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View Full Version : Carolina Panthers' 2011 Free Agents (Who Should End Up In Denver?)



getlynched47
01-16-2011, 01:56 AM
Brought my thread over from mania:

http://walterfootball.com/freeagentscontractscar.php

QB Matt Moore, 26 years old (yo)

RB DeAngelo Williams, 27 yo

TE Jeff King, 27 yo

TE Dante Rosario, 25 yo

C Ryan Kalil, 25 yo

DE Charles Johnson, 24 yo

DT Ed Johnson, 26 yo

DT Nick Hayden, 24 yo

LB Thomas Davis, 27 yo

LB James Anderson, 26 yo

LB Jamar Williams, 26 yo

*CB Richard Marshall*, 25 yo

CB C.J. Wilson, 25 yo

The guys' names that I bolded are who I would like to pick up this offseason for a number of reasons:

Pairing DeAngelo Williams with Knowshon Moreno would be a dream. It won't be cheap, however. Williams might also steal a lot of carries from Moreno and not allow Moreno to become the feature back we all hope he becomes next season. Still, it would be a useful luxury.

Tight End Jeff King is a real possibility. He's a blocking tight end (6'3, 260 lbs) with average pass-catching skills. Personally, I'd like us to unload Daniel Graham's enormous contract and pick up a younger, cheaper player in Jeff King. He also lined up as a fullback at times, alternating with the Panther's fullback Tony Fiammetta. I expect us to get rid of an underwhelming fullback in Spencer Larsen and get a true fullback who can pave the way for Knowshon Moreno, and King can do that at either fullback or tight end.

I'd like us to move back to the 4-3 defense because I feel that we never really had the personnel to run an effective 3-4. Moving to a 4-3 would allow Robert Ayers to play defensive end (he should never have been an outside linebacker in the NFL) and be more effective IMO. If we're going to do that, we need a defensive end opposite Robert Ayers.
I know people are going to say, "well we have Elvis Dumervil". But he should not be a defensive end in our base defense aimed at stopping the run. He can be an extremely effective situational pass-rusher because he excels at rushing the passer.
Get Charles Johnson to start opposite Robert Ayers. He's great against the run (6'2, 275 lbs), and an even better pass-rusher (11.5 sacks in 2010). With Ayers and Johnson at defensive end, and some beef in the middle of our 4-3 defense (Bannan, Vickerson?), we should be stout against the run.

Finally, bring linebacker James Anderson over here. He's a 6'2, 235 lbs linebacker that started 15 games for the Panthers in 2010 at SLB. The guy totaled 130 tackles and 3.5 sacks from the strongside Linebacker spot!! He's an under-the-radar free agent pickup that would not be expensive, and would be a productive linebacker for us. Then just plug DJ Williams (or Mario Haggan/ Joe Mays) at middle linebacker and Wesley Woodyard at weakside linebacker.

I truly believe Wesley Woodyard has earned a starting spot, and his best position is weakside linebacker in a 4-3 defense. SLB- James Anderson, MLB- DJ Williams, WLB- Wesley Woodyard would be an explosive, athletic linebacking core that are also all tough, gritty guys.

__________________________________________________ ______________

I underline cornerback Richard Marshall's name for a reason. This is a tough call. I'd much rather us re-sign Champ Bailey, but if he happens to choose not to stay with the Denver Broncos, then I think we need to go after Richard Marshall. With the uncertainty of Perrish Cox (possibly facing jail time), we need a cornerback to start opposite Andre Goodman. Richard Marshall is a young cornerback who more than held his own opposite Chris Gamble in Carolina.
Gamble is an excellent cornerback, so Richard Marshall was picked on early and often. Yet he held his own and has a knack for making plays. He's also a sure tackler that can develop into an elite cornerback in the NFL given proper coaching.
The problem: He'd be more expensive than re-signing Champ Bailey
That's why I wasn't sure whether to bold his name or not, so I underlined it :D

__________________________________________________ _________________

Here's the main reason I mention DeAngelo Williams:

To protect Tim Tebow, we HAVE to have a dominant running game in 2011.

To have a great running game, you must have 2 excellent running backs or 1 elite running back.
Example- The top 5 rushing teams in the NFL in 2010

+ Kansas City Chiefs: Jamaal Charles, Thomas Jones
+ Oakland Raiders: Darren McFadden, Michael Bush
+ Jacksonville Jaguars: Maurice Jones-Drew, Rashad Jennings (He had almost 500 yards rushing)
+ New York Jets: LaDainian Tomlinson, Shonne Greene
+ Philadelphia Eagles: LeSean McCoy, Michael Vick (nearly 700 yards rushing)

Clearly, it takes an effective 1-2 punch to get a great running game going. Knowshon Moreno is not elite. Not yet. But I do consider him an excellent running back who has not been playing in the right system. He'd excel in a ZBS-oriented offense like the Panthers ran in Carolina.
Moreno has dealt with poor run-blocking and minor injuries the past 2 seasons, but I truly believe the 3rd year will be the charm for him.
DeAngelo Williams is not an elite running back, but he's darn near close when at 100%.

Pair Knowshon and DeAngelo Williams, and you've got yourself excellent protection for Tim Tebow.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Anyways.....thank you for reading through this huge post (if you did). I'd love to hear your feedback/ ideas. :salute:

BeefStew25
01-16-2011, 02:02 AM
If you are married I bet your wife hates you.

ikillz0mbies
01-16-2011, 02:03 AM
Love the post. I have no complaints at all. Williams/Moreno pairing would be GREAT. The Broncos desperately need it. Like I said in the other thread, Buck/Ball/White won't cut it. Love the Anderson suggestion. He had a GREAT year last year and would make up one hell of a LB unit with Williams. And Johnson was just a flat out stud last year. But I don't know if the Panthers are going to let any of those guys go without a fight.

getlynched47
01-16-2011, 02:10 AM
If you are married I bet your wife hates you.

I'm a college student who was so bored at watching the dirty birds get slaughtered by the cheese-heads, that I decided to do this write up.

No wife. No kids. No problem ;)

BeefStew25
01-16-2011, 02:16 AM
I'm a college student who was so bored at watching the dirty birds get slaughtered by the cheese-heads, that I decided to do this write up.

No wife. No kids. No problem ;)

Duly noted. My apologies. Now scare up some coeds.

Superchop 7
01-16-2011, 02:21 AM
Ed Johnson should be highlighted. Once his knee is healthy.....he is a beast.

Montana Battlin Bear
01-16-2011, 02:59 AM
I'm thinking about pulling cartman's trick to freeze myself until each time that they bring in someone new... I hate the offseason

cuzz4169
01-16-2011, 04:39 AM
Im sure we have a shot at most of these guys bc players loved john fox in carolina. I like anderson, johnson and williams, williams is 5X The back Moreno is when healthy 1500yds 18 tds just 2 yrs ago then followed by 1100 yards. Was banged up this yr though. Not a fan of king. Need a receiving TE if we cut graham we have quinn and gronkowski to block. I would like scaife from Tennessee. As for cb I wouldn't mind taking a look at johnathan joseph. I also like Thomas Davis to he could be cheap coming of the injury.

sneakers
01-16-2011, 05:01 AM
If you are married I bet your wife hates you.

I was gonna say something to that effect.

sneakers
01-16-2011, 05:02 AM
I'm thinking about pulling cartman's trick to freeze myself until each time that they bring in someone new... I hate the offseason

WHY DO YOU NEED TABLES WHEN YOU HAVE PERFECT GOOD TUMMIES?

lol

claymore
01-16-2011, 08:45 AM
I want to see Knowshon in the new offense before I label him a bust. McD's offense was TERRIBLE.

CoachChaz
01-16-2011, 11:15 AM
If Lendale is healthy, I'm okay with Moreno/Buck/White. I think that will be a solid stable in the new offense.

My biggest grief would be justifying the money we'll be spending on Doom to be a situational player. Amongst others, I've been saying Ayers needs to be a 4-3 DE since he was drafted, but Doom just flat out cannot play against the run. If we move to a 4-3, he should be shopped. Again...I just cant see paying him all that money to play 3rd downs

cuzz4169
01-16-2011, 11:47 AM
If Lendale is healthy, I'm okay with Moreno/Buck/White. I think that will be a solid stable in the new offense.

My biggest grief would be justifying the money we'll be spending on Doom to be a situational player. Amongst others, I've been saying Ayers needs to be a 4-3 DE since he was drafted, but Doom just flat out cannot play against the run. If we move to a 4-3, he should be shopped. Again...I just cant see paying him all that money to play 3rd downs

Are you mcdaniels? U trade ur best defensive player? Lol that's insane. So colts should trade freeny and mathis bc they suck against the run. How about u put people around him.

Ziggy
01-16-2011, 11:57 AM
How about Kalil? 2 Pro Bowls in 4 years, and he knows the blocking scheme. As much as I liked the JD Walton pick a year ago, Kalil would be a huge upgrade at center.

GEM
01-16-2011, 12:32 PM
If Lendale is healthy, I'm okay with Moreno/Buck/White. I think that will be a solid stable in the new offense.

My biggest grief would be justifying the money we'll be spending on Doom to be a situational player. Amongst others, I've been saying Ayers needs to be a 4-3 DE since he was drafted, but Doom just flat out cannot play against the run. If we move to a 4-3, he should be shopped. Again...I just cant see paying him all that money to play 3rd downs

I can't wait to see what LenDale can do. I was excited about him in the preseason last year. Shit luck on the injury.

atwater27
01-16-2011, 12:38 PM
QB Matt Moore, 26 years old (yo)

RB DeAngelo Williams, 27 yo

TE Dante Rosario, 25 yo

C Ryan Kalil, 25 yo


DT Nick Hayden, 24 yo

LB Thomas Davis, 27 yo

I'd take those guys....

BroncoStud
01-16-2011, 12:40 PM
If DeAngelo Williams isn't too expensive we would be IDIOTS not to sign him. He's instantly BY FAR the best RB on this roster. It's not close. I could care less what LenDale White looked like last offseason, he isn't 1/10th RB DeAngelo is. It's a no-brainer...

IF he isn't too expensive.

UnderArmour
01-16-2011, 01:06 PM
How about Kalil? 2 Pro Bowls in 4 years, and he knows the blocking scheme. As much as I liked the JD Walton pick a year ago, Kalil would be a huge upgrade at center.

There is absolutely no way Carolina lets him go. If somehow he did wind up on the open market, I would love to have this guy. Carolina will franchise tag him or Johnson(They'll let DeAngelo walk) and I feel like it will be Kalil that gets tagged. Either way, both Kalil and DeAngelo are tier 1 Free agents.

EMB6903
01-16-2011, 01:24 PM
I remember I was praying Denver drafted Kalil after he dropped to us in the 2nd...

I think Denver took a guy by the name of Tim Crowder instead.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2011, 04:18 PM
How about Kalil? 2 Pro Bowls in 4 years, and he knows the blocking scheme. As much as I liked the JD Walton pick a year ago, Kalil would be a huge upgrade at center.

Kick Kalil to guard and move Beadles to RT to cover for Harris and I think we'll be alright.

BORDERLINE
01-16-2011, 05:09 PM
instead of getting d.williams we should go after M.Bush...
I liked him coming out of college and he is an explosive power back
but, we do need to get some guys who are experienced in the offense Fox will run

Riveralution
01-16-2011, 05:19 PM
Williams, Marshall, and I suppose Davis are the only real possibilities, though all 3 have openly stated they'd like to remain in Carolina with it well known Fox would be leaving.

Kalil, Johnson, Anderson won't be going anywhere I assure you.

King is more than likely gone, so I guess he's the only "sure-fire"
Rivera made it known in his opening press conference that he wants a do-it-all TE, something King hasn't provided.

I'm kind of confused as to why you guy's think we're not going to resign ANY of our Free Agents.
Our team's philosophy has always been to build through the draft and retain our players. It's where most of our cap space goes to.

Sinthor
01-17-2011, 01:39 AM
If Lendale is healthy, I'm okay with Moreno/Buck/White. I think that will be a solid stable in the new offense.

My biggest grief would be justifying the money we'll be spending on Doom to be a situational player. Amongst others, I've been saying Ayers needs to be a 4-3 DE since he was drafted, but Doom just flat out cannot play against the run. If we move to a 4-3, he should be shopped. Again...I just cant see paying him all that money to play 3rd downs

I agree here. We just gave Doom what, a $50 million dollar contract? If you remember when he started here and we were a 4-3, he did not do well. He's undersized by FAR for a DE and he only came in on obvious pass rushing downs. That's not a player you pay $50 million to (can't remember the exact number but it was presented as a big time contract). So going to a 4-3 automatically means that we trade him. I mean, why keep a guy that only plays on some third downs and that you're paying that kind of money? Basically, we're set up for a 3-4 now. Last year we weren't, now we are. How good are we set? I think only better coaching would answer that. I think Fox already mentioned running a hybrid, which we were basically doing this past year anyway.

But the bottom line is, if and when we go to a 4-3 full time, it will be the end for Doom in a Broncos uniform. That is, unless he could magically transfer into a great 4-3 linebacker, which is doubtful. Good grief...McD just SCREWED us is SOOO many ways it's unbelievable. Hell, at least of our defense had been decent we wouldn't have to even WORRY about the question of whether to stay or go back! About the only thing we really seem to have is the tools for a good passing offense with question marks still in the O-Line (are they good enough) the running game (is the line good enough, is Moreno the guy) and at QB (will Tebow be consistent and continue to improve?) Unbelievable! I really don't envy the new coaching staff even though I keep reading that the Broncos aren't as far away as many people think due to coaching and key injuries, etc. We'll see!

cuzz4169
01-17-2011, 04:40 AM
I agree here. We just gave Doom what, a $50 million dollar contract? If you remember when he started here and we were a 4-3, he did not do well. He's undersized by FAR for a DE and he only came in on obvious pass rushing downs. That's not a player you pay $50 million to (can't remember the exact number but it was presented as a big time contract). So going to a 4-3 automatically means that we trade him. I mean, why keep a guy that only plays on some third downs and that you're paying that kind of money? Basically, we're set up for a 3-4 now. Last year we weren't, now we are. How good are we set? I think only better coaching would answer that. I think Fox already mentioned running a hybrid, which we were basically doing this past year anyway.

But the bottom line is, if and when we go to a 4-3 full time, it will be the end for Doom in a Broncos unifsorm. That is, unless he could magically transfer into a great 4-3 linebacker, which is doubtful. Good grief...McD just SCREWED us is SOOO many ways it's unbelievable. Hell, at least of our defense had been decent we wouldn't have to even WORRY about the question of whether to stay or go back! About the only thing we really seem to have is the tools for a good passing offense with question marks still in the O-Line (are they good enough) the running game (is the line good enough, is Moreno the guy) and at QB (will Tebow be consistent and continue to improve?) Unbelievable! I really don't envy the new coaching staff even though I keep reading that the Broncos aren't as far away as many people think due to coaching and key injuries, etc. We'll see!

What are you smoking !!?? Elvis is our best player on defense u guys r nuts if u think a coach who just had a undersized DE get 11.5 sacks for him is gonna trade a player with 2x the ability of johnson your smoking something...john fox isn't josh mcdaniels he wont trade away his best players.

rcsodak
01-17-2011, 09:44 AM
How about Kalil? 2 Pro Bowls in 4 years, and he knows the blocking scheme. As much as I liked the JD Walton pick a year ago, Kalil would be a huge upgrade at center.
Kalil is considered top 5 OC in the league. He'd be tough to get.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

SOCALORADO.
01-17-2011, 10:09 AM
Brought my thread over from mania:

http://walterfootball.com/freeagentscontractscar.php

QB Matt Moore, 26 years old (yo)

RB DeAngelo Williams, 27 yo

TE Jeff King, 27 yo

TE Dante Rosario, 25 yo

C Ryan Kalil, 25 yo

DE Charles Johnson, 24 yo

DT Ed Johnson, 26 yo

DT Nick Hayden, 24 yo

LB Thomas Davis, 27 yo

LB James Anderson, 26 yo

LB Jamar Williams, 26 yo

*CB Richard Marshall*, 25 yo

CB C.J. Wilson, 25 yo

The guys' names that I bolded are who I would like to pick up this offseason for a number of reasons:

Pairing DeAngelo Williams with Knowshon Moreno would be a dream. It won't be cheap, however. Williams might also steal a lot of carries from Moreno and not allow Moreno to become the feature back we all hope he becomes next season. Still, it would be a useful luxury.

Tight End Jeff King is a real possibility. He's a blocking tight end (6'3, 260 lbs) with average pass-catching skills. Personally, I'd like us to unload Daniel Graham's enormous contract and pick up a younger, cheaper player in Jeff King. He also lined up as a fullback at times, alternating with the Panther's fullback Tony Fiammetta. I expect us to get rid of an underwhelming fullback in Spencer Larsen and get a true fullback who can pave the way for Knowshon Moreno, and King can do that at either fullback or tight end.

I'd like us to move back to the 4-3 defense because I feel that we never really had the personnel to run an effective 3-4. Moving to a 4-3 would allow Robert Ayers to play defensive end (he should never have been an outside linebacker in the NFL) and be more effective IMO. If we're going to do that, we need a defensive end opposite Robert Ayers.
I know people are going to say, "well we have Elvis Dumervil". But he should not be a defensive end in our base defense aimed at stopping the run. He can be an extremely effective situational pass-rusher because he excels at rushing the passer.
Get Charles Johnson to start opposite Robert Ayers. He's great against the run (6'2, 275 lbs), and an even better pass-rusher (11.5 sacks in 2010). With Ayers and Johnson at defensive end, and some beef in the middle of our 4-3 defense (Bannan, Vickerson?), we should be stout against the run.

Finally, bring linebacker James Anderson over here. He's a 6'2, 235 lbs linebacker that started 15 games for the Panthers in 2010 at SLB. The guy totaled 130 tackles and 3.5 sacks from the strongside Linebacker spot!! He's an under-the-radar free agent pickup that would not be expensive, and would be a productive linebacker for us. Then just plug DJ Williams (or Mario Haggan/ Joe Mays) at middle linebacker and Wesley Woodyard at weakside linebacker.

I truly believe Wesley Woodyard has earned a starting spot, and his best position is weakside linebacker in a 4-3 defense. SLB- James Anderson, MLB- DJ Williams, WLB- Wesley Woodyard would be an explosive, athletic linebacking core that are also all tough, gritty guys.

__________________________________________________ ______________

I underline cornerback Richard Marshall's name for a reason. This is a tough call. I'd much rather us re-sign Champ Bailey, but if he happens to choose not to stay with the Denver Broncos, then I think we need to go after Richard Marshall. With the uncertainty of Perrish Cox (possibly facing jail time), we need a cornerback to start opposite Andre Goodman. Richard Marshall is a young cornerback who more than held his own opposite Chris Gamble in Carolina.
Gamble is an excellent cornerback, so Richard Marshall was picked on early and often. Yet he held his own and has a knack for making plays. He's also a sure tackler that can develop into an elite cornerback in the NFL given proper coaching.
The problem: He'd be more expensive than re-signing Champ Bailey
That's why I wasn't sure whether to bold his name or not, so I underlined it :D

__________________________________________________ _________________

Here's the main reason I mention DeAngelo Williams:

To protect Tim Tebow, we HAVE to have a dominant running game in 2011.

To have a great running game, you must have 2 excellent running backs or 1 elite running back.
Example- The top 5 rushing teams in the NFL in 2010

+ Kansas City Chiefs: Jamaal Charles, Thomas Jones
+ Oakland Raiders: Darren McFadden, Michael Bush
+ Jacksonville Jaguars: Maurice Jones-Drew, Rashad Jennings (He had almost 500 yards rushing)
+ New York Jets: LaDainian Tomlinson, Shonne Greene
+ Philadelphia Eagles: LeSean McCoy, Michael Vick (nearly 700 yards rushing)

Clearly, it takes an effective 1-2 punch to get a great running game going. Knowshon Moreno is not elite. Not yet. But I do consider him an excellent running back who has not been playing in the right system. He'd excel in a ZBS-oriented offense like the Panthers ran in Carolina.
Moreno has dealt with poor run-blocking and minor injuries the past 2 seasons, but I truly believe the 3rd year will be the charm for him.
DeAngelo Williams is not an elite running back, but he's darn near close when at 100%.

Pair Knowshon and DeAngelo Williams, and you've got yourself excellent protection for Tim Tebow.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Anyways.....thank you for reading through this huge post (if you did). I'd love to hear your feedback/ ideas. :salute:


Big NO on Thomas Davis. Hes torn his right ACL twice in 2 years.
Kalil and Johnson are not goin anywhere, and anyone who thinks they are, is dreaming.

RB DeAngelo Williams, OLB James Anderson and CB Richard Marshall should all be sought after hard by Fox.
I have no doubt Fox has already made preliminary calls and had talks with all of their agents as to them being part of his plans in DEN, in a non football sorta way of course.
Marshall and Williams had issues with ownership to an extent last season and neither contract was ever really dealt with. How CAR didnt trade Williams during the season is a real mystery to alot of fans. Marshall was pissed all season for not getting a long term extension, so i think both would walk in a hearbeat.
As for James Anderson, he would be a HUGE upgrade at LB.
SEA OLB David Hawthorne is also a FA. He can play ILB or OLB in a 4-3 and has been productive in either spot.
NYJ ILB David Harris is a FA as well, and would be the biggest FA pick up of the year. If DEN stayed in a 3-4 of course.

Lonestar
01-17-2011, 10:30 AM
If Lendale is healthy, I'm okay with Moreno/Buck/White. I think that will be a solid stable in the new offense.

My biggest grief would be justifying the money we'll be spending on Doom to be a situational player. Amongst others, I've been saying Ayers needs to be a 4-3 DE since he was drafted, but Doom just flat out cannot play against the run. If we move to a 4-3, he should be shopped. Again...I just cant see paying him all that money to play 3rd downs

A voice ofreason Doom has alwaysbeen aonetrick pony.

If We do indeedgo back to 4-3 hewill see very little time on the field.

Might not even break a sweat. I can for seelots muscle pulls for him comingin cold

Juriga72
01-17-2011, 10:32 AM
So your saying.... "We neede to get players from a 2-14 team to IMPROVE us"????


really....wow.

So we need people off the 32nd ranked offesne to improve us. We need guys off the 31st ranked O-line to help us out...

wow.... just wow

Lonestar
01-17-2011, 10:45 AM
I agree here. We just gave Doom what, a $50 million dollar contract? If you remember when he started here and we were a 4-3, he did not do well. He's undersized by FAR for a DE and he only came in on obvious pass rushing downs. Good grief...McD just SCREWED us is SOOO many ways it's unbelievable. Hell, at least of our defense had been decent we wouldn't have to even WORRY about the question of whether to stay or go back! About the only thing we really seem to have is the tools for a good passing offense with question marks still in the O-Line (are they good enough) the running game (is the line good enough, is Moreno the guy) and at QB (will Tebow be consistent and continue to improve?) Unbelievable! I really don't envy the new coaching staff even though I keep reading that the Broncos aren't as far away as many people think due to coaching and key injuries, etc. We'll see!

Lets see how many folkswere clamerimg we cant afford to lose doom pay him.

Nowyour saying it is Joshes fault.

Doom was the savior of the franchise Remember.

Krugan
01-17-2011, 11:23 AM
Not sure why everyone thinks doom cant play in a 4-3, he started out in a 4-3 and produced from there.

Other pass rushers play 3 downs and force the issue from there, one trick ponies seems to be the favorite word.

Guessing people here wouldnt approve of having freeney either.

either you can rush the passer or your cant, and doom has shown he can with 43 sacks in 4 full years

Lets take a talent poor, underachieving defense and remove one of the few people who has shown at least a smidge of consistancy, on a defense which has featured a revolving door of assistant coaches for the last few years and empty what little talent is left.

Amazing

SoCalImport
01-17-2011, 01:05 PM
So your saying.... "We neede to get players from a 2-14 team to IMPROVE us"????


really....wow.

So we need people off the 32nd ranked offesne to improve us. We need guys off the 31st ranked O-line to help us out...

wow.... just wow

A bit of a blanket statement don't you think?
It's an NFL team with NFL players. Everyone mentioned in the tread has worth and are good players. If the Broncos are to judge all people involved in the mess that was the 2010 Panthers then I'd be most concerned with the fact that we gave the keys to our car to there HC. (I'm not concerned btw)
DeAngelo Williams in particular is an obvious stud...
So I don't understand where you're coming from with this.
We're not exactly worldbeaters ourselves.

Juriga72
01-17-2011, 01:22 PM
A bit of a blanket statement don't you think?
It's an NFL team with NFL players. Everyone mentioned in the tread has worth and are good players. If the Broncos are to judge all people involved in the mess that was the 2010 Panthers then I'd be most concerned with the fact that we gave the keys to our car to there HC. (I'm not concerned btw)
DeAngelo Williams in particular is an obvious stud...
So I don't understand where you're coming from with this.
We're not exactly worldbeaters ourselves.

Uh... I think its pretty obvious....... Who will we trade? You seem to think we somehow need offensive players, when our defense is utterly pathetic.


Hmmmmm Lets see.. I have heard this somewhere before..... "Yup... we have a terrible defense... LETS fix the offensive!!!"

How'd that work ouot for ole Josh?

Agent of Orange
01-17-2011, 01:45 PM
Id take Ryan Kalil.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2011, 04:56 PM
Uh... I think its pretty obvious....... Who will we trade? You seem to think we somehow need offensive players, when our defense is utterly pathetic.


Hmmmmm Lets see.. I have heard this somewhere before..... "Yup... we have a terrible defense... LETS fix the offensive!!!"

How'd that work ouot for ole Josh?

Well, seeing as how this all refers to pending FREE AGENTS no trades will be required. :welcome:

I'd love to see John Fox have the inside track at signing guys like DeAngelo Williams, Richard Marshall, Ryan Kalil, Thomas Davis, Ed Johnson, etc.

The same way that whoever hires McDouchebag will have the upper hand at trading for Orton... :lol:

Lonestar
01-17-2011, 05:51 PM
Not sure why everyone thinks doom cant play in a 4-3, he started out in a 4-3 and produced from there.

Other pass rushers play 3 downs and force the issue from there, one trick ponies seems to be the favorite word.

Guessing people here wouldnt approve of having freeney either.

either you can rush the passer or your cant, and doom has shown he can with 43 sacks in 4 full years

Lets take a talent poor, underachieving defense and remove one of the few people who has shown at least a smidge of consistancy, on a defense which has featured a revolving door of assistant coaches for the last few years and empty what little talent is left.

Amazing


Yet freeny can actually play the run an amazing concept.


Yes Doom can play DE and will rush the passer, but if we do not stop their running games he will never be on the field.

So lets burn $50,000,000.00 on some one that does not play but passing downs.

I'm not sure why anyone besides myself does not see this.

JDL
01-17-2011, 06:50 PM
Yet freeny can actually play the run an amazing concept.


Yes Doom can play DE and will rush the passer, but if we do not stop their running games he will never be on the field.

So lets burn $50,000,000.00 on some one that does not play but passing downs.

I'm not sure why anyone besides myself does not see this.

Derrick Thomas was pretty dang average against the run... it didn't stop them from building a scheme around him (where towards the end he just lined up at the DE position anyway with a hand on the ground sometimes.) Fox will build a scheme that enhances the best attributes of his players and minimizes their faults... not worried about it at all... we aren't some uncreative defense now looking to force guys like DJ to play all over the field out of their comfort zone... DJ was and always will be a WLB and it was dumb to move him all over the place... he is a chase LB... I don't know what he is anymore he is so screwed up from our past coaching

topscribe
01-17-2011, 07:01 PM
@getlynched47 Super plan. I like it, except that I believe Dumervil would be okay
at Will. I know he will never be a stalwart against the run, but Freeney was
never exceptionally good at that, either, and Doom is as good, or better, at
the pass rush. Woodyard, who is an exceptional tackler, as I understand, behind
him would be great there, IMO.

I have high hopes for Mays. Of all the LBs who have gone in and out of the
roster over the years, Mays reminds me more of Al Wilson than anyone else.
If he can be the force that I suspect he may be able to be, then D.J. could
bring some draft value back to the Broncos . . .

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2011, 07:25 PM
@getlynched47 Super plan. I like it, except that I believe Dumervil would be okay
at Will. I know he will never be a stalwart against the run, but Freeney was
never exceptionally good at that, either, and Doom is as good, or better, at
the pass rush. Woodyard, who is an exceptional tackler, as I understand, behind
him would be great there, IMO.

I have high hopes for Mays. Of all the LBs who have gone in and out of the
roster over the years, Mays reminds me more of Al Wilson than anyone else.
If he can be the force that I suspect he may be able to be, then D.J. could
bring some draft value back to the Broncos . . .

-----

Yeah, I like the "pop" that Mays brings, too. He's one of those "lay the wood and get the rest of the defense fired up" kind of guys.

Krugan
01-17-2011, 08:18 PM
Yet freeny can actually play the run an amazing concept.


Yes Doom can play DE and will rush the passer, but if we do not stop their running games he will never be on the field.

So lets burn $50,000,000.00 on some one that does not play but passing downs.

I'm not sure why anyone besides myself does not see this.

Freeney is a liabilty agaisnt the run. Always up field that one. seems to always be around the QB's feet. Never seems to be in a gap, just up field and in the QBs face.

Wish we would have had something like that this year...

tell me doom at 4-3 end or 3-4 lb, wasnt missed this year in the least.

Not going to go thru this whole mess with you, again. You are dead set on that one track, with the kid.

Gotta spend money to have talent, gotta spend money to get to the QB. Joe Schmoe just doesnt cut it.

cuzz4169
01-17-2011, 10:19 PM
Yet freeny can actually play the run an amazing concept.


Yes Doom can play DE and will rush the passer, but if we do not stop their running games he will never be on the field.

So lets burn $50,000,000.00 on some one that does not play but passing downs.

I'm not sure why anyone besides myself does not see this.

Its not just about Doom stopping the run...you get him some help around him and its no big deal. Freeny does not play the run well...Does Mathis? only a couple DE in the league who can do both that are all out studs.

Lonestar
01-18-2011, 02:06 AM
Its not just about Doom stopping the run...you get him some help around him and its no big deal. Freeny does not play the run well...Does Mathis? only a couple DE in the league who can do both that are all out studs.


Just because INDY chooses to have two no run stoppers on their team does not mean we have to.

BTW just how many Super bowls have they won?

How many times have they got their asses kicked in the playoffs.


I think spending that kind of money on ONE player that is handicapped in what he can do is dumb.

rcsodak
01-18-2011, 07:27 AM
Just because INDY chooses to have two no run stoppers on their team does not mean we have to.

BTW just how many Super bowls have they won?

How many times have they got their asses kicked in the playoffs.


I think spending that kind of money on ONE player that is handicapped in what he can do is dumb.
Well, too late now....and nobody will trade for him at that price after missing all of last year. Let's just hope that doom has beefed up and comes back an even better, more rounded player.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

G_Money
01-18-2011, 11:56 AM
Doom is gonna be with us for a while. His guaranteed money + his front-loaded contract + his injury means nobody is trading for him this year. He has a HUGE salary cap figure even once the CBA is resolved. Maybe even higher after the new CBA comes out.

I'd still move back to the 4-3. I can suffer with Doom as our pass rusher and making schemes for him to contribute in for a year or two until he is tradable. Draft a DE and let him learn the game for a couple of years. It's not a big thing. Charles Johnson at DE would be nice if we could swing it, but I don't expect it.

And I'd enjoy seeing James Anderson as the Sam linebacker, too. I'd try to trade DJ to open up some cash, add Greg Jones in the draft at the Mike, and let him push a guy like Haggan for playing time, which shouldn't be hard.

And I don't think Champ comes back so we have a CB problem to solve - i agree with getlynched though that Richard Marshall would cost too much. No deal there.

Excellent rundown, GL47. :salute:

~G

cuzz4169
01-18-2011, 01:31 PM
Just because INDY chooses to have two no run stoppers on their team does not mean we have to.

BTW just how many Super bowls have they won?

How many times have they got their asses kicked in the playoffs.


I think spending that kind of money on ONE player that is handicapped in what he can do is dumb.

lol are you for real trying to take shots at the colts success?!

here is a list of DE's who are nothing special against the run.

John Abraham, Jason Babin, Osi Umenyiora, Charles Johnson, Robert Mathis, Chris Clemons, Dwight Freeney, Trent Cole, Raheem Brock

these guys had 9+ sacks last year. And are not that good against the run...I would take any one of them on the Broncos. There isn't many 4-3 DE's who are studs all around...4-3 DE's get paid for sacks, OLB's in a 3-4 get paid for sacks...Have you ever heard that DE is a great run stopper but he can't get to the QB......lets pay him!? Or man that OLB is great in coverage but cant get to the QB.....lets pay him!? You either have a DE who's an absolute stud pass rusher or one who's a big physical run stopper....I can name 3 off the top of my head who can do both Peppers, Mario Williams, Justin Tuck. Jarred Allen maybe. These guys are special players. Not many of these guys in the league.

Instead of whining about what Dumervil can't do how about we be pumped that he will help us get more than 23 sacks in a season!!!!! (worst in league) and we get some run stopping talent around him!!!

Northman
01-18-2011, 01:43 PM
Without reading through this thread i just want to say lets be careful about who we try and sign from Carolina if it comes down to that. We dont want another repeat of what happened the last two years. Its ok to look at some of those players but lets not get crazy and start signing guys just because they were Fox's former players.

G_Money
01-18-2011, 01:54 PM
To be fair, the last 2 years McDaniels was going to NE to get mostly-terrible players that he liked better than whatever was on our roster.

Carolina has some decent players at the positions the OP highlighted, and especially on D they'd be replacing the equivalent of 12 year olds with glandular problems.

I don't want us to go crazy bringing in Panthers to play for us either, but at a couple of positions of dire need where we could see immediate improvement due to increased talent and inherent familiarity with the system?

I'm down with that.

~G

Northman
01-18-2011, 01:55 PM
To be fair, the last 2 years McDaniels was going to NE to get mostly-terrible players that he liked better than whatever was on our roster.

Carolina has some decent players at the positions the OP highlighted, and especially on D they'd be replacing the equivalent of 12 year olds with glandular problems.

I don't want us to go crazy bringing in Panthers to play for us either, but at a couple of positions of dire need where we could see immediate improvement due to increased talent and inherent familiarity with the system?

I'm down with that.

~G


Pretty much what i was getting at. Just need to be smarter and more selective instead of signing just for the sake of signing if you know what i mean.

G_Money
01-18-2011, 02:09 PM
Right.

My concern with McCoy, for example, is that he might be an example of an "I know that guy and he worked for me before so he can probably do the job" mentality instead of getting the best person for the job. I don't want to go there with players either, trust me.

~G

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 02:32 PM
Any of these guys would be huge upgrades.
FA
Carl Nicks (NO)
Logan Mankins (NE)
Ryan Kalil (CAR)

Mathias Kiwanuka (NYG)
Charles Johnson (CAR)
Brandon Mebane (SEA)

DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Michael Bush (OAK)
Ronnie Brown (MIA)

Chad Greenway (MIN)
Stephen Tulloch (TEN)
Paul Posluszny (BUF)
James Anderson (CAR)
David Vobora (STL)

Richard Marshall (CAR)
Johnathan Joseph (CIN)

Roman Harper (NO)
Eric Weddle (SD)
Dawan Landry (BAL)
Bernard Pollard (HOU)

Northman
01-18-2011, 02:35 PM
Any of these guys would be huge upgrades.
FA

Logan Mankins (NE)


Mathias Kiwanuka (NYG)


DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Ronnie Brown (MIA)

Chad Greenway (MIN)
Paul Posluszny (BUF)


Johnathan Joseph (CIN)

Roman Harper (NO)
Eric Weddle (SD)
Dawan Landry (BAL)



I would be real interested in these guys.

Lonestar
01-18-2011, 02:37 PM
lol are you for real trying to take shots at the colts success?!

here is a list of DE's who are nothing special against the run.

John Abraham, Jason Babin, Osi Umenyiora, Charles Johnson, Robert Mathis, Chris Clemons, Dwight Freeney, Trent Cole, Raheem Brock

these guys had 9+ sacks last year. And are not that good against the run...I would take any one of them on the Broncos. There isn't many 4-3 DE's who are studs all around...4-3 DE's get paid for sacks, OLB's in a 3-4 get paid for sacks...Have you ever heard that DE is a great run stopper but he can't get to the QB......lets pay him!? Or man that OLB is great in coverage but cant get to the QB.....lets pay him!? You either have a DE who's an absolute stud pass rusher or one who's a big physical run stopper....I can name 3 off the top of my head who can do both Peppers, Mario Williams, Justin Tuck. Jarred Allen maybe. These guys are special players. Not many of these guys in the league.

Instead of whining about what Dumervil can't do how about we be pumped that he will help us get more than 23 sacks in a season!!!!! (worst in league) and we get some run stopping talent around him!!!

SO your OK with paying Doom $1,041,666.67 per game over the next 3 years of actual play for the maybe 50 sacks he gets or a $1,000,000.00 (million dollars) a sack?

while being a liability for perhaps 6 downs per possesion.

Make ZERO sense to me. Glad your not running my company.

Lonestar
01-18-2011, 02:40 PM
Any of these guys would be huge upgrades.
FA
Carl Nicks (NO)
Logan Mankins (NE)
Ryan Kalil (CAR)

Mathias Kiwanuka (NYG)
Charles Johnson (CAR)
Brandon Mebane (SEA)

DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Michael Bush (OAK)
Ronnie Brown (MIA)

Chad Greenway (MIN)
Stephen Tulloch (TEN)
Paul Posluszny (BUF)
James Anderson (CAR)
David Vobora (STL)

Richard Marshall (CAR)
Johnathan Joseph (CIN)

Roman Harper (NO)
Eric Weddle (SD)
Dawan Landry (BAL)
Bernard Pollard (HOU)

would be really helpful for MOST of us if you would have said what positions they played.

Not everyone in a NFL wonk.

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 02:43 PM
would be really helpful for MOST of us if you would have said what positions they played.

Not everyone in a NFL wonk.

FA
OL
Carl Nicks (NO)
Logan Mankins (NE)
Ryan Kalil (CAR)
DL/DE
Mathias Kiwanuka (NYG)
Charles Johnson (CAR)
Brandon Mebane (SEA)
RB
DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Michael Bush (OAK)
Ronnie Brown (MIA)
LB
Chad Greenway (MIN)
Stephen Tulloch (TEN)
Paul Posluszny (BUF)
James Anderson (CAR)
David Vobora (STL)
CB
Richard Marshall (CAR)
Johnathan Joseph (CIN)
S
Roman Harper (NO)
Eric Weddle (SD)
Dawan Landry (BAL)
Bernard Pollard (HOU)

Lonestar
01-18-2011, 02:46 PM
To be fair, the last 2 years McDaniels was going to NE to get mostly-terrible players that he liked better than whatever was on our roster.

Carolina has some decent players at the positions the OP highlighted, and especially on D they'd be replacing the equivalent of 12 year olds with glandular problems.

I don't want us to go crazy bringing in Panthers to play for us either, but at a couple of positions of dire need where we could see immediate improvement due to increased talent and inherent familiarity with the system?

I'm down with that.

~G

Just might have been because they WERE BETTER than what we had on our roster when he came to town..

I might give y'all hockstien but I truly believe he was just insurance.

Because our OLINE had ZERO depth.. unless of course anyone wanted to believe that polumbus was an answer for the future.

Think he saw what I did that Hamilton was the weak link and would have to be replaced.

cuzz4169
01-18-2011, 02:52 PM
To be fair, the last 2 years McDaniels was going to NE to get mostly-terrible players that he liked better than whatever was on our roster.

Carolina has some decent players at the positions the OP highlighted, and especially on D they'd be replacing the equivalent of 12 year olds with glandular problems.

I don't want us to go crazy bringing in Panthers to play for us either, but at a couple of positions of dire need where we could see immediate improvement due to increased talent and inherent familiarity with the system?

I'm down with that.

~G

I agree...One thing people forget is not every player is a starter. Special teams players and depth is always good.

I really think we need D. Williams. Moreno needs some competition at the RB position maybe his little soft ass will participate in all of the off season stuff with someone pushing him and not act hurt when he wipes his ass. Plus Williams is a stud when healthy and gives us a much needed game breaker at a skilled position.

James Anderson would be a huge upgrade if we could some how get him.

Thomas Davis was a star in the making before injuries. If he could be grabbed cheap coming off of the injuries that would be good. Even if he wasn't used a lot this year he is only 27 just get him on our roster if he comes back healthy good, if not we didn't invest a lot of money to sign him. all depends on the price. But I think he will be cheap not a lot of people probably willing to give him big dollars.

Richard Marshall I would only sign him if we lose champ. But I like these 3 guys more: Brent Grimes, Carlos Rogers & Johnathan Joseph but only if we lose champ. Champ & Goodman are a good CB duo if we get a nice defensive front.

cuzz4169
01-18-2011, 03:03 PM
SO your OK with paying Doom $1,041,666.67 per game over the next 3 years of actual play for the maybe 50 sacks he gets or a $1,000,000.00 (million dollars) a sack?

while being a liability for perhaps 6 downs per possesion.

Make ZERO sense to me. Glad your not running my company.

Uhh if you break it down like that all players in the NFL are overpaid.

So him getting double teamed freeing up another player doesn't figure into that money? his QB pressures don't figure into that? his sacks on third down which = to a turnover doesn't figure into that? His forced fumbles doesn't figure into that? His 40+ tackles don't count for that $? Just the fact that an OC has to game plan to block him doesn't figure into that $? Who on the broncos was that guy this year!!!??? He is capable of winning your team 2-3 games by himself with all that he brings. If he played this past year is Denver 4-12? maybe 6-10 or 7-9....Does Sanchez get that pass off for the interference call? He gets paid bc he's a difference maker on defense not bc he will have 100 tackles in a season!!

oh and I'm glad your not the GM of the Broncos.

Lonestar
01-18-2011, 03:10 PM
Uhh if you break it down like that all players in the NFL are overpaid.

So him getting double teamed freeing up another player doesn't figure into that money? his QB pressures don't figure into that? his sacks on third down which = to a turnover doesn't figure into that? His forced fumbles doesn't figure into that? His 40+ tackles don't count for that $? Just the fact that an OC has to game plan to block him doesn't figure into that $? Who on the broncos was that guy this year!!!??? He is capable of winning your team 2-3 games by himself with all that he brings. If he played this past year is Denver 4-12? maybe 6-10 or 7-9....Does Sanchez get that pass off for the interference call? He gets paid bc he's a difference maker on defense not bc he will have 100 tackles in a season!!

oh and I'm glad your not the GM of the Broncos.

I get it your his brother in law.

I would not spend that kind of money on a one trick pony especially in the 4-3 .

I hope I'm wrong but I susepct that I'm not.

Maybe we could trade him to a team for some top choices and get out from under his fat contract..

cuzz4169
01-18-2011, 03:19 PM
I get it your his brother in law.

I would not spend that kind of money on a one trick pony especially in the 4-3 .

I hope I'm wrong but I susepct that I'm not.

Maybe we could trade him to a team for some top choices and get out from under his fat contract..

I wish lol....Anyone who would trade arguably are best defensive player is out of their mind. In no way could we get = value for him. Denver will be trying to build a good defense and by trading away your best player is not a good start.

Denver has 3 blue chip players....Dumervil, Bailey & Clady. So say we lose Bailey FA...Then trade Dumervil...nice!! great start as a coach. Dumervil is only 26.

cuzz4169
01-18-2011, 03:25 PM
I get it your his brother in law.

I would not spend that kind of money on a one trick pony especially in the 4-3 .

I hope I'm wrong but I susepct that I'm not.

Maybe we could trade him to a team for some top choices and get out from under his fat contract..

Another thing I don't think you get. so who do you plug in at RE? either you can pass rush or you can't at RE. You would rather have an inexpensive guy who is avg? Bc there are only and I mean I can count on one hand a few absolute studs, guys who do it all at the DE position. We missed out on one last yr Peppers. Ill take the game changer in Dumervil with his below avg. defense against the run, you can have the avg guys. if we go 4-3 your DE's have to get pressure would be nice not to blitz to get pressure from front 4...How much better is champ and Goodman if we can do that?

dogfish
01-18-2011, 04:23 PM
Any of these guys would be huge upgrades.
FA
Carl Nicks (NO)
Logan Mankins (NE)
Ryan Kalil (CAR)

Mathias Kiwanuka (NYG)
Charles Johnson (CAR)
Brandon Mebane (SEA)

DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Michael Bush (OAK)
Ronnie Brown (MIA)

Chad Greenway (MIN)
Stephen Tulloch (TEN)
Paul Posluszny (BUF)
James Anderson (CAR)
David Vobora (STL)

Richard Marshall (CAR)
Johnathan Joseph (CIN)

Roman Harper (NO)
Eric Weddle (SD)
Dawan Landry (BAL)
Bernard Pollard (HOU)

what, no david hawthorne?


:noidea:

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 05:03 PM
what, no david hawthorne?


:noidea:

I believe he signed an extension with SEA through next season.
:mad:

dogfish
01-18-2011, 05:31 PM
I believe he signed an extension with SEA through next season.
:mad:

that bastage!

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 05:51 PM
that bastage!

Yeah, he was huge for them. And they are loaded at LB in SEA too!
Tatupu, Hawthorne and Curry.

dogfish
01-18-2011, 06:00 PM
Yeah, he was huge for them. And they are loaded at LB in SEA too!
Tatupu, Hawthorne and Curry.

yea, well, we've got mario haggan! and jason hunter, and, and. . .

well. . .



**** me. . . .

:tsk:

SOCALORADO.
01-18-2011, 06:01 PM
what, no david hawthorne?


:noidea:
Heres what i would love to see for the front 7 if Fox went 4-3. (Keeping Champ)
FA
OL
Carl Nicks (NO)
RB
DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
4-3
DT Brandon Mebane (FA SEA)
DT Drake Nevis (2nd round #36)
DE Robert Ayers
DE Doom
MLB Paul Posluszny (FA BUF)
SLB James Anderson (FA CAR)
WLB D.J. Williams

dogfish
01-18-2011, 06:30 PM
man, i only wish we'd go crazy in free agency like that! it's what it will take to put an effective 4-3 on the field next year (or possibly an effective 3-4, but that's another topic). . .

mebane would be a huge pickup and should be our absolute first priority, but we're really gonna need a ton of help at linebacker as well. . . IMO DJ's the only' backer we have who has any business starting in a 40 front, but i could probably live with woodyard at WILL and DJ at SAM (sorry DJ!). . . haggan at SAM is a ****ing disaster waiting to happen, and mays is at best a two-down interior thumper with limited range. . .

still, even pretending those guys fit well only gets us to four total, unless someone actually think we're going to put jason hunter or veikune out there as 40 'backers. . . we need two more usable guys just to fill out a two-deep depth chart. . . if we want to finish outside the bottom five this year, we'll need to add a bare minimum of one solid quality starting LB through either the draft or FA-- but preferrably three or four. . .

cuzz4169
01-18-2011, 07:13 PM
Heres what i would love to see for the front 7 if Fox went 4-3. (Keeping Champ)
FA
OL
Carl Nicks (NO)
RB
DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
4-3
DT Brandon Mebane (FA SEA)
DT Drake Nevis (2nd round #36)
DE Robert Ayers
DE Doom
MLB Paul Posluszny (FA BUF)
SLB James Anderson (FA CAR)
WLB D.J. Williams

Ok I hate to crush ya...but I live in Buffalo Posluszny blows...I have friends that are football guys and Die hard Bills fans and they hate Posluszny. Another miss by the Bills took Posluszny over David Harris.