PDA

View Full Version : Knowshow moreno



SOCALORADO.
12-20-2010, 05:52 PM
So whats the deal with this guy?
He has missed both camps and preseasons since being drafted with injuries and has missed 4 complete regular season games and a boat load of time in the rest of the games gimping around trying to play injured.

DEN needs a legitimate #1 back who can carry it 25+ times per game. Moreno has some skill that can work in the NFL as a 3rd down back, but the whole super star, gonna light it up stuff is laughable. Hes slow, a horrible blocker, and always injured in some way. He could possibly work as a 3rd down back like Kevin Faulk or even Ricky Watters, but as for being drafted #12, he went waay too high, and is being paid waay too much. DEN could have found a RB of equal or even better production in later rounds.
And whats with the excessive, goofy celebrations in the end zone, down by 40?
He does seem to play well against KC though, so DEN fans got that goin for them...
I say draft a game changing, top tier RB to compliment the offense and TT.
Draft this guy in the 2nd.

Mikel Leshoure
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/i/20091031-illini-football-michigan/fbmich09-953.jpg

hotcarl
12-20-2010, 05:53 PM
knowshon moreno? more like blowshon boreno, this boring waste of space blows

just an fyi : i would like to invite you all to my 500th post celebration thread

i will be starting it soon, it should be a lot of fun, we will have posts, and maybe some pics, and blevens said he would come :welcome:

Dzone
12-20-2010, 05:59 PM
Yep, I liked the guy when he was at Georgia, but he is looking more and more like another Mcdaniels BLUNDER...ugh...12th overall pick? OMG what a waste...The guy is constantly injured...Thanks a lot Mcdaniels

jhildebrand
12-20-2010, 06:01 PM
glass gina

Dzone
12-20-2010, 06:01 PM
just an fyi : i would like to invite you all to my 500th post celebration thread

i will be starting it soon, it should be a lot of fun, we will have posts, and maybe some pics, and blevens said he would come :welcome:
Hey sounds good! Congratulations
I just noticed that I have crossed the 1,000 post mark...not sure what that means...do I need to get a life? lol

claymore
12-20-2010, 06:01 PM
Im hopeful He and Ayers look alot better under better coaches, and schemes.

Rex
12-20-2010, 06:04 PM
Im hopeful He and Ayers look alot better under better coaches, and schemes.

Yeah. If he stays healthy for 5 min.

:idiot:

Day1BroncoFan
12-20-2010, 06:04 PM
Hey sounds good! Congratulations
I just noticed that I have crossed the 1,000 post mark...not sure what that means...do I need to get a life? lol

That happens when you have more than 26,000.

Softskull
12-20-2010, 06:10 PM
That happens when you have more than 26,000.

You get therapy and are slowly reintroduced to your family.

G_Money
12-20-2010, 06:12 PM
Is there a blocking scheme or offensive linemen who are gonna make holes?

No?

Then don't worry about the RB. Knowshon is fine when healthy, just start treating him like Fred Taylor and get a couple of other backs in here. We need to fix the blocking and line personnel first.

None of the added backs need to be immediate studs, btw. Some backs like Vai Taua will be available later, and be perfectly capable of toting the rock for a couple of years while we put the D and OL back together and finish paying off Moreno.

Just grab a bunch of backs and let them fight for roster spots. It's not the most pressing need. The easiest position to fill on a pro roster is RB - that's why the average life-expectancy of one in the NFL is so short. A batallion of em come out every year.

And after watching Moreno fail to be an impact player in his first two years, as the first RB taken in his draft class, why would we want to commit another high pick there when we have so many other needs?

~G

arapaho2
12-20-2010, 06:16 PM
in just the perspective of playing rb moreno was underwhelming the entire 09 season...has shown brief glimpses of a good back in 2010

but thats about it...

he just doesnt seem like the " feed me the goddam ball , all freaking game" type...i mean a 6 yard carry and he imediatly heads to the sideline to rest...a young LT...TD...or any of the top single backs will not do that...they wanna stay in the game...they want the ball...they have to be pulled out

but i want defense to be the single focus in this draft...unless we can find a later rb back..after the pressing defensive needs are looked after

SoCalImport
12-20-2010, 07:31 PM
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/40749356/ns/sports-player_news/

Ribs.....yummy

Seriously.I still hold hope that Knowshon will be able to say healthy for a season. Ooo.. maybe it'll be next season, unless it's not. In which case I'll say this again.
We really need 2-3 solid backs to stand a chance of being a run-first team in todays NFL (or even a successful team). So lets just do that.

claymore
12-20-2010, 07:46 PM
Yeah. If he stays healthy for 5 min.

:idiot:

You are like having crabs.

PAINTERDAVE
12-20-2010, 08:03 PM
Yep, I liked the guy when he was at Georgia, but he is looking more and more like another Mcdaniels BLUNDER...ugh...12th overall pick? OMG what a waste...The guy is constantly injured...Thanks a lot Mcdaniels

Taken instead of Orakpo...

Dzone
12-20-2010, 08:19 PM
Taken instead of Orakpo...
Unbelievable

ChampWJ
12-20-2010, 10:11 PM
Unbelievable

Only if you have no clue what Moreno did in college. Running backs almost never stay healthy and the predictability of McDaniels' play calling did him no favors. Maybe next year Lendale White or Moroney will be able to contribute and help him out.

It's amazing that someone who constantly plays as hard as Moreno can't get any kind of fan support. Everyone wants to knock his stats but I think it's impressive what he's been able to do despite the circus this team has been since he's been here.

Draft hindsight is a waste of time, especially considering the guy who made those picks is already gone. Left behind is a young RB with a lot of potential who's battled some injuries to start his career and the next regime will realize how important he is to the future. Running back is nowhere near the top of our list of needs.

BTW Orakpo hasn't been healthy this year either. Didn't we take another "pass rushing" OLB last year anyway?

silkamilkamonico
12-20-2010, 10:16 PM
Only if you have no clue what Moreno did in college. Running backs almost never stay healthy and the predictability of McDaniels' play calling did him no favors. Maybe next year Lendale White or Moroney will be able to contribute and help him out.




LMAO He was hurt, both years, before McDaniels even called his first play.

Northman
12-20-2010, 10:17 PM
Fact is, we need a bruiser. We had Hillis and screwed the pooch there. Look at Gerhart in Minny right now. Their line is horrible and the dude can still get positive yardage. Knowshon will be here a while, we've already invested first round money into him but he is really just the type of player for 3rd downs and spelling with a second guy. He doesnt have the durability to be a fulltime RB anyway.

Jake Klug
12-20-2010, 10:17 PM
If they could get a 2nd out of him, Id consider trading him. Too bad he cant stay healthy. But even when he is, he's just ok. He's been far from special.

horsepig
12-20-2010, 10:18 PM
Yeah, Orakpo was my choice. Not an undersized, relatively slow RB, sheesh.

jhildebrand
12-20-2010, 10:19 PM
Moreno certainly looks better this year than any point last year. However, I had to ask if he was hurt after yesterday's game or if he was pulled for his "dancing with the stars" rendition. I don't recall a single hit he took that looked like it could cause injury.

Although Moreno has looked better his vision in space is TERRIBLE. I can't stress it any more than that. He has been in space a few times and just goes at the D.

I like Moreno for the most part. I feel like he will be a contributor to this team for a while. I do not feel like I will ever believe or be made to believe that he was worth the #12 pick in that draft!

horsepig
12-20-2010, 10:21 PM
Only if you have no clue what Moreno did in college. Running backs almost never stay healthy and the predictability of McDaniels' play calling did him no favors. Maybe next year Lendale White or Moroney will be able to contribute and help him out.

It's amazing that someone who constantly plays as hard as Moreno can't get any kind of fan support. Everyone wants to knock his stats but I think it's impressive what he's been able to do despite the circus this team has been since he's been here.

Draft hindsight is a waste of time, especially considering the guy who made those picks is already gone. Left behind is a young RB with a lot of potential who's battled some injuries to start his career and the next regime will realize how important he is to the future. Running back is nowhere near the top of our list of needs.

BTW Orakpo hasn't been healthy this year either. Didn't we take another "pass rushing" OLB last year anyway?
Yeah, the wrong one.

horsepig
12-20-2010, 10:23 PM
BTW, I do appreciate Moreno's effort.

jhildebrand
12-20-2010, 10:24 PM
BTW, I do appreciate Moreno's effort.

I loved his dance and silly after the play antics when our team was getting their ass handed to them against Oakland at home.

ChampWJ
12-20-2010, 10:33 PM
LMAO He was hurt, both years, before McDaniels even called his first play.

And he is the only player that's gotten hurt for us in training camp lately right? So it must just be him. :tsk:

My point was getting your dinged up running back hit in the backfield over and over is not a great way to keep him healthy. What is everyone expecting from him playing on a 3-11 team in a pass first offense?

Talented players don't turn into great players on their own. It takes a combination of factors to make them great. Health, supporting cast, favorable play calling, etc. He has had none of those yet still put up some pretty impressive career stats to date.

Northman
12-20-2010, 10:37 PM
And he is the only player that's gotten hurt for us in training camp lately right? So it must just be him. :tsk:

My point was getting your dinged up running back hit in the backfield over and over is not a great way to keep him healthy. What is everyone expecting from him playing on a 3-11 team in a pass first offense?

Talented players don't turn into great players on their own. It takes a combination of factors to make them great. Health, supporting cast, favorable play calling, etc. He has had none of those yet still put up some pretty impressive career stats to date.

He's still not as great as the hype that surrounded him.

ChampWJ
12-20-2010, 10:46 PM
He's still not as great as the hype that surrounded him.

...........so far.

No one has any idea how the rest of his career will play out or what the new coach/system will mean to his development. I'm hoping for the best for the sake of the Broncos and believe he can be a star player. I saw an amazing, dynamic playmaker for two seasons at Georgia and see no reason he can't achieve that type of success in the future.

Jake Klug
12-20-2010, 10:50 PM
...........so far.

No one has any idea how the rest of his career will play out or what the new coach/system will mean to his development. I'm hoping for the best for the sake of the Broncos and believe he can be a star player. I saw an amazing, dynamic playmaker for two seasons at Georgia and see no reason he can't achieve that type of success in the future.

Yeah, ok but lets say Kubiak comes to Denver and Moreno starts being more productive. If that happens, its more Kubiak's offense than it is Moreno and in that case, Moreno hasnt really distinguished himself from a guy who was undrafted in Foster.

Northman
12-20-2010, 10:53 PM
...........so far.

No one has any idea how the rest of his career will play out or what the new coach/system will mean to his development. I'm hoping for the best for the sake of the Broncos and believe he can be a star player. I saw an amazing, dynamic playmaker for two seasons at Georgia and see no reason he can't achieve that type of success in the future.

Going by history the really great players shine from the word go. I think Moreno will be a average and contributing back but not a star.

zbeg
12-20-2010, 11:14 PM
Going by history the really great players shine from the word go. I think Moreno will be a average and contributing back but not a star.

Rookie years:

Emmitt Smith, 937 yards
Walter Payton, 679 yards (14 game schedule, pro-rates to 776 in a 16 game schedule)
Thurman Thomas, 881 yards.

Denver's run blocking has been beyond terrible. No running back except for (maybe) Barry Sanders could be productive when they're being met by a linebacker or a defensive lineman two steps after they get the handoff. It's just not going to happen. When he has had a little bit of room, he makes plays and he makes things happen on his own.

It's not realistic for a running back to put up superstar production when they don't have anything resembling an offensive line. If that's your standard, you will be disappointed with every single running back who could possibly play for the Broncos at any point ever.

ChampWJ
12-20-2010, 11:15 PM
Although Moreno has looked better his vision in space is TERRIBLE. I can't stress it any more than that. He has been in space a few times and just goes at the D.

I just googled "Knowshon scouting" and quickly glanced at the first few and they all raved about his vision, physicality, and agility. I believe his YPC avg compared to the other RB's on the team says volumes about his ability.


I do not feel like I will ever believe or be made to believe that he was worth the #12 pick in that draft!

Again, draft hindsight is a waste of time and energy considering McDaniels is gone. It should not be held against Moreno where he was drafted because he had no bearing on that. Plus it's not like we reached for him, he was projected to go in that range. Just because he hasn't broken out yet doesn't mean all the scouts were wrong about his talent.

On a side note, we have seen greatness at running back in the past and that is preventing people from seeing Moreno in a positive light. There is never going to be another perfect storm that is Terrell Davis in a Mike Shanahan offense. I've accepted that people are going to be overly-critical of every Denver RB despite potential talent and choose to ignore other contributing factors.

ChampWJ
12-20-2010, 11:20 PM
Yeah, ok but lets say Kubiak comes to Denver and Moreno starts being more productive. If that happens, its more Kubiak's offense than it is Moreno and in that case, Moreno hasnt really distinguished himself from a guy who was undrafted in Foster.

That's a never-ending cycle. What player isn't a product of a system, and what coaches' success isn't based on the production of the players in their system?

Since when is a coaching staff putting players in a position to succeed or better utilizing a players strengths held against the player?

Northman
12-20-2010, 11:21 PM
Again, draft hindsight is a waste of time and energy considering McDaniels is gone. It should not be held against Moreno where he was drafted because he had no bearing on that. Plus it's not like we reached for him, he was projected to go in that range. Just because he hasn't broken out yet doesn't mean all the scouts were wrong about his talent.

First, its not a waste of time to talk about him being drafted where he was. ALL players are talked about where they were drafted so Moreno isnt being singled out here. Secondly, scouts have been wrong too and just because a player has excelled at the collegiate level does not mean it will translate to the pros.


On a side note, we have seen greatness at running back in the past and that is preventing people from seeing Moreno in a positive light. There is never going to be another perfect storm that is Terrell Davis in a Mike Shanahan offense. I've accepted that people are going to be overly-critical of every Denver RB despite potential talent and choose to ignore other contributing factors.

Again, totally incorrect. Portis was a very good back for Denver and somewhat in Washington before he broke down physically. As i stated before, great players shine from day one. He may be a contributor to this team but never a star or HOF.

Northman
12-20-2010, 11:25 PM
Rookie years:

Emmitt Smith, 937 yards
Walter Payton, 679 yards (14 game schedule, pro-rates to 776 in a 16 game schedule)
Thurman Thomas, 881 yards.

Denver's run blocking has been beyond terrible. No running back except for (maybe) Barry Sanders could be productive when they're being met by a linebacker or a defensive lineman two steps after they get the handoff. It's just not going to happen. When he has had a little bit of room, he makes plays and he makes things happen on his own.

It's not realistic for a running back to put up superstar production when they don't have anything resembling an offensive line. If that's your standard, you will be disappointed with every single running back who could possibly play for the Broncos at any point ever.


They have an offensive line, its young but not nearly as bad as you try to paint it. Got news for ya, this is Moreno's second year so as too the boys you mentioned,

Emmitt Smith- 1563
Walter Payton- 1390
Thurman Thomas- 1244

Knowshon Moreno- 719

Try harder.

ChampWJ
12-20-2010, 11:34 PM
Again, totally incorrect. As i stated before, great players shine from day one. He may be a contributor to this team but never a star or HOF.

Not all great players shine from day one. Do we need to start posting the numerous examples?

Totally, won't, never. Words like that tell me your mind is apparently made up against Moreno and will cling to any negative despite what future success he MAY achieve in the hopes that your evaluation was right. I've made plenty of statements about how certain players will "never" be successful based on certain biases or whatever that I regret. I've come to realize that is pointless.

I'll keep rooting for Moreno and you can keep rooting against him because of where he was drafted, and most of us here will be enjoying the satisfaction when/if he fulfills his potential.

ChampWJ
12-20-2010, 11:39 PM
They have an offensive line, its young but not nearly as bad as you try to paint it. Got news for ya, this is Moreno's second year so as too the boys you mentioned,

Emmitt Smith- 1563
Walter Payton- 1390
Thurman Thomas- 1244

Knowshon Moreno- 719

Try harder.

Did any of those backs play on a 3-11 pass first team with a last place defense who's coach got fired mid-season? Tell me how that's a fair comparison, and not one slanted against Moreno.

tomjonesrocks
12-20-2010, 11:39 PM
Terrible pick at #12 but at least he is worth a roster spot. I'd trade him away for a variety of things but doubt anyone sees him as even a top 20 RB in the league. He could be workable in a committee with other more talented backs--but for first-round money Moreno is a terrible value.

He does look like he's trying out there though most of the time which at least says *something* about his character. Dude is about as un-explosive in the open field as any RB in the NFL though...

Northman
12-20-2010, 11:40 PM
Not all great players shine from day one. Do we need to start posting the numerous examples?

Totally, won't, never. Words like that tell me your mind is apparently made up against Moreno and will cling to any negative despite what future success he MAY achieve in the hopes that your evaluation was right. I've made plenty of statements about how certain players will "never" be successful based on certain biases or whatever that I regret. I've come to realize that is pointless.

I'll keep rooting for Moreno and you can keep rooting against him because of where he was drafted, and most of us here will be enjoying the satisfaction when/if he fulfills his potential.


Dude, quit being a baby. Seriously. Just because we dont share the same opinion on said player doesnt make this a "root against him" mentality. Dig you head out of ass for once and just accept that not everyone shares your opinion that he is going to be a star.

Ive already stated that i think he will contribute to some degree only that he will not be a star. Ive pointed out that those who do shine and go on to be HOF's shine from day one. You can just see it when they run and try to make plays. It isnt that Moreno doesnt play hard its just that he isnt the playmaker that i initially thought we would be getting.

Northman
12-20-2010, 11:43 PM
Did any of those backs play on a 3-11 pass first team with a last place defense who's coach got fired mid-season? Tell me how that's a fair comparison, and not one slanted against Moreno.

Dallas was 7-9 in Emmitts first year, the Bills were 12-4, The Bears were 4-10 so yes, they had similiar problems.

tomjonesrocks
12-20-2010, 11:45 PM
You can just see it when they run and try to make plays. It isnt that Moreno doesnt play hard its just that he isnt the playmaker that i initially thought we would be getting.

Yep.

RBs taken early are one of the worst draft picks you can make. One of the easiest positions on the roster to least find serviceable players for--and that doesn't even take into consideration their short shelf life.

There's so many examples of late rounders who have blown up and been fine. Plenty of teams have won Super Bowls without an elite RB. To draft one in the first unless you're getting Adrian Peterson or something makes no sense.

Another example of McDaniels' incompetence.

ChampWJ
12-20-2010, 11:58 PM
Dallas was 7-9 in Emmitts first year, the Bills were 12-4, The Bears were 4-10 so yes, they had similiar problems.

The problem with your comparison is you're pretty much saying if Moreno was any good, he would be doing what all three of those guys did in their 2nd seasons. That is ridiculous, and no two situations are the same. The comparison is flawed at a very basic level.

What happens if Moreno fails like you think he will? The Broncos fail, we all lose, except you because you were right?


Dude, quit being a baby. Seriously. Dig you head out of ass for once

I like being a member of this board, so this bait won't be taken.

Northman
12-21-2010, 12:04 AM
The problem with your comparison is you're pretty much saying if Moreno was any good, he would be doing what all three of those guys did in their 2nd seasons. That is ridiculous, and no two situations are the same. The comparison is flawed at a very basic level.

No, what im saying is if Moreno was a true playmaker we would of seen it by now. Alas, it hasnt happened.


What happens if Moreno fails like you think he will? The Broncos fail, we all lose, except you because you were right?

It doesnt matter if i was right. We either use him to spell another back or dump him and try to find a better back. So yes, we all lose but we've been down this road before so Moreno isnt the only "failed" back that we have had. Is he better than some of the past backs? Yes. Is he a playmaker? No.



I like being a member of this board, so this bait won't be taken.

There was no bait given but i agree, i love being a member of this board.

ChampWJ
12-21-2010, 12:22 AM
We either use him to spell another back or dump him and try to find a better back. So yes, we all lose but we've been down this road before so Moreno isnt the only "failed" back that we have had. Is he better than some of the past backs? Yes. Is he a playmaker? No.

Thank you for telling us how Moreno's career will turn out. :rolleyes:

Explain to me anything since he's been drafted that has allowed him to fulfill his potential.

Explain to me how these things haven't been a detriment to his development:

-Pass first offense
-Predictable play calling
-Trailing in most games
-Last place defense
-Revolving door O-line resulting in VERY sub-par blocking
-Expectations of immediate hall of fame performance

If you want to call a player a bust or write him off, he better have been given every opportunity to show HE alone is the real reason for the failure and there aren't contributing factors preventing him from achieving his potential. That absolutely is not the case here.

Dzone
12-21-2010, 12:24 AM
Kijana Carter

Northman
12-21-2010, 12:27 AM
If you want to call a player a bust or write him off, he better have been given every opportunity to show HE alone is the real reason for the failure and there aren't contributing factors preventing him from achieving his potential. That absolutely is not the case here.


I never called him a bust. Only that he isnt a playmaker. Also, every RB that comes into the league faces adversity of some kind but the ones who end up being playmakers make things happen ON THEIR OWN. Sorry, you can whine and cry about some of the problems we have on this team but ive seen just as many problems on other teams and yet the backs that are playmakers still make things happen.

BroncoTech
12-21-2010, 12:49 AM
I have concerns he spends to much time injured. Sheff was a good player but he also missed too many games and became trade bait. I like the effort Moreno shows but have concerns that he's never gotten behind the safeties and taken the rock to the house. Most of his runs are 17-20 and he never breaks away for a long one.

ChampWJ
12-21-2010, 12:50 AM
I never called him a bust. Only that he isnt a playmaker. Also, every RB that comes into the league faces adversity of some kind but the ones who end up being playmakers make things happen ON THEIR OWN. Sorry, you can whine and cry about some of the problems we have on this team but ive seen just as many problems on other teams and yet the backs that are playmakers still make things happen.

This is a waste of time. I've stated countless FACTS why Moreno hasn't been able to show what he can do. You have chosen to ignore the facts because of the flawed opinion that great players are great immediately. This is preventing you from seeing how Moreno can be a positive asset to a team.

He can do a lot of things that can help a team win, but I guess that's not good enough. You've given no substantive evidence to counter my claims, only the opinion that he is not a "playmaker" and personal attacks. Is there a "playmaker" measurement I'm missing?

Northman
12-21-2010, 12:57 AM
This is a waste of time. I've stated countless FACTS why Moreno hasn't been able to show what he can do. You have chosen to ignore the facts because of the flawed opinion that great players are great immediately. This is preventing you from seeing how Moreno can be a positive asset to a team.

And ive countered that with the FACT that other RB's face similiar issues only that the ones who are truly playmakers can make a difference through adversity. It doesnt mean their teams are WINNERS, only that those players have made an impact early and shown they can make plays on their own. If you cant see that i cant help you mate.


He can do a lot of things that can help a team win, but I guess that's not good enough. You've given no substantive evidence to counter my claims, only the opinion that he is not a "playmaker" and personal attacks. Is there a "playmaker" measurement I'm missing?

What personal attacks are you referring too?

Playmakers: See first statement.

Dzone
12-21-2010, 12:57 AM
Am sure everyone on this board would love to see Moreno live up to his draft position. Thus far he doesnt look any better than Lance Ball.

sneakers
12-21-2010, 01:08 AM
Ricky Watters was pretty dang good. 10,000 career rushing yards.

ChampWJ
12-21-2010, 01:27 AM
And ive countered that with the FACT that other RB's face similiar issues only that the ones who are truly playmakers can make a difference through adversity. It doesnt mean their teams are WINNERS, only that those players have made an impact early and shown they can make plays on their own. If you cant see that i cant help you mate.



What personal attacks are you referring too?

Playmakers: See first statement.

Who you are referring to being "playmakers" in "similar" circumstances?

When you're done with that no doubt lengthy list I'd like to know how Knowshon isn't a "playmaker" in your opinion and it better not have anything to do with his lack of breaking off long runs because that was never a part of his game coming in.

There have been several games where Knowshon looks like he is the only one trying or scored the teams' only points but I guess that's not making a difference through adversity. His stats (don't forget receiving) do not support your opinion and that's even if you ignore other factors which might be skewing those stats negatively.

Northman
12-21-2010, 07:55 AM
When you're done with that no doubt lengthy list I'd like to know how Knowshon isn't a "playmaker" in your opinion and it better not have anything to do with his lack of breaking off long runs because that was never a part of his game coming in.




:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Discussion closed. Nuff said.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-21-2010, 08:07 AM
For all of you guys out there advocating replacing Knowshon and blowing even more draft picks on RBs, I just wanted to remind everyone that we still have Lendale White on the roster who will be back next year to handle all of the "power back" duties. He was a our best RB in the preseason and looked almost unstoppable on short yardage. Shit, we have a short yardage back named Tim Tebow who can pick up those 3rd or 4th and ones and punch it in on the goal line.

Can't we all just stop eyeballing the sports cars and buy the sensible pickup truck for once? We need D-line more than ever and we're still talking about blowing picks on another RB?

I'd be willing to bet that there will be a couple FAs that will come cheap this offseason, too. With Moreno, Buck, Maroney, White, and Ball the last thing we need is to spend another draft pick on a RB... We just need to fix our current scheme so we can RUN THE BALL WITH THE GUYS WE HAVE!

Northman
12-21-2010, 08:13 AM
Im not advocating drafting a RB. At least not in the early rounds. But our current stable sucks and ALL of them have a history of not staying healthy now. Thats got to change if we are going to have success down the road. And yes, we need a back who can break long runs.

Tned
12-21-2010, 08:17 AM
Im not advocating drafting a RB. At least not in the early rounds. But our current stable sucks and ALL of them have a history of not staying healthy now. Thats got to change if we are going to have success down the road. And yes, we need a back who can break long runs.

If we do a better job of opening up holes, we are more likely to get big runs from backs. Moreno's probably not an 80 yard, take it to the house guy, but if we were opening better holes, we might see more 15-30 yard runs.

Northman
12-21-2010, 08:22 AM
If we do a better job of opening up holes, we are more likely to get big runs from backs. Moreno's probably not an 80 yard, take it to the house guy, but if we were opening better holes, we might see more 15-30 yard runs.

Honestly, this shit gets old. Yes, the line does need some work but have you guys even watched these runners? Seriously? They have no vision whatsoever. They are totally indecisive in the backfield and continue to run into the backs of the Olineman instead of using the lanes when they are there. The line is only small part of the problem here.

Dirk
12-21-2010, 08:23 AM
If we do a better job of opening up holes, we are more likely to get big runs from backs. Moreno's probably not an 80 yard, take it to the house guy, but if we were opening better holes, we might see more 15-30 yard runs.

I totally agree. It all starts with the Oline. When the opposing team's defense is in the backfield when the ball is handed to the RB...it's kind of hard to be a star. Only one back has ever been good at that situation. Barry Sanders.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-21-2010, 08:28 AM
If we do a better job of opening up holes, we are more likely to get big runs from backs. Moreno's probably not an 80 yard, take it to the house guy, but if we were opening better holes, we might see more 15-30 yard runs.

I agree. I have a lot of hope that Moreno is our guy for the long hall, and as soon as we get some coaches in here that can utilize him properly, he'll blossom. Moreno is not a 3 yards and a cloud of dust runner but he's been expected to be since he was drafted. In the current scheme, NOBODY would be any more effective except maybe Hillis and White who ARE that type of runner. LeShoure? Seriously? He's the same type of back Knowshon is and would struggle just as much here. He also wouldn't be any more healthy getting pounded running the same 3 run plays every week here in Denver.

it's not just about players, especially in the run game... it's about scheme, and ours is the worst in the league right now.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-21-2010, 08:33 AM
Honestly, this shit gets old. Yes, the line does need some work but have you guys even watched these runners? Seriously? They have no vision whatsoever. They are totally indecisive in the backfield and continue to run into the backs of the Olineman instead of using the lanes when they are there. The line is only small part of the problem here.

That's the scheme, bro. You are criticizing the backs as if they have a choice to pick a hole... THEY DON'T. In this Man/Power scheme the back runs to his set hole EVERY TIME, NO MATTER WHAT. That is how they are coached and that is what is expected. No reads, no improv. In a zone scheme, the back gets to read the blocks, pick a gap, make one cut and run downhill.

Dude there's just no way you'll EVER convince me that 2 RBs (Buck and Maroney) who averaged over 4 YPC on other teams just magically suck here and like Knowshon are expected to create something out of nothing and yet somehow it's their fault... It's the line and the scheme. We don't run well as a team because we have nobody who knows how to coach O-line or RBs on this roster and a bad scheme that isn't a fit for our current players.

Northman
12-21-2010, 08:36 AM
That's the scheme, bro. You are criticizing the backs as if they have a choice to pick a hole... THEY DON'T. In this Man/Power scheme the back runs to his set hole EVERY TIME, NO MATTER WHAT. That is how they are coached and that is what is expected. No reads, no improv. In a zone scheme, the back gets to read the blocks, pick a gap, make one cut and run downhill.

Dude there's just no way you'll EVER convince me that 2 RBs (Buck and Maroney) who averaged over 4 YPC on other teams just magically suck here and like Knowshon are expected to create something out of nothing and yet somehow it's their fault... It's the line and the scheme. We don't run well as a team because we have nobody who knows how to coach O-line or RBs on this roster and a bad scheme that isn't a fit for our current players.

They had the same problems last year in a different and proven scheme. It wasnt just this year mate. Like you, you will never convince me that Maroney and Buck are better than they are. They were dumped for a reason and now watch as Green in NE and McCoy both flourish at their previous destinations.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-21-2010, 08:42 AM
They had the same problems last year in a different and proven scheme. It wasnt just this year mate. Like you, you will never convince me that Maroney and Buck are better than they are. They were dumped for a reason and now watch as Green in NE and McCoy both flourish at their previous destinations.

No, last year we had Rick Dennison and Bobby Turner...

Our running game was much more effective last year except for McDaniels refusal to play the guy who was boning his wife! Buck was hurt, Moreno hit the rookie wall and McDaniels refused to play Hillis. That's why our running game struggled late. It actually wasn't bad early in the season.

Northman
12-21-2010, 08:45 AM
No, last year we had Rick Dennison and Bobby Turner...

How quickly we forget!

Turner was better than Studs by miles. The scheme and line is only a small part of the problem here. Our backs are very average and unable to make plays and in this league you need at least one back who can be a game breaker.

SOCALORADO.
12-21-2010, 08:58 AM
No, last year we had Rick Dennison and Bobby Turner...

Our running game was much more effective last year except for McDaniels refusal to play the guy who was boning his wife! Buck was hurt, Moreno hit the rookie wall and McDaniels refused to play Hillis. That's why our running game struggled late. It actually wasn't bad early in the season.

Great. So now DEN has a RB who has been injured for 95% of his NFL career, is slow, cant break tackles, cant block to save his own life, and cant stay on the field, and when he does finally have a good play, he celebrates like its 1999. Thats great. And the juggernaut was traded to CLE for a bag of chips and a ham sandwich. Thats great.
So now DEN has White, who is on his 3rd pizza today, while nursing one of the most brutal, possibly career ending injuries a runner can get, Ball who wouldnt be on any other team in the NFL right now, and Buck who is walking on 2 knees that have had more reconstruction than Cher. Great.
Top it off, DEN has some scheme issues with the O-line, which isnt helping.
But i dont think this is just an O-line issue. Once, Knowshow has gotten to the 2nd level, he has no vision, no speed, and no ability to break just one tackle. Basically, hes done nothing. Then he runs off the field after 1 carry, with an injury. Hes nothing more than a 3rd down complimentary RB. He cant carry the load and its obvious.

Northman
12-21-2010, 09:04 AM
So now DEN has White, who is on his 3rd pizza today, while nursing one of the most brutal, possibly career ending injuries a runner can get, Ball who wouldnt be on any other team in the NFL right now, and Buck who is walking on 2 knees that have had more reconstruction than Cher. Great.



That shit was funny but so true.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-21-2010, 09:07 AM
Great. So now DEN has a RB who has been injured for 95% of his NFL career, is slow, cant break tackles, cant block to save his own life, and cant stay on the field, and when he does finally have a good play, he celebrates like its 1999. Thats great. And the juggernaut was traded to CLE for a bag of chips and a ham sandwich. Thats great.
So now DEN has White, who is on his 3rd pizza today, while nursing one of the most brutal, possibly career ending injuries a runner can get, Ball who wouldnt be on any other team in the NFL right now, and Buck who is walking on 2 knees that have had more reconstruction than Cher. Great.
Top it off, DEN has some scheme issues with the O-line, which isnt helping.
But i dont think this is just an O-line issue. Once, Knowshow has gotten to the 2nd level, he has no vision, no speed, and no ability to break just one tackle. Basically, hes done nothing. Then he runs off the field after 1 carry, with an injury. Hes nothing more than a 3rd down complimentary RB. He cant carry the load and its obvious.

So Leshoure would be doing so much better right now... Are you sure? I don't think Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson could be successful in Denver and Leshoure is nowhere near the talent level of those guys.

Yeah, we need to just throw more picks at running backs that WON'T SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEM.

SOCALORADO.
12-21-2010, 09:22 AM
So Leshoure would be doing so much better right now... Are you sure? I don't think Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson could be successful in Denver and Leshoure is nowhere near the talent level of those guys.

Yeah, we need to just throw more picks at running backs that WON'T SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEM.

Go ahead and solve the real problem as well. DEN needs one, maybe 2 O-linemen. (The 2nd as depth) And another offseason for the rookies this year to gel. And get even another RB! Get Vai Tau in the late rounds, but DEN needs a game changer, that can carry the rock and take time off the clock, take the pressure off of Tebow, and allow the defense time to recover. Something Knowshow cant do, no matter who he played for.
And explain to me how every analyst says this kid is a full time, game changing, starting RB, yet you say hes no where NEAR the level of Peterson or Johnson. I'd say hes pretty close, and hes projected to go in the 2nd! I am not saying draft endless offensive players high all draft, but if you can get a top tier, full time RB that can play at the NFL level right away, has the skill set, and the measurables, then get him.
Read his positive/negatives.

Scouting Report: Mikel Leshoure, RB, Illinois
by Clint Clearwater
NFL Draft Analyst
November 22, 2010
Ht: 6-0 Wt: 230 40: 4.53

Strengths:
I love his size. Plays with great power. Displays great agility and acceleration. Plays with a great burst for a back his size. Has good decision-making; when he sees the hole there is little hesitation and he shows off impressive explosiveness to get through the line. Surprisingly elusive for a bigger back. He is able to make quick cuts and start and stop immediately. Does not shy away from contact. Soft hands, can catch the football. Does a great job of pass blocking. Has good ball security. Reports of his improved his work ethic and maturity have really been evident this season. He is a playmaker.

Weaknesses:
He needs to be more consistent in keeping his feet moving when engaged. Vision is another thing that often stands out a little bit when I watch Mikel; it isn't his biggest weakness but this is something that I think could be improved. He does a good job of reading his blockers but he needs to look at the whole field when he is running. Sometimes it looks like he just reads the blockers right in front of him rather than see the whole field. He also often tries too hard for the home run play, rather than hit the hole for a 5 yard gain. Again, this is not the biggest concern for me, but he could improve in this area to become more consistent. He does not have elite speed for a running back (even though for his size it's great). He is a little inconsistent at running low; he needs to get lower when getting through the line.

Summary:
Mikel Leshoure is an exciting player to watch. He is big, powerful, strong, and yet surprisingly elusive, fast and explosive. Add in his natural instincts and you've got a special running back. Leshoure is living up to the hype this season; he went over 1000 yards, has 11 TDs and 14 receptions. He also did this behind an average offensive line and a young QB. Mikel Leshoure is quickly becoming one of my favorite players in the country and he has all the potential in the world. He has improved in key areas from last season and I believe that his best football is ahead of him. It will be exciting to see if he declares for the draft this year.

Draft Projection:
1st round – Early 2nd round
http://www.thefootballexpert.com/sco...-illinois.html

Mikel Leshoure, RB, Illinois
Height: 6-1. Weight: 228.
Projected 40 Time: 4.51.
Projected Round (2011): 1-2.
10/1/10: (Note: name pronounced muh-KEL luh-SHORE) Ladies and gentlement, this is the breakout running back for the 2011 NFL Draft class. Leshoure is 6-1, 230 with amazing power and speed. He obliterated Missouri for 20 carries and 112 yards. He is averaging 6.9 yards per carry and has 398 rushing yards, three touchdowns total as well as ranking No. 6 in the nation in rushing yards per game. Leshoure has been praised this offseason for his improved work ethic, diet and maturity. The sky is the limit for this talented back from Champaign, Ill.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2011RB.php

Positives: Great size, very strong build... Does a great job holding the football close to his body... Very quick feet, reaches his top speed almost immediately which makes him a big play threat... Gets his first 15-20 yards in a hurry, tough to contain... Runs through tackles, does a great job getting through trash and running between the tackles... Keeps his legs moving at all times, very hard to slow down... Runs with low pad level, delivers hits rather than absorb them... Great vision, waits for his blockers... Soft hands, is growing to be a capable receiver out of the backfield... Put up big numbers against tough Big 10 defenses, has only one game this year with less than 75 rushing yards... Illinois has put some good running backs into the NFL recently (Pierre Thomas, Rashard Mendenhall)... One of the few backs in this class that has the potential to be a true workhorse... This is his first season as a starter so he will come to the NFL without much tread on his tires... A complete running back, isn't flashy, but is the type of player who can carry the ball a ton, and contribute on passing downs.

Negatives: Top-end speed is just average... Really has only had one great season thus far... Often tries to break the big play rather than settle for a short gain, is prone to some negative yardage plays... Broke his jaw in 2008 after an altercation with a teammate at Illinois... Conditioning was a concern in the past... Takes most of his handoffs out of the shotgun in Illinois spread option offense.
http://www.sidelinescouting.com/rankings/rb.shtml

HORSEPOWER 56
12-21-2010, 09:41 AM
And pretty much all of those things were said about Knowshon and EVERY OTHER RB THAT HAS COME OUT IN THE PAST 50 YEARS!!!!!!

Don't post BS scouting reports that just show some scouts opinion based on this guys play in an underachieving big ten this year. Yeah, every college RB worth a start can "run through arm tackles". Ya know that Knowshon averaged 25 carries a game and was a workhorse for GA?

Dude, this scouting report is the same recycled shit in every top 25 RB prospect's scouting report. I challenge you to find some that DON'T READ THAT WAY...

I've seen one or two games with Leshoure playing and he isn't any better than Knowshon was at GA, or than Lendale was at USC, or that Maroney was at Minnesota.

Sweet, you've found your "guy I really want us to draft this year". Congrats, now you can campaign to all of us fans about how awesome he is until the draft when we don't take him and continue a your smear campaign against current Broncos RBs or against anyone else not named Leshoure that anyone else brings up...

Knock yourself out, just don't be too upset when the Broncos DON'T draft him... :coffee:

SOCALORADO.
12-21-2010, 09:51 AM
And pretty much all of those things were said about Knowshon and EVERY OTHER RB THAT HAS COME OUT IN THE PAST 50 YEARS!!!!!!

Don't post BS scouting reports that just show some scouts opinion based on this guys play in an underachieving big ten this year. Yeah, every college RB worth a start can "run through arm tackles". Ya know that Knowshon averaged 25 carries a game and was a workhorse for GA?

Dude, this scouting report is the same recycled shit in every top 25 RB prospect's scouting report. I challenge you to find some that DON'T READ THAT WAY...

I've seen one or two games with Leshoure playing and he isn't any better than Knowshon was at GA, or than Lendale was at USC, or that Maroney was at Minnesota.

Sweet, you've found your "guy I really want us to draft this year". Congrats, now you can campaign to all of us fans about how awesome he is until the draft when we don't take him and continue a your smear campaign against current Broncos RBs or against anyone else not named Leshoure that anyone else brings up...

Knock yourself out, just don't be too upset when the Broncos DON'T draft him... :coffee:

Wow. Someone must have pissed in your Cheerios this morning.
Ah, i put up many analysts, and no, not all of them say the same for every RB, but if your that entangled in knowshows dingleberries to see anything else, thats cool, man. When he wipes, grab ahold of the toilet paper, and maybe you can wrench yourself away from his cheeks. I just hope that when you do, you dont "injure" yourself like knowshow always seems to do.

Juriga72
12-21-2010, 10:02 AM
So Leshoure would be doing so much better right now... Are you sure? I don't think Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson could be successful in Denver and Leshoure is nowhere near the talent level of those guys.

Yeah, we need to just throw more picks at running backs that WON'T SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEM.

Getting rid of Casey was HUGE. Of course all he is doing right now is... leading the #1 rushing attack in the NFL.

THATS the biggest reason we cannot run very well right now IMHO

arapaho2
12-21-2010, 11:15 AM
Did any of those backs play on a 3-11 pass first team with a last place defense who's coach got fired mid-season? Tell me how that's a fair comparison, and not one slanted against Moreno.


chances are...if moreno had around 1200 yards....could be counted on to get the 1st down in short yardage...could break a couple for long gains...stay in a game longer than 2 plays before being winded...wasnt a liability in pass protection...wasnt injured constantly


the defense wouldnt be so bad, because the offense could sustain drives and keep them off the field ....and the coach probably not fired

PAINTERDAVE
12-21-2010, 11:22 AM
chances are...if moreno had around 1200 yards....could be counted on to get the 1st down in short yardage...could break a couple for long gains...stay in a game longer than 2 plays before being winded...wasnt a liability in pass protection...wasnt injured constantly


the defense wouldnt be so bad, because the offense could sustain drives and keep them off the field ....and the coach probably not fired

Orakpo...


Imagine if McD had gone Defense with that #1...
and taken ANY other RB in the 3rd 4th or 5th round?

It certainly points to how important the upcoming draft is...

and also...

how about we dont trade away our decent young players once we draft 'em and train 'em?

(Hillis, Smith)

arapaho2
12-21-2010, 12:56 PM
Orakpo...


Imagine if McD had gone Defense with that #1...
and taken ANY other RB in the 3rd 4th or 5th round?

It certainly points to how important the upcoming draft is...

and also...

how about we dont trade away our decent young players once we draft 'em and train 'em?

(Hillis, Smith)

preaching to the choir brutha...i was all for orakpo ...that draft was deep in formidable defensive players...and mcd wasted the picks