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cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:14 PM
2010: (2) Ndamukong Suh, (3) Gerald McCoy, (10) Tyson Alualu, Suh is a beast to early to tell on others

2009: (3) Tyson Jackson, (9) B.J. Raji...Raji is solid

2008: (2) Chris Long, (5) Glenn Dorsey (was supposed to the can't miss), (7) Sedrick Ellis, (8) Derrick Harvey. Sedrick Ellis is good.

2007: (4) Gaines Adams, (8) Jamaal Anderson, (10) Amobi Okoye Nothing at all with these picks.

2006: (1) Mario Williams stud when healthy.

2005: None

2004: None

2003: (4) Dewayne Robertson, (6) Johnathan Sullivan, (9) Kevin Williams is a stud

2002: (2) Julius Peppers, (6) Ryan Sims, (9) John Henderson...Pepper elite henderson was good in his prime.

2001: (3) Gerard Warren, (4) Justin Smith, (6) Richard Seymour, (7) Andre Carter, (10) Jamal Reynolds....Smith is good Seymour a stud...Carter Ok

2000: (1) Courtney Brown, (6) Corey Simon nothing special Brown was terrible.

There is NOT a Ndamukong Suh, Richard Seymour, Julius Peppers, Kevin Williams, Mario Williams in the top 10 in this years draft in my opinion.

BigDaddyBronco
01-05-2011, 12:21 PM
I think Dareus is a BJ Raji, McCoy type, not a superstar but a solid DLineman. Hard to say with Fairley, boom or bust maybe. Bowers seems like a boom or bust, maybe somewhere between an Andre Carter and a Peppers.

But hey, the draft is a crapshoot.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:23 PM
2010: (2) Ndamukong Suh, (3) Gerald McCoy, (10) Tyson Alualu, Suh is a beast to early to tell on others

2009: (3) Tyson Jackson, (9) B.J. Raji...Raji is solid

2008: (2) Chris Long, (5) Glenn Dorsey (was supposed to the can't miss), (7) Sedrick Ellis, (8) Derrick Harvey. Sedrick Ellis is good.

2007: (4) Gaines Adams, (8) Jamaal Anderson, (10) Amobi Okoye Nothing at all with these picks.

2006: (1) Mario Williams stud when healthy.

2005: None

2004: None

2003: (4) Dewayne Robertson, (6) Johnathan Sullivan, (9) Kevin Williams is a stud

2002: (2) Julius Peppers, (6) Ryan Sims, (9) John Henderson...Pepper elite henderson was good in his prime.

2001: (3) Gerard Warren, (4) Justin Smith, (6) Richard Seymour, (7) Andre Carter, (10) Jamal Reynolds....Smith is good Seymour a stud...Carter Ok

2000: (1) Courtney Brown, (6) Corey Simon nothing special Brown was terrible.

There is NOT a Ndamukong Suh, Richard Seymour, Julius Peppers, Kevin Williams, Mario Williams in the top 10 in this years draft in my opinion.

Nice rundown. I might offer that you didn't mention that Chris Long is good.
And Courtney Brown also could have been very good, had it not been for
his knees. But I think I understand your reasoning there: A failure to
produce is a failure to produce, regardless of the reason . . .

-----

Buff
01-05-2011, 12:24 PM
I'd like to wait until after the combine when they get put under a microscope before I compare this year's DL class to other DL classes.

BigDaddyBronco
01-05-2011, 12:28 PM
I think if you did a list like this for most positions would would find something similar. I can think of plenty of busts at QB, LT, and WR. I'm sure there are others.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Nice rundown. I might offer that you didn't mention that Chris Long is good.
And Courtney Brown also could have been very good, had it not been for
his knees. But I think I understand your reasoning there: A failure to
produce is a failure to produce, regardless of the reason . . .

-----

Correct Injured or not failure to produce is failure to produce. And I don't think Chris Long is that good he's ok. he was taken with the #2 overall pick had his best year this year 26 tackles 8.5 sacks is hardly what I'm looking for with the #2 pick...I will give you its his third season...I would like to see what he does next year.

Northman
01-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Yep, Long is good but still on a rebuilding team.

Also, Fairly will be good. Bank on it.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:30 PM
D-line is one of the if not the Hardest transition to make from college to the NFL.

broncohead
01-05-2011, 12:31 PM
There may not be a sun type player according to pre draft analysis but u never know till they play in the nfl.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:32 PM
Yep, Long is good but still on a rebuilding team.

Also, Fairly will be good. Bank on it.

See I can see Fairley as a Gerard Warren, Glenn Dorsey type player...not a Warren Sapp

gatorpower
01-05-2011, 12:33 PM
I agree. Having watched Da'Quan Bowers and Nick Fairley play a lot this year. They are considered among the best out there.

Bowers is a great tackler, very fundamentally-sound, but he disappears for huge stretches in games and any double-team shuts-him up completely. Fairley is a big kid, long arms, but not particularly fast or strong. A lot of his sacks come off stunts or when Auburn blitzes. Neither really impressed me as a 60-minute dominating force.

However, Patrick Peterson, CB, is the REAL DEAL. He is a complete shut-down corner. I rank him better than Joe Haden last year (former UF player) and Haden ended up in the top-10 and has 6 picks, 1 forced fumble and 1 sack this year, basically only playing 7 games.

Northman
01-05-2011, 12:33 PM
See I can see Fairley as a Gerard Warren, Glenn Dorsey type player...not a Warren Sapp

Possible, but from what ive seen i dont get that impression.

broncohead
01-05-2011, 12:35 PM
This seems like the exact reasoning why we neglect the DL. "Well there's no suh so we'll skip DL"
We have to stop doing this and draft where we are hurting the most and stop goin for the pretty draft picks

BigDaddyBronco
01-05-2011, 12:37 PM
Possible, but from what ive seen i dont get that impression.
The one thing that kind of bothers me about Fairley is that he came out of nowhere to have this really good season. Could he be a good player that has taken advantage of their system to look really good? I guess you can say that about any of these guys...

Cugel
01-05-2011, 12:37 PM
2010: (2) Ndamukong Suh, (3) Gerald McCoy, (10) Tyson Alualu, Suh is a beast to early to tell on others

2009: (3) Tyson Jackson, (9) B.J. Raji...Raji is solid

2008: (2) Chris Long, (5) Glenn Dorsey (was supposed to the can't miss), (7) Sedrick Ellis, (8) Derrick Harvey. Sedrick Ellis is good.

2007: (4) Gaines Adams, (8) Jamaal Anderson, (10) Amobi Okoye Nothing at all with these picks.

2006: (1) Mario Williams stud when healthy.

2005: None

2004: None

2003: (4) Dewayne Robertson, (6) Johnathan Sullivan, (9) Kevin Williams is a stud

2002: (2) Julius Peppers, (6) Ryan Sims, (9) John Henderson...Pepper elite henderson was good in his prime.

2001: (3) Gerard Warren, (4) Justin Smith, (6) Richard Seymour, (7) Andre Carter, (10) Jamal Reynolds....Smith is good Seymour a stud...Carter Ok

2000: (1) Courtney Brown, (6) Corey Simon nothing special Brown was terrible.

There is NOT a Ndamukong Suh, Richard Seymour, Julius Peppers, Kevin Williams, Mario Williams in the top 10 in this years draft in my opinion.

Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey play in a 3-4 where they are asked to take on double teams all the time. They are solid players and improving, but you can't expect them to shine like Mario Williams at rushing the passer when that's not exactly their role, and when they have to deal with double-teams constantly in their face to get anywhere NEAR the QB.

Of course, this asks the question "why did KC draft two DTs in the top 6 picks when they play a 3-4?" The answer is that they want these guys to develop into monster interior pass-rushers. They are slowly rounding into shape after Dorsey's 3rd season, but so far are NOT as good as Trevor Pryce was in his prime (when he was having 10+ sacks a year as a DT for the Broncos).

If they DO develop and KC gets an OLB to pressure like Dumervil, then their defense will be elite. If not, it can be mediocre to good.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:38 PM
QB since 2000
Sam Bradford
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Matt Ryan
JaMarcus Russell (yuck)
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Alex Smith
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Carson Palmer
Byron Leftwich
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Michael Vick

IMO arguably the the hardest transition from college to NFL

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey play in a 3-4 where they are asked to take on double teams all the time. They are solid players and improving, but you can't expect them to shine like Mario Williams at rushing the passer when that's not exactly their role, and when they have to deal with double-teams constantly in their face to get anywhere NEAR the QB.

Of course, this asks the question "why did KC draft two DTs in the top 6 picks when they play a 3-4?" The answer is that they want these guys to develop into monster interior pass-rushers. They are slowly rounding into shape after Dorsey's 3rd season, but so far are NOT as good as Trevor Pryce was in his prime (when he was having 10+ sacks a year as a DT for the Broncos).

If they DO develop and KC gets an OLB to pressure like Dumervil, then their defense will be elite. If not, it can be mediocre to good.

I understand that....They are both solid player not elite.

Cugel
01-05-2011, 12:47 PM
I think if you did a list like this for most positions would would find something similar. I can think of plenty of busts at QB, LT, and WR. I'm sure there are others.

Actually, if you did this comparison at WR you'd see a LOT MORE busts like Charles Rodgers #2 and David Terrell #7. WR is the MOST risky position to draft in the top 10 and I would never do it if I were a GM. For every guy who winds up a STUD WR, there are equal #s who wind up total busts!

Worse, you'd see guys like Brandon Marshall and Vincent Jackson taken in the 4th round in 2006 while Chad Jackson and Sinorice Moss went in the 2nd! (Then there's our own draft failure -- Darius Watts, 2nd round).

I would draft WR in the 2nd through 4th round. You see guys succeed from these rounds all the time, although you might have to get lucky and perhaps use 2 or 3 picks to make sure you get a stud #1 WR.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:48 PM
CBs since 2000
Joe Haden
Pacman Jones
Carlos Rogers
DeAngelo Hall
Dunta Robinson
Terence Newman
Quentin Jammer

Northman
01-05-2011, 12:49 PM
The one thing that kind of bothers me about Fairley is that he came out of nowhere to have this really good season. Could he be a good player that has taken advantage of their system to look really good? I guess you can say that about any of these guys...

True, but that defense is actually terrible and the guy still was virtually the only highlight on that team outside of Newton.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:53 PM
Wr since 2000
Darrius Heyward-Bey (terrible pick)
Michael Crabtree
Calvin Johnson
Ted Ginn Jr. (terrible pick)
Braylon Edwards
Troy Williamson
Mike Williams
Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
Reggie Williams
Charles Rogers
Andre Johnson
David Terrell
Koren Robinson
Peter Warrick
Plaxico Burress
Travis Taylor

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:54 PM
True, but that defense is actually terrible and the guy still was virtually the only highlight on that team outside of Newton.

That's what scares me more...bc the DC will do more to try to free up Fairley.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 12:56 PM
Don't get me wrong all of the top guys belong to be the top guys in the draft...Just not sure what guy is the guy thats gonna be the stud in the NFL. We cannot afford to miss with the #2 pick...I don't agree with trading back bc we need that impact player now.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 01:00 PM
True, but that defense is actually terrible and the guy still was virtually the only highlight on that team outside of Newton.

A good player on a bad team is put on a figurative island. That is often when
one can tell how good he is. In contrast, the guy who played next to Suh in
college (all the sudden, I can't recall his name) was considered a possible first
rounder . . . until Suh left, and all the sudden he looked more pedestrian.

Fairley didn't have much of a supporting cast around him, yet he still did well.
That says a lot to me . . .

-----

Cugel
01-05-2011, 01:02 PM
I understand that....They are both solid player not elite.

There's NO WAY they could LOOK "elite" in that system. True, they haven't had great stats, but Dorsey seems to be playing well, he just isn't a massive presence -- yet in a system where the DEs are mostly supposed to tie up blockers so the OLB can run around and make plays.

Cugel
01-05-2011, 01:08 PM
Wr since 2000
Darrius Heyward-Bey (terrible pick)
Michael Crabtree [shown nothing so far in 2 seasons -- but he doesn't have a QB either]
Calvin Johnson [not yet worth draft pick, but give him a couple more seasons before writing him off as a bust]
Ted Ginn Jr. (terrible pick)
Braylon Edwards [not so great]
Troy Williamson [not great at all]
Mike Williams [ouch!]
Larry Fitzgerald [best in NFL]
Roy Williams [Urg!]
Reggie Williams [This is just getting painful! Shanahan actually wanted to draft this stiff!]
Charles Rogers [One of the many reasons why Matt Millen is not GM of the Lions anymore!]
Andre Johnson [Surprisingly, took him 4 years to be any good -- then started 100 catch seasons]
David Terrell [I remember him talking about how much talent he had -- shortly before he was cut from the Broncos]
Koren Robinson [he eventually stopped drinking, but he didn't stop sucking]
Peter Warrick [I remember draft "experts" pimping him for the Broncos. Good thing they didn't listen!]
Plaxico Burress [Still would be great for the Giants if he hadn't been packing heat!]
Travis Taylor [Amazing accomplishment: he sucked for 9 seasons yet managed to bounce around the league and make the roster each year -- had 1 catch total in his last 4 seasons!

There! I've fixed your list for you! :beer:

Guys in Yellow were worth the pick! See why I wouldn't take a WR in the top 10? You have a 21% chance of it working out over the last decade!

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 01:10 PM
There's NO WAY they could LOOK "elite" in that system. True, they haven't had great stats, but Dorsey seems to be playing well, he just isn't a massive presence -- yet in a system where the DEs are mostly supposed to tie up blockers so the OLB can run around and make plays.

Richard Seymour is elite in a 3-4 Darnell Dockett, Luis Castillo, Ty Warren, Aaron Smith, Shaun Ellis, Cullen Jenkins, these guys are pretty good in that system. Dorsey and Jackson are not on these guys level yet...I didn't say they couldn't get there. still very young and a lot to learn in the NFL playing 3-4 DE

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 01:11 PM
There! I've fixed your list for you! :beer:

Oh I agree....WR in college can be the hardest position to judge for the NFL draft.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 01:18 PM
I agree. Having watched Da'Quan Bowers and Nick Fairley play a lot this year. They are considered among the best out there.

Bowers is a great tackler, very fundamentally-sound, but he disappears for huge stretches in games and any double-team shuts-him up completely. Fairley is a big kid, long arms, but not particularly fast or strong. A lot of his sacks come off stunts or when Auburn blitzes. Neither really impressed me as a 60-minute dominating force.

However, Patrick Peterson, CB, is the REAL DEAL. He is a complete shut-down corner. I rank him better than Joe Haden last year (former UF player) and Haden ended up in the top-10 and has 6 picks, 1 forced fumble and 1 sack this year, basically only playing 7 games.


Well, if that's the case, I would then be tempted to trade down and work
on filling more holes on the team because my first concern would be the
trenches. Outside of QB, the skill positions on either side of the LOS do not
concern me until I have the trenches solidified and stable, IMO.

-----

underrated29
01-05-2011, 01:18 PM
The one thing that has been starting to bother me a bit about fairley is the news I just heard about his competition....

Now I have not researched this to back it up but...........



Apparantly, most of the teams that fairly has gone up against have a fair amount of freshmen/sophmores on their OL..Which Fairly has been dominating. And that a lot of the solid quality OL came out in the past couple drafts......

That could seriously inflate his numbers......But...... maybe not, maybe their OL is solid already. Like I said, I have not looked at it myself. But it is something to be concerned with. Still, I have him as our #1.......Daraus though is gaining steam.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 01:25 PM
I see your mock would love to get Janoris jenkins in the second.

Cugel
01-05-2011, 01:48 PM
Don't get me wrong all of the top guys belong to be the top guys in the draft...Just not sure what guy is the guy thats gonna be the stud in the NFL. We cannot afford to miss with the #2 pick...I don't agree with trading back bc we need that impact player now.

I made that point in a lengthy post that everybody ignored. Elite teams have 3 or 4 "blue" or "elite" players considered among the best in the NFL. Denver has NONE. Champ Bailey was considered "elite" by 2 out of 8 NFL GMs interviewed. The rest thought he was "Pro-bowl" level -- the 2nd tier. And he's gone anyway.

This is the highest the Broncos have drafted in 40 years! We NEED to pick a total STUD who will be an All-Pro for the next 10 years! NO "good but not great" players! No "solid starter".

And it can all go horribly wrong if you pick the wrong guy!

Do you know when the last time the Broncos had a top 5 pick? 1991. And they took Nebraska LB Mike Croel at #4. And he sucked for 3 seasons before they fired Dan Reeves and cut Croel. We can't afford to do that again!

That's why I would like to see them take Patrick Peterson. I think he's the most certain player they could take at the top of the draft. Just take him #2 and plug him in and let him become the next Champ Bailey.

On the downside, CBs can often be found a LOT later than #2! Raiders' Namdi Asomugha (I still can't spell that!) was taken #31 and he's now the best cover-CB in the NFL.

On the UPSIDE, Champ Bailey was taken #7 by the Redskins and was an INSTANT success and never looked back. Sometimes the guy is as good as he looks. If NFL GMs knew in advance how good Bailey would be, he would have been the #1 overall pick.

Cugel
01-05-2011, 02:01 PM
Well, if that's the case, I would then be tempted to trade down and work
on filling more holes on the team because my first concern would be the
trenches. Outside of QB, the skill positions on either side of the LOS do not
concern me until I have the trenches solidified and stable, IMO.----

LOTS of teams in the top 10 are "tempted to trade down" but you notice it almost never happens! :coffee:

Not only do the top picks cost a mint, (which might change some with the new CBA), but you have to give up virtually your entire draft to move up to #1-#5. (The #1 pick is worth 3000 points, #2 is worth 2600, the #5 is worth 1700, but the #32 is only worth 590).

You'd probably need to offer TWO #1s and possibly other picks next year to pull off a trade if you had a mid-round pick. NO team is going to do that unless there's a "franchise QB" they desperately want -- and see that he will be gone with the next pick or before any other pick they can trade up to. :coffee:

EMB6903
01-05-2011, 02:07 PM
I agree. Having watched Da'Quan Bowers and Nick Fairley play a lot this year. They are considered among the best out there.

Bowers is a great tackler, very fundamentally-sound, but he disappears for huge stretches in games and any double-team shuts-him up completely. Fairley is a big kid, long arms, but not particularly fast or strong. A lot of his sacks come off stunts or when Auburn blitzes. Neither really impressed me as a 60-minute dominating force.

However, Patrick Peterson, CB, is the REAL DEAL. He is a complete shut-down corner. I rank him better than Joe Haden last year (former UF player) and Haden ended up in the top-10 and has 6 picks, 1 forced fumble and 1 sack this year, basically only playing 7 games.

You could not be more full of it with that comment.

silkamilkamonico
01-05-2011, 02:08 PM
Anyone else a little concerned with Fairley's attitude? Great prospect, but he loses his cool at times, and makes dumb selfish personal foul mistakes in retaliation. He seems a little out of control.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 02:10 PM
LOTS of teams in the top 10 are "tempted to trade down" but you notice it almost never happens! :coffee:

Not only do the top picks cost a mint, (which might change some with the new CBA), but you have to give up virtually your entire draft to move up to #1-#5. (The #1 pick is worth 3000 points, #2 is worth 2600, the #5 is worth 1700, but the #32 is only worth 590).

You'd probably need to offer TWO #1s and possibly other picks next year to pull off a trade if you had a mid-round pick. NO team is going to do that unless there's a "franchise QB" they desperately want -- and see that he will be gone with the next pick or before any other pick they can trade up to. :coffee:

I understand. And if there indeed are all those questions surrounding Fairley
and Bowers, and trading down being unlikely, then maybe Peterson would
be the only option at #2. But the major part of my concentration toward
building the team would otherwise still be in the trenches . . .

-----

Cugel
01-05-2011, 02:17 PM
Anyone else a little concerned with Fairley's attitude? Great prospect, but he loses his cool at times, and makes dumb selfish personal foul mistakes in retaliation. He seems a little out of control.

He seems immature. That's a real problem if you are considering making a guy the #2 pick of the entire draft and investing something like $30 million guaranteed over 4 or 5 years in him! (the guaranteed money will be less than Suh got last year, but still will be a LOT!)


Lions -- Ndamukong Suh Defensive Lineman 8/3/2010: Signed a five-year, $60 million contract. The deal contains $40 million guaranteed. (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_contracts.aspx?sport=NFL&majteam=DET) Another $8 million is available through incentives. 2010-2014: Under Contract, 2015: Free Agent

So, instead of 5 years, $60 million with $40 million guaranteed, it might be 5 years, $40 million with $25 or $30 million guaranteed. At BEST. Still rather a lot to give a guy who might have character issues or decide that now he can afford to appear on "MTV Cribs" he can take plays (or games) off. :coffee:

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 02:27 PM
I think Peterson is a sure thing on defense....But Denver has to make DL top priority in FA. If they draft Peterson.

BigDaddyBronco
01-05-2011, 02:28 PM
I think Peterson is a sure thing on defense....But Denver has to make DL top priority in FA. If they draft Peterson.
Yea, that has seemed to work over the last 10 years...

Cugel
01-05-2011, 02:39 PM
I understand. And if there indeed are all those questions surrounding Fairley and Bowers, and trading down being unlikely, then maybe Peterson would be the only option at #2. But the major part of my concentration toward
building the team would otherwise still be in the trenches . . .-----

The Broncos will STILL have at least 2 2nd round picks, and might pick up another for trading Orton (or possibly a 3rd rounder). With possibly FOUR picks in the top 64 they could trade back up into the late 1st round if they saw a DT, S or LB they liked there.

Or they could just sit pat and take 3 second round players (Ideally in no particular order: DT, DE, S, TE or LB since those are their key needs)

The Broncos COULD come out of this draft with a CB, DT, DE, S and TE with their first 3 rounds of picks. That would be a TREMENDOUS help IF they make MAXIMUM use of their picks!

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 02:41 PM
Yea, that has seemed to work over the last 10 years...

And our drafting D-line has?!

Cugel
01-05-2011, 02:45 PM
Yea, that has seemed to work over the last 10 years...

Did you know that the Pittsburgh Steelers found their DEs in the 3rd through 6th round? You can find 3-4 DEs in later rounds and even GOOD ones if you are careful.

Its' the 4-3 MONSTER pass-rushing DEs like Mario Williams or Da'Quan Bowers who will go in the top 5 because there are so FEW guys who are 6'5" and fast enough and strong enough to both fend off 320 lbs. OTs to get to the QB PLUS stuff the run.

That's a tough job. IF the Broncos want to switch to the 4-3 then they probably draft Bowers and try to mold him into the next Mario Williams. If not, then they can take Peterson, and target NT and DE in the 2nd round where they could have as many as 3 picks.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 02:47 PM
Ill help you remember our D-Lineman drafted in 10 yrs...Carlton Powell, Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Marcus Thomas, Nicholas Eason, Aaron Hunt, Clint Mitchell, Dorsett Davis, Monsanto Pope, Paul Toviessi, Reggie Hayward

Broncos have done a great job at drafting D-lineman.......(yikes)

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 02:51 PM
the free agent list isn't much better: Free agent D-Lineman Denver has signed....Courtney Brown, Daryl Gardener, Dewayne Robertson, Jimmy Kennedy, Ebenezer Ekuban, Marco Coleman, Ellis Johnson, Gerard Warren, Leon Lett, Lional Dalton, and John Engelberger.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 02:58 PM
I like these guys for free agents but all depends on 3-4 or 4-3: Cullen Jenkins 3-4, Shaun Ellis 3-4, Marcus Spears 3-4, Chris Hoke 3-4, Jacques Cesaire 3-4, Richard Seymour 3-4, Aubrayo Franklin 3-4, Paul Soliai 3-4, Mathias Kiwanuka 4-3, Charles Johnson 4-3, Brandon Mebane 4-3, Barry Coefield 4-3,

underrated29
01-05-2011, 02:59 PM
Ill help you remember our D-Lineman drafted in 10 yrs...Carlton Powell, Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Marcus Thomas, Nicholas Eason, Aaron Hunt, Clint Mitchell, Dorsett Davis, Monsanto Pope, Paul Toviessi, Reggie Hayward

Broncos have done a great job at drafting D-lineman.......(yikes)




I still like crowder and think it was a mistake to let him go.... Isnt davis doing well in az or somewhere? Hayward was pretty good.

Toviessi was a LB correct? The rest completely Blow..Toviessi too....I do not remember those guys.

Thomas is alright- And the rest...well- you said it best. Yikes.

gatorpower
01-05-2011, 03:12 PM
You could not be more full of it with that comment.

I stand by my statement. He looks great on a '10 highlight reel or against teams like Maryland or Wake Forrest, but he plays around the 4th most-talented team in the ACC, especially on defense, but facing any offense with solid players (Auburn, Miami, North Carolina, South Carolina, USF), he goes entire stretches of being invisible. He was a complete non-factor in his last two games, including the bowl.

In 2008 and 2009, he has a combined 3 sacks, making him likely a one-year wonder.

cuzz4169
01-05-2011, 03:15 PM
I still like crowder and think it was a mistake to let him go.... Isnt davis doing well in az or somewhere? Hayward was pretty good.

Toviessi was a LB correct? The rest completely Blow..Toviessi too....I do not remember those guys.

Thomas is alright- And the rest...well- you said it best. Yikes.

Davis was out of the league 2 years after he was drafted. Hayward had a couple good seasons but was never anything special...Paul Toviessi was a DE. Crowder is lucky to have a job. Thomas is ok the sad part is he our best D-Lineman IMO.

bcbronc
01-05-2011, 05:51 PM
This seems like the exact reasoning why we neglect the DL. "Well there's no suh so we'll skip DL"
We have to stop doing this and draft where we are hurting the most and stop goin for the pretty draft picks

So you recommend the somewhat controversial "dradt for need" technique?

If you've got tons of talent throughout your roster (like, say, the Chargers last draft) that can work. But when your 4-12 with holes every where, you got to go BPA.


That's why if Luck is on the board (absolutely zero chance of that) he's a no-brainer.

After that, depends on what the scouts/X/JE think...if the CB is viewed as a pro-bowl/elite talent while they view tye top-ranked DL as a "solid starter" who might develop into more, then they've got to go BPA.

Best case for us is one of the DLers impresses enough to be the BPA, but we can't afford to leave talent on the table, even with our perrenail need of a talent infusion on the DL.
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broncohead
01-05-2011, 07:16 PM
So you recommend the somewhat controversial "dradt for need" technique?

If you've got tons of talent throughout your roster (like, say, the Chargers last draft) that can work. But when your 4-12 with holes every where, you got to go BPA.


That's why if Luck is on the board (absolutely zero chance of that) he's a no-brainer.

After that, depends on what the scouts/X/JE think...if the CB is viewed as a pro-bowl/elite talent while they view tye top-ranked DL as a "solid starter" who might develop into more, then they've got to go BPA.

Best case for us is one of the DLers impresses enough to be the BPA, but we can't afford to leave talent on the table, even with our perrenail need of a talent infusion on the DL.
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Tebow imo has shown enough to develop as.the starter so im not on the Luck
bandwagon like most. I was simply saying just because there isn't a DL that doesn't look
like suh mario williams or peppers doesn't mean they wont be good players

bcbronc
01-05-2011, 07:59 PM
Tebow imo has shown enough to develop as.the starter so im not on the Luck
bandwagon like most. I was simply saying just because there isn't a DL that doesn't look
like suh mario williams or peppers doesn't mean they wont be good players

I agree, there's room for some pretty good ball players in the range between what we currently have and Suh-pers Mario. All I'm saying is we have too many holes to not take BPA.

I mean there are other ways to generate pressure on the QB. We could go Philly style and get two grade A corners and then create pressure by simply bringing one more than they can block.

I don't really follow college ball too closely, so I'm in no ways saying I want us to take Peterson. I want us to go DL early and often. But not if it means leaving a guy the powers that be have rated higher on the board. It would suck to pass up a guy that turns into "the best CB in the game" for a DL that ends up being as productive as a guy taken after our 2nd pick.

As long as our first two picks are BPA on the defensive side of the ball, I'll be on board DL or not.

DenBronx
01-05-2011, 08:12 PM
Kickers since 2000

Sebastian Janikowski

JDL
01-05-2011, 11:26 PM
Yep, Long is good but still on a rebuilding team.

Also, Fairly will be good. Bank on it.

Fairley is a thug on the field... we could trade back with Washington easy and get a proven thug but good player in Haynesworth at half the cost and still another quality player.

BCJ
01-06-2011, 04:49 AM
the free agent list isn't much better: Free agent D-Lineman Denver has signed....Courtney Brown, Daryl Gardener, Dewayne Robertson, Jimmy Kennedy, Ebenezer Ekuban, Marco Coleman, Ellis Johnson, Gerard Warren, Leon Lett, Lional Dalton, and John Engelberger.

wait a minute. Those browncos got us to the AFC Championship. They dont look so bad now 5 years later!

sneakers
01-06-2011, 05:21 AM
OK, let's draft a WR instead!

Clipworthy
01-06-2011, 07:02 AM
patrick peterson ----> such a freak athlete that his risk decreases dramatically, will contribute in some way guaranteed

is taking a (statistically backed up) risk on a D lineman really worth it for the state this defense is in?

gobroncsnv
01-06-2011, 07:53 AM
Right now, I'd be darn near ecstatic with someone who could even demand an OCCASIONAL double-team... We have had zero up-front for far too long. Hoping the FO listens to Champ... he's been asking for help up front, not sugar-coating it at all. If this new front office does anything besides find us a strong and persistent/INsistent dlineman (or 3), I'll say that our big announcement yesterday was much ado about nothing. That has been a glaring weakness for FAR too long. Right now, cornerback is our strongest position, we just need to get them some help to keep them from having to cover for 10 minutes on every pass play.