Mr. Elway: "Tebow or Luck?"

[WARHORSE]

Elway responded:



Even if the Broncos do land the No. 1 overall pick, they would have to then decide whether Tim Tebow, a first-round pick in April, is their QB of the future or if they would draft the more passing-polished Luck.
Elway was asked as a Broncos' fan, not an executive, what he would do if such a scenario were presented.
"That's a big question," Elway said on his radio show. "I'll tell you this: I think Andrew Luck is the best football player in the draft, without a doubt. If that were to happen, then you're going have to have some very serious conversations of exactly which direction you want to go, whether it's with Tim or take a guy like Andrew Luck. To me, barring injury, he's going to be very successful in the NFL."



Told ya he was fawning all over Luck. Stanford man to Stanford man.
If Luck comes out, we will be checking his oil.............

Read more: Broncos, Elway still talking - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16939597#ixzz199LZNJy6
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

[UnderArmour]

Smokescreen. Panthers go defense after Bowers or Quinn has a great combine, and a desperate team trades up with us. The Steelers tried to get the #1 pick from the Rams last year for something like Roethlisburger, also the Redskins last year. Some team will pay big to move up, might even be Mike Shanahan's Redskins(albeit they have like no draft picks to send us anymore). I don't buy it. Tebow is our guy.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Read his words.

He says Luck is the best QB in the draft.
In the draft. In the 2011 draft.

Sure, IF luck comes out... and IF Luck falls to us...
then it WOULD be obvious we'd have to decide between taking Luck with the #1 pick...
or draft a defensive stud with the #1 pick and run with Tebow.
By taking Luck... it is understood that defense will be ignored once agin.

He basicly commented on that combination of events
and what the Broncos would be faced with if it happened that way.

I saw nowhere that Elway said Luck is better than Tebow.

[Lancane]

Read his words.

He says Luck is the best QB in the draft.
In the draft. In the 2011 draft.

Sure, IF luck comes out... and IF Luck falls to us...
then it WOULD be obvious we'd have to decide between taking Luck with the #1 pick...
or draft a defensive stud with the #1 pick and run with Tebow.
By taking Luck... it is understood that defense will be ignored once agin.

He basicly commented on that combination of events
and what the Broncos would be faced with if it happened that way.

I saw nowhere that Elway said Luck is better than Tebow.

He said as much nearly two weeks ago on his radio show. And almost every major NFL analyst said that last Sunday, Tebow did alright but was far from showing enough to be even considered an NFL ready quarterback. Keep the faith and keep defending him brother, because if Tebow puts up similar numbers to last week in a still conservative gameplan, the more and more it will look like he is far from ready or that he is indeed the future franchise quarterback of this team.

Right now, there is a huge possibility that Luck will be a Bronco next year if we are indeed within reaching distance.

[Rick]

Heres hoping Tebow continues to show something in these last 2 games...

We need defence....

[Nomad]

Reading the comments from the article, it would be ironic if the BRONCOS picked Luck and he refused to play for the BRONCOS!!

This tells me Elway will/is planning on breaking the bank to get Andrew Luck if the young man decides to declare for the 2011 draft!! Who needs defense when you have Luck on your side!!:madgrin:

[Lancane]

Smokescreen. Panthers go defense after Bowers or Quinn has a great combine, and a desperate team trades up with us. The Steelers tried to get the #1 pick from the Rams last year for something like Roethlisburger, also the Redskins last year. Some team will pay big to move up, might even be Mike Shanahan's Redskins(albeit they have like no draft picks to send us anymore). I don't buy it. Tebow is our guy.

We also tried to trade up for Bradford UA, that was leaked a few months back. McDaniels did not even want Orton to be the starter according to insiders, he wanted Quinn or Tebow to be! What does that tell you? When the two guys you counted on to lead this team are not even capable enough so that you'd pull the starter you didn't want in the first place?

Tebow is in audition mode just like Studesville, and if the organization feels he's lacking, they'll be spending that first pick on Orton's real replacement.

[Superchop 7]

For heavens sake......get us some Defense and give Tebow a chance to develop. It's this type of thinking that has ruined the defensive side of the ball.

[Nomad]

Perhaps Luck can play defense as well!!:lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF9PFJI_t5I

[silkamilkamonico]

Denver's in a conundrum. The one year we get a top 2-3 pick, the 2 best players will not help us.

Everyone knows the Luck and Tebow dilemma. Bowers is a 4-3 DE, and we run a 3-4, so Bowers is not really going to do much for us either.

[Northman]

At this point in time we would be morons to draft Luck.

[Lonestar]

no offense (pun intended) but we have 3 QB's on the team under contract right now.

We do not need another one regardless of the potential of "luck".

We need defense, have needed defense, it has been virtually ignored for a decade.

Get the defense fixed and frankly the QB's we have will be more than adequate. NO ONE thought that Tebow was anything but a 2 -3 year project that he was a high reward risk to take. Now y'all are saying if he does not produce in 2 more games he is a bust.

I hope none of you are ever in a position of authority on the broncos.

Even Elway needed a D to win a Super bowl, he also needed more offense than what he had around him.

Lets not go through that scenario again, just to beat our breasts saying we have the best QB in the league.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it again.

[horsepig]

This is a tough one. My gut says go with Tebow and stcok up the damned defense with young talent. Tebow is a proven winner like none I've ever seen, I just don't see why he can't transfer that ability to the pros like he has at every level. And not to a small degree either. He's always defied the odds and won BIG!

Luck could be one of those guys that can carry a team though. I say pull the trigger on the defense, though. There will always be a few great QB's out there, IMO. It seems to me that there's a growing abundance of QB talent coming along every year. If you believe that, you must draft for the trenches to be competitive, which I've always believed anyway.

[nevcraw]

Take Luck and trade after.. there will be a huge market for him and we would end up with better comp than a trade down...
If they trully believe Tebow is is years away - Keep luck, and develop both - decide in 2-3 years who to keep. but the defense could be made servicable overnight with a the spoils of an Luck trade..

[SR]

Take Luck and trade after.. there will be a huge market for him and we would end up with better comp than a trade down...
If they trully believe Tebow is is years away - Keep luck, and develop both - decide in 2-3 years who to keep. but the defense could be made servicable overnight with a the spoils of an Luck trade..

That idea is worse than drafting Luck, period.

Drafting Luck is an awful idea. We need defense, as has been the story for the last 20 years. If we draft talent and bring in a puzzle piece here and there, our defense will be solid and we won't need a stud QB to win. If Tebow only amounts to mediocre (which I don't see happening, he'll either be great or awful) but we have a top 10 defense we can win.

[BroncoWave]

If we draft Luck we have the most incompetent organization in the NFL. We have a good young QB. We don't have a defense.

[Chris90210]

A strong defense and O line can help mold a QB so until we have those positions fixed we do not need to look at another QB who is destined to be beat to hell. After our d and O line are fixed we should just run with tebow to see what he has. (this is coming from someone who was screaming not so nice things at the TV whenever I saw what had transpired)

[Chris90210]

and we need a good coaching staff and front office

[BORDERLINE]

We have Tebow i'm sure Luck is a good QB I don't watch much College football..

but this team needs a D-Linemen...

Tebow will be great he just needs time....

focus on the defense please!!!!!!

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm going minority and saying Draft Luck. You can build a dynasty around a guy like Luck. Good defenses still need good offenses to win (Miami/Washington/etc). Luck is going to be THAT good, IMHO.

If Manning/Brady/Brees/etc are in the draft, you are an absolute fool to not take them regardless of your defense. And yes, I'm insinuating Luck is going to be that good. It is my opinion.

Just think, everyone thought St Louis was coompletely idiotic for taking Bradford with the miserable state of their defense last year.

[claymore]

I'm going minority and saying Draft Luck. You can build a dynasty around a guy like Luck. Good defenses still need good offenses to win (Miami/Washington/etc). Luck is going to be THAT good, IMHO.

If Manning/Brady/Brees/etc are in the draft, you are an absolute fool to not take them regardless of your defense. And yes, I'm insinuating Luck is going to be that good. It is my opinion.

Just think, everyone thought St Louis was coompletely idiotic for taking Bradford with the miserable state of their defense last year.

I agree a 100%. Worst case scenario both him and Tebow suck ass. Best case scenario Luck and Tebow are future HOF'ers. Truth is probably in the middle, and if it only takes one draft to seal the deal on ensuring a solid to great starting QB then sign me up. We can always unload the guy that doesnt start to recoup some of the picks we originally lost.

[Nomad]

Interesting take, all 3 QBs drafted #1 overall in their draft classes from Stanford never won a SB with the team that drafted them.

[silkamilkamonico]

I agree a 100%. Worst case scenario both him and Tebow suck ass. Best case scenario Luck and Tebow are future HOF'ers. Truth is probably in the middle, and if it only takes one draft to seal the deal on ensuring a solid to great starting QB then sign me up. We can always unload the guy that doesnt start to recoup some of the picks we originally lost.

I think you can even look back at our offense led by Cutler. If we had a competent coach (meaning someone with a sense of defense), we could have done great things with Cutler and that offense and rebuilt the defense to surround that type of offense.

Denver is never going to have a defense like Baltimore/Pittsburgh that can carry us. It just simply isn't a staple of our organization. Our organization has always prided itself on offense.

[sneakers]

We need more Quarterbacks!!

[silkamilkamonico]

Interesting take, all 3 QBs drafted #1 overall in their draft classes from Stanford never won a SB with the team that drafted them.

Thatwould really suck to go on something based on that, considering no Heisman winning QB has panned out in the NFL since the merger.

[silkamilkamonico]

We need an elite Quarterback like the rest of the current dynasties in the NFL!!

Fixed it for you... :)

[Nomad]

Thatwould really suck to go on something based on that, considering no Heisman winning QB has panned out in the NFL since the merger.

Meh.... I was reading it somewhere and thought it was interesting, no need to get your panties in a bunch!!

[BroncoWave]

Thatwould really suck to go on something based on that, considering no Heisman winning QB has panned out in the NFL since the merger.

Carson Palmer, Vinny Testaverde, and Doug Flutie say hi. Sure, none of those were hall-of-famers but I would say they panned out.

[silkamilkamonico]

Carson Palmer, Vinny Testaverde, and Doug Flutie say hi. Sure, none of those were hall-of-famers but I would say they panned out.

LMAO I wouldn't. If we're worried about someone "panning out", we might as well keep Kyle Orton. If we're worried about building a dynasty with an elite QB, we should have steered clear from Heisman trophy winners.

[BroncoWave]

LMAO I wouldn't. If we're worried about someone "panning out", we might as well keep Kyle Orton. If we're worried about building a dynasty with an elite QB, we should have steered clear from Heisman trophy winners.

Before Peyton Manning no Tennessee quarterback had ever done crap in the NFL. Good thing for the Colts they didn't steer clear from Tennessee quarterbacks.

Should I show more examples of why your logic is retarded?

[Lancane]

Carson Palmer, Vinny Testaverde, and Doug Flutie say hi. Sure, none of those were hall-of-famers but I would say they panned out.

Palmer is a hand's span from being booted out of Cincinnati, Testaverde is a mediocre journeyman that couldn't even beat out Griese or Boller, and Flutie? Really? That's like comparing Steve DeBerg to Joe Montana!

:lol:

[BroncoWave]

Palmer is a hand's span from being booted out of Cincinnati, Testaverde is a mediocre journeyman that couldn't even beat out Griese or Boller, and Flutie? Really? That's like comparing Steve DeBerg to Joe Montana!

:lol:

Palmer's career has been ruined by Marvin Lewis. He looked on the verge of becoming elite up until a couple of years ago. I think with a change of scenery he could still wind up with a good finish to his career.

[Lancane]

Before Peyton Manning no Tennessee quarterback had ever done crap in the NFL. Good thing for the Colts they didn't steer clear from Tennessee quarterbacks.

Should I show more examples of why your logic is retarded?

Look at the rate of Tennessee quarterbacks gone pro to Florida quarterbacks that have and the ratio of failure differential between those two schools alone. Then add in the Heisman ratio of failure for quarterbacks since the merger like Silk pointed out and it's dimmer. How about the ratio of successful left-handed quarterbacks in the NFL. So not one but three? I'm not saying he'll fail, but the odds of success are not in his favor, not even close.

[BroncoWave]

Look at the rate of Tennessee quarterbacks gone pro to Florida quarterbacks that have and the ratio of failure differential between those two schools alone. Then add in the Heisman ratio of failure for quarterbacks since the merger like Silk pointed out and it's dimmer. How about the ratio of successful left-handed quarterbacks in the NFL. So not one but three? I'm not saying he'll fail, but the odds of success are not in his favor, not even close.

How many of those Heisman QBs played in the same system as Tebow? How many of them have the same skillset at Tebow? How many of them have the same physical qualities as Tebow?

Who cares if they all have the Heisman trophy in common? That means absolutely nothing when it comes to looking at a player's football ability. Sam Bradford also won the Heisman and everyone is ready to declare him a Hall-of-Famer already.

Using the Heisman to say a player won't be a good quarterback has to be one of the most idiotic things I have ever read. Correlation does not equal causation. That's science 101.

[Lonestar]

This is a tough one. My gut says go with Tebow and stock up the damned defense with young talent. Tebow is a proven winner like none I've ever seen, I just don't see why he can't transfer that ability to the pros like he has at every level. And not to a small degree either. He's always defied the odds and won BIG!

Luck could be one of those guys that can carry a team though. I say pull the trigger on the defense, though. There will always be a few great QB's out there, IMO. It seems to me that there's a growing abundance of QB talent coming along every year. If you believe that, you must draft for the trenches to be competitive, which I've always believed anyway.

Your correct lots of talent EVERY year.

We do not have to have another John Elway to win. That has been a failure
for more than a decade. We got to a super blow before elway and frankly got our butts kicked several times with him. Because the rest of the TEAM was not play off caliber.

I know that no one wants to admit that we have had a player deficit for along time, getting along with decent players that the coach covered with smoke and mirrors. We had zero depth and the starters we did have most likely would have not started on most GOOD teams in the NFL might have been depth quality but certainly not starters save for a couple of players.
Clady, Marshall, cutler, Champ and maybe DJ. Beyond that spot players (Doom) and backups.

I look at it this way who would be starters for SAn, INDY, NE, PIT. if they are not good enough to start for them IMO that means they are back ups.



That idea is worse than drafting Luck, period.

Drafting Luck is an awful idea. We need defense, as has been the story for the last 20 years. If we draft talent and bring in a puzzle piece here and there, our defense will be solid and we won't need a stud QB to win. If Tebow only amounts to mediocre (which I don't see happening, he'll either be great or awful) but we have a top 10 defense we can win.


Not sure it has been 20 years but at least 12.

Had we been drafting DL on day one every third year and IF they all turned into good/great players we would have won a lot more games over the years. OUR offense would not have been having to come back and win in the 4th quarter or squeak by because the other team just could not quite beat us.

Having the best LBs in the world means zip if they are being destroyed by their OLINE getting to the second level consistently. Having an all world CB (Champ) means nothing if the QB has all day to pick us apart.

YOU WIN OR LOSE on the LOS.. if you look at the good teams that is were the winning just look at their oline and dline. You will see outstanding LOS play.

Something he have lacked for a looooong time on the DLine and while the ZBS gave us decent running it was never successful (playoff wins) after John, TD, ZIm and the rest of those Super blow players retired

Those are the facts, mikey or Josh both failed getting a dominating LOS play.

[claymore]

I think you can even look back at our offense led by Cutler. If we had a competent coach (meaning someone with a sense of defense), we could have done great things with Cutler and that offense and rebuilt the defense to surround that type of offense.

Denver is never going to have a defense like Baltimore/Pittsburgh that can carry us. It just simply isn't a staple of our organization. Our organization has always prided itself on offense.

Again, I agree a 100%. Hopefully the football gods have seen we suffered enough, and give us the best thing for the team whatever that may be. I think its luck...

[BroncoWave]

I'm not sure what's dumber, people using the Heisman to say Tebow won't be a good QB, or people salivating over Luck because he went to Stanford like Elway.

[BroncoWave]

What if Cam Newton had been declared ineligible and Luck had wound up winning the Heisman? Would that suddenly mean the Broncos shouldn't draft him? I just want to see how strongly you guys will stand beside this logic.

[Lancane]

Palmer's career has been ruined by Marvin Lewis. He looked on the verge of becoming elite up until a couple of years ago. I think with a change of scenery he could still wind up with a good finish to his career.

Palmer may or may not have, same for Leinart, Carr, Griese and a slew of others, he wouldn't be the first to have potential that was never truly utilized or developed, even used correctly. Point is that until he does prove to be more then that track record remains true for Heisman quarterbacks. Bradford could be the next Palmer, you have no clue nor do I.

Point is that the organization might feel differently, I'm not saying they do or do not...but if they do, we may be drafting Luck and to hell with what fans believe or think, because fans want a winner! If we end up drafting Luck and he ends up being the next Elway while Tebow ends up being nothing but mediocre or a backup in the NFL, even the next Vick, we win. If we pass on Luck and Tebow ends up being the next McNabb and Luck is more akin to Manning then fans would still be pissed we kept Tebow instead, that's the reality of it. McNabb for all his ability hasn't won shit and isn't even considered in the same circle as Manning or Brady, neither is Vick.

If we do draft Luck, then so be it...I won't bitch, because I don't see what they see, you want to believe in Tebow, but what if Tebow really isn't that good and really is a long-term project? Defense won't mean shit! After all, Pittsburgh didn't win crap till they had Big Ben.

[claymore]

I'm not sure what's dumber, people using the Heisman to say Tebow won't be a good QB, or people salivating over Luck because he went to Stanford like Elway.
The worst part is A. We are in a position to draft that high, and B. No position outside of LT/WR is set on our team. Our needs are all over the place.

I think the argument many have for luck is that QB is a huge piece of the puzzle taken all at once. Versus many pieces of the puzzle over many years.

We dont have a defensive mind yet to manage whatever defensive stallion exists at that high of a pick. But we do have Elway who could groom, and manage a QB until we get our front office / coaching staff in concrete.

[Lancane]

What if Cam Newton had been declared ineligible and Luck had wound up winning the Heisman? Would that suddenly mean the Broncos shouldn't draft him? I just want to see how strongly you guys will stand beside this logic.

Over the last ten or so years, more Heisman winning quarterbacks have been drafted in the mid to late rounds then in the first or second. Why is that? Did any prove to be worthy of being picked so high? Even those who fell through the cracks were mediocre, and I'm sure that Arizona would love to have the first they spent on Leinart back right now.

Is it really a failed logic or something quite proven that you just don't want to see?

;)

[BroncoWave]

Palmer may or may not have, same for Leinart, Carr, Griese and a slew of others, he wouldn't be the first to have potential that was never truly utilized or developed, even used correctly. Point is that until he does prove to be more then that track record remains true for Heisman quarterbacks. Bradford could be the next Palmer, you have no clue nor do I.

Point is that the organization might feel differently, I'm not saying they do or do not...but if they do, we may be drafting Luck and to hell with what fans believe or think, because fans want a winner! If we end up drafting Luck and he ends up being the next Elway while Tebow ends up being nothing but mediocre or a backup in the NFL, even the next Vick, we win. If we pass on Luck and Tebow ends up being the next McNabb and Luck is more akin to Manning then fans would still be pissed we kept Tebow instead, that's the reality of it. McNabb for all his ability hasn't won shit and isn't even considered in the same circle as Manning or Brady, neither is Vick.

If we do draft Luck, then so be it...I won't bitch, because I don't see what they see, you want to believe in Tebow, but what if Tebow really isn't that good and really is a long-term project? Defense won't mean shit! After all, Pittsburgh didn't win crap till they had Big Ben.

Had the NCAA done the right thing and declared Cam Newton ineligible, Luck would have won the Heisman. Would that have diminished his value or potential at all in your eyes?

[BroncoWave]

Over the last ten or so years, more Heisman winning quarterbacks have been drafted in the mid to late rounds then in the first or second. Why is that? Did any prove to be worthy of being picked so high? Even those who fell through the cracks were mediocre, and I'm sure that Arizona would love to have the first they spent on Leinart back right now.

Is it really a failed logic or something quite proven that you just don't want to see?

;)

You didn't answer my question. Had Newton rightly been declared ineligible and Luck won the Heisman, would that have lessened his value or potential in your eyes?

[silkamilkamonico]

Before Peyton Manning no Tennessee quarterback had ever done crap in the NFL. Good thing for the Colts they didn't steer clear from Tennessee quarterbacks.

Should I show more examples of why your logic is retarded?

Perhaps you should steer that to nomad, not me. You're using that retarded logic to somehow compare with my retarded logic next to the retarded logic of Stanford QB's not succeeding with the team that drafted them. Are you getting it now?

[silkamilkamonico]

Using the Heisman to say a player won't be a good quarterback has to be one of the most idiotic things I have ever read. Correlation does not equal causation. That's science 101.

This is an outstnding post. From now on, I can quote this to the Tebow nutriders who constantnly use the "he's the heisman winning QB" as an argument for him so they can see just how idiotic it is for anyone to continue arguing that.

[atwater27]

. We have a good young QB. .

That is definitely not a fact.

[BroncoWave]

This is an outstnding post. From now on, I can quote this to the Tebow nutriders who constantnly use the "he's the heisman winning QB" as an argument for him so they can see just how idiotic it is for anyone to continue arguing that.

I, myself, have never used that as an argument for him. I realize there are those who have but if you take out the Florida fans, almost no one is using that argument.

[Nomad]

Perhaps you should steer that to nomad, not me. You're using that retarded logic to somehow compare with my retarded logic next to the retarded logic of Stanford QB's not succeeding with the team that drafted them. Are you getting it now?

All I did was mention a take I read, you went drama queen over it and overanalyzed it!! Besides for a guy who's bitch. moaned and whined about defense the many years to all of a sudden jump on a QB's bandwagon leads me to believe, you are clueless!!

[Lonestar]

I'm going minority and saying Draft Luck. You can build a dynasty around a guy like Luck. Good defenses still need good offenses to win (Miami/Washington/etc). Luck is going to be THAT good, IMHO.

If Manning/Brady/Brees/etc are in the draft, you are an absolute fool to not take them regardless of your defense. And yes, I'm insinuating Luck is going to be that good. It is my opinion.

Just think, everyone thought St Louis was completely idiotic for taking Bradford with the miserable state of their defense last year.

Washington is hardly a good defense this year.. last time I looked they are #32.

if your qb is always behind 2-3 tds all he is going to do is get his ass beat all to hell.

Fix the DL with the picks IF you have to use more picks on the team Trade Orton as we have Quinn as a back up.

[Lancane]

You didn't answer my question. Had Newton rightly been declared ineligible and Luck won the Heisman, would that have lessened his value or potential in your eyes?

I did answer your question, I said that many place value in those who do not win the Heisman over those who do. Some will not openly admit as much, just like some will not admit that a strong armed quarterback is prefered over those with weaker arms, even if they are more consistent then those with cannons. Just like mobility to throwing ability is less important in many eyes, or being left-handed or from Florida. I have less concerns that Tebow is a Heisman winner rather then he is a left-handed Heisman winner from a program known for producing busts at the NFL level. I'd have been fine with Bradford, I'd be alright with Luck even if he won the damn thing. Just like I admit I am biased against black quarterbacks, not because their skin tone...but because most have proven to be failures at the pro level at the position and with how the NFL is a pass happy league and has been so for some time, they don't transition as well, but I also am the same with white cornerbacks!

[Lonestar]

I'm not sure what's dumber, people using the Heisman to say Tebow won't be a good QB, or people salivating over Luck because he went to Stanford like Elway.
:salute::salute::salute::salute:
and it must be because he did not win the Heisman. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[silkamilkamonico]

What if Cam Newton had been declared ineligible and Luck had wound up winning the Heisman? Would that suddenly mean the Broncos shouldn't draft him? I just want to see how strongly you guys will stand beside this logic.

What iof Sam Bradford didn't go to the NFL last year, and stayed for his final season, had a humongous year, and won the heisman? WOuld he not have as solid of a rookie season as he is having this year?

What if the NCAA saw just how special Tebow was, granted him a special expemtion of playing an extra year, and he had an amazing season an won the heisman, would that mean he would have a different NFL career? Has their been a 2X heisman winning QB that has actually done something in the NFL?

[Northman]

The worst part is A. We are in a position to draft that high, and B. No position outside of LT/WR is set on our team. Our needs are all over the place.

I think the argument many have for luck is that QB is a huge piece of the puzzle taken all at once. Versus many pieces of the puzzle over many years.

We dont have a defensive mind yet to manage whatever defensive stallion exists at that high of a pick. But we do have Elway who could groom, and manage a QB until we get our front office / coaching staff in concrete.

Had we not drafted Tebow i would have no problem taking luck. But again, you dont put that kind of money into 2 first round QB's when you have nothing else. As too the example of Bradford in St. Louis that is crap too. Their QB position was terrible and thats why Bulger was cut loose. They still have other problems but QB was a definite problem for them so taking Bradford wasnt dumb on their part.

But when it comes to us, we just dont know what we have in Tebow and unfortuantely thanks to McD 3 games just isnt going to give you enough to go on to justify drafting luck. Its better to start working on the defense and get a "quality" Dlineman for a change rather than play musical chairs with the QB position when there's nothing there to help them out. Right now, we need to ride with Tebow and draft other areas that we need more than the QB position.

The hype around Luck is no different than the hype for Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, etc.

[BroncoWave]

I did answer your question, I said that many place value in those who do not win the Heisman over those who do. Some will not openly admit as much, just like some will not admit that a strong armed quarterback is prefered over those with weaker arms, even if they are more consistent then those with cannons. Just like mobility to throwing ability is less important in many eyes, or being left-handed or from Florida. I have less concerns that Tebow is a Heisman winner rather then he is a left-handed Heisman winner from a program known for producing busts at the NFL level. I'd have been fine with Bradford, I'd be alright with Luck even if he won the damn thing. Just like I admit I am biased against black quarterbacks, not because their skin tone...but because most have proven to be failures at the pro level at the position and with how the NFL is a pass happy league and has been so for some time, they don't transition as well.

Nope, you still didn't answer my question. Perhaps if I ask it one last time you will. It's a very simple question, really. Only requires a yes or a no.

Had Cam Newton been declared ineligible and had Luck won the Heisman, would that have diminished his potential or value in your eyes? Just a simple yes or no will do.

[Lonestar]

I think you can even look back at our offense led by Cutler. If we had a competent coach (meaning someone with a sense of defense), we could have done great things with Cutler and that offense and rebuilt the defense to surround that type of offense.

Denver is never going to have a defense like Baltimore/Pittsburgh that can carry us. It just simply isn't a staple of our organization. Our organization has always prided itself on offense.

Why not?

[BroncoWave]

What iof Sam Bradford didn't go to the NFL last year, and stayed for his final season, had a humongous year, and won the heisman? WOuld he not have as solid of a rookie season as he is having this year?

What if the NCAA saw just how special Tebow was, granted him a special expemtion of playing an extra year, and he had an amazing season an won the heisman, would that mean he would have a different NFL career? Has their been a 2X heisman winning QB that has actually done something in the NFL?

You're proving my point. None of that would have any effect on their NFL careers. You are either a good pro QB or you aren't. The opinion of some college football writers who vote for an award has literally zero impact on that.

[Lancane]

Nope, you still didn't answer my question. Perhaps if I ask it one last time you will. It's a very simple question, really. Only requires a yes or a no.

Had Cam Newton been declared ineligible and had Luck won the Heisman, would that have diminished his potential or value in your eyes? Just a simple yes or no will do.

Read carefully this time, maybe you need glasses! It's there, the answer really is. You quoted the answer as well, it is there...I promise.

[atwater27]

It is widely considered common sense logic in the NFL to take a franchise caliber QB when given the opportunity unless you have one already (Either young or in his prime). 9 out of 10 times in our drafts I will say select defense in the 1st round. This time I also say select a defensive player in the first round. The only exception is if Mr. Luck is available. Other than that, it is a no brainer. This is pretty cut and dry. No need to turn it into a monumental pro-Tebow or anti-Tebow war.

[silkamilkamonico]

All I did was mention a take I read, you went drama queen over it and overanalyzed it!! Besides for a guy who's bitch. moaned and whined about defense the many years to all of a sudden jump on a QB's bandwagon leads me to believe, you are clueless!!

I'll make sure I point this out to Baileythebest, who was the one who's flipped out over this. I, like you, was simply pointing it out there for a read, and then our points were utterly attacked. You need to settle down, and understand that we aren't going to fix defense with one draft. It does not happen in the NFL. And please quit your bitching and moaning, you clueless drama queen.

[atwater27]

Had we not drafted Tebow i would have no problem taking luck. But again, you dont put that kind of money into 2 first round QB's when you have nothing else. As too the example of Bradford in St. Louis that is crap too. Their QB position was terrible and thats why Bulger was cut loose. They still have other problems but QB was a definite problem for them so taking Bradford wasnt dumb on their part.

But when it comes to us, we just dont know what we have in Tebow and unfortuantely thanks to McD 3 games just isnt going to give you enough to go on to justify drafting luck. Its better to start working on the defense and get a "quality" Dlineman for a change rather than play musical chairs with the QB position when there's nothing there to help them out. Right now, we need to ride with Tebow and draft other areas that we need more than the QB position.

The hype around Luck is no different than the hype for Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, etc.

Very rarely has there been a unanimous consensus on a QB coming out of college. Akili and Joey had their detractors in scouting departments and among coaches. Virtually everyone regards Luck as a can't miss prospect, with everything needed to excel at the next level.

[silkamilkamonico]

Washington is hardly a good defense this year.. last time I looked they are #32.

if your qb is always behind 2-3 tds all he is going to do is get his ass beat all to hell.

Fix the DL with the picks IF you have to use more picks on the team Trade Orton as we have Quinn as a back up.

Washington had a top 10 defense in the NFL last year....and they won 4 games.

[BroncoWave]

Read carefully this time, maybe you need glasses! It's there, the answer really is. You quoted the answer as well, it is there...I promise.

My mistake, you did answer it. So by saying you would have drafted Bradford or Luck (had he won the Heisman or not) you are admitting that your theory is complete bullshit.

[atwater27]

Washington had a top 10 defense in the NFL last year....and they won 4 games.

KaBOOM goes the lonestar's argument....:beer:

[BroncoWave]

Very rarely has there been a unanimous consensus on a QB coming out of college. Akili and Joey had their detractors in scouting departments and among coaches. Virtually everyone regards Luck as a can't miss prospect, with everything needed to excel at the next level.

Ryan Leaf was considered a can't-miss prospect as well. There is no such thing as a can't miss prospect.

[Northman]

It is widely considered common sense logic in the NFL to take a franchise caliber QB when given the opportunity unless you have one already (Either young or in his prime). 9 out of 10 times in our drafts I will say select defense in the 1st round. This time I also say select a defensive player in the first round. The only exception is if Mr. Luck is available. Other than that, it is a no brainer. This is pretty cut and dry. No need to turn it into a monumental pro-Tebow or anti-Tebow war.

But thats the problem, we drafted a young kid and we just dont know yet. So until we do it would be a waste taking another QB in the first round.

[silkamilkamonico]

Why not?

Bowlen is not a defensive minded owner. He's all about offense. It's the same thoery as Pittsburgh and Baltimore always having great defenses. That's a staple of there organization. They might have good offenses from time to time, but they will never be known as offensive juggernauts. It isn't their philosophy.

When Baltimore had a great defense, and were among the NFL's worst offenses every year, they continued to take guys like Ed Reed, and Terrell Suggs in the first round.

[Northman]

Very rarely has there been a unanimous consensus on a QB coming out of college. Akili and Joey had their detractors in scouting departments and among coaches. Virtually everyone regards Luck as a can't miss prospect, with everything needed to excel at the next level.

But it doesnt mean that he will. And again, we have a QB and we need to find out what he has before we draft another. Now, if you want to say trade Tebow before the draft and then take Luck than thats something entirely different.

[silkamilkamonico]

It is widely considered common sense logic in the NFL to take a franchise caliber QB when given the opportunity unless you have one already (Either young or in his prime). 9 out of 10 times in our drafts I will say select defense in the 1st round. This time I also say select a defensive player in the first round. The only exception is if Mr. Luck is available. Other than that, it is a no brainer. This is pretty cut and dry. No need to turn it into a monumental pro-Tebow or anti-Tebow war.

This has been one of the more knowledgeable posts and I can't believe it hasn't had more attention. For anyone that isn't sold on Tebow and thinks Luck is the answer, it's a no brainer. It may be an opinion, but it is certainly substantiated from history with the NFL. There's a reason why Luck is regarded as the #1 offensive player in the draft, and Tebow was considered a reach for the 1st round, and possibly a 3rd round QB depending on who you ask.

Nobody is in disagreement with Luck as a propsect.

This is no disrespect to Tebow at all. IMHO he is a very intriguing young talent. But we're talking about a QB here in Luck that virtually every NFL expert and analyst say is a superior prospect in every area.

I understand people may want to go defense, but I am really missing why someone can't see the argument for drafting Luck.

[atwater27]

Ryan Leaf was considered a can't-miss prospect as well. There is no such thing as a can't miss prospect.

He had his detractors as well.

[BroncoWave]

It is widely considered common sense logic in the NFL to take a franchise caliber QB when given the opportunity unless you have one already (Either young or in his prime). 9 out of 10 times in our drafts I will say select defense in the 1st round. This time I also say select a defensive player in the first round. The only exception is if Mr. Luck is available. Other than that, it is a no brainer. This is pretty cut and dry. No need to turn it into a monumental pro-Tebow or anti-Tebow war.

No one is doing that. We are simply saying it's stupid to draft a QB in round one when we just did so last year. Now as North said, if we were to trade Tebow before the draft then we should absolutely go after Luck. But as long as he is on our roster, he is our guy.

[atwater27]

But it doesnt mean that he will. And again, we have a QB and we need to find out what he has before we draft another. Now, if you want to say trade Tebow before the draft and then take Luck than thats something entirely different.

That is an even better idea.

[atwater27]

from nfldraftscout.com and cbs sports...

Luck is more than just the best quarterback -- or best player -- potentially available for the 2011 draft, however.

He's the best quarterback AND elite prospect -- including LaDainian Tomlinson, Steve Hutchinson, Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh -- I've scouted, including every Senior Bowl since 2001.

and this....


A number of scouts over the long weekend made it clear that the comparison to some of the all-time greats aren't merely media hype -- the scouts are drawing parallels, too.

Luck's size, arm strength and surprising speed earn high grades from scouts. His accuracy, ability to read defenses and poise are earning even more exemplary marks.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14372683/rewind-lucks-stock-rises-even-higher-ingrams-sags

[Poet]

LMAO I wouldn't. If we're worried about someone "panning out", we might as well keep Kyle Orton. If we're worried about building a dynasty with an elite QB, we should have steered clear from Heisman trophy winners.

Palmer was a monster and then his injuries piled up after Cincinnati dissolved itself of an offensive line.

I don't think a Heisman is a blessing or a curse. It's a prestigious college award. That's all.

[Slick]

I'll start taking this a little more seriously when we actually get the house in order, if we ever do, and we have a real coaching staff not a bunch of scabs.

[camdisco24]

No QB will have success in our system without protection. If we take another QB in the first round I might puke... There is absolutely no need to stockpile one position when there are so many needs to get us back on track.

All this talk about a QB being a an important puzzle piece, ect, ect is laughable... When you keep using the same piece you're never going to finish the whole dang puzzle! I don't care what the experts say about Luck, he might be a beast... but we have SO much more to worry about at this point.

[WARHORSE]

Which has won more superbowls: High powered offenses with decent defenses or high powered defenses with decent offenses?

Its not even close.


QB is the most important position bar none....by far.


Which teams end up with dynasties? The ones with killer HOF QBs.
End of story.


Right now, especially since Tebow did not play, you dont know what you have, but it would be agreed by 90% of scouts and evaluators that Tebow is a project regardless if he pans out or not.

Luck, will come in and start immediately, no questions.



Washington has no draft picks to package in order to get Luck, and I would think Snyder would say, YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND.

Carolina has no second round selection, but has needs all over the map. Not to mention a QB taken in the second round. I saw Clausen play, and honestly, all things considered, he did about as good as can be expected in that situation.

Denver has the means to get Luck if they want him.

What could they offer? Brandon Lloyd or Eddie or Decker or Demaryius.
A second rounder. Orton.

So if you get Bowers, Orton, one of the WRs and a second?


No matter what, we have Willis, Lloyd, Royal, Decker, Thomas, and Gaffney.

Take any one of those away and we still have five great WRs.

Orton and Lloyd alone would be a QB that lets Clausen sit some more while giving them someone opposite Smith to threated defenses.

All of a sudden you have Orton, Smith, Lloyd, Stewart and DeAngelo Williams on offense.................that helps. You also have a second rounder to go with Bowers?

Im not saying that would happen or even if it would take that much.

All Im saying is if we wanted to get Luck, we could do it and still make a difference.

We would pick up a FA RB. Then trade Quinn. Tebow could then learn and progress while being a valuable backup. Once he gets up to speed, you can trade him.


All musings for sure.............but it sure will be interesting to see what Tebow does to make things harder or easier for the Broncos brass.:coffee:


Whether the Broncos believe enough in Tebow to go all defense, or they take Luck, Go BRONCOS.

[atwater27]

That was one of the most insightful posts I have ever read, war. Right on!

[BroncoBJ]

Perhaps Luck can play defense as well!!:lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF9PFJI_t5I

:lol: Damn, Thats harder then any hit I've seen any Bronco make this year. Maybe people know something when they say we should draft Luck. With hits like that, I'm all for drafting him. :elefant:

[atwater27]

Dude can run the ball like Steve Young too. Prototypical size, fullback running skills, smarts, drive, decent arm, leadership. Got it all.

[Poet]

Dude can run the ball like Steve Young too. Prototypical size, fullback running skills, smarts, drive, decent arm, leadership. Got it all.

the only thing that JaMarcus Russell didn't have from that list was smarts.

The only thing Leaf didn't have on that list was leadership.

Akili Smith had all of that going into the NFL.

If Denver took him, I could understand it because it means one of their round one QB's are getting traded.

I wouldn't be surprised to see you guys trade back.

[atwater27]

the only thing that JaMarcus Russell didn't have from that list was smarts.

The only thing Leaf didn't have on that list was leadership.

Akili Smith had all of that going into the NFL.

If Denver took him, I could understand it because it means one of their round one QB's are getting traded.

I wouldn't be surprised to see you guys trade back.

With all our needs, I would welcome a trade back as well, as long as we were smart with the selections. But we could very possibly come to regret that decision if Luck is/was available. I think we could trade down far and select Paea, DT from Oregon State and come out pretty good.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Exact words from John on this past Friday:


On whether the Broncos should draft Stanford QB Andrew Luck if available when Denver picks

"That's a big question. I'll tell you this: I think Andrew Luck is the best football player in the draft without a doubt. If that were to happen, then you're going have to have some very serious conversations of exactly which direction you want to go, whether it's with Tim or take a guy like Andrew Luck. To me, barring injury he's going to be very successful in the NFL. I think that's something you really have to think about. Look at the situation you're in and look at all the different options."

http://www.877theticket.com/page/59/The_John_Elway_Show

[Nomad]

But it doesnt mean that he will. And again, we have a QB and we need to find out what he has before we draft another. Now, if you want to say trade Tebow before the draft and then take Luck than thats something entirely different.

I agree, you can't have both QBs on the roster!! If Tebow stays, you gotta go defense!!

They could probably package him to the Panthers along with a 2nd rounder and mid rd pick with a late rd pick from 2012. I believe the Panthers are going to ask alot and Elway will do anything to get the kid!! Defense will yet suffer again because of a QB, but nothing we can do about it!! This year's draft will be on Elway's shoulders whether to go Luck's route or defense's route!!

[WARHORSE]

That was one of the most insightful posts I have ever read, war. Right on!

Youre scaring me.:shocked:






j/k
:beer:



Heres a shocker: New England has two picks in rounds 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7.

13 total draft picks with their fifth, and four of those are in the top 65.

Think this team knows how to build? I would venture to say, what do you do with all those picks?

They will trade many away, so that each year they gain more picks, while creating the best depth/built team ever.

If they want to aquire a WR like Lloyd, its no problem.

Lloyd has their offense down, and each one of our WRs could be potential trade options for New England. Lloyd with Welker, Woodhead, Branch, and the two TEs?

Holy make a wish.


If we could get a second or first for Lloyd, you do it. Lloyd has a very tradeable contract.

Learn from New England.....stock picks........trade down. If we dont get Luck, trade down a few slots and gather picks.

Lloyd has come of age. New England would not pay him. They would trade him. Hes just not that big a need right now imo.


New England will give up a contract to a good player, or New England will give up a good pick for a good player.....but never both it seems.

[EMB6903]

The Broncos are not going to have the #1 pick and Andrew Luck is a lock to go #1 if he comes out. Hes the best QB prospect to come out in years. Possibly a better prospect than Peyton Manning. There is not a chance he slides to 2. As good of a prospect people think Bowers, Quinn, Peterson, or Fairley is they dont touch Andrew Luck as an NFL prospect.

[camdisco24]

The Broncos are not going to have the #1 pick and Andrew Luck is a lock to go #1 if he comes out. Hes the best QB prospect to come out in years. Possibly a better prospect than Peyton Manning. There is not a chance he slides to 2. As good of a prospect people think Bowers, Quinn, Peterson, or Fairley is they dont touch Andrew Luck as an NFL prospect.

You know, that's probably a good point. All this talk is prob for nothing. The chances of us actually drafting #1, is pretty low. (just IMHO)

While I hope we don't draft luck, I dont think there is any doubt he'll go number one. So that being said... Luck isn't going to be a Bronco next year. (In the case of the Broncos not having the number one pick)

[I Eat Staples]

I think Luck is without a doubt a much better pro prospect than Tebow, but we need defense before anything else.

[Northman]

I honestly hope Carolina takes him. I want to actually draft defense and start there.

[camdisco24]

I honestly hope Carolina takes him. I want to actually draft defense and start there.

As Broncos fans... we should all want Carolina to take Luck... we'll never get better if we don't address the defense.

[Sinthor]

Which has won more superbowls: High powered offenses with decent defenses or high powered defenses with decent offenses?

Its not even close.


QB is the most important position bar none....by far.


Which teams end up with dynasties? The ones with killer HOF QBs.
End of story.


Right now, especially since Tebow did not play, you dont know what you have, but it would be agreed by 90% of scouts and evaluators that Tebow is a project regardless if he pans out or not.

Luck, will come in and start immediately, no questions.



Washington has no draft picks to package in order to get Luck, and I would think Snyder would say, YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND.

Carolina has no second round selection, but has needs all over the map. Not to mention a QB taken in the second round. I saw Clausen play, and honestly, all things considered, he did about as good as can be expected in that situation.

Denver has the means to get Luck if they want him.

What could they offer? Brandon Lloyd or Eddie or Decker or Demaryius.
A second rounder. Orton.

So if you get Bowers, Orton, one of the WRs and a second?


No matter what, we have Willis, Lloyd, Royal, Decker, Thomas, and Gaffney.

Take any one of those away and we still have five great WRs.

Orton and Lloyd alone would be a QB that lets Clausen sit some more while giving them someone opposite Smith to threated defenses.

All of a sudden you have Orton, Smith, Lloyd, Stewart and DeAngelo Williams on offense.................that helps. You also have a second rounder to go with Bowers?

Im not saying that would happen or even if it would take that much.

All Im saying is if we wanted to get Luck, we could do it and still make a difference.

We would pick up a FA RB. Then trade Quinn. Tebow could then learn and progress while being a valuable backup. Once he gets up to speed, you can trade him.


All musings for sure.............but it sure will be interesting to see what Tebow does to make things harder or easier for the Broncos brass.:coffee:


Whether the Broncos believe enough in Tebow to go all defense, or they take Luck, Go BRONCOS.

You make a good point but ANY QB who could come in and make a positive impact would fit the bill for what you're saying. That's why we need to see what we can do with Tebow as well. The beauty of that is IF he pans out, we got him for pretty much nothing as QB's go.

Claussen? You must be kidding. I've seen more than just the game the other night. This kid was thought to be a WAY better prospect than Tebow. He has played HORRIBLY this year. Carolina is definitely looking for another solution. Unlike Tebow, he started a majority of this year and has been terrible. He's even had conflicts with other members of his team, showing THEY don't view him as a leader or totally respect him. Except for LAST week's game, he hasn't had a game as good as Tebow's vs. the Raiders. Horrible decision making. And THIS guy was supposed to go after Bradford?

My only point is that all of these analysts can only analyze trends and TRY to project on who will work out and who will not. Heck, even Bradford hasn't done very well his first year- his first few games were surprisingly good to all the talking heads but the last 4-5 have them saying he needs to step up his game and find what he was doing during the early part of the season. If he wasn't in the WEAK NFC West, his team wouldn't have a prayer of sniffing the playoffs either. Sure, Luck SO FAR is rated a bit higher than Bradford, but Bradford did it for several years in college, not just one. And again, he hasn't exactly lit up the league. Are we saying we need a successful #1 draft pick like Bradford just to get our team up to 6 or 7 wins next year? I don't think so. A solid defense could do that just as well.

Bottom line, it will take more than even a SUCCESSFUL 1st round pick QB to pick this team up. Taking Luck has no better chance of doing this than focusing on defense and sticking with what we have now, at least not for another 2-3 years. And...if we build the rest of the team up first and THEN go after some high pick QB we'll be more successful with him. We won't end up getting him killed like Matt Stafford. Flacco and Ryan both stepped into teams that had rebuilt majorly on their lines..they had good teams to support them while they grew and thus were able to make impact from their start and then continue to grow and get better. Without that, you pay some kid $50 million or so guaranteed and even IF he makes an impact you can get him killed like Stafford. There's question now as to whether Stafford will ever be the same. Regardless of what happens with him, the team's on the hook for all that money. No, I say build the team up to be at least decent like the Rams FIRST. Then see about that super expensive QB. At least then if the QB doesn't pan out you still have a decent team that you can operate with a veteran free agent and you won't be stuck in the cellar.

[claymore]

Had we not drafted Tebow i would have no problem taking luck. But again, you dont put that kind of money into 2 first round QB's when you have nothing else. As too the example of Bradford in St. Louis that is crap too. Their QB position was terrible and thats why Bulger was cut loose. They still have other problems but QB was a definite problem for them so taking Bradford wasnt dumb on their part.

But when it comes to us, we just dont know what we have in Tebow and unfortuantely thanks to McD 3 games just isnt going to give you enough to go on to justify drafting luck. Its better to start working on the defense and get a "quality" Dlineman for a change rather than play musical chairs with the QB position when there's nothing there to help them out. Right now, we need to ride with Tebow and draft other areas that we need more than the QB position.

The hype around Luck is no different than the hype for Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, etc.

I see that point as well. But until we have a proven winner at QB, Im going to hope for a bonafide star under center. We cant go anywhere till we get one.

[Dzone]

That video of Luck hitting that USC guy was awesome!!!...
Anyway, I am so hoping that Tebow just secures the job. He is an easy guy to root for. He has superior leadership ability on and off the field. Unlike Orton.

[claymore]

That video of Luck hitting that USC guy was awesome!!!...
Anyway, I am so hoping that Tebow just secures the job. He is an easy guy to root for. He has superior leadership ability on and off the field. Unlike Orton.

Mozactly... He has 2 games. If he can win out, he takes us out of Luck talks...

[Dzone]

I hope Tebow makes it VERY difficult for the Broncos to even think of trading him.

[Clipworthy]

I hope Tebow makes it VERY difficult for the Broncos to even think of trading him.

you sir, are wise :beer:

[Dzone]

Nothing against orton, but some guys just dont have that charisma that great quarterbacks have. Its a personality thing.
I know that some people resent people from florida and elsewhere who are bronco fans because of Tebow. Hey, its a good thing to have a quarterback with such an international following..If more people are now bronco fans because of Tebow, then that is great!

[EMB6903]

I hope Tebow makes it VERY difficult for the Broncos to even think of trading him.

I would hope Denver wouldnt trade Tebow even if they had the #1 pick and drafted Luck

Doesnt hurt to have 2 great QB's on the roster.

[Dzone]

you sir, are wise :beer:

:beer:haha..thanks

[Dzone]

I would hope Denver wouldnt trade Tebow even if they had the #1 pick and drafted Luck

Doesnt hurt to have 2 great QB's on the roster.

ya, it could be like Montana and Young around here...If we draft Luck,you can be assured that Tebows attitude will be "Thats great! Having Andrew Luck on my team will only make me better and make us a better team"...This team needs Tim Tebows positive attitude, especially now during these dismal times.

[EMB6903]

ya, it could be like Montana and Young around here...If we draft Luck,you can be assured that Tebows attitude will be "Thats great! Having Andrew Luck on my team will only make me better and make us a better team"...This team needs Tim Tebows positive attitude, especially now during these dismal times.

and Luck has the same mentality. Team first guy.

They would both accept the challenge as well as make each other better.

[Nomad]

I would hope Denver wouldnt trade Tebow even if they had the #1 pick and drafted Luck

Doesnt hurt to have 2 great QB's on the roster.

Panther's would be morons not to want Tebow in an offer if the BRONCOS decided to move up!! Clausen & Tebow would duel it out!!

[EMB6903]

Panther's would be morons not to want Tebow in an offer if the BRONCOS decided to move up!! Clausen & Tebow would duel it out!!

they would be stupid because that means they would pass up on Luck...

Which would be pretty stupid IMO

[Dzone]

Tebow was benching reps at 405 pounds when he was a freshman at florida...He's probably benchin 5 plates now. He's a damn freight train. You got to love having a quarterback that people are afraid to tackle

[DenBronx]

Why don't we just draft a QB in every round this year?

Then they could all compete. I'm sure at least one would pan out.

[EMB6903]

Tebow was benching reps at 405 pounds when he was a freshman at florida...He's probably benchin 5 plates now. He's a damn freight train. You got to love having a quarterback that people are afraid to tackle

bench reps at 405 pounds?

Im sorry but I doubt he can do that even now...I'd be surprised to find out anybody on this Broncos roster does that.

[Nomad]

What would you 'stuck on Luck' fans give up to get him?!?!

Reading at BM, they made a point Carolina is weak at LT, so would you give up Clady, 2011 1st, 2nd, and a late rd pick and perhaps a conditional pick in 2012!!

[EMB6903]

What would you 'stuck on Luck' fans give up to get him?!?!

Reading at BM, they made a point Carolina is weak at LT, so would you give up Clady, 2011 1st, 2nd, and a late rd pick and perhaps a conditional pick in 2012!!

thats way too much IMO. I'd only be in favor to draft Luck if Denver lands the #1 overall pick. Denver is fine with Tebow as the quarterback. No need to trade away our future for 1 player when the QB position is secure.

[I Eat Staples]

thats way too much IMO. I'd only be in favor to draft Luck if Denver lands the #1 overall pick. Denver is fine with Tebow as the quarterback. No need to trade away our future for 1 player when the QB position is secure.

I'm not anywhere close to being sold on Tebow, but we might as well see what he has while building our defense. As good as Luck should be, there's no certain thing, so drafting him while ignoring our defense would be catastrophic should he surprise everyone by not working out.

Not to mention, its hard for a rookie QB to play at a high level without any help.

[tripleoption]

123

[honz]

How can you not be sold on Tebow? He is destined for greatness and multiple Super Bowl Championships.

[Lonestar]

Washington had a top 10 defense in the NFL last year....and they won 4 games.


what does that have to do with what i posted?


Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
Washington is hardly a good defense this year.. last time I looked they are #32.

if your qb is always behind 2-3 tds all he is going to do is get his ass beat all to hell.

Fix the DL with the picks IF you have to use more picks on the team Trade Orton as we have Quinn as a back up.

[Lonestar]

Bowlen is not a defensive minded owner. He's all about offense. It's the same thoery as Pittsburgh and Baltimore always having great defenses. That's a staple of there organization. They might have good offenses from time to time, but they will never be known as offensive juggernauts. It isn't their philosophy.

When Baltimore had a great defense, and were among the NFL's worst offenses every year, they continued to take guys like Ed Reed, and Terrell Suggs in the first round.

JUST SO I HAVE THIS CORRECT it is the owner that drafts, coaches and sets policy on the field?

He decides how the team is run?

Did I get that correct?

[Nomad]

thats way too much IMO. I'd only be in favor to draft Luck if Denver lands the #1 overall pick. Denver is fine with Tebow as the quarterback. No need to trade away our future for 1 player when the QB position is secure.

It was a hypothetical but I expect the Panther's to put a high price on Luck (which comes with a player plus picks) because they have many holes to fill as well and if Elway is desperate enough to get him then I expect way too much to be spent, besides if this is a once in a 20 year's QB, then isn't he worth it?!?!

[Jake Klug]

It was a hypothetical but I expect the Panther's to put a high price on Luck (which comes with a player plus picks) because they have many holes to fill as well and if Elway is desperate enough to get him then I expect way too much to be spent, besides if this is a once in a 20 year's QB, then isn't he worth it?!?!

Probably not. And to answer that, Ive considered whether or not this team was a QB away from contending. If anything, Denver needs more picks, not less. If Peyton Manning was the QB in Denver, theyre still probably not contending with that defense. Plus Tebow could turn out to be great.

[Dzone]

If Tebow turns out to be great, it will be Tebowmania like never before.

[Elevation inc]

He said as much nearly two weeks ago on his radio show. And almost every major NFL analyst said that last Sunday, Tebow did alright but was far from showing enough to be even considered an NFL ready quarterback. Keep the faith and keep defending him brother, because if Tebow puts up similar numbers to last week in a still conservative gameplan, the more and more it will look like he is far from ready or that he is indeed the future franchise quarterback of this team.

Right now, there is a huge possibility that Luck will be a Bronco next year if we are indeed within reaching distance.

well we also have to realize that with tebow he was only running scout team untill last week, and not by his choice...kyle stole all the reps from both quinn and tebow...I really cant fault the staff for easing him into the fire last week....what we gonna call him a bust already after he has another conservative game...haha that would be par for alot of denver fans(not saying you cane) but you see where im going there......

i can already see the oh crap tebow sucks, draft luck...no he doesnt stay with the him wars coming if he doesnt throw for 300 today...lol

[Slick]

well we also have to realize that with tebow he was only running scout team untill last week, and not by his choice...kyle stole all the reps from both quinn and tebow...I really cant fault the staff for easing him into the fire last week....what we gonna call him a bust already after he has another conservative game...haha that would be par for alot of denver fans(not saying you cane) but you see where im going there......

i can already see the oh crap tebow sucks, draft luck...no he doesnt stay with the him wars coming if he doesnt throw for 300 today...lol

I'm certainly making my mind up on Tebow based on what he does these final three games with this all star coaching and supporting cast.

:bandit:

[Nick]

It is really hard to judge Tebow with the play calling. You can see he is absolutely raw and has huge upside as a play maker. He will only get better.

If we end up with #1 which is unlikely because North Carolina wont win next week. There is a huge possibility Luck is our QB next year. New Coach and he will want his own team and job security. He is the best player in the draft if a team needs a QB.

Carolina will be drafting Luck.

I would like to see us getting Patrick Peterson if we are at #2. He is going to be a beast in NFL and most for sure player in draft.

My big board would look like something like this.

Luck
Peterson
Quinn
Green
Bowers
Amukamara
Fairley

So I would not mind trading down because of possibility of four QB's might be taken in top 15. We could then address our line with Fairley or Paea while add much needed help else where.

If we stay put at #2 Peterson is going be the most for sure thing.

[Lancane]

I'm certainly making my mind up on Tebow based on what he does these final three games with this all star coaching and supporting cast.

:bandit:

But it's not up to you, nor Elevation or anyone else...why is that so hard for some to understand? It's not personal, I am not saying it's what should happen, but what what could happen.


In the end it's what the F'n organization decides; Elway, Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and whoever else comes on board, and they'll more then likely go off what they are seeing from these three games, not what the fans want. When you have respected analysts saying they are not sold on Tebow, same with a handful of former pro quarterbacks that have talked about him, then you better believe the organization is going to listen and weigh it against what they've seen or how they feel about the kid - that's the business, period, end of story.

[Lancane]

JUST SO I HAVE THIS CORRECT it is the owner that drafts, coaches and sets policy on the field?

He decides how the team is run?

Did I get that correct?

He does own the team correct?

Ask McDaniels, Shanahan and Reeves what happens when the owner is not happy with you! I'd say he has a lot more say then you or some others on here may think. If he wants something then you better believe those in the organization will be listening.

[Northman]

But it's not up to you, nor Elevation or anyone else...why is that so hard for some to understand? It's not personal, I am not saying it's what should happen, but what what could happen.


In the end it's what the F'n organization decides; Elway, Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and whoever else comes on board, and they'll more then likely go off what they are seeing from these three games, not what the fans want. When you have respected analysts saying they are not sold on Tebow, same with a handful of former pro quarterbacks that have talked about him, then you better believe the organization is going to listen and weigh it against what they've seen or how they feel about the kid - that's the business, period, end of story.

What you state is true however i think what is being conveyed to you is how much of a fubar it would be for them to discard Tebow after 3 games. Its just not enough to go on to make that determination of where he stands in the NFL, especially considering the other things like coaching, surrounding talent, etc.

[Nick]

What you state is true however i think what is being conveyed to you is how much of a fubar it would be for them to discard Tebow after 3 games. Its just not enough to go on to make that determination of where he stands in the NFL, especially considering the other things like coaching, surrounding talent, etc.

New Coach Gains a lot of job security and like having "his" QB. Different Coaches have different philosophy.

As much as our need on the Defense side of the ball. It would not surprise me with a new coach going totally offense on first day. QB of future, and addressing line and getting TE. "Protecting his investment".

I personally feel the same way but on the business perspective from a coach is different.

[Northman]

New Coach Gains a lot of job security and like having "his" QB. Different Coaches have different philosophy.

As much as our need on the Defense side of the ball. It would not surprise me with a new coach going totally offense on first day. QB of future, and addressing line and getting TE. "Protecting his investment".

I personally feel the same way but on the business perspective from a coach is different.

Strange.

Shanahan didnt dump Elway, Carroll didnt dump Manning. Norv didnt dump Rivers. Sure, Tebow isnt established but can you point to me ANYWHERE where a HC came in and dumped a first round QB after only 3 games of film to go by? We know that McD was an idiot for creating the mess with Jay but that proved to show how McD was.

[Nick]

Strange.

Shanahan didnt dump Elway, Carroll didnt dump Manning. Norv didnt dump Rivers. Sure, Tebow isnt established but can you point to me ANYWHERE where a HC came in and dumped a first round QB after only 3 games of film to go by? We know that McD was an idiot for creating the mess with Jay but that proved to show how McD was.

rather then focusing on top first round draft selections look at round two QB's being drafted or at least late round 1's for more accurate statistics.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tebow because his upside and play making capabilities. Some coaches will think he was a reach and want a more "accurate" QB rather there job on a risk. Most coaches like your proto type pocket passer and drafting a QB buys you job security.

I believe Tebow is our future QB but I am not also a new coach. With his play today and if he plays well next week... They will not be able to get a QB in draft which is great.

[Northman]

rather then focusing on top first round draft selections look at round two QB's being drafted or at least late round 1's for more accurate statistics.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tebow because his upside and play making capabilities. Some coaches will think he was a reach and want a more "accurate" QB rather there job on a risk. Most coaches like your proto type pocket passer and drafting a QB buys you job security.

I believe Tebow is our future QB but I am not also a new coach. With his play today and if he plays well next week... They will not be able to get a QB in draft which is great.


I really dont think your in the right thinking process in your observations. The only time new coaches come in and clean house regarding a QB is when those QB's are average or just plain piss poor. Ive never seen a HC come in and oust a rookie QB from the first round without seeing what he has to offer. Now, the new HC may bring in a veteran QB depending on what kind of direction they want to go in. But, considering how Tebow is playing right now a new HC would be moronic to just dump him or trade him without giving him the proper coaching and players around him to truly see what he has.

[Elevation inc]

I really dont think your in the right thinking process in your observations. The only time new coaches come in and clean house regarding a QB is when those QB's are average or just plain piss poor. Ive never seen a HC come in and oust a rookie QB from the first round without seeing what he has to offer. Now, the new HC may bring in a veteran QB depending on what kind of direction they want to go in. But, considering how Tebow is playing right now a new HC would be moronic to just dump him or trade him without giving him the proper coaching and players around him to truly see what he has.

Mcnabb wants out:lol:...he is a vet i would bring in.....

[Elevation inc]

But it's not up to you, nor Elevation or anyone else...why is that so hard for some to understand? It's not personal, I am not saying it's what should happen, but what what could happen.


In the end it's what the F'n organization decides; Elway, Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and whoever else comes on board, and they'll more then likely go off what they are seeing from these three games, not what the fans want. When you have respected analysts saying they are not sold on Tebow, same with a handful of former pro quarterbacks that have talked about him, then you better believe the organization is going to listen and weigh it against what they've seen or how they feel about the kid - that's the business, period, end of story.

its always up to me cane:beer: joe ellis told me so.....:lol:

[Ravage!!!]

Strange.

Shanahan didnt dump Elway, Carroll didnt dump Manning. Norv didnt dump Rivers. Sure, Tebow isnt established but can you point to me ANYWHERE where a HC came in and dumped a first round QB after only 3 games of film to go by? We know that McD was an idiot for creating the mess with Jay but that proved to show how McD was.

He's still not considered a sure fire QB, and many never considered him to be a franchise QB to begin with. So can we really compare him to guys that were drafted either #1 overall, or nearl#1 overall???? Elway, Manning were #1 picks... Norv was forced to take RIvers no matter what since they traded the #1 overall pick away and took him, and JUST traded away away Drew Brees. Tebow isn't even in that same boat as far as comparisons.

[EMB6903]

Marty Shottenhiemer*****

not Norv Turner.

[Lonestar]

He does own the team correct?

Ask McDaniels, Shanahan and Reeves what happens when the owner is not happy with you! I'd say he has a lot more say then you or some others on here may think. If he wants something then you better believe those in the organization will be listening.

once again someone failed to asnwer the question.


Originally Posted by Lonestar
JUST SO I HAVE THIS CORRECT it is the owner that drafts, coaches and sets policy on the field?

He decides how the team is run?

Did I get that correct?

I know all about how he hires or fires, so far all of them were fired for lousy records IIRC.

If you know something the rest of us do not provide a link.

[Northman]

He's still not considered a sure fire QB, and many never considered him to be a franchise QB to begin with. So can we really compare him to guys that were drafted either #1 overall, or nearl#1 overall???? Elway, Manning were #1 picks...

Do i need to point to other #1 picks that werent so good? I mean really? Not too many thought that Flacco would be a sure fire QB either and he's done pretty good. Point is, we still made the move to draft Tebow in the first round and its only going to be 3 games at the most to evaluate him on. Had Tebow played all year than yea, maybe you draft Luck. But thats not the case here.


Norv was forced to take RIvers no matter what since they traded the #1 overall pick away and took him, and JUST traded away away Drew Brees.

Im not sure i follow you here. The reason SD drafted Rivers was because at the time Drew Brees wasnt playing that well for a 2nd rounder. The minute they drafted Rivers Brees upped his game but because of the money invested in Rivers they had to get rid of someone. Technically they could of gotten rid of Rivers but who was going to take on his salary without seeing what he could do? No one.


Tebow isn't even in that same boat as far as comparisons.

He is as far as the hype surrounding him. So far, he has played well but you dont draft another 1st round QB until you know what you have in this first round QB. That would be just moronic.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I don't think Luck will come out, anyway. If he doesn't, it's a moot point. Even if Luck is another Manning/Brady (you can't say Elway, NOBODY is Elway - Luck doesn't have the arm strength of Elway nor does he throw on the run as well as Elway did) we still won't be a playoff contender without a defense.

Tebow at least has the potential to keep the offense competitive, now we need to refocus on the defense and completely rebuild it with badasses.