Broncos is now a very attractive destination for HC candidates.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Tebow's success today answers many questions.

With such a good draft position in each round....
and Tebow shining...
this is an attractive job for any candidate.

Free agents as well will be drawn to our fair city.

Tebow should have been played a month ago.

Thankfully he wasn't... because then we'd be stuck with McD
and his sub par coaching staff and lack of creativity.

[camdisco24]

I was just thinking the same thing...
How much longer til we make the decision?
I thought I heard someone on ESPN say 20 something days or was that wrong?

[silkamilkamonico]

Little early for this. The defense is one of the most disfunctional ones in the NFL, and I think we have question marks all over the oline.

Tebow makes this an attractive job for some, and an unattractive one for others.

[Lonestar]

not sure that he had all that great a day. at least passing.

He was certainly not allowed to pass the ball when we needed to .

want to talk about conservative play calling. this was the worst I have seen since maybe reeves.

[PAINTERDAVE]

The future looks bright...

with our draft position...
and some free agent aquisitions...
we can turn this thing around quickly.

Look at the chiefs...
last year they were 3 and 11 this week..

now leading the division.

[Lonestar]

Little early for this. The defense is one of the most disfunctional ones in the NFL, and I think we have question marks all over the oline.

Tebow makes this an attractive job for some, and an unattractive one for others.

Actually OAK has a pretty good DL. Not sure it was all just our oline.

The D looked good when it did not stink.

[Lonestar]

The future looks bright...

with our draft position...
and some free agent aquisitions...
we can turn this thing around qwuickly.

Look at the chiefs...
last year they were 3 and 11 this week..

now leading the division.

again they gave been sucking down top ten draft choices for long time. That also means that their #2 pics have been in the 30's also.

huge difference .

[spikerman]

I'm concerned that the coaches never had him throw the 10 yard crossing pattern. That's a staple of an NFL playbook, yet every throw Tebow made needed to have air under it with the exception of screens and one "out" pattern to Lloyd (I think). Either they don't trust TT to throw the ball with zip or the playcalling was even worse than I first thought (which would be VERY difficult).

[silkamilkamonico]

Actually OAK has a pretty good DL. Not sure it was all just our oline.

The D looked good when it did not stink.

The D remains in flux. They have no real identity. Their only players worth building around are in the twilight of their career with the exception of 1 or 2 others, and there is absolutely no young talent grooming anywhere, with the exception of Ayers.

[spikerman]

The D remains in flux. They have no real identity. Their only players worth building around are in the twilight of their career with the exception of 1 or 2 others, and there is absolutely no young talent grooming anywhere, with the exception of Ayers.

I just don't see the talent in Ayers. A HUGE problem with this defense is lack of effort and Ayers is, play in and play out, one of the worst offenders.

[jhildebrand]

I wont knock Tebow's performance in anyway. However, I think the OP is jumping the gun a bit. Let's see what the next two games bring.

[DenBronx]

Whatever happens I hope we stick with the 3-4 defense. I would cherry pick from teams like balt, pitt, jets.

[PAINTERDAVE]

i wont knock tebow's performance in anyway. However, i think the op is jumping the gun a bit. Let's see what the next two games bring.

lol

I expect a competitive game against the Texans...
possibly a win.

It's gonna be hard for a few of you to swallow...
but hte kid is the real deal.

He has miles to go...
but he aint gonna be a rookie next year.

[silkamilkamonico]

I just don't see the talent in Ayers. A HUGE problem with this defense is lack of effort and Ayers is, play in and play out, one of the worst offenders.

I just disagree. Demarcus Ware was absolutely pathetic until he adjusted to the speed of the game. The thing with Ayers is he makes some incredible plays at times where your just like, "where the hell did that come from", like today when he busted into the backfield with the olinemen hanging all over him and tackled McFadden for the loss of 3 yards.

[weazel]

our D is and ahs been horrible for years... I dont understand how players can be in the NFL when they don't know how to tackle.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Tebow will do fine.

He had some great throws today.

He took the snaps from under center just fine.

He stood in the pocket well.

He has escapability.

It was his first game.

he is gonna get better.

A new era has begun.

[spikerman]

I just disagree. Demarcus Ware was absolutely pathetic until he adjusted to the speed of the game. The thing with Ayers is he makes some incredible plays at times where your just like, "where the hell did that come from", like today when he busted into the backfield with the olinemen hanging all over him and tackled McFadden for the loss of 3 yards.

I was watching the game with a buddy of mine although I didn't say anything to him about my belief in Ayers' lack of effort he pointed it out to me. He said, "Who's 56 - that guy isn't even trying". Not that that proves anything, but it shows me that I'm not just seeing things. Right now, I can't think of anybody on the defense worth keeping. That includes Champ because the Broncos should encourage him to go to a place where he would stand a snowball's chance of winning something.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I think Champ is gonna sign and stay...
he said he wants to play with the kid.

We'll see in due time.

This new era changes everything.

The free agents are going to WANT to come here.

Denver is a GREAT city.
This aint Detroit or Philadelphia.

I have high hopes...

[jhildebrand]

lol

I expect a competitive game against the Texans...
possibly a win.

It's gonna be hard for a few of you to swallow...
but hte kid is the real deal.

He has miles to go...
but he aint gonna be a rookie next year.

I expect Tebow to play well against Houston. I hope he can find a way to knock SD out of the playoffs in the finale.

I just felt the FAs chomping the bit to come here a bit premature. This team is a mess on D and ST's. The FO is a mess. We don't know what the HC or GM looks like. That will have more say on FA's coming here than Tebow. If Tebow plays lights out the last two games it will obviously help.

Now all we need to do is make sure Orton's ribs stay sore. You know what I mean, PD? You up for the task?

[jhildebrand]

"Who's 56 - that guy isn't even trying".

2 non bronco fans made the same observation here and one of them was a girl (no offense) who admittedly knows nothing about football.

Ayers was taken to task last week following the game by Sandy Clough.

The guy is mailing it in.

[Krugan]

still wouldnt be something i would consider being a "hot spot" landing zone for a established head coach.

This team is still a HUGE mess.

Not sold on the kid either, but its hard to know when the playcalling seemed to have his hands tied.

I will say it was fun to see one of our QB's showing emotion and fight. No knock on orton, but KO doesnt seem to lead with the enthusiam Tebow does.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I expect Tebow to play well against Houston. I hope he can find a way to knock SD out of the playoffs in the finale.

I just felt the FAs chomping the bit to come here a bit premature. This team is a mess on D and ST's. The FO is a mess. We don't know what the HC or GM looks like. That will have more say on FA's coming here than Tebow. If Tebow plays lights out the last two games it will obviously help.

Now all we need to do is make sure Orton's ribs stay sore. You know what I mean, PD? You up for the task?

I thinkl Orton is now the official backup.

Is there any doubt?

[jhildebrand]

I thinkl Orton is now the official backup.

Is there any doubt?

The only way he isn't is if Bowlen gets real nervous about paying for the #2 draft pick!

I don't think Orton sticks around as a back up. I have a feeling the team will try to move him in the offseason because of his 1 year deal and go into next season with Tebow and Quinn as the backup.

[Krugan]

I thinkl Orton is now the official backup.

Is there any doubt?

Yes there is doubt.

Most likely you wont win games with your QBs hands tied PD.

We cant run the ball well enough to expect it to carry us anywhere.

Oakland stacked the box and shut us down.

There were plays to be made in the passing game, but we didnt open it up. Whether that is because Timah cant make the passes, doesnt the depth of the playbook in his head, or the coaching staff is just being conservative to be conservative, i dont know.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Yes there is doubt.

Most likely you wont win games with your QBs hands tied PD.

We cant run the ball well enough to expect it to carry us anywhere.

Oakland stacked the box and shut us down.

There were plays to be made in the passing game, but we didnt open it up. Whether that is because Timah cant make the passes, doesnt the depth of the playbook in his head, or the coaching staff is just being conservative to be conservative, i dont know.

Wow.

You and I could not see it any differently.

Orton will not take another snap this season.

I was thrilled to see the talent Tebow displayed.

MCD's old staff, playbook system are headed to the scrap heap.

I doubt TT "can't make the passes" and so the coaches didn't call those plays.

I think it was horrible coaching... plain and simple...
they were after all... trained by Mcd who never got creative at all.

[Northman]

Good to see there hasnt been an overreaction. lmao

[Cugel]

not sure that he had all that great a day. at least passing.

He was certainly not allowed to pass the ball when we needed to .

want to talk about conservative play calling. this was the worst I have seen since maybe reeves.

The conservative play-calling was designed to PROTECT Tebow in his first start. It was a GOOD thing!

When you take a brand new Porche 911 off the lot, you do NOT immediately take it out on the track and try to drive at 180 mph! You will blow the engine that way!

The Broncos eased Tebow in.

Why are you people mad that Denver LOST the game? It's GREAT! They lost and all the other teams competing for a draft pick WON! :beer:

IT's all GOOD people! Tebow shined in his opening, throwing the ball better than expected. And Denver set themselves up for the #2 pick in the draft!

He has a long way to go, but he's shown ability as well as leadership. The final two games give him a perfect chance to improve his passing.

Probably TOO good. I'm worried that he might just launch the team on a WINNING streak and ruin Denver's draft position! Hopefully, the conservative play-calling will continue.

We dodged a BULLET people! Time to celebrate, not complain! I feel like buying Studesville a beer! :beer:

[gregbroncs]

Actually OAK has a pretty good DL. Not sure it was all just our oline.

The D looked good when it did not stink.

And they knew that Denver would not even attempt to beat them passing the ball. Tebow looked pretty good for hell's sake give him a god damn shot to get us back in the game. If he failed so what, our season's over anyway.

[gregbroncs]

The conservative play-calling was designed to PROTECT Tebow in his first start. It was a GOOD thing!

When you take a brand new Porche 911 off the lot, you do NOT immediately take it out on the track and try to drive at 180 mph! You will blow the engine that way!

The Broncos eased Tebow in.

Why are you people mad that Denver LOST the game? It's GREAT! They lost and all the other teams competing for a draft pick WON! :beer:

IT's all GOOD people! Tebow shined in his opening, throwing the ball better than expected. And Denver set themselves up for the #2 pick in the draft!

He has a long way to go, but he's shown ability as well as leadership. The final two games give him a perfect chance to improve his passing.

Probably TOO good. I'm worried that he might just launch the team on a WINNING streak and ruin Denver's draft position! Hopefully, the conservative play-calling will continue.

We dodged a BULLET people! Time to celebrate, not complain! I feel like buying Studesville a beer! :beer:

Good point maybe the coaches were told to make sure we don't win again this year. It sure looked like it at times today.

[TXBRONC]

I'm concerned that the coaches never had him throw the 10 yard crossing pattern. That's a staple of an NFL playbook, yet every throw Tebow made needed to have air under it with the exception of screens and one "out" pattern to Lloyd (I think). Either they don't trust TT to throw the ball with zip or the playcalling was even worse than I first thought (which would be VERY difficult).

It wasn't any big secret that they would try and keep the game plan as simple as they could in order to protect Tebow. My hope is that if he gets to start next week that they will give him a little more to chew on.

[TXBRONC]

The conservative play-calling was designed to PROTECT Tebow in his first start. It was a GOOD thing!

When you take a brand new Porche 911 off the lot, you do NOT immediately take it out on the track and try to drive at 180 mph! You will blow the engine that way!

The Broncos eased Tebow in.

Why are you people mad that Denver LOST the game? It's GREAT! They lost and all the other teams competing for a draft pick WON! :beer:

IT's all GOOD people! Tebow shined in his opening, throwing the ball better than expected. And Denver set themselves up for the #2 pick in the draft!

He has a long way to go, but he's shown ability as well as leadership. The final two games give him a perfect chance to improve his passing.

Probably TOO good. I'm worried that he might just launch the team on a WINNING streak and ruin Denver's draft position! Hopefully, the conservative play-calling will continue.

We dodged a BULLET people! Time to celebrate, not complain! I feel like buying Studesville a beer! :beer:

I was upset that Denver lost because I hate seeing them lose. However I do see the silver lining.

[spikerman]

I was hoping the coaches would treat these last three games like "preaseason" games. That means evaluating players to see what they can do and to see who is still playing hard. The only disappointment that I really have after the game is that the coaches didn't allow TT to make more throws, just to see if he could make them. I don't mind them reeling in the playbook and, in fact, I expected it. I just think they need to see what throws TT is capable of making before next season. By limiting him so much they leave some questions unanswered.

[I Eat Staples]

Completely disagree. Unless Tebow completely lights it up these next two games, most big name coaches aren't going to want that type of QB as the future.

[Lonestar]

I was hoping the coaches would treat these last three games like "preaseason" games. That means evaluating players to see what they can do and to see who is still playing hard. The only disappointment that I really have after the game is that the coaches didn't allow TT to make more throws, just to see if he could make them. I don't mind them reeling in the playbook and, in fact, I expected it. I just think they need to see what throws TT is capable of making before next season. By limiting him so much they leave some questions unanswered.

It only answers YOUR questions the coaching staff as well as all teh way up to Pat know what passes he can throw.

When he is practicing they are allowing him to make throws.

That would be silly not to..

They know what they have and should know how to bring it along as the need to.

They know.

[jhildebrand]

I was hoping the coaches would treat these last three games like "preaseason" games. That means evaluating players to see what they can do and to see who is still playing hard. The only disappointment that I really have after the game is that the coaches didn't allow TT to make more throws, just to see if he could make them. I don't mind them reeling in the playbook and, in fact, I expected it. I just think they need to see what throws TT is capable of making before next season. By limiting him so much they leave some questions unanswered.

They did say at the beginning of the game that Tebow had a lot of input as to what plays and kind of game plan he would be comfortable with. I think it is much on Tebow as the coaches.

I bet we see much more next week! According to the Post Tebow is starting the next two games

"But healthy or not, Orton was not going to start the final two games at home. The plan is for Tebow to start next week against Houston and Jan. 2 against San Diego."

[Tned]

It only answers YOUR questions the coaching staff as well as all teh way up to Pat know what passes he can throw.

When he is practicing they are allowing him to make throws.

That would be silly not to..

They know what they have and should know how to bring it along as the need to.

They know.

Like they knew with Hillis? :confused:

[Watchthemiddle]

WOW one game and the bandwagoners are out and about...:laugh:

[Watchthemiddle]

Like they knew with Hillis? :confused:

What's the topic of this thread?? Coaches, Tebow, etc. or Hillis??

Thanks

[TXBRONC]

They did say at the beginning of the game that Tebow had a lot of input as to what plays and kind of game plan he would be comfortable with. I think it is much on Tebow as the coaches.

I bet we see much more next week! According to the Post Tebow is starting the next two games

"But healthy or not, Orton was not going to start the final two games at home. The plan is for Tebow to start next week against Houston and Jan. 2 against San Diego."

Maybe some of the things that Tebow said he was comfortable with McCoy didn't put into the offensive plan. Tim seems to be comfortable rolling out and throwing the ball on the move but none of the plays that were called had him doing that.

[Tned]

What's the topic of this thread?? Coaches, Tebow, etc. or Hillis??

Thanks

You, mister "come into a thread on one of the few forums where I'm not banned and post something trollish" are going to talk to me about being off topic?

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[Krugan]

Wow.

You and I could not see it any differently.

Orton will not take another snap this season.

I was thrilled to see the talent Tebow displayed.

MCD's old staff, playbook system are headed to the scrap heap.

I doubt TT "can't make the passes" and so the coaches didn't call those plays.

I think it was horrible coaching... plain and simple...
they were after all... trained by Mcd who never got creative at all.

I think we do see eye to eye. The kid is a gamer, he plays hard and has the fire I love to see.

That being said, we dont know if he can make the passes or not, so it does lend to doubt.

Im pretty sure Orton wont be starting anymore and im fine with that. But if they were serious about winning these last 2 games and that was the only goal, then just due to game plan issues, Orton would be the best bet.

That pains me alot to say it, although after watching the play calling, the hand will be held and that doesnt always lead to "best chance to win".

[Ravage!!!]

:lol:

[Ravage!!!]

Hmmm... I saw a QB that likes to tuck and run.

[Warhawk]

I was hoping the coaches would treat these last three games like "preaseason" games. That means evaluating players to see what they can do and to see who is still playing hard.

This might be effective *if* the coaching staff wasn't a bunch of dead men walking. Every player knows that Studes, McCoy, Wink, etc are all gone at the end of the season, so there's no pressing need to "audition" for them.

The new leadership that comes in will look at the season as a whole, rather than focusing on these last few games.

[Tned]

Hmmm... I saw a QB that likes to tuck and run.

Let's not overlook the fact that Oakland is 3rd in sacks and 4th in passing defense. We weren't able to expose their weakness, which was against the run (probably because we were VERY predictable with when we ran), which left us in a lot of third and longs where the team with the third most sacks could pin their ears back and rush.

[bcbronc]

It only answers YOUR questions the coaching staff as well as all teh way up to Pat know what passes he can throw.

When he is practicing they are allowing him to make throws.

That would be silly not to..

They know what they have and should know how to bring it along as the need to.

They know.

They do know, which imo makes the play calling today a concern. Were they not allowing Tebow to throw the ball because they didn't have confidence in his ability to be successful doing so? I have to assume so; how else do you explain QB draws every third and medium to long? The only explanation at this point is the coaches were protecting their QB.

I really don't get the whole "Tebow shined" mentality. Really? We've fallen so far we feel an 8 for 16 for 138 performance is "shining"? Granted, the TD run was a thing of beauty, but it was also one of only 2 runs that really helped the team. Take out the 40 yard TD run, and he rushed 7 times for 38 yards, most of which resulted in punts (not all his fault, crappy play calling is as much to blame).

But 50% completion rate isn't "shining" even for a rookie. And I don't recall a single time where Tebow managed to extend the play to come up with a big play. Even his one TD pass was a bad decision thrown into double coverage that should have been pick if the DB didn't drop the ball (that is offset a bit by probably his best throw of the day being dropped in the endzone by Ball).

I sure didn't see a shining performance. i saw one great run surrounded by a bunch of meh. It was a tough game to rate his performance due to the play calling, but imo it's likely the play calling is a direct result from what the coaches have seen in practice.

I'm not saying we should stick with Orton--Orton has shown his early season success was a combination of receivers bailing him out and smoke and mirrors. He's not the guy. But Tebow isn't going to win many games when he has as many rushing attempts as pass completions.

[spikerman]

I was not "unhappy" with Tebow's performance. In fact, he was better than I thought he would be. That's not an idictment of Tebow, it's just a fact that most QBs (especially rookies) struggle mightily in their first starts. I was disappointed that the coaches didn't give him a chance to throw some passes with some "zip" on them. He throws a nice deep ball with lots of air, but so did Brian Griese. I want to see some passes where he has to put some mustard on the ball to make sure he can get it there. He didn't get much of a chance to do that. I think there was one "out" pattern that he threw well, but the ball didn't seem to have a lot on it. It may have been that he didn't really put much into it or that's all he has. My complaint is that the coaches didn't give him an opportunity to prove it either way.

[Jake Klug]

I wont knock Tebow's performance in anyway. However, I think the OP is jumping the gun a bit. Let's see what the next two games bring.

Whats supposed to happen the next two games? If Tebow has a bad game, does that mean he cant play?

[jhildebrand]

Whats supposed to happen the next two games? If Tebow has a bad game, does that mean he cant play?

Nope. Not at all. I am just saying for me, I am not going or willing to make any bold proclamations about the guy based on ONE game with all the turmoil surrounding the team.

I like the game the guy had yesterday. I said it before he played what I was looking for (posted in this thread as well) and was beyond pleased.

I would just rather take a wait and see appoach.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Whats supposed to happen the next two games? If Tebow has a bad game, does that mean he cant play?

It means he's human. :nod:

[PAINTERDAVE]

I expect he will throw an interception.
He will struggle.
He will also have some level of success.

I think we have a real chance of beating the Texans.

[Ravage!!!]

They do know, which imo makes the play calling today a concern. Were they not allowing Tebow to throw the ball because they didn't have confidence in his ability to be successful doing so? I have to assume so; how else do you explain QB draws every third and medium to long? The only explanation at this point is the coaches were protecting their QB.

I really don't get the whole "Tebow shined" mentality. Really? We've fallen so far we feel an 8 for 16 for 138 performance is "shining"? Granted, the TD run was a thing of beauty, but it was also one of only 2 runs that really helped the team. Take out the 40 yard TD run, and he rushed 7 times for 38 yards, most of which resulted in punts (not all his fault, crappy play calling is as much to blame).

But 50% completion rate isn't "shining" even for a rookie. And I don't recall a single time where Tebow managed to extend the play to come up with a big play. Even his one TD pass was a bad decision thrown into double coverage that should have been pick if the DB didn't drop the ball (that is offset a bit by probably his best throw of the day being dropped in the endzone by Ball).

I sure didn't see a shining performance. i saw one great run surrounded by a bunch of meh. It was a tough game to rate his performance due to the play calling, but imo it's likely the play calling is a direct result from what the coaches have seen in practice.

I'm not saying we should stick with Orton--Orton has shown his early season success was a combination of receivers bailing him out and smoke and mirrors. He's not the guy. But Tebow isn't going to win many games when he has as many rushing attempts as pass completions.

I agree with this. It was NOT a "shining performance" in the least.

We can't judge Tebow on one game at all. But this wasn't one that, if you step back and look at it, was a bright spot. People get blinded by the one run. Take that away, and.... well..... wasn't very good at all.

Its one game. Not judging him...just being honest.

[zbeg]

We can't judge Tebow on one game at all. But this wasn't one that, if you step back and look at it, was a bright spot. People get blinded by the one run. Take that away, and.... well..... wasn't very good at all.

Its one game. Not judging him...just being honest.


What didn't you like about the performance? He was handcuffed by the playcalling, but he had some very nice throws and essentially two TD passes (the dropped TD pass couldn't have been in a better spot), and he didn't look like he was making any egregious errors out there.

The biggest question about Tebow was his mechanics, and he's already shown significant improvement in that area. The second biggest question is his ability to read defenses, which you're just not going to figure out from any rookie after one game anyway.

But from a rookie making his first start, what is the ceiling of realistic expectations?

I agree that if this is his peak, then we're in trouble. But for someone whose value is mostly in upside at this point (as is the case with all rookies, especially the highly-drafted ones), he's given plenty to believe that he's on a good path to realizing his potential.

I'm finding fewer and fewer reasons to think that he won't be a successful player at this point. He's done everything possible to maximize his chances of success, and he has the requisite physical talent to be an elite NFL quarterback in terms of size, speed, and arm strength.

He's not Moses Moreno (whose footwork was among the best coaches had ever seen), a guy who had the mechanics but not the physical talent. You can fix mechanics if the guy is willing to work on fixing them. You can't fix talent. Tebow has the talent and the work ethic, plus he's not a headcase. I search for indicators that he won't be successful, and it's getting difficult to find anything substantial.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Rookie debut..
at hostile black hole..
in the mud and rain

No interceptions
No sacks (were there?)
no fumbles
no mis handled snaps

Several high spots (Rush for TD was one)

Hamstrung by bad play calling and lack of run game
Defense puts him in a hole to start at 7 point deficit

Still led by 17 to 14 early... led at te half..
was in the game until the 4th Quarter.

Dropped TD pass by Ball.

Competitive in the loss... preserving the good draft position.

Maybe it was not shiny...
but it certainly was not dull.

[jhildebrand]

Take that away, and.... well..... wasn't very good at all.

In all fairness, that argument was always used with Cutler. The fact is Tebow made that run. He is in the Broncos history books for longest run for a TD by a QB in his first game.

That's like saying take away the Eddie Royal returns against SD and the game sucked. The fact is Royal had the returns. Also, the other side of the argument could be, if Ball holds on to that easy catch in the endzone Tebow's game looks MUCH better.

The announcers made it clear that the game plan and plays were decided with heavy feedback from Tebow. Many here want to crucify Studesville and McCoy for the game call. I want to see if Tebow can handle a bigger selection of plays this week and see if he can improve on last week.

Was it a shining performance? NO. Did he show some flash? YES! More importantly, down by 7 this team actually fought and traded scores.

In the end, we should all hope Tebow can be more than serviceable seeing how-this team wont be able to trade him for any real value AND there is a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tied up in him.

I would rather rebuild around him and if it becomes necessary to insert a new QB, it be more akin to Rivers replacing Brees or Flacco/Ryan/Rodgers stepping into a ready made team where the pressure isnt entirely on them to win like it was with Carr in Houston, Akili in Cincinatti, Stafford in Detroit, etc....

[T.K.O.]

we still lost to the mother ******* raiders !:mad:
but tebow does show promise:beer:

[arapaho2]

I agree with this. It was NOT a "shining performance" in the least.

We can't judge Tebow on one game at all. But this wasn't one that, if you step back and look at it, was a bright spot. People get blinded by the one run. Take that away, and.... well..... wasn't very good at all.

Its one game. Not judging him...just being honest.


rav again thats looking at the stats...yeah aside from a couple plays he wasnt that good

but....digest the fact he practably never got any meaningful snaps in practise all season...the fact he's a rookie with very little time in the starting offense....and the fact it was against a stacked and comeing dline

then look at the intangibles...the fire!!!...the enthusiasm even when down...the natual leadership...the fact he had the whole team fired up and behind him......the dude got something and thats clearly evident

opposed to ...downtrodden orton slinking to the bench

elway had many faults when young...accuracy...no touch on the ball
but he had fire...leadership and a desire to lay it all on the line to win a game

tebow shows that also

he may not be the picture perfect qb...but i think he showed glimpses of something great just in the way the team responded

[Ravage!!!]

rav again thats looking at the stats...yeah aside from a couple plays he wasnt that good

but....digest the fact he practably never got any meaningful snaps in practise all season...the fact he's a rookie with very little time in the starting offense....and the fact it was against a stacked and comeing dline

then look at the intangibles...the fire!!!...the enthusiasm even when down...the natual leadership...the fact he had the whole team fired up and behind him......the dude got something and thats clearly evident

opposed to ...downtrodden orton slinking to the bench

elway had many faults when young...accuracy...no touch on the ball
but he had fire...leadership and a desire to lay it all on the line to win a game

tebow shows that also

he may not be the picture perfect qb...but i think he showed glimpses of something great just in the way the team responded


Look. I think the play calling was absurd. It was horrendous... and although Tebow's run was great, the rest of his runs were bad.

I saw a QB that "tucked" the ball when he got pressure. Not one that moved to buy time. Did you watch the MNF game? That QB for Minnesota wasn't even drafted to be a QB, his name wasn't Tebow, hasn't had much practice as QB not to mention with the first team, and his performance on the field was equiv to Tebow's.

I'm NOT down on Tebow. But I watched the game again, and my first hypothesis is true... sunshine and roses do NOT blow out Tebow's ass, despite what Painterdave will make you believe.

I have high hopes for Tebow, but this game did NOT prove anything to me. It was nice to see him in the game, and its nice to move forward, FINALLY, with a QB that should have been playing weeks ago.

But I had high-hopes for Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, Scheff, Royal and Clady.

Despite being a Shanahan fan, I had high hopes for McD.

Despite not believing in drafting a RB in the first round, I had high hopes for Moreno.

So you'll excuse me if I temper my enthusiasm and hopes from a project QB that showed me EXACTLY what I expected to see from him, a run first QB (yes, I really DO know the play calling sucked balls).

No one doubted that Tebow's passes would go forward, and despite that idiotic retard that was commentating the game, Tebow did NOT answer the questions on whether or not he's able to pass the ball WITH this league. We saw Orton throw the ball a ton, and throw LOTS of nice passes and make LOTS of nice plays. So Tebow throwing the ball in a forward direction, and getting lucky on that TD pass, doesn't prove that he can "pass just fine" in my book.

Let me be clear, I'm NOT down on Tebow. I'm excited for the future and TRULY TRULY hope he lives up to everything. But him having enthusiasm doesn't prove anything to me. Rudy had lots of enthusiasm and fire.

But this game wasn't a great performance unless you simply want to SEE it that way. If you are standing back and watching the game, its a long run, and terrible play calling. Its nothing, yet, to get me to say "we are set at QB." Not yet.

I know that watching was more exciting to watch than with Orton, because I've never been sold on Orton....ever. So it was exciting to see him on the field, and I will continue being excited to see more from him. But a lot of the hype on these boards abotu his play, is PURELY nothing more than seeing something different, and the florida fans blowing things out of proportion as to the actual performance on the field.

[arapaho2]

Look. I think the play calling was absurd. It was horrendous... and although Tebow's run was great, the rest of his runs were bad.

I saw a QB that "tucked" the ball when he got pressure. Not one that moved to buy time. Did you watch the MNF game? That QB for Minnesota wasn't even drafted to be a QB, his name wasn't Tebow, hasn't had much practice as QB not to mention with the first team, and his performance on the field was equiv to Tebow's.

I'm NOT down on Tebow. But I watched the game again, and my first hypothesis is true... sunshine and roses do NOT blow out Tebow's ass, despite what Painterdave will make you believe.

I have high hopes for Tebow, but this game did NOT prove anything to me. It was nice to see him in the game, and its nice to move forward, FINALLY, with a QB that should have been playing weeks ago.

But I had high-hopes for Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, Scheff, Royal and Clady.

Despite being a Shanahan fan, I had high hopes for McD.

Despite not believing in drafting a RB in the first round, I had high hopes for Moreno.

So you'll excuse me if I temper my enthusiasm and hopes from a project QB that showed me EXACTLY what I expected to see from him, a run first QB (yes, I really DO know the play calling sucked balls).

No one doubted that Tebow's passes would go forward, and despite that idiotic retard that was commentating the game, Tebow did NOT answer the questions on whether or not he's able to pass the ball WITH this league. We saw Orton throw the ball a ton, and throw LOTS of nice passes and make LOTS of nice plays. So Tebow throwing the ball in a forward direction, and getting lucky on that TD pass, doesn't prove that he can "pass just fine" in my book.

Let me be clear, I'm NOT down on Tebow. I'm excited for the future and TRULY TRULY hope he lives up to everything. But him having enthusiasm doesn't prove anything to me. Rudy had lots of enthusiasm and fire.

But this game wasn't a great performance unless you simply want to SEE it that way. If you are standing back and watching the game, its a long run, and terrible play calling. Its nothing, yet, to get me to say "we are set at QB." Not yet.

I know that watching was more exciting to watch than with Orton, because I've never been sold on Orton....ever. So it was exciting to see him on the field, and I will continue being excited to see more from him. But a lot of the hype on these boards abotu his play, is PURELY nothing more than seeing something different, and the florida fans blowing things out of proportion as to the actual performance on the field.

who said anything about all that?...im simply saying for what he was given...the dude preformed...im not saying he's the next great thing based on one game

im saying i seen some flashes of a franchise qb....the intangebles is what throws him over the top...guys wanna play for him...with him


as for webbs game being equivelent to tebows...my question is...did you watch the game?

webb...15 -26...129 yards...0tds...2ints
rush.....6-38yrds...1 td

tebow...8 -16....138yards...1td...0ints (another td dropped)
rush...8- 78 yards 1td

[Ravage!!!]

who said anything about all that?...im simply saying for what he was given...the dude preformed...im not saying he's the next great thing based on one game

im saying i seen some flashes of a franchise qb....the intangebles is what throws him over the top...guys wanna play for him...with him


as for webbs game being equivelent to tebows...my question is...did you watch the game?

webb...15 -26...129 yards...0tds...2ints
rush.....6-38yrds...1 td

tebow...8 -16....138yards...1td...0ints (another td dropped)
rush...8- 78 yards 1td

arap... I WATCHED the game, thus why I didn't simply pull out stats!! :lol:

The game is more than stats. Its actually seeing what is going on. Webb's play was just as equiv as Tebow's. I loved taht 40 yrd run, but take that early play out, and what do you have?

The Vikings were going against Chicago's defense, in TERRIBLY cold weather, with No Adrian Peterson. We were in LA.

Not to mention, Webb wasn't drafted in the first round, hasn't had reps the ENTIRE YEAR as QB because he wasn't even drafted to be a QB in the NFL....yet his completion percentage is higher.

Did you watch the game, or just pull up the stats to compare? Like I said. I'm not down on Tebow in the least, but lets not exaggerate what was actually on the field.

[I Eat Staples]

I agree with this. It was NOT a "shining performance" in the least.

We can't judge Tebow on one game at all. But this wasn't one that, if you step back and look at it, was a bright spot. People get blinded by the one run. Take that away, and.... well..... wasn't very good at all.

Its one game. Not judging him...just being honest.

I think this does a good job of keeping things in perspective.

The only comment I have at this point is, I look forward to getting to watch the game against the Texans, as it will be my first time watching the Broncos with Tebow as a starter since I had the misfortune of missing his first start. Had to get your first start a week before Christmas huh Tim?

If he goes on to be a star I'm going to be pissed I didn't see his first NFL start. :tsk::mad::D

[PAINTERDAVE]

Look at what the Raiders players said about his performance...
there is a thread.

Those guys are in one of the best positions to critque his performance.

It was a lot of good comments. Check the thread.

[I Eat Staples]

Look at what the Raiders players said about his performance...
there is a thread.

Those guys are in one of the best positions to critque his performance.

It was a lot of good comments. Check the thread.

Let's be logical, what are they supposed to say? Most players these days don't rip their opponents after a game.

[TXBRONC]

Let's be logical, what are they supposed to say? Most players these days don't rip their opponents after a game.

Are you kidding? Raiders defenders didn't have to say anything nice about Tebow.

[I Eat Staples]

Are you kidding? Raiders defenders didn't have to say anything nice Tebow.

If a reporter asks a Raiders defender about Tebow, he's not going to say anything bad. If he did, it would make headlines. There's a reason for that: it doesn't happen every game...

[TXBRONC]

If a reporter asks a Raiders defender about Tebow, he's not going to say anything bad. If he did, it would make headlines. There's a reason for that: it doesn't happen every game...

Ah bull, they had nothing to gain by complimenting Tebow. It would be headline for one day big deal, especially sense the series is complete.

[Dzone]

"Rick Dennison is the smartest guy in the NFL"....

[PAINTERDAVE]

I just get sick of hearing .."experts say Tebow is.."

I think the guys who played against him on Sunday are in a position
to make the best assesment of his actual play in the NFL right now.

Thier words can be taken with a grain of salt... but they can also be insightful.

[Ravage!!!]

Not if they are taken with a grain of salt. How is it that those watching have less of an opinion than those simply playing against him? They aren't going to say something bad, why would they? Whats to gain? The players on the Raiders are players, and if asked directly by a reporter, they will compliment him. Not exactly something to really count as any kind of indication. Its really not.

[Ravage!!!]

Are you kidding? Raiders defenders didn't have to say anything nice about Tebow.


Ah bull, they had nothing to gain by complimenting Tebow. It would be headline for one day big deal, especially sense the series is complete.

I completely disagree TX. They had nothing to gain by bashing a guy on his first start. They won the game. Saying something negative about a person on the other team AFTER a game that you just won... rarely, RARELY, brings a negative comment unless its about a cheap hit.

[JaxBroncoGirl]

Oh, ok, I thought this thread was about HC and the possible attraction a good HC would like to take a look at. The last few post are only about Tebow. Come on guys, give it break about him, give him a fair chance. Quit splitting hairs. Look at what the Broncos can attract, Good drafting and FA we can really make a difference next year. I think we are on the upswing here. Anyway, I guess we should look at the name of my boat for next season "Will Sea".........................

[Dzone]

OK, Im liking these guys for HC- Rick Dennison, Jim Harbaugh, Ron Rivera...would be great to get Kubiak as OC, but not HC

[Lancane]

I just get sick of hearing .."experts say Tebow is.."

I think the guys who played against him on Sunday are in a position
to make the best assesment of his actual play in the NFL right now.

Thier words can be taken with a grain of salt... but they can also be insightful.

Dave, fact is the odds are stacked against him in more then one way, the mechanics everyone has mentioned, he still has his a lot of work ahead of him to be a true NFL quarterback. He's left handed, and as I've mentioned and so have others, there have only been a few successful left handed quarterbacks at the pro-level. And he's also a Heisman winner, that is almost a curse for quarterbacks, not one Heisman winning quarterback in the modern era has been successful in the NFL, that's a fact. That is one award that if I was a quarterback I wouldn't want even being in the voting for, especially if I wanted to go pro, it's cursed. Then there is the Gator Curse, of all SEC schools, the Florida Gator's produce more busts then any other big-time Collegiate Football Program, especially at the quarterback position. So, yes...some of us have concerns that he's not the future of this team, that he isn't capable of being a franchise quarterback...we'll give him a chance, but even a statisticion might say, whoa the odds are not good at all.

Is he the next Steve Young or the next Steve Spurrier?

Time will tell, but some are rushing head first to believe he is the real deal without thinking about the real possibility that he could be a bust, even with so many things pointing to him possibly being just that...buy into what you want to Dave, the same goes for the rest of the fans, I am going to be cautious before anointing him anything and there is a real chance that a new head coach and his staff will look at it the same way as me and may choose to go another direction. So, with that said...I think a defensive minded Head Coach might be willing to go along with Tebow as the quarterback for now and give him time compared to an offensive minded Head Coach who might not buy into him at all, and I believe if that is how the organization feels, Ron Rivera is the obvious choice IMHO.

[Dirk]

not one Heisman winning quarterback in the modern era has been successful in the NFL, that's a fact

Well, yes and no.

Bradford - which all signs point to him being a pretty damn good QB in this league.
Palmer - He is an NFL QB. Unfortunately he hasn't been the same since his injury. I think it messed with his head.
Testarverde - Although he bounced around a lot, he was a decent NFL QB.
Flutie - If not for his height he would have done quite well. No one really wanted to give him the chance.

[Juriga72]

Heisman winners DO seem to play well at least ONCE a year in the NFL-
Troy Smith
Sam Bradford

Where do I remember them playing well this year..... where..........

[I Eat Staples]

The Heisman isn't cursed, it's just a great example of how skill sets that make great college QBs do not make great pro QBs.

[Juriga72]

The Heisman isn't cursed, it's just a great example of how skill sets that make great college QBs do not make great pro QBs.

No... BUT some people tend to die near winners for a number of reasons LOL. Can I say that?

It does hold to a very high % of utter over-hyped failures tho.

[Lancane]

The Heisman isn't cursed, it's just a great example of how skill sets that make great college QBs do not make great pro QBs.

Actually a lot of people do consider the Heisman cursed, look at what has happened to 75% of those gone pro who've won the damn thing in the modern era...it's actually pretty pathetic.

[Lancane]

Well, yes and no.

Bradford - which all signs point to him being a pretty damn good QB in this league.
Palmer - He is an NFL QB. Unfortunately he hasn't been the same since his injury. I think it messed with his head.
Testarverde - Although he bounced around a lot, he was a decent NFL QB.
Flutie - If not for his height he would have done quite well. No one really wanted to give him the chance.

Yeah, that's an impressive list Dirk, so who from that list has a shot at the NFL HOF?

:lol:

[Dirk]

Yeah, that's an impressive list Dirk, so who from that list has a shot at the NFL HOF?

:lol:

I didn't say they were elite. :lol:

The statement was:
not one Heisman winning quarterback in the modern era has been successful in the NFL, that's a fact

Which I showed not to be the case. There ARE/WERE QBs that were successful. The only one on that list that hasn't been successful is Bradford because this is his rookie year. ;)

[dogfish]

bradford's gonna be a friggin' beast. . .


and i still think AD shoulda got it his freshman year. . .

[vandammage13]

Well, yes and no.

Bradford - which all signs point to him being a pretty damn good QB in this league.
Palmer - He is an NFL QB. Unfortunately he hasn't been the same since his injury. I think it messed with his head.
Testarverde - Although he bounced around a lot, he was a decent NFL QB.
Flutie - If not for his height he would have done quite well. No one really wanted to give him the chance.

You forgot to put Tebow on the list!!....:2thumbs:

[GEM]

I think this does a good job of keeping things in perspective.

The only comment I have at this point is, I look forward to getting to watch the game against the Texans, as it will be my first time watching the Broncos with Tebow as a starter since I had the misfortune of missing his first start. Had to get your first start a week before Christmas huh Tim?

If he goes on to be a star I'm going to be pissed I didn't see his first NFL start. :tsk::mad::D

Yea....you could have missed a VERY important day in Broncos history. Shame shame. :tsk:


:D

[GEM]

bradford's gonna be a friggin' beast. . .


and i still think AD shoulda got it his freshman year. . .

If they can get some receivers around Bradford, he's going to be fun to watch. He surprised me. The 2 surgeries to his shoulder really had me doubting his success in the NFL.

[dogfish]

If they can get some receivers around Bradford, he's going to be fun to watch. He surprised me. The 2 surgeries to his shoulder really had me doubting his success in the NFL.

i think he's the best QB prospect i can remember in the time that i've really paid attention to the draft-- he's already fun to watch, he's made them better even without any legit receivers (he had mark clayton playing maybe the best ball of his pro career before he got hurt). . .

i desperately wanted us to hire spagnuolo, and was hoping against hope after we traded cutty that we'd stockpile picks and go after bradford. . . i am going to enjoy watching their careers develop, and won't be the slightest bit surprised if they get that club back to the super bowl. . .

[Jake Klug]

Actually a lot of people do consider the Heisman cursed, look at what has happened to 75% of those gone pro who've won the damn thing in the modern era...it's actually pretty pathetic.

Its not so much cursed as much as its not an accurate reflection of "the best player in college football", which is what its supposed to be.

[I Eat Staples]

Its not so much cursed as much as its not an accurate reflection of "the best player in college football", which is what its supposed to be.

No, it is an accurate reflection of the best player in college football, being the best player in college football just doesn't make you the best pro prospect in college football.

[I Eat Staples]

Yea....you could have missed a VERY important day in Broncos history. Shame shame. :tsk:


:D

Well if it means Tebow becoming a superstar, I'll take one for the team. :salute:

[Medford Bronco]

not sure that he had all that great a day. at least passing.

He was certainly not allowed to pass the ball when we needed to .

want to talk about conservative play calling. this was the worst I have seen since maybe reeves.

I want him to pass the pass and see what he can do. Its not like any playoff postioning is depending on it. Let him earn his stripes and see what he has absorbed in his rookie year with reads etc.

[Lancane]

Its not so much cursed as much as its not an accurate reflection of "the best player in college football", which is what its supposed to be.

That may be Klug...but athletes are as superstitious as the villagers in a small hamlet in Romania, as are many fans. Curse is sometimes placed on to a term, item or place. Look at the Curse of the Bambino or the Madden Curse, the Heisman in regards to the modern era has had maybe two or three who've won it that went on to be successful, non of which are quarterbacks...so in a way the award is a curse.

[Lancane]

I want him to pass the pass and see what he can do. Its not like any playoff postioning is depending on it. Let him earn his stripes and see what he has absorbed in his rookie year with reads etc.

I'm not Anti-Tebow, and I understand the sentiment that many fans have in giving him a chance. I am simply stating that if we have a statistician on staff, who does take into consideration the odds against success and off what little we've seen or will see, then it is feesable for the next head coach and regime to want to go in another direction. Not sure about others, but who in the hell expected McNabb to be traded or Cutler for that matter?

And I think a defensive minded head coach may be willing to give him more of a chance then an offensive minded one would.

[dogfish]

I'm not Anti-Tebow, and I understand the sentiment that many fans have in giving him a chance. I am simply stating that if we have a statistician on staff, who does take into consideration the odds against success and off what little we've seen or will see, then it is feesable for the next head coach and regime to want to go in another direction. Not sure about others, but who in the hell expected McNabb to be traded or Cutler for that matter?

And I think a defensive minded head coach may be willing to give him more of a chance then an offensive minded one would.

statistician? we're hiring billy beane??

[Jake Klug]

That may be Klug...but athletes are as superstitious as the villagers in a small hamlet in Romania, as are many fans. Curse is sometimes placed on to a term, item or place. Look at the Curse of the Bambino or the Madden Curse, the Heisman in regards to the modern era has had maybe two or three who've won it that went on to be successful, non of which are quarterbacks...so in a way the award is a curse.

What does that tell you when their success rate drastically goes up when they don't pick a quarterback?

[JDL]

You know... Brady Quinn had a hell of a first game... look at him now... why are fans so damn anxious to judge Tebow? He isn't all the way to where he is ready to be judged... he was taken with the knowledge that it would take time for him, but fans just don't listen.

[bcbronc]

We need to start Quinn this week! see what the kid has got.

[PAINTERDAVE]

We need to start Quinn this week! see what the kid has got.

Huh?
You trolling or what?

[silkamilkamonico]

I think seeing Tebow the last 2 games we'll give us a great indication in what direction we will be going for the 2012 season.

[dogfish]

We need to start Quinn this week! see what the kid has got.

go back to canada with that junk, eh?!


:welcome:

[horsepig]

our D is and ahs been horrible for years... I dont understand how players can be in the NFL when they don't know how to tackle.

Yeah, and they have maybe the best tackler in the NFL in Champ. Don't the coaches and the rest of the defensive players see what this guy does in film studies?

[horsepig]

I think we do see eye to eye. The kid is a gamer, he plays hard and has the fire I love to see.

That being said, we dont know if he can make the passes or not, so it does lend to doubt.

Im pretty sure Orton wont be starting anymore and im fine with that. But if they were serious about winning these last 2 games and that was the only goal, then just due to game plan issues, Orton would be the best bet.

That pains me alot to say it, although after watching the play calling, the hand will be held and that doesnt always lead to "best chance to win".

After what we've seen the last 24 games how can ANYBODY AT ALL think Orton provides the "best chance to win"?

[Krugan]

After what we've seen the last 24 games how can ANYBODY AT ALL think Orton provides the "best chance to win"?

Just for the reasons I listed, if its a game planning issue and the best you can do is what we saw last week(from game planning) then the QB with the prior time under center would be your best chance.

Best chance is like vegas though, may find a high odds game, but most likely your still going to lose more than you win.

[horsepig]

That may be Klug...but athletes are as superstitious as the villagers in a small hamlet in Romania, as are many fans. Curse is sometimes placed on to a term, item or place. Look at the Curse of the Bambino or the Madden Curse, the Heisman in regards to the modern era has had maybe two or three who've won it that went on to be successful, non of which are quarterbacks...so in a way the award is a curse.

I'm very superstitious. I'll even wear the same undies the next day after a really good one.

[horsepig]

Naw, Krug, Orton just doesn,t have it. Even if it's not Tebow, we need somebody else with a little more, dare I say, elan?

[Sinthor]

We really should have had Tebow starting much earlier in the year. It's ridiculous that we didn't. I don't know if he'll "make it" or not, but it sure would have been nice to have a much clearer picture of that heading into the draft. I just don't think 3 games is enough, whether he lights it up or not, to determine this. Then we might have this BIG decision on a QB on our hands. Lots happens between now and the draft so like everyone else I'll have to wait and see. It DOES make me awfully nervous though to see everyone starting to get so high on a college kid who's had ONE great year though. Man, that's a BIG risk and player analysts are SO hit and miss on NFL success.