PDA

View Full Version : Panther fans comments on Fox



PAINTERDAVE
01-11-2011, 07:46 PM
From the Panthers message board...
_____________________________________
Don't think Fox's HC days are over, he wore out his welcome in Carolina but he could definitely help out another team.

Here are the positives about Fox:

Well respected by players/other coaches. Even this year, players played their butts off for Fox because of how much they like him. He gets the best out of everyone he coaches

Classy/drama free guy. I think after McDaniels, Bronco fans may appreciate someone like Fox. No nonsense, no issues, he will keep the Broncos in a positive light and you won't have to deal with many distractions. May be boring, but you won't have to worry about any problems.

Committed to veterans and his own guys. Bit of a double edged sword, but Fox doesn't give up on players very often so that may help in regards to Tebow. He will focus on building through the draft and developing your current players so it is nice to have a HC that gives players a full opportunity to develop.

Fox's negatives

Poor at in-game adjustments/change in general. Foxy is as stubborn as a mule. Fox only knows running the ball, running it some more, and running it again. He also believes in a bend but don't break defense. When it works it's great, but when it doesn't it's frustrating. You'll know and your opposition will know what Fox will do before he does it-it'll be up to your players to just straight up beat the other team.

What's his ceiling? Fox will definitely rebuild a team, but can he take them to the SB? I think given a good team Fox can take them to the playoffs, but I'm not sure if he can lead them to the Super Bowl. Most likely any Fox led team is looking at a record of 7-9 to 11-5 any given year. Unless you really catch fire and alot of lucky breaks, it is hard for a Fox-led team to advance very far. Your team won't be awful, but very rarely would you be excellent. Expect alot of average/slightly above average teams under Fox.

Borrrrrrrrrrrrrrring. You'll come to realize if you choose Fox as your HC that he is quite possible the most boring person in the world. He hates interviews and just spouts off phrases that say nothing. He doesn't really show much passion or fire when coaching. You may wonder if he has a pulse from time to time. That also runs through his philosophy on running a team. Again, his schemes are very vanilla. He doesn't want to take risks. He won't want to bring in high profile names or make many bold moves in general. Sometimes as a football fan you just want some excitement around your team-well kiss that goodbye if you take Fox. It will frustrate your fans to no end, especially if you aren't doing well.

silkamilkamonico
01-11-2011, 07:50 PM
Fox, Dennison, Koetter, Fewell, guys that didn't want the HC job, absolutely terrible year to be looking for a HC job. We just cannot seem to catch a break.

Dirk
01-11-2011, 07:57 PM
Dammit Elway...just pick up the phone and ask Chucky to give Denver a shot. :pray:






Yeah I know..it's not going to happen. :cry:

Lancane
01-11-2011, 08:00 PM
Dammit Elway...just pick up the phone and ask Chucky to give Denver a shot. :pray:






Yeah I know..it's not going to happen. :cry:

It's not about giving Chucky a shot, it's about the 7 million dollars or 7 million reasons not to that is stopping him.

bcbronc
01-11-2011, 08:23 PM
I'd expect, with Bowlen's history and Elway's playing style, that if Fox was hired it would be explained in the int process that he'd be expected to bring in an o-coord with some creativity. Can't see Bwolen being on board with a vanilla offense for very long.

No reason to think Fox couldn't loosen up the philosophy a bit.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

PAINTERDAVE
01-11-2011, 08:36 PM
~ I like him more than most posters on this forum. I think Fox was overall a fairly good coach who simply wore out his welcome here. He doesn't make good adjustments most of the time, so can get out-coached. His scheme works fine if he has a dominant defensive line that gets pressure without the need to blitz. Unfortunately, he seems unwilling to change if his line can't get pressure.

He also appears to meddle with offensive scheme a bit. He likes a conservative style, but doesn't seem willing to let his offensive coaching staff take the reins and do what they do.

You'll probably get a lot of "OMG That guy is terrible!!" responses. I don't think that's fair. He did some very good things here, but ultimately couldn't get the job done and wasn't able to shift course when it was seen that what he was trying to do wasn't working.

I think he'd be a good pick up for a lot of organizations. Pretty good coach. Not exceptional. Not terrible. You could do worse.

__________________________________________________ __

~Would definitely be better as a DC.
He's a great guy, and the players seem to like him.
He just is terrible at adjustments. For example we were up 14-3 after halftime in Seattle. We then lost 31-14.

________________________________________________

~ Fox relies on Vets way too much and never likes to give the Rooks a chance. Also look for him to move Tebow to HB/TE.


_________________________

Lancane
01-11-2011, 08:37 PM
I'd expect, with Bowlen's history and Elway's playing style, that if Fox was hired it would be explained in the int process that he'd be expected to bring in an o-coord with some creativity. Can't see Bwolen being on board with a vanilla offense for very long.

No reason to think Fox couldn't loosen up the philosophy a bit.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

He'll become our version of a defensive based Shanahan, every other year a new offensive coordinator, the fans will be bitching again but this time about having no offense.

No thank you, I want Dennison or Koetter, if Fox wants to be the defensive coordinator then so be it.

Cugel
01-11-2011, 08:47 PM
Dammit Elway...just pick up the phone and ask Chucky to give Denver a shot. :pray:

Yeah I know..it's not going to happen. :cry:

You have to understand WHY it's not going to happen: Gruden, Cower, and all the BIG name coaches would want not only about $7 million a year to come back from their comfortable lifestyle as TV analysts, they would also want TOTAL CONTROL over player personnel!

And that's the one thing that Elway absolutely CANNOT offer. Nor SHOULD he! Not after the disaster that was Hurricane McDaniels. :coffee:

So, fuget-about-it. :coffee:

BroncoStud
01-11-2011, 08:51 PM
You have to understand WHY it's not going to happen: Gruden, Cower, and all the BIG name coaches would want not only about $7 million a year to come back from their comfortable lifestyle as TV analysts, they would also want TOTAL CONTROL over player personnel!

And that's the one thing that Elway absolutely CANNOT offer. Nor SHOULD he! Not after the disaster that was Hurricane McDaniels. :coffee:

So, fuget-about-it. :coffee:

I think Gruden and Cowher have earned enough credibility to have some control over player personnel... McDaniels was a 32 year old rookie Head Coach... Big difference.

Say HELL NO to Fox.

Cugel
01-11-2011, 08:51 PM
He'll become our version of a defensive based Shanahan, every other year a new offensive coordinator, the fans will be bitching again but this time about having no offense.

No thank you, I want Dennison or Koetter, if Fox wants to be the defensive coordinator then so be it.

It wouldn't take 6 months before the fans were absolutely SCREAMING that Fox was "stifling Tebow!" And they'd be right!

I just think it'd be a terrible fit for Tebow. He's a razzle-dazzle high-risk, high-reward player. His strengths are athleticism and running ability. Obviously he needs to develop his pocket passing skills, but NOT at the total expense of all the intangibles he brings such as his ability to make something out of a NOTHING play.

Clamping down on Tebow's style not only will make him a mediocre QB, it will be utterly, totally FRUSTRATING and BORING for the fans, who will be actively calling for Fox's resignation by mid-season. (At least the Tebow-loving ones will).

atwater27
01-11-2011, 08:54 PM
I think Gruden and Cowher have earned enough credibility to have some control over player personnel... McDaniels was a 32 year old rookie Head Coach... Big difference.
.

Exaaaaaaactly.:beer:

BroncoStud
01-11-2011, 08:55 PM
It wouldn't take 6 months before the fans were absolutely SCREAMING that Fox was "stifling Tebow!" And they'd be right!

I just think it'd be a terrible fit for Tebow. He's a razzle-dazzle high-risk, high-reward player. His strengths are athleticism and running ability. Obviously he needs to develop his pocket passing skills, but NOT at the total expense of all the intangibles he brings such as his ability to make something out of a NOTHING play.

Clamping down on Tebow's style not only will make him a mediocre QB, it will be utterly, totally FRUSTRATING and BORING for the fans, who will be actively calling for Fox's resignation by mid-season. (At least the Tebow-loving ones will).

How sweet it would be to see Tebow running bootleg in Dennison's offense...

PAINTERDAVE
01-11-2011, 08:56 PM
It wouldn't take 6 months before the fans were absolutely SCREAMING that Fox was "stifling Tebow!" And they'd be right!

I just think it'd be a terrible fit for Tebow. He's a razzle-dazzle high-risk, high-reward player. His strengths are athleticism and running ability. Obviously he needs to develop his pocket passing skills, but NOT at the total expense of all the intangibles he brings such as his ability to make something out of a NOTHING play.

Clamping down on Tebow's style not only will make him a mediocre QB, it will be utterly, totally FRUSTRATING and BORING for the fans, who will be actively calling for Fox's resignation by mid-season. (At least the Tebow-loving ones will).

Same way as Chan Gailey came in to Pittsburgh and ruined Kordell Stewart.

He tried to force Stewart to become who Chan wanted him to be..
instead of letting Kordell be "Slash".

Square pegs don't fit in round holes.

Cugel
01-11-2011, 08:56 PM
I think Gruden and Cowher have earned enough credibility to have some control over player personnel... McDaniels was a 32 year old rookie Head Coach... Big difference.

Say HELL NO to Fox.

Not only have they earned that credibility, they will absolutely GET some team to give it to them. But, after Shanahan and McDaniels that team is CLEARLY NOT going to be the Broncos!

They didn't bring Elway in to make him a figure-head. And he's simply NOT going to give final control over Player-personnel to a HC. Period. And he SHOULDN'T!

It's just too big a job for any one guy. I think Shanahan was as good a coach as there was in the NFL, and he could obviously judge offensive player talent (as Cutler, Sheffler, Marshall, Kuper, Clady, Harris, Royal, etc. proved). But, as GM, it just doesn't work! It just has so many drawbacks.

Do I really need to list them? It wouldn't be any different in the end with Cowher or Gruden. I don't think ANY ONE GUY can be the best as BOTH GM and coach.

That doesn't unfortunately mean that Brian Xanders is going to be a great GM. Either Cowher or Gruden might well be a better GM than Xanders.

But, we'll never know. :coffee:

Cugel
01-11-2011, 09:00 PM
Same way as Chan Gailey came in to Pittsburgh and ruined Kordell Stewart.

He tried to force Stewart to become who Chan wanted him to be..
instead of letting Kordell be "Slash".

Square pegs don't fit in round holes.

I think Tebow is already a better player than Kordell ever was! Tebow isn't going to be a "slash" QB. He'll learn to be a pocket passing QB, but he can ALSO run and be a threat rolling out or running it.

Steve Young was more of an athletic running QB when he came into the league also, but he turned out OK. They'll have to work on Tebow's mechanics, but he's a VERY hard working guy, and I have no doubt he'll start to master them.

Whether he'll ever be the kind of pocket-passing elite QB you need to win the SB though is still an open question. He COULD BE, but it's not guaranteed for sure. :coffee:

dogfish
01-11-2011, 09:19 PM
Dammit Elway...just pick up the phone and ask Chucky to give Denver a shot. :pray:






Yeah I know..it's not going to happen. :cry:

won't somebody just make this nightmare all go away???



*buries face in hands*

HORSEPOWER 56
01-11-2011, 09:25 PM
How sweet it would be to see Tebow running bootleg in Dennison's offense...

How awesome will it be to still see our defense give up 28+ points a game because Dennison is a Shanahan/Kubiak clone...

If we hire Rick, I'll get behind him, but there's a reason we fired Shanahan and it was the lack of ":defense:" in Denver.

I see no reason to believe that Dennison can fix that. Offense, sure. But at this point I'd rather have Fox come in and make our defense top 10 and let sorry-assed McCoy keep running the offense than go back to an offense that moves the ball great between the 20's but can't score in the redzone backed by a defense in the bottom 10% of the league.

I don't give a SHIT who the next HC is, but if we hire another offensive minded douchebag who can't fix the defense I'm gonna blow up Dove Valley... I swear to God.

BroncoStud
01-11-2011, 09:31 PM
How awesome will it be to still see our defense give up 28+ points a game because Dennison is a Shanahan/Kubiak clone...

If we hire Rick, I'll get behind him, but there's a reason we fired Shanahan and it was the lack of ":defense:" in Denver.

I see no reason to believe that Dennison can fix that. Offense, sure. But at this point I'd rather have Fox come in and make our defense top 10 and let sorry-assed McCoy keep running the offense than go back to an offense that moves the ball great between the 20's but can't score in the redzone backed by a defense in the bottom 10% of the league.

I don't give a SHIT who the next HC is, but if we hire another offensive minded douchebag who can't fix the defense I'm gonna blow up Dove Valley... I swear to God.

There is no proof that Fox could come in here and fix the defense. He doesn't have Peppers and many other great defensive players he's had the luxury of coaching in the past. His defense this season without Peppers was pedestrian - at best, while Chicago is downright lethal with him.

Dennison is NOT Shanahan, no one knows how good he could be. He knows football, that's for sure. Listen to him talk.

dogfish
01-11-2011, 09:40 PM
McDaniels is NOT Weis or Mangini, no one knows how good he could be. He knows football, that's for sure. Listen to him talk.



just sayin'. . . :D

HORSEPOWER 56
01-11-2011, 09:47 PM
There is no proof that Fox could come in here and fix the defense. He doesn't have Peppers and many other great defensive players he's had the luxury of coaching in the past. His defense this season without Peppers was pedestrian - at best, while Chicago is downright lethal with him.

Dennison is NOT Shanahan, no one knows how good he could be. He knows football, that's for sure. Listen to him talk.

There really is no proof that Dennison can do anything except play LB and hold a clipboard...

He was the ST coach, OL coach, and OC for Shanahan. Then he was McDaniels' OC for one year. Then Kubiak's for one. Let's see, he was an offensive assistant for three coaches that ruled the offense with an iron fist and called all the plays... He never had to call plays or gameplan. He sat in the booth and made recommendations on the plays to run...

Who do you think he's going to emulate on offense? Air Coryell? No, it will be Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak, the two guys he learned everything from. Is there any evidence to the contrary?

I've already resigned myself to the fact that there's probably a 75% chance unless Fox dazzles them tomorrow that Dennison is our guy, but you might as well tell me we're getting Kubiak. That wouldn't excite me, either.

Right now, the most important question is... WHO IS OUR DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR??? Our defense was 32nd in the league. 32ND!!! If Dennison ain't the guy to fix it, I don't want him here. I don't give a rats ass about bleeding orange and blue cliches.

dogfish
01-11-2011, 09:54 PM
Right now, the most important question is... WHO IS OUR DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR??? Our defense was 32nd in the league. 32ND!!! If Dennison ain't the guy to fix it, I don't want him here. I don't give a rats ass about bleeding orange and blue cliches.

i keep asking this, and have yet to get a better answer than "i'm sure he'll get somebody good". . . by waving his magic wand, i'm assuming. . . i suspect most people just want to cling to any possible illusion of real defensive improvements as long as they can. . .

and when they trot out some no-name college coordinator or horrible retread, most peeps will do their best to rally around the choice-- even if they are thinking to themself "what?? WTF is this guy, and why did we hire him?"

HORSEPOWER 56
01-11-2011, 09:58 PM
i keep asking this, and have yet to get a better answer than "i'm sure he'll get somebody good". . . by waving his magic wand, i'm assuming. . . i suspect most people just want to cling to any possible illusion of real defensive improvements as long as they can. . .

and when they trot out some no-name college coordinator or horrible retread, most peeps will do their best to rally around the choice-- even if they are thinking to themself "what?? WTF is this guy, and why did we hire him?"

Yeah, you and me have been on the same page since the end of the week 17 game, dog. It's all about the defense. Fix the defense and everything else will fall into line.

With the offense we witnessed the last 3 weeks of the regular season and defense that can hold teams to approximately 20 points a game with any kind of consistency, this team can win a LOT of football games...

Agent of Orange
01-11-2011, 10:57 PM
As I said before, I cant help but think he's burnt out. Honestly, they should throw some money at him to be the DC.

BroncoStud
01-11-2011, 11:49 PM
There really is no proof that Dennison can do anything except play LB and hold a clipboard...

He was the ST coach, OL coach, and OC for Shanahan. Then he was McDaniels' OC for one year. Then Kubiak's for one. Let's see, he was an offensive assistant for three coaches that ruled the offense with an iron fist and called all the plays... He never had to call plays or gameplan. He sat in the booth and made recommendations on the plays to run...

Who do you think he's going to emulate on offense? Air Coryell? No, it will be Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak, the two guys he learned everything from. Is there any evidence to the contrary?

I've already resigned myself to the fact that there's probably a 75% chance unless Fox dazzles them tomorrow that Dennison is our guy, but you might as well tell me we're getting Kubiak. That wouldn't excite me, either.

Right now, the most important question is... WHO IS OUR DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR??? Our defense was 32nd in the league. 32ND!!! If Dennison ain't the guy to fix it, I don't want him here. I don't give a rats ass about bleeding orange and blue cliches.

The defense is going to be fixed through the DRAFT. It's a hell of a lot easier to call a defense when you have NFL talent playing in your schemes. There's not a coordinator on the planet that could have fielded a top 15 defense with our front 7 and horrible safety play.

Mike Nolan worked wonders last year and the defense still fell apart after midseason. What people don't seem to comprehend is that this is a TALENT issue more than a coaching issue. We've had respected coordinators here that could do nothing with this defense.

Trust is that the Denver defense fell apart when Al Wilson was injured. It has not recovered from that, EVER. We don't need to hire John Fox or any other defensive-minded coach to fix this defense. The ONLY way to do that is by bringing in players that belong on the field.

broncobryce
01-12-2011, 12:36 AM
Fox would be ideal IMO. He runs the ball, and hits the deep pass. Two of Tebow's strengths. What Tebow needs right now is a good running game and defense, like any young QB.
And Tebow can make plays on his own to keep the offense going at times.
I'm not against Dennison, but I want a proven coach if possible.
Fox took Panthers to the superbowl with Jake Delhomme.
Child Please.

dogfish
01-12-2011, 12:40 AM
Fox took Panthers to the superbowl with Jake Delhomme.
Child Please.

:lol::lol:

underrated29
01-12-2011, 01:19 AM
There are so many ways to fix the defense. None of them should start with Fox, unless he is the DC.

I do not know of the other ways to fix the defense, but I know that it can only get better. Having said that, if we get fox, our offense will certainly take a crap in a barrel and I fear for tebows development as well.


We keep running in this same freaking cycle. Offense is set, all we need to do is fix the d. Then we get new help and we fix the offense, ignore the D. Then we get the new new offense intact and now once again need to fix the D. If we hire fox, it will be fix the defense but then the offense will need it too. Then the Defense will be middle road but the offense will be like carolinas is now, or buffalo- Terrible!


We are not the ravens, we will not have a ravens type of defense, we can not get by with mediocre offense. Tebow can do a lot of things, but he will also do what the coach tells him. Fox is to me like dominique fox was for us.

A bad idea and a waste of time.

Chris90210
01-12-2011, 01:23 AM
It wouldn't take 6 months before the fans were absolutely SCREAMING that Fox was "stifling Tebow!" And they'd be right!

I just think it'd be a terrible fit for Tebow. He's a razzle-dazzle high-risk, high-reward player. His strengths are athleticism and running ability. Obviously he needs to develop his pocket passing skills, but NOT at the total expense of all the intangibles he brings such as his ability to make something out of a NOTHING play.

Clamping down on Tebow's style not only will make him a mediocre QB, it will be utterly, totally FRUSTRATING and BORING for the fans, who will be actively calling for Fox's resignation by mid-season. (At least the Tebow-loving ones will).

We are building a quality team not a tebow team. If tebow works out then great i love watching him play but we need to set up a first class coaching staff and let them mold the team and bring us back to the glory days.

JDL
01-12-2011, 01:34 AM
Panthers gave up 14 TDs by offense and special teams the past 2 seasons... THAT is why Fox is available... he's a good coach... he isn't the savior but compared to who we are interviewing he is gold... he is the NFC version of Jeff Fisher.

As for the original poster... good info, but... he already took a team to the Super Bowl? What's with saying you don't know if he can... that seems fairly unobservant or inconsistent with what evidence is available.

JDL
01-12-2011, 01:37 AM
i keep asking this, and have yet to get a better answer than "i'm sure he'll get somebody good". . . by waving his magic wand, i'm assuming. . . i suspect most people just want to cling to any possible illusion of real defensive improvements as long as they can. . .

and when they trot out some no-name college coordinator or horrible retread, most peeps will do their best to rally around the choice-- even if they are thinking to themself "what?? WTF is this guy, and why did we hire him?"

Almost a guarantee that if we hire Dennison we get Frank Bush as DC.. he's a former Broncos coach too... and BOY that worked out GREAAAAAAAATTTTTTT for Houston!

JDL
01-12-2011, 01:42 AM
There are so many ways to fix the defense. None of them should start with Fox, unless he is the DC.

I do not know of the other ways to fix the defense, but I know that it can only get better. Having said that, if we get fox, our offense will certainly take a crap in a barrel and I fear for tebows development as well.


We keep running in this same freaking cycle. Offense is set, all we need to do is fix the d. Then we get new help and we fix the offense, ignore the D. Then we get the new new offense intact and now once again need to fix the D. If we hire fox, it will be fix the defense but then the offense will need it too. Then the Defense will be middle road but the offense will be like carolinas is now, or buffalo- Terrible!


We are not the ravens, we will not have a ravens type of defense, we can not get by with mediocre offense. Tebow can do a lot of things, but he will also do what the coach tells him. Fox is to me like dominique fox was for us.

A bad idea and a waste of time.

Fox's defenses have rarely been middle of the road... This past year was the worst it's ever been due to lack of funding to retain FAs and many injuries... prior.. he had 2 15th place finishes in scoring, a 12th, 5 top 10s and 2 top 5s

OVerall that is FAR from middle of the road and FAR better than Denver has seen in quite some time.

Lancane
01-12-2011, 02:34 AM
Almost a guarantee that if we hire Dennison we get Frank Bush as DC.. he's a former Broncos coach too... and BOY that worked out GREAAAAAAAATTTTTTT for Houston!

Bullshit, and I'll call you on that...it's nothing but an utter guess, and if you look very carefully, you'll find out that Dennison has ties with some of the better defensive minds of the modern era, Nolan, Collier, Phillips and those who learned from those same men. And why would the front office allow him to hire a coach that was just fired from that same position? Because you want to make wild guesses so people think that Fox, who is more conservative then Dan Reeves is the right F'n choice. Since your spewing crap, mind telling me which coaching tree Fox hails from?

Try the Bill Walsh/Jim Fassel tree, whoops a daisy, we've got people bitching about the Seifert/Walsh tree through Shanahan, but Fox is heralds from that same tree...well, maybe he'll bring his old buddy Fassel in as the offensive coordinator since he has ties here and then I can hear those same people bitching about it before, praising the idea regardless of what they said prior...or still bitching. But it's utter nonsense to condemn Dennison by guessing instead of seeing what he can possibly do or will do.

dogfish
01-12-2011, 02:46 AM
okay cane, i'm holding you personally responsible if the guy comes in here and hires bush. . .

OR greg robinson!


:laugh:

Lancane
01-12-2011, 03:50 AM
okay cane, i'm holding you personally responsible if the guy comes in here and hires bush. . .

OR greg robinson!


:laugh:

Why not...I get blamed for everything else. I was at fault for Cutler, Tebow, McDaniels, Knowshon, I know I'll get blamed if Koetter get's the head coaching job, no one even knew who he was before I mentioned him and then everyone bitched when they said he would get an interview...so, alright, I'll take the blame if he hires either of those two as the defensive coordinator.

:laugh:

BroncoStud
01-12-2011, 04:20 AM
Why not...I get blamed for everything else. I was at fault for Cutler, Tebow, McDaniels, Knowshon, I know I'll get blamed if Koetter get's the head coaching job, no one even knew who he was before I mentioned him and then everyone bitched when they said he would get an interview...so, alright, I'll take the blame if he hires either of those two as the defensive coordinator.

:laugh:

I knew who he was I just didn't want him.

Lancane
01-12-2011, 04:26 AM
I knew who he was I just didn't want him.

One of the few...but most had to look him up on Wikipedia...:lol:

dogfish
01-12-2011, 04:48 AM
One of the few...but most had to look him up on Wikipedia...:lol:

i knew who he was, but i still had to look him up on NFL.com. . .

it didn't look that great. . . :fear:



but hey, at least i don't blame you for mcdaniels or cutler. . .

Lancane
01-12-2011, 04:59 AM
i knew who he was, but i still had to look him up on NFL.com. . .

it didn't look that great. . . :fear:



but hey, at least i don't blame you for mcdaniels or cutler. . .

:shocked: someone who doesn't blame me, miracles never cease. :lol:

BroncoStud
01-12-2011, 05:56 AM
One of the few...but most had to look him up on Wikipedia...:lol:

Haha, hell I remember when Dirk had accepted the Oklahoma State job then backed out and took the ASU position. He was not a liked man for a long time in Poke-Ville.

Lonestar
01-12-2011, 08:17 AM
It's not about giving Chucky a shot, it's about the 7 million dollars or 7 million reasons not to that is stopping him.

Actually it is more like about $2.5 million reasons.

We all know the next guy here is going to get between 3.5 and 4.5 million..

Frankly I don't want him in here either as he is not a player friendly type guy. about the only thing positive he brings to the table is he has worked with Tebow and likes him.

TXBRONC
01-12-2011, 08:48 AM
I know this is only a guess but I would think one of the main reasons Fox was so run oriented had to do wit who was behind center.

TXBRONC
01-12-2011, 08:56 AM
:shocked: someone who doesn't blame me, miracles never cease. :lol:

What you mean dufuss? I've never blamed you either. :D

Dzone
01-12-2011, 09:48 AM
Hmmmm so Fox looks like Wade Phillips and has Wade Phillips borrrrrring personality. I cannardly wait

slim
01-12-2011, 10:42 AM
Why not...I get blamed for everything else. I was at fault for Cutler, Tebow, McDaniels, Knowshon, I know I'll get blamed if Koetter get's the head coaching job, no one even knew who he was before I mentioned him and then everyone bitched when they said he would get an interview...so, alright, I'll take the blame if he hires either of those two as the defensive coordinator.

:laugh:

I watched every game he coached at ASU.

That is why I don't want him.

underrated29
01-12-2011, 11:44 AM
Fox is not the answer for our team I am telling you. He would be the answer for a team like the Jags, or titans, or perhaps the raiders. But not us.

Our team is not built for his style of offense. The guy just runs idle. He acts like he is idle. Like a zombie or under a hypnotic state. Our offense will morph into that and it can not be allowed.





Please please please do not let us get him. Of all the coaches out there he must not be the one.

TXBRONC
01-12-2011, 11:46 AM
Fox is not the answer for our team I am telling you. He would be the answer for a team like the Jags, or titans, or perhaps the raiders. But not us.

Our team is not built for his style of offense. The guy just runs idle. He acts like he is idle. Like a zombie or under a hypnotic state. Our offense will morph into that and it can not be allowed.





Please please please do not let us get him. Of all the coaches out there he must not be the one.

Our team needs to be rebulit regardless of who the new head coach is.

underrated29
01-12-2011, 11:50 AM
Our team needs to be rebulit regardless of who the new head coach is.



I disagree. I think the offense is almost 100% in place. A few finishing touches.( a RT, a TE, and or a LG if beadles moves to RT, and backup RB).... It is the defense that needs the overhaul.

GEM
01-12-2011, 11:52 AM
i keep asking this, and have yet to get a better answer than "i'm sure he'll get somebody good". . . by waving his magic wand, i'm assuming. . . i suspect most people just want to cling to any possible illusion of real defensive improvements as long as they can. . .

and when they trot out some no-name college coordinator or horrible retread, most peeps will do their best to rally around the choice-- even if they are thinking to themself "what?? WTF is this guy, and why did we hire him?"

But the point is you are making the decision of what he's going to do before he's even been hired. Do you look at those tattooed girls in your crystal ball, too? :lol:

TXBRONC
01-12-2011, 11:56 AM
I disagree. I think the offense is almost 100% in place. A few finishing touches.( a RT, a TE, and or a LG if beadles moves to RT, and backup RB).... It is the defense that needs the overhaul.

That's still a lot in my book when you add that to what needs to be done on defense.

The Glue Factory
01-12-2011, 12:09 PM
It wouldn't take 6 months before the fans were absolutely SCREAMING that Fox was "stifling Tebow!" And they'd be right!

I just think it'd be a terrible fit for Tebow. He's a razzle-dazzle high-risk, high-reward player. His strengths are athleticism and running ability. Obviously he needs to develop his pocket passing skills, but NOT at the total expense of all the intangibles he brings such as his ability to make something out of a NOTHING play.

Clamping down on Tebow's style not only will make him a mediocre QB, it will be utterly, totally FRUSTRATING and BORING for the fans, who will be actively calling for Fox's resignation by mid-season. (At least the Tebow-loving ones will).

So basically it would be the second coming of Dan Reeves. Ugh. No thanks.

Cugel
01-12-2011, 12:28 PM
How awesome will it be to still see our defense give up 28+ points a game because Dennison is a Shanahan/Kubiak clone...

If we hire Rick, I'll get behind him, but there's a reason we fired Shanahan and it was the lack of ":defense:" in Denver.

I see no reason to believe that Dennison can fix that. Offense, sure. But at this point I'd rather have Fox come in and make our defense top 10 and let sorry-assed McCoy keep running the offense than go back to an offense that moves the ball great between the 20's but can't score in the redzone backed by a defense in the bottom 10% of the league.

I don't give a SHIT who the next HC is, but if we hire another offensive minded douchebag who can't fix the defense I'm gonna blow up Dove Valley... I swear to God.

I don't really think that the MAIN reason the defense sucked was that Shanny just didn't care or couldn't coach Defense!

It was because Shanahan was "large and in charge" of drafting. And he did an absolutely MISERABLE job of identifying and drafting defensive talent. And it wasn't even that he didn't spend draft picks on defense: He used a #1 and a #3 to move up in the 1st round, but then he drafted Jarvis Moss. He wasted further #1 picks on guys like Deltha O'Neil and Willie Middlebrooks (and to be fair T George Foster). He spent 2nd round picks on DE Tim Crowder and LB Terry Pierce.

The MAIN thing will be for Xanders to prove he can identify talent and bring it in. IF he can do that, then the Broncos will improve rapidly. They have 3 or 4 picks in the top 2 rounds and probably 5 in the top 3. That's plenty of ammo to get 4 or 5 new starters just from this years' draft!

If they do their job right and draft guys like Orakpo and Clay Matthews instead of guys like Moreno and Robert Ayers, then Dennison would be fine.

If not, then the second coming of Vince Lombardi wouldn't be enough. :coffee:

Cugel
01-12-2011, 12:31 PM
So basically it would be the second coming of Dan Reeves. Ugh. No thanks.

Pretty much, I'm afraid! And Tebow is no Elway (nobody else is either outside Peyton Manning and Tom Brady). So it would be like Reeves with a rookie QB and almost no defensive talent.

Not a pretty picture. :coffee:

Cugel
01-12-2011, 12:33 PM
I disagree. I think the offense is almost 100% in place. A few finishing touches.( a RT, a TE, and or a LG if beadles moves to RT, and backup RB).... It is the defense that needs the overhaul.

You do realize that Denver had the WORST rushing attack in the NFL? :coffee:

dogfish
01-12-2011, 01:10 PM
But the point is you are making the decision of what he's going to do before he's even been hired. Do you look at those tattooed girls in your crystal ball, too? :lol:

i'm "making the decision?"

i don't follow you. . . :confused:

do you mean i'm trying to predict what might happen? of course i am. . . how else do you decide who you think is a good candidate? isn't the front office trying to make their best guess as to what each guy might be able to accomplish?

or are you suggesting that we shouldn't talk about anything in advance, but only reflect on things that have already happened so we can be sure to have the benefit of hindsight? because i'm not interested in talking about the mcdaniels dumpster fire any more-- everything's ben said that needs to be, i'm more than ready to move on from that fiasco, and look to the future instead. . .

Denver Native (Carol)
01-12-2011, 01:16 PM
Dammit Elway...just pick up the phone and ask Chucky to give Denver a shot. :pray:






Yeah I know..it's not going to happen. :cry:


Former Super Bowl-winning coach and current ESPN analyst Jon Gruden said Monday that he does not intend to coach in the NFL next season.

Gruden served as a radio analyst for ESPN's broadcast of the BCS championship game on Monday. He was asked by co-host Mike Tirico after the game if he would return to the coaching ranks.

"No. I'll be back with you," Gruden said, via the Cleveland Plain-Dealer, to his Monday Night Football partner.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/01/jon-gruden-says-hell-be-back-on-espn-next-season/1

underrated29
01-12-2011, 01:22 PM
You do realize that Denver had the WORST rushing attack in the NFL? :coffee:



I do. But I do not think that has anything to do with the offense not being close to intact. I said another TE, LG/RT depending on where beadles goes, because ryan harris is out of here (sadly), and a RB-I'd prefer a speed demon.



But aside from that, I attribute the HORRIBLE rushing to the playcalling. Not only was it obvious to us fans that we were running but the defense too. Way to predictable. In addition to that, the fact that we Never ever ever work the middle of the field in the 7-10 yard range means that the Linebackers do not have to drop as deep in coverage and therefore can play closer to the line of scrimmage and eat up our run game. Which they did.

Our offense to me looked like one big umbrella, or even the pocket for a quarterback. We worked the outsides All the freaking time and never worked the middle of the field unless it was 15+ yards down the field, sometimes 20+

We never worked the short area across the center for a quick hit of 5-7 yards. Our run game suffered because of this, i have no doubt. Besides, as i stated before the extremely predictable and pathetic playcalling.

The Glue Factory
01-12-2011, 01:35 PM
Pretty much, I'm afraid! And Tebow is no Elway (nobody else is either outside Peyton Manning and Tom Brady). So it would be like Reeves with a rookie QB and almost no defensive talent.

Not a pretty picture. :coffee:

Manning and Brady are nothing like Elway either. I'd say Tebow is closer to Elway in one respect in that Tebow has the ability to lead in the huddle and provide come from behind potential when it's late in the 4th. Physical talent and athletic abilities are different but I'd rather have a QB like Tebow with less than stellar athletic ability than the best athletic QB that is here for a paycheck.

TXBRONC
01-12-2011, 02:00 PM
I watched every game he coached at ASU.

That is why I don't want him.

My gut feeling is that it will come down Fewell and Dennison.

slim
01-12-2011, 02:45 PM
My gut feeling is that it will come down Fewell and Dennison.

Fox and Dennison.

There is no way Fewell gets the job.

dogfish
01-12-2011, 03:17 PM
Fox and Dennison.

There is no way Fewell gets the job.

can't we just agree on fewell and fox?


:noidea:

underrated29
01-12-2011, 03:45 PM
can't we just agree on fewell and fox?


:noidea:



As a DC?

You got a deal!!

dogfish
01-12-2011, 03:49 PM
As a DC?

You got a deal!!

with dennison as assistant HC/offense?


i like it. . . forget choosing a head coach, we'll just hire 'em all. . .

BroncoStud
01-12-2011, 03:52 PM
You know it's a horrible year to hire a coach when fans are actually arguing in an attempt to justify hiring John Fox... That's when you know you picked the wrong season to need a Head Coach.

slim
01-12-2011, 03:54 PM
can't we just agree on fewell and fox?


:noidea:

No.

I would rather hire Studes than Fewell.

dogfish
01-12-2011, 03:57 PM
No.

I would rather hire Studes than Fewell.

fine, be that way!






FTR, i also think it will come down to fox and dennison, with dennison ultimately getting the job because he fits better into joe ellis' pay scale. . .

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2011, 04:01 PM
fine, be that way!






FTR, i also think it will come down to fox and dennison, with dennison ultimately getting the job because he fits better into joe ellis' pay scale. . .

Something in this photo leads me to believe that Ellis doesn't get the final say with John Fox. Bowlen himself is in the room for this interview, something he hasn't done with the other candidates...

http://twitpic.com/3pg7co

underrated29
01-12-2011, 04:25 PM
with dennison as assistant HC/offense?


i like it. . . forget choosing a head coach, we'll just hire 'em all. . .



At this point, I do not care who the head coach is. I am not particularly fond of any of them. At all, actually. But I do NOT think Fox is a good fit for us. I think he can get us to the playoffs and quickly, but I dont think he can get us to the big dance unless he PIMPS us out on defense, ravens/steeler style.

dogfish
01-12-2011, 05:06 PM
At this point, I do not care who the head coach is. I am not particularly fond of any of them. At all, actually. But I do NOT think Fox is a good fit for us. I think he can get us to the playoffs and quickly, but I dont think he can get us to the big dance unless he PIMPS us out on defense, ravens/steeler style.

see, this is exactly my thing. . . you guys are worrying about super bowl?

[insert jim mora rant here]

the big dance? sounds great, but we need to build a team that can be competitive within our own feeble division first. . . a trio of tom landry, vince lombardi and bill walsh couldn't take this roster to the super bowl inside of three or four years. . .

i absolutely agree that fox won't get us there. . . i do think he'll get us back to .500 or better, encourage the growth of defensive talent (he can't lean on vets here, we only have one or two even worth playing), re-build the running game and not trade off our best young players. . . at least get us back to a culture of tough, professional football, not the nancyboi arena league horseshit we played under mcdaniels (and shanahan's defenses after '05). . .

you have to have a strong foundation to build a nice house on, and fox is the only candidate that i feel confident in. . . mostly because most of the other guys are unknowns. . . sure, you can say "fox isn't elite" and swing for the fences on a lesser-known candidate-- but the odds of finding the next mcdaniels are probably a lot higher than the next belichick, especially when you aren't even swinging for the fences with guys that are really considered top candidates. . .

fox is more "safe" than exciting, no doubt. . . i just think people are fooling themselves if they think the other candidates are likely to put together some dynamic powerhouse right off the bat. . . koetter's only NFL experience is coordinating for the ultra-conservative jags. . . dennison is from a model that produces solid offenses and terrible defenses, and we've already gotten a glimpse what the playcalling would be like under studesville. . . i have zero idea what type of offense fewell would favor. . .

but with tebow at quarterback, a conservative offense is unfortunately pretty much what we're going to need for at least a year or two. . . beef up the D and the running game to protect our young QB. . . i think fox not only can but will do those things, he's proven that. . . if we find that he's holding the O back after that, then we go out and look for a new coach when we're a little more appealing destination than what we are right now, and we don't have the salary for two other coaches on the books. . .

i'd rather watch fox field a few boring .500 teams than watch another rank amateur completely crash the car again. . .

hotcarl
01-12-2011, 05:08 PM
sucks

GEM
01-12-2011, 05:12 PM
You know it's a horrible year to hire a coach when fans are actually arguing in an attempt to justify hiring John Fox... That's when you know you picked the wrong season to need a Head Coach.

If it meant firing the little leprechaun (someone else used that today and I like it) ...it's a damn good year to need a head coach. :lol:

Lancane
01-12-2011, 05:20 PM
If it meant firing the little leprechaun (someone else used that today and I like it) ...it's a damn good year to need a head coach. :lol:

I don't know Gem, I might be willing to re-hire the F'n leprechaun if it means not giving the position to Fox, who had his chance and proved mediocre. Hell, why not just give the job to Keith Burns, he's a better choice.

:eek:

GEM
01-12-2011, 05:28 PM
I don't know Gem, I might be willing to re-hire the F'n leprechaun if it means not giving the position to Fox, who had his chance and proved mediocre. Hell, why not just give the job to Keith Burns, he's a better choice.

:eek:

You shut your dirty mouth, Cane. He who speaketh of bringing back the leprechaun should get an ass whooping just for saying that!!!


:lol:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2011, 05:28 PM
I don't know Gem, I might be willing to re-hire the F'n leprechaun if it means not giving the position to Fox, who had his chance and proved mediocre. Hell, why not just give the job to Keith Burns, he's a better choice.

:eek:

Of all the HC's in the history of the NFL, how many have actually gotten their team to a Superbowl?

Fox is in that club. I'm okay with him. He believes in the same thing that I like, DEFENSE and a solid RUNNING GAME. If you're not cool with him that's fine, but it's not like we're ranting and raving about hiring Marvin Lewis here.

BroncoStud
01-12-2011, 05:30 PM
Of all the HC's in the history of the NFL, how many have actually gotten their team to a Superbowl?

Fox is in that club. I'm okay with him. He believes in the same thing that I like, DEFENSE and a solid RUNNING GAME. If you're not cool with him that's fine, but it's not like we're ranting and raving about hiring Marvin Lewis here.

No, Marvin Lewis didn't get fired, John Fox did.

Lancane
01-12-2011, 05:45 PM
Of all the HC's in the history of the NFL, how many have actually gotten their team to a Superbowl?

Fox is in that club. I'm okay with him. He believes in the same thing that I like, DEFENSE and a solid RUNNING GAME. If you're not cool with him that's fine, but it's not like we're ranting and raving about hiring Marvin Lewis here.

Can we trade Fox for Lewis? Hell what about Cable, he's still available...what about Fassel, I'd trade Fox for Norv Turner's ass even. Oooh, what about this, Stoops still could be interested, Todd Bowles? Hell, I'll even jump on the Fewell bandwagon! I'd prefer Dennison, but I'd rather give Fewell a shot over Fox. Sonny Lubick doesn't have a job? Nor does Bill Romanowski!

:eek:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2011, 05:55 PM
No, Marvin Lewis didn't get fired, John Fox did.

Technically, Fox didn't get fired. His contract expired. Just like Tom Cable. Just like Lewis' until they extended it 2 days after it expired. It's not Fox's fault that the Bengals are dumb enough to renew Lewis' contract even though Fox has had more success than Lewis has in their respective times with their respective clubs.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2011, 06:16 PM
Here's Andrew Mason's take on Fox.

http://maxdenver.com/blog1/2011/01/12/fox-experience-his-selling-point/

It would appear that Fox is feeling us out as much as we are him. He wants to coach, but it's obvious that he wants to make sure we're a good fit for him, too.

dogfish
01-12-2011, 06:44 PM
Here's Andrew Mason's take on Fox.

http://maxdenver.com/blog1/2011/01/12/fox-experience-his-selling-point/

It would appear that Fox is feeling us out as much as we are him. He wants to coach, but it's obvious that he wants to make sure we're a good fit for him, too.

i take that as a good sign. . . and honestly, probably representative of some wariness of this situation around the league. . . i don't blame him-- nothing to judge this FO by yet, i'm sure he wants to have an idea what he'd be getting into before he signs up. . . that suggests that he wants to find a situation where he thinks he has a chance to win, as opposed to getting some raider-type hire who wants the job because it's the only one he can get. . .

Lancane
01-12-2011, 06:56 PM
i take that as a good sign. . . and honestly, probably representative of some wariness of this situation around the league. . . i don't blame him-- nothing to judge this FO by yet, i'm sure he wants to have an idea what he'd be getting into before he signs up. . . that suggests that he wants to find a situation where he thinks he has a chance to win, as opposed to getting some raider-type hire who wants the job because it's the only one he can get. . .

Hopefully Bowlen bungled it up and made himself look insane so Fox decides he's not interested!

:coffee:

PAINTERDAVE
01-12-2011, 08:17 PM
Stolen from another board...

____________________

Hey Guys

Since I started watching football I've been a Panthers fan, and a lot of that is covered by John Fox's tenure at head coach. So for some reason I feel like I should tell you exactly what he's all about and what you can expect from him, since your team's organizational constituency has been courting him for the last week. Keep in mind I understand this is the way he ran things in Charlotte, and things may be different in Denver since your Front Office is a little less patient, and I understand the culture is different than the mostly lax environment the Carolinas have been until recently. I guess I'll start with offense/defense.

Defense: Since Fox is a defensive head coach I'll start here. Fox is not aggressive as a coach in any particular way, at least he wasn't when he was in Carolina. His defense doesn't feature a whole lot of blitzes but most recently we've run Tampa 2 with Ron Meeks as defensive coordinator (might want to mark that name down if Fox is hired, since the Panthers retained no one from the coaching staff and he is out of work as well and will probably be one of Fox's first suggestions for assistants and coordinators). Before that it was a very complicated playbook based mostly on cover 3 zone that defensive players for the Panthers have said was hard to learn based on the sheer volume, but that was when Mike Trgovac was defensive coordinator. Also, Fox is a staunch 4-3 defensive coordinator so you might want to anticipate some serious changes to the defensive depth chart, unless Elway, Bowlen and Xanders have some parameter involving keeping the defense in the same base formation.

"Bend but don't break" is a great way to describe his style, passing wise. Panther defenses have always tended to give up short plays to avoid the long reception, but that becomes a problem if your facing teams like the Eagles. Anytime we played Philly their offense methodically picked apart our defense (with one notable exception: NFC Championship 2003) and that's mostly because they would open up the long pass with short passes. If you don't like that style, you might not be a fan of Fox. As far as run defense is concerned that's what Fox likes to do. "Run the ball, stop the run" is his credo and guideline that, at least in his mind wins games. 9 years ago that indeed rang true, but with so many people passing for at least 3500 yards like never before in this league, and teams tending more toward a passing philosophy in the last 5 years the league is much different than it used to be. For instance, two bottom ten rushing teams met each other in the Superbowl in 2008. That's not to say you don't need to do a better job stopping the run because one team was ranked worse than you guys in run defense last year, and if you're concerned you're going to like how he commits to stopping it.

Offense: Fox is a real meat and potatoes guy when it comes to offense. It doesn't get much simpler than the Panthers offense the last 9 years. The strategy, in a nutshell was this: Run up the middle to open up play action passing. For QBs in that system, if you attempt less than 25 passes and get 150-175 yards out of him, that mostly means you had a good day and the running game executed. For this reason Fox doesn't place much emphasis on franchise QBs, which is an important piece to have for every team in the league today. Running backs should have at least 30 carries combined. The Passing game is mostly vertical, and we ran an Air Coryell system with Dan Henning from 2002 to 2006. After the 2006 season Henning was fired and we replaced him with a Cleveland assistant named Jeff Davidson, who implemented an Erhardt-Perkins style offense, similar to what they run in New England and what McDaniels established when your team hired him. The Carolina version hasn't been QB friendly, and only Delhomme found just moderate success in that system. Besides 2008, our passing game has been absolutely atrocious and no matter who we put in we usually got the same result, whether it was vets or rookies.

Some misconceptions I've read about Fox on here. Don't blame the Front Office for Fox's failures in 2010. In Jerry's own words he called for the release of almost every aging vet on the team because that was the only way Fox would play the young players. This has been historically one of my biggest gripes with Fox. He'll play a veteran until the wheels fall off the wagon, if they don't want to retire Fox lets them start no matter how many steps they've lost. It happened with Delhomme, Rucker, Minter, Jeff Mitchell, DeShaun Foster, Stephen Davis, Muhsin Muhammad, Kris Mangum, etc. Foster's situation was a little different because he wasn't old, but battered by injuries, had limited vision and would almost line dance behind the line of scrimmage for far too long after a handoff. Despite all of this, and the fact that we had a much more capable RB in DeAngelo Williams behind him, Fox kept him as the starter. Also, it should be worth noting that in 2009 with most of the vets and starters from the 2008 team retained, the Panthers started 4-7 and the more vets that fell and got injured, the more someone fresh came in and outplayed them. With plenty of vets on IR and most of them replaced by younger guys we finished 4-1. Also for years our GM and scouting department filled the rosters with an acceptable level of talent (most notably 2006, after an NFC Championship appearance, when we went on our biggest free agency expenditure of the Fox era and had a good draft, and went 8-8 that year.)

Fire/Intensity: Fox has been a stoic figurehead for the Panthers. Don't expect a lot of explanation after a loss; he says a whole lot of nothing in post game press conferences. When it comes to players, he's no disciplinarian. Very often you'll see him on the sideline clapping after even obvious bad plays. I understand you want to encourage your players constantly, but it happened at a level here which was almost unbearable to watch. Some people like to call him a "player's coach", but I'd call him more of a pushover. Not to sound rude about it, but he always struck me as passive.

Consistency: This is something Fox NEVER brought to the Carolinas. We were always up and down, and excuses came from all different directions. It happened for so long I personally think this is one thing I am sure he is incapable of, so if you're looking to make the playoffs every year, don't expect it. If you have him for 5 years, I'll say it's likely you get one playoff berth, maybe 2, but not back to back.

Quips/Foxisms

Get used to these phrases if he is your new coach:

"It is what it is"

"The other team practices too"

"a punt is not necessarily a bad play"

and my personal favorite,

"I like to break down the regular season into 4 quarters, and make it a goal to go 3-1 each quarter. That equates to a 12-4 record at the end of the year"

^Listen I understand 75% winning efficiency is hard to get in this league, but it's still 75%. I'd rather someone not feed me that nonsense and simply tell me we try to win each and every game we play.

Is he right for the Broncos?

In all honesty, if I was a Broncos fan and knew everything about Fox that I do as a Panthers fan, no, I don't think he is right, even if he is a defensive coach. There are plenty of other defensive options to go if that's your desire. Even if you want a retread Head Coach you could give Bill Cowher a call. Is he going to try to make you a more physical, better running team? Yea he will try. It's likely you become an inconsistent also-ran, it's less likely you make the playoffs consistently and it's much less likely he makes Denver into a dynasty, nearly impossible even. I just don't think his formula sets him up for success in today's league.

TXBRONC
01-12-2011, 10:01 PM
Stolen from another board...

____________________

Hey Guys

Since I started watching football I've been a Panthers fan, and a lot of that is covered by John Fox's tenure at head coach. So for some reason I feel like I should tell you exactly what he's all about and what you can expect from him, since your team's organizational constituency has been courting him for the last week. Keep in mind I understand this is the way he ran things in Charlotte, and things may be different in Denver since your Front Office is a little less patient, and I understand the culture is different than the mostly lax environment the Carolinas have been until recently. I guess I'll start with offense/defense.

Defense: Since Fox is a defensive head coach I'll start here. Fox is not aggressive as a coach in any particular way, at least he wasn't when he was in Carolina. His defense doesn't feature a whole lot of blitzes but most recently we've run Tampa 2 with Ron Meeks as defensive coordinator (might want to mark that name down if Fox is hired, since the Panthers retained no one from the coaching staff and he is out of work as well and will probably be one of Fox's first suggestions for assistants and coordinators). Before that it was a very complicated playbook based mostly on cover 3 zone that defensive players for the Panthers have said was hard to learn based on the sheer volume, but that was when Mike Trgovac was defensive coordinator. Also, Fox is a staunch 4-3 defensive coordinator so you might want to anticipate some serious changes to the defensive depth chart, unless Elway, Bowlen and Xanders have some parameter involving keeping the defense in the same base formation.

"Bend but don't break" is a great way to describe his style, passing wise. Panther defenses have always tended to give up short plays to avoid the long reception, but that becomes a problem if your facing teams like the Eagles. Anytime we played Philly their offense methodically picked apart our defense (with one notable exception: NFC Championship 2003) and that's mostly because they would open up the long pass with short passes. If you don't like that style, you might not be a fan of Fox. As far as run defense is concerned that's what Fox likes to do. "Run the ball, stop the run" is his credo and guideline that, at least in his mind wins games. 9 years ago that indeed rang true, but with so many people passing for at least 3500 yards like never before in this league, and teams tending more toward a passing philosophy in the last 5 years the league is much different than it used to be. For instance, two bottom ten rushing teams met each other in the Superbowl in 2008. That's not to say you don't need to do a better job stopping the run because one team was ranked worse than you guys in run defense last year, and if you're concerned you're going to like how he commits to stopping it.

Offense: Fox is a real meat and potatoes guy when it comes to offense. It doesn't get much simpler than the Panthers offense the last 9 years. The strategy, in a nutshell was this: Run up the middle to open up play action passing. For QBs in that system, if you attempt less than 25 passes and get 150-175 yards out of him, that mostly means you had a good day and the running game executed. For this reason Fox doesn't place much emphasis on franchise QBs, which is an important piece to have for every team in the league today. Running backs should have at least 30 carries combined. The Passing game is mostly vertical, and we ran an Air Coryell system with Dan Henning from 2002 to 2006. After the 2006 season Henning was fired and we replaced him with a Cleveland assistant named Jeff Davidson, who implemented an Erhardt-Perkins style offense, similar to what they run in New England and what McDaniels established when your team hired him. The Carolina version hasn't been QB friendly, and only Delhomme found just moderate success in that system. Besides 2008, our passing game has been absolutely atrocious and no matter who we put in we usually got the same result, whether it was vets or rookies.

Some misconceptions I've read about Fox on here. Don't blame the Front Office for Fox's failures in 2010. In Jerry's own words he called for the release of almost every aging vet on the team because that was the only way Fox would play the young players. This has been historically one of my biggest gripes with Fox. He'll play a veteran until the wheels fall off the wagon, if they don't want to retire Fox lets them start no matter how many steps they've lost. It happened with Delhomme, Rucker, Minter, Jeff Mitchell, DeShaun Foster, Stephen Davis, Muhsin Muhammad, Kris Mangum, etc. Foster's situation was a little different because he wasn't old, but battered by injuries, had limited vision and would almost line dance behind the line of scrimmage for far too long after a handoff. Despite all of this, and the fact that we had a much more capable RB in DeAngelo Williams behind him, Fox kept him as the starter. Also, it should be worth noting that in 2009 with most of the vets and starters from the 2008 team retained, the Panthers started 4-7 and the more vets that fell and got injured, the more someone fresh came in and outplayed them. With plenty of vets on IR and most of them replaced by younger guys we finished 4-1. Also for years our GM and scouting department filled the rosters with an acceptable level of talent (most notably 2006, after an NFC Championship appearance, when we went on our biggest free agency expenditure of the Fox era and had a good draft, and went 8-8 that year.)

Fire/Intensity: Fox has been a stoic figurehead for the Panthers. Don't expect a lot of explanation after a loss; he says a whole lot of nothing in post game press conferences. When it comes to players, he's no disciplinarian. Very often you'll see him on the sideline clapping after even obvious bad plays. I understand you want to encourage your players constantly, but it happened at a level here which was almost unbearable to watch. Some people like to call him a "player's coach", but I'd call him more of a pushover. Not to sound rude about it, but he always struck me as passive.

Consistency: This is something Fox NEVER brought to the Carolinas. We were always up and down, and excuses came from all different directions. It happened for so long I personally think this is one thing I am sure he is incapable of, so if you're looking to make the playoffs every year, don't expect it. If you have him for 5 years, I'll say it's likely you get one playoff berth, maybe 2, but not back to back.

Quips/Foxisms

Get used to these phrases if he is your new coach:

"It is what it is"

"The other team practices too"

"a punt is not necessarily a bad play"

and my personal favorite,

"I like to break down the regular season into 4 quarters, and make it a goal to go 3-1 each quarter. That equates to a 12-4 record at the end of the year"

^Listen I understand 75% winning efficiency is hard to get in this league, but it's still 75%. I'd rather someone not feed me that nonsense and simply tell me we try to win each and every game we play.

Is he right for the Broncos?

In all honesty, if I was a Broncos fan and knew everything about Fox that I do as a Panthers fan, no, I don't think he is right, even if he is a defensive coach. There are plenty of other defensive options to go if that's your desire. Even if you want a retread Head Coach you could give Bill Cowher a call. Is he going to try to make you a more physical, better running team? Yea he will try. It's likely you become an inconsistent also-ran, it's less likely you make the playoffs consistently and it's much less likely he makes Denver into a dynasty, nearly impossible even. I just don't think his formula sets him up for success in today's league.

I don't think he's the right fit. I certainly don't want a guy who believes that old worn out veterans are the way to go. It sounds like Fox is the second coming of George Allen.

OrangeHoof
01-12-2011, 10:32 PM
IMO, Fox is a fine fit. You may think running the ball is boring but becoming dominant at running the ball is the best thing in the football world. When you can run a ball down somebody's throat, it's like "game over". Your defense gets a lot better. Your passing game becomes more effective.

Look at the teams that get to the playoffs consistently and you'll find most of them have a solid running attack with multiple backs sharing the load. Most passing teams come and go.

If Fox isn't a good fit, then Fewell is the next guy on my list simply because of how good the Giants' defense is.

But Fox has the HC experience and the defensive background and that's exactly what the Broncos desperately need. The last thing we need is another OC with no/limited HC experience. Surely, we've learned that lesson lately.

OrangeHoof
01-12-2011, 10:35 PM
Since I started watching football I've been a Panthers fan

Another way of saying, "I've only been following the NFL for 15 years..."

TXBRONC
01-12-2011, 10:37 PM
IMO, Fox is a fine fit. You may think running the ball is boring but becoming dominant at running the ball is the best thing in the football world. When you can run a ball down somebody's throat, it's like "game over". Your defense gets a lot better. Your passing game becomes more effective.

Look at the teams that get to the playoffs consistently and you'll find most of them have a solid running attack with multiple backs sharing the load. Most passing teams come and go.

If Fox isn't a good fit, then Fewell is the next guy on my list simply because of how good the Giants' defense is.

But Fox has the HC experience and the defensive background and that's exactly what the Broncos desperately need. The last thing we need is another OC with no/limited HC experience. Surely, we've learned that lesson lately.

I have no problem with concept of running ball. Even in today's NFL with wide open passing attacks running the ball is important. What is troubling to me is that he doesn't seem to embrace any kind of youth movement.

OrangeHoof
01-12-2011, 10:43 PM
McD took care of that. We have a fairly young team on offense. It's the defense that needs to get younger and more talented. Who better than a coach like Fox to build one around?

And who was the coach that made an offense QB'd by the very ordinary Jake Delhomme a success? If he could do that with Delhomme, imagine what he could do with Tebow?

rcsodak
01-12-2011, 11:37 PM
You have to understand WHY it's not going to happen: Gruden, Cower, and all the BIG name coaches would want not only about $7 million a year to come back from their comfortable lifestyle as TV analysts, they would also want TOTAL CONTROL over player personnel!

And that's the one thing that Elway absolutely CANNOT offer. Nor SHOULD he! Not after the disaster that was Hurricane McDaniels. :coffee:

So, fuget-about-it. :coffee:

I like what Madden said on Sirius, today.

Let the coaches coach, and the suits, suit. *lol*

He did say, though, that a coach SHOULD have a say on personnel. If they're going to need 8 LB's, then that means less cb's....9Dlinemen, thenless Olinemen, etc. The coach SHOULD have a say on the players, 51-61.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2011, 11:40 PM
From what I've seen from Panther fans opinions on John Fox, they are 50/50. Those that like the Rivera hire are happy Fox is gone, the other half think they're going to miss Fox and are unhappy about him leaving.

About what I'd expect.

Lancane
01-12-2011, 11:43 PM
From what I've seen from Panther fans opinions on John Fox, they are 50/50. Those that like the Rivera hire are happy Fox is gone, the other half think they're going to miss Fox and are unhappy about him leaving.

About what I'd expect.

About how we are split that he's a bad or good choice for Denver.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2011, 11:48 PM
About how we are split that he's a bad or good choice for Denver.

Yep. :beer: We both just want what's best. We just can't seem to agree what that is...

Lancane
01-13-2011, 12:19 AM
Yep. :beer: We both just want what's best. We just can't seem to agree what that is...

Well, I wouldn't say that we don't agree on what that is...we just disagree on who is the better fit as the head coach. I've openly stated that I'd be fine with a defensive minded head coach, I would be happy if it had been Rivera, I'd be fine if it was Rob Ryan, Mike Zimmer, Sean McDermott or even Mike Nolan, but I don't like the conservativeness of John Fox, he's been a mediocre coach overall, he's too involved with all the aspects of his coordinators, a problem we had with McDaniels as well. Let alone that his offensive conservativeness could hinder Tebow, we should not fix the defense at the cost of our offense, we do need to improve in the run game, but do we ruin what we could have for what we do not? Didn't that hurt McDaniels in Denver as well?

I'm a very defensive minded person HP, I have always been that way. So when I'm so iffy about a candidate, it scares any optimism away. We need balance, I've always felt that it is the way to remain a continual competitive team long-term in the NFL, hell...in football in general. Fox is to inept as a well rounded candidate for me to support him. Heck, you know how I was down on Fewell, but I would rather hire him then Fox. Are we interviewing the best candidates offensively? No, we are not looking at Schottenheimer, Philbin, Morninwheg, Carmichael or a number of others that are more impressive then those we are looking at, but when I add up the differences, their comfort zones and what they bring overall, Dennison is the best choice IMHO, without a doubt.

red98
01-13-2011, 01:37 AM
"I like to break down the regular season into 4 quarters, and make it a goal to go 3-1 each quarter. That equates to a 12-4 record at the end of the year"


Holy crap! He stole that exact quote from Jim Fassel.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-13-2011, 08:57 AM
Well, I wouldn't say that we don't agree on what that is...we just disagree on who is the better fit as the head coach. I've openly stated that I'd be fine with a defensive minded head coach, I would be happy if it had been Rivera, I'd be fine if it was Rob Ryan, Mike Zimmer, Sean McDermott or even Mike Nolan, but I don't like the conservativeness of John Fox, he's been a mediocre coach overall, he's too involved with all the aspects of his coordinators, a problem we had with McDaniels as well. Let alone that his offensive conservativeness could hinder Tebow, we should not fix the defense at the cost of our offense, we do need to improve in the run game, but do we ruin what we could have for what we do not? Didn't that hurt McDaniels in Denver as well?

I'm a very defensive minded person HP, I have always been that way. So when I'm so iffy about a candidate, it scares any optimism away. We need balance, I've always felt that it is the way to remain a continual competitive team long-term in the NFL, hell...in football in general. Fox is to inept as a well rounded candidate for me to support him. Heck, you know how I was down on Fewell, but I would rather hire him then Fox. Are we interviewing the best candidates offensively? No, we are not looking at Schottenheimer, Philbin, Morninwheg, Carmichael or a number of others that are more impressive then those we are looking at, but when I add up the differences, their comfort zones and what they bring overall, Dennison is the best choice IMHO, without a doubt.

I understand where you're coming from. I know the reasons that people like Dennison and think he's the best fit right now. I just have serious doubts about Rico. He's the only guy we've interviewed who has never been the HC in any capacity. His closeness with the organization and history here set him up to be the guy most likely to be taken advantage of by the current FO. He's the guy most likely to be easily molded by management into a yes-man, do-boy than the others.

Most of all, he's been here before which to me, is taking a step backward in an attempt to move forward. I would feel the same way if we interviewed another McDaniels or Bellicheat guy...

TXBRONC
01-13-2011, 10:54 AM
McD took care of that. We have a fairly young team on offense. It's the defense that needs to get younger and more talented. Who better than a coach like Fox to build one around?

And who was the coach that made an offense QB'd by the very ordinary Jake Delhomme a success? If he could do that with Delhomme, imagine what he could do with Tebow?

OH Dan Reeves had a very similar mentality with Elway. We got to more Super Bowls than Carolina but the end result was still the same other than the margin by which we were beat.

OrangeHoof
01-13-2011, 02:11 PM
The difference is that Reeves never had a great running game to give to Elway or Elway would have been just fine handing off the ball. Winder was decent but he certainly was no Eric Dickerson or Earl Campbell. Had the Broncos had that sort of running game, Elway would have been fine with throwing less.

oubronco
01-13-2011, 02:24 PM
Borrrrrrrrrrrrrrring. You'll come to realize if you choose Fox as your HC that he is quite possible the most boring person in the world. He hates interviews and just spouts off phrases that say nothing. He doesn't really show much passion or fire when coaching. You may wonder if he has a pulse from time to time. That also runs through his philosophy on running a team. Again, his schemes are very vanilla. He doesn't want to take risks. He won't want to bring in high profile names or make many bold moves in general. Sometimes as a football fan you just want some excitement around your team-well kiss that goodbye if you take Fox. It will frustrate your fans to no end, especially if you aren't doing well.


If this is true i'm not sure I want him to be coach

Lancane
01-13-2011, 02:38 PM
The difference is that Reeves never had a great running game to give to Elway or Elway would have been just fine handing off the ball. Winder was decent but he certainly was no Eric Dickerson or Earl Campbell. Had the Broncos had that sort of running game, Elway would have been fine with throwing less.

During Reeves tenure we always had a solid running game, not great. And let's be honest, this is a pass happy league, you can not stunt the passing game in order for a better rushing offense...it doesn't work, ask anyone. Only two of the top ten rushing offenses are even in the playoffs, the New York Jets and the New England Patriots, and both teams still have a solid passing offenses with a franchise-esque quarterback at the helm. It still points to a need to have balance, offensively and defensively and that is something Fox can not seem to do and he's proven it, time and time again.

We need to improve in the run game, but we don't need to have the best, and we need to improve defensively and again, it doesn't have to be great, just solid and above average. And we need Tebow to develop into a more pocket present quarterback, something that will not happen if we hire a conservative run heavy, defensive minded coach. We need balance all the way around or we won't get very far in the current structure of the NFL.

BroncoStud
01-13-2011, 02:43 PM
Mr. Elway, just say NO to Fox.

TXBRONC
01-13-2011, 03:44 PM
The difference is that Reeves never had a great running game to give to Elway or Elway would have been just fine handing off the ball. Winder was decent but he certainly was no Eric Dickerson or Earl Campbell. Had the Broncos had that sort of running game, Elway would have been fine with throwing less.

That's true but the end result was still the same.

Lonestar
01-13-2011, 11:49 PM
Mr. Elway, just say NO to Fox.


I do not think he heard you..

OrangeHoof
01-14-2011, 12:55 AM
It still points to a need to have balance, offensively and defensively and that is something Fox can not seem to do and he's proven it, time and time again.


Remind me again, how many times did the Panthers make the playoffs under Fox? And how many times in the past decade have WE made the playoffs with our offensive geniuses as head coach?

Ever heard of Steve Smith? If the Panthers were as pass-deficient as you imply, nobody would know who that is - or think he's a back-up for the Giants. Smith's had an excellent career in Carolina when he's been healthy.

Lancane
01-14-2011, 01:08 AM
Remind me again, how many times did the Panthers make the playoffs under Fox? And how many times in the past decade have WE made the playoffs with our offensive geniuses as head coach?

Ever heard of Steve Smith? If the Panthers were as pass-deficient as you imply, nobody would know who that is - or think he's a back-up for the Giants. Smith's had an excellent career in Carolina when he's been healthy.

I'm not arguing anymore Hoof, I am going to give him a chance. I do worry that he's too conservative, that and let's be honest, he's never had to develop a raw quarterback into a prolific NFL quarterback, and I could judge him because what we saw this year with Clausen being so horrid, but I'm not going to...but he's never had a raw, talented quarterback that he's developed. Again though, that will have a lot to do with the offensive staff he hires. So I'm going to take a wait and see approach for now, let's just hope he can build the team into a solid, balanced team unlike what he couldn't do in Carolina.

Bosco
01-14-2011, 04:31 AM
I'm not arguing anymore Hoof, I am going to give him a chance. I do worry that he's too conservative, that and let's be honest, he's never had to develop a raw quarterback into a prolific NFL quarterback, and I could judge him because what we saw this year with Clausen being so horrid, but I'm not going to...but he's never had a raw, talented quarterback that he's developed. Again though, that will have a lot to do with the offensive staff he hires. So I'm going to take a wait and see approach for now, let's just hope he can build the team into a solid, balanced team unlike what he couldn't do in Carolina.

If retains Mike McCoy or hires some other dumb****, conservative, run happy offensive coordinator, I'm flying up to Denver and we're going on hunger strike outside Dove Valley.

dogfish
01-14-2011, 04:44 AM
If retains Mike McCoy or hires some other dumb****, conservative, run happy offensive coordinator, I'm flying up to Denver and we're going on hunger strike outside Dove Valley.

okay, seriously. . . you really want tebow winging it 40+ times per game his first couple of years as a starter?

with a rookie tackle protecting his blindside the first year, as likely as not?


mccoy doesn't excite me either, but at least he's a former QB coach who worked with tim this year. . . let the kid have some continuity, and bring him along in a run-first offense while fox and co. try to build the defense. . .

besides, isn't mccoy an E-P guy? i thought he was. . . no reason they can't incorporate some spread looks that tebow will be familiar with. . . i know fox and mccoy were conservative in carolina, and do expect them to be here as well-- at least initially. . .

that doesn't automatically mean they're idiots, though. . .

if we can build the O-line/running game (a solid OL coach is a good start, and i'm sure fox will ask for another RB), and just get back to respectable on defense, let them bring tim along at his own pace-- open up the playbook gradually. . .

if it's not working that way, fire mccoy in a couple of years and bring in someone more dynamic. . .

these guys may well be a transitional staff, and given that fox brought carolina around, and they got the most out of a poor QB like delhomme, i think we could have done a lot worse. . . not that i wouldn't prefer somebody else to mccoy, but if he came as a package deal with the best HC option we were presented, i can live with tebow's previous token OC as opposed to some random scrub. . .

Bosco
01-14-2011, 05:04 AM
okay, seriously. . . you really want tebow winging it 40+ times per game his first couple of years as a starter? Why not? Obviously 40+ is a hyperbolic number but Tebow showed me that he's definitely a capable passer in the NFL. Give him another offseason of refinement and learning and let it rip.


with a rookie tackle protecting his blindside the first year, as likely as not? Where do you come up with that?


mccoy doesn't excite me either, but at least he's a former QB coach who worked with tim this year. . . let the kid have some continuity, and bring him along in a run-first offense while fox and co. try to build the defense. . No thanks. McCoy lost my confidence with his poor performance last year.


besides, isn't mccoy an E-P guy? i thought he was. . . He is, more or less. Obviously he's not real good at it though.


no reason they can't incorporate some spread looks that tebow will be familiar with. . . He SHOULD have done that last year, with Josh's offense. He should have had Tebow playing almost exclusively in 3, 4 and 5 wide sets where he could make a few reads and either throw the ball or take off and run over defensive backs on his way to a first down. McCoy, in all his infinite wisdom, decided to get cute and run a bunch of 12 and 21 personnel groupings.


i know fox and mccoy were conservative in carolina, and do expect them to be here as well-- at least initially. . .

that doesn't automatically mean they're idiots, though. . . I'd argue that anyone running a conservative offense with Tim Tebow and our abundance of talented receivers is, in fact, an idiot.


if we can build the O-line/running game (a solid OL coach is a good start, and i'm sure fox will ask for another RB), and just get back to respectable on defense, let them bring tim along at his own pace-- open up the playbook gradually. . .

if it's not working that way, fire mccoy in a couple of years and bring in someone more dynamic. . .

these guys may well be a transitional staff, and given that fox brought carolina around, and they got the most out of a poor QB like delhomme, i think we could have done a lot worse. . . not that i wouldn't prefer somebody else to mccoy, but if he came as a package deal with the best HC option we were presented, i can live with tebow's previous token OC as opposed to some random scrub. . .

I wish I had your optimism.

TXBRONC
01-14-2011, 09:57 AM
Holy crap! He stole that exact quote from Jim Fassel.

How do you know Fassel didn't steal it from him? :suspicious:

TXBRONC
01-14-2011, 10:14 AM
If retains Mike McCoy or hires some other dumb****, conservative, run happy offensive coordinator, I'm flying up to Denver and we're going on hunger strike outside Dove Valley.

I'm not sure hurting yourself will get you much sympathy out Dove Valley but ok. :D

You might as get used it McCoy is probably going to stay. I also agree full heartedly with Dog that with a young quarterback it's a good idea to have continuity in the coaching staff. Also having a strong running game is one of a young quarterback's three best friends the other being solid tight end who can do more than just block and solid defense. In other words Tebow isn't to throw the ball all around 30 or times on a consistent basis.

red98
01-14-2011, 10:36 AM
How do you know Fassel didn't steal it from him? :suspicious:

lol! It was back when Fox was working under him for the Giants. It was Fassel's
big thing. The NY press lapped it up too, like it was some sage philosophy.

Either way "it is what it is"

HORSEPOWER 56
01-14-2011, 11:08 AM
Why not? Obviously 40+ is a hyperbolic number but Tebow showed me that he's definitely a capable passer in the NFL. Give him another offseason of refinement and learning and let it rip.

If your name isn't Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, or Peyton Manning, you shouldn't be throwing the ball over 30 times a game. The best way to keep a QB effective is to limit his throws and back him with a strong running game. There's a reason that Rapeslesburger is looked at as "elite" and it's not because he throws it 40 times a game.


Where do you come up with that?

There was an article posted about a week ago saying the Broncos wouldn't be extending Ryan Harris' contract so it appears we're out a RT.


No thanks. McCoy lost my confidence with his poor performance last year

The poor performance of the last 3 games with a rookie QB where we scored over 20 points in three consecutive games for the first time all season?


He SHOULD have done that last year, with Josh's offense. He should have had Tebow playing almost exclusively in 3, 4 and 5 wide sets where he could make a few reads and either throw the ball or take off and run over defensive backs on his way to a first down. McCoy, in all his infinite wisdom, decided to get cute and run a bunch of 12 and 21 personnel groupings.

It's pretty obvious that they were trying to make the reads easy for a rookie QB in that if his first wasn't there, he could just take off and run. As everyone saw, the playcalling got a lot better as the games went on and Tebow got more experience. You could also see him pull back the reigns a little after Tebow threw that awful pick on the 1st drive vs Houston and again vs the Chargers. The best way to protect a rookie QB is to run the ball. Every HC in the league will tell you that.


I'd argue that anyone running a conservative offense with Tim Tebow and our abundance of talented receivers is, in fact, an idiot.

I'd argue that you aren't a coach and really have no experience in player development. Tebow had minimal snaps before he started, a surprising little amount according to Elway himself. They eased Tebow into games that had ZERO worth except getting Tim and other backups some reps and scouting for next season. Just letting Tebow drop back and chuck it 50 yards every play would've proven nothing. They were seeing if he could run the offense and what he was good at and what he wasn't. Hell, first they had to make sure the guy could properly receive a Center/QB exchange and hand it off to the RB with his back to the defense!


I wish I had your optimism.

It's not that hard. If you realize we're not Superbowl bound (which I've known since mcDaniels was hired) but likely to improve on the 4-12 we are, it's easy to at least be a little positive...

TXBRONC
01-14-2011, 11:41 AM
If your name isn't Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, or Peyton Manning, you shouldn't be throwing the ball over 30 times a game. The best way to keep a QB effective is to limit his throws and back him with a strong running game. There's a reason that Rapeslesburger is looked at as "elite" and it's not because he throws it 40 times a game.



There was an article posted about a week ago saying the Broncos wouldn't be extending Ryan Harris' contract so it appears we're out a RT.



The poor performance of the last 3 games with a rookie QB where we scored over 20 points in three consecutive games for the first time all season?



It's pretty obvious that they were trying to make the reads easy for a rookie QB in that if his first wasn't there, he could just take off and run. As everyone saw, the playcalling got a lot better as the games went on and Tebow got more experience. You could also see him pull back the reigns a little after Tebow threw that awful pick on the 1st drive vs Houston and again vs the Chargers. The best way to protect a rookie QB is to run the ball. Every HC in the league will tell you that.



I'd argue that you aren't a coach and really have no experience in player development. Tebow had minimal snaps before he started, a surprising little amount according to Elway himself. They eased Tebow into games that had ZERO worth except getting Tim and other backups some reps and scouting for next season. Just letting Tebow drop back and chuck it 50 yards every play would've proven nothing. They were seeing if he could run the offense and what he was good at and what he wasn't. Hell, first they had to make sure the guy could properly receive a Center/QB exchange and hand it off to the RB with his back to the defense!



It's not that hard. If you realize we're not Superbowl bound (which I've known since mcDaniels was hired) but likely to improve on the 4-12 we are, it's easy to at least be a little positive...

The day may come (hopefully) when Tebow can be counted on to carry the offense by throwing the ball but today is not that day.

PAINTERDAVE
01-14-2011, 12:27 PM
I saw that Harris article...
but with the CBA un determined...
who knows?

It might be that Fox tells 'em...
"hey.. we need this guy. Sign him."

This is a strange year for player personel moves...

not sure what to expect.

broncobryce
01-15-2011, 02:59 AM
Fox is boring in interviews? Personally I couldn't care less. If I want stand up comedy I will switch to comedy central. As long as he is a good coach (which he is) I do not need to be entertained after by him during press conferences.
I hope he does keep Mccoy, and he already said Denver has the best set of WR he has had, so possibly he will be a little more open to some throws.

What's funny to me is people bitched when our last coach passed a lot, and now they are bitching when we get a coach who wants to run a lot.
I guess they should just hand the playcalling over to you?
Since some of you act like you are smarter than these NFL coaches.

TXBRONC
01-15-2011, 08:57 AM
Fox is boring in interviews? Personally I couldn't care less. If I want stand up comedy I will switch to comedy central. As long as he is a good coach (which he is) I do not need to be entertained after by him during press conferences.
I hope he does keep Mccoy, and he already said Denver has the best set of WR he has had, so possibly he will be a little more open to some throws.

What's funny to me is people bitched when our last coach passed a lot, and now they are bitching when we get a coach who wants to run a lot.
I guess they should just hand the playcalling over to you?
Since some of you act like you are smarter than these NFL coaches.

As Fox said he has gotten criticized for being a "three yards and cloud of dust" kind of coach but I pretty sure also realizes that you need a good balance between run and pass.

gobroncsnv
01-15-2011, 11:52 AM
Hoping we have a team like the one that got us a couple of Lombardi's a few years back... Equally good at throwing or running. Have the talent that is able to do either on any given play... Complete lack of a running game was what we saw this year. Complete lack of a passing game was what I had to endure when I was a Rams fan during the Ground Chuck years. The offense-side "genius" of Shanahan was nothing more than pure balance, being completely ambidextrous to do either equally well (when he had the players to pull it off)...
By the same token, need to have solid balance with the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. Feels like the past (far too many years), our philosophy is that defense is "what the other team plays"... We GOTTA get over that.