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sneakers
09-14-2008, 09:42 PM
Looks like he has been historically tough on the Broncos...so I guess things even up in the long haul. Read the article, gives the below a little more context.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3462384


Ed Hochuli and the Denver Broncos, 2001 to present
Circumstantial evidence: On Oct. 8, 2000, Hochuli worked the Broncos' 21-7 victory over the San Diego Chargers. His crew assessed nine penalties for 113 yards against the Broncos, including numerous penalties against the team's offensive linemen. The game also featured three calls against the Broncos for defensive pass interference.

With Hochuli in charge, officials flagged Broncos tackle Matt Lepsis for personal-foul and holding penalties in the first quarter. They flagged guard Dan Neil for illegal use of the hands. The Chargers declined a tripping call against Broncos center Tom Nalen, but a holding penalty against receiver Rod Smith nullified a Denver touchdown when the Broncos were trying to extend a 14-7 lead late in the third quarter.

Hochuli has worked more than 120 subsequent NFL games, including playoffs. He has worked at least three games involving every team but Denver -- and an average of more than seven for every other team -- since the start of the 2001 season.

scott.475
09-14-2008, 10:06 PM
I wonder how much Norv Turner is going to be fined for challenging the officiating in his press conference...

topscribe
09-14-2008, 11:16 PM
I don't believe Ed has been any tougher on the Broncos than he should have
been. I do believe the Broncos have committed a lot of errors that he and his
crews have spotted. If he sees it, he throws a flag. Simple as that.

I know the Hochulis. They have a law firm in Tucson. Their favorite football
team is the University of Arizona Wildcats. That's about it for them.

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gobroncsnv
09-14-2008, 11:16 PM
I think Hochuli is among the best refs in the league right now. He was man enough to admit he messed up the call, but correctly quoted the rules, both on the "interception", and the "fumble". The only thing he could do to make it right is exactly what he did. When the replay booth didn't work, he can't (CAN'T) overturn the play. When he blows the whistle on the fumble, action stops, and the ball hadn't been recovered yet. Watch the play, he's signaling incomplete pass before the charger gets the ball.
Sandy Eggo has an apology coming, but that's it. That's all the league will be able to do.

sneakers
09-15-2008, 12:12 AM
I don't believe Ed has been any tougher on the Broncos than he should have
been. I do believe the Broncos have committed a lot of errors that he and his
crews have spotted. If he sees it, he throws a flag. Simple as that.

I know the Hochulis. They have a law firm in Tucson. Their favorite football
team is the University of Arizona Wildcats. That's about it for them.

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He's got a law firm or something, and has stayed at my hotel before in the offseason. Next time I see him, I'll give him a big hug.

Superchop 7
09-15-2008, 12:27 AM
The girl I went to the game with wants to do him.

Broncos Mtnman
09-15-2008, 12:33 AM
I loved his call at the end of the game when Jay threw that "incomplete pass."

:beer:

sneakers
09-15-2008, 01:13 AM
The girl I went to the game with wants to do him.

He probably figured scenarios such as this would happen....I can only imagine what he is doing tonight :eek:

topscribe
09-15-2008, 03:05 AM
He's got a law firm or something, and has stayed at my hotel before in the offseason. Next time I see him, I'll give him a big hug.

Yes, him and his brother. The name of their firm is easy to remember: Hochuli & Hochuli. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thwink.gif

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topscribe
09-15-2008, 03:06 AM
I loved his call at the end of the game when Jay threw that "incomplete pass."

:beer:

I respect him a lot, and he showed why today. Just said, "I blew it."

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Tned
09-15-2008, 07:24 AM
Hochuli is among the best, but like with athletes that blow it, he blew it. His crew blew it on the Champ INT call. He blew it (I have to look again, but based on what the annoucers said) on the DJ personal foul, leading with the helmet foul.

MOtorboat
09-15-2008, 08:16 AM
Hochuli is among the best, but like with athletes that blow it, he blew it. His crew blew it on the Champ INT call. He blew it (I have to look again, but based on what the annoucers said) on the DJ personal foul, leading with the helmet foul.

Thank you...I couldn't remember who it was that had that personal foul...

But yes...that was a bogus call too...just like the last one. I'm still not so sure that wasn't caught by Champ...despite Randy Cross going on and on and on about it.

Hobe
09-15-2008, 08:25 AM
I can remember lots of games that were decided by bad calls in the NFL. Also games I thought we lose because of bad calls. I also remember so other missed calls in the game. A clear holding on a Charger completion. A play where the DBs looked around for a flag before they celebrated. They were just not at a highly critical point of the game and they didn't have Cross harping on them all game long.

We ran them into the ground in the first half, but came out playing very conservative in the 3RD quarter. That exposed our defense and let them back in the game. We still can't stop the run.

Be that as it may, I am glad we won, but the sweetness of the win is less.

Mike
09-15-2008, 08:27 AM
Randy Cross is a baffoon. That is all.

MOtorboat
09-15-2008, 08:30 AM
Randy Cross is a baffoon. That is all.

My boss came over to watch the game, and I was bitching about Randy Cross from the get-go, and he was giving me shit, because, as people know, announcers don't bother me much. But, he was cussing at him by the second quarter too, and he's a Chiefs/Eagles fan (don't ask...).

Hawgdriver
09-15-2008, 06:28 PM
So the NFL has given Ed Hochuli a bad grade for week 2. Fair enough. But what troubles me is that they are blowing something to monster status just because it's so simple to understand.

Every week dozens of NFL officials make the wrong call. Some are worse than Hochuli's. There are many calls that reshape the game but aren't as high-impact as Hochuli's. Just because it happened right before such a momentous game-changing play, it got extra attention. What about all of the blown calls in other games that happened without that much leverage on the outcome, or not quite as close to the goal-line? I would imagine they don't get the same attention just because they aren't as obvious to the casual observer.

Yeah, the guy blew the call. But just because it's so obvious it doesn't mean he's the only one to get a call wrong, or that it's the "WCOAT." It just means we aren't deep enough to appreciate that blown calls reshape the game constantly and are a fact of game.

More than anything, it's a shame that it has become a distraction because it's all people can focus on. And it will be as long as a guy on the field is in that position.

Benetto
09-15-2008, 06:33 PM
Take the bad calls with the good ones...Cause both are inevitable.

DenBronx
09-15-2008, 06:34 PM
ed has been one of the nfls best refs for years. i hate to see the guy get thrown under the bus for one bad call.

turftoad
09-15-2008, 06:40 PM
Agreed. It's not like they gave us the TD. We still had to earn it along with the 2pt conversion also.

Buff
09-15-2008, 06:44 PM
Hochuli has been the gold-standard in officiating for the last 3-5 years, IMO... And I think your point is valid, he shouldn't be hung out to dry for one bad call... The guy's still a great official.

But we also need to acknowledge that we probably wouldn't be the voices of reason if the call had gone against the Broncos. It's easy for us to sit here now at 2-0 with a 2 game lead in the division and tell people to settle down. I can fully understand Chargers fans not letting this go easily. I probably wouldn't either.

Hawgdriver
09-15-2008, 06:46 PM
Agreed. It's not like they gave us the TD. We still had to earn it along with the 2pt conversion also.

Carol's been saying much the same. In a lot of ways, it's kind of like a life lesson. It's how you play after you are befallen by "the great unfairness" that determines how you stack up. At some point you simply have to overcome the vicissitudes of life and write your own destiny.

MasterShake
09-15-2008, 06:46 PM
Hochuli has been the gold-standard in officiating for the last 3-5 years, IMO... And I think your point is valid, he shouldn't be hung out to dry for one bad call... The guy's still a great official.

But we also need to acknowledge that we probably wouldn't be the voices of reason if the call had gone against the Broncos. It's easy for us to sit here now at 2-0 with a 2 game lead in the division and tell people to settle down. I can fully understand Chargers fans not letting this go easily. I probably wouldn't either.

Good point. But on the same hand if we lost because of a ball slipping out of Cutlers hand the loss would have seemed just as cheap to me as the way it did happened feels for the Chargers. I hope next week we dominate the Saints and bury this talk about cheap wins.

Hawgdriver
09-15-2008, 06:50 PM
I can fully understand Chargers fans not letting this go easily. I probably wouldn't either.

My fear is that they will do just what I hope we would, and that's play with a chip on the shoulder and the belief that it's their responsibility and no one else's to make sure they win the game. This is an opportunity for the chargers to get seriously pissed and wake up...but I hope they choose the pity party option instead.

claymore
09-15-2008, 06:56 PM
I feel worse for Ed than I do for the chargers by a great bit. Chargers are blaming one innocent bad call for losing the game. If they deserved to win, that call wouldnt have mattered.

It goes both ways. We had a couple bad calls etc....... How many times do we have to see Dumerville held, or the hands to his face...... Every play....... Screw the dolts.

Hawgdriver
09-15-2008, 07:07 PM
I feel worse for Ed than I do for the chargers by a great bit. Chargers are blaming one innocent bad call for losing the game. If they deserved to win, that call wouldnt have mattered.

It goes both ways. We had a couple bad calls etc....... How many times do we have to see Dumerville held, or the hands to his face...... Every play....... Screw the dolts.

While we're at it, how about the leading with the helmet calls? They missed it twice--both times in favor of San Diego (once when DJ led with his shoulder and the other when Cutler's bell was rung by...can't remember who's HELMET). Who's to say that any of those non-calls don't end up with a different score??

claymore
09-15-2008, 07:12 PM
While we're at it, how about the leading with the helmet calls? They missed it twice--both times in favor of San Diego (once when DJ led with his shoulder and the other when Cutler's bell was rung by...can't remember who's HELMET). Who's to say that any of those non-calls don't end up with a different score??

Zactly........ and those will never be remembered. Its just a charger excuse to losing. And I feel bad for the fans cause the chargers have always sucked soooooooooooo bad..... and they missed they're prime IMO.... Its down hill from here for them IMO because of the later draft picks, and aging players. They will have a winning season........ but they are not on the rise anymore, they are on the decline. IMO.......

NameUsedBefore
09-15-2008, 07:44 PM
It was a bad call, no doubt, and I feel kinda icky about it, but some people are blowing it up as if Hochuli not only blew the call, but gave the Broncos a TD and extra-2 to boot. There was still game left to play when it happened; and these kinds of mega screw-ups do happen a lot (especially with fumbles), mind you, we just don't notice them as much because they don't usually happen toward the last plays of the game.

Broncolingus
09-15-2008, 07:50 PM
Do I know Ed Hochuli personally…no.

Does he seem like a consummate professional and good man…yes.

Did he man up and admidt his mistake and NOT hide behind a rule…yes.

Bolt fans are whiners like their QB, and the call was missed.

Everyone admits it…

Change the rule…

“Downgrade” the ref (whatever the F that is)…

Bottom line, teams get both good and bad breaks over the game/season, the game is over and done, and time to get ready for next weeks game, dudes.

Lingus…out.

BCJ
09-15-2008, 07:56 PM
I feel worse for Ed than I do for the chargers by a great bit. Chargers are blaming one innocent bad call for losing the game. If they deserved to win, that call wouldnt have mattered.

It goes both ways. We had a couple bad calls etc....... How many times do we have to see Dumerville held, or the hands to his face...... Every play....... Screw the dolts.

I dont. Chargers played a very good team (well, at least the offense) and got screwed by one official. Ed is a good ref, but he cost the Chargers that game. Yes, we still had to earn it but if it went the correct way, we might get the ball back with 10 seconds left and somewhere near the 50 yard line. Lucky for the Chargers is that they are good enough to come back from this.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-15-2008, 07:57 PM
Agreed. It's not like they gave us the TD. We still had to earn it along with the 2pt conversion also.


And that is EXACTLY what so many are overlooking. Plus there was still 24 seconds left on the game clock for SD to try and get in field goal range

broncogirl7
09-15-2008, 08:04 PM
I felt bad for the guy and give him much respect for admitting his mistake in front of everyone.

Nomad
09-15-2008, 08:06 PM
Though they should of stopped us as far as TD and 2 pt conversion, the call was a huge game changing call wwithout the whistle, it would have been a fumble, Chargers ball, game over.

Officials are human and even the analysts agree with that. Some I have listened to today have more of a problem with the instant replay computer not working. Which that's understandable!

Denver Native (Carol)
09-15-2008, 08:07 PM
It was a bad call, but I think more than that - SD should look at their defense. Up to that call, they had given up 31 points!!!!!!!

Tned
09-15-2008, 08:32 PM
I felt bad for the guy and give him much respect for admitting his mistake in front of everyone.

He didn't have much choice. Everyone watching the replay could see he made a mistake.

AgentOrange
09-15-2008, 08:46 PM
He didn't have much choice. Everyone watching the replay could see he made a mistake.

Have you ever heard of a ref telling a head coach he'd blown a call? Ed's a class act. Anyone can make a mistake, and these days personal responsibility seems rare.

That said, as creepy as it makes me feel to have the Broncs perceived as winners only due to a bad call, I don't feel that badly about it when I recall a certain San Diego QB's actions on the sidelines last year. As far as I'm concerned Karma was our referee.

topscribe
09-15-2008, 08:46 PM
It was a bad call, no doubt, and I feel kinda icky about it, but some people are blowing it up as if Hochuli not only blew the call, but gave the Broncos a TD and extra-2 to boot. There was still game left to play when it happened; and these kinds of mega screw-ups do happen a lot (especially with fumbles), mind you, we just don't notice them as much because they don't usually happen toward the last plays of the game.

That and the fact that, with a second and goal, the Broncos had the TD,
anyway, but for Cutler's freak drop of the ball, which no one on the Chargers'
defense had anything to do with whatsoever. The Broncos were down on
the one yard line because they had outplayed the Chargers to get there.

The deal is, either the Chargers got the "gift" of the fumble, or the Broncos
got the "gift" of the call. Forget that it would have been a far greater gift
for the Chargers.

I'll just take the gift. :coffee:

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Tned
09-15-2008, 08:57 PM
Have you ever heard of a ref telling a head coach he'd blown a call? Ed's a class act. Anyone can make a mistake, and these days personal responsibility seems rare.


Yes, I have heard Shanahan say the same thing in news conferences, where a ref or side judge or someone told Shanny he blew the call, but it couldn't be reviewed.

Don't get me wrong, I think Hochuli is a great ref, my point was simply that he didn't have much choice in the matter. He couldn't give SD the ball, because replay rules don't allow it. He was clearly waiving his hands to indicate incomplete pass, rather than throwing his bean bag for a fumble.

He had no choice in the matter. He had to explain to Turner why SD didn't have the ball, and that was the only option. He coudln't very well walk up to Norv and have this conversation:

Norv: "Why don't we have the ball after the fumble?"
Hochuli: "Because I said so"

AgentOrange
09-15-2008, 09:03 PM
He coudln't very well walk up to Norv and have this conversation:

Norv: "Why don't we have the ball after the fumble?"
Hochuli: "Because I said so"
Fair enough. My thought is that he could have said the equivalent of "The NFL made me do it." or "The sun was in my eyes." or a host of lame excuses. Instead, Ed chose to face the fusillade by taking full responsibility.

Tned
09-15-2008, 09:08 PM
Fair enough. My thought is that he could have said the equivalent of "The NFL made me do it." or "The sun was in my eyes." or a host of lame excuses. Instead, Ed chose to face the fusillade by taking full responsibility.

Like I said, I respect Ed as one of the best Refs in the league, but he was pretty boxed in. It was clear he blew the call, and the only way out would have been to blow off the replay rules and reverse it, which would have been even worse when he was graded by the officials review that will take place this week when he is graded. The first was a mistake based on his position, the second would have been a failure to know the rules which is a MUCH bigger no no.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-15-2008, 09:10 PM
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/chargers/2008/sep/15/hochuli-devastated/?chargers

Chargers Blog

Boss calls Hochuli "devastated'' by error
By Kevin Acee


Posted: September 15, 2008


I talked today with Mike Pereira, the NFL's supervisor of officials.

I'll have a story later, but Pereira said Ed Hochuli would be marked down for the mistake he made at the end of Sunday's game in Denver, calling a Jay Cutler pass incomplete instead of a fumble.

Pereira has spoken with Hochuli several times since the end of the game and described Hochuli as "devastated."

Pereira said the low grade could affect Hochuli's standing as it relates to refereeing in the postseason.

Pereira said all officials are graded on every play of every game. Hochuli will officiate in all his scheduled games this season.

topscribe
09-15-2008, 09:15 PM
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/chargers/2008/sep/15/hochuli-devastated/?chargers

Chargers Blog

Boss calls Hochuli "devastated'' by error
By Kevin Acee


Posted: September 15, 2008


I talked today with Mike Pereira, the NFL's supervisor of officials.

I'll have a story later, but Pereira said Ed Hochuli would be marked down for the mistake he made at the end of Sunday's game in Denver, calling a Jay Cutler pass incomplete instead of a fumble.

Pereira has spoken with Hochuli several times since the end of the game and described Hochuli as "devastated."

Pereira said the low grade could affect Hochuli's standing as it relates to refereeing in the postseason.

Pereira said all officials are graded on every play of every game. Hochuli will officiate in all his scheduled games this season.

That is absurd that one call would preclude an excellent referee from the
postseason. I hope that doesn't happen. I would hope so, were I
*shudder* a Chargers fan.

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Orange Habit
09-15-2008, 09:20 PM
So I hope that everyone hating on Hochuli for not giving San Diego the ball will also hate on the ref in this Monday Night game for not giving Dallas the ball after DeSean Jackson did his best Leon Lett impression. It was the exact same rule that allowed both the Eagles (on the 1 yard rush) and the Broncos to score their TDs.

Northman
09-15-2008, 09:54 PM
Are they treating him unfairly? Yes. But i agree that they should address it finally like they said they are at the end of the season. No use having replay if it can be simply overturned by a inadvertant whistle. Replay was instituted to make the right call at the end of the day. With that said, thats not how it is right now and its embarrassing how Norv Turner and the sports media is victimizing Ed and whining about something that happens on more than one occasion.

Tned
09-15-2008, 10:02 PM
That is absurd that one call would preclude an excellent referee from the
postseason. I hope that doesn't happen. I would hope so, were I
*shudder* a Chargers fan.

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It's the way the system works. Every penalty is reviewed, along with non-calls that should have been called. They are graded on their performance and the crews that perform the best ref the post-season games.

It's a shame, but it's a system that has been in place for a while.

honz
09-15-2008, 10:14 PM
So I hope that everyone hating on Hochuli for not giving San Diego the ball will also hate on the ref in this Monday Night game for not giving Dallas the ball after DeSean Jackson did his best Leon Lett impression. It was the exact same rule that allowed both the Eagles (on the 1 yard rush) and the Broncos to score their TDs.
That's exactly what I said even before they reviewed it. I said "That's the same exact call as in the Denver game. The play was called dead so by rule, they can't give the ball to Dallas."

However, none of the announcers even made the connection and nobody will probably be talking about it tomorrow because it wasn't at the end of the game. It doesn't make it right, but it just shows that bad calls happen every game.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-15-2008, 10:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=3589907&campaign=rsssrch&source=denver+broncos

Referee who likes to look good looks bad

Ed Hochuli likes to look good on the job.

Before Sunday you may not have known his name, but he's instantly recognizable on the field as the guy in stripes with the biceps that threaten to explode out of his short sleeves. In a recent interview, Hochuli said he practices announcing calls in front of a mirror so he'll look official when he gives them for real on TV.

He's apparently a fine referee, no matter what Norv Turner may believe. The NFL likes Hochuli so much that he's worked two Super Bowls, and he's developed a cult following that includes a Web site that asks the question "What Would Ed Hochuli do?"

Right now the answer to that is: Stay as far away as possible from the San Diego Chargers and their fans. It was his call, after all, that took away a near-certain win over the Denver Broncos and made Turner so livid that he refused to accept the referee's admission that he blew it.

Turner's anger had subsided some by Monday, but he still seemed to be having trouble digesting the fact his Chargers are 0-2 only because Hochuli couldn't get it right on a call that even Denver quarterback Jay Cutler said should have gone against him.

"Anything that we talk about or anything that is discussed in terms of any of the rules or any of the calls, isn't going to change the outcome of that game," Turner said. "That game is going to be 39-38, forever."

Forever is a long time, but Turner is right. No amount of complaining is going to change the score or the outcome, though the league did say Monday it may look into the rules after the season to try and prevent the same thing from happening again.

While the league's at it, it might also change its video company. The Chargers lost possession on a call earlier in the game that would have surely been reversed if only the on-field video feed the referee consults in contested calls had been working.

Blown calls, of course, aren't anything new in the NFL, even when the latest sophisticated technology to limit them is working. On any given Sunday in any given game there's a call or two that will have players and coaches at least muttering under their breath.

Some complain a little louder, which does little except make their wallets lighter. Tennessee coach Jeff Fisher was hit up for $12,500 a few years back for post-game remarks, while Pittsburgh owner Dan Rooney had to pay $25,000 after voicing his complaints publicly after a loss to Atlanta.

Turner may have to pay, too, though he might get away without a fine because truth in this instance is a good defense. And it's certainly true that a referee standing about 10 feet away should be able to distinguish between a ball that comes out when a quarterback is reaching back to pass and one that comes out when his arm is moving forward.

If not, here's a tip: When the ball goes backward it's a pretty good sign the arm was going that way, too.

What is really interesting about this case isn't that Hochuli blew the call. It's that in a league obsessed with using cameras and replays to eliminate human error, there was a game that was decided by human error.

That the error was made by one it its best -- not to mention most visible -- officials merely illustrates how complex and difficult a job officiating an NFL game can be. With 300-pound players crashing around them, officials have to make split-second decisions based on rules that are sometimes so convoluted it takes a lawyer -- which Hochuli is -- to understand them all.

They do a decent enough job most of the time, as evidenced by the number of calls they get right at full speed, only to be backed up by the slow motion replays. But Hochuli didn't in this game, and the result was so embarrassing that NFL spokesman Greg Aiello quickly noted that he would be marked down for the call under a league evaluation system where high marks equal playoff jobs and low marks sometimes mean dismissal.

If the league is really serious about top-quality officiating, though, maybe it ought to quit hiring hobbyists and start employing people to do the job full time. The NFL is the richest pro league around, with Forbes estimating just last week that each team is worth an average of $1 billion. But it is the only major professional league that uses part-time officials to call its games.

This gives the league wide flexibility in the hiring and firing of officials, and makes it less likely that they'll cause labor disruptions. But it only makes sense that someone working five days a week, 50 weeks a year, studying and practicing his craft would be that much better than someone who has to work a regular job, too.

Best of all, it would give Hochuli more time to practice in front of the mirror.

frauschieze
09-15-2008, 10:42 PM
It's the way the system works. Every penalty is reviewed, along with non-calls that should have been called. They are graded on their performance and the crews that perform the best ref the post-season games.

It's a shame, but it's a system that has been in place for a while.

Do you know if any one missed call is weighed more heavily than any other? If not, then it's not really a big deal.

And a more random comment: Everyone is making a big deal about the competition committee reviewing the play, but they review ALL the controversial plays from the year. This is nothing special.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-15-2008, 10:45 PM
Do you know if any one missed call is weighed more heavily than any other? If not, then it's not really a big deal.

And a more random comment: Everyone is making a big deal about the competition committee reviewing the play, but they review ALL the controversial plays from the year. This is nothing special.

I think the big deal here is that it happened at the end of the game, so it is the last thing that everyone remembers.

topscribe
09-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Now I know why some of the Chargers players are such crybabies. Their head
coach is! Come Monday, and he is still crying.

He says the ref took the game away? He wants to ignore the fact that the
Broncos were on the one-yard line with a second and goal when the freak
accident happened.

Turner is also ignoring that his team still had the opportunity to stop the
Broncos, who then had been backed up to the ten-yard line and a down taken
away. He also is ignoring that his team had the opportunity to stop the two-
point conversion.

Nope, the ref didn't take away the Chargers victory. The Broncos did. :coffee:

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MOtorboat
09-15-2008, 10:47 PM
Now I know why some of the Chargers players are such crybabies. Their head
coach is! Come Monday, and he is still crying.

He says the ref took the game away? He wants to ignore the fact that the
Broncos were on the one-yard line with a second and goal when the freak
accident happened.

Turner is also ignoring that his team still had the opportunity to stop the
Broncos, who then had been backed up to the ten-yard line and a down taken
away. He also is ignoring that his team had the opportunity to stop the two-
point conversion.

Nope, the ref didn't take away the Chargers victory. The Broncos did. :coffee:

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I hate to play Devil's Advocate, but you DO realize that if that play is called correctly, Denver loses....right?

topscribe
09-15-2008, 10:48 PM
I hate to play Devil's Advocate, but you DO realize that if that play is called correctly, Denver loses....right?

No Mo, I don't. That's because I fell off the turnip truck yesterday. :rolleyes:

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MOtorboat
09-15-2008, 10:49 PM
No Mo, I don't. That's because I fell off the turnip truck yesterday. :rolleyes:

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So...you do NOT acknowledge that if that play is whistled correctly, Denver loses the game?

frauschieze
09-15-2008, 10:49 PM
I think the big deal here is that it happened at the end of the game, so it is the last thing that everyone remembers.

The last thing I remember is McCree batting that ball away. :laugh:

Denver Native (Carol)
09-15-2008, 10:50 PM
I hate to play Devil's Advocate, but you DO realize that if that play is called correctly, Denver loses....right?

Of course, but since the play was not called correctly, if SD had stopped Denver scoring a TD, or if SD had stopped Denver from scoring the 2 point conversion, Denver loses. SD still had a chance to control their own destiny, and they did not.

topscribe
09-15-2008, 10:50 PM
So...you do NOT acknowledge that if that play is whistled correctly, Denver loses the game?

Did you miss this? ---------> :rolleyes:

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Northman
09-15-2008, 10:50 PM
It gets worse, the last 4 games while SD was kicking our tail you never heard a peep from Igor or the SD defensive line about the so-called "holding" of our Oline. But low and behold following a loss to us yesterday all of a sudden Igor is crying like a little girl about us holding. Totally pathetic. Everytime i want to try and give that team and franchise any credit something like this just makes me feel that they are truly the most classless and sore losing team in the NFL. I truly hope that this current lineup never wins a Super Bowl, they dont deserve it on any level.

topscribe
09-15-2008, 10:52 PM
It gets worse, the last 4 games while SD was kicking our tail you never heard a peep from Igor or the SD defensive line about the so-called "holding" of our Oline. But low and behold following a loss to us yesterday all of a sudden Igor is crying like a little girl about us holding. Totally pathetic. Everytime i want to try and give that team and franchise any credit something like this just makes me feel that they are truly the most classless and sore losing team in the NFL. I truly hope that this current lineup never wins a Super Bowl, they dont deserve it on any level.

Igor has been a two-bit crybaby punk ever since I first heard of him.

Remember how he was crying his eyes out over Nalen?

-----

MOtorboat
09-15-2008, 10:52 PM
It gets worse, the last 4 games while SD was kicking our tail you never heard a peep from Igor or the SD defensive line about the so-called "holding" of our Oline. But low and behold following a loss to us yesterday all of a sudden Igor is crying like a little girl about us holding. Totally pathetic. Everytime i want to try and give that team and franchise any credit something like this just makes me feel that they are truly the most classless and sore losing team in the NFL. I truly hope that this current lineup never wins a Super Bowl, they dont deserve it on any level.

No shit. That dude is the biggest *bad word* on that team. He
s worse than Phillip *bad word* Rivers.


Of course, but since the play was not called correctly, if SD had stopped Denver scoring a TD, or if SD had stopped Denver from scoring the 2 point conversion, Denver loses. SD still had a chance to control their own destiny, and they did not.

Look...I'm with you guys, but to absolutely, utterly deny that that ruling had no bearing on the outcome is not correct...

topscribe
09-15-2008, 10:54 PM
Look...I'm with you guys, but to absolutely, utterly deny that that ruling had no bearing on the outcome is not correct...

Mo, nobody that I can see is absolutely, utterly denying that. What is your problem?

-----

MOtorboat
09-15-2008, 10:56 PM
He says the ref took the game away? He wants to ignore the fact that the
Broncos were on the one-yard line with a second and goal when the freak
accident happened.

I guess I'm misinterpreting this statement.

If the referee makes the correct call, Denver loses.

BroncoAV06
09-15-2008, 11:02 PM
There is going to be a mark next to this win, but I will take it. The tuck rule started the Patriots dynasty so who knows what will happen next. Mistakes happen, easy for us to say right?

deacon
09-15-2008, 11:17 PM
My fear is that they will do just what I hope we would, and that's play with a chip on the shoulder and the belief that it's their responsibility and no one else's to make sure they win the game. This is an opportunity for the chargers to get seriously pissed and wake up...but I hope they choose the pity party option instead.

And there you have it. It's the players responsibility to make sure a bad call won't matter. If the score would have been SD 31 Denver 10 the call wouldn't have mattered even if Denver went ahead and scored.

Griping about bad calls is for losers. They even out during a game. Don't forget, there are a lot of "no calls" that are just missed calls by the officials. How many of those do you think there are every game? Tonight on MNF I saw an obvious face mask against Dallas that wasn't called. It's possible that missed call could have been a turning point and Philly went on and lost. This call was no worse than if it had happened in the situation I mentioned above. SD needs to get over it and move on.

topscribe
09-15-2008, 11:21 PM
There is going to be a mark next to this win, but I will take it. The tuck rule started the Patriots dynasty so who knows what will happen next. Mistakes happen, easy for us to say right?

You hit upon a key there. NE went on to establish a dynasty to the point that
the tuck rule has been rendered moot. If Denver wants the world to forget
about this, then there is nothing like wins and championships to do the trick.

-----

deacon
09-15-2008, 11:23 PM
Do you know if any one missed call is weighed more heavily than any other? If not, then it's not really a big deal.

And a more random comment: Everyone is making a big deal about the competition committee reviewing the play, but they review ALL the controversial plays from the year. This is nothing special.

This, to me is really interesting. How in the world are you gonna do anything about an inadvertant whistle? Sure you can tell the players to keep playing but then you're gonna see all kinds of penalties for unnecessary roughness because the ball was dead.

I think it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. There's nothing that can be done but they've got to say they're looking at it to make people feel better. Kinda like wearing a (pick your color) ribbon to show support for something. It doesn't do a thing but the guy wearing it feels good about himself.

by the way, NO missed call is any different than another. That's proven by the fact that officials are told not to pay any attention to score, field position, or time when making a call.After all, who's to say a missed call in the first quarter isn't game changing?

hamrob
09-15-2008, 11:26 PM
So the NFL has given Ed Hochuli a bad grade for week 2. Fair enough. But what troubles me is that they are blowing something to monster status just because it's so simple to understand.

Every week dozens of NFL officials make the wrong call. Some are worse than Hochuli's. There are many calls that reshape the game but aren't as high-impact as Hochuli's. Just because it happened right before such a momentous game-changing play, it got extra attention. What about all of the blown calls in other games that happened without that much leverage on the outcome, or not quite as close to the goal-line? I would imagine they don't get the same attention just because they aren't as obvious to the casual observer.

Yeah, the guy blew the call. But just because it's so obvious it doesn't mean he's the only one to get a call wrong, or that it's the "WCOAT." It just means we aren't deep enough to appreciate that blown calls reshape the game constantly and are a fact of game.

More than anything, it's a shame that it has become a distraction because it's all people can focus on. And it will be as long as a guy on the field is in that position.Ed is one of the best. That being said...were the tables turned and the call was made in San Diego's favor...would we all be so forgiving. I think not!

deacon
09-15-2008, 11:27 PM
Look...I'm with you guys, but to absolutely, utterly deny that that ruling had no bearing on the outcome is not correct...

Of course it did. But I submit there were probably 10-15 other calls or non-calls that also had a bearing. That's just part of football.

I don't fault SD for crying about it yesterday but today is today and they had better have their sights set on the next opponent or they'll get their butts beaten again. You've gotta let it go.

gobroncsnv
09-15-2008, 11:55 PM
and he's a Chiefs/Eagles fan (don't ask...).

some kind of feather fetish??? I'm just sayin, y'know?

Northman
09-15-2008, 11:59 PM
This, to me is really interesting. How in the world are you gonna do anything about an inadvertant whistle? Sure you can tell the players to keep playing but then you're gonna see all kinds of penalties for unnecessary roughness because the ball was dead.

I think it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. There's nothing that can be done but they've got to say they're looking at it to make people feel better. Kinda like wearing a (pick your color) ribbon to show support for something. It doesn't do a thing but the guy wearing it feels good about himself.

by the way, NO missed call is any different than another. That's proven by the fact that officials are told not to pay any attention to score, field position, or time when making a call.After all, who's to say a missed call in the first quarter isn't game changing?


I do think that they should keep blowing the whistle to make sure the players dont take any cheap shots or get hurt. But at the same time when a play is challenged it should not be negated because of the whistle. As much as i love getting this win and i support how the rules were applied i can feel for the Chargers that they did indeed recover a fumble. Whistle or not, it should of been overturned and i think that is what they are going to address in the offseason.

Hawgdriver
09-16-2008, 12:49 AM
Watching the game tonight I took special notice of the calls and no-calls. There was a pass-interference call that was made against the Cowboys. It should have been made against the Phillies. There were several significant face mask penalties that were not called. In some of those situations it would have resulted in a huge first down. If you could assign point values to these calls, they would probably add up to a high number. For example, the pass interference call was worth maybe 5 points (maybe they score anyway, and it's moot, or maybe they punt, or maybe they settle for a FG, depending on the probabilities). Some calls worth more or less points. As a ref, it's really irrelevant how many points a call is worth; you're trying to get all of them correct. Some of them will happen to be worth more than others. I think those that have been in this business long enough have to understand that you aren't always going to get the call you want, it's just a fact. You hope they balance out, but you also know you have to take the outcome of the game into your own hands. That's why you it's not enough to just eek out a win, sometimes the calls won't go your way.

To put such focus and blame on a single call to me is worse than self-serving, it shows ignorance.

Tned
09-16-2008, 07:10 AM
Do you know if any one missed call is weighed more heavily than any other? If not, then it's not really a big deal.

And a more random comment: Everyone is making a big deal about the competition committee reviewing the play, but they review ALL the controversial plays from the year. This is nothing special.

First, I don't think it is weighed any more heavily, but I don't really know. I am basing my info on things Mike Feirera (spelling, head of officiating) has said, and ironically the special NFLN did following Hochuli for a week, where he talked about it and they showed the group that reviews every play/call/penalty in each game and rates the refs.

In addition, each week the refs are given a rules quiz that they have to complete and send in, along with a detailed report of every penalty/call made in the game.

Secon, you made a good point. They review all things like this each year.

Calls like this actually happen all the time, this just happened to be at the end of the game. Until they changed the rule prior to the '07 season, that allowed posession to change after the whistle blew on down by contact, we used to see this a lot. A clear fumble that was recovered by the other team, but because the official blew the whistle and ruled down by contact, the play was over. No fumble. They changed that, and I wouldn't be surprised if they change this one.

BroncoNut
09-16-2008, 08:59 AM
but why would they have given us the TD? That's ludicrous. I am a Denver fan, but that was a fumble and recovery, sorry. we didn't deserve to win that game

deacon
09-16-2008, 10:49 AM
but why would they have given us the TD? That's ludicrous. I am a Denver fan, but that was a fumble and recovery, sorry. we didn't deserve to win that game

ummmm..they didn't GIVE us a TD. Denver got the ball at the 10 yard line and it was 3rd down. All SD had to do is stop us. Then all they had to do is stop the two point try and they win.

Northman
09-16-2008, 10:52 AM
ummmm..they didn't GIVE us a TD. Denver got the ball at the 10 yard line and it was 3rd down. All SD had to do is stop us. Then all they had to do is stop the two point try and they win.

You would think the concept of that would be easy to comprehend but alas, its not.

BroncoNut
09-16-2008, 10:52 AM
ummmm..they didn't GIVE us a TD. Denver got the ball at the 10 yard line and it was 3rd down. All SD had to do is stop us. Then all they had to do is stop the two point try and they win.

ummmm.. follow the thread. and also, I will stick to my previous statement in saying that that WAS a Denver turnover. If you deny that, that's your issue, but you calling me out on something, ummm. no., I don't think so pal

broncogirl7
09-16-2008, 10:57 AM
ummmm.. follow the thread. and also, I will stick to my previous statement in saying that that WAS a Denver turnover. If you deny that, that's your issue, but you calling me out on something, ummm. no., I don't think so pal

Nut, you crack me up!:laugh:

topscribe
09-16-2008, 11:25 AM
ummmm.. follow the thread. and also, I will stick to my previous statement in saying that that WAS a Denver turnover. If you deny that, that's your issue, but you calling me out on something, ummm. no., I don't think so pal

He was following the thread. That is why he could say what he did.

Yes, it was a bad call by the ref. Yes, it was a fumble that should have been
awarded to the Chargers. Yes, the game would have been lost at that point.

Okay, we got that out of the way, finally . . . I hope.

Now, what deacon and others, including me, were saying . . . and what Shanny
said . . . was that the Broncos were not just handed the victory. First, the
Broncos had the game won, anyway, until the freak accident that no
Charger had anything to do with.

Second, the Broncos had to come back from a third and goal at the 10, then
fourth and goal from the four. If the Chargers stop them at that point, they
win the game. They didn't.

Then the Broncos go for the two-point conversion. If the Chargers stop them
at that point, they win. They didn't.

All the Chargers had to do was to stop the Broncos. They could not. The
Broncos beat them.

No one handed the Broncos the game. The Broncos still had to beat the
Chargers and win it. They did.

Okay, I think I have covered all the important points on this. I hope we all
can understand now.

-----

BroncoNut
09-16-2008, 11:39 AM
He was following the thread. That is why he could say what he did.

Yes, it was a bad call by the ref. Yes, it was a fumble that should have been
awarded to the Chargers. Yes, the game would have been lost at that point.

Okay, we got that out of the way, finally . . . I hope.

Now, what deacon and others, including me, were saying . . . and what Shanny
said . . . was that the Broncos were not just handed the victory. First, the
Broncos had the game won, anyway, until the freak accident that no
Charger had anything to do with.

Second, the Broncos had to come back from a third and goal at the 10, then
fourth and goal from the four. If the Chargers stop them at that point, they
win the game. They didn't.

Then the Broncos go for the two-point conversion. If the Chargers stop them
at that point, they win. They didn't.

All the Chargers had to do was to stop the Broncos. They could not. The
Broncos beat them.

No one handed the Broncos the game. The Broncos still had to beat the
Chargers and win it. They did.

Okay, I think I have covered all the important points on this. I hope we all
can understand now.

-----



Believe me, you and deacon are not near as cerebral as you two seem to think you are.

I completely understand what both of you are saying, but that is really not saying much. I just don't think Deacon interepreted my post correctly. I hope I have made MYSELF clear. Thank you very much and have a pleasant day.

deacon
09-16-2008, 11:46 AM
Believe me, you and deacon are not near as cerebral as you two seem to think you are.

:confused:

MNPatsFan
09-16-2008, 11:48 AM
Agreed. It's not like they gave us the TD. We still had to earn it along with the 2pt conversion also.No, but playing devil's advocate - the Broncos would not even have had the opportunity to score the TD and 2 point conversion without that call.;) The Chargers, however, still had the opportunity to win the game by preventing the TD or the 2 point conversion and failed to do so.

With regards to the NFL's comments regarding Hocholi and his call, it is my understanding and belief that after each week of the season the NFL grades every official from every game. The cumulative grades for the various officials are then used to determine and select the officials with best cumulative scores for the playoff games.

The NFL, however, is hanging Hochuli out because it doesn't usually publicize this fact, but it is doing so in this case due to the call being very high profile and the outcry being huge.

BroncoNut
09-16-2008, 11:52 AM
No, but playing devil's advocate - the Broncos would not even have had the opportunity to score the TD and 2 point conversion without that call.;) The Chargers, however, still had the opportunity to win the game by preventing the TD or the 2 point conversion and failed to do so.

With regards to the NFL's comments regarding Hocholi and his call, it is my understanding and belief that after each week of the season the NFL grades every official from every game. The cumulative grades for the various officials are then used to determine and select the officials with best cumulative scores for the playoff games.

The NFL, however, is hanging Hochuli out because it doesn't usually publicize this fact, but it is doing so in this case due to the call being very high profile and the outcry being huge.

That is my point exactly. I like this win as a fan, but it's also somewhat bittersweet. Hey, maybe it's just me.

BigDaddyBronco
09-16-2008, 11:59 AM
That is my point exactly. I like this win as a fan, but it's also somewhat bittersweet. Hey, maybe it's just me.
It is just you Nut. :D

I actually find the Chargers getting screwed hilarious, as it's karmic payback for years of Phyllis Rivers being a douche and for the Chargers beating us down for the last two years. Maybe next week they'll lose on another last second play and the fun will continue.

Northman
09-16-2008, 12:03 PM
Hey, maybe it's just me.

Yea, i think its just you.

BroncoNut
09-16-2008, 12:08 PM
Yea, i think its just you.

Anubis, I am sorry to say that I no longer care what you think


But BDB, can you honestly tell me that you were not disappointed with the play in that game? Let's forget about the win, did you like the way we put that game away? Letting them come back like that? That was not the azz whooping that it looked like it was going to be AND THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. Idk, maybe you're the type of competitior that likes to go out and play grabass :shrugs:

Northman
09-16-2008, 12:13 PM
Anubid, I no longer care what you think


But BDB, can you honetly tell me that you were not disappointed with the play in that game? Letting them come back like that? That was not the azz whooping that it looked like it was going to be. Idk, maybe you're the type of competitior that likes to play grabass :shrugs:


Man, do i hate Bronco fan imposters. Please, do us all a favor and get off our bandwagon Charger fan.

BroncoNut
09-16-2008, 12:14 PM
Man, do i hate Bronco fan imposters. Please, do us all a favor and get off our bandwagon Charger fan.

now that is just downright nasty.

BigDaddyBronco
09-16-2008, 12:18 PM
Anubis, I am sorry to say that I no longer care what you think


But BDB, can you honestly tell me that you were not disappointed with the play in that game? Let's forget about the win, did you like the way we put that game away? Letting them come back like that? That was not the azz whooping that it looked like it was going to be AND THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. Idk, maybe you're the type of competitior that likes to go out and play grabass :shrugs:
No, that second half made me throw up in my mouth a few times. Our defense was pathetic and we took a beating, but our offense kept it going and drove down the entire length of the field and then...

We got lucky.

Happens all the time in football, bad calls, good bounces, etc. However, like the other guys are saying, this luck didn't win us the game it just gave us an opportunity to win it. Cutler made some good throws and Royal some good catches and the Chargers didn't make the play when they had to. On top of that the Chargers then almost got a chance to kick the winning field goal, but their receiver stepped out of bounds and they ran out of clock.

A win is a win, just because we were lucky and then took advantage of our luck, doesn't diminish it to me.

Gimpygod
09-16-2008, 12:19 PM
I do think that they should keep blowing the whistle to make sure the players dont take any cheap shots or get hurt. But at the same time when a play is challenged it should not be negated because of the whistle. As much as i love getting this win and i support how the rules were applied i can feel for the Chargers that they did indeed recover a fumble. Whistle or not, it should of been overturned and i think that is what they are going to address in the offseason.


Not possible. When the whistle is blown all action must stop so that players don't get hurt outside the confines of a play. If players continue to be aggressive after the whistle they will be penalized for unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct. Again, this is a good thing as it is an attempt to keep players from being hurt. The reason this particular situation is always going to award the offense the ball is because the whistle prevents players from Scrambling to the ball to recover. If you make a rule where the ball can be given to the other side after review, even if the whistle is blown, chaos will ensue. Everybody will be surging and fighting and grappling to recover the ball regardless of the whistle being blown, effectively killing the purpose of having a whistle or anything to stop play.

turftoad
09-16-2008, 12:23 PM
NFL | Hochuli feeling remorse over Week 2 call
Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:39:44 -0700

Kevin Acee, of the San Diego Union-Tribune, reports NFL official Ed Hochuli has had a difficult time dealing with the mistake he committed during the Week 2 game between the San Diego Chargers and Denver Broncos. "He's devastated," said Mike Pereira, the NFL's supervisor of officials. "... I was talking to Ed within 10 minutes after the game was over, and he was sick. He's still sick. Everybody works so hard and wants to be perfect in a game you're not likely to ever be perfect. I've talked to him three times. He's really struggling with the fact he made such a bad call."



Ed is a good ref and a good guy. He knows he made a mistake but there is nothing he can do about it now.
I do feel bad for him. He's human.

Northman
09-16-2008, 12:28 PM
When the whistle is blown all action must stop so that players don't get hurt outside the confines of a play. If players continue to be aggressive after the whistle they will be penalized for unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct. Again, this is a good thing as it is an attempt to keep players from being hurt.

We actually agree on this. I said they should continue to blow the whistle. But, in a case where its a question of possession, ball location, or score the replay booth should be able to trump a blown whistle. Protect the players, but get the call right as that is why replay was instituted in the first place. Last night Jackson let go of the football before he reached the endzone. But no Cowboy defender jumped on the ball and when the play was reviewed it did show that Jackson fumbled or in their words "lost control of the ball" the ref had no choice but to let the Eagles retain possession.

Northman
09-16-2008, 12:29 PM
NFL | Hochuli feeling remorse over Week 2 call
Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:39:44 -0700

Kevin Acee, of the San Diego Union-Tribune, reports NFL official Ed Hochuli has had a difficult time dealing with the mistake he committed during the Week 2 game between the San Diego Chargers and Denver Broncos. "He's devastated," said Mike Pereira, the NFL's supervisor of officials. "... I was talking to Ed within 10 minutes after the game was over, and he was sick. He's still sick. Everybody works so hard and wants to be perfect in a game you're not likely to ever be perfect. I've talked to him three times. He's really struggling with the fact he made such a bad call."



Ed is a good ref and a good guy. He knows he made a mistake but there is nothing he can do about it now.
I do feel bad for him. He's human.

And yet the Chargers organization and media are trying to tear the man down for being human. How embarrassing and disgusting.

turftoad
09-16-2008, 12:30 PM
September 15, 2008, 23:08
Broncos, Chargers


NFL Referee Hochuli To Be Downgraded After Blown Week 2 Call

Associated Press, NFL.com - [Full Article]

After NFL referee Ed Hochuli acknowledged on Monday that he blew a call during the Week 2 game between the Denver Broncos and San Diego Chargers (which ultimately allowed the Broncos to have another chance to win the game), the league said that Hochuli would be downgraded in his performance evaluation. "Officials are held accountable for their calls. They are graded on every play of every game," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said. "Ed has been an outstanding official for many years, but he will be marked down for this call. Under our evaluation system, an official's grades impact his status for potentially working the playoffs and ultimately whether or not he is retained."


This sucks for Ed.

Northman
09-16-2008, 12:33 PM
You know what sucks worse? Where was the rest of his team on this? Where was the line judge? What about the other refs? I know they are trying to watch everything else as well but a line judge not seeing this? Ed shouldnt take the sole blame on that.

BigDaddyBronco
09-16-2008, 12:36 PM
The Chargers better quit whining and get over it or they'll lose next week to the Jets.

Wait, that would be excellent. :D

BroncoNut
09-16-2008, 12:37 PM
The Chargers better quit whining and get over it or they'll lose next week to the Jets.

Wait, that would be excellent. :D

They could very well lose to the puddlejumpers

MOtorboat
09-16-2008, 12:37 PM
You know what sucks worse? Where was the rest of his team on this? Where was the line judge? What about the other refs? I know they are trying to watch everything else as well but a line judge not seeing this? Ed shouldnt take the sole blame on that.

I don't think any of them could have stopped him from blowing the whistle, though.

haroldthebarrel
09-16-2008, 12:40 PM
You know what sucks worse? Where was the rest of his team on this? Where was the line judge? What about the other refs? I know they are trying to watch everything else as well but a line judge not seeing this? Ed shouldnt take the sole blame on that.

isnt this ultimately the responsibility to the umpire that is behind the qb? Or is he behind the lb. I cant remember? 'Any way, isnt it Houckley that is that man(and also has the final say anyway as the head umpire)

Northman
09-16-2008, 12:42 PM
isnt this ultimately the responsibility to the umpire that is behind the qb? Or is he behind the lb. I cant remember? 'Any way, isnt it Houckley that is that man(and also has the final say anyway as the head umpire)

Im sure the responsibility is on Ed the most. But generally whenever a theres a questionable call the refs gather to see who saw what. But MB makes a good point, the whistle is the key to it all. Probably couldnt of done anything once the whistle is blown.

Buff
09-16-2008, 12:42 PM
You know what sucks worse? Where was the rest of his team on this? Where was the line judge? What about the other refs? I know they are trying to watch everything else as well but a line judge not seeing this? Ed shouldnt take the sole blame on that.

2 things--

1.) Ed is the white-hat. The white-hat is the equivalent of the "crew-chief" in baseball-- For better or for worse, it's his crew and he's gonna be the guy in the spotlight whether it was good or bad.

2.) The rest of the other refs were NOT blowing an inadvertant whistle at that moment-- in other words, they were doing exactly what they should have been doing and letting the players play until the conclusion of the play unless they had a valid reason to blow it dead. Even if they saw everything unfold, they can't "undo" an inadvertant whistle-- especially when it comes from the white hat.

BroncoJoe
09-16-2008, 12:47 PM
You know what sucks worse? Where was the rest of his team on this? Where was the line judge? What about the other refs? I know they are trying to watch everything else as well but a line judge not seeing this? Ed shouldnt take the sole blame on that.

In their defense, it was Ed that blew the whistle. I haven't heard that any other ref did, so technically, they were doing their job.

EDIT: Guess I should have read everyone elses comments....

Here I thought I was being a genius.

Tned
09-16-2008, 12:48 PM
You know what sucks worse? Where was the rest of his team on this? Where was the line judge? What about the other refs? I know they are trying to watch everything else as well but a line judge not seeing this? Ed shouldnt take the sole blame on that.

Unfortunately, he has to take the full blame. Ed was the one in position and he had only two choices:

Blow the whistle and waive his arms to signal incomplete.
Throw the bean bag to indicate fumble.

From his vantage point, it appeared to be an incomplete, but even if someone had then walked up to him and said, "it was a fumble", it would be to late, I do believe.

topscribe
09-16-2008, 01:24 PM
Believe me, you and deacon are not near as cerebral as you two seem to think you are.

I completely understand what both of you are saying, but that is really not saying much. I just don't think Deacon interepreted my post correctly. I hope I have made MYSELF clear. Thank you very much and have a pleasant day.

That wasn't necessary, Nut. If you want to discuss issues, then fine. But
there is no reason to get personal about it. That is immature.

Please discuss the issues, not the other posters.

-----

BroncoJoe
09-16-2008, 01:33 PM
Unfortunately, he has to take the full blame. Ed was the one in position and he had only two choices:

Blow the whistle and waive his arms to signal incomplete.
Throw the bean bag to indicate fumble.

From his vantage point, it appeared to be an incomplete, but even if someone had then walked up to him and said, "it was a fumble", it would be to late, I do believe.

It sucks for the Chargers, but I don't care. I think it was Trent Dilfer on ESPN that talked about Ed's vantage point. We watching have the viewpoint from the side and near front, which shows he clearly fumbled. Ed was behind Cutler, saw the arm go back, and the ball come out while moving forward.

Ed doesn't have slow-motion, didn't have a sideline view. He also had one or two seconds to make a decision on what he saw. Once the ball hit the ground, he blew it dead.

Like I said, if the situation was reversed and the Chargers won, we'd all be pissed. I'm glad we're not.

topscribe
09-16-2008, 01:37 PM
In their defense, it was Ed that blew the whistle. I haven't heard that any other ref did, so technically, they were doing their job.

EDIT: Guess I should have read everyone elses comments....

Here I thought I was being a genius.

You're still one in my book, Joe. :2thumbs:



:D



-----

Tned
09-16-2008, 01:43 PM
2 things--

1.) Ed is the white-hat. The white-hat is the equivalent of the "crew-chief" in baseball-- For better or for worse, it's his crew and he's gonna be the guy in the spotlight whether it was good or bad.

2.) The rest of the other refs were NOT blowing an inadvertant whistle at that moment-- in other words, they were doing exactly what they should have been doing and letting the players play until the conclusion of the play unless they had a valid reason to blow it dead. Even if they saw everything unfold, they can't "undo" an inadvertant whistle-- especially when it comes from the white hat.

It wasn't them standing around 'letting play continue'. Every official on that field who's responsibility it was to watch that prat of the field (not sure if there was anyone besides Hochuli) had one of two options. Throw the bean bag, indicating fumble, or wave the arms and blow the whistle indicating incomplete pass.

Standing around and just letting play continue wasn't really an option, because that would have required a beanbag being thrown to indicate a fumble took place.

Signal incomplete or throw beanbag, the only two options available.

Northman
09-16-2008, 01:48 PM
It wasn't them standing around 'letting play continue'. Every official on that field who's responsibility it was to watch that prat of the field (not sure if there was anyone besides Hochuli) had one of two options. Throw the bean bag, indicating fumble, or wave the arms and blow the whistle indicating incomplete pass.

Standing around and just letting play continue wasn't really an option, because that would have required a beanbag being thrown to indicate a fumble took place.

Signal incomplete or throw beanbag, the only two options available.

Good point.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-16-2008, 02:45 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3591227&campaign=rsssrch&source=denver+broncos

Referees association says it stands by Hochuli after botched call

WYLIE, Texas -- Ed Hochuli received the support of the NFL Referees Association on Tuesday, two days after he botched a call at the end of the San Diego Chargers-Denver Broncos game that allowed the Broncos to keep possession and go on to score the winning points.

[+] Enlarge
Ed Hochuli

Jimmy DeFlippo/US Presswire

The NFL will give longtime official Ed Hochuli lower grades after he admitted botching a call late in the Chargers-Broncos game.

"No one feels worse about this than Ed, but like the coaches and players in our high-speed game, mistakes will occur," NFLRA executive director Tim Millis said in a statement.

"The NFLRA stands by Ed Hochuli as a 19-year veteran with multiple Super Bowl and countless playoff game experience who has the integrity and character to admit a mistake and accept the criticism that comes with it."

The crucial call occurred with the Broncos at the Chargers 1-yard-line in the final minute. Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler dropped back to pass, the ball slipped out of his hands, bounced off the grass and into the arms of Chargers linebacker Tim Dobbins.

Hochuli, a former NFLRA president, ruled it an incomplete pass. Replay ruled it a fumble, but it was spotted at the 10, where the ball hit the ground, and given to Denver because the rules did not permit possession to be awarded to San Diego because the whistle had blown.

Denver went on to score a touchdown and a 2-point conversion to win 39-38.

BroncoJoe
09-16-2008, 02:46 PM
The only thing that troubles me a bit...

It did seem like the ball went backwards. So, even if it was a pass, throwing it behind you is still a fumble or live ball.

:confused: but VERY happy.

Northman
09-16-2008, 02:48 PM
The only thing that troubles me a bit...

It did seem like the ball went backwards. So, even if it was a pass, throwing it behind you is still a fumble or live ball.

:confused: but VERY happy.

Same here. :lol:

Hawgdriver
09-16-2008, 02:55 PM
[+] Enlarge
Ed Hochuli


:laugh::D

deacon
09-16-2008, 03:00 PM
I do think that they should keep blowing the whistle to make sure the players dont take any cheap shots or get hurt. But at the same time when a play is challenged it should not be negated because of the whistle. As much as i love getting this win and i support how the rules were applied i can feel for the Chargers that they did indeed recover a fumble. Whistle or not, it should of been overturned and i think that is what they are going to address in the offseason.

I agree with you, I just don't see how the rule can be changed without everyone going full speed after the whistle. Just think what would have happened had one of three different scenerios taken place here.
1. The whistle blew and even though Cutler had picked up the ball, he threw it back down thinking the play was over and SD recovered.
2. The whistle blew and the SD player dove into Cutler trying to recover the fumble and Cutler blew out a knee from the hit.
3. Cutler had the best shot at recovering but stopped when he heard the whistle and SD recovered.

All I'm saying is that the whistle means the ball is dead. If that's not the case then the officials should throw away the whistles because they're worthless. This was a bad call. No doubt about it. I just have a hard time understanding how anyone is going to take bad calls out of the picture.

MNPatsFan
09-16-2008, 03:07 PM
Not possible. When the whistle is blown all action must stop so that players don't get hurt outside the confines of a play. If players continue to be aggressive after the whistle they will be penalized for unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct. Again, this is a good thing as it is an attempt to keep players from being hurt. The reason this particular situation is always going to award the offense the ball is because the whistle prevents players from Scrambling to the ball to recover. If you make a rule where the ball can be given to the other side after review, even if the whistle is blown, chaos will ensue. Everybody will be surging and fighting and grappling to recover the ball regardless of the whistle being blown, effectively killing the purpose of having a whistle or anything to stop play.If I am not mistaken, however, the other team can be awarded the ball under the exact same situation if a RB, WR, or TE is loses the ball and the whistle blows. According to this article:

"Were the pass/fumble rule the same as the down by contact/fumble rule, the Chargers would have been awarded possession. Instead, the Broncos scored two plays later and won 39-38 on a two-point conversion.

“It becomes a bad call that is complicated by a rule that doesn't allow (the referee) to do the right thing,” Pereira said in a phone interview.

While it has been widely reported that Hochuli blowing his whistle stopped the play and made it impossible to award the ball to the Chargers, it was actually his ruling of incomplete pass that ended the play.

'The ruling kills the play regardless of whether a whistle blows or not,' Pereira said. 'If the ruling was incomplete pass, that makes the ball dead the second it hits the ground. The whistle is factored totally out of it.'"

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/sep/15/chargers-1s16chargers22630/?chargers

I believe the aspect of the rule that may be changed is allowing the official to award the ball to the other team just like the officials can do for the down by contact/fumble rule.:salute:

Buff
09-16-2008, 03:07 PM
It wasn't them standing around 'letting play continue'. Every official on that field who's responsibility it was to watch that prat of the field (not sure if there was anyone besides Hochuli) had one of two options. Throw the bean bag, indicating fumble, or wave the arms and blow the whistle indicating incomplete pass.

Standing around and just letting play continue wasn't really an option, because that would have required a beanbag being thrown to indicate a fumble took place.

Signal incomplete or throw beanbag, the only two options available.

I guess my main point was in regard to Anubis' question about where the other officials were at during that call-- Whether they were letting play unfold or standing around with their thumbs in their asses, it's really a moot point where the other officials were at because once Hochuli blew his whistle, the play was over (because it was a QB and a pass)...

Throwing their beanbags and/or signalling turnover would have come after Hochuli's whistle (If you look at the video, he blows it dead right after it hits the ground and just before the San Diego defender picks the ball up).

So, long story short, you are correct as to what the 2-3 other officials in that area should have done-- but regardless of their actions, the outcome would have been the same.

Buff
09-16-2008, 03:12 PM
I believe the aspect of the rule that may be changed is allowing the official to award the ball to the other team just like the officials can do for the down by contact/fumble rule.:salute:

I diasgree whole heartedly-- and no just because of sunday's outcome...

I think it's a moronic rule to allow outcomes to be changes after the whistle has blown... Players are always taught to play until the whistle, now we're arguing that they ought to be aware of whats going on after the whistle...

Then we get situations like we had 2 years ago in the Denver v. San Fran game where Larry Nemmers (the worst official in the history of the NFL) awards a fumble to the other team despite the fact that the "fumble recovery" was a guy nonchalantly grabbing the ball off the ground 10 seconds after the play was over. Too much room for an error in judgement.

topscribe
09-16-2008, 03:21 PM
If I am not mistaken, however, the other team can be awarded the ball under the exact same situation if a RB, WR, or TE is loses the ball and the whistle blows. According to this article:

"Were the pass/fumble rule the same as the down by contact/fumble rule, the Chargers would have been awarded possession. Instead, the Broncos scored two plays later and won 39-38 on a two-point conversion.

“It becomes a bad call that is complicated by a rule that doesn't allow (the referee) to do the right thing,” Pereira said in a phone interview.

While it has been widely reported that Hochuli blowing his whistle stopped the play and made it impossible to award the ball to the Chargers, it was actually his ruling of incomplete pass that ended the play.

'The ruling kills the play regardless of whether a whistle blows or not,' Pereira said. 'If the ruling was incomplete pass, that makes the ball dead the second it hits the ground. The whistle is factored totally out of it.'"

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/sep/15/chargers-1s16chargers22630/?chargers

I believe the aspect of the rule that may be changed is allowing the official to award the ball to the other team just like the officials can do for the down by contact/fumble rule.:salute:

Hmmm . . . well then, that begs the question: If the signal for incomplete
pass is what ended the play, and the ball was dead the instant it hit the
ground, then that would seem the subsequent ruling of . . . whatever it was
. . . that put the ball back on the 10 yard line was also a bad call.

The point is, the signal and whistle killed the play. Why then was the play
continued to where "fumble" came into the picture? The play should have
been dead at that point, shouldn't it? Incomplete pass. :whoknows:

-----

MNPatsFan
09-16-2008, 03:25 PM
I diasgree whole heartedly-- and no just because of sunday's outcome...

I think it's a moronic rule to allow outcomes to be changes after the whistle has blown... Players are always taught to play until the whistle, now we're arguing that they ought to be aware of whats going on after the whistle...

Then we get situations like we had 2 years ago in the Denver v. San Fran game where Larry Nemmers (the worst official in the history of the NFL) awards a fumble to the other team despite the fact that the "fumble recovery" was a guy nonchalantly grabbing the ball off the ground 10 seconds after the play was over. Too much room for an error in judgement.Buff, I am just pointing out that NFL rules presently allow the officials to award the ball to the other team after the whistle has blown under the the down by contact/fumble rule. I'm not sure why the rule should be different for pass/fumble rule.:confused:

I am not advocating one rule over the other, I am merely advocating that the rules should be the same. Either prohibit the officials from awarding the ball to the other team after the whistle has blown under both rules or allow the officials to award the ball to the other team after the whistle has blown under both rules.

Buff are you advocating that the rules should be different or that the officials should be prohibited from awarding the ball to the other team after the whistle has blown under both rules?:confused:

Buff
09-16-2008, 03:31 PM
Hmmm . . . well then, that begs the question: If the signal for incomplete
pass is what ended the play, and the ball was dead the instant it hit the
ground, then that would seem the subsequent ruling of . . . whatever it was
. . . that put the ball back on the 10 yard line was also a bad call.

The point is, the signal and whistle killed the play. Why then was the play
continued to where "fumble" came into the picture? The play should have
been dead at that point, shouldn't it? Incomplete pass. :whoknows:

-----

I believe what happened is that Hochuli, essentially, reversed his decision from an incomplete pass to a fumble after reviewing the play, but because the play was initially blown dead on an incomplete pass from a QB (and not a fumble from any other position player), any evidence that came after the blown-whistle became inadmissable. Thus, they have to treat the play as though it were an inadvertant whistle, and since the ball happened to be lying on the ground when the whistle blew, that becomes the dead ball spot.

(That's just my interpretation, I could be wrong)

MNPatsFan
09-16-2008, 03:32 PM
Hmmm . . . well then, that begs the question: If the signal for incomplete
pass is what ended the play, and the ball was dead the instant it hit the
ground, then that would seem the subsequent ruling of . . . whatever it was
. . . that put the ball back on the 10 yard line was also a bad call.

The point is, the signal and whistle killed the play. Why then was the play
continued to where "fumble" came into the picture? The play should have
been dead at that point, shouldn't it? Incomplete pass. :whoknows:

-----My understanding is the ball was placed at the 10 yard line because that is where the ball hit the ground after the fumble and therefore, under the NFL rules that is where the ball is to be placed.

Buff
09-16-2008, 03:55 PM
Buff are you advocating that the rules should be different or that the officials should be prohibited from awarding the ball to the other team after the whistle has blown under both rules?:confused:

I'm arguing the latter... And that the rules committee was wrong for tweaking the rule a coouple years back.

Once the whistle has blown, the play should be over. I understand that they were trying to overturn calls where the runner was ruled down by contact incorrectly--but I think it creates more problems than it fixes.

topscribe
09-16-2008, 04:04 PM
My understanding is the ball was placed at the 10 yard line because that is where the ball hit the ground after the fumble and therefore, under the NFL rules that is where the ball is to be placed.

Well, I guess I'm just a little obtuse here. But it is my understanding if the
whistle blows, the play is over. The ref signaled incomplete and blew the
whistle. That's it. How then can it be reversed to fumble when play cannot
be resumed after the whistle blows?

What a mess.

Far as I'm concerned, the whole thing was so botched, from the football just
flying out of Cutler's hands, to the erroneous signal, to the inerrant whistle,
to the unbelievable reversal and puzzling spot of the ball.

In the end, no matter how it happened, the better team won the game. Had
it not been for that very rare gaff by Cutler, the Broncos would have won,
anyway. And they still had to earn it after all was settled on that call.

I'm satisfied that the game turned out as it should have. And I believe I
would hold that opinion even as a neutral observer.

-----

deacon
09-16-2008, 04:12 PM
I was just thinking. (smelled something burning didn't you?) On monday night's game DeSean Jackson threw down the ball short of the goal line. This should have been ruled a fumble which would have meant Dallas would have easily recovered. It was ruled that way on replay but Philly was given the ball on Dallas' one yard line.

There was no difference in this play from the one involving Denver. Both were blown calls and both were awarded to the team who fumbled. But you don't hear a word about it. Know why? Cause, even though philly scored on the next play Dallas still won the game.

My point is that the fuss is generated (even in this thread) not by the bad call, or even awarding Denver the ball, but because Denver won the game. Had SD stopped Denver it would be a non-issue. Seems kinda wrong to me. Fans should be screaming just as loudly about the Philly call.

(I edited this because I mixed up Dallas and Philly when I said who got the ball. Didn't notice it until I read it in the quote.)

Gimpygod
09-16-2008, 04:35 PM
We actually agree on this. I said they should continue to blow the whistle. But, in a case where its a question of possession, ball location, or score the replay booth should be able to trump a blown whistle. Protect the players, but get the call right as that is why replay was instituted in the first place. Last night Jackson let go of the football before he reached the endzone. But no Cowboy defender jumped on the ball and when the play was reviewed it did show that Jackson fumbled or in their words "lost control of the ball" the ref had no choice but to let the Eagles retain possession.


Not being argumentative but what you are suggesting would castrate the idea of a dead ball. If possession can change after a whistle has been blown then every coach in the league would demand, rightly, their players jump on every ball, dive into every pile and fight for possession: I guess up until the ball has been placed for the next snap. After the whistle is blown, players let up.. How do you know one of the offense of linemen, wide receivers, running back or whoever wouldn't have been more diligent in pursuit of the loose ball and actually recovered if the whistle hadn't blown signaling the end of the play? If you answer any other way than, "I don't," you aren't being reasonable. Besides, I hate the Chargers and wouldn't want to see any rule changes made on their behalf... I wonder if that's reasonable?:confused::beer:

BigDaddyBronco
09-16-2008, 04:40 PM
I was just thinking. (smelled something burning didn't you?) On monday night's game DeSean Jackson threw down the ball short of the goal line. This should have been ruled a fumble which would have meant Dallas would have easily recovered. It was ruled that way on replay but Dallas was given the ball on Philly's one yard line.

There was no difference in this play from the one involving Denver. Both were blown calls and both were awarded to the team who fumbled. But you don't hear a word about it. Know why? Cause, even though philly scored on the next play Dallas still won the game.

My point is that the fuss is generated (even in this thread) not by the bad call, or even awarding Denver the ball, but because Denver won the game. Had SD stopped Denver it would be a non-issue. Seems kinda wrong to me. Fans should be screaming just as loudly about the Philly call.
The only difference is that a Cowboys player didn't pick it up. They just walked by the ball as if it was a dead ball, but your point is still valid. The ref mistakenly read the play and blew his whistle, happens all the time in the NFL.

spikerman
09-16-2008, 04:49 PM
The way I understand it, the difference between the "down by contact" rule and the "incompletion" comes down to the timing of the recovery. Typically, when you have a review on a "down by contact" play, the player has already fumbled and the opposing team has recovered the ball BEFORE the whistle blew. The play can be reviewed and reversed because if the play shows that it was a fumble and the opposing team recovered the ball before the play was killed, the recovery is simply a continuation of the play. The whistle had no effect on the play. What happened Sunday is different because the whistle blew and the incompletion ruling was made BEFORE the recovery. At that point, the play is dead. NOTHING that happens after that (short of a dead ball foul) matters. This is done for player protection.

The situation in the game last night was similar to the game on Sunday with a major difference. The official at the goal line did not blow his whistle to stop the play. The reason the Eagles were correctly awarded the ball at the one yard line is because no player from either team attempted to recover the ball. Since the ball was just laying there for a period of time, the official then blew the whistle to kill the play. Since Philadelphia was last in possession of the ball it is still the Eagles' ball, first down from the one.

Does my rambling make any sense at all?

BroncoJoe
09-16-2008, 04:50 PM
The only difference is that a Cowboys player didn't pick it up. They just walked by the ball as if it was a dead ball, but your point is still valid. The ref mistakenly read the play and blew his whistle, happens all the time in the NFL.

That's the point.

Buff
09-16-2008, 05:00 PM
The way I understand it, the difference between the "down by contact" rule and the "incompletion" comes down to the timing of the recovery. Typically, when you have a review on a "down by contact" play, the player has already fumbled and the opposing team has recovered the ball BEFORE the whistle blew. The play can be reviewed and reversed because if the play shows that it was a fumble and the opposing team recovered the ball before the play was killed, the recovery is simply a continuation of the play. The whistle had no effect on the play. What happened Sunday is different because the whistle blew and the incompletion ruling was made BEFORE the recovery. At that point, the play is dead. NOTHING that happens after that (short of a dead ball foul) matters. This is done for player protection.

The situation in the game last night was similar to the game on Sunday with a major difference. The official at the goal line did not blow his whistle to stop the play. The reason the Eagles were correctly awarded the ball at the one yard line is because no player from either team attempted to recover the ball. Since the ball was just laying there for a period of time, the official then blew the whistle to kill the play. Since Philadelphia was last in possession of the ball it is still the Eagles' ball, first down from the one.

Does my rambling make any sense at all?


Your rambling does make sense-- But there is one distinction I think you missed (emphasis on 'i think' as I am by no means an expert on this)... The rules committee tweaked the rule a year or two back so that now fumbles CAN be reviewed even if the recovery took place AFTER the whistle. The reason it could not be reviewed in this instance is because the "fumble" was not initially ruled a fumble, it was ruled an incomplete pass-- And the rule that was tweaked allows for the review of fumbles after the whistle, but does not allow for the review of incomplete passes after the whistle.

In the case of the Philly game, Dallas simply didn't recover the fumble, otherwise that play could and should have gone to Dallas.

So the difference is not a "time of recovery" issue, but rather, a different set of rules for "down by contact" and "incomplete pass".

spikerman
09-16-2008, 05:05 PM
Your rambling does make sense and you're 98% correct-- But there is one distinction I think you missed (emphasis on 'i think' as I am by no means an expert on this)... The rules committee tweaked the rule a year or two back so that now fumbles CAN be reviewed even if the recovery took place AFTER the whistle.
I'm not entirely sure about how the NFL rule reads on that. IMO it would be wrong to award the ball to a team who recovered it after the whistle because by rule the teams should have stopped their action at that point. It doesn't make sense to me to reward a player who does not stop on the whistle, but like I said, I don't know for sure so I can't argue the point.


In the case of the Philly game, Dallas simply didn't recover the fumble, otherwise that play could and should have gone to Dallas.

That's what I was trying to say. You just said it better.

Buff
09-16-2008, 05:11 PM
I'm not entirely sure about how the NFL rule reads on that. IMO it would be wrong to award the ball to a team who recovered it after the whistle because by rule the teams should have stopped their action at that point. It doesn't make sense to me to reward a player who does not stop on the whistle, but like I said, I don't know for sure so I can't argue the point.
.

I agree 110%, and many were against the rule, which is why the rule change was so hotly contested in the 1st place... I don't anticipate any rule changes to result from this...

And if you recall, Denver was screwed on this very rule by Larry Nemmers in the Denver vs. San Francisco season finale 2 years ago... I can't remember all the details, but basically the Broncos player fumbled, was ruled down by contact... Virtually everyone quit playing after the whistle, and a san francisco player nonchalantly grabbed the ball off the ground (which seemed like a non-issue as everyone had quit playing)... Then, upon review, Nemmers ruled that it was a fumble and San Fran recovered.

I remember being appalled by the call at the time and have been against the rule in principle ever since.

The whistle should mark the end of the play. Period.

BroncoJoe
09-16-2008, 05:16 PM
I agree 110%, and many were against the rule, which is why the rule change was so hotly contested in the 1st place... I don't anticipate any rule changes to result from this...

And if you recall, Denver was screwed on this very rule by Larry Nemmers in the Denver vs. San Francisco season finale 2 years ago... I can't remember all the details, but basically the Broncos player fumbled, was ruled down by contact... Virtually everyone quit playing after the whistle, and a san francisco player nonchalantly grabbed the ball off the ground (which seemed like a non-issue as everyone had quit playing)... Then, upon review, Nemmers ruled that it was a fumble and San Fran recovered.

I remember being appalled by the call at the time and have been against the rule in principle ever since.

The whistle should mark the end of the play. Period.

I hate it when people say 110%.

:heh:

topscribe
09-16-2008, 05:18 PM
I hate it when people say 110%.

:heh:

I agree with you . . . umm, 101%.

-----

Gimpygod
09-16-2008, 05:38 PM
I hate it when people say 110%.

:heh:


Which is why I invented this:

"Every time an athlete says he gives more than 100%, somewhere an adorable mathematician dies a horrible death."

deacon
09-16-2008, 06:12 PM
The way I understand it, the difference between the "down by contact" rule and the "incompletion" comes down to the timing of the recovery. Typically, when you have a review on a "down by contact" play, the player has already fumbled and the opposing team has recovered the ball BEFORE the whistle blew. The play can be reviewed and reversed because if the play shows that it was a fumble and the opposing team recovered the ball before the play was killed, the recovery is simply a continuation of the play. The whistle had no effect on the play. What happened Sunday is different because the whistle blew and the incompletion ruling was made BEFORE the recovery. At that point, the play is dead. NOTHING that happens after that (short of a dead ball foul) matters. This is done for player protection.

The situation in the game last night was similar to the game on Sunday with a major difference. The official at the goal line did not blow his whistle to stop the play. The reason the Eagles were correctly awarded the ball at the one yard line is because no player from either team attempted to recover the ball. Since the ball was just laying there for a period of time, the official then blew the whistle to kill the play. Since Philadelphia was last in possession of the ball it is still the Eagles' ball, first down from the one.

Does my rambling make any sense at all?

But when the official signaled touchdown that signal means the ball is dead. He didn't have to blow the whistle as it's never blown on a touchdown.

Tned
09-16-2008, 06:24 PM
I'm not entirely sure about how the NFL rule reads on that. IMO it would be wrong to award the ball to a team who recovered it after the whistle because by rule the teams should have stopped their action at that point. It doesn't make sense to me to reward a player who does not stop on the whistle, but like I said, I don't know for sure so I can't argue the point.

That's what I was trying to say. You just said it better.

Buff is correct. Prior to the '07 season, they modified the rules where even if the whistle has been blown (and the ref called down by contact), that if in the "continuation of the play" the other team recovered the ball. If a challenge showed it was in fact a fumble, that the recovering team could be given the ball, but not advance it.

Again, this is after the whistle blows, the ball can be recovered in the "continuation of the play".

"Continuation of play" is essentially what we saw with Jay's fumble, and SD recovering, however the rule change only applied to down by contact later being reviewed and determined to be a fumble.

honz
09-16-2008, 06:31 PM
The only difference is that a Cowboys player didn't pick it up. They just walked by the ball as if it was a dead ball, but your point is still valid. The ref mistakenly read the play and blew his whistle, happens all the time in the NFL.
It doesn't really matter. That call in the MNF game was the exact same call as the Broncos' game. A fumble that would have clearly been recovered by Dallas (if you watch the play again you can see Pacman look back at the ball and start to go after it until he sees the TD signal from the refs), but the play was called dead so their only choice was to give the ball back to Philly. Slightly different circumstances, but the exact same call. I am astounded that nobody in the media is making the connection and making a big deal about it being the same call as in our game.

BigDaddyBronco
09-16-2008, 06:53 PM
It doesn't really matter. That call in the MNF game was the exact same call as the Broncos' game. A fumble that would have clearly been recovered by Dallas (if you watch the play again you can see Pacman look back at the ball and start to go after it until he sees the TD signal from the refs), but the play was called dead so their only choice was to give the ball back to Philly. Slightly different circumstances, but the exact same call. I am astounded that nobody in the media is making the connection and making a big deal about it being the same call as in our game.
I agree, the only difference was the reaction of the opposing team's players. In one case there was a reaction and in the other there wasn't. Obviously the ref will be influenced by the actions of the players around him, but ultimately it is his decision to blow the whistle or not.

If Pacman would have picked up that ball, it would have had the same exact call as the Bronco game.

I still can't believe the amount of shit Houchuli is getting for being human.

spikerman
09-16-2008, 06:58 PM
But when the official signaled touchdown that signal means the ball is dead. He didn't have to blow the whistle as it's never blown on a touchdown.
I need to see the play again. I don't remember the official giving the touchdown signal. I only remember him looking at the ball as the players ran past it. If someone can confirm that he gave the touchdown signal then you're right - the situation is the same. Once that call is made, the play is over and the ball is dead at that spot.

topscribe
09-16-2008, 06:59 PM
Buff is correct. Prior to the '07 season, they modified the rules where even if the whistle has been blown (and the ref called down by contact), that if in the "continuation of the play" the other team recovered the ball. If a challenge showed it was in fact a fumble, that the recovering team could be given the ball, but not advance it.

Again, this is after the whistle blows, the ball can be recovered in the "continuation of the play".

"Continuation of play" is essentially what we saw with Jay's fumble, and SD recovering, however the rule change only applied to down by contact later being reviewed and determined to be a fumble.

It would seem to me, then, that we are looking at a bad rule. If there can be
a "continuation of play," then we may have some players continuing and
others quitting. That not only lends itself possibly to an outcome that
otherwise would not have happened, had it not been for a whistle, but also
increases the risk of injury.

That's the way it would seem to me, anyway, if this makes any sense.

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Lonestar
09-16-2008, 06:59 PM
I agree, the only difference was the reaction of the opposing team's players. In one case there was a reaction and in the other there wasn't. Obviously the ref will be influenced by the actions of the players around him, but ultimately it is his decision to blow the whistle or not.

If Pacman would have picked up that ball, it would have had the same exact call as the Bronco game.

I still can't believe the amount of shit Houchuli is getting for being human.


The guy is the best ref in the NFL has reffed more playoff games than anyone..

The guy made a mistake and I can understand how he thought it was a forward pass from his perspective, being behind Jay when he saw teh ball come lose..

You would think he was caught in a bathroom stall with an 8 year old boy.

Let he has no fault throw the first stones..

scott.475
09-16-2008, 08:21 PM
Mike Carey is still reffing, and his crews have been pretty sorry. He even reffed the Superbowl...not sure how that happened. Just had to say that.

pnbronco
09-16-2008, 08:28 PM
Hochuli has been the gold-standard in officiating for the last 3-5 years, IMO... And I think your point is valid, he shouldn't be hung out to dry for one bad call... The guy's still a great official.

But we also need to acknowledge that we probably wouldn't be the voices of reason if the call had gone against the Broncos. It's easy for us to sit here now at 2-0 with a 2 game lead in the division and tell people to settle down. I can fully understand Chargers fans not letting this go easily. I probably wouldn't either.

Buff I totally agree with you on this. Had that gone against the Broncos I would be so upset, I'm not sure when I would have gotten over it. If this had happened when the score was 21 - 3 I would have said well dang, but the Chargers came back when we should of had them down and out and I can't say I like the way it ended. Glad they got the W, but hate the way it happened.

omac
09-17-2008, 06:59 PM
I also hate it that the NFL is throwing him under a bus, because of a whiny head coach in Norv Turner, who can't admit to the fact that in the end, they had 2 chances to win the game and they blew it .... get it ... blew it ... get it ... ble ... eh :D

omac
09-17-2008, 07:01 PM
On a side note, I know Turner hasn't been at this head coaching thing very long, but his whining sure can't garner him any respect in the coaching community and definitely not with NFL officials. Sure hope for Ed's sake, they stick it to the Chargers every chance they get. :cool:

scott.475
09-17-2008, 10:09 PM
Hochuli to fans: "I failed miserably"
By Nick Groke, The Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10490354?source=rss

"In e-mails sent to angry San Diego Chargers fans, embattled NFL referee Ed Hochuli admitted he blew a no-turnover call late in the Broncos-Chargers game Sunday, saying he "failed miserably."

Hochuli, a 19-year veteran with two Super Bowls to his credit, has been swamped by letters from Chargers fans upset about the Broncos' 39-38 victory at Invesco Field at Mile High. According to The San Diego Union-Tribune, a contrite Hochuli responded to some of the e-mails.

"I'm getting hundreds of e-mails — hate mail — but I'm responding to it all. People deserve a response," he wrote to several Chargers fans, according to the newspaper.

"You can rest assured that nothing anyone can say can make me feel worse than I already feel about my mistake on the fumble play. You have no idea. ...

"Affecting the outcome of a game is a devastating feeling. Officials strive for perfection — I failed miserably. Although it does no good to say it, I am very, very sorry."

The crucial call occurred with the Broncos at the Chargers' 1-yard line. Denver's Jay Cutler dropped back to pass and the ball slipped out of his hands, bounced off the grass and into the arms of San Diego linebacker Tim Dobbins.

Hochuli, a former president of the NFL Referees Association, ruled the play an incomplete pass.

Replay ruled the play a fumble, but the ball was spotted at the 10-yard line, where it hit the ground, and given to the Broncos. The rules did not permit possession to be awarded to the Chargers because Hochuli had blown his whistle. The Broncos scored with 24 seconds left — on a fourth-down, 4-yard touchdown pass — and made a two-point conversion to win.

The NFL Refrees Association on Tuesday announced their support for Hochuli.

"No one feels worse about this than Ed, but like the coaches and players in our high-speed game, mistakes will occur," NFLRA executive director Tim Millis said in a statement. "The NFLRA stands by Ed Hochuli as a 19-year veteran with multiple Super Bowl and countless playoff game experience who has the integrity and character to admit a mistake and accept the criticism that comes with it."

Denver Post wire reports contributed to this report"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Way to keep it classy, Charger fans. Rivers and (most) of you all seem to be cut from the same classless mold.

Know what else I found amusing? We have politicians who are continually pushing, pushing, pushing us toward socialism and few people seem to care. But, blow a call during a football game? THAT will get people writing letters!

Northman
09-17-2008, 10:11 PM
Jesus, the tackiness and classless Charger faithful have gone over ten fold. I say every Bronco fan right Ed happy emails for the great service he has done for 19 years.

Krugan
09-17-2008, 10:16 PM
It was a crap call, that is fact.

Next fact, shut you cry hole people. The game would have been over had that super bowl bound group of Defensive superstars, stopped those next 3 plays, or that one that equalled 2 points.

Hey wait, had they stopped any of the other hrmmm, 6 scores during that game there wouldnt be a big sand in the crack fest going on.

MOtorboat
09-17-2008, 10:18 PM
Hochuli is a great referee and a good man.

I wonder what the saints who are the Chargers think about Philip Rivers interception, or the lack of coverage on Brandon Marshall. Was that "unacceptable," too?

We were told that Hochuli's decision was "unacceptable" from Norv Turner. What about his defense's performance? If it wasn't so impossibly hypocritical, I wouldn't bring it up.

Tebow4Ever
09-17-2008, 10:20 PM
Hochuli has nothing to apologize for....NOTHING!

CoachChaz
09-17-2008, 10:21 PM
This stuff happens every week in the NFL. It just happened to affect the biggest whiners in the league this time.

MOtorboat
09-17-2008, 10:23 PM
Hochuli has nothing to apologize for....NOTHING!

Um, yes he does...but he also needs to stand strong and realize that mistakes happen everywhere (ask Antonio Cromartie...he looked like a bitch this week). That said, he did the correct thing in the situation.

NameUsedBefore
09-17-2008, 10:24 PM
I feel terrible for Hochuli.

ktrain
09-17-2008, 10:32 PM
Sing along people (sung to the sparklers theme song:

San Diego Super Whiners, San Diego Super Whiners..........

I lived in SD for two ******* years, and what a bunch of low class two-bit pieces of shit inhabit america's most classless city. IMO, it is the most overrated city in America with the biggest bunch of whiners in North America!

What most people (especially in San Diego) are also forgetting is that it is not like San Diego actually made a play and had it taken away from them. The Cutler fumble was a completely unforced error and would have been a total "gift wrapped" present to the Chargers that just happened to bounce into the defenders hands.

An analogy would be like a guy finding a counterfeit lotto ticket that had the winning numbers on it, but when he goes to claim the prize finds that the ticket is invalid.....yes you got screwed, but you got screwed out of a fluke that you did not earn anyways

mikthebik
09-17-2008, 11:04 PM
Hochuli to fans: "I failed miserably"
By Nick Groke, The Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10490354?source=rss

"In e-mails sent to angry San Diego Chargers fans, embattled NFL referee Ed Hochuli admitted he blew a no-turnover call late in the Broncos-Chargers game Sunday, saying he "failed miserably."

Hochuli, a 19-year veteran with two Super Bowls to his credit, has been swamped by letters from Chargers fans upset about the Broncos' 39-38 victory at Invesco Field at Mile High. According to The San Diego Union-Tribune, a contrite Hochuli responded to some of the e-mails.

"I'm getting hundreds of e-mails — hate mail — but I'm responding to it all. People deserve a response," he wrote to several Chargers fans, according to the newspaper.

"You can rest assured that nothing anyone can say can make me feel worse than I already feel about my mistake on the fumble play. You have no idea. ...

"Affecting the outcome of a game is a devastating feeling. Officials strive for perfection — I failed miserably. Although it does no good to say it, I am very, very sorry."

The crucial call occurred with the Broncos at the Chargers' 1-yard line. Denver's Jay Cutler dropped back to pass and the ball slipped out of his hands, bounced off the grass and into the arms of San Diego linebacker Tim Dobbins.

Hochuli, a former president of the NFL Referees Association, ruled the play an incomplete pass.

Replay ruled the play a fumble, but the ball was spotted at the 10-yard line, where it hit the ground, and given to the Broncos. The rules did not permit possession to be awarded to the Chargers because Hochuli had blown his whistle. The Broncos scored with 24 seconds left — on a fourth-down, 4-yard touchdown pass — and made a two-point conversion to win.

The NFL Refrees Association on Tuesday announced their support for Hochuli.

"No one feels worse about this than Ed, but like the coaches and players in our high-speed game, mistakes will occur," NFLRA executive director Tim Millis said in a statement. "The NFLRA stands by Ed Hochuli as a 19-year veteran with multiple Super Bowl and countless playoff game experience who has the integrity and character to admit a mistake and accept the criticism that comes with it."

Denver Post wire reports contributed to this report"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Way to keep it classy, Charger fans. Rivers and (most) of you all seem to be cut from the same classless mold.

Know what else I found amusing? We have politicians who are continually pushing, pushing, pushing us toward socialism and few people seem to care. But, blow a call during a football game? THAT will get people writing letters!

Let's see, the SD Union Sports editor Tim Sullivan published a great post, asking SD fans to judge Ed on his record, and honor his appology. The fans I know at work were supportive of Ed and his mistake. Then again, SD does have the Raider-like fans who seem to think parading around in their lifted SPT(Small Pecker Truck) vehicles with Charger flags attached, makes them the equivalent of Marines ready to conquer, well someone. Evidently Bronco fans have none of these a-holes.

ikillz0mbies
09-17-2008, 11:08 PM
Oh god....I'm tired of hearing this "controversy". Look, he made a bad call and he acknowledged it. He realized the mistake he made and has apologized. The Chargers can b*tch all they want about him costing them the game, but the Chargers had the whole game to beat them. They also had a 4th down and a 2 pt conversion to stop them. Did they do it? No. Why because mentally they could not overcome a bad call. Shut up and play on.

Northman
09-17-2008, 11:10 PM
Let's see, the SD Union Sports editor Tim Sullivan published a great post, asking SD fans to judge Ed on his record, and honor his appology. The fans I know at work were supportive of Ed and his mistake. Then again, SD does have the Raider-like fans who seem to think parading around in their lifted SPT(Small Pecker Truck) vehicles with Charger flags attached, makes them the equivalent of Marines ready to conquer, well someone. Evidently Bronco fans have none of these a-holes.

Definitely not on the level.

dogfish
09-17-2008, 11:16 PM
i wonder where they found ed's email? if i had it, i would definintely send him a message of support, because IMO the guy has consistently been the best ref in the league for a while now. . . it was very out of character for him to make such a bad call, and he deserves to be let off the hook this time. . .

mikthebik
09-17-2008, 11:19 PM
Sing along people (sung to the sparklers theme song:

San Diego Super Whiners, San Diego Super Whiners..........

I lived in SD for two ******* years, and what a bunch of low class two-bit pieces of shit inhabit america's most classless city. IMO, it is the most overrated city in America with the biggest bunch of whiners in North America!

What most people (especially in San Diego) are also forgetting is that it is not like San Diego actually made a play and had it taken away from them. The Cutler fumble was a completely unforced error and would have been a total "gift wrapped" present to the Chargers that just happened to bounce into the defenders hands.

An analogy would be like a guy finding a counterfeit lotto ticket that had the winning numbers on it, but when he goes to claim the prize finds that the ticket is invalid.....yes you got screwed, but you got screwed out of a fluke that you did not earn anyways


Ya know d'head,this game was a disaster in accurate officiating. They made mistakes, they admitted them. So evidently flukes that occur, which result in
advantage to the side that made a mistake, but still result in that side retaining advantage, despite obvious ethical conflicts, do not bother you? No problem. Do you represent your other Denver fans???

Gamechanger
09-17-2008, 11:34 PM
give the man a break, he made a mistake, the end

mikthebik
09-17-2008, 11:44 PM
Definitely not on the level.

OK, I give up. Please inform my clueless self of WTF this means????

dogfish
09-17-2008, 11:45 PM
Ya know d'head,this game was a disaster in accurate officiating. They made mistakes, they admitted them. So evidently flukes that occur, which result in
advantage to the side that made a mistake, but still result in that side retaining advantage, despite obvious ethical conflicts, do not bother you? No problem. Do you represent your other Denver fans???



keep the name-calling to yourself, this isn't the smack forum. . .

scott.475
09-17-2008, 11:50 PM
Ya know d'head,

Like I said earlier, SD fans are all class...:sarcasm:

Do your own fan boards just really suck? Just wondering, because other than going to the Buffalo site to send best wishes to Kevin Everett last year, I have never posted to another teams board, especially to just talk smack.

denbroncofan26
09-18-2008, 12:01 AM
Somewhat interesting video which explains the den-sd call as well as others from NFL Network http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ae6b20

shank
09-18-2008, 12:09 AM
i feel bad for ed. he made a mistake and is being crucified for it. i can honestly say that i'd be mad if it happened to us, but i would never in a million years sink low enough to send the man hate mail.

from total access, he's been described as taking the hole situation very hard, which is absurd. he has apologized for a mistake and this shouldn't be affecting his life beyond that. i can't believe people are making his life hard over a mistake which almost any other ref would make (he's been the best for years).

anyone who sent ed hateful mail should get gonorrhea from a tractor.

topscribe
09-18-2008, 12:10 AM
OK, I give up. Please inform my clueless self of WTF this means????

You need to read the previous post and then figure it out from there.

It was pretty easy for me . . . :coffee:

-----

shank
09-18-2008, 12:23 AM
ed has something to apologize for, but nothing to feel bad about.

we had the same type of rule "lose" us the game against chicago last year, and we as fans didn't whine/bitch/insult/threaten the ref enough to entice a public apology...

ed's reaction to this really tells me alot about chargers fans.

Tned
09-18-2008, 12:25 AM
i wonder where they found ed's email? if i had it, i would definintely send him a message of support, because IMO the guy has consistently been the best ref in the league for a while now. . . it was very out of character for him to make such a bad call, and he deserves to be let off the hook this time. . .

Here you go.

http://www.jshfirm.com/custom.cfm?name=c_attorneydetail.cfm&id=7

blueblood15
09-18-2008, 12:34 AM
i wonder where they found ed's email? if i had it, i would definintely send him a message of support, because IMO the guy has consistently been the best ref in the league for a while now. . . it was very out of character for him to make such a bad call, and he deserves to be let off the hook this time. . .

GO AHEAD AND EMAIL HIM!

ehochuli@jshfirm.com

OR CALL HIM

602-263-1719 I called it, it is legit.

I got this here: http://www.jshfirm.com/custom.cfm?na...etail.cfm&id=7

Its from his lawfirm, he is a lawyer in Phoenix.

topscribe
09-18-2008, 12:35 AM
Sing along people (sung to the sparklers theme song:

San Diego Super Whiners, San Diego Super Whiners..........

I lived in SD for two ******* years, and what a bunch of low class two-bit pieces of shit inhabit america's most classless city. IMO, it is the most overrated city in America with the biggest bunch of whiners in North America!

What most people (especially in San Diego) are also forgetting is that it is not like San Diego actually made a play and had it taken away from them. The Cutler fumble was a completely unforced error and would have been a total "gift wrapped" present to the Chargers that just happened to bounce into the defenders hands.

An analogy would be like a guy finding a counterfeit lotto ticket that had the winning numbers on it, but when he goes to claim the prize finds that the ticket is invalid.....yes you got screwed, but you got screwed out of a fluke that you did not earn anyways

Hochuli is being treated as if he cost the Chargers the game. He did not cost
them the game. They were about to receive an unearned gift, but it didn't
work out for them. With the Broncos on the Chargers' one-yard line with a
second and goal, the Chargers were about to lose the game, anyway.

But then, the Chargers received a gift anyway: Denver was moved back to
the ten-yard line and a down taken away. Up to this point, the Chargers had
done absolutely nothing to earn either possession of the ball or taking away
field position and a down from the Broncos.

The Chargers had not yet lost the game. All they had to do was to keep the
Broncos out of the end zone with a fourth and goal at the four-yard line.
They couldn't. So then all they had to do was to prevent a two-point
conversion with their vaunted defense. They couldn't.

Two plays. All the Chargers had to do was to stop the Broncos on one of
them. Just one.

Hochuli had nothing to do with all that. Before the Chargers fans come down
on the referee, they had better consider the multiple failures of their fallen
heroes, which really caused their defeat.

But they won't. It figures.

-----

blueblood15
09-18-2008, 12:35 AM
O... didnt see you beat me to it. My bad.

Everbody should go here and laugh too. http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?p=2078655

dogfish
09-18-2008, 12:43 AM
thanks guys!


:beer:

Lonestar
09-18-2008, 12:53 AM
sent him the following..

I saw the play you made the mistake on..

From your point of view I'd have done the same thing.. Looked like an incomplete pass to me and you blew the whistle to make sure folks do not get hurt....

Please do not allow the morons to get to you.. I have been a fan of yours for as long as I can remember. You are IMO one of the best, if not the best Refs in sports..

Looking forward to watching your games in the future, all the best,

shank
09-18-2008, 12:57 AM
i also emailed him my support

frenchfan
09-18-2008, 01:05 AM
This stuff happens every week in the NFL. It just happened to affect the biggest whiners in the league this time.That's true.

And you know, here about "our" football (I mean soccer), mistakes are even higher. We are used to see referees making mistake. You can't imagine how well football is about referees in regards of soccer (ask my European friends about that ;) ).

People should understand that a referee is not a machine. He's Human and makes mistakes. Of course, there is more light about this one, but who can tell that a holding not called or something doesn't have an impact on a game???
Mistakes are part of the game (whatever they come from players, coaches or referees) and people should understand that. Period.

Of course I can understand the bitter taste SD have. But it's football... Just accept the mistakes (whining about that won't change anything) and show us you're better than that (like San Luis did... Classy guy. He understands that the call wasn't the only reason SD lost this game even if it's hard to swallow ;)).

Peace.

omac
09-18-2008, 04:43 AM
The Chargers are used to whining and giving excuses, and that's a good thing for everyone else. As long as they're focussed on blaming everyone else, they'll never be the team they need to be to win the superbowl.

MOtorboat
09-18-2008, 07:33 AM
Mike and Mike just blasted San Diego fans...lol...even played the "San Diego, go **** yourself," clip from Ron Burgundy...couldn't believe they played that...:rofl:

ktrain
09-18-2008, 04:19 PM
Ya know d'head,this game was a disaster in accurate officiating. They made mistakes, they admitted them. So evidently flukes that occur, which result in
advantage to the side that made a mistake, but still result in that side retaining advantage, despite obvious ethical conflicts, do not bother you? No problem. Do you represent your other Denver fans???

**** off troll boy you are on a broncos board, what do you expect.....whiner....you are not welcome here so go **** yourself

By the way....I don't see how Denver got an "advantage" from Cutler's fumble, SD was just denied what would have been an "advantage" had the played been called correctly. Others have pointed out plenty of no calls/bad calls that went against the broncos. Mistakes are part of the game....deal with it

Benetto
09-18-2008, 04:31 PM
Denver- 2-0
Chokeland- 1-1(Thanks to Laser Jay)
KC- 0-2
San Diego- 0-2 (Thanks to Laser Jay)

topscribe
09-18-2008, 04:35 PM
Denver- 2-0
Chokeland- 1-1(Thanks to Laser Jay)
KC- 0-2
San Diego- 0-2 (Thanks to Laser Jay)

HECK of a nickname: Laser Jay!!

Laser Jay has his choice of targets: BMarsh, Fast Eddie, or the Slot Machine!! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/throckon.gif

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
09-18-2008, 04:38 PM
Let's just give Jay, Brandon and Tony names associated with casino's and gambling since we have Casino Eddie Royal and The Slot Machine Brandon Stokley. :D

frauschieze
09-20-2008, 07:14 PM
Ed Hochuli Reverses Earth’s Rotation to Fix Blown Call

NFL referee Ed Hochuli was able to go back in time today and fix his horrifically blown call in Sunday’s Broncos-Chargers game by using his superhuman strength to reverse the Earth’s rotation.

“People have always asked me: ‘Ed, what’s with the 74-inch biceps? Why do you spend 19 hours a day at the gym? What good is all that muscle on a referee?’” said Hochuli. “Well, now you know why I’ve been lifting for all these years.”

Hochuli’s inadvertent whistle in the fourth quarter on Sunday on a Jay Cutler fumble allowed Denver to retain possession and then go on to win the game. But while Chargers fans spent the last two days expressing their anger, Hochuli rested in preparation for his feat of strength. Then, with the nation asleep early this morning, Hochuli rose for his daily 4:00 a.m. workout – only this time he used his biceps to reverse the planet’s rotation, go back in time and silence his whistle, preserving a 38-31 San Diego win.

“Today was a max day anyway, so a big push of the earth fit my lifting schedule,” said Hochuli. “But even if it was a high reps day, I still probably would have done it. I am that dedicated to my job as a referee – I will even consider altering my workout regimen if there are no other options.”

Once his call was fixed, Hochuli spun the planet back to present time.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said he appreciated Hochuli’s efforts to fix the call, but isn’t sure if altering the past is allowed under league rules.

“This sets quite a precedent that would be tough to keep under control,” said Goodell. “Plus, would spinning the earth even work? I don’t think so. I know they did it in Superman, but the earth’s rotation has no bearing on time continuum.”

But Hochuli insists it worked.

“Precedent? What precedent? I’m the only person in the NFL strong enough to reverse the rotation of the earth, so he doesn’t have to worry about that,” said Hochuli, rolling up his sleeves. “And is Roger Goodell doubting me? Did I hear that correctly? Well, I’ve got two pythons here who can probably convince him. And when they’re done with him, I’ve got a couple of pecs who will dance over his grave. Look – look at me make them dance! Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Raaaaaaaawwwwwhhhhh!”

dogfish
09-20-2008, 07:41 PM
best. . . post. . . . . . EVER!!



:rofl:

Broncolingus
09-21-2008, 08:46 AM
I hope Ed is treated the the respect he deserves today...F anyone (any fan) who craps on him.

Oh, and F Jerry Jones as well (but we already knew that):

"Jerry Jones rips Hochuli & Crew...

It hasn't been an easy week for NFL official Ed Hochuli, whose inadvertent whistle cost San Diego a win at Denver on Sunday, and Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones added to the heat Friday. On his weekly radio show on KTCK-AM 1310 (The Ticket), Jones said Hochuli "is quick to the draw" on throwing flags. "His crew calls a lot of penalties," Jones said. "Maybe the answer is to tell people like that, 'Keep that whistle out of your mouth.'" Jones said the league does not want a penalty called unless the infraction affects the play or threatens player safety. "My gut here is the emphasis is going to have to be taking officials like that and getting somebody else if they're going to be penalty prone," Jones said. "Or, in that case, not penalties, but just too quick to call the play dead."

Dallas Morning News

MileHighWrath
09-21-2008, 09:57 AM
I'll be at the Broncos game in San Diego in Dec. and as of right now I intend on wearing an Ed Hochuli suit/costum to Quallcom. If anyone comes across a good picture of Ed's face that I can print up and wear as a mask please let me know!

BCJ
09-22-2008, 05:36 PM
I'll be at the Broncos game in San Diego in Dec. and as of right now I intend on wearing an Ed Hochuli suit/costum to Quallcom. If anyone comes across a good picture of Ed's face that I can print up and wear as a mask please let me know!

I think it might be best to keep that one out of the picture. I am in a group of 50 for that away game and wouldnt do that to get the natives all razzed up. Now, if the Chargers are 6 and 9 at that point, do whatever the hell you want as the Chargers fans wont even show up.

AgentOrange
09-22-2008, 07:21 PM
Now, if the Chargers are 6 and 9 at that point, do whatever the hell you want as the Chargers fans wont even show up.
Chargers fans: First to b!tch...First to ditch! :laugh: