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Npba900
09-04-2008, 09:17 PM
Just a passing thought. Anyone notice how many Defensive Linemen and Linebackers playing for the Giants all seem to have speed, agility, and tenacity on almost every down. These guys seem to just swarm all over the field.

How the Hell were the Giants coaches and personnel director(s) able to spot, evaluate, draft and develop all these guys!!!!

Seems like Denver could take a page out the Giants draft strategy, player evaluation and development. With the exception of Dumerville, we have no stalwart defensive pass rush talent to speak of right now. Crowder and Moss have yet to really get started and show promise, all though its still early.

However, Denver is still carrying guys like Engelberger and Ekuban who are past 30, and the younger guys like Moss and Crowder can't seem to beat them out of the starting line up.

Coach Shanahan can spot offensive talent no doubt about that. However, when it comes to evaluating and drafting Defensive linemen and Linebackers, I don't believe this is Shanahan's strong suit. I think its time for Denver to reevaluate how they draft players on Defense by bring in a personnel team that does just what the NYG personnel staff were able to do.

Point is, to make a long story short, over the last 4 or 5 years Denver has evaluated, drafted, and developed pass rush specialist (except for Dumerville)very poorly. Hopefully by the end of this season, Crowder and Moss will have finally played up to their potential. If not, it maybe back to the drawing board. Somethings gotta change.

dogfish
09-04-2008, 09:29 PM
i don't disagree that we could do a lot better at evaluating defensive talent, but i will make a few points. . .

first, the giants look like they're swarming on the pass rush because defensive coordinator steve spagnulo is a jim johnson disciple, and he blitzes from every angle. . . their entire defensive philosophy is based on bringing pressure-- an approach i devoutly hope we get back to. . .

also, jerry reese has only been their GM for two years, so when you see guys like tuck and kiwanuka, they're holdovers from the previous regime-- ernie accorsi was smart enough to stock up on pass rushers. . .

and denver has actually been quite successful at drafting and devloping linebackers under shanahan-- al wilson, john mobley, dj williams, and even ian gold was good earlier in his career. . . we even got solid play out of scrubs like donnie spragan and jayshon sykes. . . and wesley woodyard looks like another hit. . . terry pierce is the only high-profile miss at the position-- and that was an idiotic desperation move. . .

now, defensive line has been an entirely different matter. . . :frusty:

honz
09-04-2008, 09:32 PM
I somewhat agree, but let's see what Moss, Crowder, and Thomas can do in their sophmore seasons before we totally write them off.

broncogirl7
09-04-2008, 10:42 PM
Their defense looked good, but shouldn't have allowed the touchdown.
Their offense looked great and should have scored more points and it pisses me off that Denver could've had Brandon Jacobs instead of Maurice C. several years ago. That guy looked great tonight.

G_Money
09-04-2008, 11:02 PM
There offense looked great and should have scored more points and it pisses me off that Denver could've had Brandon Jacobs instead of Maurice C. several years ago. That guy looked great tonight.

Sundquist didn't like Jacobs. Didn't fit our profile:

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/tedsundquist/2007/11/27/i-feel-a-draft-in-here-part-4/


As I look at who we passed at the position, the only player that jumps out on the second day is Marion Barber III. Barber has shown productive ability with the Cowboys for sure, but was laden with his own past physical problems and deemed too high a medical risk (longevity issues) for us to take at the time. And yes, we were fully aware of his Minnesota background. So much so that Coach Shanahan had coached his father for the Gophers in ‘79.

There are a number of RB’s still active in the League from the ‘05 draft, including Brandon Jacobs (NYG) and Darren Sproles (San Diego), neither of which met the past profile for what we look for at the position. Hindsight certainly is 20/20. But I’m not sure that I “see” a single player picked between our selection of Clarett and our next selection of Chris Myers (current OC starter) in the 6th round that would have made much of a major difference at this point in our ‘07 season.

So we took Clarett because we wanted a RB at that draft slot and Barber, Sproles and Jacobs didn't meet the past profile. Barber was too high an injury risk? Compared to the other guy who was fat, out of shape, and has had multiple issues with the truth and the law? :confused:

That definitely feels like a mistake somehow. Not that Ted thought so - which is one of a number of reasons why I'm glad he's gone.

As for the NYG defense, I definitely hope we can emulate their strategy and success in some fashion. That'd work for me.

~G

Simple Jaded
09-05-2008, 12:03 PM
"However, when it comes to evaluating and drafting Defensive linemen, I don't believe this is Shanahan's strong suit."

That's the understatement of the year and it's only September, the fact is, he sucks at it.

Shanahan was on the radio just this morning making excuses for his pathetic defensive line again, his capacity for bullshit is endless, using the 2005 DL as an example of how underrated his DL is.

He was talking about how having Ekuban back from injury is somehow supposed to have an impact, about Engelberger being 100% healthy too, how it's 8-men-in-the-box FTW......and, of course, he wiped his ass with Jim Bates once again for the millionth time.

More senseless rhetoric that would have most objective NFL observers rolling their eyes, cause Mikey clearly doesn't get that it's not enough to get back to being the 2005 DL that got exposed for being a complete joke in the playoffs, the idea is to develop a legitimate NFL defensive line......Meaning Ekuban and Engelberger are no longer on your team, much less starting.

But I'm afraid that Shanahan got such an ego boost from proving the Brownco critics wrong (For 4 months, anyway) that he actually believes what he's shoveling......

silkamilkamonico
09-05-2008, 12:17 PM
They either have exceptional eye for talent evaluation, or excellent coaches that know how to develop their players.

Probably a little bit of both. I am so envious of their defense.

G_Money
09-05-2008, 12:39 PM
As annoyed as I am by our pathetic DL the last many years, you can't seriously expect Shanahan to get in front of a microphone before the first game of the year and say, "Yeah, all these guys I have are worthless but we're hoping to get through the year with 5 or 6 wins in spite of them."

The 2007 draft is the key to everything. If he flushed those 3 DL picks we'll be hurting for a while. If somebody turns into Trevor Pryce then it'll be easier to make an impactful DL.

And until it does or doesn't happen, it's probably best to hope Shanahan's blown smoke turns into something substantial, because otherwise we won't be winning anything significant for a while yet.

And since it usually takes DL about 3 years to figure out the game, they aren't lost causes yet, regardless of my personal feelings about Moss or whomever.

~G

Simple Jaded
09-05-2008, 05:36 PM
As annoyed as I am by our pathetic DL the last many years, you can't seriously expect Shanahan to get in front of a microphone before the first game of the year and say, "Yeah, all these guys I have are worthless but we're hoping to get through the year with 5 or 6 wins in spite of them."

The 2007 draft is the key to everything. If he flushed those 3 DL picks we'll be hurting for a while. If somebody turns into Trevor Pryce then it'll be easier to make an impactful DL.

And until it does or doesn't happen, it's probably best to hope Shanahan's blown smoke turns into something substantial, because otherwise we won't be winning anything significant for a while yet.

And since it usually takes DL about 3 years to figure out the game, they aren't lost causes yet, regardless of my personal feelings about Moss or whomever.

~G

That's true, he has no choice but to BS his way through questions about his DL (it's that bad), I just don't think he has to lay it on that thick.

Great coach!......Full of shit!

Personally, I would like to see him pass on the Ekuban's and Engelberger's altogether.

Both 2008 free agents that are thoroughly replaceable, the problem is, Shanahan apparently doesn't see a need to replace the DL scrubs, and even when he does he thinks he can do it all in one draft......it's hilarious.

No, I'm not saying he go in front of a microphone and wipe his ass with the players the way he does his former DC's, he wouldn't have to if he were better at his GM job......I'm saying he should diligently try to improve the DL instead of blowing smoke up peoples ass about the current POS line.

But he would rather waste picks on injured players and then just tell you the DL is not an issue.

Either way, a more honest/measured response wouldn't hurt anybody, a man that is as gifted in the art of BS should be able to do that without calling his worthless players worthless......