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Cugel
01-06-2011, 07:26 PM
This excerpt from a Denver Post article about the Elway hire caught my eye:


So, if you are not prone to leaps of faith, you look to see if the structure around Elway is likely to put him in a position to succeed. And the first thing you notice. . . is the Broncos are doing nothing to improve their player personnel department.

This certainly looks like the team's weakest link. Erratic drafts and curious trades have left the roster talent-poor. When the Chiefs faced this situation, they lured GM Scott Pioli from New England. Two years later, they're back in the playoffs. The Broncos' most obvious need was the best young judge of football talent in the free world.

They didn't even make a call. Didn't chat with Eric DeCosta of the Ravens or Kevin Abrams of the Giants or Omar Khan of the Steelers or, well, anybody. You'd think they might at least have checked in with Doug Whaley of the Bills, considering their list of coaching candidates includes Mike Mularkey, Perry Fewell and Gregg Williams, each of whom the Bills elected not to retain as their head coach.
Why? You know why. Because it was all Josh McDaniels' fault. Xanders made the case that the various personnel blunders of the past two years never would have happened if they'd been his calls. . . . This is still a pretty artful save on Xanders' part. (http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_17021568?source=pkg)


Apparently Elway's reason for not considering anybody other than Xanders for the GM spot is that "we [Bowlen, Ellis, Elway and Xanders] talked about that, but we thought that Brian deserved a chance." . . . It's worth remembering that Xanders, a salary-cap expert, had no actual scouting experience when he arrived 2 1/2 years ago, according to former Falcons GM Ken Herock.

This last quote from Falcons GM Ken Herock is in direct contradiction to the puff-piece in the Mile High Report to the effect that Xanders has all this great GM experience and that he's been studying film 10 hours a day for years both here and in Atlanta.

I'm not going to comment on Xanders' claim that "the devil (McDaniels) made me do it" when it came to drafting, but if the Atlanta GM is telling the truth, Xanders actually has TWO years of film experience with the Broncos and prior to that was a "cap-guy" for the Falcons. Sounds like somebody's been padding his resume. :coffee:

You'd think the Broncos would try and get somebody who was the acknowledged BEST in the NFL to be their GM, instead of using NEPOTISM to promote Xanders because he's an insider who's buddies with Joe Ellis, Bowlen's business crony!

We deserve better than that! :coffee:

Tned
01-06-2011, 07:33 PM
This excerpt from a Denver Post article about the Elway hire caught my eye:





This last quote from Falcons GM Ken Herock is in direct contradiction to the puff-piece in the Mile High Report to the effect that Xanders has all this great GM experience and that he's been studying film 10 hours a day for years both here and in Atlanta.

I'm not going to comment on Xanders' claim that "the devil (McDaniels) made me do it" when it came to drafting, but if the Atlanta GM is telling the truth, Xanders actually has TWO years of film experience with the Broncos and prior to that was a "cap-guy" for the Falcons. Sounds like somebody's been padding his resume. :coffee:

You'd think the Broncos would try and get somebody who was the acknowledged BEST in the NFL to be their GM, instead of using NEPOTISM to promote Xanders because he's an insider who's buddies with Joe Ellis, Bowlen's business crony!

We deserve better than that! :coffee:

Herock has said that about Xanders, but Elway last night echoed what Xanders and McKay (his boss after Herock left) said about Xanders, which is that he spent five years on Reeve's coaching staff, and then spent 7 or so years in Atlanta reviewing film, traveling to colleges and doing other on the road scouting.

Herock left Atlanta before any of that happened. Herock seems to think that Xanders did the exact same job in Atlanta for the 10+ years after Herock left, as he was doing when Herock was there.

robert ethan
01-06-2011, 07:35 PM
C'mon, Cudgel, if "the Devil made him do it" on draft day, sign up that Devil instead of Mr. El the Talking Head. Moreno was runner up for OROTY, Ayers came on this season and may still fulfill Mike Mayock's prediction for him, McBath and Bruton played a lot, Thomas when he was healthy was a stud, Tebow looks like the best QB out of the 2010 draft, Walton and Beadles played full time as rookies, Decker was effective when called upon, Cox and Thompson played beyond all expectations, Cassius Vaughan as well. Look around the league before criticizing the Bronco drafts.

Superchop 7
01-06-2011, 08:20 PM
It was a cluster, but life goes on.

Cugel
01-07-2011, 08:03 AM
C'mon, Cudgel, if "the Devil made him do it" on draft day, sign up that Devil instead of Mr. El the Talking Head. Moreno was runner up for OROTY, Ayers came on this season and may still fulfill Mike Mayock's prediction for him, McBath and Bruton played a lot, Thomas when he was healthy was a stud, Tebow looks like the best QB out of the 2010 draft, Walton and Beadles played full time as rookies, Decker was effective when called upon, Cox and Thompson played beyond all expectations, Cassius Vaughan as well. Look around the league before criticizing the Bronco drafts.

You do know that you should not eat the Brown Acid, right? :coffee:

I don't have to "look around the league" the epic FAILURE of McIdiot's dafting is blindly apparent already!

#1 -- threw away a first round pick to move up in the second round and draft Alphonso Smith -- then traded Smith for a gum wrapper. You just CANNOT DO THAT in the NFL and survive as a GM.

A YEAR after a 1st rounder is expended and the Broncos have ZERO for it? EPIC FAIL! :coffee:

#2 -- Moreno instead of Brian Orakpo? When they had Peyton Hillis and Ryan Torain, BOTH of whom had excellent (and in Hillis's case a PRO-BOWL season with other teams)? Then brought in even MORE useless stiffs to replace them and the team was LAST IN THE NFL in rushing?

The crying need was DEFENSE and there was a guy sitting right there who could have come in day 1 and helped the franchise and was the CONSENSUS PICK!

And apparently Xanders felt so as well, but was overruled by McDaniels.

Then there was the BRILLIANT Ayers instead of Clay Matthews draft. Exact same scenario. I don't care what Maycock said: Ayers was considered a WILD reach by NFL GMs -- some of whom like Atlanta's were QUOTED in the Post as saying "I never understood the Ayers pick."

To say he's "come on" this season? Just watch and see if Ayers is on this team in 2 years time. He probably won't be. He's the second coming of Jarvis Moss! :coffee:

I could go on and on about McDaniels endless documented FAILURES, but why bother. NFL GMs have spoken eloquently on this subject in an interview article on the Post.

NONE of 11 NFL GMs interviewed thought the Broncos had even AVERAGE talent on their squad. The highest they ranked the team was #28 in the league in terms of their roster top to bottom!

9 of 11 said that there were NO Blue or Elite players on the team two years after McDaniels came here, while 2 said Champ Bailey -- good teams have 3 or more.

The ONLY guys on the team rated at the 2nd level -- Pro Bowl talent were holdovers from the Mike Shanahan era. McDaniels added exactly ZERO players in this category. And the team was woefully short of talent at that level too compared with other teams around the league.

Once again I could go on with this endless withering critique made by McDaniels peers -- NFL GMs and personnel experts, and talk about the endless can of worms that was his TRADES, but why bother.

If you can look at a disastrous train wreck that was the McDaniels era and say to yourself "looks like that train is right on time!" then you're utterly beyond delusional! Just don't expect the rest of the entire world to agree with your tin-foil hat theories.
:coffee:

vettesplus
01-07-2011, 10:12 AM
C'mon, Cudgel, if "the Devil made him do it" on draft day, sign up that Devil instead of Mr. El the Talking Head. Moreno was runner up for OROTY, Ayers came on this season and may still fulfill Mike Mayock's prediction for him, McBath and Bruton played a lot, Thomas when he was healthy was a stud, Tebow looks like the best QB out of the 2010 draft, Walton and Beadles played full time as rookies, Decker was effective when called upon, Cox and Thompson played beyond all expectations, Cassius Vaughan as well. Look around the league before criticizing the Bronco drafts.


Cox fully played beyond all expectations!!!:laugh::laugh:

topscribe
01-07-2011, 11:03 AM
You do know that you should not eat the Brown Acid, right? :coffee:

I don't have to "look around the league" the epic FAILURE of McIdiot's dafting is blindly apparent already!

#1 -- threw away a first round pick to move up in the second round and draft Alphonso Smith -- then traded Smith for a gum wrapper. You just CANNOT DO THAT in the NFL and survive as a GM.

A YEAR after a 1st rounder is expended and the Broncos have ZERO for it? EPIC FAIL! :coffee:

#2 -- Moreno instead of Brian Orakpo? When they had Peyton Hillis and Ryan Torain, BOTH of whom had excellent (and in Hillis's case a PRO-BOWL season with other teams)? Then brought in even MORE useless stiffs to replace them and the team was LAST IN THE NFL in rushing?

The crying need was DEFENSE and there was a guy sitting right there who could have come in day 1 and helped the franchise and was the CONSENSUS PICK!

And apparently Xanders felt so as well, but was overruled by McDaniels.

Then there was the BRILLIANT Ayers instead of Clay Matthews draft. Exact same scenario. I don't care what Maycock said: Ayers was considered a WILD reach by NFL GMs -- some of whom like Atlanta's were QUOTED in the Post as saying "I never understood the Ayers pick."

To say he's "come on" this season? Just watch and see if Ayers is on this team in 2 years time. He probably won't be. He's the second coming of Jarvis Moss! :coffee:

I could go on and on about McDaniels endless documented FAILURES, but why bother. NFL GMs have spoken eloquently on this subject in an interview article on the Post.

NONE of 11 NFL GMs interviewed thought the Broncos had even AVERAGE talent on their squad. The highest they ranked the team was #28 in the league in terms of their roster top to bottom!

9 of 11 said that there were NO Blue or Elite players on the team two years after McDaniels came here, while 2 said Champ Bailey -- good teams have 3 or more.

The ONLY guys on the team rated at the 2nd level -- Pro Bowl talent were holdovers from the Mike Shanahan era. McDaniels added exactly ZERO players in this category. And the team was woefully short of talent at that level too compared with other teams around the league.

Once again I could go on with this endless withering critique made by McDaniels peers -- NFL GMs and personnel experts, and talk about the endless can of worms that was his TRADES, but why bother.

If you can look at a disastrous train wreck that was the McDaniels era and say to yourself "looks like that train is right on time!" then you're utterly beyond delusional! Just don't expect the rest of the entire world to agree with your tin-foil hat theories.
:coffee:

Would you say that with Orakpo and Mathews on the team, the Broncos
could have won at least four more games this season?


P.S. The way Champ literally shut down WRs who are bound for the Pro
Bowl this year, I have to disagree with those GMs' assessments of him . . .

-----

Northman
01-07-2011, 11:04 AM
Would you say that with Orakpo and Mathews on the team, the Broncos
could have won at least four more games this season?

-----

Probably. Considering we would of still had Hillis, Cutler, Marshall, and Nolan. We probably would of won the division.

G_Money
01-07-2011, 11:08 AM
I brought up the Herock issue before, because it concerns me. Still, Herock was only there for the first couple of years that Xanders worked for the Falcons, and everything that came in the decade after would have been away from Herock.

Doesn't mean he is clueless about Xanders and his resume - he said he thought about bringing in Xanders if he'd gotten the Redskins GM job so obviously he'd kept tabs on Brian.

But if John did his due dilligence on Xanders, then I can't argue the experience point. John says he's done what he says he's done. Now we'll see if Brian is any good at the things he says he's done.

I still don't think Xanders is the right man for the job, but I really, really hope either our good scouts have had their input marginalized the last couple years after Goodman left, or that we hire some new and better scouts.

Fast.

~G

Northman
01-07-2011, 11:10 AM
I still don't think Xanders is the right man for the job, but I really, really hope either our good scouts have had their input marginalized the last couple years after Goodman left, or that we hire some new and better scouts.

Fast.

~G

Totally agree.

topscribe
01-07-2011, 11:11 AM
Probably. Considering we would of still had Hillis, Cutler, Marshall, and Nolan. We probably would of won the division.

I think the addition of Orakpo and Mathews alone would have been worth four
more wins. Had the Broncos retained Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis,
they would not have had to waste draft choices on offense, and they could
have focused almost entirely on defense. They probably could have gone
deep into the playoffs, for sure.

Ah well, coulda, woulda, shoulda . . .

-----

Ravage!!!
01-07-2011, 11:24 AM
It seems that X's perspectives,inputs, and suggestion on the draft choices are pretty well documented with those in the know. Thats why they feel he deserves another chance. Doesn't really shock me. McD proved that he wasn't going to listen to anyone, and felt he was the smartest (or the only smart) person in the entire organization, firing anyone that questioned his greatness, and ignoring anyone that gave input.

TXBRONC
01-07-2011, 11:40 AM
It seems that X's perspectives,inputs, and suggestion on the draft choices are pretty well documented with those in the know. Thats why they feel he deserves another chance. Doesn't really shock me. McD proved that he wasn't going to listen to anyone, and felt he was the smartest (or the only smart) person in the entire organization, firing anyone that questioned his greatness, and ignoring anyone that gave input.

I've read articles that have said the scouting department gave serveral players but he just brushed it off. From what I recall there was no references to specific players so it's hard to say if they gave him advice about taking guys like Orakpo and Matthews.

I think not to long Xanders said there instances where McDaniels made personnel decisions without talking to him.

jhildebrand
01-07-2011, 12:14 PM
Where are all the people that told me a 4th for Maroney was a very good deal :mad:

pipes
01-07-2011, 01:43 PM
Totally agree.

I see the front office as...Elway picks the players to go after and its X's job to hammer out the contract/salary cap issues.
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pipes
01-07-2011, 01:45 PM
Where are all the people that told me a 4th for Maroney was a very good deal :mad:
Idk..for sure the Patriots, Chiefs, Raiders, and Chargers fans all think it was a good trade!
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Denver Native (Carol)
01-07-2011, 04:42 PM
Chic Chat with Adam Schefter:


Vijay (NYC)

Does it surprise you that the Broncos retained GM Brian Xanders? The #1 knock on the McDaniels regime was personnel failings, not X and O mistakes, and Xanders was knee deep in those problems.

Adam Schefter (2:33 PM)

No, Vijay, Josh was making most of the personnel moves. Josh is a great football coach. But other things derailed him from that and took his focus. Brian Xanders assisted in those moves, but I don't know that he was directly responsible for them. Don't blame him. And now, Xanders will be working with Elway while the new head coach -- whoever he is -- coaches the team. It looks like it has the potential to be a more effective structure.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/36307/nfl-insider-adam-schefter

Lonestar
01-07-2011, 07:28 PM
I think the addition of Orakpo and Mathews alone would have been worth four
more wins. Had the Broncos retained Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis,
they would not have had to waste draft choices on offense, and they could
have focused almost entirely on defense. They probably could have gone
deep into the playoffs, for sure.

Ah well, coulda, woulda, shoulda . . .

----- When it was time to retain them all where was athw money coming from?

BroncoStud
01-07-2011, 08:37 PM
When it was time to retain them all where was athw money coming from?

Hillis wasn't going to demand money, Cutler was already pretty well compensated, Marshall would have been let go once Lloyd showed his potential (so no biggie there) and Scheffler wasn't going to be top dollar.

What is stupid is the money Shanahan threw at Graham. What a waste.

I don't think anyone would complain if they had a chance to lock up a franchise QB. You simply do NOT get rid of them. Denver would have a decent chance at a playoff spot right now if the offense had been left alone and the defense repaired.

Xanders and McDumbass BOTH deserve blame on this.

I Eat Staples
01-07-2011, 09:09 PM
I'm not at all happy about Xanders being our full time GM. He can handle contracts, but that's all he's shown he can do.

BeefStew25
01-07-2011, 09:14 PM
I wish Elway hired a mentor. Some older dude that would work 6 hours a day an ski on the weekend. Maybe a dude that had been a GM, but now wants to chill but still stay involved.

jhildebrand
01-08-2011, 01:22 AM
When it was time to retain them all where was athw money coming from?

Not paying 3 HC's at the same time would be a good start ;)

Besides, with a core like that knowing you could be on the verge of a dynasty is how you get home town discounts like the Pats have had for years!

atwater27
01-08-2011, 10:14 AM
The scuttlebutt around the league is that Xanders as GM is the reason no blue chip head coaching prospects will even sniff in our general direction..... GREAT JOB Mr. Bowlen! Epic fail.

Tned
01-08-2011, 05:35 PM
The scuttlebutt around the league is that Xanders as GM is the reason no blue chip head coaching prospects will even sniff in our general direction..... GREAT JOB Mr. Bowlen! Epic fail.

Where are these rumors from. I haven't seen them anywhere.

As to Mr. Bowlen, why don't we see the results before we 'assume' the results will be a failure.

Lonestar
01-11-2011, 01:28 PM
Hillis wasn't going to demand money, Cutler was already pretty well compensated, Marshall would have been let go once Lloyd showed his potential (so no biggie there) and Scheffler wasn't going to be top dollar.

What is stupid is the money Shanahan threw at Graham. What a waste.

I don't think anyone would complain if they had a chance to lock up a franchise QB. You simply do NOT get rid of them. Denver would have a decent chance at a playoff spot right now if the offense had been left alone and the defense repaired.

Xanders and McDumbass BOTH deserve blame on this.


You are correct about Graham. Just one of mikeys many fubars as
For jay not wanting a huge contract do not kid yourself. IMHO it was all about it.

There is little doubt in my mind that mikey told the trio that new contracts would done in the spring as it would the final year of the rookie contract.

When Josh was hired they all saw mikeys promise of a fat renewal go down the drain.

There is also little doubt that jay stated that in conversations he had with Josh when they first met. With Josh telling him/them it would not happen until later.

What was mikeys MO was not going to be the way Josh did business. Hecwanted to see if they can play in the scheme. I suspect even your self would have to agree that jay would have been reluctant not to go deep while ignoring open underneath receivers.

Now I would have loved to keep him and allow Jjosh to turn him around but believe he was way to immature to deal with that.

Jay IMHO is not a franchise QB that y'all seem to think he is. He did well this year but had a pretty good team around him defensively as well as ST group.

I do not think He would have made that much difference in 09.
Perhaps this year but frankly I'd rather have Tebow.

Now I know alot of folks here will never want to see it that way buts that is how I see it.

slim
01-11-2011, 01:36 PM
The scuttlebutt around the league is that Xanders as GM is the reason no blue chip head coaching prospects will even sniff in our general direction..... GREAT JOB Mr. Bowlen! Epic fail.

Link?

Lonestar
01-11-2011, 01:36 PM
Not paying 3 HC's at the same time would be a good start ;)

Besides, with a core like that knowing you could be on the verge of a dynasty is how you get home town discounts like the Pats have had for years!

Considering the amount money they all got with new teams. Are you going to say the 3 mil that Josh would have gotten would have been able to handle that.

Ravage!!!
01-11-2011, 01:45 PM
We would have paid them the same way other teams do.

Cutler was under contract, Hillis wasn't going to cost tons, Scheffler wasn't goign to be huge. Marshall would have been big dollars, but probablly not nearly what he got in Miami because we would have resigned him long before he had a chance to test the open market.

Retaining that corp of players would not have been difficult.

Whether or not you believe in Cutler or not, the fact is that he was Weellllllll worth keeping, and getting rid of him will set this team back for years. Not only trying to replace him, but trying to replace the rest of the talent as well.

No WAY any team, with a SMART personnel person, would keep Lloyd over Marshall.... EVER.

Shananahan
01-11-2011, 01:59 PM
I think the addition of Orakpo and Mathews alone would have been worth four
more wins. Had the Broncos retained Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis,
they would not have had to waste draft choices on offense, and they could
have focused almost entirely on defense. They probably could have gone
deep into the playoffs, for sure.

Ah well, coulda, woulda, shoulda . . .
-----
I know it's fun to rant, but how exactly would Denver have ended up with both Orakpo and Mathews while retaining Cutler?

Lonestar
01-11-2011, 04:04 PM
You can rant all you want but there will be a cap again.

And bm/jay/Tony/hills would have gotten substantial contracts this year if not last which two of them still have to do.

I know of your love for jay. But he would have not been a star here with out a attitude adjustment and I'm not so sure that hecwas all that responsible for da bears winning those games.

He has not been mentioned any where as a FQB as compared to the ones that are indeed FQB. Well except for on a few broncos forum that is.

So dream a little dream an see if it turnabout true or not.

I'll take Tebow any day.

DenBronx
01-11-2011, 04:20 PM
So Tebows a FQB but Cutler isnt even close?

HA HA HAAAA!!!!




:coffee:

Lonestar
01-14-2011, 04:27 AM
So Tebows a FQB but Cutler isnt even close?

HA HA HAAAA!!!!




:coffee:

If your referring to my posts yesterday. Reread them.