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Denver Native (Carol)
01-19-2011, 06:32 PM
I posted this in Broncos Talk, as the article contains things in regards to the Broncos:

Different things from the article:


"I love coaching football, I've missed it for the last six weeks and I'm eager to get started," McDaniels said from Denver, during a conference call.

McDaniels deflected most of the questions directed at his tumultuous 22-month tenure in Denver, including several about the Spygate video incident. He said he discussed it "briefly" with Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo in the interview.

Denver executives have repeatedly said McDaniels made the decisions that put the team in the bad spot it finds itself now and and executive vice president of football operations John Elway termed it a "one-man show."

Asked Wednesday about what he learned from his Denver experience, McDaniels hinted the team's expectations for the job he eventually had were not spelled out from the start.

"It's really important to have a solid direction, a solid structure and really have all the people pulling the same direction and that's what's really so appealing to me about St. Louis," McDaniels said. "That the direction is clear, what's expected of myself coming here initially was laid out clearly for me and I'm sure that's the way the rest of the organization is running too so it was very impressive for me to see that.

"Coming from being a head coach and seeing how clear that was in St. Louis that made this a pretty simple choice for me and I can't wait to get started."


http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_17139401?source=rss - full article

JaxBroncoGirl
01-19-2011, 06:37 PM
So McDummy has taken his one man show on the road. I still think he did not learn about his ego and his people skills. I would think that is going to follow him for a while. As far as Hoodie Jr. hopefully the new team will make him wear team colors dressing a bit more the part of a coach.

silkamilkamonico
01-19-2011, 06:43 PM
So McDummy has taken his one man show on the road. I still think he did not learn about his ego and his people skills. I would think that is going to follow him for a while. As far as Hoodie Jr. hopefully the new team will make him wear team colors dressing a bit more the part of a coach.

Meanwhile, we're still stuck with all these incompetent front office people, questions galore from the QB position to the defense, and an unstable staff.

Ravage!!!
01-19-2011, 06:46 PM
its amazing how one man can destroy a franchise in such a short time span.

silkamilkamonico
01-19-2011, 06:49 PM
I think it was the tipping point. This franchise has been on a stepping stone downhill since Elway retired, but yea, he really put it over the edge.

arapaho2
01-19-2011, 06:49 PM
wait!!! so the direction of the team was not clear..expectaions were not spelled out and supposedly we didnt have all the people pulling in the same direction


ummm the expectations was set...we want success, we expected to have him fix the 29th ranked defense and leave the 2nd ranked offense alone...

he spelled it out when he said he would better the team

as for not pulling together...where? bowlen and ellis supported him and let him make crucial personal mistakes from day one...he had total control

if anyone wasnt pulling together with mcd it was the staff wishing to keep talent on the team instead of tradeing it


he is a dick and i hope he fails miserably

BroncoStud
01-19-2011, 06:52 PM
Can't stand the fact that he is getting off scott-free in this deal, actually getting paid a LOT of money by the Broncos to destroy the team, while getting to coach agains so quickly, and on top of that gets to coach a great young QB in Bradford.

Meanwhile, back in Denver, his partner-in-crime Brian Xanders probably got a payraise to take on more GM duties after he at the very LEAST say by while McDumbass destroyed us from within. The more I think about it the more amazed I am Xanders was allowed to stay on. He should be held just as accountable as Josh was, if for nothing more than not having the balls to stand up to him and do what was right.

Screw McDaniels, screw Xanders.

silkamilkamonico
01-19-2011, 06:52 PM
as for not pulling together...where? bowlen and ellis supported him and let him make crucial personal mistakes from day one...he had total control


Isn't that terrible. We finally did get rid of the dick. Now if we can just do something with Bowlen and Ellis we might finally be on the right track again.

bcbronc
01-19-2011, 07:07 PM
I'd like to thank Josh for finally breaking the eggs that needed to be broken to get this franchise out of it's decade-long spiral of mediocracy.

Now we'll see if Elway can turn these broken eggs into an omelet (or quiche, I really like quiche).

:turns page on McDaniels era:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

scott.475
01-19-2011, 07:19 PM
I do hope he fails at his new job, that ego of his needs to be shattered so he can pick up the pieces and rebuild himself into a guy that function without ostracizing everyone around him.

The more I think about it, the more I think his new direction he is talking about is "Don't break our team like you did that last one kid!"

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 07:23 PM
Can't stand the fact that he is getting off scott-free in this deal, actually getting paid a LOT of money by the Broncos to destroy the team, while getting to coach agains so quickly, and on top of that gets to coach a great young QB in Bradford.

Meanwhile, back in Denver, his partner-in-crime Brian Xanders probably got a payraise to take on more GM duties after he at the very LEAST say by while McDumbass destroyed us from within. The more I think about it the more amazed I am Xanders was allowed to stay on. He should be held just as accountable as Josh was, if for nothing more than not having the balls to stand up to him and do what was right.

Screw McDaniels, screw Xanders.

If Paige is right, when the Broncos made their settlement it was one that was very favorable to the organization.

What's this b.s. that everyone wasn't pulling the same direction? He was allowed to do everything he wanted to do. He got rid of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis and was allowed to turnover 80 plus percent of the roster and he got to choose the players he wanted in the draft how is that not pulling in the same direction?

hotcarl
01-19-2011, 07:29 PM
its amazing how one man can destroy a franchise in such a short time span.

it was so bad he is either a totally incompetent or he did it on purpose, im leaning towards the former, but either way it says alot about our FO

make me believe again johnny :elefant:

scott.475
01-19-2011, 07:39 PM
IF you are a good leader of people, you can in fact get everyone pulling in the same direction. If you keep promising the moon but keep delivering blocks of cheese, people will loose faith and confidence in you and your message, and when that happens people start trying to figure out their own way to get things done, then you don't have everyone pulling the same direction.

gnomeflinger
01-19-2011, 07:45 PM
Blah blah blah blah..

(throwing all Denver Broncos staff under the bus)

Blah blah blah, it's not my fault, they didn't tell me initiative was part of the plan

Oh go cry me a river, Joshy, and good luck getting people to respect you.

:salute:

scott.475
01-19-2011, 07:47 PM
Hiya gnomey!

gnomeflinger
01-19-2011, 07:50 PM
Hiya gnomey!

Hi to you too, Scott! :hi:

I Eat Staples
01-19-2011, 07:55 PM
Mods please move this to the other NFL teams forum as soon as possible, I never want to see McDaniels associated with the Broncos again.

hotcarl
01-19-2011, 07:57 PM
Mods please move this to the other NFL teams forum as soon as possible, I never want to see McDaniels associated with the Broncos again.

seconded.

also please make me a mod. tia

:cool:

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 07:59 PM
Blah blah blah blah..

(throwing all Denver Broncos staff under the bus)

Blah blah blah, it's not my fault, they didn't tell me initiative was part of the plan

Oh go cry me a river, Joshy, and good luck getting people to respect you.

:salute:

That's the way it sounds. It was everyone elses fault that things didn't work out. But of course this is the same guy that crucified his entire staff in front of Bowlen after the home loss to the Raiders. So I guess it's not all that surprising that he would say it was everyone elses fault that he failed as head coach.

Lonestar
01-19-2011, 08:12 PM
Got through about 4 posts before I was reminded why I took a vacation from here.

See y'all in a few months to see if the hate has deminished or not

nflfan
01-19-2011, 08:22 PM
imo, this has always been McDaniels' blind spot ... he can never admit to making mistakes. In his mind, it's always everyone else's fault. He was arrogant and immature 2 years ago, and by his excuses in this article, nothing's changed.

Bosco
01-19-2011, 08:30 PM
What's this b.s. that everyone wasn't pulling the same direction? He was allowed to do everything he wanted to do. He got rid of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis and was allowed to turnover 80 plus percent of the roster and he got to choose the players he wanted in the draft how is that not pulling in the same direction?

I think it's pretty clear he's referencing the fact that he had no real GM, even after Bowlen said they would have one after firing Shanahan.

In this case, I'd think you of all people would be in strong agreement with McDaniels. You were extremely vocal (and rightfully so) that our GM was nothing but a glorified bean counter and our young first time head coach got saddled with what is effectively two 80 hour a week jobs.

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 08:41 PM
I think it's pretty clear he's referencing the fact that he had no real GM, even after Bowlen said they would have one after firing Shanahan.

In this case, I'd think you of all people would be in strong agreement with McDaniels. You were extremely vocal (and rightfully so) that our GM was nothing but a glorified bean counter and our young first time head coach got saddled with what is effectively two 80 hour a week jobs.

I don't think he's clearly referenceing that all. I think it's painfully clear he blames everyone for his own failures. There are plenty of instances that show he's not the kind of guy who takes responsibility for his own mistakes.

You've got the wrong person I never called Xanders a gloried bean counter. If McDaniels really didn't want kind of responsibility he could said no. He chose to micromange every aspect of the team he wasn't force too.

Bosco
01-19-2011, 08:49 PM
If McDaniels really didn't want kind of responsibility he could said no. He chose to micromange every aspect of the team he wasn't force too. That's not really true at all. He stepped into a situation where Jim Goodman was the de facto GM and Xanders and Jeff Goodman worked as assistant GM's. Within a month of getting hired 2/3 of that power structure was gone after Jeff Goodman and Xanders got into a power struggle.

That move completely changed the dynamic of the front office and left Josh doing a job he wasn't hired to do.

Juriga72
01-19-2011, 09:06 PM
That's not really true at all. He stepped into a situation where Jim Goodman was the de facto GM and Xanders and Jeff Goodman worked as assistant GM's. Within a month of getting hired 2/3 of that power structure was gone after Jeff Goodman and Xanders got into a power struggle.

That move completely changed the dynamic of the front office and left Josh doing a job he wasn't hired to do.

He was doing a job that he wasn't qualified to do..... Which is funny... because he is not even qualified to be a head coach.

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 09:10 PM
That's not really true at all. He stepped into a situation where Jim Goodman was the de facto GM and Xanders and Jeff Goodman worked as assistant GM's. Within a month of getting hired 2/3 of that power structure was gone after Jeff Goodman and Xanders got into a power struggle.

That move completely changed the dynamic of the front office and left Josh doing a job he wasn't hired to do.

Yes it is really true he could said no and he didn't he wanted that kind of stroke.

Nevertheless I think you're jumping to conclusions with nothing to hang your hat on. McDaniels didn't say he had to many jobs to do. He said not everyone was pulling in the same direction. That means he wanted to go in one direction and everyone else wanted to go in a different direction. I have never seen that phrase used as code for I had to much work to do.

The bottom line is McDaniels thinks everyone else is to blame for everything went wrong and there are plenty of instances that show he's the kind of guy who takes responsibility for his own screw ups.

Bosco
01-19-2011, 09:15 PM
Yes it is really true he could said no and he didn't he wanted that kind of stroke. What was he going to do about it? Demand that Bowlen not fire the Goodmans? Demand they hire another GM?

When that happened, Josh had exactly two options. Try to do both jobs himself, or resign.

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 09:23 PM
What was he going to do about it? Demand that Bowlen not fire the Goodmans? Demand they hire another GM?

When that happened, Josh had exactly two options. Try to do both jobs himself, or resign.

Why would he demand Bowlen not fire the Goodmans when he wanted that in the first place?

Wrong those are not only options McDaniels had. He could have manned up and said I can't do all the these jobs it to much for one man.

Again this is getting off in the weeds. The real issue is that McDaniels blames everyone else for his own failures as a head coach.

Bosco
01-19-2011, 09:31 PM
Why would he demand Bowlen not fire the Goodmans when he wanted that in the first place? Xanders, not McDaniels was the one who had the power struggle with Jeff Goodman. Xanders was Joe's other "golden boy" so he pulled the strings with Bowlen to get them pushed out and move Xanders into the full time GM role. Neither McDaniels nor Xanders is going to have that kind of influence and pull within the organization, especially Josh who was only a month into his new job.


Wrong those are not only options McDaniels had. He could have manned up and said I can't do all the these jobs it to much for one man. And what would that have accomplished? Josh can't make Bowlen hire another true GM, so he's right back at square one. Deal with it or resign.

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 09:41 PM
Xanders, not McDaniels was the one who had the power struggle with Jeff Goodman. Xanders was Joe's other "golden boy" so he pulled the strings with Bowlen to get them pushed out and move Xanders into the full time GM role. Neither McDaniels nor Xanders is going to have that kind of influence and pull within the organization, especially Josh who was only a month into his new job.

And what would that have accomplished? Josh can't make Bowlen hire another true GM, so he's right back at square one. Deal with it or resign.

That's your guess. My guess is that McDaniels was up to his eyeballs in that mess.

Second you're assuming Bowlen wouldn't have accommodated him. That would be going against Bowlens m.o. Bowlen has always given his head coaches what they ask for.

Again what we're doing here is a side show. The real issue is McDaniels has never taken responsibility for his own mistakes.

Juriga72
01-19-2011, 09:43 PM
Xanders, not McDaniels was the one who had the power struggle with Jeff Goodman. Xanders was Joe's other "golden boy" so he pulled the strings with Bowlen to get them pushed out and move Xanders into the full time GM role. Neither McDaniels nor Xanders is going to have that kind of influence and pull within the organization, especially Josh who was only a month into his new job.

And what would that have accomplished? Josh can't make Bowlen hire another true GM, so he's right back at square one. Deal with it or resign.

So after one month.... Your brand new "Never been a head coach before" 32 year old is now a GM???

What was it that they said when they fired Shanny??? "We will never give that much power to one person again"...

JOSH..... simply said "I got's it" when "Asked if he could be the GM".

NO way does this mistake get made by Pat or Joe....again one month after they just fired the longest tenured coach in Bronco history/

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 09:45 PM
So after one month.... Your brand new "Never been a head coach before" 32 year old is now a GM???

What was it that they said when they fired Shanny??? "We will never give that much power to one person again"...

JOSH..... simply said "I got's it" when "Asked if he could be the GM".

NO way does this mistake get made by Pat or Joe....again one month after they just fired the longest tenured coach in Bronco history/

As I mentioned twice before rehashing this part of McDaniels past is just a side show. The real issue is that he hasn't taken responsibility for his own mistakes.

broncofaninfla
01-19-2011, 09:51 PM
If Paige is right, when the Broncos made their settlement it was one that was very favorable to the organization.

What's this b.s. that everyone wasn't pulling the same direction? He was allowed to do everything he wanted to do. He got rid of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis and was allowed to turnover 80 plus percent of the roster and he got to choose the players he wanted in the draft how is that not pulling in the same direction?

100% this! Agree word for word! Confirmation that he is a total p***k.

bcbronc
01-19-2011, 09:51 PM
Yes it is really true he could said no and he didn't he wanted that kind of stroke.

Nevertheless I think you're jumping to conclusions with nothing to hang your hat on. McDaniels didn't say he had to many jobs to do. He said not everyone was pulling in the same direction. That means he wanted to go in one direction and everyone else wanted to go in a different direction. I have never seen that phrase used as code for I had to much work to do.

The bottom line is McDaniels thinks everyone else is to blame for everything went wrong and there are plenty of instances that show he's the kind of guy who takes responsibility for his own screw ups.

I think you've got it wrong, TX. imo what McDaniels probably was referring to was there being an agreement/understanding in the FO chain right up to Bowlen that there would be a season or two of tough times while we purged the mediocracy and he brought in "his" players. But then when the predictable losing occurred, the FO panicked and decided to start over.

I just hope the FO right up to Bowlen is willing to give Elway and Fox more than 1.5 offseasons to right the ship before they decide to start over, even if we have *gasp* a losing season.

gnomeflinger
01-19-2011, 09:52 PM
What was he going to do about it? Demand that Bowlen not fire the Goodmans? Demand they hire another GM?

When that happened, Josh had exactly two options. Try to do both jobs himself, or resign.

He should have resigned.

Bosco
01-19-2011, 09:56 PM
So after one month.... Your brand new "Never been a head coach before" 32 year old is now a GM???

What was it that they said when they fired Shanny??? "We will never give that much power to one person again"...

JOSH..... simply said "I got's it" when "Asked if he could be the GM".

NO way does this mistake get made by Pat or Joe....again one month after they just fired the longest tenured coach in Bronco history/

If Pat or Joe doesn't make the mistake, who does? Josh didn't have the authority to fire either of the Goodmans. That had to come from above him. He also didn't have the authority to hire another GM.

People can bitch about Josh's skills as a GM all the want and be perfectly justified, anyone in their right mind (which removes a large portion of the posters here) is going to say he put himself in that position.

gnomeflinger
01-19-2011, 09:56 PM
I think you've got it wrong, TX. imo what McDaniels probably was referring to was there being an agreement/understanding in the FO chain right up to Bowlen that there would be a season or two of tough times while we purged the mediocracy and he brought in "his" players. But then when the predictable losing occurred, the FO panicked and decided to start over.

I just hope the FO right up to Bowlen is willing to give Elway and Fox more than 1.5 offseasons to right the ship before they decide to start over, even if we have *gasp* a losing season.

There's the expectation to a "losing" season, then there is the "running the franchise into the ground" season. I was Team McDaniels in the beginning. I was willing to give him a chance. But then he had to go and make a mockery of the team. His statement in that article just solidifies Bowlen made the correct decision in firing him.

Juriga72
01-19-2011, 09:59 PM
If Pat or Joe doesn't make the mistake, who does? Josh didn't have the authority to fire either of the Goodmans. That had to come from above him. He also didn't have the authority to hire another GM.

People can bitch about Josh's skills as a GM all the want and be perfectly justified, anyone in their right mind (which removes a large portion of the posters here) is going to say he put himself in that position.

True.. The very same poeple who fired Shanny HC/GM should have known they would have to hire someone else.

NOT doing that, you have to think that Josh talked them out of hiring the next GM by saying "I can do it".

Either way its a multi-million dollar mistake

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 10:04 PM
There's the expectation to a "losing" season, then there is the "running the franchise into the ground" season. I was Team McDaniels in the beginning. I was willing to give him a chance. But then he had to go and make a mockery of the team. His statement in that article just solidifies Bowlen made the correct decision in firing him.

I don't think the losing got him fired, it would have eventually but that's just the icing on a burnt to a crisp brownie. What got him was his combative nature and his lies.

bcbronc
01-19-2011, 10:13 PM
There's the expectation to a "losing" season, then there is the "running the franchise into the ground" season. I was Team McDaniels in the beginning. I was willing to give him a chance. But then he had to go and make a mockery of the team. His statement in that article just solidifies Bowlen made the correct decision in firing him.

I don't get this whole "ran the franchise into the ground" sentiment.

I know, I know, he ran Cutler, Marshal, Scheff and Hillis out of town. But he replaced them with Tebow, DT, ..., and Moreno. Overall, which group has the better overall talent is debatable (and not answerable for at least a couple more years). He also finished rebuilding the oline (maybe, but Beadles and Walton are going in the right direction).

Yes, our defense is still in need of work, but he did bring in some key vets that made huge strides in 2009. But losing Doom, Ayers, Dawkins, Hill and Goodman to injuries throughout the season, and having a first-time DC, meant we took two steps back. That and our UFA DL signings being the sux.

I know I'm going to get the "McDaniel's apologist" flaming, and that's fine. But that's not what this post is about, I'm stoked to FINALLY have a defense-first head coach! but where other's see a team "ran into the ground" I see a team going through a PROPER rebuild, like just about every other franchise has to do at some point.

gnomeflinger
01-19-2011, 10:18 PM
I don't think the losing got him fired, it would have eventually but that's just the icing on a burnt to a crisp brownie. What got him was his combative nature and his lies.

I agree.

Dean
01-19-2011, 10:35 PM
IF you are a good leader of people, you can in fact get everyone pulling in the same direction. If you keep promising the moon but keep delivering blocks of cheese, people will loose faith and confidence in you and your message, and when that happens people start trying to figure out their own way to get things done, then you don't have everyone pulling the same direction.

Don't sample any. That wasn't cheese he was shoveling.

I am glad that McKid is eager to start work with another team. I have been eager for him to do just that for a year and a half. Bye Josh.

Ravage!!!
01-19-2011, 10:39 PM
As I mentioned twice before rehashing this part of McDaniels past is just a side show. The real issue is that he hasn't taken responsibility for his own mistakes.

go figure. He didn't know how to take a single ounce of responsibility. His ego is too large to believe he made any mistakes.

Ravage!!!
01-19-2011, 10:44 PM
I know I'm going to get the "McDaniel's apologist" flaming, and that's fine. But that's not what this post is about, I'm stoked to FINALLY have a defense-first head coach! but where other's see a team "ran into the ground" I see a team going through a PROPER rebuild, like just about every other franchise has to do at some point.

I don't see whats "PROPER" about it??? :confused: How is it proper? What makes it "proper" when he traded off all the talent we had on the team, to TRY and replace them with unknowns. How is that Proper? How does that make sense to rebuilding at all? Especially when all the players that were shipped off, were extremely young??? :confused:

this is NOT an example of a "PROPER" rebuild, this is an example of what NOT to do. This is what EVERY new coach will use as a teaching seminar on how NOT to run a franchise or how to "rebuild" a team. No way anyone could logically call this a "proper" rebuild. Just makes no sense, Bc, I'm sorry.

BeefStew25
01-19-2011, 10:48 PM
Got through about 4 posts before I was reminded why I took a vacation from here.

See y'all in a few months to see if the hate has deminished or not

Plenty of room the bandwagon loser.

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 10:52 PM
I don't get this whole "ran the franchise into the ground" sentiment.

I know, I know, he ran Cutler, Marshal, Scheff and Hillis out of town. But he replaced them with Tebow, DT, ..., and Moreno. Overall, which group has the better overall talent is debatable (and not answerable for at least a couple more years). He also finished rebuilding the oline (maybe, but Beadles and Walton are going in the right direction).

Yes, our defense is still in need of work, but he did bring in some key vets that made huge strides in 2009. But losing Doom, Ayers, Dawkins, Hill and Goodman to injuries throughout the season, and having a first-time DC, meant we took two steps back. That and our UFA DL signings being the sux.

I know I'm going to get the "McDaniel's apologist" flaming, and that's fine. But that's not what this post is about, I'm stoked to FINALLY have a defense-first head coach! but where other's see a team "ran into the ground" I see a team going through a PROPER rebuild, like just about every other franchise has to do at some point.

As much as I like Tebow, Thomas, Moreno (subject to change), and Ayers (also subject to change) I'm not sure how they have replaced anything right. Tebow and Thomas show incredible promise but they are both as raw as they come. Moreno and Ayers haven't shown much of anything. We've gotten here and there but that's it. I totally disagree with you on whether the group of Tebow, Thomas, Moreno and Ayers is more talented than Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis. The four that McDaniels ran off have already proven they can play at a very high level in this League. Tebow, Thomas, Moreno, and Ayers will hopefully catch up but there is no debate.

The whole "ran the franchise into the ground" sentiment seems crystal clear to me. McDaniel had four young and proven players that he could have taken and built his offense around and chose not too. Instead he chose to reinvent the wheel when all he had to do was rebuild the defense and install his offensive scheme with a tweak here and there. So the way I see it McDaniels had more to work with when he came than when he left.

Ravage!!!
01-19-2011, 11:00 PM
Got through about 4 posts before I was reminded why I took a vacation from here.

See y'all in a few months to see if the hate has deminished or not

If you want to read anything good about McDoosh.... don't go to a Broncos message board.

:wave: Bye!!

rationalfan
01-19-2011, 11:38 PM
who has a more distorted revisionist take on history: mcdaniels or the mcdaniels haters?

i can argue for both sides.

scott.475
01-20-2011, 12:06 AM
who has a more distorted revisionist take on history: mcdaniels or the mcdaniels haters?

i can argue for both sides.

What is revisionist about him coaching us to 3 whole wins this year? What is revisionist about the QB he chased off playing in NFC championship game this year, while NEITHER of the QBs he wanted to replace him with (Cassell, Orton) even got a playoff win? The lowly Cleveland Browns finished with a better record than us, largely on the back of the running back he traded away for no discernible reason. All the reports I read before today from sportswriters wrote about McDaniels having the Goodmans replaced, and that McDaniels WAS the one making the decisions on personnel, I don't recall a single story about anyone else stepping in to tell him "Whoa, you are not doing that". Finally, and what I really think was the nail in his coffin, was that HE hired a proven liar and cheater as a videographer and then engaged in a cover-up when HIS video man ONCE AGAIN recorded another teams walk-throughs...even the 9ers new he was doing it, which is why they didn't show much during that session, their players said that after the story broke!

So, saying Josh is an incompetent, petulant, irrational liar is not revising anything, it is just stating the truth.

weazel
01-20-2011, 12:07 AM
its amazing how one man can destroy a franchise in such a short time span.

this franchise was already in trouble... he didn't help, but he didnt do it alone.

scott.475
01-20-2011, 12:13 AM
this franchise was already in trouble... he didn't help, but he didnt do it alone.

I partly agree. I think we certainly seemed to have the offensive pieces in place to build a future on, but D and ST were a wreck. McD did nothing to improve D or ST and scattered the pieces of what could have been a good O to the four winds (an I am not even upset about Marshall, he was probably going to be gone whether McD was here or not I think).

weazel
01-20-2011, 12:18 AM
I partly agree. I think we certainly seemed to have the offensive pieces in place to build a future on, but D and ST were a wreck. McD did nothing to improve D or ST and scattered the pieces of what could have been a good O to the four winds (an I am not even upset about Marshall, he was probably going to be gone whether McD was here or not I think).

I'm not just talking about the on-field product...

Lonestar
01-20-2011, 01:35 AM
So, saying Josh is an incompetent, petulant, irrational liar is not revising anything, it is just stating the truth.

No one has proved any of the above. Sorry but without absolute proof is merely OPINION.

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 01:41 AM
No one has proved any of the above. Sorry but without absolute proof is merely OPINION.

You don't think Josh has proven any of this? WoW... :confused:

Lonestar
01-20-2011, 01:45 AM
this franchise was already in trouble... he didn't help, but he didnt do it alone.


:salute: great post..


Yep I agree it took mikey about 10 years of apathy in acquiring talent especially on D to cause this franchise to switch the wagon master.. and the last 3 years of his regime were a joke. a OC run a muck deperately trying to bolster the O to save his ass. giving up the D thinking if he could out score everyone they would be winners.

to get to the playoffs because everyone knows "anything can happen" then..

but what was a fallacy in that thinking we always faded late in the year. we had no real running game that could be counted on when the weather got crappy.

oh I remember many many after season pressers saying we were only a couple of players away.. Always THE flim flam man for the masses and probably Pat to get him another years to re-become the mastermind.

Just do not get WHY no one else saw this or now will admit it..

Lonestar
01-20-2011, 01:51 AM
I partly agree. I think we certainly seemed to have the offensive pieces in place to build a future on, but D and ST were a wreck. McD did nothing to improve D or ST and scattered the pieces of what could have been a good O to the four winds (an I am not even upset about Marshall, he was probably going to be gone whether McD was here or not I think).

do you or anyone really think that petulant punk was going to be happy in a very controlled passing game?

If so I have lots of ocean front property for sale down the street from my house.. Can make y'all a hell of a deal CASH ONLY..

as for Hillis not sure that even had mikey stayed he would have seen any playing time.

scheffler, just what has he done lately NFL Not For Long.

your correct he gave BM a chance and bm blew it with his antics, even so I doubt we would have ever made him happy monetarily. and to say the least he needed out of town for MANY reason with the first being DW..

Lonestar
01-20-2011, 01:54 AM
You don't think Josh has proven any of this? WoW... :confused:

petulant maybe.

the other things are what coaches are made out of..

take a look around, frankly look hard at mikey since he seems to be an idol of lots of folks..

if I had to chose descriptors of mikey those would be near the top of the list.

along with genius (limited to OC in his earlier years) and napoleon.

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 01:57 AM
petulant maybe.

the other things are what coaches are made out of..

take a look around, frankly look hard at mikey since he seems to be an idol of lots of folks..

if I had to chose descriptors of mikey those would be near the top of the list.

along with genius (limited to OC in his earlier years) and napoleon.

IMO, Josh proved to be an average Head Coach his time here, but he proved to be an absolutely HORRIBLE GM. He took an 8-8 team with no defense and a good offense and drove it into the ground on both sides of the football. Of course, that was the fault of Ellis and Bowlen for giving him those powers to begin with. No 32 year old rookie Head Coach should be given GM duties, EVER.

Lonestar
01-20-2011, 02:10 AM
IMO, Josh proved to be an average Head Coach his time here, but he proved to be an absolutely HORRIBLE GM. He took an 8-8 team with no defense and a good offense and drove it into the ground on both sides of the football. Of course, that was the fault of Ellis and Bowlen for giving him those powers to begin with. No 32 year old rookie Head Coach should be given GM duties, EVER.

without oversight I agree with you about total control.. they should have had a strong experienced GM BEFORE they hired Josh.

I have always advocated that.

But IMO you do not switch wagon masters (HC) mid stream, EVER. Just confuses the issues..

Lets hope that John can lead a few more fourth quarter comebacks..:salute:

dogfish
01-20-2011, 02:27 AM
I don't get this whole "ran the franchise into the ground" sentiment.

I know, I know, he ran Cutler, Marshal, Scheff and Hillis out of town. But he replaced them with Tebow, DT, ..., and Moreno. Overall, which group has the better overall talent is debatable (and not answerable for at least a couple more years). He also finished rebuilding the oline (maybe, but Beadles and Walton are going in the right direction).

Yes, our defense is still in need of work, but he did bring in some key vets that made huge strides in 2009. But losing Doom, Ayers, Dawkins, Hill and Goodman to injuries throughout the season, and having a first-time DC, meant we took two steps back. That and our UFA DL signings being the sux.

I know I'm going to get the "McDaniel's apologist" flaming, and that's fine. But that's not what this post is about, I'm stoked to FINALLY have a defense-first head coach! but where other's see a team "ran into the ground" I see a team going through a PROPER rebuild, like just about every other franchise has to do at some point.

c'mon, man. . .

:huh:


a proper rebuild woulda been leaving the offense the **** alone other than adding a RB and a couple young interior OLs, while spending the vast majority of available resources on the defense. . . not dicking around replacing all the young offensive parts with different ones while the defense just kept getting older and slower. . . you don't rebuild with tons of old guys. . .

Lonestar
01-20-2011, 04:52 AM
c'mon, man. . .

:huh:


a proper rebuild woulda been leaving the offense the **** alone other than adding a RB and a couple young interior OLs, while spending the vast majority of available resources on the defense. . . not dicking around replacing all the young offensive parts with different ones while the defense just kept getting older and slower. . . you don't rebuild with tons of old guys. . .

Actually to rebuild you have to have a mix Old and new. Or you find your self in the position down the road of having to replace everyone AGAIN at once when all the rookies over the past year flame out.

As for getting rid of the offense it was only jay that left before Josh had a chAnce to work with him. An immature act of one person. Wewill have to agree to disagree on whom it was.

The rest of the offense he dumped. The ZBS, Hamilton and casEy. Those were all on Josh. as for bm and TS they worked themselves out of DEN with the attitude issue. Nobig loss IMO, As for hillis I think NO ONE Dared think he would have the season he did almost NO ONE shed a tear when he left.

Did anyone expect Josh to use mikeys play book? Really anyone?

Josh was hired to change our culture and model us after NE. The team that took our spot in the elite after all of our HOF guys boogied.

Those are the facts.

Lonestar
01-20-2011, 05:05 AM
Let me add if your starting nothing but kiddies you are going to be way more inconsistent than having a mix of Old and new. And who would teach them the tricks.

Did Josh handle it right on? According to everyone here he failed at GM 101 but y'all forget he was hired to be HC not GM.

Not sure if you wanted Xman to handle it or not.


Hmmmm

atwater27
01-20-2011, 05:17 AM
Josh was hired to change our culture and model us after NE. The team that took our spot in the elite after all of our HOF guys boogied.

Those are the facts.

Might want to discuss those facts with the guy that fired him.

atwater27
01-20-2011, 05:18 AM
Let me add if your starting nothing but kiddies you are going to be way more inconsistent than having a mix of Old and new. And who would teach them the tricks.



The problem wasn't the kiddies starting. It was the infant coaching.

Lonestar
01-20-2011, 05:25 AM
I do hope he fails at his new job, that ego of his needs to be shattered so he can pick up the pieces and rebuild himself into a guy that function without ostracizing everyone around him.

The more I think about it, the more I think his new direction he is talking about is "Don't break our team like you did that last one kid!"

Seems that all the talking heads think this a marriage made in heaven his brilliant plAy calling with dynamic players.



Not one doubts his coaching.

atwater27
01-20-2011, 05:27 AM
Not one doubts his coaching.

R.O.F.L. keep em comin.

dogfish
01-20-2011, 05:27 AM
Actually to rebuild you have to have a mix Old and new. Or you find your self in the position down the road of having to replace everyone AGAIN at once when all the rookies over the past year flame out.

WTF???


As for getting rid of the offense it was only jay that left before Josh had a chAnce to work with him.

and how many afterwards?


The rest of the offense he dumped.

yea, he did-- you see the problem. . .


The ZBS, Hamilton and casEy. Those were all on Josh.

hence the "other than adding a RB and a couple young interior OLs" part of my post. . .

[/boggle]


As for hillis I think NO ONE Dared think he would have the season he did almost NO ONE shed a tear when he left.

seriously, what? plenty of people were PISSED when hillis got traded-- you think all those threads complaining about it were some accident?


Did anyone expect Josh to use mikeys play book? Really anyone?

no. . . who the hell said ANYTHING about playbook? what are you talking about?


Josh was hired to change our culture and model us after NE. The team that took our spot in the elite after all of our HOF guys boogied.

too bad he failed miserably, completely and utterly at it, and burned our franchise to the ground in the process. . . first twelve loss season in franchise history. . . nice work by the bigger, faster, stronger, tougher, smarter TEAM. . . maybe it's the fan's fault for "hating" josh so much. . . :laugh:

or maybe it's josh's fault for not getting any good defensive linemen-- new england has traditionally had a tough defense, how was having the worst defense in the league modelling us after new england?

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 09:53 AM
He was doing a job that he wasn't qualified to do..... Which is funny... because he is not even qualified to be a head coach.

Maybe you could enlighten us on what the qualifications are, for HC. ??
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rcsodak
01-20-2011, 10:05 AM
So after one month.... Your brand new "Never been a head coach before" 32 year old is now a GM???

What was it that they said when they fired Shanny??? "We will never give that much power to one person again"...

JOSH..... simply said "I got's it" when "Asked if he could be the GM".

NO way does this mistake get made by Pat or Joe....again one month after they just fired the longest tenured coach in Bronco history/
I believe, in their presser after firing mcd, they ADMITTED to doing what they said they wouldn't.....and put too much pressure/responsibilies on him.
Don't know about anybody else, but when I had my own business, and was hired to do 1 thing and then asked if I could also do something else, I said you bet!
Sometimes you have to go outside your comfort zone (area of expertise) to grow.....and if you fail, just pray you learn from your mistakes.
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rcsodak
01-20-2011, 10:09 AM
As I mentioned twice before rehashing this part of McDaniels past is just a side show. The real issue is that he hasn't taken responsibility for his own mistakes.
Honestly, he's not being hired into the same position, and what he did/did not do, is irrevelant, imo. He wants to move on and should be allowed to.
As for him never owning up to anything, go back to his season ending presser and listen again. Pretty sure it was given a thread here, also.
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TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 10:24 AM
Honestly, he's not being hired into the same position, and what he did/did not do, is irrevelant, imo. He wants to move on and should be allowed to.
As for him never owning up to anything, go back to his season ending presser and listen again. Pretty sure it was given a thread here, also.
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He paid lip service to it but his actions are not the ones of someone who actually owns up to anything. After the Raiders crushed at home he took his entire before and dressed them down that's not actions of someone who takes responsibility for his own mistakes.

GEM
01-20-2011, 10:27 AM
I believe, in their presser after firing mcd, they ADMITTED to doing what they said they wouldn't.....and put too much pressure/responsibilies on him.
Don't know about anybody else, but when I had my own business, and was hired to do 1 thing and then asked if I could also do something else, I said you bet!
Sometimes you have to go outside your comfort zone (are of expertise) to grow.....and if you fail, just pray you learn from your mistakes.
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So you got hired to run your own business?


:D

Mike
01-20-2011, 10:35 AM
Nobig loss IMO, As for hillis I think NO ONE Dared think he would have the season he did almost NO ONE shed a tear when he left.

Did anyone expect Josh to use mikeys play book? Really anyone?

Josh was hired to change our culture and model us after NE. The team that took our spot in the elite after all of our HOF guys boogied.

Those are the facts.

Plenty of people were pissed the entire year McD wasted Hillis on the bench. By the end of the year people were resigned to the fact that McD, for whatever reason, would not play Hillis and did not appreciate his potential and figured he would be moved. It was not unexpected so there was not much outrage. But his success in Cleveland is no surprise to those of us who saw what he did Shanahan's last year.

McD was hired to make the Broncos better. He did not. He destroyed the team in record time. Anyone who still supports this guy ought to have his head examined. He was a failure of epic proportions. May 50 billion dead vampires artificially inseminate monkeys while wizzing on his dog.

GEM
01-20-2011, 10:36 AM
If Paige is right, when the Broncos made their settlement it was one that was very favorable to the organization.

What's this b.s. that everyone wasn't pulling the same direction? He was allowed to do everything he wanted to do. He got rid of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis and was allowed to turnover 80 plus percent of the roster and he got to choose the players he wanted in the draft how is that not pulling in the same direction?

Wasn't it McD who came in with his masterful power point of every facet of the game and how he was going to run it all? He gained the trust and shattered it. Sorry...spilling the blame on everyone else, just like he did when he took his coaching staff in front of the owner and belittled them as if he weren't the key problem.....one time is coincidence, more than one time is a pattern. Take responsibility, leprechaun.

vettesplus
01-20-2011, 10:36 AM
he is still in denver???

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 10:48 AM
I don't see whats "PROPER" about it??? :confused: How is it proper? What makes it "proper" when he traded off all the talent we had on the team, to TRY and replace them with unknowns. How is that Proper? How does that make sense to rebuilding at all? Especially when all the players that were shipped off, were extremely young??? :confused:

this is NOT an example of a "PROPER" rebuild, this is an example of what NOT to do. This is what EVERY new coach will use as a teaching seminar on how NOT to run a franchise or how to "rebuild" a team. No way anyone could logically call this a "proper" rebuild. Just makes no sense, Bc, I'm sorry.

Who exactly are the nobodys you're referring to?
7thrd rb or 1strd rb?
2ndrd wr or 1strd wrwr
Which 1strd qb?
I'd hardly rate his draft picks as poorly as you're trying to do.
In a nutshell, he rid the team of an underachieving qb/te/cb, a petulant wr (diva) and screwed up on an overachieving rb.
Now its time to see how the replacements do.
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turftoad
01-20-2011, 10:59 AM
Actually to rebuild you have to have a mix Old and new.

The team did not need a total rebuild when McFired took over. They needed on after he took over.

He had to replace the offensive players he pissed off and got rid of. Therefor, he didn't rebuild the "D" which was the side of the ball that needed help, not the offense.

That was all on McFired. That was his fault. We all know where that got him.

Yep, McFired.

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 10:59 AM
You don't think Josh has proven any of this? WoW... :confused:To be proven, is to require factual proof. Until that's provided, Lonestar is correct. Imo, mcd did nothing other hc's haven't done/said.
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GEM
01-20-2011, 11:00 AM
To be proven, is to require factual proof. Until that's provided, Lonestar is correct. Imo, mcd did nothing other hc's haven't done/said.
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:lol: Now THAT is some funny stuff right there.

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 11:03 AM
:salute: great post..


Yep I agree it took mikey about 10 years of apathy in acquiring talent especially on D to cause this franchise to switch the wagon master.. and the last 3 years of his regime were a joke. a OC run a muck deperately trying to bolster the O to save his ass. giving up the D thinking if he could out score everyone they would be winners.

to get to the playoffs because everyone knows "anything can happen" then..

but what was a fallacy in that thinking we always faded late in the year. we had no real running game that could be counted on when the weather got crappy.

oh I remember many many after season pressers saying we were only a couple of players away.. Always THE flim flam man for the masses and probably Pat to get him another years to re-become the mastermind.

Just do not get WHY no one else saw this or now will admit it..
Because he won 2 sb's a decade+ ago, silly. :rolleyes:
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TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 11:04 AM
Wasn't it McD who came in with his masterful power point of every facet of the game and how he was going to run it all? He gained the trust and shattered it. Sorry...spilling the blame on everyone else, just like he did when he took his coaching staff in front of the owner and belittled them as if he weren't the key problem.....one time is coincidence, more than one time is a pattern. Take responsibility, leprechaun.

Yes he did.

What bothered even more was the lie. He said when he was hired he knew nothing about Spygate but a year and half later he can go into detail with his staff about how New England's scandal was different from what happened in London. Not being forthright with the public is one thing lying to your boss and embarrassing him publicly is quite another.

Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 11:07 AM
Actually to rebuild you have to have a mix Old and new. Or you find your self in the position down the road of having to replace everyone AGAIN at once when all the rookies over the past year flame out.

As for getting rid of the offense it was only jay that left before Josh had a chAnce to work with him. An immature act of one person. Wewill have to agree to disagree on whom it was.

The rest of the offense he dumped. The ZBS, Hamilton and casEy. Those were all on Josh. as for bm and TS they worked themselves out of DEN with the attitude issue. Nobig loss IMO, As for hillis I think NO ONE Dared think he would have the season he did almost NO ONE shed a tear when he left.

Did anyone expect Josh to use mikeys play book? Really anyone?

Josh was hired to change our culture and model us after NE. The team that took our spot in the elite after all of our HOF guys boogied.

Those are the facts.

These aren't facts, these are opinions on which you ar stating as fact.

The FACT is, the players he got rid of were the YOUNG ones. So if you are going to "rebuild" with young and new, why get rid of the GOOD players that are YOUNG?? :confused:

As far as Marshall and Sheffler, they were out because of McD's issues, not theirs. When you get rid of a top 5 WR in the NFL.. its a BIG deal. When you get rid of the best WR this franchise has ever owned, its a BIG deal.

As far as Hillis, ther were TONS of fans that could see the potential this kid had after his rookie season in Denver. Go back and read the boards. PLENTY of fans could see that he could be a TB for any team, and MANY MANY were very upset that he wasn't used his first season, and even MORE upset when he was traded. Why do you think McDoosh got tired of answering questions about Hillis to the media??? Because there were a LOT of them because he was VERYpopular with everyone.

McDick was hired to create a winning team and build UPON what we already had. THOSE, as you say, are the facts.

Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 11:09 AM
Yes he did.

What bothered even more was the lie. He said when he was hired he knew nothing about Spygate but a year and half later he can go into detail with his staff about how New England's scandal was different from what happened in London. Not being forthright with the public is one thing lying to your boss and embarrassing him publicly is quite another.

Everytime that guy smacked his lips, he was lying. Starting with nearly day one and his "I just picked up the phone."

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 11:13 AM
So you got hired to run your own business?


:D
Was hired, by a cliient, to do a certain job. It was service oriented.
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Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 11:17 AM
Not one doubts his coaching.

What!?!?! Who DOESN'T doubt his coaching???? His offense was putrid, his defense was horrendous, his people skills were ridiculously lacking, and his record was the worst in franchise history. What part about his coaching skills makes you think people don't doubt him?

He is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE coach.

GEM
01-20-2011, 11:19 AM
Was hired, by a cliient, to do a certain job. It was service oriented.
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I know....I was giving ya shit. :D

Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 11:19 AM
Yes he did.

What bothered even more was the lie. He said when he was hired he knew nothing about Spygate but a year and half later he can go into detail with his staff about how New England's scandal was different from what happened in London. Not being forthright with the public is one thing lying to your boss and embarrassing him publicly is quite another.

But this would be proof that he was a liar, and can't possibly be true.

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 11:23 AM
Everytime that guy smacked his lips, he was lying. Starting with nearly day one and his "I just picked up the phone."

Opinion
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TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 11:24 AM
To be proven, is to require factual proof. Until that's provided, Lonestar is correct. Imo, mcd did nothing other hc's haven't done/said.
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No he's not. McDaniels said he had nothing to do with Spygate and then a year and half later tells his staff in detail the difference between what happened in New England and what happened in London. That's called lying.

Also if what McDaniels wasn't wrong why did he hide it Bowlen and Ellis? And why did the League fine him and the Broncos $50,000 each if was no big deal?

turftoad
01-20-2011, 11:25 AM
What!?!?! Who DOESN'T doubt his coaching???? His offense was putrid, his defense was horrendous, his people skills were ridiculously lacking, and his record was the worst in franchise history. What part about his coaching skills makes you think people don't doubt him?

He is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE coach.

The bolded part was his biggest downfall.

Pissing off players and coach's is not the way to build a winning franchise or any business for that fact. And..... that is a fact.

He replaced proven players and coach's (that didn't want to work for him) with unproven players and coach's. Which.......... got him McFired. :salute:

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 11:25 AM
I know....I was giving ya shit. :D
I know.....ya dork. ;-) But others would have (prolly still will) jumped in. :wink:
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rcsodak
01-20-2011, 11:29 AM
I'm just happy that now that mcd is gone, and he's being called "doosh", "dick", "*****", "ass"...that we can now do the same to shanny. Alls fair in love n war...... :elefant:
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BroncoJoe
01-20-2011, 11:30 AM
I hate what he did to this franchise, but it's not like he killed my best friend or something.

Frankly, I don't hold any ill will toward him, and wish him well.

Just never come to Dove Valley again. tia.

Northman
01-20-2011, 11:33 AM
I believe, in their presser after firing mcd, they ADMITTED to doing what they said they wouldn't.....and put too much pressure/responsibilies on him.
Don't know about anybody else, but when I had my own business, and was hired to do 1 thing and then asked if I could also do something else, I said you bet!
Sometimes you have to go outside your comfort zone (area of expertise) to grow.....and if you fail, just pray you learn from your mistakes.
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Exactly, which makes it Josh's fault but im glad you have admitted the dude screwed up. Kudo's to you. :beer:

turftoad
01-20-2011, 11:34 AM
I'm just happy that now that mcd is gone, and he's being called "doosh", "dick", "*****", "ass"...that we can now do the same to shanny. Alls fair in love n war...... :elefant:
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I'm pretty sure that Shanahan is way more respected than McFired will probably EVER be.
Shanahan has a great history with the Denver Broncos. McFired? Not so much.

Read my sig. And........ it's not only Williamsons opinion.

TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 11:35 AM
I'm just happy that now that mcd is gone, and he's being called "doosh", "dick", "*****", "ass"...that we can now do the same to shanny. Alls fair in love n war...... :elefant:
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When did you guys ever really stop RC?

Northman
01-20-2011, 11:38 AM
When did you guys ever really stop RC?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

For real. hahaha

Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 11:42 AM
When did you guys ever really stop RC?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Its ok.. his best attempt at a nick name for Cutler was "cut-n-runner." So I dont think shanahan has to worry about any new names ruining his rep.

arapaho2
01-20-2011, 12:18 PM
I think it's pretty clear he's referencing the fact that he had no real GM, even after Bowlen said they would have one after firing Shanahan.

In this case, I'd think you of all people would be in strong agreement with McDaniels. You were extremely vocal (and rightfully so) that was nothing but a glorified bean counter and our young first time head coach got saddled with what is effectively two 80 hour a week jobs.


wrong...they had a good tandum in the Goodmans...josh couldnt work with them...josh forced the issue and they were let go...josh could have let the front office do what they did...he chose to take control...he wanted the control

it wasnt the office that wanted cassel...it was josh...it wasnt the office that didnt want to use Hillis...or refused to honor the previous commitment of a new contract to our probowl wr....it wasnt the front office that wanted to trade a 14th pick straight up for a 2nd or 3rd round talent....then trade that player for a 7th round TE after you realize you dont have a pass catching TE...because you traded him...all josh

josh had the complete control of the team because he demanded it. not because he recognized ellis couldnt or wouldnt do it

arapaho2
01-20-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't get this whole "ran the franchise into the ground" sentiment.

I know, I know, he ran Cutler, Marshal, Scheff and Hillis out of town. But he replaced them with Tebow, DT, ..., and Moreno. Overall, which group has the better overall talent is debatable (and not answerable for at least a couple more years). He also finished rebuilding the oline (maybe, but Beadles and Walton are going in the right direction).

Yes, our defense is still in need of work, but he did bring in some key vets that made huge strides in 2009. But losing Doom, Ayers, Dawkins, Hill and Goodman to injuries throughout the season, and having a first-time DC, meant we took two steps back. That and our UFA DL signings being the sux.

I know I'm going to get the "McDaniel's apologist" flaming, and that's fine. But that's not what this post is about, I'm stoked to FINALLY have a defense-first head coach! but where other's see a team "ran into the ground" I see a team going through a PROPER rebuild, like just about every other franchise has to do at some point.


this post is so full of fail

you dont get the "ran our team into the ground"

we had a probowl QB...PB wr....great pass catching TE who if used and developed would be a linebackers nightmare....and a truely gifted FB/RB who showed so much promise as a rookie....this unit was the overall 2nd ranked offense with 8 of the eleven starters under three yrs in the league
we also had the 29th ranked defense

we now have a average play it safe qb or a raw tebow instead of the guy who will be in the superbowl if he wins one more game...a average rb...and a glass wr in thomas who cant stay healthy..

all rolled up into the now 12th ranked offense

and that 29th ranked defense he was supposed to fix...is now the worst defense in the league

and what key def players made huge strides in 09?....wait yes the defense made huge strides as a unit from 29th to 7th....only to have him chase away the dc responsible for the turn around...and back down to the worst defense under his choice of DC

a proper rebuild woulda been keeping the talent and replaceing what wasnt...not tearing the whole team down and makeing it way worse than the team he took over

arapaho2
01-20-2011, 12:49 PM
Maybe you could enlighten us on what the qualifications are, for HC. ??
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being smart
capable of working with players and sub coaches
football IQ
multiple years NFL coaching expirience
capable of adaptation
willingness to admit a mistake
subscribe to the notion..talent is needed
doesnt throw players under the bus to the national media
honesty
integrity
willingness to let DC coach the defense...and the OC coach the offense
willingness to put personal feelings for players aside to better the team


basically everything mcd wasnt

zbeg
01-20-2011, 01:40 PM
Certainly McDaniels' personnel decisions were overall pretty poor from what we can tell, although the jury is still out on the drafting, particularly the 2010 draft, which is looking like it could be quite good and full of contributors.

But it's hard to have any conclusions on a draft until about three years, so complaining that he blew two straight drafts is extremely premature. The Alphonso Smith draft swap was unquestionably bad and doesn't the benefit of hindsight to figure that out, but other than that, we just don't know - this next season will be the telltale season for the 2009 class.

But the demonizing of McDaniels is ridiculous. "McDaniels ended the Bailey contract negotiations." "McDaniels ruined the franchise." "McDaniels installed the gameplan for the 1996 playoff game against the Jaguars." "McDaniels convinced Bowlen to sell the naming rights to Mile High." "McDaniels was behind the switch to blue jerseys in 1997." "McDaniels tore Terrell Davis's ACL." "McDaniels ate Peter Forsberg's spleen."

It's like a tall tale that keeps getting more and more outlandish as time goes on.

Coach was hired to coach. And he coached a horrible - HORRIBLE - team to an 8-8 record before the wheels came off this year and the team couldn't get away with vastly outperforming their talent. I don't understand why "coach who gets his team to overachieve" = horrible.

Personnel? Sure. I'll give you that - to some degree. Was he perfect as a coach with playcalling and schemes? No, but no coach is perfect. Did he get the players to live up to their talent? It's hard to argue that he didn't.

Unless you're sitting back watching Broncos games and thinking, "Gosh, I really wish Brandon Lloyd would live up to his considerable talent that we all know he has. He's just underperforming." "When Kyle Orton was traded, he had such high expectations - he's just not living up to them."

I'm not sure what y'all expect from a head coach, but if you think it's significantly better than what McDaniels did here in Denver given the lack of talent on the field, you are expecting way too much. From anyone.

BroncoWave
01-20-2011, 01:42 PM
I hate what he did to this franchise, but it's not like he killed my best friend or something.

Frankly, I don't hold any ill will toward him, and wish him well.

Just never come to Dove Valley again. tia.

Agreed, all the venom towards him is comical. It's not like he came in here and intentionally tried to do poorly. Yeah he sucked at his job and failed, but there's probably not a poster on this board who hasn't failed at some sort of job in his or her life.

Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 01:45 PM
I expect a coach to do a LOT better than McDaniels did... MUCH MUCH better. If not, they will be gone as well. He didn't put up a good offense, he didn't have a good defense, he didn't put out a good special teams unit. He coudln't get along with players, and he couldn't get along with coaches. McDaniels didn't call a good game, didn't put up good game plans... Got COMPLETELY blown out by division rivals and ripped this team of talent.

Horrible... HORRIBLE coach.

Northman
01-20-2011, 01:45 PM
Certainly McDaniels' personnel decisions were overall pretty poor from what we can tell, although the jury is still out on the drafting, particularly the 2010 draft, which is looking like it could be quite good and full of contributors.

But it's hard to have any conclusions on a draft until about three years, so complaining that he blew two straight drafts is extremely premature. The Alphonso Smith draft swap was unquestionably bad and doesn't the benefit of hindsight to figure that out, but other than that, we just don't know - this next season will be the telltale season for the 2009 class.

But the demonizing of McDaniels is ridiculous. "McDaniels ended the Bailey contract negotiations." "McDaniels ruined the franchise." "McDaniels installed the gameplan for the 1996 playoff game against the Jaguars." "McDaniels convinced Bowlen to sell the naming rights to Mile High." "McDaniels was behind the switch to blue jerseys in 1997." "McDaniels tore Terrell Davis's ACL." "McDaniels ate Peter Forsberg's spleen."

It's like a tall tale that keeps getting more and more outlandish as time goes on.

Coach was hired to coach. And he coached a horrible - HORRIBLE - team to an 8-8 record before the wheels came off this year and the team couldn't get away with vastly outperforming their talent. I don't understand why "coach who gets his team to overachieve" = horrible.

Personnel? Sure. I'll give you that - to some degree. Was he perfect as a coach with playcalling and schemes? No, but no coach is perfect. Did he get the players to live up to their talent? It's hard to argue that he didn't.

Unless you're sitting back watching Broncos games and thinking, "Gosh, I really wish Brandon Lloyd would live up to his considerable talent that we all know he has. He's just underperforming." "When Kyle Orton was traded, he had such high expectations - he's just not living up to them."

I'm not sure what y'all expect from a head coach, but if you think it's significantly better than what McDaniels did here in Denver given the lack of talent on the field, you are expecting way too much. From anyone.


This is the most ridiculous post ive ever read on here. If you cant fathom why McD failed in Denver starting with the deconstruction of the offense to begin with then you will never get the full grasp of his futility which ended in his own character coming into question. Ironically, they overachieved in 09' because of a guy named Nolan who was able to make the defense perform better than it really was. McD didnt do shit. :lol:

Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 01:50 PM
So we are supposed to just say "ahh Shucks, he sure tried hard." No. He made decisions that NO COACH has EVER done when taking over a team. When has any other coach done such a destructive job, in just 2 years on the job? Anyone? If I do a job that is monitored by the public as NFl coaches are, and FAIL at the level McD has failed at, I would expect to get the kind of criticisms that he is getting. I've NEVER seen a coach strip a team as this McDoosh has. Horrendous coach.

Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 01:54 PM
This is the most ridiculous post ive ever read on here. If you cant fathom why McD failed in Denver starting with the deconstruction of the offense to begin with then you will never get the full grasp of his futility which ended in his own character coming into question. Ironically, they overachieved in 09' because of a guy named Nolan who was able to make the defense perform better than it really was. McD didnt do shit. :lol:


and the talent on offense brought over by previous coaches. Look what happened when he started replacing the actual talent this team had when he came in.

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 01:58 PM
Exactly, which makes it Josh's fault but im glad you have admitted the dude screwed up. Kudo's to you. :beer:You and your buddys need to learn about I/O. I give input and ya'll give output that doesn't match. You will never find a post of mine saying mcd never fubar'd.
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Northman
01-20-2011, 02:02 PM
and the talent on offense brought over by previous coaches. Look what happened when he started replacing the actual talent this team had when he came in.


It amazes me how some will defend this guy when he was clearly not ready and was clearly in over his head. I suspect he will do well in St. Louis in the position that he is actually very good at. But he tore this team apart and now we had to go hire a HOF QB and an experienced HC to help right the ship and get some credibility back in the eyes of the fanbase. Watching those players that we let go succeed in other places just burns me up more. This team was well on its way to being something grand before McDoofus put his dirty paws on it. So no, that dirtbag deserves every bit of criticism he receives as far as im concerned.

Cugel
01-20-2011, 02:14 PM
wait!!! so the direction of the team was not clear..expectaions were not spelled out and supposedly we didnt have all the people pulling in the same direction

ummm the expectations was set...we want success, we expected to have him fix the 29th ranked defense and leave the 2nd ranked offense alone...

he spelled it out when he said he would better the team

as for not pulling together...where? bowlen and ellis supported him and let him make crucial personal mistakes from day one...he had total control

if anyone wasnt pulling together with mcd it was the staff wishing to keep talent on the team instead of trading it

he is a dick and i hope he fails miserably

Abso-freaking-lutely! :salute:

He's blaming the organization for HIS failings! Who was it who refused to play Peyton Hillis and then got rid of him for a used condom at the same time his team was sinking to the very BOTTOM of the NFL in rushing?!

Who was it who wanted to draft Alphonso Smith so bad he threw away a 1st round draft pick to get him in the 2nd round -- and then a year later traded him away to Detroit for nothing?

Who was to blame for the way the entire Cutler fiasco went down? Why did he try and trade for Matt Cassel in the first place? Whose brain fart was that?

Was it Brian Xanders who insisted on drafting Knowshon Moreno or Robert Ayers instead of Brian Orakpo or Clay Matthews?

Was it Pat Bowlen who couldn't get along with Mike Nolan and cut him loose?

This ass-hat just can't accept that HE was to blame for the entire mess! HE screwed up and rather than saying: "I made some mistakes during my time in Denver. In retrospect I'd have done things differently, but I learned some valuable lessons for the future" he says essentially "it wasn't my fault! I was placed in a bad situation because of the "lack of direction" in the organization."

What a complete and total ASS-CLOWN! :mad:

Cugel
01-20-2011, 02:18 PM
It amazes me how some will defend this guy when he was clearly not ready and was clearly in over his head. I suspect he will do well in St. Louis in the position that he is actually very good at. But he tore this team apart and now we had to go hire a HOF QB and an experienced HC to help right the ship and get some credibility back in the eyes of the fanbase. Watching those players that we let go succeed in other places just burns me up more. This team was well on its way to being something grand before McDoofus put his dirty paws on it. So no, that dirtbag deserves every bit of criticism he receives as far as im concerned.

There were many times over the last 2 years when I just SERIOUSLY wanted to punch him right in his smug face. I had to stop paying so much attention to the Broncos for a time because I just couldn't STAND the way he was continually screwing things up!

I have NEVER hated anybody associated with the team before him, but I can honestly say that I still harbor a black and implacable HATRED towards Josh McDaniels for what he did to my team! :tsk:

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 02:20 PM
I'm pretty sure that Shanahan is way more respected than McFired will probably EVER be.
Shanahan has a great history with the Denver Broncos. McFired? Not so much.

Read my sig. And........ it's not only Williamsons opinion.
What's respect have to do with anything? Namecalling is namecalling.
I never did that to a past coach. I have with past players..cutnrunr, poorti$$. I just think coaches deserve some civility.....their job is tough enough.
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Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 02:25 PM
There were many times over the last 2 years when I just SERIOUSLY wanted to punch him right in his smug face. I had to stop paying so much attention to the Broncos for a time because I just couldn't STAND the way he was continually screwing things up!

I have NEVER hated anybody associated with the team before him, but I can honestly say that I still harbor a black and implacable HATRED towards Josh McDaniels for what he did to my team! :tsk:

I"ve NEVER had to experience what it was like to completely hate one of our coaches before... SOOOO much so, that I found myself not finishing watching games, or actually "chuckling" when you would watch him FAIL at the expense of the Broncos!

I've Never HATED to watch my team play, or for a second want them to lose just so we could suffer the short time loss for the long-time gain by getting RID of that piece-o-crap. McD made watching my Broncos unenjoyable, and thats something I've NEVER said.

Ravage!!!
01-20-2011, 02:26 PM
It amazes me how some will defend this guy when he was clearly not ready and was clearly in over his head. I suspect he will do well in St. Louis in the position that he is actually very good at. But he tore this team apart and now we had to go hire a HOF QB and an experienced HC to help right the ship and get some credibility back in the eyes of the fanbase. Watching those players that we let go succeed in other places just burns me up more. This team was well on its way to being something grand before McDoofus put his dirty paws on it. So no, that dirtbag deserves every bit of criticism he receives as far as im concerned.

Great post. :beer:

Northman
01-20-2011, 02:26 PM
There were many times over the last 2 years when I just SERIOUSLY wanted to punch him right in his smug face. I had to stop paying so much attention to the Broncos for a time because I just couldn't STAND the way he was continually screwing things up!

I have NEVER hated anybody associated with the team before him, but I can honestly say that I still harbor a black and implacable HATRED towards Josh McDaniels for what he did to my team! :tsk:

Although i understand your position mine isnt really even hate. I dont hate the man per se but i have zero respect for him. Early on even after the Cutler trade, the 6-0 start, and even how the season finished i was willing to give the man a legitimate chance. But then, the wheels started drastically coming off. Nolan left because doofus couldnt let the man do his job, then Hillis was traded because doofus didnt know how to utilize him, and the spygate crap with him trying to sweep it under the rug and hide just solidified his failure to me.

BroncoWave
01-20-2011, 02:30 PM
I've said this before, but anyone who literally "hates" a man they have never met simply because he wasn't good at his job REALLY needs to get a life. People act like he raped their children or something.

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 02:36 PM
When did you guys ever really stop RC?
Stay above my detractors, Tx.
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Northman
01-20-2011, 02:38 PM
I've said this before, but anyone who literally "hates" a man they have never met simply because he wasn't good at his job REALLY needs to get a life. People act like he raped their children or something.


The fact that people hate other people never bothered me. I mean, who gives a shit if someone hates McDaniels? I mean really? How does that affect you as a person? It doesnt bother me any. They can hate who they want for all i care. To this day my dad hates Elway just because he never liked him and know what? I could give a rats ass. :lol:

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 02:41 PM
being smart
capable of working with players and sub coaches
football IQ
multiple years NFL coaching expirience
capable of adaptation
willingness to admit a mistake
subscribe to the notion..talent is needed
doesnt throw players under the bus to the national media
honesty
integrity
willingness to let DC coach the defense...and the OC coach the offense
willingness to put personal feelings for players aside to better the team


basically everything mcd wasnt
No, those are your list of qualifications.
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BroncoNut
01-20-2011, 02:43 PM
The fact that people hate other people never bothered me. I mean, who gives a shit if someone hates McDaniels? I mean really? How does that affect you as a person? It doesnt bother me any. They can hate who they want for all i care. To this day my dad hates Elway just because he never liked him and know what? I could give a rats ass. :lol:

I think that it's the way some people define hatred. I have hatred in my heart for possibly 1 person, yet I try to love that person in some way every day. For example, I hope that that person has an easy winter in Denver and that his Dad's landscaping business in Orange City Iowa does well financially this year

rcsodak
01-20-2011, 02:43 PM
Certainly McDaniels' personnel decisions were overall pretty poor from what we can tell, although the jury is still out on the drafting, particularly the 2010 draft, which is looking like it could be quite good and full of contributors.

But it's hard to have any conclusions on a draft until about three years, so complaining that he blew two straight drafts is extremely premature. The Alphonso Smith draft swap was unquestionably bad and doesn't the benefit of hindsight to figure that out, but other than that, we just don't know - this next season will be the telltale season for the 2009 class.

But the demonizing of McDaniels is ridiculous. "McDaniels ended the Bailey contract negotiations." "McDaniels ruined the franchise." "McDaniels installed the gameplan for the 1996 playoff game against the Jaguars." "McDaniels convinced Bowlen to sell the naming rights to Mile High." "McDaniels was behind the switch to blue jerseys in 1997." "McDaniels tore Terrell Davis's ACL." "McDaniels ate Peter Forsberg's spleen."

It's like a tall tale that keeps getting more and more outlandish as time goes on.

Coach was hired to coach. And he coached a horrible - HORRIBLE - team to an 8-8 record before the wheels came off this year and the team couldn't get away with vastly outperforming their talent. I don't understand why "coach who gets his team to overachieve" = horrible.

Personnel? Sure. I'll give you that - to some degree. Was he perfect as a coach with playcalling and schemes? No, but no coach is perfect. Did he get the players to live up to their talent? It's hard to argue that he didn't.

Unless you're sitting back watching Broncos games and thinking, "Gosh, I really wish Brandon Lloyd would live up to his considerable talent that we all know he has. He's just underperforming." "When Kyle Orton was traded, he had such high expectations - he's just not living up to them."

I'm not sure what y'all expect from a head coach, but if you think it's significantly better than what McDaniels did here in Denver given the lack of talent on the field, you are expecting way too much. From anyone.
Great post.

Prepare for the deluge.......
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TXBRONC
01-20-2011, 02:46 PM
Stay above my detractors, Tx.
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RC as said yourself you continued to make snarky comments about Cutler and verious other players. I don't like to hear those things like taht every time his name is mentioned.

turftoad
01-20-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm not sure what y'all expect from a head coach, but if you think it's significantly better than what McDaniels did here in Denver given the lack of talent on the field, you are expecting way too much. From anyone.

Given the lack of talent?????

He had some of the most talented young guns on offense that many coach's would dream of.
All needed to do was get along with them and draft and aquire some defensive playmakers.

He did it to himself.

GEM
01-20-2011, 02:58 PM
This is the most ridiculous post ive ever read on here. If you cant fathom why McD failed in Denver starting with the deconstruction of the offense to begin with then you will never get the full grasp of his futility which ended in his own character coming into question. Ironically, they overachieved in 09' because of a guy named Nolan who was able to make the defense perform better than it really was. McD didnt do shit. :lol:

Not to mention the starting of a paragraph with a description of ridiculous while ending the same paragraph with McDaniels blew out Davis' ACL. Over exaggerate much? :laugh: He has plenty to be held responsible for, no reason to add more.

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 04:07 PM
You McDaniels apologists can say what you want, claim what you want, but the fact remains:

1.) McDaniels ran off a DC that turned the defense into the #7 ranked in the NFL.

2.) McDaniels traded Seattle a 1st round draft pick for a player that in all liklihood would have been there in the 3rd round, then traded that player the next season for a bag of peanuts to the Lions.

3.) McDaniels GAVE AWAY Peyton Hillis who went on to rush for 1,000 yards on a horrible team, while scoring more TDs than any Denver RB.

4.) McDaniels traded away our franchise QB who is now hosting an NFC Championship game.

5.) McDaniels gave up 4 draft picks to move up and grab Tim Tebow, then didn't give Tebow any reps outside of his wildcat package during practice all season long.

6.) McDaniels benched Marshall in a must-win game.

7.) McDaniels traded away a 4th round draft pick for Maroney, who barely saw the field and looked awful when he did.

8.) McDaniels got caught filming the 49ers walkthrough, embarrassed the franchise, the owner, the fans, then LOST the game.

9.) McDaniels inherited the #2 ranked offense in the NFL and immediately drafted a offense with the 1st round draft pick.

10.) Given that he had the #2 offense in the NFL McDaniels went on to do very little to address it other than running off Mike Nolan, who improved it dramatically, as stated above.

11.) McDaniels changed the offensive line scheme from ZBS to PBS, and the rushing offense sputtered afterwards.

12.) McDaniels allowed the Denver Broncos to lose to the Oakland Raiders, at home, 59-14.

13.) McDaniels got rid of Tony Scheffler, essentially leaving the Broncos with no receiving TE threat.

14.) McDaniels coached the Broncos to their worst season in decades.

The list could go on and on. McDaniels brought embarrassment, shame, and negativity to this franchise from the owner all the way down to the fanbase. In 2 short years he took damn good offense, gutted it, and left us with a mediocre one that can't run the football, he took a horrible defense and actually made it worse, and he got caught cheating by the NFL and then threw his long-time friend under the bus for it.

How anyone can defend this clown is beyond me. Perhaps you guys should think about watching some St. Louis games to get your fix. If someone were going to destroy a franchise they simply need to study what Josh accomplished here, he was SO bad, SO horrendous, it brings to question if this was an act of incompetence of an act of sabatoge.

slim
01-20-2011, 04:15 PM
How anyone can defend this clown is beyond me. Perhaps you guys should think about watching some St. Louis games to get your fix. If someone were going to destroy a franchise they simply need to study what Josh accomplished here, he was SO bad, SO horrendous, it brings to question if this was an act of incompetence of an act of sabatoge.

This question has already been answered.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204725

BroncoStud
01-20-2011, 04:56 PM
This question has already been answered.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204725

Damn, HotCarl already proved it!