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dogfish
09-23-2007, 06:25 PM
okay, obviously it's not-- i just wanted to start a thread to say how nice it is to come on the board and not have to deal with all that junk. . . that was a bitter, ugly loss, and i doubt any of us are feeling particularly good right now, but i love not having to listen to an inordinant amount of whining about a team that's still in first place. . . doesn't mean we shouldn't be unhappy about some of the things that went down today, but i want to commend everyone's posting discipline-- well done peeps!

TXBRONC
09-23-2007, 06:30 PM
okay, obviously it's not-- i just wanted to start a thread to say how nice it is to come on the board and not have to deal with all that junk. . . that was a bitter, ugly loss, and i doubt any of us are feeling particularly good right now, but i love not having to listen to an inordinant amount of whining about a team that's still in first place. . . doesn't mean we shouldn't be unhappy about some of the things that went down today, but i want to commend everyone's posting discipline-- well done peeps!

Yep all you can get dust yourself and move forward. Even in this loss there are bright spots. We know we have quaterback that doesn't crumble under pressure and has the ability to keep the team in the game even when things are not going well.

BigBroncLove
09-23-2007, 06:31 PM
Well ,there is some serious discussion goin on in the game day thread, but overall, I think the reaction here (in compared to other un-named boards) is very good. It was a disheartening loss to an opponent I think we needed to beat before we hit the road, but it isn't always easy to win week in and week out in the NFL, and I hope the Broncos can adjust to this loss and become a more solid team. The defense didn't do anything to make me start to think things are looking up and up, and the offensive line didn;t play well, even with Henderson out, but if it weren;t for some questionable coaching calls (no FG, 4 and 5 in our own territory, and the two TO wasted) I think the Broncos could have been in the game till the end.

Just have to hope we can upset Indy and hold onto that one game lead.... Thank you Packers :salute:

BroncoWave
09-23-2007, 06:32 PM
And at least those of us who are negative kept it in the game thread instead of starting 100 useless threads. :beer:

BigBroncLove
09-23-2007, 06:33 PM
And at least those of us who are negative kept it in the game thread instead of starting 100 useless threads. :beer:

:beer: :D :ahhhhh:

On a side note, my FF team is winning. Small conselation prize for a die hard Bronco fan, but it's soemthing I guess....

topscribe
09-23-2007, 06:35 PM
I agree with you to a degree, Dogfish. However, there is nothing wrong with
discussing where the team's weaknesses are, what went wrong, who's hot
who's not, etc., or even venting a little.

-----

dogfish
09-23-2007, 06:36 PM
Well ,there is some serious discussion goin on in the game day thread, but overall, I think the reaction here (in compared to other un-named boards) is very good. It was a disheartening loss to an opponent I think we needed to beat before we hit the road, but it isn't always easy to win week in and week out in the NFL, and I hope the Broncos can adjust to this loss and become a more solid team. The defense didn't do anything to make me start to think things are looking up and up, and the offensive line didn;t play well, even with Henderson out, but if it weren;t for some questionable coaching calls (no FG, 4 and 5 in our own territory, and the two TO wasted) I think the Broncos could have been in the game till the end.

Just have to hope we can upset Indy and hold onto that one game lead.... Thank you Packers :salute:

i admit, i had to stop by that un-named forum and check out the fury, just to remind myself what i WASN'T missing, and how nice and calm it is here. . . :lol:

Denver Native (Carol)
09-23-2007, 06:37 PM
As I posted in the game day thread a few minutes ago - Jacksonville has ALWAYS been a tough match for us.

topscribe
09-23-2007, 06:37 PM
i admit, i had to stop by that un-named forum and check out the fury, just to remind myself what i WASN'T missing, and how nice and calm it is here. . . :lol:

You can expect emotion in there, from everybody . . . including me. :noidea:

-----

BroncoWave
09-23-2007, 06:37 PM
i admit, i had to stop by that un-named forum and check out the fury, just to remind myself what i WASN'T missing, and how nice and calm it is here. . . :lol:

Yeah, they've already filled the first 3-4 pages with venting threads. Impressive! :D

Tned
09-23-2007, 06:37 PM
And at least those of us who are negative kept it in the game thread instead of starting 100 useless threads. :beer:

And CP to you, errrr....

And, a High Five to you, errrr...

Well, cheers :beer: to you for that! :D

BroncoWave
09-23-2007, 06:39 PM
And CP to you, errrr....

And, a High Five to you, errrr...

Well, cheers :beer: to you for that! :D

Thanks for the "CP" lol! :D :elefant:

dogfish
09-23-2007, 06:40 PM
I agree with you to a degree, Dogfish. However, there is nothing wrong with
discussing where the team's weaknesses are, what went wrong, who's hot
who's not, etc., or even venting a little.

-----

oh, certainly! don't think i didn't do plenty of swearing at my TV today. . . we obviously have some fairly serious problems, and need to fix them if this team is going to do anything this year. . . but it's nice when people can discuss them without having to deal with "ZOMG we SUX!!!111!!!111 i can't beleve it, why do we always sux so bad, we codn't bete a hhigh skool team bcuz we can't tackle and everyone but champ sux lol111!!!!1111!!!!" etc etc. . .

i'm just taking a moment to step back and appreciate the relative maturity and ratiopnality of this place-- IMO it's one advantage of not having the same volume of traffic. . .

topscribe
09-23-2007, 06:46 PM
oh, certainly! don't think i didn't do plenty of swearing at my TV today. . . we obviously have some fairly serious problems, and need to fix them if this team is going to do anything this year. . . but it's nice when people can discuss them without having to deal with "ZOMG we SUX!!!111!!!111 i can't beleve it, why do we always sux so bad, we codn't bete a hhigh skool team bcuz we can't tackle and everyone but champ sux lol111!!!!1111!!!!" etc etc. . .

i'm just taking a moment to step back and appreciate the relative maturity and ratiopnality of this place-- IMO it's one advantage of not having the same volume of traffic. . .

You know, this is a relatively nice atmosphere in here, isn't it? :smile:

-----

BroncoWave
09-23-2007, 06:50 PM
I'm really not that mad anymore. Still pessimistic about the upcoming schedule but I'm already over this loss. On to Indy!

DenBronx
09-23-2007, 06:51 PM
pretty ugly game but i think our offense is the next best thing. there are some real good positives talent wise. this is the first time ive been pissed at shannys play calling though. the defense was exposed and thats ok...if its not exposed now then it will get exposed later...id rather see us adjust what we need to before its too late.

cutler, bmarsh, sauerbrun and elvis impressed me today.


no excuses for hixon. i kept hearing he cant get blocks, he cant get blocks...well you need to run in order to get blocks...he's not the answer...not even close.

Simple Jaded
09-23-2007, 06:54 PM
As I posted in the game day thread a few minutes ago - Jacksonville has ALWAYS been a tough match for us.


Physical teams will always give the Broncos all they want.

Baltimore is at the top of the list.

Hopefully Bates will bring a more physical mentality once he gets the DT's he desperately needs (Though I'm still not sold on Bates), but I don't see the offense ever being able to handle these types of defense with any consistency. Although I wouldn't put too much blame on the offense for this one...

I thought Denver would win this game, I'm just not surprised they didn't...

JRB
09-23-2007, 06:58 PM
There's no doubt that it was a tough loss. Still, it's not all over, there's a long while left in the season.

I'm glad that everyone here seems to realilze that.

:beer:

Watchthemiddle
09-23-2007, 07:01 PM
There's no doubt that it was a tough loss. Still, it's not all over, there's a long while left in the season.

I'm glad that everyone here seems to realilze that.

:beer:

BYO, TOP, Dog...I like all of ya's...but its not all peaches and cream.

Its easy to say we are okay, there is always next week...its a tough loss...blah blah blah...but lets talk reality here.

I want to talk about the lose. I want to talk about the Positives and Negatives...

Not just gloss over them.

Nomad
09-23-2007, 07:02 PM
It's hard to swallow when you're at home and get manhandled. I understand that Denver has a hard time with the Balt., Pitt, and Jax but as a fan you do expect more from your coaches and players especially at home. Venting is ok amongst fans as long as it's under control because I told my wife the BRONCOS lost and she says, "Oh well who cares".:bncry:

Tned
09-23-2007, 07:06 PM
It's hard to swallow when you're at home and get manhandled. I understand that Denver has a hard time with the Balt., Pitt, and Jax but as a fan you do expect more from your coaches and players especially at home. Venting is ok amongst fans as long as it's under control because I told my wife the BRONCOS lost and she says, "Oh well who cares".:bncry:

As they said during the telecast, the Broncos have the best home record in the NFL over the last 30 years, but are something like 2-4 in their last six (I think that is what they said) and you can add another loss to that.

BigBroncLove
09-23-2007, 07:06 PM
It's hard to swallow when you're at home and get manhandled. I understand that Denver has a hard time with the Balt., Pitt, and Jax but as a fan you do expect more from your coaches and players especially at home. Venting is ok amongst fans as long as it's under control because I told my wife the BRONCOS lost and she says, "Oh well who cares".:bncry:

What? After something like that, I think it's time to cut the ball and chain! :ballchain: :bolt: ;) j/k

JRB
09-23-2007, 07:11 PM
BYO, TOP, Dog...I like all of ya's...but its not all peaches and cream.

Its easy to say we are okay, there is always next week...its a tough loss...blah blah blah...but lets talk reality here.

I want to talk about the lose. I want to talk about the Positives and Negatives...

Not just gloss over them.


It's definitely not all peaches and cream, there's no denying that. The run defense is going to have to improve. They have to improve on their tackling, and the d-line is going to have hold their places better. Am I the only one who thinks that Marcus Thomas should see more PT?

There is a ton of room for improvement. I guess I'm optimistic because I'm fairly confident that the team's performance can be improved by the coaching staff in place.

topscribe
09-23-2007, 07:13 PM
BYO, TOP, Dog...I like all of ya's...but its not all peaches and cream.

Its easy to say we are okay, there is always next week...its a tough loss...blah blah blah...but lets talk reality here.

I want to talk about the lose. I want to talk about the Positives and Negatives...

Not just gloss over them.

Yes, I tried to make that point earlier.

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
09-23-2007, 07:15 PM
Then let's talk about the positives and negatives instead of talking about talking about them. . . shall we?

Slick
09-23-2007, 08:09 PM
Then let's talk about the positives and negatives instead of talking about talking about them. . . shall we?

That 12 minute drive is still bothering me.

Marshall was awesome today.

Cutler played well also( when he was able to take snaps).

Initially , it looked like Graham caught that ball, I was excited only to become depressed.(I thought coach made the right call on that)

I thought our tackling stunk today. We missed Lynch.

The run blocking really stunk, I'd have hated to have seen what we would have done with a healthy John Henderson out there.

I'm hungover from last night and have nothing more to add.:salute:

Skinny
09-23-2007, 08:18 PM
"Win or lose, your never the same team you were last week" ~ Lou Holtz

Let's hope that holds true next Sunday.

I'm sure the players and coaching staff are kicking themself in the butt after this one.

If they have one left!

Props to JVilles players and coaching staff though, they were well prepared for this game.

pnbronco
09-23-2007, 09:08 PM
You know, this is a relatively nice atmosphere in here, isn't it? :smile:

-----

Yes it is. It's ok to be fustrated and we all are, but its nice to not be bashed, so thank you one and all. :D

broncosfanscott
09-23-2007, 09:13 PM
That 17 minuted advantage in time of possession was uncalled for and I hope there are no more 12-minute drives. I mean 12 minutes........are you kidding me. I don't think I have ever seen a drive that long.

Marshall played well and I am not surprised. The running game went nowhere. A bad running game after two good ones will happen especially against JAX, which always plays us tough. Last year our offense was struggling to score points and they came out to play vs. IND. Hopefully we will bring our A game next week because if we don't put any pressure on Manning then we will have to outscore them.

Turnovers will kill your chances of winning and our two fumbles led to 6 points (despite the loss, glad it was only 6).

Our defense is still a work in progress. Run defense needs to show up. Even though the defense had a bad day, they still forced the Jaguars to 3 FGs on drives that could have resulted in TDs.

topscribe
09-23-2007, 09:13 PM
Then let's talk about the positives and negatives instead of talking about talking about them. . . shall we?
You go ahead and talk about them. If you have somthing to say about it, let's
hear it. But it is not your job to moderate this thread. :coffee:

-----

ChampWJ
09-23-2007, 09:26 PM
That 17 minuted advantage in time of possession was uncalled for and I hope there are no more 12-minute drives. I mean 12 minutes........are you kidding me. I don't think I have ever seen a drive that long.


Not only was it uncalled for, but it was completely unacceptable. 40 minutes of possession to 20. Come on! I would like to see some kind of stat on how many teams have won games being on the bad end of that kind of possession discrepancy.

Chidoze
09-23-2007, 09:50 PM
You know, for the 1st time this year I went on a former favorite message board on gameday.

I am completely confused at some of the crap that was posted earlier there.

Call yourself a "True Fan" or whatever you want, but I know a crybaby when I see and hear one.

Sickening, now I remember why I dont go there anymore.

I even saw a thread to "Fire Larry Coyer"..........:laugh:

BigBroncLove
09-23-2007, 09:55 PM
You know, for the 1st time this year I went on a former favorite message board on gameday.

I am completely confused at some of the crap that was posted earlier there.

Call yourself a "True Fan" or whatever you want, but I know a crybaby when I see and hear one.

Sickening, now I remember why I dont go there anymore.

I even saw a thread to "Fire Larry Coyer"..........:laugh:

I avoid that palce at all costs after bronco losses, even last year with all the QB controversy going on....

Now though, the discussions have boiled down more toward who can post the most, rather then relying on real knowledge, logic, and interesting discussion of opinions. I truely believe the average posting age has dropped a good 5 - 10 years :sad:

Chidoze
09-23-2007, 10:00 PM
I avoid that palce at all costs after bronco losses, even last year with all the QB controversy going on....

Now though, the discussions have boiled down more toward who can post the most, rather then relying on real knowledge, logic, and interesting discussion of opinions. I truely believe the average posting age has dropped a good 5 - 10 years :sad:
Probably.

How lame though.....a once great football forum reduced to children making duplicate threads and crying about how much the Broncos suck and to fire everyone and start over, after the 1st loss of the year.

I am not going back there to post..........especially with all that stupidity going around.

It might be contagious and I dont want to be stupid. :ahhhhh:

Medford Bronco
09-23-2007, 10:04 PM
I just have to say that I think this team has a long way to go IF we
think they can be a 10-6 playoff team.

Its not getting any easier with Indy and SD up next as well.

We will see IF this team has any character next week.

DenBronx
09-23-2007, 10:04 PM
You know, for the 1st time this year I went on a former favorite message board on gameday.

I am completely confused at some of the crap that was posted earlier there.

Call yourself a "True Fan" or whatever you want, but I know a crybaby when I see and hear one.

Sickening, now I remember why I dont go there anymore.

I even saw a thread to "Fire Larry Coyer"..........:laugh:


yeah its pretty pathetic

BigBroncLove
09-23-2007, 10:08 PM
Probably.

How lame though.....a once great football forum reduced to children making duplicate threads and crying about how much the Broncos suck and to fire everyone and start over, after the 1st loss of the year.

I am not going back there to post..........especially with all that stupidity going around.

It might be contagious and I dont want to be stupid. :ahhhhh:

LOL, agreed, but I'll leave it at that. The overall feeling by many is coexistence with other baords, and I agree with it (I know you do to mano), so I don't want to get to down on other places that talk Bronco football....

On a side note, at least the Broncos Jag game won't be exciting enough to show to often throughout the week on analysis shows :heh:

Chidoze
09-23-2007, 10:11 PM
LOL, agreed, but I'll leave it at that. The overall feeling by many is coexistence with other baords, and I agree with it (I know you do to mano), so I don't want to get to down on other places that talk Bronco football....

On a side note, at least the Broncos Jag game won't be exciting enough to show to often throughout the week on analysis shows :heh:
Fo Sho :cool:

Reidman
09-23-2007, 10:20 PM
All I am going to say is we would probably have a better chance at stopping the run if they all held hands and chanted "red rover, red rover, send (insert whatever RB you want) right over" Majpr negative there is our porous run defense.

Positives: Marshall (where has this kid been hiding), Cutler looked good rolling out, Stokley continues to impress in clutch situations.

Got to be honest, I'm getting slightly worried at a playoff run. We keep playing like we did today, we'll be lucky to make wildcard weekend.

Watchthemiddle
09-23-2007, 10:55 PM
I even saw a thread to "Fire Larry Coyer"..........:laugh:

Thats typical.

That made me laugh out loud and how many people are so un-educated at their own "team".

Still.....:rofl:

dogfish
09-23-2007, 11:39 PM
BYO, TOP, Dog...I like all of ya's...but its not all peaches and cream.

Its easy to say we are okay, there is always next week...its a tough loss...blah blah blah...but lets talk reality here.

I want to talk about the lose. I want to talk about the Positives and Negatives...

Not just gloss over them.

hey, i'm not trying to gloss anything over, far from it-- just pointing out that it's nice having a place where we can discuss them without a bunch of moronic "fire shanahan" threads popping up. . .


so, let's discuss 'em then. . .


NEGATIVES

run efense-- really, what else needs to be said? we played plenty of eight-man fronts and STILL couldn't stop them. . . having lynch out didn't help, and having gold and burton in sure doesn't seem to help much-- i often get the feeling we're playing with nine or ten defenders out there. . .

i said in my breakdown that i was afraid of garrard getting loose and making big first downs, and he did just that-- i'd have expected us to be more aware of him as a runner, but several times he had wide open lanes that looked like the parting of the red sea. . .

everyone's human, but we made graham one of (if not the) highest paid TEs in league history-- it'd sure be nice to see him make that catch. . .

selvin young has the talent to be a weapon, but if he continues to fumble the ball like he did in college he's going to find himself a nice seat on the bench. . .

sometimes i feel like shanahan wastes timeouts challenging things we don't have much of a shot at winning-- i know he's got a pretty good success precentage, but today i thought that challenge looked like an act of desperation. . . save those TOs in the second half, you might need them! honestly, i didn't mind going for it there at the end so much-- risky, but who really felt that our D was going to stop them from going 20-30 yards to kick another field goal and put it away, or just plain running the clock out? they were grinding it out and controlling the ball all day, i don't blame him for rolling the dice on our talented passing game rather than our ATROCIOUS run efense. . . and we did what we needed to to convert, if graham holds the ball. . .

however, i HATED the call before that, where we went for it on 4th in the red zone and tried to sneak cutler up the middle for a yard-and-a-half-- out of a 3-wide formation, nonetheless! we spend all that money on graham and henry, and are reduced to a stupid play that relies completely on the element of surpirse, and leaves us no other options if they're ready for it? i was screaming for a bootleg in that situation-- let cutler get out on the edge where he can run for it, or preferrably toss it to a wide-open fullback for an easy score. . .

last but not least-- in fact, IMO this one ranks just below the run efense-- was our "special" teams. . . i honestly want to start calling them "retarded teams," but that's an insult to legitimately mentally challenged people everywhere. . . how about (expletive) teams? seriously, it's same spit different day with these guys. . . i know o'brien can't be expected to come in and get it cleaned up all at once, but it's getting real hard to be patient when they continue to make mistakes that are very capable of costing us games. . . obviously the fumble by hixon was the most glaring screwup, but allowing MJD to bring a kick back to about the fifty hurt, and sauerbrun doesn't seem to have much in the way of placement skills-- he did drop one beauty last week, but watching him boom a tremedous punt right into the endzone seems to be more of the norm. . .


POSITIVES

we have a quarterback who can throw the football-- not just off of bootlegs when the play-action is working, but a guy who can stand tall in the pocket and make completions down the field even when the opposing defense has shut down the running game and we're in catch-up mode. . . a guy who can zing it through small windows when receivers aren't wide open. . . the INT at the end of the game didn't bother me so much, those will happen at the end of games when you're down and have no choice but to force it. . . for a QB making his eighth start, jay continues to impress me, and i think we really have found the new face of the franchise. . .

brandon marshall and elvis dumervil-- these guys pretty much speak for themselves!

although he did overrun one play today, nate webster is very active and productive for a SAM linebacker. . .

that last goal line stand was impressive. . .

i thought the pass protection was good today, for the most part-- even with henderson out, their D-line is no joke. . .

san diego lost and we retained first place in the division-- that may not last though, because we're going to have to be light years better than we were today to beat indy. . .



obviously, the good outweighed the bad today-- i do see plenty of positive signs, but right now i'm really afraid that our season is riding on whether we can find a way to tighten up the run efense some. . . i hate to simplify things like that, but when we only have the ball ten minutes or so in the first half, we're not going to give ourselves much of a chance to win ballgames-- when are we going to grab a lead and see henry wear down the opposing D in the 4th quarter, instead of cutler standing back in the shotgun trying to pull off a last-second win?

Chidoze
09-23-2007, 11:48 PM
dogfish, you hit everything on the head of the nail.

Not much you can add to that........High Five bro! :beer:

broncosfanscott
09-23-2007, 11:48 PM
I just have to say that I think this team has a long way to go IF we
think they can be a 10-6 playoff team.

Its not getting any easier with Indy and SD up next as well.

We will see IF this team has any character next week.

IND will test us for sure, so we will see where we stand.

Watchthemiddle
09-24-2007, 12:12 AM
hey, i'm not trying to gloss anything over, far from it-- just pointing out that it's nice having a place where we can discuss them without a bunch of moronic "fire shanahan" threads popping up. . .


so, let's discuss 'em then. . .


NEGATIVES

run efense-- really, what else needs to be said? we played plenty of eight-man fronts and STILL couldn't stop them. . . having lynch out didn't help, and having gold and burton in sure doesn't seem to help much-- i often get the feeling we're playing with nine or ten defenders out there. . .

i said in my breakdown that i was afraid of garrard getting loose and making big first downs, and he did just that-- i'd have expected us to be more aware of him as a runner, but several times he had wide open lanes that looked like the parting of the red sea. . .

everyone's human, but we made graham one of (if not the) highest paid TEs in league history-- it'd sure be nice to see him make that catch. . .

selvin young has the talent to be a weapon, but if he continues to fumble the ball like he did in college he's going to find himself a nice seat on the bench. . .

sometimes i feel like shanahan wastes timeouts challenging things we don't have much of a shot at winning-- i know he's got a pretty good success precentage, but today i thought that challenge looked like an act of desperation. . . save those TOs in the second half, you might need them! honestly, i didn't mind going for it there at the end so much-- risky, but who really felt that our D was going to stop them from going 20-30 yards to kick another field goal and put it away, or just plain running the clock out? they were grinding it out and controlling the ball all day, i don't blame him for rolling the dice on our talented passing game rather than our ATROCIOUS run efense. . . and we did what we needed to to convert, if graham holds the ball. . .

however, i HATED the call before that, where we went for it on 4th in the red zone and tried to sneak cutler up the middle for a yard-and-a-half-- out of a 3-wide formation, nonetheless! we spend all that money on graham and henry, and are reduced to a stupid play that relies completely on the element of surpirse, and leaves us no other options if they're ready for it? i was screaming for a bootleg in that situation-- let cutler get out on the edge where he can run for it, or preferrably toss it to a wide-open fullback for an easy score. . .

last but not least-- in fact, IMO this one ranks just below the run efense-- was our "special" teams. . . i honestly want to start calling them "retarded teams," but that's an insult to legitimately mentally challenged people everywhere. . . how about (expletive) teams? seriously, it's same spit different day with these guys. . . i know o'brien can't be expected to come in and get it cleaned up all at once, but it's getting real hard to be patient when they continue to make mistakes that are very capable of costing us games. . . obviously the fumble by hixon was the most glaring screwup, but allowing MJD to bring a kick back to about the fifty hurt, and sauerbrun doesn't seem to have much in the way of placement skills-- he did drop one beauty last week, but watching him boom a tremedous punt right into the endzone seems to be more of the norm. . .


POSITIVES

we have a quarterback who can throw the football-- not just off of bootlegs when the play-action is working, but a guy who can stand tall in the pocket and make completions down the field even when the opposing defense has shut down the running game and we're in catch-up mode. . . a guy who can zing it through small windows when receivers aren't wide open. . . the INT at the end of the game didn't bother me so much, those will happen at the end of games when you're down and have no choice but to force it. . . for a QB making his eighth start, jay continues to impress me, and i think we really have found the new face of the franchise. . .

brandon marshall and elvis dumervil-- these guys pretty much speak for themselves!

although he did overrun one play today, nate webster is very active and productive for a SAM linebacker. . .

that last goal line stand was impressive. . .

i thought the pass protection was good today, for the most part-- even with henderson out, their D-line is no joke. . .

san diego lost and we retained first place in the division-- that may not last though, because we're going to have to be light years better than we were today to beat indy. . .



obviously, the good outweighed the bad today-- i do see plenty of positive signs, but right now i'm really afraid that our season is riding on whether we can find a way to tighten up the run efense some. . . i hate to simplify things like that, but when we only have the ball ten minutes or so in the first half, we're not going to give ourselves much of a chance to win ballgames-- when are we going to grab a lead and see henry wear down the opposing D in the 4th quarter, instead of cutler standing back in the shotgun trying to pull off a last-second win?


Did he drop it...or was it a desperation catch? You can't blame Graham on that. When you only look his way twice in a game and expect him to catch a low thrown ball in traffic on a 4th down late...its hard to blame him.

That might be the case..but today I didn't feel it was. The challenges were very questionable but, we needed all the help we could get.

Champ is on ST.



I agree....they have played well.

My negatives would be similar but I feel like this lose falls more on the "high powered"....."leading offense" In the NFL.

Had we even moved the ball a little...instead of punting and going 3 and out when we did...or 4 and out...this would have been a different outcome.

You can't go 3 and out to start the game. Not with the weapons that we have.

BigBroncLove
09-24-2007, 12:23 AM
Good looking list of positives and negatives dogfish. I agree with everyone, and I would like to add a few things to talk over. Now, you may have to work with me here, because I didn;t see the game. I can only go off of what I heard the announcers say on the radio, which isn't an extremely good way to analyze a game. I'll be looking forward to an NFL replay on NFLN hopefully, but until then I'll have to break it down by what I heard, not saw. So you may have to correct me...

Negative stuff.....

Pass protection sounded to be pretty poor today. It sounds like sometimes Cutler got time, but nto nearly the protection Garrard saw against the Broncos. It sounded as if Cutler was rushed often, and had to extend plays with his legs. I wish the Broncos would have done a better job of protecting him. I can;t imagine what it would have looked like with John Henderson in there :ahhhhh:

We didn't run the ball that muc hat all through the first half. I know we went for quite a few three and outs, and that the Broncos were probably attacking weaknesses. After all, that front seven is where they have their best personel, and like the Pats against SD, attack the lesser secondary and things will open up, or at least that's what I think was the gameplan. The problem is, the Broncos can't protect Cutler extremely well from the looks of things thus far. I believe I heard the announcer say that the Broncos ran it only 4 times with a few minutes left in the first half. That's a terrible ratio, and for a team that has made it's money on the run, and spending the dough on Henry, we should have tried to establish the run earlier.

I cannot agree with you more about the run D. It is terrible. 12 minute drive for the jags? It sounded like the Jags had possesion of the ball around the time the wheel was discovered. The run D is causing serious problems for the whole D. Without the baility to stop the run, we are stacking the box, leaving Bailey and Bly mroe prone to getting burned one-on-one, and making our D very predictable. Predictability kills in this league, which is why I felt Coyers D last year crumbled through the season. The Broncos need to find some answers that allow the D to be more flexable and give different looks then a zero cover line jam.

Positives

Stokley continues to impress me. The man can catch, the injury doesn;t seem to be effecting him, and he's gotten a good repoir with Cutler early on.

The DE's are doing thier job in Bates system it sounds like. Doom as already mentioned is making such big leaps in his game, it's amazing. I never thought he would be this good this quickly. Dream was right, let's get this kid i na big contract quick.

Sapp still seems to be doing a great job at FB. He catches, blocks, and runs well.

Everything else you said was spot on DF. Lets hope next week some of the holes are shored up and we bring our A game to Indy.

omac
09-24-2007, 02:45 AM
Great list of possitives and negatives dogfish! :salute:

Dean
09-24-2007, 06:51 AM
You can gloss it over but you can't hide the fact that until our run defense is fixed we will look like a mediocre team caught in a bad game. Another game of yielding close to 200 yards, again. Why not force a team to pass rather than inviting them to run the ball on us? We have great cover corners why not use them and bring more help into the box? Why not vary the alignment of our D-ends? Why not stunt into the off tackle gap? :confused:

To do the same thing again, again, and again and expect different results does not sound to be a sane approach to me. :ahhhhh: We have some personnel problems so attempt to give them some available aid.

Tned
09-24-2007, 06:51 AM
so, let's discuss 'em then. . .


NEGATIVES

POSITIVES

i thought the pass protection was good today, for the most part-- even with henderson out, their D-line is no joke. . .


Dogfish, I think you did a good job of laying out the postives and negatives. There is one place that right now I see dfferently, and that is pass protection.

My initial 'impression' watching the game was that Cutler spent a great deal of time scrambling to make throws. Running to his right away from a pass rush and passing back left across his body, etc.

This morning my DVR will record the Broncos Shortcuts, which for those not familiar with DirecTV, is every offensive and defensive play shown in less than 30 minutes. They cut out all commercials and commentary, and dead time between when a play ends and the next starts. It's a good way to quickly take a second look at the game, and in this case, our pass protection.

GEM
09-24-2007, 10:09 AM
BYO, TOP, Dog...I like all of ya's...but its not all peaches and cream.

Its easy to say we are okay, there is always next week...its a tough loss...blah blah blah...but lets talk reality here.

I want to talk about the lose. I want to talk about the Positives and Negatives...

Not just gloss over them.

There is nothing to gloss over, but keep in mind:

A team doesn't start a new QB, RB, TE, lose a key WR, a key Olineman, the heart of their D, move a guy over to MLB, place a backup lb in a starters position, completely revamp a DL with rookies and new guys, fire their Dline coach, DC and ST coach without a few growing pains.

I think a lot of people have put their expectations WAY too high. We're rebuilding. We're showing some real strengths and real weaknesses......but keep your chins up Broncos fans, we could be cheering for constant sucktitude of the Oakland Raiders. :D

Joel
09-24-2007, 10:43 AM
I'm just waiting for someone to admit the new D is Not There Yet, and that it's not likely to be until/unless we get a real clogger playing what has always been a clogging position under Bates (DT). I'm not as worried about the offense because I see hope for the short term future; I think the linemen have the talent, as well as the "skill" players behind them to produce once they gel, but with our biggest DT at 315 and all of them finesse guys rather than NTs I don't see a light at the end of that tunnel any time soon. Yes, I'm aware we have Sam Adams, but I also know he's not young, it's his first year in Mile High air and he's not playing every down as a result. They may have been malcontents, but I felt a lot better about having big ol' Warren and Kennedy rotating to keep Adams fresh than I do about McKinley and Thomas. I still don't really get what happened; fine, Warren and Kennedy wanted to pass rush instead of clog and Bates wants cloggers--where do McKinley and Thomas fit into that...?

I pretty much could've told you going into this if Burton or Gordon was starting for us come the regular season it was gonna be a long one. Until/unless we can stop the run our stellar CBs and (maybe) stellar DEs won't be able to do much to a passing game no one will need. We need to stop the run fast, or we could very easily be at the other end of the spectrum from the great D, no offense Raiders. More realistically, we might get a wildcard, but we'll be one and done (and drafting accordingly) because even the Colts had to stop the run once the playoffs started or they'd never have gotten past LJ in the first round, much less the Ravens.

That's really the same ol' same ol' big negative; yes, it sucks that Young fumbled, and that !$@#$ Hixon fumbled the @!$# second half kick, but it cost us all of 3 points in a 9 point loss. Until the pick Cutler was having a better day than Garrard, so I can't fault our pass rush or our offensive line there, and expect the Jags to play well against the run. We just need to do the same; it's great that we gave up less passing yards than running (yea!) but it's awful we gave up 186 rushing yards (boo!)

Tned
09-24-2007, 10:59 AM
There is nothing to gloss over, but keep in mind:

A team doesn't start a new QB, RB, TE, lose a key WR, a key Olineman, the heart of their D, move a guy over to MLB, place a backup lb in a starters position, completely revamp a DL with rookies and new guys, fire their Dline coach, DC and ST coach without a few growing pains.

I think a lot of people have put their expectations WAY too high. We're rebuilding. We're showing some real strengths and real weaknesses......but keep your chins up Broncos fans, we could be cheering for constant sucktitude of the Oakland Raiders. :D

This is a very good post. This is another "Shanny on-the-fly rebuilding" and therefore there will be some growing pains. Prior to the first game, I said I thought it would take about half the year for this offense to start firing on all cylinders, and that probably is going to be the case.

GEM
09-24-2007, 11:10 AM
This is a very good post. This is another "Shanny on-the-fly rebuilding" and therefore there will be some growing pains. Prior to the first game, I said I thought it would take about half the year for this offense to start firing on all cylinders, and that probably is going to be the case.

Yep, that's what I have stated as well. When this team does start firing on all cylinders....ooooweeeee are we in for a good time or what? :D

I don't think peoplen should be so down on our guys because some of us had our expectations so high. Sure, we all would have loved for this team to come out of the gate going full speed on all sides of the ball. Is that a realistic expectation. Not at all.

Be patient and ye shall receive. Keep that in mind Broncos fans.

I was so upset last night on the other board. I was more upset with the fans than I was with the loss. I will keep in mind to make my after game stop here as to save my own sanity. The same one post fan cursing out every guy on the team during a loss will be the same guy next week preaching how good they are the next week if we beat the Colts. Pretty sickening.

sanluis
09-24-2007, 11:18 AM
Yep, that's what I have stated as well. When this team does start firing on all cylinders....ooooweeeee are we in for a good time or what? :D

I don't think peoplen should be so down on our guys because some of us had our expectations so high. Sure, we all would have loved for this team to come out of the gate going full speed on all sides of the ball. Is that a realistic expectation. Not at all.

Be patient and ye shall receive. Keep that in mind Broncos fans.

I was so upset last night on the other board. I was more upset with the fans than I was with the loss. I will keep in mind to make my after game stop here as to save my own sanity. The same one post fan cursing out every guy on the team during a loss will be the same guy next week preaching how good they are the next week if we beat the Colts. Pretty sickening.

LOL! I have not even gone to the Charger mb due to all the doom and gloom threads. I get enough of that stuff from you guys! :D

So are you going to win our Fantasy match tonight? I think you only need a few more points. :lol:

GEM
09-24-2007, 11:24 AM
LOL! I have not even gone to the Charger mb due to all the doom and gloom threads. I get enough of that stuff from you guys!

So are you going to win our Fantasy match tonight? I think you only need a few more points.


Ya know what.....when I have a sucky week, I go all out! My team loses, and I lost 3 out of 4 league matchups.....let's hope this isn't in any way pointing to how the rest of my week is going to be!!!:mad: :laugh: Larry friggen Johnson is absolutely killing me. I'm about to sell his arse on Ebay....quite frankly though, I probably couldn't give him away on Craigslist. :ahhhhh:

Mike
09-24-2007, 11:30 AM
Yep, that's what I have stated as well. When this team does start firing on all cylinders....ooooweeeee are we in for a good time or what? :D

I don't think peoplen should be so down on our guys because some of us had our expectations so high. Sure, we all would have loved for this team to come out of the gate going full speed on all sides of the ball. Is that a realistic expectation. Not at all.

Be patient and ye shall receive. Keep that in mind Broncos fans.

I was so upset last night on the other board. I was more upset with the fans than I was with the loss. I will keep in mind to make my after game stop here as to save my own sanity. The same one post fan cursing out every guy on the team during a loss will be the same guy next week preaching how good they are the next week if we beat the Colts. Pretty sickening.

Ah, yes, I almost forgot what the other site was like after a loss.

I have no problem with fans being realistic about their team. That doesn't make them any less of a fan in my book. But the fire and cut threads are about as annoying as it gets.

But for old times sake...Cut Gold...fire Hixon...we need new D AND O coordinators. Gut the team...sell em to the Cheeps. :defense::laugh:

sanluis
09-24-2007, 11:32 AM
Ya know what.....when I have a sucky week, I go all out! My team loses, and I lost 3 out of 4 league matchups.....let's hope this isn't in any way pointing to how the rest of my week is going to be!!!:mad: :laugh: Larry friggen Johnson is absolutely killing me. I'm about to sell his arse on Ebay....quite frankly though, I probably couldn't give him away on Craigslist. :ahhhhh:


I have the ultra bust Marice - Jones- Drew is poo and only good for negative points on my bench. Maybe we could make a trade? LOL!

Back on topic the sky really is falling. The Raiders won and we both lost. The apocalypse must soon be coming! :D

GEM
09-24-2007, 11:44 AM
I have the ultra bust Marice - Jones- Drew is poo and only good for negative points on my bench. Maybe we could make a trade? LOL!

Back on topic the sky really is falling. The Raiders won and we both lost. The apocalypse must soon be coming! :D

Not to mention the Chiefs won. :eek:

Kmart miraculously made an appearance yesterday, telling all of us how the Broncos suck and the Chiefs defense is awesome. :laugh: I should have asked him what he was smoking.

Tned
09-24-2007, 12:43 PM
Yep, that's what I have stated as well. When this team does start firing on all cylinders....ooooweeeee are we in for a good time or what? :D

I don't think peoplen should be so down on our guys because some of us had our expectations so high. Sure, we all would have loved for this team to come out of the gate going full speed on all sides of the ball. Is that a realistic expectation. Not at all.

Be patient and ye shall receive. Keep that in mind Broncos fans.

I was so upset last night on the other board. I was more upset with the fans than I was with the loss. I will keep in mind to make my after game stop here as to save my own sanity. The same one post fan cursing out every guy on the team during a loss will be the same guy next week preaching how good they are the next week if we beat the Colts. Pretty sickening.

Also, people should remember that when the Broncos run defense was ranked high a few years back ('04 and '05 I believe), it wasn't because the run defense was good, it was because the offense was leading the NFL in outscoring the opponent in the first quarter, and therefore were forcing teams to throw early and often. I think it was '05 when the Broncos opponents were averaging around 40 pass attempts a game, and that was well beyond any other team.

If the offense starts putting points on the board, that will force teams to pass, and then Bly and Bailey will become bigger factors, where now Bailey's biggest contribution is tackling the RBs that blow by our line and LBs.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-24-2007, 12:47 PM
With half of your team being new, you'd expect growing pains. I said that since before camp. People in Denver expect too much.

Tned
09-24-2007, 12:48 PM
With half of your team being new, you'd expect growing pains. I said that since before camp. People in Denver expect too much.

Always have, always will. That comes from having one of the winningest teams in the NFL over the last 20+ years.

Skinny
09-24-2007, 12:49 PM
Also, people should remember that when the Broncos run defense was ranked high a few years back ('04 and '05 I believe), it wasn't because the run defense was good, it was because the offense was leading the NFL in outscoring the opponent in the first quarter, and therefore were forcing teams to throw early and often. I think it was '05 when the Broncos opponents were averaging around 40 pass attempts a game, and that was well beyond any other team.

If the offense starts putting points on the board, that will force teams to pass, and then Bly and Bailey will become bigger factors, where now Bailey's biggest contribution is tackling the RBs that blow by our line and LBs.Great point!

:low five:

The Broncos were on the other end of the stick yesterday . . . .

dogfish
09-24-2007, 12:56 PM
You can gloss it over but you can't hide the fact that until our run defense is fixed we will look like a mediocre team caught in a bad game. Another game of yielding close to 200 yards, again. Why not force a team to pass rather than inviting them to run the ball on us? We have great cover corners why not use them and bring more help into the box? Why not vary the alignment of our D-ends? Why not stunt into the off tackle gap? :confused:

To do the same thing again, again, and again and expect different results does not sound to be a sane approach to me. :ahhhhh: We have some personnel problems so attempt to give them some available aid.

good post dean, your insights are always appreciated. . . . we were told coming in that defending the C gaps against the run has been one of the weaknesses of bates' defenses in previous stops, but his results were always solid (and usually a lot better than solid). . . both he and shanahan have made comments indicating that the run D will get better as guys learn their assignments. . . do you have an opinion as to whether we are suffering more from the DTs failing to hold their ground, or the linebackers failing to fill their gaps? if it's the latter, at least we can hope for some improvement as they continue to grow in the system (especially DJ), but if it's the former i think you make a very good point that maybe we should try some new things to help them out. . . as a new coach coming in, how long do you wait before admitting that the personnel may not be adequate to execute the scheme, and start to plan around the strengths of the guys you have? hopefully he doesn't wait too much longer if we keep getting blown up like we have been. . . :ahhhhh:

BroncoManiac_69
09-24-2007, 01:56 PM
okay, obviously it's not-- i just wanted to start a thread to say how nice it is to come on the board and not have to deal with all that junk. . . that was a bitter, ugly loss, and i doubt any of us are feeling particularly good right now, but i love not having to listen to an inordinant amount of whining about a team that's still in first place. . . doesn't mean we shouldn't be unhappy about some of the things that went down today, but i want to commend everyone's posting discipline-- well done peeps!

I have been saying all along in the off season that we are going to struggle for awhile as chemistry develops amongst all the new faces. Not to mention a young QB that will suffer from growing pains.

People expect immediate results and fail to accept otherwise. Without going into all of the specifics once again, this team has a lot of progress to make and it could be a couple of years before we are legitimate contenders.

I wonder who on the Bronco roster will get thrown under the bus after NEXT week as I believe we will get beat pretty badly by the World Champs in their house.

It is going to send some people into a total frenzy. LOL.

Of course, if we actually pull off a win in Indy, then we will Super Bowl bound all over again. :eek:

Lonestar
09-24-2007, 03:47 PM
I did not get to see the game yesterday so much of this is from what I have been able to glean from those who did.

When I predicted a 7-9 season winning only one game in the first six, folks called me crazy of course that was all of the kiddies on BM.

I thought we would lose all but the OAK up front.

I began to believe they were better than they were and came off my loss to JAX this week to predict a 4-9 win.

We do not have a chance against INDY at IND, so mark that one down as a loss.

That makes us 2-2 going into a home game against SAN.

SAN loss
PIT loss
Green bay was a win but that is looking shaky as we speak. MAYBE
@ DET that was a win also but I'm alos not so sure right now. MAYBE
@KC LOSS
TEN at home Maybe
@CHI LOSS
@OAK LOSS
KC at home win in a close one
@HOU was a win not so sure right now. MAYBE
@SAN BIG LOSS.
MIN in Mile high. maybe

SO as it looks right now 3-8 and 5 maybes unless someone finds out a way to score 40+ points a game and how to shut down mediocre running backs.

Maybe we can go 3-13 and get a chance at real BLUE chip DT, in the top five picks.

BroncoManiac_69
09-24-2007, 04:13 PM
I did not get to see the game yesterday so much of this is from what I have been able to glean from those who did.

When I predicted a 7-9 season winning only one game in the first six, folks called me crazy of course that was all of the kiddies on BM.

I thought we would lose all but the OAK up front.

I began to believe they were better than they were and came off my loss to JAX this week to predict a 4-9 win.

We do not have a chance against INDY at IND, so mark that one down as a loss.

That makes us 2-2 going into a home game against SAN.

SAN loss
PIT loss
Green bay was a win but that is looking shaky as we speak. MAYBE
@ DET that was a win also but I'm alos not so sure right now. MAYBE
@KC LOSS
TEN at home Maybe
@CHI LOSS
@OAK LOSS
KC at home win in a close one
@HOU was a win not so sure right now. MAYBE
@SAN BIG LOSS.
MIN in Mile high. maybe

SO as it looks right now 3-8 and 5 maybes unless someone finds out a way to score 40+ points a game and how to shut down mediocre running backs.

Maybe we can go 3-13 and get a chance at real BLUE chip DT, in the top five picks.

Although I certainly hope to do better than your predictions, I am in agreement with you as the schedule does look tougher than some may admit.

After yesterday, we are now 2-5 in the last 7 home games. That isn't what Denver fans are used to and this season could test the patience of some of the home crowd folk.

NameUsedBefore
09-24-2007, 04:15 PM
^ Better clear "Watching Broncos on Sunday" off your calendar, then.

Lonestar
09-24-2007, 04:57 PM
^ Better clear "Watching Broncos on Sunday" off your calendar, then.

You see I have been watching them since 1960 missed very few games until 1979 when I moved out of state forever.

Still have seen more than 50% since then on TV.

While some are fair weather fans and even if the lose, I for one will watch them if I can.

I can remember many a year that they were worse than 3-13 or so many years where 3 wins was a moral victory.


I know that this group of players are one maybe two players away from big time wins. Another Sam Adams type NOW and another for when he retires.

Calibroncogrl47
09-24-2007, 06:27 PM
You know, this is a relatively nice atmosphere in here, isn't it? :smile:

-----

It sure is! So much more positive! :D and at least if someone has a comment about the teams needed improvement..it does not start with something like:

Im so ashamed to be a broncos fan:rolleyes:

Tned
09-24-2007, 07:11 PM
I did not get to see the game yesterday so much of this is from what I have been able to glean from those who did.

When I predicted a 7-9 season winning only one game in the first six, folks called me crazy of course that was all of the kiddies on BM.

I thought we would lose all but the OAK up front.

I began to believe they were better than they were and came off my loss to JAX this week to predict a 4-9 win.

We do not have a chance against INDY at IND, so mark that one down as a loss.

That makes us 2-2 going into a home game against SAN.

SAN loss
PIT loss
Green bay was a win but that is looking shaky as we speak. MAYBE
@ DET that was a win also but I'm alos not so sure right now. MAYBE
@KC LOSS
TEN at home Maybe
@CHI LOSS
@OAK LOSS
KC at home win in a close one
@HOU was a win not so sure right now. MAYBE
@SAN BIG LOSS.
MIN in Mile high. maybe

SO as it looks right now 3-8 and 5 maybes unless someone finds out a way to score 40+ points a game and how to shut down mediocre running backs.

Maybe we can go 3-13 and get a chance at real BLUE chip DT, in the top five picks.

I don't agree with your predictions:

Indy loss (I don't agree that it is a given, but it will be hard to win)
SAN Win
PIT loss
Green bay Win (If Favre stays in the shotgun, our secondary will make him pay)
@ DET Win (relies on the pass and has no defense, secondary will make Kitna pay)
@KC Toss up (It's not December, and KC isn't good enough to beat us, but Arrowhead is not Bronco friendly)
TEN Win (much tougher than Oak and KC, but at home we win)
@CHI loss (tough D could make Cutler pay after shutting down run game, but they have no QB, so this isn't even a sure loss)
@OAK Win (they are a lousy team, home or road)
KC Win
@HOU Toss Up
@SAN Loss (I think SD will have worked out their issues, at home goes to SD. The only unkown is will our offense have hit its stride, which I think it will be then, so a win wouldn't shock me).
MIN Win (if needed and starters play)

So, I see it as 9-5 with two toss ups. Split those, and it is 10-6. If the offense gels sooner rather than later, then both toss ups go our way, and Chi becomes a win, and we are 12-4.

TXBRONC
09-24-2007, 07:29 PM
I don't agree with your predictions:

Indy loss (I don't agree that it is a given, but it will be hard to win)
SAN Win
PIT loss
Green bay Win (If Favre stays in the shotgun, our secondary will make him pay)
@ DET Win (relies on the pass and has no defense, secondary will make Kitna pay)
@KC Toss up (It's not December, and KC isn't good enough to beat us, but Arrowhead is not Bronco friendly)
TEN Win (much tougher than Oak and KC, but at home we win)
@CHI loss (tough D could make Cutler pay after shutting down run game, but they have no QB, so this isn't even a sure loss)
@OAK Win (they are a lousy team, home or road)
KC Win
@HOU Toss Up
@SAN Loss (I think SD will have worked out their issues, at home goes to SD. The only unkown is will our offense have hit its stride, which I think it will be then, so a win wouldn't shock me).
MIN Win (if needed and starters play)

So, I see it as 9-5 with two toss ups. Split those, and it is 10-6. If the offense gels sooner rather than later, then both toss ups go our way, and Chi becomes a win, and we are 12-4.

No kidding, games aren't played on paper they are played on the field.

Watchthemiddle
09-24-2007, 07:35 PM
I don't agree with your predictions:

Indy loss (I don't agree that it is a given, but it will be hard to win)
SAN Win
PIT loss
Green bay Win (If Favre stays in the shotgun, our secondary will make him pay)
@ DET Win (relies on the pass and has no defense, secondary will make Kitna pay)
@KC Toss up (It's not December, and KC isn't good enough to beat us, but Arrowhead is not Bronco friendly)
TEN Win (much tougher than Oak and KC, but at home we win)
@CHI loss (tough D could make Cutler pay after shutting down run game, but they have no QB, so this isn't even a sure loss)
@OAK Win (they are a lousy team, home or road)
KC Win
@HOU Toss Up
@SAN Loss (I think SD will have worked out their issues, at home goes to SD. The only unkown is will our offense have hit its stride, which I think it will be then, so a win wouldn't shock me).
MIN Win (if needed and starters play)

So, I see it as 9-5 with two toss ups. Split those, and it is 10-6. If the offense gels sooner rather than later, then both toss ups go our way, and Chi becomes a win, and we are 12-4.

That might be all we need or anyone needs to win the West this year. Maybe this will be the year we start clicking on all cylinders late in the season instead of early. :beer:

Tned
09-24-2007, 07:37 PM
That might be all we need or anyone needs to win the West this year. Maybe this will be the year we start clicking on all cylinders late in the season instead of early. :beer:

Coulld be. We have gone something ike 5 or 6 years of getting off to those 5-1 or so starts and faltering in the middle and then backing into the playoffs (in the years we made it to the playoffs). This year, we have more talent and potential on offense then we have had since the Elway/TD era, but it will take time for them to transition from potential to point scorers.

Watchthemiddle
09-24-2007, 07:51 PM
Coulld be. We have gone something ike 5 or 6 years of getting off to those 5-1 or so starts and faltering in the middle and then backing into the playoffs (in the years we made it to the playoffs). This year, we have more talent and potential on offense then we have had since the Elway/TD era, but it will take time for them to transition from potential to point scorers.

I could see this season as being one like the Titans had last year. They really clicked under Young late and just about made the playoffs. I just see some rough games, a rough start like we have had on offense, defense, adn ST and then everyone click and put it all together.

broncosfanscott
09-24-2007, 08:16 PM
It sure is! So much more positive! :D and at least if someone has a comment about the teams needed improvement..it does not start with something like:

Im so ashamed to be a broncos fan:rolleyes:

No kidding. We have had bad seasons and bad games like everybody else and in no way am i ever ashamed.

I am proud to be a Broncos fan. :salute:

Lonestar
09-24-2007, 08:27 PM
Coulld be. We have gone something ike 5 or 6 years of getting off to those 5-1 or so starts and faltering in the middle and then backing into the playoffs (in the years we made it to the playoffs). This year, we have more talent and potential on offense then we have had since the Elway/TD era, but it will take time for them to transition from potential to point scorers.


As I said in one of my posts it is gonna take scoring 30+ points every game to even be competitive.

If we are unable to stop mediocre RB's we have seen so far when the good ones show up they are gonna get well on us.

We have a lot of talent on Offense no doubt and they just might start clicking next week but I think it will be much deeper in the season. Even if they do other offenses already know how to keep our starting Offense off the field. Run RUn RUN. Just like everyone did on KC and SAN before SAN got a D.

I think Bates will get his troops going sometime this year or perhaps the DL is so dependent on Mr fat guy that we will never recover this year.

BroncoManiac_69
09-25-2007, 09:35 AM
It sure is! So much more positive! :D and at least if someone has a comment about the teams needed improvement..it does not start with something like:

Im so ashamed to be a broncos fan:rolleyes:

It is refreshing to be able to speak out truthfully about our opinions and feelings over here without some punk or homer jumping our case saying we have no faith.

The Broncos will always and forever be :first: in my book no matter what happens. This is the new generation Broncos on the field this season and it will be exciting to see them grow and develop together over the next several seasons. However, I just don't see us winning the Super Bowl this year. I suppose in some eyes over on BM I would be considered a comunist. :laugh:

Mike
09-25-2007, 09:58 AM
I don't agree with your predictions:

Indy loss (I don't agree that it is a given, but it will be hard to win)
SAN Win
PIT loss
Green bay Win (If Favre stays in the shotgun, our secondary will make him pay)
@ DET Win (relies on the pass and has no defense, secondary will make Kitna pay)
@KC Toss up (It's not December, and KC isn't good enough to beat us, but Arrowhead is not Bronco friendly)
TEN Win (much tougher than Oak and KC, but at home we win)
@CHI loss (tough D could make Cutler pay after shutting down run game, but they have no QB, so this isn't even a sure loss)
@OAK Win (they are a lousy team, home or road)
KC Win
@HOU Toss Up
@SAN Loss (I think SD will have worked out their issues, at home goes to SD. The only unkown is will our offense have hit its stride, which I think it will be then, so a win wouldn't shock me).
MIN Win (if needed and starters play)

So, I see it as 9-5 with two toss ups. Split those, and it is 10-6. If the offense gels sooner rather than later, then both toss ups go our way, and Chi becomes a win, and we are 12-4.

So the main thing that I have been looking at is matchups. I do not like the matchups Denver faces. In particular...teams with good RBs, good TEs, and mobile QBs. Going by what we have seen so far this year, Denver does not match up well with those type teams.

Of course, things will change as the season progresses. The team will grow, hopefully they will develope chemistry. But, as of now, I don't see the defense shoring up against the run or covering better in the flats and on drag plays. So unless the offense starts putting up big numbers on the scoreboard...it could be a long season in Denver.

@Indy - Loss: No explanation needed.
SD - Loss: Gates will run laps around Gold...Tomlinson will get on track against Denver, if Turner is smart they will also use him as a receiver in the flats...their defense is good enough to slow Denver's offense.
Pitt - Loss: Willie Parker will run all over our defense (see a pattern?) and they are the type of smash mouth team that Denver struggles against.
GB - Toss up. Denver could win this game.
@Det - Win. It will be a shootout...but Denver's defense will make more stops than Detroits.
@KC - Toss up. I lean towards KC though because it is in KC. I also think LJ will smash the defense in the mouth.
Ten - Loss. Vince Young will do what Gerrard did 20X over.
@Chi - Toss up. They are not as good as expected. Hopefully, their offense continues to give games away.
@Oak - Win.
KC - Toss up. Usually a split with home teams winning...LJ still makes me nervous.
@Hou - Loss. This could be a toss-up, the matchups are even, but I think ST will cost us this game. I also think Kubes will call a better game than Dinger. IMO, Denver misses Kubes more than most realize.
@SD - Loss
Min - Win

3 wins, 6 losses, 4 toss-up games. Even if Denver splits the toss-ups, they will still be middle of the road.

topscribe
09-25-2007, 10:02 AM
So the main thing that I have been looking at is matchups. I do not like the matchups Denver faces. In particular...teams with good RBs, good TEs, and mobile QBs. Going by what we have seen so far this year, Denver does not match up well with those type teams.

Of course, things will change as the season progresses. The team will grow, hopefully they will develope chemistry. But, as of now, I don't see the defense shoring up against the run or covering better in the flats and on drag plays. So unless the offense starts putting up big numbers on the scoreboard...it could be a long season in Denver.

@Indy - Loss: No explanation needed.
SD - Loss: Gates will run laps around Gold...Tomlinson will get on track against Denver, if Turner is smart they will also use him as a receiver in the flats...their defense is good enough to slow Denver's offense.
Pitt - Loss: Willie Parker will run all over our defense (see a pattern?) and they are the type of smash mouth team that Denver struggles against.
GB - Toss up. Denver could win this game.
@Det - Win. It will be a shootout...but Denver's defense will make more stops than Detroits.
@KC - Toss up. I lean towards KC though because it is in KC. I also think LJ will smash the defense in the mouth.
Ten - Loss. Vince Young will do what Gerrard did 20X over.
@Chi - Toss up. They are not as good as expected. Hopefully, their offense continues to give games away.
@Oak - Win.
KC - Toss up. Usually a split with home teams winning...LJ still makes me nervous.
@Hou - Loss. This could be a toss-up, the matchups are even, but I think ST will cost us this game. I also think Kubes will call a better game than Dinger. IMO, Denver misses Kubes more than most realize.
@SD - Loss
Min - Win

3 wins, 6 losses, 4 toss-up games. Even if Denver splits the toss-ups, they will still be middle of the road.
Well, that should put us in the position to get one heck of a DT in the draft. *sigh*

-----

Mike
09-25-2007, 10:15 AM
Well, that should put us in the position to get one heck of a DT in the draft. *sigh*

-----

But that is why they play the game. Denver could pull it together and start clicking. I really hope they do and make me eat my words. I hope it starts this week...maybe the Colts will be lulled by Denver's performance against JAX. Maybe it is a trap game for them. :laugh:

topscribe
09-25-2007, 10:27 AM
But that is why they play the game. Denver could pull it together and start clicking. I really hope they do and make me eat my words. I hope it starts this week...maybe the Colts will be lulled by Denver's performance against JAX. Maybe it is a trap game for them. :laugh:

Well, I do believe we match up better against Indy than we do Jax, that is, if
everyone is healthy, including Lynch and Foxy. If our entire secondary isn't
healthy, however, I fear Manning will simply take advantage of our dropoff in
talent after Bailey and Bly. He has had field days on our third CBs for years
now.

But we do have more trouble wilth the smash-mouth teams because our boys
don't seem to be able to tough it up for them. However, if for some strange
reason we can stop Addai, and our ends can put a rush on Manning, then we
may have a chance.

-----

Lonestar
09-25-2007, 10:52 AM
So the main thing that I have been looking at is matchups. I do not like the matchups Denver faces. In particular...teams with good RBs, good TEs, and mobile QBs. Going by what we have seen so far this year, Denver does not match up well with those type teams.

Of course, things will change as the season progresses. The team will grow, hopefully they will develope chemistry. But, as of now, I don't see the defense shoring up against the run or covering better in the flats and on drag plays. So unless the offense starts putting up big numbers on the scoreboard...it could be a long season in Denver.

@Indy - Loss: No explanation needed.
SD - Loss: Gates will run laps around Gold...Tomlinson will get on track against Denver, if Turner is smart they will also use him as a receiver in the flats...their defense is good enough to slow Denver's offense.
Pitt - Loss: Willie Parker will run all over our defense (see a pattern?) and they are the type of smash mouth team that Denver struggles against.
GB - Toss up. Denver could win this game.
@Det - Win. It will be a shootout...but Denver's defense will make more stops than Detroits.
@KC - Toss up. I lean towards KC though because it is in KC. I also think LJ will smash the defense in the mouth.
Ten - Loss. Vince Young will do what Gerrard did 20X over.
@Chi - Toss up. They are not as good as expected. Hopefully, their offense continues to give games away.
@Oak - Win.
KC - Toss up. Usually a split with home teams winning...LJ still makes me nervous.
@Hou - Loss. This could be a toss-up, the matchups are even, but I think ST will cost us this game. I also think Kubes will call a better game than Dinger. IMO, Denver misses Kubes more than most realize.
@SD - Loss
Min - Win

3 wins, 6 losses, 4 toss-up games. Even if Denver splits the toss-ups, they will still be middle of the road.


I think your being realistic and alot of fans are not being so. While I too hope we are wrong I suspect we are closer to the truth than the others.

Personally I'd rather tank the season and be able to get a great pick and come back like gang busters next year and those years thereafter.

There is a real great base of future players here and once they get the experience, they need it should be next to impossible to stop.

I really believe that we are really ONE great DT away from three or more SB victories in a row.

Bates defense is so dependent on cloggers in the middle and as we speak we have ONE in Adams who is only a part timer. Perhaps Thomas is the other one for the future but that means that we have to pickup another one to replace Adams.

Again I hope I'm wrong on my predictions on wins and losses, but I'm not seeing anything to change my mind on the near horizon.

Lonestar
09-25-2007, 11:00 AM
Well, I do believe we match up better against Indy than we do Jax, that is, if
everyone is healthy, including Lynch and Foxy. If our entire secondary isn't
healthy, however, I fear Manning will simply take advantage of our dropoff in
talent after Bailey and Bly. He has had field days on our third CBs for years
now.

But we do have more trouble wilth the smash-mouth teams because our boys
don't seem to be able to tough it up for them. However, if for some strange
reason we can stop Addai, and our ends can put a rush on Manning, then we
may have a chance.

-----

IF we can slow down addai, we have a chance.We can make Manning a one dimensional offense.

And our corners are gonna do a great job IF we get a pass rush.

Top I do not see it in INDY. The dome is a great 12th MAN.

Home field advantage.

I also heard this last night on NFL Replay I think it was.

A Schefter commented that DEN has lost 5 of the last 7 games we have played. of the two we won one was the OAK last second head game on janikowski Mikey pulled and the CINCY game where they missed a gimme FG to win with a seconds on the clock.


He said home field advantage @ MILE HIGH used to be a lock, but is no more.

I think I have to agree.

omac
09-25-2007, 01:36 PM
Personally I'd rather tank the season and be able to get a great pick and come back like gang busters next year and those years thereafter.

Tank the season? It's one thing to play your best and lose, but to intentionally underperform in order to get high draft picks? San Diego got a lot of high first rounders because they used to lose a lot, but I never thought they intentionally lost. The draft was meant as an equalizer to help struggling teams get better. I have no respect for any team that tanks a season in order to get a high draft pick, and I hope Denver never resorts to that.

Lonestar
09-25-2007, 01:47 PM
Tank the season? It's one thing to play your best and lose, but to intentionally underperform in order to get high draft picks? San Diego got a lot of high first rounders because they used to lose a lot, but I never thought they intentionally lost. The draft was meant as an equalizer to help struggling teams get better. I have no respect for any team that tanks a season in order to get a high draft pick, and I hope Denver never resorts to that.

I should have used a better term than tank the season.

It just looks like that is the direction they are going, playing to the best of their ability on most cylinders, but with one part of the team failing. Perhaps a different one every week.

But it all boils down to stopping the run so far that has not happened. We do not have the horses on the DL to do that as we speak.

Tned
09-25-2007, 01:48 PM
I think your being realistic and alot of fans are not being so. While I too hope we are wrong I suspect we are closer to the truth than the others.
.

Well, the good news is the forum has a search funciton, so the side (overly optomistic, overly pessimistic or Tned ;)) that was right will be able to revisit this topic in 3 1/2 months. :D

Mike
09-25-2007, 01:52 PM
Well, the good news is the forum has a search funciton, so the side (overly optomistic, overly pessimistic or Tned ;)) that was right will be able to revisit this topic in 3 1/2 months. :D

I very much hope that you can throw it back in my face. :D

Tned
09-25-2007, 01:54 PM
I very much hope that you can throw it back in my face. :D

I will probably pass, but I very much expect to be able to. I have watched enough Broncos football over the years to generally know a bad team from a rough patch. I don't believe this is a bad team. It takes a BAD team to go 3-13 or 5-11.

I see .500 as the worst, even though we have a very tough schedule, and a playoff berth is very realitic, IMO.

Mike
09-25-2007, 02:04 PM
I will probably pass, but I very much expect to be able to. I have watched enough Broncos football over the years to generally know a bad team from a rough patch. I don't believe this is a bad team. It takes a BAD team to go 3-13 or 5-11.

I see .500 as the worst, even though we have a very tough schedule, and a playoff berth is very realitic, IMO.

I don't think Denver will go 3-13 or 5-11. I expect a 7-9 season though.

I don't think this is a bad team. They have a tough schedule. If they can find a way to shore up the run defense and get better play from the ST, they can turn it around. I am not expecting that though. I just do not think that they are a playoff caliber team in the AFC.

Lonestar
09-25-2007, 02:17 PM
I don't think Denver will go 3-13 or 5-11. I expect a 7-9 season though.

I don't think this is a bad team. They have a tough schedule. If they can find a way to shore up the run defense and get better play from the ST, they can turn it around. I am not expecting that though. I just do not think that they are a playoff caliber team in the AFC.

I'll jump in on this also and say it is not a bad team just young and very inconsistent. With that and the schedule they are playing even the preseason gimme GB and HOU looks like they will be a loads.

They do have a couple of really weak spots mostly DT and thus the DL that in turn affects the entire Defense.

I guess like you said, that is why they play on Sundays for the most part.

By that I mean both Sundays are not the only day they now take the field. As well as something they show up to play and sometimes they do not as a TEAM all parts of it.

That said, again I hope I'm wrong about the troubled times ahead I think will happen.

omac
09-25-2007, 03:03 PM
How many teams really have the defense to stop Denver's running game, based on last season's stats?

Jacksonville (#4)

San Diego (#7, though we got 158 and 162 yards rushing against them last season)

Pittsburgh (#3, 115 yards rushing against them)

Chicago (#6)

San Diego (#7, 158 & 162)

Minnesota (#1)

Denver's go-to play is the running game; it's as much Denver's identity as Peyton's passing game is the Colts. A big part of the Jaguars success was stopping our run offense. For us to be heavy underdogs against all those 6 future matchups, they would have to be able to limit our rush offense as well as Jacksonville has, which is NOT an easy thing to accomplish. What's to say our rushing offense keeps opponents' offenses off of the field?

That's not even counting on the problems of the other teams ... Minnesota's and Chicago's poor offense, San Diego's problems stemming from their coaching overhaul, LT underperforming, poor coaching in KC resulting in LJ underperforming, Houston with a ton of injuries to key players, Detroit having no run defense and having to contend with our corners, etc.

It's okay to clearly see the problems this team is going through, but I say balance it out with the problems other teams are going through, as well as opportunities brought about by specific matchups.

TXBRONC
09-25-2007, 03:20 PM
I'll jump in on this also and say it is not a bad team just young and very inconsistent. With that and the schedule they are playing even the preseason gimme GB and HOU looks like they will be a loads.

They do have a couple of really weak spots mostly DT and thus the DL that in turn affects the entire Defense.

I guess like you said, that is why they play on Sundays for the most part.

By that I mean both Sundays are not the only day they now take the field. As well as something they show up to play and sometimes they do not as a TEAM all parts of it.

That said, again I hope I'm wrong about the troubled times ahead I think will happen.

JR not argue too heavily here with you but say that the Broncos will go 3-13 is the same as saying we have bad team.