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TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 12:29 PM
Offensive coordinator gets to call plays for Fox's Broncos
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 01/20/2011 01:00:00 AM MST

There was an exact moment when Mike McCoy arrived as an NFL play caller. It came immediately after the Broncos lost to the Oakland Raiders 39-23 last month in Tim Tebow's first NFL start.

The raw talent that is Tebow needed to be eased into the NFL game and McCoy approached a few high-risk turnover situations by being conservative.

No play caller becomes legit until he's second-guessed, and the media and fans had a field day doing just that. It took McCoy only two games to prove he was no fluke.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17142801

The play calling at the end of season was frustrating but honestly McCoy was right in how he handled Tebow those last three games. Maybe there were a few more things he could have done with Tebow but overall I think McCoy did the right thing.

ikillz0mbies
01-20-2011, 12:44 PM
I honestly see nothing wrong with the way he handled Tebow. He's bringing him along slowly because he is still raw. He has the entire off-season to work with him and create plays that suits him.

Northman
01-20-2011, 12:49 PM
Indeed, though from what i hear there were some times where he was overly conservative but im willing to give him a pass considering the situation.

TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 12:50 PM
I honestly see nothing wrong with the way he handled Tebow. He's bringing him along slowly because he is still raw. He has the entire off-season to work with him and create plays that suits him.

Definitely. Like I said there were probably some other they could have called that were just as safe but I don't him for being very careful with Tebow.

jhildebrand
01-20-2011, 12:57 PM
McCoy's hands were tied because Tebow hadn't taken any snaps during the season. I am sure that hindered McCoy to some degree. We also need to factor in the fact that it was still the McDaniels system and playbook.

I am willing to see what McCoy can do on his own under Fox. I think we will all be pleasantly surprised especially if this team finds a way to run the ball.

ikillz0mbies
01-20-2011, 12:59 PM
It's not like they had the opportunity to create a new playbook for him. I don't understand why some people are mad at the play calling at the end of the season. McDaniels got fired, who is the main play caller. The rest of the staff had to work with what they had. There was no way they can come up with anything new other than simple plays designed for Tebow.

Give McCoy a chance to create a playbook that he sees fit. Give him a chance to run them. And give him a chance to develop Tebow. It's ridiculous to judge anything at this point because nothing is set. Either I'll eat my crow or naysayers will eat theirs.

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 01:03 PM
Now everyone supports McCoy for his playcalling? Everyone thinks that running our QBoTF into a hungry defense over and over again with horrible QB draw plays was actually a GOOD thing for Tebow now? Running the same horrible off-tackle against the Raiders in our own endzone was ok...? Come on guys...

Come on... It was some of the worst playcalling the NFL has ever witnessed. He didn't look like an NFL playcaller until the 2nd half of the Houston game. Supporting your team is one thing, but ignoring an obvious and blatant deficiency in what McCoy did is another.

I'm all for giving him this year to prove he is an adequate OC, but to say that he did the right thing by calling some of the worst plays in NFL history really doesn't help justify it.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2011, 01:04 PM
It's not like they had the opportunity to create a new playbook for him. I don't understand why some people are mad at the play calling at the end of the season. McDaniels got fired, who is the main play caller. The rest of the staff had to work with what they had. There was no way they can come up with anything new other than simple plays designed for Tebow.

Give McCoy a chance to create a playbook that he sees fit. Give him a chance to run them. And give him a chance to develop Tebow. It's ridiculous to judge anything at this point because nothing is set. Either I'll eat my crow or naysayers will eat theirs.

I don't understand, are you saying Tim Tebow could not run the playbook already installed?

On the flip side, they better not be creating an offense or playbook specifically for Tebow. If so, I will continue to minus IQ points of this organization if that's the case.

SOCALORADO.
01-20-2011, 01:09 PM
Indeed, though from what i hear there were some times where he was overly conservative but im willing to give him a pass considering the situation.

Also, remember that SD and OAK are no push overs on defense.
HOU, OK i get being a little more aggressive, but i cant fault McCoy for being careful in meaningless games being a bit more cautious with Tebow, to allow for a learing curve for him.
We all know it only gets better from here for TT.
Remember when Rapistberger every week was 8-15 for 110 yards 1TD, 1 RUSH TD in a 17 -10 win?
Build the defense, get another O-linemen or 2, establish the run game again in DEN, and use the same guide that PIT and NYJ used with their new QBs.

Northman
01-20-2011, 01:12 PM
I'm all for giving him this year to prove he is an adequate OC,

Thats what most of us are saying.

TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 01:18 PM
Now everyone supports McCoy for his playcalling? Everyone thinks that running our QBoTF into a hungry defense over and over again with horrible QB draw plays was actually a GOOD thing for Tebow now? Running the same horrible off-tackle against the Raiders in our own endzone was ok...? Come on guys...

Come on... It was some of the worst playcalling the NFL has ever witnessed. He didn't look like an NFL playcaller until the 2nd half of the Houston game. Supporting your team is one thing, but ignoring an obvious and blatant deficiency in what McCoy did is another.

I'm all for giving him this year to prove he is an adequate OC, but to say that he did the right thing by calling some of the worst plays in NFL history really doesn't help justify it.

We'll just have to disagree there Stud. You and I and everyone else don't know exactly what plays we're available to them. If you're suggesting that they could have used the entire playbook I couldn't disgree with you more given the circumstances. If you're going to believe Elway that Tim hadn't gotten to work with the first unit for about a 12 week period then it probably then it makes sense what McCoy did with him.

I don't think it's fair to say that anyone is ignoring anything. It just a matter of looking at circumstances and saying there probably wasn't much more they could have done.

Finally running the quarterback draw is no more risky than throwing a pass and just side note in the second half of the games agaisnst the Texans the quarterback draws were one of the reasons we came back and won that game.

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 01:34 PM
We'll just have to disagree there Stud. You and I and everyone else don't know exactly what plays we're available to them. If you're suggesting that they could have used the entire playbook I couldn't disgree with you more given the circumstances. If you're going to believe Elway that Tim hadn't gotten to work with the first unit for about a 12 week period then it probably then it makes sense what McCoy did with him.

I don't think it's fair to say that anyone is ignoring anything. It just a matter of looking at circumstances and saying there probably wasn't much more they could have done.

Finally running the quarterback draw is no more risky than throwing a pass and just side note in the second half of the games agaisnst the Texans the quarterback draws were one of the reasons we came back and won that game.

TX, you and I BOTH know that there were more than 5 plays this offense could have run, we know they didn't spend the week practicing 5 plays, if they did that is complete idiocy on all parts. I'm not saying they should have used every obscure play they had, but the playcall was horrendous, absolutely terrible.

We shall see how he does after a full offseason. To be honest, I'm not that worried about it. I think he'll be fine.

ikillz0mbies
01-20-2011, 01:35 PM
I'm not saying that Tebow can't run the previous playbook. I'm just saying that he is still raw. Meaning that he still has to learn how to read coverages and defenses. Plus he didn't even have time to work with the first unit. I'm sure Tebow can run what ever play they call, but it's the OC that's calling the plays. It wasn't even his playbook.

No one has seen what McCoy can do as a REAL offensive coordinator. Let's just wait and see if he can be a competent coordinator. At least we now know that he is going to be creating the offensive playbook and doing the game planning every week. Let's see the results first when he is the one with the control instead of calling for his head.

BroncoWave
01-20-2011, 01:44 PM
If John Fox trusts him to run the offense, I trust him too, until I am given any reason to believe otherwise.

underrated29
01-20-2011, 01:54 PM
I still dont like it. We are talking about tim tebow here. Not ryan leaf.

Tebow does not need to be handled with kids gloves and conservative play calling. He is not the kind of person that gets his confidence shattered. I dont care if he tossed 4 pick 6s. Do you think that will phase him?

Of course not. It will only piss him off more. Remeber his college speach? He does not get down on himself. He gets revenge. He would be in the film room all night, and throwin passes into buckets he tapes on walls til 3 in the morning. We do not need to keep him in check. What we need to do is loosen the slack, cut him loose and see what he has got.


All i know is we can not/could not score many points in the first half, then when we let tim do his thing he lights up the score board and brings us wins or within a couple plays of winning.



I do not like the obvious qb keepers, the runs, runs and runs out of the same formation on first down. I do not like little check down passes or bubble screens that we kept and kept calling. I DID like that when we needed to move the chains we did, and that when we needed to score we did and that when inside the redzone TT always got us a TD 100% of the time..except for the texans game where he through the int.




I am not saying he is ready to go all out, but he is a different type of player and different type of person, who does not need to be cradled into the game. He is more a trial by fire and better off when we do not limit him.

Northman
01-20-2011, 02:05 PM
I still dont like it. We are talking about tim tebow here. Not ryan leaf.

Tebow does not need to be handled with kids gloves and conservative play calling. He is not the kind of person that gets his confidence shattered. I dont care if he tossed 4 pick 6s. Do you think that will phase him?

Of course not. It will only piss him off more. Remeber his college speach? He does not get down on himself. He gets revenge. He would be in the film room all night, and throwin passes into buckets he tapes on walls til 3 in the morning. We do not need to keep him in check. What we need to do is loosen the slack, cut him loose and see what he has got.


All i know is we can not/could not score many points in the first half, then when we let tim do his thing he lights up the score board and brings us wins or within a couple plays of winning.



I do not like the obvious qb keepers, the runs, runs and runs out of the same formation on first down. I do not like little check down passes or bubble screens that we kept and kept calling. I DID like that when we needed to move the chains we did, and that when we needed to score we did and that when inside the redzone TT always got us a TD 100% of the time..except for the texans game where he through the int.




I am not saying he is ready to go all out, but he is a different type of player and different type of person, who does not need to be cradled into the game. He is more a trial by fire and better off when we do not limit him.


I suspect you will see more this coming year. I wouldnt fret that much over the playcalling for 3 games homie.

jhildebrand
01-20-2011, 02:26 PM
Now everyone supports McCoy for his playcalling? Everyone thinks that running our QBoTF into a hungry defense over and over again with horrible QB draw plays was actually a GOOD thing for Tebow now? Running the same horrible off-tackle against the Raiders in our own endzone was ok...? Come on guys...

Come on... It was some of the worst playcalling the NFL has ever witnessed. He didn't look like an NFL playcaller until the 2nd half of the Houston game. Supporting your team is one thing, but ignoring an obvious and blatant deficiency in what McCoy did is another.

I'm all for giving him this year to prove he is an adequate OC, but to say that he did the right thing by calling some of the worst plays in NFL history really doesn't help justify it.

Well if you watched the Raiders game and were paying attention it was mentioned several times at the beginning of the game that the gameplan was scaled back for Tim Tebow-with Tim's input!

McCoy was smart enough to go straight to Tebow and allow him to assist in creating the gameplan and picking the plays that would be used against the Raiders. So why should McCoy take ALL of the heat for that gameplan? :confused:

Tebow wasn't named the starter until later in the week and that played into the situation.

At the end of the day they opened up the playbook against Houston and SD and Tebow looked as good as you could expect from a 3 game starter and McCoy's playcalling got better despite it being McDaniels' system and plays.

BigDaddyBronco
01-20-2011, 02:34 PM
The play calling at the end of season was frustrating but honestly McCoy was right in how he handled Tebow those last three games. Maybe there were a few more things he could have done with Tebow but overall I think McCoy did the right thing.

Honestly, Tebow/McCoy scored more points than Orton/McDaniels. I think with a good TC and a running game, we should be fine.

TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Honestly, Tebow/McCoy scored more points than Orton/McDaniels. I think with a good TC and a running game, we should be fine.

A young quarterback especially has three BFFs.

1.) A solid running game.

2.) A solid receiving tight end.

3.) A strong defense.

Give a young quarterback with talent those three things and he'll have a very good chance of succeeding.

Northman
01-20-2011, 02:49 PM
A young quarterback especially has three BFFs.

1.) A solid running game.

Matt Forte

2.) A solid receiving tight end.

Olsen

3.) A strong defense.

Bears defense

Give a young quarterback with talent those three things and he'll have a very good chance of succeeding.


Sounds really familiar doesnt it? Cant be coincidence.

TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 02:55 PM
Sounds really familiar doesnt it? Cant be coincidence.

Yep. :nod:

It is also basically formula that the Falcons, the Ravens, and the Steelers have used for their franchise quarterbacks. I guess you could also put the Chargers in that category as well.

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 02:59 PM
Sounds really familiar doesnt it? Cant be coincidence.
Put your cutlerboner away.....

...its scaring the pets.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

ikillz0mbies
01-20-2011, 03:25 PM
Sounds really familiar doesnt it? Cant be coincidence.

That is just to name one example. There are a few more and the Broncos are not one of them.

Slick
01-20-2011, 03:41 PM
What was McCoy supposed to do? He was a lame duck situation if there ever was one.

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 03:42 PM
Well if you watched the Raiders game and were paying attention it was mentioned several times at the beginning of the game that the gameplan was scaled back for Tim Tebow-with Tim's input!

McCoy was smart enough to go straight to Tebow and allow him to assist in creating the gameplan and picking the plays that would be used against the Raiders. So why should McCoy take ALL of the heat for that gameplan? :confused:

Tebow wasn't named the starter until later in the week and that played into the situation.

At the end of the day they opened up the playbook against Houston and SD and Tebow looked as good as you could expect from a 3 game starter and McCoy's playcalling got better despite it being McDaniels' system and plays.

Everyone KNOWS the playbook was scaled back lol... NO ONE is arguing that. It still doesn't justify the horrible playcall we all witnessed, it was embarrassingly bad playcall at every inopportune moments of the game. Of course it was scaled back, Tebow hadn't had any reps during the season thanks to McDumbass, but the playcalling was still very suspect.

As I said before, McCoy came around in the last 2 games. He absolutely SUCKED in the first 2 games he called, don't forget he called the Arizona game as well.

I'm not worried about McCoy, I think he showed enough improvement to have hope. I wanted to retain him if for nothing more than the fact he has worked with TT and knows what Tim can and can't do right now. I was glad to see McCoy come back as the OC, but I will simply not be a HOMER and justify his playcalling in the Arizona, Oakland, and 1st half of the Houston game, it was putrid, absolutely horrible.

Northman
01-20-2011, 03:46 PM
Put your cutlerboner away.....

...its scaring the pets.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums


Indeed, if i was banging this i would have a boner for sure.

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Kristin-Cavallari-Dating-Jay-Cutler-1.jpg

jhildebrand
01-20-2011, 04:19 PM
Everyone KNOWS the playbook was scaled back lol... NO ONE is arguing that. It still doesn't justify the horrible playcall we all witnessed, it was embarrassingly bad playcall at every inopportune moments of the game. Of course it was scaled back, Tebow hadn't had any reps during the season thanks to McDumbass, but the playcalling was still very suspect.

As I said before, McCoy came around in the last 2 games. He absolutely SUCKED in the first 2 games he called, don't forget he called the Arizona game as well.

I'm not worried about McCoy, I think he showed enough improvement to have hope. I wanted to retain him if for nothing more than the fact he has worked with TT and knows what Tim can and can't do right now. I was glad to see McCoy come back as the OC, but I will simply not be a HOMER and justify his playcalling in the Arizona, Oakland, and 1st half of the Houston game, it was putrid, absolutely horrible.

How do you know that the calls made, the ones you seem to have such a problem with, weren't made by McCoy at Tebow's request for the given situation? Nobody knows. Tebow could have had more to do with that than McCoy.

At the end of the day, if this team can run the ball effectively 25 times per game average, I don't care what plays they call. A good running game and Tebow and all the side discussions about him i.e. mechanics don't matter.

slim
01-20-2011, 04:21 PM
How do you know that the calls made, the ones you seem to have such a problem with, weren't made by McCoy at Tebow's request for the given situation? Nobody knows. Tebow could have had more to do with that than McCoy.

At the end of the day, if this team can run the ball effectively 25 times per game average, I don't care what plays they call. A good running game and Tebow and all the side discussions about him i.e. mechanics don't matter.

So your theory is the OC acquiesced to a rookie QB?

I hope to God that is not the case.

BigSarge87
01-20-2011, 05:15 PM
I got sick of the draws too, but in hind site, I think he made a good decision choosing to be so conservative.

It's not like winning was at the top of our priority list by that time, and had Tebow gone in and thrown a bunch of pick-6's to close out the season, his confidence would have definately been shaken. Not to mention how much that would have fueled all the doubters for the entire offseason.

I think the draws served their purpose. Get him some experience, let him learn for himself that running all the time isn't going to cut it. They opened it up a bit as the season closed out and Tebow took advantage of it. The conservative playcalling could very well be the reason we're all so excited about his potential for next season.

Great job by McCoy if you ask me.

arapaho2
01-20-2011, 05:25 PM
Everyone KNOWS the playbook was scaled back lol... NO ONE is arguing that. It still doesn't justify the horrible playcall we all witnessed, it was embarrassingly bad playcall at every inopportune moments of the game. Of course it was scaled back, Tebow hadn't had any reps during the season thanks to McDumbass, but the playcalling was still very suspect.

As I said before, McCoy came around in the last 2 games. He absolutely SUCKED in the first 2 games he called, don't forget he called the Arizona game as well.

I'm not worried about McCoy, I think he showed enough improvement to have hope. I wanted to retain him if for nothing more than the fact he has worked with TT and knows what Tim can and can't do right now. I was glad to see McCoy come back as the OC, but I will simply not be a HOMER and justify his playcalling in the Arizona, Oakland, and 1st half of the Houston game, it was putrid, absolutely horrible.

you admit tebow never got snaps in the season so his knowledge was extremely lacking

you admit mccoy didnt call the offense all season and used mcds for the last games

you admit both tebow and mccoy were thrust into it

you admit what we could do was scaled back because of the previous mentioned items

you admit his playcalling got better the further he got into it

and yet you still cant get over some calls in his first game with a rookie qb that never took meaningful snaps all season:confused:

sounds like your aurgueing for the sake of aurgueing

jhildebrand
01-20-2011, 05:43 PM
So your theory is the OC acquiesced to a rookie QB?

I hope to God that is not the case.

It isn't theory. Go back and watch the beginning of the Raiders game. Not only did the announcers mention it they had McCoy talking about it! It was plain as day that he wanted Tebow's input.

What is so wrong with that? :confused:

I like a coach who wants to see, in this situation, what his player is comfortable with and feels capable of.

I guess we could go back to what we had-a coach ramming his style down the players throat instead of fitting a system to his players.

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 05:45 PM
How do you know that the calls made, the ones you seem to have such a problem with, weren't made by McCoy at Tebow's request for the given situation? Nobody knows. Tebow could have had more to do with that than McCoy.

At the end of the day, if this team can run the ball effectively 25 times per game average, I don't care what plays they call. A good running game and Tebow and all the side discussions about him i.e. mechanics don't matter.

:laugh::laugh:

So Tebow was calling the bad plays??? :elefant:

OK... LOL

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 05:46 PM
you admit tebow never got snaps in the season so his knowledge was extremely lacking

you admit mccoy didnt call the offense all season and used mcds for the last games

you admit both tebow and mccoy were thrust into it

you admit what we could do was scaled back because of the previous mentioned items

you admit his playcalling got better the further he got into it

and yet you still cant get over some calls in his first game with a rookie qb that never took meaningful snaps all season:confused:

sounds like your aurgueing for the sake of aurgueing

No, not really. Go back and watch the games lol, the playcall was garbage. He got better, but it was really bad for a while. Rookie or not, bad playcalling is just bad playcalling.

jhildebrand
01-20-2011, 05:50 PM
:laugh::laugh:

So Tebow was calling the bad plays??? :elefant:

OK... LOL

Who's to say they were bad play calls. You aren't in the huddle. You weren't under center. You don't know what the call was. You don't know what the read was.

But go ahead and continue to pretend you do :lol:

Again there was a clip of McCoy asking Tebow what he wanted to do in a certain situation and McCoy confirming.

What happened down on the 2 yard line when Tebow proclaimed "Only one person carries the ball here!" A funny thing happened, Tebow carried it. I don't see why it seems so farfetched but hey, keep pretending like you have all the details. I am sure you think the 40 yard TD run against the Raiders was executed as it was called :rolleyes:

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 05:57 PM
Who's to say they were bad play calls. You aren't in the huddle. You weren't under center. You don't know what the call was. You don't know what the read was.

But go ahead and continue to pretend you do :lol:

Again there was a clip of McCoy asking Tebow what he wanted to do in a certain situation and McCoy confirming.

What happened down on the 2 yard line when Tebow proclaimed "Only one person carries the ball here!" A funny thing happened, Tebow carried it. I don't see why it seems so farfetched but hey, keep pretending like you have all the details. I am sure you think the 40 yard TD run against the Raiders was executed as it was called :rolleyes:

Well, if you have watched more than 2 games of football in your life it was pretty obvious that there were some HORRIBLE playcalls by McCoy in the first 2 games.

I don't get this... I really don't. Are you guys such HOMERS that you can't admit McCoy started off in suck fashion and then got better? I've already acknowledged he got better.

If McCoy had been hired by the Chiefs or Raiders, would you still defend his awful playcalling with such conviction? Anytime you watch an NFL game, and the playcall LOOKS Middle School, there are issues. When a typical fan can watch a game and CLEARLY see that the plays that were called were not good ones, did not work, and did not match the down/distance, there are major issues at the playcalling position.

LIKE I SAID, he got better. It was his first time to call plays, it was a less-than-practical situation he was placed in to begin with, but the fact remains his playcallign was comical at times. Hell, the announcers and the AP covering the games had jokes to say about it. It isn't just ME that feels this way, Woody and others saw it the same way.

I think McCoy will be fine with experience, I believe that. But to even claim that "Tebow called the bad plays" is just absurd and it goes to the limits of HOMERISM. But ALL of us Bronco fans need to be concerned with what we saw. I really hope McCoy works out, I hope that was just a result of the hand he was dealt being a poor one, I am trusting that Fox has all the faith in the world in McCoy and it is well-placed, but I am less than comfortable going by his short track-record. He did get better - we will see I suppose.

JaxBroncoGirl
01-20-2011, 07:34 PM
Alright guys and girls, this is what is going to happen in 2011. The OC and DC will be able to do their jobs. A great OC will tailor the offensive calling to Tebow's strengths and Not Hinder Tebow.

With this formula and a very very hungry, aggressive defense the Broncos will explode.

Regardless who is calling the plays, Tebow will adjust on the field to make it happen or exceed what the coach called into play. Tebow is and will be ready by next season, the coaches will have a hard time keeping up with him. Lets get ready because it will happen.

You can quote me on this. Go Broncos!!!

ikillz0mbies
01-20-2011, 07:41 PM
It's hard to fully evaluate McCoy's play calling based on 4 games from a playbook that wasn't his own. Now if his play calling is "comical" throughout this upcoming season (if there is one), then everyone here would call for his head. But to call for it before the football season is truly over, before the draft, training camp, OTA's, what ever, is ridiculous.

It's a wait-and-see approach.

I Eat Staples
01-20-2011, 09:05 PM
And we get stuck with ******* McCoy...great.

I don't even care about how he ended the season or what he did with Tebow. We could do so much better, if the OC is going to have a big role as indicated then I'd much rather someone with far better credentials than McCoy.

jhildebrand
01-20-2011, 09:07 PM
I don't get this... I really don't. Are you guys such HOMERS that you can't admit McCoy started off in suck fashion and then got better? I've already acknowledged he got better.

I don't think anybody is disputing that. I know I am not. What I am saying is there was one major compensating factor-Tim Tebow and the fact that McDaniels, for some asinine reason, didn't even get Tebow reps during the season. It wasn't conjecture or hypothesis that the gameplan was scaled way back for Tebow. It also wasn't a guess that Tebow hand picked plays HE wanted for a given situation.

I decried the playcalling ALL YEAR LONG! Just look at my history. One of my biggest gripes was McDaniels drafting Moreno at #12 proclaiming him to be a 3 down back and then commencing to give him 14 carries per game average. I bitched about playcalling the ENTIRE McDaniels regime.

Had McCoy called the games exactly the same way with Orton under C for the last 3 games then I would be pitching a FIT. But Orton didn't play and we dont know what McCoy would have done.

So for now, I am waiting to see what McCoy can do having a 3 full game head start with Tebow a chance to design and install his own offense. Like Zombie said, all of this is simply premature right now.

jhildebrand
01-20-2011, 09:08 PM
And we get stuck with ******* McCoy...great.

I don't even care about how he ended the season or what he did with Tebow. We could do so much better, if the OC is going to have a big role as indicated then I'd much rather someone with far better credentials than McCoy.

Like who? :confused:

Give me candidates that are actually available and would consider coming to Denver. We saw what Mularkey thought of Denver.

I Eat Staples
01-20-2011, 09:13 PM
Like who? :confused:

Give me candidates that are actually available and would consider coming to Denver. We saw what Mularkey thought of Denver.

I don't know, I haven't looked into it because its obviously not happening. I assume Dennison and Koetter would have only come here as HCs and not be willing to take the OC position.

But my opinion of McCoy is so low that I'd probably be okay with any hire other than him. He was a McDaniels yes man, has never shown anything to make us believe he can even be an OC.

And as I've said numerous times, if we have to create a game plan to compensate Tebow, then we obviously need a new QB.

ikillz0mbies
01-21-2011, 12:11 AM
I find it hard to believe that ANYONE is just better than McCoy at this point as an OC. Most of the "better options" were head coaching candidates, there's no way their previous team go to another team in a lateral move. Options weren't that great. This maybe McCoy's first OC gig, but he has one advantage that all other candidates have, and that's having familiarity with Tebow. Again, Tebow is a young, raw QB. The best thing for him is to have stability right now and he has that in McCoy.

horsepig
01-21-2011, 03:56 AM
Now everyone supports McCoy for his playcalling? Everyone thinks that running our QBoTF into a hungry defense over and over again with horrible QB draw plays was actually a GOOD thing for Tebow now? Running the same horrible off-tackle against the Raiders in our own endzone was ok...? Come on guys...

Come on... It was some of the worst playcalling the NFL has ever witnessed. He didn't look like an NFL playcaller until the 2nd half of the Houston game. Supporting your team is one thing, but ignoring an obvious and blatant deficiency in what McCoy did is another.

I'm all for giving him this year to prove he is an adequate OC, but to say that he did the right thing by calling some of the worst plays in NFL history really doesn't help justify it.

Chill out a bit there BS. When the chips were down and they FINALLY decided to let him play, they looked pretty damned good.

I still don't know what happenned in the first 3 quarters against SD. Were the recievers covered all the time? The ****** announcers sure as hell didn't tell us. Why was TT throwing the ball out of bounds all the time? I don't ****** know and nobody will tell me.

But, when it got real tight in the 4'th quarter TT started to make shit happen.
I, for one, really loved to see that. It looked to me like McCoy finally let the big dog off the ****** leash.

TXBRONC
01-21-2011, 07:35 AM
I find it hard to believe that ANYONE is just better than McCoy at this point as an OC. Most of the "better options" were head coaching candidates, there's no way their previous team go to another team in a lateral move. Options weren't that great. This maybe McCoy's first OC gig, but he has one advantage that all other candidates have, and that's having familiarity with Tebow. Again, Tebow is a young, raw QB. The best thing for him is to have stability right now and he has that in McCoy.

That in my book is a big plus.

BigSarge87
01-21-2011, 11:55 AM
I find it hilarious how some fans are so determined to come on here and piss in everyones Cheerios. "OMG McCoy! We'll never win another game!" Seriously?

Yeah, I'm probably a homer, but I follow football and the Broncos because I want to get enjoyment from it. That's why I TRY to stay optimistic about it. If I need something to get seriously pissed over, I'll go click on the politics section and read about immigration issues.

I know people are just giving their opinion, and that's great, the different opinions on here make this site interesting to follow, but are you so into yourself that you really think that you know more about why a play was or wasn't called than the guys who called it? If your complaining about it, your probably trying to look smarter than you really are. If you really knew that much about football, then you would probably be working on a team somewhere, right? There's a pretty good reason they are getting paid to make those decisions and your bloggin on a forum. Try to maintain some perspective!

This was not geared toward anyone in particular. Please don't take offense. I'm not attacking anyone on purpose. It just gets old sometimes. I need a cookie.

TXBRONC
01-21-2011, 12:00 PM
I find it hilarious how some fans are so determined to come on here and piss in everyones Cheerios. "OMG McCoy! We'll never win another game!" Seriously?

Yeah, I'm probably a homer, but I follow football and the Broncos because I want to get enjoyment from it. That's why I TRY to stay optimistic about it. If I need something to get seriously pissed over, I'll go click on the politics section and read about immigration issues.

I know people are just giving their opinion, and that's great, the different opinions on here make this site interesting to follow, but are you so into yourself that you really think that you know more about why a play was or wasn't called than the guys who called it? If your complaining about it, your probably trying to look smarter than you really are. If you really knew that much about football, then you would probably be working on a team somewhere, right? There's a pretty good reason they are getting paid to make those decisions and your bloggin on a forum. Try to maintain some perspective!

This was not geared toward anyone in particular. Please don't take offense. I'm not attacking anyone on purpose. It just gets old sometimes. I need a cookie.

I wouldn't mind a cookie right now. Do you have one? :D

I Eat Staples
01-21-2011, 03:15 PM
I find it hilarious how some fans are so determined to come on here and piss in everyones Cheerios. "OMG McCoy! We'll never win another game!" Seriously?

Yeah, I'm probably a homer, but I follow football and the Broncos because I want to get enjoyment from it. That's why I TRY to stay optimistic about it. If I need something to get seriously pissed over, I'll go click on the politics section and read about immigration issues.

I know people are just giving their opinion, and that's great, the different opinions on here make this site interesting to follow, but are you so into yourself that you really think that you know more about why a play was or wasn't called than the guys who called it? If your complaining about it, your probably trying to look smarter than you really are. If you really knew that much about football, then you would probably be working on a team somewhere, right? There's a pretty good reason they are getting paid to make those decisions and your bloggin on a forum. Try to maintain some perspective!

This was not geared toward anyone in particular. Please don't take offense. I'm not attacking anyone on purpose. It just gets old sometimes. I need a cookie.

There's a lot of fans that could have made better decisions than a lot of coaches. Just because someone is getting payed a lot of money doesn't mean they're always right and we as fans are always wrong.

Attitudes like that are what made people look stupid by supporting McDumbass. :coffee:

The Glue Factory
01-21-2011, 03:21 PM
There's a lot of fans that could have made better decisions than a lot of coaches. Just because someone is getting payed a lot of money doesn't mean they're always right and we as fans are always wrong.

Attitudes like that are what made people look stupid by supporting McDumbass. :coffee:

:lol: :laugh: :lol:

Lots of fans doing a better job than lots of coaches? Right. Please re-read what you typed and tell me you were on some powerful pain medication when you posted this.

BroncoStud
01-21-2011, 03:40 PM
Chill out a bit there BS. When the chips were down and they FINALLY decided to let him play, they looked pretty damned good.

I still don't know what happenned in the first 3 quarters against SD. Were the recievers covered all the time? The ****** announcers sure as hell didn't tell us. Why was TT throwing the ball out of bounds all the time? I don't ****** know and nobody will tell me.

But, when it got real tight in the 4'th quarter TT started to make shit happen.
I, for one, really loved to see that. It looked to me like McCoy finally let the big dog off the ****** leash.

Agree with all of this.

I Eat Staples
01-21-2011, 03:41 PM
:lol: :laugh: :lol:

Lots of fans doing a better job than lots of coaches? Right. Please re-read what you typed and tell me you were on some powerful pain medication when you posted this.

Funny, plenty of fans saw just how stupid McDaniels' moves were and other fans swore that McDaniels knew more because he's a coach.

McDaniels sure proved us fans wrong, huh?

BigSarge87
01-21-2011, 03:43 PM
There's a lot of fans that could have made better decisions than a lot of coaches. Just because someone is getting payed a lot of money doesn't mean they're always right and we as fans are always wrong.

Attitudes like that are what made people look stupid by supporting McDumbass. :coffee:

EXACTLY the mentality I was talking about. Seriously? Are you seriously saying that there are fans on this forum that could jump right in and make better decisions on the field than a coach who's entire life spent working in that capacity? Not to mention that they didn't get to that level without being pretty damn good at it.

Puff...puff...give man, puff...puff...give.

BroncoStud
01-21-2011, 03:43 PM
I don't see anyone "pissing in Cheerios" here... It would be foolish to place 100% faith in McCoy based on questionable playcalling last season, even in a dumbed-down playbook.

Either way, he got a LOT better in the last 2 games and he knows Tebow already, so it was a pretty safe choice to go with him. Hopefully we return to a more ground-based attack and his job will be easier.

I will give McDumbass credit, his system and his playcalls made a bum like Kyle Orton look like a pretty decent QB, that couldn't have been easy to accomplish.

I'm fine with McCoy, but there were issues with his playcall last year. I'm cautiously optimistic.

BigSarge87
01-21-2011, 03:47 PM
Funny, plenty of fans saw just how stupid McDaniels' moves were and other fans swore that McDaniels knew more because he's a coach.

McDaniels sure proved us fans wrong, huh?

Here we go with yet another 'I told you so' rant...

Yeah, damn, some of you guys should be on the payroll your so smart.

BigSarge87
01-21-2011, 03:53 PM
Just because we have the luxury of sitting in our comfy chairs and saying "That was dumb, that was dumb, that was dumb" doesn't mean we could do a better job.

For the love of God please don't turn this into a McD thread.

ikillz0mbies
01-21-2011, 04:06 PM
Now we're at that point where the fans are smarter than the coaches? Is there a reason why these "smarter-than-coaches" fans are not running the front office instead of going on a message board saying "even I would've made a better move" or "I wouldn't have traded so and so." Please.

I Eat Staples
01-21-2011, 04:31 PM
Lol at the above posts. If the highly paid man in authority says something he's right because he's on a payroll. Please.

You have the ability to have your own opinion, please try to use it sometime.

TXBRONC
01-21-2011, 04:41 PM
Now we're at that point where the fans are smarter than the coaches? Is there a reason why these "smarter-than-coaches" fans are not running the front office instead of going on a message board saying "even I would've made a better move" or "I wouldn't have traded so and so." Please.

I tried but Bowlen hates Lutherans.

horsepig
01-21-2011, 08:47 PM
Methodists too, lol.

jhildebrand
01-21-2011, 09:16 PM
I tried but Bowlen hates Lutherans.


Methodists too, lol.

Say what? :confused:


Now I'm lost (nothing new :D)

jhildebrand
01-21-2011, 09:22 PM
I don't know, I haven't looked into it because its obviously not happening. I assume Dennison and Koetter would have only come here as HCs and not be willing to take the OC position.

But my opinion of McCoy is so low that I'd probably be okay with any hire other than him. He was a McDaniels yes man, has never shown anything to make us believe he can even be an OC.

And as I've said numerous times, if we have to create a game plan to compensate Tebow, then we obviously need a new QB.

So coming from a guy who is such an ardent Orton supporter that you had him in your sig up until a week ago, McCoy is useless and played absolutely no role in the year Orton had? :confused:

Tell me you don't believe Orton was 100% the result of Josh McDaniels.

I Eat Staples
01-21-2011, 10:12 PM
So coming from a guy who is such an ardent Orton supporter that you had him in your sig up until a week ago, McCoy is useless and played absolutely no role in the year Orton had? :confused:

Tell me you don't believe Orton was 100% the result of Josh McDaniels.

Not 100%, but McDaniels' system does inflate a QB's stats.

But no, McCoy had nothing to do with it.

The Glue Factory
01-23-2011, 08:51 PM
Lol at the above posts. If the highly paid man in authority says something he's right because he's on a payroll. Please.

You have the ability to have your own opinion, please try to use it sometime.

And nobody is saying that. There's more than two positions here. There's just a number of people saying part of your position is ludicrous! That would be the part where fans are smarter than coaches. Not one person said that the coach has to be right. You need to stop putting words in other people's mouths.

BroncoStud
01-23-2011, 08:52 PM
The fans are idiots but the coaches know all...

Yeah, Josh McDaniels was SURE smarter than most of us would have been. :rolleyes:

I Eat Staples
01-23-2011, 10:37 PM
And nobody is saying that. There's more than two positions here. There's just a number of people saying part of your position is ludicrous! That would be the part where fans are smarter than coaches. Not one person said that the coach has to be right. You need to stop putting words in other people's mouths.

You need to stop putting words in my mouth. I said there are fans that could have done a better job than some coaches. That's true, there's plenty of people on these boards that I'm certain could have done a better job than McDaniels.

Of course he is an extreme example, possibly the worst coach in NFL history.

Bosco
01-23-2011, 10:41 PM
McCoy's play calling was some of the most inept I've ever seen in Denver, but I'll give the guy another chance in 2011. Let's see if he surprises me.

BroncoStud
01-23-2011, 11:01 PM
McCoy's play calling was some of the most inept I've ever seen in Denver, but I'll give the guy another chance in 2011. Let's see if he surprises me.

This ^

Lonestar
01-23-2011, 11:11 PM
McCoy's play calling was some of the most inept I've ever seen in Denver, but I'll give the guy another chance in 2011. Let's see if he surprises me.

just have to think he was thrown into the fight with out proper warm UP..

CALLING PLAYS FOR TEBOW and Orton are two different animals.. considering that Tebow got no reps in practice..

I know in that first game there was mass confusion going on causing a couple delay calls IIRC after that it seemed a bit smoother..
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BroncoStud
01-24-2011, 01:22 AM
just have to think he was thrown into the fight with out proper warm UP..

CALLING PLAYS FOR TEBOW and Orton are two different animals.. considering that Tebow got no reps in practice..

I know in that first game there was mass confusion going on causing a couple delay calls IIRC after that it seemed a bit smoother..
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Excuses are like butt-holes, everyone's got one and they all stink.

The Glue Factory
01-24-2011, 09:39 AM
You need to stop putting words in my mouth. I said there are fans that could have done a better job than some coaches. That's true, there's plenty of people on these boards that I'm certain could have done a better job than McDaniels.

Of course he is an extreme example, possibly the worst coach in NFL history.

I haven't put any words in your mouth. Just to quote what you said (emphasis mine) that sparked this part of the debate...


There's a lot of fans that could have made better decisions than a lot of coaches. Just because someone is getting payed a lot of money doesn't mean they're always right and we as fans are always wrong.


So now you change your tune to fans (some, a few, or what?) and some coaches? What is it Staples? A lot or some? I took exception to your claim that there were lots of fans that could out-coach a lot of coaches. Just admit you screwed up with your original statement.

I don't argue with the point that McD was a horrible coach and made many mistakes but I'll continue to argue that you put even the most intelligent fan in his position and you'll see so much fail that McD looks like Vince Lombardi

The Glue Factory
01-24-2011, 10:21 AM
Excuses are like butt-holes, everyone's got one and they all stink.

There's excuses and there's reality. I take it you've never been thrown into the middle of things to sink or swim with no preparation. I'm glad you aren't in any kind of leadership position in the Broncos org.

I Eat Staples
01-24-2011, 02:16 PM
I haven't put any words in your mouth. Just to quote what you said (emphasis mine) that sparked this part of the debate...




So now you change your tune to fans (some, a few, or what?) and some coaches? What is it Staples? A lot or some? I took exception to your claim that there were lots of fans that could out-coach a lot of coaches. Just admit you screwed up with your original statement.

I don't argue with the point that McD was a horrible coach and made many mistakes but I'll continue to argue that you put even the most intelligent fan in his position and you'll see so much fail that McD looks like Vince Lombardi

A lot was an exaggeration for the coaches. I'll say there are a lot of fans that could have done a better job than some coaches.

I think if you put even a fan of slightly above average intelligence in McD's position he would have done a better job. I assure you at least 9 out of 10 fans wouldn't have traded Cutler. Some people don't understand the monumental stupidity that went into McDaniels' decisions.

BigDaddyBronco
01-24-2011, 02:27 PM
A lot was an exaggeration for the coaches. I'll say there are a lot of fans that could have done a better job than some coaches.

I think if you put even a fan of slightly above average intelligence in McD's position he would have done a better job. I assure you at least 9 out of 10 fans wouldn't have traded Cutler. Some people don't understand the monumental stupidity that went into McDaniels' decisions.
I bet if you met Cutler, you would have wanted to trade him too.

I Eat Staples
01-24-2011, 02:54 PM
I bet if you met Cutler, you would have wanted to trade him too.

I don't care what he's like as a person. We didn't benefit from trading him.

The Glue Factory
01-24-2011, 06:43 PM
A lot was an exaggeration for the coaches. I'll say there are a lot of fans that could have done a better job than some coaches.

I think if you put even a fan of slightly above average intelligence in McD's position he would have done a better job. I assure you at least 9 out of 10 fans wouldn't have traded Cutler. Some people don't understand the monumental stupidity that went into McDaniels' decisions.

And I still contend that any FAN with well above average intelligence will not do as well as McD in the position by making even bigger blunders than McD made.

There's enough info out there regarding Cutler's trade that it is dubious whether your statement would play out the way you portray it. Assuming Cutler instantly didn't like the HC because Jeremy Bates was fodder would make it hard for anyone to manage to keep Cutler on the team. There's still debate as to whether Cutler is going to turn into something close to Manning or go the way of Jeff George.

I Eat Staples
01-24-2011, 07:37 PM
And I still contend that any FAN with well above average intelligence will not do as well as McD in the position by making even bigger blunders than McD made.

There's enough info out there regarding Cutler's trade that it is dubious whether your statement would play out the way you portray it. Assuming Cutler instantly didn't like the HC because Jeremy Bates was fodder would make it hard for anyone to manage to keep Cutler on the team. There's still debate as to whether Cutler is going to turn into something close to Manning or go the way of Jeff George.

Many fans said how stupid McD's moves were as soon as he made them, so they obviously wouldn't have done that. No fan would trade a 1st for a 2nd. That just doesn't happen and everyone knows it. It wasn't just the Cutler disaster.

And chances are he won't be Manning or Jeff George. He'll be a borderline top-10 QB for most of his career probably.

The Glue Factory
01-24-2011, 08:47 PM
Many fans said how stupid McD's moves were as soon as he made them, so they obviously wouldn't have done that. No fan would trade a 1st for a 2nd. That just doesn't happen and everyone knows it. It wasn't just the Cutler disaster.

And chances are he won't be Manning or Jeff George. He'll be a borderline top-10 QB for most of his career probably.

I'll grant that a very few of McD's mistakes would have been repeated (probably the one that you just named.) But most fans would make horrible choices in drafting and playcalling and, and, and many other facets of the team. Don't go using a single case to base your entire argument on. The plain simple fact is that nearly all fans of the game would screw up a team as fast or faster than McD did the Broncos if given the opportunity and power McD had.