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BroncoWave
12-22-2010, 10:14 PM
Some quotes from him today per Lindsay Jones:

"Orton: The way it was presented to me is that [Tebow will] be the starter the rest of the season, and that’s just how it goes. ..."

"They made a decision. I’m not going to sit here and fight a decision. The decision is made."

"Orton on '11: "If I’m going to be here, I’m expecting to be the starter. I don’t think my play has warranted anything other than that."

"I understand that as an org you have a lot invested in a 1st rnd draft pick + you want to see him play, so that’s how it goes."

www.twitter.com/postbroncos

Sorry Kyle, but I respectfully disagree that your play hasn't warranted "anything other than that". His play as of late has warranted anything but that.

Tned
12-22-2010, 10:19 PM
Expect in one hand, spit in the other, and all you have is a handful of spit.

Davii
12-22-2010, 10:20 PM
Some quotes from him today per Lindsay Jones:

"Orton: The way it was presented to me is that [Tebow will] be the starter the rest of the season, and that’s just how it goes. ..."

"They made a decision. I’m not going to sit here and fight a decision. The decision is made."

"Orton on '11: "If I’m going to be here, I’m expecting to be the starter. I don’t think my play has warranted anything other than that."

"I understand that as an org you have a lot invested in a 1st rnd draft pick + you want to see him play, so that’s how it goes."

www.twitter.com/postbroncos

Sorry Kyle, but I respectfully disagree that your play hasn't warranted "anything other than that". His play as of late has warranted anything but that.

Well, I think it all hinges on how Tebow plays these last two games, and how he looks in Pre-season, if Orton is still around by then.

I would agree that the last few games did not do Kyle any favors, but a few games does not make a career.

I, for one, am pulling for Tebow, I think he has the "it" factor that Kyle lacks. I think Tim is going to be one hell of a QB in this league for years to come. It will take some time, as it did for John, but Tebow is the future.

Is the future next season? Time will tell.

camdisco24
12-22-2010, 10:24 PM
Yeah... sorry Kyle, I respect you, but I don't think you'll be starting in Denver ever again...
Honestly, Kyle could help alot of teams out. I think he's look good in Bengals Orange??

dogfish
12-22-2010, 10:24 PM
while i don't agree with his assesment of his chances, i'm sure not going to kill the guy for saying it-- and no one else should, either. . .

which one of you would be happy with a guy that just gives his job up without a word? tell me if you think rod smith woulda ever done that before answering. . .

honz
12-22-2010, 10:25 PM
I wouldn't want any of the Broncos to think any differently...even if he is delusional.

BroncoWave
12-22-2010, 10:27 PM
while i don't agree with his assesment of his chances, i'm sure not going to kill the guy for saying it-- and no one else should, either. . .

which one of you would be happy with a guy that just gives his job up without a word? tell me if you think rod smith woulda ever done that before answering. . .

I respect him for not going down without a fight, I just think his statement about his play "not warranting anything but being the starter next year" was a bit delusional.

Jake Klug
12-22-2010, 10:39 PM
Well, I think it all hinges on how Tebow plays these last two games, and how he looks in Pre-season, if Orton is still around by then.

I would agree that the last few games did not do Kyle any favors, but a few games does not make a career.

I, for one, am pulling for Tebow, I think he has the "it" factor that Kyle lacks. I think Tim is going to be one hell of a QB in this league for years to come. It will take some time, as it did for John, but Tebow is the future.

Is the future next season? Time will tell.

I think he'll improve faster than people think.


while i don't agree with his assesment of his chances, i'm sure not going to kill the guy for saying it-- and no one else should, either. . .

which one of you would be happy with a guy that just gives his job up without a word? tell me if you think rod smith woulda ever done that before answering. . .

On one hand, Orton is a proud player, with an ego, that looks out for himself. On the other hand, he's a team captain that should be putting others before himself.

Juriga72
12-22-2010, 10:54 PM
Does Kyle remember in 2006 when the Bears went to the Super Bowl with him not getting one snap that year?

because thats how much impact he will have NEXT year on the Broncos

Dzone
12-22-2010, 11:01 PM
How would tebow have acted if the shoe was on the other foot? I doubt he would have sounded so negative and selfish.

JaxBroncoGirl
12-22-2010, 11:13 PM
Some quotes from him today per Lindsay Jones:

"Orton: The way it was presented to me is that [Tebow will] be the starter the rest of the season, and that’s just how it goes. ..."

"They made a decision. I’m not going to sit here and fight a decision. The decision is made."

"Orton on '11: "If I’m going to be here, I’m expecting to be the starter. I don’t think my play has warranted anything other than that."

"I understand that as an org you have a lot invested in a 1st rnd draft pick + you want to see him play, so that’s how it goes."

www.twitter.com/postbroncos

Sorry Kyle, but I respectfully disagree that your play hasn't warranted "anything other than that". His play as of late has warranted anything but that.

Seems like Orton has a good head on his shoulders. The only thing I see here is Tim will eventually take over the starting position. As I have stated all year, Timmy is and will be a great QB. No offense to Kyle at all here. However, I see things in TT that I do not see in Orton. Some of you know it is the "IT" factor. Tebow has it and Orton does not. You can throw for 4000 yards per year, if you cannot convert on 3rd down, then why would the 4000 yards count.

Orton is a good Qb and will make an excellent back up QB. We or at least most of us have not seen what TT can actually do. Tim is just awesome (if you want to call me man love, fine, I would do him).

Again, let us remember the name of my boat; "Will Sea". Hopefully everything will work out for both Orton and Tebow.

Northman
12-22-2010, 11:13 PM
Orton will be the starter.

topscribe
12-22-2010, 11:18 PM
It seems to me that I saw a lot of this kind of doubt toward Orton before this
season began. Now, we're seeing it again. Go ahead: You were wrong last
time. We'll see . . .

-----

BroncoWave
12-22-2010, 11:24 PM
It seems to me that I saw a lot of this kind of doubt toward Orton before this
season began. Now, we're seeing it again. Go ahead: You were wrong last
time. We'll see . . .

-----

No we weren't. He is who we thought he was.

camdisco24
12-22-2010, 11:25 PM
It seems to me that I saw a lot of this kind of doubt toward Orton before this
season began. Now, we're seeing it again. Go ahead: You were wrong last
time. We'll see . . .

-----

Orton has performed just fine this year. He's a good QB. But its really hard to overlook the little things that seem to hold him back from being a great QB. There is a reason people doubt him year in and year out...

Dzone
12-22-2010, 11:26 PM
Tim is just awesome (if you want to call me man love, fine, I would do him).

.
Whew, am so glad to see that youre a girl...I was a little worried for a second that you were a dude sayin that...eeek

Magnificent Seven
12-22-2010, 11:26 PM
Niners could get Orton.

topscribe
12-22-2010, 11:32 PM
Orton has performed just fine this year. He's a good QB. But its really hard to overlook the little things that seem to hold him back from being a great QB. There is a reason people doubt him year in and year out...

Yup, such as no running game, no defense, and a porous O-line. And still he
played lights out most of the year.

But I don't know how you could possibly feel you have an argument with
what I said.

Many were wrong about Orton last year. Check.
We're now seeing it again. Check.
We'll see (meaning no one can predict what will happen next year). Check.

Now, where is the issue?

-----

Tned
12-22-2010, 11:40 PM
A bunch of factors. If the Broncos think they are capable of competing for the playoffs, then it's probably whichever QB gives them the better chance to win.

If they look at next year as rebuilding, and they think Tebow is far enough along to progress and not regress with live game play, then he probably starts.

Hard to make a projection after only one game of limited passing from Tebow, but it was a solid first start.

If I was to place an even money bet, I would probably go with Tebow, but I wouldn't feel good about winning.

topscribe
12-22-2010, 11:48 PM
I want to see how Tebow does after opponents get a bunch of game film on him.
That is when teams will know what his strengths and weaknesses are, what
he does best and what he doesn't do as well. That is when I'll be more ready
to form a judgment.Tebow has started one regular season game in the NFL.
I remember watching Steve Tensi's first game for the Broncos. We thought
we had an All-Pro on our hands. Then the rest of the league caught up with
him, and the rest is history, as they say.

Give me a few more games. Because, personally, I don't know yet, one way
or the other. And I'm not sure anybody else really does at this point, except
for those who are judging with their hearts instead of their heads . . .

-----

camdisco24
12-22-2010, 11:49 PM
Yup, such as no running game, no defense, and a porous O-line. And still he
played lights out most of the year.

But I don't know how you could possibly feel you have an argument with
what I said.

Many were wrong about Orton last year. Check.
We're now seeing it again. Check.
We'll see (meaning no one can predict what will happen next year). Check.

Now, where is the issue?

-----

Top, I dont have an issue, nor was I trying to argue. I'm simply stating that, based on what I've seen from Orton with Broncos and the Bears, he seems to get to a certain point every year, and fizzles out... people aren't making up reasons to want a change, they're going off what they see on the field every week.

dogfish
12-22-2010, 11:50 PM
A bunch of factors. If the Broncos think they are capable of competing for the playoffs, then it's probably whichever QB gives them the better chance to win.

If they look at next year as rebuilding, and they think Tebow is far enough along to progress and not regress with live game play, then he probably starts.

Hard to make a projection after only one game of limited passing from Tebow, but it was a solid first start.

If I was to place an even money bet, I would probably go with Tebow, but I wouldn't feel good about winning.

we could trade orton-- we could trade tebow. . .

we could trade both of 'em and draft luck, although it looks really unlikely. . .

who knows? it may be two years until we even need a starter. . .


orton's comment is no different than mcnabb saying he wants to be the QB in washington next year-- it's the same generic comment most players make in this type of situation. . .


really nothing to see here, other than a chance for some gratuitous hacks at orton. . .

dogfish
12-22-2010, 11:51 PM
Top, I dont have an issue, nor was I trying to argue. I'm simply stating that, based on what I've seen from Orton with Broncos and the Bears, he seems to get to a certain point every year, and fizzles out... people aren't making up reasons to want a change, they're going off what they see on the field every week.

come on man, don't take that from top-- kick his ass!

:lol:


this place has been getting dull. . .

camdisco24
12-22-2010, 11:55 PM
come on man, don't take that from top-- kick his ass!

:lol:


this place has been getting dull. . .

I've seen what happens when someone get's in a heated convo with Top about Orton... I'm protecting myself here!!!

topscribe
12-22-2010, 11:55 PM
Top, I dont have an issue, nor was I trying to argue. I'm simply stating that, based on what I've seen from Orton with Broncos and the Bears, he seems to get to a certain point every year, and fizzles out... people aren't making up reasons to want a change, they're going off what they see on the field every week.

Well, we might not get the chance this year to see whether Orton "fizzled out."
We did see him get injured, and that might be that. So, in that case, this
year would not be a good gauge in that sense.

But I want a change in defense. I want a change in the running game. I want
a change in how the O-line is(n't) blocking. Personally, I believe the QB
position is down the list from that because I believe the Broncos have a good
QB, perhaps in either one: Orton or Tebow.

If the Broncos improve their defense, they may become contenders. If they
do not, they won't. I don't care if Johnny Unitas comes back in his prime.
They just will not.

But the issue, of course, is whether Orton will start next year. If the
coaches make that choice, he will. If they make the other choice, he won't.
"People" will not be making that decision.

-----

topscribe
12-22-2010, 11:57 PM
I've seen what happens when someone get's in a heated convo with Top about Orton... I'm protecting myself here!!!

I'm not arguing about Orton. Try to keep up . . .

-----

camdisco24
12-22-2010, 11:59 PM
Well, we might not get the chance this year to see whether Orton "fizzled out."
We did see him get injured, and that might be that. So, in that case, this
year would not be a good gauge in that sense.

But I want a change in defense. I want a change in the running game. I want
a change in how the O-line is(n't) blocking. Personally, I believe the QB
position is down the list from that because I believe the Broncos have a good
QB, perhaps in either one: Orton or Tebow.

If the Broncos improve their defense, they may become contenders. If they
do not, they won't. I don't care if Johnny Unitas comes back in his prime.
They just will not.

But the issue, of course, is whether Orton will start next year. If the
coaches make that choice, he will. If they make the other choice, he won't.
"People" will not be making that decision.

-----

Heck, can't argue with that. D is crucial for us! That's why we need to trade Orton for picks ASAP!! ;)

Honestly Top, I just want whats best for the Broncos, and like you said, only the coaches can make that decision. I'd love to keep both Orton and Tebow, but I think the chances of that are pretty low, but its a wait and see at this point.

topscribe
12-23-2010, 12:02 AM
Heck, can't argue with that. D is crucial for us! That's why we need to trade Orton for picks ASAP!! ;)

Honestly Top, I just want whats best for the Broncos, and like you said, only the coaches can make that decision. I'd love to keep both Orton and Tebow, but I think the chances of that are pretty low, but its a wait and see at this point.

You are very right there. Whether Orton or Tebow starts, the Broncos are
going to have an awfully highly paid backup. That will have to end soon, in
Mr. Bowlen's eyes, I would think . . . it would in mine, anyway . . .

-----

JDL
12-23-2010, 12:11 AM
Reminds me of Jay Fiedler (36-23)... people couldn't wait to get rid of the guy in Miami... you know what they got after him...

AJ Feeley
Sage Rosenfels
Gus Frerotte
Joey Harrington
Daunte Culpepper
Cleo Lemon
Trent Green
John Beck

Orton was 29-19 coming into this season, was on record pace, before he suddenly dropped off... people for whatever reason don't ever want to believe he is injured, didn't want to after last year and conveniently forget that his downturn started after he was injured in the Washington game.

I get that people want to see Tebow, but the guy isn't ready ... some fans just want to piss away 2011 just because Orton doesn't do enough for them... it is the stupidest thing I've seen from Broncos fans... I mean, ORTON is NOT the reason we lost so many games... It's like you have this car... tires are flat, transmission is shot and fans are worried about the damn factory radio not being good enough for them... you just want to scream sometimes at how ridiculous it is.... I mean it makes zero sense why Broncos fans target so much hate and criticism to one of the few things that wasn't totally trash this year... just mind boggling.

tubby
12-23-2010, 12:15 AM
What's he supposed to say?

Trade him to the Vikings for a 2nd.

chazoe60
12-23-2010, 12:15 AM
Orton's play has warranted that he be benched. He can expect whatever the Hell he wants but the fact of the matter is that if Tebow looks promising at all Orton will more than likely be on the bench or playing for another team.

I think the comment about his own play is arrogant and myopic. He hasn't played well. He can think that because of his yards he's had a good season but the fact is he has puked up all over himself anytime he's faced pressure this entire season. He's failed on third down over and over again. He is not even close to being a leader and he has led this team to one of it's worst records in history. What his play warrants is that he be replaced.

Bye bye Orton, go reinforce another team's desire for a true franchise QB. You've accomplished that enough for us.

honz
12-23-2010, 12:16 AM
How would tebow have acted if the shoe was on the other foot? I doubt he would have sounded so negative and selfish.

OH MY GOD. Tebow has been saying all year that he wants to play, meaning that someone needs to go to the bench in his place.

atwater27
12-23-2010, 12:16 AM
You guys crack me up. Tebow has done nothing to deserve to start over Orton. You guys are too much, enjoying your flavor of the week until the next flavor comes along.

topscribe
12-23-2010, 12:17 AM
Reminds me of Jay Fiedler (36-23)... people couldn't wait to get rid of the guy in Miami... you know what they got after him...

AJ Feeley
Sage Rosenfels
Gus Frerotte
Joey Harrington
Daunte Culpepper
Cleo Lemon
Trent Green
John Beck

Orton was 29-19 coming into this season, was on record pace, before he suddenly dropped off... people for whatever reason don't ever want to believe he is injured, didn't want to after last year and conveniently forget that his downturn started after he was injured in the Washington game.

I get that people want to see Tebow, but the guy isn't ready ... some fans just want to piss away 2011 just because Orton doesn't do enough for them... it is the stupidest thing I've seen from Broncos fans... I mean, ORTON is NOT the reason we lost so many games... It's like you have this car... tires are flat, transmission is shot and fans are worried about the damn factory radio not being good enough for them... you just want to scream sometimes at how ridiculous it is.... I mean it makes zero sense why Broncos fans target so much hate and criticism to one of the few things that wasn't totally trash this year... just mind boggling.

My biggest concern is that Orton was just pummeled this year. I was just
amazed that he went as long as he did without injury, especially with QBs
dropping like flies around the league. I remember how certain Ravens
defenders talked about Orton with admiration after that game, saying how
he just kept getting up and coming back.

The Broncos had better start protecting their QBs. Because, even if Tebow
starts, it will be about midseason, and we will be talking about who is going
to replace him as starter for the rest of the year (because Orton probably
will be gone).

-----

honz
12-23-2010, 12:20 AM
My biggest concern is that Orton was just pummeled this year. I was just
amazed that he went as long as he did without injury, especially with QBs
dropping like flies around the league. I remember how certain Ravens
defenders talked about Orton with admiration after that game, saying how
he just kept getting up and coming back.

The Broncos had better start protecting their QBs. Because, even if Tebow
starts, it will be about midseason, and we will be talking about who is going
to replace him as starter for the rest of the year (because Orton probably
will be gone).

-----
Orton will always get pummeled, though. He is not mobile at all and will take big shots if you don't protect him really well.

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 12:21 AM
You people pushing Orton for starter are as delusional as he is. A "not-ready" Tim Tebow showed more ability in 1 game than Orton showed in 2 seasons in Denver. The Bears made it to a Super Bowl when they BENCHED Orton, now with Cutler they are back in the playoffs while Denver sits at 3-11...

The best and ONLY option Denver has right now is to send his ass packing. Thanks for the effort Kyle but you aren't an NFL starter, you're a really good NFL backup, and that is where your career will end up taking you.

For fans who got the LUXURY of watching Mr. Elway play for so many years and now to be hoping to see Kyle Freaking Orton start just screams of delusion. Kyle's done, he's an average player. If he wants to be a starter trade his ass to a team desperate for a "starter" and bring in a real QB. If you aren't sold on Tebow, draft a QB. Either way, Orton will continue to hold this team back with his limited ability.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-23-2010, 12:23 AM
Reminds me of Jay Fiedler (36-23)... people couldn't wait to get rid of the guy in Miami... you know what they got after him...

AJ Feeley
Sage Rosenfels
Gus Frerotte
Joey Harrington
Daunte Culpepper
Cleo Lemon
Trent Green
John Beck

Orton was 29-19 coming into this season, was on record pace, before he suddenly dropped off... people for whatever reason don't ever want to believe he is injured, didn't want to after last year and conveniently forget that his downturn started after he was injured in the Washington game.

I get that people want to see Tebow, but the guy isn't ready ... some fans just want to piss away 2011 just because Orton doesn't do enough for them... it is the stupidest thing I've seen from Broncos fans... I mean, ORTON is NOT the reason we lost so many games... It's like you have this car... tires are flat, transmission is shot and fans are worried about the damn factory radio not being good enough for them... you just want to scream sometimes at how ridiculous it is.... I mean it makes zero sense why Broncos fans target so much hate and criticism to one of the few things that wasn't totally trash this year... just mind boggling.

It's cool that you feel that way, but comparing Orton to the radio on a broken down car is kind of minimizing the importance of the starting QB on a professional football team, isn't it? Orton has played well at times and has played poorly at times. As I see it, he's just as responsible for the W/L ratio this season as the rest of the team. You can say he's not the problem, but his extremely poor 3rd down conversion %, his complete lack of passion as he ho-hums his way to the bench after every 3 and out, and poor play when he's behind in the 4th quarter with a chance to win tell me all I need to know.

Kyle Orton is one of the best backup QBs in the league.

topscribe
12-23-2010, 12:23 AM
Orton will always get pummeled, though. He is not mobile at all and will take big shots if you don't protect him really well.

Even though that is a myth, I will not argue it in this thread.

But mobility is not the problem. At times, Elway was one of the most sacked
QBs in the league. There is no way he could be accused of not being mobile.
As fast as they came down on Tebow last week, he didn't have a chance to
get out of the way. The QB needs protection. I don't care if his name is Vick.

-----

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 12:25 AM
My biggest concern is that Orton was just pummeled this year. I was just
amazed that he went as long as he did without injury, especially with QBs
dropping like flies around the league. I remember how certain Ravens
defenders talked about Orton with admiration after that game, saying how
he just kept getting up and coming back.

The Broncos had better start protecting their QBs. Because, even if Tebow
starts, it will be about midseason, and we will be talking about who is going
to replace him as starter for the rest of the year (because Orton probably
will be gone).

-----

The same Ravens defense that shut his ass down for 55 minutes of the game until he got some lucky BS TD's to Brandon Lloyd when Denver was already down by 30? The same Ravens defense that the mighty Buffalo Bills and Ryan Fitzpatrick brutalized weeks later?

Orton takes so many hits because he is a statue. We can't build the Great Wall of Denver around him, a QB has to be able to create, he can't. He needs to go. Orton isn't an NFL starter, he's a backup.

The Bears got our QB and are now in the playoffs, we got theirs and now have 3 wins and a destroyed franchise. If Orton feels he has warranted being a starter, great, have him to start for another team eager to win 3 games.

chazoe60
12-23-2010, 12:29 AM
I can almost guarantee that anywhere Kyle Orton goes, if he is announced as their starter, fans will not take long before calling for a change. There is good reason for it. Kyle Orton oozes mediocrity. Watching him lethargically lead an offense to 3 and out after 3 and out is demoralizing to a fanbase. He is honestly the most uninspiring regular starter I have witnessed for the Denver Broncos.

atwater27
12-23-2010, 12:31 AM
Jeebus, y'all were calling on him to be in the Pro Bowl and salivating over a 4000 yard season for him a short month or so ago. Weak.

topscribe
12-23-2010, 12:33 AM
It's cool that you feel that way, but comparing Orton to the radio on a broken down car is kind of minimizing the importance of the starting QB on a professional football team, isn't it? Orton has played well at times and has played poorly at times. As I see it, he's just as responsible for the W/L ratio this season as the rest of the team. You can say he's not the problem, but his extremely poor 3rd down conversion %, his complete lack of passion as he ho-hums his way to the bench after every 3 and out, and poor play when he's behind in the 4th quarter with a chance to win tell me all I need to know.

Kyle Orton is one of the best backup QBs in the league.

That is twice in this thread I have seen remarks about Orton's third down
conversions. Documentation was provided right in this forum to show how
Orton was faced with a majority of third-and-8+ for most of the season.
Then the same documentation showed how even Peyton Manning had a
very low conversion rate under the same conditions.

I also noticed that Tebow was 2/12 on third downs last Sunday. Yes, that
was his first game, but a QB ordinarily has problems with third-and-longs.
This is the NFL. Give Tebow, Orton, or Peyton Manning four yards or less to
convert third downs, and their success will improve dramatically.

And just because he isn't like a teenage girl with pom-poms, jumping up
and down out there doesn't mean he lacks in passion. In fact, I have heard
him complimented for how cool he is, no matter the situation. I don't think
it is fair of us to require him to act according to our concepts of behavior.

As I said before:

Regarding Tebow, let me see how he does after opponents have gathered
all kinds of game film on him.

Regardless of who is the QB, give us a better defense, a better running
game, better protection for the QB, and either one is going to look worlds
better than they will otherwise, no matter who starts.

-----

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 12:33 AM
Reminds me of Jay Fiedler (36-23)... people couldn't wait to get rid of the guy in Miami... you know what they got after him...

AJ Feeley
Sage Rosenfels
Gus Frerotte
Joey Harrington
Daunte Culpepper
Cleo Lemon
Trent Green
John Beck

Orton was 29-19 coming into this season, was on record pace, before he suddenly dropped off... people for whatever reason don't ever want to believe he is injured, didn't want to after last year and conveniently forget that his downturn started after he was injured in the Washington game.

I get that people want to see Tebow, but the guy isn't ready ... some fans just want to piss away 2011 just because Orton doesn't do enough for them... it is the stupidest thing I've seen from Broncos fans... I mean, ORTON is NOT the reason we lost so many games... It's like you have this car... tires are flat, transmission is shot and fans are worried about the damn factory radio not being good enough for them... you just want to scream sometimes at how ridiculous it is.... I mean it makes zero sense why Broncos fans target so much hate and criticism to one of the few things that wasn't totally trash this year... just mind boggling.

I love how you annoint yourself "all-knowing" and the rest of us Bronco fans are just idiots... Yet your takes are right about as much as Mike McCoy's playcalling.

So the Dolphins have had bad luck at QB. Wow! That means Denver is cursed! I mean, the Packers sure took a long time to replace Brett Favre, right? How about the Chargers? It took them an eternity to replace Drew Brees with Rivers, right? Or how about the Steelers, had a decent QB in Tommy Maddox, who got hurt and a young "not ready" QB named Big Ben steps in and leads them to a Super Bowl, you know, the first and ONLY one of Bill Cowher's career?

It's those teams like the Dolphins who accept mediocrity who miss out on the great players.

Hell, the Chiefs have spent the better part of 30 years trying to find a QB to replace Len Dawson, they MIGHT have found it in Matt Cassel, or maybe not.

Orton isn't the reason Denver is 3-11, but Orton isn't the reason Denver ISN'T 3-11 either. If Orton starts at Oakland last week in all reality Oakland destroys the Broncos AGAIN this year.

What amazes me is that such a gifted football mind like yourself thinks he needs to come here and bash the rest of us lower-life-forms but STILL thinks Kyle Orton gives Denver the best chance to win.

A raw and rookie Tim Tebow showed more heart and leadership in 60 minutes of football than Kyle Orton has shown in 5 years.

Jake Klug
12-23-2010, 12:34 AM
Orton will always get pummeled, though. He is not mobile at all and will take big shots if you don't protect him really well.

Yeah, if Orton would have been in on a broken play (like Tebow was on the 40 yard TD), he would have slumped to the ground like a sack of potatoes.

topscribe
12-23-2010, 12:35 AM
The same Ravens defense that shut his ass down for 55 minutes of the game until he got some lucky BS TD's to Brandon Lloyd when Denver was already down by 30? The same Ravens defense that the mighty Buffalo Bills and Ryan Fitzpatrick brutalized weeks later?

Orton takes so many hits because he is a statue. We can't build the Great Wall of Denver around him, a QB has to be able to create, he can't. He needs to go. Orton isn't an NFL starter, he's a backup.

The Bears got our QB and are now in the playoffs, we got theirs and now have 3 wins and a destroyed franchise. If Orton feels he has warranted being a starter, great, have him to start for another team eager to win 3 games.

Um . . . okay. Now that you have said that, do you have anything to offer
regarding the post you quoted?

-----

Jake Klug
12-23-2010, 12:36 AM
I love how you annoint yourself "all-knowing" and the rest of us Bronco fans are just idiots... Yet your takes are right about as much as Mike McCoy's playcalling.

So the Dolphins have had bad luck at QB. Wow! That means Denver is cursed! I mean, the Packers sure took a long time to replace Brett Favre, right? How about the Chargers? It took them an eternity to replace Drew Brees with Rivers, right? Or how about the Steelers, had a decent QB in Tommy Maddox, who got hurt and a young "not ready" QB named Big Ben steps in and leads them to a Super Bowl, you know, the first and ONLY one of Bill Cowher's career?

It's those teams like the Dolphins who accept mediocrity who miss out on the great players.

Hell, the Chiefs have spent the better part of 30 years trying to find a QB to replace Len Dawson, they MIGHT have found it in Matt Cassel, or maybe not.

Orton isn't the reason Denver is 3-11, but Orton isn't the reason Denver ISN'T 3-11 either. If Orton starts at Oakland last week in all reality Oakland destroys the Broncos AGAIN this year.

What amazes me is that such a gifted football mind like yourself thinks he needs to come here and bash the rest of us lower-life-forms but STILL thinks Kyle Orton gives Denver the best chance to win.

A raw and rookie Tim Tebow showed more heart and leadership in 60 minutes of football than Kyle Orton has shown in 5 years.

What!?

topscribe
12-23-2010, 12:38 AM
Okay. So this is deteriorating into an Orton bash-fest. I was trying to discuss
the topic of this thread, not get into a debate with lunatic assumptions about
Orton.

If I can make my way around the woodies for Tebow, I'm checking out of here.

-----

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 12:39 AM
That is twice in this thread I have seen remarks about Orton's third down
conversions. Documentation was provided right in this forum to show how
Orton was faced with a majority of third-and-8+ for most of the season.
Then the same documentation showed how even Peyton Manning had a
very low conversion rate under the same conditions.

I also noticed that Tebow was 2/12 on third downs last Sunday. Yes, that
was his first game, but a QB ordinarily has problems with third-and-longs.
This is the NFL. Give Tebow, Orton, or Peyton Manning four yards or less to
convert third downs, and their success will improve dramatically.

And just because he isn't like a teenage girl with pom-poms, jumping up
and down out there doesn't mean he lacks in passion. In fact, I have heard
him complimented for how cool he is, no matter the situation. I don't think
it is fair of us to require him to act according to our concepts of behavior.

As I said before:

Regarding Tebow, let me see how he does after opponents have gathered
all kinds of game film on him.

Regardless of who is the QB, give us a better defense, a better running
game, better protection for the QB, and either one is going to look worlds
better than they will otherwise, no matter who starts.

-----

TOP, that is incorrect. A poster on here broke down 3rd down conversions on Kyle Orton and he is worse on 3rd and 3 than he is on 3rd and 8, and the "myth" of Denver facing the most 3rd and longs is just that, a MYTH.

I showed you in the past 3 weeks how Orton had a solid running game to back him up yet couldn't produce whatsoever. Yet there he was slinging 70 yard passes in practice one day (according to himself) and the next day was too injured to participate in skip drills. Ok, whatever... :lol:

Either way, it must get old for you guys having to defend his inability to convert and keep the offense on the field.

In 2008 Denver was 47.5% on 3rd downs.
In 2009 Denver was 36% on 3rd downs.

Rushing yards were almost identical. The difference? Jay Cutler.

Orton got booed in Chicago, he got booed in Denver. He'll get booed at his next destination. He's not good enough to justify causing this much turmoil on a roster.

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 12:42 AM
What!?

Meaning if you put a legit NFL QB in place of Orton for 14 games Denver likely has more wins. Orton didn't outright lose many games, he did lose the KC and Arizona games, but other than that he just didn't WIN them, whereas a true Pro Bowler like Vick, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, any of the others would have likely won 6 or more games with this roster.

So saying that Orton isn't the reason Denver is 3-11 is weak. He did nothing to rise up and win them more games either, and he handles every snap.

topscribe
12-23-2010, 12:43 AM
You are very right there. Whether Orton or Tebow starts, the Broncos are
going to have an awfully highly paid backup. That will have to end soon, in
Mr. Bowlen's eyes, I would think . . . it would in mine, anyway . . .

-----

This is . . .was . . . the topic of the thread.

But have it your own way. I'm not surprised this would deteriorate into
another let's-bash-Orton thread.

Have fun! :wave:

-----

BeefStew25
12-23-2010, 12:44 AM
This is . . .was . . . the topic of the thread.

But have it your own way. I'm not surprised this would deteriorate into
another let's-bash-Orton thread.

Have fun! :wave:

-----

Pity parties are unbecoming.

Jake Klug
12-23-2010, 12:46 AM
Meaning if you put a legit NFL QB in place of Orton for 14 games Denver likely has more wins. Orton didn't outright lose many games, he did lose the KC and Arizona games, but other than that he just didn't WIN them, whereas a true Pro Bowler like Vick, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, any of the others would have likely won 6 or more games with this roster.

So saying that Orton isn't the reason Denver is 3-11 is weak. He did nothing to rise up and win them more games either, and he handles every snap.

OK, Im still not sure if that sentence made sense but this explanation does, so Ill go with it.

Jake Klug
12-23-2010, 12:50 AM
This is . . .was . . . the topic of the thread.
But have it your own way. I'm not surprised this would deteriorate into
another let's-bash-Orton thread.

Have fun! :wave:

-----

Not really.

Actually, the topic of Orton expecting to start has many permutations...it can branch off in a lot of different directions. Its a broad topic.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-23-2010, 12:53 AM
That is twice in this thread I have seen remarks about Orton's third down
conversions. Documentation was provided right in this forum to show how
Orton was faced with a majority of third-and-8+ for most of the season.
Then the same documentation showed how even Peyton Manning had a
very low conversion rate under the same conditions.

I also noticed that Tebow was 2/12 on third downs last Sunday. Yes, that
was his first game, but a QB ordinarily has problems with third-and-longs.
This is the NFL. Give Tebow, Orton, or Peyton Manning four yards or less to
convert third downs, and their success will improve dramatically.

And just because he isn't like a teenage girl with pom-poms, jumping up
and down out there doesn't mean he lacks in passion. In fact, I have heard
him complimented for how cool he is, no matter the situation. I don't think
it is fair of us to require him to act according to our concepts of behavior.

As I said before:

Regarding Tebow, let me see how he does after opponents have gathered
all kinds of game film on him.

Regardless of who is the QB, give us a better defense, a better running
game, better protection for the QB, and either one is going to look worlds
better than they will otherwise, no matter who starts.

-----

You make some points, but instead of just looking at the stats, I'm going to go with situations. Last year, Kyle Orton was our starting QB. The running game was better, the pass protection was somewhat better, the defense was worlds better for most of the year and all we asked kyle to do was manage the game and not turn the ball over. We struggled on 3rd down and in the red-zone posting some of the worst stats in the league in those areas. We finished the season 8-8.

This season, the keys to the offense were handed to Kyle Orton. No longer was he a "game manager". The ball was given to him and he was sent forth to throw the football and win games. Throw he did, win he did not. Our defense has been worse and is giving up more points, but our offense is also scoring less points than last year. Our running game has been poor - but even on games when it was working, the coaches put the ball in Kyle's hands and let him throw it instead of sticking with the run. The entire offensive game plan was designed to be orchestrated by Kyle Orton to his strengths and with his type of weapons (WRs who adjust well to somewhat underthrown passes). Our points total has gone down. Kyle was looking worse than a rookie and was being outplayed by them week after week (Bradford, Skelton). We were 3-10 When Kyle got the hook for Tebow.

Bruised ribs or not, everyone and their brother knew that the only way Bowlen was going to sell out the last 2 home games was for Tebow to play. The fans had spoken and Bowlen listened (much like the firing of McDaniels). Now, Kyle has to watch and see if Tebow can perform on the field. If he does, Kyle won't need to worry about starting in Denver next year, he'll need to worry about putting his house on the market because he will be traded. If Tebow flops, there may still be hope for Kyle, but that door is shutting on him rapidly in Denver. Just the way it is when you're only an average player in this league.

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 01:05 AM
In fact, something else just happened that has persuaded me not to post
here much anymore. So you can all enjoy the board. I hope you do. That
is why I initially worked so hard to get it to this state.

And have a nice life . . .

-----

Come on man, that's a bit over-dramatic. It's just football talk.

BroncoWave
12-23-2010, 01:11 AM
Come on man, that's a bit over-dramatic. It's just football talk.

The less drama on this board the better, so adios I say.

dogfish
12-23-2010, 01:38 AM
Okay. So this is deteriorating into an Orton bash-fest. I was trying to discuss
the topic of this thread, not get into a debate with lunatic assumptions about
Orton.

If I can make my way around the woodies for Tebow, I'm checking out of here.

-----

"tebowners" is the proper technical term. . .

Nomad
12-23-2010, 10:13 AM
"tebowners" is the proper technical term. . .

Sounds like an urban dictionary or wiki entry!!:D


I don't see Orton as the starting QB of the BRONCOS. He will be second fiddle to either Tebow or Luck depending on which way Elway wants to go and yes, I believe Elway will have that much influence on the BRONCOS QB situation!! If Johnnyboy wants to break the bank on Luck, Bowlen will let him do so and if Johnnyboy believes in Tebow then Bowlen will trust his decision. Orton has played his last start for the BRONCOS!!

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 11:23 AM
Let see what happens. Maybe Kyle was just told that Tebow would be starting the rest of the year and he spoke out about it while he was perplexed or his ego was bruised a little. I think Kyle would make a fantastic backup QB. I much rather the message board and the fans debate it then to have it effect the locker room. While Kyle may feel like he is and should start next year is not up to him. Go Broncos!

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 11:56 AM
Let see what happens. Maybe Kyle was just told that Tebow would be starting the rest of the year and he spoke out about it while he was perplexed or his ego was bruised a little. I think Kyle would make a fantastic backup QB. I much rather the message board and the fans debate it then to have it effect the locker room. While Kyle may feel like he is and should start next year is not up to him. Go Broncos!

It's obvious that Orton believes he is an NFL starter... What a joke. He's proven everything but that. 2 franchises that will be better without him; Chicago and Denver.

broncofaninfla
12-23-2010, 11:57 AM
Some quotes from him today per Lindsay Jones:

"Orton: The way it was presented to me is that [Tebow will] be the starter the rest of the season, and that’s just how it goes. ..."

"They made a decision. I’m not going to sit here and fight a decision. The decision is made."

"Orton on '11: "If I’m going to be here, I’m expecting to be the starter. I don’t think my play has warranted anything other than that."

"I understand that as an org you have a lot invested in a 1st rnd draft pick + you want to see him play, so that’s how it goes."

www.twitter.com/postbroncos (http://www.twitter.com/postbroncos)

Sorry Kyle, but I respectfully disagree that your play hasn't warranted "anything other than that". His play as of late has warranted anything but that.

I would hope Orton feels this way, every player should play to start. I just in 2011 that isn't that case with Orton, that would mean we still need a QB.

BroncoWave
12-23-2010, 12:10 PM
I would hope Orton feels this way, every player should play to start. I just in 2011 that isn't that case with Orton, that would mean we still need a QB.

I don't have a problem with him wanting to be the starter. I just have a problem with his quote making it seem like he is entitled to be the starter based on how he has played. Since that 6-0 start, he has led the team to a 5-18 record with no impressive numbers other than his yards. It's one thing to say he wants to be the starter, but to say he expects it based on his play is just a bit rich to me.

I Eat Staples
12-23-2010, 03:22 PM
I can't blame Kyle for wanting to start, as that is the goal of every football player. I also don't think two bad games erases an otherwise excellent season.

BroncoWave
12-23-2010, 03:24 PM
I can't blame Kyle for wanting to start, as that is the goal of every football player. I also don't think two bad games erases an otherwise excellent season.

No one is blaming him for wanting to start. I am blaming him for the sense of entitlement he seems to have.

I Eat Staples
12-23-2010, 03:31 PM
No one is blaming him for wanting to start. I am blaming him for the sense of entitlement he seems to have.

I don't think he feels entitled, he just feels like his play has earned him a starting spot. Many people would disagree with that, but that's a matter of opinion, so you may think he has an over-inflated view of himself but I doubt he feels entitled.

vandammage13
12-23-2010, 03:34 PM
I don't think he feels entitled, he just feels like his play has earned him a starting spot. Many people would disagree with that, but that's a matter of opinion, so you may think he has an over-inflated view of himself but I doubt he feels entitled.

Unfortunately for Orton, his opinions aren't shared by the organization.

LordTrychon
12-23-2010, 03:40 PM
Unfortunately for Orton, his opinions aren't shared by the organization.

We don't even know who the organization is right now.

NittanyBuff24
12-23-2010, 03:40 PM
Orton will be the starter.

F**K Orton!

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 03:50 PM
Well, what Orton said to the media was something he may have wanted to take the 5th on. Now fans think Orton may think he is entitled or sour or have some type of issue with the FO. No where in his statement did I hear team player. I understand the guy wants to play. I feel he is a great back up QB only.

Orton on '11: "If I’m going to be here, I’m expecting to be the starter. I don’t think my play has warranted anything other than that."

Expecting and earning the starting position is two different things. He has great stats but 3rd down conversions and scoring are different along with the "IT" factor that he does not have. Orton is over looking his stats or lack of stats. I like the guy but some guys are better than others and I do think Tebow is and can be much better. I want Orton to stay here but the starting QB in 11 no. If you keep reading his statement and looking at his stats one has to wonder what Orton is thinking.

I Eat Staples
12-23-2010, 04:00 PM
Unfortunately for Orton, his opinions aren't shared by the organization.

Never said they were, I was simply responding to someone who said Orton felt entitled.

vandammage13
12-23-2010, 04:01 PM
We don't even know who the organization is right now.

lol...this is true

vandammage13
12-23-2010, 04:02 PM
Never said they were, I was simply responding to someone who said Orton felt entitled.

And I never said that you said they were...:beer:

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 05:45 PM
Maybe this is Orton's way of saying to the organization "Trade me"... He's not dumb, he knows he isn't going to be the starter in Denver. This may get him sent to a team who he feels he has a fair shot to start for.

PAINTERDAVE
12-23-2010, 05:49 PM
Deal is..
Not only is Orton average... He is deceptive.

He looks great in practice.
He is great between the 20's.
He has impressive stats...

but where it counts...
in the red zone...
in crunch time...
on a broken play...
when he needs to step up and actually MAKE some magic happen...
he fails miserably.

Next season... he will be all rested up..
and he will look GREAT in mini camp and practice.

Deceptivly great.

Like "when there is no pressure, I am better than anybody else" great.

That is the danger of keeping him around.
The real games are played under intense pressure.
Starting him, based on how he does this off season under no stress,
could doom the next season as well.

You cant infuse him with leadership ability.
You cant change his lethargic, mopey demeanor.
You can't make him into a finisher and a winner.
He just aint got that part of the equation in his soul.

Snuffleupagus needs to be traded.

End of discussion.

PAINTERDAVE
12-23-2010, 05:52 PM
And I still love ya, Top!

EMB6903
12-23-2010, 05:53 PM
Orton isnt a play maker and IMO a quitter.

Had Orton started the game sunday Denver would have been blown out in the 1st quarter.


3rd and 24? turns into a 4th and 18 and we punt the ball with no points on the board. Oakland gets the ball right back up 7-0 with a ton of momentum.

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 05:59 PM
Orton isnt a play maker and IMO a quitter.

Had Orton started the game sunday Denver would have been blown out in the 1st quarter.


3rd and 24? turns into a 4th and 18 and we punt the ball with no points on the board. Oakland gets the ball right back up 7-0 with a ton of momentum.

Exactly. It doesn't take a 160 IQ to grasp this, yet some seem so stubborn to open their eyes. This is the EXACT argument Bears fans had for years with Orton vs Grossman, only Grossman hadn't shown himself to have nearly the talent Tebow does...

Orton caused so much disarray in that franchise with his deceptive (as PD said above) play that they were never able to turn the corner until Grossman got his chance and led them to the Super Bowl.

Then when McD came knocking offering up our franchise QB (Cutler) the Bear front office and their paying fans couldn't believe their luck. Pawn Orton off on us and get our young QB...

Now, 2 years later, the fact that there is STILL even a hint of a debate that Orton should have a shot to start after his 11-18 record and comical 3rd down coversion rates is pretty much disgusting.

An unproven Tebow gives you a better chance to win than a 5 year pro Kyle Orton does, right now, at this very second. For the sake of this team and the development of the young players Kyle Orton needs to be sent to another roster. He just does not seem willing to allow the offense to move forward without him in the lineup.

TXBRONC
12-23-2010, 07:05 PM
We don't even know who the organization is right now.

Yes we do. The organization is SPECTRE. Don't be surprised if you see James Bond driving around Denver in his Aston Martin.

Dzone
12-23-2010, 08:15 PM
haha...
anyway, this Orton coddling is weak. Saying that sulking is a sign of a professional, a competitor...give me a break..his attitude is in no way , shape or form helpful to the team. When John Elway replaced Steve Deberg, Deberg didnt whine and speak of his displeasure. Ortons behavior is very selfish. He is lucky he didnt get benched way before he hurt his ribs.He should have been. If we can get a decent defender in trade, he should be traded away at the first opportunity. What is he going to act like next year? He is nothing but a distraction to what this team needs to do to turn int around. There are a ton of teams who are desperate for any decent quarterback. He could prob start in SF, Miami, Minnesota, cincinnati...He is displaying poor sportsmanship and his sulking and head hanging is not what this franchise needs around. Sorry, please dont take it personal if you like Orton. I dont hate Orton. I just dont care for the guy. he has a personality that rubs people the wrong way.

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 08:35 PM
haha...
anyway, this Orton coddling is weak. Saying that sulking is a sign of a professional, a competitor...give me a break..his attitude is in no way , shape or form helpful to the team. When John Elway replaced Steve Deberg, Deberg didnt whine and speak of his displeasure. Ortons behavior is very selfish. He is lucky he didnt get benched way before he hurt his ribs.He should have been. If we can get a decent defender in trade, he should be traded away at the first opportunity. What is he going to act like next year? He is nothing but a distraction to what this team needs to do to turn int around. There are a ton of teams who are desperate for any decent quarterback. He could prob start in SF, Miami, Minnesota, cincinnati...He is displaying poor sportsmanship and his sulking and head hanging is not what this franchise needs around. Sorry, please dont take it personal if you like Orton. I dont hate Orton. I just dont care for the guy. he has a personality that rubs people the wrong way.

Dzone, I have been trying to point out all along about the "IT" factor that Tebow has verses Orton. Now we see the true Orton, very selfish and not thinking about the team or HIS stats in his very own words. It is no surprise I like Tebow, I want the best QB to play, Tebow is the best we have right now. Orton seems to have missed the boat on this one. Orton is and can be an excellent back up QB. I guess McD never told him this. Orton has missed what it really takes to be a QB, that is leadership and ownership on the field. I want Orton to stay here but, only as the backup QB which I do not think he will like therefore we now have a negative (bad apple) player in the locker room and right now, we just do not need that. The Bronco organization is going to take time to get back together and with a stubborn or opinionated sour player, we just cannot take that right now. I am sure Orton is hurt but don't let your hurt effect the locker room.

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2010, 08:41 PM
LMAO

There is no such thing as the "IT" factor.

This is getting beyond ridiculous and crossing over to embarrassment.

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 08:41 PM
I can't blame Kyle for wanting to start, as that is the goal of every football player. I also don't think two bad games erases an otherwise excellent season.

I am going to respectfully challenge you on this. Orton has not only had just 2 bad games. He has not had an excellent season. You and others have asked me what the "It" factor is. The 'It" factor is Tebow his winning attitude his control and understanding of each play. Please just give this guy a chance. We have given Orton the chance and look at the last 2 seasons. Just give Tebow a chance and I think you will find that Tebow has the "it" factor and Orton does not. I am sure Orton plays and practices hard. Winning and improving his stats are something different. Look, we all can throw 4000 yards but at the end of the day, if you cannot score then what do you have?

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 08:45 PM
LMAO

There is no such thing as the "IT" factor.

This is getting beyond ridiculous and crossing over to embarrassment.



Respectfully understand your post. The "it" factor is leadership and ownership on the field. The factor says you can throw for 4000 yards and convert on 3rd downs. The factor means you can block for your running backs. The factor will continue to show you after Sunday what that means. With all due respect, Tebow has it and Orton does not. Orton will make an excellent back up QB in the NFL. I expect Tebow to make mistakes. Orton has been in the league for 5 years and well, he is still the same QB he was 5 years ago. If Orton had the "It" factor, he would not have made that statement to the press today.

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2010, 08:47 PM
You and others have asked me what the "It" factor is. The 'It" factor is Tebow his winning attitude his control and understanding of each play.

Tebow has the "it" factor and Orton does not.

http://www.thegamerslab.com/community/images/smilies/lordthatsfunny.gif

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Respectfully understand your post. The "it" factor is leadership and ownership on the field. The factor says you can throw for 4000 yards and convert on 3rd downs. The factor means you can block for your running backs. The factor will continue to show you after Sunday what that means. With all due respect, Tebow has it and Orton does not. Orton will make an excellent back up QB in the NFL. I expect Tebow to make mistakes. Orton has been in the league for 5 years and well, he is still the same QB he was 5 years ago. If Orton had the "It" factor, he would not have made that statement to the press today.

Orton doesn't have "any" factor. He just sucks.

As far as your definition of the "IT" factor, I;m sorry, but IMHO you are just reaching for straws. Forget the "IT" factor. Get me a guy in here who can lead his team down the field and score, ala Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton manning, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlesberger, etc.....

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 09:02 PM
Orton doesn't have "any" factor. He just sucks.

As far as your definition of the "IT" factor, I;m sorry, but IMHO you are just reaching for straws. Forget the "IT" factor. Get me a guy in here who can lead his team down the field and score, ala Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton manning, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlesberger, etc.....

For heavens sakes we have it. Tebow has played one game with out snaps with the first team. Please, please give this guy a chance, he will not disappoint. Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Tebow will be mentioned eventually in one sentence. if not, at least watch Tebow is fun action. He is a good QB and will get even better, we are going to be so proud of him. Just give him the same chance we gave Orton. God Speed!!!

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2010, 09:07 PM
For heavens sakes we have it. Tebow has played one game with out snaps with the first team. Please, please give this guy a chance, he will not disappoint. Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Tebow will be mentioned eventually in one sentence. if not, at least watch Tebow is fun action. He is a good QB and will get even better, we are going to be so proud of him. Just give him the same chance we gave Orton. God Speed!!!

I don't understand this, "please give him a chance" business. Nobody is writing him off. We're waiting to see what kind of player he is. We're simply not crowinging him for the HoF, like you seem to be without saying so much.

Also, you are completely wrong about Orton. Nobody here gave him a chance when he became the QB. Not alot of people even wanted him as our QB. TYou were not a Denver fan last year so you would not know that.

NOBODY, is writing Tebvow off, and at the same time somehow gave Orton a chance like you are insinuating. That's just an absolutely ridiculous argument.

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 09:18 PM
I don't understand this, "please give him a chance" business. Nobody is writing him off. We're waiting to see what kind of player he is. We're simply not crowinging him for the HoF, like you seem to be without saying so much.

Also, you are completely wrong about Orton. Nobody here gave him a chance when he became the QB. Not alot of people even wanted him as our QB. TYou were not a Denver fan last year so you would not know that.

NOBODY, is writing Tebvow off, and at the same time somehow gave Orton a chance like you are insinuating. That's just an absolutely ridiculous argument.

You are absolutely right. I was not a fan last year but, Orton played didn't he. His stats are listed aren't they. I did not mean that you or anyone has written Tebow off it is not really an argument. What is going on here with the Broncos is the stats Orton has put up. Yes Denver did give Orton a chance and look at what has happened (not all Orton fault) yet, with 5 years in the league just how much has he improved? Do you see leadership and commanding on the field with Orton playing? Do you see how many losses we have and the lack of total production on the offensive side of the field? Have you really looked at the 3rd down conversion stats? Have we all looked at Orton's completion rate.

In Orton's statement, I read that he was mad, disappointed and dismayed and so out of the loop he does not see the writing on the wall. It is very obvious, Mcd was an idiot but he knew to draft another QB. McD did some really stupid stuff, yet he still drafted another QB, WHY? Orton is a back up QB and a great one at that.

Benetto
12-23-2010, 09:21 PM
As long as Orton is our starter, This team will be 3rd or 4th in the AFC west EVERY season. The guy is just plain dumb and untalented. Tebow is raw and inexperienced, but he is a gamer...Dude can turn nothing into something and then some...He's got balls of steel.

If we keep Orton it will be a huge mistake..Shit, Put me on the field and I can hurl any pass into double or triple coverage and hope Lloyd will pull it in too. I can drop back and try to avoid the pressure in the pocket and stupidly take ridiculous sacks without throwing the ball away....Hell I can even throw it left handed if I needed to...Pay me to play, and at least we wont have excuses or blame thrown around like the ball he so ignorantly throws into tight coverage...Just anyone expect Shitty Orton..I can't stand watching him play for my beloved team ANYMORE. Trade him for anything, or just cut him...Please. He really sucks.:coffee:

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2010, 09:23 PM
I think it's quite clear that Orton is not the future of this team/ It's been clear for some time.

The argument here that a lot of people seem to be making, inlcuding yourself, is because Kyle Orton is not the future of this team, obviously Tim Tebow is because he has some unknown factor called "IT".

The rational fan is waiting to see what happens with Tebow. Hell, Sam Bradford has played absolutely great in St Louis with a less supporting cast than Denver's offense, and people are still waiting to see how he's going to develop.....and he has looked much better than Tebow did last Sunday.

Tebow666
12-23-2010, 09:24 PM
Orton is a decent QB who will continue to have a nice career elsewhere.

We thank you for trying, but we must now move on with the man that gives us hope on getting more W instead of L at the end of each game. :coffee:

silkamilkamonico
12-23-2010, 09:25 PM
If we keep Orton it will be a huge mistake..

We need Orton next year. Even if he is to backup Tebow. Even if Tebow does turn out to be a great QB, I worry that his reckless style will expose him to bigger hurts and I do think he will miss games here and there. We do need a quality backup QB with Tebow, because I don't see him as the type of QB where the backup never plays.

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 09:31 PM
I think it's quite clear that Orton is not the future of this team/ It's been clear for some time.

The argument here that a lot of people seem to be making, inlcuding yourself, is because Kyle Orton is not the future of this team, obviously Tim Tebow is because he has some unknown factor called "IT".

The rational fan is waiting to see what happens with Tebow. Hell, Sam Bradford has played absolutely great in St Louis with a less supporting cast than Denver's offense, and people are still waiting to see how he's going to develop.....and he has looked much better than Tebow did last Sunday.

True but Bradford has been playing with the starters, Tebow has not played 1 snap with the starters for 10-12 weeks until Sunday. Look, I just want a chance for Tebow, he may disappoint but give the guy a chance. Your post about Bradford, well come on the guy has played much more in the games than Tebow has and the fact that Bradford has a team in place, look at us right now we have fired McD and we seem to have coaching issues (I think they are not use to having a say in coaching and now have a new lfreedom and outlook at coaching). We have many problems right now but, I do think we can over come them. After next years draft, I really really think the Broncos are going to turn things around. We are looking better and will only get better. :beer:

I Eat Staples
12-23-2010, 09:36 PM
haha...
anyway, this Orton coddling is weak. Saying that sulking is a sign of a professional, a competitor...give me a break..his attitude is in no way , shape or form helpful to the team. When John Elway replaced Steve Deberg, Deberg didnt whine and speak of his displeasure. Ortons behavior is very selfish. He is lucky he didnt get benched way before he hurt his ribs.He should have been. If we can get a decent defender in trade, he should be traded away at the first opportunity. What is he going to act like next year? He is nothing but a distraction to what this team needs to do to turn int around. There are a ton of teams who are desperate for any decent quarterback. He could prob start in SF, Miami, Minnesota, cincinnati...He is displaying poor sportsmanship and his sulking and head hanging is not what this franchise needs around. Sorry, please dont take it personal if you like Orton. I dont hate Orton. I just dont care for the guy. he has a personality that rubs people the wrong way.

I like Orton, but the guy isn't rubbing me in any way. :lol:


I am going to respectfully challenge you on this. Orton has not only had just 2 bad games. He has not had an excellent season. You and others have asked me what the "It" factor is. The 'It" factor is Tebow his winning attitude his control and understanding of each play. Please just give this guy a chance. We have given Orton the chance and look at the last 2 seasons. Just give Tebow a chance and I think you will find that Tebow has the "it" factor and Orton does not. I am sure Orton plays and practices hard. Winning and improving his stats are something different. Look, we all can throw 4000 yards but at the end of the day, if you cannot score then what do you have?

I'm pretty sure neither me nor you could throw for 4,000 yards. But maybe that's because we don't have the IT factor.


Respectfully understand your post. The "it" factor is leadership and ownership on the field. The factor says you can throw for 4000 yards and convert on 3rd downs. The factor means you can block for your running backs. The factor will continue to show you after Sunday what that means. With all due respect, Tebow has it and Orton does not. Orton will make an excellent back up QB in the NFL. I expect Tebow to make mistakes. Orton has been in the league for 5 years and well, he is still the same QB he was 5 years ago. If Orton had the "It" factor, he would not have made that statement to the press today.

Oh, I was led to believe the IT factor had something to do with play on the field. Now it effects press conferences. Maybe this IT factor assists Tebow in cooking dinner for the team as well?


For heavens sakes we have it. Tebow has played one game with out snaps with the first team. Please, please give this guy a chance, he will not disappoint. Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Tebow will be mentioned eventually in one sentence. if not, at least watch Tebow is fun action. He is a good QB and will get even better, we are going to be so proud of him. Just give him the same chance we gave Orton. God Speed!!!

Come on, that's just stooping to a Jagsbch level.

CrazyHorse
12-23-2010, 09:37 PM
Of course Orton will be starting next year....

On another team!

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 09:40 PM
Of course Orton will be starting next year....

On another team!



Merry Christmas and God Speed.

JaxBroncoGirl
12-23-2010, 09:43 PM
[QUOTE=I Eat Staples;1163437]I like Orton, but the guy isn't rubbing me in any way. :lol:



I'm pretty sure neither me nor you could throw for 4,000 yards. But maybe that's because we don't have the IT factor.



Oh, I was led to believe the IT factor had something to do with play on the field. Now it effects press conferences. Maybe this IT factor assists Tebow in cooking dinner for the team as well?

I kinda thought we would could meet in the middle. Oh well. I guess we will continue to agree to disagree on football and I can tell on most everything else. I do wish you a Merry Christmas and God Speed. Go Broncos!!!!!!:beer:

I Eat Staples
12-23-2010, 09:53 PM
[QUOTE=I Eat Staples;1163437]I like Orton, but the guy isn't rubbing me in any way. :lol:



I'm pretty sure neither me nor you could throw for 4,000 yards. But maybe that's because we don't have the IT factor.



Oh, I was led to believe the IT factor had something to do with play on the field. Now it effects press conferences. Maybe this IT factor assists Tebow in cooking dinner for the team as well?

I kinda thought we would could meet in the middle. Oh well. I guess we will continue to agree to disagree on football and I can tell on most everything else. I do wish you a Merry Christmas and God Speed. Go Broncos!!!!!!:beer:

Comparing Tim Tebow to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady is anything but meeting in the middle.

But I wish you a Merry Christmas as well, and of course, go Broncos. :salute:

Benetto
12-23-2010, 10:06 PM
We need Orton next year. Even if he is to backup Tebow. Even if Tebow does turn out to be a great QB, I worry that his reckless style will expose him to bigger hurts and I do think he will miss games here and there. We do need a quality backup QB with Tebow, because I don't see him as the type of QB where the backup never plays.

I fully respect this and agree 100% with everything about Tebow and his style of play. As long as its not Orton backing him up...Honestly I think there are a few better candidates for #2 or 3 QB on the roster..Especially with a new coach coming in with a new system.


Orton is much better off without the Broncos, and the Broncos much better off without him. It's time for the real deal at Invesco, be it Tebow or someone else behind center...Other than Orton.


But hey, that's just my opinion...

BroncoStud
12-23-2010, 11:42 PM
Agreed, Orton had his chance, he's had 2 years of chances, if he feels his play warrants a starting role in Denver, he's dumber than I thought. He needs to go, he doesn't want to be a backup, he doesn't want to mentor the young players. He has no purpose on this roster other than to cause issue at a later date.

Dzone
12-25-2010, 05:53 AM
send orton packing. he sucks. he's a joke

BroncoWave
12-25-2010, 08:34 AM
LMAO

There is no such thing as the "IT" factor.

This is getting beyond ridiculous and crossing over to embarrassment.

If someone had said this about a player you thought was good, 100% chance you don't make this post.

Clipworthy
12-25-2010, 09:13 AM
orton doesn't win. never has, never will. simple as that

Jake Klug
12-25-2010, 09:55 AM
Orton can be usful with a team that has everything else and is ready to win now. Thats not where Denver is at now. Denver is at rebuild and they need someone young who is getting in at the ground floor with the rebuild.

They also need to get someone else to be a backup. It will depend on the new offense. I think Alex Smith makes a lot of sense in most scenarios.

Shazam!
12-25-2010, 09:58 AM
Dear Mr. Orton,

The only current Broncos QB who is probably going to be on this roster in 2011 is Tim Tebow.

Thank you for your service to this team and Merry Christmas,

Shazam

Clipworthy
12-25-2010, 10:16 AM
They also need to get someone else to be a backup. It will depend on the new offense. I think Alex Smith makes a lot of sense in most scenarios.

I'd say a seasoned vet is the way to go

Dzone
12-25-2010, 11:28 AM
I was all for keeping Orton until I saw his pathetic press conference. He isnt going to cooperate next year with Tebow starting and will sulk and hang his head all year. Why keep someone like that around? Does anyone recall Gary Kubiak complaining that he should be the starter over Elway?Orton also didnt take part in offseason training with teammates. Thats not being a team player, thats total selfishness. Orton is a poor excuse for a quarterback. His leadership skills are utterly weak. Let him go and lose for someone else.

Juriga72
12-25-2010, 12:32 PM
I think that Kyle has a great shot at starting next year, his abilities make him so important that it would be hard to replace him.

Of course The Colorado Ice would LOVE to have a player of Kyle's talent on its team, and well.... thats all he'll get a chance to play next year..JV Indoor football