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View Full Version : Thank you Ed Hockley!



weazel
09-14-2008, 06:44 PM
my payment will be on your doorstep :listen:

Retired_Member_001
09-14-2008, 06:45 PM
No lie, we wouldn't have won this without the refs.

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 06:46 PM
The refs were horrible all game long. I thought some of the penalties were weak and the calls were oddball all game.

The thing is though he was following the rules when he gave us the ball back, but only reason the rules applied was because of a mistake by the ref on the field.

Bronco Bible
09-14-2008, 06:46 PM
my payment will be on your doorstep :listen:

Ya but we deserve to win one of those:beer:

MOtorboat
09-14-2008, 06:46 PM
The officiating was poor all day...so to blame that one thing just doesn't work.

The PI earlier in the game on the Broncos was bogus...

Bronco Bible
09-14-2008, 06:50 PM
How about that touchdown by Chambers:tsk:

honz
09-14-2008, 06:51 PM
Thanks Ed, but the refs were definitely pretty shitty all game. I toss it up to karma for Rivers being a little bitch last year.

jrelway
09-14-2008, 06:53 PM
no complaints here..i would send him a nice bottle of something if i knew ed hockleys address.

Sotally Tober
09-14-2008, 06:55 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** ****************MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nomad
09-14-2008, 06:56 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ******ME!


Everything you say is true! But we'll take the W

Timmy!
09-14-2008, 06:57 PM
Blah blah blah. The refs were bad all game, but blown calls are part of the game of football, they happen. It's not like they were reviewing a touchdown that would have made the difference on one play, if the Chargers stop the Broncos on 4th down, or when they went for 2, it wouldn't have mattered. All future sparkler trolls can cry me a friggin river(s). :heh: There were a couple bogus calls/non calls on the Broncos as well. Tell me you can't think of a time when the refs possibly cost the Broncos a game. It's part of football. Ed blew the play dead. It was a mistake, but it's not like he meant to do it. Ed is probably the best official in the entire NFL, but even he makes a mistake now and then. It's a win. Time to move on and work on the defense.

jrelway
09-14-2008, 06:57 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** **************** MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

biitch

JONtheBRONCO
09-14-2008, 06:58 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** ****************MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WAHHH!!! WAHHH!!!! WAHHH!!! You big baby. Whiner. Cry, cry, cry! 2-0! We'll see ya buddy!

BigDaddyBronco
09-14-2008, 06:58 PM
All the Chargers had to do was stop a 4th down pass or a 2-pt conversion and they would have won. With all of the bad luck the Broncos have had the last few years, it's about time the Chargers get some. Karma is a bitch isn't it.

weazel
09-14-2008, 06:59 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** ****************MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

uncle Leo?


seriously though, you have a right to be mad mang.

Retired_Member_001
09-14-2008, 06:59 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days.********************************************* ********************* MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Enjoy 0-2.

:beer:

Timmy!
09-14-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** **************** MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

:Cry::Cry::Cry::Cry::Cry:

Deal with it, karma is a bitch. The Chargers could have made a play on 4th down...and didn't. The Chargers could have made a play on the 2 point conversion...and didn't. Boo-friggin-hoo. I hope this haunts the sparklers all year long and they never recover.

honz
09-14-2008, 07:01 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** **************** MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
Whiner. Bitch.:D

You definitely got dome bad calls...tell Rivers not to ruin the Chargers karma next time. The karma gods don't look kindly upon talking trash to diabetics that are running on fumes.

sneakers
09-14-2008, 07:01 PM
Ed, what type of chocolates do you like?

Mike
09-14-2008, 07:01 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** ****************MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rub some dirt on it. :salute:

weazel
09-14-2008, 07:03 PM
Rub some dirt on it. :salute:

LMAO!

get the 'tussin

atwater27
09-14-2008, 07:05 PM
My hope is that the Chargers are just soooo good on offense (Which really isn't stretching the truth, their Line is the best in the league) that our D just couldn't hang, and they aren't as horrible as they looked today. Our special teams on the other hand. Yikes.

girler
09-14-2008, 07:06 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** ****************MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you trying to say something Sally? I'm not quite sure I understand you under all that whining.

yardog
09-14-2008, 07:06 PM
Ed. :salute:

BigDaddyBronco
09-14-2008, 07:08 PM
My hope is that the Chargers are just soooo good on offense (Which really isn't stretching the truth, their Line is the best in the league) that our D just couldn't hang, and they aren't as horrible as they looked today. Our special teams on the other hand. Yikes.
They'll be pretty solid, then, BAM, they give up a TD. I swear my kids are picking up some bad words due to our ST.

Tned
09-14-2008, 07:14 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** ****************MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, you were robbed. Who knows what would have happened in the early one, where the Broncos would have had a touchdown taken away and maybe with the game closer would have come out of the locker room more fired up, rather than coasting. Regardless, it is inexcusable that the replay system wasn't working.

That call at the end, while technically correct in terms of the replay, was a horrible blown call by Hockule, who is one of the best in the business. To be given the ball back when SD would have been able to run out the clock with one first down (possibly with none) was criminal.

As others have said, I'll take the win, we have had tons of bad breaks in recent years, but I wish we had done it without the help of the Refs.

Rivers and your offense (and defense, too) should get a ton of credit for coming back in the second half.

Tned
09-14-2008, 07:15 PM
WAHHH!!! WAHHH!!!! WAHHH!!! You big baby. Whiner. Cry, cry, cry! 2-0! We'll see ya buddy!

We'd be crying just as loud if it happened to us. The Bolt's got screwed. Glad they did, as a Broncos fan, but they did get screwed.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-14-2008, 07:16 PM
We'd be crying just as loud if it happened to us. The Bolt's got screwed. Glad they did, as a Broncos fan, but they did get screwed.

I agree - but I am sure they have played in games where they benefited from bad calls also.

frauschieze
09-14-2008, 07:18 PM
I would have Ed's baby. It's nice to have the breaks come our way for once.

BigDaddyBronco
09-14-2008, 07:19 PM
All of you Charger fans coming over here to bitch...

We get it, you were screwed. That's life, it happens all the time in the NFL. Get over it, I'm sure the Chargers have.

Instead of coming over here and bitching why don't you go on down to the beach and go surfing or something, I'm sure that would be more fun than having us laugh at you.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-14-2008, 07:19 PM
I would have Ed's baby. It's nice to have the breaks come our way for once.

Absolutely right - there have been MANY times we have had bad calls go against us.

Broncolingus
09-14-2008, 07:22 PM
Howdy everyone...hope ya'll have been great!

I am back from deployment and I am starting the Ed Hochuli Fan Club...

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Hochuli-Decapitates.jpg

Whoo-hoo!!!!

Go Bronc's and in your face Cry-Me-A-Rivers...

By the way, Denver doesn't seem to have a particularly strong defensive line...not sure, but that might be a problem.

spikerman
09-14-2008, 07:23 PM
I do some officiating at the high school level, which in no way makes me an expert on anything, but I will say that I feel terrible for Ed Hochuli. As officials, we are always taught that there are two types of officials - those who have had inadvertent whistles and those who will have inadvertent whistles. I'm sure he feels horrible about the call, but in his initial judgement the pass was incomplete. If he thought it was an incomplete pass then he blew the whistle at the right time (when the ball hit the ground). We, as fans, have the benefit of instant replay in slow motion - he had to make the call in real speed. My guess is that what made him think it was an incomplete pass is that when Cutler followed through with the throwing motion, he actually hit the ball which caused the flight to take a path that appeared to be forward.

It was a blown call, but it happens and Hochuli made the correct ruling following an inadvertent whistle. He is still one of, if not the, best referees in the NFL.

Slick
09-14-2008, 07:25 PM
My hope is that the Chargers are just soooo good on offense (Which really isn't stretching the truth, their Line is the best in the league) that our D just couldn't hang, and they aren't as horrible as they looked today. Our special teams on the other hand. Yikes.

I'm trying to think like that too, although I think two of their starting o-line man were out...we forced them to pass early, and we still got no pressure...I don't think Phillis hit the dirt once.

Timmy!
09-14-2008, 07:25 PM
The Chargers might have had some tough calls go against them, but to put the blame ENTIRELY on the refs is re-friggin-tarded. Get a stop on 4th or the 2 point conversion, they win. Score a touchdown on either of the 2 possessions when they settled for 2 FG's in the 2nd half, they win. Don't give up 39 points, they win. They Sparkler fans need to deal with reality, they should have put this game away in the early 4th quarter, and despite terrible calls, STILL had every opportunity to win.

spikerman
09-14-2008, 07:26 PM
I'm trying to think like that too, although I think two of their starting o-line man were out...we forced them to pass early, and we still got no pressure...I don't think Phillis hit the dirt once.

I think Mike Shanahan going for two tells you all you need to know about the Broncos "defense".

Tned
09-14-2008, 07:27 PM
I would have Ed's baby. It's nice to have the breaks come our way for once.

Lucky Ed!! ;)

Slick
09-14-2008, 07:27 PM
I think Mike Shanahan going for two tells you all you need to know about the Broncos "defense".

absolutely

weazel
09-14-2008, 07:27 PM
yeah it sucks when refs make bad calls, but it happens. Noone should be more pissed than seahawk fans, the NFL robbed them of a Superbowl and handed it to the steelers.

Nomad
09-14-2008, 07:27 PM
I do some officiating at the high school level, which in no way makes me an expert on anything, but I will say that I feel terrible for Ed Hochuli. As officials, we are always taught that there are two types of officials - those who have had inadvertent whistles and those who will have inadvertent whistles. I'm sure he feels horrible about the call, but in his initial judgement the pass was incomplete. If he thought it was an incomplete pass then he blew the whistle at the right time (when the ball hit the ground). We, as fans, have the benefit of instant replay in slow motion - he had to make the call in real speed. My guess is that what made him think it was an incomplete pass is that when Cutler followed through with the throwing motion, he actually hit the ball which caused the flight to take a path that appeared to be forward.

It was a blown call, but it happens and Hochuli made the correct ruling following an inadvertent whistle. He is still one of, if not the, best referees in the NFL.


Officiating is hard and I never want to do it. Kudos to all who officiate because I coach defense in pee wee and though the officials volunteers, you still question them.

Broncolingus
09-14-2008, 07:29 PM
The Chargers might have had some tough calls go against them, but to put the blame ENTIRELY on the refs is re-friggin-tarded. Get a stop on 4th or the 2 point conversion, they win. Score a touchdown on either of the 2 possessions when they settled for 2 FG's in the 2nd half, they win. Don't give up 39 points, they win. They Sparkler fans need to deal with reality, they should have put this game away in the early 4th quarter, and despite terrible calls, STILL had every opportunity to win.

...the Bolts did have 2 chances to stop Denver from winning the game after the bad call...

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 07:29 PM
So anyone remember when Vincent Jackson thought he was down and threw the ball on the ground against the Raiders? I bet the Chargers weren't complaining about that one when it should have been a fumble.

tomjonesrocks
09-14-2008, 07:30 PM
My hope is that the Chargers are just soooo good on offense (Which really isn't stretching the truth, their Line is the best in the league) that our D just couldn't hang, and they aren't as horrible as they looked today. Our special teams on the other hand. Yikes.

Sadly, I don't think this is the case. The Raiders had wide open receivers all of the field as well, their QB just wasn't accurate enough to hit them. And they had nice returns as well.

Our special teams and defense are for shit. Back to the drawing board, guys.

Tned
09-14-2008, 07:30 PM
I think Mike Shanahan going for two tells you all you need to know about the Broncos "defense".

I think it is two things:

First, of course the defense, but since the Chargers were unlikely to march down the field in 30 seconds, I think there was a second factor.

Second, the team that wins the coin toss in OT typically wins the game. Add to that the first point, which is that SD was abusing the Broncos D in the second half, and you figure if SD wins the toss, the game is over. By taking you shot at winning, you take the 'luck' of the coin toss out of play and you take control.

BigDaddyBronco
09-14-2008, 07:31 PM
Howdy everyone...hope ya'll have been great!

I am back from deployment and I am starting the Ed Hochuli Fan Club...

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Hochuli-Decapitates.jpg

Whoo-hoo!!!!

Go Bronc's and in your face Cry-Me-A-Rivers...

By the way, Denver doesn't seem to have a particularly strong defensive line...not sure, but that might be a problem.

Welcome back Broncolingus, I was wondering where you went.

Northman
09-14-2008, 07:32 PM
My hope is that the Chargers are just soooo good on offense (Which really isn't stretching the truth, their Line is the best in the league) that our D just couldn't hang, and they aren't as horrible as they looked today. Our special teams on the other hand. Yikes.

I think someone mentioned in the game thread (Tned i think) that SD is one of the harder teams we have to play this year. Doesnt mean that our D doesnt suck but i hope that it was just because SD offensively is just that good.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-14-2008, 07:33 PM
So anyone remember when Vincent Jackson thought he was down and threw the ball on the ground against the Raiders? I bet the Chargers weren't complaining about that one when it should have been a fumble.

Absolutely - I am sure they have had their share of bad calls. It's usually the Broncos on the short end of that.

tomjonesrocks
09-14-2008, 07:33 PM
I do some officiating at the high school level, which in no way makes me an expert on anything, but I will say that I feel terrible for Ed Hochuli. As officials, we are always taught that there are two types of officials - those who have had inadvertent whistles and those who will have inadvertent whistles. I'm sure he feels horrible about the call, but in his initial judgement the pass was incomplete. If he thought it was an incomplete pass then he blew the whistle at the right time (when the ball hit the ground). We, as fans, have the benefit of instant replay in slow motion - he had to make the call in real speed. My guess is that what made him think it was an incomplete pass is that when Cutler followed through with the throwing motion, he actually hit the ball which caused the flight to take a path that appeared to be forward.

It was a blown call, but it happens and Hochuli made the correct ruling following an inadvertent whistle. He is still one of, if not the, best referees in the NFL.

As the call went for us, and not against us, HERE HERE! :D

weazel
09-14-2008, 07:34 PM
Sadly, I don't think this is the case. The Raiders had wide open receivers all of the field as well, their QB just wasn't accurate enough to hit them. And they had nice returns as well.

Our special teams and defense are for shit. Back to the drawing board, guys.

dont be too negative, atwater27 might get a man-crush on you as well. you dont want that flamer following your ass into every thread like he does to me

Bolltfanbo
09-14-2008, 07:34 PM
I am as pissed a sotaly tober but I'm more pissed at out piss poor defense. It was a very exciting game. Both defenses were very very weak. Rivers and Cutler both played well. Ed did hand you the game though, but chit happens. I'm just glad to see most of you realize you got a gift and say so. Unlink the idiot Bronco fan sitting next to me at the Bar in SD. I give the Broncos credit, they took advantage Ed's gift. Good teams do that. Big game for you should make the year end game really important.

Take advantage while you can... everything is lining up correctly for you right now.

Still don't know what was the official call was. Fumble or incomplete pass? If fumble how do you blow the whistle, If incomplete pass, didn't the pass go backward to make it a live ball?
See ya in Dec. Both team need to sure up our D's. You all need to write Ed Thank You letter because i know he'll be getting a bunch of F U letters from us :)

frauschieze
09-14-2008, 07:35 PM
Howdy everyone...hope ya'll have been great!

I am back from deployment and I am starting the Ed Hochuli Fan Club...

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Hochuli-Decapitates.jpg

Whoo-hoo!!!!

Go Bronc's and in your face Cry-Me-A-Rivers...

By the way, Denver doesn't seem to have a particularly strong defensive line...not sure, but that might be a problem.

Welcome back, buddy! You've been missed.

Northman
09-14-2008, 07:36 PM
I am as pissed a sotaly tober but I'm more pissed at out piss poor defense. It was a very exciting game. Both defenses were very very weak. Rivers and Cutler both played well. Ed did hand you the game though, but chit happens. I'm just glad to see most of you realize you got a gift and say so. Unlink the idiot Bronco fan sitting next to me at the Bar in SD. I give the Broncos credit, they took advantage Ed's gift. Good teams do that. Big game for you should make the year end game really important.

Take advantage while you can... everything is lining up correctly for you right now.

Still don't know what was the official call was. Fumble or incomplete pass? If fumble how do you blow the whistle, If incomplete pass, didn't the pass go backward to make it a live ball?
See ya in Dec. Both team need to sure up our D's. You all need to write Ed Thank You letter because i know he'll be getting a bunch of F U letters from us :)

It was actually a fumble. But when it happened Ed called it incomplete and blew the whistle. When he blew the whistle thats when the play was dead. If had not done that it would of been Charger ball.

BigDaddyBronco
09-14-2008, 07:37 PM
I am as pissed a sotaly tober but I'm more pissed at out piss poor defense. It was a very exciting game. Both defenses were very very weak. Rivers and Cutler both played well. Ed did hand you the game though, but chit happens. I'm just glad to see most of you realize you got a gift and say so. Unlink the idiot Bronco fan sitting next to me at the Bar in SD. I give the Broncos credit, they took advantage Ed's gift. Good teams do that. Big game for you should make the year end game really important.

Take advantage while you can... everything is lining up correctly for you right now.

Still don't know what was the official call was. Fumble or incomplete pass? If fumble how do you blow the whistle, If incomplete pass, didn't the pass go backward to make it a live ball?
See ya in Dec. Both team need to sure up our D's. You all need to write Ed Thank You letter because i know he'll be getting a bunch of F U letters from us :)
Wow we might have 3 rational Charger fans now, NorthernLights, SanLuis, and Boltfanbo.

Northman
09-14-2008, 07:38 PM
Wow we might have 3 rational Charger fans now, NorthernLights, SanLuis, and Boltfanbo.

Certainly better than whats on the Mane. :lol:

Bolltfanbo
09-14-2008, 07:43 PM
Wow we might have 3 rational Charger fans now, NorthernLights, SanLuis, and Boltfanbo.

Well I wouldn't go that far... I did kick the dog, cuss out an old lady wearing Bronco gear and screamed ED YOU FU_K all the way home... :)

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 07:46 PM
It was actually a fumble. But when it happened Ed called it incomplete and blew the whistle. When he blew the whistle thats when the play was dead. If had not done that it would of been Charger ball.

Yep that was where the call was blown. It was during the play itself and not the replay. By rule he did the right thing during the replay.

Tned
09-14-2008, 07:47 PM
Scheffler said that when they started the 80 yard drive, Cutler told them in the huddle that if they scored, they were going for two and the win.

Rex
09-14-2008, 07:49 PM
Dear Chargers fans,

At least you are not Chiefs fans. Keep your chin up. It was a bad call.


cswil

Rex
09-14-2008, 07:49 PM
Scheffler said that when they started the 80 yard drive, Cutler told them in the huddle that if they scored, they were going for two and the win.


Better odds than going into OT and kicking the ball away and letting the defense back on the field.

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 07:50 PM
Still don't know what was the official call was. Fumble or incomplete pass? If fumble how do you blow the whistle, If incomplete pass, didn't the pass go backward to make it a live ball?

If it was incomplete it would be incomplete by the tuck rule no matter where the ball landed. A similar event happened with Jake Plummer against the Redskins where he pump faked and had the ball go between his body and his arm, but because of the tuck rule it didn't matter that the ball landed in the endzone.

So if the pass was incomplete it was because of the tuck rule.

Bolltfanbo
09-14-2008, 07:50 PM
Scheffler said that when they started the 80 yard drive, Cutler told them in the huddle that if they scored, they were going for two and the win.
Why not neither team could stop each other. Jay did give it away though. But Ed saved his a s s.. lol

Traveler
09-14-2008, 07:51 PM
Man, did Shanahan show some balls or what? I couldn't believe it when he signaled they were going for two. Gutsy call but I'll take it.

Refs notwithstanding, a win is a win no matter how you get it. My guess is that Hochuli will be fined this week but at least he's man enough to admit his mistake.

BeefStew25
09-14-2008, 07:53 PM
Can you guys imagine if we had just maybe a Greg Robinson defense?

Bolltfanbo
09-14-2008, 07:53 PM
Yep that was where the call was blown. It was during the play itself and not the replay. By rule he did the right thing during the replay.

But why would you blow the whistle when the pass went backwards. Shouldn't have been a lateral?

Rex
09-14-2008, 07:53 PM
Can you guys imagine if we had just maybe a Greg Robinson defense?

Or Larry Coyer.

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 07:54 PM
But why would you blow the whistle when the pass went backwards. Shouldn't have been a lateral?

I already explained that in a previous post. Tuck rule. Its a stupid rule, but its the rule.


If it was incomplete it would be incomplete by the tuck rule no matter where the ball landed. A similar event happened with Jake Plummer against the Redskins where he pump faked and had the ball go between his body and his arm, but because of the tuck rule it didn't matter that the ball landed in the endzone.

So if the pass was incomplete it was because of the tuck rule.

Traveler
09-14-2008, 07:55 PM
Can you guys imagine if we had just maybe a Greg Robinson defense?

Nah! We just need better players on defense.

Tned
09-14-2008, 07:56 PM
Better odds than going into OT and kicking the ball away and letting the defense back on the field.

Or having Sproles return it for a TD or easy FG, or have Prater kick it out of bounds under the pressure (not to mention Prater and the rookie punter/holder on the extra point).

Who knows what the 'main' reason was for Shanny's decision, there was probably a whole lot, but the big thing is we won.

yardog
09-14-2008, 07:56 PM
Can you guys imagine if we had just maybe a Greg Robinson defense?

Maybe it's me but I think we do.

Slick
09-14-2008, 07:57 PM
Can you guys imagine if we had just maybe a Greg Robinson defense?


Or Larry Coyer.

Yes please.

spikerman
09-14-2008, 07:57 PM
Or having Sproles return it for a TD or easy FG, or have Prater kick it out of bounds under the pressure (not to mention Prater and the rookie punter/holder on the extra point).

Who knows what the 'main' reason was for Shanny's decision, there was probably a whole lot, but the big thing is we won.

After the first couple of kick returns I was hoping the Broncos would just kick it out of bounds. :D

BigDaddyBronco
09-14-2008, 07:58 PM
Maybe it's me but I think we do.
Nah if it was a Robinson defense we would have gambled more and had more turnovers and sacks. We have the other half of his defense though, the propensity to give up big plays.

Bolltfanbo
09-14-2008, 07:59 PM
I already explained that in a previous post. Tuck rule. Its a stupid rule, but its the rule.

lol cmon that's was no tuck, the ball never game forward. Culter's motion was not trying to tuck of pump fake and he hit it twice, Don't know if hitting with your hand after it comes out means anything or not but that was no tuck. At least Brady's hand game back to his mid section,

Northman
09-14-2008, 07:59 PM
But why would you blow the whistle when the pass went backwards. Shouldn't have been a lateral?

All Ed saw was Jay's hand go forward. He was behind Jay when he fumbled and probably thought it was an attempt to pass it.

BeefStew25
09-14-2008, 08:00 PM
Nah if it was a Robinson defense we would have gambled more and had more turnovers and sacks. We have the other half of his defense though, the propensity to give up big plays.

I would blow you for a bend but don't break defense.

yardog
09-14-2008, 08:00 PM
Nah if it was a Robinson defense we would have gambled more and had more turnovers and sacks. We have the other half of his defense though, the propensity to give up big plays.

Thanks BDB I knew something looked familiar.

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 08:03 PM
lol cmon that's was no tuck, the ball never game forward. Culter's motion was not trying to tuck of pump fake and he hit it twice, Don't know if hitting with your hand after it comes out means anything or not but that was no tuck. At least Brady's hand game back to his mid section,


Tuck rule covers all situations with respect to an "empty hand" being a fumble or a incomplete pass. So if the ref thought Cutler had the ball going forward then by rule it doesn't matter where the ball ends up. Incomplete pass. If he held the whistle till after the recovery and then declared it incomplete it could be overturned by replay.

You can check the rules for yourself, but that is how it has been called for the last several years.

It is a rule they need to work on, but non the less it is the rule.

BigDaddyBronco
09-14-2008, 08:03 PM
I would blow you for a bend but don't break defense.
I just want to not give up 38 pts to anybody. If we put up 30 pts we should be able to win 90% of the games in my book.

Tned
09-14-2008, 08:04 PM
lol cmon that's was no tuck, the ball never game forward. Culter's motion was not trying to tuck of pump fake and he hit it twice, Don't know if hitting with your hand after it comes out means anything or not but that was no tuck. At least Brady's hand game back to his mid section,

It was no tuck, just a straight fumble. Clearly, the Ref thought the ball popped out when his hand was going forward, and then because he blew the whistle, by rule he couldn't fix his mistake.

What I am not clear about is why the "continuation of play" rule didn't come into play. About two years ago, they introduced a rule that said that when a fumble happened, even when a player was blown down by contact, if the play continued and the other team got the ball, it couldn't be advanced but replay would confirm the turnover.

I guess that 'continuation of play' beyond the whistle applies to 'down by contact' whistles but not incomplete pass whistles. I don't really get the difference, why they allow the players to play beyond the whistle on down by contact (and then allow replay to determine it was in fact a fumble), but not in this case.

I figure that Rich Eisen and Ferrera will review/talk about this one on Wednesday's Total Access.

Tned
09-14-2008, 08:06 PM
Tuck rule covers all situations with respect to an "empty hand" being a fumble or a incomplete pass. So if the ref thought Cutler had the ball going forward then by rule it doesn't matter where the ball ends up. Incomplete pass. If he held the whistle till after the recovery and then declared it incomplete it could be overturned by replay.

You can check the rules for yourself, but that is how it has been called for the last several years.

It is a rule they need to work on, but non the less it is the rule.

I don't think that is correct. When it is a 'tuck' situation, they ref usually says that, this one he said was a fumble, but by 'rule' the ball was dead because he blew the whistle.

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 08:09 PM
I don't think that is correct. When it is a 'tuck' situation, they ref usually says that, this one he said was a fumble, but by 'rule' the ball was dead because he blew the whistle.

Even if I get the terminology wrong the rule is still correct. An incomplete pass by the "empty hand" is incomplete regardless of where it lands. I have seen a dozen times where this has been the case. This is in case the QB does a full 180 with his arm and loses the ball in the process.

If you ask me the whole passing rules are screwed up, but the Chargers fans have benifited from similar "ticky tack" rules.

BeefStew25
09-14-2008, 08:09 PM
I just want to not give up 38 pts to anybody. If we put up 30 pts we should be able to win 90% of the games in my book.

Well, right now we are the Denver Bengals.

Sotally Tober
09-14-2008, 08:10 PM
I don't think that is correct. When it is a 'tuck' situation, they ref usually says that, this one he said was a fumble, but by 'rule' the ball was dead because he blew the whistle.

Wait a second. So if Cutler had gone after hit and hit Dobbins after the whistle. Could it be reviewed based on the notion that it was not down previously but down by contact? I know a down by contact call can be reviewed.

Northman
09-14-2008, 08:23 PM
Wait a second. So if Cutler had gone after hit and hit Dobbins after the whistle. Could it be reviewed based on the notion that it was not down previously but down by contact? I know a down by contact call can be reviewed.

No, the fact that it was blown dead is where the problem is when it comes to the call. If there had been no whistle it would of been a fumble recovered by the Chargers.

Sotally Tober
09-14-2008, 08:25 PM
No, the fact that it was blown dead is where the problem is when it comes to the call. If there had been no whistle it would of been a fumble recovered by the Chargers.

Well, that is why I'm so pissed at Ed! He should be fined, better yet fired. Do not ruin the NFL with you bullshit calls. Norv is so pissed but knows where his foot belongs.

spikerman
09-14-2008, 08:26 PM
Once the whistle blows the play is over. Nothing that happens after that matters.

Tned
09-14-2008, 08:27 PM
Even if I get the terminology wrong the rule is still correct. An incomplete pass by the "empty hand" is incomplete regardless of where it lands. I have seen a dozen times where this has been the case. This is in case the QB does a full 180 with his arm and loses the ball in the process.

If you ask me the whole passing rules are screwed up, but the Chargers fans have benifited from similar "ticky tack" rules.

No, again, I think your wrong. Two different situations:

Tuck: The QB pump fakes or otherwise moves his arm back to throw, and then decides not to throw, and on the way forward to "tuck" it as if to run, scramble, or just reset, the ball pops out as the ball is moving forward, or while the QB is trying to "tuck" it back into a running position.

Fumble: The ball comes out when the arm is moving backwards OR if it pops out right as the QB starts to throw, such that the ball never moves forward, but instead will pop out behind the QB or to the side (happened to Russell last week, used to happen to Elway in the rain). In the case of the fumble, like last week with Russel, it is a LIVE ball, and the defense can jump on the ball and recover the fumble.

However, in this case, the Ref saw it as the ball coming loose as the arm was moving forward, as opposed to what actually happened (the ball coming loose on the way back) and blew the whistle as an incomplete pass. Hence by rule, even though it was a fumble, not a tuck, the ball is dead where it hit the ground.

I know the commentators kept talking empty hand, but they were referring to it in the sense of it being a fumble, not a tuck - non-fumble/lost ball situation.

spikerman
09-14-2008, 08:27 PM
Well, that is why I'm so pissed at Ed! He should be fined, better yet fired. Do not ruin the NFL with you bullshit calls. Norv is so pissed but knows where his foot belongs.

So let me get this straight - players and coaches make boneheaded mistakes all the time and are forgiven, but the refs have to be perfect? These guys are human beings. R E L A X. At least he was man enough to admit he made a mistake.

frauschieze
09-14-2008, 08:28 PM
Well, that is why I'm so pissed at Ed! He should be fined, better yet fired. Do not ruin the NFL with you bullshit calls. Norv is so pissed but knows where his foot belongs.

Your mouth is much cleaner over here. :laugh:

Northman
09-14-2008, 08:28 PM
Well, that is why I'm so pissed at Ed! He should be fined, better yet fired. Do not ruin the NFL with you bullshit calls. Norv is so pissed but knows where his foot belongs.

Hard to say. He was behind Jay when he made the call. Ive been crowing about Ref's being fined for bad calls so if they do then great. Doesnt change the outcome here though.

Tned
09-14-2008, 08:29 PM
Wait a second. So if Cutler had gone after hit and hit Dobbins after the whistle. Could it be reviewed based on the notion that it was not down previously but down by contact? I know a down by contact call can be reviewed.

Based on the Ref's description, I don't think so. I think they must have different rules for "continuation of play" when it is ruled down by contact, but really a fumble, compared to when it is ruled an incomplete pass. Since this was an incomplete pass and the whistle was blown, then that would trump a down by contact that followed. The play was over and unreviewable as soon as he blew the whistle for incomplete pass and it hit the ground.

scott.475
09-14-2008, 08:30 PM
Ed blew the play dead by incomplete pass, which is important to know. It is not enough to just say he blew the whistle dead.

Regarding the tuck rule, once the hand starts forward it is a pass, period, regardless of where the ball ends up. If a pass does not start, there is no tuck rule.

The tuck rule does not at all apply in this case, as it was a flat fumble, Ed just could not see it from his point of view, behind Jay. Considering his point of view, I am not sure how he would decide to do anything else. Hindsight is always 20/20, but from his point of view at the time, I think if you don't blow the whistle given what he saw, you just plain never blow the whistle when a ball hits the ground until after the scrum is over.

spikerman
09-14-2008, 08:32 PM
Hard to say. He was behind Jay when he made the call. Ive been crowing about Ref's being fined for bad calls so if they do then great. Doesnt change the outcome here though.

I don't think an official should be fined for a judgement call. If they get fined because they misinterperet a rule, then ok, but not for a judgement call. If that's the case, they should start fining coaches for going for it on 4th down and not making it or players who try to get extra yards instead of getting out of bounds because their judgement was wrong.

scott.475
09-14-2008, 08:36 PM
Ed Hochuli, the best ref in the NFL, should be fired because once in who knows how many years, he blew a call...right.

Fine the refs? C'mon now, that is just crazy. I don't know how much they get payed, but I imagine if you start leveling fines against them, it will be hard to find good ones. Ed Hochuli is a successful lawyer in Arizona, why would he continue ref'ing if he was going to face huge fines, instead of simply going back to his practice full time?

Their "fines" for screwing up is that they don't get to ref far into the playoffs or in the high profile "MNF" games. Ed is one of the best, and I am not saying that just because his screw up gave us the win today.

omac
09-14-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm not gonna congratulate any Broncos. This game was STOLEN! Call me a whiner. Call me a bitch. See if I care. If this costs us in the long run I will be so ******' pissed. The zebras cost us one of THE most important games of the season. I'll be here to vent for a few days. ************************************************** ****************MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whiner!

Happy to oblige ... just kidding man. :cheers:

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 08:38 PM
No, again, I think your wrong. Two different situations:

Tuck: The QB pump fakes or otherwise moves his arm back to throw, and then decides not to throw, and on the way forward to "tuck" it as if to run, scramble, or just reset, the ball pops out as the ball is moving forward, or while the QB is trying to "tuck" it back into a running position.

Fumble: The ball comes out when the arm is moving backwards OR if it pops out right as the QB starts to throw, such that the ball never moves forward, but instead will pop out behind the QB or to the side (happened to Russell last week, used to happen to Elway in the rain). In the case of the fumble, like last week with Russel, it is a LIVE ball, and the defense can jump on the ball and recover the fumble.

However, in this case, the Ref saw it as the ball coming loose as the arm was moving forward, as opposed to what actually happened (the ball coming loose on the way back) and blew the whistle as an incomplete pass. Hence by rule, even though it was a fumble, not a tuck, the ball is dead where it hit the ground.

I know the commentators kept talking empty hand, but they were referring to it in the sense of it being a fumble, not a tuck - non-fumble/lost ball situation.

I am saying that if it was ruled a pass then because of the way it was "incomplete" by rule it doesn't matter if it landed in front of or behind the QB. It is just simply incomplete.

The Chargers fan was saying that even if it was ruled a pass why was it not ruled a fumble when it landed behind Cutler. It is because the rules say the ball is incomplete regardless.

Northman
09-14-2008, 08:39 PM
I don't think an official should be fined for a judgement call. If they get fined because they misinterperet a rule, then ok, but not for a judgement call. If that's the case, they should start fining coaches for going for it on 4th down and not making it or players who try to get extra yards instead of getting out of bounds because their judgement was wrong.

I disagree. Only because Ed jumped the gun with the incomplete pass call. If he holds off until the play finishes out the play would of finished the way it was supposed to. If it would have been a forward pass that slipped out of his hand it could of been reversed on replay. I understand why Ed made the call but he definitely jumped the gun with the whistle.

Tned
09-14-2008, 08:42 PM
Regarding the tuck rule, once the hand starts forward it is a pass, period, regardless of where the ball ends up. If a pass does not start, there is no tuck rule.

The tuck rule does not at all apply in this case, as it was a flat fumble, Ed just could not see it from his point of view, behind Jay.

This is what I was trying to explain, with far more words. Good explanation as to why it wasn't a tuck situation, but a fumble. Completely different.


Ed Hochuli, the best ref in the NFL, should be fired because once in who knows how many years, he blew a call...right.


As you say, Ed is one of the best, if not the best, in the biz. He blew a call. He also blew the one where he threw the flag on DJ for leading with the helmet on the QB, when it was his shoulder.

His crew blew the one on the INT to Champ.

All of this will come back on Hockule, and effect he and his crews ability to get playoff/SB games. Anyone that saw the "week in a life" or whatever that NFL Network show is that follows players, that did the week on Ed, will have seen how a group of officials in NY will review this entire game, and point out/grade where the crew failed. No Ref wants that.

spikerman
09-14-2008, 08:42 PM
I disagree. Only because Ed jumped the gun with the incomplete pass call. If he holds off until the play finishes out the play would of finished the way it was supposed to. If it would have been a forward pass that slipped out of his hand it could of been reversed on replay. I understand why Ed made the call but he definitely jumped the gun with the whistle.
He did, unless he believed as he saw it that it was indeed an incomplete pass. If he believed it was incomplete, he is supposed to blow it to stop the play to prevent injuries. Only he knows whether he just missed the play or if it was the dreaded inadvertent whistle.

Sotally Tober
09-14-2008, 08:44 PM
NFL policy is to allow a play to develop in the final two minutes and review it once there is a shred of doubt. Hochuli went against policy by blowing his whistle inadvertently so he should be punished. If I hear his name in another Charger game I will rant and rave about how he is biased and a crappy ref. Hochuli USED to be one of the best but you can't make a game this good turn out like that because of your judgement and just walk away from it. On the other hand, I think NFL gets some free publicity out of this.

Tned
09-14-2008, 08:45 PM
I am saying that if it was ruled a pass then because of the way it was "incomplete" by rule it doesn't matter if it landed in front of or behind the QB. It is just simply incomplete.

The Chargers fan was saying that even if it was ruled a pass why was it not ruled a fumble when it landed behind Cutler. It is because the rules say the ball is incomplete regardless.

No. If the fumble recovery had happened before the whistle was blown, then I think it would have stood.

Regardless, the point is that it has nothing to do with the tuck rule, they are completely different things. The tuck rule can be reviewed as a tuck (meaning they could have ruled it a fumble, and then reviewed it and called it a tuck), where this was a clear fumble, but through a 'technicality' the Broncos got the ball back.

omac
09-14-2008, 08:45 PM
Why not neither team could stop each other. Jay did give it away though. But Ed saved his a s s.. lol

Then Jay scored with 2 passes in the endzone, when the Chargers knew it was coming both times. LOL :D

MOtorboat
09-14-2008, 08:46 PM
NFL policy is to allow a play to develop in the final two minutes and review it once there is a shred of doubt. Hochuli went against policy by blowing his whistle inadvertently so he should be punished. If I hear his name in another Charger game I will rant and rave about how he is biased and a crappy ref. Hochuli USED to be one of the best but you can't make a game this good turn out like that because of your judgement and just walk away from it. On the other hand, I think NFL gets some free publicity out of this.

Bullshit.

Whiner.

I hear the Steelers are winning.

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 08:47 PM
NFL policy is to allow a play to develop in the final two minutes and review it once there is a shred of doubt. Hochuli went against policy by blowing his whistle inadvertently so he should be punished. If I hear his name in another Charger game I will rant and rave about how he is biased and a crappy ref. Hochuli USED to be one of the best but you can't make a game this good turn out like that because of your judgement and just walk away from it. On the other hand, I think NFL gets some free publicity out of this.

Sorry, but that is a knee jerk reaction. Even the best refs do something wrong. He manned up and said he was wrong, but because of the rules he couldn't change it.

This is going to be my last post since I need to get on the road back to Pullman.

Sotally Tober
09-14-2008, 08:48 PM
This is what I was trying to explain, with far more words. Good explanation as to why it wasn't a tuck situation, but a fumble. Completely different.



As you say, Ed is one of the best, if not the best, in the biz. He blew a call. He also blew the one where he threw the flag on DJ for leading with the helmet on the QB, when it was his shoulder.

His crew blew the one on the INT to Champ.

All of this will come back on Hockule, and effect he and his crews ability to get playoff/SB games. Anyone that saw the "week in a life" or whatever that NFL Network show is that follows players, that did the week on Ed, will have seen how a group of officials in NY will review this entire game, and point out/grade where the crew failed. No Ref wants that.

#1 DJ landed a pad and part of his helmet on Rivers chin which did start bleeding, nothing worse than you a small rasberry. But it's QB, man!

#2 INT...please. Chambers had that one on the groud and Champ had it once they got back up. Not an INT

#3 GOOD...But I will see more of this douchebag and in big games too since Tony Korn****** likes him a lot.

spikerman
09-14-2008, 08:48 PM
NFL policy is to allow a play to develop in the final two minutes and review it once there is a shred of doubt. Hochuli went against policy by blowing his whistle inadvertently so he should be punished. If I hear his name in another Charger game I will rant and rave about how he is biased and a crappy ref. Hochuli USED to be one of the best but you can't make a game this good turn out like that because of your judgement and just walk away from it. On the other hand, I think NFL gets some free publicity out of this.
Where is this policy written? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I have just never heard of this before. Obviously the officials should let the play run its course, but if the official saw it as an incomplete pass, there is nothing else to play out and he should blow it dead. In this case, it was the wrong call. Yes, it was a fumble, but there may have been legitimate (although incorrect) reasons for blowing the whistle.

SmilinAssasSin27
09-14-2008, 08:48 PM
I hear the Steelers are winning.

Yep...they won a whole SuperBowl due to bad calls. we just got the 1 game.

MOtorboat
09-14-2008, 08:48 PM
Where is this policy written? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I have just never heard of this before. Obviously the officials should let the play run its course, but if the official saw it as an incomplete pass, there is nothing else to play out and he should blow it dead. In this case, it was the wrong call. Yes, it was a fumble, but there may have been legitimate (although incorrect) reasons for blowing the whistle.

Chargers fans don't know shit...don't listen to them.

LoyalSoldier
09-14-2008, 08:53 PM
No. If the fumble recovery had happened before the whistle was blown, then I think it would have stood.

The incomplete pass rule would happen irregardless of the whistle. The only difference is that since the play was not allowed to proceed the replay was unusable. If they allowed them to play and then called it incomplete it would be reviewable.

However if it was ruled a pass then it was incomplete no matter where it landed. It can't be ruled a backwards lateral despite where it landed.

omac
09-14-2008, 08:53 PM
It would've gotten better. I believe the Raiders would've beaten the Chargers once this season, but since Kiffin is out, the Raiders will get worse.

Tned
09-14-2008, 08:54 PM
#1 DJ landed a pad and part of his helmet on Rivers chin which did start bleeding, nothing worse than you a small rasberry. But it's QB, man!

#2 INT...please. Chambers had that one on the groud and Champ had it once they got back up. Not an INT

#3 GOOD...But I will see more of this douchebag and in big games too since Tony Korn****** likes him a lot.

Don't lose site of the fact that I have been AGREEEING with you. The Ref blew the calls.

It was called an INT and goes on River's record as an INT, which is why I called it an INT. I have said here, and on your board, that it was a blown call, which is why I said he is going to have to answer for the bad calls he made and his crew made.

It could cost his crew the chance to ref the in the playoffs/SB.

Northman
09-14-2008, 08:56 PM
It would've gotten better. I believe the Raiders would've beaten the Chargers once this season, but since Kiffin is out, the Raiders will get worse.

Have they already canned him? Or is it still a rumor?

Tned
09-14-2008, 08:56 PM
Wow, Chris Collinsworth says that on the first call, said even if it had been reviewed, it would have been called a simultaneous catch and therefore unreviewable and the call on the field would have stood.

As I said, I am looking forward to Wednesday's NFLN Total Access, because I am sure both of these plays will be discussed with head of officials (Ferrera or something like that), where he will discuss what happened, and what would have happened on that first play if the replay had been working.

omac
09-14-2008, 09:06 PM
Have they already canned him? Or is it still a rumor?

Well, according to ESPN, it's set, but who knows?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3587018

Now, Davis is preparing to fire Kiffin as soon as Monday, regardless of how the visiting Raiders perform Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs, the Mercury News has reported, citing several front-office sources.