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Buff
01-17-2011, 10:15 PM
Almost a done deal.


Broncos near hiring Jim Mora as defensive coordinator under John Fox

By Lindsay H. Jones
The Denver Post
Posted: 01/17/2011 07:45:38 PM MSTUpdated: 01/17/2011 07:56:10 PM MST

Five days after being hired as the Broncos new head coach, John Fox has nearly completed hiring his staff, with the likely addition of Jim Mora as defensive coordinator.

Mora, the former Atlanta and Seattle head coach, traveled to Denver on Monday to meet with Fox.

Mora, 49, spent much of his NFL career coaching defensive backs, and he was also the defensive coordinator in San Francisco for five years before his two head coaching stops, first in Atlanta and then with the Seahawks in 2009. He spent 2010 working as an analyst for the NFL Network.



Read more: Broncos near hiring Jim Mora as defensive coordinator under John Fox - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17120764#ixzz1BLxKKode
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Agent of Orange
01-17-2011, 10:19 PM
Not a surprise but its good to see its something is getting done so they can move forward.

rcsodak
01-17-2011, 10:20 PM
What happened to the" pending deal" with Phil's ex-DC?
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Buff
01-17-2011, 10:20 PM
I like bringing in a former head coach, who never really got a fair shot in Seattle as HC, that has been analyzing the entire league for the past couple years with NFLN. He probably brings in a fresh perspective that John Fox hasn't gotten from being away from coaching for a little while.

Superchop 7
01-17-2011, 10:39 PM
Good hire.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-17-2011, 10:40 PM
What happened to the" pending deal" with Phil's ex-DC?
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RT @mortreport: Sean McDermott is the new DC in Carolina about 4 hours ago via ÜberTwitter

http://twitter.com/adamschefter

Dapper Dan
01-17-2011, 10:51 PM
Thanks for the updates. I really thought McDermott was a lock. I hope we get Mora.

shank
01-17-2011, 11:09 PM
really glad to not get mcdermott

dogfish
01-17-2011, 11:14 PM
blargh, back to the 43. . .

:yardog:


i hope we can at least get fairley. . .

Dapper Dan
01-17-2011, 11:15 PM
Does anyone else feel optimistic?

EMB6903
01-17-2011, 11:17 PM
I couldnt stand the 3-4 defense the last 2 years because Denver didnt have the personel.

screw the scheme just get a defense that can get off the field.

jhildebrand
01-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Soon this team can focus on the draft

UnderArmour
01-17-2011, 11:57 PM
I couldnt stand the 3-4 defense the last 2 years because Denver didnt have the personel.

screw the scheme just get a defense that can get off the field.

To clarify: He means off the field because of a turnover or a punt, NOT because of a touchdown allowed. The way the defense has been since Al Wilson suffered a career ending injury, this definitely needed to be clarified.

EMB6903
01-18-2011, 12:15 AM
To clarify: He means off the field because of a turnover or a punt, NOT because of a touchdown allowed. The way the defense has been since Al Wilson suffered a career ending injury, this definitely needed to be clarified.

I want to actually feel confident in the defense on 3rd down situations.

For the past half decade or so this 3rd down defense has made me go nutso.

whether its 3rd and 14 or 3rd and 2 never was I confident the Denver defense would make a stop.

dogfish
01-18-2011, 12:18 AM
the basic facts from mora's one tenure as defensive coordinator (san francisco, 1999-2003):

1999 (31-team league)

total yards - 27th
total points - 30th
3rd down percentage - 26th (T)
sacks - 27th
INTs - 25th
passing - 31st
rushing - 15th

2000 (31-team league)

total yards - 29th
total points - 28th
3rd down percentage - 21st (T)
sacks - 19th
INTs - 24th
passing - 29th
rushing - 16th

2001

total yards - 13th
total points - 9th
3rd down percentage - 16th (T)
sacks - 23rd
INTs - 3rd (T)
passing - 19th
rushing - 9th

2002

total yards - 14th
total points - 18th
3rd down percentage - 32nd :tsk:
sacks - 24th
INTs- 8th (T)
passing - 22nd
rushing - 7th

2003

total yards - 13th
total points - 12th
3rd down percentage - 28th (T)
sacks - 4th (T)
INTs - 6th
passing - 16th
rushing - 9th

Ziggy
01-18-2011, 12:22 AM
Scheme aside, can someone sell me on Jim Mora for D coordinator please? I trust Fox to build this defense, but I don't get the Mora move.

EMB6903
01-18-2011, 12:23 AM
the basic facts from mora's one tenure as defensive coordinator (san francisco, 1999-2003):

1999 (31-team league)

total yards - 27th
total points - 30th
3rd down percentage - 26th (T)sacks - 27th
INTs - 25th

2000 (31-team league)

total yards - 29th
total points - 28th
3rd down percentage - 21st (T)sacks - 19th
INTs - 24th

2001

total yards - 13th
total points - 9th
3rd down percentage - 16th (T)
sacks - 23rd
INTs - 3rd (T)

2002

total yards - 14th
total points - 18th
3rd down percentage - 32nd :tsk:sacks - 24th
INTs- 8th (T)

2003

total yards - 13th
total points - 12th
3rd down percentage - 28th (T)sacks - 4th (T)
INTs - 6th

Ouch.

Agent of Orange
01-18-2011, 12:30 AM
the basic facts from mora's one tenure as defensive coordinator (san francisco, 1999-2003):

1999 (31-team league)

total yards - 27th
total points - 30th
3rd down percentage - 26th (T)
sacks - 27th
INTs - 25th

2000 (31-team league)

total yards - 29th
total points - 28th
3rd down percentage - 21st (T)
sacks - 19th
INTs - 24th

2001

total yards - 13th
total points - 9th
3rd down percentage - 16th (T)
sacks - 23rd
INTs - 3rd (T)

2002

total yards - 14th
total points - 18th
3rd down percentage - 32nd :tsk:
sacks - 24th
INTs- 8th (T)

2003

total yards - 13th
total points - 12th
3rd down percentage - 28th (T)
sacks - 4th (T)
INTs - 6th

One thing worth mentioning though, is that they typically did well against the run.

Magnificent Seven
01-18-2011, 01:05 AM
The Denver Post is reporting that the Broncos are close to hiring former Atlanta and Seattle coach Jim L. Mora as defensive coordinator.

If Mora gets the job, he’ll be Denver’s sixth defensive coordinator in six seasons. Denver should improve defensively under the guidance of Mora and new head coach John Fox, a defensive specialist. Denver was last in the NFL in total defense and points allowed in 2010.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/23496/report-denver-close-to-hiring-mora

dogfish
01-18-2011, 01:21 AM
One thing worth mentioning though, is that they typically did well against the run.

good call, i knew i left off something obvious. . .

edited. . .

topscribe
01-18-2011, 01:30 AM
Scheme aside, can someone sell me on Jim Mora for D coordinator please? I trust Fox to build this defense, but I don't get the Mora move.

Well, it's kind of like going to your favorite restaurant for a steak. Only they
are fresh out of steaks, and all they have are sandwiches. You look at the
menu, and five sandwiches are available. Four are vegie-burgers, and one
other is a real hamburger. So you are left with ordering the hamburger if you
want to get any taste at all from your meal.

Something like that . . .

-----

dogfish
01-18-2011, 01:31 AM
Well, it's kind of like going to your favorite restaurant for a steak. Only they
are fresh out of steaks, and all they have are sandwiches. You look at the
menu, and five sandwiches are available. Four are vegie-burgers, and one
other is a real hamburger. So you are left with ordering the hamburger if you
want to get any taste at all from your meal.

Something like that . . .

-----

wow, top. . . that attempt sucked, sorry. . . :laugh:

topscribe
01-18-2011, 01:32 AM
wow, top. . . That attempt sucked, sorry. . . :laugh:

lol

-----

Buff
01-18-2011, 01:32 AM
Scheme aside, can someone sell me on Jim Mora for D coordinator please? I trust Fox to build this defense, but I don't get the Mora move.

If you trust Fox to build the defense, then you just need a solid coach with good experience who knows how to deal with players.

Have you watched the coach's show on NFLN with him and Brian Billick? Aside from being a little goofy, Mora really knows X's and O's and he usually made a pretty good case by breaking down film to support his arguments... He's a coach's kid (like real NFL - not Ohio HS football) so he's been around the game his entire life...

I'm hopeful that a guy with two head coaching stops has learned a few things about what notto do if nothing else. Plus, he's gonna be hungry after being out of the game.

BroncoAV06
01-18-2011, 01:33 AM
You would think people would be looking forward to a staff that has been through the fire knows what has to be done. But Mora is no McDaniels so I understand the reason to not look forward to his defense.
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Superchop 7
01-18-2011, 01:40 AM
When Mora became defensive co-ordinator for San Fran, Eddie Debartalo had just been kicked out of the league......The 49ers had to clear 28 million in cap space...(dumping stars like Merton Hanks in the process)...and then.....they lose Steve Young forever to a concussion.

Welcome to the NFL kid.

Mora did a great job getting them back in the playoffs in 2001 and 2002, Then.....they fired Mariucci and bring in a new coach in 2003. (new scheme)

I think he did a helluva job, pretty sure it's the last time the 49ers were in the playoffs.

His father Jim Mora Sr. has been very close with Dom Capers since the USFL days, he has a very high football IQ, and whether he is paid as a consultant or not, he is a valuable resource.

Hey, if you don't have alot to work with...he is a guy that can work with what you've got.

Buff
01-18-2011, 01:48 AM
When Mora became defensive co-ordinator for San Fran, Eddie Debartalo had just been kicked out of the league......The 49ers had to clear 28 million in cap space...(dumping stars like Merton Hanks in the process)...and then.....they lose Steve Young forever to a concussion.

Welcome to the NFL kid.

Mora did a great job getting them back in the playoffs in 2001 and 2002, Then.....they fired Mariucci and bring in a new coach in 2003. (new scheme)

I think he did a helluva job, pretty sure it's the last time the 49ers were in the playoffs.

His father Jim Mora Sr. has been very close with Dom Capers since the USFL days, he has a very high football IQ, and whether he is paid as a consultant or not, he is a valuable resource.

Hey, if you don't have alot to work with...he is a guy that can work with what you've got.

I don't know why, but I just remember Merton Hanks having the longest neck in the league. He was like a giraffe playing safety.

/random worthless post

Superchop 7
01-18-2011, 01:58 AM
I don't know why, but I just remember Merton Hanks having the longest neck in the league. He was like a giraffe playing safety.

/random worthless post
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Yeah, when shoulder pads and a helmet can't hide it........

Thats one long freakin neck.

Superchop 7
01-18-2011, 02:03 AM
Just "you tube" Merton Hanks chicken dance.

Bosco
01-18-2011, 02:07 AM
Scheme aside, can someone sell me on Jim Mora for D coordinator please? I trust Fox to build this defense, but I don't get the Mora move.

Mora is actually a very good coach X's and O's coach. His problem was that as a head coach he was far too loyal to one of the worst offensive coordinators in the game, Greg Knapp. This guy tried to turn Mike Vick into a WCO QB in Atlanta and cost him and Mora their jobs, then when Mora goes to Seattle he brings Knapp with him again to run the offense, which turns into a huge ******* disaster and costs them both their jobs again.

It's quite similar to Mike Shanahan and his boyfriend Bob Slowik. They're both too blinded by personal loyalty.

Agent of Orange
01-18-2011, 02:10 AM
Mora is actually a very good coach X's and O's coach. His problem was that as a head coach he was far too loyal to one of the worst offensive coordinators in the game, Greg Knapp. This guy tried to turn Mike Vick into a WCO QB in Atlanta and cost him and Mora their jobs, then when Mora goes to Seattle he brings Knapp with him again to run the offense, which turns into a huge ******* disaster and costs them both their jobs again.

It's quite similar to Mike Shanahan and his boyfriend Bob Slowik. They're both too blinded by personal loyalty.

How genius. Michael Vick is a WCO QB now. He's already admitted that he was lazy back when he was in Atlanta. How is that on Knapp? And how is Knapp so stupid for trying to turn Vick into a WCO QB when Vick was a contender for MVP this year as a WCO QB?

getlynched47
01-18-2011, 02:10 AM
I am mostly impressed with the coaching staff that John Fox is assembling. The only problems I have are:

Why bring Tyke Tolbert? Our WR coach (Adam Gase) is excellent, and coached up Pro Bowlers in each of his 2 seasons as the Broncos wide receivers coach (Marshall in '09, Lloyd in '10)

Second, John Fox AND Jim Mora Jr. have background mostly in the 4-3. I'm fine with switching to the 4-3, but then this is kind of a head-scratcher with us keeping Wayne Nunnely on board.

Nunnely is a good coach, but he's been teaching 3-4 defensive lineman techniques the past 5+ years. Techniques for 4-3 lineman and 3-4 lineman are not the same, contrary to popular belief.

Make up your mind Fox. 4-3 or 3-4 so we can move forward from there.

But I'm loving the hires. Magazu is probably my favorite hiring, along with keeping Eric Studesville

dogfish
01-18-2011, 02:11 AM
alright, here's my full-length ramble on the topic-- **** it, may as well. . .

i honestly don't hate mora-- he's okay, at least he's a competent pro. . . he's not a dumptruck load of fail like slowick or anything, and he's not a horrible retread. . . dude was a hot up-and-comer who bricked it as a head coach, and after cooling his heels in the studio waiting for an offer that didn't come, he's going to do what lots of other have had to-- go back to the ranks of the assistants and try to earn another chance. . .

we could do worse. . . at least he has DC experience. . . looks like it was a solid job, but in all honesty one five-year stint isn't exactly an overwhelming body of work to judge from-- which is probably one reason his recent HCing mulligan may get lumped in a bit, unfair as it may be given the injuries that team had. . .

the job he did in SF looks like the definition of good but not great. . . he did turn it around, you have to give him credit-- didn't happen overnight, but the scoring defense fell into a much more respectable range the last three years. . . and that's something, especially when you're where we are. . . not that he has to repeat that pattern here, but better run defense right away would be a nice start. . . and better scoring defense eventually is a basic necessity-- right away would be a LOT better there. . .

i know you don't want to put unrealistic expectations on someone. . . buuut. . . it is a results league, and you see what nolan did here with a comparable wreck. . . and if nothing else, it has to make you wonder "what if we'd just given that dude some talent to work with?"

yea, pointless. . .

if mora takes three years to get us out of bottom five in scoring D, it's going to be awfully ****ing painful to watch. . .

i do understand that begggars can't be choosers, gotta crawl before you can walk and all the other cliches. . . like fox, mora at least offers some stability. . . i don't necessarily see a lot to get excited about, though, and it's as much an organizational thing as it is an individual thing with mora. . .

i'm assuming hiring him would/will mean we're going back to the 4-3, and i'm not a huge fan. . . i know, it's just scheme-- personnel is most important. . . i actually would love the 4-3 if we'd gotten spagnuolo last year like i wanted, but aside from the jim johson-coached eagles and spags' G-men, i really don't see the model for a 4-3 defense that i like as much as pittsburgh, the jets, the ravens hybrid, or the monster they're building in green bay. . . the steelers and vultures have proven over the years that you don't have to have elite quarterback play to be competitive when you have that type of D-- and that you can contend for if not win championships when you do get solid or better QB play. . .

the bears have been the best 43 in recent years IMO, and they've been pretty inconsistent-- it took the infusion of a $75 mil (or whatever) superstar free agent to get them back on track, and we'll see how long it lasts. . .

i find it particularly disappointing because this year presents such a great opportunity to put the building blocks in place for that type of defense, that type of year-after-year consistent defense that the top organizations run. . .
it's so tough to do without a foundation on the DL, and those guys are hard to find. . . this particular year happens to offer a fairly-unprecedented wealth of potential 30-front linemen-- and with the value of #2 overall plus two seconds and a third, we could move around and have our choice of them. . . we could set the foundation for a monster D for the next decade. . . if we don't, it's going to feel like a wasted opportunity to me for ****ing ever if we don't hit the 43 out of the park. . .

obviously no one knows for sure, but if we do go 4-3 it would seem to line up very neatly for us to not trade down, but go all-in with fairley or bowers at #2. . . both exciting prospects to be sure, but one-year pass rushers do have a very ugly history of busting badly. . . and you have so many of your hopes wrapped up in one set of knees-- i just like the odds better with several quality prospects, especially if going that route can also net an additional pick for another linebacker, safety or OT. . . i would feel differently if an unmissable beast like suh was sitting there, but i don't see fairley or bowers at quite that level. . .

so if we do hire mora and go that route, we shall see. . . i'm certainly not going to pretend that it can't work or anything dumb like that. . . i'd just rather see us try to go with that supremely physically-imposing model, call it personal preference. . .

*shrugs*

Northman
01-18-2011, 02:16 AM
I don't know why, but I just remember Merton Hanks having the longest neck in the league. He was like a giraffe playing safety.

/random worthless post

That stupid chicken dance he used to do peeved me off all the time.

Bosco
01-18-2011, 02:19 AM
How genius. Michael Vick is a WCO QB now.

No he's not. Marty Mornhinweg's offense is a vertical passing attack run out of multiple receiver spread sets. It's much more closely related to what Josh McDaniels and Sean Payton run rather than Knapp's traditional WCO.

Agent of Orange
01-18-2011, 02:30 AM
No he's not. Marty Mornhinweg's offense is a vertical passing attack run out of multiple receiver spread sets. It's much more closely related to what Josh McDaniels and Sean Payton run rather than Knapp's traditional WCO.

If it was truly a WCO ala Bill Walsh, one of the RBs would have had more than 50 catches. They would have had a pro-set formation. Truthfully, by that time, the "traditional WCO" didn't really exist. There are concepts, sure, but that can be said for Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg's offense (both are WCO guys).

Northman
01-18-2011, 02:33 AM
Im pretty sure i saw a quote from Vick that he was just very lazy while in Atlanta and when Philly gave him another shot he took it upon himself to work harder and learning the scheme and improving his passing accuracy.

silkamilkamonico
01-18-2011, 02:44 AM
******* gag me.....Jim Mora Jr? The guy was a terrible HC, and not a very good coordinator either. This is either desperation at it's finest or he's one of the few "4-3" guys left and Fox isn't switching.

I expected better from you Mr. Fox.

Bosco
01-18-2011, 02:48 AM
If it was truly a WCO ala Bill Walsh, one of the RBs would have had more than 50 catches. If that was the criteria for establishing a WCO (it isn't) then Denver hasn't run one, even in Shanny's heyday.


They would have had a pro-set formation. The pro-set as a base formation has been dead for quite some time now. You have to go back to the early 90's to find a team that used it as anything more than a novelty.


Truthfully, by that time, the "traditional WCO" didn't really exist. Not true at all. Shanahan and his disciples run traditional WCOs. So did Holmgren. Guys like Mike McCarthy, Mornhinweg, Mariucci and Reid are the ones who split off into more vertical, spread variants of the offense that were hybridized with the Erhradt-Perkins and Air Coryell offenses.

The WCO is a jumbled mess of a system, but it's still fairly easy to discern the two different camps as they practice completely different philosophies in their offensive schemes.


There are concepts, sure, but that can be said for Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg's offense (both are WCO guys). Neither of them are traditional WCO guys, while Greg Knapp is. That is what he tried to force Vick into and it was a complete failure that should have never been attempted from the start. The traditional WCO takes Vick's best attributes and completely nullifies them.

nflfan
01-18-2011, 03:42 AM
What I remember about Jim Mora Jr. in Seattle was how he threw his player under the bus after a loss. When the kicker missed, he wholeheartedly put the blame on the kicker in front of the media.

A real head coach would not use scapegoats for his inability to deliver wins.

If he's anything like that as a coordinator, then I doubt players will want to play for him.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 04:13 AM
Hard to fault his defenses in San Francisco, that team didn't have a lot of talent on the defensive side of the football. All in all I think this is a good hire. With what was available, it's a good hire and it shows that Fox is probably going back to the 4-3, which I think we are better suited to run anyway.

atwater27
01-18-2011, 04:23 AM
We have a crappy overall team, and will now have mediocre coaches. So instead of 4-12 or 8-8, we should expect some 6-10 seasons. the main exception here will be if our GM wonder team of Elway/Xanders can draft smart and can get some impact free agents up in here. I am not in the least bit excited about our new coaching staff, especially is this Mora thing pans out. Again, if we emerge from crappiness into and above mediocrity in the next few seasons, it will be because of the right draft picks and free agents. Not from expert coaching. Just my opinion as things stand right now.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 04:38 AM
We have a crappy overall team, and will now have mediocre coaches. So instead of 4-12 or 8-8, we should expect some 6-10 seasons. the main exception here will be if our GM wonder team of Elway/Xanders can draft smart and can get some impact free agents up in here. I am not in the least bit excited about our new coaching staff, especially is this Mora thing pans out. Again, if we emerge from crappiness into and above mediocrity in the next few seasons, it will be because of the right draft picks and free agents. Not from expert coaching. Just my opinion as things stand right now.

I'm not sure what the alternatives were at DC, or really OC for that matter... There are some really good college offensive coordinators but that is a risk for any NFL team. The best coordinators seem to be on playoff teams and one has to wonder why they would leave that position to come to Denver?

atwater27
01-18-2011, 05:17 AM
We didn't have much to choose from I know.... Bad year to need all 3 coaching positions. Unfortunately that's what we had to choose from, and we'll reap the consequences.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 05:36 AM
We didn't have much to choose from I know.... Bad year to need all 3 coaching positions. Unfortunately that's what we had to choose from, and we'll reap the consequences.

Mora is a lot better than what we had this year, and almost every year aside from Mike Nolan.

broncofaninfla
01-18-2011, 06:21 AM
Looks like we are switchng to the 4/3, not happy about. Just take a look at the final four teams left, kinda proves the 3/4 is a better scheme.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 06:26 AM
Looks like we are switchng to the 4/3, not happy about. Just take a look at the final four teams left, kinda proves the 3/4 is a better scheme.

The Bears had arguably the greatest defense of all-time running the 4-6. Many teams have won Super Bowls with the 4-3. The Bears currently run the 4-3 and have one of the best defenses in the NFL.

It's about players and coaching more than scheme. Many schemes have worked for a long time in the NFL. Bring in good players and the 4-3 will be just fine.

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 07:12 AM
The Bears had arguably the greatest defense of all-time running the 4-6. Many teams have won Super Bowls with the 4-3. The Bears currently run the 4-3 and have one of the best defenses in the NFL.

It's about players and coaching more than scheme. Many schemes have worked for a long time in the NFL. Bring in good players and the 4-3 will be just fine.
If its so good, then why are so many teams changing?
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gobroncsnv
01-18-2011, 07:58 AM
Well, it wouldn't be a big stretch to me to have us change to the 4-3 if we had some quality linemen... Based on that, right now, I don't see us being able to field a 2-5... Our strength is not up front at all right now. Hoping they can bring some guys in that will help on that equation, but are pretty bad up front right now. They gotta get that number higher.

Nomad
01-18-2011, 08:20 AM
Good luck Jim Mora, Jr and welcome to the BRONCOS:defense:!!

Agent of Orange
01-18-2011, 09:30 AM
Well, it wouldn't be a big stretch to me to have us change to the 4-3 if we had some quality linemen... Based on that, right now, I don't see us being able to field a 2-5... Our strength is not up front at all right now. Hoping they can bring some guys in that will help on that equation, but are pretty bad up front right now. They gotta get that number higher.

In a 4-3, we probably need 2 defensive lineman (Ill assume Ayers is solid if nothing else). In a 3-4, we probably need 3 defensive linemen.

Once again, whats most important is what makes sense for the Broncos and not what everyone else is doing.

Last year 3/4 of the final 4 teams were 4-3s.

dunk7
01-18-2011, 10:27 AM
I'm not going to get too excited about this...Shefter reported Mora was close to be hired by Philly

G_Money
01-18-2011, 10:35 AM
I don't have a problem going back to the 4-3. If we'd had the draft of the Packers a couple of years ago and added Raji and Matthews to our D, then fine, stay in the 3-4. If Nolan was still here, 3-4.

We don't have the coach or the personnel to do a 3-4, so move back to a 4-3. It messes with a couple of players, and suits a couple of other players better. It's a wash.

A bigger concern to me is that I think Mora isn't a good DC and McCoy isn't a good OC. Our positional coaches are getting better, but without good coordinators what good does it do us?

Mora was bad in SF as dogfish outlined and had a very bad year in Seattle too. I know he's pretty and all, but in half-a-decade as a coordinator he doesn't seem especially competent.

Here's hoping Fox makes Mora his bitch and runs a better defense than Jim is capable of, and McCoy knows more than he showed in the last quarter of the season.

Personally? I think we'll be in the market for a new coordinator of some stripe within 2 years. I would have looked for Gase to take over on offense as a rising hotshot, but he's gone now too. Maybe it'll be Tolbert's turn.

Not the staff I was hoping for. A wet-behind-the-ears OC who's called four games in his life and a DC who is not only an atrocious head coach but a very mediocre coordinator to boot.

Bleh. :tsk: I'm not against Fox as head coach, but it sure looks like we're making this recovery harder than it had to be.

Good luck, John. We need you to be lucky.

~G

BigDaddyBronco
01-18-2011, 10:48 AM
G, Gase is still here, he has just been moved to QB coach. WR coach, QB coach, maybe they are grooming him as a future OC.


Whoa, check that, there are rumors he will interview in Dallas as their WR coach. Gase isn't hired yet.

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:50 AM
I'm not going to get too excited about this...Shefter reported Mora was close to be hired by Phillyif that's the case, it might show a lacking of/inability to coach-up or build a defense. With philly, he'd already have the pieces in place.
How about Wanstadt. I hear he wants back in the league.
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rcsodak
01-18-2011, 10:53 AM
I don't have a problem going back to the 4-3. If we'd had the draft of the Packers a couple of years ago and added Raji and Matthews to our D, then fine, stay in the 3-4. If Nolan was still here, 3-4.

We don't have the coach or the personnel to do a 3-4, so move back to a 4-3. It messes with a couple of players, and suits a couple of other players better. It's a wash.

A bigger concern to me is that I think Mora isn't a good DC and McCoy isn't a good OC. Our positional coaches are getting better, but without good coordinators what good does it do us?

Mora was bad in SF as dogfish outlined and had a very bad year in Seattle too. I know he's pretty and all, but in half-a-decade as a coordinator he doesn't seem especially competent.

Here's hoping Fox makes Mora his bitch and runs a better defense than Jim is capable of, and McCoy knows more than he showed in the last quarter of the season.

Personally? I think we'll be in the market for a new coordinator of some stripe within 2 years. I would have looked for Gase to take over on offense as a rising hotshot, but he's gone now too. Maybe it'll be Tolbert's turn.

Not the staff I was hoping for. A wet-behind-the-ears OC who's called four games in his life and a DC who is not only an atrocious head coach but a very mediocre coordinator to boot.

Bleh. :tsk: I'm not against Fox as head coach, but it sure looks like we're making this recovery harder than it had to be.

Good luck, John. We need you to be lucky.

~G
Gase is now the QB coach.
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G_Money
01-18-2011, 10:54 AM
G, Gase is still here, he has just been moved to QB coach. WR coach, QB coach, maybe they are grooming him as a future OC.

I thought he'd gone to the Cowboys, but I guess he just interviewed for that job. I'd prefer him to stay as QB coach, but I haven't heard that he's confirmed in that position. We'll see.

~G

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 11:18 AM
Does anyone else feel optimistic?

From reading your posts you would be optimistic if we hire Josh McDaniels back... I'm guessing there isn't a move the current regime could make you wouldn't openly support... :elefant:

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 11:22 AM
If its so good, then why are so many teams changing?
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F L A V O R of the W E E K

Everyone wants to play follow the leader. Same thing happened when the 49ers won Super Bowls running the WCO, suddenly everyone was running it. Same thing with the spread in college football. Same thing with Wildcat.

Plenty of teams have won Super Bowls using the 4-3 defense. The Bears and Giants both currently run the 4-3 and are VERY good at it.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 11:24 AM
if that's the case, it might show a lacking of/inability to coach-up or build a defense. With philly, he'd already have the pieces in place.
How about Wanstadt. I hear he wants back in the league.
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Dave runs the 4-3 you seem to hate so much as well...

slim
01-18-2011, 11:41 AM
Fox will be heavily involved in the defense, so the DC is not something to be too concerned about, IMO.

The bigger concern is McCoy as OC. That worries me.

Superchop 7
01-18-2011, 11:59 AM
To give you some perspective, the salary cap in 1999 was 58.3 million. (49ers cut 28 million that year)

Mora Jr. is "not" a HC, we all know that.

He "is" a players coach, and he got results.

Stats don't always tell the story.

What did Mariucci do "without" Mora JR ?

He was terrible.

As for Nunnely, the 4-3 is easier to coach than the 3-4. He will be fine.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-18-2011, 12:11 PM
If its so good, then why are so many teams changing?
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2 words... Peyton Manning. The 3-4 is Manning's kryptonite (unless we're running it, obviously) and since he's the "gold standard" everyone has decided that they need to run the defense that's the "Manning Killer".

On top of that, where is it coming from? Hmm, two pretty successful teams over the last decade (NE and Pitt) have run it and as their respective coaching trees have branched out to other teams, the scheme has gone with them.

Let's look:

-Crennel goes to Cleveland, previously a 4-3 team, and brings the 3-4. Mangini keeps it there.
-Mangini brings the 3-4 with him to the NYJ (previously a 4-3 team).
-McDaniels brings the 3-4 with him to Denver from NE (previously a 4-3).
-Ken Wisenhunt brings the 3-4 with him from Pitt to Ariz (previous 4-3)
-Todd haley then brings the 3-4 from Ariz with him to KC (previous 4-3)

That's 5 teams right there that have converted in the past 3 years or so just because their new coaching staffs were descended from NE or Pitt. It's a copycat league and when you decided to remake your franchise to try to emulate successful ones and you hire their assistant coaches to run your team, their schemes become yours.

If you look at some other teams that recently converted in the past 5 years, it's typically just because of who they have as their DC/HC (Wade Phillips and Marty Schottenheimer switched to the 3-4 in SD, then Wade brought it with him to Dallas and will now bring it to Houston (maybe they'll be looking to offload some of that 4-3 talent they've acquired - what are they going to do with Mario Williams? stand him up???)... GB switched to a 3-4 last year because they brought in Dom Capers to be their DC. That's the only real reason. Shit, even Shanny tried the switch to the 3-4 in Washington this year because he watched how the Pats did it during his year off.

IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S BETTER OR WORSE. I remember when a ton of teams used to run the 3-4 but, like anything else, offenses started game planning to beat it so it lost its effectiveness and all but disappeared for a few years. Back in the late 90's Pittsburgh was one of the few teams still running it. They were still a great defense, but because they hadn't won a Superbowl with it, nobody cared about using it. It wasn't until Bellicheat's and Lebeau's 3-4s started winning Superbowls and started giving Peyton Manning headaches that people became interested again.

The 3-4 isn't any better than the 4-3. It just so happens the two most dominant teams of the past decade both happen to run it and everyone is trying to "keep up with the Joneses" - in Denvers case, pathetically.

dogfish
01-18-2011, 12:21 PM
maybe they'll be looking to offload some of that 4-3 talent they've acquired - what are they going to do with Mario Williams? stand him up???

wade says mario's going to be an insane one-gap five-technique. . . .

HORSEPOWER 56
01-18-2011, 12:25 PM
wade says mario's going to be an insane one-gap five-technique. . . .

Well, if anyone can coach him, it's Wade. He's the only guy I know of that can make a completely undersized NT extremely effective. Jay Ratliff is tiny by 3-4 NT standards.

Superchop 7
01-18-2011, 12:54 PM
Love Wade (as DC) wanted him here.

But.......

Looking at this thing.

We have a head coach and a DC (if hired) that have both rebuilt teams, both are players coaches and respected around the league.

We have some continuity at OC, which is huge for Tebows development.

Putting Gase with Tebow was smart.

Keeping Studesville was a nice move, the way Studesville has carried himself showed every Bronco fan and every player how to handle adversity with class and dignity. (The players should insist that he is the first person that comes out of the tunnel next year, fans would go nuts)

Having Elway in the front office is huge, Ellis is an idiot and John will keep him from screwing up the franchise.

In my mind, at long last......the stench is gone, the black cloud is gone, and we are no longer going backwards.

We are moving forward.

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 12:56 PM
Dave runs the 4-3 you seem to hate so much as well...where did I say I "hate" the 43? Next...
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rcsodak
01-18-2011, 01:10 PM
2 words... Peyton Manning. The 3-4 is Manning's kryptonite (unless we're running it, obviously) and since he's the "gold standard" everyone has decided that they need to run the defense that's the "Manning Killer".

On top of that, where is it coming from? Hmm, two pretty successful teams over the last decade (NE and Pitt) have run it and as their respective coaching trees have branched out to other teams, the scheme has gone with them.

Let's look:

-Crennel goes to Cleveland, previously a 4-3 team, and brings the 3-4. Mangini keeps it there.
-Mangini brings the 3-4 with him to the NYJ (previously a 4-3 team).
-McDaniels brings the 3-4 with him to Denver from NE (previously a 4-3).
-Ken Wisenhunt brings the 3-4 with him from Pitt to Ariz (previous 4-3)
-Todd haley then brings the 3-4 from Ariz with him to KC (previous 4-3)

That's 5 teams right there that have converted in the past 3 years or so just because their new coaching staffs were descended from NE or Pitt. It's a copycat league and when you decided to remake your franchise to try to emulate successful ones and you hire their assistant coaches to run your team, their schemes become yours.

If you look at some other teams that recently converted in the past 5 years, it's typically just because of who they have as their DC/HC (Wade Phillips and Marty Schottenheimer switched to the 3-4 in SD, then Wade brought it with him to Dallas and will now bring it to Houston (maybe they'll be looking to offload some of that 4-3 talent they've acquired - what are they going to do with Mario Williams? stand him up???)... GB switched to a 3-4 last year because they brought in Dom Capers to be their DC. That's the only real reason. Shit, even Shanny tried the switch to the 3-4 in Washington this year because he watched how the Pats did it during his year off.

IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S BETTER OR WORSE. I remember when a ton of teams used to run the 3-4 but, like anything else, offenses started game planning to beat it so it lost its effectiveness and all but disappeared for a few years. Back in the late 90's Pittsburgh was one of the few teams still running it. They were still a great defense, but because they hadn't won a Superbowl with it, nobody cared about using it. It wasn't until Bellicheat's and Lebeau's 3-4s started winning Superbowls and started giving Peyton Manning headaches that people became interested again.

The 3-4 isn't any better than the 4-3. It just so happens the two most dominant teams of the past decade both happen to run it and everyone is trying to "keep up with the Joneses" - in Denvers case, pathetically.
Wow, 56, you related to~ G? Lol
and since I evidently wasn't obvious enough...my post was rhetorical in nature.
Some make the 43 out to be so great,when in actuality, unless you have difference makers on the line(healthy THarris/Peppers), its harder to be dominate. The 34 allows more diversity in attacking the QB, and has more speed in the box to counter the short pass, which is also the new wave.
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rcsodak
01-18-2011, 01:14 PM
wade says mario's going to be an insane one-gap five-technique. . . .according to some guys on Sirius NFL, wade uses more 43 than you think.
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Agent of Orange
01-18-2011, 03:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akKjLWG0KG4


Has anyone seen this? Seeing this makes me like More a little more. It's awesome that he called ESPN out for one of their stupid questions.

BroncoStud
01-18-2011, 04:59 PM
OFF TOPIC: Jeremy Bates was fired by Seattle. Thought that was sort of ironic since we had the Bates/McCoy debate a week ago on here... I don't think Bates was the reason they lost games, there isn't a lot of talent to work with there.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-18-2011, 05:32 PM
New Broncos coach John Fox has spent most of Tuesday interviewing Jim Mora for the team’s defensive coordinator job.

Mora traveled to Denver on Monday and arrived at Dove Valley to meet with Fox around 8:30 a.m. He was still in the building mid afternoon, but no deal had been finalized.

Mora appears to be the Fox’s top choice for the defensive coordinator job, but he might have other options. ESPN.com has reported that the Eagles are also interested in talking to Mora.

full blog - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/01/18/mora-in-the-building-but-nothing-official-yet/6626/

zbeg
01-18-2011, 07:21 PM
What I remember about Jim Mora Jr. in Seattle was how he threw his player under the bus after a loss. When the kicker missed, he wholeheartedly put the blame on the kicker in front of the media.

A real head coach would not use scapegoats for his inability to deliver wins.

If he's anything like that as a coordinator, then I doubt players will want to play for him.

Guy's a huge douchebag. Part of the reason why he was fired from the Falcons is that he got on a Seattle radio show and said that he would pack his bags and move to Seattle if he was offered the University of Washington head coaching job (which wasn't open). He backtracked afterwards and said he was just joking, but the Falcons were not happy.

He threw his players under the bus, he douchebagged an interviewer this year in regards to some questions about Michael Vick.

I sure hope he knows his Xs and Os.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-18-2011, 09:20 PM
# I don't know what to make of the fact that Mora has already left Denver. But I don't think it is good, but that's just me. half a minute ago via TweetDeck

# No deal in place yet for Mora as DC. He spent the day at Dove Valley meeting with Fox + staff, but flew out this evening. 7 minutes ago via TweetDeck

http://twitter.com/postbroncos

nevcraw
01-18-2011, 09:46 PM
intereresting -- wonder if deal fell threw or just not anounced..

saw this from earlier..
http://www.facebook.com/#!/DenverBroncos
Denver BroncosJohn Elway via Twitter: Our entire coaching and personnel staff will convene for the first time next week in Mobile at the Senior Bowl. Can’t wait to start working on the 2011 season with our staff.2 hours ago

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Denver Native (Carol)
01-18-2011, 09:50 PM
intereresting -- wonder if deal fell threw or just not anounced..

saw this from earlier..
http://www.facebook.com/#!/DenverBroncos
Denver BroncosJohn Elway via Twitter: Our entire coaching and personnel staff will convene for the first time next week in Mobile at the Senior Bowl. Can’t wait to start working on the 2011 season with our staff.2 hours ago

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't that unusual for the entire coaching and personnel staff to go to the Senior Bowl?

Northman
01-18-2011, 09:54 PM
I think its a good thing. Means more than one person will have input on the players. Shows unity.

dogfish
01-18-2011, 09:57 PM
mora probably wants to interview with philly before accepting a job here. . . let's face it-- their defensive personnel is superior to ours, that situation under andy reid is far more stable than what it's been like here, and mora just might get another chance at riding mike vick's coattails to a super bowl. . . and coordinators from super bowl teams get a lot of exposure. . . he might decide that's his surest ticket back to another HC job. . .

we'll see. . . my feelings won't be hurt if we don't get him. . . i'd be just as happy with someone like mike trgovac. . .

Agent of Orange
01-18-2011, 09:59 PM
mora probably wants to interview with philly before accepting a job here. . . let's face it-- their defensive personnel is superior to ours, that situation under andy reid is far more stable than what it's been like here, and mora just might get another chance at riding mike vick's coattails to a super bowl. . . and coordinators from super bowl teams get a lot of exposure. . . he might decide that's his surest ticket back to another HC job. . .

we'll see. . . my feelings won't be hurt if we don't get him. . . i'd be just as happy with someone like mike trgovac. . .

This.

horsepig
01-18-2011, 10:26 PM
I want to actually feel confident in the defense on 3rd down situations.

For the past half decade or so this 3rd down defense has made me go nutso.

whether its 3rd and 14 or 3rd and 2 never was I confident the Denver defense would make a stop.


Hell, man, how about 3'rd and 18?

Denver Native (Carol)
01-18-2011, 10:31 PM
I think its a good thing. Means more than one person will have input on the players. Shows unity.

I agree that it's a good thing, and it definitely sounds like they mean it, when they said basically, things will be done by committee - I like it.

G_Money
01-18-2011, 10:37 PM
This.

/cosign also

gobroncsnv
01-18-2011, 10:47 PM
If I'm Mora I'd take this job just to keep from having to work around Jamie Dukes...

tubby
01-18-2011, 10:56 PM
Who was the CAR DC when they were good? I'll take him if available.

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 11:01 PM
Isn't that unusual for the entire coaching and personnel staff to go to the Senior Bowl?

Fox talked about how it'd be a great way for the new coaches to get together, and that Mr Bowlen was footing for bill so they could start gelling.

Pretty cool, Imo.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-18-2011, 11:13 PM
On NFL Total Access Monday evening, Michael Lombardi reported that the Arizona Cardinals are one of the teams interested in former Atlanta Falcons and Seattle Seahawks head coach Jim Mora, Jr. to fill their defensive coordinator vacancy. He would replace the recently fired Bill Davis. The Cardinals are not the only team interested, as it was also reported that the Philadelphia Eagles were interested in him as well.

http://arizona.sbnation.com/arizona-cardinals/2011/1/17/1941294/nfl-offseason-rumors-arizona-cardinals-interested-in-jim-mora-jr-for

Bosco
01-18-2011, 11:26 PM
http://arizona.sbnation.com/arizona-cardinals/2011/1/17/1941294/nfl-offseason-rumors-arizona-cardinals-interested-in-jim-mora-jr-for

That tells me he at least has some interest in running a 3-4 scheme.

dogfish
01-18-2011, 11:52 PM
Who was the CAR DC when they were good? I'll take him if available.

that was mike trgovac. . .

Superchop 7
01-19-2011, 12:13 AM
If Fox can mend the fence.

Trgovac would be a great hire.

EMB6903
01-19-2011, 01:40 AM
Hell, man, how about 3'rd and 18?

Remember the 3rd and 19 "all out blitz" Slowik called against Miami in 2008 late in the 4th quarter when Denver was down 17-19?

Who blitzes 7 on 3rd and 19?

Of course Miami countered with a screen to Ricky Williams that went for 23 yards for the first down and later on scored a touchdown to go up 2 possesions.

Bosco
01-19-2011, 03:44 AM
Remember the 3rd and 19 "all out blitz" Slowik called against Miami in 2008 late in the 4th quarter when Denver was down 17-19?

Who blitzes 7 on 3rd and 19?

Of course Miami countered with a screen to Ricky Williams that went for 23 yards for the first down and later on scored a touchdown to go up 2 possesions.

That's another memory I thought I had repressed. Thanks alot.

:lol: