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View Full Version : Seriously, something needs to be done on D



weazel
09-21-2008, 06:30 PM
We have lucked out 2 weeks in a row, and didn't look great against oakland either. Something has to be done on the defense, fast. Better to do it now while there is time to do it, than wait until we lose a couple in a row and not have as much time to learn...

This defense literally made me sick today, they totaly stressed me out.

Medford Bronco
09-21-2008, 06:31 PM
We were lucky to win today. I will take it but the defense was pathetic

Thank you Martin Gramatica for missing the kick for us.

jrelway
09-21-2008, 06:32 PM
our defense is worse than last year. once again our offense bails us out.

slim
09-21-2008, 06:32 PM
We have lucked out 2 weeks in a row, and didn't look great against oakland either. Something has to be done on the defense, fast. Better to do it now while there is time to do it, than wait until we lose a couple in a row and not have as much time to learn...

This defense literally made me sick today, they totaly stressed me out.

Yeah, this D may be worse than last years...is that even possible?

weazel
09-21-2008, 06:34 PM
Brees is a good QB, but 90% pass percentage???

Italianmobstr7
09-21-2008, 06:34 PM
This teams D is better against the run. Way worse against the pass. Denver really needs to do something on D though. It's ridiculous how little of a pass rush that we have. Thankfully we play the Chiefs next week, so maybe for a week they'll look like they're good.

claymore
09-21-2008, 06:35 PM
This was a stressful day. Im just glad Bush didnt return a kick. But as much as we are stressing about the D, in a weird way we won because of they're TD on the fumble recovery.

Lonestar
09-21-2008, 06:35 PM
We were lucky to win today. I will take it but the defense was pathetic

Thank you Martin Gramatica for missing the kick for us.

thanks to mar-teen and ED for us being 3-0 vs 1-2..

This team has been lucky this year.. made a few key stops but giving up a half a grand today is inexcusable..

If slowic does not turn this D around by the second week after the bye he should be fired on the spot..

He has sucked as a DC everywhere he has been.. why anyone thought he could do it here is beyond my comprehension..

claymore
09-21-2008, 06:36 PM
On a side note........ Champ is a waste of money if we cant put pressure on the QB...... Un popular belief, but, damn........ I would rather put 70 mil towards a good D lineman.... Than on a secondary guy right now......

Lonestar
09-21-2008, 06:37 PM
Brees is a good QB, but 90% pass percentage???


Denver's lack of D has made alot of QB's Superbowl MVP's as well as made alot more into all pro type players..

weazel
09-21-2008, 06:37 PM
luck or destiny? LOL

Northman
09-21-2008, 06:37 PM
We were lucky to win today. I will take it but the defense was pathetic

Thank you Martin Gramatica for missing the kick for us.

Grammatica?

That was Gazoo

http://reviews.goldenagecartoons.com/2006/flintstones6/gazoo.jpg

G_Money
09-21-2008, 06:38 PM
I'd ask if self-castration was an option, but it looks like the entire defense, coaches and players, have already tried that.

~G

jrelway
09-21-2008, 06:42 PM
again we were up big and couldnt put the other team out of their misery. no half time adjustments for slowik it seems. guess a wins a win but a frustrating win it was.

Watchthemiddle
09-21-2008, 06:44 PM
luck or destiny? LOL

Sometimes it takes a little luck to be successful. Luck and injuries play huge into this game. We have had a lot of luck, and very little injuries so far. I guess that is more luck.

Anyway, I would much rather win and have the defense in shambles early and give them time to iron this out as the season goes on. Boy oh boy, if we were just decent on D, we would be winning 45-17 every week.

Traveler
09-21-2008, 06:46 PM
Pathetic is all I can say. And next week is our trap game. Book it!

Retired_Member_001
09-21-2008, 06:48 PM
What needs to changed on defense? Everything. We need new players as well as a new Defensive Coordinator. Our defense is horrible and there is nothing we can do to change it. It's weird because I'm more worried of the aerial threat this year than the threat on the ground.

spikerman
09-21-2008, 06:49 PM
What irritates me is that these are the same problems the Broncos have had for years, but nobody in the organization seems to recognize them. Last year, their attempt to improve the d-line consisted of grabbing a talented, but injured vet from the jets and drafting a player in the 5th round. That is NO WAY to improve the most glaring weakness on the defense.

Now we can listen to the players and coaches talk about how they just have to "tighten up the little things" all week. Fellas, take a look at the stats, this team is way past minor adjustments.

Skinny
09-21-2008, 06:49 PM
Shuffle up the defensive coaching staff. WTH, can't make it any worse.

Besides, nobody from outside the loop (mikey's ingrown family) is going to want this gig anyways, not with a one year window hanging over their head.

broncophan
09-21-2008, 07:01 PM
Well.....a couple of years ago we benched our on the field offensive leader, starting qb Jake Plummer, when the team was 7-4....and our offense was sputtering......and we all know what happened the rest of that season.

So....I think since our defense is sputtering.....maybe we should bench our on the field defensive leader....whoever that is.....Champ maybe...

The good news is we are 3-0.....and have some time to fix our defense....I hope.

claymore
09-21-2008, 07:07 PM
Sometimes it takes a little luck to be successful. Luck and injuries play huge into this game. We have had a lot of luck, and very little injuries so far. I guess that is more luck.

Anyway, I would much rather win and have the defense in shambles early and give them time to iron this out as the season goes on. Boy oh boy, if we were just decent on D, we would be winning 45-17 every week.

Ive noticed the luck as well. We have been seriously lacking in that department for awhile........ Hopefully we have enough to last the entire season, cause this Defense sucks. Its atrocious. Thank God our O can keep up, or else it would be a long, long, long season.

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 07:07 PM
eventually this weak D will start losing us games....

It definately wont make it thru the playoffs.... Theres no pass rush, theres no RUSH PERIOD....

The secondary is weak... Look at our teams and watch defenses like PHILLY, DALLAS, TAMPA, CHICAGO..... even The Raiders.... These teams are aggressive and fast...

DJ Williams is our best player.... These safeties are weak...

Getting rid of Abdullah was a mistake...

LOsing Lynch has hurt....

Theres no bruiser out there that straight hits people and makes it hurt....

gross.... gross defense

jrelway
09-21-2008, 07:09 PM
On a side note........ Champ is a waste of money if we cant put pressure on the QB...... Un popular belief, but, damn........ I would rather put 70 mil towards a good D lineman.... Than on a secondary guy right now......

look at courland finnegan for the titans..having a field day with INT's this season cause why? that nasty ass D line the titans have. when are we gonna get our own haynesworths and vandenbosches.

Lonestar
09-21-2008, 07:15 PM
look at courland finnegan for the titans..having a field day with INT's this season cause why? that nasty ass D line the titans have. when are we gonna get our own haynesworths and vandenbosches.

hopefully Thomas steps up this year and perhaps Powell next year to stop the RUN and collapse the pocket.. Powell lead the nation in negative yardage plays last year.. Yes I know it was college but at least he has done it..


BUT IMHO we need to spend day one picks on DT/DE and safety ONLY and probably the rest of the draft on defense ONLY..

Unless something really bad goes south the O should be pretty well stocked for the next 8-10 years..

jrelway
09-21-2008, 07:16 PM
hopefully Thomas steps up this year and perhaps Powell next year to stop the RUN and collapse the pocket.. Powell lead the nation in negative yardage plays last year.. Yes I know it was college but at least he has done it..


BUT IMHO we need to spend day one picks on DT/DE and safety ONLY and probably the rest of the draft on defense ONLY..

Unless something really bad goes south the O should be pretty well stocked for the next 8-10 years..

shoot, we need to spend our top 5 picks on D.

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 07:20 PM
were not going far with THIS defense........

3-0 or not..... 1st place or not...


something must change

ChairmanBron
09-21-2008, 07:23 PM
were not going far with THIS defense........

3-0 or not..... 1st place or not...


something must change

We need to have the offense burn up the clock with a running game. Keep our defense off the field, that is what needs to change.

red98
09-21-2008, 07:32 PM
We need to have the offense burn up the clock with a running game. Keep our defense off the field, that is what needs to change.

For sure that would help. But we also need to get a pass rush on. I don't analyze everything as I watch, but I know some here do.

What is up with the 3 man line???

Doesn't look like it's helping to me.

broncophan
09-21-2008, 07:35 PM
we need to remember we are 3-0 and our offense has "bought" Shanahan some time to try to get his coaches to fix our d....

Yea...our d sucks....but I would feel alot worse if we were 1-2 or 0-3...and had all these problems on defense

Hell....we got a 2 game lead in our division after 3 games.....even as bad as our defense is

Our offense is farther along than anyone thought it would be....so hopefully it can continue to keep it going.....while our defensive problems, hopefully get fixed

A couple of years ago our defense won some games for us...when our offense was struggling......our offense has won the last 2 games for us while our defense is struggling.....with KC next on the schedule......I can live with 4-0....and hope the defense shows signs of improvement next week!!!

weazel
09-21-2008, 07:38 PM
if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle, but...

Watchthemiddle
09-21-2008, 07:41 PM
A win is a win is a win is a win.

3-0 is 3-0 is 3-0 is 3-0.

G_Money
09-21-2008, 07:43 PM
If our defense ISN'T better against one of the worst offensive teams in the league then I want to see Slowik commit seppuku right on the 50 yard line before the coin toss at our next home game.

But I agree, the O is buying us time to fix the D. Wins are wins. But improvement needs to happen.

At least the games are thrilling this year - on offense I'm jazzed to see what we'll do and on defense I'm similarly terrified by how bad we can be.

It's certainly bracing - and far better than some of the lackluster play on BOTH sides that we talked about last year.

But last year we talked about how the offense had some time to get it together because the D was buying them time in the first couple games. That didn't turn out for us so well.

So I'm just enjoying the offense and trying to figure out if we have any talent on D at all, and to what extent our kindergarten-level scheme is camoflauging it. I'd hate to draft DEs high only to find out Moss is terrific under our next coordinator.

Go with LB and S with our first two picks still, please. We know those are needs no matter what scheme we're running.

~G

honz
09-21-2008, 07:44 PM
We have a decent secondary, with very good corners, and our Run D has been pretty solid...we just need to find a way to get pressure on QBs. It's time to start blitzing like crazy IMO and let Champ and Bly earn their money.

ikillz0mbies
09-21-2008, 07:45 PM
eventually this weak D will start losing us games....

It definately wont make it thru the playoffs.... Theres no pass rush, theres no RUSH PERIOD....

The secondary is weak... Look at our teams and watch defenses like PHILLY, DALLAS, TAMPA, CHICAGO..... even The Raiders.... These teams are aggressive and fast...

DJ Williams is our best player.... These safeties are weak...

Getting rid of Abdullah was a mistake...

LOsing Lynch has hurt....

Theres no bruiser out there that straight hits people and makes it hurt....

gross.... gross defense

Actually, the Broncos never got rid of Abdullah, he just got benched cause of Manuel. Manuel flat out sucks, he can't defend in coverage or man-to-man. I still think McCree is a decent safety, at least he can make a stop. But Manuel......please cut him and bring up Josh Barrett from the practice squad or have Abdullah start. They briefly showed John Lynch up in the Fox announcers booth, and I really would like to have him back instead of a poor excuse of a safety named Marquand Manuel. At least Lynch was great at run defense and can make a tackle.

Watchthemiddle
09-21-2008, 07:47 PM
We have a decent secondary, with very good corners, and our Run D has been pretty solid...we just need to find a way to get pressure on QBs. It's time to start blitzing like crazy IMO and let Champ and Bly earn their money.

Yes.

The stat that blew me away that they showed in the 4th quarter was.....46 drop backs by Brees....1 sack....6 knock downs...:tsk:

Thats unacceptable.

Mike
09-21-2008, 07:48 PM
We have a decent secondary, with very good corners, and our Run D has been pretty solid...we just need to find a way to get pressure on QBs. It's time to start blitzing like crazy IMO and let Champ and Bly earn their money.

It won't be Bly and Bailey. It will be our LBs. And they have shown they cannot cover the RB or TE.

They tried blitzing a few times today. Either the scheme of the blitz sucked or the players didn't execute it at all. Either way, Brees read the blitz and hit a RB or Shockey quick. Blitzing won't fix it...not blitzing won't fix it.

The team is just in for a long year on defense. Learn it...live it...love...eh.

broncophan
09-21-2008, 07:50 PM
[QUOTE=G_Money;388042]If our defense ISN'T better against one of the worst offensive teams in the league then I want to see Slowik commit seppuku right on the 50 yard line before the coin toss at our next home game.

But I agree, the O is buying us time to fix the D. Wins are wins. But improvement needs to happen.

At least the games are thrilling this year - on offense I'm jazzed to see what we'll do and on defense I'm similarly terrified by how bad we can be.

It's certainly bracing - and far better than some of the lackluster play on BOTH sides that we talked about last year.

But last year we talked about how the offense had some time to get it together because the D was buying them time in the first couple games. That didn't turn out for us so well.

So I'm just enjoying the offense and trying to figure out if we have any talent on D at all, and to what extent our kindergarten-level scheme is camoflauging it. I'd hate to draft DEs high only to find out Moss is terrific under our next coordinator.

Go with LB and S with our first two picks still, please. We know those are needs no matter what scheme we're running.






Yea.....I hate to look ahead......but we have Tampa in 2 weeks....and Griese of all people....threw for over 400 yards against the Bears defense...our d better get ready quick...

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 07:52 PM
watch dallas and green bay play D tonight.......

it aint hard to see how bad we really are on defense...


The question is........ What can we do?

This proves that AL WILSON was ALOT more than just a MLB.. undersized too....

Its good to be happy for a 3-0 record.... The loses are coming.... We may score enough points per week to earn an 11-5 10-6 record.... we may even win the division... But shitty d will not get us to the bowl....

Anyone remember Roethliberger? Guy was making sandwiches and eating them before he threw the ball.... THIS D is worse.... Worse rush, worse secondary..


Best O, Worst D.............

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 07:54 PM
BUT what?

ur happy losing in the playoffs to a high powered offense team with mediocre defense?

But..... were losers in this case.....

But nothing..... We should be killing these teams with this offense...


if ur happy, ur blue balling urself....

But were losers in january.......

honz
09-21-2008, 07:55 PM
It won't be Bly and Bailey. It will be our LBs. And they have shown they cannot cover the RB or TE.

They tried blitzing a few times today. Either the scheme of the blitz sucked or the players didn't execute it at all. Either way, Brees read the blitz and hit a RB or Shockey quick. Blitzing won't fix it...not blitzing won't fix it.

The team is just in for a long year on defense. Learn it...live it...love...eh.
I mean let Champ and Dre earn there money by manning up against WRs 1 on 1.

Moss and Doom put some pressure on Brees today and I would like to see more of that DE combo in upcoming weeks. Mix in a few blitzes and keep the OLine guessing on who's coming and we may be able to get QBs out of their rhythm a bit. What we are doing now is just NOT working at all.

Broncolingus
09-21-2008, 07:56 PM
The LBs and DBs are fine...or at least off the hook until the down-four of Denver can show something.

LBs and DBs cannot cover for eternity just because the DL can't generate a pass-rush or plug running lanes.

If Denver puts together a DL that can function like one should in the NFL, and the LBs and DBs are still making bad plays, then I'll be the first to call for their heads...

...but until then, the DL has the ENTIRE blame.

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 07:57 PM
Talent on defense........

DJ Williams
Elvis Dumervil....
Barely Champ Bailey

everyone else is par at best

And if u wanna rip Elvis go ahead, but the man get held all the time... He need more upper strength to run thru those holds and make the sack

elsid13
09-21-2008, 07:59 PM
That was bad game plan by the DC. Lack of pressure should have meet more blitz not just some hybrid 3 down linemen and 3 LB set.

Dean
09-21-2008, 08:02 PM
It looks like we are running on luck right now and luck is fickle.

It is too late in the year for personnel changes. Either we find a scheme (probably blitzing) that will give the Broncos some help in pressuring the QB or Jay is going to have to be flawless every game.

Broncolingus
09-21-2008, 08:02 PM
BUT what?

ur happy losing in the playoffs to a high powered offense team with mediocre defense?

But..... were losers in this case.....

But nothing..... We should be killing these teams with this offense...


if ur happy, ur blue balling urself....

But were losers in january.......

I agree...

If Denver was a 4-12 team last year and we had this going, I'd be optomistic and happier...

...BUT that is not the case. This is now a BIG TIME trend with this team for several years now.

The defense (and esp. the defensive line) has been suspect for years now and - outside of Plummbor - has been the exploited liability against good teams for years now.

Like Indy...

Like Pittsburg...

The offensive is putting points on the board and there was NO reason for the defense to 'let' the Aint's back into the game before halftime today...

...and how did they do that?

With no pressure on Brees, him standing there all day, simply picking the defense apart.

"Save the Cheerleader - Save the World?"

- then -

"Save the Defensive Line - Save the Season"

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:02 PM
The LBs and DBs are fine...or at least off the hook until the down-four of Denver can show something.

LBs and DBs cannot cover for eternity just because the DL can't generate a pass-rush or plug running lanes.

If Denver puts together a DL that can function like one should in the NFL, and the LBs and DBs are still making bad plays, then I'll be the first to call for their heads...

...but until then, the DL has the ENTIRE blame.


your nuts.... weak run D creates opportunity for offenses against us... Shanny knows our Run D blows... Run defense STARTS WITH LBers... Nate Webster and Bailey are not good.....

Blaming the line is lame... Guys we let go who werent good enough are playing somewhere else, and they are better...

The defense schemes blow, We dont move around enough...

DJ making all these tackles tells u something...... Hes a monster and he has no help

red98
09-21-2008, 08:05 PM
your nuts.... weak run D creates opportunity for offenses against us... Shanny knows our Run D blows... Run defense STARTS WITH LBers... Nate Webster and Bailey are not good.....

Blaming the line is lame... Guys we let go who werent good enough are playing somewhere else, and they are better...

The defense schemes blow, We dont move around enough...

DJ making all these tackles tells u something...... Hes a monster and he has no help

DJ was a monster today!!!

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:06 PM
I agree...

If Denver was a 4-12 team last year and we had this going, I'd be optomistic and happier...

...BUT that is not the case. This is now a BIG TIME trend with this team for several years now.

The defense (and esp. the defensive line) has been suspect for years now and - outside of Plummbor - has been the exploited liability against good teams for years now.

Like Indy...

Like Pittsburg...

The offensive is putting points on the board and there was NO reason for the defense to 'let' the Aint's back into the game before halftime today...

...and how did they do that?

With no pressure on Brees, him standing there all day, simply picking the defense apart.

"Save the Cheerleader - Save the World?"

- then -

"Save the Defensive Line - Save the Season"


Picking apart a D is easy and can be done by 28 starting QBs in this league IF U GIVE THEM TIME... WRs can get open and make moves if they have 10-12 seconds to get downfield....

U just cant cover Wrs in this league for very long.... If they have time, they will get open. Even with a Champ Bailey... A mediocre QB will look great... It starts with pressure... it starts with the rush....

u rush 4 man all day... ur giving the WRs plenty of time to get open and Drew Brees plenty of time to take a leak before he throws the ball


Gross..... i cant think of a better word than just GROSS

Broncolingus
09-21-2008, 08:07 PM
Picking apart a D is easy and can be done by 28 starting QBs in this league IF U GIVE THEM TIME... WRs can get open and make moves if they have 10-12 seconds to get downfield....

U just cant cover Wrs in this league for very long.... If they have time, they will get open. Even with a Champ Bailey... A mediocre QB will look great... It starts with pressure... it starts with the rush....

u rush 4 man all day... ur giving the WRs plenty of time to get open and Drew Brees plenty of time to take a leak before he throws the ball


Gross..... i cant think of a better word than just GROSS


I, for what it's worth, think you are exactly right...

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:07 PM
i will bash the defense til we win a game 45-10 like we should have now for 3 weeks

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:08 PM
But nothing......


But we get to host a playoff game and lose...... cuz we cant stop anybody...


But nothing.... were losers at that point

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:11 PM
DJ was a monster today!!!

cuz hes our best and pretty much only good player....

He plays his position well..... Hes very under-rated at weakside....

Theres a chance were are 1-2 and without a DJ Williams....

YES..... 1 player can make that big a difference.... on this disgusting defense.... o YEA!!

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:15 PM
we need to remember we are 3-0 and our offense has "bought" Shanahan some time to try to get his coaches to fix our d....

Yea...our d sucks....but I would feel alot worse if we were 1-2 or 0-3...and had all these problems on defense

Hell....we got a 2 game lead in our division after 3 games.....even as bad as our defense is

Our offense is farther along than anyone thought it would be....so hopefully it can continue to keep it going.....while our defensive problems, hopefully get fixed

A couple of years ago our defense won some games for us...when our offense was struggling......our offense has won the last 2 games for us while our defense is struggling.....with KC next on the schedule......I can live with 4-0....and hope the defense shows signs of improvement next week!!!

U dont just fix defense problems during a season.... These coaches dont know what the hell to do right now...

In my defense.... and anyone who knows football..... I knew our O was going to be sick... Step back and look at our team man... Cutler is a top QB 2 seasons ago... He has weapons... We have the best young WR in the game in Brandon Marshall.... And Eddie Royal is a GEM......

I for one knew we would be powerful on O.... What i didnt expect was such a terrible defense....

Simple Jaded
09-21-2008, 08:16 PM
The fact that they'd rush three DLman so much tells me all I need to know, the coaches know they're not going to get there with just four and they probably won't get there with the smoke-and-mirrors either.

As much as I don't like Slowik, and I really really don't like him, there is one person on this planet to blame for the defensive issues......and his name is not Bob Slowik/Jim Bates/Larry Coyer/Ray Rhodes/Greg Robinson.

If Shanahan keeps scapegoating DC's he is bound to find The Next Bill Belichick sooner or later, just out of dumb luck and effort......either that or DC's are going to realize what a shit job it is and refuse to even interview.

Ya know what really needs to be done, they need to find players who can rush the gott damn passer and stop throwing DC's against the wall to see which one sticks.

And what fans need to do is stop overreacting to the Broncos Top30 defense giving up 35+ points to a Top5 offense.

When it comes to the Denver Broncos defense Denny Green says it best: They are who we thought they were......

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:18 PM
The fact that they'd rush three DLman so much tells me all I need to know, the coaches know they're not going to get there with just four and they probably won't get there with the smoke-and-mirrors either.

As much as I don't like Slowik, and I really really don't like him, there is one person on this planet to blame for the defensive issues......and his name is not Bob Slowik/Jim Bates/Larry Coyer/Ray Rhodes/Greg Robinson.

If Shanahan keeps scapegoating DC's he's going to find The Next Bill Belichick sooner or later......either that or DC's are going to realize what a shit job it is and refuse to even interview.

Ya know what really needs to be done, they need to find players who can rush the gott damn passer and stop throwing DC's against the wall to see which one sticks.

And what fans need to do is stop overreacting to the Broncos Top30 defense giving up 35+ points to a Top5 offense.

When it comes to the Denver Broncos defense Denny Green says it best: They are who we thought they were......

:rockon::rockon:

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:20 PM
The fact that they'd rush three DLman so much tells me all I need to know, the coaches know they're not going to get there with just four and they probably won't get there with the smoke-and-mirrors either.

As much as I don't like Slowik, and I really really don't like him, there is one person on this planet to blame for the defensive issues......and his name is not Bob Slowik/Jim Bates/Larry Coyer/Ray Rhodes/Greg Robinson.

If Shanahan keeps scapegoating DC's he's going to find The Next Bill Belichick sooner or later, just out of dumb luck and effort......either that or DC's are going to realize what a shit job it is and refuse to even interview.

Ya know what really needs to be done, they need to find players who can rush the gott damn passer and stop throwing DC's against the wall to see which one sticks.

And what fans need to do is stop overreacting to the Broncos Top30 defense giving up 35+ points to a Top5 offense.

When it comes to the Denver Broncos defense Denny Green says it best: They are who we thought they were......


i think alot of the fans here dont watch other teams play..... I for one do... And all i can say is we just dont have guys out there who are animals....

Bring back Mobley and Atwater!!!!!

broncosfanscott
09-21-2008, 08:20 PM
I am excited we won the game and are 3-0, however we really need to start playing better on defense. I mean this is the second straight game where we led 21-3 only to see the opponent climb back into the game. Our offense is superb and isn't going to be scoring @ 40pts. a game (I would love it though), so we need to start milking the clock late in the game.

Red Zone turnovers really need to stop. That is three in the past two games. We are scoring more TDs than FGs which we need to improve on from last year, however we just CAN'T turn the ball over inside the 20.

All in all I am excited to see the offense finally playing the way we have all waited for it to do. 3-0 is 3-0 and we need to keep rolling by getting another divisional win at Arrowhead next week.

red98
09-21-2008, 08:22 PM
cuz hes our best and pretty much only good player....

He plays his position well..... Hes very under-rated at weakside....

Theres a chance were are 1-2 and without a DJ Williams....

YES..... 1 player can make that big a difference.... on this disgusting defense.... o YEA!!
Yeah, but Champ is pretty good too, and his brother made some key plays today:D

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:29 PM
Yeah, but Champ is pretty good too, and his brother made some key plays today:D

champ as a player is great.... Champ as a top CB in this league? Noway


Dont get me started on Boss Bailey... Guy would be on this team if it wasnt for Champ... He made a couple plays today... But he was atrocious last week and the week before....

Ur basically saying its ok to suck it up and long as u make a play every now and then?

Noway....


Again..... i say watch OTHER defnses in this league.... If u have the resources.... Compare and contrast what u are watching.... Watch Green Bay and Dallas tonight....

People...... are defense is just not aggressive or talented enough

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:30 PM
Yeah, but Champ is pretty good too, and his brother made some key plays today:D

change his name to Dick Pole, and hes just another CB in this league

Simple Jaded
09-21-2008, 08:31 PM
i think alot of the fans here dont watch other teams play..... I for one do... And all i can say is we just dont have guys out there who are animals....

Bring back Mobley and Atwater!!!!!

That too! DJ and Champ, Denver's best players are not exactly the spitting nails type.

That's why I laugh when people say that Rey Maualuga doesn't fit Denver's system and LB profile. What better reason is there to draft the guy?

Denver's defense has a few pieces, very few pieces, but attitude is a huge need, their "swagger" is ostentatious and phony, imo......

broncophan
09-21-2008, 08:31 PM
U dont just fix defense problems during a season.... These coaches dont know what the hell to do right now...

In my defense.... and anyone who knows football..... I knew our O was going to be sick... Step back and look at our team man... Cutler is a top QB 2 seasons ago... He has weapons... We have the best young WR in the game in Brandon Marshall.... And Eddie Royal is a GEM......

I for one knew we would be powerful on O.... What i didnt expect was such a terrible defense....

:listen: No body thought our offense would be scoring close to 40 points a game.....not even you...

red98
09-21-2008, 08:36 PM
champ as a player is great.... Champ as a top CB in this league? Noway


Dont get me started on Boss Bailey... Guy would be on this team if it wasnt for Champ... He made a couple plays today... But he was atrocious last week and the week before....

Ur basically saying its ok to suck it up and long as u make a play every now and then?

Noway....


Again..... i say watch OTHER defnses in this league.... If u have the resources.... Compare and contrast what u are watching.... Watch Green Bay and Dallas tonight....

People...... are defense is just not aggressive or talented enough

Boss played while recovering from a high ankle sprain and did well today.

Champ is, bar none , the smartest, best tackling, best covering CB in the NFL.


Still, all I said was that DJ is not our only good player on defense. I'm sure everyone on this board will agree with me. (except you?:eek:)

That said, our D is sucking it right now, no doubt.

red98
09-21-2008, 08:40 PM
change his name to Dick Pole, and hes just another CB in this league

You just lost all credibility when it comes to football.

:tsk:

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:43 PM
:listen: No body thought our offense would be scoring close to 40 points a game.....not even you...

check my posts buddy......

my predictions have had Denver all over 40 points.....

Who are you again?

Italianmobstr7
09-21-2008, 08:45 PM
champ as a player is great.... Champ as a top CB in this league? Noway


Dont get me started on Boss Bailey... Guy would be on this team if it wasnt for Champ... He made a couple plays today... But he was atrocious last week and the week before....



If you honestly think that Champ sucks at CB, then you are crazy. He gave up a TD last week, big deal. Today he allowed zero catches and shut down whoever he was on. Not one pass completed on him today. I watch other games too, and I'll agree with you that our D needs some help, but Champ is still bar none the best CB in the game today.

Boss played good today too. He played decent last week, but he was coming back from a high ankle sprain and hadn't played since Week 1 of the pre-season. As for him being atrocious the week before...he didn't play against the Raiders. Jamie Winborn was in his spot. Boss played good today, as did DJ. Our problem is our CB's after Champ and Dre, our Safeties, and our D-line. They're hardly getting ANY pressure. No team will stop the pass if they have no pass rush.

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:48 PM
You just lost all credibility when it comes to football.

:tsk:

ok buddy......

sorry... but champ has not been in his best form for the past 2 years....


hes a great tackler and a smart player.... But HIS secondary is giving up too many yards....

Hes more of a name now.... credit that to somebody who cares....

Again.... watch other teams play


Al Harris has played better than Champ has in 2 years...

Im not going to ride the guy's nutts cuz hes one of the best.....

He looked terrible last weak....

My credibility with football? Why do u have some kind of plaque on your wall from FOOTBALL UNIVERSITY?

heres my credibility, our D blows.... Were not going deep into January with this D....

I didnt even get my plaque and i know that

Keep Riding ur big names.....

elsid13
09-21-2008, 08:50 PM
Most of the passing yards came in the middle of the field. That means the Saints were looking attack the MLB and the safeties.

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:50 PM
If you honestly think that Champ sucks at CB, then you are crazy. He gave up a TD last week, big deal. Today he allowed zero catches and shut down whoever he was on. Not one pass completed on him today. I watch other games too, and I'll agree with you that our D needs some help, but Champ is still bar none the best CB in the game today.

Boss played good today too. He played decent last week, but he was coming back from a high ankle sprain and hadn't played since Week 1 of the pre-season. As for him being atrocious the week before...he didn't play against the Raiders. Jamie Winborn was in his spot. Boss played good today, as did DJ. Our problem is our CB's after Champ and Dre, our Safeties, and our D-line. They're hardly getting ANY pressure. No team will stop the pass if they have no pass rush.

watch other teams...... Stop your Denver bias....

I agree its not all his fault cuz of our crap pass rush..... But he certainly is not playing ANYWHERE he did when we went to the playoffs and beat the PATS....

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:52 PM
hey i got an Idea.......

LETS GIVE CHAMP MORE MONEY!!!

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 08:53 PM
Most of the passing yards came in the middle of the field. That means the Saints were looking attack the MLB and the safeties.

whoever was open really.... when u have that kind of time u can do alot, all over the field

Simple Jaded
09-21-2008, 08:55 PM
I think Champ Bailey misses Bob Slowik as his position coach, the last season Slowik was his position coach, Bailey should have won the defensive MVP of the league, since then he's just been merely a ProBowler......

red98
09-21-2008, 08:56 PM
ok buddy......

sorry... but champ has not been in his best form for the past 2 years....


hes a great tackler and a smart player.... But HIS secondary is giving up too many yards....

Hes more of a name now.... credit that to somebody who cares....

Again.... watch other teams play


Al Harris has played better than Champ has in 2 years...

Im not going to ride the guy's nutts cuz hes one of the best.....

He looked terrible last weak....

My credibility with football? Why do u have some kind of plaque on your wall from FOOTBALL UNIVERSITY?

heres my credibility, our D blows.... Were not going deep into January with this D....

I didnt even get my plaque and i know that

Keep Riding ur big names.....

I stopped reading this post when you said Al harris has played better. Al harris's other name last year was Plaxico Burress's bitch.


Seriously dude, I watched Carson Palmer carve up the Giants today. The Giants have DLs falling out of their GM's ass.

Who do think is better than Champ?

Anyway Hoes, I know you know the game, I just think you are hyperventalating when it comes to Champ.


To be clear though, and so everyone understands, the Broncos D is the suck right now, and that's a fact.

red98
09-21-2008, 08:59 PM
hey i got an Idea.......

LETS GIVE CHAMP MORE MONEY!!!

Champ is not even close to being the highest paid CB in the NFL.

We'll see what he gets paid next year.

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 09:00 PM
I stopped reading this post when you said Al harris has played better. Al harris's other name last year was Plaxico Burress's bitch.


Seriously dude, I watched Carson Palmer carve up the Giants today. The Giants have DLs falling out of their GM's ass.

Who do think is better than Champ?

Anyway Hoes, I know you know the game, I just think you are hyperventalating when it comes to Champ.


To be clear though, and so everyone understands, the Broncos D is the suck right now, and that's a fact.

Every year the NAME champ bailey, loses its value over the PLAYER champ bailey....

jlarsiii
09-21-2008, 09:05 PM
It is pretty easy to see that our D generally isn't getting it done. How many times did they have the saints in 3rd and long distance? How many times did the saints convert those into first downs? You know your D is sucking it up when they can't even get off the field on 3rd and long. . . .

That being said it is hard to pinpoint one area that isn't getting it done. Sometimes it is the scheme (who in their right mind goes into a prevent defense in the 2nd QUARTER!!). Sometimes it is the lack of pressure. Sometimes it is piss poor tackling. Often it is our LBs or safeties getting exploited in the middle of the field. We need work in multiple areas to improve, and some of it isn't going to happen this season because we do need some better talent in certain areas.

On the bright side our D really can't statistically be much worse. We are living on the razor's edge right now. The last two weeks have shown that very little is seperating wins from losses for this team. Eventually we will end up on the losing side at some point in time during this season.

I know it is really, really premature to say this but if we do make it into the playoffs I hope that something can be done with this D by then. Otherwise we are going to be just like the Chiefs and the early version of the Colts (all offense and no defense). Neither of those teams could even manage a postseason win with those prolific offenses. We may be destined to be the next franchise to have that happen. Could you just imagine what a healthy Colts offense would do to this D in the playoffs again? I shudder at the thought of that disaster.:tsk:

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 09:07 PM
It is pretty easy to see that our D generally isn't getting it done. How many times did they have the saints in 3rd and long distance? How many times did the saints convert those into first downs? You know your D is sucking it up when they can't even get off the field on 3rd and long. . . .

That being said it is hard to pinpoint one area that isn't getting it done. Sometimes it is the scheme (who in their right mind goes into a prevent defense in the 2nd QUARTER!!). Sometimes it is the lack of pressure. Sometimes it is piss poor tackling. Often it is our LBs or safeties getting exploited in the middle of the field. We need work in multiple areas to improve, and some of it isn't going to happen this season because we do need some better talent in certain areas.

On the bright side our D really can't statistically be much worse. We are living on the razor's edge right now. The last two weeks have shown that very little is seperating wins from losses for this team. Eventually we will end up on the losing side at some point in time during this season.

I know it is really, really premature to say this but if we do make it into the playoffs I hope that something can be done with this D by then. Otherwise we are going to be just like the Chiefs and the early version of the Colts (all offense and no defense). Neither of those teams could even manage a postseason win with those prolific offenses. We may be destined to be the next franchise to have that happen. Could you just imagine what a healthy Colts offense would do to this D in the playoffs again? I shudder at the thought of that disaster.:tsk:

:elefant::beer::cheer2::first:

well stated.... well explained.....

its obvious u spend more time actually watching football and less time posting....

good for you

Rusty Shackleford
09-21-2008, 09:08 PM
Probably been posted but...

The Denver Broncos came into the game against the New Orleans Saints extremely pleased with their offense, but extremely worried about their defense.

The Denver "D" surrendered 38 points to the Chargers last week, so they had something to prove against the talented Saints attack. Even though they gave up a lot of points again, there's reason to be confident that this defense is better that it appears.

First, they made several big, momentum changing plays.

1. On the opening drive, defensive end Ebeneezer Ekuban stopped New Orleans' when he sacked Drew Brees for a 7-yard loss. That allowed the Broncos offense to get on the board first, and in a battle between two high scoring teams, getting into the end zone first is an advantage, because it forces your opponent to match you.
2. Defensive end John Engleberger caused a Reggie Bush fumble, which linebacker Nate Webster picked up and carried back for a touchdown. So the defense is helping its own cause by directly putting points on the board.
3. Just before the half, the Saints had 1st and goal from the Denver 5 and a touchdown would have allowed them to tie the game. They gained 4 yards on their initial try, but then the Broncos defense rose up and made three consecutive stops from the 1 to keep the Saints out of the end zone.
4. Late 4th Quarter, the Saints closed to within 2 points, but the defense stopped them on the 2-point conversion that would have tied it.
5. Final drive for the Saints, New Orleans took over Saints had the ball with 5:30 to go … the defense rose up to stop a critical 3rd and 1, and then the field goal to take the lead was wide right.


So there's still a lot to worry about on the Broncos defense, but they made five plays today that we haven't seen them make in the previous weeks. So that's at least some comfort.

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/saints.broncos.offense.2.822485.html

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 09:09 PM
this season will end up being one of the worst cases of blue balls some of u will ever have......

Broncos Mtnman
09-21-2008, 09:11 PM
The only thing that concerns me about the defense so far is the tendency to give up HUGE plays.

Our passing defense stats are somewhat skewed in these first three games due to the huge leads we took in the first half of each game. When a team is behind that much, they are going to have to pass alot.

I don't care so much about the yards, it's the points and big plays that concern me.

To give the D some props in this game, that goal line stance was pretty impressive, along with the 3rd down run play on the Saints last drive (if they would have made that first down, the game likely would have ended with no time on the clock and a shorter field goal attempt.

They'll get there.

:beer:

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Probably been posted but...

The Denver Broncos came into the game against the New Orleans Saints extremely pleased with their offense, but extremely worried about their defense.

The Denver "D" surrendered 38 points to the Chargers last week, so they had something to prove against the talented Saints attack. Even though they gave up a lot of points again, there's reason to be confident that this defense is better that it appears.

First, they made several big, momentum changing plays.

1. On the opening drive, defensive end Ebeneezer Ekuban stopped New Orleans' when he sacked Drew Brees for a 7-yard loss. That allowed the Broncos offense to get on the board first, and in a battle between two high scoring teams, getting into the end zone first is an advantage, because it forces your opponent to match you.
2. Defensive end John Engleberger caused a Reggie Bush fumble, which linebacker Nate Webster picked up and carried back for a touchdown. So the defense is helping its own cause by directly putting points on the board.
3. Just before the half, the Saints had 1st and goal from the Denver 5 and a touchdown would have allowed them to tie the game. They gained 4 yards on their initial try, but then the Broncos defense rose up and made three consecutive stops from the 1 to keep the Saints out of the end zone.
4. Late 4th Quarter, the Saints closed to within 2 points, but the defense stopped them on the 2-point conversion that would have tied it.
5. Final drive for the Saints, New Orleans took over Saints had the ball with 5:30 to go … the defense rose up to stop a critical 3rd and 1, and then the field goal to take the lead was wide right.


So there's still a lot to worry about on the Broncos defense, but they made five plays today that we haven't seen them make in the previous weeks. So that's at least some comfort.

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/saints.broncos.offense.2.822485.html

and ed hoculese would have made ur list a pile of doo doo had he gotten that call right


We havent been able to put teams away for a long time..... This is in part due to Shanny with the conservative play calling with big leads.... He plays to not lose instead of to WIN... That sucks

A crappy Defense will always keep the opposing offense in games.... winning by outscoring will not last long

Simple Jaded
09-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Every year the NAME champ bailey, loses its value over the PLAYER champ bailey....

When you're a 29 year old CB that's a Top5/Top10 player in the entire league, I guess it's possible that there is nowhere to go but down, but what you're saying (Which, btw, I think you've got it backwards if you think he's a declining player with a better reputation) is relative considering he was MVP material a little more than a year and a half ago......

Italianmobstr7
09-21-2008, 09:12 PM
It's hard for Champ to make plays out their HOES when they DON'T THROW AT HIM. How can you say that he's been bad, or isn't the best when the only person with any balls to throw at him is Phillip Rivers? He given up like 2 catches all year (granted 1 was a TD) and he didn't give up a single catch today. So give me Champ over every other CB in the league right now. There's no other CB's that no one will throw at. People don't throw at Champ because they know better. He's always in position to make a play, and when we give him more money, it will be because he's the best, and he deserves it. You say I have some kind of Denver bias, but I watch all of the games too. I have Sunday Ticket, and DVR and HD and all that sh*t and I see the games too. Champ is the best CB in the league, bar none. Just because our D sucks, doesn't mean that Champ does.

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 09:14 PM
It's hard for Champ to make plays out their HOES when they DON'T THROW AT HIM. How can you say that he's been bad, or isn't the best when the only person with any balls to throw at him is Phillip Rivers? He given up like 2 catches all year (granted 1 was a TD) and he didn't give up a single catch today. So give me Champ over every other CB in the league right now. There's no other CB's that no one will throw at. People don't throw at Champ because they know better. He's always in position to make a play, and when we give him more money, it will be because he's the best, and he deserves it. You say I have some kind of Denver bias, but I watch all of the games too. I have Sunday Ticket, and DVR and HD and all that sh*t and I see the games too. Champ is the best CB in the league, bar none. Just because our D sucks, doesn't mean that Champ does.

i will not retire my orange crush champ jersey yet.... but it goes to the back of the line for sure with the likes of portis, mobley, pryce, and plummer

DenverBronkHoes
09-21-2008, 09:16 PM
It's hard for Champ to make plays out their HOES when they DON'T THROW AT HIM. How can you say that he's been bad, or isn't the best when the only person with any balls to throw at him is Phillip Rivers? He given up like 2 catches all year (granted 1 was a TD) and he didn't give up a single catch today. So give me Champ over every other CB in the league right now. There's no other CB's that no one will throw at. People don't throw at Champ because they know better. He's always in position to make a play, and when we give him more money, it will be because he's the best, and he deserves it. You say I have some kind of Denver bias, but I watch all of the games too. I have Sunday Ticket, and DVR and HD and all that sh*t and I see the games too. Champ is the best CB in the league, bar none. Just because our D sucks, doesn't mean that Champ does.

fine....

but what good is it too have the "best" CB in the league when u have no rush and no supporting cast??

Again.... the name in flashing lights is all u see.... Anyone seen Boogie Nights???

instead of dirk diggler its CHAMP BAILEY......

jlarsiii
09-21-2008, 09:20 PM
The only thing that concerns me about the defense so far is the tendency to give up HUGE plays.

Our passing defense stats are somewhat skewed in these first three games due to the huge leads we took in the first half of each game. When a team is behind that much, they are going to have to pass alot.

I don't care so much about the yards, it's the points and big plays that concern me.

To give the D some props in this game, that goal line stance was pretty impressive, along with the 3rd down run play on the Saints last drive (if they would have made that first down, the game likely would have ended with no time on the clock and a shorter field goal attempt.

They'll get there.

:beer:

Here is one of the things that concerns me though. If we get a lead to the point where the opposing offense is forced to pass to catch up, then we know that they are going to have to do so. Most teams work really hard to make the opposing teams one dimensional so that they can T-off on them. How come we had the Saints (and the Sparklers last week) in that position and instead of pinning our ears back and attacking we go prevent and allow them all day to wait for someone to come open downfield? Good defensive teams take advantage of this situation not the other way around.

The D did make a nice stand at the end of the half. They also made a nice play on the two point attempt. BUT that does not excuse them from all of the plays they failed to make throughout the game.

I am really enjoying the fact that we are 3-0. However, I need to see something out of this D before I will consider us a contender even if we go 14-2. Sooner or later our inability to keep opposing teams from going up and down the field at will against us will come back to bite us. . .

topscribe
09-21-2008, 09:25 PM
This teams D is better against the run. Way worse against the pass. Denver really needs to do something on D though. It's ridiculous how little of a pass rush that we have. Thankfully we play the Chiefs next week, so maybe for a week they'll look like they're good.

Honestly, I'm worried about next week.

-----

BeefStew25
09-21-2008, 09:27 PM
Honestly, I'm worried about next week.

-----

Oh, I am not even going to watch. I can't handle this crap.

red98
09-21-2008, 09:44 PM
Oh, I am not even going to watch. I can't handle this crap.

T. Thigpen 14/36 128 1 3

I am shaking like a school girl.

I am afraid we will make Thigpen look good...

hamrob
09-21-2008, 09:52 PM
Here's the great news!!! Yes, Rivers and Brees killed us...they picked us apart. But aren't they pretty good? Take a look at our remaining 13 games. How many more times are we going to face a QB...that can do what Rivers and Brees can do...and we beat them! I highlighted those I think will be the toughest QB's we face. Looks pretty favorable to me.

1. Thigpen
2. Greise
3. Garrard
4. Cassell
5. Pennington
6. Anderson
7. Ryan
8. Russell
9. Favre
10. Thigpen
11. Delhome
12. Edwards
13. Rivers

lex
09-21-2008, 09:58 PM
We have lucked out 2 weeks in a row, and didn't look great against oakland either. Something has to be done on the defense, fast. Better to do it now while there is time to do it, than wait until we lose a couple in a row and not have as much time to learn...

This defense literally made me sick today, they totaly stressed me out.

I love the rushing 3 approach when we dont get that much of a pass rush with 4.

ApaOps5
09-21-2008, 10:01 PM
Honestly, I'm worried about next week.

-----

You are joking right? That team can't get out of their own way. They have probably a worse defense than Denvers and they are playing a QB who wouldn't even hack it in the Arena League.

While no week is a given after the past two opponents I feel like this week will not be as stressful and nail biting.

Meck77
09-21-2008, 10:06 PM
I ventured over to chumps planet and I couldn't find a single optimistic post. Oh and they have like 10,000 members there. I haven't posted there in a long time but considered starting a thread in their "for sale" section asking for tix to the game. Some dude actually sold his tix two for one. lol

ApaOps5
09-21-2008, 10:08 PM
I am praying this year will be the year we have the 0-16 team. KC looks like they may very well be capable of pulling off such a feat.

Bronco Yoda
09-21-2008, 10:20 PM
How does someone like Billy Miller get 10 yards open (in any direction) on us? Seriously now...

56crash
09-21-2008, 10:26 PM
I love the rushing 3 approach when we dont get that much of a pass rush with 4.


that is when NO made there comback .If I never ever see a 3 man Rush fron the broncos durring a broncos game I will be so happy ...:mad:

lex
09-21-2008, 10:30 PM
that is when NO made there comback .If I never ever see a 3 man Rush fron the broncos durring a broncos game I will be so happy ...:mad:

He should be rushing 5 and 6. Let the CBs (which is supposed to be our strength) do their thing. Not only that but we have athletic LBs.

Northman
09-21-2008, 10:34 PM
He should be rushing 5 and 6. Let the CBs (which is supposed to be our strength) do their thing. Not only that but we have athletic LBs.

Exactly. Considering we are allowing 30 points a game as it is we might as well try and blitz to at least give us a chance to create sacks and turnovers. Even though we did have some talented Dlineman in 98 we still relied heavily on blitzing to create havoc to opposing Qb's like Favre. Rushing 3 and hoping that guys like Moss can cover a player like Bush is just comical on our part.

Spider
09-21-2008, 10:42 PM
I hate commenting on a game I didnt get to see ( piece of shit truck) , but some talking hair do on the radio , said Denver D did play shitty until the team needed a play and they was there , something about D.J. Williams fubaring R. Bush on a 3 rd and 1 .......

56crash
09-21-2008, 10:42 PM
Exactly. Considering we are allowing 30 points a game as it is we might as well try and blitz to at least give us a chance to create sacks and turnovers. Even though we did have some talented Dlineman in 98 we still relied heavily on blitzing to create havoc to opposing Qb's like Favre. Rushing 3 and hoping that guys like Moss can cover a player like Bush is just comical on our part.

Here is the problem Slowik has no blitz packages .... he runs a few but you can tell he really has no Idea. he is lost we shouldjust move him back to the CB's something he is great at .

lex
09-21-2008, 10:44 PM
Exactly. Considering we are allowing 30 points a game as it is we might as well try and blitz to at least give us a chance to create sacks and turnovers. Even though we did have some talented Dlineman in 98 we still relied heavily on blitzing to create havoc to opposing Qb's like Favre. Rushing 3 and hoping that guys like Moss can cover a player like Bush is just comical on our part.


Ive seen someone suggest working a trade to get Cole from Philadelphia. Big mistake. When you are effective at blitzing, its not only LBs that are generating pressure. It also frees up DEs sometimes because the OL get their blocking assignments crossed up. Jimmy Johnson is one of the best DCs at putting together blitz packages. I think its safe to say our DC is one of the worst and as a result, we are solely reliant on a front 4 that hasnt demonstrated an ability to get consistent pressure. So our clown of a DC puts them on even more of an island.

Oh, and then you gotta love the 8 yard cushions when we do blitz. We're making it way to easy for opposing QBs to make easy reads because we're calling plays in such away that we're afraid to give up a big play....So what???!!! Our offense is averaging almost 40 points a game. Giving up three big plays isnt going to kill us as much as not challenging them.

topscribe
09-21-2008, 10:45 PM
I was one of Coyer's biggest antagonists when he was here.

Now, I wish we had him back . . .

-----

lex
09-21-2008, 10:47 PM
Here is the problem Slowik has no blitz packages .... he runs a few but you can tell he really has no Idea. he is lost we shouldjust move him back to the CB's something he is great at .

You know what sucks? Champ was a big advocate of Slowik and his ideas on how to run a defense. We threw Bates under the bus and he didnt have the benefit of an offense that was averaging 40 points a game. Coyer was more creative with blitzing than this...and I never thought Id say that.

ApaOps5
09-21-2008, 10:49 PM
The worry about Bates before the season was his exotic Blitzes and how they might bite the D in the ass. But through 3 games his blitzing has been pathetic.

Northman
09-21-2008, 10:51 PM
Oh, and then you gotta love the 8 yard cushions when we do blitz. We're making it way to easy for opposing QBs to make easy reads because we're calling plays in such away that we're afraid to give up a big play....So what???!!! Our offense is averaging almost 40 points a game. Giving up three big plays isnt going to kill us as much as not challenging them.


:lol::lol:

Bingo. Good grief, i cant believe we are agreeing this much lately. haha

Thats one thing that has driven me up the wall the last couple of years, even before 05' when we do blitz or bring pressure our highly touted DB's backoff of their opponents to leave slant and quick out routes wide open. There is no bumping them at the line or anything. And we are supposed to have 2 of the best at those positions. But yea, you nailed it. Certainly blitzing isnt going to hurt us anymore than it already is. Hell, by blitzing and giving up the big play at least the defense gets off the field faster.

Northman
09-21-2008, 10:51 PM
I was one of Coyer's biggest antagonists when he was here.

Now, I wish we had him back . . .

-----


Same here, pretty sad isnt it? :shocked:

Bronco Yoda
09-21-2008, 10:53 PM
It seems we're throwing anything and everything out there on D to see what sticks.

Last week we placed 8 men in the box all day and attempted to disguise man coverage only to get severely burned when blitzing the LB'ers. Riverboy made us pay when we left the middle wide open. Go figure eh?

This week we run the vaunted 3 man rushing attack even though we have a top CB tandem who get paid for a reason.

Can't wait to see what we throw against the wall next week. Any guesses?

ApaOps5
09-21-2008, 10:53 PM
As Mediator always says it was never the coach of the scheme. its the players that were brought in. I see his point now.

topscribe
09-21-2008, 10:54 PM
It seems we're throwing anything and everything out there on D to see what sticks.

Last week we placed 8 men in the box all day and attempted to disguise man coverage only to get severely burned when blitzing the LB'ers. Riverboy made us pay when we left the middle wide open. Go figure eh?

This week we run the vaunted 3 man rushing attack even though we have a top CB tandem who get paid for a reason.

Can't wait to see what we throw against the wall next week. Any guesses?

Check with Slowick on guesses . . .

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Northman
09-21-2008, 10:55 PM
I hate commenting on a game I didnt get to see ( piece of shit truck) , but some talking hair do on the radio , said Denver D did play shitty until the team needed a play and they was there , something about D.J. Williams fubaring R. Bush on a 3 rd and 1 .......

They do get credit for the turnover and Td and even the goalline stand. But... had NO decided to pass instead of run 4 times they would of scored. We've shown we are paying more attention at stopping the run, thats evident but now we are giving up twice as much in the air. Sure, teams are fighting to get back in the game but we dont make them earn it at all. And 3rd down defense is the worse than ive ever seen it. Unless we find a way to get these little miracles every week things can go from ugly to absolutely abysmal in a hurry.

Spider
09-21-2008, 10:56 PM
Defense isnt very complex , read and react , Down and distance should dictate coverage , I mean we got one of the best as 1 corner , and a above average guy in the other ....
we need to get pressure though .......

Broncos Mtnman
09-21-2008, 10:58 PM
Check with Slowick on guesses . . .

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Next week will be Slowick's easiest game to plan.

Stack the line to stop LJ and make Thigpen try to beat you. KC has one WR (Bowe) and Gonzo. That's it.

Unfortunately, it could be a game where he might start thinking he knows what he's doing. I'll give him some time, but as was posted earlier by someone, if the Broncos had been scoring like this last year, Bates would still be the DC.

:coffee:

Northman
09-21-2008, 10:58 PM
Can't wait to see what we throw against the wall next week. Any guesses?

I think we will be fine next week. K.C is pretty bad. But, i do expect to see Thigpen look better than he has lately. This will really be the first offense that isnt giving the NFL fits. We should walk away with this one in the form of something like 42-17 or 42-21.

hamrob
09-21-2008, 11:01 PM
They do get credit for the turnover and Td and even the goalline stand. But... had NO decided to pass instead of run 4 times they would of scored. We've shown we are paying more attention at stopping the run, thats evident but now we are giving up twice as much in the air. Sure, teams are fighting to get back in the game but we dont make them earn it at all. And 3rd down defense is the worse than ive ever seen it. Unless we find a way to get these little miracles every week things can go from ugly to absolutely abysmal in a hurry.
We played Rivers and Brees. Who do we have next week? Thigpen?....how about the following week?...Greise....after that?

Yeah...our defense needs to improve. But it's going to be another 7-8 weeks before we face a QB that can pick us a part like that...and really there's only a couple left on our schedule.

Oh...and...we did beat both Rivers and Brees.

topscribe
09-21-2008, 11:01 PM
Next week will be Slowick's easiest game to plan.

Stack the line to stop LJ and make Thigpen try to beat you. KC has one WR (Bowe) and Gonzo. That's it.

Unfortunately, it could be a game where he might start thinking he knows what he's doing. I'll give him some time, but as was posted earlier by someone, if the Broncos had been scoring like this last year, Bates would still be the DC.

:coffee:

I wouldn't want Bates, even now. He failed to show even the inclination to
adapt scheme to personnel. He wanted his own, and that was it. But then,
Bates was only part of the 2007 debacle. That season was so full of
dreadful errors that if it never again crossed my mind, it would be too soon. :tsk:

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Northman
09-21-2008, 11:03 PM
We played Rivers and Brees. Who do we have next week? Thigpen?....how about the following week?...Greise....after that?

Yeah...our defense needs to improve. But it's going to be anothe 7-8 weeks before we face a QB that can pick us a part like that...and really there's only a couple left on our schedule.

Oh...and...we did beat both Rivers and Brees.

Thigpen yea, but Griese threw for a career high 407 against a pretty good defense who still intercepted him 3 times. Now obviously, Orton is no Jay Cutler but if Brian still had that much success against that defense dont you think he might be thinking about some payback? :confused:

hamrob
09-21-2008, 11:03 PM
Yeah...if Thigpen has a good game against us....wow!

56crash
09-21-2008, 11:04 PM
another think that has me pissed is our DLinmen engage blockers every time am I missing something ? I thought the Idea was to get past the oline instead of running as fast as you can into there arms if you think I am fuul of it there was a play were the D player had one guy to beat he instead ran staight for the olineman and got stood up .....this scheme is crazy or the players all of them suck ..

smith49
09-21-2008, 11:05 PM
i guess i have to chime in on this. our D looks pretty bad. however, the O did give up the ball deep in thier own territory once, so i guess i have to give them a little pass on that one. i just can't understand the way they handle third down situations. they seem to stop the oposition on first and second more often then not, but then they continually give up big play after big play on third down. i know some of the problem is the complete lack of pressure, but when i see only a three man rush i guess i cant blame the players too much. why not rush at least four? mix it up and throw in a blitz once in a while. i don't know, frutration has set in. the O looked good again asside from the fact that the run game was going ok and then completely went away, and the turn overs. the to's hurt us a lot, and i think had they not turned the ball over, obviously, the game would not have been nearly as close as it was. special teams seemed to do a bettter job today as well. at least they did not let anyone run one back on them.

hamrob
09-21-2008, 11:06 PM
Thigpen yea, but Griese threw for a career high 407 against a pretty good defense who still intercepted him 3 times. Now obviously, Orton is no Jay Cutler but if Brian still had that much success against that defense dont you think he might be thinking about some payback? :confused:Come on now? If Greise throws three picks against us...with our offense. we're looking at 50 to 3!

Comparing Greise to Rivers and Brees is a little ridiculous....IMO.

Heck...we can always get his dog to attend the game!!!:eek:

56crash
09-21-2008, 11:06 PM
Defense isnt very complex , read and react , Down and distance should dictate coverage , I mean we got one of the best as 1 corner , and a above average guy in the other ....
we need to get pressure though .......

that is the deal slowik has no clue as to how to use the DL or the blitz to get the end results I want Slowik moved back to the CB's

hamrob
09-21-2008, 11:09 PM
i guess i have to chime in on this. our D looks pretty bad. however, the O did give up the ball deep in thier own territory once, so i guess i have to give them a little pass on that one. i just can't understand the way they handle third down situations. they seem to stop the oposition on first and second more often then not, but then they continually give up big play after big play on third down. i know some of the problem is the complete lack of pressure, but when i see only a three man rush i guess i cant blame the players too much. why not rush at least four? mix it up and throw in a blitz once in a while. i don't know, frutration has set in. the O looked good again asside from the fact that the run game was going ok and then completely went away, and the turn overs. the to's hurt us a lot, and i think had they not turned the ball over, obviously, the game would not have been nearly as close as it was. special teams seemed to do a bettter job today as well. at least they did not let anyone run one back on them.I think part of the problem is the lack of atheletes on defense. I mean....by my count we have two....DJ and Champ. The rest are all average players. in order to make the blitz pay off (IMO) you have to have atheletes who can blow through the hole and make a blocker miss. Our guys...are plodders...they run right into the waiting FB and stop. If it were me...:-) I'd play JMFW, Barrett and Moss and see what happens. We're getting beat on D anyway!

lex
09-21-2008, 11:10 PM
I wouldn't want Bates, even now. He failed to show even the inclination to
adapt scheme to personnel. He wanted his own, and that was it. But then,
Bates was only part of the 2007 debacle. That season was so full of
dreadful errors that if it never again crossed my mind, it would be too soon. :tsk:

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Bates was brought in for his scheme.

lex
09-21-2008, 11:13 PM
I think part of the problem is the lack of atheletes on defense. I mean....by my count we have two....DJ and Champ. The rest are all average players. in order to make the blitz pay off (IMO) you have to have atheletes who can blow through the hole and make a blocker miss. Our guys...are plodders...they run right into the waiting FB and stop. If it were me...:-) I'd play JMFW, Barrett and Moss and see what happens. We're getting beat on D anyway!

No its more the case that you need to mix up your blitzes and confuse, overwhelm, or overload the offensive line. Athletes help but if the coach can scheme, guys should be free to break through. Another problem is the big cushions we're giving them. It makes it too easy to dump off when we do blitz.

omac
09-21-2008, 11:21 PM
our defense is worse than last year. once again our offense bails us out.

Nah, last year was still worse. The scores were lower, though, because the opponent could grind out the clock with their rushing. We were totaly helpless last season. Now we have some signs of life against the run, but our pass rush (and pass anticipation) blows.

smith49
09-21-2008, 11:23 PM
I think part of the problem is the lack of atheletes on defense. I mean....by my count we have two....DJ and Champ. The rest are all average players. in order to make the blitz pay off (IMO) you have to have atheletes who can blow through the hole and make a blocker miss. Our guys...are plodders...they run right into the waiting FB and stop. If it were me...:-) I'd play JMFW, Barrett and Moss and see what happens. We're getting beat on D anyway!

well, yah, you are probly correct on that one. i just have not even seen much of a blitz at all. maybe a couple of times unless im completely wrong here, but it seems we are not even trying to blitz. also, i soooo agree about JMFW. again today we saw payma give up too much room as he watched the recievers in front of him catch balls. our safeties got beat a little also, especially the big play to meachum. damnit im frustrated with this D. i know no one has said a ton about the O, which does look pretty good. it seems to me however, that the O in the last two games, wether its play calling or just a let down from the players, that after the half they seem to be pretty flat. maybe its just me, but the O needs to bring out the same intensity in the 3rd as they have done in the 1st. that may help the D out a little too, maybe.

hamrob
09-21-2008, 11:27 PM
I would expect after giving up 500+ yards to the Saints...that our defense will be rated dead last in the league. That can't be good!

hamrob
09-21-2008, 11:29 PM
well, yah, you are probly correct on that one. i just have not even seen much of a blitz at all. maybe a couple of times unless im completely wrong here, but it seems we are not even trying to blitz. also, i soooo agree about JMFW. again today we saw payma give up too much room as he watched the recievers in front of him catch balls. our safeties got beat a little also, especially the big play to meachum. damnit im frustrated with this D. i know no one has said a ton about the O, which does look pretty good. it seems to me however, that the O in the last two games, wether its play calling or just a let down from the players, that after the half they seem to be pretty flat. maybe its just me, but the O needs to bring out the same intensity in the 3rd as they have done in the 1st. that may help the D out a little too, maybe.I've seen quite a few and the guys blitzing are getting taken out of the play easily or they're not taking good angles. The best guy I've see the last couple of years was Lynch. I think they're scared to send DJ...because it will expose us even further in the passing game.

omac
09-21-2008, 11:35 PM
Next week will be Slowick's easiest game to plan.

Stack the line to stop LJ and make Thigpen try to beat you. KC has one WR (Bowe) and Gonzo. That's it.

Unfortunately, it could be a game where he might start thinking he knows what he's doing. I'll give him some time, but as was posted earlier by someone, if the Broncos had been scoring like this last year, Bates would still be the DC.

:coffee:

If we beat KC with anything less than a 35-0 score and I'll be pissed ... nah, I probably won't be. :D

omac
09-21-2008, 11:45 PM
I know he'd rather be a head coach, but what if we throw an insane amount of cash at Rex Ryan to come in here and head our defense, and even draft for our defense next season.

Otherwise, is there a really talented, imaginative college DC who can be a young, defense version of Shanny? Another plus is that he'll know college defensive talent very well for the draft.

smith49
09-21-2008, 11:49 PM
I've seen quite a few and the guys blitzing are getting taken out of the play easily or they're not taking good angles. The best guy I've see the last couple of years was Lynch. I think they're scared to send DJ...because it will expose us even further in the passing game.

well maybe they should grow a sack and send DJ. hell, i don't know how they could pick apart the pass D any worse then they already are. at least he might be able to limit the 20 minutes the qb seems to have down to a respectable couple of seconds or so.

Simple Jaded
09-21-2008, 11:49 PM
You know what sucks? Champ was a big advocate of Slowik and his ideas on how to run a defense. We threw Bates under the bus and he didnt have the benefit of an offense that was averaging 40 points a game. Coyer was more creative with blitzing than this...and I never thought Id say that.
Absolutely, he did!

Slowik must have been a big factor in Bailey's MVPish season, that's the explanation that makes sense to me......

lex
09-21-2008, 11:50 PM
I know he'd rather be a head coach, but what if we throw an insane amount of cash at Rex Ryan to come in here and head our defense, and even draft for our defense next season.

Otherwise, is there a really talented, imaginative college DC who can be a young, defense version of Shanny? Another plus is that he'll know college defensive talent very well for the draft.


Whats Dom Capers up to?

topscribe
09-21-2008, 11:51 PM
Bates was brought in for his scheme.

That's right. :noidea:

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lex
09-21-2008, 11:53 PM
That's right. :noidea:

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Well, its not really fair to complain about his scheme in that it didnt match personnel when he was actually brought in to install a new scheme.

Northman
09-21-2008, 11:56 PM
If we beat KC with anything less than a 35-0 score and I'll be pissed ... nah, I probably won't be. :D

Honestly, if we get out of the gate 4-0 i think that is a good start considering some commentators, media, etc had us probably 1-2 or 0-3 coming out of the gate.

topscribe
09-22-2008, 12:07 AM
Well, its not really fair to complain about his scheme in that it didnt match personnel when he was actually brought in to install a new scheme.

Whatever. After he was brought in, it became obvious the Broncos did not
have the personnel to complement Bates' new scheme. That is when he
should have been coach enough to change his new scheme to another new
scheme: one commensurate to his personnel. He wasn't. He's gone. That is all.

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Simple Jaded
09-22-2008, 12:14 AM
Don't even bother to mention the Marvin Lewis/Rex Ryan types as candidates, too established and too smart to take this job......it's not going to happen, so you should probably just continue to focus your attention on the Coyer and Slowik Yes-Men types.

My guess is they'd promote from within again, so they could continue to run a defense that Shanahan wants them to run.

You may not like it, but that's the reality of the situation......

Lonestar
09-22-2008, 12:28 AM
Don't even bother to mention the Marvin Lewis/Rex Ryan types as candidates, too established and too smart to take this job......it's not going to happen, so you should probably just continue to focus your attention on the Coyer and Slowik Yes-Men types.

My guess is they'd promote from within again, so they could continue to run a defense that Shanahan wants them to run.

You may not like it, but that's the reality of the situation......

Your right on about the mikey yes men..

I would think that if one is a mastermind about beating defenses he should be able to draw them up also.. Perhaps that is what is going on now He is trying to be the DC also with Slowik being the mouth piece..

That said whoever is thinking this weaks Yes I meant WEAKs rush three and keep your CB 6-7 yards off the LOS SHOULD BE FIRED..

Lonestar
09-22-2008, 12:28 AM
Don't even bother to mention the Marvin Lewis/Rex Ryan types as candidates, too established and too smart to take this job......it's not going to happen, so you should probably just continue to focus your attention on the Coyer and Slowik Yes-Men types.

My guess is they'd promote from within again, so they could continue to run a defense that Shanahan wants them to run.

You may not like it, but that's the reality of the situation......

Your right on about the mikey yes men..

I would think that if one is a mastermind about beating defenses he should be able to draw them up also.. Perhaps that is what is going on now He is trying to be the DC also with Slowik being the mouth piece..

That said whoever is thinking this weaks Yes I meant WEAKs rush three and keep your CB 6-7 yards off the LOS SHOULD BE FIRED..

BTW Buddy Ryan one of the original Architects of the 3-4 should be available next year after Dallas' megalomaniac fires him.. He might take the job just for the jollies..

weazel
09-22-2008, 01:07 AM
cant blame it all on Slowik. Its impossible to turn garbage into gold.

omac
09-22-2008, 01:12 AM
Whats Dom Capers up to?

Uh, don't know if you're serious, since I didn't really follow him :D ... anyway, currently works for the Pats as their secondary coach.

omac
09-22-2008, 01:13 AM
cant blame it all on Slowik. Its impossible to turn garbage into gold.

Gold was garbage ... uhuh uhuh uhuh :D

lex
09-22-2008, 06:25 AM
Whatever. After he was brought in, it became obvious the Broncos did not
have the personnel to complement Bates' new scheme. That is when he
should have been coach enough to change his new scheme to another new
scheme: one commensurate to his personnel. He wasn't. He's gone. That is all.

-----



No not "whatever". When you bring in a new guy with a new scheme you accept that there might be growing pains. Shanahan didnt have the patience to let it play out. Im not saying Shanahan should have stuck with it and Im not saying he shouldnt have. But Bates tried implementing what he was brought into do. And its quite likely when Amon Gordon is your defensive tackle and Ian Gold is your linebacker, it doesnt matter what system you have. Slowik was implemented to get back to a style of play that was used before and there is now upgrades at Will, Sam, and DT and they still suck.

lex
09-22-2008, 06:28 AM
cant blame it all on Slowik. Its impossible to turn garbage into gold.

We have upgrades at DT, Sam, Will, and possibly Safety, yet we might be worse than a year ago. While our personnel on defense isnt great, its also not bottom 5 which is what youre seeing on Sundays.

Tned
09-22-2008, 06:53 AM
We have upgrades at DT, Sam, Will, and possibly Safety, yet we might be worse than a year ago. While our personnel on defense isnt great, its also not bottom 5 which is what youre seeing on Sundays.

Well, I didn't hear it myself, but someone posted on here that DJ (I think it was DJ) said that on every big play they have given up, it has been because of miscommunication among the players.

If this is in fact true, then it could be largely in part due to having so many new faces in new places. I'm not saying that this could be a top 5 defense, but that it is possible that having two new safeties, a new SLB that missed preseason and the first game. A MLB, who filled in at SLB last year being move to MLB, after being second string through much of camp, DJ moving back to WLB, Robertson being new.

Six of our eleven starters are either new, or playing in a new position. On top of that, they have a new DC and a new scheme. While 'time' might not heal what is wrong with this defense, it is very possible that they will get better in time.

However, I'm not sure how you explain the lack of pressure. The decision to go with a fairly unorthodox three man front (when you have a 4-3 defense) in the late first quarter or early second.

There are a lot of questions that need to be answered inside the film rooms and coaches offices in Dove Valley. The good news is we have KC next week, which shouldn't be able to launch the aerial attack that has been killing us, and we have Jax in a few weeks, which is much the same. I would have put TB in that same category until Griese went and passed 64 times for 400+ yards, but he was just over 50% and threw three picks.

The point is that we have some time before we see our next offense that is on the level of SD and NO. With Brady out for the season, it is very easy to argue that SD and NO are by FAR the most potent aerial attacks we will see this year, and we only have SD one more time.

The key next week will be seeing if we make Thigpen look like Tom Brady, or if we make him look like Thigpen.

omac
09-22-2008, 07:04 AM
I'm wondering, when the Saints were about to run their last desperation play from deep in their backfield with only seconds left, was anyone else concerned that we might give up a TD, even through a crazy, multi-lateral rushing play? :D

lex
09-22-2008, 07:07 AM
I'm wondering, when the Saints were about to run their last desperation play from deep in their backfield with only seconds left, was anyone else concerned that we might give up a TD, even through a crazy, multi-lateral rushing play? :D

Yeah but I was more worried about a pass interference.

Tned
09-22-2008, 07:10 AM
Yeah but I was more worried about a pass interference.

I was more worried about a long pass, with PI. I expected them to make a longer pass, then start the lateralling, but I guess they figure the chances are that you get immediately tackled on the longer pass.

Especially once I saw how short the pass was, and knowing how deep our defense was, I did not have any fear of them lateralling it all the way down the field. I was just hoping, "no penalty, no penalty". I just didn't want to give them another play.

ApaOps5
09-22-2008, 07:16 AM
I'm wondering, when the Saints were about to run their last desperation play from deep in their backfield with only seconds left, was anyone else concerned that we might give up a TD, even through a crazy, multi-lateral rushing play? :D

Oh yeah I was scared. I thought all they had to do was line up someone with Webster and he would have blown the coverage and it would have somehow ended up a TD.

SmilinAssasSin27
09-22-2008, 07:22 AM
Our D looked awful, but let me say this...Shanny didn't help em any by going deep 1st play after the D had been on the field for what seemed like 20 minutes. Remember...NO had a few plays prior to the fumble for TD, THEN the D was on the field for a long drive. Shanny turns around and goes deep next pley. INT or not, Shanny was wiling to put an exhausted D back on the field almost immediately.

Secondly, we have played 2 explosive offenses the past 2 weeks. Lets calm down a bit and see how they do against the normal offenses like Tampa, etc.

lex
09-22-2008, 07:31 AM
Well, I didn't hear it myself, but someone posted on here that DJ (I think it was DJ) said that on every big play they have given up, it has been because of miscommunication among the players.

If this is in fact true, then it could be largely in part due to having so many new faces in new places. I'm not saying that this could be a top 5 defense, but that it is possible that having two new safeties, a new SLB that missed preseason and the first game. A MLB, who filled in at SLB last year being move to MLB, after being second string through much of camp, DJ moving back to WLB, Robertson being new.

Six of our eleven starters are either new, or playing in a new position. On top of that, they have a new DC and a new scheme. While 'time' might not heal what is wrong with this defense, it is very possible that they will get better in time.

However, I'm not sure how you explain the lack of pressure. The decision to go with a fairly unorthodox three man front (when you have a 4-3 defense) in the late first quarter or early second.

There are a lot of questions that need to be answered inside the film rooms and coaches offices in Dove Valley. The good news is we have KC next week, which shouldn't be able to launch the aerial attack that has been killing us, and we have Jax in a few weeks, which is much the same. I would have put TB in that same category until Griese went and passed 64 times for 400+ yards, but he was just over 50% and threw three picks.

The point is that we have some time before we see our next offense that is on the level of SD and NO. With Brady out for the season, it is very easy to argue that SD and NO are by FAR the most potent aerial attacks we will see this year, and we only have SD one more time.

The key next week will be seeing if we make Thigpen look like Tom Brady, or if we make him look like Thigpen.


As you alluded to, the bigger problem is not scheming pressure. They had poor communication. OK, so instead of giving up 30 yard plays, theyll give up 14 yard plays. They have all day to throw so theyre bound to find someone open. I just really question whether or not Slowik has it within him to scheme pass pressure. In another thread I had posted a link to a site by Green Bay fans that were enumerating a variety of problems with Slowik and the inability to generate turnovers topped the list.

Tned
09-22-2008, 07:32 AM
Secondly, we have played 2 explosive offenses the past 2 weeks. Lets calm down a bit and see how they do against the normal offenses like Tampa, etc.

This is what I have been saying. We have a defense with a lot of new faces and old faces in new positions -- a new defensive coordinator -- a new defensive scheme. On top of that, while we have made early stops, we have seemingly gone into a 'prevent' style defense early with these big leads.

With Brady gone, there are arguably no teams left on our schedule (until SD again in week 17) that has the offensive firepower of SD and NO.

While we have been seeing mostly passing, because we have been playing with the lead, we have done a decent job stopping the run, allowing 106 yards and 4.4 ypc. Not great, but not horrible. Also, much of this has come with our defense playing nickel and dime packages and three man fronts, because we are playing the 'pass' to avoid giving up the big plays.

When we start facing teams that don't have the aerial firepower of NO and TB, it is very possible that are defense will turn in a much better performance.

lex
09-22-2008, 07:34 AM
Our D looked awful, but let me say this...Shanny didn't help em any by going deep 1st play after the D had been on the field for what seemed like 20 minutes. Remember...NO had a few plays prior to the fumble for TD, THEN the D was on the field for a long drive. Shanny turns around and goes deep next pley. INT or not, Shanny was wiling to put an exhausted D back on the field almost immediately.

Secondly, we have played 2 explosive offenses the past 2 weeks. Lets calm down a bit and see how they do against the normal offenses like Tampa, etc.

Thats ridiculous. For two weeks in a row the defense has allowed the other teams offense run up and down the field at will for all of the 2-4th qtrs in each game and youre going to point to one call on offense? This monstrosity on defense, is not the fault of the offense. Shanahans bigger problem is thinking Slowik had the answer and could get back to an aggressive blitzing defense.

lex
09-22-2008, 07:37 AM
This is what I have been saying. We have a defense with a lot of new faces and old faces in new positions -- a new defensive coordinator -- a new defensive scheme. On top of that, while we have made early stops, we have seemingly gone into a 'prevent' style defense early with these big leads.

With Brady gone, there are arguably no teams left on our schedule (until SD again in week 17) that has the offensive firepower of SD and NO.

While we have been seeing mostly passing, because we have been playing with the lead, we have done a decent job stopping the run, allowing 106 yards and 4.4 ypc. Not great, but not horrible. Also, much of this has come with our defense playing nickel and dime packages and three man fronts, because we are playing the 'pass' to avoid giving up the big plays.

When we start facing teams that don't have the aerial firepower of NO and TB, it is very possible that are defense will turn in a much better performance.


The problem is that its entirely possible that we would face a quality offense if we were to make the post season. And to play less than stellar offenses could easily give the false sense that everything is ok.

Tned
09-22-2008, 07:42 AM
The problem is that its entirely possible that we would face a quality offense if we were to make the post season. And to play less than stellar offenses could easily give the false sense that everything is ok.

Don't get me wrong, I am not at all 'comfortable' with this years defense. It might very well be we have to live with this defense all year, and then attempt to draft/sign FA our way out of it, possibly get another DC.

Either way, I agree that if our defense doesn't improve between now and the playoffs, then it will be as much luck as anything if we can advance in the playoffs.

EastCoastBronco
09-22-2008, 08:24 AM
Our D looked awful, but let me say this...Shanny didn't help em any by going deep 1st play after the D had been on the field for what seemed like 20 minutes. Remember...NO had a few plays prior to the fumble for TD, THEN the D was on the field for a long drive. Shanny turns around and goes deep next pley. INT or not, Shanny was wiling to put an exhausted D back on the field almost immediately.

Secondly, we have played 2 explosive offenses the past 2 weeks. Lets calm down a bit and see how they do against the normal offenses like Tampa, etc.

Griese lit up Chicago's D like a Christmas tree...And they have a pass rush. If he's still starting when they come here he'll torch the hell out of ours...Just for old times sake...

ApaOps5
09-22-2008, 08:30 AM
Griese lit up Chicago's D like a Christmas tree...And they have a pass rush. If he's still starting when they come here he'll torch the hell out of ours...Just for old times sake...

Yeah but we are talking about Griese. Next week he is a lock to throw 4 picks.

BroncoJoe
09-22-2008, 08:32 AM
Griese lit up Chicago's D like a Christmas tree...And they have a pass rush. If he's still starting when they come here he'll torch the hell out of ours...Just for old times sake...

That'll happen if you throw it 67 times...

He also had three interceptions.

LRtagger
09-22-2008, 08:51 AM
Mix in a few blitzes and keep the OLine guessing on who's coming and we may be able to get QBs out of their rhythm a bit. What we are doing now is just NOT working at all.

This is our biggest problem IMO. We are not giving the opposing QB anything to think about. We show the exact same looks play after play. We need to bring different looks to confuse the offense.

Show 9 on the line of scrimmage and mix the blitzes up. This is exactly why the Eagles are so good on D. They mix up their looks. Bring different blitzes and disguise their coverages.

We put 3 or 4 on the LOS, maybe blitz one LB and drop back into a soft zone coverage. Any QB in this league could make the correct reads on us and pick us apart. I wouldnt be surprised if KC put up 21+ points on us next week. It will be easy for Tyler to make the proper reads against our high school defensive scheme.

broncofaninfla
09-22-2008, 09:23 AM
I agree with the posts about us having a weak defensive lne. We are god awful up front. No pressure on the QB at all. These QB's are pro's. ANY of them can pick us apart with the time and passing lanes they are given. The talent just isn't there for us on the DL. Pretty weak on LB and Safety as well. It will be up to Slowik to scheme some better pressure but blitz packages. Blitzes come with a risk of giving up a big play but we are already giving up big plays. Might as well lay the wood and go for it. If not, we are going to lose some humiliating heart breakers this year.

scottxray
09-22-2008, 10:03 AM
I agree with the posts about us having a weak defensive lne. We are god awful up front. No pressure on the QB at all. These QB's are pro's. ANY of them can pick us apart with the time and passing lanes they are given. The talent just isn't there for us on the DL. Pretty weak on LB and Safety as well. It will be up to Slowik to scheme some better pressure but blitz packages. Blitzes come with a risk of giving up a big play but we are already giving up big plays. Might as well lay the wood and go for it. If not, we are going to lose some humiliating heart breakers this year.

Slowik rushing 3 when even 4 don't get the job done is BS. It looked like we were playing prevent from the middle of the 2nd quarter on yesterday.

The blitz packages he puts in are so ineffective it isn't funny. Its either all out (and STILL gets picked up) or no blitz at all. He needs to Disguise the blitz rather than tip it every play. Why no delayed blitzes , middle blitzes , and for gods sake get the CB's up and jam some receivers, since playing 8 yards back is SO successful.

Champ played okay yesterday, but it is pretty clear he has lost a bit in coverage since a few years ago. He doesn't have the closing speed he once had...so close the initial gap up and play more man on his side, at least.

Announcers keep talking about our LBs speed but they are not fast , and can't contain the sideline runs until the runner is 5-8 yards downfield.

We won yesterday....so WHY do I feel like we lost? It's the _efense!

SOCALORADO.
09-22-2008, 10:20 AM
Thats ridiculous. For two weeks in a row the defense has allowed the other teams offense run up and down the field at will for all of the 2-4th qtrs in each game and youre going to point to one call on offense? This monstrosity on defense, is not the fault of the offense. Shanahans bigger problem is thinking Slowik had the answer and could get back to an aggressive blitzing defense.

SO what to do? Bring back Lynch and let him spy as a 4th LB?
I am not sure about that.
DEN plain and simply does not have the personel right now to play effective defense. That just dont have it IMHO.
The only thing i can think of barring a trade, is to disguise the blitz schemes more than they are, and send in the house on specific plays.
Live and die by the sword.
Its better than letting the enemy slowly twist and turn the sword into you while smiling.

ApaOps5
09-22-2008, 10:24 AM
SO what to do? Bring back Lynch and let him spy as a 4th LB?
I am not sure about that.
DEN plain and simply does not have the personel right now to play effective defense. That just dont have it IMHO.
The only thing i can think of barring a trade, is to disguise the blitz schemes more than they are, and send in the house on specific plays.
Live and die by the sword.
Its better than letting the enemy slowly twist and turn the sword into you while smiling.

Why not blitz the crap out of teams. Whats the worst that can happen? I mean heaven forbid they give up the big play! Heck they already do that in a prevent defense that starts in the 2nd quarter.

This offense can make up for the defense giving up the big play. They have done it 3 weeks now. Might as well give up the big play being bold and attacking rather than being meek and passive.

CoachChaz
09-22-2008, 10:27 AM
Why not blitz the crap out of teams. Whats the worst that can happen? I mean heaven forbid they give up the big play! Heck they already do that in a prevent defense that starts in the 2nd quarter.

This offense can make up for the defense giving up the big play. They have done it 3 weeks now. Might as well give up the big play being bold and attacking rather than being meek and passive.

We cant do it because we dont have the talent up front and the worst that could happen is the LB's get caught and the DB's are on an island.

LRtagger
09-22-2008, 10:31 AM
I agree with the posts about us having a weak defensive lne. We are god awful up front. No pressure on the QB at all. These QB's are pro's. ANY of them can pick us apart with the time and passing lanes they are given. The talent just isn't there for us on the DL. Pretty weak on LB and Safety as well. It will be up to Slowik to scheme some better pressure but blitz packages. Blitzes come with a risk of giving up a big play but we are already giving up big plays. Might as well lay the wood and go for it. If not, we are going to lose some humiliating heart breakers this year.

When you don't have the talent on the line to get pressure on the QB, you dont say "oh well, we dont have the talent...we will just have to rush 3 and give up small chunks of yardage and hope that our offense can put up 40 points"

As a coach or coordinator, you are supposed to come up with a SCHEME that hides your flaws, rather than blatantly displaying them. If you have a weak front four, then you need to bring in new blitz packages and confuse the opposing team into making mistakes.

I think Slowdick is just scared of giving up the big play, so we sit in a typical 4-3 and let our corners give a 15 yard cushion. Sometimes we might mix it up and only rush three and spread our secondary out to allow 7-8 yard underneath throws. Sometimes we get really dicey and blitz DJ and drop a slow DE into coverage on Bush or Sproles. A great way to create confusion by letting a slow ass DE cover a RB with 4.3 speed.

Take the game against Oakland, for instance. We were without our best offensive player in Marshall, yet we drew up a GAMEPLAN with some creative looks and routes and made a star out of a rookie that most of the league had never heard of. If you have a GOOD defensive mind on your coaching staff, then you can do the same thing on the opposite side of the ball.

The problem is, our coaching staff combined does not have the defensive knowledge that half of the other team's assistant linebacker coaches do.

Bottom line is our defensive scheme SUCKS ASS. It has nothing to do with our talent. :mad: :mad: :mad:

LRtagger
09-22-2008, 10:34 AM
http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2005/01/27/175x131/images_sizedimage_027163811.jpg

http://runningthroughrain.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/youre-fired.jpg

SOCALORADO.
09-22-2008, 10:37 AM
Why not blitz the crap out of teams. Whats the worst that can happen? I mean heaven forbid they give up the big play! Heck they already do that in a prevent defense that starts in the 2nd quarter.

This offense can make up for the defense giving up the big play. They have done it 3 weeks now. Might as well give up the big play being bold and attacking rather than being meek and passive.

Sure. I'll send in a memo. I am all for it, and i agree. The defense gives up huge plays anyways, so trying to kill the opposing QB by halftime isnt such a bad idea.:defense:

LRtagger
09-22-2008, 10:48 AM
We cant do it because we dont have the talent up front and the worst that could happen is the LB's get caught and the DB's are on an island.

So? Is that really any worse than our LB's getting burnt by a TE or RB?? Or our CB having help, but leaving such a huge cushion that Brees can complete 39 of 48 passes?

I'll take my chances with Champ and Bly man-to-man. Leaving our LBs in zone coverage obviously is not the answer. If we bring the house and let champ and dre press, we might just create some turnovers. The worst that can happen is the opposing QB throws for 400 yards (oh wait...), but at least he will be on his back.

Rattle the QB and maybe he makes some mistakes. Give him time to make the proper reads and he goes 39 of 48 for a billion yards...it doesn't matter what kind of studs you have in your secondary.

ApaOps5
09-22-2008, 10:56 AM
We cant do it because we dont have the talent up front and the worst that could happen is the LB's get caught and the DB's are on an island.

Thats not my point. Either way they are going to get picked apart and eaten up. The zone and other crap they are running isn't working. Might as well go all out as the results will be the same.

Lonestar
09-22-2008, 11:03 AM
So? Is that really any worse than our LB's getting burnt by a TE or RB?? Or our CB having help, but leaving such a huge cushion that Brees can complete 39 of 48 passes?

I'll take my chances with Champ and Bly man-to-man. Leaving our LBs in zone coverage obviously is not the answer. If we bring the house and let champ and dre press, we might just create some turnovers. The worst that can happen is the opposing QB throws for 400 yards (oh wait...), but at least he will be on his back.

Rattle the QB and maybe he makes some mistakes. Give him time to make the proper reads and he goes 39 of 48 for a billion yards...it doesn't matter what kind of studs you have in your secondary.


well put but rush four each time AT least take all the LB except DJ out and replace them DB and let them cover everyone that comes out for passes..

Blitz a different one each and every play.. so we have 5 coming instead of three all coming from a different spot.. if we can't cover 5 with our 6 it is time to mail it in..

Chip them at the LOS and hope it disrupts the timing just enough to cause ciaos..

Buff
09-22-2008, 11:11 AM
When you don't have the talent on the line to get pressure on the QB, you dont say "oh well, we dont have the talent...we will just have to rush 3 and give up small chunks of yardage and hope that our offense can put up 40 points"

As a coach or coordinator, you are supposed to come up with a SCHEME that hides your flaws, rather than blatantly displaying them. If you have a weak front four, then you need to bring in new blitz packages and confuse the opposing team into making mistakes.

I think Slowdick is just scared of giving up the big play, so we sit in a typical 4-3 and let our corners give a 15 yard cushion. Sometimes we might mix it up and only rush three and spread our secondary out to allow 7-8 yard underneath throws. Sometimes we get really dicey and blitz DJ and drop a slow DE into coverage on Bush or Sproles. A great way to create confusion by letting a slow ass DE cover a RB with 4.3 speed.

Take the game against Oakland, for instance. We were without our best offensive player in Marshall, yet we drew up a GAMEPLAN with some creative looks and routes and made a star out of a rookie that most of the league had never heard of. If you have a GOOD defensive mind on your coaching staff, then you can do the same thing on the opposite side of the ball.

The problem is, our coaching staff combined does not have the defensive knowledge that half of the other team's assistant linebacker coaches do.

Bottom line is our defensive scheme SUCKS ASS. It has nothing to do with our talent. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Good post. Much of what we are seeing is flaws in the scheme. But I disagree that it has nothing to do with talent-- I think a bad scheme could be covered up a bit with a monster D-line and a ball-hawking safety.

But going back to this vanilla "bend but don't break" defense is killing me. It reminded me alot of the Indy game from 2 years ago where Reggie Wayne continued to torch us and instead of making any adjustments, we hoped that they would make a mistake first. Well, that didn't happen, and we lost in the final minutes.

IMO, we did exactly the opposite of what we should have done from a scheme standpoint yesterday. Once we went up 21-3, that should have been the time to throw everything but the kitchen sink at them. But instead of staying aggressive, we went to a 3-man front and played not to get beat. The most frustrating thing to me is the apparent lack of adjustments. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you're getting your ass kicked on every 3rd down, then you might try something different.

All that said, we did play 2 pretty explosive offenses with pro-bowl calibur QB's the last 2 weeks. If there were ever a week to experiment with new schemes and get your confidence back, it'd be the week you're about to face Tyler Thigpen.

topscribe
09-22-2008, 11:36 AM
Slowik rushing 3 when even 4 don't get the job done is BS. It looked like we were playing prevent from the middle of the 2nd quarter on yesterday.

The blitz packages he puts in are so ineffective it isn't funny. Its either all out (and STILL gets picked up) or no blitz at all. He needs to Disguise the blitz rather than tip it every play. Why no delayed blitzes , middle blitzes , and for gods sake get the CB's up and jam some receivers, since playing 8 yards back is SO successful.

Champ played okay yesterday, but it is pretty clear he has lost a bit in coverage since a few years ago. He doesn't have the closing speed he once had...so close the initial gap up and play more man on his side, at least.

Announcers keep talking about our LBs speed but they are not fast , and can't contain the sideline runs until the runner is 5-8 yards downfield.

We won yesterday....so WHY do I feel like we lost? It's the _efense!

The announcers talk about the LBs speed because they are fast. D.J. is
known for his speed. So is Boss: That is why the Broncos acquired him.
I guess you haven't noticed the times Webster has been deep downfield on
long plays by opponents? On Sproles' run, Webster was the defender who
was the furthest downfield in pursuit. In the Oakland game, he was step-
for-step downfield with a WR on a pass play. The WR did have a step on him,
but we're talking about a MLB, for pity's sake.

The Broncos are obviously having problems in pass defense, but speed at LB
is not one of them.

I also don't understand your comments about Champ. I have sat amazed at
his speed this year as he has played the last line of defense on STs. We can
point our fingers at the secondary . . . and the linebackers . . . all we want,
but the problems are up front, not in the backfield. Once the DL is solved,
we will be amazed at how much the LBs and secondary have "improved."

-----

Buff
09-22-2008, 11:42 AM
The announcers talk about the LBs speed because they are fast. D.J. is
known for his speed. So is Boss: That is why the Broncos acquired him.
I guess you haven't noticed the times Webster has been deep downfield on
long plays by opponents? On Sproles' run, Webster was the defender who
was the furthest downfield in pursuit. In the Oakland game, he was step-
for-step downfield with a WR on a pass play. The WR did have a step on him,
but we're talking about a MLB, for pity's sake.

The Broncos are obviously having problems in pass defense, but speed at LB
is not one of them.

I also don't understand your comments about Champ. I have sat amazed at
his speed this year as he has played the last line of defense on STs. We can
point our fingers at the secondary . . . and the linebackers . . . all we want,
but the problems are up front, not in the backfield. Once the DL is solved,
we will be amazed at how much the LBs and secondary have "improved."

-----

Boss can run and DJ can cover ground in a hurry-- But Webster looked like he had a piano tied to his ass on that Sproles run. He may be fairly fast compared to some of the bigger LB's in the league, but I wouldn't say speed is a strength of his.

oubronco
09-22-2008, 11:44 AM
all i keep hearing is our secondary is our strength but WR's are running so wide open on every play it's not funny. When you have no pass rush the qb has all day to throw but you would think the secondary could have better coverage than what we are seeing. they are ALL getting burned

Lonestar
09-22-2008, 11:50 AM
all i keep hearing is our secondary is our strength but WR's are running so wide open on every play it's not funny. When you have no pass rush the qb has all day to throw but you would think the secondary could have better coverage than what we are seeing. they are ALL getting burned


OUR CB are a strength the safeties IMO are a liability. they are the backstop and intimidaters, (See Lynch of 2004-06 or Atwater) but not this year.. Champ covers his side (portion) of the field well it is the other 2/3 that are not being covered..

The fact is the defense is not being:

Called well
designed well
communicated well
executed well
or we flat do not have the talent @ the LOS..

topscribe
09-22-2008, 11:56 AM
Boss can run and DJ can cover ground in a hurry-- But Webster looked like he had a piano tied to his ass on that Sproles run. He may be fairly fast compared to some of the bigger LB's in the league, but I wouldn't say speed is a strength of his.

The Sproles run was one of the instances where I was impressed with Webster's
speed. What would you expect him to look like in comparison to Sproles, a
4.3 RB, for pity's sake? But when Sproles crossed the goal line, Webster was
the closest one to him. And to who else would you compare him in speed,
than other linebackers? Isn't Webster a linebacker?

All I know is that one thing that has impressed me this year is Webster's
speed for a MLB. I took note of that long before these discussions ever hit
the board. In fact, while watching a replay during the Oakland game, a
friend and I turned to each other and exclaimed, "Did you see that? That's
a wide receiver!" We were referring to Webster, downfield, step-for-step
with the WR.

I repeat: the Broncos have some problems on defense, obviously. But speed
at LB does not appear to me as one of them.

-----

smith49
09-22-2008, 12:47 PM
The Sproles run was one of the instances where I was impressed with Webster's
speed. What would you expect him to look like in comparison to Sproles, a
4.3 RB, for pity's sake? But when Sproles crossed the goal line, Webster was
the closest one to him. And to who else would you compare him in speed,
than other linebackers? Isn't Webster a linebacker?

All I know is that one thing that has impressed me this year is Webster's
speed for a MLB. I took note of that long before these discussions ever hit
the board. In fact, while watching a replay during the Oakland game, a
friend and I turned to each other and exclaimed, "Did you see that? That's
a wide receiver!" We were referring to Webster, downfield, step-for-step
with the WR.

I repeat: the Broncos have some problems on defense, obviously. But speed
at LB does not appear to me as one of them.

-----


there is absolutely no way i could have said that better top. champ is still fast, bly is fast, and the lbs are pretty damn fast. i don't see how anyone could say anything different. the problem is that we have zero pass rush. hell, i think i could complete passes on our dbs and lbs if i had 20 minutes to find someone.

LRtagger
09-22-2008, 12:55 PM
Good post. Much of what we are seeing is flaws in the scheme. But I disagree that it has nothing to do with talent-- I think a bad scheme could be covered up a bit with a monster D-line and a ball-hawking safety.

But going back to this vanilla "bend but don't break" defense is killing me. It reminded me alot of the Indy game from 2 years ago where Reggie Wayne continued to torch us and instead of making any adjustments, we hoped that they would make a mistake first. Well, that didn't happen, and we lost in the final minutes.

IMO, we did exactly the opposite of what we should have done from a scheme standpoint yesterday. Once we went up 21-3, that should have been the time to throw everything but the kitchen sink at them. But instead of staying aggressive, we went to a 3-man front and played not to get beat. The most frustrating thing to me is the apparent lack of adjustments. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you're getting your ass kicked on every 3rd down, then you might try something different.

All that said, we did play 2 pretty explosive offenses with pro-bowl calibur QB's the last 2 weeks. If there were ever a week to experiment with new schemes and get your confidence back, it'd be the week you're about to face Tyler Thigpen.

I agree. I didn't mean to insinuate that we are loaded with talent on D, but IMO the talent we DO have on D should be good enough to keep teams from throwing for 400+ yards and scoring at will. I mean, we don't have a pro-bowl defense, but you have to admit that we have more talent than what it looks like on Sundays. We have enough talent on D that we should be winning games by more than 1 or 2 points with our offense.

It is all about scheme. Good coaches make bad players look better than they are. Bad coaches make good players look worse than they are. Right now our good players on D look worse than they are.

Just look at Slowick's history. His schemes suck no matter what players he has under him.

OB
09-22-2008, 12:59 PM
Seriously - No corner or safety can cover man to man when the QB has all day - the WR know what patterns they are running and where to go - the CB's and S are just trying there best to stay close to them w/o touching them

For us its all about the pass rush at the moment (or the front 4) but if we see that why cant the coaches :confused:

elsid13
09-22-2008, 02:46 PM
I actually took a day and thought about this. We have talent on the defense on all three levels. What we don't have is a scheme that actually letting those guys play.
It time to pressure the QB and force them to make a good play. Sitting back on 3rd and long is letting the other team dictated the game.

SmilinAssasSin27
09-22-2008, 04:44 PM
Griese lit up Chicago's D like a Christmas tree...And they have a pass rush. If he's still starting when they come here he'll torch the hell out of ours...Just for old times sake...

he also had 3 INTs...He's no Brees. We'll get some balls our way.

SmilinAssasSin27
09-22-2008, 04:45 PM
I actually took a day and thought about this. We have talent on the defense on all three levels. What we don't have is a scheme that actually letting those guys play.
It time to pressure the QB and force them to make a good play. Sitting back on 3rd and long is letting the other team dictated the game.

we may have talent at all 3 levels, but that is at DT, OLB and CB. We still have issues w/ MLB, DE and S.

Stedtfeld
09-22-2008, 04:58 PM
I know, they need to step up. I think they can do it though

scottxray
09-22-2008, 06:14 PM
The announcers talk about the LBs speed because they are fast. D.J. is
known for his speed. So is Boss: That is why the Broncos acquired him.
I guess you haven't noticed the times Webster has been deep downfield on
long plays by opponents? On Sproles' run, Webster was the defender who
was the furthest downfield in pursuit. In the Oakland game, he was step-
for-step downfield with a WR on a pass play. The WR did have a step on him,
but we're talking about a MLB, for pity's sake.

The Broncos are obviously having problems in pass defense, but speed at LB
is not one of them.

I also don't understand your comments about Champ. I have sat amazed at
his speed this year as he has played the last line of defense on STs. We can
point our fingers at the secondary . . . and the linebackers . . . all we want,
but the problems are up front, not in the backfield. Once the DL is solved,
we will be amazed at how much the LBs and secondary have "improved."

-----


Yeah, Ivé noticed Webster downfield...trailing the play as a quick RB steps away from him. Or on the sideline diving at the RB, just BEHIND him, and not touching him as he goes in for a score or a first down. If we are going to put Webster in coverage on WR or RB this will continue ALL year. He reacts too late, and gets beat too easily. The fact that he was closest to Sproles is an indictment of the rest of the backfield, not a complement to him.

DJ does have the speed , but you're right that the D line gets pushed back and the Lbs have trouble getting around the blocks and the traffic. So maybe its the D line that is helping make the LBs look slow. The point is they do LOOK slow, and they aren't flowing to the ball until its too late.

As far as Champ...he is still our BEST single defender, and I didn't say he was
making mistakes or slow. But he HAS lost a bit in closing speed, and thats the difference between a shut down corner and one who tackles the receiver AFTER he makes the catch. Yes, he has helped out on ST and saved one or two big returns from being worse. But playing 8-10 yards deep isn't getting it done for either him or Bly. They need to start playing some man and letting the safties support. Boss should be able to neutralise the TE or if not him then DJ. Instead they commit to the run, and are too late to see the recievers coming by them. I do think that yesterday the short center of the field was covered better...but thye left other holes on the outside.

Overall our safties have been playing like Dog Shyt , being constantly out of position,overpursuing and taking themselves out of the play, when they aren't completely misreading the play to start and leaving huge parts of the field uncovered with receivers running free.

Look at the coverage that Cutler threw against yesterday. A lot of those balls had to thread the needle in order to get completions, and quite a few were dangerous throws. Meanwhile our DBs are usually somewhere around 3-4 yards away from the receiver when they make their catches. Its not all d- line...The receivers almost always get OPEN.

Anyway, yeah, a better D-line would help. We don't have one! Slowik apparently doesn't know how to fake it at all, or know how to disguise a blitz, so this is gonna continue, and we are going to lose games because of this defense, probably the first time the O fails to put up > 24 points.

hamrob
09-22-2008, 11:47 PM
Well, here is what the Team is saying about their Defense: (We've got entirely too much talent on defense! :-)


Broncos vs. Saints: Fourth Quarter NotesLook Added to Defensive Arsenal, Starting Strong

The Broncos showed their defensive flexibility during Sunday’s win against New Orleans. At times Denver mixed things up by implementing a 3-4 defensive scheme instead of the team’s traditional 4-3 formation.

The team’s four linebacker alignment allowed them to utilize different defensive groupings allowing Jamie Winborn to join Boss Bailey, D.J. Williams and Nate Webster as a member of the linebacking corps. With so much talent on the defense, Williams said switching between schemes lets more of that talent see action.


Photo: Eric Lars Bakke


“We broke that out because Jamie Winborn played a very good game against the Raiders and then Boss game back and Coach rewarded him,” Williams said. “We’ve got so much talent that we want to get everyone on the field, so we made up a package to try to get everybody out there. Me, Nate, Boss and Jamie. It’s hard to just have talent sitting on the sideline when you can have him out there. We used it a few times at the beginning of the game and it helped us.”

The different looks not only allow the Broncos to shuffle their personnel groupings on the field, but the contrasting formations also keep opposing quarterbacks on their toes not knowing what scheme to prepare for. In a 3-4 scheme the quarterback doesn’t know which players will be rushing as opposed to a 4-3 when typically the front four rush, limiting the coverage variations for the linebackers.

“It’s just a little different look and a little different scheme,” Head Coach Mike Shanahan said. “It was a change-up for us, and we have different game plans each week and we will throw in a little wrinkle here and there. We are not necessarily a straight 3-4 defense even though it appears to be. Everybody does things differently in passing situations and it was something that we worked on this week that I thought it looked pretty good.”

The ability to switch freely between defenses allows Denver to tailor its defensive schemes to the different styles of offenses the team goes against week to week. Winborn said he thinks the 3-4 can be particularly successful against pass heavy offenses.


Photo: Eric Lars Bakke

“You’re putting a lot of speed on the field, that’s one thing that (a 3-4) does for us,” he said. “We’ve got a lot of things we can do out of it — we can blitz, we can drop back into zones, we can mix it up with some rush zones — we can do it all, really, out of it. We’ve just got to keep working at it and keep fine-tuning it.”

Not one to give out his game plan, Shanahan declined to say how much the Broncos would utilize their alternate defensive scheme — if at all.

But if the 3-4 is called upon Winborn said he feels as though it can be another weapon to add to the team’s defensive repertoire and if it is in the mix the defense will be prepared.

“I hope so. I hope we can. It will be a mix-up. We’ll always have it available and whenever Coach wants to call on it, we’ll be ready.”

Off To a 3-0 Start

The Broncos are off to the team’s first 3-0 start since the 2003 season and they are one of the four teams in the NFL to start 2008 with three wins.

Last week Shanahan gave his players a rundown of all the 2-0 teams that have failed to make the playoffs and all and the 0-2 teams that have gone on to deep playoff runs and Super Bowl success, just to make sure his team wasn’t too caught up in its fast start.

So what are the playoff odds for a 3-0 team Coach?

“I know it’s better than 2-0,” Shanahan said. “I can’t tell you those percentages, but it’s sure nice to be 3-0. I think our guys are realistic: We have a ways to go. We’ve had a good start, we’ve made some strides, but we’re from where we want to be. “

Shanahan’s players seem to agree. Although they admit a 3-0 start is nice, the season is long from over and they feel as though there is plenty of room for improvement.

“We’re feeling good about ourselves and what we’re doing, but we have to understand it’s just three games and we’ve got 13 more,” Brandon Stokley said. “If you let up at all, you’re in trouble. So we’ve just got to keep going in keep getting better. We’ve got a lot of work to do, a lot of things we saw in the film that we need to correct, and that’s our job right now — just keep improving.”

Through the first three games the Broncos have put up the league’s most productive offense in terms of points scored and second most in yards per contest. But in comparison they have also surrendered the third most points and fourth most yards defensively.

“You are always happy to be 3-0,” Shanahan said. “You take a look at a game where a team gets 500 yards of offense then you usually get guys that are not playing as hard as you would like. But when you get guys playing at that level and that intensity, even though they did rack up that many yards, then you have a chance to get better.”

Though the Broncos have given up a lot of yards defensively, Shanahan said they have been able to come through in the area the team has focused on the most – rush defense. Last season Denver gave up the third most rushing yards in the NFL, through the first three games of 2008 the team is in the top half in total yards given up.

“You have to be able to stop the run to have a chance to have a good defense, and we did that holding (New Orleans) to 3.5 yards per rushing attempt,” Shanahan said. “That is where you start. We will get better with our pass defense as time goes on. We are doing a number of things that are new in comparison to a year ago. It just takes some time. If we have the effort that we had overall, offense, defense and special teams, good things will happen for our football team.”

-Jake Grilley, DenverBroncos.com

DenverBronkHoes
09-26-2008, 05:53 AM
this article is a joke like the defense

Lonestar
09-26-2008, 09:10 AM
we may have talent at all 3 levels, but that is at DT, OLB and CB. We still have issues w/ MLB, DE and S.

your correct her but the quality depth at all positions/levels on this team is very limited with the possible exception of TE, somewhat at WR

ON D past Robertson/Thomas/Williams/Champ there while these guys are starers one has to wonder if they would be on any other good to great teams. IMHO they would not be.

slim
09-26-2008, 09:45 AM
he also had 3 INTs...He's no Brees. We'll get some balls our way.

Clean it up, big guy. This isn't the lounge. :hi:

jlarsiii
09-26-2008, 10:53 AM
your correct her but the quality depth at all positions/levels on this team is very limited with the possible exception of TE, somewhat at WR

ON D past Robertson/Thomas/Williams/Champ there while these guys are starers one has to wonder if they would be on any other good to great teams. IMHO they would not be.


I agree JR. I don't buy the argument of talent on defense being masked by an ineffective scheme. Even in a crappy scheme if the players are "talented" enough they should still make plays. I have just not seen enough plays out of this defense to convince me that we have that much overall talent.

We have the rest of the season to see what the players can do on defense. I hope for the best, but fear the worst out of this group.

topscribe
09-26-2008, 12:46 PM
I agree JR. I don't buy the argument of talent on defense being masked by an ineffective scheme. Even in a crappy scheme if the players are "talented" enough they should still make plays. I have just not seen enough plays out of this defense to convince me that we have that much overall talent.

We have the rest of the season to see what the players can do on defense. I hope for the best, but fear the worst out of this group.

That would be nice, but if players are in a bad scheme that has them out of
position, or if they are in a good scheme of which they are unfamiliar and still
trying to gel, it is going to show.

The problem is, those players on the other side of the LOS are pros, too, and
they get paid, too. They will take advantage of any kind of crease or mistake.
When too many guys go the wrong way in a zone defense and leave a big
hole, that is not talent; that is miscommunication. In fact, Champ touched on
that.

But it does make me wonder if some guys are doing their homework . . .

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