The TD Pass was out, and the run was luck...

[TimBuff10]

Whoever the GM is, and whoever the coach is, Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. Maybe over the next few weeks he can up a bit and we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. Will be nice to see if they take the handcuffs off of him next week though and if his luck keeps going the way it did today.

[Northman]

I seriously doubt he will be traded. You might want to get used to seeing him on Sundays with the Broncos.

[Italianmobstr7]

Terrible post. Not true at all. Tebow clearly has the makings to be our franchise qb. The run wasn't luck and the TD pass was clearly in bounds.

[BroncoWave]

Hey, Mel Kiper created an account. Welcome Mel!

[camdisco24]

Denial.... I smell it.

[TimBuff10]

Terrible post. Not true at all. Tebow clearly has the makings to be our franchise qb. The run wasn't luck and the TD pass was clearly in bounds.

Lloyd was sitting on his ass out of bounds by the time his hand got around to gripping the ball... Till then it was bouncing around on his chest the whole time. You could tell by his reaction after the play that he knew he didnt have control till he was looking up at the cheerleader's crotch.

As for the run, it was a busted play... Tebow said it was supposed to be a handoff.

Hey they got credit for both though and if Tebow is able to bring that type of luck to ever game, then I have no doubts he will win lots of games. Question is, when that luck runs out what are we left with?

[Northman]

Lloyd was sitting on his ass out of bounds by the time his hand got around to gripping the ball... Till then it was bouncing around on his chest the whole time. You could tell by his reaction after the play that he knew he didnt have control till he was looking up at the cheerleader's crotch.

As for the run, it was a busted play... Tebow said it was supposed to be a handoff.

Hey they got credit for both though and if Tebow is able to bring that type of luck to ever game, then I have no doubts he will win lots of games. Question is, when that luck runs out what are we left with?

At the same time when a QB is considered a HOF after one game let me know.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Whoever the GM is, and whoever the coach is, Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. Maybe over the next few weeks he can up a bit and we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. Will be nice to see if they take the handcuffs off of him next week though and if his luck keeps going the way it did today.

Throughout Tebow's whole career, people have been saying shit like this... oh his passes and runs are luck. The way he breaks tackles and the way he slings the ball into tight windows is just luck! Winning those National Championships and that Heisman was luck!

Maybe if those same folks would stop trying to pin everything this guy does well on "luck" and just accept that he's a damned fine, Skilled football player, then they could just sit back and enjoy watching him play football. Instead, it will be guys like this that will wish, in 20 years, they had actually just enjoyed watching him play good football instead of being bitter and attributing all of his success to "luck".

Either Tim Tebow is the "Luckiest" man alive... and I remind you all that he's still a virgin so that's not possible...

or...

He's just a really good football player.

[camdisco24]

The kid is a winner.
Luck didn't get him to where he's at now.
Hopefully you'll be a believer after a few games.
I understand one good game isnt enough to jump on the bandwagon, but if he does continue to shine... will you jump on board????

[topscribe]

Whoever the GM is, and whoever the coach is, Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. Maybe over the next few weeks he can up a bit and we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. Will be nice to see if they take the handcuffs off of him next week though and if his luck keeps going the way it did today.

Are you serious? That was the best run I have ever seen from a Broncos
QB, and that includes the Great One (except for the Helicopter Spin).

And that pass was one of the prettiest deep passes I have seen all
season, and I have seen some very pretty passes from Kyle.

Wow . . . I've got to ask again: Are you serious?

-----

[PAINTERDAVE]

For the guys debut...

it was tremendous.

It will only get better with time and experience.

So Buff wants to come on here and gripe and complain?

Who cares. Just an attention whore.

[Sparky The Sun Devil]

1:31 am? I know why this guy is hatin on tebow

he was bangin his girl and she shouted "YEA TIMMY!!!! TEBOWN ME!!!!"

[topscribe]

For the guys debut...

it was tremendous.

It will only get better with time and experience.

So Buff wants to come on here and gripe and complain?

Who cares. Just an attention whore.

That wasn't Buff, Painter. I know your intentions were good, but, as you
know, we already have a Buff, and he would not have posted such nonsense.
I don't think, anyway . . .

-----

[cuzz4169]

so what they missed the hand off....Orton would've just fell on the ground. When you have a play maker at QB you can get away with some mistakes. Lloyd made a hell of a catch as usual and the pass was just as pretty....I guess he lost some luck when he fired a pass to lance ball and he dropped it for a TD.

One thing I noticed a lot of the defensive players where standing watching Tebow play. trust me this team will be his very very soon and that's a great thing for the Broncos Franchise.

[GEM]

Hey, Mel Kiper created an account. Welcome Mel!

I told my dad during the game that Kiper was probably throwing shit at his tv. :lol:

[topscribe]

so what they missed the hand off....Orton would've just fell on the ground. When you have a play maker at QB you can get away with some mistakes. Lloyd made a hell of a catch as usual and the pass was just as pretty....I guess he lost some luck when he fired a pass to lance ball and he dropped it for a TD.

One thing I noticed a lot of the defensive players where standing watching Tebow play. trust me this team will be his very very soon and that's a great thing for the Broncos Franchise.

No, Orton would not have just fallen to the ground. I guess you never noticed,
but at one time in the season, Orton was the Broncos' leading rusher. Now,
I understand that wasn't saying much, but it did indicate that Orton did run.
He ran several times for first downs. He did not just fall.

Another of the many myths surrounding Orton . . .

-----

[PAINTERDAVE]

Whoever the GM is, and whoever the coach is, Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. Maybe over the next few weeks he can up a bit and we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. Will be nice to see if they take the handcuffs off of him next week though and if his luck keeps going the way it did today.

I meant this guy.

TimBuff10

Sory real Buff.

[cuzz4169]

No, Orton would not have just fallen to the ground. I guess you never noticed,
but at one time in the season, Orton was the Broncos' leading rusher. Now,
I understand that wasn't saying much, but it did indicate that Orton did run.
He ran several times for first downs. He did not just fall.

Another of the many myths surrounding Orton . . .

-----

Yeah 22 attempts for a 98 yards solid....9 first down runs..those 98yards put him 17th in the league..and his 22 attempts have him 24th in the league for a QB...so no Orton doesn't run in my eyes. Myth stays true to me.

[Northman]

Something to keep in mind,

In 1983 Elway got some significant time during his first year behind Deberg until the Raider game which was his first actual start. This was his stats from that game.

11/31 190 yds 1 Int
3 carries for 32 yds 1 TD

Tebow in his debut with a lot less time thoughout his first year.

8/16 138 1 TD
8 carries 78 yds 1 TD

Is Tebow Elway? No. But with the lack of reps that he got throughout the year and how he played in his first start that isnt bad at all.

[topscribe]

Yeah 22 attempts for a 98 yards solid....9 first down runs..those 98yards put him 17th in the league..and his 22 attempts have him 24th in the league for a QB...so no Orton doesn't run in my eyes. Myth stays true to me.

That's fine. But all the stats you just threw out shows that Kyle would not
just fall down. That is the myth . . .

-----

[GEM]

Can we NOT turn ANOTHER ******* thread into ANOTHER ******* Orton slugfest? FFS this shit is getting old.

[BroncoWave]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:EYTOjzmMGdb-UM:http://rudezone.net/images/notThisShitAgain.gif&t=1

[cuzz4169]

That's fine. But all the stats you just threw out shows that Kyle would not
just fall down. That is the myth . . .

-----

Your right lol he would've shit his pants.

[GEM]

The topic of the thread, while it is ridiculous, is that the run was luck and the pass was out of bounds.

The topic isn't Orton...he didn't start today.

[topscribe]

Something to keep in mind,

In 1983 Elway got some significant time during his first year behind Deberg until the Raider game which was his first actual start. This was his stats from that game.

11/31 190 yds 1 Int
3 carries for 32 yds 1 TD

Tebow in his debut with a lot less time thoughout his first year.

8/16 138 1 TD
8 carries 78 yds 1 TD

Is Tebow Elway? No. But with the lack of reps that he got throughout the year and how he played in his first start that isnt bad at all.

I'm sure you will agree that Tim has a long, long way to go before he can
be compared to Elway. But Elway played a bit differently: He would scramble
around behind the LOS looking to throw, whereas Tebow seems to look to
take off . . . maybe a bit too much, and maybe he will need to curtail that
a bit in the future?

-----

[Northman]

I'm sure you will agree that Tim has a long, long way to go before he can
be compared to Elway. But Elway played a bit differently: He would scramble
around behind the LOS looking to throw, whereas Tebow seems to look to
take off . . . maybe a bit too much, and maybe he will need to curtail that
a bit in the future?

-----

Most likely. He is a bit of a run first QB but so was Vick and they have this year been able to make him change that philosphy. Hopefully, it wont take Tebow near as long to make that adjustment.

[topscribe]

Can we NOT turn ANOTHER ******* thread into ANOTHER ******* Orton slugfest? FFS this shit is getting old.

I believe you are exaggerating mightily here. A little side discussion is not a
slugfest. If a comment is made to which I feel I need to respond, I will respond.

-----

[topscribe]

Most likely. He is a bit of a run first QB but so was Vick and they have this year been able to make him change that philosphy. Hopefully, it wont take Tebow near as long to make that adjustment.

That probably will come with experience.

As Studesville himself said, they want him to play quarterback . . .

-----

[GEM]

I believe you are exaggerating mightily here. A little side discussion is not a
slugfest. If a comment is made to which I feel I need to respond, I will respond.

-----

You would see it as an exaggeration...since you are the one that is always involved in the Orton slugfests.

[topscribe]

You would see it as an exaggeration...since you are the one that is always involved in the Orton slugfests.

I will probably continue to be involved in discussion about Orton. But your
term "slugfest" is indeed an exaggeration. We had a little side discussion, and
now it is over. No need to hyperventilate about it.

And now YOU are making me the topic . . .

-----

[Tned]

I'm sure you will agree that Tim has a long, long way to go before he can
be compared to Elway. But Elway played a bit differently: He would scramble
around behind the LOS looking to throw, whereas Tebow seems to look to
take off . . . maybe a bit too much, and maybe he will need to curtail that
a bit in the future?

-----

Even as big as he is, he will spend a lot of time sidelined if he runs too much, like when he hurt his ribs in pre-season.

He needs to learn to use his speed and strength to avoid sacks, and then move east/west to buy time to make a play with his arm first, and use the north/south running as a last option, or when there is too much green between him and the first down marker to pass up.

[GEM]

I will probably continue to be involved in discussion about Orton. But your
term "slugfest" is indeed an exaggeration. We had a little side discussion, and
now it is over. No need to hyperventilate about it.

And now YOU are making me the topic . . .

-----

And had I not stepped in and said something, you would have kept going with cuzz.

And btw...stop with the you are making me the topic. It's really getting old. The woe is me is entirely overblown on your part.

[topscribe]

Even as big as he is, he will spend a lot of time sidelined if he runs too much, like when he hurt his ribs in pre-season.

He needs to learn to use his speed and strength to avoid sacks, and then move east/west to buy time to make a play with his arm first, and use the north/south running as a last option, or when there is too much green between him and the first down marker to pass up.

Well, he needs to learn that, in the pros, he doesn't have so much size and
speed. He had that in college, but in the pros, half the defense can outrun
him, and the linebackers are all as big or (most are) bigger than him.

He has shown he can pass. Now, he needs to learn that is what he should
look for first . . .

-----

[BroncoWave]

Even as big as he is, he will spend a lot of time sidelined if he runs too much, like when he hurt his ribs in pre-season.

I just don't buy this. He is as big as many pro running backs. It's not like he's small and thin like Michael Vick. Injuries were never a concern in the SEC and I don't see them being a concern in the NFL.

I do find it ironic though (and I'm not directing this at you) that the people who like to hate on Tebow suggest that he should be a FB or TE in the NFL, but then also suggest that his running style won't work and will get him killed.

Am I the only one who sees the broken logic there?

[topscribe]

And had I not stepped in and said something, you would have kept going with cuzz.

And btw...stop with the you are making me the topic. It's really getting old.

No, had you not stepped in the discussion would be over. Go back and review.
It ended on its own. With or without you. This one, however, seems to still
be going. So I will end it here, too.

-----

[Tned]

I just don't buy this. He is as big as many pro running backs. It's not like he's small and thin like Michael Vick. Injuries were never a concern in the SEC and I don't see them being a concern in the NFL.

I do find it ironic though (and I'm not directing this at you) that the people who like to hate on Tebow suggest that he should be a FB or TE in the NFL, but then also suggest that his running style won't work and will get him killed.

Am I the only one who sees the broken logic there?

I agree, that logics faulty.

As to my point, this is why I said that. I might be over thinking, but here goes.

it's true that he's as big as many RB's, but how often to we see RB's playing nicked up, leaving games, etc. Far more often then you typically see out of QBs. A QB needs to take every offensive snap, where RBs can be rotated.

So, that's one aspect of it. The other is what you practice. An RB is practicing running, getting hit, not running to upright and getting hammered (like DT returns kicks looking like he's got a "hit me" sign on his chest). They often even have different equipment, from helmet, faceguard, pads, etc. All designed to equip and train them to run and be hit.

A QB often has different equipment, providing for more mobility and visibility. Doesn't take nearly as many, if any, practice reps on getting hit, running 'properly', etc.

Also, in terms of college vs. the pros, even though the SEC is about as good as it gets, it's still not NFL defenses. The NFL is the very best college players, so they are bigger, faster and better trained to inflict punishment.

Anyway, those are my reasons for feeling that he shouldn't be a run first QB, but instead use his feet for occasional designed runs, and then to keep plays alive, or make something out of busted plays.

[BroncoWave]

I don't think he should be run-first either. No QB should. But I don't think him running it 5-10 times a game will be too detrimental to his health.

[topscribe]

I agree, that logics faulty.

As to my point, this is why I said that. I might be over thinking, but here goes.

it's true that he's as big as many RB's, but how often to we see RB's playing nicked up, leaving games, etc. Far more often then you typically see out of QBs. A QB needs to take every offensive snap, where RBs can be rotated.

So, that's one aspect of it. The other is what you practice. An RB is practicing running, getting hit, not running to upright and getting hammered (like DT returns kicks looking like he's got a "hit me" sign on his chest). They often even have different equipment, from helmet, faceguard, pads, etc. All designed to equip and train them to run and be hit.

A QB often has different equipment, providing for more mobility and visibility. Doesn't take nearly as many, if any, practice reps on getting hit, running 'properly', etc.

Also, in terms of college vs. the pros, even though the SEC is about as good as it gets, it's still not NFL defenses. The NFL is the very best college players, so they are bigger, faster and better trained to inflict punishment.

Anyway, those are my reasons for feeling that he shouldn't be a run first QB, but instead use his feet for occasional designed runs, and then to keep plays alive, or make something out of busted plays.

Even being "equipped" for it, the average career of a RB is - what? - four
or five years, IIRC. A QB certainly wants to play for more than four or five
years, especially in that the average QB doesn't enter his prime until his
early 30s . . .

-----

[Tned]

I don't think he should be run-first either. No QB should. But I don't think him running it 5-10 times a game will be too detrimental to his health.

It only takes one hit, like the TD in the pre-season game, but that said, I agree with you. IMO, the value his legs bring to the field means that they have to be used some. Personally, i would prefer to see the gameplan getting him outside, or bootleg/roll-out plays, or other plays wide, rather than running up the middle. A draw here or there isn't bad, but if that's his bread and butter run, then the defense will T off on him.

[honz]

Tebow just needs to be smart about when to lower his shoulder and when to run out of bounds or slide...injuries should be no more of a problem than for Big Ben or McNabb...a couple of other "slower", yet mobile QB's.

[cuzz4169]

I like Eddie Royal but it sure would be nice to have Desean Jackson on this team..

[topscribe]

Tebow just needs to be smart about when to lower his shoulder and when to run out of bounds or slide...injuries should be no more of a problem than for Big Ben or McNabb...a couple of other "slower", yet mobile QB's.

Judging from his college career, that goes totally against Tebow's nature. But
that is exactly what is going to have to happen if he wants to stay on the
field . . .

-----

[Lancane]

Whoever the GM is, and whoever the coach is, Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. Maybe over the next few weeks he can up a bit and we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. Will be nice to see if they take the handcuffs off of him next week though and if his luck keeps going the way it did today.

I'm not even going to deny that which you are talking about is not possible. The majority will not want to hear it though, but the NFL is a cutthroat business. So could they be jacking up his value to possibly ship him out after the season, or to both evaluate him and raise his trade value? Yes, they could...and it really sounds cold, but fact is that an organization will do what it feels best in the end.

As to the rest of your post, it is absurd at best. Did you actually expect him to come in and have a 300 yard game and throw for four or so touchdowns? Maybe you should ask if he's the one that can walk on water and not Jesus! He did well enough with such a sorry-ass conservative gameplan and even the shottier two-bit play calling. Let's see what he can do over the next two weeks before we write him off completely.

[honz]

I think any HC or GM would be asinine to immediately trade Tebow if you inherited him. When you have a guy like that on your team, you are going to at least give him a shot to prove himself before jettisoning him. I'd bet big, big money that Tebow is at the very least given a fair shot at winning the job next year, regardless of who the new coach is.

[BroncoBJ]

I think what people need to realize is that not every coach that joins a new team immediatly goes to trade thier qb. Only 1 person I know that would do that. :lol:

Though I do wonder what Tebow and the future of this team will be. I would love to see him succeed and succeed with us. Just hope we finish strong and win our last 2. :rockon:

[GEM]

I think any HC or GM would be asinine to immediately trade Tebow if you inherited him. When you have a guy like that on your team, you are going to at least give him a shot to prove himself before jettisoning him. I'd bet big, big money that Tebow is at the very least given a fair shot at winning the job next year, regardless of who the new coach is.

Well....McDouche did trade Cutler before giving him a shot...

[zbeg]

I think any HC or GM would be asinine to immediately trade Tebow if you inherited him. When you have a guy like that on your team, you are going to at least give him a shot to prove himself before jettisoning him. I'd bet big, big money that Tebow is at the very least given a fair shot at winning the job next year, regardless of who the new coach is.

And there's also the marketing aspect. Tebow is a huge draw for the Broncos, and the 15k no-shows for the Rams game couldn't have gone over well with Bowlen. From a football standpoint, Tebow is mostly unrealized potential. From a marketing standpoint on the other hand, he's already gold. He gives fans a reason to want to go to the games.

The NFL is still a business, and getting rid of Tebow right now would be a ridiculously bad business decision.

[Canmore]

I think what people need to realize is that not every coach that joins a new team immediatly goes to trade thier qb. Only 1 person I know that would do that. :lol:

Though I do wonder what Tebow and the future of this team will be. I would love to see him succeed and succeed with us. Just hope we finish strong and win our last 2. :rockon:

I'm looking for improvement and better play calling.

[Traveler]

Did anyone else notice how the defensive players (as badly as they played) were fired up on the sidelines after Tebow made a couple of nice plays and even when he didn't?

They seemed to rally around him in such a way that I haven't seen with Orton at QB. Tebow played pretty well given the limited diversity in the play-calling.

However, I understand doing so, being it was his first fulltime game action. My guess is that they add a little more this week for the Houston game. Nice job by the kid.

Lastly, it's ridiculous for anyone to even mention the team possibly trading Tebow this offseason. Denver will not invest a guaranteed $40-50 million on two young QB's.

[TXBRONC]

Whoever the GM is, and whoever the coach is, Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. Maybe over the next few weeks he can up a bit and we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. Will be nice to see if they take the handcuffs off of him next week though and if his luck keeps going the way it did today.

It looked like Lloyd had control of the ball before he slide out of bounds and after seeing the replay several times I know overturning the original ruling was the right thing to do.

You admit that offensive game plan handcuffed Tebow yet criticizing his stats that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Did you think with game plan they gave Tebow that he was going to put eye popping numbers? I agree the numbers weren't impress but the performance under the circumstance was in my opinion.

[chazoe60]

Is there an anti-high5 I can give to the mind numbingly stupid OP?

[Nomad]

Revamp this defense especially the DL and solidify the run game and Tebow will be fine! Give the guy his due to prove himself!

[Dirk]

I think what people need to realize is that not every coach that joins a new team immediatly goes to trade thier qb. Only 1 person I know that would do that. :lol:

I know of another...Shanahan traded Campbell off and got McNabb. Just sayin'.

[Nomad]

I know of another...Shanahan traded Campbell off and got McNabb. Just sayin'.

Probably wishes he would have kept Campbell!!:lol:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Is there an anti-high5 I can give to the mind numbingly stupid OP?

Nah, we're not childish like the "other" board where the social elite can "neg" people. It's better just to call him out in front of everyone! :D

[MasterShake]

So the run and the TD toss to Lloyd was a fluke? What about the gorgeous pass that was dropped in the endzone by Ball? Was that Tebow's fault or the receivers? Just like there is no excuse for dropping a ball, there is no apology for a good catch or 40 yard TD run.

[Dirk]

So the run and the TD toss to Lloyd was a fluke? What about the gorgeous pass that was dropped in the endzone by Ball? Was that Tebow's fault or the receivers? Just like there is no excuse for dropping a ball, there is no apology for a good catch or 40 yard TD run.

People will never be able to agree 100% on Tebow. I think if the kid started every game next year and won the MVP and was the MVP of the SB some will still say it was luck or he didn't deserve it.

You can't please everyone.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

People will never be able to agree 100% on Tebow. I think if the kid started every game next year and won the MVP and was the MVP of the SB some will still say it was luck or he didn't deserve it.

You can't please everyone.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTD9HlF6DJpx693lSnx3JQVzJPvWV4TF 71FZGs2jCLA118Qjoamrw

[shank]

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/i_am_a_cat_with_a_human_body_your_argument_is_inva lid.png

[Northman]

Probably wishes he would have kept Campbell!!:lol:

Maybe in hindsight, but i would of made that trade too as at the time it was an upgrade. In the long run neither Campbell or McNabb have been great this year.

[Northman]

People will never be able to agree 100% on Tebow. I think if the kid started every game next year and won the MVP and was the MVP of the SB some will still say it was luck or he didn't deserve it.

You can't please everyone.

Probably. I heard that in 08' too.

[vandammage13]

Nah, we're not childish like the "other" board where the social elite can "neg" people. It's better just to call him out in front of everyone! :D

Yep...that board is full of those know it alls. Clowns like Alastor on there who speak as if they are a profit or something and then neg you for disagreeing with them. Terrible message board over there.

[Dzone]

And he threw a perfect touchdown pass that was dropped by lance ball...That ball should have been caught..no excuse

[SOCALORADO.]

And he threw a perfect touchdown pass that was dropped by lance ball...That ball should have been caught..no excuse

No! Dont discuss anything positive that Tebow did!
Just hate for Tebow, and love for Kyle, the noodle-armed , folds like a wet paper towel from the slightest pressure, but trys really hard Orton.

:defense:

[vandammage13]

And he threw a perfect touchdown pass that was dropped by lance ball...That ball should have been caught..no excuse

I know...If Ball makes that catch, there may have been a different outcome. I like how there are still people that go out of their way to dismiss Tebow, despite looking pretty darn solid in his first start.

Many just thought he would be downright awful, and he was anything but. Give the guy props...He played really well, all things considered, and I am stoked for the future and what he brings to the table.

Finally something to get excited about.

[vandammage13]

Lloyd was sitting on his ass out of bounds by the time his hand got around to gripping the ball... Till then it was bouncing around on his chest the whole time. You could tell by his reaction after the play that he knew he didnt have control till he was looking up at the cheerleader's crotch.

As for the run, it was a busted play... Tebow said it was supposed to be a handoff.

Hey they got credit for both though and if Tebow is able to bring that type of luck to ever game, then I have no doubts he will win lots of games. Question is, when that luck runs out what are we left with?

Hmmm....where did you see that Tebow said this (Link Please?)

I'm not going to say for sure it wasn't a botched handoff, but that looked like a designed QB Draw all the way to me.

[Krugan]

Its been said on most of the local news shows as well, was supposed to be a handoff to Buck, but it worked regardless.

Something out of nothing is always a plus.

[Northman]

No! Dont discuss anything positive that Tebow did!
Just hate for Tebow, and love for Kyle, the noodle-armed , folds like a wet paper towel from the slightest pressure, but trys really hard Orton.

:defense:


http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/data:image/jpg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAkGBwgHBgkIBwgKCgkLDRYPDQwMDRsUFRAWIB0iIiAdHx 8kKDQsJCYxJx8fLT0tMTU3Ojo6Iys/RD84QzQ5Ojf/2wBDAQoKCg0MDRoPDxo3JR8lNzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nz c3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzf/wAARCACqANsDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQUBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwECBAUGBwAI/8QAPBAAAQMDAwEFBgQGAQMFAAAAAQACAwQRIQUSMUEGEyJRYRQ ycYGRsQcjocEVQlJi0fDhFjRTM0NygvH/xAAZAQADAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMBBAX/xAAhEQADAQACAgMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAQIRAyESMQQTQVEiMv/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8AzrYsIb4sqUExwU2j0lTRF2ZRGgALzhYrw BsswZvo8bJt151xyD9EjUxz2Ja5RY2WymNGUdvuqkrTlrpiJ7X 7UNxTC4hWXFon3Y8HvdckprUPddFjBPCnc4WmvIKw3UqJl0yGn yDdWEUQAuoMuuiOWYQnR3CsBHdCljskZaaZWyRqO9inzNsFFdk YWM6JtkYBNLVJiidK9rI23e44Cv6TslUzRte8SEHN2s2t+G5xF/kCswf7lPsz0NJNM27IztPDjZo+pwiR0k8shihjc9/kwbvstxHoXeVTX2/JiFmRF7SXEdMcDi6tKOlkkbNFUR08cW3DWBxIN/l0usWEb+T/AA5w6CSBxZKLObyLg2+i9Y+S2mp6VTQF7nOewDJO3DfiBY/ostWRMDy6JzXtvcFo/wBKdIWeZshFDLC7hHLbosUQ6plIVZEbTvPmn+yP9VbRQNLeEcU 7bKigg+bDOF+3qm7y42bk+Qyp2iabHqMjjU1JgibjwC7nH0vi3 qugaXHpej0TIaJ8jXHMktmlzz6/4UXR0U5g5gIpi0vEUhaOXBhIHzUrSaZtXVtZIS2JoLpCDkN8h8 V0nVtcdQ0ZlpalsxAuYn2DrdTbgrKzPp6xk2oxwxRvnAYWsbYX HJt0vhK6Nn/T9ETXW6W7Tnvo6VkMsRAa5pNyL5BzlZpriVYakyWFjYiSA/xbfIKva03wmn0LyJfgRqMw4Q2sKI0EBXh4zzeRHnWQXuBT38KM 52V2q1hyeOscDmykwmygtflS4HbrLl5WehwQWcDlMjd0UCnUth sLrnZ2eCD7rIMrrhI+QWUWSW/RKx54xJHXNla6N2cdq2RMIQwXe5wuLeapt3hueOq6xoOnRfwGk bNDYyRiR8bTYEnz88WQpddITnv65K3TtHpKF4j0imE9QB+ZVTZ DPh0F/IfNXUekSvPeSuFRKRjvHENb8gppEVHTOqq2VkMEYuSfCB/j5Lnvab8WI6Z7oNGia4tNu9mBJ+TenzTPilf9PTlhcvL2ul/X6NtU6Vq3d7aaopornpGbC/7oTNK1iCjDXSxVso/8hLb+VsY/fC4nW/iP2gqXuca+cN5sx+wAfAK4k7Q6xDTQtfqNZFKwfmPMm5plJz4n Xx08rg8gXR4S/wAGfGs6tM6jqWifxGm3SRyxTAZZcOvz/n9FznVaCTT6l8Ug4OD0cFd0f4jzUznMmZFUwRAv7172teWgdbY BJIAuAfEMBXWpSaX2q0A6npwLZYid7HW3A+RTTKXSMlckrya6O dkG/CNGUsjLHhDuWrWsLr/RZQO8KkDhQYHgAKWJRZUlkbjsuNCoZNMpIoHQRxkgPkc8tuXEZ uSk1bWDpO0P7uQP4tZyxVX2gqYostIj/mcqpmsmta4TOc8OuGWGQuLdOjx/WXdfP7RXioc3ZFKPcGBfgqz0qLu9PYyaW9suaB9lm4p5KoRMkb YsNyepV3S1BiLRew8kYNOrsHrpjfXu7rLQ1oH0VcyL0Uiok76p kk53OulaFSRKfQLuvReMeFKsE0hVRyWiulaQojwVayRh3RQpIs qip4Q8VpDDCSpVMCDnhebEjRRqVNnfw4ibBnhToonO4QKGMHFg rykgAaDYfRIy1NIhCjJGQgS0YbnatB3YDeAo1REC3gJRVyMzc0 Pis3BPC7HNVU2iaWauvlEdPBE1rieSQALD1JXL4od1dTtLHOb3 jS4NF7i4v+ir+3XanUu00ktJN3VJp0L9zYoTue45A3P488AW9S qRXiiXyMqpT9FX267d1naOqMcLnR0jHWjiBx8T5n1WQ7uR+S0k +quXUHsm0OjtvFwQOf8AlPaxrG7nCwHJOLKkpezl5uWqeZi/hTtpZH4LMKXFBUCobMXz77Bpew3ftwLXPOBYA44Up1fTRYZulP kwfvx90B+tVDD+XSxtH9xuf0smdJfpNRb7SH6vXCoAhbAynbuL nNYwjdY+EZ8h9Tlar8M9XdSy6hpshIjqaWTu7n+YC4+xCyP8dl cNtVSU8zOuHNI+GSpmiTwP1Gnn09zmvZIHPp3+8B1II5Fj8fRZ qforPnLyvTNY9wI+Sjudlee/oEkficLqTenbHSJELC4jBUwQ46p9LFdoVk2AbRgfRPKEu1pzyc 7Wx3a3ZINwvm5Uih9lYQWxsDr5IULQ9c0yei9g1PZHPHM8hzh4 Xhx4v0Wx0iTRIWCQVtFFbguc1R+p6KvkLCsg0uvqagmko5XtOd wbj6nCJqVBPQRj2uRkcrvdhYQ4kdSbYCva3t12eoYyDqYqHtHF O0v/AOFltS7RUfaKoFTRQSQsiZscJLXcbk3wmfHnYRzO7Uno3XtdHD sKIy45RQ4rEdLklgiyY4oIktyvF6dM5+SOh6ZIy68HXKJy1McV eyNtskGCiPFkIlYy3FRZac8B+SFoaV12rJ0by14J81oqGW7RlI 5OpvS05CBPhpTu9s291Dqp/AUuCzrZD1KqqKejMVJHeSqf3bpDgNYBc5+n26rLUNFPPO2KVtr El5+C1FTCa7TzAHiNxJcXl2GjHTrx9lGa6GGKGGJrY2RgNs3Nj 1U2yzhPGA1ai72kIjaHdPksZW0T45MMZjobuP8AhbaapIJAy1V VZA2c7mjJQqZlcaZl4z3bzujtnkIsssbBvIVmNNY4kZJ9ECq04 hnhyOU/TF8XK6Khzmy5YGi/mrXRNGZVOe58ksTxFJJE5jrFjm7bH7hDpqMSPax7Lt+3qtaKaO jp2hguTE1hcOt3Fx+yNz0S8W2kyvoamWZro6xu2oiO2W3Dj0cP Q/70U6IjcMqK6Sws0myWN5BCoirlpGjo3eEK2Y8bRkLO0c1mgXVm 2oAAyqpohUPThkxbJIXA2JJ+6E5gHUH5J0pAe4gWBN7eSaADlB xilxsA0WVloMlQNRijilcwPeNwHBCr2gK87LQ95qYdbEbC4rH6 H41tpGtb5+aeE0YNk5QPawRwKaCQiFNIutTJ8k6hzSjsNwgtCO wKiZ5nLOA5WmyjEEutZWLmXagiLxrScvB1PDcj4q2pmbALFRoW gKbDaybC6sktJ2oEsbnKZEBZP2gpGis3hmNUjqmVdIaYkB7thP QdTf5Z+SFIXAHc4E3JB2hv6BaLUGtbAfU49Flq2W2Fz2uy0PrR Wu3C3ITJWm3kPshwShvqi1UU1YwCkkawjkkX/RTS7Kp6uiFUNkYAYJ3sznZbJXoZqie7Dt2gG4PKDUU9fAbCogP 9r2kXTWz10Y3y07XDjdE8OsqZ0K0S42+JoAAVjM8lkbT0jF/9+ahsG4sJuNwUuZ7pXbnYs0NAHQDhZPs2FrIxZdKBZETSqaVc6 Pjlc0hSfaz6qGAlW+Qvgjl8gF+UjSmlKFY8QICtP2QkiDp43G0 jrFo8wstdS6GpdTStlY6zmnAIv8UNainFXjSZ0I8pwTGncA4Ek EA5RGtd0CgeynqPL1kpBXkA+x7AEVtkFpRmppZw80khoBCQtsb hM76OLMsrGDpucPsmmrjLSWB7/UMIHyJVFpw0SGusjMn28LP1usvgjcW0z2W/mkBLR8dt1S1GvaiAXiRvdEe/Cxrm/W5ITYaqw6/peh6jW0RqhGI4/wCUSAgv+Atx6ppo5IP+8c2D0uHE/ABUn4a/iWAW6N2iqCIyQ2mq5P5PJrz5eRPHB6EbLtR2fmnLqjTzuv4nwj p/8fP4f/iTkdJdFuK03lGO7RVMbYmxQ3A5zyVj6l+/dnhW+sFzZNrtwc3BDuQfJUEjuVzbrO9QvHoYycjBU+lq2tFrgH zVPI4oRleOLhNhPycM08rqee251/W6RrYoQQwtO4YWbZUTcN3OPQK502nfJH3s/uk2DFmDrld9IkU7C4BxFgOEdPtbA49EhC1F5nEMSWTrLx4TDaM svWSlIsA5YV5IeV4ldB4AoynsFjcoYRGlAHRNEn9q0+CU5O3af iMKzCxvZfU2U4fTzv2xnxA2OD5K/qtbhiivTWe7+pwIa34qbl6enHPHgm2Wnd94ChPaY+fCPMhZep1 Gsqzb+Luj/tZZo/TKrKhlUwl/tZmI83G5+eEy4yT+Z/Ebf2mBjQ98oLTgbM3UebWomA9yIxb0uf1WKNXVQkljy5rhctlz +qcysbMCLua/qHG/6p1KRy3y3Xtmjn7QTPx3pHwKhv1Z0nvG5+Ko3PcCvCRNpLC6Go Hoqyub3cnf0pLHHkN4PyQ2ykJXTXFjkLABsqWS4e0RyeYwCuj9 gfxHl0YR6Xrrnzad7scwu59OPL+5npyOnkOZyw+IlpTWSlvhkB IvyEGn0T2l0ih7Q0jaymlYXvbeKqiIc2QdL25HryP0XLNTo6ig qTDVMLH2xYXuPMHqFU9nO1Wq9nZCaCcPp3m8lNL4o3+tuh9Qui UHabs72phFLV7KSofj2eqI2uP9j8Z+h+KlfHvo6eL5DjpnPpEM YOVuNV7F9293s0xZfhkwJH1GfuqKTs1qcD7CnDxf3o3B3/P6KTlo6fsiu9A6BpdTqtfFS0jN0shOPldXLWCNoYBYNwAtb+G3 ZqopKwV9W0RvA2xxk3cSeptwB9SVktb1qlOvanaAui9qlEbo3W NtxsnmG0Tn5M8dYOAul2JlHURVLbsuCOWnkKRhauM6XzprZI5C Y4I7wo7ym8SS5ROq9ZJdJdI0Xi9Ry08pCp2sU3seqVUFrCORwb 8L4/RQVU8YUJzSmJ3CADsfttYD5qSKiSMghxOMG/CgtNyjNOLdFoEz2jvbh5BPXGSgvfsPhvbyv/tkAm3HThPa67c8oAJv3DKDKwXBGEoNil5agBY5N7c8hLwUEXY+ 6L0QA+9kt03leCAHkkkWSOiN82zylv5IrTduTkLQIoBYbHIRME XubH6fNPe24QcxEnkLANFonbDWtGjbDFUNnphxT1Le8Z/9erfkQtXS/idSOjb/ABDRHtkHJp6gWPycP3K5sbBoLcsPIPREYHHMNnebHcowNOl6l+ K9U6lNNoNAygaWlvfyv7yQeoFtoP1WS08ipzcOcfezc381URVA bh0Tb/BSGuuQ6A7HDoOvotRhcmU07myRnxA8hW1FqLJ2hj7Ry9AOCs5H UCUMidh/n0KRzz33hPu8ELcGm3LNY8nryosjsoNDXNqqbLvzG4cnOybqbo 7uPj1Jjhcr1z5FPiYXKSIMcJHp0LoxXb2DZqkdQBiaMAkeYx/hZhb7tTSmu028bd0kR3gAZt1CwRFr3CdPo8qkIlukXlooRo6og QQ6yfvBAA5QArjleDrZTXJt0AHGQlBzlCa6yLcFaArxuSs8ikB TreSAPDCVIlQA8FeadrvTqmAp3IQAYkFNLQU1juQnA3WgDYe5d Y5YeUQsLCHxmwOQR1SPbhPpJmRStbUxmSEuBc0GxI62PRAEiCa KezajD/6wPupBhdCecdD0K2Wqfh3SN0yKv06ukfGYHSWtuc/BcCeA24tx5ccrC0dUdojlsf2W4YTmgO95oF/JI89xewJ3cHyXmOF8cIxs5trLTBNImMdb3Z/na4fMZH7q8Bus5A0x6pSM6mYNHqDj/fmtkzS5d+eFG5enpfFtfW0Pooi5oKsm04sMJ9HSbGAEKcIwBwE 8z0F8nfRkHR2F8qm1HQ6SuJcPyZv62jB+IV5I4bOVEDruOUrk5 NTMhWdmNSgu6KH2iP8AqiyfpyqeSN8TiyRjmOHLXCxC61RvAI6/BSa2hotQi2VkEco6FzfEPgeUbgqnyOMpQVt9W7G04cXUE7ox/RJkfXlZer0eupSd8DnNB95niH6fujyQPjpEIOTSlsRgggpFogo yiMd5oYTggAwN05CBTwVoDl66S68gBUrSm9EgNigAt+vktm38P tTk0in1CmraGZ01OyoNPv2yMY47b26gHr8eqxQN2n4LuunVULe ytC99RQRQN0qCJ04lb3wk3j8s34aRn4oA5ZUdlNchmlibQSTui qX0x7j8y8jAHEADNgCM2sqWspZaeZ8U8b4poztex7S0g+RB4Xe HQ1mnnWnuieyWoq6+ppix13OaYGhrm2ze4+Kom65rNJ2ep59W0 uKoqqqrgp5qRrGvdVwmnNr4cdx58wcWCAKPsn+JUWnaWzTtToX SMiiEbZIXZcAbWIPGOqw9WyJ1RJJSAiJzyWNPIbfA+ll15vZfS dVp6Knm0OOmpwKF0dTEwse8yEiRjndbYBHS44VRF2V7P11M3Vo qDUoKZ1MXmioXd6/cJu7uL84uSOFugc7gluACRfhT4Xgi91oo+xWnVBoWU2vGKqrKU 1jY6ikIa2La54JcDa4aM5+VlB1Dstq+k0s1XUQMfRxzCI1EMjX tNwC1wzfabixt1Wpispq+T2aSlqh70UrXfQ3/AGXXdgk8Q6i4XHNUcH0oB4v+y6/okvf6PQVB/wDcponE+pYCtXseKzoeY7BM3WR53ANJuq503iNisbw6JWoxclS LHKqqjU2QyEbwT5Ic5PdPyfdKz7syuvlYcxu9M1Bk8YcxwI9Fc MqPDysBoxIdYEgei1VMTsOSsZsvGT6mc7SAq0y7je+UWY+AqCD lTaR0K3hKfS0lULVFPG8eZaL/AFUOs7KUE8TjSl8EtvD4rtJ9bqZCVMiJ2/JBJnM6ulmo53wVDNkjDYhDC3OvRsfRao57Guc3ui0kXI8PRVfY 6CGSoJkiY8gGxc0G2EyEaM4L3RBwhN5PxRRwtMFSXSBKtAUFKQ mpw4KAGtJB5IRLA3IaBceSEeURvuhAE+k1bUaSohnp66pjmhuI ntlN2X8r9PRXVD277R0UtRJ7YypfO4SONVEJNrgLBzb8EBZdvI VnoTGSa1Qska17TM27XC4OUAa7S/xJ1Cjkgk1ChdLABTBjRI6MExOLi4bgQS6+bW4CkaN210r+FQ6b VP1KgIgcw1dLtc5ju/MgsObWNjjn43GdpnGeoLZyZGyNcXh5uHWb1vyqena3/p+R+0bvbWN3WzbY/Cxdj3Pi8Ol6f2h0l8OjA68BSafSyQP0+WLY9zu5kZvDvUWFvUd cKTrb21vZ7V3UrgNPpqUCCSKa742tihsyTNnNkAbjkOZz5cg5w eATYfVJI5zIi1hLQ4HcAbXta10xMnai8eyAhwObj1XUezle1vZ fTLnLaZgN/TH7Lj9T/wBnD8/uukdnc6BQX/8ACPu5NPsC4qdS3Ndt4VUakkk7inzf+m5VbibnKW/Z28T6P//Zhttp://www.dailyheadlineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/john-gruden.jpg
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/data:image/jpg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAkGBwgHBgkIBwgKCgkLDRYPDQwMDRsUFRAWIB0iIiAdHx 8kKDQsJCYxJx8fLT0tMTU3Ojo6Iys/RD84QzQ5Ojf/2wBDAQoKCg0MDRoPDxo3JR8lNzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nz c3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzc3Nzf/wAARCACqANsDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQUBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwECBAUGBwAI/8QAPBAAAQMDAwEFBgQGAQMFAAAAAQACAwQRIQUSMUEGEyJRYRQ ycYGRsQcjocEVQlJi0fDhFjRTM0NygvH/xAAZAQADAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMBBAX/xAAhEQADAQACAgMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAQIRAyESMQQTQVEiMv/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8AzrYsIb4sqUExwU2j0lTRF2ZRGgALzhYrw BsswZvo8bJt151xyD9EjUxz2Ja5RY2WymNGUdvuqkrTlrpiJ7X 7UNxTC4hWXFon3Y8HvdckprUPddFjBPCnc4WmvIKw3UqJl0yGn yDdWEUQAuoMuuiOWYQnR3CsBHdCljskZaaZWyRqO9inzNsFFdk YWM6JtkYBNLVJiidK9rI23e44Cv6TslUzRte8SEHN2s2t+G5xF/kCswf7lPsz0NJNM27IztPDjZo+pwiR0k8shihjc9/kwbvstxHoXeVTX2/JiFmRF7SXEdMcDi6tKOlkkbNFUR08cW3DWBxIN/l0usWEb+T/AA5w6CSBxZKLObyLg2+i9Y+S2mp6VTQF7nOewDJO3DfiBY/ostWRMDy6JzXtvcFo/wBKdIWeZshFDLC7hHLbosUQ6plIVZEbTvPmn+yP9VbRQNLeEcU 7bKigg+bDOF+3qm7y42bk+Qyp2iabHqMjjU1JgibjwC7nH0vi3 qugaXHpej0TIaJ8jXHMktmlzz6/4UXR0U5g5gIpi0vEUhaOXBhIHzUrSaZtXVtZIS2JoLpCDkN8h8 V0nVtcdQ0ZlpalsxAuYn2DrdTbgrKzPp6xk2oxwxRvnAYWsbYX HJt0vhK6Nn/T9ETXW6W7Tnvo6VkMsRAa5pNyL5BzlZpriVYakyWFjYiSA/xbfIKva03wmn0LyJfgRqMw4Q2sKI0EBXh4zzeRHnWQXuBT38KM 52V2q1hyeOscDmykwmygtflS4HbrLl5WehwQWcDlMjd0UCnUth sLrnZ2eCD7rIMrrhI+QWUWSW/RKx54xJHXNla6N2cdq2RMIQwXe5wuLeapt3hueOq6xoOnRfwGk bNDYyRiR8bTYEnz88WQpddITnv65K3TtHpKF4j0imE9QB+ZVTZ DPh0F/IfNXUekSvPeSuFRKRjvHENb8gppEVHTOqq2VkMEYuSfCB/j5Lnvab8WI6Z7oNGia4tNu9mBJ+TenzTPilf9PTlhcvL2ul/X6NtU6Vq3d7aaopornpGbC/7oTNK1iCjDXSxVso/8hLb+VsY/fC4nW/iP2gqXuca+cN5sx+wAfAK4k7Q6xDTQtfqNZFKwfmPMm5plJz4n Xx08rg8gXR4S/wAGfGs6tM6jqWifxGm3SRyxTAZZcOvz/n9FznVaCTT6l8Ug4OD0cFd0f4jzUznMmZFUwRAv7172teWgdbY BJIAuAfEMBXWpSaX2q0A6npwLZYid7HW3A+RTTKXSMlckrya6O dkG/CNGUsjLHhDuWrWsLr/RZQO8KkDhQYHgAKWJRZUlkbjsuNCoZNMpIoHQRxkgPkc8tuXEZ uSk1bWDpO0P7uQP4tZyxVX2gqYostIj/mcqpmsmta4TOc8OuGWGQuLdOjx/WXdfP7RXioc3ZFKPcGBfgqz0qLu9PYyaW9suaB9lm4p5KoRMkb YsNyepV3S1BiLRew8kYNOrsHrpjfXu7rLQ1oH0VcyL0Uiok76p kk53OulaFSRKfQLuvReMeFKsE0hVRyWiulaQojwVayRh3RQpIs qip4Q8VpDDCSpVMCDnhebEjRRqVNnfw4ibBnhToonO4QKGMHFg rykgAaDYfRIy1NIhCjJGQgS0YbnatB3YDeAo1REC3gJRVyMzc0 Pis3BPC7HNVU2iaWauvlEdPBE1rieSQALD1JXL4od1dTtLHOb3 jS4NF7i4v+ir+3XanUu00ktJN3VJp0L9zYoTue45A3P488AW9S qRXiiXyMqpT9FX267d1naOqMcLnR0jHWjiBx8T5n1WQ7uR+S0k +quXUHsm0OjtvFwQOf8AlPaxrG7nCwHJOLKkpezl5uWqeZi/hTtpZH4LMKXFBUCobMXz77Bpew3ftwLXPOBYA44Up1fTRYZulP kwfvx90B+tVDD+XSxtH9xuf0smdJfpNRb7SH6vXCoAhbAynbuL nNYwjdY+EZ8h9Tlar8M9XdSy6hpshIjqaWTu7n+YC4+xCyP8dl cNtVSU8zOuHNI+GSpmiTwP1Gnn09zmvZIHPp3+8B1II5Fj8fRZ qforPnLyvTNY9wI+Sjudlee/oEkficLqTenbHSJELC4jBUwQ46p9LFdoVk2AbRgfRPKEu1pzyc 7Wx3a3ZINwvm5Uih9lYQWxsDr5IULQ9c0yei9g1PZHPHM8hzh4 Xhx4v0Wx0iTRIWCQVtFFbguc1R+p6KvkLCsg0uvqagmko5XtOd wbj6nCJqVBPQRj2uRkcrvdhYQ4kdSbYCva3t12eoYyDqYqHtHF O0v/AOFltS7RUfaKoFTRQSQsiZscJLXcbk3wmfHnYRzO7Uno3XtdHD sKIy45RQ4rEdLklgiyY4oIktyvF6dM5+SOh6ZIy68HXKJy1McV eyNtskGCiPFkIlYy3FRZac8B+SFoaV12rJ0by14J81oqGW7RlI 5OpvS05CBPhpTu9s291Dqp/AUuCzrZD1KqqKejMVJHeSqf3bpDgNYBc5+n26rLUNFPPO2KVtr El5+C1FTCa7TzAHiNxJcXl2GjHTrx9lGa6GGKGGJrY2RgNs3Nj 1U2yzhPGA1ai72kIjaHdPksZW0T45MMZjobuP8AhbaapIJAy1V VZA2c7mjJQqZlcaZl4z3bzujtnkIsssbBvIVmNNY4kZJ9ECq04 hnhyOU/TF8XK6Khzmy5YGi/mrXRNGZVOe58ksTxFJJE5jrFjm7bH7hDpqMSPax7Lt+3qtaKaO jp2hguTE1hcOt3Fx+yNz0S8W2kyvoamWZro6xu2oiO2W3Dj0cP Q/70U6IjcMqK6Sws0myWN5BCoirlpGjo3eEK2Y8bRkLO0c1mgXVm 2oAAyqpohUPThkxbJIXA2JJ+6E5gHUH5J0pAe4gWBN7eSaADlB xilxsA0WVloMlQNRijilcwPeNwHBCr2gK87LQ95qYdbEbC4rH6 H41tpGtb5+aeE0YNk5QPawRwKaCQiFNIutTJ8k6hzSjsNwgtCO wKiZ5nLOA5WmyjEEutZWLmXagiLxrScvB1PDcj4q2pmbALFRoW gKbDaybC6sktJ2oEsbnKZEBZP2gpGis3hmNUjqmVdIaYkB7thP QdTf5Z+SFIXAHc4E3JB2hv6BaLUGtbAfU49Flq2W2Fz2uy0PrR Wu3C3ITJWm3kPshwShvqi1UU1YwCkkawjkkX/RTS7Kp6uiFUNkYAYJ3sznZbJXoZqie7Dt2gG4PKDUU9fAbCogP 9r2kXTWz10Y3y07XDjdE8OsqZ0K0S42+JoAAVjM8lkbT0jF/9+ahsG4sJuNwUuZ7pXbnYs0NAHQDhZPs2FrIxZdKBZETSqaVc6 Pjlc0hSfaz6qGAlW+Qvgjl8gF+UjSmlKFY8QICtP2QkiDp43G0 jrFo8wstdS6GpdTStlY6zmnAIv8UNainFXjSZ0I8pwTGncA4Ek EA5RGtd0CgeynqPL1kpBXkA+x7AEVtkFpRmppZw80khoBCQtsb hM76OLMsrGDpucPsmmrjLSWB7/UMIHyJVFpw0SGusjMn28LP1usvgjcW0z2W/mkBLR8dt1S1GvaiAXiRvdEe/Cxrm/W5ITYaqw6/peh6jW0RqhGI4/wCUSAgv+Atx6ppo5IP+8c2D0uHE/ABUn4a/iWAW6N2iqCIyQ2mq5P5PJrz5eRPHB6EbLtR2fmnLqjTzuv4nwj p/8fP4f/iTkdJdFuK03lGO7RVMbYmxQ3A5zyVj6l+/dnhW+sFzZNrtwc3BDuQfJUEjuVzbrO9QvHoYycjBU+lq2tFrgH zVPI4oRleOLhNhPycM08rqee251/W6RrYoQQwtO4YWbZUTcN3OPQK502nfJH3s/uk2DFmDrld9IkU7C4BxFgOEdPtbA49EhC1F5nEMSWTrLx4TDaM svWSlIsA5YV5IeV4ldB4AoynsFjcoYRGlAHRNEn9q0+CU5O3af iMKzCxvZfU2U4fTzv2xnxA2OD5K/qtbhiivTWe7+pwIa34qbl6enHPHgm2Wnd94ChPaY+fCPMhZep1 Gsqzb+Luj/tZZo/TKrKhlUwl/tZmI83G5+eEy4yT+Z/Ebf2mBjQ98oLTgbM3UebWomA9yIxb0uf1WKNXVQkljy5rhctlz +qcysbMCLua/qHG/6p1KRy3y3Xtmjn7QTPx3pHwKhv1Z0nvG5+Ko3PcCvCRNpLC6Go Hoqyub3cnf0pLHHkN4PyQ2ykJXTXFjkLABsqWS4e0RyeYwCuj9 gfxHl0YR6Xrrnzad7scwu59OPL+5npyOnkOZyw+IlpTWSlvhkB IvyEGn0T2l0ih7Q0jaymlYXvbeKqiIc2QdL25HryP0XLNTo6ig qTDVMLH2xYXuPMHqFU9nO1Wq9nZCaCcPp3m8lNL4o3+tuh9Qui UHabs72phFLV7KSofj2eqI2uP9j8Z+h+KlfHvo6eL5DjpnPpEM YOVuNV7F9293s0xZfhkwJH1GfuqKTs1qcD7CnDxf3o3B3/P6KTlo6fsiu9A6BpdTqtfFS0jN0shOPldXLWCNoYBYNwAtb+G3 ZqopKwV9W0RvA2xxk3cSeptwB9SVktb1qlOvanaAui9qlEbo3W NtxsnmG0Tn5M8dYOAul2JlHURVLbsuCOWnkKRhauM6XzprZI5C Y4I7wo7ym8SS5ROq9ZJdJdI0Xi9Ry08pCp2sU3seqVUFrCORwb 8L4/RQVU8YUJzSmJ3CADsfttYD5qSKiSMghxOMG/CgtNyjNOLdFoEz2jvbh5BPXGSgvfsPhvbyv/tkAm3HThPa67c8oAJv3DKDKwXBGEoNil5agBY5N7c8hLwUEXY+ 6L0QA+9kt03leCAHkkkWSOiN82zylv5IrTduTkLQIoBYbHIRME XubH6fNPe24QcxEnkLANFonbDWtGjbDFUNnphxT1Le8Z/9erfkQtXS/idSOjb/ABDRHtkHJp6gWPycP3K5sbBoLcsPIPREYHHMNnebHcowNOl6l+ K9U6lNNoNAygaWlvfyv7yQeoFtoP1WS08ipzcOcfezc381URVA bh0Tb/BSGuuQ6A7HDoOvotRhcmU07myRnxA8hW1FqLJ2hj7Ry9AOCs5H UCUMidh/n0KRzz33hPu8ELcGm3LNY8nryosjsoNDXNqqbLvzG4cnOybqbo 7uPj1Jjhcr1z5FPiYXKSIMcJHp0LoxXb2DZqkdQBiaMAkeYx/hZhb7tTSmu028bd0kR3gAZt1CwRFr3CdPo8qkIlukXlooRo6og QQ6yfvBAA5QArjleDrZTXJt0AHGQlBzlCa6yLcFaArxuSs8ikB TreSAPDCVIlQA8FeadrvTqmAp3IQAYkFNLQU1juQnA3WgDYe5d Y5YeUQsLCHxmwOQR1SPbhPpJmRStbUxmSEuBc0GxI62PRAEiCa KezajD/6wPupBhdCecdD0K2Wqfh3SN0yKv06ukfGYHSWtuc/BcCeA24tx5ccrC0dUdojlsf2W4YTmgO95oF/JI89xewJ3cHyXmOF8cIxs5trLTBNImMdb3Z/na4fMZH7q8Bus5A0x6pSM6mYNHqDj/fmtkzS5d+eFG5enpfFtfW0Pooi5oKsm04sMJ9HSbGAEKcIwBwE 8z0F8nfRkHR2F8qm1HQ6SuJcPyZv62jB+IV5I4bOVEDruOUrk5 NTMhWdmNSgu6KH2iP8AqiyfpyqeSN8TiyRjmOHLXCxC61RvAI6/BSa2hotQi2VkEco6FzfEPgeUbgqnyOMpQVt9W7G04cXUE7ox/RJkfXlZer0eupSd8DnNB95niH6fujyQPjpEIOTSlsRgggpFogo yiMd5oYTggAwN05CBTwVoDl66S68gBUrSm9EgNigAt+vktm38P tTk0in1CmraGZ01OyoNPv2yMY47b26gHr8eqxQN2n4LuunVULe ytC99RQRQN0qCJ04lb3wk3j8s34aRn4oA5ZUdlNchmlibQSTui qX0x7j8y8jAHEADNgCM2sqWspZaeZ8U8b4poztex7S0g+RB4Xe HQ1mnnWnuieyWoq6+ppix13OaYGhrm2ze4+Kom65rNJ2ep59W0 uKoqqqrgp5qRrGvdVwmnNr4cdx58wcWCAKPsn+JUWnaWzTtToX SMiiEbZIXZcAbWIPGOqw9WyJ1RJJSAiJzyWNPIbfA+ll15vZfS dVp6Knm0OOmpwKF0dTEwse8yEiRjndbYBHS44VRF2V7P11M3Vo qDUoKZ1MXmioXd6/cJu7uL84uSOFugc7gluACRfhT4Xgi91oo+xWnVBoWU2vGKqrKU 1jY6ikIa2La54JcDa4aM5+VlB1Dstq+k0s1XUQMfRxzCI1EMjX tNwC1wzfabixt1Wpispq+T2aSlqh70UrXfQ3/AGXXdgk8Q6i4XHNUcH0oB4v+y6/okvf6PQVB/wDcponE+pYCtXseKzoeY7BM3WR53ANJuq503iNisbw6JWoxclS LHKqqjU2QyEbwT5Ic5PdPyfdKz7syuvlYcxu9M1Bk8YcxwI9Fc MqPDysBoxIdYEgei1VMTsOSsZsvGT6mc7SAq0y7je+UWY+AqCD lTaR0K3hKfS0lULVFPG8eZaL/AFUOs7KUE8TjSl8EtvD4rtJ9bqZCVMiJ2/JBJnM6ulmo53wVDNkjDYhDC3OvRsfRao57Guc3ui0kXI8PRVfY 6CGSoJkiY8gGxc0G2EyEaM4L3RBwhN5PxRRwtMFSXSBKtAUFKQ mpw4KAGtJB5IRLA3IaBceSEeURvuhAE+k1bUaSohnp66pjmhuI ntlN2X8r9PRXVD277R0UtRJ7YypfO4SONVEJNrgLBzb8EBZdvI VnoTGSa1Qska17TM27XC4OUAa7S/xJ1Cjkgk1ChdLABTBjRI6MExOLi4bgQS6+bW4CkaN210r+FQ6b VP1KgIgcw1dLtc5ju/MgsObWNjjn43GdpnGeoLZyZGyNcXh5uHWb1vyqena3/p+R+0bvbWN3WzbY/Cxdj3Pi8Ol6f2h0l8OjA68BSafSyQP0+WLY9zu5kZvDvUWFvUd cKTrb21vZ7V3UrgNPpqUCCSKa742tihsyTNnNkAbjkOZz5cg5w eATYfVJI5zIi1hLQ4HcAbXta10xMnai8eyAhwObj1XUezle1vZ fTLnLaZgN/TH7Lj9T/wBnD8/uukdnc6BQX/8ACPu5NPsC4qdS3Ndt4VUakkk7inzf+m5VbibnKW/Z28T6P//Z

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Hmmm....where did you see that Tebow said this (Link Please?)

I'm not going to say for sure it wasn't a botched handoff, but that looked like a designed QB Draw all the way to me.

Tebow talks about it in the post game presser on Broncos TV...

http://www.denverbroncos.com/

[Northman]

I know...If Ball makes that catch, there may have been a different outcome. I like how there are still people that go out of their way to dismiss Tebow, despite looking pretty darn solid in his first start.

Many just thought he would be downright awful, and he was anything but. Give the guy props...He played really well, all things considered, and I am stoked for the future and what he brings to the table.

Finally something to get excited about.

Yep. I thought he would struggle more than he did but was very pleased that he performed well. I never expected us to win the game but the fact that we were in the game for most of it was very positive and had a lot to do with Tim.

[Dzone]

Next week, he will light it up and then critics will say it was just because Houston is the worst defense in the NFL

[nevcraw]

I like Eddie Royal but it sure would be nice to have Desean Jackson on this team..

McD would have traded him last year..

[Nomad]

Next week, he will light it up and then critics will say it was just because Houston is the worst defense in the NFL

Kubiak will be an awesome HC for the BRONCOS!!:ohwell:

[slim]

Its been said on most of the local news shows as well, was supposed to be a handoff to Buck, but it worked regardless.

Something out of nothing is always a plus.

In fact, his ability to make something out of a busted play may be one of his greatest attributes.

We haven't had a true playmaker at the QB position since you-know-who (no offense, Cutler fans).

[pnbronco]

Hmmm....where did you see that Tebow said this (Link Please?)

I'm not going to say for sure it wasn't a botched handoff, but that looked like a designed QB Draw all the way to me.

Tim said it himself on the news last night. I saw it on Channel 4, CBS, the All Access show that goes from 10:30 to 11:00.

[SOCALORADO.]

Yep. I thought he would struggle more than he did but was very pleased that he performed well. I never expected us to win the game but the fact that we were in the game for most of it was very positive and had a lot to do with Tim.

Tim freakin Tebow doesnt need to prepare, ever.
When he orders a salad, he gets the dressing right there on top of the salad, where it belongs...where there is no turning back.
Not like those Ortons who get it on the side.

[Lonestar]

Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. .

You are not serious are you.

The replay must have been definitive or the ref would not have overturned the "Lloyd finally got control well out of bound" as you described it.

Did tebow knock it out of the park with his first start. Absolutely not.

Is he a better QB than Orton. Nope.

Is he the long term answer in DEN.
I think so he will be a very good QB in the right scheme, he is a great leader, his arm will only get better is supposedly super smart and from what I have seen our next Franchise QB

Might not be next year but he will be.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[BroncoStud]

I am pretty sure we will be just fine with Tebow at QB. Denver MUST address the defense in this draft. There is no alternative. I wouldn't mind if every single pick went towards bolstering the defense.

[Jake Klug]

The 40 yard run was luck? LOL. This is classic denial. Luck? Really? The guy has the SEC record for running TDs. He did it in his first quarter of play.

[BroncoStud]

You are not serious are you.

The replay must have been definitive or the ref would not have overturned the "Lloyd finally got control well out of bound" as you described it.

Did tebow knock it out of the park with his first start. Absolutely not.

Is he a better QB than Orton. Nope.

Is he the long term answer in DEN.
I think so he will be a very good QB in the right scheme, he is a great leader, his arm will only get better is supposedly super smart and from what I have seen our next Franchise QB

Might not be next year but he will be.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I disagree that Tebow isn't as good as Orton. If Orton plays that game Denver likely loses something close to 59-14 again. Tebow kept it completitive and he inspired his teammates to step up their efforts.

I could care less what Orton-supporters say, the Denver Broncos are BETTER with Tim Tebow at QB. Given a few more games, a full off-season, and another Preseason, it isn't even going to be close.

[vandammage13]

Tebow talks about it in the post game presser on Broncos TV...

http://www.denverbroncos.com/

Cool...thx for the link. Kind of strange though, considering all the good downfield blocking he got on that play, and the fact that they called a QB Draw like 3 other times in similar 3rd and long situations that game.

[Jake Klug]

I disagree that Tebow isn't as good as Orton. If Orton plays that game Denver likely loses something close to 59-14 again. Tebow kept it completitive and he inspired his teammates to step up their efforts.

I could care less what Orton-supporters say, the Denver Broncos are BETTER with Tim Tebow at QB. Given a few more games, a full off-season, and another Preseason, it isn't even going to be close.

That was the most impactful 8/16 that Ive seen in a long time. Its amazing how Tebow's statline in his first game more positively affected the game than many of Ortons 300 yard games. Imagine what Tebow will be when he's learned the ropes.

[SOCALORADO.]

That was the most impactful 8/16 that Ive seen in a long time. Its amazing how Tebow's statline in his first game more positively affected the game than many of Ortons 300 yard games. Imagine what Tebow will be when he's learned the ropes.

Sorta like Rapistberger when he was a rookie in PIT.
Threw 8-12 times a game, made key passes when needed, ran for a 1st down or 2, and PIT hammered the opposing team with the run game and solid defense.
Now look at him. Thats how a team develops a succesful QB.
It doesnt happen overnight people.

[Jake Klug]

Sorta like Rapistberger when he was a rookie in PIT.
Threw 8-12 times a game, made key passes when needed, ran for a 1st down or 2, and PIT hammered the opposing team with the run game and solid defense.
Now look at him. Thats how a team develops a succesful QB.
It doesnt happen overnight people.

Good call on the Roethlisberger comparison. Except Tebow isn't a ***** like Roethlisberger is. I dont know. When Tebow is at QB, it just feels like something good is going to happen. Its hard to put your finger on. The game just has a totally different vibe. I love it.

[SOCALORADO.]

Good call on the R'berger comparison. Except Tebow isn't a ***** like R'berger is. I dont know. When Tebow is at QB, it just feels like something good is going to happen. Its hard to put your finger on. The game just has a totally different vibe. I love it.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/574/617/107619531_display_image.jpg?1292657765

[Dzone]

I have to disagree with the fine folks who think Orton is a better quarterback than Tebow.
They are like night and day. No comparison. We could have beaten AZ last week with Tebow.

[Dzone]

Good call on the R'berger comparison. Except Tebow isn't a ***** like R'berger is. I dont know. When Tebow is at QB, it just feels like something good is going to happen. Its hard to put your finger on. The game just has a totally different vibe. I love it.
Yea, no doubt...a totally different vibe. He has an aura of leadership that Orton could only dream of having.

[Juriga72]

So Tebow's 100 qb rated "First career start" doesnt count ?

Is THAT what is being said here?

[SOCALORADO.]

So Tebow's 100 qb rated "First career start" doesnt count ?

Is THAT what is being said here?

Basically. And his Heisman doesnt count. And the national championships dont count, and the.......

[tomjonesrocks]

I like Eddie Royal but it sure would be nice to have Desean Jackson on this team..

Ditto--but even if he'd been drafted instead of Royal as he should have been he would have clashed with McD and been traded.

[ikillz0mbies]

I like how everything lately has been about "luck" (both noun and player).

In regards to Tebow and his 40 yard run, that is NOT luck at all. Yes it was a broken play, but you have to take into account his awareness by taking off for the TD. Tebow has the ability to make SOMETHING out of NOTHING. Give him the start these last couple of games and see how he does. This past Sunday was his first full start and he didn't even throw much. He is going to make adjustments to improve his game. We just have to see how well he executes.

In regards to the Lloyd TD grab, credit goes to Lloyd on making that catch. But Tebow gets some credit for at least throwing it to him. I do think it was a bad decision to throw to that kind of coverage, but that's a throw coming from a rookie. Point is, he CAN make better decisions and when he makes mistakes, he'll learn from it. Give him a chance; it's only been one game and the season is over anyway.

[I Eat Staples]

One of the most openly critical fans about Tebow here. I'm not sure what you mean when you say a 40 yard touchdown run is luck in the first place, but on that play Tebow ran with speed, power, and vision. He saw the seam and hit it as well as any HB.

I thought the TD pass was out of bounds at first, but after a few more looks today I think Lloyd got his backside down in bounds before his feet touched out. The throw wasn't bad by any means, but it wasn't as great as some say IMO. Lloyd, however, made an amazing play on that ball.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Kudos, Staples.

Yeah, that throw could have just as easily been intercepted.
Lloyd did a great job.

On the other hand...
the TD that Ball dropped...
that throw was money.

The throw to Lloyd for the first down was good.

It was a debut game.


The rook did good.

No INT... few sacks
(Not even sure how many they counted as sack or scramble)

Tim did not fumble or mess up the snaps.

IT was a great debut.

Sure hope they game plan aroud his strengths.

[Jake Klug]

One of the most openly critical fans about Tebow here. I'm not sure what you mean when you say a 40 yard touchdown run is luck in the first place, but on that play Tebow ran with speed, power, and vision. He saw the seam and hit it as well as any HB.

I thought the TD pass was out of bounds at first, but after a few more looks today I think Lloyd got his backside down in bounds before his feet touched out. The throw wasn't bad by any means, but it wasn't as great as some say IMO. Lloyd, however, made an amazing play on that ball.

True that TD was probably more Lloyd but then you also have the dropped TD by Ball that Tebow put on the money.

I think he's able to see/anticipate when DBs are getting twisted around and is able to take calculated risks when making those deep throws. On both the pass to Lloyd and Ball, the DBs was a step or more behind the ball arriving.

[I Eat Staples]

True that TD was probably more Lloyd but then you also have the dropped TD by Ball that Tebow put on the money.

I think he's able to see/anticipate when DBs are getting twisted around and is able to take calculated risks when making those deep throws. On both the pass to Lloyd and Ball, the DBs was a step or more behind the ball arriving.

I do agree with that. I love to see throws like that to Lloyd because although more credit for the actual score goes to Lloyd like I said, Tebow saw where the DBs were and threw the ball where only Lloyd had a chance to get it. That play is low risk, high reward because its going to be a TD or incomplete.

And the throw to Ball was perfect.

[Jake Klug]

I do agree with that. I love to see throws like that to Lloyd because although more credit for the actual score goes to Lloyd like I said, Tebow saw where the DBs were and threw the ball where only Lloyd had a chance to get it. That play is low risk, high reward because its going to be a TD or incomplete.

And the throw to Ball was perfect.

Yeah, and I guess I also kind of like the fact that this anticipation might be in his tool box but also that he was willing to go for it. He didnt play scared and not throw it because the defense had a body there. He played like he was playing on a 3-10 that was trying to win.

[Jake Klug]

Yea, no doubt...a totally different vibe. He has an aura of leadership that Orton could only dream of having.

I guess the best way I can say it is theres a sense of providence with Tebow. Its like with Orton, he's trying to push that rock up the hill. But with Tebow, the belief is that he will push the rock up the hill and its a sense of belief or providence that positively affects others.

Truly, thats the most like shown by the team since the Jets game and possibly all season.

And if nothing else, its fun to see Tebow tearing off long runs. He almost had 2 long runs.

[Lonestar]

I disagree that Tebow isn't as good as Orton. If Orton plays that game Denver likely loses something close to 59-14 again. Tebow kept it completitive and he inspired his teammates to step up their efforts.

I could care less what Orton-supporters say, the Denver Broncos are BETTER with Tim Tebow at QB. Given a few more games, a full off-season, and another Preseason, it isn't even going to be close.

At this point in time he is not as good a QB as Orton is.

That was my statement IIRC.
That said I have always beleived that tebow is a Franchise QB.

Just not ready for it at this time. Tons of potential but at this point in time he is not the best QB on the team.

The playbook was dailed back or if it was not the confidence in him WAS.

Because the lousy play calling sucked. I'm not the only person that saw that.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[SOCALORADO.]

At this point in time he is not as good a QB as Orton is.

That was my statement IIRC.
That said I have always beleived that tebow is a Franchise QB.

Just not ready for it at this time. Tons of potential but at this point in time he is not the best QB on the team.

The playbook was dailed back or if it was not the confidence in him WAS.

Because the lousy play calling sucked. I'm not the only person that saw that.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Child Please.

[KCL]

At the same time when a QB is considered a HOF after one game let me know.

The guy starts his first game and is already being bitched about...:rolleyes:

[I Eat Staples]

Some people saying Tebow is already better than Orton? Lol.

[dogfish]

Whoever the GM is, and whoever the coach is, Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. Maybe over the next few weeks he can up a bit and we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. Will be nice to see if they take the handcuffs off of him next week though and if his luck keeps going the way it did today.

dan graham looked great showing off his awesome hands out there on sunday, huh?


:wave:

[UrbanBounca]

Not only did they call it out of bounds to begin with, but Denver won the challenge, making it without a doubt, a catch in bounds.

I'll take their word over someone drinking the haterade.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[vandammage13]

Some people saying Tebow is already better than Orton? Lol.

Well, it wasn't exactly going to take much to do it....all we needed to see was some excitement and fire out there rather than the dejected, defeated look that Orton so often exhibited.

[SOCALORADO.]

Well, it wasn't exactly going to take much to do it....all we needed to see was some excitement and fire out there rather than the dejected, defeated look that Orton so often exhibited.

And that folds like a wet paper towel at the slightest pressure mentality.

[slim]

dan graham looked great showing off his awesome hands out there on sunday, huh?


:wave:

I can't remember a TE that had worse hands than Graham.

I am sure someone in history had worse hands, but I don't know who.

[Dzone]

Richard Quinn looked good on that catch and hurdle...

That dude was supposed to be the best blocking TE coming out of college...whats up with that dude?

[Jake Klug]

Richard Quinn looked good on that catch and hurdle...

That dude was supposed to be the best blocking TE coming out of college...whats up with that dude?

Did you ever see the video of McDaniels chewing him out? I think an inference could be made that he's dumb and/or the coaches dont trust him.

[GEM]

I can't remember a TE that had worse hands than Graham.

I am sure someone in history had worse hands, but I don't know who.

Yet, when we signed Graham we made him the highest paid TE in the game....

[slim]

Did you ever see the video of McDaniels chewing him out? I think an inference could be made that he's dumb and/or the coaches dont trust him.

I would bet McD crushed his spirit.

See Smith, Alphonso.

[Tned]

Did anyone else notice how the defensive players (as badly as they played) were fired up on the sidelines after Tebow made a couple of nice plays and even when he didn't?

They seemed to rally around him in such a way that I haven't seen with Orton at QB. Tebow played pretty well given the limited diversity in the play-calling.


On firing up the players, this is from Studesville's presser today:


RT @MaxBroncos: Tebow "did make some nice throws," Studesville said. "His energy that he brought to the sideline was unbelievable."

[Tned]

Yet, when we signed Graham we made him the highest paid TE in the game....

Yep, bit it was supposed to be for his blocking. That he would be like a sixth lineman helping in the run game.

[TXBRONC]

The guy starts his first game and is already being bitched about...:rolleyes:

It started well before then.

[arapaho2]

I like how everything lately has been about "luck" (both noun and player).

In regards to Tebow and his 40 yard run, that is NOT luck at all. Yes it was a broken play, but you have to take into account his awareness by taking off for the TD. Tebow has the ability to make SOMETHING out of NOTHING. Give him the start these last couple of games and see how he does. This past Sunday was his first full start and he didn't even throw much. He is going to make adjustments to improve his game. We just have to see how well he executes.

In regards to the Lloyd TD grab, credit goes to Lloyd on making that catch. But Tebow gets some credit for at least throwing it to him. I do think it was a bad decision to throw to that kind of coverage, but that's a throw coming from a rookie. Point is, he CAN make better decisions and when he makes mistakes, he'll learn from it. Give him a chance; it's only been one game and the season is over anyway.

no thats just a throw made to a WR that has proven all year that if you lob it close to him...even in coverage,,,he will fight and comedown with it

orton has thrown a mulittude of those to lloyd all year

[jhildebrand]

Did you ever see the video of McDaniels chewing him out? I think an inference could be made that he's dumb and/or the coaches dont trust him.

I tried and was promptly made aware of just how different this situation is.

[Dzone]

well, its official, Tebow is getting the start against Houston...I would have posted a new thread, but someone else can do that
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16905146

[jhildebrand]

I can't remember a TE that had worse hands than Graham.

I am sure someone in history had worse hands, but I don't know who.

See

Carswell, Dwayne

[KCL]

well, its official, Tebow is getting the start against Houston...I would have posted a new thread, but someone else can do that
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16905146

Jags will..I'm sure he's busy right now getting it ready to post.

[I Eat Staples]

Not only did they call it out of bounds to begin with, but Denver won the challenge, making it without a doubt, a catch in bounds.

I'll take their word over someone drinking the haterade.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

An NFL referee's opinion isn't much more credible than the average fan.

P.S: I'm waiting for you to find this post Spikerman.


I can't remember a TE that had worse hands than Graham.

I am sure someone in history had worse hands, but I don't know who.

Richard Quinn.


Jags will..I'm sure he's busy right now getting it ready to post.

I miss his colorful titles and dancing elephants.

[horsepig]

Lloyd was sitting on his ass out of bounds by the time his hand got around to gripping the ball... Till then it was bouncing around on his chest the whole time. You could tell by his reaction after the play that he knew he didnt have control till he was looking up at the cheerleader's crotch.

As for the run, it was a busted play... Tebow said it was supposed to be a handoff.

Hey they got credit for both though and if Tebow is able to bring that type of luck to ever game, then I have no doubts he will win lots of games. Question is, when that luck runs out what are we left with?

It's called MAKING PLAYS!

[dogfish]

It's called MAKING PLAYS!

that isn't part of the system. . .

[DenBronx]

Even many of my bone headed Raider friends think Tebow will be good, yet somehow many of the arm chair GM's still bash him on his first ever start.

[I Eat Staples]

Even many of my bone headed Raider friends think Tebow will be good, yet somehow many of the arm chair GM's still bash him on his first ever start.

You didn't help Tebow's case.

[DenBronx]

You didn't help Tebow's case.

lol....does Tebow even need a case?

[horsepig]

At this point in time he is not as good a QB as Orton is.

That was my statement IIRC.
That said I have always beleived that tebow is a Franchise QB.

Just not ready for it at this time. Tons of potential but at this point in time he is not the best QB on the team.

The playbook was dailed back or if it was not the confidence in him WAS.

Because the lousy play calling sucked. I'm not the only person that saw that.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

WTF?

Orton's job is over, he's got us to our new real QB.

[DenBronx]

Even many of my bone headed Raider friends think Tebow will be good, yet somehow many of the arm chair GM's still bash him on his first ever start.


You didn't help Tebow's case.


Ok, you know what? I'll take the bait. How come even the Raider players can see it, Raider fans can see it and yet some on here refuse to even give the guy a chance?

Quote:
Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha(notes) got a good hit on Tebow late in the game but Tebow, who weighs nearly 250 pounds, doled out a lot of punishment himself.

“A lot of guys will either slide or they’ll try to take the path of least resistance. But he’s going to go head-up with a guy, every time. He’s a big guy, tough to bring down,” Asomugha said.

Quote:
“He’s a tough runner. He runs like a back,” Raiders safety Michael Huff(notes) said. “Once he gets more experience throwing the ball, he’ll be a good quarterback.”

Quote:
“People said he couldn’t be an NFL quarterback but he made some good throws, he had some good runs,” Oakland linebacker Quentin Groves(notes) said. “He does what suits him best and that’s what it is.”

Quote:
"He earned a lot of respect from me today,” defensive tackle Tommy Kelly(notes) said. “He’s a lot better athlete than you think he is. You heard so much about him and then you play him. He made a couple moves out there today that surprised me. I think he’s got a bright future.” __________________

[jhildebrand]

He didn't line up under guard

The guy had one start. Let's not send him to the HOF or the UFL based on one start.

[DenBronx]

He didn't line up under guard

The guy had one start. Let's not send him to the HOF or the UFL based on one start.

exactlly.

I just want him to have the same amount of time neckbeard had without all of the ortonites crying about it.

[jhildebrand]

exactlly.

I just want him to have the same amount of time neckbeard had without all of the ortonites crying about it.

I just don't get all the Luck talk. I would be all about Luck if this team already hadn't invested a 1st round pick in Tebow after spending a 2, 3, and 4 to be able to draft him.

At this point, this team has so many holes, drafting and playing Luck would more likely, IMHO, workout like David Carr did in Houston.

The fact is we have Tebow, and despite many reports that he doesn't belong on a NFL field at the QB position he showed they were clearly wrong.

At this point Tebow would seem to be, at a minimum, serviceable. Let's start TRULY REBUILDING.

The college game has changed so much and more and more there is a new "can't miss QB." There will be more whether it is Jake Locker or Ryan Mallett or someone else.

Let's start putting some pieces in place so that if this team does need to draft a QB high again it will be more akin to Flacco in Baltimore and Matt Ryan in Atlanta than it is Carr in Houston or Akili Smith in Cincinatti!

[TXBRONC]

that isn't part of the system. . .

Winning isn't either, but as long as you have "team" you are the shit.

[DenBronx]

I just don't get all the Luck talk. I would be all about Luck if this team already hadn't invested a 1st round pick in Tebow after spending a 2, 3, and 4 to be able to draft him.

At this point, this team has so many holes, drafting and playing Luck would more likely, IMHO, workout like David Carr did in Houston.

The fact is we have Tebow, and despite many reports that he doesn't belong on a NFL field at the QB position he showed they were clearly wrong.

At this point Tebow would seem to be, at a minimum, serviceable. Let's start TRULY REBUILDING.

The college game has changed so much and more and more there is a new "can't miss QB." There will be more whether it is Jake Locker or Ryan Mallett or someone else.

Let's start putting some pieces in place so that if this team does need to draft a QB high again it will be more akin to Flacco in Baltimore and Matt Ryan in Atlanta than it is Carr in Houston or Akili Smith in Cincinatti!

I mean if someone offered us a 1st for Tebowner then I would be all for Luck but if Luck is there when we pick why not try and trade down a couple of spots and still get a top 5-10 talent on defense?

If not I'm totally satisfied having Tebow. We have way more problems then him. No one is ever a guarantee at the QB position. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Matt Lienart ect. Tebow shows way more heart and fight then 99% of the guys coming into the NFL so I think we need to see what's he's got. These next two games will help tell the story.

[TXBRONC]

I mean if someone offered us a 1st for Tebowner then I would be all for Luck but if Luck is there when we pick why not try and trade down a couple of spots and still get a top 5-10 talent on defense?

If not I'm totally satisfied having Tebow. We have way more problems then him. No one is ever a guarantee at the QB position. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Matt Lienart ect. Tebow shows way more heart and fight then 99% of the guys coming into the NFL so I think we need to see what's he's got. These next two games will help tell the story.

Unless Tebow just comes completely unglued I doubt we will being drafting a quarterback even if Luck is available.

[hamrob]

I was pumped to see Tebow play and he did not disapoint. Considering this was...his very first game...as a pro...and had very little preparation for it, I'd say he did pretty darn well. Let's not forget that he had a TD dropped too.

That being said...we need to see if he can throw the ball and be consitent in doing so. I mean, let's see 17 for 30 for 250yds through the air.

He's a playmaker and a natural born leader...but, he needs to become a passer first, runner second QB. That's a tough evaluation...because no coach is going to buy into Tebow if they don't think he can be that QB. Tebow's a stud...but, he's not the athelete that Michael Vick was coming out of college or VY even.

He has to be able to be a "Passing" QB and the powers that be...have to believe he can developed into that.

I think he can, but it's going to take a couple years to get there. We have to have a defense and a running game for him to succeed.

[topscribe]

At this point in time he is not as good a QB as Orton is.

That was my statement IIRC.
That said I have always beleived that tebow is a Franchise QB.

Just not ready for it at this time. Tons of potential but at this point in time he is not the best QB on the team.

The playbook was dailed back or if it was not the confidence in him WAS.

Because the lousy play calling sucked. I'm not the only person that saw that.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

This is true. Tebow has the skill set to make one believe that he may be a
top quarterback in the league one day. But that day is not yet here.

Right now, he is relying on that skill set. But he is still dealing with a learning
curve in reading defenses, making decisions, and passing to all areas of the
field. He also needs to learn he is a QB, who passes first and runs as a last
option - except for draws, etc., of course. This is, for instance, what is
helping Vick finally to become a top QB: He passes as a first option, passes
as a second option, and runs as a third, whereas, his impulse previously
was to run.

Tebow doesn't have Orton's experience. And it shows at this point. We
seem to have quickly forgotten that Orton played at a Pro Bowl level up
until the last couple games. When Tebow is playing at a Pro Bowl level,
then we'll know he is there. As of now, he is not there.

Anyone who can force him/herself out of a state of starry-eyed idolizing
and look at it realistically can see this.

-----

[Jake Klug]

This is true. Tebow has the skill set to make one believe that he may be a
top quarterback in the league one day. But that day is not yet here.

Right now, he is relying on that skill set. But he is still dealing with a learning
curve in reading defenses, making decisions, and passing to all areas of the
field. He also needs to learn he is a QB, who passes first and runs as a last
option - except for draws, etc., of course. This is, for instance, what is
helping Vick finally to become a top QB: He passes as a first option, passes
as a second option, and runs as a third, whereas, his impulse previously
was to run.

Tebow doesn't have Orton's experience. And it shows at this point. We
seem to have quickly forgotten that Orton played at a Pro Bowl level up
until the last couple games. When Tebow is playing at a Pro Bowl level,
then we'll know he is there. As of now, he is not there.

Anyone who can force him/herself out of a state of starry-eyed idolizing
and look at it realistically can see this.

-----

Kyle Orton was playing at a garbage time pro bowl level maybe...but not actual pro bowl level.

[BCJ]

Whoever the GM is, and whoever the coach is, Tebow won't have bad value in a trade. Maybe over the next few weeks he can up a bit and we can get a first round pick if the new regime isn't on the Tebow train.

Other than those two TD plays where Lloyd finally got control well out of bounds and Tebow botched the handoff that turned into a 40 yd TD run, the stats and overall performance didnt look all that impressive. Will be nice to see if they take the handcuffs off of him next week though and if his luck keeps going the way it did today.

Haters gonna hate! Lloyd was completely in and if a QB has a bad snap, how many of them outside of Vick can imprevise and haul ass 40 yards to score a touchdown?

[BCJ]

Are you serious? That was the best run I have ever seen from a Broncos
QB, and that includes the Great One (except for the Helicopter Spin).

And that pass was one of the prettiest deep passes I have seen all
season, and I have seen some very pretty passes from Kyle.

Wow . . . I've got to ask again: Are you serious?

-----

Some of you might remember Elway's run down to the goal line on 3rd and long from the 30 when we played the Rams in 1988. I think it was Elway's best run until the helicopter one.

[vandammage13]

Kyle Orton was playing at a garbage time pro bowl level maybe...but not actual pro bowl level.

My thoughts exactly....

[Dzone]

Tebow is a football player who happens to play quarterback...Orton is a high school tennis player who happens to play quarterback.

[DenBronx]

Tebow is a football player who happens to play quarterback...Orton is a high school tennis player who happens to play quarterback.

Orton might make a fine AA baseball pitcher someday.

[TXBRONC]

Orton might make a fine AA baseball pitcher someday.

Class A Den, class A. ;)

[topscribe]

Some of you might remember Elway's run down to the goal line on 3rd and long from the 30 when we played the Rams in 1988. I think it was Elway's best run until the helicopter one.

Yes, I had forgotten about that. Let me qualify what I said and say that
Tebow's run is up with any run I've seen, except for the helicopter spin.

Actually, if you remember BVP's 40-yard run in preseason, that was a thing of
beauty, too. He had Tebow's and Elway's legs . . . too bad there were some
other things missing . . .

-----