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BroncoJoe
01-11-2011, 11:39 AM
Just heard that on Mike and Mike. I don't doubt them, but I'd never heard that. Also found it interesting that until a new CBA is in place, teams can trade draft picks, but there can't be any player movement. So much for getting picks this year for Orton...

Also found it interesting the said they'd rather have Orton than any other "available" QB out there - including Kolb.

jlarsiii
01-11-2011, 11:56 AM
Meh. . .

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to keep Orton around in case Timmy gets injured during the season (which is a real possibility considering the way he plays).

Ravage!!!
01-11-2011, 11:57 AM
Orton will not be on the Denver Broncos in 2011.

BroncoJoe
01-11-2011, 11:57 AM
Meh. . .

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to keep Orton around in case Timmy gets injured during the season (which is a real possibility considering the way he plays).

I'll preface this by saying I like Orton.

However, keeping him in a secondary role @ QB would be a mistake. Based on his recent comments and body language during the last two-three games, he could very well become a cancer.

slim
01-11-2011, 12:03 PM
I'll preface this by saying I like Orton.

However, keeping him in a secondary role @ QB would be a mistake. Based on his recent comments and body language during the last two-three games, he could very well become a cancer.

I agree.

It has been mentioned several times (I think by Woody Paige) that Orton has taken an extremely unprofessional tact in dealing with Tebow....laughing at him for his approach to practice/training, refusing to offer advice or even really communicate with Tim. Now, I don’t know how much of that is true, but I would suspect there is at least some truth to it.

Bottom line, this news really sucks. Because he won’t be on the roster next year (even if that means they cut him).

jlarsiii
01-11-2011, 12:07 PM
I'll preface this by saying I like Orton.

However, keeping him in a secondary role @ QB would be a mistake. Based on his recent comments and body language during the last two-three games, he could very well become a cancer.

It is true that if he stays he could very well become a cancer. I too would like to see him traded for decent compensation, but it may not happen without a new cba.

I hope that if he stays that he will see an opportunity to compete with a new staff coming in. IIRC he has stated in the past that he is not afraid to compete for a job, and if he holds true to that then hopefully he won't become a cancer and he will push Timmy to be even better. After all it appears that Tebow thrives off of that sort of thing. . .

I Eat Staples
01-11-2011, 12:28 PM
I would hate to cut a player that we could probably get at least a 3rd round pick for. That would suck.

broken12
01-11-2011, 12:49 PM
Ya I think I heard something on koa once were a sheffter said tades would be done but they wouldn't be approved till cbs was in place so trades for draft pics wouldn't get pics till 2012 or something like that so all trades would be for future pics....

Lancane
01-11-2011, 03:04 PM
There will be no football in 2011 without a new CBA, there can be no player trades till a new CBA is in place. The deadline for the lockout is actually the final day of the NFL Combine, the last thing we may see before a new CBA is reached is maybe the NFL Draft.

The NFL is going to take a big hit if it doesn't get a new deal done here soon, as Tony Dungy said in that scenario both sides lose. Who are the players going to go play for the UFL? Why don't they go ask what those in the UFL are making in a season, they'll probably jump at the chance to get back in the NFL, the owners take a hit because it could send or turn fans away from the league and into the arms of other football leagues, such as the CFL or UFL, some may turn to hockey or become more enthralled with collegiate football.

I hope the looming fact get's both sides' asses moving to get something done.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-11-2011, 03:50 PM
There will be no football in 2011 without a new CBA, there can be no player trades till a new CBA is in place. The deadline for the lockout is actually the final day of the NFL Combine, the last thing we may see before a new CBA is reached is maybe the NFL Draft.

The NFL is going to take a big hit if it doesn't get a new deal done here soon, as Tony Dungy said in that scenario both sides lose. Who are the players going to go play for the UFL? Why don't they go ask what those in the UFL are making in a season, they'll probably jump at the chance to get back in the NFL, the owners take a hit because it could send or turn fans away from the league and into the arms of other football leagues, such as the CFL or UFL, some may turn to hockey or become more enthralled with collegiate football.

I hope the looming fact get's both sides' asses moving to get something done.

Exactly. The new CBA will have to be done before really anyone will be traded anyway, and long before the draft. The draft will happen even without a CBA, but it won't matter because there won't be much of a following season if there's no CBA and none of the rookies will be "signed", the teams will just own their rights. I hope all this shit gets worked out. I'll go batshit crazy without football for a year.

WARHORSE
01-11-2011, 04:22 PM
Conerning the Orton talk.....



Lets not forget the new HC is gonna have a say in this. I dont know what the parameters for interview process is for the Broncos, but that has something to do with it Im sure.

If Denver says, "We want to play Tebow and bring him along....are you willing to do that?", then its either a yes or no.

But if theyre simply saying, "What do you envision in Denver?", then it may be that the new coach wants Orton to stay.


If the Broncos receive an offer of a 1st round pick, Im pretty sure they hit the eject button on Kyles seat right away.

I think sometimes our view of Broncos play can be jaded just because of who we are........(da bess).........and Kyle Ortons play has opened eyes.

He looked like a different QB out there this year. No, he cannot improvise with any more success than a slug running from a hungry rodent, but he was very decisive, and performed well.

If youre a GM or a HC on another team without a QB, you look at Kyles past year and say, wow.....he had no running game whatsoever.....if Kyle were here, we would do this....we would do that.

Minnesota.........Miami........San Fran..........Arizona.............Oakland......... .Buffalo............Washington

Take a look at Ortons gamelogs, and its easy to see why Orton is desirable.

Other than the last two games where he was injured.....he has a great deal of 'tape' as he says, on his game ability.

He would make a huge difference.....in which of those teams above?

Those with a good running game and an offensive line....which would be Oakland....Miami......San Fran.....as the top three imo.

Vernon Davis said he'd love to have Kyle Orton.

If Mike and Mike, who have nothing to gain, said they would rather have Orton than Kevin Kolb, who Philly is reportedly asking for two firsts for, then that tells you he has value.


No one would be happier than me if we got a some great value for Orton.

Its about time we got some good news in our favor on the player front.:coffee:

WARHORSE
01-11-2011, 04:50 PM
BTW.......listening to Baalke from San Fran in an interview....he said that the QB of the future is not currently on the roster, and that WILL change. He said the number one area in need of help is execution at the QB position.

He said it was obvious that they would look at the draft and the prospects available, but trading for a QB was also something they were looking at.

I dont know. Just the way he said it seemed to make me think that a trade was something they were investigating pretty hard right now.


Cam Newton

Ryan Mallet

Blaine Gabbert


None of these guys are going to come in and take the Niners to the next level.
Newton has the most ability, and Im sure by the time the draft rolls around someone will have him in their crosshairs.

Problem is, there are a number of teams that can take him as well.....starting at the top of the order with Carolina, and on to Buffalo, Arizona, etc.

Either way, there arent enough QBs to go around, and if Orton is being hung on a string......there will be a patron for his services.

If Elway and the boys are smart, they start talking more about Orton than Tebow.

Such as, Mr. Elway, will the new HC be required to start Tim Tebow?

"Tim is a fine young player, but has anyone forgotten the competition we have at the QB position in Denver? Kyle Orton had an outstanding season this year up until the time he was injured, and Kyle of course has not stopped viewing himself as the starter. If anyone here knows Kyle, Kyle will be determined to have Tim holding a clipboard on the sidelines on sundays next year in Denver, and we have every intention of playing the best player at that position next year. Once Kyle was injured and we were eliminated from playoff contention, it was our choice to not put Kyle in harms way the rest of the season while taking a look at Tim, and giving him some well needed experience. This was in the best interest of the Denver Broncos."


Start letting people know now that we arent interested in trading Kyle.(wink wink)

I Eat Staples
01-11-2011, 04:57 PM
I'd rather have Orton than Tebow.

vandammage13
01-11-2011, 05:18 PM
I'd rather have Orton than Tebow.

I question anyone who would think that....then again, you do eat staples.

I Eat Staples
01-11-2011, 05:22 PM
I question anyone who would think that....then again, you do eat staples.

The most popular player on a losing team is the backup QB. We didn't lose because of Orton, and very few QBs could actually win with this team.

I'd be willing to be that most coaches would rather have Orton than Tebow.

vandammage13
01-11-2011, 05:24 PM
The most popular player on a losing team is the backup QB. We didn't lose because of Orton, and very few QBs could actually win with this team.

I'd be willing to be that most coaches would rather have Orton than Tebow.

Yeah, he wasn't the only reason we were losing, but I've seen enough of him to know that we won't ever win because of him either. Tebow gives us a chance to win games because he's a playmaker, and while he may not be the passer that Orton is yet, he's only going to get better with time. Tebow just brings other things to the table that Orton will never be able to.

T.K.O.
01-11-2011, 05:53 PM
we will soon find out if coaches would prefer orton over tebow.....1 coach in particular.....the new broncos coach:salute:

PAINTERDAVE
01-11-2011, 07:32 PM
I think they will get a deal done... after the SuperBowl and before the draft.

If not... there is no football anyway...
so keeping Orton on the roster and not paying him ought to preserve our rights to him.

I would think in a full year of lockout...
contracts and salaries would be frozen.

Like we have Tebow under contract for 4 more seasons.
Once the lockout year was past...
we'd still have him under contract for 4 seasons.

If the lockout is supended a week into the season...
and the games continue...
we still have Orton under contract...
he is still worth trade bait...
and we trade him for players and/or future draft picks.

This is going to be a concern around the league with every team and player.

I find it hard to believe that dozens if not a hundred or more players
are suddenly totaly free agents because of the lockout?

Same with Lloyd... he has one year left on his contract.

So we just lose him because of the lockout?

zbeg
01-11-2011, 08:19 PM
The most popular player on a losing team is the backup QB. We didn't lose because of Orton, and very few QBs could actually win with this team.

I'd be willing to be that most coaches would rather have Orton than Tebow.

Well, Orton right now is better than Tebow right now, but if the team is going to be rebuilding next year anyway, I think it's better to go with the player who has more upside. Orton's probably come close to reaching his potential, and while I think he's a very solid QB, Tebow's got much more upside, so it's more worthwhile to figure out if he can reach it.

If so, then the Broncos are much better off, even if Orton's the better QB in the short-term.

hamrob
01-11-2011, 08:48 PM
The most popular player on a losing team is the backup QB. We didn't lose because of Orton, and very few QBs could actually win with this team.

I'd be willing to be that most coaches would rather have Orton than Tebow.Well hell, that's easy enough...they can have Orton!

BroncoStud
01-11-2011, 09:27 PM
The most popular player on a losing team is the backup QB. We didn't lose because of Orton, and very few QBs could actually win with this team.

I'd be willing to be that most coaches would rather have Orton than Tebow.

I would be willing to bet you anything you wanted on that... It's just pure laziness to say that "Orton didn't lose us games..." when the pure fact is he didn't WIN any games either.

Tebow showed more in 3 games than Orton has shown in 5 years. NO WAY IN HELL Denver beats the Texans, nearly beats the Chargers, and hangs tough until the end with Kyle Orton at QB... No way. Like I said, the Bears obviously weren't too sold on Orton since he was an afterthought when they heard Jay Cutler's name.

Just lunacy to think Orton is a good QB. Tebow is sadly ALREADY a better player.

BroncoStud
01-11-2011, 09:28 PM
Well, Orton right now is better than Tebow right now, but if the team is going to be rebuilding next year anyway, I think it's better to go with the player who has more upside. Orton's probably come close to reaching his potential, and while I think he's a very solid QB, Tebow's got much more upside, so it's more worthwhile to figure out if he can reach it.

If so, then the Broncos are much better off, even if Orton's the better QB in the short-term.

No he's not. Orton would have gotten us blown out in the last 3 games like he did in so many before that. The only thing that kep Denver competitive in those games was Tebow making plays.

Complete non-sense.

WARHORSE
01-12-2011, 05:32 AM
No he's not. Orton would have gotten us blown out in the last 3 games like he did in so many before that. The only thing that kep Denver competitive in those games was Tebow making plays.

Complete non-sense.

I gotta agree. We dont know of course, but in the last three games, every time we faced a third down with more than 4 yards to go, I thought of Orton throwing an incompletion.

He moved the offense down the field and onto the scoreboard, and thats simply the truth.

He scored more points against better teams than Orton the last few games.

Lonestar
01-12-2011, 08:22 AM
Just heard that on Mike and Mike. I don't doubt them, but I'd never heard that. Also found it interesting that until a new CBA is in place, teams can trade draft picks, but there can't be any player movement. So much for getting picks this year for Orton...

Also found it interesting the said they'd rather have Orton than any other "available" QB out there - including Kolb.

IN case someone missed it if there is no CBA there will be no games.

If there are no games the players (orton) can't be cancer, unless they all decide to go practice together to get used to each other.

Once a CBA is in place then there will be trades made for players.

Chicken or egg which comes first?


Once again much ado about nothing.

vandammage13
01-12-2011, 10:26 AM
IN case someone missed it if there is no CBA there will be no games.

If there are no games the players (orton) can't be cancer, unless they all decide to go practice together to get used to each other.

Once a CBA is in place then there will be trades made for players.

Chicken or egg which comes first?


Once again much ado about nothing.

Yes, but you are missing one thing...If there is no CBA before the draft, then we can't get a pick for Orton THIS year. We will only be able to get a pick for 2012. Most likely, the CBA will get done before the start of next season (IMHO), but I highly doubt it gets done before April's draft, most likely during the summer, which will make us miss out on getting a pick for Orton this year....Things like this usually don't get resolved until the last minute.

vandammage13
01-12-2011, 02:30 PM
The most popular player on a losing team is the backup QB. We didn't lose because of Orton, and very few QBs could actually win with this team.

I'd be willing to be that most coaches would rather have Orton than Tebow.

Also, last time I checked, Orton is the backup....and I don't think he's very popular around here anymore. So much for that theory.

Ravage!!!
01-12-2011, 03:12 PM
Also, last time I checked, Orton is the backup....and I don't think he's very popular around here anymore. So much for that theory.

Its not a theory, its an adage and an accurate one. When Tebow was the back up, Orton was playing well, and the team was in the game,people simply referred to Tebow as "the learning project." But when the team started to lose regularly, the "Lets bring in Tebow" (the back-up QB) chants started to rise. Had Orton been winning, he would have remained the popular guy, and Tebow would have remained the "learning" the NFL rookie.

When Tebow starts losing on a regular basis, whomever is the back-up is, will become increasingly more popular.

vandammage13
01-12-2011, 03:57 PM
I was just being facetious there, Rav....no need to get all serious over it.

BroncoStud
01-12-2011, 04:15 PM
Its not a theory, its an adage and an accurate one. When Tebow was the back up, Orton was playing well, and the team was in the game,people simply referred to Tebow as "the learning project." But when the team started to lose regularly, the "Lets bring in Tebow" (the back-up QB) chants started to rise. Had Orton been winning, he would have remained the popular guy, and Tebow would have remained the "learning" the NFL rookie.

When Tebow starts losing on a regular basis, whomever is the back-up is, will become increasingly more popular.

Maybe Orton should have made plays to help Denver win. Tebow played his ass off against Oakland, Houston, and the Dolts, he made plays Orton wouldn't even attempt to make and he played with more effort in 1 series of a game than Orton showed his entire time here.

Orton is an NFL backup, he doesn't know it yet, but he is. Funny how his teams seem to play better with him on the bench... Just ask Rex Grossman.

Lonestar
01-12-2011, 07:35 PM
Maybe Orton should have made plays to help Denver win. Tebow played his ass off against Oakland, Houston, and the Dolts, he made plays Orton wouldn't even attempt to make and he played with more effort in 1 series of a game than Orton showed his entire time here.

Orton is an NFL backup, he doesn't know it yet, but he is. Funny how his teams seem to play better with him on the bench... Just ask Rex Grossman.

And soon the other teams will figure out how to beat Tebow "only" just like they did Elway till he got other help.

Not saying he is not THE answer but just part of the puzzle.

Almost any backup QB coming in mid stream or game will have a good to great day til there is film on them.then good DC will figure out a way to get them.

claymore
01-12-2011, 07:53 PM
And soon the other teams will figure out how to beat Tebow "only" just like they did Elway till he got other help.

Not saying he is not THE answer but just part of the puzzle.

Almost any backup QB coming in mid stream or game will have a good to great day til there is film on them.then good DC will figure out a way to get them.

Tebow has a ton of talent on offense to help him. Its the scheme that needs help.