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Denver Native (Carol)
01-25-2011, 11:01 AM
Plenty of quarterback lessons still await the Broncos' Tim Tebow. Such is life for a quarterback coming off his rookie year with so many expectations riding shotgun on his developmental curve.

And for Tebow, there was something to be taken from the the AFC and NFC championship games. One, a quarterback who can run his way out of trouble is a bonus. Just a bonus, however, not a way of doing business all of the time.


When Tebow improves his accuracy as a passer, which will come with improved footwork and a more consistent arm swing and release point, his potential to be an impact runner will improve too.

The next step Tebow needs to take to become the "darn good quarterback" desired by John Elway, the Broncos' executive vice president of football operations, will be continuing to transition his game from a running quarterback to a quarterback who can run.

There is plenty of proof in Tebow's peers who play the quarterback position in the biggest games.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17185904

honz
01-25-2011, 11:06 AM
If there is one athlete in this world that can turn himself into a great pocket passer, it's Michael Vick.

Cugel
01-25-2011, 12:27 PM
I thought the same thing while watching the Bears game. It's one thing to be a great runner, but you can't throw picks to a giant slow moving truck like BJ Raji and expect to do well in this league.

Tebow has a ton of things to work on to be consistent. He can't throw the kind of picks he did this year. But, he's a hard worker and should learn a lot this season. Hopefully.

underrated29
01-25-2011, 12:33 PM
I am still not sure why they think he is a run first QB. With the passing numbers he has put up, both in college and even in his few starts.

I think it is pretty obvious he is NOT a run first QB.

TXBRONC
01-25-2011, 12:43 PM
I am still not sure why they think he is a run first QB. With the passing numbers he has put up, both in college and even in his few starts.

I think it is pretty obvious he is NOT a run first QB.

Tebow like a lot of mobile quarterbacks will run first if a play break downs. With the yards rushing and the rushing touchdowns I think it's a fair statement to make.

underrated29
01-25-2011, 12:56 PM
Tebow like a lot of mobile quarterbacks will run first if a play break downs. With the yards rushing and the rushing touchdowns I think it's a fair statement to make.



agreed, but if the play breaks down, that is exactly what I want him to do. Run it and get some yards, then throwing it away.



How many ints did he throw? Anyone know? I can only think of 1.

TXBRONC
01-25-2011, 12:59 PM
agreed, but if the play breaks down, that is exactly what I want him to do. Run it and get some yards, then throwing it away.



How many ints did he throw? Anyone know? I can only think of 1.

Yes if he can't find another receiver then he should take off.

I Eat Staples
01-25-2011, 03:45 PM
agreed, but if the play breaks down, that is exactly what I want him to do. Run it and get some yards, then throwing it away.



How many ints did he throw? Anyone know? I can only think of 1.

To see the difference between a QB that runs and a running QB, look at the first half of Vick's season and then the last few games and playoff game. Vick looked like a good pocket passer that could run when needed in the first half, but at the end of the season he went back to his old ways and took off if the first read wasn't there. That didn't work out well for Philly.

OldschoolFreak
01-25-2011, 05:16 PM
Alright superlatives coming, you were warned. Read ahead if this sets off alarms in your head..

...I've thought for a while that Tebow is an extremely mercurial force. I've hated him as much as I've ever hated a football player (pre-draft) and now am behind him 100% to the point where frankly, I'm ok with my franchise of choice hooking its wagon to his horse and taking a gamble.

My sense is that Tebow ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT be a middle of the road NFL player. Sink or swim is 100% true with this guy. I honestly feel there's a good chance that Tebow will flame out quickly (as in within a year or two). If he doesn't (which seems more and more likely the more I read about his leadership, drive, and other intangibles), he's a future Hall of Famer. Book it.

Seriously, you heard it here first; Tebow will either be a bust or a hall of famer. Nothing in between.

Now, in terms of achieving the latter rather than the former scenario, the OP is right on. I believe this question of accuracy and learning to be a pass first QB using his legs as an asset rather than a runner who can throw is the single biggest factor in how high Tebow can go.

WARHORSE
01-25-2011, 07:11 PM
One only need look at the game of Ben Ruthlessbooger to understand that Tebow can easily win in this day and age of the NFL.


Tebow is not as big as Ben is, but hes faster, stronger and has greater leadership.


At this point, BRuth is a more polished passer, but its the ability to make clutch plays that sets him apart from those around him.


Take a look at BRuths stats in the last game and they arent impressive.

Take a look at his third down plays and you see the nature of the beast that is BRuthless.

I for one saw it first hand at the AFC Championship game in Denver in 2005.


We had Ben in 3rd and long situations so much, and each time, he converted.

It was frustrating and took the fight out of the crowd quickly.



This will be Tebows game if he will be successful. From the looks of it, this ability is already showing its face in his play the last three games.

On top of that, if he can learn consistent footwork, he can be even better.



The potential is through the roof. How much of that he attains remains to be seen..............but its real easy to see the diamond in his play, even in those quirky first few games.


Go Tebow.

JaxBroncoGirl
01-26-2011, 10:18 AM
We as Bronco fans have only been given a glimpse as to what Tebow is actually capable of. Tebow understands when the play breaks down and he must do any and everything to get to the 1st down or to the goal line. I say we sit back and enjoy what is going to happen because he is going to razzle and dazzle us.

All the experts tend to over analyze Tim and his abilities, we too do the same thing here, how can you analyze pure ability, football sense and his ability on the field to know what is going to happen and react. This kid has got it and will make us so proud. I say stop analyzing him and just watch the pure football instincts he has. Any good QB coach will sit back and learn from him. Will let him grow and guide him and not change him.

As far as he is a run first QB is nonsense, if he is at the 1st and goal and he can make it without throwing a possible INT, if anyway he can find a hole he will take it it. Don't you know he knows the defense is gunning for him. He is a playmaker. So we need to redefine him as such, not a run first or throw TIM IS A PLAYMAKER!

TXBRONC
01-26-2011, 10:41 AM
We as Bronco fans have only been given a glimpse as to what Tebow is actually capable of. Tebow understands when the play breaks down and he must do any and everything to get to the 1st down or to the goal line. I say we sit back and enjoy what is going to happen because he is going to razzle and dazzle us.

All the experts tend to over analyze Tim and his abilities, we too do the same thing here, how can you analyze pure ability, football sense and his ability on the field to know what is going to happen and react. This kid has got it and will make us so proud. I say stop analyzing him and just watch the pure football instincts he has. Any good QB coach will sit back and learn from him. Will let him grow and guide him and not change him.

As far as he is a run first QB is nonsense, if he is at the 1st and goal and he can make it without throwing a possible INT, if anyway he can find a hole he will take it it. Don't you know he knows the defense is gunning for him. He is a playmaker. So we need to redefine him as such, not a run first or throw TIM IS A PLAYMAKER!

Sorry Jax when Elway says Tim is good football player and it's our job to make him a good quarterback I trust he knows what he's talking about. So any good quarterback isn't going to be passive about the education of Tebow. They want help him refine his skills not impede him. He has a lot to work on.

Ravage!!!
01-26-2011, 12:05 PM
Tebow is a good athlete, but he's not a good passing/pocket QB right now. Not yet. He's actually further behind and more of a project than I expected/hoped to see in those games he started.

Right now, he's very much a run first QB. He sees open ground and he tucks the ball and runs instead of using that open field to find he open receiver.

I think the wording is right from Elway when he says that we need to develop him from a running QB, to a QB that can run.

TXBRONC
01-26-2011, 12:43 PM
Tebow is a good athlete, but he's not a good passing/pocket QB right now. Not yet. He's actually further behind and more of a project than I expected/hoped to see in those games he started.

Right now, he's very much a run first QB. He sees open ground and he tucks the ball and runs instead of using that open field to find he open receiver.

I think the wording is right from Elway when he says that we need to develop him from a running QB, to a QB that can run.

I don't know how far behind he is but I bet he would be further along if McDaniels hadn't of put him in "mothballs" for about a 10-12 week stretch.

vandammage13
01-26-2011, 12:44 PM
Tebow is a good athlete, but he's not a good passing/pocket QB right now. Not yet. He's actually further behind and more of a project than I expected/hoped to see in those games he started.

Right now, he's very much a run first QB. He sees open ground and he tucks the ball and runs instead of using that open field to find he open receiver.

I think the wording is right from Elway when he says that we need to develop him from a running QB, to a QB that can run.

Really? You thought he was further behind than what you expected? I don't know what your expectations are for a rookie QB making his first starts at the highest level of football, but considering he accounted for 7 TDs in 3 games of action and also had a 300 yard performance I would say he did pretty darn well for a rookie.

His completion % did leave a little to be desired, I'll admit, but comparing his first starts to other top QBs first starts in this league, he performed as well as could be expected.

underrated29
01-26-2011, 12:54 PM
Really? You he was further behind than what you expected? I don't know what your expectations are for a rookie QB making his first starts at the highest level of football, but considering he accounted for 7 TDs in 3 games of action I would say he did pretty darn well for a rookie.

His completion % did leave a little to be desired, I'll admit, but comparing his first starts to other top QBs first starts in this league, he performed as well as could be expected.



Id have to agree.

The main thing to me is the guy scored touchdowns. People can have their perfect pocket passing QBs, and completion percentages. I am going to take the guy that gets it done and get the points. I think a lot of people keep missing that point. Sure Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco throw pretty balls and stand strong in the pocket and look good. But Tebow freaking wins. Just like in hockey, a garbage goal is still a goal and it does not matter how it looked or got in the net, just that it did and you get the point for it.

Ravage!!!
01-26-2011, 12:59 PM
Really? You he was further behind than what you expected? I don't know what your expectations are for a rookie QB making his first starts at the highest level of football, but considering he accounted for 7 TDs in 3 games of action and also had a 300 yard performance I would say he did pretty darn well for a rookie.

His completion % did leave a little to be desired, I'll admit, but comparing his first starts to other top QBs first starts in this league, he performed as well as could be expected.

Thats cause I don't look at the stats, I look at the play. His play on the field showed much more of a project than I was hoping to see at that point.

I'm rooting all the way for Tebow to succeed, we need him to. But that doesn't mean I can't be honest and say that I see a BIG project and do worry about him ever developing into the pocket passer that you need in the NFL.

BroncoJoe
01-26-2011, 01:02 PM
I think the word "big project" is thrown around way too much. Nearly every rookie QB coming to the league is a project of some sort.

Ravage!!!
01-26-2011, 01:04 PM
I think the word "big project" is thrown around way too much. Nearly every rookie QB coming to the league is a project of some sort.

Very true. But just as you alluded to, some are bigger projects than others.

vandammage13
01-26-2011, 01:06 PM
Thats cause I don't look at the stats, I look at the play. His play on the field showed much more of a project than I was hoping to see at that point.

I'm rooting all the way for Tebow to succeed, we need him to. But that doesn't mean I can't be honest and say that I see a BIG project and do worry about him ever developing into the pocket passer that you need in the NFL.

Yes, he is a project if you are wanting him to look like Peyton Manning out there or some other prototypical QB, but that's not what Tim is and he never will be. Tim is more of a playmaker in the Roethlisberger/McNabb (in his prime) model.

What I saw on the field of play (not stats) was a guy who got the ball in the endzone as regularly as you could hope for a rookie making his first starts. It may not have looked the way you are used to seeing it, but the end result was the same as what you are looking for. The guy got the job done, he's just not ever going to do it the way you may be used to seeing it.

I saw less of a "project" out there in those last 3 games and more of a "playmaker" who's only going to get better with experience. Very excited about the future based on what I witnessed from him out there.

BroncoJoe
01-26-2011, 01:10 PM
I don't think he's necessarily a big project for the coaches, other than getting him in the best system to fully utilize his talents.

Also, people complain about his accuracy - no duh. When asked on the radio, Brandon Lloyd stated simply that the timing was not there. They had RARELY practiced together during the season and what a QB is supposed to do is time the throw to a point on the field and let the receiver go get it. Every pass, not just the long balls. Knowing exactly how deep a receiver is going on a crossing pattern, where they'll be on a sideline throw, etc. They're (the receiver) typically not at the location the ball is thrown to when released. Timing was a big problem with Tim's alleged accuracy.

BroncoWave
01-26-2011, 01:14 PM
Tebow like a lot of mobile quarterbacks will run first if a play break downs. With the yards rushing and the rushing touchdowns I think it's a fair statement to make.

Yeah, but how many of those were called runs though? It's not like he took off every time his first read was covered.

vandammage13
01-26-2011, 01:14 PM
I don't think he's necessarily a big project for the coaches, other than getting him in the best system to fully utilize his talents.

Also, people complain about his accuracy - no duh. When asked on the radio, Brandon Lloyd stated simply that the timing was not there. They had RARELY practiced together during the season and what a QB is supposed to do is time the throw to a point on the field and let the receiver go get it. Every pass, not just the long balls. Knowing exactly how deep a receiver is going on a crossing pattern, where they'll be on a sideline throw, etc. They're (the receiver) typically not at the location the ball is thrown to when released. Timing was a big problem with Tim's alleged accuracy.

Exactly....how do you expect a rookie that had next to no 1st team reps all season go out there and do any better than he did?

BroncoWave
01-26-2011, 01:15 PM
To see the difference between a QB that runs and a running QB, look at the first half of Vick's season and then the last few games and playoff game. Vick looked like a good pocket passer that could run when needed in the first half, but at the end of the season he went back to his old ways and took off if the first read wasn't there. That didn't work out well for Philly.

Were you watching the same Eagles games I was? Their pass protection was so god-awful the last few weeks of the season he didn't have time to look at any more than one, maybe 2 WRs. He was running for his life those last few games because he HAD to.

horsepig
01-26-2011, 03:09 PM
To a point, the same could said Of Tebow. For the mosr part, he did not have all day to stand around waiting for routes to open, not at all, really.

I thought he actually stood in there pretty well. I know what Rav means tho, there were some throws he made that just didn,t quite look up to snuff.

For a rook with no reps, he looked damn good to me though.

bcbronc
01-26-2011, 03:28 PM
All I know is Tebow better not turn into a loser like Flacco or Matt Ryan. It would really be the sux if that happened.
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Ravage!!!
01-26-2011, 06:21 PM
If he turns out to be as good as Matt Ryan, we will be very lucky.

PAINTERDAVE
01-26-2011, 07:57 PM
Yes, he is a project if you are wanting him to look like Peyton Manning out there or some other prototypical QB, but that's not what Tim is and he never will be. Tim is more of a playmaker in the Roethlisberger/McNabb (in his prime) model.

What I saw on the field of play (not stats) was a guy who got the ball in the endzone as regularly as you could hope for a rookie making his first starts. It may not have looked the way you are used to seeing it, but the end result was the same as what you are looking for. The guy got the job done, he's just not ever going to do it the way you may be used to seeing it.

I saw less of a "project" out there in those last 3 games and more of a "playmaker" who's only going to get better with experience. Very excited about the future based on what I witnessed from him out there.

Yes... exactly.

An earlier post said Tebow was mothballed and behind...
I agree in this way...

Tebow should have been put in after the bye.
The season was obviously going south...
we could have done NO WORSE with Tebow...
and then he would have had more experience.

Heck.. I daresay we would not be picking #2 right now had McD plugged Timmy in .

I also think we'd still be Coached by Josh right now as well.

Not playing Tim was a crucial mistake for McBonehead.

I Eat Staples
01-26-2011, 09:49 PM
Were you watching the same Eagles games I was? Their pass protection was so god-awful the last few weeks of the season he didn't have time to look at any more than one, maybe 2 WRs. He was running for his life those last few games because he HAD to.

I can't disagree, Philly's O-Line was beyond horrid down the stretch. But still, Vick was looking to run way too much, like when he was on the Falcons. The poor protection probably affected him mentally as well, but he should have been moving around in the pocket or rolling out to throw more. He was taking off with the intent of running it himself.

vandammage13
01-27-2011, 11:29 AM
Yes... exactly.

An earlier post said Tebow was mothballed and behind...
I agree in this way...

Tebow should have been put in after the bye.
The season was obviously going south...
we could have done NO WORSE with Tebow...
and then he would have had more experience.

Heck.. I daresay we would not be picking #2 right now had McD plugged Timmy in .

I also think we'd still be Coached by Josh right now as well.

Not playing Tim was a crucial mistake for McBonehead.

Yeah, I agree that McD would probably be here if he would have started Tebow after the bye week. It was apparent after the SF game in London that we were going nowhere as a team and that Orton was not a long-term answer at QB. Probably for the better that he didn't start Tebow though, as I can't say I'm sad to see McD gone.