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cardoso
01-08-2011, 04:44 PM
YOU KNOW WHAT!!! Mr. Mcdaniels Jr it looks like. Stop alienating Tebow! Stop saying he's not a good NFL QB! (he looked alot better than you did in your first 3 starts). Tebow was thrown in into the fire in one of the worst possible conditions!

No coah/inexperienced coaches coaching his first 3 starts
No running game
No offensive line
No Defensive support
No training camp as the #1


yet he still came in and sparked not only the team, but the FANBASE! Once again our Team has bee a damn joke on defense for the umting time in a row and here we have a guy talking about a lack of a "good qb" he said we have to win superbowls "in the pocket" well john if it wasn't for a defense and a great running game and a good coach your ass wouldn't have any superbowls either. I could care less about John as the Player right now. He has a lot of responsibility in his new role and he better not screw this shit up! Leave tebow alone and go find a good coach and some good defensive talent! His inexperience is already showing! If he even attempts to trade Tebow we will be the new detroit lions!

camdisco24
01-08-2011, 04:52 PM
I love John Elway and I always will...

But I hope to GOD he is not Matt Millen 2....

UrbanBounca
01-08-2011, 04:53 PM
Where did Elway say Tebow wasn't good?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Dzone
01-08-2011, 04:57 PM
If Tebow is traded, Elway will forever be a villain to many in the state that still loves him. Elway has NOT been very complimentary in comments about Tebow. Luke warm at best.

TXBRONC
01-08-2011, 04:58 PM
Man put the brakes on. Every word that comes from Peter King's mouth isn't gospel truth.

cardoso
01-08-2011, 05:00 PM
Where did Elway say Tebow wasn't good?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

in his presser. Instead of talking about a lack of a head coach and pathetic defense that The Boise State Broncos Could score 30 points on he spent most of the time talking about how tebow is "raw" along with a bunch of other crap about him as if Elway has all of a sudden become this great talent evaluator. I loved john but if he did something as stupid as even think about trading Tebow I would no longer like Elway. He needs to focus on finding a coach!

cardoso
01-08-2011, 05:01 PM
Man put the brakes on. Every word that comes from Peter King's mouth is gospel truth.

I really hope so because it would make me hate my favorite all time bronco!

PAINTERDAVE
01-08-2011, 05:02 PM
Too Much to Tweet: Elway's Thoughts on Tim Tebow
@BoHussey: Do you have all those Elway quotes about Tebow in one blog post?

Since you asked … all of Elway’s thoughts on Tebow from his press conference and his post-presser question-and-answer session with writing media (please note: press-conference quotes are courtesy of the transcript provided by Denver Broncos media relations):

ON WHAT HE THINKS OF TEBOW:
“We had personnel meetings this morning with everybody — with the whole staff — and got through that and obviously we talked a lot about Tim. I have asked everybody if they had a chance to do the deal over that the Broncos did last year to get Tim (whether they would do it again) and they all said, ‘Yes.’ I think that he has been everything that everybody expected him to be as far as a person, a man, a leader, and what everybody heard about him — his intangibles. I think we had a chance to see a little bit of what Tim can do, having a chance to play those last three games. Obviously, with not a lot of practice time leading up to that, it was tough to be sharp. But, I think Tim has a lot of work to do and he would be the first one to admit that and we will get into that evaluation process as we get the new coach hired, but I would tell you this: as a man, as a football player — we all agree on one thing: Tim Tebow is a darn good football player. What we have to make him is a darn good quarterback and that is what we have to figure out. If there is anybody that is going to give himself a chance to be a darn quarterback or a great quarterback it is going to be Tim Tebow because that is how devoted he is to it and how important it is for him to be a great football player. I want to tell you this: he loves the Denver Broncos. I have had a chance to talk with him and he is everything about what we like in a football player as a Denver Bronco, so I look forward to meeting with Tim and obviously there is a lot of work to do, but we will get that evaluation as we move forward.”

ON IF A DECISION HAS BEEN MADE ABOUT TEBOW’S ROLE GOING FORWARD:
“No, it hasn’t been made. That is one thing — the head coach is going to be in charge of that football team and he is going to run that football team, so obviously we will have plenty of conversations. He will have his opinion, I am sure, on Tim and whether they have studied him or not (when) they get to the interview process, but (they will also) understand the situation that we are in with Tim as well as the other quarterbacks we do have. So, there are going to be a lot of discussions with that and we will get to the bottom of that. Is Tim ready to go right now? He has had three games under his belt. I think with some film study there, whether he is ready to go right now or not, I think that is still in question.”

ON WHAT HE WILL DO IF A POTENTIAL HEAD COACH DOESN’T SEE TEBOW AS A GOOD FIT:
“I don ‘t think a coach is going to say that, to be dead honest with you. Everyone is aware of what Tim Tebow is about and so I think that there is still a question — obviously you have guys way over here that say there is no way, you have guys over here that think (otherwise) — there are really not a lot of guys in the middle, but I think that anybody that comes in here and is going to be around Tim Tebow is going to understand that this guy is something special as a man and a person, willing to work with him to give him that opportunity to be the player that he wants. So, I don’t believe that anyone is going to come over and say, ‘I don’t want Tim Tebow. ‘ If they do, then maybe they are not the right guy for the job.”

ON WHAT HE SEES IN TEBOW:
“What I see is he’s very raw when it comes down to drops, he’s very raw when it comes down to anticipation. He’s very raw — he’s a rookie, when it comes down to anticipating throws. Those are the things that he has to get a lot better at. He’s got the intangibles. He’s going to make the plays that you can’t coach, as he did against Houston. He’s going to make those plays, but he’s got to be able to, for us to win a championship, he’s got those intangibles, but he’s got to win it from within the pocket.”

ON TEBOW SAYING THAT YOU’RE NOT COACHING HIM MECHANICALLY, BUT MORE ON A PERSONAL, DAY-TO-DAY LEVEL ABOUT LIFE IN THE NFL:
“You know, and that’s all we’ve really had a chance to talk about. But I look forward to getting with all the quarterbacks and sitting in the room and giving the advice that I can give with my experience and I think I can help them, and so I’m looking forward to having some hands-on tutoring with the quarterbacks here but also with all of them, to get out there and watch them throw and give them different things that I know, and hopefully it can help them.”

http://twitter.com/MaxBroncos

cardoso
01-08-2011, 05:03 PM
If Tebow is traded, Elway will forever be a villain to many in the state that still loves him. Elway has NOT been very complimentary in comments about Tebow. Luke warm at best.

Maybe elway feels threatened by tebow's following and love. maybe he doesnt want tebow to go down and the most loved qb in broncos history :rolleyes: I know stupid but geez John go find a damn coach and someone who is going to fix this defense! Tebow is the last of our problems!

PAINTERDAVE
01-08-2011, 05:03 PM
These are both from Peter Kings twitter
SI_PeterKing

Elway tells me "at this time'' he doesn't think Tebow's a good NFL quarterback. I said on NBC that if McD gets job in spot that needs QB ...

SI_PeterKing

To clarify, John Elway never told me he wants to trade Tebow. My report was about how I thought McD, w/QB-needy team, could pursue trade.

Northman
01-08-2011, 05:03 PM
Funny how one would overreact to hearsay rather than what was actually said by the man. lmao

PAINTERDAVE
01-08-2011, 05:06 PM
KING is a hack and a rumour monger.

Nothing has changed.

He was seeking noteriety in his little 25 second national spotlight.

No big deal.

Tebow has had to deal with this stuff all his life.
Now we do , too.

MacGruder
01-08-2011, 05:06 PM
One thing I have noticed about many NFL QBs, coaches and talent evaluators is that they are WAY too focused on how QBs "look". It seems they focus more on this than on actual ability.. and how they play the game.. it's like form over function. I really think it's because it is so difficult to see true talent.. so rather than trying to determine that they focus on all this BS that really doesn't matter..

Dzone
01-08-2011, 05:10 PM
in his presser. Instead of talking about a lack of a head coach and pathetic defense that The Boise State Broncos Could score 30 points on he spent most of the time talking about how tebow is "raw" along with a bunch of other crap about him as if Elway has all of a sudden become this great talent evaluator. I loved john but if he did something as stupid as even think about trading Tebow I would no longer like Elway. He needs to focus on finding a coach!
:salute:No doubt about it. This is NO WAY to start the first week on the job, letting rumors get out about Tebow.. Hope this isnt a bad omen. Tebow has it in him to be the savior of the franchise, not John Elway. Elway wants to be known as the man who came in and rescued the Broncos. Can he handle being in Tebows shadow? Maybe not.

DenBronx
01-08-2011, 05:12 PM
damn....calm down. :lol:

TXBRONC
01-08-2011, 05:14 PM
I really hope so because it would make me hate my favorite all time bronco!

Peter King has already back peddled on his initial comments.

cardoso
01-08-2011, 05:18 PM
Peter King has already back peddled on his initial comments.

but he obviously talked to john and something made him say something like this! he's probably only backtracking because John or other broncos personal called peter king and told him to back track. I don't think anyone would just make something like this up and John hasnt been to positive on Tebow so i wouldn't doubt any rumors like this.

Dzone
01-08-2011, 05:20 PM
LOL...in any event, if this is true that Elway actually said these things to Peter King, then Elway owes people an explanation. If he is saying these things to people, then he is out of line, unless he is hellbent on getting rid of Tebow asap...

Kapaibro
01-08-2011, 05:21 PM
Well I read those quotes from elway, and not one of them said Tim was bad.
They said he had talent, drive and motivation to be a great footballer.
They said with the right coaching he can be a great QB.
They said any coach is entitled to look at ALL the QB's on the roster, but needs to understand the Broncos want to work with Tim.

Y'all are just over reacting to someone else's incorrect interpretation of John's comments.

Kapaibro
01-08-2011, 05:22 PM
but he obviously talked to john and something made him say something like this! he's probably only backtracking because John or other broncos personal called peter king and told him to back track. I don't think anyone would just make something like this up and John hasnt been to positive on Tebow so i wouldn't doubt any rumors like this.

Yeah, cos journalists never make shit up.:rolleyes:

Tned
01-08-2011, 05:23 PM
John Elway (of Twitter fame), clarifies his comments:


RT @johnelway: To clarify my thoughts on Tim Tebow... I think he's a very good football player, and if anyone can turn themselves into a great QB, Tim can.

RT @johnelway: Myself and our entire organization think very highly of him. We are pleased with his first year as a Bronco.

Tned
01-08-2011, 05:25 PM
Additionally:


RT @johnelway: Any speculation that the Denver Broncos are considering moving Tim is completely false.

TXBRONC
01-08-2011, 05:25 PM
but he obviously talked to john and something made him say something like this! he's probably only backtracking because John or other broncos personal called peter king and told him to back track. I don't think anyone would just make something like this up and John hasnt been to positive on Tebow so i wouldn't doubt any rumors like this.

No one saying he made it up but it's not unheard for anyone misunderstand another person. Just yesterday Elway said he likes Tebow but also a lot work to do to become a good quarterback.

Dzone
01-08-2011, 05:25 PM
John Elway (of Twitter fame), clarifies his comments:

Yea, I think he did a pretty good job of it. That was pretty classy of Elway to say that right away. Ok, I dont hate elway anymore...LOL

cardoso
01-08-2011, 05:26 PM
@johnelway: Any speculation that the Denver Broncos are considering moving Tim is completely false.

You better not be lying to us John!

Dzone
01-08-2011, 05:27 PM
whew, glad thats over, now we can get back to talking about the draft...hahaha

cardoso
01-08-2011, 05:28 PM
Yea, I think he did a pretty good job of it. That was pretty classy of Elway to say that right away. Ok, I dont hate elway anymore...LOL

diddo I semi like him again!

Denver Native (Carol)
01-08-2011, 05:30 PM
damn....calm down. :lol:

EXACTLY - what the HELL is going on with some in this thread. King says something so TOTALLY inaccurate that he posts a CLARIFICATION on his twitter - which is NOTHING like he initially said, and SOME WANT ELWAY'S HEAD ON A PLATTER.

GIVE ME A BREAK

Denver Native (Carol)
01-08-2011, 05:33 PM
On Denver Broncos Rookie QB Tim Tebow

"The advantage is his attitude and work ethic. He wants to be the best that he can possibly be. He's not going to cut any corners to try to the be the best he can be. He didn't come out of a pro-oriented type offense. He came out of the option, the shot gun, foot work wise and technique wise that I've been able to see from the past three games, that's gotta improve. When you can improve his mechanics you can improve his accuracy. We have high expectations of Tim. The coach that comes in has got to be able to work with him as far as technique and accuracy. He's still young. He's a good football player because he wants to win, he’s a competitor. He has those intangibles that you can't coach, but the next guy that comes in as far the offense goes, they’ve got to be able to make him a good quarterback. Tim didn’t get a lot of reps during the season, Kyle was the one they gave all the reps to. I admired him for the way he played, but you have to understand that he’s still a rookie that has a long way to go. What we saw was his maturity and that he would compete in all circumstances, which is a great quality to have because you can’t coach it."

http://www.877theticket.com/page.php?page_id=59

Tned
01-08-2011, 05:33 PM
EXACTLY - what the HELL is going on with some in this thread. King says something so TOTALLY inaccurate that he posts a CLARIFICATION on his twitter - which is NOTHING like he initially said, and SOME WHAT ELWAY'S HEAD ON A PLATTER.

GIVE ME A BREAK


Danver fans have something akin to PTSD after McDaniels destruction of team, secrecy and trading away of talent. Leaves fans quick to assume team will make same mistakes again.

Elway, or the PR departement in his name, was VERY smart to get on top of this quick, rather than taking a "we don't talk about our plans with the 'player'" as they would have under the McDaniels regime.

hamrob
01-08-2011, 05:37 PM
Elway has said the very same thing over and over again. Tim is a good football player who needs to work on becoming a great QB. It's not like people are going to stop asking him his thoughts on Tim.

The problem is...hoards of analysts are praying that Tebow fails...they want so badly for Elway to join their ranks.

Elway really has not choice but to strap his future to Tebow's. Because when Elway refuses to join the ranks of Peter king and Helmet Head, he makes himself an easy target.

We need to hurry up and hire a coach...and get onto the draft.

camdisco24
01-08-2011, 05:41 PM
Bronco Land can take a deep breath now.

BroncoStud
01-08-2011, 05:44 PM
TT is the last problem this team faces, he EXCEEDED expectations this year... Why doesn't John spend his time trying to put a coach on his "list" that doesn't suck and why doesn't he start scouting defense.

threefolddead
01-08-2011, 05:47 PM
Any player is still raw three games into their career... And these reporters want reactions like this out of people. It's how they can report crap and keep their jobs!

Tempus Fugit
01-08-2011, 05:47 PM
Great start by Elway. He should just have kicked Tebow in the stones while he was at it.

Tned
01-08-2011, 05:49 PM
Great start by Elway. He should just have kicked Tebow in the stones while he was at it.

The problem wasn't Elway, it was Peter King.

Andrew Mason reminds us of another thing that Elway said in his press conference:


RT @MaxBroncos: Elway, 1/5: "I don’t believe any (potential HC will) say, ‘I don’t want Tim Tebow.’ If they do, maybe they're not the right guy for the job”

elsid13
01-08-2011, 05:55 PM
I don't understand the over reaction to anything that deals with Tebow. Fact is that he is a rookie QB, that needs to develop into pro pocket passer if Denver is going to use him as their starting QB. He is raw and he has a lot of work to do if he wants to step it up the level of good NFL starter. He is behind guy's like Luck because he still getting the fundamentals of playing in pro style offense under center and turning his back to the defense on PA.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-08-2011, 06:03 PM
TT is the last problem this team faces, he EXCEEDED expectations this year... Why doesn't John spend his time trying to put a coach on his "list" that doesn't suck and why doesn't he start scouting defense.

WELL - I will be the FIRST one to ADMIT that I don't know what John is doing, and I will also be the FIRST one to ADMIT that I don't know if John has coaches on his list from teams still in the playoffs.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-08-2011, 06:05 PM
Why dont we all blame John for King screwing up :tsk: Heaven forbid that people get upset with King for starting this pile of sh** in the first place :mad:

John - you have a target on your back - you had better realize that

BroncoStud
01-08-2011, 06:13 PM
My point is that Peter King got him impression from Elway... He didn't just make this up from thin air... Elway said something that implied something...

King is a big McDaniels guy, he was probably feeling Elway out on Tebow, John clearly said SOMETHING that gave King ammuntion.

Like I said, I hope Elway does his job 1/10 as well as Tebow has done his so far.

Northman
01-08-2011, 06:14 PM
I think im going to have to utilize the ignore feature again. It was going so well but damn if there arent 3-4 annoying people on this forum right now who are overly dramatic. Jesus christ its pathetic.

T.K.O.
01-08-2011, 06:21 PM
the ONLY thing Elway could be guilty of is not knowing that every single thing he says is gonna be blown up,ripped apart and used whichever way suits somebody's purpose.
sure he knows he's in the spotlight....but he's about to learn the power of the microscope.
it's actually funny

BroncoStud
01-08-2011, 06:22 PM
the ONLY thing Elway could be guilty of is not knowing that every single thing he says is gonna be blown up,ripped apart and used whichever way suits somebody's purpose.
sure he knows he's in the spotlight....but he's about to learn the power of the microscope.
it's actually funny

Yeah I'm sure Elway was a bit surprised to wake up and see this from Peter King... Methinks he will learn to speak to the media in very vague terms.

claymore
01-08-2011, 06:28 PM
eff Tim Tebow. God I hope we trade this POS.

Dirk
01-08-2011, 06:29 PM
eff Tim Tebow. God I hope we trade this POS.

You always say the right things clay.....:laugh:

claymore
01-08-2011, 06:30 PM
I think im going to have to utilize the ignore feature again. It was going so well but damn if there arent 3-4 annoying people on this forum right now who are overly dramatic. Jesus christ its pathetic.

Id like to give Tebow a chance like a normal rookie. But for whatever reason he makes people act bat shit crazy.

I cant believe any real Bronco fan would question Elways comments about an effin Rookie QB with MAJOR flaws as a QB.

Northman
01-08-2011, 06:36 PM
Id like to give Tebow a chance like a normal rookie. But for whatever reason he makes people act bat shit crazy.

I cant believe any real Bronco fan would question Elways comments about an effin Rookie QB with MAJOR flaws as a QB.


Sorry, 3 games isnt a chance and if you believe it is you dont know football man. But then again, you complain about EVERYTHING Bronco related so its hard to gauge you personally what your stance is. :lol:

PAINTERDAVE
01-08-2011, 06:36 PM
My point is that Peter King got him impression from Elway... He didn't just make this up from thin air... Elway said something that implied something...

King is a big McDaniels guy, he was probably feeling Elway out on Tebow, John clearly said SOMETHING that gave King ammuntion.

Like I said, I hope Elway does his job 1/10 as well as Tebow has done his so far.

Yeah, King did make this stuff up from thin air.
He was looking for something controversial to say in the 25 seconds they gave him.
His hits online are through the roof.
he is probably making cash for this rumour.

He came back and clarified.. backpedaled.
Just like the rest of the drive by media..
he drove by slowly, threw a bomb into the crowd..
and is off laughing and on to his next rumour to spread.

Elway will learn that these guys are not his confidential friends...
he will learn that they will throw him under the bus in a heartbeat.

After these last 4 days..
I expect we'll see Elway keeping his mouth shut a lot more often.

King is a hack.

BroncoStud
01-08-2011, 06:37 PM
I have not seen where King said that he never discussed this with Elway? Of course King took it and ran, but Elway said something to give him the ball...

Northman
01-08-2011, 06:40 PM
I have not seen where King said that he never discussed this with Elway? Of course King took it and ran, but Elway said something to give him the ball...

No, King just didnt give the whole story and was very misleading.

PAINTERDAVE
01-08-2011, 06:40 PM
Id like to give Tebow a chance like a normal rookie. But for whatever reason he makes people act bat shit crazy.

I cant believe any real Bronco fan would question Elways comments about an effin Rookie QB with MAJOR flaws as a QB.

Tebow cant make anyone do anything.
he keeps his head down and does what he does.

It is the "bat shit crazy" media that wont leave him alone.
They have no control of themselves... they are out of contrl an irresponsible... not real journalists at all...
but you can't blame it on the kid.

King is a rumour mongering hack.... plain and simple.

Tebow will fail or succeed on the field...
not the CBS studios.

topscribe
01-08-2011, 06:43 PM
:salute:No doubt about it. This is NO WAY to start the first week on the job, letting rumors get out about Tebow.. Hope this isnt a bad omen. Tebow has it in him to be the savior of the franchise, not John Elway. Elway wants to be known as the man who came in and rescued the Broncos. Can he handle being in Tebows shadow? Maybe not.

Hyperbole much? :coffee:

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
01-08-2011, 06:49 PM
but he obviously talked to john and something made him say something like this! he's probably only backtracking because John or other broncos personal called peter king and told him to back track. I don't think anyone would just make something like this up and John hasnt been to positive on Tebow so i wouldn't doubt any rumors like this.

It's called Peter King is a complete SHITBAG and is trying to "create" stories to report on. Elway said Tebow is "raw" and "not a good NFL QB right now". King utilized these quotes while cutting out all the good things Elway had to say about him and focused the entire football world on those negative statements in order to drum up interest. He essentially invented something that wasn't there so he could report on it.

It's no secret that Peter King isn't exactly looked at as a top guy in the business, anymore. He doesn't even get much in the way of airtime except a brief spot on NBC once a week. Print is dead and because he's a print guy (SI) his career is all but dead, too. He's stooped to trumping up non-event quotes and making shit up to get press. He's garbage and Elway should publicly squash this BS and King...:tsk:

Oh, King is also a complete McDaniels penis-gobbler and this was really brought up because McDaniels is getting interviews with teams for OC spots. King wants McDaniels to convince whatever team hires his sorry ass to try to trade for Tebow so he's making it out to an "I can see this happening" because he wants it to happen. King's an ass.

Sinthor
01-08-2011, 06:50 PM
Well, obviously, there was some colorizing on King's part. He's backing off of things pretty quickly. Kudo's to Elway for recognizing the situation and putting out some good clarification.

Bottom line: Elway has to figure out how to talk to the press. I have no doubt he said (if he even talked straight to King) the same thing he said in his conference, that they need to make Tebow a good quarterback. What Elway no doubt MEANS by all of this is pretty much what he's said, Tebow's a raw, rookie and there's improvements that need to be made. Don't think many would question this. However, he has to realize that the media will take that statement and believe it to mean he's saying Tebow isn't a good QB. Thus, by extension, he needs to go. Elway SHOULD have said something like 'Tebow did good, he's obviously a good football player and a good quarterback. We need to help make him a GREAT quarterback and see if he can be a great quarterback.' Something like that.

Elway just doesn't realize yet how the media will take and spin nuance and meaning into anything he says, especially about Tebow with all of the press around his being drafted, etc. and especially after the McDaniels fiasco. He needs to realize he needs to make supportive and positive statements only, so that he quiets the media focus on all of this. When steps are taken, make the announcements, but don't talk too much about what's going on in between. That's all this is.

Meanwhile, now Elway's no doubt having to call Tebow and his agent, as well as make 20 public statements to clarify and defend ONE statement to the media. A few of these situations and I'm sure Elway will figure it out pretty quick.

claymore
01-08-2011, 08:07 PM
Sorry, 3 games isnt a chance and if you believe it is you dont know football man. But then again, you complain about EVERYTHING Bronco related so its hard to gauge you personally what your stance is. :lol:
I think my feelings on how this organization would wind up were pretty accurate.

My irritation for Tebow transcends football all together. People worship him. Its a huge turnoff seeing the douche nozzles come out of the woodworks over this guy. And throw Elway under the bus for analyzing a PLAYER.

claymore
01-08-2011, 08:08 PM
Well, obviously, there was some colorizing on King's part. He's backing off of things pretty quickly. Kudo's to Elway for recognizing the situation and putting out some good clarification.

Bottom line: Elway has to figure out how to talk to the press. I have no doubt he said (if he even talked straight to King) the same thing he said in his conference, that they need to make Tebow a good quarterback. What Elway no doubt MEANS by all of this is pretty much what he's said, Tebow's a raw, rookie and there's improvements that need to be made. Don't think many would question this. However, he has to realize that the media will take that statement and believe it to mean he's saying Tebow isn't a good QB. Thus, by extension, he needs to go. Elway SHOULD have said something like 'Tebow did good, he's obviously a good football player and a good quarterback. We need to help make him a GREAT quarterback and see if he can be a great quarterback.' Something like that.

Elway just doesn't realize yet how the media will take and spin nuance and meaning into anything he says, especially about Tebow with all of the press around his being drafted, etc. and especially after the McDaniels fiasco. He needs to realize he needs to make supportive and positive statements only, so that he quiets the media focus on all of this. When steps are taken, make the announcements, but don't talk too much about what's going on in between. That's all this is.

Meanwhile, now Elway's no doubt having to call Tebow and his agent, as well as make 20 public statements to clarify and defend ONE statement to the media. A few of these situations and I'm sure Elway will figure it out pretty quick.
Elway doesnt need to acall anyone, he is the Boss. Tebow is under contract until he is traded.

claymore
01-08-2011, 08:11 PM
Tebow cant make anyone do anything.
he keeps his head down and does what he does.

It is the "bat shit crazy" media that wont leave him alone.
They have no control of themselves... they are out of contrl an irresponsible... not real journalists at all...
but you can't blame it on the kid.

King is a rumour mongering hack.... plain and simple.

Tebow will fail or succeed on the field...
not the CBS studios.

The beatles didnt make anyone crazy either. People are crazy. Regardless of what Elway said, Tebow is just a kid rookie who hasnt proven anything for the Broncos. Im in shock any Bronco fan would call out Elway for anything he said.

silkamilkamonico
01-08-2011, 08:18 PM
I think my feelings on how this organization would wind up were pretty accurate.

My irritation for Tebow transcends football all together. People worship him. Its a huge turnoff seeing the douche nozzles come out of the woodworks over this guy. And throw Elway under the bus for analyzing a PLAYER.

Could not agree more with everything you have said. I thought the Jay Cutler drama was an all time high when McDaniels was thinking about trading him/traded him in terms of the pro cutlers vs pro McDaniels stance (not to mention a good portion of pro McDaniels have admitted how wrong they were on that one).

Tim Tebow has already surpassed that circus, and he's hardly even had his feet wet.

Tim Tebow is a very hard guy to not like, and the Tim Tebow fanclub make it virtually impossible to like him. It is at a point where the Tim Tebow aura is bigger than the organizationm and that is sad. Tim Tebow would be embarassed.

BroncoStud
01-08-2011, 08:22 PM
Could not agree more with everything you have said. I thought the Jay Cutler drama was an all time high when McDaniels was thinking about trading him/traded him in terms of the pro cutlers vs pro McDaniels stance (not to mention a good portion of pro McDaniels have admitted how wrong they were on that one).

Tim Tebow has already surpassed that circus, and he's hardly even had his feet wet.

Tim Tebow is a very hard guy to not like, and the Tim Tebow fanclub make it virtually impossible to like him. It is at a point where the Tim Tebow aura is bigger than the organizationm and that is sad. Tim Tebow would be embarassed.

I think there are more people that hate Tim Tebow than like him - by a LOT.

Funny, I was in Dallas Thursday at a business lunch at a place this guy owned and Tebow was on ESPN being interviewed and a guy looks at me and says "man I hate that guy"... He didn't know I was a Broncos fan.

I asked him why and he said he "just did"...

I think there are so many more people than HATE Tebow than like him.

camdisco24
01-08-2011, 08:24 PM
I think there are more people that hate Tim Tebow than like him - by a LOT.

Funny, I was in Dallas Thursday at a business lunch at a place this guy owned and Tebow was on ESPN being interviewed and a guy looks at me and says "man I hate that guy"... He didn't know I was a Broncos fan.

I asked him why and he said he "just did"...

I think there are so many more people than HATE Tebow than like him.

The hatred is what brings out the fire in so many of his fans.

I didnt understand it at first, but now I can see why they are all so paranoid/over protective.

topscribe
01-08-2011, 08:24 PM
I think there are more people that hate Tim Tebow than like him - by a LOT.

Funny, I was in Dallas Thursday at a business lunch at a place this guy owned and Tebow was on ESPN being interviewed and a guy looks at me and says "man I hate that guy"... He didn't know I was a Broncos fan.

I asked him why and he said he "just did"...

I think there are so many more people than HATE Tebow than like him.

Going by the record-breaking sales of Tebow's jerseys, I would take a wild
guess that there are a lot of people who love him . . .

-----

silkamilkamonico
01-08-2011, 08:27 PM
I think there are more people that hate Tim Tebow than like him - by a LOT.

Funny, I was in Dallas Thursday at a business lunch at a place this guy owned and Tebow was on ESPN being interviewed and a guy looks at me and says "man I hate that guy"... He didn't know I was a Broncos fan.

I asked him why and he said he "just did"...

I think there are so many more people than HATE Tebow than like him.

That's just the thing. I don't think there are alot of people that hate Tim Tebow personally. I mean how can you, he's a flat out great guy that's genuine, and does so much more than just play football. I could be wrong. I hate the Tim Tebow football aura, and that's ONLY because every where I turn, like Clay said, I see "douche nozzles" talking about how godly he is.

I have seen threads here about how he's going to be better than Peyton Manning.

I even saw one thread, from a strictly Tim Tebow fan, bash John Elway before Elway was even hired in the front office, and saw a good portion of "genuine" Denver fans agree with him/

The Tim Tebow hype has reached "utterly ridiculous" level.

BroncoStud
01-08-2011, 08:27 PM
Going by the record-breaking sales of Tebow's jerseys, I would take a wild
guess that there are a lot of people who love him . . .

-----

Or Florida has a LOT of fans...

spikerman
01-08-2011, 09:02 PM
I didn't read through the entire thread so I apologize if this has already been asked. Why is it that so many Tebow supporters believe a person hates TT if they don't constantly heap praise upon him or if they happen to mention a particular weakness?

C'mon people, get a grip. Tebow has a LOT of work to do. He would be the first to admit it.

claymore
01-08-2011, 09:05 PM
Could not agree more with everything you have said. I thought the Jay Cutler drama was an all time high when McDaniels was thinking about trading him/traded him in terms of the pro cutlers vs pro McDaniels stance (not to mention a good portion of pro McDaniels have admitted how wrong they were on that one).

Tim Tebow has already surpassed that circus, and he's hardly even had his feet wet.

Tim Tebow is a very hard guy to not like, and the Tim Tebow fanclub make it virtually impossible to like him. It is at a point where the Tim Tebow aura is bigger than the organizationm and that is sad. Tim Tebow would be embarassed.

Its one thing to question an unproven cherry HC for something which I myslef viewed as delusional/crazy behavior.

Its another to question a HOF QB, one of the greatest of all time, the icon of a state, and the dude that put your franchise on a map...

I trust Elways evaluation on a position that he mastered. If he wants to cut Tim Tebow outright, Im behind him a 100%. If he wants tebow to play LB, Im behind him a 100%.

Tim tebow would have to be Jesus Christ reincarnated for me to ever choose his side over Elways.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-08-2011, 09:09 PM
For those of us who watched Elway's entire career, we all know that John was criticized many times - IT HAPPENS

PAINTERDAVE
01-08-2011, 09:23 PM
I think there are more people that hate Tim Tebow than like him - by a LOT.

Funny, I was in Dallas Thursday at a business lunch at a place this guy owned and Tebow was on ESPN being interviewed and a guy looks at me and says "man I hate that guy"... He didn't know I was a Broncos fan.

I asked him why and he said he "just did"...

I think there are so many more people than HATE Tebow than like him.

Anecdotal evidence never proves a point empiricaly.

I bet there are more people who dont even know who he is...
than hate or love him.

In the song on the clip in my sig..
there is a line.

"It's easy to hate... harder to love me..."

Lot's of judgmental haters in the world...

They just dont understand..
"blowing out the flame of another's candle
will not make mine burn brighter in the darkness"

Hatred is such an ugly, immature condition to choose in life.

PAINTERDAVE
01-08-2011, 09:30 PM
For those of us who watched Elway's entire career, we all know that John was criticized many times - IT HAPPENS

I defended him back in the day...
I always loved him and my Broncos.

When Reeves drafted Maddox..
some thought John was all washed up.
I defended him then.

That pick was instead of Carl Pickens.
Reeves was so blind.

T.K.O.
01-08-2011, 09:46 PM
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx111/broncod63/charlie-brown-tree1-1.jpg?t=1294541065

:laugh::salute:

Agent of Orange
01-08-2011, 09:49 PM
Going by the record-breaking sales of Tebow's jerseys, I would take a wild
guess that there are a lot of people who love him . . .

-----

Practically every poll at any Denver site is overwhelmingly in favor of Tebow. He's won over the city. Thats just the truth.

Lancane
01-08-2011, 10:22 PM
Practically every poll at any Denver site is overwhelmingly in favor of Tebow. He's won over the city. Thats just the truth.

And he could lose it just as quick...and that's the truth. Sorry to burst people's bubble, but if he is no better next year and we can literally see that he's hurting the team, what to come will not be pretty and every year to follow if he doesn't improve it will get worse.

Fans are fickle, we can like one thing now and hate it the next.

Agent of Orange
01-08-2011, 10:26 PM
And he could lose it just as quick...and that's the truth. Sorry to burst people's bubble, but if he is no better next year and we can literally see that he's hurting the team, what to come will not be pretty and every year to follow if he doesn't improve it will get worse.

Fans are fickle, we can like one thing now and hate it the next.

Stop campaigning against Tebow. They said the same thing every game but every time he gave everyone a reason to keep watching. He's a gamer and everyone sees it. Give it a rest.

claymore
01-08-2011, 10:28 PM
Tebow's the greatest.

http://sneakers.pair.com/l/heaven.jpg

spikerman
01-08-2011, 10:30 PM
Stop campaigning against Tebow. They said the same thing every game but every time he gave everyone a reason to keep watching. He's a gamer and everyone sees it. Give it a rest.

This is exactly the type of thing I was talking about.

claymore
01-08-2011, 10:31 PM
This is exactly the type of thing I was talking about.

Its a cult. As soon as the Hail Bop comet gets here Tebow will lead them all to heaven.

Agent of Orange
01-08-2011, 10:34 PM
This is exactly the type of thing I was talking about.

I don't care what you were talking about.

Lancane
01-08-2011, 10:34 PM
Stop campaigning against Tebow. They said the same thing every game but every time he gave everyone a reason to keep watching. He's a gamer and everyone sees it. Give it a rest.

I'm not campaigning against Tebow, so know what the hell you're talking about, that would be a good start. Especially since I'm the one who said long before you're asses loved him that we would likely draft him and let's go back and see how many loved him before he was drafted to the team, shall we? So keep up with comments that lack any intelligence or integrity. I like Tebow, but in the same sense I understand he has a lot of work ahead of him, I don't think he's proven shit and he has a tough road ahead of him, I hope he succeeds and that is the truth.

:coffee:

spikerman
01-08-2011, 10:35 PM
I don't care what you were talking about.

:laugh::lol::laugh::lol::laugh::lol:

Agent of Orange
01-08-2011, 10:38 PM
I'm not campaigning against Tebow, so know what the hell you're talking about, that would be a good start. Especially since I'm the one who said long before you're asses loved him that we would likely draft him and let's go back and see how many loved him before he was drafted to the team, shall we? So keep up with comments that lack any intelligence or integrity. I like Tebow, but in the same sense I understand he has a lot of work ahead of him, I don't think he's proven shit and he has a tough road ahead of him, I hope he succeeds and that is the truth.

:coffee:

Give it a rest, dude.

spikerman
01-08-2011, 10:39 PM
Give it a rest, dude.

Probably some advice a few people could use, eh?

Agent of Orange
01-08-2011, 10:43 PM
Probably some advice a few people could use, eh?

You're the one who replied to me. Maybe you should look at yourself.

spikerman
01-08-2011, 10:44 PM
You're the one who replied to me. Maybe you should look at yourself.
Once again, probably good advice for a few people.

Lancane
01-08-2011, 10:46 PM
Give it a rest, dude.

I'll take that as sound advice from some jackwad newbie who hasn't cut his teeth yet on the board.

You wouldn't happen to be Robert Ethan would you? :lol:

Agent of Orange
01-08-2011, 10:47 PM
Once again, probably good advice for a few people.

Im not worried about it but something seems to be bothering you. If you're going to get upset, maybe you should stay out of it.

spikerman
01-08-2011, 10:50 PM
Im not worried about it but something seems to be bothering you. If you're going to get upset, maybe you should stay out of it.

You think I sound upset? Really? Why on Earth would I be upset? Unlike some on here, I don't take peoples' opinions of players personally. I couldn't be more relaxed. Here, I'll show you. :coffee:

Lancane
01-08-2011, 10:51 PM
Once again, probably good advice for a few people.

You know how it is Spike, newbies seem to have that itch in them to attack people when they first get on the board. 'New kid on the block syndrome', have to act tough on a board, instead of making rational, well thought out posts that show an ounce of intelligence. Especially when he doesn't know what a poster's history is. That's like with Ethan said Top was a bandwagon fan...lol.

;)

Agent of Orange
01-08-2011, 10:53 PM
You think I sound upset? Really? Why on Earth would I be upset? Unlike some on here, I don't take peoples' opinions of players personally. I couldn't be more relaxed. Here, I'll show you. :coffee:

I really don't care if youre upset, just like I dont care what you were talking about before. Youve just been coattail riding on Lancane because I said something that upset you. Im sure youll probably deny it, but I dont care.

spikerman
01-08-2011, 10:59 PM
I really don't care if youre upset, just like I dont care what you were talking about before. Youve just been coattail riding on Lancane because I said something that upset you. Im sure youll probably deny it, but I dont care.

You kind of sound like you're about to take your ball and go home. All I said in my first post in this thread was that a lot of people seem to believe that if people find any fault with TT it somehow constitutes "hate." Believe it or not, everybody has faults, including Tebow. I'm not sure how you get that I'm upset from that.

For future reference, there is nothing you can say that would "upset" me. It's only a message board and I don't know you well enough to let your opinion affect me. :beer:

DenBronx
01-08-2011, 11:30 PM
i hate all of you little bitches!!!!!!!!!

jhildebrand
01-08-2011, 11:30 PM
Peter King hasn't been a very good reporter/journalist for a long time. He is an idiot, hack who loves nothing more than to fluff his own ego. The guy loves anything NE including McD.

DenBronx
01-08-2011, 11:31 PM
lets have a fist fight on the internet!!!!

Lancane
01-08-2011, 11:33 PM
i hate all of you little bitches!!!!!!!!!

You know you get that warm-fuzzy feeling deep inside your chest when you think about us!

;)

And if not...GTH and F' UR SELF!

:lol:

Denver Native (Carol)
01-08-2011, 11:39 PM
i hate all of you little bitches!!!!!!!!!


:Cry::hurt::sad::Cry:

cardoso
01-09-2011, 12:44 AM
**** yo couch!

atwater27
01-09-2011, 01:25 AM
this thread smells of douche...

topscribe
01-09-2011, 01:27 AM
this thread smells of douche...

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/BIGrofl2-1.gif Is this the first you've noticed?

-----

Lancane
01-09-2011, 03:05 AM
this thread smells of douche...

Homemade with vinegar or the store bought that has a floral scent mixed with the vinegar-soapy scent?

:lol:

Northman
01-09-2011, 03:20 AM
I think my feelings on how this organization would wind up were pretty accurate.

You and quite a few others.


My irritation for Tebow transcends football all together. People worship him. Its a huge turnoff seeing the douche nozzles come out of the woodworks over this guy. And throw Elway under the bus for analyzing a PLAYER.

While i agree that there a couple of guys who try and hammer Elway for being critical of Tebow it isnt like a massive number of them on this board. And while the gator fans are certainly annoying i still find the number on here very small. But i also find it funny that you of all people would be so quick to hammer on the kid just because he has a crazy fanbase. Personally, i dont watch ESPN or anything like that 24-7 so i guess i just have the same irritation as you do.

Sometimes just stepping back away from the boards or sports news in general is a good thing. So while im sure we agree on some things the one thing that we certainly dont agree on is how much time Tebow has had to try and prove himself. So far, i think he's done a pretty admirable job considering the dipshit that drafted him gave him virtually no prep work. Bottom line though Clay is that there are a few "crazies" as you put it who think the kid can do no wrong but then there are those who already call him a failure and that is equally as annoying.

claymore
01-09-2011, 06:52 AM
You and quite a few others.



While i agree that there a couple of guys who try and hammer Elway for being critical of Tebow it isnt like a massive number of them on this board. And while the gator fans are certainly annoying i still find the number on here very small. But i also find it funny that you of all people would be so quick to hammer on the kid just because he has a crazy fanbase. Personally, i dont watch ESPN or anything like that 24-7 so i guess i just have the same irritation as you do.

Sometimes just stepping back away from the boards or sports news in general is a good thing. So while im sure we agree on some things the one thing that we certainly dont agree on is how much time Tebow has had to try and prove himself. So far, i think he's done a pretty admirable job considering the dipshit that drafted him gave him virtually no prep work. Bottom line though Clay is that there are a few "crazies" as you put it who think the kid can do no wrong but then there are those who already call him a failure and that is equally as annoying.

I havent seen anyone call him a failure. Ive seen a couple that dont think he will ever be a good QB. And Ive seen a few (to include myself) that would rather go thru rookie qb pains with Luck than Tebow.

I live in Fl though, so every time I wear a Bronco anything I get stopped to talk about Tebow.

I dont think Ive ever said 3 games are enough to evaluate Tebow. Ive said we should start to have a better Idea around game 5 or 6 next year once teams have NFL game film on him. 3 years is most probably the standard for judging a rookie. Maybe 5 for a QB?

If we had a chance at taking Luck, id rather have him, if not, im cool with Tebow, but I think it limits us, and we will have to have an offense like the one Plummer used to mask his deficiencies.

elsid13
01-09-2011, 07:59 AM
Its a cult. As soon as the Hail Bop comet gets here Tebow will lead them all to heaven.

Will it be basic grape Kool-Aid or Rock-a-Dile Red, they will be drinking?

claymore
01-09-2011, 08:11 AM
Will it be basic grape Kool-Aid or Rock-a-Dile Red, they will be drinking?

I dont know, something rednecky probably. Just red. Its not even cherry. Just red.

elsid13
01-09-2011, 08:52 AM
What going to be interesting next season is how the Tebow Teddy Bear Cult reacts when he struggles as NFL DCs get more film on him. I strongly expect that there will be calls for Orton or whoever is #2 QB at some point during next season.

TXBRONC
01-09-2011, 09:47 AM
Elway has said the very same thing over and over again. Tim is a good football player who needs to work on becoming a great QB. It's not like people are going to stop asking him his thoughts on Tim.

The problem is...hoards of analysts are praying that Tebow fails...they want so badly for Elway to join their ranks.

Elway really has not choice but to strap his future to Tebow's. Because when Elway refuses to join the ranks of Peter king and Helmet Head, he makes himself an easy target.

We need to hurry up and hire a coach...and get onto the draft.

Carol said she e-mailed Mike Klis about this. Klis said that when heard about it he got a hold of Elway he was told that King took his comments completely out context.

SR
01-09-2011, 09:57 AM
Some of the comments in this thread make me want to vomit. Is this really what Denver Broncos fans have come to be? Jesus effing Jones. Disgusting.

Dzone
01-09-2011, 10:01 AM
Tebow has brought us something we haven't had in a long long time around Colorado and Bronco nation. Love him or hate him, You cant deny the energy he has brought and the hope he has restored. Go ahead and hate him, but he is only bringing good to this struggling franchise. You can't deny that.

Dzone
01-09-2011, 10:05 AM
Peter King throws shit out their just to get a reaction. It gives him attention.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-09-2011, 10:15 AM
in his presser. Instead of talking about a lack of a head coach and pathetic defense that The Boise State Broncos Could score 30 points on he spent most of the time talking about how tebow is "raw" along with a bunch of other crap about him as if Elway has all of a sudden become this great talent evaluator. I loved john but if he did something as stupid as even think about trading Tebow I would no longer like Elway. He needs to focus on finding a coach!

So the franchise savior, the one who led the Broncos to 5 SBs, 2 of which he won, 3 of which had a roster w/ no business sniffing the playoffs, the one who was first ballot HOF, the one who held most NFL QB records when he retired...THAT is the guy you would no longer like if he traded Tim Tebow??? Really???

claymore
01-09-2011, 10:39 AM
So the franchise savior, the one who led the Broncos to 5 SBs, 2 of which he won, 3 of which had a roster w/ no business sniffing the playoffs, the one who was first ballot HOF, the one who held most NFL QB records when he retired...THAT is the guy you would no longer like if he traded Tim Tebow??? Really???

Pretty crazy huh?

SmilinAssasSin27
01-09-2011, 10:41 AM
Pretty crazy huh?

Amazing.

Dean
01-09-2011, 12:08 PM
What going to be interesting next season is how the Tebow Teddy Bear Cult reacts when he struggles as NFL DCs get more film on him. I strongly expect that there will be calls for Orton or whoever is #2 QB at some point during next season.

In looking at his first game to his third, it appears that they may be getting an idea as to how to play Tebow.

http://www.nfl.com/players/timtebow/profile?id=TEB603856

http://www.nfl.com/players/timtebow/situationalstats?id=TEB603856

Tim has shown enough as to mobility and leadership skills but can he consistently throw accurately enough? Can he learn to read defenses quickly enough? I don't believe he has shown enough for us to make even an educated guess. Is he gold or pyrite?

atwater27
01-09-2011, 12:21 PM
So the franchise savior, the one who led the Broncos to 5 SBs, 2 of which he won, 3 of which had a roster w/ no business sniffing the playoffs, the one who was first ballot HOF, the one who held most NFL QB records when he retired...THAT is the guy you would no longer like if he traded Tim Tebow??? Really???

The turncoat mentality of some of my fellow Broncos fans on this site is disturbing.

Buff
01-09-2011, 12:23 PM
The turncoat mentality of some of my fellow Broncos fans on this site is disturbing.

True, but I do find it kind of ironic that you and Clay are the voices of reasons on that topic now.

atwater27
01-09-2011, 12:30 PM
True, but I do find it kind of ironic that you and Clay are the voices of reasons on that topic now.

Do explain. I do nothing but defend Broncos players and coaches that have played or coached well and proven themselves to the franchise. (Or at least played or coached to the best of their ability) If you are insinuating that my lack of support for McDaniels somehow makes it 'ironic' that I would be a 'voice of reason' on this topic, you couldn't me more wrong. Josh didn't prove shit to the franchise, other than how quickly one can destroy one.

Buff
01-09-2011, 12:34 PM
Do explain. I do nothing but defend Broncos players and coaches that have played or coached well and proven themselves to the franchise. (Or at least played or coached to the best of their ability) If you are insinuating that my lack of support for McDaniels somehow makes it 'ironic' that I would be a 'voice of reason' on this topic, you couldn't me more wrong. Josh didn't prove shit to the franchise, other than how quickly one can destroy one.

Point being, you guys were among the biggest critics of the Broncos when it came to Cutler/McDaniels. Now you want to wag your finger at the Tebow fan bois.

You are preaching the same thing at them that a lot of us have been trying to preach at you. Thus, I find it ironic.

elsid13
01-09-2011, 12:35 PM
In looking at his first game to his third, it appears that they may be getting an idea as to how to play Tebow.

http://www.nfl.com/players/timtebow/profile?id=TEB603856

http://www.nfl.com/players/timtebow/situationalstats?id=TEB603856

Tim has shown enough as to mobility and leadership skills but can he consistently throw accurately enough? Can he learn to read defenses quickly enough? I don't believe he has shown enough for us to make even an educated guess. Is he gold or pyrite?

Defense are going to do the same thing they did with Plummer, prove he can hurt them from the pocket and make passes to his receivers with tight coverage. I expect a lot bump and run to start the season.

atwater27
01-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Point being, you guys were among the biggest critics of the Broncos when it came to Cutler/McDaniels. Now you want to wag your finger at the Tebow fan bois.

You are preaching the same thing at them that a lot of us have been trying to preach at you. Thus, I find it ironic.

Show me how I am wagging my finger at 'Tebow fan bois'.

First of all, how could you not be critical of the now infamous treatment of our franchise QB by the now fired coach?

Second of all, the story we are talking about has been proven as bullshit. I am fine with Tebow at QB. So it really has nothing to do with the Cutler situation.

Again, I have no idea what you are talking about. I was just commenting on a fan's supposed demonization of John Elway.

SR
01-09-2011, 12:49 PM
So the franchise savior, the one who led the Broncos to 5 SBs, 2 of which he won, 3 of which had a roster w/ no business sniffing the playoffs, the one who was first ballot HOF, the one who held most NFL QB records when he retired...THAT is the guy you would no longer like if he traded Tim Tebow??? Really???

I'm sorry, but if John Elway wants a different QB because it helps our chances of WINNING, then adios Tim Tebow. Simple people will be pissed if Elways ditches Tebow just because Tebow has a cult-like following, but all of us that consider ourselves fan of the TEAM will forget about Tebow if we start winning again.

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 01:29 PM
In looking at his first game to his third, it appears that they may be getting an idea as to how to play Tebow.

http://www.nfl.com/players/timtebow/profile?id=TEB603856

http://www.nfl.com/players/timtebow/situationalstats?id=TEB603856

Tim has shown enough as to mobility and leadership skills but can he consistently throw accurately enough? Can he learn to read defenses quickly enough? I don't believe he has shown enough for us to make even an educated guess. Is he gold or pyrite?

This is why Elway has referred to him as a good football player, but hasn't raved over him as a QB. He's not a good QB.. yet. He's not accurate, and still loves to run too much. WAYyyy too much.

People get excited because Elway doesn't think Tebow is a good QB, or hasn't proved to be, and he's dead on. Its the same reason that other QBs that watch the game, don't rave on Tebow as a "QB" yet.

Tebow's a great guy though.

claymore
01-09-2011, 01:46 PM
Point being, you guys were among the biggest critics of the Broncos when it came to Cutler/McDaniels. Now you want to wag your finger at the Tebow fan bois.

You are preaching the same thing at them that a lot of us have been trying to preach at you. Thus, I find it ironic.

Cutler was a 3 year starter coming off of a Probowl season, and just set the franchise passing record. Tebow, well hasnt done anything here.

McDaniels was an unproven cherry HC. We were told he wouldnt have all the power.

Elway is the man. The face of Colorado. I dont really need to expand on what he is, or means.

Same situations, but there are different circumstances surrounding them entirely.

I have loyalty to proven Broncos. Not newbs.

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 01:55 PM
Point being, you guys were among the biggest critics of the Broncos when it came to Cutler/McDaniels. Now you want to wag your finger at the Tebow fan bois.

You are preaching the same thing at them that a lot of us have been trying to preach at you. Thus, I find it ironic.

Well, I think you just pointed out that those of us that were critical of the Cutler/McDaniels f-up.... were right!!

so yeah, I'm critical of Tebow and his QB play. Even more so after watching his first three starts.

But I like him as a person.

SR
01-09-2011, 01:57 PM
Tebow offered a mixed bag in his first three starts. The game against Houston was good, but the last game against SD was awful. He wasn't accurate as a passer AT ALL.

spikerman
01-09-2011, 01:59 PM
Tebow offered a mixed bag in his first three starts. The game against Houston was good, but the last game against SD was awful. He wasn't accurate as a passer AT ALL.

And in the NFL accuracy is what matters. There is a difference between the NFL and college as to what "an open receiver" means. That's something that TT will have to work on and this is probably one of the things that Elway was talking about.

SR
01-09-2011, 02:01 PM
I know Tebow will work on any and everything he needs to in order to achieve success. Not worried about that in the least.

Northman
01-09-2011, 02:10 PM
I'm sorry, but if John Elway wants a different QB because it helps our chances of WINNING, then adios Tim Tebow. Simple people will be pissed if Elways ditches Tebow just because Tebow has a cult-like following, but all of us that consider ourselves fan of the TEAM will forget about Tebow if we start winning again.

Definitely, much like we did when Cutler got traded. Just got to move on right Claymore? :lol:

Krugan
01-09-2011, 02:12 PM
Wow, you know the things he says about Tebow, they are the truth.

He has a lot of work to do, its not like we would be trading Montana in his prime, or elway trading himself.

honestly, its not like the kid is something more than a 3 time starter with a crap load of work to do to become a top 5 QB...

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 02:12 PM
Definitely, much like we did when Cutler got traded. Just got to move on right Claymore? :lol:

Come on North, not the same situation at all. Not even close.

claymore
01-09-2011, 02:18 PM
Definitely, much like we did when Cutler got traded. Just got to move on right Claymore? :lol:

If Tebow goes to the PB, and sets the franchise passing record in his third year, then we trade him, I will be equally pissed off. In fact Id probably just stop watching football.

I can only take one massive utter Football failure per decade.

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 02:23 PM
Tebow offered a mixed bag in his first three starts. The game against Houston was good, but the last game against SD was awful. He wasn't accurate as a passer AT ALL.

I respectfully disagree.

The 2nd half against SD, when they changed the game plan..
Tebow was much better than in the first half.

Not saying the rookie was awesome..
just sayin' your analysis is incorrect.

"wasn't accurate as a passer AT ALL."...
that is just not true.

AT ALL.. is an absolute statement. Tim DID have some success.

Northman
01-09-2011, 02:27 PM
Come on North, not the same situation at all. Not even close.


Yes and no.

Jay was still traded very early in his career when people (and some still do) believe he isnt a franchise QB.

Had Jay been traded after 3 games would you guys still feel the same way? I dont think so.

Now, i dont know if Tebow is that same calibur but to simply say he isnt worth the time or effort is silly.

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 02:32 PM
Yes and no.

Jay was still traded very early in his career when people (and some still do) believe he isnt a franchise QB.

Had Jay been traded after 3 games would you guys still feel the same way? I dont think so.

Now, i dont know if Tebow is that same calibur but to simply say he isnt worth the time or effort is silly.

Most said that Jay was a franchise QB, hence the media coverage and giving up 2 first rounds for him. Not to mention he just came off a pro-bowl season.

But Tebow has three games. Do I know he's not worth the time? I don't know, but I know right now he has a LONG long ways to go.

So if, a guy like Elway can watch his game tapes and determine he's got more time than you and I realize, I'm goign to take his understanding of the game and the position. Many QBs that watch the games, have said that Tebow has a LOooong ways to go before becoming a good QB in this league, and I'm honest in saying I absolutely agree with them. I saw a BIGGER project than I had anticipated seeing at this point of the season.

Trading him wouldn't say he isn't worth the time and effort. Its saying 'the time and effort on another player would probably gain higher dividends.'

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 02:34 PM
I respectfully disagree.

The 2nd half against SD, when they changed the game plan..
Tebow was much better than in the first half.

Not saying the rookie was awesome..
just sayin' your analysis is incorrect.

"wasn't accurate as a passer AT ALL."...
that is just not true.

AT ALL.. is an absolute statement. Tim DID have some success.

No.. you just have a different opinion. His assessment is fine, and Tebow has proved to be an inaccurate passer so far, and that game showed it to the utmost.

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 02:34 PM
Wow, you know the things he says about Tebow, they are the truth.

He has a lot of work to do, its not like we would be trading Montana in his prime, or elway trading himself.

honestly, its not like the kid is something more than a 3 time starter with a crap load of work to do to become a top 5 QB...

Point is... this fan base is sick and tired of trading away our skill players
and watching them go on to have sucess for other teams.

Tebow has been here a year.. he is poised on the brink of
showing the world what kind of stuff he is made of... for real.

I want to KNOW if he can succeed in the NFL.
I want t know what he wll do for the BRONCOS.

We drafted him.. we trained him for a year.
We invested in him with those 3 games (Oak, Tex, SD)...
we need to reap the benefit of his success if he can be succesful.

How horrifying would it be to trade him away and watch him
go somewhere else and have tremendous success?

What reflection would that be on Elway /Xanders/Bowlen?...

to trade away Tebow and then watch him take another team to the playoffs..
and posibbly beyond?

No way to know right now...
we fans who back the kid..
we just want to know...

and we will put up with all of the "experts" telling us it wont happen.

We are now invested in the kid's success.
That is what it is to be a fan....
you love the team... and you come to root for and love the players.

Some NFL fans can look at it like a Doctor...
all analytical and dispassionate.

Many of us do not.
We bleed orange and Blue...
and we want to see what Tebow can do in 2011.

One season ... that is all we are talking about.
Give the kid a shot.

claymore
01-09-2011, 02:34 PM
Yes and no.

Jay was still traded very early in his career when people (and some still do) believe he isnt a franchise QB.

Had Jay been traded after 3 games would you guys still feel the same way? I dont think so.

Now, i dont know if Tebow is that same calibur but to simply say he isnt worth the time or effort is silly.

If it were Elway making the decision, I wouldnt give 2 squirts. Unless Plummer was the backup, then I would want a QB drafted.

MacGruder
01-09-2011, 02:39 PM
How horrifying would it be to trade him away and watch him
go somewhere else and have tremendous success?



What if Elway doesn't know how to build a team around Tebow to get the best out of him?

I think this is the problem Elway has.. Elway only knows how to build around someone like himself. And imo Tebow is too revolutionary for Elway and many others to understand the value of or how he fits the game perfectly right now. Elway may be able to take a player like himself and make them look legendary.. amybe this is what he is thinking internally.

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 02:40 PM
Most said that Jay was a franchise QB, hence the media coverage and giving up 2 first rounds for him. Not to mention he just came off a pro-bowl season.

But Tebow has three games. Do I know he's not worth the time? I don't know, but I know right now he has a LONG long ways to go.

So if, a guy like Elway can watch his game tapes and determine he's got more time than you and I realize, I'm goign to take his understanding of the game and the position. Many QBs that watch the games, have said that Tebow has a LOooong ways to go before becoming a good QB in this league, and I'm honest in saying I absolutely agree with them. I saw a BIGGER project than I had anticipated seeing at this point of the season.

Trading him wouldn't say he isn't worth the time and effort. Its saying 'the time and effort on another player would probably gain higher dividends.'

John Elways words on the subject...

1. Any speculation that the Denver Broncos are considering moving Tim is completely false.

2. Myself and our entire organization think very highly of him. We are pleased with his first year as a Bronco.

3. To clarify my thoughts on Tim Tebow... I think he's a very good football player, and if anyone can turn themselves into a great QB, Tim can.

And here you are STILL fomenting the idea of trading him....:confused:

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 02:42 PM
What if Elway doesn't know how to build a team around Tebow to get the best out of him?

I think this is the problem Elway has.. Elway only knows how to build around someone like himself. And imo Tebow is too revolutionary for Elway and many others to understand the value of or how he fits the game perfectly right now. Elway may be able to take a player like himself and make them look legendary.. amybe this is what he is thinking internally.

He's not revolutionary. We've seen QBs in the nfl like Tebow for years. Vince Young is a perfect example. Both are good runners, neither are good passers.

If you build a team in the NFL, you need to have a passing QB, because even the greatest running QBs (Mike Vick) get shut down.. as we've seen Vick be shut down with his running since before mid-season.

As much as you guys want to believe it, Tebow is NOT revolutionizing the QB position. Thats just :lol:

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 02:44 PM
What if Elway doesn't know how to build a team around Tebow to get the best out of him?

I think this is the problem Elway has.. Elway only knows how to build around someone like himself. And imo Tebow is too revolutionary for Elway and many others to understand the value of or how he fits the game perfectly right now. Elway may be able to take a player like himself and make them look legendary.. amybe this is what he is thinking internally.

What if...

what if we DO draft a great defense and get a stud TE..
and Tebow takes us to the palyoffs?

What if...

What if...

What if..
we just give the kid a shot?

If he craps the bed as so many of you seem to insist he will..
and so many others want him to..

then we wll still have a great draft position next seasonn..
and we can continue with the rebuild..
and after 2 years of high draft picks and the new Rookie QB so many seem to want so badly..
then we can spend another year training the new rookie QB...
then we get ANOTHER great draft position...
and in the end we get a solid group of talented guys.

So it make sense to play Tebow and crap out and get the better talent for a few years.

Thanks for the idea.

spikerman
01-09-2011, 02:48 PM
What if Elway doesn't know how to build a team around Tebow to get the best out of him?

I think this is the problem Elway has.. Elway only knows how to build around someone like himself. And imo Tebow is too revolutionary for Elway and many others to understand the value of or how he fits the game perfectly right now. Elway may be able to take a player like himself and make them look legendary.. amybe this is what he is thinking internally.

You do realize that the league has seen players like Tebow before don't you? I don't believe he is "revolutionary". He may turn into a great quarterback, but I think that anybody who looks at it objectively knows that he is nowhere close to that right now. I'm all for giving him a year to see how much he can improve, but to be honest, he probably still won't be "there" in a year. If there is improvement then he should be allowed to continue his development.

I haven't seen or heard anything that suggests that Elway views him as anything more (or less) than a project with potential who needs a lot of work. Who doesn't agree with that assessment?

** Rav beat me to it. Good post Rav!

elsid13
01-09-2011, 02:51 PM
What if Elway doesn't know how to build a team around Tebow to get the best out of him?

I think this is the problem Elway has.. Elway only knows how to build around someone like himself. And imo Tebow is too revolutionary for Elway and many others to understand the value of or how he fits the game perfectly right now. Elway may be able to take a player like himself and make them look legendary.. amybe this is what he is thinking internally.

This what people don't get. Tebow is option spread QB that need to adapt his skills set to how the NFL plays football, not the other way around. Right now he is Seneca Wallace, if he wants to be quality starting NFL QB, he needs to learn how to make plays from the pocket, get the ball off under 3 seconds and put it (the ball) through small passing window. If he can not adapt he just another great college QB that couldn't make in the NFL.

MacGruder
01-09-2011, 03:15 PM
This what people don't get. Tebow is option spread QB that need to adapt his skills set to how the NFL plays football, not the other way around. Right now he is Seneca Wallace, if he wants to be quality starting NFL QB, he needs to learn how to make plays from the pocket, get the ball off under 3 seconds and put it (the ball) through small passing window. If he can not adapt he just another great college QB that couldn't make in the NFL.

I disagree.. saying Tebow is Seneca Wallace because he is a running QB is like saying Tom Brady is Ryan leaf because they both happen to be pure pocket passers.

Tebow is an excellent passer. He is extremely accurate downfield. Tebow's weakness is the short dink and dunk passes NFL offense are built on today.

Steve Young said on ESPN after the Houston game that Tebow could revolutionize the NFL.. a team/coach needs to be innovative enough to understand this and figure out how to build around him.

Maybe the Broncos need Steve Young as their president rather than Elway..

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 03:17 PM
This what people don't get. Tebow is option spread QB that need to adapt his skills set to how the NFL plays football, not the other way around. Right now he is Seneca Wallace, if he wants to be quality starting NFL QB, he needs to learn how to make plays from the pocket, get the ball off under 3 seconds and put it (the ball) through small passing window. If he can not adapt he just another great college QB that couldn't make in the NFL.

Let's see what he does with a season...
I believe he WILL be able to adapt.

Kapaibro
01-09-2011, 03:17 PM
Is this thread still active?

Come on. The OP has been proven to be pure drivel. Close this sucker!

MacGruder
01-09-2011, 03:21 PM
You do realize that the league has seen players like Tebow before don't you? I don't believe he is "revolutionary". He may turn into a great quarterback, but I think that anybody who looks at it objectively knows that he is nowhere close to that right now. I'm all for giving him a year to see how much he can improve, but to be honest, he probably still won't be "there" in a year. If there is improvement then he should be allowed to continue his development.

I haven't seen or heard anything that suggests that Elway views him as anything more (or less) than a project with potential who needs a lot of work. Who doesn't agree with that assessment?

** Rav beat me to it. Good post Rav!

As I just said.. Steve Young said after the Houston game Tebow should revolutionize the game. We have never seen a QB with Tebow's abilities. I think Elway is even working under a false pretense because Tebow had came into about the worst situation imaginable.

No QB has ever had Tebow's combination of abilities.. this is why he revolutionize the position at the college level. They said he couldn't even do what he did in in college in the NFL and he has already set records in just a couple games. But it really isn't that Tebow is revolutionizing the league.. it is that pocket passers are not as dominant as they were in the past. This is why Peyton Manning only has one championship. Look at Mike Vick, he is completely dominant when he is on his game. Tebow may be the only guy that can compete with him because of his freakish skillset. I actually thin Tebow may be more effective than Vick because of his durability.

spikerman
01-09-2011, 03:24 PM
As I just said.. Steve Young said after the Houston game Tebow should revolutionize the game. We have never seen a QB with Tebow's abilities. I think Elway is even working under a false pretense because Tebow had came into about the worst situation imaginable.

No QB has ever had Tebow's combination of abilities.. this is why he revolutionize the position at the college level. They said he couldn't even do what he did in in college in the NFL and he has already set records in just a couple games. But it really isn't that Tebow is revolutionizing the league.. it is that pocket passers are not as dominant as they were in the past. This is why Peyton Manning only has one championship. Look at Mike Vick, he is completely dominant when he is on his game. Tebow may be the only guy that can compete with him because of his freakish skillset. I actually thin Tebow may be more effective than Vick because of his durability.

What combination of abilities does Tebow have that no other QB has had or currently has?

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 03:32 PM
As I just said.. Steve Young said after the Houston game Tebow should revolutionize the game. We have never seen a QB with Tebow's abilities. I think Elway is even working under a false pretense because Tebow had came into about the worst situation imaginable.

No QB has ever had Tebow's combination of abilities.. this is why he revolutionize the position at the college level. They said he couldn't even do what he did in in college in the NFL and he has already set records in just a couple games. But it really isn't that Tebow is revolutionizing the league.. it is that pocket passers are not as dominant as they were in the past. This is why Peyton Manning only has one championship. Look at Mike Vick, he is completely dominant when he is on his game. Tebow may be the only guy that can compete with him because of his freakish skillset. I actually thin Tebow may be more effective than Vick because of his durability.

You are wrong on so many points in this post, I wouldnt' even know where to start. But I'll just leave it to spikes' question.

MacGruder
01-09-2011, 03:33 PM
What combination of abilities does Tebow have that no other QB has had or currently has?

Tebow was one of the best long ball passers in college football if not the best.. AND he was arguably the best short yardage runner.. this is an indefensible skillset. His game is built perfectly to attack defenses.

It is like a basketball player being a great pure shooter AND the best driver in the game.. or a basketball team having an unstoppable post game and the best three point shooters. Tebow provides this in one player.

He also has freakish athleticism. He weighs 240 lbs, 25 lbs heavier than Vick but has a higher Vert.. he has the strength of a lineman.. and is incredibly agile for his size.. and he has incredible stamina. He is the most versatile running QB to ever play the game. He may not be the fastest guy but he can pass and run power and finesse.. oh.. and he is very very intelligent. He isn't just some muscle head. This guy is incredibly smart and intuitive about how he plays the position. We have never seen an athlete this gifted physically and mentally at QB.. since Steve Young. Tebow is like a modern day Steve Young. More power for a harder hitting era.

I view Tebow as the Shaq of running Qbs. Guys like Vick and Vince Young are the Allen Iversons of running QBs. They can run alot on bad defenses like AI can put up a lot of points against bad defenses but Shaq wins all the rings.

I think football personnel either got pure passers or speedy runners and never realized that the ideal is really a player like Tebow. A combination of the 2 and very durable.. It's no accident or fluke Tebow was so dominant in college.

spikerman
01-09-2011, 03:34 PM
What guys like MacGruder don't seem to understand is that we ALL want Tebow to succeed and become a great quarterback. We're just not so blinded by homerism, or whatever it is, to believe that he is already at that level.

horsepig
01-09-2011, 03:37 PM
Well I read those quotes from elway, and not one of them said Tim was bad.
They said he had talent, drive and motivation to be a great footballer.
They said with the right coaching he can be a great QB.
They said any coach is entitled to look at ALL the QB's on the roster, but needs to understand the Broncos want to work with Tim.

Y'all are just over reacting to someone else's incorrect interpretation of John's comments.

Well said. Elway's commenting on a raw, inexperienced rookie qb that needs some polishing. John is also a rook at his job and can be counted to make a few mistakes until he realizes the media will sensationalize every little tidbit he throws out there, just like they did when he was playing.

He might actually be trying to take a little pressure off TT at the moment. If he gushes and TT falls on his face John will not look good. CYA is the name of the game here, IMO.

John has already said that the next HC will not be a guy that is not willing to work with Tebow, 'nough said.

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 03:44 PM
What guys like MacGruder don't seem to understand is that we ALL want Tebow to succeed and become a great quarterback. We're just not so blinded by homerism, or whatever it is, to believe that he is already at that level.

exactly. My criticisms of Tebow aren't because I don't want him to succeed, but I'm also realistic and seeing just how long of a road he has before being a top QB. I'm weary and very doubtful, but hopeful. I'm hopeful because its the best thing for the broncos.

Tebow is a great guy. Hard not to root for him.

spikerman
01-09-2011, 03:49 PM
Tebow was one of the best long ball passers in college football if not the best.. AND he was arguably the best short yardage runner.. this is an indefensible skillset. His game is built perfectly to attack defenses.

It is like a basketball player being a great pure shooter AND the best driver in the game.. or a basketball team having an unstoppable post game and the best three point shooters. Tebow provides this in one player.

He also has freakish athleticism. He weighs 240 lbs, 25 lbs heavier than Vick but has a higher Vert.. he has the strength of a lineman.. and is incredibly agile for his size.. and he has incredible stamina. He is the most versatile running QB to ever play the game. He may not be the fastest guy but he can pass and run power and finesse.. oh.. and he is very very intelligent. He isn't just some muscle head. This guy is incredibly smart and intuitive about how he plays the position. We have never seen an athlete this gifted physically and mentally at QB.. since Steve Young. Tebow is like a modern day Steve Young. More power for a harder hitting era.

I view Tebow as the Shaq of running Qbs. Guys like Vick and Vince Young are the Allen Iversons of running QBs. They can run alot on bad defenses like AI can put up a lot of points against bad defenses but Shaq wins all the rings.

I think football personnel either got pure passers or speedy runners and never realized that the ideal is really a player like Tebow. A combination of the 2 and very durable.. It's no accident or fluke Tebow was so dominant in college.

I thought maybe you were going to have facts to back up your statements instead of opinions, but facts in this subject would be tough to prove. That being said, and I want to preface this by saying that I'm an animal lover and therefore severely dislike Michael Vick, I think that Vick is both a better runner and passer than Tebow. He is not nearly as strong, but he is MUCH faster and it appears to me that he has a much stronger arm than TT. He has also improved his accuracy and his ability to throw from the pocket which is why his name is now being mentioned in MVP talk.

As for being the best deep thrower in college, again that sounds more like opinion than fact, but even if that's true, rarely do deep throws work in the NFL. If you truly believe that TT is already one of the superior QBs in the NFL then more power to you. I would only like to point out that he's 1-2 as a starter in the NFL. Granted, he plays for a weak team, but if he's that dominant he should be able to overcome that.

Let's give the guy a chance to truly become a good quarterback and not annoint him one before he proves it.

MacGruder
01-09-2011, 03:51 PM
What guys like MacGruder don't seem to understand is that we ALL want Tebow to succeed and become a great quarterback. We're just not so blinded by homerism, or whatever it is, to believe that he is already at that level.

I think it is YOU that is missing the point.. I know you guys think you know it all but just try to imagine you don't.. It isn't that Tebow is "already at this level".. the thing is he gives whatever team he is on an unfair advantage. It's that simple. No other Qb has the combination of skills Tebow has.. this is what people get so confused by I think. They are so busy evaluating Tebow as one thing or another they miss how his abilities work together and give his team an unfair advantage. The only way to match it is to get your own Tebow.. and their aren't any.. just like Shaq in the NBA. People are just small minded because they only see 2 types of QBs dominating.. ultra fast guys like Vick and pure passers like Bradford.. not realizing Tebow's weird combo of abilities is even better for this era.

I think this is what Steve Young gets and why he said Tebow should revolutionize the NFL.

horsepig
01-09-2011, 03:53 PM
Tebow's leadership qualities appear to me to be second to none. I have never seen OLmen and other "tough guy" types, like D. Graham and the DLmen, rush all over the place to high five him and to protect him if they percieve the defense trying to rough him up a little--after such a short time holding the reins. He has already won those guys over in just 3 frikkin games!

IMO, that is very rare. You just don't see an entire team react so positively to one raw little ole rook. That is one of his rare skillset attributes.

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 03:54 PM
This is where Tebow stacks up to the current Pro Bowl QBs
after their first three starts in the NFL in several key areas.

Passing Yards
683 Peyton Manning
651 Tim Tebow
618 Tom Brady
511 Matt Ryan
504 Drew Brees
488 Phillip Rivers
225 Michael Vick

Passing TDs
4 Tim Tebow
3 Drew Brees
3 Phillip Rivers
2 Peyton Manning
2 Matt Ryan
2 Tom Brady
2 Michael Vick

Rushing Yards
199 Tim Tebow
123 Michael Vick
41 Drew Brees
26 Peyton Manning
23 Matt Ryan
12 Phillip Rivers
11 Tom Brady

Rushing TDs
3 Tim Tebow
1 Michael Vick
0 Drew Brees
0 Peyton Manning
0 Matt Ryan
0 Phillip Rivers
0 Tom Brady

Experience level during 1st three starts
R Tim Tebow
R Matt Ryan
R Peyton Manning
R Michael Vick (1st two starts)
2 Drew Brees
2 Tom Brady
3 Phillip Rivers


This evidence suggests that Tebow should be given a chance to succeed.
Argueing that he cant throw the ball the way certain people want him to...
does not change these stats.
Tebow can throw the ball from point A to point B.

Ravage!!!
01-09-2011, 03:58 PM
I think it is YOU that is missing the point.. I know you guys think you know it all but just try to imagine you don't.. It isn't that Tebow is "already at this level".. the thing is he gives whatever team he is on an unfair advantage. It's that simple. No other Qb has the combination of skills Tebow has.. this is what people get so confused by I think. They are so busy evaluating Tebow as one thing or another they miss how his abilities work together and give his team an unfair advantage. The only way to match it is to get your own Tebow.. and their aren't any.. just like Shaq in the NBA. People are just small minded because they only see 2 types of QBs dominating.. ultra fast guys like Vick and pure passers like Bradford.. not realizing Tebow's weird combo of abilities is even better for this era.

I think this is what Steve Young gets and why he said Tebow should revolutionize the NFL.

:lol: I think ou need to listen to Steve Young some more, because I think you took his quote completely out of context and meaning. He gives us an unfair advantage :lol: I like that.

I know I know... Superman wears Tebow pajamas, and the NFL is at a disadvantage with Tebow on just ONE team.

In fact, I heard they were going to add into the CBA, a new Tebow rule that required Tebow to play for every team in the NFL, so that no one team had the unfair, Tebow, advantage.

spikerman
01-09-2011, 04:04 PM
:lol: I think ou need to listen to Steve Young some more, because I think you took his quote completely out of context and meaning. He gives us an unfair advantage :lol: I like that.

I know I know... Superman wears Tebow pajamas, and the NFL is at a disadvantage with Tebow on just ONE team.

In fact, I heard they were going to add into the CBA, a new Tebow rule that required Tebow to play for every team in the NFL, so that no one team had the unfair, Tebow, advantage.

Thank you for saving me the time. :beer:

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 04:06 PM
It is a chicekn and egg argument.

One guy says... "get rid of Tebow... he sucks for all these reasons."
then someone argues against the point.

Another thread... a guy says how great tebow is...
then someone argues against the point.

It is NEVER going to end until we see him get a shot.

It will be a LONG, LONG off season.

Deal is...
he IS our QB...
under a 4 year contract.

Go Broncos 2011

spikerman
01-09-2011, 04:13 PM
It is a chicekn and egg argument.

One guy says... "get rid of Tebow... he sucks for all these reasons."
then someone argues against the point.

Another thread... a guy says how great tebow is...
then someone argues against the point.

It is NEVER going to end until we see him get a shot.

It will be a LONG, LONG off season.

Deal is...
he IS our QB...
under a 4 year contract.

Go Broncos 2011

Painter,

I don't think ANYBODY is saying to get rid of him. I think a lot of us are still in "wait and see" mode. Three games isn't enough to judge future success. As I'm sure you know, most of us want him to be great, but we can see the flaws in his game that he's going to have to correct; and while we're hopeful, we don't know for sure that he will succeed. Speaking just for me, from what I've seen I have zero doubt that he'll work as hard, or harder, than anyone ever has to do what needs to become. I'm rooting for the kid, but he's by no means a sure thing.

MacGruder
01-09-2011, 04:21 PM
I thought maybe you were going to have facts to back up your statements instead of opinions, but facts in this subject would be tough to prove.

It's not that simple.. stats are incredibly deceiving. This is why people thought Tebow wasn't a great passer or runner.. because he was playing killer SEC defenses compared to other "elite" Qbs like Bradford and Colt. Also, Tebow did not have a well balanced team. He himself had to be the primary runner for his team. This is why I said Tebow was so underrated especially as a runner. He had little speedy runners that HE himself opened lanes for. He made them look great and defenses focused on stopping him made him look bad. Also, he was such a good passer and teams knew their running weakness so they sat on hsi receivers and DARED the Gators to run. So this is going to hinder his passing numbers.. once again making his runners look good at his expense. This is what people don't realize about Cam Newton. he has a team much more suited to a running non passing QB. this was why Florida let him go because he could not carry the pass heavy Gators passing OR running the ball. Auburn has a power run game and dominant line that would make any pure running QB look great.


That being said, and I want to preface this by saying that I'm an animal lover and therefore severely dislike Michael Vick, I think that Vick is both a better runner and passer than Tebow. He is not nearly as strong, but he is MUCH faster and it appears to me that he has a much stronger arm than TT. He has also improved his accuracy and his ability to throw from the pocket which is why his name is now being mentioned in MVP talk.

Do Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have the strongest arms? Just because you have a strong arm doesn't make you the best passer. Why do people think Tebow can't be a better passer? Tebow has always had a Peyton Manning type approach to the game Vick just acquired. And it doesn't matter how fast you are you are going to get hit. Vick just isn't as big as Tebow.. he's tiny. He has trouble taking hit s in the pocket. Also, why is a guy like Shaq revered in basketball -- a finesse game.. but Tebow isn't revered in football -- a physical game.. it makes no sense.. a guy like Tebow should be revered in football. He's concrete cyanide at the QB position with great finesse skill.


As for being the best deep thrower in college, again that sounds more like opinion than fact, but even if that's true, rarely do deep throws work in the NFL.

Tebow's unstoppable short yardage ability is what makes that long ball threat so effective and deadly. That is why he can do that one man play action pass.


If you truly believe that TT is already one of the superior QBs in the NFL then more power to you. I would only like to point out that he's 1-2 as a starter in the NFL. Granted, he plays for a weak team, but if he's that dominant he should be able to overcome that.

He cam in and played much better than a veteran in Orton who had all season getting the lions share of the starter reps.. and Tebow is adapting to a pro style system AND changing his fundamentals in the process. He set records in just a couple games.. I f you can't see the ability there something is wrong. But I cut you a lot of slack. You need to watch him in college and really try to understand why he is so unstoppable.


Let's give the guy a chance to truly become a good quarterback and not annoint him one before he proves it.

If you don't realize what you have you could be wasting Tebow's prime years.. I think this organization already wasted one season with the fool's fold that is Kyle Orton. I truly think there was a small chance Tebow could have won a championship this year because teams wouldn't have known how to adapt to him. I think he at least could have gotten to the playoffs.

MacGruder
01-09-2011, 04:28 PM
:lol: I think ou need to listen to Steve Young some more, because I think you took his quote completely out of context and meaning. He gives us an unfair advantage :lol: I like that.

I know I know... Superman wears Tebow pajamas, and the NFL is at a disadvantage with Tebow on just ONE team.

In fact, I heard they were going to add into the CBA, a new Tebow rule that required Tebow to play for every team in the NFL, so that no one team had the unfair, Tebow, advantage.

Why do you think Tebow dominated college football like no one in history? And he did it in the toughest era?

I don't know where the disconnect is happening..I am not saying Tebow is some incredible talent as a runner or passer individually.. I am saying he has something no other QB can match.

Steve Young said Tebow should revolutionize the QB position.. he said "we are witnessing greatness"... I think it's YOU that is just not getting it here.

Having the set of abilities Tebow has makes him unstoppable compared to other QBs. He can get first downs at will even against great defenses. Vick can not do this. He can't take the hits Tebow can. Juts like Allen Iverson can't dominant playoff games like Shaq can.

I don't know how else to explain it to you.. it just boggles my mind how obtuse people can be.. here I am explaining it to you and you STILL can't figure it out.. even telling you Steve Young says the same thing. Are you an Orton fan? This is the only way I can explain away this level of obtuseness.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-09-2011, 04:37 PM
MacGruder - question - do you have any idea how much different pro football is from college football - it takes time at the NFL level.

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 04:55 PM
Painter,

I don't think ANYBODY is saying to get rid of him. I think a lot of us are still in "wait and see" mode. Three games isn't enough to judge future success. As I'm sure you know, most of us want him to be great, but we can see the flaws in his game that he's going to have to correct; and while we're hopeful, we don't know for sure that he will succeed. Speaking just for me, from what I've seen I have zero doubt that he'll work as hard, or harder, than anyone ever has to do what needs to become. I'm rooting for the kid, but he's by no means a sure thing.

There are people though, who do come on the board and say "Trade the POS". (Clay)

Then there are several others who advocate drafting another rookie QB...
they tout the NFL readiness of Luck... then when he is out of the picture they scrounge
through the rest of the prospects and search for another rookie QB to tout.

There are still Orton backers who think he can win us over in camp,
when there is no pressure on,
hoping we forget who he has revealled himself to be once the chips are down.

Thern they assert that the new HC will most likely not want to deal with him.

It really just never ends. They try to read between the lines of what Elway said...
interpreting it this way ... not that way.. trying to show that Tebow may soon be gone.

All that aside... I just want to see the kid get a fair shot... just like you.

My point was... if the Tebow detractors quit with their attempts to stir the pot..
there would be far fewer Tebow suporters feeling the need to defend his chance to play and prove himself.

Me? I just cringe when I think of being the team who trades him away untested...
only to see Tim find credible success elswhere..
ie, Steve Young or Brett Favre being traded away by teams before they were succesful.

(Not comparing him to those QB's just the situations)

Denver Native (Carol)
01-09-2011, 04:58 PM
Interesting article


Tape used to be the one thing that never lied about a prospect. Now, general managers watch tape with increasing confusion. The trend in college of spreading receivers across the field and turning quarterbacks into runners is making evaluating those quarterbacks more difficult.

Years ago, scouts struggled to project quarterbacks because many were throwers trapped in running offenses. Now, college quarterbacks are playing a different game than what they will experience in the pros. Scouts don't know what they're seeing.

"You're not seeing the NFL type of game as much," Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome said. "You're seeing four- and five-wide receiver spreads. You're seeing quarterbacks running options. You're seeing quarterbacks throwing the ball more east and west than north and south. What you're not seeing as much is quarterbacks working behind two-tight end offenses with a back and facing eight defenders in the box."

Spread options aren't going away, and while this evolution is creating quarterback prospects able to do more things in passing offenses, it is hampering their preparation for the NFL. More and more, scouts look at tape and see quarterbacks taking their first running steps after they accept a shotgun snap.

That style fits the CFL more than the NFL, and as creative as offensive coaches might be in the NFL, defenses have too many fast athletes to be beaten with a steady diet of quarterback options. Ultimately, teams have to line up in conventional sets, run the ball and work the play-action game with quarterbacks. That's NFL football and it will always be

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2839055

spikerman
01-09-2011, 05:00 PM
There are people though, who do come on the board and say "Trade the POS". (Clay)

Then there are several others who advocate drafting another rookie QB...
they tout the NFL readiness of Luck... then when he is out of the picture they scrounge
through the rest of the prospects and search for another rookie QB to tout.

There are still Orton backers who think he can win us over in camp,
when there is no pressure on,
hoping we forget who he has revealled himself to be once the chips are down.

Thern they assert that the new HC will most likely not want to deal with him.

It really just never ends. They try to read between the lines of what Elway said...
interpreting it this way ... not that way.. trying to show that Tebow may soon be gone.

All that aside... I just want to see the kid get a fair shot... just like you.

My point was... if the Tebow detractors quit with their attempts to stir the pot..
there would be far fewer Tebow suporters feeling the need to defend his chance to play and prove himself.

Me? I just cringe when I think of being the team who trades him away untested...
only to see Tim find credible success elswhere..
ie, Steve Young or Brett Favre being traded away by teams before they were succesful.

(Not comparing him to those QB's just the situations)

I agree that it would be nice if we could all have a reasonable discussion about his good and bad points without it evolving down to TT has no shot to be a good QB vs. TT walks on water. Of course, neither one is close to the truth.

elsid13
01-09-2011, 05:19 PM
I disagree.. saying Tebow is Seneca Wallace because he is a running QB is like saying Tom Brady is Ryan leaf because they both happen to be pure pocket passers.

Tebow is an excellent passer. He is extremely accurate downfield. Tebow's weakness is the short dink and dunk passes NFL offense are built on today.

Steve Young said on ESPN after the Houston game that Tebow could revolutionize the NFL.. a team/coach needs to be innovative enough to understand this and figure out how to build around him.

Maybe the Broncos need Steve Young as their president rather than Elway..

The NFL media machine use the word like genius and revolutionary to darn much. Tebow is no different then any other player that played the game. And look at the playoff and all QB playing in them. They are all pocket passer first and foremost (that includes Vick now), that make plays from the pocket and have the ability to get the ball off quick. The NFL game is built on the quick slants and underneath pass because defense are to fast to allow deep passing game, like the Raider used to, to exist anymore. There is no innovation in today's game, it is about match up and systemic tactical advantages.

Krugan
01-09-2011, 05:23 PM
Painter, im tired of mediocre players at 90% of the positions on this team.

We are talent poor here. Your claim of being tired of players being moved is agreeable, but frankly, if tebow has to go for us to get better, then so be it.

Disclaimer!!!!!!

Im not advocating the move of tebow from any direction.

Any response ealier in this thread was directed to the OP, in which the inital comment was a what pos elway is for even considering moving Tebow.

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 05:40 PM
Painter, im tired of mediocre players at 90% of the positions on this team.

We are talent poor here. Your claim of being tired of players being moved is agreeable, but frankly, if tebow has to go for us to get better, then so be it.

Disclaimer!!!!!!

Im not advocating the move of tebow from any direction.

Any response ealier in this thread was directed to the OP, in which the inital comment was a what pos elway is for even considering moving Tebow.

I see your point... I just disagree that sending Tebow packing will be in the best interest of the team.

McDaniels, in the best interest of the team, sent a draft pick and Hillis for Quinn.
In the best interest of the team, he traded a draft pick for Maroney.

Not every move, for the sake of making a move, is in the best interest of the team.

BroncoStud
01-09-2011, 06:34 PM
Trading Tebow would be the dumbest thing this inept organization could possibly do. With the names being thrown around I'm actually starting to like the idea of Eric Studesville back.

SR
01-09-2011, 07:53 PM
I respectfully disagree.

The 2nd half against SD, when they changed the game plan..
Tebow was much better than in the first half.

Not saying the rookie was awesome..
just sayin' your analysis is incorrect.

"wasn't accurate as a passer AT ALL."...
that is just not true.

AT ALL.. is an absolute statement. Tim DID have some success.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Tebow's passing was shit against SD.

SR
01-09-2011, 07:56 PM
I think it is YOU that is missing the point.. I know you guys think you know it all but just try to imagine you don't.. It isn't that Tebow is "already at this level".. the thing is he gives whatever team he is on an unfair advantage. It's that simple. No other Qb has the combination of skills Tebow has.. this is what people get so confused by I think. They are so busy evaluating Tebow as one thing or another they miss how his abilities work together and give his team an unfair advantage. The only way to match it is to get your own Tebow.. and their aren't any.. just like Shaq in the NBA. People are just small minded because they only see 2 types of QBs dominating.. ultra fast guys like Vick and pure passers like Bradford.. not realizing Tebow's weird combo of abilities is even better for this era.

I think this is what Steve Young gets and why he said Tebow should revolutionize the NFL.

I'd rather have a QB with a rocket arm and minimal scrambling ability, like Peyton Manning, than Tim Tebow.

SR
01-09-2011, 07:59 PM
It is a chicekn and egg argument.

One guy says... "get rid of Tebow... he sucks for all these reasons."
then someone argues against the point.

Another thread... a guy says how great tebow is...
then someone argues against the point.

It is NEVER going to end until we see him get a shot.

It will be a LONG, LONG off season.

Deal is...
he IS our QB...
under a 4 year contract.

Go Broncos 2011

I don't think anyone is saying "get rid of Tebow". You confuse yourself. When people don't agree with you that Tim Tebow is the second coming of Jesus, it doesn't mean we don't want him on our team. I'd venture to say 98% of us want to see him succeed at QB as a Bronco. That said, not all of us are blinded by him and some of us realize that he doesn't possess all of the qualities you want in a QB while still realizing he's one hell of an athlete and has all the potential to be a successful quarterback.

SR
01-09-2011, 08:00 PM
Trading Tebow would be the dumbest thing this inept organization could possibly do. With the names being thrown around I'm actually starting to like the idea of Eric Studesville back.

Actually, hiring Josh McDaniels will always be the dumbest thing this organization will ever do.


(In hindsight. I gave him the benefit of the doubt as long as I could)

Agent of Orange
01-09-2011, 08:01 PM
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Tebow's passing was shit against SD.

Yeah, and in spite of that, he made a lot of plays and made it close at the end. I fail to see the shame in a rookie QB struggling against the leagues top ranked defense. He made a lot of nice throws when it mattere though and ran for 90 yards on top of that.

That passing should come. It looks like we have something with Tebow. He has to be one of the 5 strongest QBs to ever play. Sometimes it seems like he wont go down even if you took your rifle out and shot him.

SR
01-09-2011, 08:04 PM
Yeah, and in spite of that, he made a lot of plays and made it close at the end. I fail to see the shame in a rookie QB struggling against the leagues top ranked defense. He made a lot of nice throws when it mattere though and ran for 90 yards on top of that.

That passing should come. It looks like we have something with Tebow.

I'm not saying he's not a good quarterback, just that his passing was garbage for the majority of the game against the Bolts. He made it close against a San Diego game that knew Denver wasn't going to win the game so they played mostly two deep safeties and didn't blitz a whole lot. Tebow threw two bad picks that game as well. He made some plays, but not before the game was already lost. Like you said, he is a rookie. People just need to quit thinking his shit doesn't stink.

BroncoStud
01-09-2011, 08:05 PM
Actually, hiring Josh McDaniels will always be the dumbest thing this organization will ever do.


(In hindsight. I gave him the benefit of the doubt as long as I could)

I agree and disagree.

I think if you hire McDaniels THE COACH, you're probably fine. Denver screwed up by making him a GM... A 32 year old 1st time GM?... WTF...

Agent of Orange
01-09-2011, 08:08 PM
I agree and disagree.

I think if you hire McDaniels THE COACH, you're probably fine. Denver screwed up by making him a GM... A 32 year old 1st time GM?... WTF...

Even McDaniels the coach leaves a lot to be desired. For example, there was no running game and his staff left a lot to be desired. And the problem he had with Mike Nolan still falls under his authority as a head coach. And then there's also not playing Tebow and calling the idea ridiculous at one point.

SR
01-09-2011, 08:08 PM
I agree and disagree.

I think if you hire McDaniels THE COACH, you're probably fine. Denver screwed up by making him a GM... A 32 year old 1st time GM?... WTF...

That didn't happen though, did it.

PAINTERDAVE
01-09-2011, 08:23 PM
I don't think anyone is saying "get rid of Tebow". You confuse yourself. When people don't agree with you that Tim Tebow is the second coming of Jesus, it doesn't mean we don't want him on our team. I'd venture to say 98% of us want to see him succeed at QB as a Bronco. That said, not all of us are blinded by him and some of us realize that he doesn't possess all of the qualities you want in a QB while still realizing he's one hell of an athlete and has all the potential to be a successful quarterback.

You are one of the problems... making a misleading post like this.

I have NEVER said Tebow is the second coming of Jesus.. like you assert.
I am on record over and over and over.. even in this thread..
saying I want to see the kid get a shot. That's it.
I have no idea if he will ever become elite.. I want to find out...
BEFORE trading him away to go be succesfull somewhere else.

You painting me as an extremist is part of the problem I outlined in this thread...
in fact it was the post you highlighted!

It happens a lot, then the object of the false assertion comes
back and defends... then it escalates.

Thanks for proving my point. You did exactly what that post described.

(And yes, there are several specific posters who are on record over and over saying "get rid of Tebow")

elsid13
01-09-2011, 09:40 PM
I do believe that there are some on this thread that would argue that Tebow will be a better QB then Elway was.

SR
01-09-2011, 10:26 PM
You are one of the problems... making a misleading post like this.

I have NEVER said Tebow is the second coming of Jesus.. like you assert.
I am on record over and over and over.. even in this thread..
saying I want to see the kid get a shot. That's it.
I have no idea if he will ever become elite.. I want to find out...
BEFORE trading him away to go be succesfull somewhere else.

You painting me as an extremist is part of the problem I outlined in this thread...
in fact it was the post you highlighted!

It happens a lot, then the object of the false assertion comes
back and defends... then it escalates.

Thanks for proving my point. You did exactly what that post described.

(And yes, there are several specific posters who are on record over and over saying "get rid of Tebow")

If being realistic is me being "one of the problems", then yeah, I'm a huge problem.

SR
01-09-2011, 10:28 PM
I do believe that there are some on this thread that would argue that Tebow will be a better QB then Elway was.

I don't doubt he has the drive to be and will work as hard as his body will allow, but being a better quarterback than Elway is going to be hard to accomplish for anyone. IMO, there's only one QB in the NFL since Elway that has been better and that's Peyton Manning. I don't think Tebow has any Manning in him. IMO, I don't think we'll see another QB as good as Peyton Manning for a while...not even Luck. That's my opinion though.

PAINTERDAVE
01-10-2011, 12:26 AM
If being realistic is me being "one of the problems", then yeah, I'm a huge problem.

:confused:

cardoso
01-10-2011, 02:29 AM
So the franchise savior, the one who led the Broncos to 5 SBs, 2 of which he won, 3 of which had a roster w/ no business sniffing the playoffs, the one who was first ballot HOF, the one who held most NFL QB records when he retired...THAT is the guy you would no longer like if he traded Tim Tebow??? Really???

yes that's the guy. If you want to dwell and live on the past go for it!

Cugel
01-10-2011, 02:34 AM
Maybe elway feels threatened by tebow's following and love. maybe he doesnt want tebow to go down and the most loved qb in broncos history :rolleyes: I know stupid but geez John go find a damn coach and someone who is going to fix this defense! Tebow is the last of our problems!

And I feel inclined to say "perhaps you're a complete and total moron!" But, let us not rush to judgment on that either. :coffee:

Kapaibro
01-10-2011, 02:41 AM
for the love of football, can this thread be closed already?

Cugel
01-10-2011, 02:42 AM
You know, I rather like Tebow. But, I'm beginning to DISLIKE the completely irrational Tebow-worshipers who think this kid is some kind of savior! He's done almost NOTHING so far and he might very well NOT work out. He's shown some enthusiasm but his mechanics are virtually absent and Elway is right -- he's UTTERLY RAW!

Bottom line: Despite all the hype he might NEVER make the transition to being a great Pocket-passer. And as Elway said in his interview tonight with Ron Zappolo: "the great QBs who win championships have to be great pocket passers." That certainly doesn't apply to Tebwo right now. Hopefully, it will, but it might NOT ever be!

We'll all just have to wait and see next season. But, it looks like a significant number of people just love Tebow regardless of how he does and will be outraged if the Broncos decide he's not good enough and get rid of him.

Me? I'm ruthless. If Tebow does well, then great. We got us a franchise QB. If not, then peddle his ass out of town along with all the other leftover McDaniels garbage and get somebody else in here. :coffee: