Mrshall whines about Henne

[Spiritguy]

How does Miami Dolphins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/mia/) wide receiver Brandon Marshall (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7868/)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7868/news) feel about quarterback Chad Henne (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8834/)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8834/news) after collaborating for one season?


Well, Marshallisn't thrilled (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/dolphins/miami-dolphins-brandon-marshall-expresses-doubt-that-he-1154567.html) with Henne.


"We had some opportunities this year to do that and we didn't get it done," Marshall said."So, I guess we have to evaluate what we did this year and see what we can improve on. See if we can become good before we can become great."'


Marshall said he's not sure they can work well together next season.

“Just got to let it go, you know?” Marshall said. “Don’t worry about the consequences. Just throw it up and see what happens. Throw a pick or whatever. Let’s live and die by it.

a few more paragraphs here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ArqlhtDFCK8zDnRUQZKg6.pDubYF?slug=nfp-20101230_brandon_marshall_gives_chad_henne_a_thumb s_down)

Check out the link too. Some funny comments. :laugh:

[EMB6903]

Lloyd in 2010~~~~~>Marshall in any season with Denver.

Ill take 19 yards a catch over a possesion WR who averages 11 yards per.

[Ravage!!!]

Any team in teh NFL would take Marshall over Lloyd. I'll take a guy that can take triple coverage and STILL make the catch across the middle anyday.

I didn't see from that quote, btw, any whining going on about Henne at all. :confused:

[Spiritguy]

maybe whining isn't the right term to use. perhaps lamenting about his past qb and Henne's not taking chances is more accurate.

[Northman]

Marshall's comments are very poor thats for sure. Typical Marshall with his attitude but he is correct, Henne sucks balls and Miami still needs to find a true QB. Henne is like a poor man's Orton.

[Dzone]

HAHA...Hes going all TO on Henne! So glad we got rid of him!!!! Is it Miamis second pick in 2011 that we got for him?
“Jay Cutler was my guy," said Marshall, who caught 81 passes this season. "He threw it up, but that was so long ago and in the past."

[EMB6903]

Any team in teh NFL would take Marshall over Lloyd. I'll take a guy that can take triple coverage and STILL make the catch across the middle anyday.

I didn't see from that quote, btw, any whining going on about Henne at all. :confused:

I'd argue this year alone opposing defenses have been more worried about Brandon Lloyd then Brandon Marshall.

20 yards per reception is insane (almost doubling Marshall)

But of course any team in the NFL would take Marshall over lloyd because of his past success.. Lloyd has had 1 great year in his 9 year career to Marshalls 3 in his 5 years.
I do think its safe to say 2010 Brandon Lloyd was better then any season Marshall had in Denver demanding just as much attention from opposing defenses, prob more.

[BroncoBJ]

:lol: It was nice to have Marshall being triple teamed and all that. But the only thing I didn't like is both Orton and Cutler forced some balls to Marshall when hes hugely covered. If hes covered by 2 or 3 people, then chances are someone is open.

I'd like to see a few more consistant seasons out of Lloyd. :salute: I like em both though.

[Nomad]

If McD lands in Miami, Marshall may have Orton throwing to him!!

[Ravage!!!]

I'd argue this year alone opposing defenses have been more worried about Brandon Lloyd then Brandon Marshall.

20 yards per reception is insane (almost doubling Marshall)

This year alone? So you are takign a nine year vet's BEST season against a guy that has had 100 catches 3 times in a row and had his worst year with Chad Henne, as your basis for your argument?

ANY team would take Marshall over Lloyd... period. Thats really all that matters. No one can hand pick seasons and base a players abilities based on that one year, especially if you are going to compare it to another person's worst :lol:

Lloyd had his one good year. Good for him. I'd take Marshall ANY game of the season over Lloyd, and there is a reason that Marshall is considered to be an elite, and Lloyd is considered a one-year wonder.

[Ravage!!!]

:lol: It was nice to have Marshall being triple teamed and all that. But the only thing I didn't like is both Orton and Cutler forced some balls to Marshall when hes hugely covered. If hes covered by 2 or 3 people, then chances are someone is open.

I'd like to see a few more consistant seasons out of Lloyd. :salute: I like em both though.

So you are taking away from Marshall because the QBs feel so comfortable about him making the catch??

[EMB6903]

This year alone? So you are takign a nine year vet's BEST season against a guy that has had 100 catches 3 times in a row and had his worst year with Chad Henne, as your basis for your argument?

ANY team would take Marshall over Lloyd... period. Thats really all that matters. No one can hand pick seasons and base a players abilities based on that one year, especially if you are going to compare it to another person's worst :lol:

Lloyd had his one good year. Good for him. I'd take Marshall ANY game of the season over Lloyd, and there is a reason that Marshall is considered to be an elite, and Lloyd is considered a one-year wonder.

man oh man.. the argument was 2010 Ravage.. do you just argue to argue?

I try being as specific as possible so I wouldnt get the "career" debate.

BASED OF 2010... THIS YEAR ALONE... THE 2010 SEASON.

[BroncoBJ]

So you are taking away from Marshall because the QBs feel so comfortable about him making the catch??

No, I love Marshall. I'm not taking away from him at all. Its nice to take risks sometimes and throw to him to see if he can come down with it. I just hated that more times then not, we'd lock on to Marshall and it'd result in a turnover or just another punt when someone was clearly open.

Marshall was fun to watch. I'll always like him.

[Dzone]

Loyd has been a human highlight film this year. Its more than just stats, some of those catches he made were unbelievable. Its not like he was just catching screen passes.

[EMB6903]

:lol: It was nice to have Marshall being triple teamed and all that. But the only thing I didn't like is both Orton and Cutler forced some balls to Marshall when hes hugely covered. If hes covered by 2 or 3 people, then chances are someone is open.

I'd like to see a few more consistant seasons out of Lloyd. :salute: I like em both though.

lol good point. I cant tell you how many times Marshall caught a pass in double coverage that ended in a 3 yard gain.

[Ravage!!!]

man oh man.. the argument was 2010 Ravage.. do you just argue to argue?

I try being as specific as possible so I wouldnt get the "career" debate.

BASED OF 2010... THIS YEAR ALONE... THE 2010 SEASON.

Man-oh-man is right! I know you were talking about the single season, which just doesn't make sense to me. Who cares about a single season comparison when you are comparing one player's best season to another player's worst??? :confused: That just means nothing.

its not arguing for the sake of arguing, its pointing out ridiculous comparisons. :shrug:

[BroncoBJ]

lol good point. I cant tell you how many times Marshall caught a pass in double coverage that ended in a 3 yard gain.

I did love watching Marshall though. I just love how he'd catch a pass. Run 10 yards backwards/sideways, then run for about 30 yards. And gain 20 on the play. He was fun to watch. He would never go down easy. Especially his 1st 2 seasons. He doesn't do all that razzle dazzle stuff as much. But He was a joy to watch.

As for Lloyd, Hes been a human highlight reel his whole career. He'd always make circus catches. This is his 1st year he actually looks like a WR though which is nice.

But is it wrong if I like both Lloyd and Marshall? It seems like around here you have to like one or the other. Same with Jake/Jay. Same with Kyle/Tebow. :lol: Its like you cant like both. :fight:

[Northman]

No, I love Marshall. I'm not taking away from him at all. Its nice to take risks sometimes and throw to him to see if he can come down with it. I just hated that more times then not, we'd lock on to Marshall and it'd result in a turnover or just another punt when someone was clearly open.

Marshall was fun to watch. I'll always like him.

Indeed. And unfortuantely for Brandon to have Henne just throw it up would probably be worse than good for him. You have to have a Qb who can put it in the right spot and not throw it up for grabs when your covered by 3 guys. Chances are its just frustration playing into it all. I mean, HE IS HUMAN which i heard so much regarding Orton's comments.

Never the less, it seems that Brandon still hasnt learned to keep his mouth shut and for that i am glad he is gone. For a talented player he is just a shitstorm when it comes to the media.

[Ravage!!!]

No, I love Marshall. I'm not taking away from him at all. Its nice to take risks sometimes and throw to him to see if he can come down with it. I just hated that more times then not, we'd lock on to Marshall and it'd result in a turnover or just another punt when someone was clearly open.

Marshall was fun to watch. I'll always like him.

Just sucks to think that we could have had both......... :tsk:

[EMB6903]

Man-oh-man is right! I know you were talking about the single season, which just doesn't make sense to me. Who cares about a single season comparison when you are comparing one player's best season to another player's worst??? :confused: That just means nothing.

its not arguing for the sake of arguing, its pointing out ridiculous comparisons. :shrug:

I never compared Lloyds best to Marshall's worst.

lets try it again.


Lloyd in 2010~~~~~>Marshall in any season with Denver.

Ill take 19 yards a catch over a possesion WR who averages 11 yards per.

[BroncoBJ]

Just sucks to think that we could have had both......... :tsk:

True that. Damn, It sucks that we didn't get to see them both play together last year really. That could have been a very sick 1-2 Tandem with Eddie right there in the mix.

Hopefully Demaryius can stay healthy and can turn in to a solid WR. I'm getting tired of watching him get hurt every time hes touched.

[Ravage!!!]

Indeed. And unfortuantely for Brandon to have Henne just throw it up would probably be worse than good for him. You have to have a Qb who can put it in the right spot and not throw it up for grabs when your covered by 3 guys. Chances are its just frustration playing into it all. I mean, HE IS HUMAN which i heard so much regarding Orton's comments.

Never the less, it seems that Brandon still hasnt learned to keep his mouth shut and for that i am glad he is gone. For a talented player he is just a shitstorm when it comes to the media.

All good points... but to me, I just dont care if a guy is bad with the media. I mean, so what? WRs as of late are the diva's and there is no doubt that Marshall is a guy that doesn't kjnow how to just shut up.

But on the field, no one works harder. He performs. So I would much rather have the guy that does his job on the field and talks to the media, than a guy that keeps his mouth shut, and isn't nearly as good. That silence doesn't help.

:beer:

[Ravage!!!]

I never compared Lloyds best to Marshall's worst.

lets try it again.

Exactly. Which is why I brought up the CAREER of both players! :lol:

You are cherry picking Lloyd's best season. If you want to take the BODY of their work and compare them, then ok. But as it is, you are taking the best season of a nine-year vet.

[silkamilkamonico]

Marshall is Keyshawn Johnson clone version 2.0, except his hands aren't as good and he runs a little better with the ball after the catch.

[MasterShake]

Personally, I'd love to have Marshall AND Lloyd. D Coordinators would be up for days with diarrhea before they played us...

[BroncoBJ]

Personally, I'd love to have Marshall AND Lloyd. D Coordinators would be up for days with diarrhea before they played us...

It would give every team in the league headaches. Including us :lol:

[Northman]

All good points... but to me, I just dont care if a guy is bad with the media. I mean, so what? WRs as of late are the diva's and there is no doubt that Marshall is a guy that doesn't kjnow how to just shut up.

But on the field, no one works harder. He performs. So I would much rather have the guy that does his job on the field and talks to the media, than a guy that keeps his mouth shut, and isn't nearly as good. That silence doesn't help.

:beer:


Well, i think there is two different ways to handle how you mouth off. If your a guy who will get in another guy's grill on the field to get him motivated to do his job or play then yes, i like that. But if your a guy who is going to talk junk to the media badmouthing another player than no, i dont care for it. Marshall just doesnt do it the right way and although i do love his performance on the field dont be surprised if this creates division in the lockerroom with Henne. We've seen this trainwreck before with Terrell Owens and now he is a journeyman with no rings. ;)

[silkamilkamonico]

Lloyd has been a much bigger play threat than Marshall when comparing the 2 and also in Denver. I think they are just very 2 different types of WR's. Lloyd has been an amazing big play threat. Marshall is a very good possession WR. 2 very different players.

[turftoad]

Lloyd has been a much bigger play threat than Marshall when comparing the 2 and also in Denver. I think they are just very 2 different types of WR's. Lloyd has been an amazing big play threat. Marshall is a very good possession WR. 2 very different players.

A possession reciever?? Wow, how soon we forget. :tsk:

Oh and BTW, I wouldn't be happy with Henne either.

[T.K.O.]

you think MAYBE marshall is trying to punch his ticket to chicago ?
i meam he could be in the playoffs next week if he makes a big enough fuss !:D

[EMB6903]

A possession reciever?? Wow, how soon we forget. :tsk:

Its not like being a possession WR is a bad thing, but I'd have to agree with Silk in saying that Marshall is a Possession WR.

[turftoad]

Its not like being a possession WR is a bad thing, but I'd have to agree with Silk in saying that Marshall is a Possession WR.

You guys need to back and watch some highlight film of when Marshall wore Orange and Blue.

One of the best at after the catch yardage.

[Ravage!!!]

Well, i think there is two different ways to handle how you mouth off. If your a guy who will get in another guy's grill on the field to get him motivated to do his job or play then yes, i like that. But if your a guy who is going to talk junk to the media badmouthing another player than no, i dont care for it. Marshall just doesnt do it the right way and although i do love his performance on the field dont be surprised if this creates division in the lockerroom with Henne. We've seen this trainwreck before with Terrell Owens and now he is a journeyman with no rings. ;)

Well, and I admit that I may have forgotten something, but has he criticized another player before this to the media?? Or is this just a talkative player, making a comment about a player that is pretty well known to be gone?

[Northman]

Well, and I admit that I may have forgotten something, but has he criticized another player before this to the media?? Or is this just a talkative player, making a comment about a player that is pretty well known to be gone?

Honestly i dont remember but he does have a history of showing his displeaure to the media regarding all things. The thing is, off the field Marshall is just a time bomb in the waiting. On the field great, off not so much.

[EMB6903]

You guys need to back and watch some highlight film of when Marshall wore Orange and Blue.

One of the best at after the catch yardage.

Marshall was a beast after the catch...

What does that have to do with not being a possession WR?

[silkamilkamonico]

A possession reciever?? Wow, how soon we forget. :tsk:

Oh and BTW, I wouldn't be happy with Henne either.

How soon Brandon Marshall forgets then. This isn't 2006 anymore. :tsk: He's averaging 11.3 ypc. He's currently 173rd in the NFL in ypc. His ypc has basically gone down every year here has been in the NFL. Davone Bess has more TD's than him. He's a very good WR, but he is hardly a deep play threat.

[Ravage!!!]

I guess Marshall is a "possession" WR. But if thats the case, then I suppose Andre Johnson is a possession WR as well?? :confused: Because over the first 5 years of their career, Marshall has out performed Andre in catches, yards, and TDs.

Marshall: 408....4936.... 28 tds

Johnson: 371....4804.... 25 tds

So I dont know what the definition some want to use as a "possession" WR.

[Northman]

There's nothing wrong with a possession receiver. Michael Irvin was a possession receiver, Andre Johnson is a possession receiver, Keyshawn Johnson was a possession receiver, etc. I would take any of those guys along with Marshall.

[EMB6903]

I guess Marshall is a "possession" WR. But if thats the case, then I suppose Andre Johnson is a possession WR as well?? :confused: Because over the first 5 years of their career, Marshall has out performed Andre in catches, yards, and TDs.

Marshall: 408....4936.... 28 tds

Johnson: 371....4804.... 25 tds

So I dont know what the definition some want to use as a "possession" WR.

far from it. Andre Johnson is an actual deep play threat, Marshall is not.

Andre Johnson also played with David Carr his first years. Who Cutler, Orton and Henne are worlds ahead of.

[silkamilkamonico]

I guess Marshall is a "possession" WR. But if thats the case, then I suppose Andre Johnson is a possession WR as well?? :confused: Because over the first 5 years of their career, Marshall has out performed Andre in catches, yards, and TDs.

Marshall: 408....4936.... 28 tds

Johnson: 371....4804.... 25 tds

So I dont know what the definition some want to use as a "possession" WR.


Andre Johnson had 3 seasons over 14 ypc. Brandon Marshall only had 1.

Is there an intermediate then? Because anyone who has followed Marshall's career knows that 2006, his rookie season, was the only season he did anything downfield more than a handful of times throughout the season.


People can take Marshall's 100 catch season in Denver. I'll take Lloyds more yards than any year Marshall had in Denver, along with at least as many TD's.

Again, there's nothing wrong with Marshall's game. You guys act like it's a bad thing.

[turftoad]

How soon Brandon Marshall forgets then. This isn't 2006 anymore. :tsk: He's averaging 11.3 ypc. He's currently 173rd in the NFL in ypc. His ypc has basically gone down every year here has been in the NFL. Davone Bess has more TD's than him. He's a very good WR, but he is hardly a deep play threat.

Marshall gets triple teamed in Miami thus Bess having more TD's. Pretty hard not having a decent compliment on the other side of him to take some coverage off Marshall. Plus Henne sucks.

Like Rav says, any team in the NFL would rather have Marshall than Lloyd. Theres a reason for that.

[silkamilkamonico]

far from it. Andre Johnson is an actual deep play threat, Marshall is not.

Andre Johnson also played with David Carr his first years. Who Cutler, Orton and Henne are worlds ahead of.

On top of that, Johnson has seen more double and triple coverage in his days than Marshall has. I find it ironic that some people are choosing to ignored that when trying to point that out when using that to compare Marshall and Lloyd.

Again, there is nothing wrong with Marshall's game. He's one of the best WR's in the NFL.

[Northman]

I will also point out that last year Orton very RARELY threw deep compared to this year. The playcalling had a lot to do with the past two seasons in Denver.

[silkamilkamonico]

Marshall gets triple teamed in Miami thus Bess having more TD's. Pretty hard not having a decent compliment on the other side of him to take some coverage off Marshall. Plus Henne sucks.

Like Rav says, any team in the NFL would rather have Marshall than Lloyd. Theres a reason for that.

Ok this is absurd abnd I can't believe I initially bought into it. Marshall is NOT getting triple teamed. That's ridiculous. He does get double teamed, just like every other great WR in the NFL. Again, not having a compliment has seemed to work out for guys like Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, and a plethora of others. It's not like it's not working out for Marshall, he's still having a very good season. He's got 81 catches, and he's avering 11.1 ypc. It's the kind of WR he is in the NFL, and he's a damn good one. Marshall didn't exactly have a compliment here in Denver last year. He's just had a down year as far as scoring TD's. It happens.

And your last compliment is complete, 100% speculative. I'm not even bothering with it.

[Northman]

Marshall gets triple teamed in Miami thus Bess having more TD's. Pretty hard not having a decent compliment on the other side of him to take some coverage off Marshall. Plus Henne sucks.

Like Rav says, any team in the NFL would rather have Marshall than Lloyd. Theres a reason for that.

Indeed, i will still take a guy who is far more consistent and not a one year wonder anyday of the week. Lloyd is like Derek Anderson.

[Ravage!!!]

far from it. Andre Johnson is an actual deep play threat, Marshall is not.

Andre Johnson also played with David Carr his first years. Who Cutler, Orton and Henne are worlds ahead of.

Uhmm. no. Cutler is better than Car, but Car is the same as Orton, and HEADS above Henne.

[turftoad]

Ok this is absurd abnd I can't believe I initially bought into it. Marshall is NOT getting triple teamed. That's ridiculous. He does get double teamed, just like every other great WR in the NFL. Again, not having a compliment has seemed to work out for guys like Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, and a plethora of others. It's not like it's not working out for Marshall, he's still having a very good season. He's got 81 catches, and he's avering 11.1 ypc. It's the kind of WR he is in the NFL, and he's a damn good one. Marshall didn't exactly have a compliment here in Denver last year. He's just had a down year as far as scoring TD's. It happens.

And your last compliment is complete, 100% speculative. I'm not even bothering with it.

It's funny how Lloyd has ONE, yep, ONE good year in his whole career and just because he wears a Broncos uni some are all over him like paint. :tsk:
The offensive scheme helped him big time. Guess we'll have to see how the next scheme suites him.
I'm not dissing Lloyd, he had a great year and I do like him but Marshall he is not.

[silkamilkamonico]

Indeed, i will still take a guy who is far more consistent and not a one year wonder anyday of the week. Lloyd is like Derek Anderson.

That's terrible Brandon Lloyd bashing. The two are nothing alike. Derek Anderson had flashes of brilliance early in his career, and has regressed to the point of not even being able to beat out John Skelton in Arizona. Brandon Lloyd had flashes of garbage and extreme garbageness, and has now blossomed into 1 of the NFL's best WR's this year.

I don't know about you guys, but I am arguing right now, and not the careers, or past of NFL individuals. It carries absolutely no weight in a "what have you done for me lately" league.

[EMB6903]

Uhmm. no. Cutler is better than Car, but Car is the same as Orton, and HEADS above Henne.

I'd say Orton was slightly ahead of Carr...

youre prob right about Henne though, both suck.

that being said Andre Johnson is an elite WR and a "big play threat"

Something Marshall is not.

[Ravage!!!]

Andre Johnson had 3 seasons over 14 ypc. Brandon Marshall only had 1.

Is there an intermediate then? Because anyone who has followed Marshall's career knows that 2006, his rookie season, was the only season he did anything downfield more than a handful of times throughout the season.


People can take Marshall's 100 catch season in Denver. I'll take Lloyds more yards than any year Marshall had in Denver, along with at least as many TD's.

Again, there's nothing wrong with Marshall's game. You guys act like it's a bad thing.

YOu ssay nothing wrong, but try to take away what he's accomplished. Johnson had also never had a season with more than 8 touchdowns.

Andre had more ypc..but fewer catches, less yardage, and fewer TDs. So what did that extra 1.+ ypc do? :confused:

But taking Lloyd's season isn't a pattern for him, or HE would be considered elite instead of just a one-year wonder.

I think the "label" of a possession receiver is a way of putting Marshall down, because he's no more of a possession receiver than Andre Johnson is, despite some trying to twist it.

[Ravage!!!]

I'd say Orton was slightly ahead of Carr...

youre prob right about Henne though, both suck.

that being said Andre Johnson is an elite WR and a "big play threat"

Something Marshall is not.

:lol: Wait.. you are saying that Marshall is NOT an elite WR???

He absolutely is an elite WR, he's probably top 3 in the NFL.

[silkamilkamonico]

It's funny how Lloyd has ONE, yep, ONE good year in his whole career and just because he wears a Broncos uni some are all over him like paint. :tsk:



Obviously you have not watched any Broncos games this year. Yes, let's completely discredit the only Bronco Po Bowler because we can't get our mouths of the ----- of an ex great Bronco Wr. I'm not comparing the 2 in terms of who's had the better career, you'd have to be a moron to not see that, I'm comparing the 2 as WR's in the NFL for how they are right now.



The offensive scheme helped him big time. Guess we'll have to see how the next scheme suites him.
I'm not dissing Lloyd, he had a great year and I do like him but Marshall he is not.

If the offensive scheme helped him out big time, we need to trade Eddie Royal immediately.

[EMB6903]

Stats are a good way to determine how productive a player is but can be a bit misleading.

When arguing whose better between Andre Johnson and BRandon Marshall stats are def misleading because Marshall is nowhere near Andre Johnsons level.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't know about you guys, but I am arguing right now, and not the careers, or past of NFL individuals. It carries absolutely no weight in a "what have you done for me lately" league.

Thats not true. You wouldn't count on a one-year wonder over a guy that has continued to succeed time and time and time again.

[Ravage!!!]

Stats are a good way to determine how productive a player is but can be a bit misleading.

When arguing whose better between Andre Johnson and BRandon Marshall stats are def misleading because Marshall is nowhere near Andre Johnsons level.

Thats incorrect. Both are in the top 3. Marshall absolutely is in the same breath as Andre.

[EMB6903]

:lol: Wait.. you are saying that Marshall is NOT an elite WR???

He absolutely is an elite WR, he's probably top 3 in the NFL.

LMAO top 3?

Fitz, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Dwyane Bowe?

Brandon Marshall definately isnt a top 3 WR and not close to an elite talent.

[turftoad]

Obviously you have not watched any Broncos games this year. Yes, let's completely discredit the only Bronco Po Bowler because we can't get our mouths of the ----- of an ex great Bronco Wr. I'm not comparing the 2 in terms of who's had the better career, you'd have to be a moron to not see that, I'm comparing the 2 as WR's in the NFL for how they are right now.




If the offensive scheme helped him out big time, we need to trade Eddie Royal immediately.

I don't discredit Lloyd for making the Pro Bowl this year just as I didn't discredit Marshalls MANY Pro Bowls when he was a Bronco. :salute:

[silkamilkamonico]

YOu ssay nothing wrong, but try to take away what he's accomplished. Johnson had also never had a season with more than 8 touchdowns.

Andre had more ypc..but fewer catches, less yardage, and fewer TDs. So what did that extra 1.+ ypc do? :confused:

But taking Lloyd's season isn't a pattern for him, or HE would be considered elite instead of just a one-year wonder.

I think the "label" of a possession receiver is a way of putting Marshall down, because he's no more of a possession receiver than Andre Johnson is, despite some trying to twist it.

I'm not taking anything away from Marshall. I( have hardly done that. I'm saying it how it is. Marshall is a great WR in the NFL. He is NOT a deep threat. Also, you are not acknowledging that Brandon Lloyd was, in fact, one of the best WR's in the NFL this year (Pro Bowl) only because it took him 9 years to actually be an impact player.

It is what it is. Brandon Lloyd is now an impact player.

And you can have your assumption of thinking Marhshall's label as a "possession WR" is a way of putting him down, that's your problem. I am most certainly NOT putting him down.

[silkamilkamonico]

LMAO top 3?

Fitz, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Dwyane Bowe?

Brandon Marshall definately isnt a top 3 WR and not close to an elite talent.

Yea, I wasn't really buying that top 3 either. Marshall is one of the better WR's, but there are WR's you could argue is better than him, and for good reason.

[Ravage!!!]

LMAO top 3?

Fitz, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Dwyane Bowe?

Brandon Marshall definately isnt a top 3 WR and not close to an elite talent.

You are lettting your dislike for him bias your opinion. I can't believe you even put Bowe on the list at all. Marshall is an ELITE top three, maybe four, in the NFL.

I can say that Fitz, Calvin, Andre, and Marshall.. and can EASILY replace Andre with Marshall. Roddy white is a step back from them, but over Bowe.

[turftoad]

Stats are a good way to determine how productive a player is but can be a bit misleading.

When arguing whose better between Andre Johnson and BRandon Marshall stats are def misleading because Marshall is nowhere near Andre Johnsons level.

Same EXACT sitch when comparing Lloyd to Marshall.

[Poet]

This year alone? So you are takign a nine year vet's BEST season against a guy that has had 100 catches 3 times in a row and had his worst year with Chad Henne, as your basis for your argument?

ANY team would take Marshall over Lloyd... period. Thats really all that matters. No one can hand pick seasons and base a players abilities based on that one year, especially if you are going to compare it to another person's worst :lol:

Lloyd had his one good year. Good for him. I'd take Marshall ANY game of the season over Lloyd, and there is a reason that Marshall is considered to be an elite, and Lloyd is considered a one-year wonder.

But anyone who thinks Marshall is elite is wrong. He's never been great at accumalating yards, he's only had ten plus TD's once in his career. He gets a lot of catches but doesn't do a whole lot with them, hence his unimpressive YPC. He's a good WR, but he's a far cry from the top five WR that a lot of people think he is.

He's better on the field than Lloyd is.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm not taking anything away from Marshall. I( have hardly done that. I'm saying it how it is. Marshall is a great WR in the NFL. He is NOT a deep threat. Also, you are not acknowledging that Brandon Lloyd was, in fact, one of the best WR's in the NFL this year (Pro Bowl) only because it took him 9 years to actually be an impact player.

It is what it is. Brandon Lloyd is now an impact player.

And you can have your assumption of thinking Marhshall's label as a "possession WR" is a way of putting him down, that's your problem. I am most certainly NOT putting him down.

I've acknowledged that Lloyd had a great year. But he's NEVER been a top talent in the NFL, and until he can prove he can do it more than once, he still won't be. We have seen a LOT LOT LOT of players have a single good, pro-bowl, season.

[EMB6903]

You are lettting your dislike for him bias your opinion. I can't believe you even put Bowe on the list at all. Marshall is an ELITE top three, maybe four, in the NFL.

I can say that Fitz, Calvin, Andre, and Marshall.. and can EASILY replace Andre with Marshall. Roddy white is a step back from them, but over Bowe.

now top 4?

Tell me Ravage, what makes Marshall a better WR then a player like Greg Jennings?

because he was targetted more?

[silkamilkamonico]

Thats not true. You wouldn't count on a one-year wonder over a guy that has continued to succeed time and time and time again.

One year wonder is assuming that you think Llopyd is going to turn into garbage again next year, and I think that's putting him down. But that could be my problem too.

I get this feeling from you that when it comes to this argument, you want Lloyd to fail miserably next year, instead of him making the circus catches week in and week out to try and help Denver actually be successful.

[Ravage!!!]

But anyone who thinks Marshall is elite is wrong. He's never been great at accumalating yards, he's only had ten plus TD's once in his career. He gets a lot of catches but doesn't do a whole lot with them, hence his unimpressive YPC. He's a good WR, but he's a far cry from the top five WR that a lot of people think he is.

He's better on the field than Lloyd is.

This isn't corrrect at all, King. YOu just dont' like Marshall. He is GREAT after the catch, and Andre Johnson has NEVER had a 10 TD season!

To say he doesn't do anything with the ball after the catch, is NOT being realistic, if you've EVER watched him play.

He is absolutely a top 5 in the NFL. Without a doubt.

[Poet]

You are lettting your dislike for him bias your opinion. I can't believe you even put Bowe on the list at all. Marshall is an ELITE top three, maybe four, in the NFL.

I can say that Fitz, Calvin, Andre, and Marshall.. and can EASILY replace Andre with Marshall. Roddy white is a step back from them, but over Bowe.

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Roddy White. Those guys are all better than Marshall.

Marshall's claim to fame is getting a ton of catches. He gets more catches than almost anyone and still doesn't have a great YPC or yards or TD's. He's not elite.

[Northman]

That's terrible Brandon Lloyd bashing.

Uh, no its not. Its called just being realistic.


The two are nothing alike. Derek Anderson had flashes of brilliance early in his career,

Again, your incorrect. Anderson had one and i do mean ONE solid season in Cleveland and then tanked. Lloyd has had ONE great season in a 9 year career. So do i want a player where it takes 9 years to reach greatness or do i want a player who shines within his first 3 years and plays more consistent football? I will take the latter. Brian Griese was a one year wonder too and how did that work out? Lelie? The same thing.


I don't know about you guys, but I am arguing right now, and not the careers, or past of NFL individuals. It carries absolutely no weight in a "what have you done for me lately" league.

You can argue any point you want, doesnt matter to me. In my mind your completely wrong and out of your mind. lmao

[Ravage!!!]

One year wonder is assuming that you think Llopyd is going to turn into garbage again next year, and I think that's putting him down. But that could be my problem too.

I get this feeling from you that when it comes to this argument, you want Lloyd to fail miserably next year, instead of him making the circus catches week in and week out to try and help Denver actually be successful.

Yeh.. this is definitely YOUR problem. Get that junk out of here and quit that complete BS in your discussions. I could make this point about you complete MELTDOWNS about this complete franchise.

Thats a stupid argument, and has absolutely not substance whatsoever other than an attempt to be a complete a-hole.

[silkamilkamonico]

I've acknowledged that Lloyd had a great year. But he's NEVER been a top talent in the NFL, and until he can prove he can do it more than once, he still won't be. We have seen a LOT LOT LOT of players have a single good, pro-bowl, season.

I'm getting confused on your assumptionsof what top talent in the NFL means.

Every player in the NFL has some kind of unique talent. It's the best athletes, of the thousands of college players that there are on any given year. The HoF does not crown the best on "top talent". They crown the best on actual production and credentials, which IMHO is more important.

Brandon Marshall has had amazing production in the NFL, and if he continues it throughout a long and illustrious career he will probably be mentioned among HoF candidates. Lloyd has virutally no chance at a HoF career, because he was garbage the first 9 years. From you're point of view, I don't understand how he found all this "top talent" all of a sudden to be considered one of NFL's best, and make the Pro Bowl. Could it be the actual "production"?

[Northman]

He's better on the field than Lloyd is.

And that is what im getting at.

[Ravage!!!]

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Roddy White. Those guys are all better than Marshall.

Marshall's claim to fame is getting a ton of catches. He gets more catches than almost anyone and still doesn't have a great YPC or yards or TD's. He's not elite.

He is Elite. He's better than Wayne at this point in Wayn's career, and Roddy hasn't had the consistency either.

These guys are better in your opinion becuase you don't like Marshall. Marshall is an ELITE WR, and is why he was paid as such.

[silkamilkamonico]

Again, your incorrect. Anderson had one and i do mean ONE solid season in Cleveland and then tanked. Lloyd has had ONE great season in a 9 year career. So do i want a player where it takes 9 years to reach greatness or do i want a player who shines within his first 3 years and plays more consistent football? I will take the latter. Brian Griese was a one year wonder too and how did that work out? Lelie? The same thing.



You can argue any point you want, doesnt matter to me. In my mind your completely wrong and out of your mind. lmao

Absolutely terrible. Derek Anderson had one great season, and then regressed to the point of utter garbage, before he was utter garbage. Brandon Lloyd was utter garbage, and has now flourished in his 9th season.

Yolu can make the absolutely ridiculous comparison of him being like Derek Anderson, I'll make the comparison of him more like a Rich Gannon, who was utterly garbage and flourished late.

[Ravage!!!]

From you're point of view, I don't understand how he found all this "top talent" all of a sudden to be considered one of NFL's best, and make the Pro Bowl. Could it be the actual "production"?

I don't understand this statement, since I've said time and time again in that he had a good year.. this year. But until he does it more than once, he's nothing more than a one-year wonder. How is that confusing to you? :confused:

[EMB6903]

my top 10...

1.Andre Johnson 2.Larry Fitzgerald 3.Calvin Johnson 4.Roddy White 5.Reggie Wayne 6.Desean Jackson 7.Brandon Marshall 8.Dwyane Bowe 9.Hakeem Nicks 10.Wes Welker

When you look at the WR stats Marshall would probably appear to have better stats then Desean Jackson but you cant overlook at how many big time game changing plays he makes on a consistent basis, thats why I have Desean so high.

[silkamilkamonico]

Yeh.. this is definitely YOUR problem. Get that junk out of here and quit that complete BS in your discussions. I could make this point about you complete MELTDOWNS about this complete franchise.

Thats a stupid argument, and has absolutely not substance whatsoever other than an attempt to be a complete a-hole.

I'll allow this to be my problem, as long as you don't continute to insinuate my meanings of labeling Brandon Marshall what he is as somehow a knock on him.

Again, you continue to argue your opinion as fact, and everyone elses as garbage.

[claymore]

Marshall beats Lloyd in every single statistical way in a career that is almost half as long as Lloyds.

Marshall is > than lloyd. Lloyd has to have some serious, serious good years to catch up to Marshal. That is a fact.

[Poet]

He is Elite. He's better than Wayne at this point in Wayn's career, and Roddy hasn't had the consistency either.

These guys are better in your opinion becuase you don't like Marshall. Marshall is an ELITE WR, and is why he was paid as such.

No, he's not. He has less yards and TD's and a worse YPC. He is a worse WR than a lot of those elite guys in the league.

Don't tell me how I feel. Actually SHOW something to prove your point.

Marshall is a guy who can beat double coverage. He can get a lot of catches and dominate a game.

Those other guys can beat double coverage. They can get a lot of catches and dominate a game.

The difference is that their get MORE touchdowns, more YARDS and get more YARDS a catch than Marshall.

Don't talk about contracts either. Haynesworth has a huge contract and hasn't lived up to it. Houshmanzadeh got a huge contract and didn't live up to it. That list can go and go and go. You can be elite with a bad contract or be awful with a stud contract.

So if you're going to sit here and say that he's elite, the onus is on YOU because the stats show otherwise.

Less catches, more yards, more TD's > more catches, less yards and less TD's.

[Northman]

Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Roddy White. Those guys are all better than Marshall.

Marshall's claim to fame is getting a ton of catches. He gets more catches than almost anyone and still doesn't have a great YPC or yards or TD's. He's not elite.

Im not going to argue whether Marshall is top 5 or not. But look at those players you just mentioned. Aside from Boldin and maybe Calvin they all have some of the top QB's in the league. Marshall's numbers were his best when playing under Cutler. Since then the guy throwing the ball has been Orton and Henne. Huge difference when it comes to who is actually throwing the football mate. Is it any surprise why Fitz's numbers have dropped?

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't understand this statement, since I've said time and time again in that he had a good year.. this year. But until he does it more than once, he's nothing more than a one-year wonder. How is that confusing to you? :confused:

A one year wonder is someone who only had 1 good year in their career. I didn't realize Brandon Lloyd was retiring aftedr the season. My mistake.

[Ravage!!!]

I'll allow this to be my problem, as long as you don't continute to insinuate my meanings of labeling Brandon Marshall what he is as somehow a knock on him.

Again, you continue to argue your opinion as fact, and everyone elses as garbage.

You labeling him as a possession receiver has NOTHING to do with you claiming I'm wanting Lloyd to do poorly. Your problem is completely different than me asking for a better understanding of symantics.

Don't pull that opinion being expressed as fact, when each and every one of us is doing it. :rolleyes: :coffee:

[Northman]

Absolutely terrible. Derek Anderson had one great season, and then regressed to the point of utter garbage, before he was utter garbage. Brandon Lloyd was utter garbage, and has now flourished in his 9th season.

Yolu can make the absolutely ridiculous comparison of him being like Derek Anderson, I'll make the comparison of him more like a Rich Gannon, who was utterly garbage and flourished late.

Sure you could except Gannon was on the bench most of his early career. :lol:

[silkamilkamonico]

my top 10...

1.Andre Johnson 2.Larry Fitzgerald 3.Calvin Johnson 4.Roddy White 5.Reggie Wayne 6.Desean Jackson 7.Brandon Marshall 8.Dwyane Bowe 9.Hakeem Nicks 10.Wes Welker

When you look at the WR stats Marshall would probably appear to have better stats then Desean Jackson but you cant overlook at how many big time game changing plays he makes on a consistent basis, thats why I have Desean so high.

Be careful. You aren't allowed to have a legitimate opinion here, obviously.

[Ravage!!!]

A one year wonder is someone who only had 1 good year in their career. I didn't realize Brandon Lloyd was retiring aftedr the season. My mistake.

:lol: So after 9 years, you want me to just assume he's going to repeat this, and label him a top WR. I don't do that with anyone. Not going to do it with anyone. I go by what we've seen over time, and don't take a one-year phenom cloud my judgment to believing that Lloyd is all-of-a-sudden a top WR in this league.

I guess you do. But for me, one doesn't make a pattern.

[Poet]

Im not going to argue whether Marshall is top 5 or not. But look at those players you just mentioned. Aside from Boldin and maybe Calvin they all have some of the top QB's in the league. Marshall's numbers were his best when playing under Cutler. Since then the guy throwing the ball has been Orton and Henne. Huge difference when it comes to who is actually throwing the football mate.

I understand that Marshall was boned this year because his QB sucks. He also got hurt. He's still a great player.

Honestly I think Orton helped Marshall out a ton by just locking onto him. Orton, who is worse than Cutler (I swear to god I'm not trying to start anything other than raise a point), kept Marshall's numbers up (and he earned them by being open) by force feeding him the ball. That's why Marshall's stats stayed the same and Royal's and Scheffler's numbers dropped.

But what's killing me here is the argument that stats show Marshall is top five (when they don't if you look at ALL of them) and his contract.

I don't think anyone is going to sell that Llyod is better than Marshall. Lloyd is a mega talented guy. He's fast, he has great hands, his routes aren't bad and he can jump. So why is it that he's never been a stud before? Effort. Dude's been lazy and a headcase up until this point.

Marshall, who also has a history of being a head case, at least produces year in and year out.

So, in that vein, I'll take the proven commodity.

[silkamilkamonico]

You labeling him as a possession receiver has NOTHING to do with you claiming I'm wanting Lloyd to do poorly. Your problem is completely different than me asking for a better understanding of symantics.

Don't pull that opinion being expressed as fact, when each and every one of us is doing it. :rolleyes: :coffee:

You're claiming I'm "putting Lloyd down" by calling it how it is. DO you want to keep insinuating each other's opinions, or is this your world, where you're allowed to do so and others are not?

[silkamilkamonico]

Sure you could except Gannon was on the bench most of his early career. :lol:

LMAO I bet Gannon played more snaps in the NFL than Lloyd did through their first 9 years!

[EMB6903]

Brandon Marshall is only the better player because hes done it longer.

based off each of their best years in their career. Ill take Lloyd, and its not close.

[silkamilkamonico]

:lol: So after 9 years, you want me to just assume he's going to repeat this, and label him a top WR. I don't do that with anyone. Not going to do it with anyone. I go by what we've seen over time, and don't take a one-year phenom cloud my judgment to believing that Lloyd is all-of-a-sudden a top WR in this league.

I guess you do. But for me, one doesn't make a pattern.

I'm not "assuming" anything, that's another one of your problems. I'm "waiting to see". You're already "assumed" he isn't going to do anything ever again by labeling him a "one year wonder", which is someone who only had "one good season". I thought you "never assumed"?

[EMB6903]

in 2007,2008,2009 no WR was thrown to more then Brandon Marshall.

[Ravage!!!]

So if you're going to sit here and say that he's elite, the onus is on YOU because the stats show otherwise.

Less catches, more yards, more TD's > more catches, less yards and less TD's.

YOU JUST told me that Marshall wasn't elite, and used the fact that he did NOT have more than ONE 10 TD season. I just pointed out that Andre Johnson has NEVER had a 10 TD season.

I've pointed out that Marshall, in the first five seasons of his career, has had MORE catches, MORE yards, and MORE TDs than Andre Johnson did in his first five years of his career.

So going by your lil mathmatical equation at the bottom of your post.... Marshall > Andre Johnson

[Northman]

I don't think anyone is going to sell that Llyod is better than Marshall.

Well, Silk is trying his best.


Lloyd is a mega talented guy. He's fast, he has great hands, his routes aren't bad and he can jump. So why is it that he's never been a stud before? Effort. Dude's been lazy and a headcase up until this point.



Nail, coffin.

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't think anyone is going to sell that Llyod is better than Marshall. Lloyd is a mega talented guy. He's fast, he has great hands, his routes aren't bad and he can jump. So why is it that he's never been a stud before? Effort. Dude's been lazy and a headcase up until this point.

Marshall, who also has a history of being a head case, at least produces year in and year out.

So, in that vein, I'll take the proven commodity.


Please don't be logical here, you will not get very far in his neck of the woods.

[Northman]

LMAO I bet Gannon played more snaps in the NFL than Lloyd did through their first 9 years!

Ill take that bet. You have the stats?

[EMB6903]

Marshall had more yards,receptions, TD's then Andre Johnson yet when you watched both of them play you can tell a major difference between the talent.

Andre Johnson is worlds ahead of Marshall as a player.

[Northman]

Brandon Marshall is only the better player because hes done it longer.

based off each of their best years in their career. Ill take Lloyd, and its not close.

Uh no. Lloyd has been doing it longer mate.

[Poet]

YOU JUST told me that Marshall wasn't elite, and used the fact that he did NOT have more than ONE 10 TD season. I just pointed out that Andre Johnson has NEVER had a 10 TD season.

I've pointed out that Marshall, in the first five seasons of his career, has had MORE catches, MORE yards, and MORE TDs than Andre Johnson did in his first five years of his career.

So going by your lil mathmatical equation at the bottom of your post.... Marshall > Andre Johnson

Now go ahead and give me a list of the QB's and teams AJ played on and who BM played on.

It's going to be really close, and one guy was playing on the worst team in the NFL year after year after year.

Marshall is not better than AJ, who is considered to be the best WR in football. Marshall had an easier route to stats during his early years in the NFL than AJ did.

[silkamilkamonico]

Well, Silk is trying his best.



Nail, coffin.

Hey Nastradamus, Can you please throw out more absurd comparisons with Lloyd? We have a Derek Anderson, who has gone from garbage, to one great season like Lloyd, to playing out of his starting job again, and getting cut, to signing with another team and losing his job again to an undrafted free agent rookie QB I think. Anyone else?

[EMB6903]

Uh no. Lloyd has been doing it longer mate.

Im not talking about whose had longer careers, but who has played on a high level for a longer period.

[Ravage!!!]

my top 10...

1.Andre Johnson 2.Larry Fitzgerald 3.Calvin Johnson 4.Roddy White 5.Reggie Wayne 6.Desean Jackson 7.Brandon Marshall 8.Dwyane Bowe 9.Hakeem Nicks 10.Wes Welker

When you look at the WR stats Marshall would probably appear to have better stats then Desean Jackson but you cant overlook at how many big time game changing plays he makes on a consistent basis, thats why I have Desean so high.

Thats a fair list. But when you ahve a list like this, you have some that could just as easily be intertwined with one another, and not really be wrong (meaning some would put Fitz over Johnson and such).

As of right now... I don't put Wayne that high at THIS point of his career, and Desean is a big threat, but isn't the guy you can rely on to make that huge 1st down catch across the middle with three guys hanging on you like the other big boys you have on the list.

After that, I don't think Hakeem is at that level yet, and Bowe has ONLY had this one year and don't know if he's really at this point. I could make a point for the kid in TB (and probably Sims Walker and others) are better than Bowe.

[Poet]

Please don't be logical here, you will not get very far in his neck of the woods.

Now Silk, as 'bad' as Ravage is being, you're not any better.

Lloyd over Marshall? One guy has been a top ten WR for a string of years, the other guy is a talented stud with one great year per nine seasons?

I want to see Lloyd duplicate his success before we talk about him in the same vein as a guy like Marshall.

[silkamilkamonico]

Ill take that bet. You have the stats?

Gannon played in 62 games his first 9 seasons, and at least every snap for 53 of them. COnsidering you thought he was on the bench, I'm off to a pretty good start.

[silkamilkamonico]

Now Silk, as 'bad' as Ravage is being, you're not any better.

Lloyd over Marshall? One guy has been a top ten WR for a string of years, the other guy is a talented stud with one great year per nine seasons?

I want to see Lloyd duplicate his success before we talk about him in the same vein as a guy like Marshall.

Lloyd made the Pro Bowl this year, Did Marshall? The only thing Marshall has is like 9 catches over him, that's it. Lloyd destroys him in every other category. I have not once said that Lloyd has had a better career than Marshall.

[Ravage!!!]

Now go ahead and give me a list of the QB's and teams AJ played on and who BM played on.

It's going to be really close, and one guy was playing on the worst team in the NFL year after year after year.

Marshall is not better than AJ, who is considered to be the best WR in football. Marshall had an easier route to stats during his early years in the NFL than AJ did.

GIve me a list of the other WRs on your list an the QBs they've played with? As I said, I don't really consider Marshall to be better than Andre, but if you are going to give out your lil math equation, quit trying to then tweak it to fit your likes and dislikes.

Wayne has been mentioned many times, who's been his QB for his entire career? Hell... Jerry Rice had both Joe Montana and Steve Young. I guess we need to remove some of the hype around him as well.

Marshall had 100 catch seasons with not only two different QBs, but 2 different seasons.... ONE of which was with Orton. Now he has over 80 catches in Miami, third system in just 5 years, with a guy like Henne. If you want to continue to talk about QBs and systems.. I think Marshall hangs with any of them. I don't think this "Marshall had an easier route" argument holds up.

[Northman]

Hey Nastradamus, Can you please throw out more absurd comparisons with Lloyd? We have a Derek Anderson, who has gone from garbage, to one great season like Lloyd,

Exactly. Why are you struggling with this concept? So your going to have a hissy fit because i dont think he will repeat that feat based off his past performance yet you want to proclaim him a HOF now after just one season? You know how ridiculous you sound right?

[silkamilkamonico]

Exactly. Why are you struggling with this concept? So your going to have a hissy fit because i dont think he will repeat that feat based off his past performance yet you want to proclaim him a HOF now after just one season? You know how ridiculous you sound right?

Anderson is sitting on the bench behind some UFA rookie in Arizona. Lloyd is going to the Pro Bowl.

Yea, I can certainly see the comparison between the 2. SMH /sarcasm

[Northman]

Im not talking about whose had longer careers, but who has played on a high level for a longer period.

Ahh, well yes i agree. Marshall is way better than Lloyd because he is far more consistent playing at a high level than Lloyd is so i agree with you.

[Ravage!!!]

Marshall had more yards,receptions, TD's then Andre Johnson yet when you watched both of them play you can tell a major difference between the talent.

Andre Johnson is worlds ahead of Marshall as a player.

Not worlds ahead. I'm not saying Marshall is better than Johnson. But they are not worlds apart.

[Northman]

Now Silk, as 'bad' as Ravage is being, you're not any better.

Lloyd over Marshall? One guy has been a top ten WR for a string of years, the other guy is a talented stud with one great year per nine seasons?

I want to see Lloyd duplicate his success before we talk about him in the same vein as a guy like Marshall.


Oh no!! Dont be logical King!! Please dont be logical!!

Sorry, had to do it just to be fair with Silk. :lol:

[EMB6903]

Thats a fair list. But when you ahve a list like this, you have some that could just as easily be intertwined with one another, and not really be wrong (meaning some would put Fitz over Johnson and such).

As of right now... I don't put Wayne that high at THIS point of his career, and Desean is a big threat, but isn't the guy you can rely on to make that huge 1st down catch across the middle with three guys hanging on you like the other big boys you have on the list.

After that, I don't think Hakeem is at that level yet, and Bowe has ONLY had this one year and don't know if he's really at this point. I could make a point for the kid in TB (and probably Sims Walker and others) are better than Bowe.


Desean might not be the guy you go to for a first down on 3rd and 7 but he changes games with some of the plays he makes I put him ahead of Marshall off that alone. I cant think of a WR that makes as many "big" plays as him.

I'd say Mike Williams has an argument to be in the top 10 as well, I was debating him or Welker for that 10 spot.. Says something that people are already mentioning him as a potential top 10 WR as a rookie.

[silkamilkamonico]

Oh no!! Dont be logical King!! Please dont be logical!!

Sorry, had to do it just to be fair with Silk. :lol:

That's about as logical as you saying Brandon Marshall would go to the HoF right now!

[Northman]

That's about as logical as you saying Brandon Marshall would go to the HoF right now!

Sad thing for you is i never made that claim. :lol:

[Ravage!!!]

Desean might not be the guy you go to for a first down on 3rd and 7 but he changes games with some of the plays he makes I put him ahead of Marshall off that alone. I cant think of a WR that makes as many "big" plays as him.

I'd say Mike Williams has an argument to be in the top 10 as well, I was debating him or Welker for that 10 spot.. Says something that people are already mentioning him as a potential top 10 WR as a rookie.

He does make plays, for sure. But would he have made as many with Orton or Henne??? I don't know. He's played with McNabb and Vick so far..but not nearly as deadly when with the other guy (forgot his name).. although to be fair, they haven't played many games together.

[silkamilkamonico]

Sad thing for you is i never made that claim. :lol:

You most certainly did. In the same post where you commented me proclaiming Brandon Lloyd to the HoF after 1 season.......


...oh wait..... :lol:

[EMB6903]

Not worlds ahead. I'm not saying Marshall is better than Johnson. But they are not worlds apart.

Marshall is a freakish specimen but has some weaknesses.Not the best ball skills esspecially as a deep threat, he just doesnt find the ball and position himself to go up and get it like Andre can. his Route running is mediocre and for somebody who gets thrown to like he does I dont feel like he gets open that much. Hes an absolute BEAST with the ball in his hands and thats what makes him so exciting but its the little things he doesnt do that seperates him from Andre.

[Poet]

Not worlds ahead. I'm not saying Marshall is better than Johnson. But they are not worlds apart.

There is no one that believes that but you. Ravage, comparable numbers in their first years and AJ had every disadvantage and right now no one would take BM or AJ.

[Northman]

You most certainly did. In the same post where you commented me proclaiming Brandon Lloyd to the HoF after 1 season.......


...oh wait..... :lol:

Em nope. Sorry. I never said Brandon was a HOF. Try harder,

[silkamilkamonico]

Em nope. Sorry. I never said Brandon was a HOF. Try harder,

Try reading comprehension.

"You most certainly did. In the same post where you commented me proclaiming Brandon Lloyd to the HoF after 1 season......."

[Northman]

Try reading comprehension.

"You most certainly did. In the same post where you commented me proclaiming Brandon Lloyd to the HoF after 1 season......."


Sorry, unless you can quote a post where i actually posted it your grasping. Like i said, try harder.

[silkamilkamonico]

Sorry, unless you can quote a post where i actually posted it your grasping. Like i said, try harder.


yet you want to proclaim him a HOF now after just one season?

"Em nope. Sorry. I never" proclaimed "Brandon was a HOF. Try harder,"

[Northman]

"Em nope. Sorry. I never" proclaimed "Brandon was a HOF. Try harder,"

That doesnt say Brandon Marshall. Lol

Now your just trolling man. End of discussion.

[Ravage!!!]

There is no one that believes that but you. Ravage, comparable numbers in their first years and AJ had every disadvantage and right now no one would take BM or AJ.

Thats not true. I've said Andre is a btter WR, but they are not worlds apart. They just aren't.

Your arguments are inconsistent. First it was because of catches, yards, TD... that didn't work. THen it goes to QBs throwing to them, but you want to put Roddy White ahead of Marshall when the only time he's performed well was when he has had Ryan throwing him the ball.

So now Marshall is being put down because he only has 1 more 10 TD season than Andre, but had better QBs. He's not at good as White, but White has only ONE 10 TD season (maybe two after this year), and never performed CLOSE to Marshall until Ryan.

Everything you've pointed out to me crumbles, then you change the criteria.

You don't think Marshall is elite.. Fine. I do. I believe him to be a top 5 (yes, I'm altering to top 5 because I was just typing out numbers without actually thinking of players before when I said 3) WR in the NFL. You haven't shown me a SINGLE thing that tells me, in ANY way, that Marshall isn't an elite WR in this league, and lost credibility in my eyes by telling me that Marshall isn't good after the catch. That tells me one of two things. 1) You don't realy watch him play or 2) you can't look past your dislike for him to see what he does after the catch.

You've stated time and time and time again how you don't like him, so you'll excuse me when I repeat that, and not "telling you how you feel." You've told us many times.

EM made his points and listed his WRs. Some I agree with, some I don't. But the point is.. the top guys aren't worlds ahead like we see in QBs. I'm not the only one to believe this, despite you wanting to believe your opinion is fact on this :D :beer:

[silkamilkamonico]

That doesnt say Brandon Marshall. Lol

Now your just trolling man. End of discussion.

LMAO SMH outstanding. Apparently now you don't even know what you're talking about. That was your quote. End of discussion.

[Ravage!!!]

"Em nope. Sorry. I never" proclaimed "Brandon was a HOF. Try harder,"

How does that prove your point ??

[Northman]

LMAO SMH outstanding. Apparently now you don't even know what you're talking about. That was your quote. End of discussion.

It was my quote about you. It never said anything about Brandon Marshall being a HOF. Are you really that dense? :lol:

[silkamilkamonico]

How does that prove your point ??

So someone can't put words in Northman's posts, but Northman can put words in other's posts. Does this somehow go along the same logic of how you're opinions are facts and everyone elses aren't? I don't know I'm asking.

[silkamilkamonico]

It was my quote about you. It never said anything about Brandon Marshall being a HOF. Are you really that dense? :lol:

And I never said anything about proclaiming Lloyd HoF after one season. Are you that terrible at reading comprehension? :lol:

[Northman]

And I never said anything about proclaiming Lloyd after one season. Are you that terrible at reading comprehension? :lol:


Uh, yea you did. But thanks for playing. :lol:

[silkamilkamonico]

Uh, yea you did. But thanks for playing. :lol:

Another outstanding quoteless and baseless comment. Until you can quote me where I proclaimed Lloyd to the HoF after one season, you are just trolling. "Try harder".

[Northman]

Another outstanding quoteless and baseless comment. Until you can quote me where I proclaimed Lloyd to the HoF after one season, you are just trolling. "Try harder".

http://home.xnet.com/%7Ecmaddox/troll/trollbgone.jpg

[silkamilkamonico]

http://home.xnet.com/%7Ecmaddox/troll/trollbgone.jpg

:lol:

That's what I thought troll!