everything Mcdouche did was terrible...paying a Long snapper 1m is insane...there are some nice pieces out there on the FA market...I'm not sure what are cap # is, but if we can afford to keep champ and sign FA's then that's great. If not then he's a loss we have to live with.

rcsodak
02-15-2011, 10:22 PM
I love Champ. But thats why I don't see us putting the franchise tag on him. He was ready to sign before, and we pulled it out from under him, basically allowing him to take the risk of injury and NEVER be signed while playing for a 4-12 team.

The Franchise tag is a one-year contract. From his perspective, its ANOTHER one year contract. We put the franchise tag on him, after last season's stunt, and I think its an insult.
Im sure manning just hates it too. :rolleyes:
Look. Its part of the bargaining, if nothing else. It gives the team some time to see what happens with the cba/cap, etc. Plus, with the amount of $$ champ made last year, he doesn't need to be biting at the bit. He's spoken his platitudes and now its up to his agent and the FO to come to an agreement.
I'd like to see him stay but not at the expense of the rebuilding of the team. He needs to realize he's only 1/20 (worth) of the team.
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rcsodak
02-15-2011, 10:26 PM
I would love to sign him. But I dont' think Champ is going to buy into the "promise" of a contract extension. Seems there was a promise to another player that is now in Miami, and other promises around the league, as well. Agents and players know how things work.

Its not like Champ can 'refuse' the franchise tag, anyway. So I'm not saying its up to Champ. But I wouldn't expect to see that happen BECAUSE we respect Champ and not in a position to simply rent a corner and pay top 5 money for one year.

BM IS NOT CB. NEVER HAS BEEN. NEVER WILL BE. On the field or off. :coffee:
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rcsodak
02-15-2011, 10:27 PM
predictably, it looks like we'll sit on our hands and let our superstar walk with no compensation if he doesn't feel like signing a pity deal. . .

:yardog:
Damm dog. They don't have to do it on day 1! Good grief....take a Midol.
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rcsodak
02-15-2011, 10:30 PM
I agree that its a hole to fill if champ leaves...Champ is making about 9mil a yr now...no way he is worth more than that at this point in his career....on this team...the value is just not there....let me make sure you know im a champ fan...I think he has been great for this team...it's just bad timing and when all else fails blame Mcdouche
McD is NOT the problem or the excuse. Move on boys/gurls. This started WAY before he came into the picture.
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cuzz4169
02-15-2011, 10:37 PM
McD is NOT the problem or the excuse. Move on boys/gurls. This started WAY before he came into the picture.
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That's funny...:laugh:

rcsodak
02-15-2011, 10:37 PM
I agree with some points...One thing I don't agree with I don't think Champ will ever move to safety..I don't think he wants to be that guy who slows down and moves to safety. I don't watch the Broncos to see players go to the Hall of Fame...It's nice to see players go but I don't want to keep a player just so he goes as a Bronco...Does that help the Broncos win games? You can't compare old FA signings to the front office in place now...Everything Mcdouche did was terrible...paying a Long snapper 1m is insane...there are some nice pieces out there on the FA market...I'm not sure what are cap # is, but if we can afford to keep champ and sign FA's then that's great. If not then he's a loss we have to live with.

CB has already said that he has no problem migrating to tha safety spot when he's no longer an acceptable CB. He just feels like he hasn't diminished to that point yet. IIRC, he said he thought he had 3-5yrs left at cb.
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cuzz4169
02-15-2011, 10:48 PM
CB has already said that he has no problem migrating to tha safety spot when he's no longer an acceptable CB. He just feels like he hasn't diminished to that point yet. IIRC, he said he thought he had 3-5yrs left at cb.
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show me where he said this....I google a lot of BS talk but can't find anything from champ saying he will move to safety.

JDL
02-16-2011, 02:58 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16037566

Highly doubt Klis would lie about it...


He has acknowledged the possibility of switching positions, as Rod Woodson did late in his Hall of Fame career. Bailey has said he would not consider such a transition before he turns 35.

And it has been apart of the chatter all over the net for awhile ... so not hard to find.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/538926-nfl-rumors-will-cornerback-champ-bailey-leave-the-denver-broncos

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153206

JDL
02-16-2011, 03:42 AM
Another point... 8 of the last 10 DPOY ... have been non-DL so this idea we HAVE to spend all our resources on the front 7 to be successful isn't really on point... 4DPOY have been DBs and 4 have been LBs.

The idea behind a good DL is finding pieces that fit specific roles. You don't routinely find DL that are great at everything... just really doesn't happen very often and you can bust your team looking for that.

We have a double-digit pass rusher... we need one more. Then we need strong active DL who are good in run support. Supposedly Bannan is that and a change of coaching may help him get back to the form that saw us give us him a ridiculous contract.

Our defense was borderline great with garbage along the DL ... why? Brian Dawkins... guy was a major impact player who routinely saved big plays and got the D off the field on 3rd down. He goes down and everything suddenly sucks in 2009, he has an injury plagued 2010 and the improvement in the D last year coincided with his return.

A very good D needs 1 superstar general (2 to be elite) - when we had Al Wilson the D was very good, when he went out against Seattle.. the D fell apart they came back won, then he missed SF and Gore embarrassed us and we missed the playoffs. Dawkins leads a top 10 D in 2009 we get off to a great start, he misses time, the D falls apart and is never the same, in 2010 the D didn't get better until the end of the season when he came back.

The great secret of building a tremendous D is having 1 tremendous playmaker. You can take that to mean that we don't need Bailey then, but I take it to mean that the defense needs that 1 guy above all else, they aren't available generally in free agency (unless you are picking them up in their twilight.) We've tried building D's with overpriced overrated free agents who are overvalued for what they actually bring. You can find almost any position you need but the following, with relative ease.

My point is in this league it is hard to find CBs who can do that much, Pittsburgh has struggled for years to find that and it just cost them the Super Bowl, even with constant front 7 pressure.

Our CBs aren't broken imo, why break them for the sake of finding average/solid players who can do their job?

RDE - Dumervil (great pass rusher)
DT - need strong active run support guy (available commonly throughout 2nd/3rd rds)
DT - Need strong run support guy, doesn't need to be disruptive, just hold ground (very common to find as UDFA, late in drafts or just cheap free agents.
LDE - Strong end, good against run - but with some pass rush ability 6-8sacks, if you get lucky he becomes double digit sack guy like Justin Tuck (3rd rd pick 74)
3rd down pass rusher - On passing downs your immobile DT comes off, LDE moves inside and you bring in this player

WLB - needs to be fast and able to chase down plays from behind, ok if not strong at point of attack, most important is pursuit ability. Occasionally, you get a guy who is dominant at the run and point of attack and pass rush, but it is rare.
MLB - leader of the defense responsible for directing players, making key stops and being able to play through traffic, most difficult and most important position in a 4-3, imo... presence of a great player here can make or break a D.
SLB - generally needs to be able to cover RBs/TEs and be good at point of attack, generally the least talented (really least dynamic) player ends up in this position.

Secondary - I'll cover this as a whole because it provides the most flexibility regardless of defense. It helps a lot to have a so-called shutdown defense, because it allows you to play an unbalanced coverage scheme where you shade coverage towards one side. If you don't have an elite MLB, you can make up for it with an elite Safety who can play up or back, in fact, it is becoming increasingly vital. The same things that Polamalu (who didn't play well hurt) does is what we had in Atwater in the Super Bowl (sacks, FF, pass breakups) this player also directs the secondary.

To summarize/revise... an elite D will have

1) 1 HoF type MLB
2a) 1 HoF type Safety
2b) 1 Elite Pass rusher
4) 1 shutdown CB
5) 7 average starters (guys who could start for at least half the teams in the league and may be 1 dimensional, but good at something and intermixed with players that cover up their deficiencies... most players have them and I'd rather have a good run stuffing DT, who sucks at rushing the passer than one that is average at both)

This is ideal imo, it is exceedingly rare. My point is that I am NOT worried about finding 7 average starters at the cost of a category above that (i.e. shutdown corner or potential elite safety ala Rod Woodson) Doesn't make sense to me.

We have 2 of the 4 needed ingredients. Our #2 pick needs to if at all possible find one of the other 2.... which is why I advocate Peterson (Peterson will either shut down half the field with Bailey at safety or be a dynamic safety with a very good, no longer great cover CB in Bailey... and all we need is a MLB. Von Miller is the other guy I'd like while not a traditional MLB, he has the size for it or at least will be similar to a Derrick Thomas elite LB. Then draft DL/OL the rest of the way (draft is very deep in them and like most teams todays, many of the best ones will be taken in rounds 2-4.)

Then with a little good coaching and nice cheap solid backups in free agency, we can build a defense immediately as good as what we had early in 2009 and hopefully sustain that over years as we indoctrinate young players in this system.

Anyway, my thoughts, sorry for length... lot's to say about it lol.

JDL
02-16-2011, 03:49 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17398281

Good news .... Denver re-opened discussions with Bailey on a contract extension...looks like I was right... he'll get 15mil with franchise tag (probably the 15.6 I stated above) so the Broncos won't likely do that as article states. But, hopefully they can get something done quickly. Still they were willing to give him 4yrs 40mil... so what if they give him 15mil this year? 15mil 10/10/10 right? 4yrs 45mil... do they really think his price tag went down after getting balled over by *supposedly* McDaniels? Sure it changes the guaranteed portion from probably 10-12mil to 15-20mil ... but does anyone really expect that Bailey is just going to suck in the next two years? with his work ethic? I don't see it. I think the guaranteed portion is a small issue for a player like him.

rcsodak
02-16-2011, 09:47 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16037566

Highly doubt Klis would lie about it...


He has acknowledged the possibility of switching positions, as Rod Woodson did late in his Hall of Fame career. Bailey has said he would not consider such a transition before he turns 35.

And it has been apart of the chatter all over the net for awhile ... so not hard to find.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/538926-nfl-rumors-will-cornerback-champ-bailey-leave-the-denver-broncos

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153206
Thx, JDL. :thumb:
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vettesplus
02-16-2011, 10:30 AM
if he is franchised and gets hurt, so what. he is getting paid somewhere in the $15mil range for that contract. he is set for life...no brainer to me. i always hear these guys talk about a big contract because if they get hurt what will they do then..."lol" go fishing and count your millions, to me just a bunch of overpaid jocks crying for more money...jmo...i do still love the broncos...flame suit is on...go ahead...

cuzz4169
02-16-2011, 04:30 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16037566

Highly doubt Klis would lie about it...


He has acknowledged the possibility of switching positions, as Rod Woodson did late in his Hall of Fame career. Bailey has said he would not consider such a transition before he turns 35.

And it has been apart of the chatter all over the net for awhile ... so not hard to find.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/538926-nfl-rumors-will-cornerback-champ-bailey-leave-the-denver-broncos

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153206

Yes I've seen these and all is speculation...Champ has never been quoted as saying he would move to safety...Others have talked about it, but nothing in the media has come directly from him.

rcsodak
02-16-2011, 04:39 PM
Yes I've seen these and all is speculation...Champ has never been quoted as saying he would move to safety...Others have talked about it, but nothing in the media has come directly from him.
Sure about that?
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claymore
02-16-2011, 04:42 PM
I think John Lynch has said that Bailey had openly planned to move to safety at some point.

cuzz4169
02-16-2011, 04:50 PM
I think John Lynch has said that Bailey had openly planned to move to safety at some point.

yea I read that, but like I'm saying I want to hear Champ say it not others....we all know how that works in the media.

rcsodak
02-16-2011, 04:50 PM
I think John Lynch has said that Bailey had openly planned to move to safety at some point. Klis/lynch are just making shit up. They can't be trusted!

:grin:
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cuzz4169
02-16-2011, 04:57 PM
Klis/lynch are just making shit up. They can't be trusted!

:grin:
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What's wrong with you?! I don't care what others say...I want to see or hear it come from champ. Do you know Lynch/Klis you would trust everything they say? We can talk about a lot of stuff, Champs conversation with Lynch couldve been like:

Lynch: "champ in a couple of years you should think about moving to safety to prolong your career"
Champ: "that might not be a bad Idea something to think about"

Now Lynch can say they talked about it. Like I said until I HEAR champ say he will move to safety I wont believe it. I hear Jeter will move to outfield I wont believe it till I hear him say he will.

vandammage13
02-16-2011, 05:08 PM
I think franchising Bailey is a no-brainer. The only reason I say this is because who else on this team would be worthy of using it on? Champ is really the only FA we can't afford to lose, even if it means pissing him off and not getting a long term deal done. 1 more year with Champ is better than none, and IMO I think signing him to a long term deal might be a mistake because he probably only has about 2-3 years (max) left of playing corner at a high level anyway. Why sign him for 5 years when he's probably going to be a liability like B-Dawk back there for the last 2 years of the deal?

I say franchise him for 1 year and then let him walk if he wants to.

Ravage!!!
02-16-2011, 05:13 PM
No. Don't franchise tag a player if your plans are to ONLY keep him around for one year. Thats TERRIBLE management, and HORRENDOUS player relations. You only franchise tag a player you do not want toleave, and plan on extending with a long-term contract. Simply placing a tag on a guy for a one year rental is a way to slap a guy in the face.

These players are friends, they talk, they twitter, the go out.... and they share agents. You treat a classy guy, like Bailey, that way.... and believe me it gets out FAST.

rcsodak
02-16-2011, 05:22 PM
No. Don't franchise tag a player if your plans are to ONLY keep him around for one year. Thats TERRIBLE management, and HORRENDOUS player relations. You only franchise tag a player you do not want toleave, and plan on extending with a long-term contract. Simply placing a tag on a guy for a one year rental is a way to slap a guy in the face.

These players are friends, they talk, they twitter, the go out.... and they share agents. You treat a classy guy, like Bailey, that way.... and believe me it gets out FAST.
Not to mention, 15 MIIIIIIIILION DOLLARS!
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rcsodak
02-16-2011, 05:24 PM
What's wrong with you?! I don't care what others say...I want to see or hear it come from champ. Do you know Lynch/Klis you would trust everything they say? We can talk about a lot of stuff, Champs conversation with Lynch couldve been like:

Lynch: "champ in a couple of years you should think about moving to safety to prolong your career"
Champ: "that might not be a bad Idea something to think about"

Now Lynch can say they talked about it. Like I said until I HEAR champ say he will move to safety I wont believe it. I hear Jeter will move to outfield I wont believe it till I hear him say he will.
Miss the" :grin:"?
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vandammage13
02-16-2011, 05:30 PM
No. Don't franchise tag a player if your plans are to ONLY keep him around for one year. Thats TERRIBLE management, and HORRENDOUS player relations. You only franchise tag a player you do not want toleave, and plan on extending with a long-term contract. Simply placing a tag on a guy for a one year rental is a way to slap a guy in the face.

These players are friends, they talk, they twitter, the go out.... and they share agents. You treat a classy guy, like Bailey, that way.... and believe me it gets out FAST.

I'm not saying not to sign him (although I wouldn't sign him to anything more than 3 years, not sure how long of a deal he's looking for). Franchise him, give him an offer later, and if he doesn't like the offer then he can walk.

I really think it would be a mistake to let him walk right now...If you Franchise him, at least that gives you another year to work out a deal. If he still walks after that, then at least you can say you gave it a shot while still getting 1 more year out of him.

No players like getting franchised, but every team franchises somebody, so I don't see how franchising Champ would put the Broncos in a bad light in the eyes of the players when it happens all the time (so long as they still offer him some sort of deal).

rcsodak
02-16-2011, 05:37 PM
Nobody knows:
1. If the Ftag will be in the new cba.
2. What, if anything, the cap will be.

AND ITS 15 MIIIIIIILLION DOLLARS!
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BigSarge87
02-16-2011, 05:57 PM
Nobody knows:
1. If the Ftag will be in the new cba.
2. What, if anything, the cap will be.

AND ITS 15 MIIIIIIILLION DOLLARS!
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That's not much, really. I spend more than that on one player in Madden all the time!

(Joking)

rcsodak
02-16-2011, 06:01 PM
That's not much, really. I spend more than that on one player in Madden all the time!

(Joking)

Lol.
Plus, there's some question on whether FA's will even be "free" to go where they want. Im sure it'd be cheaper to have him back at last yrs salary if that's the case.
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Ravage!!!
02-16-2011, 06:43 PM
I'm not saying not to sign him (although I wouldn't sign him to anything more than 3 years, not sure how long of a deal he's looking for). Franchise him, give him an offer later, and if he doesn't like the offer then he can walk.

I really think it would be a mistake to let him walk right now...If you Franchise him, at least that gives you another year to work out a deal. If he still walks after that, then at least you can say you gave it a shot while still getting 1 more year out of him.

No players like getting franchised, but every team franchises somebody, so I don't see how franchising Champ would put the Broncos in a bad light in the eyes of the players when it happens all the time (so long as they still offer him some sort of deal).


They could. But last year Champ was willing to lower his asking price and sign the extension that the Broncos had on the table.. DESPITE it being lower with the upfront money that he was initially willing to go under. Thats fine, thats part of negotions. But bfore he could sign the papers, McDaniels pulls the offer from the table.

Now you have Champ, who's done nothing but pull the company line, playing the entire season with no extension. That means the entire season he's playing FULL risk to him. If he gets hurt, there is no future contract. But he does his job, and doesn't miss games to keep his health.

Now you want the company to basically force a 1 year contract on him, that he can't refuse, to keep him around for another 1 year contract so that he again, will be taking all the risk.

Thats not how you deal with your quality players. Thats not how you treat the best in the business,because treating a guy that is a favorite in the locker room like that, bleeds down through the ranks.... quickly.

If they want to keep him around for multiple years.. then offer him a reasonable multi-year contract. One that still pays out the 15 million guaranteed. You sign him to that one-year franchise tag, and its insulting on principle.

Also.... its already known that there will be a franchise tag in the next CBA. Thats already been established, and made very well clear.