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T.K.O.
01-04-2011, 01:34 PM
Broncos will want second round pick for Orton
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 4, 2011, 9:29 AM EST
Kyle Orton, who finished with 20 touchdowns and nine interceptions this year, would upgrade a lot of quarterback situations around the league. He’s a perfect candidate to pair with a raw young quarterback. Like, say, Tim Tebow.

Despite that, Mike Klis of the Denver Post writes that Orton will “likely be traded.” The Broncos will reportedly ask for a second round pick for Orton. A few points here:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/04/broncos-will-want-second-round-pick-for-orton/

Tned
01-04-2011, 01:36 PM
Considering about a quarter of the league appears to be looking for a QB, someone might be willing to give a 2nd for him to use him as a placeholder for a better QB, or if they have a strong defense and running game, which is the kind of team where Orton could probably flourish.

Northman
01-04-2011, 01:36 PM
In the words of the kidnapper of Taken, "Good Luck".

broncohead
01-04-2011, 01:37 PM
That would be nice but I don't think we could vet a 2nd. Probably be a draft day trade to move into the first or something

BroncoStud
01-04-2011, 01:37 PM
Yeah, a 2nd for an average player like him would be awesome.

FanInAZ
01-04-2011, 01:41 PM
No one is going to give up a 2nd round pick for someone who will be cut at the start of free agency.

Juriga72
01-04-2011, 01:43 PM
No one is going to give up a 2nd round pick for someone who will be cut at the start of free agency.

THIS^

WHY give a pick up for someone they can sign to a minimum vet contract?

Ravage!!!
01-04-2011, 01:45 PM
couple things.

One... the going rate for starting QBs through the years, has been a 2nd round QB.

Two...you start out at a 2nd and that gives you room to negotiate.

FanInAZ
01-04-2011, 01:50 PM
couple things.

One... the going rate for starting QBs through the years, has been a 2nd round QB.

Two...you start out at a 2nd and that gives you room to negotiate.

I agree that you start high in order to give you room to negotiate, but how many GMs are willing to give up even a 7th round pick for a player that will get cut anyway?

T.K.O.
01-04-2011, 01:51 PM
Orton does'nt strike me as the kind of guy who would let his team down.
that being said if the broncos can't get a deal they are happy with ,i see him backing up Tebow next year....and we could do alot worse (see Simms);)

BigSarge87
01-04-2011, 01:52 PM
Considering about a quarter of the league appears to be looking for a QB, someone might be willing to give a 2nd for him to use him as a placeholder for a better QB, or if they have a strong defense and running game, which is the kind of team where Orton could probably flourish.

OMG I've so been on the wrong thread!! Finally someone who agrees with me!

TXBRONC
01-04-2011, 01:54 PM
OMG I've so been on the wrong thread!! Finally someone who agrees with me!

And you thought you were on an island. :lol:

BeefStew25
01-04-2011, 01:55 PM
Guys other teams read this board.

Puff Orton up. Come on.

Loose lips sink ships.

Ravage!!!
01-04-2011, 01:56 PM
I agree that you start high in order to give you room to negotiate, but how many GMs are willing to give up even a 7th round pick for a player that will get cut anyway?

Your criticisms of Orton are too high, even for the point of exaggeration and hyperbole.

BeefStew25
01-04-2011, 01:59 PM
Your criticisms of Orton are too high, even for the point of exaggeration and hyperbole.

A serviceable QB will not get cut in this league.

Count how many teams need a decent QB. Tons. The market is there should DEN go down that road.

Mike
01-04-2011, 02:00 PM
I bet Denver gets at least a 3 for him.

BORDERLINE
01-04-2011, 02:01 PM
getting a 2nd round pick would be great...

but in all honesty i would take a 4th or a 5th with a 7th

TXBRONC
01-04-2011, 02:02 PM
Orton does'nt strike me as the kind of guy who would let his team down.
that being said if the broncos can't get a deal they are happy with ,i see him backing up Tebow next year....and we could do alot worse (see Simms);)

I agree that if Denver can't find a deal they can live they'll for this year.

BigSarge87
01-04-2011, 02:03 PM
I agree that you start high in order to give you room to negotiate, but how many GMs are willing to give up even a 7th round pick for a player that will get cut anyway?

Not seeing your logic. Your basically saying Orton's not even good enough to be a back up on this team.

FanInAZ
01-04-2011, 02:03 PM
Orton does'nt strike me as the kind of guy who would let his team down.
that being said if the broncos can't get a deal they are happy with ,i see him backing up Tebow next year....and we could do alot worse (see Simms);)

In a perfect world, a former starting QB can accept a demotion without being a potential source of strife. Especially if the team struggles under the new QB. Even if Orton is a standup guy that would be genuinely supportive, too many are not. This is why teams tend to not even entertain the possibility. However, I can think of one example in which this did work: when Warner was demoted by the Rams. Nevertheless, that was an exception to the rule.

BORDERLINE
01-04-2011, 02:04 PM
he would do real good in Jax or Minn....

long shots would be Mia and SF....this guy paired with a run game and a solid defense can keep you in some games...

the problem is he might not win it for you in the end

TXBRONC
01-04-2011, 02:05 PM
getting a 2nd round pick would be great...

but in all honesty i would take a 4th or a 5th with a 7th

I wouldn't take just a 6th or a 7th by itself.

Buff
01-04-2011, 02:07 PM
The Broncos ought to have Topscribe negotiate the Orton deal on their behalf. He will demand two first rounders and then eventually end up at a 2nd rounder.

BigSarge87
01-04-2011, 02:07 PM
In a perfect world, a former starting QB can accept a demotion without being a potential source of strife. Especially if the team struggles under the new QB. Even if Orton is a standup guy that would be genuinely supportive, too many are not. This is why teams tend to not even entertain the possibility. However, I can think of one example in which this did work: when Warner was demoted by the Rams. Nevertheless, that was an exception to the rule.

Orton couldn't be a locker room distraction if he tried. That's actually kinda funny to think about. I can't see him being a douche, everyone would just laugh at him.

If we don't trade him, what other choice would he have but to be a back up and like it?

T.K.O.
01-04-2011, 02:10 PM
In a perfect world, a former starting QB can accept a demotion without being a potential source of strife. Especially if the team struggles under the new QB. Even if Orton is a standup guy that would be genuinely supportive, too many are not. This is why teams tend to not even entertain the possibility. However, I can think of one example in which this did work: when Warner was demoted by the Rams. Nevertheless, that was an exception to the rule.

Orton has been through the starter/back up role to know whats up.and that anything can happen in the NFL.he could be a back up week one and start the other 15 games .
he also is slated to make near 7 million bucks next year ,so i think his ego could swallow the back up role:laugh:
sure he would like to get picked up as a starter for min,sf,oak or a host of other teams that could use a steady hand behind center.
but he is under contract and will do what is determined by the broncos.

slim
01-04-2011, 02:11 PM
NTL, please give us a brief overview on the law of supply and demand.

I think a few people could use a refresher.

FanInAZ
01-04-2011, 02:12 PM
For all of you who think I'm being too hard on Orton, I'm not. I think he could be a good starting QB with the right system and talent around him. However, I'm also acknowledging what I believe to be standard operating procedure in the NFL. That is...

1) You don't keep around a former starting QB, unless his name is Kurt Warner, because of the potential of a QB controversy.
2) You don't trade for a player that you are sure is going to get cut.

slim
01-04-2011, 02:14 PM
For all of you who think I'm being too hard on Orton, I'm not. I think he could be a good starting QB with the right system and talent around him. However, I'm also acknowledging what I believe to be standard operating procedure in the NFL. That is...

1) You don't keep around a former starting QB, unless his name is Kurt Warner, because of the potential of a QB controversy.
2) You don't trade for a player that you are sure is going to get cut.

You do when there are 10 other teams that need a QB.

Buff
01-04-2011, 02:14 PM
I think Mike Klis' comparison of Kyle Orton to John Kitna was pretty spot on. There will likely be a market for him, but it will probably be in the 3rd/4th round range... Or player for player like Kitna to the Cowboys for Anthony Henry.

BeefStew25
01-04-2011, 02:16 PM
For all of you who think I'm being too hard on Orton, I'm not. I think he could be a good starting QB with the right system and talent around him. However, I'm also acknowledging what I believe to be standard operating procedure in the NFL. That is...

1) You don't keep around a former starting QB, unless his name is Kurt Warner, because of the potential of a QB controversy.
2) You don't trade for a player that you are sure is going to get cut.

Your argument is horribly flawed.

Go look what Seattle gave SAN for Charlie Whitehurst.

CHARLIE WHITEHURST!

Go look what Denver gave CLE for Brady Quinn

BRADY QUINN!

Go look what WASH gave Philly for Donovan McNabb.

DONOVAN McNABB!

Orton is better than all of then right now. You really think the team that trades for him is going to cut him in training camp?

I want to ring your neck right now and then give you and hug and go get Krispy Kreme.

Dirk
01-04-2011, 02:17 PM
Any team with an offensive line that can protect that needs a QB should seriously think about it. Orton could strive if he has plenty of time and doesn't have to be overly mobile.

Maybe Ariz, Oak, Mia to name a few.

Come to think of it...if Oak does go after McD for OC they would give a 2nd for Orton in a heartbeat.

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2011, 02:18 PM
For all of you who think I'm being too hard on Orton, I'm not. I think he could be a good starting QB with the right system and talent around him. However, I'm also acknowledging what I believe to be standard operating procedure in the NFL. That is...

1) You don't keep around a former starting QB, unless his name is Kurt Warner, because of the potential of a QB controversy.
2) You don't trade for a player that you are sure is going to get cut.

Orton has absolutely no leverage. Denver isn't simply just going to cut Orton, that makes no sense whatsoever. There is no QB controversey. Orton will know where he stands next year if he's with Denver.

If he stays in Denver, he can choose to be a good teammate and then get a better opportunity next year, then if he becomes a distraction.

He's entering the twilight of his career, and is probably 2 seasons of away of not playing before he's a legitimate afterthoughout in this league. If he screws this year up in a backup role if that's what becomes of him, he's committing career suicude.

Nomad
01-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Your argument is horribly flawed.

Go look what Seattle gave SAN for Charlie Whitehurst.

CHARLIE WHITEHURST!

Go look what Denver gave CLE for Brady Quinn

BRADY QUINN!

Go look what WASH gave Philly for Donovan McNabb.

DONOVAN McNABB!

Orton is better than all of then right now. You really think the team that trades for him is going to cut him in training camp?

I want to ring your neck right now and then give you and hug and go get Krispy Kreme.

They're the best....haven't had Krispy Kreme in years...next time will you take me!!:D

Juriga72
01-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Your argument is horribly flawed.

Go look what Seattle gave SAN for Charlie Whitehurst.

CHARLIE WHITEHURST!

Go look what Denver gave CLE for Brady Quinn

BRADY QUINN!

Go look what WASH gave Philly for Donovan McNabb.

DONOVAN McNABB!

Orton is better than all of then right now. You really think the team that trades for him is going to cut him in training camp?

I want to ring your neck right now and then give you and hug and go get Krispy Kreme.

McNabb was benched very quickly for Grossman......Ye of "We benched Kyle for Rex"...lol

Quinn.... yeah... THAT might be the second worst NFL trade since the Herschel Walker trade.

Whitehurst.... ok.. He did just lead a 7-9 team to the playoffs.....LOL

Like you said .. its what teams WILL give for Kyle. IMHO with him getting cut loose in F/A.. I bet its low

BORDERLINE
01-04-2011, 02:23 PM
I wouldn't take just a 6th or a 7th by itself.

I said a 5th and a 7th....

If we get someone to bite for a 3rd or better perfect....

Orton needs a system that is built already all he has to do is fling it 20 times a game and let the running game control the tempo...

BeefStew25
01-04-2011, 02:31 PM
They're the best....haven't had Krispy Kreme in years...next time will you take me!!:D

I would really like that. How tall are you?

underrated29
01-04-2011, 02:44 PM
No one is going to give up a 2nd round pick for someone who will be cut at the start of free agency.


I agree that you start high in order to give you room to negotiate, but how many GMs are willing to give up even a 7th round pick for a player that will get cut anyway?


For all of you who think I'm being too hard on Orton, I'm not. I think he could be a good starting QB with the right system and talent around him. However, I'm also acknowledging what I believe to be standard operating procedure in the NFL. That is...

1) You don't keep around a former starting QB, unless his name is Kurt Warner, because of the potential of a QB controversy.
2) You don't trade for a player that you are sure is going to get cut.







Cutting Orton would be monumentally stupid. Even Mfmcd would not do something as dumb as this.



Why do you even think this?

What is our incentive to cut him? save 5 mil- big deal.
We would still owe him 2.5 anyway.


Plus Orton is a solid backup who was posting top 10 numbers until he got hurt. Some team will definitely trade for him. Who would you rather have as your QB- Troy smith, henne, Joe webb, Rex Grossman, Seneca Wallace, tyler thigpen, or Kye Orton...All of those Qbs started at one time this year.

The answer is obvious, you would take Orton and you would pay a nice draft pick for him. PLus we could use a solid QB as a backup if our other Qb was to get dinged up.


We have all the incentives to keep him and none to cut him. Its a silly idea.

robert ethan
01-04-2011, 02:45 PM
Where is this "Orton is a loser" crap coming from. I think he was 10 games over .500 for his NFL career at the start of this season. Cutler was under .500 and has been since his sophomore season in high school. I'll bet Kyle has a better career winning percentage than more than half the QBs that played last weekend. Tebow's career winning percentage is .367 on the same team.

robert ethan
01-04-2011, 02:49 PM
I'm pretty sure that any football executive with half a brain around the league will look at the Denver situation and conclude that Orton should have had a 10-3 season instead of a 3-10 season.

If not for the defense of Stink Fink Martindale and the rushing "attack" of Epic Stupidsville.

chazoe60
01-04-2011, 02:56 PM
I'm pretty sure that any football executive with half a brain around the league will look at the Denver situation and conclude that Orton should have had a 10-3 season instead of a 3-10 season.

If not for the defense of Stink Fink Martindale and the rushing "attack" of Epic Stupidsville.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


Oh please. Orton was to blame for this fail season also. Orton 10-3? :laugh: With that 3rd down percentage and his lack of balls in the clutch? Please.

vandammage13
01-04-2011, 03:02 PM
I'm pretty sure that any football executive with half a brain around the league will look at the Denver situation and conclude that Orton should have had a 10-3 season instead of a 3-10 season.

If there were an option for a "low-five" you would get it for this statement. The defense certainly stunk, but Orton wasn't very good either. Laughable to think that Orton should have went 10-3. He had opportunities to win 4-5 more games on the final posession and he failed (while the defense was on the sidelines).

If anything, any football executive with half a brain around the league will look at the Denver situation and conclude that Orton had inflated numbers due to McD's pass happy system and racking up yards after the team was down 2 scores.

jlarsiii
01-04-2011, 03:05 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


Oh please. Orton was to blame for this fail season also. Orton 10-3? :laugh: With that 3rd down percentage and his lack of balls in the clutch? Please.

I think Orton should definitely share the blame, but it is really the whole team that is responsible. Our D was horrid this year. Even though Orton was anything but clutch this season if we had a middle of the pack D then we would have had a couple more victories and chances are good we would not be searching for a HC right now.

Juriga72
01-04-2011, 03:07 PM
Where is this "Orton is a loser" crap coming from. I think he was 10 games over .500 for his NFL career at the start of this season. Cutler was under .500 and has been since his sophomore season in high school. I'll bet Kyle has a better career winning percentage than more than half the QBs that played last weekend. Tebow's career winning percentage is .367 on the same team.

Yes he WAS 10 games OVER .500 when the season started....

NOW he is 3 games OVER .500 with ONE year where he won more games than he has lost.

He is also 11-18 as the Denver Bronco starting qb. which is if I can divide correctly....a winning % of .379.

He would be ALL world if he played with the Rockies and that was his batting average...

Juriga72
01-04-2011, 03:15 PM
I'm pretty sure that any football executive with half a brain around the league will look at the Denver situation and conclude that Orton should have had a 10-3 season instead of a 3-10 season.

If not for the defense of Stink Fink Martindale and the rushing "attack" of Epic Stupidsville.

You do understand that BOTH Cassell and Rivers had better years than Orton did right?
Ok... Lets try this..... "If Kyle had JUST a average defense we'd finnish 10-6"

2010 NFL.com "Average scoring defense"-
#16- San Fran- 21.6 pts/game......

Kyle "Led" us to point totals of:
17
31
26
20
14
16
49
14
33
6
13..... The ONLY game we would have won "With just a average Defense" was the St Louis game....

So with "Just a average defense behind him" we would have one more win this year.

JUST like last year with the #7 scoring defense behind him..... we won 8 games.

Kyle < average NFL qb

vandammage13
01-04-2011, 03:17 PM
Where is this "Orton is a loser" crap coming from. I think he was 10 games over .500 for his NFL career at the start of this season. Cutler was under .500 and has been since his sophomore season in high school. I'll bet Kyle has a better career winning percentage than more than half the QBs that played last weekend. Tebow's career winning percentage is .367 on the same team.

Actually, Orton was 3-10 on the same team that Tebow went 1-2.....Last year's team is not the same as this one. For example, the Chiefs went 4-12 last year and 10-6 this year.

So, Orton had a winning percentage of 23% on THIS team while Tebow won 33% of games he started on the SAME team.

robert ethan
01-04-2011, 03:59 PM
Orton has finished with a better QB rating than Cutler BOTH seasons since the trade. Neckblubber brought a QB who is better than himself, along with 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS and a third. Use that as your measuring stick.

SpringsBroncoFan
01-04-2011, 04:02 PM
A 2nd round pick is the correct asking price... I'd take a 3rd & 7th for him...

There are a couple guys who might go undrafted that could help us on the defensive side that we could lock in rather than lose to a better team.

This draft has starting level talent into the 2nd & 3rd rounds. It's really important for us to get another 2nd or 3rd otherwise I think we are trading down to get more picks.

Anyway, back to the topic...

On a team that's ready to win now & only needing a QB, Orton is a good 2 or 3 year rental. Given his age & contract, his value is diminished.

With Luck being the only QB ready to start now and the high numbers of teams needing a starter now, the odds are good.

FYI, I don't buy the arguments that say Orton won't make a difference on a better team. Put him on a team that has a running game & can protect him and he'll be fine.

What is clear is that with the emerging potential of Tebow, our non-existent defense and a lack of picks - we really have no choice but to trade him.

vandammage13
01-04-2011, 04:30 PM
Orton has finished with a better QB rating than Cutler BOTH seasons since the trade. Neckblubber brought a QB who is better than himself, along with 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS and a third. Use that as your measuring stick.

Neckblubber is in the playoffs...Orton and those two firsts are not. I'll use that as the measuring stick.

WARHORSE
01-04-2011, 04:35 PM
They're the best....haven't had Krispy Kreme in years...next time will you take me!!:D

Dont encourage Beef.........you will open your front door on the way to work one morning and he'll be there (if your tall, you'll be staring at his family heirlooms) in a pair of Broncos throwback brown and mustard socks with (cue Creed music here) arms wide open. And he will sing to your soaring hearts drop to your nad sack.

Well I just heard the news today
It seems my life is going to change
I close my eyes, begin to pray
Then tears of joy stream down my face

With arms wide open
Under the sunlight
Welcome to this place
I'll show you everything
With arms wide open
With arms wide open

Well I don't know if I'm ready
To be the man I have to be
I'll take a breath, I'll take you by my side
We stand in awe, we've created life

With arms wide open
Under the sunlight
Welcome to this place
I'll show you everything
With arms wide open
Now everything has changed
I'll show you love
I'll show you everything

With arms wide open
With arms wide open
I'll show you everything ...oh yeah
With arms wide open..wide open

[Guitar Break] HE ACTUALLY PULLS OUT A SIX STRING AT THIS POINT.

If I had just one wish
Only one demand
I hope he's not like me
I hope he understands
That he can take this life
And hold it by the hand
And he can greet the world
With arms wide open...

With arms wide open
Under the sunlight
Welcome to this place
I'll show you everything
With arms wide open
Now everything has changed
I'll show you love
I'll show you everything
With arms wide open
With arms wide open

I'll show you everything..oh yeah
With arms wide open....wide open

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2011, 04:40 PM
Orton has finished with a better QB rating than Cutler BOTH seasons since the trade. Neckblubber brought a QB who is better than himself, along with 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS and a third. Use that as your measuring stick.

A measuring stick is how the QB, the single player who can have the most impact on a team, plays when the pressure is on. Orton has shown none of that whatsoever. Even Tebow, in 3 games, has shown more than Orton when the team's back is against the wall.

Cutler has also played very well in crucial moments when the Bears needed him to come through.

You can have your chosen opinion on the Cutler vs Orton debate, but I think you would be blind to not see which player does more when the team needs them most.

Ravage!!!
01-04-2011, 05:53 PM
Orton has finished with a better QB rating than Cutler BOTH seasons since the trade. Neckblubber brought a QB who is better than himself, along with 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS and a third. Use that as your measuring stick.

QB rating is about the lamest, waste of a mathmatical equation, attempt to judge play, that has EVER been brought to the NFL fandom. It amazes me how many actually use this number as if its something real.

BroncoStud
01-04-2011, 06:03 PM
Orton has finished with a better QB rating than Cutler BOTH seasons since the trade. Neckblubber brought a QB who is better than himself, along with 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS and a third. Use that as your measuring stick.

Cutler can actually take a 7 step drop and get the past the line of scrimmage, Orton can't. You can throw out "QB Rating" all you want but Cutler won his division and Orton got benched for a rookie.

I hope that someone is dumb enough to give up a 2nd rounder for mopey statue like Orton. It will be a great feeling to turn on the TV Sunday afternoon and see Kyle take the fetal position for another team.

Lancane
01-04-2011, 06:05 PM
So what are we asking for Tebow? Just curious...

:lol:

bigplaypotential
01-04-2011, 06:22 PM
perhaps we could package orton and gaffney for a 2nd

jhildebrand
01-04-2011, 07:28 PM
A 2nd would be a major coup for this team. I just don't see a 2nd happening UNLESS 2 teams get involved.

PAINTERDAVE
01-04-2011, 07:31 PM
No one is going to give up a 2nd round pick for someone who will be cut at the start of free agency.

Disagree that he will be cut.
The REASON he was signed to an extra years contract...
was precisly this reason...
so he could be traded.

His contract is incentive laden... so it is not very expensive to let him sit.
There will be at least 4 teams who want him... the bidding will raise his price.

PAINTERDAVE
01-04-2011, 07:32 PM
Orton for 2nd, view from Titans forum
http://gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=67856

Doesn't seem like many are dismissing it

WARHORSE
01-04-2011, 08:41 PM
He is not going to be cut, and people can stop speculating on that to save themselves the typing. heh heh


But I could very well see a team like Minnesota making a play for him. Look at the way Lezlie Frazier was on Favres nads for a start.

He wants a veteran, not a rookie.

Minnesota needs a QB yesterday, and Orton is the man theyre looking for.

They can give up a second and still address needs.

Dreadnought
01-04-2011, 09:20 PM
He is not going to be cut, and people can stop speculating on that to save themselves the typing. heh heh


But I could very well see a team like Minnesota making a play for him. Look at the way Lezlie Frazier was on Favres nads for a start.

He wants a veteran, not a rookie.

Minnesota needs a QB yesterday, and Orton is the man theyre looking for.

They can give up a second and still address needs.

Not a bad call for the Vikes. there is a running game and the ingredients for a defense there. I think Orton can be OK in a situation where he is merely required to not lose ballgames.

Northman
01-04-2011, 09:23 PM
Orton will get just as killed as Favre did. The reason why Webb had any success is because he can actually move fluently.

WARHORSE
01-04-2011, 10:57 PM
Orton will get just as killed as Favre did. The reason why Webb had any success is because he can actually move fluently.

Actually, Orton gets rid of the ball of someones open.

Besides, Orton is fantastic at playaction. He single handedly gave our play action bite because of the effectiveness of his fakes. And that was with absolutely no running game here.

Do that with AP, and Im sure he will be able to move the defense.

BeefStew25
01-04-2011, 11:00 PM
Actually, Orton gets rid of the ball of someones open.

Besides, Orton is fantastic at playaction. He single handedly gave our play action bite because of the effectiveness of his fakes. And that was with absolutely no running game here.

Do that with AP, and Im sure he will be able to move the defense.

Good point Brother.

I will be on Maui in March. Our destiny is to meat.

topscribe
01-04-2011, 11:03 PM
Orton will get just as killed as Favre did. The reason why Webb had any success is because he can actually move fluently.

Not necessarily. Orton has been through two teams now with miserably
porous O-lines. Contrary to the impression of some, he handled the rush
pretty well. His numbers show that.

I will admit, however, that it finally caught up with him. His shoulder was
injured in the SF game, then he incurred a rib injury on one side in the
St. Louis game, then the other side in the KC game. Of course, his high
ankle sprains are well documented, too. So he has taken a beating from the
pass rushes.

However, Minnesota has one thing the Broncos don't have, and Chicago
didn't have: Adrian Peterson. A good running game does wonders in slowing
down a pass rush.

Personally, I think Orton would be a glove-tight fit in Minnesota.

-----

Northman
01-04-2011, 11:09 PM
Actually, Orton gets rid of the ball of someones open.

Besides, Orton is fantastic at playaction. He single handedly gave our play action bite because of the effectiveness of his fakes. And that was with absolutely no running game here.

Do that with AP, and Im sure he will be able to move the defense.

Keyword: When someone's open

2nd Keyword: Time

You must not have seen too many Viking's games this year because Favre was getting killed behind that Oline much like Jay was earlier in the year with Chicago. We've seen in Denver what happens when Orton didnt have any time or didnt get rid of the ball fast enough. So no, Orton would stink it up in Minny with the line the way it is i have no doubt about it.

Northman
01-04-2011, 11:10 PM
Not necessarily. Orton has been through two teams now with miserably
porous O-lines. Contrary to the impression of some, he handled the rush
pretty well. His numbers show that.

I will admit, however, that it finally caught up with him. His shoulder was
injured in the SF game, then he incurred a rib injury on one side in the
St. Louis game, then the other side in the KC game. Of course, his high
ankle sprains are well documented, too. So he has taken a beating from the
pass rushes.

However, Minnesota has one thing the Broncos don't have, and Chicago
didn't have: Adrian Peterson. A good running game does wonders in slowing
down a pass rush.

Personally, I think Orton would be a glove-tight fit in Minnesota.

-----

Tell that to Bret Favre. :lol:

topscribe
01-04-2011, 11:16 PM
Tell that to Bret Favre. :lol:

Yes, I understand. Was Minny's O-line healthy this year, or were there some
injuries? That's not a leading question. It is an honest one because I haven't
kept track of that team this year . . .

-----

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 12:16 AM
Yes, I understand. Was Minny's O-line healthy this year, or were there some
injuries? That's not a leading question. It is an honest one because I haven't
kept track of that team this year . . .

-----

They were in tact untill the last few games.....
Hutch is REALLY old now, and the LT got beat like a red headed step child this week at Detroit.......
Harvin and his migranes dont help, PLUS..... Frazser is not going to be a great O mind there...

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:18 AM
They were in tact untill the last few games.....
Hutch is REALLY old now, and the LT got beat like a red headed step child this week at Detroit.......
Harvin and his migranes dont help, PLUS..... Frazser is not going to be a great O mind there...

Sounds as if their O-line is in shambles . . .

-----

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 12:39 AM
Sounds as if their O-line is in shambles . . .

-----

36 sacks AND 86 Qb hits......NOT good

40 and 64 for us this year.....

WARHORSE
01-05-2011, 02:18 AM
Did anyone watch Favre play? I did.


He hurt that team. He should have stayed retired.

This was the 'one too many' year. Everything hit the wall.

He held the ball......must have thought he was big ben at this point in his career. Part of it was no one was open, especially when Rice was out.


And since when did Brett ever check down? Orton will check down.

BroncoStud
01-05-2011, 03:48 AM
Not necessarily. Orton has been through two teams now with miserably
porous O-lines. Contrary to the impression of some, he handled the rush
pretty well. His numbers show that.

I will admit, however, that it finally caught up with him. His shoulder was
injured in the SF game, then he incurred a rib injury on one side in the
St. Louis game, then the other side in the KC game. Of course, his high
ankle sprains are well documented, too. So he has taken a beating from the
pass rushes.

However, Minnesota has one thing the Broncos don't have, and Chicago
didn't have: Adrian Peterson. A good running game does wonders in slowing
down a pass rush.

Personally, I think Orton would be a glove-tight fit in Minnesota.

-----

Oh, silly TOP, Chicago had Matt Forte, who had a very good rookie season for Orton. I didn't see Rex Grossman using that as an excuse when he took them to the Super Bowl after they benched Orton...

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 08:33 AM
Oh, silly TOP, Chicago had Matt Forte, who had a very good rookie season for Orton. I didn't see Rex Grossman using that as an excuse when he took them to the Super Bowl after they benched Orton...

Hmmmmmm
2008 Forte had 1238 yards
2010 Peterson had 1298 yards

Orton would be pedestrian in Minnesota

Oh and they were the #21 ranked scoring defense this year too, so THAT would not help out Kyle either

zbeg
01-05-2011, 08:43 AM
Hmmmmmm
2008 Forte had 1238 yards
2010 Peterson had 1298 yards

Orton would be pedestrian in Minnesota

Oh and they were the #21 ranked scoring defense this year too, so THAT would not help out Kyle either

#21 is a heck of a lot better than the 6th worst in NFL history, or whatever the Broncos were this year.

KCL
01-05-2011, 11:55 AM
I would like to see Orton as a backup to Cassel...lord knows we need one...doubt it would ever happen though.

BroncoStud
01-05-2011, 12:03 PM
Hmmmmmm
2008 Forte had 1238 yards
2010 Peterson had 1298 yards

Orton would be pedestrian in Minnesota

Oh and they were the #21 ranked scoring defense this year too, so THAT would not help out Kyle either

How DARE you insert logic to the Orton discussion. It seems that no matter how crap-tast-ic Orton plays there will always be a select few who feel the need to stand up for him on internet message boards... It's puzzling but not unprecedented.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:03 PM
Oh, silly TOP, Chicago had Matt Forte, who had a very good rookie season for Orton. I didn't see Rex Grossman using that as an excuse when he took them to the Super Bowl after they benched Orton...

No, Forte did not have a good season for Orton. Several others have had
that wrong, and I have had to correct them. They ranked #27 in the league
in YPA in rushing. That does not constitute a good season.

(You know, it's really ludicrous how people think Forte was so good that
year and at the same time think Moreno wasn't so good, when Forte
averaged 3.9 YPA, as opposed to Moreno's 3.8. But that's a different story.)

And Grossman did not "take" the Bears to the Super Bowl, unless you
consider a 54.6% comp and 73.9 QBR as "taking" a team anywhere. You
know as well as I (or if you don't you should bone up on it) that the Bears'
defense had more to do than anything else with "taking" the Bears to the
Super Bowl.

-----

Northman
01-05-2011, 12:07 PM
Hmmmmmm
2008 Forte had 1238 yards
2010 Peterson had 1298 yards

Orton would be pedestrian in Minnesota

Oh and they were the #21 ranked scoring defense this year too, so THAT would not help out Kyle either

You try to point out the obvious but some people just dont get it.

BigDaddyBronco
01-05-2011, 12:07 PM
No, Forte did not have a good season for Orton. Several others have had
that wrong, and I have had to correct them. They ranked #27 in the league
in YPA in rushing. That does not constitute a good season.

And Grossman did not "take" the Bears to the Super Bowl, unless you consider
a 54.6% comp and 73.9 QBR as "taking" a team anywhere. You know as well
as I (or if you don't you should bone up on it) that the Bears' defense had
more to do with "taking" the Bears to the Super Bowl than anything.

-----
And the Bears special teams.

Northman
01-05-2011, 12:09 PM
No, Forte did not have a good season for Orton. Several others have had
that wrong, and I have had to correct them. They ranked #27 in the league
in YPA in rushing. That does not constitute a good season.

And Grossman did not "take" the Bears to the Super Bowl, unless you consider
a 54.6% comp and 73.9 QBR as "taking" a team anywhere. You know as well
as I (or if you don't you should bone up on it) that the Bears' defense had
more to do with "taking" the Bears to the Super Bowl than anything.

-----

Well, at least your starting to come around. When i brought up this point a while back you kept telling me it was Orton's play that got them there. Im glad your finally coming around to the truth of it all.

Ravage!!!
01-05-2011, 12:14 PM
Well, at least your starting to come around. When i brought up this point a while back you kept telling me it was Orton's play that got them there. Im glad your finally coming around to the truth of it all.

We certainly see what has happened to Orton when he doesn't have a defense to score for him.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:18 PM
Well, at least your starting to come around. When i brought up this point a while back you kept telling me it was Orton's play that got them there. Im glad your finally coming around to the truth of it all.

No I never kept telling you that. I never told you that even once. You do
have a hard time with my writing, don't you?

-----

TXBRONC
01-05-2011, 12:20 PM
Forte didn't have good rookie season? :confused:

He had 316 carries for 1,238 yards rushing and 8 touchdowns and 63 receptions for 477 yards and 4 touchdowns. That works out to 1715 yards and 12 touchdown if that's not a good rookie season then what is? :shocked:

Northman
01-05-2011, 12:22 PM
No I never kept telling you that. I never told you that even once. You do
have a hard time with my writing, don't you?

-----

Nope, not at all.

BroncoStud
01-05-2011, 12:22 PM
No, Forte did not have a good season for Orton. Several others have had
that wrong, and I have had to correct them. They ranked #27 in the league
in YPA in rushing. That does not constitute a good season.

(You know, it's really ludicrous how people think Forte was so good that
year and at the same time think Moreno wasn't so good, when Forte
averaged 3.9 YPA, as opposed to Moreno's 3.8. But that's a different story.)

And Grossman did not "take" the Bears to the Super Bowl, unless you
consider a 54.6% comp and 73.9 QBR as "taking" a team anywhere. You
know as well as I (or if you don't you should bone up on it) that the Bears'
defense had more to do than anything else with "taking" the Bears to the
Super Bowl.

-----

TOP, don't give me that non-sense. Forte averaged almost 4 YPC (3.9 - better than Ryan Grant, Tomlinson, Jamal Lewis and many others that season, just behind guys like Brian Westbrook), had 1277 yards rushing, and another 477 receiving, 12 total TDs, and only fumbled 1 time. He had a damn good season. Spin it how you want, Orton had a good running game squarely behind him and he still stunk it up.

You're wasting your time trying to tell us that Orton was good and Forte was not. Forte is still on that roster going into the playoffs and Orton was sent packing.

In 2008 Orton was the 25th highest rated passer... In 2006, Grossman threw for more yards, more TDs, and much higher yards per completion than Orton did at anytime as a Bear, plus he made it to the Super bowl. In 2005, Orton's rookie season, he had an amazing 59 passer rating lol... Then, in 2007, Orton couldn't sniff the field because Lovie went with Griese and Grossman instead.

Northman
01-05-2011, 12:22 PM
We certainly see what has happened to Orton when he doesn't have a defense to score for him.

But but, he was hurt. :lol:

Ravage!!!
01-05-2011, 12:31 PM
But but, he was hurt. :lol:

How odd.

Was it his ankle, rib, or vagina that time?

TXBRONC
01-05-2011, 12:32 PM
How odd.

Was it his ankle, rib, or vagina that time?

Probably his ankles.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:40 PM
TOP, don't give me that non-sense. Forte averaged almost 4 YPC (3.9 - better than Ryan Grant, Tomlinson, Jamal Lewis and many others that season, just behind guys like Brian Westbrook), had 1277 yards rushing, and another 477 receiving, 12 total TDs, and only fumbled 1 time. He had a damn good season. Spin it how you want, Orton had a good running game squarely behind him and he still stunk it up.

You're wasting your time trying to tell us that Orton was good and Forte was not. Forte is still on that roster going into the playoffs and Orton was sent packing.

I saw several of those games. Forte did not have a "damn good season" as
a runner. (The issue is the running game. How Forte did as a receiver is
not the issue.) He had a good season for a rookie, but he had a rookie's
season. And he did not strike any special fear into defenses as a runner
that year.

And my comment was not about Orton. I mentioned Forte and Grossman, in
response to your inaccuracies about them. Stop trying to turn it into
another of your Orton debates. I'm not into that. You were historically
incorrect, so I commented specifically on that.

-----

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Nope, not at all.

You certainly must. I would rather believe that than to believe you
intentionally twist what I say.

-----

Ravage!!!
01-05-2011, 12:43 PM
1700 total yards and 12 TDs is a damn good season. What did our RB have?

Northman
01-05-2011, 12:44 PM
You certainly must. I would rather believe that than to believe you
intentionally twist what I say.

-----

Oh, i dont twist what you say. I just know you will continue to try and bang the square peg into the round hole before admitting you were wrong about anything Orton. But, carry on mate.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:45 PM
1700 total yards and 12 TDs is a damn good season. What did our RB have?

In 2008, the year in question, the Broncos were #3 in the league in rushing,
at 4.8 YPA. The issue is rushing, not the RB's total offense.

Again, the issue is the running game.

-----

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:47 PM
Oh, i dont twist what you say. I just know you will continue to try and bang the square peg into the round hole before admitting you were wrong about anything Orton. But, carry on mate.

And you try to make it look like I'm debating about Orton. What I responded
to were comments about Forte and Grossman. You are the one talking about
Orton here. Not me.

-----

Ravage!!!
01-05-2011, 12:49 PM
In 2008, the year in question, the Broncos were #3 in the league in rushing,
at 4.8 YPA. The issue is rushing, not the RB's total offense.

Again, the issue is the running game.

-----

So, forget the body of the work, and just look at the parts. 1700 total yards and 12 TDs don't count, because they came at 3.9 yrds at a time instead of something bigger. Mmmmm k.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 12:51 PM
So, forget the body of the work, and just look at the parts. 1700 total yards and 12 TDs don't count, because they came at 3.9 yrds at a time instead of something bigger. Mmmmm k.

The issue was the running game. The running game. The running game. The
running game. The running game. That was what the issue was. The running
game.

If you want to evaluate an all around performance, start a thread on it. The
issue I was discussing was the running game. The poster mentioned the
running game, and I responded to him about the running game.

Did I mention the issue is about the running game?

------

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 12:52 PM
In 2008, the year in question, the Broncos were #3 in the league in rushing,
at 4.8 YPA. The issue is rushing, not the RB's total offense.

Again, the issue is the running game.

-----

2008-Denver Bronco rushing-

28th in attempts
So yeah... ONLY 4 teams ran less times than we did in 2008.

Northman
01-05-2011, 01:01 PM
And you try to make it look like I'm debating about Orton. What I responded
to were comments about Forte and Grossman. You are the one talking about
Orton here. Not me.

-----

Em no, im not saying your debating Orton. Im just clarifying an old debate we had when you brought up the defense. When i did the same thing a few months back you gave me a rash of shit saying Orton was the reason they won those games when i said it was the defense. Im just clearing up some old discussions. But, feel free to continue on about Grossman and Forte because i feel vindicated here. Cheerio!

topscribe
01-05-2011, 01:03 PM
Em no, im not saying your debating Orton. Im just clarifying an old debate we had when you brought up the defense. When i did the same thing a few months back you gave me a rash of shit saying Orton was the reason they won those games when i said it was the defense. Im just clearing up some old discussions. But, feel free to continue on about Grossman and Forte because i feel vindicated here. Cheerio!

So continue to lie about what I said. You've done it before, and you likely will
do it again. Cheerio!

-----

topscribe
01-05-2011, 01:06 PM
I have always maintained that one player does not win games, and one player
does not lose games. I have never deviated from that. If there is one thing
I have ever stressed on any of these boards, it is that.

-----

vandammage13
01-05-2011, 01:10 PM
I have always maintained that one player does not win games, and one player
does not lose games. I have never deviated from that. If there is one thing
I have ever stressed on any of these boards, it is that.

-----

I've been reading these posts and I must jump in and say that you have unequivically lost this debate, Top.

Did the Bears ride their defense to the superbowl with Grossman?...Yeah, I don't think many would argue that Grossman led them there. But when just one variable changed (insert Orton, exit Grossman) they couldn't even make the playoffs. Why was that?

Northman
01-05-2011, 01:10 PM
So continue to lie about what I said. You've done it before, and you likely will
do it again. Cheerio!

-----


Come on old man, just admit you were wrong. :D

BroncoStud
01-05-2011, 01:17 PM
I saw several of those games. Forte did not have a "damn good season" as
a runner. (The issue is the running game. How Forte did as a receiver is
not the issue.) He had a good season for a rookie, but he had a rookie's
season. And he did not strike any special fear into defenses as a runner
that year.

And my comment was not about Orton. I mentioned Forte and Grossman, in
response to your inaccuracies about them. Stop trying to turn it into
another of your Orton debates. I'm not into that. You were historically
incorrect, so I commented specifically on that.

-----

So because you "watched some games" and determined that Forte didn't have a good season - LOL... Ok, it's hard to argue with that logic... :lol:

I guess the NFL needs to stop keeping stats and voting for the Pro Bowl, just have TOP watch a few games each year and he will set them all straight. :elefant:

BroncoNut
01-05-2011, 01:22 PM
getting a 2nd round pick would be great...

but in all honesty i would take a 4th or a 5th with a 7th

shhhh.. like beef says. loose lips sink ships

BroncoNut
01-05-2011, 01:24 PM
oh brother. Top and North at it again. Let's just schedule a suspended cage match between you 2 at the next tailgate and get this shit behind us

topscribe
01-05-2011, 01:27 PM
So because you "watched some games" and determined that Forte didn't have a good season - LOL... Ok, it's hard to argue with that logic... :lol:

I guess the NFL needs to stop keeping stats and voting for the Pro Bowl, just have TOP watch a few games each year and he will set them all straight. :elefant:

You know, I really don't know who the hell you are, and I don't care. But, in
your disingenuous way, you ignored that I qualified what I said by adding, "He
[Forte] had a good season for a rookie." And even though I also qualified it by
saying I was talking about his running game (how could I have made that
more clear?), you still try to make it look as if I was talking about his
performance all around.

I don't mind discussing an issue, but I take exception to your misrepresentations
of my posts. If you are going to respond to me, do not twist what I say.

-----

topscribe
01-05-2011, 01:32 PM
oh brother. Top and North at it again. Let's just schedule a suspended cage match between you 2 at the next tailgate and get this shit behind us

There is no "getting into it." All one has to do to keep from crossing my path
is to represent accurately what I said and not twist it around. That is all they
have to do, and we'll get along just fine. :whoknows:

-----

Ravage!!!
01-05-2011, 01:35 PM
How is it that you keep saying "its about the running game" and ignore the 1700+ yrds by the RB and 12 TDs by the RB, and say it wasn't a good running game? I keep hearing "its about the running game the running game".. and I could SWEAR the only thing I've talked about is the RB.. thus the running game.

HOw is it that I"m being corrected, that its the "running game." Now if you want to say that the 1200+yrsds and rushing TDs shouldn't be considered a good running game.. fine. But the RB catching screen passes and swing passes, basically are the running game because the blocking is the same.

Whatever. 1200+ yrds rushing is a fine running game.

BroncoNut
01-05-2011, 01:36 PM
I think Orton brings some good things. He might be done in Denver, but I refuse to barbecue him for the last few games. that's just inane.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 01:40 PM
I think Orton brings some good things. He might be done in Denver, but I refuse to barbecue him for the last few games. that's just inane.

I do hold it against Orton - and the HC - for not recognizing he was hurting
the team by trying to play with injuries so severe he could no longer throw
the ball effectively. I have to say that.

But that has nothing to do - as you implied, I think - with the skills he
displayed before he was hurt. Good for you that you are able to distinguish
how he did before, as opposed to after . . .

-----

Northman
01-05-2011, 01:45 PM
I think Orton brings some good things. He might be done in Denver, but I refuse to barbecue him for the last few games. that's just inane.

Most people arent doing that. But he is average and wasnt the main reason Chicago won while he was there unlike what some individual has tried to paint it. Orton is like Plummer, a good soldier but not a hero. :salute:

BroncoNut
01-05-2011, 01:46 PM
I do hold it against Orton - and the HC - for not recognizing he was hurting
the team by trying to play with injuries so severe he could no longer throw
the ball effectively. I have to say that.

But that has nothing to do - as you implied, I think - with the skills he
displayed before he was hurt. Good for you that you are able to distinguish
how he did before, as opposed to after . . .

-----

I don't know the extent of his shoulder injury, and if he was playing hurt, I sure wish he took the higher road for the team, so I am with you there. I wasnt' attributing his poor performance as of late to the shoulder injury. I just don't think he's an NFL leader in performance or character. He does not have the tools and it began to show more as the season wound down.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 01:54 PM
I don't know the extent of his shoulder injury, and if he was playing hurt, I sure wish he took the higher road for the team, so I am with you there. I wasnt' attributing his poor performance as of late to the shoulder injury. I just don't think he's an NFL leader in performance or character. He does not have the tools and it began to show more as the season wound down.

Ironically, I don't think the shoulder injury is what did it. His rib injuries were
far more debilitating. I think he could throw through the pain in his shoulder
until his ribs were injured in the St. Louis game.

As his 4th quarter performance against the Rams demonstrated, he continued
to play effectively through that game. But, as so often happens, his body
tightened up after the game. The ribs are an awful place to hurt, when the
pain is severe. As I previously mentioned, it becomes difficult even to
breathe, let alone go through the motions of throw a hard pass.

Taking Orton out when they did was a bad time to do it. Not that they
shouldn't have - they certainly should have. But they should have done it
two games before that, IMO . . .

-----

BroncoStud
01-05-2011, 02:04 PM
I do hold it against Orton - and the HC - for not recognizing he was hurting
the team by trying to play with injuries so severe he could no longer throw
the ball effectively. I have to say that.

But that has nothing to do - as you implied, I think - with the skills he
displayed before he was hurt. Good for you that you are able to distinguish
how he did before, as opposed to after . . .

-----

He was hurt in the 4th quarter of the Arizona game... He sucked long before that... Nice try, must be that high ankle sprain that has tormented him during bad games for his NFL career...

topscribe
01-05-2011, 02:06 PM
He was hurt in the 4th quarter of the Arizona game... He sucked long before that... Nice try, must be that high ankle sprain that has tormented him during bad games for his NFL career...

:coffee:

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TXBRONC
01-05-2011, 02:09 PM
How is it that you keep saying "its about the running game" and ignore the 1700+ yrds by the RB and 12 TDs by the RB, and say it wasn't a good running game? I keep hearing "its about the running game the running game".. and I could SWEAR the only thing I've talked about is the RB.. thus the running game.

HOw is it that I"m being corrected, that its the "running game." Now if you want to say that the 1200+yrsds and rushing TDs shouldn't be considered a good running game.. fine. But the RB catching screen passes and swing passes, basically are the running game because the blocking is the same.

Whatever. 1200+ yrds rushing is a fine running game.

Some how and I'm sure how that is, but 1,238 yards rushing and 8 touchdowns and 316 carries is not good season. I think in the minds of most people that's a good season running the ball.

DenBronx
01-05-2011, 02:15 PM
So yeah, how about that 2nd round pick for Orton guys?

topscribe
01-05-2011, 02:16 PM
I don't know how this got to be so exclusively about Forte. I said he had a
good season for a rookie.

The point is, the Bears averaged 3.9 yards a carry every time they ran the
ball. That is a very pedestrian number, and it ranked #27 in the league. That
is not going to throw fear into any defense. By contrast, even though Denver
went through seven RBs during that season (2008), they still averaged 4.8
yards per carry, good for #3 in the league.

The issue was the running game, not how much of a star Forte is . . .


EDIT: I just saw DenBronx' post, and I think it is a very good idea. :focus:

-----

vandammage13
01-05-2011, 02:16 PM
Enough with the injury excuses for Orton already, Top. Ankles, ribs, finger, shoulder....whatever....always an excuse.

TXBRONC
01-05-2011, 02:19 PM
So yeah, how about that 2nd round pick for Orton guys?

I'll probably get laughed at or flamed for this but I think it would be almost better to get two middle round picks instead of just one second round pick.

BroncoStud
01-05-2011, 02:31 PM
I don't know how this got to be so exclusively about Forte. I said he had a
good season for a rookie.

The point is, the Bears averaged 3.9 yards a carry every time they ran the
ball. That is a very pedestrian number, and it ranked #27 in the league. That
is not going to throw fear into any defense. By contrast, even though Denver
went through seven RBs during that season (2008), they still averaged 4.8
yards per carry, good for #3 in the league.

The issue was the running game, not how much of a star Forte is . . .


EDIT: I just saw DenBronx' post, and I think it is a very good idea. :focus:

-----

The Bears ranked 24th in rushing that season, Forte accounted for almost 1300 of their 1700 yards... On top of that he accounted for almost 500 of Orton's 2900 yards passing, or more than 1/6th. He had a fine season and he helped Orton a whole lot more than he hurt him.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 02:32 PM
The Bears ranked 24th in rushing that season, Forte accounted for almost 1300 of their 1700 yards... On top of that he accounted for almost 500 of Orton's 2900 yards passing, or more than 1/6th. He had a fine season and he helped Orton a whole lot more than he hurt him.

Point noted. Now . . .


:focus:


-----

BroncoStud
01-05-2011, 02:47 PM
Point noted. Now . . .


:focus:


-----

Ok, back to topic, yes, if we can get a 2nd rounder for Orton that would be great. I think a 3rd would be great as well. Either one works for me.

T.K.O.
01-05-2011, 02:52 PM
i think it would be dumb to take anything less than a 2nd for orton....in fact seeing how we have the #2 overall and two 2nd's already, it may be smarter to just keep him and see how Tebow plays in the first part of the season.
hell he could get hurt playing soccer in the offseason the way the broncos luck has been lately.
orton is under contract and could keep us competitive if we fix the D and get a running game going.:salute:

topscribe
01-05-2011, 02:59 PM
i think it would be dumb to take anything less than a 2nd for orton....in fact seeing how we have the #2 overall and two 2nd's already, it may be smarter to just keep him and see how Tebow plays in the first part of the season.
hell he could get hurt playing soccer in the offseason the way the broncos luck has been lately.
orton is under contract and could keep us competitive if we fix the D and get a running game going.:salute:

A 2nd is the price. Firm. Non-negotiable. If we don't get a 2nd, he is going nowhere.

That would be my stand, anyway . . .

-----

underrated29
01-05-2011, 03:03 PM
A 2nd is the price. Firm. Non-negotiable. If we don't get a 2nd, he is going nowhere.

That would be my stand, anyway . . .

-----



Id do it for a mid to early 3rd as well. Anything later than that and you are right. He should stay.

TXBRONC
01-05-2011, 03:08 PM
i think it would be dumb to take anything less than a 2nd for orton....in fact seeing how we have the #2 overall and two 2nd's already, it may be smarter to just keep him and see how Tebow plays in the first part of the season.
hell he could get hurt playing soccer in the offseason the way the broncos luck has been lately.
orton is under contract and could keep us competitive if we fix the D and get a running game going.:salute:

Just one question. How does Orton keep us competitive if he's the back up quarterback? Beisides that, he says he wants to start.

BroncoNut
01-05-2011, 03:13 PM
Just one question. How does Orton keep us competitive if he's the back up quarterback? Beisides that, he says he wants to start.

I think what Kyle was getting at is that if Tebow becomes inactive and Orton does need to step in, he would keep us competitive at the position if we are sound in our running game and on defense.

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 03:14 PM
Just one question. How does Orton keep us competitive if he's the back up quarterback? Beisides that, he says he wants to start.

Also... WHile sitting upon the bench, does Kyle help oout Tebow? I think he does not help in the least bit.

Every indication so far since Kyle's benching has shown his poor attitude in taking the back seat.

BroncoNut
01-05-2011, 03:16 PM
Also... WHile sitting upon the bench, does Kyle help oout Tebow? I think he does not help in the least bit.

Every indication so far since Kyle's benching has shown his poor attitude in taking the back seat.

in the words of Vince Lombardi, "show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"

TXBRONC
01-05-2011, 03:21 PM
Also... WHile sitting upon the bench, does Kyle help oout Tebow? I think he does not help in the least bit.

Every indication so far since Kyle's benching has shown his poor attitude in taking the back seat.

After what I've read recently it doesn't sound like it would be good idea to keep him around a the 2nd string quarterback.

Cugel
01-05-2011, 03:32 PM
Not necessarily. Orton has been through two teams now with miserably
porous O-lines. Contrary to the impression of some, he handled the rush
pretty well. His numbers show that.

I will admit, however, that it finally caught up with him. His shoulder was
injured in the SF game, then he incurred a rib injury on one side in the
St. Louis game, then the other side in the KC game. Of course, his high
ankle sprains are well documented, too. So he has taken a beating from the
pass rushes.

However, Minnesota has one thing the Broncos don't have, and Chicago
didn't have: Adrian Peterson. A good running game does wonders in slowing
down a pass rush.

Personally, I think Orton would be a glove-tight fit in Minnesota.-----

ORTON PLUSES:

1. Consummate professional. Took the drafting of Tebow, the porous OL, lack of running game, losing Brandon Marshall in stride. Didn't whine took the heat and the bruises. No off-field issues: you won't see him getting sued for "sexting" and harassing some team spokesmodel or raping some drunk chick in the womens' room of some night-club. Mentally tough in the face of a relentlessly bad season where he received much of the blame for the team's losing.

I hated him when he came here and called him "captain Neckbeard."

I salute him as he leaves! :salute:

2. Good pocket passer. Extremely accurate out to 15 yards. Good short passing game. Stepped and made some long throws too although he doesn't have a cannon for an arm like Cutler.

3. System QB. Does what he's told and fits into the system. Doesn't make a lot of risky throws. Good TD/INT ratio. Goes through his progressions and gets rid of the ball quickly to outlet WR when rushed.

4. Surprisingly elusive for guy with limited athleticism.


NEGATIVES:

1. Not too big and limited athletic skills. Slow. Will not make plays with his feet very often.

2. Is NOT a great or energetic team leader. Tebow fired up the team, you could see the difference like night and day.

3. Limited arm strength in long passing game.

4. NOT a franchise QB you can build around.

5. Needs a strong pass-blocking OL because he's not that strong or mobile.

If you put him on a team with a very STRONG defense, a good OL and good RBs with some decent WRs to throw to and he can be very successful.

In short, he's as good as your team, but he is NOT the type of QB to carry a bad team on his back and he's not a great leader to rally the team when things turn south.

For a team with the right ingredients, Orton can be quite good though. He's rather like Brian Griese in that respect -- just as I insisted (in the face of withering criticism) when he first arrived. Same strengths and same limitations. :coffee:

Cugel
01-05-2011, 03:42 PM
i think it would be dumb to take anything less than a 2nd for orton....in fact seeing how we have the #2 overall and two 2nd's already, it may be smarter to just keep him and see how Tebow plays in the first part of the season.
hell he could get hurt playing soccer in the offseason the way the broncos luck has been lately.
orton is under contract and could keep us competitive if we fix the D and get a running game going.:salute:

Could your screen-name have anything to do with your insistence on keeping Kyle Orton? :laugh:

DenBronx
01-05-2011, 03:44 PM
I'll probably get laughed at or flamed for this but I think it would be almost better to get two middle round picks instead of just one second round pick.

like a 3rd and a 4th? or what about a 3rd and a player?

as long as its for this years draft i think that would be fair for both sides.


orton has played well enough to bring in decent value for us.

Ravage!!!
01-05-2011, 03:45 PM
i think it would be dumb to take anything less than a 2nd for orton....in fact seeing how we have the #2 overall and two 2nd's already, it may be smarter to just keep him and see how Tebow plays in the first part of the season.
hell he could get hurt playing soccer in the offseason the way the broncos luck has been lately.
orton is under contract and could keep us competitive if we fix the D and get a running game going.:salute:

Orton wants to be a starter. Nothing wrong with wanting that, in fact I prefer it as a player on the team. But no team keeps the former incumbent to back up the new guy brought in to replace him. Just doesn't happen.

We aren't going to keep him as Tebow's back-up. Orton doesn't want to be the back up in Denver (he would be ok being able to compete for the starting job somewhere else, just not here where he knows he doesn't really stand a chance against the fan-favorite 1st round pick), and Denver doesn't want a QB controversy... and it would start a controversy. Every question during the OTCs, offseason, and pre-season would be questioning on how each QB is doing, who's the lead man, and how do they feel about it. Every beat writer would be watching practices and comparing who's playing better atm. When Tebow has bad games (and he will have bad games, as he's already shown) throwing the ball, then there will be questioning rising as to "why didn't the coach bring in Orton when Tebow couldn't get it done?" You would have Orton on the sidelines waiting for his chance to get back in, and if he comes in because of injury or whatevers, and he plays well.... more problems.

The players on the team aren't buying into the hype that the fans have, because they see the small mistakes day in and day out, and if they feel that Orton gives them a better chance to win because of his throwing or reading or whatevers.. that could cause some problems. THey (the players) don't care who's starting, what his name is, how many fans wear old college jerseys's with his name on it. They just want to win. They don't care if you spent your money on a #15 jersey, or came to Denver because you watched Florida while in High School.

The new QB shouldn't feel the eyes of the former incumbent on the back of his head at every mistake.

This is why teams don't keep them around. Orton most probably will not bring a 2nd (might though), but will absolutely not be a Bronco next year.

TXBRONC
01-05-2011, 03:46 PM
like a 3rd and a 4th? or what about a 3rd and a player?

as long as its for this years draft i think that would be fair for both sides.


orton has played well enough to bring in decent value for us.

A pick and player that sound alright depending on who we would get in exchange.

DenBronx
01-05-2011, 03:47 PM
Just one question. How does Orton keep us competitive if he's the back up quarterback? Beisides that, he says he wants to start.

He would keep us competitive by trading him. He does us no good riding the bench and he also has no interest in helping Tebow grow as a QB. So by trading him we gain on defense and that would help make us competitive.

Ravage!!!
01-05-2011, 03:50 PM
Just one question. How does Orton keep us competitive if he's the back up quarterback?

Well, he didn't keep us competitive when he was starting. The Bears went to the Super Bowl when Orton was sitting the bench in Chicago. Maybe thats the secret! :beer:

TXBRONC
01-05-2011, 03:55 PM
He would keep us competitive by trading him. He does us no good riding the bench and he also has no interest in helping Tebow grow as a QB. So by trading him we gain on defense and that would help make us competitive.

That's the way I would that it would work out. The only problem is finding a competent back up quarterback.

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 03:57 PM
For teams that do have:
"A great defense"
"A good running game"
"Good receivers"..........

They also need QB's who can "Win the close games"...

Flacco, Ryan, Cutler, Rodgers, Rothlesberger...... ALL this year have multiple 4th quarter comeback wins.

Tell me ONE time this year Orton took the team and rode down the field... THATS what NFL coaches will give up for a 2nd round pick

topscribe
01-05-2011, 04:52 PM
From Elway's presser today, one would seem to get the impression that the
only people who are discussing an Orton trade are the people on this board.
Elway indicated that any personnel decisions, including that involving Orton,
would be discussed among him, Xanders, and the new HC. He even would not
commit whether Tebow would start next year, saying he doesn't yet know
whether Tebow is ready to start.

That's what I got out of it, anyway . . .

-----

zbeg
01-05-2011, 05:07 PM
For teams that do have:
"A great defense"
"A good running game"
"Good receivers"..........

They also need QB's who can "Win the close games"...

Flacco, Ryan, Cutler, Rodgers, Rothlesberger...... ALL this year have multiple 4th quarter comeback wins.

Tell me ONE time this year Orton took the team and rode down the field... THATS what NFL coaches will give up for a 2nd round pick

How many games did the Broncos blow the game in the second half by allowing multiple TDs on defense, making it impossible to mount a comeback?

A team coming back from a deficit also requires the defense to stop giving up points, something the Denver defense never did. You can't say "but Orton never led us to a comeback win!" while ignoring the fact that the defenses made this essentially impossible to accomplish in several of those potential comeback games.

underrated29
01-05-2011, 05:14 PM
well, last year against the cowboys, and the patriots I clearly remember Kyle bringing us back from behind and winning the game.

underrated29
01-05-2011, 05:16 PM
From Elway's presser today, one would seem to get the impression that the
only people who are discussing an Orton trade are the people on this board.
Elway indicated that any personnel decisions, including that involving Orton,
would be discussed among him, Xanders, and the new HC. He even would not
commit whether Tebow would start next year, saying he doesn't yet know
whether Tebow is ready to start.

That's what I got out of it, anyway . . .

-----

I get this feeling that elway does not think Tebow will be a good QB.. Furthermore I fear elway is going to try to make tebow a pocket passer.


Sure- we must refine tebows skills but we can not make him into something he is not, otherwise he will fail and so will we.

Lancane
01-05-2011, 05:16 PM
From Elway's presser today, one would seem to get the impression that the
only people who are discussing an Orton trade are the people on this board.
Elway indicated that any personnel decisions, including that involving Orton,
would be discussed among him, Xanders, and the new HC. He even would not
commit whether Tebow would start next year, saying he doesn't yet know
whether Tebow is ready to start.

That's what I got out of it, anyway . . .

-----

That and that they are not sold on Tebow, as a person and leader that has Bronco qualities...yes. But as to whether or not he's the future...not so much. "He's a darn good player, we need him to be a darn good quarterback".

I think we could see an open competition for the quarterback position come training camp, if we have a training camp.

Lancane
01-05-2011, 05:19 PM
I get this feeling that elway does not think Tebow will be a good QB.. Furthermore I fear elway is going to try to make tebow a pocket passer.


Sure- we must refine tebows skills but we can not make him into something he is not, otherwise he will fail and so will we.

Pocket passing quarterbacks are far more successful in the NFL then their mobile counterparts. I think Elway likes Tebow, but if he can't be that quarterback the team needs, I don't think he'd be hesitant in drafting another kid or trading away Tebow.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 05:24 PM
I get this feeling that elway does not think Tebow will be a good QB.. Furthermore I fear elway is going to try to make tebow a pocket passer.

Sure- we must refine tebows skills but we can not make him into something he is not, otherwise he will fail and so will we.

I really didn't get that impression from Elway. He had glowing comments
about Tebow's attributes. What I get out of it was that Elway felt Tebow
had to put them all together and work to become a good quarterback. But
I didn't get any negative vibes toward Tebow from Elway.

Regarding your concerns about making Tebow a pocket passer: Tebow had
better become a decent pocket passer, or he will not achieve what he
wants to in the NFL. The Option doesn't work in the NFL . . .



That and that they are not sold on Tebow, as a person and leader that has Bronco qualities...yes. But as to whether or not he's the future...not so much. "He's a darn good player, we need him to be a darn good quarterback".

I think we could see an open competition for the quarterback position come training camp, if we have a training camp.

I think Elway is just trying to keep an open mind about it all. He had glowing
comments about both Tebow and Orton, which means he won't commit.
Furthermore, what I got out of it was who would start and who would not
would be up to the HC. Which is the way it should be . . .

-----

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 05:27 PM
How many games did the Broncos blow the game in the second half by allowing multiple TDs on defense, making it impossible to mount a comeback?

A team coming back from a deficit also requires the defense to stop giving up points, something the Denver defense never did. You can't say "but Orton never led us to a comeback win!" while ignoring the fact that the defenses made this essentially impossible to accomplish in several of those potential comeback games.

In the Jacksonville, Jets, San Fran, St Louis AND KCII games we had a chance to win them with the ball in the 4th quarter

right there would be the difference between 4-12 and 9-7 season.....

Ravage!!!
01-05-2011, 06:08 PM
I'm betting we aren't the only people talking about an Orton trade.

slim
01-05-2011, 06:12 PM
I was listening to local sports talk on the drive in. Orton's name was mentioned several times.

Does AZ have a 2nd round pick?

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 06:48 PM
I was listening to local sports talk on the drive in. Orton's name was mentioned several times.

Does AZ have a 2nd round pick?

You think that after the performance Kyle put on in Arizona they would be like..."YEAH!!!!! lets give a 2nd for THAT guy"....

Cugel
01-05-2011, 06:57 PM
That's the way I would that it would work out. The only problem is finding a competent back up quarterback.

There are plenty of backup QBs floating around looking for jobs! The real problem is to find a Franchise QB. We just get rid of McDaniels dead-wood (the utterly USELESS Brady Quinn) and get a decent backup.

After all, Orton was a 4th round pick! There are a LOT of guys like that -- not good enough for a team to build around, but good enough to start a few games due to injury.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 06:57 PM
You think that after the performance Kyle put on in Arizona they would be like..."YEAH!!!!! lets give a 2nd for THAT guy"....

Yes. You see, those guys know what they're talking about, so they would
likely understand why Orton was all the sudden playing so poorly after putting
up the numbers he did. They aren't no-nothing fans whose expertise comes
by sitting on the couch with beer in hand, screaming at the TV . . .

-----

topscribe
01-05-2011, 06:58 PM
There are plenty of backup QBs floating around looking for jobs! The real problem is to find a Franchise QB. We just get rid of McDaniels dead-wood (the utterly USELESS Brady Quinn) and get a decent backup.

After all, Orton was a 4th round pick! There are a LOT of guys like that -- not good enough for a team to build around, but good enough to start a few games due to injury.

Yeah, maybe they can get Tom Brady for backup.

He was drafted in the 6th round . . . :coffee:

-----

Cugel
01-05-2011, 06:59 PM
How many of you actually believe that Orton will fetch a 2nd round pick?

NOT -- "I think he's worth a 2nd rounder".

How many of you are willing to predict that the Broncos will receive a 2nd round pick as compensation for trading Orton?

I'm betting on a 3rd myself. :coffee:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-05-2011, 07:02 PM
Well, Tennessee has just announced that they'll be "moving on without Vince Young" so that could be a possible landing spot.

I'd also figure that Fisher will probably stick around, now.

Lancane
01-05-2011, 07:03 PM
How many of you actually believe that Orton will fetch a 2nd round pick?

NOT -- "I think he's worth a 2nd rounder".

How many of you are willing to predict that the Broncos will receive a 2nd round pick as compensation for trading Orton?

I'm betting on a 3rd myself. :coffee:

I'll take a 5th round pick from Minnesota plus another in the 2012 NFL Draft.

Cugel
01-05-2011, 07:04 PM
Yeah, maybe they can get Tom Brady for backup.

He was drafted in the 6th round . . . :coffee:-----

This might be the most irrelevant thing you have ever posted TOP! What has Tom Brady got to do with anything?

My only point is that Orton was a guy who was a 4th round pick in Chicago. He was given a chance to start there after Rex Grossman flamed and burned out. And he failed.

The Bears wanted to get rid of him and threw him in as an afterthought in the Cutler trade.

There are guys like that floating around the league!

Orton would make a perfectly good backup right now, except that after starting for 2 years he doesn't WANT to go back to being a backup. He wants to go somewhere where he can compete for a starting job or be GIVEN a starting job.

He can probably find one. He's better than a lot of starting QBs in the league right now. At least he'll do what he's told, will work within the system, make sound decisions (most of the time) and won't freelance and throw a bunch of picks. If there's a rush, he'll throw the ball quickly to the outlet WR or throw it away. He won't stand back there, get hit and cough up the ball a lot.

In short, he's useful, but he'll never win a SB unless the team has a defense like the '85 Bears or 2000 Ravens. :coffee:

Hence he's worth some kind of pick, probably just not a 2nd rounder.

Lancane
01-05-2011, 07:05 PM
Well, Tennessee has just announced that they'll be "moving on without Vince Young" so that could be a possible landing spot.

I'd also figure that Fisher will probably stick around, now.

They did that to keep Fisher Horse, otherwise they would have kept Young. So Tennessee will be making a play for a quarterback either in free agency or the draft, if not both.

Cugel
01-05-2011, 07:06 PM
I'll take a 5th round pick from Minnesota plus another in the 2012 NFL Draft.

I take it your prediction is: Minnesota's 5th round in 2011, plus a pick to be named later in 2012.

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 07:08 PM
This might be the most irrelevant thing you have ever posted TOP! What has Tom Brady got to do with anything?

My only point is that Orton was a guy who was a 4th round pick in Chicago. He was given a chance to start there after Rex Grossman flamed and burned out. And he failed.

The Bears wanted to get rid of him and threw him in as an afterthought in the Cutler trade.

There are guys like that floating around the league!

Orton would make a perfectly good backup right now, except that after starting for 2 years he doesn't WANT to go back to being a backup. He wants to go somewhere where he can compete for a starting job or be GIVEN a starting job.

He can probably find one. He's better than a lot of starting QBs in the league right now. At least he'll do what he's told, will work within the system, make sound decisions (most of the time) and won't freelance and throw a bunch of picks. If there's a rush, he'll throw the ball quickly to the outlet WR or throw it away. He won't stand back there, get hit and cough up the ball a lot.

In short, he's useful, but he'll never win a SB unless the team has a defense like the '85 Bears or 2000 Ravens. :coffee:

Hence he's worth some kind of pick, probably just not a 2nd rounder.

Uh yeah..... Derek Anderson ( Pro Bowl 2007) will make the Cardinals look at Orton with a VERY close eye...

You know a Pro Bowl qb versus one who went 11-18 over two years here...

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 07:11 PM
Yeah, maybe they can get Tom Brady for backup.

He was drafted in the 6th round . . . :coffee:

-----

Tony Romo was undrafted....... "NEVER draft a qb!!!!!"

But.... wasn't Orton "About to win the Heisman before he got injured"????

WTF..... Its "He's about to do ANYTHING..then he got injured".....

Fragile.... just fragile I guess

HORSEPOWER 56
01-05-2011, 07:22 PM
They did that to keep Fisher Horse, otherwise they would have kept Young. So Tennessee will be making a play for a quarterback either in free agency or the draft, if not both.

Yep. They decided they'd rather have Fisher than Young... I don't blame them.

The question now becomes, who is their QB? I'm pretty sure that they don't want Kerry Collins to be the guy under center full time next year. Enter Kyle. He can go to a team with a good running game and good defense that has decent young WRs where his conservative style won't be looked at negatively and he can learn from Heimerdinger.

Perfect fit for both parties, IMO. Hell, he can even have Kenny Britt or Randy Moss to lock on to...

So, the question is, how does Tennessee feel about Kyle? He did call Courtland Finnegan "cheap". They might have to fistfight to settle things if Orton goes there... :lol:

bcbronc
01-05-2011, 07:22 PM
Orton for VY and a mid to late pick...I'd do it.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

HORSEPOWER 56
01-05-2011, 07:26 PM
Orton for VY and a mid to late pick...I'd do it.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Easy, Killer...

I didn't say I wanted Young. I want Tennessee to give us a draft pick for Orton.

Cugel
01-05-2011, 07:29 PM
Uh yeah..... Derek Anderson ( Pro Bowl 2007) will make the Cardinals look at Orton with a VERY close eye...

You know a Pro Bowl qb versus one who went 11-18 over two years here...

I don't know what you're trying to say. :coffee:

Arizona needs a Franchise QB. They thought they had drafted one in Matt Leinart, but he's sucked every time he was sent in and is clearly not the answer.

Hence, it's back to the drawing board. They need to draft a QB and with the 5th pick they can probably land whoever they like between Cam Newton, Jake Locker or Ryan Mallett.

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 07:34 PM
I don't know what you're trying to say. :coffee:

Arizona needs a Franchise QB. They thought they had drafted one in Matt Leinart, but he's sucked every time he was sent in and is clearly not the answer.

Hence, it's back to the drawing board. They need to draft a QB and with the 5th pick they can probably land whoever they like between Cam Newton, Jake Locker or Ryan Mallett.

I was just trying to say that THIS year .... Arizona ( knowing how bad Lienart was) tried to get a Ex-Pro Bowl qb (Anderson) and he too failed huge.....

For those thinking that Arizona would LOVE to have Kyle, would now having this disaster of craptastic QB-ing... REALLY take 3-4 looks at Kyle.
IMHO...Arizona will pass on "Orton for a 2nd round pick".

topscribe
01-05-2011, 07:36 PM
I was just trying to say that THIS year .... Arizona ( knowing how bad Lienart was) tried to get a Ex-Pro Bowl qb (Anderson) and he too failed huge.....

For those thinking that Arizona would LOVE to have Kyle, would now having this disaster of craptastic QB-ing... REALLY take 3-4 looks at Kyle.
IMHO...Arizona will pass on "Orton for a 2nd round pick".

And with whom from the Cardinals did you discuss Orton?

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KCL
01-05-2011, 07:38 PM
Hey...maybe he'll go back to Chicago and be Cutler's backup...now there's
an idea!

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 07:40 PM
And with whom from the Cardinals did you discuss Orton?

-----

The very same people who voted for "Kyle Orton 2010 Pro Bowl".....

no one.....

topscribe
01-05-2011, 07:42 PM
The very same people who voted for "Kyle Orton 2010 Pro Bowl".....

no one.....

That's what I thought . . . :coffee:

-----

Lancane
01-05-2011, 08:06 PM
This is kind of a moot subject since the next Head Coach will have final say in who will play or not or what he needs to make it happen. Quite literally he could come in and say Brady Quinn is the starter and both Elway and Xanders would support him. No one has an obligation to Tebow or Orton other then to pay their contracts, they like both Orton and Tebow, but that doesn’t mean that they are the present or future of this team and that they will be given anything without earning it.

weazel
01-05-2011, 08:15 PM
the hate runs strong in this thread... I don't get all the hate for Orton, dude did well for us. It's not his fault 75% or the players on this team are horrible and it was coached by a complete idiot.

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 08:25 PM
the hate runs strong in this thread... I don't get all the hate for Orton, dude did well for us. It's not his fault 75% or the players on this team are horrible and it was coached by a complete idiot.

WHEN did Kyle do well for us? When the defense held the other team to less than 20 points?
Kyle wins:
12-7- Cincy
27-6 Cleveland
23-3 Oakland
17-10 Dallas
20-17 New England
26-6 New York
44-13 KC

31-14 Seattle
26-20 Tennessee

Because only twice did the other team score more than 20 and we "Won with Kyle Orton as our qb"....

Lancane
01-05-2011, 08:33 PM
WHEN did Kyle do well for us? When the defense held the other team to less than 20 points?
Kyle wins:
12-7- Cincy
27-6 Cleveland
23-3 Oakland
17-10 Dallas
20-17 New England
26-6 New York
44-13 KC

31-14 Seattle
26-20 Tennessee

Because only twice did the other team score more than 20 and we "Won with Kyle Orton as our qb"....

Juriga, I’m not a huge supporter of Orton’s, far from it…but even I can admit that for most of the season he did try and literally carry this team. He may not have been good at it…but he still tried, he’s not a clutch quarterback and he doesn’t have that passion or drive that you would want in a quarterback. But if I had a solid defensive team with a pretty good offense that lacked a solid quarterback especially while I was grooming someone or waiting a year to draft a kid, then Orton would be a solid addition. Problem is that these kids that are coming out are better and better. At no time in the NFL has there ever been more franchise capable quarterbacks as there is now.

weazel
01-05-2011, 08:34 PM
Hey...maybe he'll go back to Chicago and be Cutler's backup...now there's
an idea!

he would be the starter after the third game, and Cutlers 12th INT

Lancane
01-05-2011, 08:36 PM
he would be the starter after the third game, and Cutlers 12th INT

I highly doubt that Weazel, at one time maybe…but Chicago loves Cutler at least those who I know do.

topscribe
01-05-2011, 08:38 PM
WHEN did Kyle do well for us? When the defense held the other team to less than 20 points?
Kyle wins:
12-7- Cincy
27-6 Cleveland
23-3 Oakland
17-10 Dallas
20-17 New England
26-6 New York
44-13 KC

31-14 Seattle
26-20 Tennessee

Because only twice did the other team score more than 20 and we "Won with Kyle Orton as our qb"....

:lol: This is what I was talking about. When it comes to Orton, your work ethic is without peer . . .

-----

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 08:42 PM
he would be the starter after the third game, and Cutlers 12th INT

I bet Jay today as he was getting ready to STILL be playing football this year is saying....

"Man I wish I had all those yards Kyle threw for this year"....

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 08:43 PM
:lol: This is what I was talking about. When it comes to Orton, your work ethic is without peer . . .

-----

Yup..."Kyle is a winner!!!!"
11-18 as the Denver Brocno starter......

NEXT year we have to go 13-3 JUST so that Kyle will have a winning record "As the starting QB of your Denver Bronco's".....


he's a winner...........not

topscribe
01-05-2011, 08:44 PM
I bet Jay today as he was getting ready to STILL be playing football this year is saying....

"Man I wish I had all those yards Kyle threw for this year"....

ROTF!! This has gone way beyond reason! :pound:

-----

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 08:48 PM
Juriga, I’m not a huge supporter of Orton’s, far from it…but even I can admit that for most of the season he did try and literally carry this team. He may not have been good at it…but he still tried, he’s not a clutch quarterback and he doesn’t have that passion or drive that you would want in a quarterback. But if I had a solid defensive team with a pretty good offense that lacked a solid quarterback especially while I was grooming someone or waiting a year to draft a kid, then Orton would be a solid addition. Problem is that these kids that are coming out are better and better. At no time in the NFL has there ever been more franchise capable quarterbacks as there is now.

I know he carried the team as far as HE could..... which btw... was not very far.

I know his yardage total was huge... but the eye test is what he failed.

Diving 2 yards short of the first down marker, throwing 4 yard passes on third and 6......tripping on the line over and over.

I cheered him, and now its over. I saw a team play much better with a new qb the last 3 games... Lets hope they do the same next year.

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 08:52 PM
ROTF!! This has gone way beyond reason! :pound:

-----

Kyle Orton Checklists-

Played in ANY playoff games-nope

Played in a Pro Bowl-nope

Had 4 game winning comebacks in one year-NOPE

NOT ever been benched, let alone 3 times- nope

call me when he checks off one of these....ok?

topscribe
01-05-2011, 08:54 PM
Kyle Orton Checklists-

Played in ANY playoff games-nope

Played in a Pro Bowl-nope

Had 4 game winning comebacks in one year-NOPE

NOT ever been benched, let alone 3 times- nope

call me when he checks off one of these....ok?

I sure do admire you for as hard as you work. :nod:

Have a good night . . .

-----

Juriga72
01-05-2011, 08:55 PM
I sure do admire you for as hard as you work. :nod:

Have a good night . . .

-----

I notice you cant say "He's done THAT" to any of them...huh?

topscribe
01-05-2011, 08:59 PM
I notice you cant say "He's done THAT" to any of them...huh?

Juriga, you're new here. I've been at this for nearly two years. I have
answered just about everything that has been posted on this topic. There is
a time when one has to say "enough." For me, it should have been nearly two
years ago. All this arguing over Orton, and nothing has changed. Before that,
arguing over Cutler. Before that, Plummer. And nothing has changed.

I officially resign from the Orton debates.

Carry on . . . :coffee:

-----

BroncoStud
01-05-2011, 11:54 PM
A 2nd is the price. Firm. Non-negotiable. If we don't get a 2nd, he is going nowhere.

That would be my stand, anyway . . .

-----

Sure, let's keep him and let him become a cancer and cause a QB controversy everytime Tebow makes a bad play...

Not a good idea TOP...

BroncoStud
01-06-2011, 12:01 AM
he would be the starter after the third game, and Cutlers 12th INT

But he will also be watching Cutler QB in the playoffs this year, something he has yet to do...

Please, Orton can't carry Jay's jock.

Simple Jaded
01-06-2011, 04:04 AM
Orton is the most overpaid backup in the league, 8+ mil if l remember right, most of it guaranteed. lf Elway gets a 3rd round pick he should be Executive of the Year.

If Josh McDaniels gets autonomy again all bets are off.......

Tned
01-06-2011, 08:02 AM
Orton is the most overpaid backup in the league, 8+ mil if l remember right, most of it guaranteed. lf Elway gets a 3rd round pick he should be Executive of the Year.

If Josh McDaniels gets autonomy again all bets are off.......

The discussions on the radio a couple weeks ago is that the guaranteed portion is between 3-5 million this year, not 8.

TXBRONC
01-06-2011, 08:51 AM
he would be the starter after the third game, and Cutlers 12th INT

I would rather have a quarterback that makes plays than one than one can't.


The discussions on the radio a couple weeks ago is that the guaranteed portion is between 3-5 million this year, not 8.

That's what read not to long ago.

LTC Pain
01-06-2011, 11:33 AM
The Broncos should offer Orton to the Cardinals for Dan Williams, NT. He was the best NT in the 2010 draft and taken after TT. He would be a good start on fixing our front three D-lineman, assuming we stay with the 3-4.

BigSarge87
01-06-2011, 12:28 PM
Every time someone says that Orton would be a cancer to this team as a backup I have to laugh because I picture him doing situps in his driveway with his shirt off bagging on the coaching and ownership.

I just can't see Orton as being a problem on the bench or in the locker room.

TXBRONC
01-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Every time someone says that Orton would be a cancer to this team as a backup I have to laugh because I picture him doing situps in his driveway with his shirt off bagging on the coaching and ownership.

I just can't see Orton as being a problem on the bench or in the locker room.

A cancer no, but would he be helpful to Tebow? I'm not sure he would.

Juriga72
01-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Every time someone says that Orton would be a cancer to this team as a backup I have to laugh because I picture him doing situps in his driveway with his shirt off bagging on the coaching and ownership.

I just can't see Orton as being a problem on the bench or in the locker room.
Kyle DOES have a history of sitting and being completely irrelevant tho....

Of course you cant see him being a cancer... And that guy doing sit-ups on his driveway is very good unlike Kyle.

6X-Pro Bowl
2000- NFL All-Decade team

Oh and he came back from a broken leg to play in a Super Bowl....

Yeah... I would much rather think Kyle would just be happy cashing a check for another year or two....

BigSarge87
01-06-2011, 12:41 PM
For sure, I don't think Orton would mentor Tebow much, but that's the coaches job and I don't think he would hinder him either. I don't see a problem keeping him here for a year as a backup if we can't get what we want out of him.

I guess I might go as low as a high 3rd for him but I think we're getting bent over the table if we go any less than that.

BigSarge87
01-06-2011, 12:44 PM
Kyle DOES have a history of sitting and being completely irrelevant tho....

Of course you cant see him being a cancer... And that guy doing sit-ups on his driveway is very good unlike Kyle.

6X-Pro Bowl
2000- NFL All-Decade team

Oh and he came back from a broken leg to play in a Super Bowl....

Yeah... I would much rather think Kyle would just be happy cashing a check for another year or two....

I'm not actually comparing T.O. to Orton, that's just what pops into my mind when I hear the term used like that. Just struck me funny.

BigSarge87
01-06-2011, 12:49 PM
I think it's pretty obvious that Orton isn't content to just sit around and collect a check. He thinks he deserves to be a starter and I don't see why he couldn't be on another team. But if that opportunity doesn't come to him, I haven't seen anything in his past to suggest he wouldn't be a supportive Bronco while he rode the pine. He's upset about how the season ended, and I don't blame him, but after that wears off a bit I wouldn't be suprised if he took on the mentor role with a little more enthusiasm until he's a FA.

Ravage!!!
01-06-2011, 12:59 PM
I think it's pretty obvious that Orton isn't content to just sit around and collect a check. He thinks he deserves to be a starter and I don't see why he couldn't be on another team. But if that opportunity doesn't come to him, I haven't seen anything in his past to suggest he wouldn't be a supportive Bronco while he rode the pine. He's upset about how the season ended, and I don't blame him, but after that wears off a bit I wouldn't be suprised if he took on the mentor role with a little more enthusiasm until he's a FA.

I dont think he would be a cancer because he's intentionally starting problems or complaining. However, there is a reason that teams dont keep their incumbent QB to be backups, it causes controversy and problems. Teams just don't do it.

Where have we ever seen a veteran QB stick around an back-up the guy that was drafted to come in and replace him? It just doesn't happen. Causes controversy in the media, with the fans, and in the locker room.

TXBRONC
01-06-2011, 01:01 PM
I think it's pretty obvious that Orton isn't content to just sit around and collect a check. He thinks he deserves to be a starter and I don't see why he couldn't be on another team. But if that opportunity doesn't come to him, I haven't seen anything in his past to suggest he wouldn't be a supportive Bronco while he rode the pine. He's upset about how the season ended, and I don't blame him, but after that wears off a bit I wouldn't be suprised if he took on the mentor role with a little more enthusiasm until he's a FA.

I believe there is more than enough information out there to suggest otherwise. After the win two weeks ago he was asked about Tebow performance and he said he doesn't comment on his the performance of his teammates. That's a contradiction because he did comment on the performance of teammates when he was the starter. Local reporters said that over three weeks Orton hasn't offered any advice or support to Tebow during games. That isn't the actions of someone who's willing to be a mentor to a fledgling quarterback.

But that doesn't mean he would be cancer, just means he probably wouldn't be all that helpful.

Cugel
01-06-2011, 01:27 PM
I was just trying to say that THIS year .... Arizona ( knowing how bad Lienart was) tried to get a Ex-Pro Bowl qb (Anderson) and he too failed huge.....

For those thinking that Arizona would LOVE to have Kyle, would now having this disaster of craptastic QB-ing... REALLY take 3-4 looks at Kyle.
IMHO...Arizona will pass on "Orton for a 2nd round pick".
I agree. Probably ALL the teams in the top 10 who need QBs will pass on Orton, because any one of them could probably get a new Franchise QB via the draft. And they're bad enough that they're in rebuilding mode anyway.

Better teams that already HAVE most of the pieces in place to make a playoff run and just need a QB are in a different place. They can't afford to wait 2 or 3 years for a rookie QB to develop. They need an experienced QB NOW, because their team is ready to win NOW, not 3 years from now.

So, a team with a GOOD pass-blocking OL, a GOOD running game, and a sound defense could use Kyle Orton.

He could very well be good enough for them to make a playoff run with them if they provided him with enough tools.

So, knowing exactly what they are getting in Orton (a sound game manager, if limited QB), some team might offer a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.

Seeing as the Broncos are asking for a 2nd rounder, I'm guessing his actual value is probably more in the nature of a 3rd.

BigSarge87
01-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Where have we ever seen a veteran QB stick around an back-up the guy that was drafted to come in and replace him? It just doesn't happen. Causes controversy in the media, with the fans, and in the locker room.

I concede, you guys are right. He needs to go. I just hope we can get what he's worth. I think his value has risen considerably since he's been here and I'd be dissapointed if we ended up taking whatever we can get just to ship him out.

TXBRONC
01-06-2011, 02:19 PM
I concede, you guys are right. He needs to go. I just hope we can get what he's worth. I think his value has risen considerably since he's been here and I'd be disappointed if we ended up taking whatever we can get just to ship him out.

A potential trade partner might see Orton as being worth a second round, but that doesn't mean they would be willing to give up a second rounder to obtain him. If Orton is on the block the Broncos discuss alternatives as long as the other team doesn't make some ridiculous offer that would be taking us to the cleaners. If Denver is offered a couple of mid round picks or a mid round pick and a player that might be worth it.

PAINTERDAVE
01-06-2011, 02:33 PM
I still think Orton will bring a 3rd AND 4th.. at least.

Maybe a 2nd if the bidding gets going.

We need to be careful about taking cast off players in trade , though...

TXBRONC
01-06-2011, 02:37 PM
I still think Orton will bring a 3rd AND 4th.. at least.

Maybe a 2nd if the bidding gets going.

We need to be careful about taking cast of players in trade , though...

Like I said, I think we might be better off with two picks rather than just one.

JDL
01-06-2011, 06:48 PM
I dont think he would be a cancer because he's intentionally starting problems or complaining. However, there is a reason that teams dont keep their incumbent QB to be backups, it causes controversy and problems. Teams just don't do it.

Where have we ever seen a veteran QB stick around an back-up the guy that was drafted to come in and replace him? It just doesn't happen. Causes controversy in the media, with the fans, and in the locker room.

Vince Young and Kerry Collins. Collins signed to be the starter, started first part of the season before Vince Young took over and Collins has been one of the very best backup QBs in the league since and despite his past, never made a peep.

Juriga72
01-06-2011, 07:05 PM
Vince Young and Kerry Collins. Collins signed to be the starter, started first part of the season before Vince Young took over and Collins has been one of the very best backup QBs in the league since and despite his past, never made a peep.

Collins is a very bad choice to point out here....

He quit on his Carolina team. Asking the HC to remove him from being a starter....

He gets a DUI in New Orleans after being released by Carolina- gets dumped by them.

Takes the Giants to the Super Bowl, they bring in Warner and draft Manning dumping him to....Oakland...

Oakland is where he was TERRIBLE.... something like 6-23 as the starter....

Tennessee was his last hope to still get a check.....THATS why he was "the good soldier" there....

T.K.O.
01-06-2011, 07:25 PM
it was reported that the niners were interested in McD for the HC spot (mcD was not interested) there has also been rumbles about oakland.
if either of these or any other team hires mcD as HC or OC i can see him making a STRONG push to bring orton in.
it would allow him to have a qb who knows his sytem while he grooms a rook or gets the rest of the team up to speed.
it's a very real possibility and then orton's value goes up....:salute:

Denver Native (Carol)
01-06-2011, 07:45 PM
it was reported that the niners were interested in McD for the HC spot (mcD was not interested) there has also been rumbles about oakland.
if either of these or any other team hires mcD as HC or OC i can see him making a STRONG push to bring orton in.
it would allow him to have a qb who knows his sytem while he grooms a rook or gets the rest of the team up to speed.
it's a very real possibility and then orton's value goes up....:salute:

He has an interview with the Vikings tomorrow. I started a thread in other NFL.

ALSO



# GO RT @BroncosForums: Wait for the Orton/McD to Vike's Tweets.. RT @PostBroncos: RT @JuddZulgad: McDaniels is expected to meet with Vikings half a minute ago via ÜberTwitter

# RT @JuddZulgad: Josh McDaniels is expected to meet with Vikings about offensive coordinator's job on Friday. 10 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter

http://twitter.com/postbroncos

zbeg
01-06-2011, 07:54 PM
Collins is a very bad choice to point out here....

He quit on his Carolina team. Asking the HC to remove him from being a starter....

He gets a DUI in New Orleans after being released by Carolina- gets dumped by them.

Takes the Giants to the Super Bowl, they bring in Warner and draft Manning dumping him to....Oakland...

Oakland is where he was TERRIBLE.... something like 6-23 as the starter....

Tennessee was his last hope to still get a check.....THATS why he was "the good soldier" there....


Can we stop using "he was X record as a starter" as if the QB is the only thing that matters? QB is the most important position on the field sure, but there are a ton of other things that determine the outcome of a game. Defense, running game, offensive line, receivers, coaching, special teams.

"QB record as a starter" while ignoring everything else is completely asinine. The only time it has any meaning is when you talk about all the other factors on the team like running game, defense, etc. and even then you have to be very careful not to read too much into it.

robert ethan
01-06-2011, 07:54 PM
You want Josh to get a job with a bottom feeder team so that second round pick is worth more..:cool:

T.K.O.
01-06-2011, 08:30 PM
You want Josh to get a job with a bottom feeder team so that second round pick is worth more..:cool:

i dont see a playoff team (except maybe the seahawks) looking for a new HC or OC.
so wherever he goes the pick would be pretty good:salute:

Juriga72
01-06-2011, 09:28 PM
Can we stop using "he was X record as a starter" as if the QB is the only thing that matters? QB is the most important position on the field sure, but there are a ton of other things that determine the outcome of a game. Defense, running game, offensive line, receivers, coaching, special teams.

"QB record as a starter" while ignoring everything else is completely asinine. The only time it has any meaning is when you talk about all the other factors on the team like running game, defense, etc. and even then you have to be very careful not to read too much into it.

??? How many times has a quarterback who is winning games been benched?

Hell... even the whole "Rex is our quarterback" PROVES that you can suck at being a quarterback as long as you are winning.....

Claiming that "He's setting records for passing yards" and ignoring the losses that mounted up...is also asinine

don't you think?

BroncoStud
01-06-2011, 09:44 PM
Every time someone says that Orton would be a cancer to this team as a backup I have to laugh because I picture him doing situps in his driveway with his shirt off bagging on the coaching and ownership.

I just can't see Orton as being a problem on the bench or in the locker room.

If Orton did situps he wouldn't be fat and out of shape...

topscribe
01-06-2011, 09:50 PM
If Orton did situps he wouldn't be fat and out of shape...

Fat and out of shape? Can you produce a graphic showing Orton fat and out of shape?

-----

BroncoStud
01-06-2011, 09:52 PM
Fat and out of shape? Can you produce a graphic showing Orton fat and out of shape?

-----

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kyle-orton-dancing.jpghttp://www.bustedcoverage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/kyle_orton_passed_out.jpghttp://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/58f90fadd607e954f51c0273c864666f.jpg

KCL
01-06-2011, 11:08 PM
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kyle-orton-dancing.jpghttp://www.bustedcoverage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/kyle_orton_passed_out.jpghttp://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/58f90fadd607e954f51c0273c864666f.jpg

WTF is that? He may not be carved but he doesn't look fat and out of shape in
these pictures.

This is what I think of when I hear/read fat and out of shape.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTyHXDmqE8pFcKn54-sW_JiA0-e5ZOCMcUBysvmCvRcZS1dBwj0

topscribe
01-06-2011, 11:23 PM
Those pictures are so old. I saw them two years ago.

You Orton haters will stop at nothing, will you?

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BroncoStud
01-06-2011, 11:30 PM
Those pictures are so old. I saw them two years ago.

You Orton haters will stop at nothing, will you?

-----

Stop at nothing? I'm not the one who told Orton to pass out looking like Jabba the Hut or to wear a baggy T-shirt that shows his gut off...

Kyle isn't exactly the epitome of conditioning. He's got the physique of someone who hasn't seen a gym in years... That's his own fault, and laziness.

BigSarge87
01-06-2011, 11:35 PM
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kyle-orton-dancing.jpg

Ha! Had to look at this picture a couple times before I even noticed Orton was in it!

BroncoStud
01-06-2011, 11:36 PM
Hahaha, no kidding. She has some nice "assets"... At least it looks like Kyle likes to climb mountains... :salute:

topscribe
01-06-2011, 11:40 PM
Stop at nothing? I'm not the one who told Orton to pass out looking like Jabba the Hut or to wear a baggy T-shirt that shows his gut off...

Kyle isn't exactly the epitome of conditioning. He's got the physique of someone who hasn't seen a gym in years... That's his own fault, and laziness.

To listen to you, Orton is the devil himself.

I don't really think you have much credibility here, in this case . . .

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BroncoStud
01-06-2011, 11:42 PM
To listen to you, Orton is the devil himself.

I don't really think you have much credibility here, in this case . . .

-----

No he's not, but he's not in good shape. His body clearly demonstrates that he doesn't spend a lot of time in the gym, his choice. I bet Kyle is quite fun to drink with but I don't want him as my QB.

My crediblity is every bit as solid as yours as you would blindly defend him regardless of what takes place.

topscribe
01-06-2011, 11:45 PM
No he's not, but he's not in good shape. His body clearly demonstrates that he doesn't spend a lot of time in the gym, his choice. I bet Kyle is quite fun to drink with but I don't want him as my QB.

My crediblity is every bit as solid as yours as you would blindly defend him regardless of what takes place.

As I expressed, you're going to have to produce more recent graphics (as if
these proved anything). Ancient photos prove nothing . . .

-----

BigSarge87
01-06-2011, 11:47 PM
No he's not, but he's not in good shape. His body clearly demonstrates that he doesn't spend a lot of time in the gym, his choice. I bet Kyle is quite fun to drink with but I don't want him as my QB.

My crediblity is every bit as solid as yours as you would blindly defend him regardless of what takes place.

I'm with Top on this one, Peyton Manning isn't exactly a Calvin Klein model either. Some dudes just won't look like that no matter how much time they spend in the gym.

BroncoStud
01-06-2011, 11:54 PM
As I expressed, you're going to have to produce more recent graphics (as if
these proved anything). Ancient photos prove nothing . . .

-----

More recent photos? So Kyle has suddenly gotten into shape? He may have dropped some weight but look at him on the field, he isn't fit... Quinn and Tebow are fit, Kyle is sloppy.

But, I would imagine Kyle is more fun to hang out with.

BroncoStud
01-06-2011, 11:56 PM
I'm with Top on this one, Peyton Manning isn't exactly a Calvin Klein model either. Some dudes just won't look like that no matter how much time they spend in the gym.

Come on... There's a difference in being sloppy and just having bad muscle tone... LOL, he is out of shape in those pics and they are with the Bears, one is from 2008. I know it isn't a requirement to look like Aw-Nold to play QB in the NFL, but it tells me a lot when I am in better shape than our starting QB...

It tells me that Kyle isn't putting the hours in the gym to make him faster, more agile, stronger, and more fit. Sorry, Manning isn't as tone as Tebow but he isn't as fat as Kyle either. :salute:

BeefStew25
01-06-2011, 11:58 PM
As I expressed, you're going to have to produce more recent graphics (as if
these proved anything). Ancient photos prove nothing . . .

-----

Google:

The Replacements kicker

topscribe
01-06-2011, 11:59 PM
Come on... There's a difference in being sloppy and just having bad muscle tone... LOL, he is out of shape in those pics and they are with the Bears, one is from 2008. I know it isn't a requirement to look like Aw-Nold to play QB in the NFL, but it tells me a lot when I am in better shape than our starting QB...

It tells me that Kyle isn't putting the hours in the gym to make him faster, more agile, stronger, and more fit. Sorry, Manning isn't as tone as Tebow but he isn't as fat as Kyle either. :salute:

You are really grasping! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/BIGrofl2-1.gif

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BroncoStud
01-07-2011, 12:02 AM
You are really grasping! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/BIGrofl2-1.gif

-----

Hmm, isn't Kyle paid to be the best QB he can? He's one of the most un-athletic QBs in the NFL yet he won't spend serious time in the gym to improve his abilities? That's just lazy dude, Orton is paid damn good money not to take the fetal position because he has no movement. Would it hurt Kyle to get faster and more agile?

I'm thinking not...

BigSarge87
01-07-2011, 12:04 AM
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kyle-orton-dancing.jpg

Wait a minute, isn't that McDaniels wife? JK:eek:

turftoad
01-07-2011, 12:05 AM
:popcorn:

You guys are making me laugh. :lol:

topscribe
01-07-2011, 12:06 AM
Hmm, isn't Kyle paid to be the best QB he can? He's one of the most un-athletic QBs in the NFL yet he won't spend serious time in the gym to improve his abilities? That's just lazy dude, Orton is paid damn good money not to take the fetal position because he has no movement. Would it hurt Kyle to get faster and more agile?

I'm thinking not...

Say, do you have any more recent photos? Maybe like in the last 6-8 weeks?

You are trying very hard to prove Orton is a bum. But you're falling short.

Sorry. :lol:

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BroncoStud
01-07-2011, 12:06 AM
:popcorn:

You guys are making me laugh. :lol:

We aim to please. :elefant:

topscribe
01-07-2011, 12:07 AM
:popcorn:

You guys are making me laugh. :lol:

Me too. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/BIGrofl2-1.gif

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BroncoStud
01-07-2011, 12:07 AM
Say, do you have any more recent photos? Maybe like in the last 6-8 weeks?

You are trying very hard to prove Orton is a bum. But you're falling short.

Sorry. :lol:

-----

Haha, am I? Does the camera lie? He looks like a beached whale in the photo where he is passed out... Then on the dance floor behind the hottie he's in a baggy t-shirt and still fat LOL... Then in the other photo when he's chugging Jack he's got a fat roll...

Is Kyle suddenly in shape since 2008?

topscribe
01-07-2011, 12:08 AM
Haha, am I? Does the camera lie? He looks like a beached whale in the photo where he is passed out... Then on the dance floor behind the hottie he's in a baggy t-shirt and still fat LOL... Then in the other photo when he's chugging Jack he's got a fat roll...

Is Kyle suddenly in shape since 2008?

In other words, you don't.

Case closed. Good night. :coffee:

-----

BroncoStud
01-07-2011, 12:08 AM
2009

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2007/12/ortonrock.jpg

Not sure the date on this one...

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2008/09/facebookorton.jpg

This one is GREAT... lmao...

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/kyle%20orton%20with%20bottle.jpg

http://eddiebear.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/orton.jpg

http://www.jackbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/kyle-orton-drunk-party-photos.jpg