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View Full Version : OC- thread. post here.



underrated29
01-13-2011, 04:48 PM
Post the rumors, the people, about foxs OC in here. The fox head coach thread is too long and I dont want to keep reading through tons of pages to find anything about the OCs.



OC- info here:

slim
01-13-2011, 04:49 PM
Mike McCoy

/thread

DenBronx
01-13-2011, 04:50 PM
They said Fox might go after Danny Smith.

underrated29
01-13-2011, 04:50 PM
Mike McCoy

/thread



Blasphemy!!!

slim
01-13-2011, 04:51 PM
Blasphemy!!!

Sorry, but it's gonna happen.

shank
01-13-2011, 04:51 PM
i just mailed 5 dollars to john elway for the 'hire dennison as AHC/OC' fund. and another 5 to slim for the 'shut up slim' fund.

underrated29
01-13-2011, 04:51 PM
They said Fox might go after Denny Smith from the Rams.


Dont know much about him. Is he any good? The rams offense has sucked for a while, but they also had no Qb and NO OL to block.


Any others mentioned yet?

slim
01-13-2011, 04:52 PM
They said Fox might go after Denny Smith from the Rams.

I think they were talking about Danny Smith (the ST coach from Washington).

He is likely to bring him in to be the ST coach.

slim
01-13-2011, 04:55 PM
La Canfora reports, via a league source, that Washington Redskins special teams coach Danny Smith is a candidate to be the Broncos' special team coach.

Fox asked the Redskins for permission to interview Smith last year, when Fox was seeking a new special teams coordinator in Carolina at the time. The Redskins blocked the request, according to sources, but Smith declined to sign an extension with Washington and will be in essence a coaching free agent.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81da89ea/article/elway-announces-expanther-fox-will-be-broncos-new-coach?module=breaking_news

BigDaddyBronco
01-13-2011, 04:56 PM
I think they were talking about Danny Smith (the ST coach from Washington).

He is likely to bring him in to be the ST coach.

Heck, I thought it was Dennis Smith, the ex-Broncos badass.

slim
01-13-2011, 04:57 PM
Heck, I thought it was Dennis Smith, the ex-Broncos badass.

Dennis Smith is a jackhole, but he would be a better OC than Mike McCoy :shocked:

I Eat Staples
01-13-2011, 04:57 PM
Anyone but McCoy. Anyone.

red98
01-13-2011, 04:57 PM
The Broncos are expected to retain offensive coordinator Mike McCoy under Fox. McCoy previously worked with Fox for seven seasons in Carolina.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17087361

Mike
01-13-2011, 04:57 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81da89ea/article/elway-announces-expanther-fox-will-be-broncos-new-coach?module=breaking_news

That's good news in itself. Did we let Pfiefer go?

shank
01-13-2011, 04:58 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17087361

eff dat noise.

slim
01-13-2011, 04:58 PM
That's good news in itself. Did we let Pfiefer go?

I imagine most everyone will be fired (expect McCoy).

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 05:00 PM
I imagine most everyone will be fired (expect McCoy).

I kind of hope we keep Studs. I like him. Personally, of course.

BigDaddyBronco
01-13-2011, 05:01 PM
Well, at least we have something to bitch about all summer with McCoy.

slim
01-13-2011, 05:01 PM
I kind of hope we keep Studs. I like him. Personally, of course.

He seems like a nice guy.

But the running game was so bad last year...not sure it was his fault, but it was bad.

Mike
01-13-2011, 05:02 PM
Well, at least we have something to bitch about all summer with McCoy.

Never fear, the draft is still to come.....

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 05:03 PM
He seems like a nice guy.

But the running game was so bad last year...not sure it was his fault, but it was bad.

EVERYTHING is McDaniels fault.

Get with the program, fatass.

slim
01-13-2011, 05:04 PM
EVERYTHING is McDaniels fault.

Get with the program, fatass.

I had washed McD from my memory.

Now the headaches are coming back...thanks.

BroncoStud
01-13-2011, 05:15 PM
Mike McCoy = OC


Is there anymore to it than that?

G_Money
01-13-2011, 05:16 PM
I'll be pretty pissed off if McCoy comes back as OC. McDaniels ran the offense until he was fired, so his ONLY coordinating experience was after Josh was fired.

It wasn't exactly the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

Let's go with someone else, please. If we want to keep him as QB coach, fine - he's got experience there.

~G

underrated29
01-13-2011, 05:21 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17087361



Please make the pain go away. I can not handle it anymore.

BroncoStud
01-13-2011, 05:31 PM
"The Broncos are expected to retain offensive coordinator Mike McCoy under Fox. McCoy previously worked with Fox for seven seasons in Carolina."



Same article - oh boy...

hotcarl
01-13-2011, 05:32 PM
this shit sucks

ydave77
01-13-2011, 05:34 PM
I am ok with the John Fox hire, in a year of weak coaching candidates. The only thing that scared me was keeping McCoy.

Honestly, by no means am I a Tebow-ite, but he is the most "exciting" part of the team to me right now. His development is what makes me want to watch a 30 pt blowout. What can I say, I'm a bronco fan, I'm a Elway fan, that makes me a QB fan. IMO there isnt much thats more exciting than watching a potential franchise Q B grow.

I want Tebow to be great, whether he can get there, or even to good, is still a question mark. More than anything though, he needs a coach who can really help him reach his ceiling.
Mike McCoy is not that guy.

camdisco24
01-13-2011, 05:38 PM
Mike McCoy's offense wasn't awful the last 2 weeks....
If he's gonna be with this team next season, he needs to watch a lot of tape this offseason because there we're times I wanted to punch the TV watching the McD/McCoy offense.

T.K.O.
01-13-2011, 05:55 PM
John Fox has long history with Broncos coordinator Mike McCoy
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 13, 2011, 5:08 PM EST
I’m cautiously optimistic that John Fox was a smart hire for the Denver Broncos considering the circumstances. The move will make even more sense if Fox winds up retaining Mike McCoy as the team’s offensive coordinator.

read the rest @http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/13/john-fox-has-long-history-with-broncos-coordinator-mike-mccoy/

:salute:

titan
01-13-2011, 05:59 PM
ESPN's Adam Schefter, in an interview on KOA radio this afternoon, when asked who the offensive coordinator would be:

Mike McCoy is there and he's in demand. He's wanted in cleveland and kc.
McCoy is in the driver's seat. McCoy also worked under John Fox in the past.
That's the guy Denver would like.

frauschieze
01-13-2011, 05:59 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17087361

:puke:

Seriously?!

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 06:00 PM
I'll be pretty pissed off if McCoy comes back as OC. McDaniels ran the offense until he was fired, so his ONLY coordinating experience was after Josh was fired.

It wasn't exactly the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

Let's go with someone else, please. If we want to keep him as QB coach, fine - he's got experience there.

~G

~G, you know I love you man, but really. What could McCoy do? Three games left and all they have is what they've been running all year?

You can't just change a whole philosophy over night.

BroncoStud
01-13-2011, 06:04 PM
~G, you know I love you man, but really. What could McCoy do? Three games left and all they have is what they've been running all year?

You can't just change a whole philosophy over night.

I don't know how you defend all the QB draws... There really is no way to. The playcalling in the Oakland game and the 1st half of the Houston game was some of the worst if not THE worst I've seen in my lifetime of watching NFL football. It got better after that.

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 06:07 PM
I don't know how you defend all the QB draws... There really is no way to. The playcalling in the Oakland game and the 1st half of the Houston game was some of the worst if not THE worst I've seen in my lifetime of watching NFL football. It got better after that.

WTF were they left with? Nada, Zero.

So, if you're a great pilot, and have to take over a plane that is about to crash, should we blame you, or the previous pilot?

Gimme a break.

Lancane
01-13-2011, 06:11 PM
WTF were they left with? Nada, Zero.

So, if you're a great pilot, and have to take over a plane that is about to crash, should we blame you, or the previous pilot?

Gimme a break.

Better learn to F'n fly the plane damn quickly, cause our asses are in the plane too!

G_Money
01-13-2011, 06:13 PM
It's not the philosophy, Joe, it's how the playcalling was put together. I understand that the plays in the playbook had to be run - no making stuff up by drawing with sticks on the turf or something.

But McCoy's use of that playbook was less surgical than slam-keys-like-a-3-year-old-and-hope-a-play-works.

There was some uuuugly stuff in those games. I'm sure Tebow being in his first starts was a cause for concern and for dialing the playbook back to what they thought he could handle, but that excuse only goes so far with me.

McCoy does not thrill me. We're asking him to do a job he has only ever done for a month with uncomfortable results. I want a guy who has done it longer, and better.

I think we deserve better. Settling for the staff Fox put together in Carolina (which would include McCoy, since that's where he was plucked from by Josh) doesn't scream success to me.

If it didn't work for Fox down there, where McCoy couldn't get promoted beyond either of the middling OCs ahead of him and had to jump ship to being Josh's water boy here without even calling plays...

Why would I expect that to work here? I don't want an OC in his first go-round. Making Tebow a pro QB is the job of an expert, not some kid out for his first ride around the block in dad's car.

~G

Ravage!!!
01-13-2011, 06:16 PM
I'm telling you, Tebow limits more than you guys want to admit or want to see.

BroncoStud
01-13-2011, 06:18 PM
WTF were they left with? Nada, Zero.

So, if you're a great pilot, and have to take over a plane that is about to crash, should we blame you, or the previous pilot?

Gimme a break.

WTF are you talking about?

The ONLY play we were left with was QB Draw? Is that really what you're trying to say? The playcall was horrible half the time and got better the other half.

Make excuses all you want, it won't help the Broncos, it won't make McCoy's playcalling any better. There is a difference in being an optimist and simply being delusional.

Lancane
01-13-2011, 06:23 PM
I'm telling you, Tebow limits more than you guys want to admit or want to see.

Rav, I know you want a prolific pro-style ready quarterback, but at least try and coach the kid to be that before we scrap his ass. If he sucks, do you think I wouldn't be the first in line saying to draft Luck or someone else? I F'n hated Plummer's ass, but...we can not expect to see shit if we have a two-bit coach as the offensive coordinator.

If Fox wants to impress me, then finding a solid offensive coordinator and quarterback coach is the best way. I'd have been fine with Martindale remaining the DC, because for all intent purposes, Fox is the DC and Martindale would be his student...instead we'll have McCoy running the mass majority of the entire offense! Notice the teams that want to interview him for the OC position have offensive head coaches? Wonder why the F' that is?

:lol:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-13-2011, 06:27 PM
Love it or hate it, the combination of McCoy's playcalling and Tebow at QB scored over 20 points in each of the last 3 games... the first 3 game stretch of over 20 points all season. Had our defense been able to stop anyone, we could've easily won all 3 of those games. 28 points against the #1 defense in the league and you guys are pissing and moaning about it?

Oh BTW, we OUTSCORED and BEAT Dennison's offense in week 16 with a rookie QB and the WORST defense in the league.

What I think is telling is that when Dennison/Kubiak got a lead on us, they shut it down and allowed us to come back and win it. Talk about the shit I NEVER want to see in Denver again...

elsid13
01-13-2011, 06:30 PM
Good news the system will mostly remain the same. Bad news I hate this system.

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 06:30 PM
WTF are you talking about?

The ONLY play we were left with was QB Draw? Is that really what you're trying to say? The playcall was horrible half the time and got better the other half.

Make excuses all you want, it won't help the Broncos, it won't make McCoy's playcalling any better. There is a difference in being an optimist and simply being delusional.

Sorry, did you watch the games? The QB draw was a SMALL % of what was actually called.

My position is, they geared this offense around a guy who isn't Tebow. It's not an excuse, it's reality.

If you'd rather be delusional, that's your choice.

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 06:33 PM
It's not the philosophy, Joe, it's how the playcalling was put together. I understand that the plays in the playbook had to be run - no making stuff up by drawing with sticks on the turf or something.

But McCoy's use of that playbook was less surgical than slam-keys-like-a-3-year-old-and-hope-a-play-works.

There was some uuuugly stuff in those games. I'm sure Tebow being in his first starts was a cause for concern and for dialing the playbook back to what they thought he could handle, but that excuse only goes so far with me.

McCoy does not thrill me. We're asking him to do a job he has only ever done for a month with uncomfortable results. I want a guy who has done it longer, and better.

I think we deserve better. Settling for the staff Fox put together in Carolina (which would include McCoy, since that's where he was plucked from by Josh) doesn't scream success to me.

If it didn't work for Fox down there, where McCoy couldn't get promoted beyond either of the middling OCs ahead of him and had to jump ship to being Josh's water boy here without even calling plays...

Why would I expect that to work here? I don't want an OC in his first go-round. Making Tebow a pro QB is the job of an expert, not some kid out for his first ride around the block in dad's car.

~G

My only point is they had a philosophy in place for 13 of the 16 weeks of a season. More if you include training camp. They simply couldn't change all that in three weeks.

BroncoStud
01-13-2011, 06:36 PM
Sorry, did you watch the games? The QB draw was a SMALL % of what was actually called.

My position is, they geared this offense around a guy who isn't Tebow. It's not an excuse, it's reality.

If you'd rather be delusional, that's your choice.

So because Tebow is not Orton, the playcall needed to suck? Is that what I'm getting out of this? Like I said, McCoy got better, but for half of the time he was horrible, to the point of being maddeningly bad. I hope this offseason he can figure some things out.

G_Money
01-13-2011, 06:42 PM
Love it or hate it, the combination of McCoy's playcalling and Tebow at QB scored over 20 points in each of the last 3 games... the first 3 game stretch of over 20 points all season. Had our defense been able to stop anyone, we could've easily won all 3 of those games. 28 points against the #1 defense in the league and you guys are pissing and moaning about it?...

McCoy was the QB coach in Carolina for 6 seasons. With all their struggles on offense and with his coordinators getting their salaries capped leading to some turnover, Fox never once turned to McCoy to run the offense for him.

He's not a Sean Payton, who broke in for a couple of years as a QB coach under Andy Reed, then moved to coach em under Fassel, and Jim was so impressed that he handed the keys to the offense to him after one season.

As Lancane says, the guys who are looking at him as an OC are not likely to give him full playcalling either. If Fox believes he can run a quality offense from scratch, then he's the first in McCoy's career to believe that, other than maybe McCoy himself.

McCoy is a position coach trying to be a coordinator, IMO. I'm fine with him staying on staff as a QB coach.

But most of the good things that happened in the games he coached are because Tebow made some ridiculous play. It wasn't scripted or planned, and rarely happened as laid out on paper.

I remember those days. Those were the John Elway 80s, where Dan called another repetitive play and John had to figure out how to muscle up and win another one for us.

I don't think Tebow is Elway, so I don't want to put him in position to have to try to be. The OC can and should script to get the most out of Tebow, not rely on Tebow to bail him out.

I think McCoy is more of the latter, that's all. We'll see what develops with our coordinator choices as the day rolls on.

~G

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 06:45 PM
. . .

I remember those days. Those were the John Elway 80s, where Dan called another repetitive play and John had to figure out how to muscle up and win another one for us.

I don't think Tebow is Elway, . . .

~G

In this regard, he very well could be ~G.

G_Money
01-13-2011, 06:48 PM
Addendum:

Maybe we'll get lucky, and McCoy (if selected as OC) learned enough about the passing game from McDaniels to supplement the heavy dose of running game he had in Carolina. I wouldn't consider any of his Carolina guys to be masters, so it's not like I can appreciate his apprenticeship in the intricacies of a pro offense before he came to Denver. But everyone talks about Josh's knowledge of the game, and maybe that rubbed off on McCoy - and he'll have better luck with more skilled position coaches under him and some time to implement his own offense.

Hopefully that's the case. It's just not the first bet I'd try to make.

~G

G_Money
01-13-2011, 06:50 PM
In this regard, he very well could be ~G.

He might be that sort of improviser, but I don't want our success to ride on him needing to be one every week. :beer:

~G

HORSEPOWER 56
01-13-2011, 06:55 PM
McCoy was the QB coach in Carolina for 6 seasons. With all their struggles on offense and with his coordinators getting their salaries capped leading to some turnover, Fox never once turned to McCoy to run the offense for him.

He's not a Sean Payton, who broke in for a couple of years as a QB coach under Andy Reed, then moved to coach em under Fassel, and Jim was so impressed that he handed the keys to the offense to him after one season.

As Lancane says, the guys who are looking at him as an OC are not likely to give him full playcalling either. If Fox believes he can run a quality offense from scratch, then he's the first in McCoy's career to believe that, other than maybe McCoy himself.

McCoy is a position coach trying to be a coordinator, IMO. I'm fine with him staying on staff as a QB coach.

But most of the good things that happened in the games he coached are because Tebow made some ridiculous play. It wasn't scripted or planned, and rarely happened as laid out on paper.

I remember those days. Those were the John Elway 80s, where Dan called another repetitive play and John had to figure out how to muscle up and win another one for us.

I don't think Tebow is Elway, so I don't want to put him in position to have to try to be. The OC can and should script to get the most out of Tebow, not rely on Tebow to bail him out.

I think McCoy is more of the latter, that's all. We'll see what develops with our coordinator choices as the day rolls on.

~G

I hear what you're saying, G. The only thing I really have to go on with McCoy is the results he produced when he actually was allowed to call the plays himself. Did I like all the QB draws on 3rd and long? No, they were asinine. I did, however, like that every game where Tebow started and McCoy coached, we scored over 20 points on offense and always seemed to have a chance to win.

Like I said, I don't have much to base my opinion of McCoy on, but when I sit here 2 weeks later and think of our offense from the last 3 games, it gives me hope that we can keep that type of scoring up. Now finally with a defensive HC, if we can get that defense back up even in the teens in scoring, half of the games we normally lose, we will start to win. Before you know it, we're back to 8-8, then maybe 10-6 and in the playoff hunt. That's what I'm hoping for.

Fix the defense and keep the offense even just competitive and we're 100X better than we have been the last 2 years!

dogfish
01-13-2011, 07:23 PM
i wanna know who the QB coach is. . .

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 07:27 PM
He might be that sort of improviser, but I don't want our success to ride on him needing to be one every week. :beer:

~G

I agree and disagree at the same time.

:confused:

G_Money
01-13-2011, 07:32 PM
My current hope for the 2011 Broncos coaching staff:

OC - Fassel
----QB Coach - McCoy
DC - Trgovac (came out of the Ray Rhodes school and then on to Fox, now under Capers)

I could see that being interesting.

~G

BroncoJoe
01-13-2011, 07:34 PM
My current hope for the 2011 Broncos coaching staff:

OC - Fassel
----QB Coach - McCoy
DC - Trgovac (came out of the Ray Rhodes school and then on to Fox, now under Capers)

I could see that being interesting.

~G

I was thinking about Fassel as OC earlier. Wonder if he'd take the position.

In lieu of the feelings toward McCoy, I'd prefer we retain him in some capacity - especially considering he's already worked with and understands Tebow.

DC - no idea, since Fox is pretty good in that regard.

Lancane
01-13-2011, 07:35 PM
My current hope for the 2011 Broncos coaching staff:

OC - Fassel
----QB Coach - McCoy
DC - Trgovac (came out of the Ray Rhodes school and then on to Fox, now under Capers)

I could see that being interesting.

~G

I would be perfectly optimistic with a staff like that.

Lancane
01-13-2011, 07:36 PM
DC - no idea, since Fox is pretty good in that regard.

Why not someone that was under him in Carolina before this year or someone he felt had the abilities on that staff?

hotcarl
01-13-2011, 07:36 PM
My current hope for the 2011 Broncos coaching staff:

OC - Fassel

~G

ok, lets wrap it up!

*whirls finger around in the air and looks backwards while pressing the delete button on your account and posts* :welcome:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-13-2011, 07:44 PM
My current hope for the 2011 Broncos coaching staff:

OC - Fassel
----QB Coach - McCoy
DC - Trgovac (came out of the Ray Rhodes school and then on to Fox, now under Capers)

I could see that being interesting.

~G

They are saying that Jim Mora Jr is high on Fox's list as DC. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

G_Money
01-13-2011, 07:49 PM
He's not as good as Trgovac. But we can't talk to T until Green Bay is out of the playoffs.

I'm willing to wait.

~G

Lancane
01-13-2011, 07:49 PM
They are saying that Jim Mora Jr is high on Fox's list as DC. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

I like him HP, but a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouths from his horrendous attempts at being a head coach. He was a solid secondary coach, and he was only a defensive coordinator for four years in San Fran under Mariucci.

dogfish
01-13-2011, 08:22 PM
i thought fox said he was open to sticking with the 3-4?

did i imagine that? mora is a 4-3 guy IIRC. . . so much for that, i guess. . .

hotcarl
01-13-2011, 08:53 PM
hpw abpout tyrone braxton as HC or DC? ?? the CHICKEN!!!

w00t chicket!!

hamrob
01-13-2011, 10:04 PM
McCoy did what he was asked to do. He ran McD's offense and Kyle Orton looked like a Pro bowl QB for much of the year. He is very good in terms of the passing game...not so much in the running game. Fox is aware of that and will bring in both a great RB and line coaches. We will have an improved running game next year and McCoy will continue to work wonders with the QB.

There's a reason that 2-3 other teams are trying to hire McCoy.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-13-2011, 11:17 PM
McCoy did what he was asked to do. He ran McD's offense and Kyle Orton looked like a Pro bowl QB for much of the year. He is very good in terms of the passing game...not so much in the running game. Fox is aware of that and will bring in both a great RB and line coaches. We will have an improved running game next year and McCoy will continue to work wonders with the QB.

There's a reason that 2-3 other teams are trying to hire McCoy.

Hopefully, Deangelo Williams wants to play for Fox again and we can coax him over here to Denver to play a little RB for us...

JDL
01-14-2011, 12:49 AM
I would be perfectly optimistic with a staff like that.

You people kill me....lol


Go look up Fassel's scoring offenses (AZ/NYG) and tell me in what mutha-fing way he should be an OC in the league ever again? and how he is better than what McCoy did in Carolina.

Fact is McCoy was the passing game coordinator, he was brought here for those skills under McD, he was responsible for turning Delhomme into a respectable QB. Carolina has had some outstanding people handling the running game which is how things were split. Davidson ran the rushing attack and McCoy the passing game... and the last year, as I've stated before, McCoy was with Fox they were the 7th best scoring offense... now again ANYONE mentioning Fassel go back and look at that guy's scoring offenses... it will sicken you! It did me... he's a name... and not a good one for moving forward... with any kind of reasonable offense.

Bosco
01-14-2011, 02:09 AM
It wasn't exactly the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

That's putting it lightly.

Dirk
01-14-2011, 08:09 AM
We have no way of knowing how McCoy will do as the OC really.

McD was basically the HC/OC. McCoy was his lap dog to work with the players.

I agree that once McCoy got his "real" chance in the last 3 games they weren't stellar as far as the play calling was concerned. That was due to the fact that Tebow didn't get to practice with the 1st team all season so they had to "dumb" down the playbook in order to keep it safe.

If they are going to start Tebow next year, they will open up the playbook much more. I am willing to see what McCoy can do.

The position I hope they hire someone with some mad skills at is WR coach. Our WRs need to learn how to get separation. In almost every game our WRs weren't getting any separation. I'm not sure if that is the design of the plays or not, but in most cases, the WRs weren't getting the separation needed.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling but I say give McCoy a shot next year.

TXBRONC
01-14-2011, 09:55 AM
i thought fox said he was open to sticking with the 3-4?

did i imagine that? mora is a 4-3 guy IIRC. . . so much for that, i guess. . .

He did say he was going to stick with a 3-4 and he does have experience working with a 3-4. It will be his decision anyway regardless of who they hire to run the defense.

Agent of Orange
01-14-2011, 10:36 AM
We have no way of knowing how McCoy will do as the OC really.

McD was basically the HC/OC. McCoy was his lap dog to work with the players.

I agree that once McCoy got his "real" chance in the last 3 games they weren't stellar as far as the play calling was concerned. That was due to the fact that Tebow didn't get to practice with the 1st team all season so they had to "dumb" down the playbook in order to keep it safe.

If they are going to start Tebow next year, they will open up the playbook much more. I am willing to see what McCoy can do.

The position I hope they hire someone with some mad skills at is WR coach. Our WRs need to learn how to get separation. In almost every game our WRs weren't getting any separation. I'm not sure if that is the design of the plays or not, but in most cases, the WRs weren't getting the separation needed.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling but I say give McCoy a shot next year.

So, basically McCoy would be another Brian Xanders. Awesome.

Dirk
01-14-2011, 11:06 AM
So, basically McCoy would be another Brian Xanders. Awesome.

:confused:

G_Money
01-14-2011, 11:08 AM
I don't want to be the team that breaks McCoy in while he tries on his big-boy pants for the first time. We're already breaking in Elway and Xanders in brand-new roles.

Here's hoping we go a different way at OC with a guy who is already potty-trained.

~G

HORSEPOWER 56
01-14-2011, 11:26 AM
I don't want to be the team that breaks McCoy in while he tries on his big-boy pants for the first time. We're already breaking in Elway and Xanders in brand-new roles.

Here's hoping we go a different way at OC with a guy who is already potty-trained.

~G

So when McCoy was the "passing game coordinator" in Carolina, what did that actually mean? I have no clue. Everyone knows mcCoy didn't call the plays until the last 4 games of the season, but it could've been worse. Our offensive output actually went UP when he started calling plays.

I would think everyone here that thought McDoogie was an offensive genius would love to keep McCoy around seeing as he just learned his system from him...

Isn't that why everybody wanted Dennison? Because he learned from Shanny, Kubes, and Gibbs?

Obviously because other teams are interested in McCoy (unlike Dennison, I might add - only the Broncos ever give him a courtesy call) they must think something about him is good. That's something, I guess.

horsepig
01-14-2011, 11:47 AM
IMO, McCoy did a pretty sweet job calling the games for TT against Houston and SD. I"m down with this one.

MadMax
01-14-2011, 01:48 PM
I think McCoy might be better than we think, he learned to coach under Fox and also learned McDaniels(Bellicheats) scheme. I know it's all make believe at this point, but this background could allow him to inject more passing into what people have called Fox's "boring" offense. Not to mention he's familiar with our roster, and could greatly ease the transition.

And honestly, we don't know what McCoy can do good or bad. McDaniels handled play calling because he was a micromanager, not because of a shortcoming on McCoy's part.

silkamilkamonico
01-14-2011, 01:57 PM
They are saying that Jim Mora Jr is high on Fox's list as DC. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

No. Terrible coach, and if I have to look at his sly little grin every time they show the sideline I[m going to be breaking some tv's.

silkamilkamonico
01-14-2011, 01:59 PM
McCoy did what he was asked to do. He ran McD's offense and Kyle Orton looked like a Pro bowl QB for much of the year. He is very good in terms of the passing game...not so much in the running game. Fox is aware of that and will bring in both a great RB and line coaches. We will have an improved running game next year and McCoy will continue to work wonders with the QB.

There's a reason that 2-3 other teams are trying to hire McCoy.

Let's not kid ourselves. That offense was the way it was because of McDaniels, not McCoy. McCoy started calling plays when McDaniels was fired, and if the games he called in the last 4 or so are any indication, Denver is in a world of hurt.

underrated29
01-14-2011, 02:15 PM
Let's not kid ourselves. That offense was the way it was because of McDaniels, not McCoy. McCoy started calling plays when McDaniels was fired, and if the games he called in the last 4 or so are any indication, Denver is in a world of hurt.

Plus. Plus. Plus.


Lets see Mccoy games.....


1st down- 1st quarter.-bubble screen left.
2nd down- Bubble screen right.
3rd down- tebow keeper
punt

1st down- run
2nd down bubble screen
3rd down-screen
punt

1st down-run
2nd down-run
3rd down-pass
punt

2nd quarter
1st down-run
2nd down-run
3rd down-run
4thdown-tebow run

turnover on downs

1st down-run (same formation, play etc)
2nd down-hmmmm- run- (same formation play etc)
3rd down pass- 1st down

1 st down- no, it cant be a - run
2nd down- same formation, how about run-run
3rd down- tebow keeper
punt




And watch as we employ these same 10 plays over and over and over again.

Lancane
01-14-2011, 02:25 PM
I think McCoy might be better than we think, he learned to coach under Fox and also learned McDaniels(Bellicheats) scheme. I know it's all make believe at this point, but this background could allow him to inject more passing into what people have called Fox's "boring" offense. Not to mention he's familiar with our roster, and could greatly ease the transition.

And honestly, we don't know what McCoy can do good or bad. McDaniels handled play calling because he was a micromanager, not because of a shortcoming on McCoy's part.

I'm not really comfortable with him as the offensive coordinator, I know a lot of people are going on about him being the passing game coordinator in Carolina, but he only got that title a year or so before joining Denver, before that he was strictly the quarterbacks coach, and before that an offensive assistant, he was promoted to the wide receivers coach position and then demoted from that position back to offensive assistant after one season? Why was he named to the passing game coordinator position? Some feel it was because he spent nearly five seasons as nothing more then a quarterbacks coach that was never worth a promotion and Fox must have felt otherwise.

He has spent not even two full seasons under Josh McDaniels, and we know that he was not as involved as McDaniels was with the offense, he micromanaged all aspects of this team. I'd be more comfortable if McCoy has shown a capacity for the position, his entire coaching career is stemmed from his time in Carolina and here in Denver, he's never been a positional coach for another team nor at collegiate level. Literally everything he knows is from those he's been under, when you look at the overall offensive stats for Carolina when he was there as the passing game coordinator, he had one solid season, but we are asking this kid to run the offense with the equivalent of three years in a coordinator capacity to run an offense completely on his own, and up till the final three games of the season he has never called a play? It'd be different if we had an offensive minded head coach, but we don't and one thing you need when in that sort of position is experience.

People are so stoked that we have a defensive minded head coach, and I understand them being that way, but you can not neglect the offense for the defensive side of the ball...we should understand that best of all, because we saw the opposite for so damn long, neglecting the defense in case of the offense constantly and almost thoughtlessly.

MadMax
01-14-2011, 02:55 PM
I'm not really comfortable with him as the offensive coordinator, I know a lot of people are going on about him being the passing game coordinator in Carolina, but he only got that title a year or so before joining Denver, before that he was strictly the quarterbacks coach, and before that an offensive assistant, he was promoted to the wide receivers coach position and then demoted from that position back to offensive assistant after one season? Why was he named to the passing game coordinator position? Some feel it was because he spent nearly five seasons as nothing more then a quarterbacks coach that was never worth a promotion and Fox must have felt otherwise.

He has spent not even two full seasons under Josh McDaniels, and we know that he was not as involved as McDaniels was with the offense, he micromanaged all aspects of this team. I'd be more comfortable if McCoy has shown a capacity for the position, his entire coaching career is stemmed from his time in Carolina and here in Denver, he's never been a positional coach for another team nor at collegiate level. Literally everything he knows is from those he's been under, when you look at the overall offensive stats for Carolina when he was there as the passing game coordinator, he had one solid season, but we are asking this kid to run the offense with the equivalent of three years in a coordinator capacity to run an offense completely on his own, and up till the final three games of the season he has never called a play? It'd be different if we had an offensive minded head coach, but we don't and one thing you need when in that sort of position is experience.

People are so stoked that we have a defensive minded head coach, and I understand them being that way, but you can not neglect the offense for the defensive side of the ball...we should understand that best of all, because we saw the opposite for so damn long, neglecting the defense in case of the offense constantly and almost thoughtlessly.

All good points, I still think that we just haven't seen what he can do since he only had 4 games, had a rookie QB for three of them and was calling an offense that belonged to someone else. But those could be red flags in his career path. Luckily we hired John Fox and he's probably one of the only people who knows why McCoy was promoted and demoted when he was.

My fear is that we hire a new OC and make McCoy QB coach again. That would be a huge mistake. The QB coach we hire will probably have the most impact on the future of the Broncos as he will greatly determine weather Tebow develops into a great QB or not.

BroncoJoe
01-14-2011, 03:01 PM
Let's not kid ourselves. That offense was the way it was because of McDaniels, not McCoy. McCoy started calling plays when McDaniels was fired, and if the games he called in the last 4 or so are any indication, Denver is in a world of hurt.


Plus. Plus. Plus.


Lets see Mccoy games.....

Seriously. Are you two really that stupid? Did you expect them to completely rewrite the playbook with three - four weeks left in the season?

They had to work with what they had practiced all season long, with a QB that did not get many reps at all in practice. It will not be the same next year.

underrated29
01-14-2011, 03:11 PM
Seriously. Are you two really that stupid? Did you expect them to completely rewrite the playbook with three - four weeks left in the season?

They had to work with what they had practiced all season long, with a QB that did not get many reps at all in practice. It will not be the same next year.




Joe- I love you man. You need to play defense for the broncos. Your attitude is exactly what we are missing out there.


Problem is, mccoy did not call the plays that they had been practicing all season long. The playcalling went significantly down. I am sure that you will find very very very few people on any of the broncos sites taht did not hate the playcalling for tebows 3 starts and did not think it was extremely predictable.

Had mccoy called the last 3 somewhat closer to what we did earlier in the season I would have been ok with it. I am personally still not fond of his playcalling but that stems back to 2 years ago. As i have said repeatedly that mccoy refuses to work the middle of the field and absolutely nothing withing the 6-10 yard range. Which also has an effect on the run game. But I have made that post a thousand times so there is no going over it again.

Lancane
01-14-2011, 03:19 PM
All good points, I still think that we just haven't seen what he can do since he only had 4 games, had a rookie QB for three of them and was calling an offense that belonged to someone else. But those could be red flags in his career path. Luckily we hired John Fox and he's probably one of the only people who knows why McCoy was promoted and demoted when he was.

My fear is that we hire a new OC and make McCoy QB coach again. That would be a huge mistake. The QB coach we hire will probably have the most impact on the future of the Broncos as he will greatly determine weather Tebow develops into a great QB or not.

Have we seen what McCoy can do? I've honestly agreed that four games is hard to judge a coordinators' capacity as an offensive coordinator, especially given that he was starting a raw quarterback for three of those contests.

Yet, we saw him given the keys before Tebow was even named the starter, he was given the same offense that for a better part of the season was one of the better passing offenses in the league, remember he was the passing game coordinator in Carolina, that is the argument people have used in his favor. Do I dare remind people of the ass whooping we received at the hands of the Cardinals? The passing offense was down right horrid, that game would have cost most passing specialist their jobs, it wasn't against a vaunted defense either. I can not sit here and in good conscientiousness say that he showed a great sense for handling an offensive game-plan or running an offense without supervision.

We need experience, someone that has had experience with several different offenses, not just spread variants and who has cut their teeth a little more, we saw that even Josh McDaniels as an supposed offensive genius couldn't even instill a solid pro-spread as is, and unlike McCoy, McDaniels learned under some of the better spread coordinators to have coached that particular offensive system.

The way I look at it, would you give your nineteen year old son the keys to your new Ferrari and let him drive it without supervision, even if he had been driving since he was sixteen and had a clean driving record? Most would say not a chance in living hell! That is pretty much what we'd be doing. Only way I'd be comfortable with McCoy as the offensive coordinator is if he was supervised, say we hire an experienced offensive minded coach to be the Assistant Head Coach, then I'd be fine.

G_Money
01-14-2011, 03:25 PM
Lancane and I rarely agree this much.

I'm suspicious. :tinfoil3:

~G

MadMax
01-14-2011, 03:25 PM
The way I look at it, would you give your nineteen year old son the keys to your new Ferrari and let him drive it without supervision, even if he had been driving since he was sixteen and had a clean driving record? Most would say not a chance in living hell! That is pretty much what we'd be doing. Only way I'd be comfortable with McCoy as the offensive coordinator is if he was supervised, say we hire an experienced offensive minded coach to be the Assistant Head Coach, then I'd be fine.

If I had a Ferrari I would be driving around looking for my new 19 year old girlfriend.

Lancane
01-14-2011, 03:34 PM
Seriously. Are you two really that stupid? Did you expect them to completely rewrite the playbook with three - four weeks left in the season?

They had to work with what they had practiced all season long, with a QB that did not get many reps at all in practice. It will not be the same next year.

Are you much better? You're attacking posters for their opinions Joe, that is what a message board is about, the sharing of opinions, notions and ideas on a given collective of subjects. Just because people don't see from your point of view does not make them ignorant or less intelligent then others, in two days I have seen you belittle more posters then I've done on all the boards I'm associated with in a span of three or four years. Why? Because some didn't want to hire John Fox, isn't that based on a person's own preference? If someone sees it differently then you, that's just it...they see it differently. Not everyone thinks alike, just like some coaches do not coach the same way, some are hard asses and others are more lighthearted and can not bring themselves to be that way...doesn't make them a bad coach, just different.

I do understand where you're coming from, I've said before that he hasn't had the time to really be judged, but when you look at his resume and add in what we've seen I don't feel comfortable with him in that position, not yet. Hopefully he proves me wrong, but that's just it...he has a lot to prove, till then?

Lancane
01-14-2011, 03:38 PM
If I had a Ferrari I would be driving around looking for my new 19 year old girlfriend.

19 year old girlfriend? :shocked:

:lol:

silkamilkamonico
01-14-2011, 03:39 PM
Seriously. Are you two really that stupid? Did you expect them to completely rewrite the playbook with three - four weeks left in the season?

They had to work with what they had practiced all season long, with a QB that did not get many reps at all in practice. It will not be the same next year.


I don't know if you even bothered watching the games after McDaniels was fired, but McCoy called games that were nothing like before. Nobody expected Denver to rewrite the playbooks. But nobody expected them to eliminate about 85% of them either.

MadMax
01-14-2011, 03:50 PM
I don't know if you even bothered watching the games after McDaniels was fired, but McCoy called games that were nothing like before. Nobody expected Denver to rewrite the playbooks. But nobody expected them to eliminate about 85% of them either.

I saw this too, but after watching Tebow overthrow guys on short passes so many times in the SD game(for the record I still think he did better against SD at the end of the year than any Bronco QB has for 3 years) I began to wonder if this elimination of 85% of the playbook had more to do with Tebow not being able to execute it than McCoy's ignorance.

Lancane
01-14-2011, 03:56 PM
I don't know if you even bothered watching the games after McDaniels was fired, but McCoy called games that were nothing like before. Nobody expected Denver to rewrite the playbooks. But nobody expected them to eliminate about 85% of them either.

I don't think they eliminated the playbook Silk, they just went so conservative that a good three-quarters of the playbook was unusable. And I don't think that it was all simply because Tebow was raw, we saw Tebow run the same offense Orton did against Houston and well enough that we won that game. The problem was that the coaches were coaching to keep their jobs, not to win...and that can hinder what you're willing to do as a coach and with you're game-plan in general. McCoy had to evolve somewhat without help and delve into his own psyche to make needed changes and adjustments, we saw some of that with Oakland and more so with San Diego, but even then, we saw that his lack of experience hindered him more then his own creativity, because what we saw while interesting was far from a respective NFL offense.

I think McCoy could be an excellent coordinator, some day...I'm just not comfortable with him taking the helm of an offense completely with no supervision to help guide him, especially with his lack in credentials and let's face it, his lack of football knowledge on other schemes and systems. His game-planning was atrocious, and that comes with experience. But I don't think his experience should come at the expense of this team.

NightTerror218
01-14-2011, 03:58 PM
I dont think McCoy is the answer....McDaniels ran the offense he was just a puppet. I would like to Dennison or Koetter. Both have Denver ties and i think would bring in a good offense to Denver. Koetter really likes Tebow and likes a running offense which Fox wants to bring.

Lancane
01-14-2011, 04:03 PM
I dont think McCoy is the answer....McDaniels ran the offense he was just a puppet. I would like to Dennison or Koetter. Both have Denver ties and i think would bring in a good offense to Denver. Koetter really likes Tebow and likes a running offense which Fox wants to bring.

If we could actually get Koetter to become the AHC/OC I'd go ape-shit, it would be like Christmas all over again.

Bosco
01-14-2011, 04:40 PM
So when McCoy was the "passing game coordinator" in Carolina, what did that actually mean? Glorified positional coach, kinda like Dennison was under Shanahan.


I would think everyone here that thought McDoogie was an offensive genius would love to keep McCoy around seeing as he just learned his system from him... It didn't look like McDaniels offense when McCoy took over. When McCoy took over it's like we completely forgot what the shotgun was.