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broncobryce
01-27-2011, 10:18 PM
I'm sure most of you already saw this, but it's an interesting column.

I'd really like to see Williams and Moreno team up, but what I really want to see is the Broncos go back to zone-blocking, which I think will make a return. Fox did tell me, and I will write about this in a column, that he would rather go with his worst running play than a pass play.

http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_17210479

CrazyHorse
01-27-2011, 11:03 PM
I don't want to see Ultra-Conservative Marty Ball.

underrated29
01-27-2011, 11:11 PM
I don't want to see Ultra-Conservative Marty Ball.



Oh its going to happen, which is why i am on suicide watch.

broncobryce
01-27-2011, 11:51 PM
I don't want to see Ultra-Conservative Marty Ball.

I wouldn't be shocked. Might help with the development of Tebow for awhile. I'm okay with the idea of it for now.
I will wait to see what happens/how I feel when the season hits.

Lonestar
01-28-2011, 12:22 AM
Have not liked the ZBs since TD left. Or that oline atleast.

It was a novelty then and now they have it beat by good to great 3-4 teams.

And enough othe teams that run it now that most know that I'd you stay home they can beat it also.

No longer a novelty. So it is IMHO a waste of time.
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dogfish
01-28-2011, 01:03 AM
I wouldn't be shocked. Might help with the development of Tebow for awhile. I'm okay with the idea of it for now.
I will wait to see what happens/how I feel when the season hits.

oh come on-- next year won't be exciting if tebow doesn't chuck it five-six hundred times. . . .

jhildebrand
01-28-2011, 01:04 AM
I don't want to see Ultra-Conservative Marty Ball.

If it meanse going 14-2 in his second year here a la Marty in San Diego, than I will take that all day long :salute:

topscribe
01-28-2011, 01:47 AM
Have not liked the ZBs since TD left. Or that oline atleast.

It was a novelty then and now they have it beat by good to great 3-4 teams.

And enough othe teams that run it now that most know that I'd you stay home they can beat it also.

No longer a novelty. So it is IMHO a waste of time.
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Sorry, my friend, but I cannot agree with you. The Broncos won the SB
with ZBS. They went into the playoffs four times in six years, between
2000 and 2006, with ZBS. They were considered a standard of the league
in rushing when they had ZBS.

And since they deserted it, they have fallen to the dregs of the league in
the running game.

If they return to ZBS, I will be clicking my heels . . . :beer:

-----

topscribe
01-28-2011, 01:52 AM
You know, I may be an oddball in this respect, but to me one of the most
exciting plays in football is seeing a RB bust off-tackle for a 19 yard run.

That is, if he is a Bronco at the time . . .

-----

silkamilkamonico
01-28-2011, 02:51 AM
I don't want to see Ultra-Conservative Marty Ball.

Get ready, it is coming.

With Tebow, Denver could become the first NFL team (that I know of) to move to some assemblance of the option.

:yawn: :sleeping:

Lonestar
01-28-2011, 03:22 AM
Sorry, my friend, but I cannot agree with you. The Broncos won the SB
with ZBS. They went into the playoffs four times in six years, between
2000 and 2006, with ZBS. They were considered a standard of the league
in rushing when they had ZBS.
And since they deserted it, they have fallen to the dregs of the league in
the running game If they return to ZBS, I will be clicking my heels . . . :beer:
-----
Yep went ro the playoffs and each time got stuffed.

It get Bogged downwhwn the let's some god gone wildjiàes.
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dogfish
01-28-2011, 03:39 AM
Yep went ro the playoffs and each time got stuffed.

It get Bogged downwhwn the let's some god gone wildjiàes.
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is this spanglish, or did you drop your phone in water?


:rofl:


i almost sprayed beer out my nose. . .

i know typing on those little keyboards is a pain in the ass, but that's more illegible than shank when he's toasted. . .

seriously, what is "wildjiàes?"

is that some patois or something?

Northman
01-28-2011, 04:28 AM
is this spanglish, or did you drop your phone in water?


:rofl:


i almost sprayed beer out my nose. . .

i know typing on those little keyboards is a pain in the ass, but that's more illegible than shank when he's toasted. . .

seriously, what is "wildjiàes?"

is that some patois or something?


:lol::lol::lol:

I was thinking the same thing. That was some funny shit right there. Im starting to think that Jr really is Antonio Cromartie. haha

Poet
01-28-2011, 04:31 AM
You guys are mean.

dogfish
01-28-2011, 04:38 AM
You guys are mean.

king, i love JR despite some of his whacky stances, but that shit was just funny. . .


now go get me a sandwich. . . :D

Poet
01-28-2011, 04:45 AM
king, i love JR despite some of his whacky stances, but that shit was just funny. . .


now go get me a sandwich. . . :D

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See that split down the middle? That's your bwhahahha sammich, beyotch!

dogfish
01-28-2011, 04:58 AM
man, i seriously hope you cut and pasted that. . . .

Poet
01-28-2011, 06:01 AM
man, i seriously hope you cut and pasted that. . . .

hand made bitch! ****!

Juriga72
01-28-2011, 08:31 AM
Fox's offense the last 5 years in Carolina were 27th, 7th, 21st, 26th, 23rd in points scored........

"A 3 yard run and a cloud of dust" here we come....He has the same feelings about passing as Woody Hayes.....cept he doesnt punch the other teams guy...

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 08:40 AM
Wildjiàes- Means abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality". People suffering from wildjiàes are described as psychotic.
Also used as a term in the American southwest by native american indians to describe a jackass or donkey.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 08:44 AM
Oh, and if DEN is gonna run the shiat outta the football, than they better get someone who can actually play RB in the NFL.

http://www.nfltouchdown.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/deangelo-williams.jpg

honz
01-28-2011, 10:48 AM
Mike McCoy told me he doesn't give a **** what Fox says about the offense.

honz
01-28-2011, 10:49 AM
People complain about Moreno being injury prone as they clamor for Deangelo Williams who has been IR'd the past two seasons.

The Glue Factory
01-28-2011, 10:50 AM
Fox's offense the last 5 years in Carolina were 27th, 7th, 21st, 26th, 23rd in points scored........

"A 3 yard run and a cloud of dust" here we come....He has the same feelings about passing as Woody Hayes.....cept he doesnt punch the other teams guy...

If that's the case I'd give Fox at most 1 year before the lynch mob will be back begging for a different coach. Then again, McCoy is calling plays and game planning so either McCoy's going to do what it takes to win games (and possibly get him fired for passing to much) or he'll cowtow to his boss and we'll see the lynch mob again.

I'm praying that the coaching staff look at what the heck they got under the hood and leave their pre-conceived notions at the door. It seems like the Broncos have been the dumping ground for people to force our players into their mold rather than analyzing what they have and playing on their strengths.

Not sure what the next few (2 to 5) holds for us, but it's gotta be better than the last 1.5+

The Glue Factory
01-28-2011, 10:51 AM
Mike McCoy told me he doesn't give a **** what Fox says about the offense.

I pray that's true and that it doesn't get him fired, err allowed to pursue other opportunities, or whatever else they want to call it.

OrangeHoof
01-28-2011, 10:55 AM
Houston, under Kubiak, is still WCO and may have been the last team to try ZBS when Gibbs was their OL coach a couple of years ago. ZBS became less effective when the league banned cut-blocking at the LOS and the more aggressive 3-4s like Pittsburgh and Baltimore had our number most of the time even before that.

Yes, the ZBS was great for its time but that time has passed. It's evolution. Every offense is eventually figured out and defeated. I remember when the Run and Shoot became a fad and it billed itself as having an answer for every defense because it was totally responsive to what the defense did. That lasted about 3-4 years until defensive coaches realized they could dictate shorter pass routes and then beat up the receiver who caught the pass.

Right now, spread offenses are the fad in college and the NFL has adopted portions of it but this too will be figured out, just as the "Wildcat" is no longer as effective as it was when it was first sprung.

If I were a coach, my philosophy would be to zig when the rest of the league zags. If the fad is to pass all the time, I figure out how to put the best run offense on the field. If the trend is for everyone to run a 3-4, I find the best 4-3 talent I can. Because teams look for personnel that fit their system (Steelers, in particular, are quite successful doing this) and if the rest of the league is hot for the best players to run Defense X, they are letting guys slide down the draft board who are better fits for Defense Y. That's how specialized scouting has become.

So, I'd load up on the best run-blockers, the best power backs, the best 4-3 defenders and make other teams have to adjust and prepare for me instead of running a me-too system where I'm just running the same crap that other teams can do better.

He may be "crazy like a Fox". After all, he did make the playoffs a few times and got to one Super Bowl with lesser talent, particularly on offense.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 11:26 AM
People complain about Moreno being injury prone as they clamor for Deangelo Williams who has been IR'd the past two seasons.

The difference is DeAngelo Williams actually belongs in the NFL and has the ability to be a superstar, where as Knowshow Moreno couldnt start for a CFL team.

atwater27
01-28-2011, 11:31 AM
Have not liked the ZBs since TD left. Or that oline atleast.

Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

You liked TD? Color me shocked!

cardoso
01-28-2011, 11:41 AM
People complain about Moreno being injury prone as they clamor for Deangelo Williams who has been IR'd the past two seasons.

Moreno has missed both preseasons and training camps in his two years in the nfl due to injury. He pulls hammies getting off the couch and to top it off he SUCKS!

Deangelo Williams can play and i'd take him over moreno any day of the week and 10 times on sundays. Moreno was a disaster of a pick! A freaken waste of high pick on a damn offensive player to add salt to the wound. One of the many great moves by Mcdaniels in Denver.

vandammage13
01-28-2011, 11:49 AM
I am cool with being a predominately running team as long as we have the personnel to be good at it. I hate offenses that just run for the sake of running, even when it is clear that they are not good at it.

I do think that we will be one of the top running teams next year in terms of YPG, but I think that will have more to do with Tebow adding like 50 yards a game scrambling on broken plays rather than just on designed runs by the RB.

Hopefully, our coaching staff will not be stubborn and instead just run an offense that bests suits our personnel rather than just running the ball because it fits their philosophy of what the would like the team to be.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 11:53 AM
I am cool with being a predominately running team as long as we have the personnel to be good at it. I hate offenses that just run for the sake of running, even when it is clear that they are not good at it.

I do think that we will be one of the top running teams next year in terms of YPG, but I think that will have more to do with Tebow getting like 50 yards a game scrambling on broken plays rather than on designed runs by the RB.

Hopefully, our coaching staff will not be stubborn and instead just run an offense that bests suits our personnel rather than just running the ball because it fits their philosophy of what the would like the team to be.

Or we get this guy,
http://www.2010-super-bowl.com/Carolina_Panthers/DeAngelo-Williams.jpg
and do eactly what Fox wants to do with the football on offense.
Here.. wait a min...OK.Done
http://www.stopgettingcheated.com/images/computer-easy-button.jpg
Man, that was easy.

vandammage13
01-28-2011, 11:57 AM
Or we get this guy,
http://www.2010-super-bowl.com/Carolina_Panthers/DeAngelo-Williams.jpg
and do eactly what Fox wants to do with the football on offense.
Here.. wait a min...OK.Done
http://www.stopgettingcheated.com/images/computer-easy-button.jpg
Man, that was easy.

lol...I wish it were that easy, but you do realize that D.Williams only had 87 carries last year and also missed 3 games in 2009. Maybe he can have a resurgance, but something tells me he peaked a couple of years ago and is past his prime now.

Juriga72
01-28-2011, 11:58 AM
Moreno has 11 games the last two years with 10 or fewer carries.....


LMAO @ Kno "Being a NFL running back"

vandammage13
01-28-2011, 12:01 PM
Moreno has 11 games the last two years with 10 or fewer carries.....


LMAO @ Kno "Being a NFL running back"

Yeah, Moreno's probably never going to pan out as a #1 feature back, but most teams split carries nowadays anyway, so I'm willing to give him one more year to prove he can stay healthy before I give up on him.

Moreno does seem to be the Matthew Stafford of young RBs so far though.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 12:14 PM
lol...I wish it were that easy, but you do realize that D.Williams only had 87 carries last year and also missed 3 games in 2009. Maybe he can have a resurgance, but something tells me he peaked a couple of years ago and is past his prime now.

Dude, you crazy.

honz
01-28-2011, 12:28 PM
The difference is DeAngelo Williams actually belongs in the NFL and has the ability to be a superstar, where as Knowshow Moreno couldnt start for a CFL team.
He did average over 4 YPC as an NFL starter. I'm guessing a CFL team may take a chance on him.

honz
01-28-2011, 12:31 PM
Yeah, Moreno's probably never going to pan out as a #1 feature back, but most teams split carries nowadays anyway, so I'm willing to give him one more year to prove he can stay healthy before I give up on him.

Moreno does seem to be the Matthew Stafford of young RBs so far though.
Beanie Wells and Donald Brown have both had significant injury problems in their first 2 seasons...they were both 1st round picks along with Knowshon. I will be here all week correcting mistaken Broncos fans. You are welcome.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 12:54 PM
He did average over 4 YPC as an NFL starter. I'm guessing a CFL team may take a chance on him.

Lawrence Maroney ave around 4 YPC too, so thats not saying much.
I guess if theres a CFL team desperate enough to take a guy who
cant block, is slow, and can get on the field, we should make that trade Knowshow now, and keep the other slomo.

honz
01-28-2011, 01:08 PM
Lawrence Maroney ave around 4 YPC too, so thats not saying much.
I guess if theres a CFL team desperate enough to take a guy who
cant block, is slow, and can get on the field, we should make that trade Knowshow now, and keep the other slomo.

Knowshon averaged 4.3 YPC on 182 carries. Ball averaged 3.9 on 41 carries. Bucky averaged 2.5 on 59 carries. Maroney averaged 2.1 on 36 carries. Again, I'm here all week so you might as well get all of your untrue facts off your chest whilst I'm available.

topscribe
01-28-2011, 01:19 PM
Mike McCoy told me he doesn't give a **** what Fox says about the offense.

Coach Fox asked me to tell McCoy he wants to see McCoy in his office immediately.

Oh, and bring his playbook . . .

-----

honz
01-28-2011, 01:22 PM
McCoy appears to be backtracking from his previous statements.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 01:24 PM
Knowshon averaged 4.3 YPC on 182 carries. Ball averaged 3.9 on 41 carries. Bucky averaged 2.5 on 59 carries. Maroney averaged 2.1 on 36 carries. Again, I'm here all week so you might as well get all of your untrue facts off your chest whilst I'm available.

Heres your original post.
"He did average over 4 YPC as an NFL starter. I'm guessing a CFL team may take a chance on him."
No where did you mention one years production, f-stick. Not that it matters though.

Heres the facts for SlowMo as a starter.
Career: 49 G, 22 TD, 2504 Yds, 4.1 Y/A

You still available d-bag? Or are you now just goin off of 36 woppin carries last year, in one season?

Both Maroney/Knowshow = EXACTLY the same.

BroncoJoe
01-28-2011, 01:35 PM
I'll wait until Knowshon has a year to play with a real head coach.

4.0 average per carry - give him the ball three times = 1st down.

Stats can work in either direction.

honz
01-28-2011, 01:48 PM
Heres your original post.
"He did average over 4 YPC as an NFL starter. I'm guessing a CFL team may take a chance on him."
No where did you mention one years production, f-stick. Not that it matters though.

Heres the facts for SlowMo as a starter.
Career: 49 G, 22 TD, 2504 Yds, 4.1 Y/A

You still available d-bag? Or are you now just goin off of 36 woppin carries last year, in one season?

Both Maroney/Knowshow = EXACTLY the same.
I was using last years numbers because it would be virtually worthless to compare Maroney's and Moreno's numbers on different teams, with different players, coaches and schemes. Selvin Young averaged around 5 YPC for the Broncos, along with countless other RB's. Are all those RB's better than MJD, Chris Johnson, Peterson, etc?

Being able to see them on the same team this year, in the same offense, with the same blockers clearly showed that Moreno is the superior back, at least at this point in time.

And yes, I'm still available.

honz
01-28-2011, 01:53 PM
I think we can all agree that Frank Gore is better than Moreno, though.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 01:53 PM
I was using last years numbers because it would be virtually worthless to compare Maroney's and Moreno's numbers on different teams, with different players, coaches and schemes. Selvin Young averaged around 5 YPC for the Broncos, along with countless other RB's. Are all those RB's better than MJD, Chris Johnson, Peterson, etc?

Being able to see them on the same team this year, in the same offense, with the same blockers clearly showed that Moreno is the superior back, at least at this point in time.

And yes, I'm still available.

Whatever. Doesnt change the fact that Moreno, while he seems to run hard, cant block to save his life and hes plain slow. Hes never running away from anyone.
So DeAngelo Williams or Knowshow Moreno?
Who you got? Who you takin?

topscribe
01-28-2011, 01:57 PM
I was using last years numbers because it would be virtually worthless to compare Maroney's and Moreno's numbers on different teams, with different players, coaches and schemes. Selvin Young averaged around 5 YPC for the Broncos, along with countless other RB's. Are all those RB's better than MJD, Chris Johnson, Peterson, etc?

Being able to see them on the same team this year, in the same offense, with the same blockers clearly showed that Moreno is the superior back, at least at this point in time.

And yes, I'm still available.

To listen to the coaches, they left no doubt that Moreno is the best back.
Problem is, it's just like Selvin's case. In pure running ability, I would place
Selvin in the same breath as the better backs in the league. He was just
fragile, that's all . . . a problem that Moreno has seemed to incur. If Moreno
can stay healthy, I fully believe he will do very well.

But I would still love to see the Broncos pick up Williams . . .

-----

honz
01-28-2011, 02:10 PM
I think we can all agree that Frank Gore is better than Moreno, though.

Or can we?

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn156/ammccray/Picture7-1.png

Cugel
01-28-2011, 02:17 PM
Sorry, my friend, but I cannot agree with you. The Broncos won the SB
with ZBS. They went into the playoffs four times in six years, between
2000 and 2006, with ZBS. They were considered a standard of the league
in rushing when they had ZBS.

And since they deserted it, they have fallen to the dregs of the league in
the running game.

If they return to ZBS, I will be clicking my heels . . . :beer:

-----

Unfortunately Fox and his OC are fans of the power running attack, so I don't see it happening. But, it would sure be great!

The BEST thing about the ZBS is that most teams don't run it (more do now than previously of course) so it's possible to find smaller, more athletic OL in the later rounds, since you don't need to compete with every other team in the league for bull-dozer sized OL.

Kuper is a perfect example of this -- selected in the 6th round. Ryan Harris is another. It seemed every year Shanahan was able to find starting OL in the 6th or 7th round or even as undrafted FAs.

You can't do that with the traditional power running attack because every other team is competing for those same Super-sized OL.

underrated29
01-28-2011, 02:18 PM
What we can agree on is that knowshon has 22 tds in 2 years.



3 years ago, EVERYONE b****ed about yards are great but its inside the 20s that matter.

So we go out and get a guy that has averaged 11 tds!!! in 2 years while not playing a complete season in either year, While playing on the last or next to last rushing team. And yet people wanna bytch now that he does not have 1k yards or whatever else.


Cant have it both ways, pick one thing to bytch about and leave the other alone.





PS- he has gone over 1k all purpose yards in back to back years. Do any teams complain about a RB who goes over 1k and 11 tds? I do not know of one team that would. Hell, Seattle would kill for that.

topscribe
01-28-2011, 02:19 PM
Whatever. Doesnt change the fact that Moreno, while he seems to run hard, cant block to save his life and hes plain slow. Hes never running away from anyone.
So DeAngelo Williams or Knowshow Moreno?
Who you got? Who you takin?

Moreno is not slow. He is no DeSean Jackson, but he is not slow. He is
every bit as fast as TD was, which was fast enough to star in the league,
obviously.

And he can block better than you say, too. Again, no Mike Anderson, but
he does block.

Moreno's only problem is health. That's the bone I have to pick with him . . .

-----

honz
01-28-2011, 02:23 PM
Also, I'm really glad I closed that tab with a child porn site opened up on it this morning before I took that screenshot. I've never taken a screenshot using that method and had no idea it would show my tabs...phew!

Cugel
01-28-2011, 02:23 PM
You know what I got out of looking at Honz's chart?

That Peyton Hillis and Ryan Torain combined for over 1900 yards and 15 TDs while friggin' Knowshon freakin' Moreno got 779 and 4. :coffee:

And no, I'm not going to let it go. I still have fantasies about punching Josh McDaniels in the face.

Cugel
01-28-2011, 02:25 PM
Moreno's only problem is health. That's the bone I have to pick with him . . .-----

The bone I have to pick with him is that he was taken with the 12th pick of the draft instead of Brian Orakpo. And he will never live up to his draft status. :coffee:

silkamilkamonico
01-28-2011, 02:26 PM
Whatever. Doesnt change the fact that Moreno, while he seems to run hard, cant block to save his life and hes plain slow. Hes never running away from anyone.
So DeAngelo Williams or Knowshow Moreno?
Who you got? Who you takin?

If that's the best we have to choose from, we might as well just move to Los Angeles.

underrated29
01-28-2011, 02:31 PM
The bone I have to pick with him is that he was taken with the 12th pick of the draft instead of Brian Orakpo. And he will never live up to his draft status. :coffee:



Orak only had 3 more sacks than our MLB DJ williams, who is not lined up to sack the QB like Orak is.


I like Orak attack, but could it maybe be that he has greatly benefited from the talent around him? I would still love to have him here, but Not in place of moreno.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 02:37 PM
Moreno is not slow. He is no DeSean Jackson, but he is not slow. He is
every bit as fast as TD was, which was fast enough to star in the league,
obviously.

And he can block better than you say, too. Again, no Mike Anderson, but
he does block.

Moreno's only problem is health. That's the bone I have to pick with him . . .

-----

Hes slow. By that i mean when he gets into the open field at the 2nd level, (which is rare) he has poor vision, and because he cant run decisively, hes slow. By the time he figures out which way to go, defenders are on him.
No wonder he gets injured all the time.
I dont mean his 40 time is slow.
Hes not quick with his decision making. Seems its mental as well as physical.
As a blocker, hes indecisive as well! He doesnt take them on with authority, and it looks like he just plain doesnt like getting trucked, or trucking opposing players. And it shows cause opposing teams just feed off of it. Plus like you said hes injury prone, so opposing players dont fear him. At all.
Speed kills, and being decisive as a RB with speed turns into TDs.
Knowshow has neither.

I know its a highlight video, but just watch what a true speed demon with decisive running skills can do to opposing teams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQDQnWYDVTk&feature=related

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 02:38 PM
Orak only had 3 more sacks than our MLB DJ williams, who is not lined up to sack the QB like Orak is.


I like Orak attack, but could it maybe be that he has greatly benefited from the talent around him? I would still love to have him here, but Not in place of moreno.

OK. What about Clay Matthews?

underrated29
01-28-2011, 02:56 PM
OK. What about Clay Matthews?



Man Beast.

OrangeHoof
01-28-2011, 02:59 PM
I have this fantasy of Tim Tebow, Vince Young and Cam Newton in a triple option offense where all three have run/pass options. I even have a name for it - the Oreo Offense. And Timmy can lead them in Bible Study after the game so they'll stay away from strip clubs.

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 03:01 PM
Man Beast.

Could of had Brandon Pettigrew, TE Oklahoma State at #12 too.
Just sayin..

topscribe
01-28-2011, 03:10 PM
Hes slow. By that i mean when he gets into the open field at the 2nd level, (which is rare) he has poor vision, and because he cant run decisively, hes slow. By the time he figures out which way to go, defenders are on him.
No wonder he gets injured all the time.
I dont mean his 40 time is slow.
Hes not quick with his decision making. Seems its mental as well as physical.
As a blocker, hes indecisive as well! He doesnt take them on with authority, and it looks like he just plain doesnt like getting trucked, or trucking opposing players. And it shows cause opposing teams just feed off of it. Plus like you said hes injury prone, so opposing players dont fear him. At all.
Speed kills, and being decisive as a RB with speed turns into TDs.
Knowshow has neither.

I know its a highlight video, but just watch what a true speed demon with decisive running skills can do to opposing teams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQDQnWYDVTk&feature=related

My friend, I have seen speed ever since Mel Farr, Joe Washington, Gayle
Sayers, etc. on up to the present. I know what speed can do. I also know
what TD did. If we could have TD back in his prime, I could care less about
the speed backs.

But I realize Moreno is no TD. As I said, I would be tickled if the Broncos
could get Williams . . .

-----

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 03:35 PM
My friend, I have seen speed ever since Mel Farr, Joe Washington, Gayle
Sayers, etc. on up to the present. I know what speed can do. I also know
what TD did. If we could have TD back in his prime, I could care less about
the speed backs.

But I realize Moreno is no TD. As I said, I would be tickled if the Broncos
could get Williams . . .

-----

I understand what your sayin.
And TD wasnt a burner, but he had incredible vision, and footwork and could make people miss. Plus he was that special kind of back that was powerful as well. I know TD got injured, but he was damn durable in his time too.
I just think some speed, and a true cailbur RB on this offense is just what the DR. ordered.
open things up a bit, and take alot of the pressure of of TT next year.

topscribe
01-28-2011, 03:39 PM
I understand what your sayin.
And TD wasnt a burner, but he had incredible vision, and footwork and could make people miss. Plus he was that special kind of back that was powerful as well. I know TD got injured, but he was damn durable in his time too.
I just think some speed, and a true cailbur RB on this offense is just what the DR. ordered.
open things up a bit, and take alot of the pressure of of TT next year.

. . . or whoever is the QB. I agree. :D

-----

SOCALORADO.
01-28-2011, 03:44 PM
. . . or whoever is the QB. I agree. :D

-----

Yeah, gotta stay politically correct here. :D

topscribe
01-28-2011, 03:49 PM
Yeah, gotta stay politically correct here. :D

Oh, we can expect a visit from Juriga anytime, now that I have said it. :laugh:

-----

ladypanther
01-28-2011, 09:37 PM
Fox's offense the last 5 years in Carolina were 27th, 7th, 21st, 26th, 23rd in points scored........

"A 3 yard run and a cloud of dust" here we come....He has the same feelings about passing as Woody Hayes.....cept he doesnt punch the other teams guy...

Welcome to Foxball. He seemed to play not to lose rather than play to win. Got some luck a couple of times, but in 9 years, never had back to back winning seasons. His best coaching job with the Panthers was probably his first year.

It will be interesting to see how he does in Denver.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-29-2011, 09:15 AM
Welcome to Foxball. He seemed to play not to lose rather than play to win. Got some luck a couple of times, but in 9 years, never had back to back winning seasons. His best coaching job with the Panthers was probably his first year.

It will be interesting to see how he does in Denver.



Better than our last coach who "played to win", unfortunately, when something went right in the offense he stopped using it (like the running game) and when the defense picked up on something (like the bubble screen), we continued to use it repeatedly until we lost. And lose we did... 4-12. It's just sad when the fans at home and the announcers in the booth can call all of your offensive plays pre-snap... I'd rather run when the defense knows we're running and can't stop it (as Fox's offenses typically do) than pass when they know you're passing and go 3 and out all the time.

I hope Rivera is good for you guys over in Carolina and doesn't turn out to be another Josh McDaniels. Not that you guys, thanks to your ownership trying to save money by kneecapping your players and coaching staff, are probably going to be competitive anytime soon anyway...

Juriga72
01-29-2011, 09:29 AM
Yeah, gotta stay politically correct here. :D

Very true... Otherwise "highly respected posters" wont be able to have their "Civil Unions called marriages"

broncobryce
01-29-2011, 01:11 PM
Better than our last coach who "played to win", unfortunately, when something went right in the offense he stopped using it (like the running game) and when the defense picked up on something (like the bubble screen), we continued to use it repeatedly until we lost. And lose we did... 4-12. It's just sad when the fans at home and the announcers in the booth can call all of your offensive plays pre-snap... I'd rather run when the defense knows we're running and can't stop it (as Fox's offenses typically do) than pass when they know you're passing and go 3 and out all the time.

I hope Rivera is good for you guys over in Carolina and doesn't turn out to be another Josh McDaniels. Not that you guys, thanks to your ownership trying to save money by kneecapping your players and coaching staff, are probably going to be competitive anytime soon anyway...

What do you mean.....they've got Jimmy Clausen!!!! :rolleyes:

Juriga72
01-29-2011, 01:23 PM
Fat Charlie called Jimmy "Ten times the quarterback prospect Tom Brady was"...

so......

ladypanther
01-30-2011, 06:29 PM
Better than our last coach who "played to win", unfortunately, when something went right in the offense he stopped using it (like the running game) and when the defense picked up on something (like the bubble screen), we continued to use it repeatedly until we lost. And lose we did... 4-12. It's just sad when the fans at home and the announcers in the booth can call all of your offensive plays pre-snap... I'd rather run when the defense knows we're running and can't stop it (as Fox's offenses typically do) than pass when they know you're passing and go 3 and out all the time.

I hope Rivera is good for you guys over in Carolina and doesn't turn out to be another Josh McDaniels. Not that you guys, thanks to your ownership trying to save money by kneecapping your players and coaching staff, are probably going to be competitive anytime soon anyway...

The "cheap" label on the owner is unfair. He paid Fox around $6 million this year. The team did get rid of some vets and contracts that were not going to be part of the future. One of Fox's traits has been to hold on to vets too long. That was this past year only. Otherwise, Fox had his way with the personnel.

Fox is a good man and the players love him. His downside is not making adjustments. He does not make adjustments in a game. He also has not made overall strategy changes to keep up with the game or to keep other teams guessing. I always hoped that he would make some adjustments...he never did. To be successful in Denver, Fox has to do some major soul searching and develop some smart flexibility.

He also needs to develop an appreciation for what a good QB can do. Fox did not like to draft or develop QB's. The Panthers are in the pitiful QB situation they are in because Fox would not draft a QB.

Fox did well at first when he came to Carolina. He took 1-15 team to the SB in 2 years. However, the concerns started showing up the SB year. That year, the Panthers were known as the "Cardiac Cats' because of all the last minute wins. Behind that was the fact that in those games, when the Panthers had a lead, they quit playing.

Despite going to the SB in yr 2, Fox only had 3 winning seasons out of 9. He never had back to back winning seasons. Fox got and kept the players he wanted until the last year.

As I said, Fox is a good man. His players will be high character guys. I hope for the Broncos' sake he has made some changes in his approach. The worry is, getting a HC job so fast does not lend itself to the kind of evaluation that would have been helpful.

By the way:


It's just sad when the fans at home and the announcers in the booth can call all of your offensive plays pre-snap.


That was our experience too this past year.


Good luck. I like the Broncos. And I liked Fox....he just was not a very good HC. If he becomes one....good for him.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-30-2011, 06:38 PM
The "cheap" label on the owner is unfair. He paid Fox around $6 million this year. The team did get rid of some vets and contracts that were not going to be part of the future. One of Fox's traits has been to hold on to vets too long. That was this past year only. Otherwise, Fox had his way with the personnel.

Fox is a good man and the players love him. His downside is not making adjustments. He does not make adjustments in a game. He also has not made overall strategy changes to keep up with the game or to keep other teams guessing. I always hoped that he would make some adjustments...he never did. To be successful in Denver, Fox has to do some major soul searching and develop some smart flexibility.

He also needs to develop an appreciation for what a good QB can do. Fox did not like to draft or develop QB's. The Panthers are in the pitiful QB situation they are in because Fox would not draft a QB.

Fox did well at first when he came to Carolina. He took 1-15 team to the SB in 2 years. However, the concerns started showing up the SB year. That year, the Panthers were known as the "Cardiac Cats' because of all the last minute wins. Behind that was the fact that in those games, when the Panthers had a lead, they quit playing.

Despite going to the SB in yr 2, Fox only had 3 winning seasons out of 9. He never had back to back winning seasons. Fox got and kept the players he wanted until the last year.

As I said, Fox is a good man. His players will be high character guys. I hope for the Broncos' sake he has made some changes in his approach. The worry is, getting a HC job so fast does not lend itself to the kind of evaluation that would have been helpful.

By the way:



That was our experience too this past year.


Good luck. I like the Broncos. And I liked Fox....he just was not a very good HC. If he becomes one....good for him.



In reading this - it appears that Fox had full and final say so in everything - i.e.

Not making game adjustments - I would think that would fall, as much, or more, on the OC and DC.

Not drafting a QB - did Fox have final say so in drafts?

Again, holding onto vets to long - did Fox have sole say so in this?

Fox got and kept the players he wanted - again, did Fox have sole say so in this?

ladypanther
01-30-2011, 07:05 PM
In reading this - it appears that Fox had full and final say so in everything - i.e.

Not making game adjustments - I would think that would fall, as much, or more, on the OC and DC.

Not drafting a QB - did Fox have final say so in drafts?

Again, holding onto vets to long - did Fox have sole say so in this?

Fox got and kept the players he wanted - again, did Fox have sole say so in this?

Fox's philosophy drove the team until the last year, as I said.

The not drafting a QB was on Fox. He has been open about not liking to draft QB's.

Yes, the vets were Fox too.

Fox hired the OC's and DC's. During his tenure there were 2 OC's and 2 DC's. Pretty much the same result with both sets.

As I said, I hope his new job will find him willing to be more flexible. That he is still saying that he would rather run his worst running play rather than pass is not encouraging. (He was not known to say that out loud in Carolina. )

He is a good man. Hope he becomes a good head coach.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-30-2011, 07:23 PM
Fox's philosophy drove the team until the last year, as I said.

The not drafting a QB was on Fox. He has been open about not liking to draft QB's.

Yes, the vets were Fox too.

Fox hired the OC's and DC's. During his tenure there were 2 OC's and 2 DC's. Pretty much the same result with both sets.

As I said, I hope his new job will find him willing to be more flexible. That he is still saying that he would rather run his worst running play rather than pass is not encouraging. (He was not known to say that out loud in Carolina. )

He is a good man. Hope he becomes a good head coach.

Guess I'm confused on Fox not drafting QB's - last year, he drafted three - Clausen in the 2nd round, Edwards in the 3rd round, and Pike in the 6th round. Apparently, Carolina did not have a pick in the 1st round last year, so the first pick they had was in the 2nd round, which was a QB - Clausen.

http://www.panthers.com/schedule/nfl-draft-2010.html

Juriga72
01-30-2011, 07:34 PM
Guess I'm confused on Fox not drafting QB's - last year, he drafted three - Clausen in the 2nd round, Edwards in the 3rd round, and Pike in the 6th round. Apparently, Carolina did not have a pick in the 1st round last year, so the first pick they had was in the 2nd round, which was a QB - Clausen.

http://www.panthers.com/schedule/nfl-draft-2010.html

Great.... yet another "Draft genius" who addresses the same position with three picks in one year.

WELL... at least it "looks like" we might be ok (granted very slim margins to judge by) with our first rounder last year.

Dreadnought
01-30-2011, 07:40 PM
Great.... yet another "Draft genius" who addresses the same position with three picks in one year.

WELL... at least it "looks like" we might be ok (granted very slim margins to judge by) with our first rounder last year.

What ladypanther was saying was that last year was the first he didn't exercise full control. Drafting 3 QB's looks pretty goofy, but the Panthers dug themselves a hole.

I am in the extreme minority, in that i liked Delhomme for most of his career. His last 2 years have been horrific - which again tracks with a pattern of holding on too long. OTOH, who doesn't miss Trevor Pryce? Seems we pulled that plug rather too early ourselves. Its always a difficult judgement call

Juriga72
01-30-2011, 08:07 PM
Dread....
From what I took from her second post to Carol (Carol asks if he was in charge of the draft, and there is no denial).. God.. IF he didnt draft 3 qb's does McD have a twin out there?




Today, 06:05 PM
ladypanther
Member Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)
In reading this - it appears that Fox had full and final say so in everything - i.e.

Not making game adjustments - I would think that would fall, as much, or more, on the OC and DC.

Not drafting a QB - did Fox have final say so in drafts?

Again, holding onto vets to long - did Fox have sole say so in this?

Fox got and kept the players he wanted - again, did Fox have sole say so in this?





Fox's philosophy drove the team until the last year, as I said.

The not drafting a QB was on Fox. He has been open about not liking to draft QB's.

Yes, the vets were Fox too.

Fox hired the OC's and DC's. During his tenure there were 2 OC's and 2 DC's. Pretty much the same result with both sets.

As I said, I hope his new job will find him willing to be more flexible. That he is still saying that he would rather run his worst running play rather than pass is not encouraging. (He was not known to say that out loud in Carolina. )

He is a good man. Hope he becomes a good head coach.

ladypanther
01-30-2011, 08:55 PM
Guess I'm confused on Fox not drafting QB's - last year, he drafted three - Clausen in the 2nd round, Edwards in the 3rd round, and Pike in the 6th round. Apparently, Carolina did not have a pick in the 1st round last year, so the first pick they had was in the 2nd round, which was a QB - Clausen.

http://www.panthers.com/schedule/nfl-draft-2010.html


Last year the front office took more control over personnel. These were not Fox's picks. FYI...Edwards was drafted to be a receiver.

Lonestar
01-30-2011, 10:37 PM
Last year the front office took more control over personnel. These were not Fox's picks. FYI...Edwards was drafted to be a receiver.

Really be nice if you could post in Black the yellow is impossible to see/read .

ladypanther
01-30-2011, 10:58 PM
Really be nice if you could post in Black the yellow is impossible to see/read .

Thanks. On my computer the black was harder to read. Maybe different browsers?

KCL
01-30-2011, 11:27 PM
is this spanglish, or did you drop your phone in water?


:rofl:


i almost sprayed beer out my nose. . .

i know typing on those little keyboards is a pain in the ass, but that's more illegible than shank when he's toasted. . .

seriously, what is "wildjiàes?"

is that some patois or something?

I thought you understood it since you high5ed his post...:lol:

Juriga72
01-31-2011, 08:33 AM
Last year the front office took more control over personnel. These were not Fox's picks. FYI...Edwards was drafted to be a receiver.

Thanks LP... I had thought they stripped him of drafting after the draft. Of course without a #1 pick last year not really taking much from him....

I stand corrected!! Thank you

rcsodak
01-31-2011, 10:51 AM
I don't want to see Ultra-Conservative Marty Ball.

Careful...you might upset the posters who wanted Marty, and still believe he walks on hallowed ground.

Lonestar
01-31-2011, 11:26 AM
What ladypanther was saying was that last year was the first he didn't exercise full control. Drafting 3 QB's looks pretty goofy, but the Panthers dug themselves a hole.

I am in the extreme minority, in that i liked Delhomme for most of his career. His last 2 years have been horrific - which again tracks with a pattern of holding on too long. OTOH, who doesn't miss Trevor Pryce? Seems we pulled that plug rather too early ourselves. Its always a difficult judgement call

Price was let go because he did not redo his contract. Nothing more nothing less. Plus he wAs not a self motivator , all the while
Scheduled To make 9 mil. Mikey wanted to get under the cap and he said NO. Got cut and had work for a shade over 1 mil the next year. Got a huge wake up call.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

TXBRONC
01-31-2011, 01:27 PM
Mike McCoy told me he doesn't give a **** what Fox says about the offense.

McCoy told me he was just yanking your chain so that you would leave. ;)