Cutler leads PFW MVP Meter [Archive]

BroncoJoe

09-16-2008, 01:48 PM

Thought I'd post the verbiage for those that may not be able to access the link:

Last week, the story was how Tom Brady’s bum knee had left the MVP race wide open. Maybe the picture isn’t as jumbled as I thought it would be — right now there’s a clear leader for the hardware.

Broncos QB Jay Cutler has taken the torch from Brady and he sprinted ahead of the competition on Sunday. Sure, it has been only two games, but Cutler is on a Brady-like pace. Through two games last season — when Brady threw for a league-record 50 touchdowns — he had six touchdowns, one interception and 576 yards. In Cutler’s first two outings of ’08, he has near-identical numbers — six touchdowns, one interception and 649 yards.

I’m not suggesting we’re going to witness history in back-to-back seasons. I doubt Cutler, in just his third year, can keep up this torrid pace. He has been shockingly good, though, and the likes of Romo, McNabb, Roethlisberger and both Mannings are stuck in his shadow.

Some might question why Philip Rivers, who is tied with Cutler for the league lead in touchdown passes, is so far below him at No. 10. The difference is wins at this point. When it comes to MVP voting, players from losing teams generally don’t fare too well and I’ve tried to reflect that in this space.

1. Broncos QB Jay Cutler — He's the leader, hands down. Cutler has been the league’s best offensive player thus far and his team is 2-0. Of course, if referee Ed Hochuli doesn’t blow his whistle and save Cutler from a lost fumble late in Denver’s Week Two win over division-rival San Diego, Cutler might have been viewed in a completely different light. He was handed a second chance in that situation and made the most of it, finding rookie Eddie Royal for a touchdown and again on the game-winning two-point conversion.

BroncoJoe

09-16-2008, 01:51 PM

RE: Royal, with Clady at #3. Thanks for finding this, Flat!

Rookie receivers aren’t supposed to burst on the professional scene with 100-yard outings and game-winning scores. They aren’t supposed be targeted by their quarterbacks as a primary read or put scares into secondaries and defensive coordinators. Receivers’ growth, much like the quarterbacks who throw them the ball, have learning curves rife with humility as they learn the ropes of the NFL.

It’s a strange phenomenon, really, considering that wide receivers are neither burdened mentally with mastering as many schematic details as the majority of other positional players, nor do they need to be as physically developed as players who knock heads with the opposition on an every-down basis.

Rather, rookie receivers’ struggles are mostly due to trust. In the ultimate team game of football, no position is as dependent on another as receivers are on quarterbacks. And when a quarterback has the choice between throwing the ball to a fellow veteran who has shared in the highs and lows of seasons past, or a hot-shot pass catcher whose professional experience consists mostly of a few slants in training camp, it’s no surprise that they more often go the veteran route.

So it speaks volumes to the esteem that Jay Cutler and Donovan McNabb hold their freshman sensations in that Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson are among the top four rookie performers two weeks into the season. In breaking the mold for their rookie receiver brethren, they’ve also taken a sledgehammer to the notion the two of them are too slightly built to be much more than return specialists who dabble on offense, at least for awhile. Now, it’s incumbent upon defenders to treat them with the same respect that their QBs do.

1. Broncos WR Eddie Royal (second round, 42nd overall)
Week Two stats: Five receptions for 37 yards and one touchdown, one two-point conversion
Season stats: 14 receptions for 183 yards and two touchdowns
Last week’s ranking: 3
In light of Royal’s spectacular Week One showing, Jay Cutler made it clear during the Broncos’ thrilling (and controversial) victory over the Chargers that Brandon Marshall (franchise-record 18 catches) is still his favorite target. But it speaks volumes about Cutler’s trust in Royal that the quarterback targeted the speedster out of Virginia Tech to make the two biggest catches of the afternoon — the four-yard touchdown with 24 seconds to go and the subsequent, game-winning two-point conversion.

. . .

3. Broncos OT Ryan Clady (1-12)
Last week’s ranking: 5
For the second consecutive week, the Broncos needed Clady to wall off the advances of one of the NFL’s most active front sevens, and for the second consecutive week, Clady did just that. No adjustment period has been needed for the Boise State product who’s off to a stronger start than Browns Pro Bowl OLT Joe Thomas was in his rookie campaign a year ago.

Bronco4ever

09-16-2008, 02:13 PM

Cutler has been the league’s best offensive player

That just sounds sweet doesn't it? After watching Jay the last season and a half, you just knew the guy was gonna be something special. It's cool seeing Jay get all this praise. The secret is out!

broncofaninfla

09-16-2008, 02:39 PM

Cool stuff!!!

SarahKay

09-16-2008, 05:07 PM

Too soon to say but I like the sound of it.

Getting a Cutler jersey this weekend! :salute:

MOtorboat

09-16-2008, 05:17 PM

Video game numbers beotches!

frauschieze

09-16-2008, 05:21 PM

Brandon Marshall is at #8 on the MVP list:

8. Broncos WR Brandon Marshall — Marshall came back with a vengeance. After serving a league-issued one-game suspension, he set a Broncos single-game record, bullying the Chargers’ secondary for 18 catches, which tied for the second most in a game in league history. Despite not playing in Week One, he leads the league in receptions. Oh, and he added 166 yards and one touchdown, too.

Retired_Member_001

09-16-2008, 05:26 PM

It's still very on, but I don't see why Cutler couldn't get the MVP award. He will continue to throw touchdown after touchdown, we could be on the road to a very special passing season from Jay Cutler.

Skinny

09-16-2008, 05:30 PM

Good for those guys. It's good to see them getting recognition in a league that has some stellar talent from top to bottom.

GEM

09-16-2008, 05:35 PM

When was the last time that the Broncos had a QB, 2 WR's and a LT in the rankings like that?

Damn it feels good to be a Broncos fan! :rockon:

omac

09-16-2008, 05:49 PM

That just sounds sweet doesn't it? After watching Jay the last season and a half, you just knew the guy was gonna be something special. It's cool seeing Jay get all this praise. The secret is out!

Just last season? We saw this coming within his first few games, when Marshall and Scheffler suddenly became factors, and with the 4th quarter game winning/game tying drives. The way he handled those drives were very un-rookie-like. At that point, there were no doubts. :cheers:

Drill-N-Fill

09-16-2008, 09:01 PM

Sorry - Eddie Royal is also no.1 on their ROY Meter and Clady is no.3.

Anybody remember how many people were angry on Draft day? lol :coffee:

omac

09-16-2008, 11:29 PM

Anybody remember how many people were angry on Draft day? lol :coffee:

I'll own up and say I was initially pissed that we got Royal, but when I calmed down, I could see the thinking behind it, since we were so bad at field position last season. So, from pissed, I moved to "just okay". Then when I heard the camp reports, I became hopeful. Then around the preseason, I knew he was going to be solid, but not this good. :cheers:

Although I was initially leaning towards Williams, I was very happy with the Clady pick from the get-go.

Lonestar

09-17-2008, 12:41 AM

Anybody remember how many people were angry on Draft day? lol :coffee:

we had reason to be, mikey had blown 16 of 17 other WR choices.. we had other needs much greater than KR..

IN fact we still do both Safeties, DT, DE, MLB to name a few....

Now has he (eddie) surprised alot of folks absolutely..

But I still would never draft another WR at any spot, since the odds of getting a good one as it stands now about 2 out of 18..

And to think we did not even draft him as a WR but a KR guy.. Just got a bonus out of the deal and are still looking for that KR guy, for that matter ST in general..

omac

09-17-2008, 01:37 AM

we had reason to be, mikey had blown 16 of 17 other WR choices.. we had other needs much greater than KR..

IN fact we still do both Safeties, DT, DE, MLB to name a few....

Now has he (eddie) surprised alot of folks absolutely..

But I still would never draft another WR at any spot, since the odds of getting a good one as it stands now about 2 out of 18..

And to think we did not even draft him as a WR but a KR guy.. Just got a bonus out of the deal and are still looking for that KR guy, for that matter ST in general..

Well, based on the recent draft of offensive players ... Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, who are all easily outperforming their draft position, I'd say that's good reason to put some trust in Shanny's instincts.

On needs in other positions, I agree with you. There are some things you have to take note of, though.

Last season, in a very Bates' influenced defensive line draft, we invested in 1 DT and 2 DEs. We still needed to know if they could develop into excellent linemen or not. We also added a free agent in Robertson. So investment wise, we still need to find out if these will give the right returns or not. Thomas seems to be working out fine, but Moss and Crowder are coming along too slowly. We needed to give them a chance first, because sometimes, linemen take time to develop. So if we picked up defensive linemen, despite our already heavy investment in the ones we recently acquired .... well, that's like giving up on what we have way too soon.

On safety, before the draft, we still had Lynch. Abdullah has played okay at times. Plus, we invested in McCree and Manuel. So obviously, we were hoping that what we had invested in would pan ouot. McCree is actually doing okay, and the season is still young.

On MLB, we took a chance of Koutivides. Webster played well enough to beat him out of the spot, but I'm still not sold that Webster was the better mike. I'd like to see what Niko can do when he gets more entrenched in the system. Webster's better athletically, but Niko's supposed to be better at quarterbacking the defense. And although you don't put much value in preseason performances (even though you would've seen how powerful this offense was if you did), the Broncos were at their best stopping the rush from the Cowboys when it was Niko at mike. I'm not willing to write him off, yet. But again, we were hoping this would work out, so we didn't invest a high draft pick on one.

Now what did we invest in? A LT who's worth much more than his weight in gold, the cornerstone of one of what was once one of our greatest weaknesses .. pass protection. A returner who turned out to be a high-impact, play making WR, who's also shown he can handle being the #1 if needed ... a weakness last season when injuries hit our WR corps. A RB to go with all our current and FA acquisitions at that position, because we were decimated by injuries here last season. We also took a corner, probably knowing full well that we wouldn't keep Foxy, and maybe even Paymah. A center to develop to hopefully replace Nalen when he retires (picking up Wiegmann was genius). We got excellent value in the FB position, getting one of the best in college at a late round. Hillis not only provides excellent blocking, but rushing and pass catching skills. It's like having a FB with TE abilities; very versatile.

We still took flyers mid to late in the draft in a DT, LB, and Safety, and we'll see if they work out.

So looking at the draft as a whole, we did address needs, just with differing priorities.

So far, though, we're way ahead of any other team in terms of ROI with our latest draft. :cheers:

broncobryce

09-17-2008, 02:21 AM

Omac, that was brilliant. Couldn't have said it better myself.

dogfish

09-17-2008, 04:06 AM

When was the last time that the Broncos had a QB, 2 WR's and a LT in the rankings like that?

Damn it feels good to be a Broncos fan! :rockon:

i think you meant to say. . . damn it feels good to be a gangsta! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1L8l3LrzLA)

;)

sneakers

09-17-2008, 04:43 AM

i think you meant to say. . . damn it feels good to be a gangsta! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1L8l3LrzLA)

;)

I was thinking the same thing!!!!!!!!

Scarface

09-17-2008, 07:24 AM

Anybody remember how many people were angry on Draft day? lol :coffee:

Ahhh Internet Message Boards. Where someone is always angry and smarter than someone else. LOL!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/graphics/2008/03/01/cat.jpg

omac

09-17-2008, 07:32 AM

Omac, that was brilliant. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Thanks, man! :cheers:

CrazyHorse

09-17-2008, 08:18 AM

Wouldn't it be cool if Cutler, in only his third year, broke Brady's TD record and Marino's passing yards record.
He's on pace for 5200 Yds and 48 TD's! That is against decent defenses too!

GEM

09-17-2008, 09:25 AM

GEM

09-17-2008, 09:28 AM

i think you meant to say. . . damn it feels good to be a gangsta! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1L8l3LrzLA)

;)

:D You caught it!

Lonestar

09-17-2008, 10:50 AM

Well, based on the recent draft of offensive players ... Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, who are all easily outperforming their draft position, I'd say that's good reason to put some trust in Shanny's instincts.

On needs in other positions, I agree with you. There are some things you have to take note of, though.

Last season, in a very Bates' influenced defensive line draft, we invested in 1 DT and 2 DEs. We still needed to know if they could develop into excellent linemen or not. We also added a free agent in Robertson. So investment wise, we still need to find out if these will give the right returns or not. Thomas seems to be working out fine, but Moss and Crowder are coming along too slowly. We needed to give them a chance first, because sometimes, linemen take time to develop. So if we picked up defensive linemen, despite our already heavy investment in the ones we recently acquired .... well, that's like giving up on what we have way too soon.

On safety, before the draft, we still had Lynch. Abdullah has played okay at times. Plus, we invested in McCree and Manuel. So obviously, we were hoping that what we had invested in would pan ouot. McCree is actually doing okay, and the season is still young.

On MLB, we took a chance of Koutivides. Webster played well enough to beat him out of the spot, but I'm still not sold that Webster was the better mike. I'd like to see what Niko can do when he gets more entrenched in the system. Webster's better athletically, but Niko's supposed to be better at quarterbacking the defense. And although you don't put much value in preseason performances (even though you would've seen how powerful this offense was if you did), the Broncos were at their best stopping the rush from the Cowboys when it was Niko at mike. I'm not willing to write him off, yet. But again, we were hoping this would work out, so we didn't invest a high draft pick on one.

Now what did we invest in? A LT who's worth much more than his weight in gold, the cornerstone of one of what was once one of our greatest weaknesses .. pass protection. A returner who turned out to be a high-impact, play making WR, who's also shown he can handle being the #1 if needed ... a weakness last season when injuries hit our WR corps. A RB to go with all our current and FA acquisitions at that position, because we were decimated by injuries here last season. We also took a corner, probably knowing full well that we wouldn't keep Foxy, and maybe even Paymah. A center to develop to hopefully replace Nalen when he retires (picking up Wiegmann was genius). We got excellent value in the FB position, getting one of the best in college at a late round. Hillis not only provides excellent blocking, but rushing and pass catching skills. It's like having a FB with TE abilities; very versatile.

We still took flyers mid to late in the draft in a DT, LB, and Safety, and we'll see if they work out.

So looking at the draft as a whole, we did address needs, just with differing priorities.

So far, though, we're way ahead of any other team in terms of ROI with our latest draft. :cheers:

you have made most of my case with your comments..

We have potential on D but right now we still suck..
We have seemed to have shored up the Offense..

The last time we did something serious on D was in 2007 and frankly right now it does not look like it is going to pan out at least not for Moss.. Crowder I thought would be a good to great DE has the size and motor but with them playing him ad DT last year caused an issue in his development?..

Thomas could be a beast lets see but that still means we have a 1.75 DT's when we need a solid 3 for rotational purposes or at least two real solid to great DT and a couple of warmer bodies to plug in there for RUN stuffing and pocket collapsing. Something we do not have unless Powell comes back strong next year.. Then we also have to worry about Robertson long term..

OUR DE's suck as we speak.. The blitzing is not working as a testing to the QB's not being touched in TWO games.. I'll take that back rivers was flushed out after a 5 or 6 second drop back late in the game on Sunday.. But other than that QB's have been able to take apart our DB's .

Niko could be a long term solution but right now it is not looking good.. Safeties enough said nether are Bronco quality time to find replacements our standards are Lynch, Smith, Atwater and a few others from a time before many on here were an itch in their daddies pants..

But then maybe it is all the system they are running not building it to the sad group of personnel they have on board..

dogfish

09-17-2008, 11:06 AM

you have made most of my case with your comments..

We have potential on D but right now we still suck..
We have seemed to have shored up the Offense..

The last time we did something serious on D was in 2007 and frankly right now it does not look like it is going to pan out at least not for Moss.. Crowder I thought would be a good to great DE has the size and motor but with them playing him ad DT last year caused an issue in his development?..

Thomas could be a beast lets see but that still means we have a 1.75 DT's when we need a solid 3 for rotational purposes or at least two real solid to great DT and a couple of warmer bodies to plug in there for RUN stuffing and pocket collapsing. Something we do not have unless Powell comes back strong next year.. Then we also have to worry about Robertson long term..

OUR DE's suck as we speak.. The blitzing is not working as a testing to the QB's not being touched in TWO games.. I'll take that back rivers was flushed out after a 5 or 6 second drop back late in the game on Sunday.. But other than that QB's have been able to take apart our DB's .

Niko could be a long term solution but right now it is not looking good.. Safeties enough said nether are Bronco quality time to find replacements our standards are Lynch, Smith, Atwater and a few others from a time before many on here were an itch in their daddies pants..

But then maybe it is all the system they are running not building it to the sad group of personnel they have on board..

we're pretty much set on O for the next few years, other than maybe another RB, or some depth on the interior OL-- we'll see what torrain can give us. . . i think it's pretty clear that next year will be all about the D, and we've done a nice job of stockpiling extra draft picks that will hopefully let us grab a middle linebacker and a safety, and maybe use the saturation technique on the D-line again if guys like moss and crowder don't turn it on this year. . . we all knew that we had more problems than we could fix in just one offseason, but a successful draft that seems to have the O running on all cylinders makes fixing the other side of the ball a lot easier now that we can just concentrate there. . . you know i don't go overboard with our own hype, but i haven't felt this optimistic since. . . well, hell. . . since elway left! we've finally got that franchise QB to build around again, and all of a sudden, instead of being built around declining and over-priced free agents, we're built around a very talented young offense that's made up mostly of our own draft picks. . . plus, pulling back our reigns in FA and moving pro-actively to extend DJ is a good sign that they're trying to be smarter about managing the cap and getting good value on our money for a change. . . i finally feel like this team actually has a chance to be a legit contender in the next year or so, or even this year in a suddenly wide-open AFC if slowik can pull his head out of his ass. . . . good times!

jhns

09-17-2008, 11:20 AM

And to think we did not even draft him as a WR but a KR guy.. Just got a bonus out of the deal and are still looking for that KR guy, for that matter ST in general..

Shanny has said, and before the preseason even started, that Royal was the best receiver in the draft. Not just return man. He was saying that well before Royal even made a play as a WR. I think you need to stop trying to discredit our team for every correct thing they do. :coffee:

Also, we did excellent in the draft. Those who get angry are the ones who think they know what they are tlaking about. Obviously Shanny has done something right as we have the #1 offense in the league right now. All of the fans who think they know what the team needs have just been laughed at. Whatever it is that we needed to make us good this year, we got.

Lonestar

09-17-2008, 12:06 PM

we're pretty much set on O for the next few years, other than maybe another RB, or some depth on the interior OL-- we'll see what torrain can give us. . . i think it's pretty clear that next year will be all about the D, and we've done a nice job of stockpiling extra draft picks that will hopefully let us grab a middle linebacker and a safety, and maybe use the saturation technique on the D-line again if guys like moss and crowder don't turn it on this year. . . we all knew that we had more problems than we could fix in just one offseason, but a successful draft that seems to have the O running on all cylinders makes fixing the other side of the ball a lot easier now that we can just concentrate there. . . you know i don't go overboard with our own hype, but i haven't felt this optimistic since. . . well, hell. . . since elway left! we've finally got that franchise QB to build around again, and all of a sudden, instead of being built around declining and over-priced free agents, we're built around a very talented young offense that's made up mostly of our own draft picks. . . plus, pulling back our reigns in FA and moving pro-actively to extend DJ is a good sign that they're trying to be smarter about managing the cap and getting good value on our money for a change. . . i finally feel like this team actually has a chance to be a legit contender in the next year or so, or even this year in a suddenly wide-open AFC if slowik can pull his head out of his ass. . . . good times!

Overall I agree with your comments we all knew we had way to many holes to plug in one draft..

it is going to be harder and harder to upgrade some positions on O for the next couple of years.. except at perhaps RB.. the rest should be set for a few years IF we resign the RFAs as they come on line..

ON D it is a whole different story.. Mikey has never paid much attention to D on draft day ONE, outside of a few LB it has NEVER been his priority.. that has NOW come back to bite us on the ass big time.. We have got a few situational players but outside of Thomas, DJ and Champ (who is not a spring chicken) we are IMO hurting for quality talent..

Lonestar

09-17-2008, 12:37 PM

Shanny has said, and before the preseason even started, that Royal was the best receiver in the draft. Not just return man. He was saying that well before Royal even made a play as a WR. I think you need to stop trying to discredit our team for every correct thing they do. :coffee:

Also, we did excellent in the draft. Those who get angry are the ones who think they know what they are tlaking about. Obviously Shanny has done something right as we have the #1 offense in the league right now. All of the fans who think they know what the team needs have just been laughed at. Whatever it is that we needed to make us good this year, we got.

But your not getting it .. When they drafted him they were looking at KR same went for Darrent.. they announced to the world that KR was a priority and in both cases they got real lucky they could play their true position better than the stiffs we had in place..

I'll give credit to mikey when he takes credit for what he really does not what he lucks into.. TD, Marshall, Royale, Darrent

Now he has done good for Jay, Clady, Scheffler, DJ, Al Wilson and for bringing in UDFA for Running backs but I think that is more Turners proficiency than Mikeys great evaluation skills..

We do not want to even get into all of the rest of mikeys DAFTS do we?

Let agree to disagree on mikeys GM skill set.. However he is a first rate O guy..

BTW where are we ranked in D?
#27 total yards..
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

#26 TOP
# 3 in Yard per play this is not a good number.. only the rams and loins were worse
# 7 points per game
#29 in passing yards
#1 in passes more than 20 yards.
#2 in passes of more than 40yards only loins worse.. Tied with MIA ahahaha
#5 on QB rating allowed loin, rams, texans and dophins being worse.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=D75FF4422DBFD7527A86D97B4 E5B81D4?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

jhns

09-17-2008, 12:51 PM

But your not getting it .. When they drafted him they were looking at KR same went for Darrent.. they announced to the world that KR was a priority and in both cases they got real lucky they could play their true position better than the stiffs we had in place..

I'll give credit to mikey when he takes credit for what he really does not what he lucks into.. TD, Marshall, Royale, Darrent

Now he has done good for Jay, Clady, Scheffler, DJ, Al Wilson and for bringing in UDFA for Running backs but I think that is more Turners proficiency than Mikeys great evaluation skills..

We do not want to even get into all of the rest of mikeys DAFTS do we?

Let agree to disagree on mikeys GM skill set.. However he is a first rate O guy..

BTW where are we ranked in D?
#27 total yards..
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

#26 TOP
# 3 in Yard per play this is not a good number.. only the rams and loins were worse
# 7 points per game
#29 in passing yards
#1 in passes more than 20 yards.
#2 in passes of more than 40yards only loins worse.. Tied with MIA ahahaha
#5 on QB rating allowed loin, rams, texans and dophins being worse.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=D75FF4422DBFD7527A86D97B4 E5B81D4?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

You are honestly going to say he was lucky for those guys???? LOL......

Obviously they had no clue. That is why they brought them in!

I will tell you the one stat that counts. 2-0. Of course, now I will just hear excuses as to why we are really 0-2 and Mike is just lucky. I will say that he must have done something right. We have a very top notch offense.

Mike has said he brought Royal in because he was the best receiver in the draft. Why would he be only a returner if he is the best receiver? You must think that our team hated the receivers in this draft if they thought the best receiver was only going to be a return man. How is that at all logical? Also, they have said that from day one, not after he took the #2 spot. You have no ground to stand on when you say that.....

While complaining about his GM skills though, you may want to look at our offense. We only have a couple of guys that where not started in the league on this team. We have what, two players that where not brought into the league on our team? The center(who is filling in for an injured guy we got) and the starting TE. Those are the only two. Funny that so many starters where brought into the league by Shanny but he doesn't know what he is doing.... :coffee:

As for the defense. I don't think it is nearly as bad as everyone wants to make it. They are bad, but not as bad as they looked against the good offense of the Dolts. There are only a few teams in this league that can put up 35 going against the worst defense in the NFL. I don't think we have to worry about scoring 40 for every win. Anyways, this team has been rebuilding for the past 3 years. It isn't complete yet. They obviously have just fixed the scouting department recently. THe past few years have shown that. I am willing to give it a few more years and not discredit what they are doing.

Now for the one thing I am most curious about. How was Marshall a lucky pick? Was he supposed to be a return man also? How about TD? Obviously our coaches didn't see any skill in these players, thats why we used draft picks on them and gave them paychecks......

jhns

09-17-2008, 12:53 PM

I like how everyone feared the Chargers going into this season but now reading posts make it seem as though they are a horrible team that we should have lost to. You guys are acting like their offense is one of the worst in the league at this point. It is highly unlikely that anyone else on our schedule comes close to matching their firepower on offense.

Lonestar

09-17-2008, 01:28 PM

You are honestly going to say he was lucky for those guys???? LOL......

Obviously they had no clue. That is why they brought them in!

I will tell you the one stat that counts. 2-0. Of course, now I will just hear excuses as to why we are really 0-2 and Mike is just lucky. I will say that he must have done something right. We have a very top notch offense.

Mike has said he brought Royal in because he was the best receiver in the draft. Why would he be only a returner if he is the best receiver? You must think that our team hated the receivers in this draft if they thought the best receiver was only going to be a return man. How is that at all logical? Also, they have said that from day one, not after he took the #2 spot. You have no ground to stand on when you say that.....

While complaining about his GM skills though, you may want to look at our offense. We only have a couple of guys that where not started in the league on this team. We have what, two players that where not brought into the league on our team? The center(who is filling in for an injured guy we got) and the starting TE. Those are the only two. Funny that so many starters where brought into the league by Shanny but he doesn't know what he is doing.... :coffee:

As for the defense. I don't think it is nearly as bad as everyone wants to make it. They are bad, but not as bad as they looked against the good offense of the Dolts. There are only a few teams in this league that can put up 35 going against the worst defense in the NFL. I don't think we have to worry about scoring 40 for every win. Anyways, this team has been rebuilding for the past 3 years. It isn't complete yet. They obviously have just fixed the scouting department recently. THe past few years have shown that. I am willing to give it a few more years and not discredit what they are doing.

Now for the one thing I am most curious about. How was Marshall a lucky pick? Was he supposed to be a return man also? How about TD? Obviously our coaches didn't see any skill in these players, thats why we used draft picks on them and gave them paychecks......

let me try this again and read it slowly cause it is the last time I say it..

He did not draft either Royale or Darrent as WR or CB.. they were brought in to KR and wound up as better players than the stiffs we had in place..

go to
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609&year=2008&month=4

Shanahan: Day 1 Recap
Head Coach Mike Shanahan talks about the Broncos second-round pick Eddie Royal and recaps day 1 of the draft.

listen to the first things out off his mouth when he talks about Eddie Royale will help us immediately as a Punt returner and kick returner and then he talks about him being an inside slot Receiver and then and only then talks about him being able to play outside because of his speed and moves..

First question is about him being a punt/kickoff return guy..
when he talks about him being a WR he is talking bout him taking a years growth before he would be a WR.. he has the ability to help us on special teams and does not have to help us as a WR right away..

same thing applied to Darrent..
One-on-One With Darrent Williams
Cornerback Darrent Williams is looking forward to the chance to be the Broncos' full-time returner, as he noted in this one-on-one interview.

although is is no longer on the system.. Mike also stated on draft day they had drafted him for kick return duties and they really like Paymah and Foxworth for CB duties..
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609&year=2005&month=4

so yes they got lucky in finding someone that could step in a start day one.. it was not the intention nor expectation on draft day.. Or at least that is what he said in his interviews..

defense still sucks.. has been for 2.5 years now.. maybe even longer..

jhns

09-17-2008, 03:05 PM

I still don't get what you are saying...

Shanny is known for not starting rookies right away or thinking that they will have an impact right away. Clady is one of the very few that I have seen him declare a starter before they where in training camp. EVERY other rookie to ever come through here has had to earn the starting job. So because he gave Royal the starting return duties on draft day and didn't lay out expectations of him starting at receiver on day one, he is lucky? I would say they scouted better than anyone here or in any other scouting firm/ media outlet that releases stuff.

They obviously had something with Royal. They liked him enough to take him in the second. They call him the best RECEIVER in the draft and say that he can come in right away and make an impact on special teams (as is the case with most receivers, they don't usually step in their first season). So because they didn't know that he didn't need an adjustment period at receiver, they are lucky to get him? I would say they did their homework and have yet again proven that they have turned our scouting department into one of the NFL's best. They are no more lucky than any other team that has success in the draft.

dogfish

09-17-2008, 06:07 PM

It is highly unlikely that anyone else on our schedule comes close to matching their firepower on offense.

at least until sunday, when we play new orleans. . . . although admittedly, not having colston does limit them some. . .

Hoshdude7

09-17-2008, 06:17 PM

I expect a 24-13 Win over New Orleans

dogfish

09-17-2008, 06:27 PM

But your not getting it .. When they drafted him they were looking at KR same went for Darrent.. they announced to the world that KR was a priority and in both cases they got real lucky they could play their true position better than the stiffs we had in place..

I'll give credit to mikey when he takes credit for what he really does not what he lucks into.. TD, Marshall, Royale, Darrent

Now he has done good for Jay, Clady, Scheffler, DJ, Al Wilson and for bringing in UDFA for Running backs but I think that is more Turners proficiency than Mikeys great evaluation skills..

We do not want to even get into all of the rest of mikeys DAFTS do we?

Let agree to disagree on mikeys GM skill set.. However he is a first rate O guy..

BTW where are we ranked in D?
#27 total yards..
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

#26 TOP
# 3 in Yard per play this is not a good number.. only the rams and loins were worse
# 7 points per game
#29 in passing yards
#1 in passes more than 20 yards.
#2 in passes of more than 40yards only loins worse.. Tied with MIA ahahaha
#5 on QB rating allowed loin, rams, texans and dophins being worse.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=D75FF4422DBFD7527A86D97B4 E5B81D4?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1

c'mon JR, be fair. . . if all the good picks were "luck," then all the bad picks must have been "bad luck" and not bad management. . . and all the good picks by teams like indy and new england must have just been lucky. . .

unlike most people on this board, i won't complain that you bust shanahan's chops about our bad drafts-- we may have been the worst team in the league in terms of drafting for the better part of the last decade, he deserves the criticism! i agree with you. . . but if we're going to criticise the guy when he blows it, don't you think it's only fair to acknowledge when he gets it right? or have you reached the point that you're so pissed off about those bad drafts that you've now got some sort of personal agenda against the man? nobody hated those wasted picks and the resulting down years in the franchise more than i did, and i was reaching the point where i was starting to want him gone if things didn't improve, but fair's fair-- we have absolutely hit it out of the park two out of the last three drafts, and we were at least trying to do the right thing in '07 when we stocked up on highly-rated D-line prospects. . . and even if moss and crowder both bust, the draft's hardly a total loss-- we got two quality starters out of it, both guys that were considered first round talents at one point in the evaluation process. . . i used to HATE it when we'd pick some useless stiff like jeremy leseur with a first day pick, but we haven't made one single bad pick like that in the past three years. . .

i don't see how marshall was a lucky pick, or ryan harris or, chris kuper or tony scheffler or peyton hillis for that matter. . . there was a ton of interest in marhsall before the draft-- everyone knew he had top physical skills, and some draftniks were projecting him as high as the second round. . . we were just the team that was smart enough to take the latent monster off the board-- the only luck was that he was still available at that spot. . .

i'm still not ready to re-evaluate the guy as some sort of draft guru-- i need to see a few more successful drafts, he owes us for all the terrible ones-- but i can't see how you can dispute the fact that we seem to be getting a lot better at it lately. . . i agree that he and the front office need to prove that they can find defensive talent as well as offensive, but hey, at least we're competitive again. . . mike's always been good at drafting linebackers (and woodyard looks like another keeper)-- i'm pretty confident that we'll add at least one good one next year. . . the D-line is the one spot where we've just totally fallen on our faces, and even there we've at least had SOME success recently (doom and marcus thomas)-- IF we can find a way to get that figured out, we could be in pretty good shape going forward. . . .

Lonestar

09-18-2008, 12:39 AM

c'mon JR, be fair. . . if all the good picks were "luck," then all the bad picks must have been "bad luck" and not bad management. . . and all the good picks by teams like indy and new england must have just been lucky. . .

unlike most people on this board, i won't complain that you bust shanahan's chops about our bad drafts-- we may have been the worst team in the league in terms of drafting for the better part of the last decade, he deserves the criticism! i agree with you. . . but if we're going to criticise the guy when he blows it, don't you think it's only fair to acknowledge when he gets it right? or have you reached the point that you're so pissed off about those bad drafts that you've now got some sort of personal agenda against the man? nobody hated those wasted picks and the resulting down years in the franchise more than i did, and i was reaching the point where i was starting to want him gone if things didn't improve, but fair's fair-- we have absolutely hit it out of the park two out of the last three drafts, and we were at least trying to do the right thing in '07 when we stocked up on highly-rated D-line prospects. . . and even if moss and crowder both bust, the draft's hardly a total loss-- we got two quality starters out of it, both guys that were considered first round talents at one point in the evaluation process. . . i used to HATE it when we'd pick some useless stiff like jeremy leseur with a first day pick, but we haven't made one single bad pick like that in the past three years. . .

i don't see how marshall was a lucky pick, or ryan harris or, chris kuper or tony scheffler or peyton hillis for that matter. . . there was a ton of interest in marhsall before the draft-- everyone knew he had top physical skills, and some draftniks were projecting him as high as the second round. . . we were just the team that was smart enough to take the latent monster off the board-- the only luck was that he was still available at that spot. . .

i'm still not ready to re-evaluate the guy as some sort of draft guru-- i need to see a few more successful drafts, he owes us for all the terrible ones-- but i can't see how you can dispute the fact that we seem to be getting a lot better at it lately. . . i agree that he and the front office need to prove that they can find defensive talent as well as offensive, but hey, at least we're competitive again. . . mike's always been good at drafting linebackers (and woodyard looks like another keeper)-- i'm pretty confident that we'll add at least one good one next year. . . the D-line is the one spot where we've just totally fallen on our faces, and even there we've at least had SOME success recently (doom and marcus thomas)-- IF we can find a way to get that figured out, we could be in pretty good shape going forward. . . .

Hey I was saying simply that the initial reason we took both Royale and Darrent was for their KR skills.. He was braying that royale was picked for the WR slot.. and that mikey was touting him as the best WR in the draft..

Now he just might have been but that was not the talking points on draft day.. IMHO that is luck that the KR you just drafted becomes a starter..

Now that is not to say that they did not grade out as good players or they did not have the potential to be..

When mikey publicly goes on record and says that our kick/punt return issues are now solved.. Did not tout him as any thing but a slot receiver and that we would not count on him for at least a year.. everything else it a total bonus UNEXPECTED BONUS..

I'm glad that mikey finally pulled his head out of his ass and stopped DAFTING and Pat laid the law down about building the team via the draft instead of waste 15-25% of the cap space to DEAD MONEY each year..

We have been lucky to get some top notch players late in the draft.. Many of those HC that were touting Marshall in the second are now kicking themselves in the ass for not getting him then or in the third or fourth before we got him..