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TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 07:58 AM
Q&A: Broncos shouldn't count on Orton trade to improve their draft status
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 01/18/2011 01:00:00 AM MST

Q: Assuming the Broncos switch back to a 4-3 defense, how do you see them drafting this year? Do they stick with the No. 2 pick or trade down? If they can trade quarterback Kyle Orton for, say, a second-round pick, is rebuilding the defense with one draft possible? There seems to be pretty good defensive backs and interior linemen available in the second round.


A: John Elway, the executive vice president of football operations, has made it sound like the Broncos need to go with Tim Tebow as their starting quarterback. An informal survey I did of some NFL personnel people indicates the Broncos would have difficulty getting a high draft pick for Orton because most teams believe the Broncos aren't going to keep him.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17120991

Orton could possibly net a 2nd round pick but it would take the right set of circumstances to do that. However, I think he is worth at least a mid round pick and any team is only offer less than they should tell to jump off a cliff in nice way. :D

Dirk
01-18-2011, 08:01 AM
If Kyle can handle being the #2 QB on the team, keep him. He would be more than a solid backup. If he wants to go somewhere else so he can start, then trade him and get maximum value if possible. I'm thinking a low 2nd or a 3rd and 4th.

chazoe60
01-18-2011, 08:06 AM
I've been saying all along Kyle is worth about a 4th round pick. A 3rd if a team is really desperate. I don't see anyway we get a 2nd, that's just dreaming right there.

People know he's on the way out and that always devalues a player. Also, he's simply not worth a second round pick and NFL people know that.

Juriga72
01-18-2011, 08:12 AM
What a bad year not to have Josh McDainels to trade with... we could get 2-1st and 17 2nd round picks for the future HOF Orton...

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 09:04 AM
Mewonders if any of the" NFL personnel people" he spoke with are with teams that are in need of Kyles services.... :coffee:
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TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 09:10 AM
If Kyle can handle being the #2 QB on the team, keep him. He would be more than a solid backup. If he wants to go somewhere else so he can start, then trade him and get maximum value if possible. I'm thinking a low 2nd or a 3rd and 4th.

If he gets shopped other teams will have leverage because they know exactly why he would be getting shopped. He might be worth a 2nd pick but I don't think will get that high of pick for him.

NameUsedBefore
01-18-2011, 09:17 AM
His worth could be as high as a second because there are a lot of teams that would automatically upgrade their QB position by getting Orton.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 09:23 AM
His worth could be as high as a second because there are a lot of teams that would automatically upgrade their QB position by getting Orton.

I agree he would be an upgrade for some teams but they will probably that part of the deal that brought him to Denver was us giving up a 5th round pick.

Agent of Orange
01-18-2011, 09:23 AM
I think they can get a 2nd for him. Surveying GMs is like asking a bunch of old men whether gas costs too much. Sure, they like to grumble about how expensive things are but in the end, they buy it because they need it.

Kyle Orton is one of the better veteran QBs available and teams that would be interested, would be interested because they need a QB.

Dirk
01-18-2011, 09:34 AM
I think they can get a 2nd for him. Surveying GMs is like asking a bunch of old men whether gas costs too much. Sure, they like to grumble about how expensive things are but in the end, they buy it because they need it.

Kyle Orton is one of the better veteran QBs available and teams that would be interested, would be interested because they need a QB.

:lol: Nice!

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 09:35 AM
DEN needs to work a deal with a team to trade Orton for a current starting calibur player.
SF has 2 really solid Free Safeties in Dashon Goldson and Reggie Smith.
SF also has Taylor Mays just sitting there. They are overloaded at one position, and need a veteran QB.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 09:40 AM
DEN needs to work a deal with a team to trade Orton for a current starting calibur player.
SF has 2 really solid Free Safeties in Dashon Goldson and Reggie Smith.
SF also has Taylor Mays just sitting there. They are overloaded at one position, and need a veteran QB.

I think I would rather have a draft pick but if they got a quality young player I could live with that.

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 09:48 AM
I think I would rather have a draft pick but if they got a quality young player I could live with that.

I am just sayin that there are other options than a draft pick, and it might make good sense to just get a starting calibur player for Orton and be done with it.
This team needs help desperately, and while a draft pick would be nice cause it allows us to come up with endless scenarios as to who that pick would be used on, Fox and Co might like having a player that has NFL experience and some success under his belt a bit more right now.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 09:51 AM
I am just sayin that there are other options than a draft pick, and it might make good sense to just get a starting caliber player for Orton and be done with it.
This team needs help desperately, and while a draft pick would be nice cause it allows us to come up with endless scenarios as to who that pick would be used on, Fox and Co might like having a player that has NFL experience and some success under his belt a bit more right now.

I'm poo pooing what you said. I agree if you get a young player that's tantamount to a draft pick.

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 10:07 AM
I'm poo pooing what you said. I agree if you get a young player that's tantamount to a draft pick.

"Poo pooing". I will use that one somehow today!! :D

UnderArmour
01-18-2011, 10:14 AM
Sage Rosenfels went for a 3rd to the Vikings a few years back so I expect AT LEAST that much for Orton. IMO, I think we'll get something more along the lines of 2 Thirds and a Fifth/Six which in all honesty, I would rather have than a second. The draft is a gamble no matter where you pick and given the Broncos track record, we seem to do better with 3rd round picks than 2nd rounders.

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:18 AM
I am just sayin that there are other options than a draft pick, and it might make good sense to just get a starting calibur player for Orton and be done with it.
This team needs help desperately, and while a draft pick would be nice cause it allows us to come up with endless scenarios as to who that pick would be used on, Fox and Co might like having a player that has NFL experience and some success under his belt a bit more right now.If they want to go that route, Carolina might work. Rivera knows what he'd get with Kyle and Fox might have a player he thinks can help. Hmmmmmm....
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rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:20 AM
"Poo pooing". I will use that one somehow today!! :Djust don't use it around clay. :eek:
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SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 10:21 AM
If they want to go that route, Carolina might work. Rivera knows what he'd get with Kyle and Fox might have a player he thinks can help. Hmmmmmm....
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http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/48639/D-Will_scores_against_Bucs.jpg

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:27 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/48639/D-Will_scores_against_Bucs.jpg
Ok, socol, call em up. Kyle is definitely an upgrade over moore/clausson.
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SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 10:45 AM
Ok, socol, call em up. Kyle is definitely an upgrade over moore/clausson.
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Done.

Dee, as DeAngelo likes to be called, will be arriving at DEN INTL at 2 PM today. Please have your driver waiting for his arrival.
Thanks.


Also, if you could stop by Ortons crib and let him know hes been dealt, that would be great.

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:59 AM
Done.

Dee, as DeAngelo likes to be called, will be arriving at DEN INTL at 2 PM today. Please have your driver waiting for his arrival.
Thanks.


Also, if you could stop by Ortons crib and let him know hes been dealt, that would be great.
Can I just text him? I hate giving bad news.
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BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 11:28 AM
Get er' done John, send Orton packing. Maybe the Bears need a backup.

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 11:30 AM
Can I just text him? I hate giving bad news.
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If you have your driver pick up this....
http://local.content.compendiumblog.com/uploads/user/851c0ba1-a380-102a-ac6d-e4aebca50425/1fa55b41-a383-102a-ac6d-e4aebca50425/Jack%20Daniels%20Collectors%20Edition%20Gift%20Set .JPG
....Shouldnt be a problem.
Thats how they got him outta CHI.

red98
01-18-2011, 11:32 AM
New Broncos coach John Fox says he’s a long way off from choosing a starting quarterback for 2011, and he wants to get a first-hand look at Tim Tebow and Kyle Orton on the practice field before he makes any decisions about which one is leading his team.

“Just like any position, they’ll compete and we’ll go from there,” Fox said of his quarterbacks in an interview on the Dan Patrick Show. “It’s too early for me to say. . . . I’m going to evaluate guys on grass and we’ll have to see when we get those opportunities.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/18/john-fox-wont-commit-to-a-quarterback-or-champ-bailey/

I sure hope this is just talk to increase Orton's trade value.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 11:39 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/18/john-fox-wont-commit-to-a-quarterback-or-champ-bailey/

I sure hope this is just talk to increase Orton's trade value.

John Fox would be committing coaching suicide to trot Orton's carcus onto the field as the starter next season. It's coach-talk. The boos that would rain down would be immediate and LOUD.

This is Tebow's team now, Orton is a goner.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-18-2011, 11:49 AM
John Fox would be committing coaching suicide to trot Orton's carcus onto the field as the starter next season. It's coach-talk. The boos that would rain down would be immediate and LOUD.

This is Tebow's team now, Orton is a goner.

The problem is, I have zero doubt that Orton will beat Tebow out in a practice environment where he doesn't have to do anything but stand there and throw the ball in 7 on 7 drills. Orton should win that type of competition 8 out of 10 times because that's his game... stand there and throw the ball with no pressure in his face.

It won't be 'till the first game when the bullets start flying and Orton is facing a real pass rush (not wearing an orange no-contact practice jersey) and Fox watches him throw the ball in the dirt or start taking phantom "fainting goat" sacks on 3rd down that he'll start asking himself, "what have I done? We could've traded that guy and got something for him!"

I really hope Fox is just saying this to keep Orton's value up. Orton is that car that looks nice in the showroom but under performs on the track. Hopefully, Fox figures that out before we go into next season with Kyle as our starter...

Juriga72
01-18-2011, 11:54 AM
If they want to go that route, Carolina might work. Rivera knows what he'd get with Kyle and Fox might have a player he thinks can help. Hmmmmmm....
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VERY true... Rivera would know exactly what he'd get in Kyle. A guy who folds at the least bit of pressure....

AS the Chargers D-coord... Rivera saw Kyle go a combined 57/96 3 td 2 int

in three games with a 1-2 record...... I think he saw enough

dogfish
01-18-2011, 12:44 PM
I've been saying all along Kyle is worth about a 4th round pick. A 3rd if a team is really desperate. I don't see anyway we get a 2nd, that's just dreaming right there.

People know he's on the way out and that always devalues a player. Also, he's simply not worth a second round pick and NFL people know that.

did NFL people know how much charlie whitehurst was worth?

Northman
01-18-2011, 12:46 PM
Although i think Denver has asked for a 2nd round pick for Orton i seriously doubt they will get one.

Northman
01-18-2011, 12:47 PM
did NFL people know how much charlie whitehurst was worth?

Whitehurst was never worth what was given up. Seattle got raped.

BroncoWave
01-18-2011, 12:56 PM
Whitehurst was never worth what was given up. Seattle got raped.

It just proves that it only takes one team to like a guy to get good value for him. If the Seahawks will give up a 2nd for Whitehurst, someone will give up a 2nd for Orton. There are just too many teams who need QBs.

Northman
01-18-2011, 01:17 PM
It just proves that it only takes one team to like a guy to get good value for him. If the Seahawks will give up a 2nd for Whitehurst, someone will give up a 2nd for Orton. There are just too many teams who need QBs.

We can only hope someone will be that stupid.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 01:30 PM
We can only hope someone will be that stupid.

Maybe some team will be foolish enough to do that, but I don't think it is very likely to happen.

chazoe60
01-18-2011, 01:34 PM
did NFL people know how much charlie whitehurst was worth?

Yes, that's why it took a college guy to give up that much to get him. :D

JaxBroncoGirl
01-18-2011, 02:28 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/18/john-fox-wont-commit-to-a-quarterback-or-champ-bailey/

I sure hope this is just talk to increase Orton's trade value.

Without knowing much about Fox, I am going out on a limb here and say he has already been told by the coaching staff and the owner what value Tim brought to the team in the last 3 games. If Foxy has the Moxy then he is setting up Ortons trade value. I am sure Stud has already told the new coach about Tebows work ethic. It will not take too long for Fox to figure out that Orton is not very happy along with a small chip on his shoulder.

Northman
01-18-2011, 02:39 PM
Without knowing much about Fox, I am going out on a limb here and say he has already been told by the coaching staff and the owner what value Tim brought to the team in the last 3 games. If Foxy has the Moxy then he is setting up Ortons trade value. I am sure Stud has already told the new coach about Tebows work ethic. It will not take too long for Fox to figure out that Orton is not very happy along with a small chip on his shoulder.

Indeed, if Orton got pissed because he was benched in a fruitless year where Tebow needed some experience than i dont want him here.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 02:51 PM
Without knowing much about Fox, I am going out on a limb here and say he has already been told by the coaching staff and the owner what value Tim brought to the team in the last 3 games. If Foxy has the Moxy then he is setting up Ortons trade value. I am sure Stud has already told the new coach about Tebows work ethic. It will not take too long for Fox to figure out that Orton is not very happy along with a small chip on his shoulder.

There is a thread around here somewhere that said that Fox met Tebow before he was drafted last year they even had dinner together.

I bet that Fox has already been told about the situation. At any rate if the Broncos can't get good value for him then they ought hold onto him for this year. Orton wouldn't like and can understand why but he live with and not be a troublemaker.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 02:56 PM
There is a thread around here somewhere that said that Fox met Tebow before he was drafted last year they even had dinner together.

I bet that Fox has already been told about the situation. At any rate if the Broncos can't get good value for him then they ought hold onto him for this year. Orton wouldn't like and can understand why but he live with and not be a troublemaker.

Disagree. With every incompletion and every interception Tebow will endure as a young QB, Orton will be sitting there smiling and waiting. Orton has shown me, at least, that he isn't a QB who is going to help develop the young guys. His quotes over the last 2 months have been less then amicable.

If Denver can get a 6th rounder for Orton they need to send him packing. He has no place here, to me he is a blatant reminder of the idiocy of Josh McDaniels and he never should have been a Denver QB. Get something for him, we need the picks this year because of the trade for Tebow last year, get 2 mid-late round picks for Orton and call it good.

We need to stockpile defensive talent this draft.

BORDERLINE
01-18-2011, 02:58 PM
the teams that would have gave us a 2nd, 3rd don't have those picks to give us.

Miami gave us there 2nd for Brandon M.

Minny gave there 3rd for Moss

so San Fran and Carolina are all that is left, if they choose Orton they can battle it out and we might end up getting a better pick.

but if one of them declines then we are most likely going to get a 4th to whoever offers it before or during the draft

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 03:01 PM
the teams that would have gave us a 2nd, 3rd don't have those picks to give us.

Miami gave us there 2nd for Brandon M.

Minny gave there 3rd for Moss

so San Fran and Carolina are all that is left, if they choose Orton they can battle it out and we might end up getting a better pick.

but if one of them declines then we are most likely going to get a 4th to whoever offers it before or during the draft

And neither one of those teams will want to use mid round draft picks considering they will more than likely need those picks to try to move up and get Luck the following draft.

SF needs a QB now. Harbaugh i could see working a player for player trade
for Orton.

JaxBroncoGirl
01-18-2011, 03:41 PM
It would not surprise me at all if the Jacksonville Jaguars try to get Orton as a backup. Garrard is not a leader on the field and had to have hand surgery at the end of this year. They did not have a good back up signed, so they found some guy retired from the NFL on a tractor in a corn field and hired him to be the backup.

BORDERLINE
01-18-2011, 03:42 PM
And neither one of those teams will want to use mid round draft picks considering they will more than likely need those picks to try to move up and get Luck the following draft.

SF needs a QB now. Harbaugh i could see working a player for player trade
for Orton.

like someone said on here,

we can get one of there safety's

I wouldn't mind there D.E Lawson

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 04:29 PM
Disagree. With every incompletion and every interception Tebow will endure as a young QB, Orton will be sitting there smiling and waiting. Orton has shown me, at least, that he isn't a QB who is going to help develop the young guys. His quotes over the last 2 months have been less then amicable.

If Denver can get a 6th rounder for Orton they need to send him packing. He has no place here, to me he is a blatant reminder of the idiocy of Josh McDaniels and he never should have been a Denver QB. Get something for him, we need the picks this year because of the trade for Tebow last year, get 2 mid-late round picks for Orton and call it good.

We need to stockpile defensive talent this draft.

Ok so lets just Orton sticks around for this year and he's no help to Tebow. I can live with that because that responsibility will fall on the shoulders of McCoy and Gase.

I know we need to stockpile but stockpiling 6th rounders wont get the job done.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 04:32 PM
It would not surprise me at all if the Jacksonville Jaguars try to get Orton as a backup. Garrard is not a leader on the field and had to have hand surgery at the end of this year. They did not have a good back up signed, so they found some guy retired from the NFL on a tractor in a corn field and hired him to be the backup.

Jax my guess is that the Jaguars probably wouldn't want to give up to attain Orton. I bet they wouldn't want to give up a mid round pick for Orton just to back Garrard. Then again stranger things have happened in the NFL.

Juriga72
01-18-2011, 04:36 PM
We can only hope someone will be that stupid.

I dont know..... Whitehurst DID do something that Orton could never do....

Win a "Must game" against another team who had to win its "Must game"...

BroncoJoe
01-18-2011, 04:49 PM
Unfortunately, Orton probably isn't going anywhere prior to the draft, unless a miracle happens. No trades before the new CBA people. Ain't gonna happen before the draft.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 04:53 PM
I dont know..... Whitehurst DID do something that Orton could never do....

Win a "Must game" against another team who had to win its "Must game"...

Whitehurst has a lot more upside than Orton does. Orton is too limited in what he can do.

Juriga72
01-18-2011, 05:13 PM
Whitehurst has a lot more upside than Orton does. Orton is too limited in what he can do.

IF you have a great defense, a great running game, AND a great O-line.....

Kyle's you guy... but then would you WANT him?

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 06:18 PM
IF you have a great defense, a great running game, AND a great O-line.....

Kyle's you guy... but then would you WANT him?

Even with all that you have to put him in Shotgun and give him 4-5 WRs to succeed. He can't drop back in a traditional offense full-time. He's more of a gimmick-QB than Tebow is. At least Tebow has the arm to take a 7 step drop.

Could you imagine Orton in Martz's offense this year, battling the Chicago wind and cold having to take 7 step drops like Cutler does? It would be the most horrific scene since police opened Ed Gein's cellar door.

Cugel
01-18-2011, 07:01 PM
I think they can get a 2nd for him. Surveying GMs is like asking a bunch of old men whether gas costs too much. Sure, they like to grumble about how expensive things are but in the end, they buy it because they need it.

Kyle Orton is one of the better veteran QBs available and teams that would be interested, would be interested because they need a QB.

I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense! :coffee: It's ALL about LEVERAGE -- and the Broncos have NONE! That's what they're saying.

Those NFL GMs are telling the truth. Orton has stated PUBLICLY that "if" he returns to the Broncos he expects to be the starter! Now, how exactly does that fit in with Tebow being the starter? :coffee:

The Broncos COULD just tell Orton to sit on the bench and shut the hell up, but he'd be a VERY unhappy camper and that would spread dissension on the team. What happens when (not IF) Tebow struggles? Is there a QB controversy? Does Orton sit quietly or does he start lobbying to get his old job back?

Add in the fact that the Broncos are paying him a STARTERS' salary. Orton is due $6.9 million in salary, PLUS a $1.5 million roster bonus! And he's a FA at the end of this year!

Does ANYBODY really think the Broncos are going to pay him $8.4 million to sit on the bench this year? :coffee:

I didn't think so. A backup QB is at MOST worth $2 million! NOT $8.4 million! At that salary Orton would be the MOST OVERPAID player in the league outside of Albert Haynesworth.

All Orton has to do is sit there and demand to be traded. The Broncos HAVE to get rid of him by trade or else CUT him in order to avoid the massive cap hit of keeping him!

And the other teams all know this. :coffee:

They can just sit back and either offer some late round pick or else simply wait for the Broncos to give up and cut Orton, thereby signing him as a FA. That is likely to happen sooner rather than later so that the Broncos can avoid the $1.5 million roster bonus for a player they don't intend to keep. They could try and force some team to pay the roster bonus, but what if the teams just said "no" called the Broncos bluff, and waited for them to cut Orton sometime before the season?

Then the Broncos would be stuck paying that $1.5 million roster bonus for nothing!

In fact, looking at Orton's price tag, I just don't see how the Broncos can get anything substantial for him at all because everybody in the league knows the team can't afford to keep him. McDaniels screwed us over once again! :coffee:

EDIT: In fact, even if the Broncos CUT Orton, or trade him, he's STILL going to cost them a $2.879 million cap hit for the guaranteed portion of his salary. If we get stuck with the $1.5 million roster bonus, then just getting RID of Orton will cost the Broncos a minimum of $4.379 million! :eek:

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 07:19 PM
I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense! :coffee: It's ALL about LEVERAGE -- and the Broncos have NONE! That's what they're saying.

Those NFL GMs are telling the truth. Orton has stated PUBLICLY that "if" he returns to the Broncos he expects to be the starter! Now, how exactly does that fit in with Tebow being the starter? :coffee:

The Broncos COULD just tell Orton to sit on the bench and shut the hell up, but he'd be a VERY unhappy camper and that would spread dissension on the team. What happens when (not IF) Tebow struggles? Is there a QB controversy? Does Orton sit quietly or does he start lobbying to get his old job back?

Add in the fact that the Broncos are paying him a STARTERS' salary. Orton is due $6.9 million in salary, PLUS a $1.5 million roster bonus! And he's a FA at the end of this year!

Does ANYBODY really think the Broncos are going to pay him $8.4 million to sit on the bench this year? :coffee:

I didn't think so. All Orton has to do is sit there and demand to be traded. The Broncos HAVE to get rid of him by trade or else CUT him in order to avoid the massive cap hit of keeping him!

Other teams know this. Hence, they can sit back and either offer some late round pick or else simply wait for the Broncos to give up and cut Orton, thereby signing him as a FA. That is likely to happen sooner rather than later so that the Broncos can avoid the $1.5 million roster bonus for a player they don't intend to keep. They could try and force some team to pay the roster bonus, but what if the teams just said "no" called the Broncos bluff, and waited for them to cut Orton sometime before the season?

In fact, looking at the price tag, I just don't see how the Broncos can get anything substantial for Orton at all because everybody in the league knows they can't afford to keep him. McDaniels screwed us over once again! :coffee:

I doubt the Broncos will cut Orton with nothing to show for it. I could see that happening with McDaniels in charge but I don't think it will happen now. And from what I've heard his salary isn't that burdensome. IIRC the guaranteed portion is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.1 million.

Dzone
01-18-2011, 08:44 PM
For a guy who can start at the most important position on the team? Oh a 2nd should be a possiblility if there is someone dumb enough to trade the pick for Orton

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 08:49 PM
For a guy who can start at the most important position on the team? Oh a 2nd should be a possiblility if there is someone dumb enough to trade the pick for Orton

There isn't a lot about the NFL that surprises me but I would be a little surprised if we did get a 2nd round pick for Orton if he's traded.

Medford Bronco
01-18-2011, 08:49 PM
If they want to go that route, Carolina might work. Rivera knows what he'd get with Kyle and Fox might have a player he thinks can help. Hmmmmmm....
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he is an upgrate over that stiff Clausen.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 08:51 PM
he is an upgrate over that stiff Clausen.

I'm not so sure. :heh:

Northman
01-18-2011, 08:54 PM
I dont know..... Whitehurst DID do something that Orton could never do....

Win a "Must game" against another team who had to win its "Must game"...


Oh ouch. :lol:

Although, in 08' we faced a similiar problem with Cutler vs Rivers but i really dont want to go there.

Dzone
01-18-2011, 08:56 PM
he is an upgrate over that stiff Clausen.
Mel Kiper hasnt loved a QB so much since RyaN Leaf :lol:

JaxBroncoGirl
01-18-2011, 09:00 PM
Jax my guess is that the Jaguars probably wouldn't want to give up to attain Orton. I bet they wouldn't want to give up a mid round pick for Orton just to back Garrard. Then again stranger things have happened in the NFL.

The funny thing is the Jaguars never showed any interest in Tebow, not even from a marketing stand point. It is really sad that the Jaguars organization never fully grasped the upside in drafting Tebow. The thing with the Jaguars is everyone here is calling for Del Rio and Garrard to get out of town. Garrard has crohns (s)? disease, getting older and he is not a top tier QB along with having major problems coming off as a leader. The Jaguars either need a new QB or a top tier backup that can grow into the franchise QB. I would not be surprised if the Jaguars felt that Orton would be a good fit. You realize the Jags always run, run, throw, punt; run, run, run, throw, punt the offense is very predictable. I really think the Jaguars would think that Orton would be a good fit.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 09:03 PM
The funny thing is the Jaguars never showed any interest in Tebow, not even from a marketing stand point. It is really sad that the Jaguars organization never fully grasped the upside in drafting Tebow. The thing with the Jaguars is everyone here is calling for Del Rio and Garrard to get out of town. Garrard has crohn's (s)? disease, getting older and he is not a top tier QB along with having major problems coming off as a leader. The Jaguars either need a new QB or a top tier backup that can grow into the franchise QB. I would not be surprised if the Jaguars felt that Orton would be a good fit. You realize the Jags always run, run, throw, punt; run, run, run, throw, punt the offense is very predictable. I really think the Jaguars would think that Orton would be a good fit.

If they want more of same who am I deny them a second quarterback with a lack of leadership skills?

Northman
01-18-2011, 09:04 PM
The funny thing is the Jaguars never showed any interest in Tebow, not even from a marketing stand point. It is really sad that the Jaguars organization never fully grasped the upside in drafting Tebow. The thing with the Jaguars is everyone here is calling for Del Rio and Garrard to get out of town. Garrard has crohns (s)? disease, getting older and he is not a top tier QB along with having major problems coming off as a leader. The Jaguars either need a new QB or a top tier backup that can grow into the franchise QB. I would not be surprised if the Jaguars felt that Orton would be a good fit. You realize the Jags always run, run, throw, punt; run, run, run, throw, punt the offense is very predictable. I really think the Jaguars would think that Orton would be a good fit.

Still to early to decide of whether or not they screwed up by not taking Tebow but in a year where its very QB heavy in the draft Jax would be moron's not to pull the trigger on one of those guys.

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:28 PM
VERY true... Rivera would know exactly what he'd get in Kyle. A guy who folds at the least bit of pressure....

AS the Chargers D-coord... Rivera saw Kyle go a combined 57/96 3 td 2 int

in three games with a 1-2 record...... I think he saw enough

Yea...never mind the #1 Defense he was playing against...or the #32 rushing offense he was playing with.

You're right.

:rolleyes:

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:38 PM
IF you have a great defense, a great running game, AND a great O-line.....

Kyle's you guy... but then would you WANT him?

Funny, but I'll listen to the guys that actually PLAYED/COACHED in the NFL that have said Orton is a good QB, were mentioning his name as league MVP during the season, and saying he will get a shot at starting somewhere in 2011.

But feel free to continue with your jaded remarks of one of the guys on the team who actually did good this year. Humor is good medicine. :coffee:

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:43 PM
I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense! :coffee: It's ALL about LEVERAGE -- and the Broncos have NONE! That's what they're saying.

Those NFL GMs are telling the truth. Orton has stated PUBLICLY that "if" he returns to the Broncos he expects to be the starter! Now, how exactly does that fit in with Tebow being the starter? :coffee:
Seems some people thought that McD benching Marshall would hurt his worth, also...... OOOPS! It didn't.
Denver DOES have some leverage, because if they do just release him, then a team that needed/wanted him most might not get him, Versus trading for him and his VERY small starting QB salary.


The Broncos COULD just tell Orton to sit on the bench and shut the hell up, but he'd be a VERY unhappy camper and that would spread dissension on the team. What happens when (not IF) Tebow struggles? Is there a QB controversy? Does Orton sit quietly or does he start lobbying to get his old job back?

Add in the fact that the Broncos are paying him a STARTERS' salary. Orton is due $6.9 million in salary, PLUS a $1.5 million roster bonus! And he's a FA at the end of this year!

Does ANYBODY really think the Broncos are going to pay him $8.4 million to sit on the bench this year? :coffee:

I didn't think so. A backup QB is at MOST worth $2 million! NOT $8.4 million! At that salary Orton would be the MOST OVERPAID player in the league outside of Albert Haynesworth.

All Orton has to do is sit there and demand to be traded. The Broncos HAVE to get rid of him by trade or else CUT him in order to avoid the massive cap hit of keeping him!

And the other teams all know this. :coffee:

They can just sit back and either offer some late round pick or else simply wait for the Broncos to give up and cut Orton, thereby signing him as a FA. That is likely to happen sooner rather than later so that the Broncos can avoid the $1.5 million roster bonus for a player they don't intend to keep. They could try and force some team to pay the roster bonus, but what if the teams just said "no" called the Broncos bluff, and waited for them to cut Orton sometime before the season?

Then the Broncos would be stuck paying that $1.5 million roster bonus for nothing!

In fact, looking at Orton's price tag, I just don't see how the Broncos can get anything substantial for him at all because everybody in the league knows the team can't afford to keep him. McDaniels screwed us over once again! :coffee:

EDIT: In fact, even if the Broncos CUT Orton, or trade him, he's STILL going to cost them a $2.879 million cap hit for the guaranteed portion of his salary. If we get stuck with the $1.5 million roster bonus, then just getting RID of Orton will cost the Broncos a minimum of $4.379 million! :eek:

cap?
roster bonus date?
guaranteed salary start date?

PAINTERDAVE
01-18-2011, 10:49 PM
It just proves that it only takes one team to like a guy to get good value for him. If the Seahawks will give up a 2nd for Whitehurst, someone will give up a 2nd for Orton. There are just too many teams who need QBs.

This is the truth.

Immediatly after the CBA is signed...
the teams that want Orton will bid against each other...

there will be no time to lose...
camp will be over...
preseason might be as short as two games...

the new team will want Orton RIGHT NOW.

WE will have no time to jack around with a QB controversy, either.

And IF... IF.. we were to keep and play Orton..
then we end the season with a free agent Starting QB...
Then Orton would walk for free...
after Tebow has ridden the bench getting no experience again.
That puts us into 2012 in much the same place as we are now.

THIS is the rebuilding season 2011... with Tebow getting experience...
2012 is the "we are gonna kick your ass" season.

Or... worst case scenario... the "we gotta get rid of Tebow" year.
But we gotta find out NOW

Orton will go do his thing somewhere else... mark my words.

TXBRONC
01-18-2011, 11:01 PM
This is the truth.

Immediatly after the CBA is signed...
the teams that want Orton will bid against each other...

there will be no time to lose...
camp will be over...
preseason might be as short as two games...

the new team will want Orton RIGHT NOW.

WE will have no time to jack around with a QB controversy, either.

And IF... IF.. we were to keep and play Orton..
then we end the season with a free agent Starting QB...
Then Orton would walk for free...
after Tebow has ridden the bench getting no experience again.
That puts us into 2012 in much the same place as we are now.

THIS is the rebuilding season 2011... with Tebow getting experience...
2012 is the "we are gonna kick your ass" season.

Or... worst case scenario... the "we gotta get rid of Tebow" year.
But we gotta find out NOW

Orton will go do his thing somewhere else... mark my words.

I don't know Dave. I don't think most teams will want to risk compromising themselves like. To try and bring in a quarterback just two weeks before the season starts is just asking for a disaster. It would also compromise the Broncos because they would then be without a solid back up quarterback with just two weeks before the start of the season.

GEM
01-18-2011, 11:28 PM
Funny, but I'll listen to the guys that actually PLAYED/COACHED in the NFL that have said Orton is a good QB, were mentioning his name as league MVP during the season, and saying he will get a shot at starting somewhere in 2011.

But feel free to continue with your jaded remarks of one of the guys on the team who actually did good this year. Humor is good medicine. :coffee:

Please show me where one of those guys mentioned Orton as an MVP. I heard he is a decent journeyman who in the right system flourished. I heard he's a good qb who had some nice passing yardage. But NO WHERE did I see a single person in the press name him an MVP candidate.

Agent of Orange
01-18-2011, 11:31 PM
Please show me where one of those guys mentioned Orton as an MVP. I heard he is a decent journeyman who in the right system flourished. I heard he's a good qb who had some nice passing yardage. But NO WHERE did I see a single person in the press name him an MVP candidate.

It's the infamous "they". And, though you've tried to pin him down, he won't likely respond. However, this won't stop him from bringing up "they" in the future.

GEM
01-18-2011, 11:34 PM
It's the infamous "they". And, though you've tried to pin him down, he won't likely respond. However, this won't stop him from bringing up "they" in the future.

It wouldn't surprise me if a Bleacher Report gets posted....

PAINTERDAVE
01-19-2011, 12:33 AM
I don't know Dave. I don't think most teams will want to risk compromising themselves like. To try and bring in a quarterback just two weeks before the season starts is just asking for a disaster. It would also compromise the Broncos because they would then be without a solid back up quarterback with just two weeks before the start of the season.

I see your point... but..

I think it is still a rebuilding year either way...
Orton aint gonna take us to the Super Bowl this season.
Kyle is a free agent and walks after this...
I see no possibility that we sign him to a multi million dollar contract.

So.. however it works.. we gotta bite the bullet here and play the first round pick...
backed up by another first round pick.

I think even the Ortonites would agree that Orton on the bench
behind Tebow is not gonna be a good thing...

Orton has showed ZERO "mentoring" ability..
and he has a major attitude problem going....
evidenced by his expectation to BE the starter without competing for it.

I wish Kyle the best... I just dont think his best is gonna be here.

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 07:44 AM
Please show me where one of those guys mentioned Orton as an MVP. I heard he is a decent journeyman who in the right system flourished. I heard he's a good qb who had some nice passing yardage. But NO WHERE did I see a single person in the press name him an MVP candidate.

Early in the season when Orton was lighting it up some pundint I honestly don't remember who mentioned Orton as potential League MVP. But I blew it because as early in the season as prediction came I way to soon put him that kind running. It was probably Michael Lombardi who said it.

Juriga72
01-19-2011, 08:20 AM
Yea...never mind the #1 Defense he was playing against...or the #32 rushing offense he was playing with.

You're right.

:rolleyes:

You mean that #1 defense that went 8-8 this year? Losing to:
Seattle
Oakland-2x

Oh and that "Powerhouse" Bungal team from Cincy.... You know THEY went 4-12 also this year...

Funny thing is...... Tebow against the very same defense ( You know #1 and all that) oh and the #32 rushing game also threw 2 touchdowns in one game against them... Hmmmmmmmm

You would think that a "HOF" qb like Orton would do better than a guy in his third ever start.

:confused:

Juriga72
01-19-2011, 08:23 AM
Funny, but I'll listen to the guys that actually PLAYED/COACHED in the NFL that have said Orton is a good QB, were mentioning his name as league MVP during the season, and saying he will get a shot at starting somewhere in 2011.

But feel free to continue with your jaded remarks of one of the guys on the team who actually did good this year. Humor is good medicine. :coffee:

"Did good this year"????

WHEN? When he was losing 8 straight weeks? When he ended games with picks? When he trips over the 30 yard line? When he slid 2 yards short of the first down? When he "Led" us to a top 5 in punts total?


WHEN..... did he do well? Oh I know when he did well... The day he was named to the 2010 Pro Bowl!!!! Because thats when people from everywhere BUT Denver tell you "Who did good this year"....Sadly... only in Denver do some people believe that yards > wins

CoachChaz
01-19-2011, 08:56 AM
Not that it's worth anything, but there are quite a few fans of other teams needing a QB that would love to have Orton. I was speaking with 2 very realistic and intelligent SF fans the other day and they would be okay with giving up a 2nd or 3rd for Orton. Again...it means nothing other than the fact that fans of teams OTHER than the Broncos see Orton's abilities and also understand the reality that, regardless of the fact that Locker, Mallett and Gabbert are solid (not great) prospects...they also canr be expected to start from day one. A veteran to keep the seat warm is a necessity

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 09:21 AM
I see your point... but..

I think it is still a rebuilding year either way...
Orton aint gonna take us to the Super Bowl this season.
Kyle is a free agent and walks after this...
I see no possibility that we sign him to a multi million dollar contract.

So.. however it works.. we gotta bite the bullet here and play the first round pick...
backed up by another first round pick.

I think even the Ortonites would agree that Orton on the bench
behind Tebow is not gonna be a good thing...

Orton has showed ZERO "mentoring" ability..
and he has a major attitude problem going....
evidenced by his expectation to BE the starter without competing for it.

I wish Kyle the best... I just dont think his best is gonna be here.

All very good points. I totally agree that if Orton is still he's not going to be much of a mentor in fact I doubt he was much of one even when he was the starter. I just don't think Denver should take a bad deal just to move him along. If he stays and becomes a distraction he would hurt himself far worse than he would the Broncos.

rcsodak
01-19-2011, 09:41 AM
Please show me where one of those guys mentioned Orton as an MVP. I heard he is a decent journeyman who in the right system flourished. I heard he's a good qb who had some nice passing yardage. But NO WHERE did I see a single person in the press name him an MVP candidate.
Sirius NFL Radio. Pat/Tim. To my knowledge, they don't save scripts on the website. But Pat does write articles and may have put it in print. Don't know what to tell you, gem. He was the talk when he was on his way to breaking Marino's passing record. And btw, the only place I hear him callled a" journeyman" is here.
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rcsodak
01-19-2011, 09:42 AM
It's the infamous "they". And, though you've tried to pin him down, he won't likely respond. However, this won't stop him from bringing up "they" in the future.
Too bad you think you know what you're typing about. :coffee:
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rcsodak
01-19-2011, 09:43 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if a Bleacher Report gets posted.... :tsk: :tsk: :coffee:
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Juriga72
01-19-2011, 09:45 AM
Not that it's worth anything, but there are quite a few fans of other teams needing a QB that would love to have Orton. I was speaking with 2 very realistic and intelligent SF fans the other day and they would be okay with giving up a 2nd or 3rd for Orton. Again...it means nothing other than the fact that fans of teams OTHER than the Broncos see Orton's abilities and also understand the reality that, regardless of the fact that Locker, Mallett and Gabbert are solid (not great) prospects...they also canr be expected to start from day one. A veteran to keep the seat warm is a necessity

And yet.... Troy Smith outplayed Orton head to head. IIRC "A number of very knowledgeable NFL people" ( You know people PAID to know football/players) let Kyle free-fall all the way to the 5th round.

I wonder why people PAID to be "Knowledgeable football people" would do that............gee

It would seem that a 11-18 starting record would indicate just how awesome he is....

rcsodak
01-19-2011, 09:47 AM
I see your point... but..

I think it is still a rebuilding year either way...
Orton aint gonna take us to the Super Bowl this season.
Kyle is a free agent and walks after this...
I see no possibility that we sign him to a multi million dollar contract.

So.. however it works.. we gotta bite the bullet here and play the first round pick...
backed up by another first round pick.

I think even the Ortonites would agree that Orton on the bench
behind Tebow is not gonna be a good thing...

Orton has showed ZERO "mentoring" ability..
and he has a major attitude problem going....
evidenced by his expectation to BE the starter without competing for it.

I wish Kyle the best... I just dont think his best is gonna be here.
Not sure where you get this" entitlement" idea about Kyle. He's said repeatedly he looks forward to competition. And that he never lost his starting spot, in denver nor chicago, by getting beat out.
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TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 09:48 AM
Sirius NFL Radio. Pat/Tim. To my knowledge, they don't save scripts on the website. But Pat does write articles and may have put it in print. Don't know what to tell you, gem. He was the talk when he was on his way to breaking Marino's passing record. And btw, the only place I hear him callled a" journeyman" is here.
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I've heard Orton called a journeyman by the press in Denver.

rcsodak
01-19-2011, 09:50 AM
You mean that #1 defense that went 8-8 this year? Losing to:
Seattle
Oakland-2x

Oh and that "Powerhouse" Bungal team from Cincy.... You know THEY went 4-12 also this year...

Funny thing is...... Tebow against the very same defense ( You know #1 and all that) oh and the #32 rushing game also threw 2 touchdowns in one game against them... Hmmmmmmmm

You would think that a "HOF" qb like Orton would do better than a guy in his third ever start.

:confused:
You sure do like making shit up, don't you. You'll fit in just fine with your crowd. :coffee:

Bytheby, it was their ST's that lost some of their games. And anybody that thinks the broncos were better than SD, is, well......delusional. :rolleyes:
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BroncoStud
01-19-2011, 09:53 AM
Funny, but I'll listen to the guys that actually PLAYED/COACHED in the NFL that have said Orton is a good QB, were mentioning his name as league MVP during the season, and saying he will get a shot at starting somewhere in 2011.

But feel free to continue with your jaded remarks of one of the guys on the team who actually did good this year. Humor is good medicine. :coffee:

Of course he'll have a shot to start somewhere in 2011. Clausen sucks, the 49ers have no QB, the Cardinals may need a QB, the Titans need a QB, the Vikings need a QB, the Jaguars might need a QB, and who knows what other team will jettison players.

That STILL doesn't make Orton a "good" QB, or a legit NFL starter. He has failed now as the starting QB for 2 different teams, 1 team benches him and immediately goes to the Super Bowl.

I think Carolina is a very strong possibility for him. Tennessee as well, though Fisher seems to like winners like McNair, who play their asses of no matter what.

BroncoStud
01-19-2011, 09:56 AM
Not sure where you get this" entitlement" idea about Kyle. He's said repeatedly he looks forward to competition. And that he never lost his starting spot, in denver nor chicago, by getting beat out.
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That's BS. He lost his job to Grossman because he got beat out. The ONLY reason he ever started a game in Chicago is because Rex got hurt during Kyle's rookie season. Kyle then got benched for Rex again and the Bears went to the Super Bowl.

Also, Kyle said, and just a few weeks ago, that his play this season warranted him the starting role. How the heck is that not "entitlement" and how is that "looking forward to competition"?

TXBRONC
01-19-2011, 09:59 AM
Of course he'll have a shot to start somewhere in 2011. Clausen sucks, the 49ers have no QB, the Cardinals may need a QB, the Titans need a QB, the Vikings need a QB, the Jaguars might need a QB, and who knows what other team will jettison players.

That STILL doesn't make Orton a "good" QB, or a legit NFL starter. He has failed now as the starting QB for 2 different teams, 1 team benches him and immediately goes to the Super Bowl.

I think Carolina is a very strong possibility for him. Tennessee as well, though Fisher seems to like winners like McNair, who play their asses of no matter what.

I think Orton is good quarterback, but that means he's not elite, and he can't carry a team nor can he consistently come through in the clutch. And it also means to me that he wont win many games for you nor will he lose many for you.

Imo calling a guy a good quarterback is the same as calling him a journeyman.

rcsodak
01-19-2011, 10:03 AM
Of course he'll have a shot to start somewhere in 2011. Clausen sucks, the 49ers have no QB, the Cardinals may need a QB, the Titans need a QB, the Vikings need a QB, the Jaguars might need a QB, and who knows what other team will jettison players.

That STILL doesn't make Orton a "good" QB, or a legit NFL starter. He has failed now as the starting QB for 2 different teams, 1 team benches him and immediately goes to the Super Bowl.

I think Carolina is a very strong possibility for him. Tennessee as well, though Fisher seems to like winners like McNair, who play their asses of no matter what.
LOL.
And I bet you think KC with Elvis was better than with gannon. :lol:
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BroncoStud
01-19-2011, 10:07 AM
LOL.
And I bet you think KC with Elvis was better than with gannon. :lol:
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What the hell does Grbac/Gannon have to do with this? And no, by the way, I was a big Gannon fan even during his KC days, thought they were stupid for not giving him the opportunity, but then again he wasn't really built for their style of football before Vermeil got there...

If you are saying Tebow = Grbac, and Orton = Gannon, then the LOL is right back at you.

Gannon was a winner, a fighter, Orton is not. Orton can't carry Gannon's jock.

Juriga72
01-19-2011, 11:59 AM
You sure do like making shit up, don't you. You'll fit in just fine with your crowd. :coffee:

Bytheby, it was their ST's that lost some of their games. And anybody that thinks the broncos were better than SD, is, well......delusional. :rolleyes:
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Uh..... Maybe you should try reading the NFL.com records for San Diego...

Lets see what lies I told:

"San Diego went 8-8".. nope... not a lie
"San Diego lost to Seattle".. NOPE they did
"San Diego lost to Oakland twice"- NOPE again... SEE.... for the FIRST TIME EVER!!!!! a team (Oakland) won all 6 games in thier divison and didnt make the playoffs...


OF course you seem to slow to understand that Orton pee'd himself on Monday night THIS year, just like he did LAST year when we lost 3-32 at home.

Did I just make "That shit up" too? Face it..... Your love for a terrible QB makes you more a Orton fan than a Bronco fan.... Good luck cheering for whoever Kyle plays for next year.

sad... just sad cheering for the second best qb on the team to play...

BroncoStud
01-19-2011, 12:08 PM
Uh..... Maybe you should try reading the NFL.com records for San Diego...

Lets see what lies I told:

"San Diego went 8-8".. nope... not a lie
"San Diego lost to Seattle".. NOPE they did
"San Diego lost to Oakland twice"- NOPE again... SEE.... for the FIRST TIME EVER!!!!! a team (Oakland) won all 6 games in thier divison and didnt make the playoffs...


OF course you seem to slow to understand that Orton pee'd himself on Monday night THIS year, just like he did LAST year when we lost 3-32 at home.

Did I just make "That shit up" too? Face it..... Your love for a terrible QB makes you more a Orton fan than a Bronco fan.... Good luck cheering for whoever Kyle plays for next year.

sad... just sad cheering for the second best qb on the team to play...

He's pretty delusional dude... Likes to argue for the sake of arguing. Some people just don't get it.

Juriga72
01-19-2011, 01:49 PM
Not sure where you get this" entitlement" idea about Kyle. He's said repeatedly he looks forward to competition. And that he never lost his starting spot, in denver nor chicago, by getting beat out.
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Boy you sure like making shit up....

He was BENCHED winning a game in 05 at halftime. HOW bad was it?
So you dont think I am "Making shit up" again Sparky...

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2005121811/2005/REG15/falcons@bears/recap

Chicago (10-4) turned to Grossman after watching Orton complete 2 of 10 passes for 12 yards in the first half.

Bears coach Lovie Smith praised Grossman but stopped short of naming him the starter for next week's game at Green Bay.

"I just felt like we needed a spark," Smith said. "Rex was ready to go. He had that look about him."

But when asked who would line up behind center next week, Smith said, "We'll go back and look at the tapes and decide who's starting."

But Atlanta defensive end Patrick Kerney said it should be an easy decision: "There is no doubt that he is a stronger quarterback and more of a threat to throw. It makes them a little more multidimensional than they were with Orton in there."


OOOOOPSSSSSSSEYYYYYYYY- El Bencho for Kyle

2006 How many plays was he in for? ZERO and golly BEARS go to the Super Bowl....

THIS year... benched for a piss poor season of losing..

I know.... YARDS> wins in your world....

JaxBroncoGirl
01-19-2011, 03:49 PM
I wish things would work out for Kyle being a back up QB here. From what I have read, he is starting to show his true colors.

1. Ignoring Tebow
2. Laughing at Tebow during sprints
3. Pouting while Tebow played the last 3 games
4. Does not talk about other team mates playing
5. His play has warranted him the starting job in 2011

We still need another strong QB. If Kyle was a leader then the below would read:

1. Showing Tebow the ropes, sharing his knowledge
2. Encouraging a team atmosphere while Tebow sprints
3. Stepping up and making sure Tebow played with confidence during the last 3 games (mentoring)
4. Talks positive about other team mates playing
5. His play has NOT warranted him the starting job in 2011

We still need another strong QB in case Tebow gets hurt or he just fails. The latter will not happen but I leave it there for people that are not sold on Tebow.