Eric Berry on Tim Tebow [Archive]

T.K.O.

01-08-2011, 03:40 PM

Watch Tebow in the games he played for us at the end of the season...
he is playing safe when he can... he scoots out the sideline after getting the first down.
He is NOT lowering his head and pounding into guys for an extra yard when it is not needed.
He is making those smart plays.

And yet against the Raiders... he was not to be denied in his TD run...
he carried that last guy over the line on his back.

The dude is defintily an old school, smash mouth football player that
every opposing player I have heard interviewed holds in respect.

He is so unlike the other QB's we have been putting on the field ever since
the helicopter move Elway did into the endzone at the Super Bowl...

i agree with your view on Tebow...but "the helicopter" was for a first down.....not a touchdown.
just a note:salute:

Nomad

01-08-2011, 04:10 PM

MacGruder

01-08-2011, 04:17 PM

Peter King just said on NBC, he talked to John Elway last night and Elway said he doesn't believe Tebow is a good QB!! King believes wherever McDaniels lands (if that team needs a QB), McDaniels will try and persuade his new team to trade for Tebow!!

I saw this too.. doesn't make sense though.. wasn't someone else from Broncos management just saying they would make the same deal for Tebow McD did? I think King is either crazy or trying to make a story where there isn't one.

Nomad

01-08-2011, 04:20 PM

I saw this too.. doesn't make sense though.. wasn't someone else from Broncos management just saying they would make the same deal for Tebow McD did? I think King is either crazy or trying to make a story where there isn't one.

:whoknows:just passing on what was said!! It was on national tv, so Elway can come out and debunk what King said!

Last I heard, Elway said the next HC will have Tebow as their QB!!

Dapper Dan

01-08-2011, 04:27 PM

lgenf

01-08-2011, 05:48 PM

As for the hit, Tebow had what? 50 pounds on Berry? Tebow was running and Berry was stopped and squared up.

In my opinion, Berry owned Tebow in college. That's why it pains me to see Berry playing for the enemy.

I really hope Tebow continues to improve. He has a lot of support behind him.

Umm.... the BIG difference here being that Berry works on hitting and tackling every day in practice and Tebow wore a red jersey so owned may be a little strong, it was a great hit and both guys made comments after the game about what it was like and how they did not want to do that again.

Also, both those guys have a huge amount of respect for eachother being that they played against eachother for 3 straight years.

Dapper Dan

01-08-2011, 11:58 PM

Umm.... the BIG difference here being that Berry works on hitting and tackling every day in practice and Tebow wore a red jersey so owned may be a little strong, it was a great hit and both guys made comments after the game about what it was like and how they did not want to do that again.

Also, both those guys have a huge amount of respect for eachother being that they played against eachother for 3 straight years.

I'm not talking about owned as in the hit. I'm talking about the Ints and how Tebow struggled against Berry. Also, I never said they didn't respect each other.

Agent of Orange

01-09-2011, 12:05 AM

topscribe

01-09-2011, 12:10 AM

But it does have something to do with how awesome he is!
:elefant:

Awesome. Hmmm . . . that was a good hit, but it was a defensive back.

Let's see him do that to Urlacher. Then I will be really impressed . . .

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BeefStew25

01-09-2011, 12:12 AM

Awesome. Hmmm . . . that was a good hit, but it was a defensive back.

Let's see him do that to Urlacher. Then I will be really impressed . . .

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Let's see him avoid the giant LB hit so he can live to fight another day. That is what NFL QB's do.

topscribe

01-09-2011, 12:18 AM

Let's see him avoid the giant LB hit so he can live to fight another day. That is what NFL QB's do.

You're right . . . let's not see him do it . . .

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BeefStew25

01-09-2011, 12:19 AM

You're right . . . let's not see him do it . . .

-----

A step out of bounds or a slide is what I want. Not pulling a SUV through a summer swamp and chain ganging your mom.

My lord.

WARHORSE

01-09-2011, 12:24 AM

Let's see him avoid the giant LB hit so he can live to fight another day. That is what NFL QB's do.

No. Heres what he needs to do.

7wbO3ZOQMbQ

BeefStew25

01-09-2011, 12:27 AM

I can't handle this shit. You guys want a FB.

camdisco24

01-09-2011, 12:37 AM

Awesome. Hmmm . . . that was a good hit, but it was a defensive back.

Let's see him do that to Urlacher. Then I will be really impressed . . .

-----

Yeah I was joking, I'll be pissed if he tries to pull that stuff in the NFL too much.

Can't take every Tebow thread too seriously or you'll drive yourself crazy.

Dapper Dan

01-09-2011, 04:51 AM

Not really. Its not like Tennessee ever came close to beating Florida while Tebow was at UF.

By you're logic...Jason Campbell is better than Champ Bailey...because Oakland swept Denver this season.

I'm talking about the player match up. I watched every game. Tebow rarely threw near Berry. Berry was also in on a lot of tackles. When Tebow threw near Berry, it was picked off a few times. Once for a TD. Tennessee never had the total package to compete with Brandon Spikes, Percy Harvis, Aaron Hernandez, and all of those guys together. I'm talking about Berry Vs Tebow.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:22 AM

I'm not talking about owned as in the hit. I'm talking about the Ints and how Tebow struggled against Berry. Also, I never said they didn't respect each other.

Tebow struggled? He only had one legitimate INT on Tebow. And even that one you could have been put on the receiver, too.

If Berry was anywhere in Tebow's league he'd be playing QB as Lane Kiffin, his own coach, said.

WARHORSE

01-09-2011, 01:33 PM

I can't handle this shit. You guys want a FB.

heh heh

No.........we have a quarterback with fullback skills.

And I like it.

Tebows strength and escapability will serve the Broncos in the end.

I believe, wholeheartedly that he will become a passing QB. Maybe not in a Peyton or Brady sense of the word, but like a Steve Young, John Elway type.

His feet buy time and spread defenses.

Only, every once in a while, hes going to crush a head or two...........and that gets the team going like crazy.

Im sure he'll be judicious in who and when he does this.

But even if he doesnt become the pocket passer necessary for success in this league, he will still be the best redzone threat in the league bar none.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 01:43 PM

heh heh

No.........we have a quarterback with fullback skills.

And I like it.

Tebows strength and escapability will serve the Broncos in the end.

I believe, wholeheartedly that he will become a passing QB. Maybe not in a Peyton or Brady sense of the word, but like a Steve Young, John Elway type.

His feet buy time and spread defenses.

Only, every once in a while, hes going to crush a head or two...........and that gets the team going like crazy.

Im sure he'll be judicious in who and when he does this.

But even if he doesnt become the pocket passer necessary for success in this league, he will still be the best redzone threat in the league bar none.

This is how people got the wrong idea about Tebow... they see him run so much and so physically that they make the false assumption he can't pass. It's not true though.. Tebow could pass as well as anyone in college. If he couldn't there is no way he is able to run like he did. Same thing in the NFL. Elway says Tebow isn't a QB. If he wasn't how could a moderate speed guy like him b breaking records?

Look at it like this.. if anyone was any kind of competitor.. and they had the body Tebow does.. they would be a complete fool not to run like he does. Especially in this era where the best passer in football only has one championship - Peyton Manning. Imagine if Peyton could run like Tebow.. how many championships do you think he would have then? And look how many picks Peyton was throwing earlier this season. If you don't have the pieces around you necessary to be dominant that is what happens even to the best passer.

Dapper Dan

01-09-2011, 01:58 PM

Tebow struggled? He only had one legitimate INT on Tebow. And even that one you could have been put on the receiver, too.

If Berry was anywhere in Tebow's league he'd be playing QB as Lane Kiffin, his own coach, said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPtphc_w6fE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWij0BlWsD0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zfseYeGx9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKtWf34PulQ

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 02:20 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPtphc_w6fE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWij0BlWsD0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zfseYeGx9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKtWf34PulQ

If you watch one of those INTs the announcer says the INT was all the receivers fault. And even the second one the receiver should have broke on the ball before Berry.

Tebow went undefeated against Tennessee as well. You are deluding yourself. No question Tebow respected Berry.. he also owned him. Especially when he ran his butt over. lol

Eric Bery's own coach said Berry's impact was nowhere near Tebow's.

Ravage!!!

01-09-2011, 02:23 PM

Wow.. go figure the impact of a safety isnt' the same as a QB. Truly extraordinary.

EMB6903

01-09-2011, 02:24 PM

Whats with the "it was a defensive back who cares"

this is a Quarterback.. I'd say its a pretty fair match up.

but not only was Berry a defensive back at that time he was probably the hardest hitting safety in college and has shown to be a great player at the next level.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 02:25 PM

Wow.. go figure the impact of a safety isnt' the same as a QB. Truly extraordinary.

So why pretend Berry is anywhere near Tebow's level then? Any defender can cherry pick some elite offensive player. So why pretend it's anything more than it is..

Tebow provided a higher percentage of offense for his team than any player in college football history. Therefore Berry had plenty of opportunities to make plays on Tebow.. and Tebow completely dominated him. End of story. If highlights make you feel better good for you.. but that's all it is.

EMB6903

01-09-2011, 03:19 PM

So why pretend Berry is anywhere near Tebow's level then? Any defender can cherry pick some elite offensive player. So why pretend it's anything more than it is..

Tebow provided a higher percentage of offense for his team than any player in college football history. Therefore Berry had plenty of opportunities to make plays on Tebow.. and Tebow completely dominated him. End of story. If highlights make you feel better good for you.. but that's all it is.

Florida might have dominated Tennessee.

but never did Tebow dominate Berry.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 03:26 PM

Florida might have dominated Tennessee.

but never did Tebow dominate Berry.

That's because Berry had a whole defense focused on stopping Tebow.. of course one guy isn't going to be able to dominate 11. That Berry and his 10 teammates couldn't stop one Tebow IS domination.

Ravage!!!

01-09-2011, 03:28 PM

So why pretend Berry is anywhere near Tebow's level then? Any defender can cherry pick some elite offensive player. So why pretend it's anything more than it is..

Tebow provided a higher percentage of offense for his team than any player in college football history. Therefore Berry had plenty of opportunities to make plays on Tebow.. and Tebow completely dominated him. End of story. If highlights make you feel better good for you.. but that's all it is.

I think ou are talking to the wrong guy.

But Berry, as of right now, is a much better NFL player than Tebow is. I never made the points you are talking about.

Dapper Dan

01-09-2011, 03:55 PM

If you watch one of those INTs the announcer says the INT was all the receivers fault. And even the second one the receiver should have broke on the ball before Berry.

Tebow went undefeated against Tennessee as well. You are deluding yourself. No question Tebow respected Berry.. he also owned him. Especially when he ran his butt over. lol

Eric Bery's own coach said Berry's impact was nowhere near Tebow's.

And Tebow's own coach said Berry for Heisman.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 04:35 PM

And Tebow's own coach said Berry for Heisman.

He said he was A Heisman candidate.. not THE Heisman.. lol Big difference... HUGE difference..

Remember.. in most cases a Heisman is a team award as well. So his statement is pretty meaningless.

EMB6903

01-09-2011, 04:40 PM

He said he was A Heisman candidate.. not THE Heisman.. lol Big difference... HUGE difference..

Remember.. in most cases a Heisman is a team award as well. So his statement is pretty meaningless.

Didnt Florida lose 5 games during Tebow's hiesman season?

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 04:44 PM

Didnt Florida lose 5 games during Tebow's hiesman season?

What's your point? He carried his team more than anyone in history offensively... against the toughest defenses too.

turftoad

01-09-2011, 04:53 PM

What's your point? He carried his team more than anyone in history offensively... against the toughest defenses too.

Don't get me wrong here, I do like Tebow but that was in college.

3 games does not make an NFL career. He does have potential.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 04:59 PM

Don't get me wrong here, I do like Tebow but that was in college.

3 games does not make an NFL career. He does have potential.

The SEC is the closest you can get to the NFL in college and he dominated them as much as humanly possible. I would say that bodes very very very well. The sky is really the limit for this reason IMO. What is amazing to me is that in some way Tebow has looked just as good if not better than in college.

The key to this in my opinion is that Tebow makes the players around him in the NFL better just like he did in college.. so this is why he can transition so seamlessly. maybe more so than other players.. because his game is all about team impact not individual numbers. And really he did not have a very good team around him because he always had weak runners. He can;t have worse runners in the NFL than he did in college because there is so much parity in the NFL.

EMB6903

01-09-2011, 04:59 PM

What's your point? He carried his team more than anyone in history offensively... against the toughest defenses too.

just wondering because you said the hiesman is a team award as well.

BeefStew25

01-09-2011, 05:03 PM

The SEC is the closest you can get to the NFL in college and he dominated them as much as humanly possible. I would say that bodes very very very well. The sky is really the limit for this reason IMO. What is amazing to me is that in some way Tebow has looked just as good if not better than in college.

The key to this in my opinion is that Tebow makes the players around him in the NFL better just like he did in college.. so this is why he can transition so seamlessly. maybe more so than other players.. because his game is all about team impact not individual numbers. And really he did not have a very good team around him because he always had weak runners. He can;t have worse runners in the NFL than he did in college because there is so much parity in the NFL.

Let's sign Danny Weurffel.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:03 PM

just wondering because you said the hiesman is a team award as well.

I said "many times" the Heisman is a team award.. that Tebow won even on a losing team shows you that in his case that was no so. He didn't win because his team was dominant. That shows how special he is. I think urban Meyer's statement about Berry WAS as more of a team award because their strong tream defense which he led.

turftoad

01-09-2011, 05:06 PM

I'm not sure but, I think theres a diff between being a Denver Bronco and a Florida Gator. :confused:

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:09 PM

Let's sign Danny Weurffel.

Let's not throw around generalities.. in Wuerful's era there was nowhere near the parity there is in this era. If you assume that is why Tebow was so successful you are just fooling yourself.

I don't understand why people are such simpletons when it comes to this kind of thing. I have heard so many stupid knee jerk reactions about Tebow it is ridiculous:

-Florida Qbs are never successful
-Players that come out of Urban Meyer's system don't translate - Alex Smith
-running QBs don't translate
-Tebow looks exactly like Rex grossman, he can't be good
-Tebow is the next jamarcus Russell
-left ahnded Qbs aren't successful
-great college QBs never translate

And yet Alex Smith was a number one pick.. and Peyton Manning's NFL career has been a virtual carbon copy of his SEC career.. and Mike Vick and Vince Young were top picks..

spikerman

01-09-2011, 05:09 PM

I just can't imagine how bad Denver's record would be if they had to play against SEC teams every week.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:11 PM

I just can't imagine how bad Denver's record would be if they had to play against SEC teams every week.

And I just can't understand how any player can be successful in the NFL since they were worse than Tebow in college and Tebow can't possibly play in the NFL... how does that work?

By that logic no one could translate to the NFL.. brilliant..

spikerman

01-09-2011, 05:13 PM

And I just can't understand how any player can be successful in the NFL since they were worse than Tebow in college and Tebow can't possibly play in the NFL... how does that work?

By that logic no one could translate to the NFL.. brilliant..

It's a mystery since it sounds like in your opinion every player in college was worse that Tebow.

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 05:14 PM

And I just can't understand how any player can be successful in the NFL since they were worse than Tebow in college and Tebow can't possibly play in the NFL... how does that work?

By that logic no one could translate to the NFL.. brilliant..

Please read the following article - Finding NFL-ready QBs is tougher than ever

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2839055

Northman

01-09-2011, 05:15 PM

Let's not throw around generalities.. in Wuerful's era there was nowhere near the parity there is in this era. If you assume that is why Tebow was so successful you are just fooling yourself.

I don't understand why people are such simpletons when it comes to this kind of thing. I have heard so many stupid knee jerk reactions about Tebow it is ridiculous:

-Florida Qbs are never successful
-Players that come out of Urban Meyer's system don't translate - Alex Smith
-running QBs don't translate
-Tebow looks exactly like Rex grossman, he can't be good
-Tebow is the next jamarcus Russell
-left ahnded Qbs aren't successful
-great college QBs never translate

And yet Alex Smith was a number one pick.. and Peyton Manning's NFL career has been a virtual carbon copy of his SEC career.. and Mike Vick and Vince Young were top picks..

Only problem is 2 of the 4 are not that good. Vick is improving but you can still see the weakness in his game. Manning who is a pure passer is the only one who can be credited with real success. Now, im more than willing to give Tebow a chance since i kind of like what i see from him right now but you cant come on here and claim that he will definitely be a success. Its just too early to tell.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:25 PM

Only problem is 2 of the 4 are not that good. Vick is improving but you can still see the weakness in his game. Manning who is a pure passer is the only one who can be credited with real success.

Yeah.. but those players were assumed to be successful players.. Tebow is assumed to be a bust.. he should at least have the confidence they did.. Tebow was much better in every way in college than Vince and he was a top pick and Tebow almost fell out of the draft. Alex Smith was number one too. So all of a sudden people figured out these kinds of players don't work? it's a knee jerk reaction.

Now, im more than willing to give Tebow a chance since i kind of like what i see from him right now but you cant come on here and claim that he will definitely be a success. Its just too early to tell.

You could say the same about ANY player though.. no one is a "guaranteed" success.

But why are some players considered a slam dunk and people assume they will be dominant but no one can think that about Tebow? I might be wrong but why can't I think that like others do about any player.. like Peyton manning when he came out or Vick or Andrew Luck..

Peyton manning was always knocked because he couldn't win the big games.. Tebow did win the big games and people act like it's a negative let alone a positive.

HORSEPOWER 56

01-09-2011, 05:28 PM

And I just can't understand how any player can be successful in the NFL since they were worse than Tebow in college and Tebow can't possibly play in the NFL... how does that work?

By that logic no one could translate to the NFL.. brilliant..

So I'm gathering you're a Tebow fan. Great, I'm really excited to have him here as a Bronco fan. But understand this, dude - not one single Bronco fan will sacrifice the good of the Broncos for the good of Tim Tebow.

NO PLAYER IS > THAN THE TEAM AND THAT INCLUDES TEBOW!

If Tebow gets the start next year and he sucks it up, I'll be as much on the wagon to replace him as I am right now for him to be the starter next year.

I'm encouraged by what I've seen of Tebow and his future as my starting QB. I'm really pulling for him because I love what he does on the field and I like what I've seen from him as a person, but I was a Bronco fan before Tebow got here and I'll still be one when he's long gone.

Guys like you who've done nothing but attack Elway and the FO for not immediately bowing down to Tebow's greatness are not endearing yourselves to the Broncos faithful. While you're at it, why don't you go tell the Detroit fans that you're a Jahvid Best fan and that Barry Sanders guy ain't shit...

If there's one guy in this organization's opinion I respect above all others, it's Elway. He earned my respect over the course of 16 years. Trying to argue Tebow's case with every breath you have doesn't make it true and it doesn't make it Gospel. You're not going to win this argument, not on a Broncos board.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:34 PM

Please read the following article - Finding NFL-ready QBs is tougher than ever

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2839055

Tebo dominated the best defenses with his arm and legs. It's players like Brady Quinn and Alex Smith, Andrew Luck, Bradford, McCoy and Clausen who get overrated on teams just as talented as Florida but who play terrible defenses because of no parity outside the SEC.

Take Jamarcus Russel. he Didn't fail because he didn't have NFL talent.. he failed because he was playing for the money and went to a horrible team.

I think the real reason QBs aren't translating to the NFL so much is the very thing that makes Tebow so successful and so revolutionary.. the passing game doesn't work in the NFL.. this is WHY the league has to move to players like Tebow and Vick. But it is also the NFL's fault because they don't know how to use guys like Vick and Tebow. They want to make them pocket passers just like Elway.. and this is why the are failing. NFL coaches are not capable of adapting. People who thrive in the NFL as coaches are not cerebral or creative people.. they are guys like Mike Singletary.. what the NFL needs is guys more like Belichick.. ironically the Brconcos just fired the next best thing in McDaniels. Whihc is why McDaniels coveted Tebow so much. And he probably use Tebow half as well as Bellichick could have if he had him.

turftoad

01-09-2011, 05:35 PM

Yeah.. but those players were assumed to be successful players.. Tebow is assumed to be a bust.. he should at least have the confidence they did.. Tebow was much better in every way in college than Vince and he was a top pick and Tebow almost fell out of the draft. Alex Smith was number one too. So all of a sudden people figured out these kinds of players don't work? it's a knee jerk reaction.

You could say the same about ANY player though.. no one is a "guaranteed" success.

But why are some players considered a slam dunk and people assume they will be dominant but no one can think that about Tebow? I might be wrong but why can't I think that like others do about any player.. like Peyton manning when he came out or Vick or Andrew Luck..

Peyton manning was always knocked because he couldn't win the big games.. Tebow did win the big games and people act like it's a negative let alone a positive.

Tebow almost fell out of the draft??? Last I checked he was drafted in the first round.

And......... NO ONE???

WTH??

Why are you trying so hard to sell Tebow here?? This is a Broncos message board. We are Bronco Fans. Most of us want to see Tebow play well but know there is still work for him to do. We also know it take more than 3 pro games to make a career.

Does he have potential?? Hell yeah he does
Does he have critics?? Hell yeah he does.
Do Bronco fans want to see him do well?? Hell yeah we do.

Do you think EVERYONE is going to share your homer opinion on Tebow?? Hell no they won't.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:43 PM

If there's one guy in this organization's opinion I respect above all others, it's Elway. He earned my respect over the course of 16 years. Trying to argue Tebow's case with every breath you have doesn't make it true and it doesn't make it Gospel. You're not going to win this argument, not on a Broncos board.

Jusr remember.. I am a Tebow fan because of how great he is.. not the other way around.. You could say I am not even a fan of Tebow.. but his game. I view Tebow as a Michael Jordan type player in the NFL. I see him as a transcendent competitor and talent.

Don't jump to conclusions about Tebow fans it makes ti look like you are on some kind of with hunt.

As a "Tebow fan" I am just trying to impart what I have learned to you guys.. it could be very beneficial. He is an incredibly misunderstand talent.. It's already cost him one season.. and your tram one season because you didn't know what you had and were too afraid to even find out. And most would have knee jerked early on so it prevented McDaniels form even using him. It was this same kind of knee jerking that made people think Orton was something more than fool's gold..

turftoad

01-09-2011, 05:44 PM

Tebo dominated the best defenses with his arm and legs. It's players like Brady Quinn and Alex Smith, Andrew Luck, Bradford, McCoy and Clausen who get overrated on teams just as talented as Florida but who play terrible defenses because of no parity outside the SEC.

Take Jamarcus Russel. he Didn't fail because he didn't have NFL talent.. he failed because he was playing for the money and went to a horrible team.

I think the real reason QBs aren't translating to the NFL so much is the very thing that makes Tebow so successful and so revolutionary.. the passing game doesn't work in the NFL.. this is WHY the league has to move to players like Tebow and Vick. But it is also the NFL's fault because they don't know how to use guys like Vick and Tebow. They want to make them pocket passers just like Elway.. and this is why the are failing. NFL coaches are not capable of adapting. People who thrive in the NFL as coaches are not cerebral or creative people.. they are guys like Mike Singletary.. what the NFL needs is guys more like Belichick.. ironically the Brconcos just fired the next best thing in McDaniels. Whihc is why McDaniels coveted Tebow so much. And he probably use Tebow half as well as Bellichick could have if he had him.

This has turned into a passing league so how can you say the pass doesn't work?

And....... Elway was only a pocket passer??

Wow....... if I wasn't a mod, I'd put you on ignore. :confused:

spikerman

01-09-2011, 05:47 PM

Ok, you're really starting to hurt your credibility here.

Take Jamarcus Russel. he Didn't fail because he didn't have NFL talent.. he failed because he was playing for the money and went to a horrible team.

You're partially right. He failed because he thought talent alone would be enough. He didn't realize that EVERYBODY in the NFL has talent and he'd have to work harder than he's ever worked to be successful. Oddly enough, that's one area that Tebow stands head and shoulders above Russell

I think the real reason QBs aren't translating to the NFL so much is the very thing that makes Tebow so successful and so revolutionary.. the passing game doesn't work in the NFL You strike me as a new fan of the NFL so let me let you in on a little secret. The NFL has evolved into a passing league over the past several years. That's why teams such as the Colts, Saints, Cardinals, and Patriots have had great success over the past few years. This year the Cards didn't have a solid passing QB and how did their season turn out?
They want to make them pocket passers just like Elway This statement tells me that you didn't watch Elway play. Yes, he could throw from the pocket, but he was even more dangerous once he was flushed from the pocket. He could throw on the run and he had such a huge arm that he could still make ALL of the throws, even while scrambling.
... ironically the Brconcos just fired the next best thing in McDaniels. Whihc is why McDaniels coveted Tebow so much. And he probably use Tebow half as well as Bellichick could have if he had him. You and Josh McDaniels may be the only two left who believe the Broncos were wrong to fire him and even McDaniels may not be so sure.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 05:49 PM

This has turned into a passing league so how can you say the pass doesn't work?

And....... Elway was only a pocket passer??

Wow....... if I wasn't a mod, I'd put you on ignore. :confused:

Dude, he's WAY too entertaining to put on ignore.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:51 PM

Tebow almost fell out of the draft??? Last I checked he was drafted in the first round.

Did you watch the Tebow documentary? It took a Herculean effort to get picked in the bottom of the first round. Guys like Kiper and McSahy were saying he was a 4th or 5th round pick and wasn't even a QB.. but a tight end etc.

Why are you trying so hard to sell Tebow here?? This is a Broncos message board. We are Bronco Fans. Most of us want to see Tebow play well but know there is still work for him to do. We also know it take more than 3 pro games to make a career.

I realize that but people are so afraid of predicting any kind of success or ability from Tebow.. it's bizzare. Yet some nobody like Andrew Luck or Jake Locker is made out to be a world beater.. people were tyrign to draft him over Tebow here recently.. it's nuts.

Does he have potential?? Hell yeah he does
Does he have critics?? Hell yeah he does.
Do Bronco fans want to see him do well?? Hell yeah we do.

Do you think EVERYONE is going to share your homer opinion on Tebow?? Hell no they won't.

How can it be a homer opinion when I was not a Florida fan? Again.. you are making assumptions that ware just silly.

Yes.. I guess I am just a silly homer to expect homer NFL fans who get all their information from people who haven't even watched Tebow play and said he didn't even have an NFL arm to listen to someone that actually knows what they are talking about and saw how great he was from day one because they actually had an open mind.. Hell no.. that'd be crazy..

No.. you guys have to see it to understand it.. because no one else can possibly know more than you guys.. especially someone who isn't a Bronco homer..

turftoad

01-09-2011, 05:54 PM

Did you watch the Tebow documentary? It took a Herculean effort to get picked in the bottom of the first round. Guys like Kiper and McSahy were saying he was a 4th or 5th round pick and wasn't even a QB.. but a tight end etc.

I realize that but people are so afraid of predicting any kind of success or ability from Tebow.. it's bizzare. Yet some nobody like Andrew Luck or Jake Locker is made out to be a world beater.. people were tyrign to draft him over Tebow here recently.. it's nuts.

How can it be a homer opinion when I was not a Florida fan? Again.. you are making assumptions that ware just silly.

Yes.. I guess I am just a silly homer to expect homer NFL fans who get all their information from people who haven't even watched Tebow play and said he didn't even have an NFL arm to listen to someone that actually knows what they are talking about and saw how great he was from day one because they actually had an open mind.. Hell no.. that'd be crazy..

No.. you guys have to see it to understand it.. because no one else can possibly know more than you guys.. especially someone who isn't a Bronco homer..

This pretty much says it all.

Only a Tebow fan, I see. Great..................... another one. :tsk:

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 05:55 PM

This has turned into a passing league so how can you say the pass doesn't work?

So why are there no dominant pocket passers in this league? Why does the best pocket passer Peyton manning only have one championship? Brady won his champs when his team D was dominant..

And....... Elway was only a pocket passer??

I didn't say he was ONLY a pocket passer.. but relative to guys like Tebow and Vick he is more of a pocket passer.. especially later in his career when he won championships. In a different era mind you..

Tebow is breaking his running records in his first 3 games in a far more athletic era.

Wow....... if I wasn't a mod, I'd put you on ignore. :confused:

Look who's talking.. a mod misrepresenting what I am saying to make their argument.. and you are talking about ignoring me?

Northman

01-09-2011, 05:56 PM

Yeah.. but those players were assumed to be successful players..

All players who come into the draft are expected to succeed. Thats why they are the creme of the crop.

Tebow is assumed to be a bust.. he should at least have the confidence they did..

I dont know if he was assumed to be a bust but they did feel he needed more work than the pure passers. The fact that Tebow went to the senior bowl and played badly didnt help his stock any. When commentators and the such speak on Qb's coming out of college its not just based on how th team performed on the field. He look much deeper into the player themselves which is what your supposed to do. If they based everything off of championships alone that wouldnt work very well.

Tebow was much better in every way in college than Vince and he was a top pick and Tebow almost fell out of the draft.

Maybe when all is said and done it may be that way but to this day Young's performance in that championship against USC was the best individual performance ive ever seen a college QB make.

Alex Smith was number one too. So all of a sudden people figured out these kinds of players don't work? it's a knee jerk reaction.

Im not sure i understand your point here. What do you mean by these kinds of players?

You could say the same about ANY player though.. no one is a "guaranteed" success.

Exactly, so why does Tebow need to be an exception?

But why are some players considered a slam dunk and people assume they will be dominant but no one can think that about Tebow?

Because there is something about Tebow's mechanics as a QB that brings some question. Does it mean he wont be? Nope. But thats how it goes when a player comes into the NFL. No one thought Tom Brady would become what he did and sometimes those surprises happen. On the flipside you can be like Akili Smith or Joey Harrington and totally suck.

It also depends on how many other Qb's come out with those guys. This year is littered with QB's with potential but aside from Luck there wasnt ay that impressed the media or commentators near as much.

I might be wrong but why can't I think that like others do about any player.. like Peyton manning when he came out or Vick or Andrew Luck..

What do you mean? Think that they would be horrible? I dont see a problem with you believing that. I dont think Luck is a definite shoe in for success either thats why i like to wait and see. I see players i think will be good but its always a wait and see in the end.

Peyton manning was always knocked because he couldn't win the big games.. Tebow did win the big games and people act like it's a negative let alone a positive.

I havent seen anyone say its a negative that he won big games. But Manning did have a problem in college and early in his NFL career winning those big games. Elway had that stigma for a long time in Denver until both he and Manning got that monkey off their back.

At the end of the day i think the biggest problem for Tebow is his passing. Now, some commentators commented on that both before and after the senor bowl that he was holding it too low. Tebow took it seriously enough to begin working on it and ironically enough at his pro day his stock rose after they saw the progress he made.

But im sure Elway saw the same thing that Clay, Rav, and Turf all saw. The difference for me is i look at it as something he needs to work on but also understand that he didnt take many snaps this year and it was only 3 games. Once we see him play a full year we will get a better idea where we stand with Tebow. But its not a bad thing to have doubt about his abilities. Some people take it far too personal or try and claim your not supporting said player which i always find bogus.

At the end of the day i hope Tebow proves everyone wrong because that will mean we are set at QB and concentrate on the defensive side of the ball for once.

Northman

01-09-2011, 06:00 PM

spikerman

01-09-2011, 06:04 PM

So why are there no dominant pocket passers in this league? Why does the best pocket passer Peyton manning only have one championship? Brady won his champs when his team D was dominant..
There are no dominant passers in this league? Really? That's the position you want to take?

I didn't say he was ONLY a pocket passer.. but relative to guys like Tebow and Vick he is more of a pocket passer.. especially later in his career when he won championships. In a different era mind you..

Tebow is breaking his running records in his first 3 games in a far more athletic era.
Elway usually didn't scramble to run, though he could if he wanted to, he scrambled to buy time in order to unleash his rocket right arm. Tell me honestly, have you ever seen Elway play?

Tebow didn't break Elway's record. He broke Bubby Brister's. Again, Elway didn't look to run all the time. He knew his arm was golden and that was what teams were afraid of.

Do yourself a favor... stop comparing Tebow to Elway. Tim Tebow is no John Elway and the odds are very great that he never will be. That doesn't mean he can't be successful, but John Elways are VERY rare.

HORSEPOWER 56

01-09-2011, 06:06 PM

How can it be a homer opinion when I was not a Florida fan? Again.. you are making assumptions that ware just silly.

Yes.. I guess I am just a silly homer to expect homer NFL fans who get all their information from people who haven't even watched Tebow play and said he didn't even have an NFL arm to listen to someone that actually knows what they are talking about and saw how great he was from day one because they actually had an open mind.. Hell no.. that'd be crazy..

No.. you guys have to see it to understand it.. because no one else can possibly know more than you guys.. especially someone who isn't a Bronco homer..

Actually bro, every Bronco fan has seen Tebow play, now. 3 games isn't enough to say, good or bad, how this guy will turn out in the long term but it is enough to have an opinion. Some folks, such as myself, liked what they saw. Others didn't.

At this point NOBODY is right or wrong. Tebow came out and played well, IMO - but it's not like he set the world on fire and proved that he's on a Brady/Manning level, yet. That is yet to be seen.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 06:08 PM

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 06:08 PM

You're partially right. He failed because he thought talent alone would be enough. He didn't realize that EVERYBODY in the NFL has talent and he'd have to work harder than he's ever worked to be successful. Oddly enough, that's one area that Tebow stands head and shoulders above Russell

I don't even think he had to work harder.. just work a much as he did before. Seemed like he got to the NFL and just acted like he was retired.. the opposite of playing for a contract. Plus.. being on a such a horrible team probably exacerbated it.

You strike me as a new fan of the NFL so let me let you in on a little secret. The NFL has evolved into a passing league over the past several years. That's why teams such as the Colts, Saints, Cardinals, and Patriots have had great success over the past few years. This year the Cards didn't have a solid passing QB and how did their season turn out?

You are partially right but not in the way ou think.. offenses have gotten more successful and prolific.. but pocket passers in general have goten less domiant. As I said before.. there are no dominant pocket passers. There are no multiple championship winners because of the parity team to team and because defenses are so atheltic now pure passers like Peyton are wasted in this era. Qbs are gettinf injured at an unprecedented rate even with refs trying to protect them so much. What does that tell you? The NFl is trying to maintain a system that doesn't work in this era. The only guys that can really protect Qbs is Bellichick.. because he is a genius. This si why guys built like Tebow and Garrard aren't just a luxury. they are a necessity. Sam Bradford couldn't even stay healthy in college and he wasn't touched but a couple times because of his incredible Oline.

This statement tells me that you didn't watch Elway play. Yes, he could throw from the pocket, but he was even more dangerous once he was flushed from the pocket. He could throw on the run and he had such a huge arm that he could still make ALL of the throws, even while scrambling.

I just meant form that era.. you guys are making knee jerk reactions. Most QBs in Elways era were pocket passer primarily.. that's all i meant..

You and Josh McDaniels may be the only two left who believe the Broncos were wrong to fire him and even McDaniels may not be so sure.

Why did McD take all the blame because Marshall and Cutler were complete boneheads. You are lucky McD even came to your team with these guys... You think Bellichick would have kept them? McD was juts doing what Belli would have done.. you guys paid for it in the early term but would have benefited in the long run. But homer fans are so impatient in this era... everyone wants to win instantly.. like playing Orton over Tebow.. then they blame McD for their own choice in wanting Orton and then demand Tebow come in and play in the mess the fans created.. it's ridiculous. I think people need to realize there is such a thing as a cancerous fanbase as there is cancerous players etc. It's like a mindless destructive force.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 06:12 PM

Actually McShay predicted him in the 3rd, not 4th or 5th.

McShay predicted him as a 3rd rounder AFTER Tebow blew him away at his pro day becaus ehe worked his ass off like no one else... and he acted reluctant to even say 3rd round.

And mind you.. Holmgren said he didn't even know if Tebow needed to change his motion in the first place. Tebow had the same motion as Favre and Holmgren coached far so likely knew it.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 06:17 PM

Actually bro, every Bronco fan has seen Tebow play, now. 3 games isn't enough to say, good or bad, how this guy will turn out in the long term but it is enough to have an opinion. Some folks, such as myself, liked what they saw. Others didn't.

At this point NOBODY is right or wrong. Tebow came out and played well, IMO - but it's not like he set the world on fire and proved that he's on a Brady/Manning level, yet. That is yet to be seen.

So because YOU don't know no one could know?

Do you think the greatest talent evaluator ever could know? Do you think Steve Young knows.. considering he said Tebow should revolutionize the NFL and said we are witnessing greatness?

I don't think you understand what talent is.. or how it works.. what you are saying is like saying no one should have known Jordan would be as good as he was or that no one could know that Peyton Manning would be as good as he is.

I think you should be able to watch his college play and know.. if you got it you got it.. of course nothing is guaranteed. You need coaches and players to get results.. but from what I have seen he clearly has the talent to do it id all the pieces are there.

If Vince Young could play as well as he did and he was nowhere near the player Tebow is I don't see how Tebow cannot be successful.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 06:20 PM

I don't even think he had to work harder.. just work a much as he did before. Seemed like he got to the NFL and just acted like he was retired.. the opposite of playing for a contract. Plus.. being on a such a horrible team probably exacerbated it. You would be hard pressed to find an NFL player who didn't claim to have to work even harder to succeed in the NFL. The level of the college game cannot compare to the NFL. It simply can't.

You are partially right but not in the way ou think.. offenses have gotten more successful and prolific.. but pocket passers in general have goten less domiant. As I said before.. there are no dominant pocket passers. There are no multiple championship winners because of the parity team to team and because defenses are so atheltic now pure passers like Peyton are wasted in this era. Qbs are gettinf injured at an unprecedented rate even with refs trying to protect them so much. What does that tell you? The NFl is trying to maintain a system that doesn't work in this era. The only guys that can really protect Qbs is Bellichick.. because he is a genius. This si why guys built like Tebow and Garrard aren't just a luxury. they are a necessity. Sam Bradford couldn't even stay healthy in college and he wasn't touched but a couple times because of his incredible Oline. Please take a look at this site and tell me how many of the top QBs from this year are NOT pocket passers .... http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/bycategory?cat=Passing&sort=4&conference=NFL . By the way, Sam Bradford took every snap for the Rams this year and he will be the RoY.

Why did McD take all the blame because Marshall and Cutler were complete boneheads. You are lucky McD even came to your team with these guys... You think Bellichick would have kept them? McD was juts doing what Belli would have done.. you guys paid for it in the early term but would have benefited in the long run. But homer fans are so impatient in this era... everyone wants to win instantly.. like playing Orton over Tebow.. then they blame McD for their own choice in wanting Orton and then demand Tebow come in and play in the mess the fans created.. it's ridiculous. I think people need to realize there is such a thing as a cancerous fanbase as there is cancerous players etc. It's like a mindless destructive force.

Funny, as a Broncos' fan I don't feel lucky that McDaniels was here. Since you probably didn't know anything about the Broncos before Tebow was drafted you can look it up and see that Denver was much more talented (especially on offense) when he got here than they were when he left.

The Broncos don't have a cancerous fanbase. They have a passionate fanbase that cares about the success of the team, not just one player. I'm sorry that you don't seem to be able to tell the difference.

Northman

01-09-2011, 06:21 PM

McShay predicted him as a 3rd rounder AFTER Tebow blew him away at his pro day becaus ehe worked his ass off like no one else... and he acted reluctant to even say 3rd round.

And mind you.. Holmgren said he didn't even know if Tebow needed to change his motion in the first place. Tebow had the same motion as Favre and Holmgren coached far so likely knew it.

Unfortuantely, the major difference was that Favre was a pocket passer with scrambling ability. But also, because Favre holds the ball so low it leads to a lot of fumbles which has plagued him in his career. I think John would like to see Tebow correct that so that he isnt plagued by that his entire career also. Right now, Tebow still thinks like a run first QB much like Vick did early in his career. He needs to get out of that thought process and only use his scrambling ability when all else breaks down. Hopefully he will improve but its too early to tell yet.

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 06:22 PM

So because YOU don't know no one could know?

Do you think the greatest talent evaluator ever could know? Do you think Steve Young knows.. considering he said Tebow should revolutionize the NFL and said we are witnessing greatness?

I don't think you understand what talent is.. or how it works.. what you are saying is like saying no one should have known Jordan would be as good as he was or that no one could know that Peyton Manning would be as good as he is.

I think you should be able to watch his college play and know.. if you got it you got it.. of course nothing is guaranteed. You need coaches and players to get results.. but from what I have seen he clearly has the talent to do it id all the pieces are there.

If Vince Young could play as well as he did and he was nowhere near the player Tebow is I don't see how Tebow cannot be successful.

OK - we got it - now - anything you would like to say about any other players on the Broncos - any ideas who the Broncos should keep, any ideas on who the next HC should be, etc.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 06:23 PM

There are no dominant passers in this league? Really? That's the position you want to take?

Not like there were in past eras. Again.. not because they aren't talented.. it's because defenses are so much more athletic and there is so much more parity now. In the past offenses had the edge in many ways which allowed a great pure passer to prosper. This era is different. Elway may be even better in this era than his era for this reason. and Tebow may be ideally suited.. I am convinced he is.. which is why he was so dominant in college.

Elway usually didn't scramble to run, though he could if he wanted to, he scrambled to buy time in order to unleash his rocket right arm. Tell me honestly, have you ever seen Elway play?

absolutely.. I am not questioning Elway's greatness.. I think Elway was built perfectly for his era. Tebow is bult perfectly for his era too IMO. But what makes Tebow so special is how ahead of his time he is.. Tebow is built perfectly or his era.. and no on else is. I think other guys are going to have to try to play like him to match him and THEY are going to get killed.

The familiar refrain in response to this is that Tebow can't stay healthy playing like he does.. but playing in the pocket is no safer in this era. That is the whole issue. Even Elway could not stay healthy n this era behind the line of scrimamge.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 06:24 PM

OK - we got it - now - anything you would like to say about any other players on the Broncos - any ideas who the Broncos should keep, any ideas on who the next HC should be, etc.

With Tebow they don't need any other players. :)

Northman

01-09-2011, 06:24 PM

If Vince Young could play as well as he did and he was nowhere near the player Tebow is I don't see how Tebow cannot be successful.

And thats your opinion but not everyone will share that.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 06:29 PM

OK - we got it - now - anything you would like to say about any other players on the Broncos - any ideas who the Broncos should keep, any ideas on who the next HC should be, etc.

Do I have to do it all? lol Jk

If you are going to use a player like Tebow.. so unique.. then you have t get a coach that can get the best out of him.. if not then move Tebow and figure out what direction you want to go.

I think if the Broncos are going to rely on Elway to make decisions it may be best to move Tebow. I don't say that as a "Tebow fan".. but just as common sense. I think Elway may be able to get the best out of another type of QB.

If that is the case it may be best to get a defensive coach now than Elway could be more hands on with the QB.

But everything is so up in the air it is hard to know where to start until you make these kinds of basic decisions. It determines your entire agenda for the team.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 06:31 PM

Unfortuantely, the major difference was that Favre was a pocket passer with scrambling ability. But also, because Favre holds the ball so low it leads to a lot of fumbles which has plagued him in his career. I think John would like to see Tebow correct that so that he isnt plagued by that his entire career also. Right now, Tebow still thinks like a run first QB much like Vick did early in his career. He needs to get out of that thought process and only use his scrambling ability when all else breaks down. Hopefully he will improve but its too early to tell yet.

I think it is a mistake for people like us to tell Tebow how he should play... it's like some art students or fans telling Picasso how he isn't painting vases realistically enough.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 06:32 PM

With Tebow they don't need any other players. :)

All truth goes through three phases...

1st it is ridiculed.

2nd it is violently opposed

3rd it is accepted as self evident.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 06:36 PM

All truth goes through three phases...

1st it is ridiculed.

2nd it is violently opposed

3rd it is accepted as self evident.

I can't think of a response that wouldn't seem personal so I'll refrain, but if you're not the president of the TT fan club you should submit your resume.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 06:37 PM

I think it is a mistake for people like us to tell Tebow how he should play... it's like some art students or fans telling Picasso how he isn't painting vases realistically enough.

oh brother. :rolleyes:

Northman

01-09-2011, 06:38 PM

I think it is a mistake for people like us to tell Tebow how he should play... it's like some art students or fans telling Picasso how he isn't painting vases realistically enough.

Possibly. And some coaches would agree with you like Holmgren. Unfortuantely, because the NFL is different from college there will be those who want to try and help him succeed at the pro level. I mean, that cant be a bad thing can it? If Tebow were to play exactly like he did in college without trying to improve on things that most believe to be imperfections and failed who would you blame? For me personally? Im glad that Tebow is smart enough to listen to those who are more in the know than he is when it comes to playing at this level. If he came in hard headed and ignorant he would fail miserably in my opinion. Any Qb or player that comes into the league should want to do anything that could improve their game.

Agent of Orange

01-09-2011, 06:43 PM

Didnt Florida lose 5 games during Tebow's hiesman season?

Yeah, and they also crushed Tennessee that year in Tennessee. What's your point? During that year, Florida had to replace every starter on defense from their 06 NC team and their defensive line was all freshmen and sophomores.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 06:51 PM

You would be hard pressed to find an NFL player who didn't claim to have to work even harder to succeed in the NFL. The level of the college game cannot compare to the NFL. It simply can't.

Like I said though.. I think Jamarcus was juts playing for a contract.. so he was a guy who probably worked as hard as Tebow just to get his contract then acted like he won the lotto. That is the impression I get. and he had talent to burn. Put Tebow's heart in him and you actually get Elway 3.0.

Please take a look at this site and tell me how many of the top QBs from this year are NOT pocket passers .... http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/by...conference=NFL . By the way, Sam Bradford took every snap for the Rams this year and he will be the RoY.

But see.. you aren't realizing what I am trying to get across..

1. there aren't any players that have the physical tools to do what Tebow and Vick do.

2. NFL teams do not realize this is the way QBs should be playing. They are stuck in the past. They think running your QB is less safe.. when in reality it is more safe and makes your QB safer when in the pocket. NFL teams coaches are just stuck in the past. it's that simple. Bellichick and Brady are the only guys that can do it. And yes Bradford did as well this season as Orton last season... but can he ever do more? I don;'t think he will. I think HE is a system QB. I don't think Brady's system will fly in the playoffs well either.

Funny, as a Broncos' fan I don't feel lucky that McDaniels was here. Since you probably didn't know anything about the Broncos before Tebow was drafted you can look it up and see that Denver was much more talented (especially on offense) when he got here than they were when he left.

Do the Patriots look talented? They lost Moss and got BETTER. That is the same system McD was putting in.. how can fans not see this. And McD got rid of BMarsh and Cutler for the same reason Belli dumped Moss.. and it would have worked for the same reason.

The Broncos don't have a cancerous fanbase. They have a passionate fanbase that cares about the success of the team, not just one player. I'm sorry that you don't seem to be able to tell the difference.

They have a fanbase that thinks they understand the game and what is successful more than the coaches.. and then when the thing crashes because of the pressure they put on they blame the coach. McD was the one carrying Orton and Orton was praised and McD was trashed.. made no sense..

Northman

01-09-2011, 07:02 PM

2. NFL teams do not realize this is the way QBs should be playing. They are stuck in the past. They think running your QB is less safe.. when in reality it is more safe and makes your QB safer when in the pocket. NFL teams coaches are just stuck in the past. it's that simple. Bellichick and Brady are the only guys that can do it. And yes Bradford did as well this season as Orton last season... but can he ever do more? I don;'t think he will. I think HE is a system QB. I don't think Brady's system will fly in the playoffs well either.

Holy smoke, dude what planet are you on? There hasnt been a run first Qb to even make the SB yet. Brady, the Mannings, Big Ben are pocket passers who have won the last few Super Bowls. If your theory was even remotely close to being true guys like Vick and Young would be dominating the league and getting to SB's.

They have a fanbase that thinks they understand the game and what is successful more than the coaches..

Yet your now on record as saying that the NFL doesnt know what its doing and are stuck in the past. Thats priceless. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

and then when the thing crashes because of the pressure they put on they blame the coach. McD was the one carrying Orton and Orton was praised and McD was trashed.. made no sense..

McD's system did help Orton but unlike the system that BB put in place in NE we couldnt score. Stats are pretty, but points and winning are much better. McD failed at both.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 07:02 PM

But see.. you aren't realizing what I am trying to get across..

1. there aren't any players that have the physical tools to do what Tebow and Vick do.

2. NFL teams do not realize this is the way QBs should be playing. They are stuck in the past. They think running your QB is less safe.. when in reality it is more safe and makes your QB safer when in the pocket. NFL teams coaches are just stuck in the past. it's that simple. Bellichick and Brady are the only guys that can do it. And yes Bradford did as well this season as Orton last season... but can he ever do more? I don;'t think he will. I think HE is a system QB. I don't think Brady's system will fly in the playoffs well either.
Teams are winning with players who play different than Vick or Tebow. Tebow is 1-2 as a starter and while Vick is in the playoffs, there is a good chance that he doesn't make it past this round. These "pocket passers" and "system QBs" as you call them win and that's why you see so many of them. Vince Young, Michael Vick, and David Garrard have combined to win zero championships so maybe they aren't the best way to win.

I'm confused. You say Brady and Bellichik are the only two that can pull it off, but then later on you say that Brady is a system guy and you "don't think Brady's system will fly in the playoffs well either." Was that a typo? If not, which is it?

Do the Patriots look talented? They lost Moss and got BETTER. That is the same system McD was putting in.. how can fans not see this. And McD got rid of BMarsh and Cutler for the same reason Belli dumped Moss.. and it would have worked for the same reason.

They have a fanbase that thinks they understand the game and what is successful more than the coaches.. and then when the thing crashes because of the pressure they put on they blame the coach. McD was the one carrying Orton and Orton was praised and McD was trashed.. made no sense.. Denver won 9 games in two years under McDaniels. Just as Tebow is no Elway, McDaniels is no Billy B.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 07:03 PM

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 07:07 PM

Possibly. And some coaches would agree with you like Holmgren. Unfortuantely, because the NFL is different from college there will be those who want to try and help him succeed at the pro level. I mean, that cant be a bad thing can it?

All I know is that people said Tebow couldn't play his style in the SEC because he couldn't pass well enough and was too slow and would get killed.. and he dominated like never before. If he had listened to them we all would have missed out on maybe the greatest college career ever.

If Tebow were to play exactly like he did in college without trying to improve on things that most believe to be imperfections and failed who would you blame?

I think we should all just keep an open mind.. he can keep certain things in mind.. but let him find his own game.. hey.. what if he got better with the NFL.. what if he hadn't even come close to his potential in different areas? I think you should shoot for the stars.. not assume something won;t work. But you also don't want to screw someones career up trying to make them someone they aren't.. espceially when we don't even know what is possible.

But this is why you need wise people that may have those answers. I don't know if Elway is that guy.. I think you need someone REALLY old school.. that understood the single wing etc. Bellichick is that kind of historian.

For me personally? Im glad that Tebow is smart enough to listen to those who are more in the know than he is when it comes to playing at this level. If he came in hard headed and ignorant he would fail miserably in my opinion. Any Qb or player that comes into the league should want to do anything that could improve their game.
___________

It's great Tebow is willing to adapt.. but as fans and coaches etc.. we need to be willing to adapt too.. and consider all the possibilities.. and especially KNOW what we are talking about before we make determinations. As someone that watched Tebow's whole career and predicted his success the entire time I wish some people could try to see what i see.. because I think everyone is missing out.

What is amazing though is I don't think many thought Tebow would be more successful than me and at times I have been blown away by what Tebow has done in the NFL under the worst conditions and so soon.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 07:16 PM

Holy smoke, dude what planet are you on? There hasnt been a run first Qb to even make the SB yet. Brady, the Mannings, Big Ben are pocket passers who have won the last few Super Bowls. If your theory was even remotely close to being true guys like Vick and Young would be dominating the league and getting to SB's.

BigBen is not to far off Tebow.. his coach even said he was trying to play like Tebow in a playoff game.. so your argument is pretty silly. Ben is no Tebow either.

But you have 2 things though.. there are only a couple running QBs being used.. which reduces there odds dramatically.. AND teams are not using them effectively. They are taking running QBs and trying to force them into pocket passing systems instead of adapting systems to the players. You see Elway trying to do the same with Tebow.. probably because he doesn't know anything else. He doesn't want to run McD's system because he probably doesn't really understand it and doesn't believe it will work.

Yet your now on record as saying that the NFL doesnt know what its doing and are stuck in the past. Thats priceless.

You really think all these ex players are innovative out of the box thinkers? Part of it is the refs are trying to change the rules to make an outmoded system work.. and only the best pocket passers get these benefits as well. That also prevents you from using players like Vick and Young and Tebow who should be more successful if they got these same benefits.

McD's system did help Orton but unlike the system that BB put in place in NE we couldnt score. Stats are pretty, but points and winning are much better. McD failed

That's because Orton suck and McD needed time.. he had to jettison some boneheads other guys wouldn't even have come to Denver to coach and how do you repay him.. look at what Tebow did in the same system without a coach even.. Imagine what tebow could have done if he was there all season WITH McD using him to maximum effect.

turftoad

01-09-2011, 07:18 PM

What is amazing though is I don't think many thought Tebow would be more successful than me and at times I have been blown away by what Tebow has done in the NFL under the worst conditions and so soon.

How does this not suprise me after three games. :tsk:

Northman

01-09-2011, 07:31 PM

BigBen is not to far off Tebow..

Uh, yes he is. He has scrambling ability but Ben is a pocket passer.

Ben is no Tebow either.

No, he's a 2 time NFL Champion which is far better than Tebow. Not speculation, just fact. Until Tebow gets a pair of rings he cant hold Ben's jock.

But you have 2 things though.. there are only a couple running QBs being used.. which reduces there odds dramatically.. AND teams are not using them effectively. They are taking running QBs and trying to force them into pocket passing systems instead of adapting systems to the players.

Emm nope, your incorrect. When Vick came into the league Reeves wanted to let Vick "just be Vick" and while he had some success in the function he ultimately failed because his accuracy was terrible. This is why you see Vick's game elevating under the Eagles like it has. Vick took the time to adapt his game and improve as a PASS first QB and has become a better all around QB.

You see Elway trying to do the same with Tebow.. probably because he doesn't know anything else. He doesn't want to run McD's system because he probably doesn't really understand it and doesn't believe it will work.

McDaniels system doesnt work, BB's does which involves a pocket passing QB.

You really think all these ex players are innovative out of the box thinkers? Part of it is the refs are trying to change the rules to make an outmoded system work.. and only the best pocket passers get these benefits as well. That also prevents you from using players like Vick and Young and Tebow who should be more successful if they got these same benefits.

They do get the same benefits, their QB's. Not sure where your going with this.

That's because Orton suck and McD needed time.. he had to jettison some boneheads other guys wouldn't even have come to Denver to coach and how do you repay him.. look at what Tebow did in the same system without a coach even.. Imagine what tebow could have done if he was there all season WITH McD using him to maximum effect.

Orton is average no doubt about that. But McD failed because he was in over his head. Peyton Hillis wasnt a headcase yet McD jettisoned him also so that theory of yours is silly. It would of been nice to see Tebow since the bye week but (wait for it) that same coach that you stand behind felt Orton was the better choice and Tebow wasnt ready. No one else was to blame for Tebow not getting the start.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 07:31 PM

How does this not suprise me after three games. :tsk:

Because you don't understand what talent is or the implications of it.

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 07:34 PM

MacGruder - do yourself a favor - watch the video that top posted on Elway - showing him in high school, college, and with the Broncos. Oh - you Bronco fans will also enjoy it: ;)

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1182810&postcount=207

Northman

01-09-2011, 07:36 PM

turftoad

01-09-2011, 07:37 PM

Because you don't understand what talent is or the implications of it.

I watched Elway play his WHOLE career. I think I've seen plenty of taltent. :salute:

Agent of Orange

01-09-2011, 07:39 PM

Like I said though.. I think Jamarcus was juts playing for a contract.. so he was a guy who probably worked as hard as Tebow just to get his contract then acted like he won the lotto. That is the impression I get. and he had talent to burn. Put Tebow's heart in him and you actually get Elway 3.0.

But see.. you aren't realizing what I am trying to get across..

1. there aren't any players that have the physical tools to do what Tebow and Vick do.

2. NFL teams do not realize this is the way QBs should be playing. They are stuck in the past. They think running your QB is less safe.. when in reality it is more safe and makes your QB safer when in the pocket. NFL teams coaches are just stuck in the past. it's that simple. Bellichick and Brady are the only guys that can do it. And yes Bradford did as well this season as Orton last season... but can he ever do more? I don;'t think he will. I think HE is a system QB. I don't think Brady's system will fly in the playoffs well either.

Do the Patriots look talented? They lost Moss and got BETTER. That is the same system McD was putting in.. how can fans not see this. And McD got rid of BMarsh and Cutler for the same reason Belli dumped Moss.. and it would have worked for the same reason.

They have a fanbase that thinks they understand the game and what is successful more than the coaches.. and then when the thing crashes because of the pressure they put on they blame the coach. McD was the one carrying Orton and Orton was praised and McD was trashed.. made no sense..

I agree with you on Tebow but when it comes to McDaniels, our paths diverge. I don't feel lucky McDaniels was here. I guess if anything I feel someone owes us for all he did. I feel god sent us his only son to make up for what McDaniels did. Just kidding...kind of.

Northman

01-09-2011, 07:42 PM

There you go Mac, Vick just threw a game ending INT. Pocker passer wins the day again.

GEM

01-09-2011, 07:46 PM

Bejeezus....why does it have to be one or the other? Why does everyone feel the need to force everyone to feel the way they do? I mean....geez.

Northman

01-09-2011, 07:47 PM

Bejeezus....why does it have to be one or the other? Why does everyone feel the need to force everyone to feel the way they do? I mean....geez.

Must be the water in Florida.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 07:48 PM

There you go Mac, Vick just threw a game ending INT. Pocker passer wins the day again.

That's cheap dude.. the guy just got out of prison and you are knocking him for not winning the superbowl. lol

This is what is wrong with NFL fans.. they are so ultra conservative.. it's comical. If something isn't an overwhelming success immediately out of the gates they think it can't work.

You don't even consider the Eagles lack of D.. and Vick still dominated with them. Packers have great D that are savage against any QB.

Oh.. and let's not forget.. Rodger's is pretty athletic too. But he's no Tebow either. Neither is Vick IMO.. and I think Vick has been injured anyway. And guess where he got injured-- in the pocket.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 07:50 PM

That's cheap dude.. the guy just got out of prison and you are knocking him for not winning the superbowl. lol

This is what is wrong with NFL fans.. they are so ultra conservative.. it's comical. If something isn't an overwhelming success immediately out of the gates they think it can't work.

You don't even consider the Eagles lack of D.. and Vick still dominated with them. Packers have great D that are savage against any QB.

Oh.. and let's not forget.. Rodger's is pretty athletic too. But he's no Tebow either. Neither is Vick IMO.. and I think Vick has been injured anyway. And guess where he got injured-- in the pocket.

I like Tebow, but damn Mac, you're almost making me hope he gets traded.

KCL

01-09-2011, 07:53 PM

Like I posted in the KC game day thread...Berry is good and IMO will someday be as good as Troy Polamalu.He had a great first year playing in the NFL.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 07:54 PM

Well, this is where i definitely agree with Claymore. When you have these overly fanatical fans it makes it real easy to hate Tebow which is unfortuante for the kid. If people could just be more objective when it came to players all things would be grand in the world.

So someone that knows more than you about Tebow is fanatical?

I think the problem is some people can't stand someone knowing more about there new player than they do. You refuse to even accept the possibility of what I am saying.. and act as if I am loony to think it or express a different opinion than you.

How does that give you a reason to hate Tebow? The fact you would even say or think that shows the real issue. Someone can't "make" a rational person do something they know is wrong...

You assume that because I think Tebow is great I am fanatical.. instead of actually considering the possibility he is great.. simply because so many idiots say he can't be. The same idiots that said Jamarcus Russel was going to be the next Elway...

spikerman

01-09-2011, 07:54 PM

Like I posted in the KC game day thread...Berry is good and IMO will someday be as good as Troy Polamalu.He had a great first year playing in the NFL.

I'm not sure he'll ever be as good as Polamalu, but he is VERY good. Congrats on a great year KCL!!!!!

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 07:54 PM

i can't wait to see i eat staples response to this thread.

Sorry to keep you waiting but what am I supposed to say? I believe BeefStew had the best post back on the first page. Says what I feel.

KCL

01-09-2011, 07:55 PM

I like Tebow, but damn Mac, you're almost making me hope he gets traded.

I knew someone was going to post this...:lol: I don't know much about
Tebow but everyone has yet to see what kind of NFL QB he will be.Wait til he gets the start in every game and goes up against some of the best defenses.
Time will tell what kind of impact he will make.

Northman

01-09-2011, 07:55 PM

That's cheap dude.. the guy just got out of prison and you are knocking him for not winning the superbowl. lol

He didnt just get out of prison, he's been playing most of the year. :lol:

This is what is wrong with NFL fans.. they are so ultra conservative.. it's comical. If something isn't an overwhelming success immediately out of the gates they think it can't work.

Although Vick's game has improved since adapting to a more pocket styled QB who utilizes is run when he needs too.

You don't even consider the Eagles lack of D.. and Vick still dominated with them. Packers have great D that are savage against any QB.

Vick had some success, but didnt dominate.

Oh.. and let's not forget.. Rodger's is pretty athletic too. But he's no Tebow either. Neither is Vick IMO.. and I think Vick has been injured anyway. And guess where he got injured-- in the pocket.

Rodger's is a pocket passer, something you say is past its prime.

Oh, and in preseason Tebow got hurt running to the endzone. Guess that doesnt work either.

Come on college boy. Try harder, your just making yourself look pretty stupid here.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 07:56 PM

I like Tebow, but damn Mac, you're almost making me hope he gets traded.

Your loss.. cut off your own nose to spite your face.

You hate Tebow for your own ignorance? Two wrongs don't make a right..

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 07:57 PM

Your loss.. cut off your own nose to spite your face.

You hate Tebow for your own ignorance? Two wrongs don't make a right..

He said he LIKED Tebow :confused:

Northman

01-09-2011, 07:57 PM

I like Tebow, but damn Mac, you're almost making me hope he gets traded.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Before this day started i was doing everything i could to defend Tebow from those who didnt care if he was traded. Now, im with you. This guy is totally making me want him off this team. SO unfortuante.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 07:58 PM

Your loss.. cut off your own nose to spite your face.

You hate Tebow for your own ignorance? Two wrongs don't make a right..

No no no.. you misunderstand. It's not that I hate Tebow. I'm just hoping that if he gets traded you'll go haunt another unfortunate team's message board and post this drivel over there.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 07:59 PM

All truth goes through three phases:

1st it is ridiculed
2nd it is violently opposed
3rd it is accepted as self evident

We have obviously moved to violent opposition.

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:00 PM

So someone that knows more than you about Tebow is fanatical?

I think the problem is some people can't stand someone knowing more about there new player than they do. You refuse to even accept the possibility of what I am saying.. and act as if I am loony to think it or express a different opinion than you.

How does that give you a reason to hate Tebow? The fact you would even say or think that shows the real issue. Someone can't "make" a rational person do something they know is wrong...

You assume that because I think Tebow is great I am fanatical.. instead of actually considering the possibility he is great.. simply because so many idiots say he can't be. The same idiots that said Jamarcus Russel was going to be the next Elway...

For starters genius. I dont hate Tebow, i dislike people like you who think his shit dont stink. Big difference.

Secondly, i watched Tebow at Florida since i live on the east coast so i know what im talking about when it comes to his playing ability. Its not rocket science here.

And for the record, i knew Russell was going to be a bust so that goes against everything you just tried to imply about me there.

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:01 PM

That's cheap dude.. the guy just got out of prison and you are knocking him for not winning the superbowl. lol

This is what is wrong with NFL fans.. they are so ultra conservative.. it's comical. If something isn't an overwhelming success immediately out of the gates they think it can't work.

You don't even consider the Eagles lack of D.. and Vick still dominated with them. Packers have great D that are savage against any QB.

Oh.. and let's not forget.. Rodger's is pretty athletic too. But he's no Tebow either. Neither is Vick IMO.. and I think Vick has been injured anyway. And guess where he got injured-- in the pocket.

Damn you make it sound like Tebow is the best thing that ever put on a pair of cleats and stepped on a field...:lol:

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:01 PM

http://www.texasmotorspeedway.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/21/0207.LMAO.jpg

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:03 PM

I'm not sure he'll ever be as good as Polamalu, but he is VERY good. Congrats on a great year KCL!!!!!

Only time will tell...remember this was his rookie season and he did well.He was all over the field today playing his heart out trying to make a difference.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:05 PM

All truth goes through three phases:

1st it is ridiculed
2nd it is violently opposed
3rd it is accepted as self evident

We have obviously moved to violent opposition.

hahahahahahaahahahaha.. yep.. you're practically up against an angry mob with torches and pitchforks. :coffee:

EMB6903

01-09-2011, 08:05 PM

Only time will tell...remember this was his rookie season and he did well.He was all over the field today playing his heart out trying to make a difference.

Berry is going to be a pain in the Broncos ass for the next decade.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:06 PM

Only time will tell...remember this was his rookie season and he did well.He was all over the field today playing his heart out trying to make a difference.

I will admit that I was very impressed with him today

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:06 PM

No no no.. you misunderstand. It's not that I hate Tebow. I'm just hoping that if he gets traded you'll go haunt another unfortunate team's message board and post this drivel over there.

So you hate me because I have a different opinion than you.. what do you think these message boards are for? Agreeing with each other all day?

Is it my fault you guys don't know anything about Tebow and listen to others that don't either? And assume they know what they are talking about and I don't?

It's sad.. you know.. there are very few people who appreciated Tebow for what he was in college even.. I had hoped that wasn't going to happen in the NFL too. Looks like he might not even get a chance to show what he can do in the NFL for the same kind of reason.

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:07 PM

Berry is going to be a pain in the Broncos ass for the next decade.

I hope so!!! :D

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:07 PM

I'm still on step one of this guy's list.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:08 PM

Damn you make it sound like Tebow is the best thing that ever put on a pair of cleats and stepped on a field...:lol:

Why is that funny? It makes a lot more sense than saying that about Andrew Luck... no one laughed at that.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:09 PM

So you hate me because I have a different opinion than you.. what do you think these message boards are for? Agreeing with each other all day?

Is it my fault you guys don't know anything about Tebow and listen to others that don't either? And assume they know what they are talking about and I don't?

It's sad.. you know.. there are very few people who appreciated Tebow for what he was in college even.. I had hoped that wasn't going to happen in the NFL too. Looks like he might not even get a chance to show what he can do in the NFL for the same kind of reason.

Dude, I don't hate you. I wouldn't hate anybody because of a message board. It would be nice for the discussions if you were a bit more objective, though.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:10 PM

I'm still on step one of this guy's list.Apparently I've graduated to step two, but I've always been a fast burner with things like this.

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:10 PM

Why is that funny? It makes a lot more sense than saying that about Andrew Luck... no one laughed at that.

Why is that? And before you tell me, please show me the qualifications you have that would lead me to believe your opinion over NFL scouts.

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:10 PM

Tebow is so good he can throw the ball and run down field and catch it.Probably even score a TD...:beer:

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 08:11 PM

So you hate me because I have a different opinion than you.. what do you think these message boards are for? Agreeing with each other all day?

Is it my fault you guys don't know anything about Tebow and listen to others that don't either? And assume they know what they are talking about and I don't?

It's sad.. you know.. there are very few people who appreciated Tebow for what he was in college even.. I had hoped that wasn't going to happen in the NFL too. Looks like he might not even get a chance to show what he can do in the NFL for the same kind of reason.

We are Bronco fans = fans of the whole team - not a fan of just one player on the Broncos.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:12 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Before this day started i was doing everything i could to defend Tebow from those who didnt care if he was traded. Now, im with you. This guy is totally making me want him off this team. SO unfortuante.

That's actually my plan.. I really want him to go back to Jacksonville and make Broncos fans look like fools for trading him..

:coffee:

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:12 PM

Tebow is so good he can throw the ball and run down field and catch it.Probably even score a TD...:beer:

And steamroll Berry after he's caught it.

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:13 PM

That's actually my plan.. I really want him to go back to Jacksonville and make Broncos fans look like fools for trading him..

:coffee:

Unfortunately, Broncos fans can't trade him. That would be up to the management.

If only...

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:13 PM

Why is that funny? It makes a lot more sense than saying that about Andrew Luck... no one laughed at that.

Do you even have to ask...go back through the thread and read what you posted.Lighten up..like I posted while back only time will tell what kind of impact he will have.When he starts every game and goes up against some good defenses then people will know what kind of NFL QB he will be.Right now it hard to say.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:15 PM

We are Bronco fans = fans of the whole team - not a fan of just one player on the Broncos.

You aren't even a fan of Broncos players.. many of you are still fans of Cutler and BMarsh and they aren't even Broncos anymore.. and you sure didn't support your coach even though he tried to do what was right for you guys.. at his own expense. I guess he should have just kept guys like Cutler and made the playoffs but tanked every year just to keep his job.. play it nice and safe... draft Andrew Luck and not Tebow.. nice and safe.. run a "pro style" offense... nice and safe... change Tebow's mechanics and make him a pocket passer.. nice and safe.. do what everyone else is doing then you can't go wrong..

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:15 PM

And steamroll Berry after he's caught it.

Oh no Berry wouldn't even be close to him...:D

EMB6903

01-09-2011, 08:16 PM

Wondering how dude is recieving so many responses?

must be a slow night.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:18 PM

Unfortunately, Broncos fans can't trade him. That would be up to the management.

If only...

Bowlen said Broncos fans got McD fired.. because they complained so much about Spygate.

But the funny part is it probably wasn't even about Spygate. If McD had been dominating and had Spygate happen no one would have said jack probably.

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:18 PM

You aren't even a fan of Broncos players.. many of you are still fans of Cutler and BMarsh and they aren't even Broncos anymore.. and you sure didn't support your coach even though he tried to do what was right for you guys.. at his own expense. I guess he should have just kept guys like Cutler and made the playoffs but tanked every year just to keep his job.. play it nice and safe... draft Andrew Luck and not Tebow.. nice and safe.. run a "pro style" offense... nice and safe... change Tebow's mechanics and make him a pocket passer.. nice and safe.. do what everyone else is doing then you can't go wrong..

Yes, because making the playoffs is much worse than going 4-12...

Lol you just said you shouldn't do what everyone else does while admitting that if he would have done what everyone else does we'd be in the playoffs. Wow what a fail.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:19 PM

Wondering how dude is recieving so many responses?

must be a slow night.

It is. I'm fighting a cold and have nothing better to do right now. :)

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:19 PM

Bowlen said Broncos fans got McD fired.. because they complained so much about Spygate.

But the funny part is it probably wasn't even about Spygate. If McD had been dominating and had Spygate happen no one would have said jack probably.

I bet that was a hard one to figure out!

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:20 PM

Wondering how dude is recieving so many responses?

must be a slow night.

You know why I am getting responses.. hit a nerve. Violent opposition. They can't handle the truth.. :beer:

What the heck else have I done that is so wrong?

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:21 PM

That's actually my plan.. I really want him to go back to Jacksonville and make Broncos fans look like fools for trading him..

:coffee:

Ohhhh, so your a Jax fan. Gotcha. Your doing a hell of a job.

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:21 PM

You aren't even a fan of Broncos players.. many of you are still fans of Cutler and BMarsh and they aren't even Broncos anymore.. and you sure didn't support your coach even though he tried to do what was right for you guys.. at his own expense. I guess he should have just kept guys like Cutler and made the playoffs but tanked every year just to keep his job.. play it nice and safe... draft Andrew Luck and not Tebow.. nice and safe.. run a "pro style" offense... nice and safe... change Tebow's mechanics and make him a pocket passer.. nice and safe.. do what everyone else is doing then you can't go wrong..

I don't think you've read too many of Carol's post to say what you have said about her.I have known her for many years and she has been a Broncos fan for a long time.Think before you post...it will do wonders for you.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:21 PM

You know why I am getting responses.. hit a nerve. Violent opposition. They can't handle the truth.. :beer:

What the heck else have I done that is so wrong?

I'm just wondering what the "violent" opposition is. You're arguing that the NFL has never seen a talent like Tebow before. The rest of us aren't ready to put him in the HoF after three games.... not sure what's violent about that.

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:23 PM

You know why I am getting responses.. hit a nerve. Violent opposition. They can't handle the truth.. :beer:

What the heck else have I done that is so wrong?

Talking out your ass for starters.

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:23 PM

There's a reason the NFL has never seen a talent like Tebow before. It's because players like him don't succeed at this level.

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:24 PM

You know why I am getting responses.. hit a nerve. Violent opposition. They can't handle the truth.. :beer:

What the heck else have I done that is so wrong?

I wouldnt call it the truth your putting out there. I think we just cant believe how much of a fanboy you are and to what extremes you would go to show your lack of knowledge of professional football.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:24 PM

Yes, because making the playoffs is much worse than going 4-12...

Lol you just said you shouldn't do what everyone else does while admitting that if he would have done what everyone else does we'd be in the playoffs. Wow what a fail.

You play to win championships not to make the playoffs and tank.. you could have been good but not great with that bonehead talent. Yes you had a crap season this year.. but that was also because of your ultra conservatism and it was a transitional year. Playing Orton over Tebow was ultraconservatism.

Everyone said "Orton gives us the best chance to win now". Orton gave you ZERO chance of winning now. At least Tebow had the possibility to have the chance to win now.. Orton sure didn't. Maybe more chance to win game one and that is it.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:24 PM

There's a reason the NFL has never seen a talent like Tebow before. It's because players like him don't succeed at this level.

Hey... knock it off!!! Responses like that are going to get you moved up to level #2 with me. I was kind of enjoying the view and the solitude!

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:26 PM

You play to win championships not to make the playoffs and tank.. you could have been good but not great with that bonehead talent. Yes you had a crap season this year.. but that was also because of your ultra conservatism and it was a transitional year. Playing Orton over Tebow was ultraconservatism.

Everyone said "Orton gives us the best chance to win now". Orton gave you ZERO chance of winning now. At least Tebow had the possibility to have the chance to win now.. Orton sure didn't. Maybe more chance to win game one and that is it.

Yet, you said McD was a great coach. Funny how he didnt think your boy was the best chance to win. :lol:

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:27 PM

I wouldnt call it the truth your putting out there. I think we just cant believe how much of a fanboy you are and to what extremes you would go to show your lack of knowledge of professional football.

How can I be a fanboy when I am a fan of Tebow's talent.. not him.. it makes no sense.

I see his greatness.. what the heck is wrong with that?

I guess it is just NFL fans lack of original thought.. if someonthinks differently they are ignorant. But let's face it.. NFL fans aren't exactly rocket scientists.. lol

Like making Elway the president of the team.. haha Elway was a legendary player.. no question about that.. but cerebral he is not. lol Did you see his press conference? Wow.. I thought it was a used car lot opening.. lol

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:29 PM

You play to win championships not to make the playoffs and tank.. you could have been good but not great with that bonehead talent. Yes you had a crap season this year.. but that was also because of your ultra conservatism and it was a transitional year. Playing Orton over Tebow was ultraconservatism.

Everyone said "Orton gives us the best chance to win now". Orton gave you ZERO chance of winning now. At least Tebow had the possibility to have the chance to win now.. Orton sure didn't. Maybe more chance to win game one and that is it.

Now IIRC a few post back you were critical of Bronco fans because they wanted McD fired...now who made the decision to keep Orton in at QB over Tebow?

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 08:29 PM

You aren't even a fan of Broncos players.. many of you are still fans of Cutler and BMarsh and they aren't even Broncos anymore.. and you sure didn't support your coach even though he tried to do what was right for you guys.. at his own expense. I guess he should have just kept guys like Cutler and made the playoffs but tanked every year just to keep his job.. play it nice and safe... draft Andrew Luck and not Tebow.. nice and safe.. run a "pro style" offense... nice and safe... change Tebow's mechanics and make him a pocket passer.. nice and safe.. do what everyone else is doing then you can't go wrong..

Do you realize that it was McDaniels who would not start Tebow?

Tim Tebow's time to start for Broncos not yet right, McDaniels says

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16693304?source=rss

And when did Tebow start at QB - AFTER THE FIRING

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:30 PM

Yet, you said McD was a great coach. Funny how he didnt think your boy was the best chance to win. :lol:

Damn you beat me to it with this post North...:lol:

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:30 PM

How come Jags never shows up to defend these Tebow fanboys? :confused:

I sense a conspiracy.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:30 PM

Yet, you said McD was a great coach. Funny how he didnt think your boy was the best chance to win. :lol:

There you go making brilliant assumptions again.. lol

McD was protecting Tebow from this team and knee jerking fans.. not the other way around. I alos think McD was thinking of Tebow's long term success.. and protecting him from the team. Orton was really only here to take the fall. But I bet McD didn't even think Orton could suck this bad. But he underestimated Orotn's ability to sell his team out to protect his own starter position.

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:31 PM

Oh shit, he just insulted Elway. Now that I would violently oppose.

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:32 PM

How can I be a fanboy when I am a fan of Tebow's talent.. not him.. it makes no sense.

I see his greatness.. what the heck is wrong with that?

Greatness at what? 3 games isnt going to show you really anything at this point. College? Need i remind you that 85% of the players in college are average to suck? There's a reason why most of them dont make the NFL man so putting THAT much stock into what they do in college is pointless.

I guess it is just NFL fans lack of original thought.. if someonthinks differently they are ignorant. But let's face it.. NFL fans aren't exactly rocket scientists.. lol

Your clearly a troll, go back to your college forums. You know nothing of NFL football that much is VERY evident.

Like making Elway the president of the team.. haha Elway was a legendary player.. no question about that.. but cerebral he is not. lol Did you see his press conference? Wow.. I thought it was a used car lot opening.. lol

More trolling.

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:33 PM

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:33 PM

Oh shit, he just insulted Elway. Now that I would violently oppose.

Nah, i wouldnt even beat him down for that. But with that post its VERY clear his intentions on this board and he should be removed for baiting and trolling at this point. Either that or take his sorry ass to the smack forum and let him post to his hearts content there.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:34 PM

Now IIRC a few post back you were critical of Bronco fans because they wanted McD fired...now who made the decision to keep Orton in at QB over Tebow?

There were a lot of things that went into that.. but protecting Tebow from knee jerking homers that had their hearts set against Tebow from the beginning was a big part of it. We forget how many Orton lovers there were early in the season too. They have disappeared now though.. lol

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:35 PM

There you go making brilliant assumptions again.. lol

McD was protecting Tebow from this team and knee jerking fans.. not the other way around. I alos think McD was thinking of Tebow's long term success.. and protecting him from the team. Orton was really only here to take the fall. But I bet McD didn't even think Orton could suck this bad. But he underestimated Orotn's ability to sell his team out to protect his own starter position.

:lol: Oh man.

I better stop or im going to get dinged. Congrats on becoming the first person on my ignore list 2011. You are a champion of that cause fanboy. :beer:

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:36 PM

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:37 PM

There, much better now. Just needed to take out the garbage and the thread is all cleaned up. Happy times! lol

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:37 PM

There were a lot of things that went into that.. but protecting Tebow from knee jerking homers that had their hearts set against Tebow from the beginning was a big part of it. We forget how many Orton lovers there were early in the season too. They have disappeared now though.. lol

Excuse me...WTF? Take a stroll in the Broncos talk and count how many
"Start Tebow" threads there are from long time Bronco fans.You know it's one thing to be a fan of his but to come across as arrogant as you are about Tebow and post nothing about the Broncos in general is obnoxious as hell.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:38 PM

There, much better now. Just needed to take out the garbage and the thread is all cleaned up. Happy times! lol

No way I could ignore him. He's far too entertaining. Now that I've realized that it must be a joke because he can't be serious this guy is cracking me up.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:39 PM

So you guys ask me questions and ask me to explain myself to you then when I do you say I AM a troll. come one. What have I said that isn't a fact?

Northman

01-09-2011, 08:40 PM

No way I could ignore him. He's far too entertaining. Now that I've realized that it must be a joke because he can't be serious this guy is cracking me up.

Not to me, even Jags is far more entertaining than this _______. See, i was being nice. :D

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:41 PM

Excuse me...WTF? Take a stroll in the Broncos talk and count how many
"Start Tebow" threads there are from long time Bronco fans.You know it's one thing to be a fan of his but to come across as arrogant as you are about Tebow and post nothing about the Broncos in general is obnoxious as hell.

People weren't begging for Tebow to be started UNTIL Ortun already threw the season away. Then they expect Tebow to come in and play with no prep in the sheetstorm Orotn and the fans created? Typical.

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:41 PM

I agree this is entertaining..and I don't even like the Broncos...:D

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 08:43 PM

Not to me, even Jags is far more entertaining than this _______. See, i was being nice. :D

That's a really high standard, though. Jags is one of the funniest posters on this board.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:44 PM

You cut my used car lot line?! That was a classic!

It's hilarious to me you guys are pretending I am talking out of my butt when Steve Young said what I have beens saying since Tebow's freshman season after seeing Tebow get his first win.

Steve Young had been mocking Tebow.. then saw him killing in an NFL game and said we are witnessing greatness and that Tebow should revolutionize the position.. exactly as I had said all along..

Sometimes it sucks to be a visionary though.. so many blind homers everywhere..

Still stuck on violent opposition...

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:45 PM

So you guys ask me questions and ask me to explain myself to you then when I do you say I AM a troll. come one. What have I said that isn't a fact?

:spit: Stop it man, you're killin' me.

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 08:46 PM

There you go making brilliant assumptions again.. lol

McD was protecting Tebow from this team and knee jerking fans.. not the other way around. I alos think McD was thinking of Tebow's long term success.. and protecting him from the team. Orton was really only here to take the fall. But I bet McD didn't even think Orton could suck this bad. But he underestimated Orotn's ability to sell his team out to protect his own starter position.

A few posts back, you said:

"Playing Orton over Tebow was ultraconservatism.

Everyone said "Orton gives us the best chance to win now". Orton gave you ZERO chance of winning now. At least Tebow had the possibility to have the chance to win now.. Orton sure didn't. Maybe more chance to win game one and that is it."

Now, you are saying that McD did not start Tebow because he was protecting Tebow :confused:

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:46 PM

People weren't begging for Tebow to be started UNTIL Ortun already threw the season away. Then they expect Tebow to come in and play with no prep in the sheetstorm Orotn and the fans created? Typical.

McD refused to start him..as carol posted...TT didn't get the start til after he was fired.

spikerman

01-09-2011, 08:50 PM

I think the proper response to both Carol's and KCL's posts is what the kids call "pwned."

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:54 PM

Now, you are saying that McD did not start Tebow because he was protecting Tebow

I said there was a lot to go into it..

- the team sucked 0 let Orton take the fall - sacrificial LAMB
- protect Tebow from the sucky team which would have made Tebow look bad and knee jerking fans who are ultra conservative and think they can win now.
- And in the process while Tebow is not starting you can work on his mechanics for the future.

Plus Orton LOOKED good early. I think Mcd was even fooled by this. Fool's gold. And that would have increased the pressure on Tebow because Orton was makig so few mustakes.. BUT Orton played so conservatively it made him look good and made Tebow look bad for actually trying to win games if he got picks. Tebow's is not the checkdown master dunk and dunker Orton is. So knee jerking fans that don't understand the game would have had a fit..

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 08:57 PM

McD refused to start him..as carol posted...TT didn't get the start til after he was fired.

No.. McD refused to play him in garbage time of blow outs.. fans didn't want Tebow starting until the season was lost.. that is a horrible situation for Tebow to come into. Fans didn't care though they wanted to see Tebow fail anyway.. so they could draft the god -- ultra conservative Andrew Luck.. Orton 2.0... lol Uber Orton.. hahah

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:58 PM

I said there was a lot to go into it..

- the team sucked 0 let Orton take the fall - sacrificial LAMB
- protect Tebow from the sucky team which would have made Tebow look bad and knee jerking fans who are ultra conservative and think they can win now.
- And in the process while Tebow is not starting you can work on his mechanics for the future.

Plus Orton LOOKED good early. I think Mcd was even fooled by this. Fool's gold. And that would have increased the pressure on Tebow because Orton was makig so few mustakes.. BUT Orton played so conservatively it made him look good and made Tebow look bad for actually trying to win games if he got picks. Tebow's is not the checkdown master dunk and dunker Orton is. So knee jerking fans that don't understand the game would have had a fit..

LMAO....:lol:

KCL

01-09-2011, 08:59 PM

No.. McD refused to play him in garbage time of blow outs.. fans didn't want Tebow starting until the season was lost.. that is a horrible situation for Tebow to come into. Fans didn't care though they wanted to see Tebow fail anyway.. so they could draft the god -- ultra conservative Andrew Luck.. Orton 2.0... lol Uber Orton.. hahah

Again...LMAO...:lol:

You know it all buddy...you should be an NFL scout and an analyst.

I thought TT was the god...:rolleyes:

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 09:03 PM

Again...LMAO...:lol:

You know it all buddy...you should be an NFL scout and an analyst.

I thought TT was the god...:rolleyes:

Tebow would have still dominated.. as you saw in the Raiders game.. when he outplayed Orton from the get go.. BUT.. you don't risk such a valuable investment if you don't have to. McD said Tebow was the backup so he was obviously ready to play him if Orton was injured.. which was an inevitability.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 09:04 PM

It just occurred to me why you guys are so violently opposed to "Tebow fans"...

It's called Freudian projecting.. look it up. It could help you guys a TON.

KCL

01-09-2011, 09:07 PM

Tebow would have still dominated.. as you saw in the Raiders game.. when he outplayed Orton from the get go.. BUT.. you don't risk such a valuable investment if you don't have to. McD said Tebow was the backup so he was obviously ready to play him if Orton was injured.. which was an eventuality.

Whatever...your crush on Tebow is ridiculous...people here don't hate him.Several were happy when Denver drafted him.Stop being so overbearing about him and people will post with you if you wanna talk straight up football but your carrying on about Tebow gets old.He has yet to prove anything in the NFL.

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 09:09 PM

It just occurred to me why you guys are so violently opposed to "Tebow fans"...

It's called Freudian projecting.. look it up. It could help you guys a TON.

Oh the irony.

GEM

01-09-2011, 09:09 PM

How sad....some college fan boi could affect people so much. :lol:

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 09:10 PM

Northman

01-09-2011, 09:14 PM

How sad....some college fan boi could affect people so much. :lol:

Yea, but now that your here and i see your avy you affect me entirely different. :D

KCL

01-09-2011, 09:14 PM

How sad....some college fan boi could affect people so much. :lol:

We're just having a little fun is all...no harm in that...:D

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 09:22 PM

Whatever...your crush on Tebow is ridiculous...people here don't hate him.Several were happy when Denver drafted him.Stop being so overbearing about him and people will post with you if you wanna talk straight up football but your carrying on about Tebow gets old.He has yet to prove anything in the NFL.

I never said he proved anything.. I am talking about his potential. His talent.. and the state of the game. Is Steve Young wrong to say the same thing I do? What about all the people saying he can't make it without letting him prove himself? Why the double standard..

And I was attacked for being a "Tebow fan" before I commented on it.

When people are begging for new QBs like the unproven Luck and Elway is saying Tebow isn't a QB.. something is wrong.. Tebow may be more of a QB in this era than anyone else..

The reason this may be so important though is that Tebow may have a career more like a runningback as a QB.. what if Tebow had his most dominant part of his career at the beginning of his career as a QB like a runningback.. what if he could win multiple championships in the first 8 years of his career then you brought in another athletic Qb like him at that time. So NFL QBs were no longer 12 year players etc but you won more with them?

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 09:27 PM

How sad....some college fan boi could affect people so much. :lol:

Another horribly wrong assumption.. I'm not a college fan. Not a Florida fan.. not religious.. not a homer..

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 09:30 PM

I never said he proved anything.. I am talking about his potential. His talent.. and the state of the game. Is Steve Young wrong to say the same thing I do? What about all the people saying he can't make it without letting him prove himself? Why the double standard..

And I was attacked for being a "Tebow fan" before I commented on it.

When people are begging for new QBs like the unproven Luck and Elway is saying Tebow isn't a QB.. something is wrong.. Tebow may be more of a QB in this era than anyone else..

The reason this may be so important though is that Tebow may have a career more like a runningback as a QB.. what if Tebow had his most dominant part of his career at the beginning of his career as a QB like a runningback.. what if he could win multiple championships in the first 8 years of his career then you brought in another athletic Qb like him at that time. So NFL QBs were no longer 12 year players etc but you won more with them?

Where did Elway say that Tebow is not a QB?

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 09:34 PM

Where did Elway say that Tebow is not a QB?

You're right.. he said he wasn't a "good" QB.. I stand corrected.. bravo..

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 09:38 PM

You're right.. he said he wasn't a "good" QB.. I stand corrected.. bravo..

On Denver Broncos Rookie QB Tim Tebow

"The advantage is his attitude and work ethic. He wants to be the best that he can possibly be. He's not going to cut any corners to try to the be the best he can be. He didn't come out of a pro-oriented type offense. He came out of the option, the shot gun, foot work wise and technique wise that I've been able to see from the past three games, that's gotta improve. When you can improve his mechanics you can improve his accuracy. We have high expectations of Tim. The coach that comes in has got to be able to work with him as far as technique and accuracy. He's still young. He's a good football player because he wants to win, he’s a competitor. He has those intangibles that you can't coach, but the next guy that comes in as far the offense goes, they’ve got to be able to make him a good quarterback. Tim didn’t get a lot of reps during the season, Kyle was the one they gave all the reps to. I admired him for the way he played, but you have to understand that he’s still a rookie that has a long way to go. What we saw was his maturity and that he would compete in all circumstances, which is a great quality to have because you can’t coach it."

http://www.877theticket.com/page.php?page_id=59

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 09:41 PM

but the next guy that comes in as far the offense goes, they’ve got to be able to make him a good quarterback.

I just completely disagree with this part. I really hope that isn't how he feels and he is just not articulating himself well. At least more than any other rookie.. because Tebow is very very good downfield. He just struggles with the short quick routes. I think Elway is really underselling him here.

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 09:45 PM

I just completely disagree with this part. I really hope that isn't how he feels and he is just not articulating himself well. At least more than any other rookie.. because Tebow is very very good downfield. He just struggles with the short quick routes. I think Elway is really underselling him here.

So, you yourself said that Tebow struggles with the short quick routes - would that not be part of making him a good QB if he can overcome that struggle?

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 09:52 PM

So, you yourself said that Tebow struggles with the short quick routes - would that not be part of making him a good QB if he can overcome that struggle?

No.. I just think that is something he has to work on like any other young QB. Most QBs are the opposite IMO. They are great with mechanics and short dink and dunk passing like Orton but can't pass down field effectively. This is why I think Tebow is an elite passer.. he juts isn't a well rounded passer, yet. But People think he is a bad passer.. and when you say things like this it just gives them more fuel.

It's like those announcers in the Raiders game though, "who said Tebow can't pass" -- John Elway now..

Denver Native (Carol)

01-09-2011, 09:56 PM

No.. I just think that is something he has to work on like any other young QB. Most QBs are the opposite IMO. They are great with mechanics and short dink and dunk passing like Orton but can't pass down field effectively. This is why I think Tebow is an elite passer.. he juts isn't a well rounded passer, yet. But People think he is a bad passer.. and when you say things like this it just gives them more fuel.

It's like those announcers in the Raiders game though, "who said Tebow can't pass" -- John Elway now..

Where did John say that Tebow can't pass?:confused:

KCL

01-09-2011, 10:01 PM

No.. I just think that is something he has to work on like any other young QB. Most QBs are the opposite IMO. They are great with mechanics and short dink and dunk passing like Orton but can't pass down field effectively. This is why I think Tebow is an elite passer.. he juts isn't a well rounded passer, yet. But People think he is a bad passer.. and when you say things like this it just gives them more fuel.

It's like those announcers in the Raiders game though, "who said Tebow can't pass" -- John Elway now..

I doubt Tebow takes any of this personal like you are and you are.You have no idea...none of us do the relationship that Tebow and Elway have.He can learn a lot from Elway and I'm sure he'd be the first one to say that if asked about John.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 10:03 PM

Where did John say that Tebow can't pass?:confused:

Well if he said he isn't a good QB.. seems pretty self explanatory.. ask anyone why Elway doesn't think Tebow is a good passer.. that's probably what they would say.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 10:05 PM

I doubt Tebow takes any of this personal like you are and you are.You have no idea...none of us do the relationship that Tebow and Elway have.He can learn a lot from Elway and I'm sure he'd be the first one to say that if asked about John.

I hope you are right. but I jutst don't think it's is good to add more scrutiny and more pressure. The kid is a rock but why make it harder than it needs to be?

Dapper Dan

01-09-2011, 10:10 PM

He said he was A Heisman candidate.. not THE Heisman.. lol Big difference... HUGE difference..

Remember.. in most cases a Heisman is a team award as well. So his statement is pretty meaningless.

So a Heisman candidate means nothing? I guess not.

And if it's a team award then Urban Meyer is crazy. Why would he say that Tennessee was any good?

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 10:13 PM

So a Heisman candidate means nothing? I guess not.

And if it's a team award then Urban Meyer is crazy. Why would he say that Tennessee was any good?

Their defense was carrying them.. and he was the leader of the defense.. but he still wasn't on Tebow's level. come one.. haha No shame in that though.

KCL

01-09-2011, 10:17 PM

I hope you are right. but I jutst don't think it's is good to add more scrutiny and more pressure. The kid is a rock but why make it harder than it needs to be?

I'm pretty sure Tebow is use to pressure playing in some big college games.It's a learning experience for him.

I Eat Staples

01-09-2011, 10:29 PM

Their defense was carrying them.. and he was the leader of the defense.. but he still wasn't on Tebow's level. come one.. haha No shame in that though.

I let it go the first time, but you're looking for the word "on," not "one."

KCL

01-09-2011, 10:34 PM

Their defense was carrying them.. and he was the leader of the defense.. but he still wasn't on Tebow's level. come one.. haha No shame in that though.

You talking about Berry? I don't watch college ball except for MU once in a while and I didn't know who Eric Berry was or anything about him.I see why he was a first round pick by Pioli for the Chiefs.He came in and started right away,has had a great rookie season and definitely deserves to be playing in the NFL...I have been impressed with him all season.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 10:52 PM

Berry definitely has great instincts.. I believe he was a QB himself at one time which helps him know how to read offenses and QBs so well.

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 10:54 PM

I let it go the first time, but you're looking for the word "on," not "one."

Typo.. thanks for letting it go.. NOT ;)

MacGruder

01-09-2011, 10:58 PM

I'm pretty sure Tebow is use to pressure playing in some big college games.It's a learning experience for him.

The problem is when you have so much negativity and unrealistic expectations and you have someone only focusing on your negatives it is contagious. Take his first three games.. under the circumstances he played very well and showed great talent. And sure he made rookie mistakes.. but because he has so much scrutiny around him and such a huge spotlight on him and a magnifying glass picking him apart people overreact to normal negative games. They see Tebow's interceptions and forget guys like Bradford and Peyton Manning have had their share of interceptions. Then people wonder why he runs so much and never develops as a passer. He has to.. because if he doesn't play perfect people are waiting for the opportunity to crucify him and he might not get a second chance. IF you want him to develop like everyone else then give the opportunity to do it. This season would have been the perfect opportunity.. but nope.. wasted on Neckbeard chasing the playoffs in a pipe dream.

HORSEPOWER 56

01-10-2011, 08:24 PM

Jusr remember.. I am a Tebow fan because of how great he is.. not the other way around.. You could say I am not even a fan of Tebow.. but his game. I view Tebow as a Michael Jordan type player in the NFL. I see him as a transcendent competitor and talent.

Don't jump to conclusions about Tebow fans it makes ti look like you are on some kind of with hunt.

As a "Tebow fan" I am just trying to impart what I have learned to you guys.. it could be very beneficial. He is an incredibly misunderstand talent.. It's already cost him one season.. and your tram one season because you didn't know what you had and were too afraid to even find out. And most would have knee jerked early on so it prevented McDaniels form even using him. It was this same kind of knee jerking that made people think Orton was something more than fool's gold..

Really? "impart what I have learned to you guys"... Like Tebow was some closet sleeper pick and nobody knows who he is, what he's about or hasn't seen him play...

TEBOW HAS BEEN THE MOST TALKED ABOUT, FILMED, AND ANALYZED ATHLETE IN ALL OF SPORTS FOR 5 YEARS!

You don't know shit more than any other Bronco fan about Tim Tebow's ability to play football. You act like you're his brother or his agent and you have all of this "inside info" that Tebow has yet to reveal. Like there's some surprise that only Tebow, you, and Steve Young are waiting to spring on football fans everywhere...

Get over yourself, Macgruber. You are no more an "expert" on Tebow than anyone else with internet access. You can't see the future and don't know what will happen with his NFL career. All you have is the same as the rest of us, hope.

MacGruder

01-10-2011, 10:57 PM

Really? "impart what I have learned to you guys"... Like Tebow was some closet sleeper pick and nobody knows who he is, what he's about or hasn't seen him play...

TEBOW HAS BEEN THE MOST TALKED ABOUT, FILMED, AND ANALYZED ATHLETE IN ALL OF SPORTS FOR 5 YEARS!

You don't know shit more than any other Bronco fan about Tim Tebow's ability to play football.

Oh really? Then why did everyone think Florida was going to be just as dominant without him? Many even thought Flordia would be BETTER without Tebow because his replacement John Brantley "LOOKED" like an NFL QB. Just like the nitwits who said Orton LOOKED like a better QB than Tebow.

You act like you're his brother or his agent and you have all of this "inside info" that Tebow has yet to reveal. Like there's some surprise that only Tebow, you, and Steve Young are waiting to spring on football fans everywhere...

That's how I feel.. even most Florida fans don't understand Tebow's game. It's because he is so unique. People thought the prototypical QB was a guy like Mike Vick or Vince Young.. speedy pure runners. People don't understand why Teebow is so great. If they did he never would have dropped in the draft like he did. There is a ton of things people don't know about Tebow because ESPN likes to play up the hate on him.

Get over yourself, Macgruber. You are no more an "expert" on Tebow than anyone else with internet access. You can't see the future and don't know what will happen with his NFL career. All you have is the same as the rest of us, hope.

Sounds like you need to get over yourself.. you are deluding yourself if you think there aren't people out there with more knowledge than yourself or the majority of Denver fans in certain areas. I doubt many have watched Tebow's entire career. He's a freakish talent... he has freakish skills we have never seen in a NFL QB before. Steve Young didn't see it until recently. What makes you think you or anyone else did?

And FYI.. everyone has their own "gifts".. believe it or not, seeing talent before others is something that happens very frequently with me. I see a lot of things before others do..

HORSEPOWER 56

01-10-2011, 11:49 PM

Oh really? Then why did everyone think Florida was going to be just as dominant without him? Many even thought Flordia would be BETTER without Tebow because his replacement John Brantley "LOOKED" like an NFL QB. Just like the nitwits who said Orton LOOKED like a better QB than Tebow.

That's how I feel.. even most Florida fans don't understand Tebow's game. It's because he is so unique. People thought the prototypical QB was a guy like Mike Vick or Vince Young.. speedy pure runners. People don't understand why Teebow is so great. If they did he never would have dropped in the draft like he did. There is a ton of things people don't know about Tebow because ESPN likes to play up the hate on him.

Sounds like you need to get over yourself.. you are deluding yourself if you think there aren't people out there with more knowledge than yourself or the majority of Denver fans in certain areas. I doubt many have watched Tebow's entire career. He's a freakish talent... he has freakish skills we have never seen in a NFL QB before. Steve Young didn't see it until recently. What makes you think you or anyone else did?

And FYI.. everyone has their own "gifts".. believe it or not, seeing talent before others is something that happens very frequently with me. I see a lot of things before others do..

Just so you know, I live in Jacksonville, Fl. I've seen every game Tebow played in college, every highlight reel, and every media press conference snippet because they televise EVERYTHING because it's his HOME TOWN. They even interrupted prime time television to announce and show footage of him being drated by Denver on EVERY LOCAL NETWORK.

Don't act like you're the only one who knows Tebow. Every Bronco fan knows Tebow. The point is, you're not telling us anything we don't already know and Tebow clearly isn't everything you think he is or we would've gone 3-0 when he started. He's a fantastic football player and I'm glad he's here, but he isn't a HOF player just yet...

frauschieze

01-11-2011, 12:04 AM

Every time we get a Tebow fan trained, another springs up in their place.

*sighs*

MacGruder

01-11-2011, 01:30 AM

Just so you know, I live in Jacksonville, Fl. I've seen every game Tebow played in college, every highlight reel, and every media press conference snippet because they televise EVERYTHING because it's his HOME TOWN. They even interrupted prime time television to announce and show footage of him being drated by Denver on EVERY LOCAL NETWORK.

I just explained to you that most Flordia fans don't ven know how good Tebow is because homers like to delude themselves and think their entire team and organization was great. Before Tebow left people thought Urban Meyer was carrying Tebow and he was just a facade.

Don't act like you're the only one who knows Tebow. Every Bronco fan knows Tebow. The point is, you're not telling us anything we don't already know and Tebow clearly isn't everything you think he is or we would've gone 3-0 when he started. He's a fantastic football player and I'm glad he's here, but he isn't a HOF player just yet...

So why isn't anyone else saying how he will revolutionize the game? Why was everyone saying "Orton gives us the best chance to win".. then Tebow comes in with no prep and no coach and outplays him?

And Tebow did have this team in position to win all three games. But you want to protect an investment like Tebow in such a horrible situation. He did exactly what he as supposed to do in these games -- show his immense potential.

Also, I see no one else talking about how the QB position is changing.. but you are right.. everyone knows everything already.

What is funny to me is how snobby and territorial people are. Like little children.