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View Full Version : My views on what the Broncos should do this offseason



Clipworthy
01-01-2011, 09:14 PM
Everyone is so convinced that D line is the answer for this draft. Sure we need D line, but this high in the draft you HAVE to consider taking pure talent.

---> Patrick Peterson.

A ball hawk, great speed, so much potential. What more do we need on D than a playmaker? We need to cause turnovers and defend the big play aka OUR REAL PROBLEM.

Taking one of these D lineman so high in this draft would be passing on an absolute freak of a defender. A freak like Peterson can have immediate impact, unlike D line when they aren't the level of Suh.

Any D lineman in this draft would struggle to beat out our vets for a starting job year 1.... let's be real.

The best thing for this team is to draft Peterson and address the D line in round 2 (or if they manage to trade up) and through F/A

Do people not realize how much the secondary is hurting the entire defense. Besides champ, no one in the secondary has played well at all. Compared with the D line? Bannan and Williams have played O.K. regardless of what people think.

This defense could become immediately flipped if they brought in a talent like Peterson. Everyone can play off what he brings to the team. Not having to worry as much about the pass will help the front 7 obviously....players up front can play the gaps more without worrying about someone else getting beat

TO DO LIST:
1. Resign Champ
2. Draft Peterson
3. Get some picks for Orton
4. Draft 2 or 3 D lineman in 2nd and 3rd round
5. Draft a speed RB
6. Bring in tons of defensive F/A's


:confused:

Ziggy
01-02-2011, 12:08 AM
Any D lineman in this draft would struggle to beat out our vets for a starting job year 1.... let's be real.


This is where your argument falls apart. Peterson is a stud, but there are more than a couple of Dlineman that could start for the Broncos thier rookie year.

Clipworthy
01-02-2011, 01:46 AM
I'm not convinced that any of those D lineman are worthy of a top 5 pick

zbeg
01-02-2011, 01:50 AM
I'm not convinced that any of those D lineman are worthy of a top 5 pick

Why not?

Clipworthy
01-02-2011, 03:20 AM
I don't see them as the caliber of Suh & Mario....the only D lineman in recent years that were obviously worth a top pick

Clipworthy
01-02-2011, 03:22 AM
This is where your argument falls apart. Peterson is a stud, but there are more than a couple of Dlineman that could start for the Broncos thier rookie year.

lets say your right, there are "more than a couple"...including in later rounds...so why pass on peterson if that is the case? not a chance at finding a talent like peterson later on

Northman
01-02-2011, 03:22 AM
If we draft Peterson i will personally come to your house, take your head and smash it into your tv set.

And no, your wrong. Fairly is quite capable of tearing up the league like Suh.

Clipworthy
01-02-2011, 03:39 AM
can't wait for denver to draft a 4-3 DT to play NT in 3-4 or have to move positions....sounds like a great formula

silkamilkamonico
01-02-2011, 03:54 AM
can't wait for denver to draft a 4-3 DT to play NT in 3-4 or have to move positions....sounds like a great formula

Not nearly as ridiculous as trying the star studded secondary formula, which failed miserably from 2004-2010, give or take a couple injuries.

The NYGiants won the SuperBowl with basically an injury riddled backup secondary.

Clearly shows how terrible of a selection Patrick Patterson, or any CB would be with the first round pick. First couple round picks for that matter.

zbeg
01-02-2011, 03:57 AM
can't wait for denver to draft a 4-3 DT to play NT in 3-4 or have to move positions....sounds like a great formula

It's a better formula than expecting a washed-up DE, a chicken sandwich, the neighbor's cat, and a slightly overcooked quiche to pressure the QB, which is what's going on right now.

UrbanBounca
01-02-2011, 04:07 AM
If we draft Peterson i will personally come to your house, take your head and smash it into your tv set.

And no, your wrong. Fairly is quite capable of tearing up the league like Suh.

I completely disagree. Fairly isn't even close to the caliber player of Suh, not even close!

Personally, I wouldn't mind having Peterson. The kid is an athlete, and can be used in so many different positions on the field. You can't lose with Peterson. There is a place on the field for him somewhere, especially in our ridiculous secondary.

dogfish
01-02-2011, 04:08 AM
can't wait for denver to draft a 4-3 DT to play NT in 3-4 or have to move positions....sounds like a great formula

kind of like building your defense from the back forward?

that's really worked well for us. . .

but hey, why try to move around and get somebody like dareus, watt or paea when you can waste a top five pick on a corner who opposing OCs will routinely ignore since our run defense sucks and none of our safeties or OLBs can cover? lets keep buying curtains for the house when the foundation's crumbling and the roof's falling in-- at least we can enjoy having a physical freak back there. . . whatever DL talent slips through the cracks should be more than sufficient-- take peterson if we pick at #2, grab a DL in the second or third, get a couple shitty FA DLs, and call the defense fixed. . .

or better yet, just keep rolling with what we've got-- those guys are good, right? most teams wish they could roll out a D-line with guys like JWall and bannan-- just about as much as most teams wish they could lose 11 or 12 games a year. . .



This defense could become immediately flipped if they brought in a talent like Peterson. Everyone can play off what he brings to the team. Not having to worry as much about the pass will help the front 7 obviously....players up front can play the gaps more without worrying about someone else getting beat

good point. . . i'm sure a can't miss stud like patty will instill far more confidence in our front seven guys than a first-ballot hall of famer like champ bailey. . . those guys pretty much can't help but step up their game if they know we have the mythical and elusive corner back there who can actually cover multiple receivers for however long it takes. . .

[/boggle]

zbeg
01-02-2011, 04:12 AM
I completely disagree. Fairly isn't even close to the caliber player of Suh, not even close!

Personally, I wouldn't mind having Peterson. The kid is an athlete, and can be used in so many different positions on the field. You can't lose with Peterson. There is a place on the field for him somewhere, especially in our ridiculous secondary.

How can you say that you can't lose with Peterson? The Broncos have one of the two greatest cornerbacks in the history of the National Football League and they've won all of four games this season. It's completely unrealistic to expect anyone - at any point of any draft - to be better than Champ Bailey. So Champ leaves, and he's essentially replaced by a rookie - and the absolute best you can possibly hope for is that that there isn't TOO big of a dropoff in quality.

That's it.

Yes, if Champ leaves and he's replaced by someone who isn't ridiculous, there is a dropoff for sure, but I'm starting to come around on the "having a slightly warm decorative box of hair as your leading pass rusher" plan is not the way to go on defense" idea. You can lose with a ridiculous cornerback. We know this because we have one already.

Let's get some guys who can put some pressure on the QB!

UrbanBounca
01-02-2011, 04:21 AM
How can you say that you can't lose with Peterson? The Broncos have one of the two greatest cornerbacks in the history of the National Football League and they've won all of four games this season. It's completely unrealistic to expect anyone - at any point of any draft - to be better than Champ Bailey. So Champ leaves, and he's essentially replaced by a rookie - and the absolute best you can possibly hope for is that that there isn't TOO big of a dropoff in quality.

That's it.

Yes, if Champ leaves and he's replaced by someone who isn't ridiculous, there is a dropoff for sure, but I'm starting to come around on the "having a slightly warm decorative box of hair as your leading pass rusher" plan is not the way to go on defense" idea. You can lose with a ridiculous cornerback. We know this because we have one already.

Let's get some guys who can put some pressure on the QB!

No, I'm not saying you can't lose as a team. I'm saying you won't be disappointed in drafting a player like Peterson. He is a straight up athlete, and can play anywhere on the field.

IMO, Champ isn't going anywhere. If we lose Champ, people need to be fired.

dogfish
01-02-2011, 04:21 AM
seriously, as far as i'm concerned, this mentality is one of the main reasons we suck so bad-- and i desperately hope the new FO avoids it. . .

we never have the patience to invest in and develop top-quality linemen (clady is the one exception)-- there's always some sexy skill position guy with flashy measureables or skill set that we "can't pass on". . . we spend our high picks on quarterbacks, receivers and DBs. . . the lines always get patched with third-rate talent from the middle rounds and the dregs of FA. . .

and then people ****in' wonder why we're always a soft-ass finesse team that gets pushed around by the big boys. . . it's no mystery. . .

zbeg
01-02-2011, 04:49 AM
No, I'm not saying you can't lose as a team. I'm saying you won't be disappointed in drafting a player like Peterson. He is a straight up athlete, and can play anywhere on the field.

IMO, Champ isn't going anywhere. If we lose Champ, people need to be fired.

Ah, I misinterpreted your "can't lose" remark. That might be true, but I think the draft is about value tempered with need. Peterson has value, but the need isn't nearly as strong as defensive line, where you can also find very high value in addition to meeting the needs of the team.

The ball's in Champ's court now. If he is set on going somewhere that's a contender, there's not a whole lot the Broncos can do at this point. Denver had their chance earlier when Champ was willing to sign a deal, then Bowlen came back from a meeting and pulled the deal off the table.

Clipworthy
01-02-2011, 05:54 AM
Theres no doubt we need D line, but another GLARING need on this defense is playmaking ability. Which is why Peterson does fit a desperate need

And the whole Champ debate....yes he is one of the best no doubt, but that just means the rest of the secondary gets abused...we lack a compliment player on the opposite side that gives the QB no side to turn to on crucial downs

Clipworthy
01-02-2011, 05:57 AM
Not nearly as ridiculous as trying the star studded secondary formula, which failed miserably from 2004-2010, give or take a couple injuries.

The NYGiants won the SuperBowl with basically an injury riddled backup secondary.

Clearly shows how terrible of a selection Patrick Patterson, or any CB would be with the first round pick. First couple round picks for that matter.

yeah....way to bring up the most undeserved superbowl victory in decades :tsk:

Slick
01-02-2011, 08:08 AM
If you could promise me Peterson would not only be as good as you think, but would also score at least 5 or 6 touchdowns a season. be it on defense or special teams, I would find your idea a little less ridiculous.

I still think we have to go D line.

dog said it best. We will continue to get pushed around if we keep putting band aids on a severe wound.

zbeg
01-02-2011, 08:26 AM
Theres no doubt we need D line, but another GLARING need on this defense is playmaking ability. Which is why Peterson does fit a desperate need

And the whole Champ debate....yes he is one of the best no doubt, but that just means the rest of the secondary gets abused...we lack a compliment player on the opposite side that gives the QB no side to turn to on crucial downs

You can also have a guy who disrupts the quarterback off the line on crucial downs. A penetrating pass-rushing DT (or DE in a 3-4) can be just as much of a force on third down, and Nick Fairley fits that description. Or a pass-rushing DE like Da'Quan Bowers.

You can have playmakers at any position on defense. There appear to be several in this draft; I'd prefer one in a position that makes sense when addressing the team's biggest needs.

GEM
01-02-2011, 10:40 AM
We've had a strong secondary for awhile and what good has it done. What good has the front 7 done Bailey since his arrival in Denver? As Denver's front 7 got worse, Bailey's numbers went down. How long has it been since he's had huge interception numbers? And don't just tell me they aren't throwing his direction. He's had to make up in run defense what the front 7 can't get done. A CB isn't supposed to lead your team in tackles, he's supposed to lead your team in int's.

BroncoJoe
01-02-2011, 10:52 AM
Our new VP of Football Operations knows a team needs a couple things to win it all:

1. Running game
2. Great defense

With a healthy O-Line next year with people playing in their natural spots, Moreno will continue to have 100+ yard games. That leaves the defense. I'd guess that'll be Elways main priority.

Dzone
01-02-2011, 11:23 AM
D'quan Bowers got shut out last week in the biggest game of his career. Not sure how significant that will be come draft time. Probably not.

Hopefully, we put Orton on the trading block, Teams start bidding for him and it gets out of control , teams start getting desperate and we get a shockingly high pick for him.

Northman
01-02-2011, 11:37 AM
I completely disagree. Fairly isn't even close to the caliber player of Suh, not even close!

Personally, I wouldn't mind having Peterson. The kid is an athlete, and can be used in so many different positions on the field. You can't lose with Peterson. There is a place on the field for him somewhere, especially in our ridiculous secondary.

Wow, did you just wake up and become a Bronco fan yesterday?

I remember hearing this same thing when Shanahan traded for Champ Bailey because he thought getting Bailey would solve our defensive woes. Its your line of thinking that has plagued this defense for the last 8 years. When are you guys going to learn you need pressure up front to be effective at stopping opposing offenses.

horsepig
01-02-2011, 11:46 AM
Ah, I misinterpreted your "can't lose" remark. That might be true, but I think the draft is about value tempered with need. Peterson has value, but the need isn't nearly as strong as defensive line, where you can also find very high value in addition to meeting the needs of the team.

The ball's in Champ's court now. If he is set on going somewhere that's a contender, there's not a whole lot the Broncos can do at this point. Denver had their chance earlier when Champ was willing to sign a deal, then Bowlen came back from a meeting and pulled the deal off the table.

I get the willies just thinking about all tose high pick DLmen from teams like Cleveland, for instance. Then the thrill of watcging Atwater as a rook, WOW!

Glad I'm just a dumb shit redneck cowboy from the hills. Heck yeah, you take Suh (Cornhusker, after all), but I just don't see anybody close to "can,t miss" like that. I don't know, it all gives me a headache. In my playing days I was a CB and have always enjoyed watching great secondaries, on the other hand, .......

Man, you've got to have the plow horses and road graders up front.

Dzone
01-02-2011, 11:51 AM
No doubt about it, we need defensive stars on the defensive line. Use our first 2 picks on DL, maybe even the 1st 3 picks

Nickademus
01-02-2011, 12:23 PM
I am not sure why he hasnt gotten more attention but I have watched Marcell Dareus a few times now and he has been un-blockable. And when the pressure was on he destroyed the Michigan State O-line and QB's (knocked the starter out of the game). When I saw him against LSU it was the same thing they just couldnt stop him. Add to that that he is a 5tech in a 3-4 already and I would be happy if he was the pick @ 2.

UrbanBounca
01-02-2011, 12:23 PM
Wow, did you just wake up and become a Bronco fan yesterday?

I remember hearing this same thing when Shanahan traded for Champ Bailey because he thought getting Bailey would solve our defensive woes. Its your line of thinking that has plagued this defense for the last 8 years. When are you guys going to learn you need pressure up front to be effective at stopping opposing offenses.

You need both, period. Miami is currently ranked #6 in rushing defense, and they have a losing record.

There are no Suh-like lineman this year that warrant a first round pick.

Northman
01-02-2011, 12:49 PM
You need both, period. Miami is currently ranked #6 in rushing defense, and they have a losing record.

There are no Suh-like lineman this year that warrant a first round pick.


And i disagree. Ive watched Fairly all year and the guy is a playmaker period. You can disagree and thats fine. But this team does not need another CB, we are quite capable of winning with the crew we have there.

Northman
01-02-2011, 12:50 PM
I am not sure why he hasnt gotten more attention but I have watched Marcell Dareus a few times now and he has been un-blockable. And when the pressure was on he destroyed the Michigan State O-line and QB's (knocked the starter out of the game). When I saw him against LSU it was the same thing they just couldnt stop him. Add to that that he is a 5tech in a 3-4 already and I would be happy if he was the pick @ 2.

I would be perfectly fine with him too. But a DB with our first pick would be completely moronic.

atwater27
01-02-2011, 12:54 PM
Everyone is so convinced that D line is the answer for this draft. Sure we need D line, but this high in the draft you HAVE to consider taking pure talent.

---> Patrick Peterson.

A ball hawk, great speed, so much potential. What more do we need on D than a playmaker? We need to cause turnovers and defend the big play aka OUR REAL PROBLEM. Pressure that creates turnovers in the secondary starts up front. That is, with impact defensive lineman, which are the hardest of all positions to find in the league. In addition, if you don't have a decent defensive line to stop the run, we will have drafted a blue chip corner simply to tackle running backs when that's all teams will need to do to beat us. We have to draft to stop the run before we can even think about defending the pass. And if we are smart, those same investments in the line can create passrush, which can make questionable secondaries look like pro bowlers.

Taking one of these D lineman so high in this draft would be passing on an absolute freak of a defender. A freak like Peterson can have immediate impact, unlike D line when they aren't the level of Suh.

Any D lineman in this draft would struggle to beat out our vets for a starting job year 1.... let's be real. Embarassingly wrong.

The best thing for this team is to draft Peterson and address the D line in round 2 (or if they manage to trade up) and through F/A

Do people not realize how much the secondary is hurting the entire defense. Besides champ, no one in the secondary has played well at all. Compared with the D line? Bannan and Williams have played O.K. regardless of what people think. Our corners have done fine. If anything, we need safeties first and foremost in our secondary.

This defense could become immediately flipped if they brought in a talent like Peterson. Everyone can play off what he brings to the team. Not having to worry as much about the pass will help the front 7 obviously....players up front can play the gaps more without worrying about someone else getting beat
Having a top 5 corner didn't help us much this year. Ask Champ if he would rather draft a corner or someone up front that would take some pressure off of him.
TO DO LIST:
1. Resign Champ yes
2. Draft Peterson Fairley
3. Get some picks for Orton yes
4. Draft 2 or 3 D lineman in 2nd and 3rd round that too
5. Draft a speed RB huh?
6. Bring in tons of defensive F/A's
just did that last year.

:confused:

red

Ziggy
01-02-2011, 03:11 PM
The Steelers are the perfect example of how to build a defense. They haven't had a great corner since Rod Woodson played it for them, yet they continue to have a dominant defense. Why? Brett Keisel, Aaron Smith, and Casey Hampton. That's the foundation that has won Super Bowls and allowed that team to be great on D every year. It's a defense that's built from the inside out.

Need another example? How about the Baltimore Ravens. They have been the other dominant defense over the last decade. How many HOF corners have they had during that time?

Lancane
01-02-2011, 03:33 PM
Meth is bad mmmmmkay? :D

UrbanBounca
01-02-2011, 05:46 PM
The Steelers are the perfect example of how to build a defense. They haven't had a great corner since Rod Woodson played it for them, yet they continue to have a dominant defense. Why? Brett Keisel, Aaron Smith, and Casey Hampton. That's the foundation that has won Super Bowls and allowed that team to be great on D every year. It's a defense that's built from the inside out.

Need another example? How about the Baltimore Ravens. They have been the other dominant defense over the last decade. How many HOF corners have they had during that time?

The Ravens have Ed Reed. The Steelers have Troy Polamalu. They both could play CB.
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Ziggy
01-02-2011, 05:48 PM
The Ravens have Ed Reed. The Steelers have Troy Polamalu. They both could play CB.
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But they don't.

UrbanBounca
01-02-2011, 05:53 PM
But they don't.

You're completely missing the point.
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Ziggy
01-02-2011, 06:01 PM
You're completely missing the point.
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Here's my point. For 7 years, the Denver Broncos have had the best cornerback in the NFL over the last decade. Because they haven't had good defensive lines, they've had horrible defenses.

Now, would you like to name a defense that has a horrible defensive line and a great cornerback that has had a consistantly great defense in the NFL?

broken12
01-02-2011, 07:41 PM
trade orton, moreno or morony, trade royal not even used last two years get some good picks for him from shanny or chi town, trade gaffney, all for picks or starters on defense, draft luck if ther at 2 or small trade for him, draft defense later rounds draft qb from washington if didnt get luck!

I Eat Staples
01-02-2011, 10:33 PM
None of our current D-Linemen are capable NFL starters.