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View Full Version : Is the Shanahan Offense Back?



Broncospsycho77
09-09-2008, 06:20 PM
Watching the game yesterday (obviously), one huge point stuck out to me in terms of game plan.

Is Shanahan's style back into the offense?

I'm talking about the crazy formations of the same play, the pass-first to grab the lead, then run 'em over for the rest, the undeniably complex route running... it appears to be back.

A few examples: Kory Lichtensteiger moves in motion to become a second fullback once or twice on running plays, Eddie Royal running a motion, faking it, and then running back (that may have just been an error, but we'll see), and a few of Royal's routes, like a cut, hitch, and cut outside for an extended outs play...

So is it back? Are there adjustments to the formula (less RB plays than normal)? Should there be more adjustments? And does it/will it work on more than just the Raiders?

Discuss.

smith49
09-09-2008, 07:33 PM
it looked like to me that the playbook was dusted off and opened up. i cant remember the last time the broncos pass game looked like it did last night. well, yes i can, but i think #7 was the passer at the time.

Tned
09-09-2008, 07:51 PM
I've posted in a couple threads about the Shanahan game planning, play calling being back.

I have been lambasted by a great many people over the last 24 months (since hours after week 1 game of 2006) for talking about the negative influene of Heimerdinger.

Far too many fans have underestimated the impact of going from Kubiak to Heimerdinger, and Shanny letting his 'friend' bring a new dimension to the offense. I am sure when he made that decision, that he thought it was a good idea, just like when he brought in Bates and gave him control (assistant head coach D, compared to Dinger being assistant head coach O) of the defense, he didn't expect a debacle.

What both Bates and Heimerdinger hand in common was that they didn't know how to create game plans for the personell on the field, they are one-trick ponies. While injuries crushed us the last couple years, what really crushed us on offense was Heimerdinger. Even with the injurie, with better coaching and game planning we would have been at least a 9 win team, Shanny says a 10 win team.

He through Bates under the bus, but wouldn't do the same to his 'friend' Heimerdinger, but instead let him 'quietly' take a demotion and move to the Titans as OC.

So, the reason I bring up all of that, is because of this:

The SINGLE biggest personell moves made in the offseason were the removal of Bates and Dinger. Beyond that, what I have said was that if Shanahan once again became involved in the offense and mentored Dennison the way he mentored Kubiak, we had enough talent on offense to be a very good offense, and the only question would be how our defense held up.

What we have seen for the first time in two years, is an offense that focused on misdirection and confusion -- a gameplan and play calling that kept the defense guessing and on their heals, due to not knowing what was coming next.

True, we have more options this year, because it appears that our pass blocking is MUCH better, but that is only part of the story. It gives more options in the play calling, but that is all. It gives more options.

Kubiak showed how much you could get out of an offense that didn't have stars like Cutler, Marshal, an LT picked 12th overall, etc. It was accomplished through gameplanning and playcalling that kept the defense off guard and 'guessing'.

Prior to the Thanksgiving game, Parcells summed it up (while many Broncos' fans took this as a negative), when he said that the Broncos only run about five plays, but they run them out of dozens of formations (paraphrasing from memory), so while they run the same plays over and over, you never know what is comeing, and they run those five plays very well.

While Parcells oversimplified things a bit, that aspect of the play calling has been lost. The multiple formations, motioning TE's into FB positions, motioning WR's into RB slots, running enough bootlegs to make sure the ends didn't over pursue, etc., etc., etc.

So, in a very long winded, Tned-verbose response, yes, the Shanahan offense appears to be back.

The anticipation of Shanahan being back involved in the offense is the main reason that in the post-draft predictions and training camp predictions, I stated that I thought the broncos would win 11-12 games and make the playoffs, with a low target of 10 wins and a high of 13.

Scarface
09-09-2008, 08:55 PM
All Shanahan needs is a stud QB and it's Go Time (see Steve Young and Elway). Now that he has another stud QB it's going to be high octane offense every week.

Nomad
09-09-2008, 09:04 PM
Give it some games! Next week will be a good test!!

DenBronx
09-09-2008, 09:19 PM
i saw him put in plays that i hadnt seen in years. i wish people would just give the man respect. he is an offensive genious. all he needs is the tools to make it happen. looks like he has the tools now....:salute:

Tned
09-09-2008, 09:22 PM
i saw him put in plays that i hadnt seen in years. i wish people would just give the man respect. he is an offensive genious. all he needs is the tools to make it happen. looks like he has the tools now....:salute:

He had many of the same tools last year (yes, Jay got sick at the end, but that didn't effect play calling), but we didn't see the creative game plans. Why? Because he gave control to Heimerdinger in a failed experiment.

NameUsedBefore
09-09-2008, 09:33 PM
A lot of it has to do with Cutler, IMO.

Not since (gasp) Griese have we really seen a dynamic passing game.

Tned
09-09-2008, 10:03 PM
A lot of it has to do with Cutler, IMO.

Not since (gasp) Griese have we really seen a dynamic passing game.

Cutler and protection, but a lot is play calling. Did we see anywhere near the combo of straight drop, boot lefts, slide rights, various runs, shotgun, TE motioned to FB, WR runs, wR passes, etc.

Overt the last two years, we have barely seen all those components of the offense showing up in a season, not just one game.

NameUsedBefore
09-09-2008, 10:13 PM
Cutler and protection, but a lot is play calling. Did we see anywhere near the combo of straight drop, boot lefts, slide rights, various runs, shotgun, TE motioned to FB, WR runs, wR passes, etc.

Overt the last two years, we have barely seen all those components of the offense showing up in a season, not just one game.

I mean the dynamic passing game is why we have that kind of playcalling back.

Tned
09-09-2008, 10:16 PM
I mean the dynamic passing game is why we have that kind of playcalling back.

I'm not discounting a healthy Cutler, and the impact at Clady at LT in protection, but the reason the playcalling is back is because Shanahan is back in charge of the offense.

Benetto
09-09-2008, 10:18 PM
I'm not discounting a healthy Cutler, and the impact at Clady at LT in protection, but the reason the playcalling is back is because Shanahan is back in charge of the offense.

No more Dinger or Kubes.

underrated29
09-09-2008, 10:27 PM
yeah its back and its a combo of all the above i think.

cutler, protection, no bates,hermy, better skilled players, experience, everything.

And I freaking Love It.

my fav formation is the 3wide single back, and i think we will see lots of that this year too. Not just 2 wide iformation Te motion.


It back and we are back!

Bronco Bible
09-10-2008, 08:55 AM
All Shanahan needs is a stud QB and it's Go Time (see Steve Young and Elway). Now that he has another stud QB it's going to be high octane offense every week.

I certainly hope so Scar:beer:

sneakers
09-10-2008, 09:05 AM
I fondly remember seeing a bootleg in the play where our TE caught that deep pass and ran the ball to 4 yardline.....reminded me of the good ole days.

Mike
09-10-2008, 09:50 AM
Same with the HB pitch. Made me remember the days of TD.

LRtagger
09-10-2008, 10:06 AM
IMO it is not so much to do with Heimer vs Kubes vs Bates but more to do with the fact that Jay was basically in his Rookie year last season. I wouldn't doubt the playbook being cut back in order to help Jay get comfortable and gain some confidence. Now that Jay has shown he can carry the offense, the playbook has been opened up completely.

You start throwing in a bunch of weird formations and trick plays with a rookie QB and you are just asking for trouble.

Traveler
09-10-2008, 10:17 AM
While the passing game seems to be opening up, we still won't be as powerful on offense until we get the dominant RB needed to make defenses play us honestly.

That said, we sure are close to matching up against defense in the league.

Hopefully, Sunday is the next step in the offense's evolution!

jhns
09-10-2008, 10:19 AM
While the passing game seems to be opening up, we still won't be as powerful on offense until we get the dominant RB needed to make defenses play us honestly.

That said, we sure are close to matching up against defense in the league.

Hopefully, Sunday is the next step in the offense's evolution!

You aren't going to get much better than 5 and 6 YPC out of any RB.

Traveler
09-10-2008, 10:35 AM
You aren't going to get much better than 5 and 6 YPC out of any RB.

True, but none of our backs worry opposing defenses. Once we get the dominant back needed for this offense, the skies the limit.

haroldthebarrel
09-10-2008, 10:49 AM
I think the Shanahan offense has always been there. What is different is that we have a lot of individual talent that we havent had in almost ten years.

Although I will admit that i havent seen Denver playcall so excellently in many years.
Heck, do people even remember all the flack kubiak got for his nintendo offenses and lack of RZ production at all?

jhns
09-10-2008, 11:32 AM
True, but none of our backs worry opposing defenses. Once we get the dominant back needed for this offense, the skies the limit.

I will guarantee you that defensive coordinators around the league fear our run game just as much as any run game that has an elite back in it. That being said, it would benifit greatly from a top notch RB. I don't think it is a must for us to have a top offense though. Our run game is about the system more than the back and defenses hate our system.

yardog
09-10-2008, 11:35 AM
True, but none of our backs worry opposing defenses. Once we get the dominant back needed for this offense, the skies the limit.

I think Torain might be that back if not I think they would have put him on IR.

omac
09-10-2008, 01:01 PM
IMO it is not so much to do with Heimer vs Kubes vs Bates but more to do with the fact that Jay was basically in his Rookie year last season. I wouldn't doubt the playbook being cut back in order to help Jay get comfortable and gain some confidence. Now that Jay has shown he can carry the offense, the playbook has been opened up completely.

You start throwing in a bunch of weird formations and trick plays with a rookie QB and you are just asking for trouble.

Actually, although Jay was only in his 2nd year, he already had a pretty good grasp of the playbook. Sure, he'd make some mistakes because of the growing pains, but if you remember what he had to work with ... sudden change of #1 WR, no consistent #1 RB, a ton of injuries to the OL forced less experienced players to hold the line. Despite all that, he was still able to usually make quick reads and get rid of the ball pretty fast, out of necessity.

Yes, Jay looks in much better command of the position, but the real difference is the OL. Jay would've looked much better last season if he had this one. A lot of people say it was the diabetes, but despite that, he put up pretty good numbers. When Jay faced KC, he had decent time to survey the field and make throws, and he was spectacular in that game. The OL is the major factor.

Lonestar
09-10-2008, 03:56 PM
Actually, although Jay was only in his 2nd year, he already had a pretty good grasp of the playbook. Sure, he'd make some mistakes because of the growing pains, but if you remember what he had to work with ... sudden change of #1 WR, no consistent #1 RB, a ton of injuries to the OL forced less experienced players to hold the line. Despite all that, he was still able to usually make quick reads and get rid of the ball pretty fast, out of necessity.

Yes, Jay looks in much better command of the position, but the real difference is the OL. Jay would've looked much better last season if he had this one. A lot of people say it was the diabetes, but despite that, he put up pretty good numbers. When Jay faced KC, he had decent time to survey the field and make throws, and he was spectacular in that game. The OL is the major factor.


for that matter Jake would have looked good behind that OLINE..:laugh:

Your correct the game is won or lost on the LOS.. Right now we are half way there.. OLINE seems to have their stuff together DLINE not there yet..

Retired_Member_001
09-10-2008, 04:05 PM
for that matter Jake would have looked good behind that OLINE..:laugh:

Your correct the game is won or lost on the LOS.. Right now we are half way there.. OLINE seems to have their stuff together DLINE not there yet..

I agree. As I said in my Preview of the Chargers and the Broncos, our offensive line may not have the best players, but they work extremely well together and that's all the counts. It's time for the defensive line to show a little something though.

LRtagger
09-10-2008, 04:08 PM
Actually, although Jay was only in his 2nd year, he already had a pretty good grasp of the playbook. Sure, he'd make some mistakes because of the growing pains, but if you remember what he had to work with ... sudden change of #1 WR, no consistent #1 RB, a ton of injuries to the OL forced less experienced players to hold the line. Despite all that, he was still able to usually make quick reads and get rid of the ball pretty fast, out of necessity.

Yes, Jay looks in much better command of the position, but the real difference is the OL. Jay would've looked much better last season if he had this one. A lot of people say it was the diabetes, but despite that, he put up pretty good numbers. When Jay faced KC, he had decent time to survey the field and make throws, and he was spectacular in that game. The OL is the major factor.


No doubt the OL played a big role in how good Cutler looked Monday vs. how he looked last year.

My point was in reference to all of the new play formations we saw in the game. I wonder if those plays were drawn up last year, but we kept the offense simplified because Jay was basically a rookie. It is tough for arookie to change plays at the line, read defenses, and go to check-downs when you have hundreds of offensive formations and thousands of plays.

I was saying now that Jay is more comfortable recognizing defenses and making proper reads, Mike may have opened the playbook up even more...adding in crazy formations designed to confuse defenses (but which might also confuse an inexperienced QB).

I'm not convinced Heimerdinger leaving is the reason our playbook seems more diverse.

Lonestar
09-10-2008, 04:10 PM
I agree. As I said in my Preview of the Chargers and the Broncos, our offensive line may not have the best players, but they work extremely well together and that's all the counts. It's time for the defensive line to show a little something though.

Well again OAK was pretty pathetic on both sides to the ball..

OUR rookie OT will get a much truer test this week than last week..

I do not think the defense can stop SAN offense.. Live by the blitz die by the blitz..

Tned
09-10-2008, 06:22 PM
Yes, Jay looks in much better command of the position, but the real difference is the OL. Jay would've looked much better last season if he had this one. A lot of people say it was the diabetes, but despite that, he put up pretty good numbers. When Jay faced KC, he had decent time to survey the field and make throws, and he was spectacular in that game. The OL is the major factor.

Jay would have looked better behind the improved O-line, but the big difference is game planning and play calling. The last two years, under the failed Heimerdinger experiment, completely eliminated Shanahan's "keep 'em guessing" misdirection offense.

lex
09-10-2008, 09:40 PM
Jay would have looked better behind the improved O-line, but the big difference is game planning and play calling. The last two years, under the failed Heimerdinger experiment, completely eliminated Shanahan's "keep 'em guessing" misdirection offense.

You dont like Heimerdinger? I didnt know that.

WARHORSE
09-10-2008, 09:44 PM
All Shanahan needs is a stud QB and it's Go Time (see Steve Young and Elway). Now that he has another stud QB it's going to be high octane offense every week.


A stud QB, a stud Oline, some stud WRs, and some salvagable TEs and RBs.

Semi effective defense......:coffee:

Thats when Shanny has all the weapons to threaten any portion of the playing field.

Look out defenses...........Shanny has an offense.

lex
09-10-2008, 09:53 PM
A stud QB, a stud Oline, some stud WRs, and some salvagable TEs and RBs.

Semi effective defense......:coffee:

Thats when Shanny has all the weapons to threaten any portion of the playing field.

Look out defenses...........Shanny has an offense.


Or maybe he just needed to be more hands on. Seriously, some of the play combinations were jawdropping. There were a few times that Ditka was blown away. It was almost like watching Sugar Ray throwing combinations.

Tned
09-10-2008, 10:11 PM
You dont like Heimerdinger? I didnt know that.

I like coaches that create schemes to utilize the players on the field, rather than having a stock scheme and putting it in place, regardless of the players on the field.

lex
09-10-2008, 10:13 PM
I like coaches that create schemes to utilize the players on the field, rather than having a stock scheme and putting it in place, regardless of the players on the field.


Yeah, I was being facetious.

Tned
09-10-2008, 10:15 PM
Yeah, I was being facetious.

I know, but it gave me another opening... ;)

omac
09-10-2008, 10:36 PM
No doubt the OL played a big role in how good Cutler looked Monday vs. how he looked last year.

My point was in reference to all of the new play formations we saw in the game. I wonder if those plays were drawn up last year, but we kept the offense simplified because Jay was basically a rookie. It is tough for arookie to change plays at the line, read defenses, and go to check-downs when you have hundreds of offensive formations and thousands of plays.

I was saying now that Jay is more comfortable recognizing defenses and making proper reads, Mike may have opened the playbook up even more...adding in crazy formations designed to confuse defenses (but which might also confuse an inexperienced QB).

I'm not convinced Heimerdinger leaving is the reason our playbook seems more diverse.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Also, I'm not sure Shanny was willing to allow Jay a whole lot of improvisation. A lot of our goal to go plays were very predictable.

This last game, the playcalling had Shanahan written all over it. He has tons of confidence in Jay and the OL this season. There was no way some of those long passes could've been executed last season.

Scarface
09-10-2008, 10:39 PM
for that matter Jake would have looked good behind that OLINE..:laugh:



He wouldn't have looked Jay Cutler good.

Superchop 7
09-12-2008, 12:19 AM
Oh yeah, they're back.