If the Draft were today.....

[Nickademus]

If the draft were today we would be picking #2 behind Carolina who also won today. This is only if we loose to Oakland(I hate the idea of cheering against our team, but are we really cheering against the Broncos, or for a better draft choice which means a better Broncos team?) or the draft happened before the game.

[Superchop 7]

It would be April.

Just sayin.

[Juriga72]

Heck..
How do you cheer for your team to lose tho. IDK, I would like that DE from Auburn

[Nickademus]

Heck..
How do you cheer for your team to lose tho. IDK, I would like that DE from Auburn

thats the hard part do your root for your team to win a meaningless game or do you root for your team to get a better draft pick and thus improve the team?

[Juriga72]

rd 1 Defense
rd 2 defense
rd 3 defense
r4-199 defense......

[nevcraw]

thats the hard part do your root for your team to win a meaningless game or do you root for your team to get a better draft pick and thus improve the team?

because a higher draft pick is a sure thing..

[underrated29]

rd 1 defense line-de/nt
rd 2 defense- de/nt/s
rd 3 defense- de/nt/s/db
r4-199 defense.except rb derrick loche.....





fixed.

[honz]

Go Raiders!

[CrazyHorse]

Nick Fairley here we come.

[dunk7]

because a higher draft pick is a sure thing..

Busts occur all over the draft...its all about getting the highest projected player. Which your logic, let's trade all of our picks for 7th rounders...no busts there.

[Cugel]

Not only is the beginning of the Tebow era, but Denver LOST and all the other teams competing with them in the draft WON! :beer:

Detroit beat the Bucs to go 4-10! :beer:
Cincinnati beat Cleveland to go 3-11!
Buffalo beat the Dolphins to go to 4-10!!

And finally, the Panthers beat Cardinals to go to 2-11! :beer:

And, here's the prize if the Broncos wind up with the #2 pick of the draft!



Da'Quan Bowers, Clemson

Ht: 6-5 Wt: 265 40: 4.8
Position: DT
Date of Birth: 02/23/1990

Entering his junior season with four career sacks, Bowers leads the country this year in that category with 16 while going against constant double teams. He also finished the season with 61 tackles, a forced fumble, and an interception.

Easily convertable from DE to DT and vice versa, but his height and current body type makes him into a perfect strongside defensive end prospect. Has a good motor off the ball and is strong getting up the field, though he is playing off of mostly sheer natural talent rather than technical prowess. Incredible athlete, as he shows in his running back film. Simply needs to become more consistent with what he shows in flashes off the edge.

This is the kind of DL Denver hasn't had since a young Trevor Pryce! He's absolutely certain to go in the top 5 and probably in the top 2. If Luck wasn't there he could be the first overall pick, just as Mario Williams was.

It's so CLOSE I can ALMOST TASTE IT!

Denver just NEVER gets the chance to draft this kind of sure fire prospect and now it's within reach.

All the Broncos have to do is lose out and it's in the BAG!

(I say: TIME TO START ORTON!!! We don't want Tebow!! He gives the Broncos too much of a chance to win!) :shocked:

jk

[BCJ]

I dont need to root against the Broncos (and dont ever) when all the teams like the Panthers, Lions, Bills and Bengals all won. Here is to all those teams improving to finish the year.

[Clipworthy]

Patrick Peterson in 1st round


enough said

[Northman]

Fairly is getting closer and closer.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Unless we want Andrew Luck, we don't care about having the #1 pick. We need a 3-4 DE in round 1. That means Dareus or Fairley. We'll get one of em by drafting in the top 5. I like Bowers, but he's a 4-3 pass rushing DE. He doesn't fit for us if we stay w/ 3-4.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

That said...would it be interesting if we do finish w/ pick #1 and hire Harbaugh the next day???

[Clipworthy]

Unless we want Andrew Luck, we don't care about having the #1 pick. We need a 3-4 DE in round 1. That means Dareus or Fairley. We'll get one of em by drafting in the top 5. I like Bowers, but he's a 4-3 pass rushing DE. He doesn't fit for us if we stay w/ 3-4.

Sure we need D line, but hardly any high 3-4 DE's worth a top 5 pick

Patrick Peterson is the answer for this draft, we desperately need young backfield talent and he is a beast

D line can be had in 2nd when theres still tons of talent because d lineman usually drop

[Cugel]

Unless we want Andrew Luck, we don't care about having the #1 pick. We need a 3-4 DE in round 1. That means Dareus or Fairley. We'll get one of em by drafting in the top 5. I like Bowers, but he's a 4-3 pass rushing DE. He doesn't fit for us if we stay w/ 3-4.

He's a superb athlete and can easily be converted to NT, or play as a 3-4 DE and push the pocket. He's exactly what this team desperately needs.

Yes there are other players who would be good, but he's a great prospect. Fairley has too many question-marks about his dirty play, etc.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

He's a superb athlete and can easily be converted to NT, or play as a 3-4 DE and push the pocket. He's exactly what this team desperately needs.

Yes there are other players who would be good, but he's a great prospect. Fairley has too many question-marks about his dirty play, etc.

I'm actually partial to Dareus, but the collective seems to want Fairly so I mentioned him. Dareus is a monster and already plays 3-4 DE in college. He has the perfect measurements for the position and his play goes along with the numbers. I don't see how a college pass rushing DE can all of a sudden be a stalwart at NOSETACKLE. He weighs 275. He needs 40-50 lbs added on to be a smallish NT. And even as a 3-4 DE, his job wouldn't be to rush the passer. Look at Pitt and Bmore, their DLinemen free up the LBs. Bowers would be a wasted pick if we stay 3-4.

And to the post that says it's too early for a DE...KC took one at #3 not too long ago (one who flew UP the boards)...and another in the top 5 the year before. Now they seem to be a pretty damn good team...funny thing. DLInemen, especially 3-4 prospects, go UP the board. Look at recent history of the draft.

[Clipworthy]

what makes you guys think we are absolutely desperate for D lineman? It wouldn't be a smart pick for us... too many issues on D

PLUS..f/a there are always good d lineman, and we do have some good talent, we are desperate for dumervil to come back and secure that side of the field, it will help the d line a lot having dumervil outside

d line shouldn't be our top priority in top 5, and passing on peterson would be a major mistake

[EMB6903]

I wouldnt mind drafting Peterson. Hes a great talent and as the previous poster said... too many defensive needs to be caught up on one position.

draft the best DEFENSIVE position available and I think Peterson is better then Fairley.

I'd go on to say Bailey, and Dareus are every bit as good as Fairley.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

what makes you guys think we are absolutely desperate for D lineman? It wouldn't be a smart pick for us... too many issues on D

PLUS..f/a there are always good d lineman, and we do have some good talent, we are desperate for dumervil to come back and secure that side of the field, it will help the d line a lot having dumervil outside

d line shouldn't be our top priority in top 5, and passing on peterson would be a major mistake

DLINE should be our ONLY priority. We've spent the past 2 offseasons ignoring that part of the defense and using patchwork reject backups to fill in the holes to a newly converted 3-4 system. We have a new QB, 3 young WRs, and a VERY young OLine (3 rookies drafted in 2010) on offense. On D, we have our OLBs and DJ. We could use ILB depth, but noone is worth a top 5 pick there. Our secondary is old, but we have added young talent. We've had the best secondary in the league before and we still sucked. The reason is the weak DLine which has been a mess for a decade. Remember the Browns? How bout the draft w/ Moss and Crowder? We need talent there. DLIne is what make 3-4 defense go. Pitt amd Bmore are nothing if their dline doesn't keep blockers off of their LBs.

[Clipworthy]

when you have a pick this high, you have to put a little less emphasis on needs and go for pure D talent

[Clipworthy]

DLINE should be our ONLY priority. We've spent the past 2 offseasons ignoring that part of the defense and using patchwork reject backups to fill in the holes to a newly converted 3-4 system. We have a new QB, 3 young WRs, and a VERY young OLine (3 rookies drafted in 2010) on offense. On D, we have our OLBs and DJ. We could use ILB depth, but noone is worth a top 5 pick there. Our secondary is old, but we have added young talent. We've had the best secondary in the league before and we still sucked. The reason is the weak DLine which has been a mess for a decade. Remember the Browns? How bout the draft w/ Moss and Crowder? We need talent there. DLIne is what make 3-4 defense go. Pitt amd Bmore are nothing if their dline doesn't keep blockers off of their LBs.

The d line we have isnt terrible, bannan and williams have been pretty solid... what is hurting them is the lack of pass rush, aka dumervil. They are being asked to cover too much ground because we can't get outside pressure forcing the play into the middle wall where they should, in a 3-4 scheme, just have to build a wall

[EMB6903]

Jamal Williams is terrible.

[BroncoWave]

when you have a pick this high, you have to put a little less emphasis on needs and go for pure D talent

Fairley and Dareus are pure D talent. And to say d-line wouldn't be a smart pick has to be one of the most ignorant posts I have read on here in a while.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

when you have a pick this high, you have to put a little less emphasis on needs and go for pure D talent

Which Dareus has. I'm not wanting the best DE available regardless of ranking. Look at the rankings, mocks, etc. I know they are merely projections, but Dareus is rated as a TOP LEVEL talent. He's not merely a top 10-15 guy who fills a need we have. If that were the case, I'd be w/ ya 100%...or at least on the trade back train. He's expected to be a monster. As is Fairly. Both have dominated the best conference in football...as has Peterson. But DLine is a desperation need for us. We MUST address it now.

Hell...look at Detroit since they all of a sudden have a good DLine. They are actually dominant in the trenches which helps their below average back 7. As a result, they are competitive and actually winning some games w/ a back up QB and no run game to speak of.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Jamal Williams is terrible.

and elderly

[robert ethan]

You never know what will happen at the draft. There is no guarantee that the Panthers would draft luck if they finish last. Clausen played pretty well today and Luck isn't nearly as good as the hype makes him out to be. Plus there is no guarantee that he will even come out. He has less experience than Bradford had a year ago, and the league seems to have figured out Bradford.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

You never know what will happen at the draft. There is no guarantee that the Panthers would draft luck if they finish last. Clausen played pretty well today and Luck isn't nearly as good as the hype makes him out to be. Plus there is no guarantee that he will even come out. He has less experience than Bradford had a year ago, and the league seems to have figured out Bradford.

Noone has "figure out" Bradford. It's called the rookie wall. And he's hit it. It doesn't help that every legit receiving threat has gone all IR on him. Bradford will be a stud...as will Luck. I'll go w/ all 32 scouting heads over yer opinion. sorry.

[underrated29]

Sure we need D line, but hardly any high 3-4 DE's worth a top 5 pick

Patrick Peterson is the answer for this draft, we desperately need young backfield talent and he is a beast

D line can be had in 2nd when theres still tons of talent because d lineman usually drop



I would not complain with peterson, but it would be stupid. He might even be converted to S.


We need DL plain and simple.....Look at all the players around the league. The teams with the top DE/NT are all taken as top tier talent. top 10 or less....ngata went 12...

How about DB? Top Tier Dbs are found later in the drafts and even 2nd rounders are good too.



WE MUST get a top DE/NT- We NEVER have had this chance ever, and need to take care of it now. Teams Run at will on us. All over us all the freaking time. That stops when we have a solid DL. Look at the teams with good corners and look at the teams with good front 7.

I think the teams with the front 7s explain for themselves which is more important.



Peterson is a stud, really really good. But unless we want our #1 pcik making tackles 30 yards down field like champ bailey had to do tonight, and everynight. It is not worth it for us!

[robert ethan]

Noone has "figure out" Bradford. It's called the rookie wall. And he's hit it. It doesn't help that every legit receiving threat has gone all IR on him. Bradford will be a stud...as will Luck. I'll go w/ all 32 scouting heads over yer opinion. sorry.
Yeah, say hello to all 32 of them for me SAss, the next time they call you up.

[BroncoWave]

Noone has "figure out" Bradford. It's called the rookie wall. And he's hit it. It doesn't help that every legit receiving threat has gone all IR on him. Bradford will be a stud...as will Luck. I'll go w/ all 32 scouting heads over yer opinion. sorry.

Seriously. There have been some dumb posts in this thread. Saying the league has "figured out" a guy that is simply hitting his rookie wall is laughable at best.

[pipes]

That said...would it be interesting if we do finish w/ pick #1 and hire Harbaugh the next day???

It would figure if Denver would do that...and automatically be back in the league's doghouse for violation of "The Rooney Rule"
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[underrated29]

You never know what will happen at the draft. There is no guarantee that the Panthers would draft luck if they finish last. .



I actually believe that the panthers will take bowers at #1 Overall. They are desperate for a DT....They have moore and clausen, I think they give them another year and take a DT. They are just as desperate as we are for DL...

imo.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

The bad thing is, we're just a year too late. There just isn't an Ndamukong Suh in the draft this year and that's exactly what we need. A D-lineman so dominant you can build your whole defense around him for years. He was as close to guaranteed as you could get. None of the guys this year are anywhere near as Dominant or as "guaranteed".

Dammit! :mad:

[robert ethan]

The Cards were spoon feeding Bradford with dink and dunk stuff. He has the lowest YPC average in the league by a fair bit. So now teams are just jumping the patterns. To me that is "figuring a guy out". I think Bradford has something like 0 TDs and 5 picks over the last few games.

[Clipworthy]

I know we need d line... but is it really worth passing on a very very rare chance at elite rookie talent?

D line can be addressed in later rounds, D lineman always fall + always tons of them. Maybe we dont get a playmaker, but we can get a very solid guy to fill that need

[BroncoWave]

I know we need d line... but is it really worth passing on a very very rare chance at elite rookie talent?

D line can be addressed in later rounds, D lineman always fall + always tons of them. Maybe we dont get a playmaker, but we can get a very solid guy to fill that need

We've had the best CB in the NFL for the last 6 years. Fat lot of good that has done with our pathetic d-line. Peterson is a fantastic talent, but that would ne a draft pick with the studs on the d-line sitting there.

[TXBRONC]

Take care of the front end of the defense first and we'll be the better for it even if we don't have a top flight secondary.

[Clipworthy]

D line is plentiful in 2nd, I don't understand wanting to get one this high

Peterson is a rare talent, immediate impact, at S or CB

2 great corners on each side, that means very little help needed up top and can move safeties in the box more often and really get into blitzing

Peterson makes a MUCH bigger impact on this team than a 3-4 d lineman does. period.

[MileHiWildcat]

D line is plentiful in 2nd, I don't understand wanting to get one this high

Peterson is a rare talent, immediate impact, at S or CB

2 great corners on each side, that means very little help needed up top and can move safeties in the box more often and really get into blitzing

Peterson makes a MUCH bigger impact on this team than a 3-4 d lineman does. period.

Man, I am simply floored by your COMPLETE and utter inability to see what is wrong (and has been wrong) with the Broncos for year now. They need linemen. Those that can rush the QB and stop the run. In addition, those that can run block. Glad you aren't running the Draft.

[TXBRONC]

D line is plentiful in 2nd, I don't understand wanting to get one this high

Peterson is a rare talent, immediate impact, at S or CB

2 great corners on each side, that means very little help needed up top and can move safeties in the box more often and really get into blitzing

Peterson makes a MUCH bigger impact on this team than a 3-4 d lineman does. period.

If you can't get a consistent pass rush on a quarterback then having 2 great corners wont do you much good. You can get solid corner backs and safeties later in the draft. The best defensive line are usually gone in the top end of the draft.

[Clipworthy]

What has killed us? big runs

Who is responsible for big runs esp. to outside? OLB's and DB's

Dumervil? olb problem addressed

DB's? ....

[HORSEPOWER 56]

D line is plentiful in 2nd, I don't understand wanting to get one this high

Peterson is a rare talent, immediate impact, at S or CB

2 great corners on each side, that means very little help needed up top and can move safeties in the box more often and really get into blitzing

Peterson makes a MUCH bigger impact on this team than a 3-4 d lineman does. period.

Is he Ed Reed? Is He Troy Polamalu? Is he Eric Berry?

The answer is no, and if he ain't guaranteed to be any of those guys I wouldn't spend my 1st round pick on him when our whole D-line Sucks Ass.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

What has killed us? big runs

Who is responsible for big runs esp. to outside? OLB's and DB's

Dumervil? olb problem addressed

DB's? ....

Elvis has NEVER been stout against the run... ever. He's a pass rush specialist, always has been, always will be. Nobody is going to support the idea of drafting secondary with a top 5 pick when we've neglected the D-line for 10 years. You're barking up the wrong tree here, bro.

[Clipworthy]

Is he Ed Reed? Is He Troy Polamalu? Is he Eric Berry?

The answer is no, and if he ain't guaranteed to be any of those guys I wouldn't spend my 1st round pick on him when our whole D-line Sucks Ass.

Not a guarantee any of the top d lineman become worthy either, in fact less likely

[TXBRONC]

Is he Ed Reed? Is He Troy Polamalu? Is he Eric Berry?

The answer is no, and if he ain't guaranteed to be any of those guys I wouldn't spend my 1st round pick on him when our whole D-line Sucks Ass.

Other than Polamalu the Steelers over the years have put their money in the front seven.

[Clipworthy]

I know we need D line, but there isn't a single dominant D lineman in this draft, nothing like last year

the only logical reason to take one of these D lineman is to trade down for one

[Joel]

I would not complain with peterson, but it would be stupid. He might even be converted to S.

We need DL plain and simple.....Look at all the players around the league. The teams with the top DE/NT are all taken as top tier talent. top 10 or less....ngata went 12...

How about DB? Top Tier Dbs are found later in the drafts and even 2nd rounders are good too.

WE MUST get a top DE/NT- We NEVER have had this chance ever, and need to take care of it now. Teams Run at will on us. All over us all the freaking time. That stops when we have a solid DL. Look at the teams with good corners and look at the teams with good front 7.

I think the teams with the front 7s explain for themselves which is more important.

Peterson is a stud, really really good. But unless we want our #1 pcik making tackles 30 yards down field like champ bailey had to do tonight, and everynight. It is not worth it for us!
I'm not calling you out, man, 'cos EVERYONE seems to do it, but: I HATE the term/abbreviation "DL" and "NT/DE" is only slightly better for acknowledging a difference.

Defensive tackles aren't just ends lined up over center, folks, anymore than ends are tackles that like to blitz around offensive tackles. They're different positions with different, though related, responsibilities, and that's especially true in a 3-4. A legit starting 3-4 NT is TOTALLY worth a top five pick in my book, because he's a gravity well where runners go to die and pockets collapse on QBs, and players with that kind of mass and strength who still retain real athleticism are that rare, in addition to being VITAL to a decent 3-4. I tend to agree with MethoSauRuS though that a 3-4 end isn't worth it when it means passing over other known top five talent for a player you could get with the #34 pick (which is probably what we get, unless Carolina goes on a tear against Atlanta and Pitt). Heck, we MIGHT even be able to get a pretty good 3-4 DE with the #56 pick. If you're thinking, Well, we'll just draft one of those stud DEs and move him inside to NT, then 1) Trevor Pryce and 2) yegods, no, just... no; if he can play DE worth a darn he'll never be a 3-4 NT. You can't play DE in any system at 350.

Please, when we're talking about guys for our defensive line, could we specify exactly what we want? 'Cos it seems to me that if you're looking for a DE to get 10 sacks that's not really how the 3-4 works, and if you're after one because there's no stud NT available, you might be able to get away with moving him to DT in a 4-3 (don't tell Trevor I said that though; he scares me...) but I wouldn't try it with a 3-4.

So I'm back to:

Take the best guy out there at #2, even a punter, 'cos with THIS many gaping holes I'll bet money we can start him Day One, and even if we can't we can trade him to someone so desperate for a Pro Bowl x they'll hand us an EXISTING Pro Bowler or two plus a couple more picks. Just don't blow a #2 pick we'll have to go through another season like THIS to get on someone we could get at #34, or someone for whom we can substitute the #10, or 15, or 20 pick next year.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Not a guarantee any of the top d lineman become worthy either, in fact less likely

True, but you have to try. The Broncos haven't drafted in the top 10 in over 20 years. We absolutely have to fix the defense this year. Sorry man, but adding another defensive back does you no good when you can't get pressure or stop the run.

We've had great players like Champ, John Lynch, Brian Dawkins, etc for the last 10 years but they've struggled because they get no support from the front 7. pterson isn't any better than any of those guys. he wouldn't make that big of a difference.

The real point is, you will find ZERO support for your philosophy about Peterson from the guys on this board. Trust me. Everyone here wants to draft D-linemen. We have for years and have been crucifying Mcdaniels and Shanahan before him when they haven't. I don't care if Peterson is the next Deion Sanders (which he isn't), he won't be effective without a decent D-line in front of him. If he's as good as you think he is, teams will just throw/run the other way like they've done with Champ his whole career here. let it go brother, we're not going to draft Peterson.

[Clipworthy]

Jamaal is under appreciated this season by Denver...as you said NT is a very very tough position and he often will be forgotten during games despite taking up 2 blockers, can't ask for much more than that, its other positions that are lacking

[Clipworthy]

True, but you have to try. The Broncos haven't drafted in the top 10 in over 20 years. We absolutely have to fix the defense this year. Sorry man, but adding another defensive back does you no good when you can't get pressure or stop the run.

We've had great players like Champ, John Lynch, Brian Dawkins, etc for the last 10 years but they've struggled because they get no support from the front 7. pterson isn't any better than any of those guys. he wouldn't make that big of a difference.

The real point is, you will find ZERO support for your philosophy about Peterson from the guys on this board. Trust me. Everyone here wants to draft D-linemen. We have for years and have been crucifying Mcdaniels and Shanahan before him when they haven't. I don't care if Peterson is the next Deion Sanders (which he isn't), he won't be effective without a decent D-line in front of him. If he's as good as you think he is, teams will just throw/run the other way like they've done with Champ his who;le career here. let oit go brother, we're not going to draft Peterson.

I understand... but also wonder when we are going to repair this secondary, not getting any younger, and its become obvious that the later round corners we have been taking don't make quite enough of an impact

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I understand... but also wonder when we are going to repair this secondary, not getting any younger, and its become obvious that the later round corners we have been taking don't make quite enough of an impact

Not getting any younger? McBath and Bruton are 2nd year guys. Cox, Squid and Vaughn are rookies. We have a TON of youth. There's no telling how these guys will turn out once we get rid of the terrible piece of garbage DC we have right now and bring in a real coach or help them out with a pass rush.

Remember something, Revis island didn't even exist until last year (his 3rd year in the league). It took that dude 2 years before anyone really even knew his name, now he's supposedly "the best". Why is he so good? Could it be that the Jets pass rush like wild men and so his job is that much easier?

[underrated29]

I'm not calling you out, man, 'cos EVERYONE seems to do it, but: I HATE the term/abbreviation "DL" and "NT/DE" is only slightly better for acknowledging a difference.

Defensive tackles aren't just ends lined up over center, folks, anymore than ends are tackles that like to blitz around offensive tackles. They're different positions with different, though related, responsibilities, and that's especially true in a 3-4. A legit starting 3-4 NT is TOTALLY worth a top five pick in my book, because he's a gravity well where runners go to die and pockets collapse on QBs, and players with that kind of mass and strength who still retain real athleticism are that rare, in addition to being VITAL to a decent 3-4. I tend to agree with MethoSauRuS though that a 3-4 end isn't worth it when it means passing over other known top five talent for a player you could get with the #34 pick (which is probably what we get, unless Carolina goes on a tear against Atlanta and Pitt). Heck, we MIGHT even be able to get a pretty good 3-4 DE with the #56 pick. If you're thinking, Well, we'll just draft one of those stud DEs and move him inside to NT, then 1) Trevor Pryce and 2) yegods, no, just... no; if he can play DE worth a darn he'll never be a 3-4 NT. You can't play DE in any system at 350.

Please, when we're talking about guys for our defensive line, could we specify exactly what we want? 'Cos it seems to me that if you're looking for a DE to get 10 sacks that's not really how the 3-4 works, and if you're after one because there's no stud NT available, you might be able to get away with moving him to DT in a 4-3 (don't tell Trevor I said that though; he scares me...) but I wouldn't try it with a 3-4.

So I'm back to:

Take the best guy out there at #2, even a punter, 'cos with THIS many gaping holes I'll bet money we can start him Day One, and even if we can't we can trade him to someone so desperate for a Pro Bowl x they'll hand us an EXISTING Pro Bowler or two plus a couple more picks. Just don't blow a #2 pick we'll have to go through another season like THIS to get on someone we could get at #34, or someone for whom we can substitute the #10, or 15, or 20 pick next year.



The reason why I listed them that way is because I am not certain we are going to be sticking with the 3-4 next year. Until we know who our HC is and what defense he wants to run I think it is up in the air...for the moment. Obviously, I fully expect us to have a HC in place well before the draft and we will then know what we are looking at. For now. DLINE, I do not care. DE,DT, NT- they are all good with me as I think we can play either defense at the moment with this group of guys.

Fairley is better suited for the 4-3, but I think he can make the switch, and while the DE in a 34 eats up guys and runners and such, they can still pressure the qb. The cowboy guy is a great example of this...forget his name atm...He bringing heat on obvious pass down, with doom is SEXY!

Dareus is already a 34 beast.

So to me, I am open to all types of all guys as long as they are on DL, because I believe that we can easily switch to a 43 again...Not really my preference but it can imo be done.

and the top 3 DL guys imo are all going to be pro bowlers.

[Clipworthy]

If your convinced on these linemans talent level, okay...but I'm not :confused:

[Cugel]

I'm actually partial to Dareus, but the collective seems to want Fairly so I mentioned him. Dareus is a monster and already plays 3-4 DE in college. He has the perfect measurements for the position and his play goes along with the numbers. I don't see how a college pass rushing DE can all of a sudden be a stalwart at NOSETACKLE. He weighs 275. He needs 40-50 lbs added on to be a smallish NT. And even as a 3-4 DE, his job wouldn't be to rush the passer. Look at Pitt and Bmore, their DLinemen free up the LBs. Bowers would be a wasted pick if we stay 3-4.

And to the post that says it's too early for a DE...KC took one at #3 not too long ago (one who flew UP the boards)...and another in the top 5 the year before. Now they seem to be a pretty damn good team...funny thing. DLInemen, especially 3-4 prospects, go UP the board. Look at recent history of the draft.

As for Da'Quan, he's 6'5" and an absolute athletic FREAK who can run a 4.8. He has plenty of frame to add weight for the NFL and he will.

As for Drafting DL early the THEORY behind it is Bill Parcells' "Big Planet" theory: there are only so many men on the planet big enough and athletic enough to play DL in the NFL and if you have the chance to draft one of them you have to take it! (This means rush the passer and defend the run equally). This is the trouble with the 4-3. There simply aren't enough really good DL who are 6-5 and can run like the wind, rush the passer, and fight off double teams.

There are often only 2 or 3 in an entire draft. That's why a guy like Mario Williams was the top overall pick and Suh was #2.

Normally you can find a 3-4 DE later in the draft (Pittsburgh drafted theirs in later rounds), but these guys just eat up blockers.

If you're designing a defense from scratch and have one of the top 3 draft picks you take a MONSTER pass-rushing DL -- like Da'Quan who had 16 sacks.

If you find a player who can RUSH the passer AND strongly defend the run (61 tackles!) then you have that golden 2-way player who is potentially an "impact Player". The kind of guy the offense needs to account for on every single play or he'll penetrate and blow up the play.

If not Da'Quan then they need to find a pure NT who can do the same thing.

But, that guy looks like he's going to be pure holy hell in the NFL if he continues to develop the way he has. He's only a junior and already the Scout.com defensive player of the year.

There are certainly other players to consider, but I would like to see what this kid could do in Orange. Hell, if Carolina wins one more game (they won today) then the Broncos could wind up with the top overall pick!

Some team would probably offer a ton of draft picks for the chance to draft Luck! Or the Broncos could do what the Chargers did with Eli Manning -- take him and then trade him the same day!

[Cugel]

Heck, we MIGHT even be able to get a pretty good 3-4 DE with the #56 pick. If you're thinking, Well, we'll just draft one of those stud DEs and move him inside to NT, then 1) Trevor Pryce and 2) yegods, no, just... no; if he can play DE worth a darn he'll never be a 3-4 NT. You can't play DE in any system at 350.

If all you want is a big guy to soak up blockers and let the LBs run free then you can sometimes find one in the later rounds. Pittsburgh did very well doing just that!

But, if you want a DE who can also get pressure on the passer, then no! That's the theory anyway.

But, as for Da'Quan he's listed at 275, not 250, which is about what Trevor Pryce was. He's 6'4" which means he has room on his frame to add some weight and he will.

I'm not going to argue that a pure NT isn't a good idea, but who do you pick with a top 5 pick this year? Some think that LSU's Patrick Peterson could be the next Champ Bailey so the Broncos could take a CB. But, that's a wild reach if they draft #2.

The defense begins with the D-line. Even Champ Bailey says that "the pass defense will get better with a better pass-rush."

It all begins up front, and they need to start rebuilding NOW with top rated talent.

Just look around the NFL at all the star DL. They were mostly taken in the first round and many in the top 10.

Sure you can sometimes find a star DL OUTSIDE the 1st round, but you have to get very lucky. Teams are grabbing them faster and faster every single year because of the ever growing need to rush the passer.

[Clipworthy]

this defense is MUCH different when dumervil is outside rushing.... its not like we don't have a pass rush for next season

**led the league in sacks**

[Cugel]

I would not complain with Peterson, but it would be stupid. He might even be converted to S.

We need DL plain and simple.....Look at all the players around the league. The teams with the top DE/NT are all taken as top tier talent. top 10 or less....Ngata went 12...

How about DB? Top Tier Dbs are found later in the drafts and even 2nd rounders are good too.

WE MUST get a top DE/NT- We NEVER have had this chance ever, and need to take care of it now. Teams Run at will on us. All over us all the freaking time. That stops when we have a solid DL. Look at the teams with good corners and look at the teams with good front 7.

I think the teams with the front 7s explain for themselves which is more important.

Peterson is a stud, really really good. But unless we want our #1 pcik making tackles 30 yards down field like champ bailey had to do tonight, and everynight. It is not worth it for us!

This is all true. Look where the Raiders drafted Asomugha! 31st pick of the 1st round. And I was on the Raiders boards when they took him and the fans were going berserk with rage! "WTF" was typical. :laugh:

Best CB in the NFL for the past 2 years, and they certainly didn't use a top 10 pick on him!

I'm not comfortable drafting a CB in the top 5! A DE or DT? YES! Because to get a great one you pretty much have to roll the dice with a top 10 pick these days.

That's where all the top DL are taken. It's damn rare that a Jared Allen falls into your lap in the 2nd round!

[underrated29]

this defense is MUCH different when dumervil is outside rushing.... its not like we don't have a pass rush for next season

**led the league in sacks**



And we were still pathetic against the run and average against the pass.

[Cugel]

this defense is MUCH different when dumervil is outside rushing.... its not like we don't have a pass rush for next season

**led the league in sacks**

If he were on this years' defense he'd be triple-teamed on every play. The Broncos DESPERATELY need NT, DT, DE. Guys who can put pressure up the middle. Guys who can disrupt the offense, tie up blockers.

In short if I had a magic "draft wand" I'd draft another Justin Tuck. With him pressuring the center and Dumervil rushing off the edge we'd have a decent pass rush for the first time in recent history!

[robert ethan]

In another year a lot of those D linemen would be considered ordinary. Second round projects. It isn't a great draft and they get more hype than they deserve.

Draft Nate Solder and Kyle Rudolph and hire a new defensive co-ordinator. Rookies seldom make a huge difference in any case. It wasn't a sudden drop off in talent that turned the defense from the 7th best in the league to the absolute worst in the space of less than a year.

[cuzz4169]

I think Peterson is the best defensive talent in the draft...It all depends on what we do for defense if we stay 3-4 or go 4-3. I think #1 priority is NT if we stay 3-4. Shot we need help everywhere on defense what am i talking about. We also need some speed on the offensive side of the ball.

[EMB6903]

This team needs a new starting defensive line (all 3) both inside linebackers (Im getting tired of DJ's pathetic play lately) and both safeties. Whatever position they decide to go after first I could care less just hope its the best player available.

Which right now will come down to Fairley, Peterson, or Dareus.

[Juriga72]

Who wont be here next year we can trade for Hayensworth???

Dude is a beast, and needs a new view to a kill

[Nomad]

Who wont be here next year we can trade for Hayensworth???

Dude is a beast, and needs a new view to a kill

What coach will Denver bring in to tame Haynesworth's attitude and his pricetag!?!

[dunk7]

What coach will Denver bring in to tame Haynesworth's attitude and his pricetag!?!

I'll state the obvious...Jeff Fisher

[Jake Klug]

Patrick Peterson in 1st round


enough said

No, more needs to be said about this. Having a good DB can easily be neutralized if you dont have players up front.

Denver needs to draft defensive line.

[dunk7]

No, more needs to be said about this. Having a good DB can easily be neutralized if you dont have players up front.

Denver needs to draft defensive line.

Hit the nail on the head in this post. Most of the opposing QB's this year could have had a picnic in the amount of time it would take one of our linemen to reach him. Patrick Peterson will be top notch but I'm think Fairley would benefit us most at this point (that is if Champ stays).

[Jake Klug]

Hit the nail on the head in this post. Most of the opposing QB's this year could have had a picnic in the amount of time it would take one of our linemen to reach him. Patrick Peterson will be top notch but I'm think Fairley would benefit us most at this point (that is if Champ stays).

Yeah, some say Dareus because he's a 3/4 DE in college and thats a more valid pick than Peterson. But when you look at the guys getting push from the interior DLine, its Fairley. They need someone who can get push and pressure the QB and demand double teams on the same side as Doom.

[SOCALORADO.]

No, more needs to be said about this. Having a good DB can easily be neutralized if you dont have players up front.

Denver needs to draft defensive line.

Yes.

As for your draft, youve changed it! Interesting that even with yet another of knowshows crappy, injury plagued preformance, you STILL dont go RB just a little higher. I know DEN needs defense bad, but DEN also needs a full time, game changing RB to go with TT. And i dont think Orton goes for a 2nd either, but its your picks.

1st: Nick Fairley, RDE
1st (traded up with 2 2nds): J.J. Watt, LDE
2nd (Orton): Mikel Leshoure, RB
3rd: Phil Taylor, NT
6th: Chris Rucker, FS/CB
6th: James Carpenter, G

[Jake Klug]

Yes.

As for your draft, youve changed it! Interesting that even with yet another of knowshows crappy, injury plagued preformance, you STILL dont go RB just a little higher. I know DEN needs defense bad, but DEN also needs a full time, game changing RB to go with TT. And i dont think Orton goes for a 2nd either, but its your picks. 1st: Nick Fairley, RDE
1st (traded up with 2 2nds): J.J. Watt, LDE
2nd (Orton): Mikel Leshoure, RB
3rd: Phil Taylor, NT
6th: Chris Rucker, FS/CB
6th: James Carpenter, G

Have you seen what Charlie Whitehurst was traded for?

And Im sorry, but we just need to go all in on defense. Leshoure is a nice player but we're in dire need on defense. Having Leshoure and Moreno when we need guys who can contribute on defense is kind of excessive.

[SOCALORADO.]

Have you seen what Charlie Whitehurst was traded for?

And Im sorry, but we just need to go all in on defense. Leshoure is a nice player but we're in dire need on defense. Having Leshoure and Moreno when we need guys who can contribute on defense is kind of excessive.

I agree with defense. I have !!!! 1 !!!! offensive guy in the top bunch of picks! Just 1!!!
Moreno is a bust as a full time RB. No one wants to admit it, but he just cant hold up as a full time RB in the NFL. Hes a 8-10 carry a game back and nothing special either. DEN does need a full time, game changer back there IMHO. We just disagree.
Boy, Whitehurst really set the bar for crappy QBS! LOL!!
Man, i should try to get a contract!!
Maybe, Orton will go for a 2nd! That would be nice!

[Juriga72]

I'll state the obvious...Jeff Fisher

It seemed to me he played hard for Jeff....

Draft picks are good, but getting a guy who needs to show people just how good he is- priceless.

Shanny needs to get out from under that contract...and we all know how good he is at moving "Money around"...LMAO

[GEM]

Who wont be here next year we can trade for Hayensworth???

Dude is a beast, and needs a new view to a kill

HELL NO on that one.

[Juriga72]

HELL NO on that one.

I'm telling you NEXT year Haynesworth is going to be on fire. He's just got his wang smacked in public and he will do everything to show up Shanny.....

39 million of his contract is front loaded IIRC... He's NOT that exspensive as a rookie 2nd or 3rd pick who has not played one down ....

I know they are going to change it... but how much will it really change? STILL...30-40 mill for a guy who not stepped on a NFL field

[GEM]

I'm telling you NEXT year Haynesworth is going to be on fire. He's just got his wang smacked in public and he will do everything to show up Shanny.....

39 million of his contract is front loaded IIRC... He's NOT that exspensive as a rookie 2nd or 3rd pick who has not played one down ....

I know they are going to change it... but how much will it really change? STILL...30-40 mill for a guy who not stepped on a NFL field

We aren't in any kind of position to take that kind of chance on. We need to just build through the draft and not take chances on FA's, especially ones with his kind of history.

[ydave77]

Hate to cry over what you can't control, but who else is wishing we had a chance at a Suh, or Mcoy. Just not sure I am excited over drafting a 3-4 DE prospect as a top 5 pick. 3-4 DE's are supposed to take up blockers, and Bowers seems to have value if you use him as a pass rush threat as well...
And fairley, I am not sold on...

Then again I know jack about college football, and the draft is kinda a crapshoot...

[Juriga72]

We aren't in any kind of position to take that kind of chance on. We need to just build through the draft and not take chances on FA's, especially ones with his kind of history.

Its kinda a chicken or egg thing.....to me that is.

Drafted rookie who MIGHT /might not make huge splash for us versus a Pro Bowl benched and pissed who wants to show "I am still the man"....

Washington HAS to get rid of him after this year. Has to.... we might get him by trading some of our bad paper for his bad paper....

BTW...also WHO says new coach will keep 3-4? Looking at this defense?

[G_Money]

I would switch back to a 4-3 on D, honestly. There are a lot of 4-3 talents in this draft. It screws Dumervil a bit, since he finally made impact in a 3-4, but I don't believe in Ayers and there are no other LBs on the team that require a 3-4 to be effective. There are penetrating DL in this draft that I want, and we could get at least two of them if not more.

And DJ's better as a Will than in the middle, IMO. There's no overwhelming talent added to the D that requires we stay in a 3-4. Our next coaching staff could go back very easily.

~G

[Traveler]

I would switch back to a 4-3 on D, honestly. There are a lot of 4-3 talents in this draft. It screws Dumervil a bit, since he finally made impact in a 3-4, but I don't believe in Ayers and there are no other LBs on the team that require a 3-4 to be effective. There are penetrating DL in this draft that I want, and we could get at least two of them if not more.

And DJ's better as a Will than in the middle, IMO. There's no overwhelming talent added to the D that requires we stay in a 3-4. Our next coaching staff could go back very easily.

~G

Names of the players you like, please.

[arapaho2]

The d line we have isnt terrible, bannan and williams have been pretty solid... what is hurting them is the lack of pass rush, aka dumervil. They are being asked to cover too much ground because we can't get outside pressure forcing the play into the middle wall where they should, in a 3-4 scheme, just have to build a wall

d line isnt terrible???

Dude what team have you been watching

defense starts on the line...our defense is 31st in total defense...32nd in sacks...31st in rushing d...our dline sucks

our trouble aside from a lack of a pass rush is the weak interior of the line..when teams can run on you at will...the whole unit fails

Dline is the first need

[dogfish]

I know we need d line... but is it really worth passing on a very very rare chance at elite rookie talent?

D line can be addressed in later rounds, D lineman always fall + always tons of them. Maybe we dont get a playmaker, but we can get a very solid guy to fill that need

excellent thought process here. . . line play is overrated, after all-- what this team really needs is more skill position talent. . . we can get some linemen in the 5th or 6th that will be more than sufficient-- or bring in some free agents on the cheap. . . why change what's working?

we can target some guys like terdell sands and travis johnson-- that should really shore up the defensive front. . .

[Juriga72]

Spears and Kiwanuka (sp).... LOL added to the d-line

[SOCALORADO.]

excellent thought process here. . . line play is overrated, after all-- what this team really needs is more skill position talent. . . we can get some linemen in the 5th or 6th that will be more than sufficient-- or bring in some free agents on the cheap. . . why change what's working?

we can target some guys like terdell sands and travis johnson-- that should really shore up the defensive front. . .

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/1/a/1acbd_ORIG-normal_CocaineRickJames.jpg

[vandammage13]

This is how I hope it works out for us.....

Rd.1- Nick Fairley (DT, Auburn)
Rd.2- Adrian Clayborn (DE, Iowa...falls due to character issues)
Rd.3- Chris Marve (LB, Vanderbilt)
Rd.4- Ahmad Black (S, Florida)

[Juriga72]

This is how I hope it works out for us.....

Rd.1- Nick Fairley (DT, Auburn)
Rd.2- Adrian Clayborn (DE, Iowa...falls due to character issues)
Rd.3- Chris Marve (LB, Vanderbilt)
Rd.4- Ahmad Black (S, Florida)

Perrish Cox thinks we should revisit this one...

[SOCALORADO.]

This is how I hope it works out for us.....

Rd.1- Nick Fairley (DT, Auburn)
Rd.2- Adrian Clayborn (DE, Iowa...falls due to character issues)
Rd.3- Chris Marve (LB, Vanderbilt)
Rd.4- Ahmad Black (S, Florida)

DEN has 2 2nds and no 4th.

[vandammage13]

DEN has 2 2nds and no 4th.

Ok...then I hope it looks like this...

#1- Nick Fairley (DT, Auburn)
#2- Adrian Clayborn (DE, Iowa...falls due to character issues)
#3- Chris Marve (LB, Vanderbilt)
#4- Ahmad Black (S, Florida)

[Fan in Exile]

I would switch back to a 4-3 on D, honestly. There are a lot of 4-3 talents in this draft. It screws Dumervil a bit, since he finally made impact in a 3-4, but I don't believe in Ayers and there are no other LBs on the team that require a 3-4 to be effective. There are penetrating DL in this draft that I want, and we could get at least two of them if not more.

And DJ's better as a Will than in the middle, IMO. There's no overwhelming talent added to the D that requires we stay in a 3-4. Our next coaching staff could go back very easily.

~G

I think if there were a great NT candidate in the draft I would want to stick with a 3-4 and him. But there aren't, I'm onboard with a switch to a 4-3 because I think we could draft better for it, and run it better.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Yeah, say hello to all 32 of them for me SAss, the next time they call you up.

It's common knowledge that all teams agree that Luck is rated as can't miss. Hence the Elway comparisons. Only 2 QBs in the past 30 years who have had all teams agree on their talents. But feel free to mock and ignore the points of the thread.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

As for Da'Quan, he's 6'5" and an absolute athletic FREAK who can run a 4.8. He has plenty of frame to add weight for the NFL and he will.

As for Drafting DL early the THEORY behind it is Bill Parcells' "Big Planet" theory: there are only so many men on the planet big enough and athletic enough to play DL in the NFL and if you have the chance to draft one of them you have to take it! (This means rush the passer and defend the run equally). This is the trouble with the 4-3. There simply aren't enough really good DL who are 6-5 and can run like the wind, rush the passer, and fight off double teams.

There are often only 2 or 3 in an entire draft. That's why a guy like Mario Williams was the top overall pick and Suh was #2.

Normally you can find a 3-4 DE later in the draft (Pittsburgh drafted theirs in later rounds), but these guys just eat up blockers.

If you're designing a defense from scratch and have one of the top 3 draft picks you take a MONSTER pass-rushing DL -- like Da'Quan who had 16 sacks.

If you find a player who can RUSH the passer AND strongly defend the run (61 tackles!) then you have that golden 2-way player who is potentially an "impact Player". The kind of guy the offense needs to account for on every single play or he'll penetrate and blow up the play.

If not Da'Quan then they need to find a pure NT who can do the same thing.

But, that guy looks like he's going to be pure holy hell in the NFL if he continues to develop the way he has. He's only a junior and already the Scout.com defensive player of the year.

There are certainly other players to consider, but I would like to see what this kid could do in Orange. Hell, if Carolina wins one more game (they won today) then the Broncos could wind up with the top overall pick!

Some team would probably offer a ton of draft picks for the chance to draft Luck! Or the Broncos could do what the Chargers did with Eli Manning -- take him and then trade him the same day!

I agree w/ you 100% IF we move back to the 4-3. Then I'm all about Bowers. Don't get me wrong. That said, he's just not a 3-4 fit. His talents would be wasted. He is great at getting to the QB, but we wouldn't ask him to do that.

There are 2 NT who I like a lot. Jerrell Powe of Mississippi and Phil Taylor of Baylor. In my mock, I like Taylor in round 3...if we have to grab him w/ Miami's pick in round 2, so be it.

[dogfish]

hey smiley, you think paea can bulk up a bit and play the nose?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Already started. Xmas season is kickin my ass so far.

[Jake Klug]

hey smiley, you think paea can bulk up a bit and play the nose?

I think he can. For what thats worth. The guy is massively strong and isnt too tall. His rugby background should translate in how he can use weight and leverage.

When I watch him and see him 2 gap, he's actually more impressive than when he's shooting upfield. He has such massive strength that he can really control his guy.

It might be more ideal if he adds about 15 lbs but I think he can play NT...again, for what thats worth. But I see a lot of places having him go in the first.

[Cugel]

I agree w/ you 100% IF we move back to the 4-3. Then I'm all about Bowers. Don't get me wrong. That said, he's just not a 3-4 fit. His talents would be wasted. He is great at getting to the QB, but we wouldn't ask him to do that.

There are 2 NT who I like a lot. Jerrell Powe of Mississippi and Phil Taylor of Baylor. In my mock, I like Taylor in round 3...if we have to grab him w/ Miami's pick in round 2, so be it.

The biggest problem I see with Denver in 2011 is the lack of penetration of the center of the line. We NEVER get any push up the middle! That means the QB can step up into a perfect pocket while the double-team pushes Dumervil to the outside.

What this team needs desperately is a Justin Tuck who can line up at DT and then get middle pressure.

Since we don't have and probably can't get next year a COUPLE of serious pass rushing DEs then it probably makes sense to keep the 3-4.

In that case you have to assess whether the Broncos do what KC did in drafting Dorsey and Jason Jackson and sticking them in at DE in a 3-4.

Lots of people have argued, me included, that $53 million in guaranteed money and two top 6 draft picks is a LOT to spend on 3-4 DEs.

But, if they develop into the kinds of players who can penetrate and get consistent pressure on the passer then the KC defense is going to become a monster. If they then throw in a decent pass-rush from the OLB position (Tamba Hali has 11) and you potentially have a top 10 defense for years.

That's why they spent the high draft picks on DEs when they play a base 3-4 most of the time.

[Jake Klug]

The biggest problem I see with Denver in 2011 is the lack of penetration of the center of the line. We NEVER get any push up the middle! That means the QB can step up into a perfect pocket while the double-team pushes Dumervil to the outside.
What this team needs desperately is a Justin Tuck who can line up at DT and then get middle pressure.

Since we don't have and probably can't get next year a COUPLE of serious pass rushing DEs then it probably makes sense to keep the 3-4.

In that case you have to assess whether the Broncos do what KC did in drafting Dorsey and Jason Jackson and sticking them in at DE in a 3-4.

Lots of people have argued, me included, that $53 million in guaranteed money and two top 6 draft picks is a LOT to spend on 3-4 DEs.

But, if they develop into the kinds of players who can penetrate and get consistent pressure on the passer then the KC defense is going to become a monster. If they then throw in a decent pass-rush from the OLB position (Tamba Hali has 11) and you potentially have a top 10 defense for years.

That's why they spent the high draft picks on DEs when they play a base 3-4 most of the time.

Thats one of the main reasons I want Fairley.

[Dzone]

Wonder if anyone has heard how Dooms rehab on that Torn pec is going. Is he going to be 100%. As good as the old Doom?

[Cugel]

Thats one of the main reasons I want Fairley.

You can't argue with his talent, but all those "dirty plays" are a concern. I mean, you need some perspective. He's not Maurice Clarett out there, but still. . . . :coffee:

P.S. Bleacher report thinks he'll be the #1 overall pick instead of Luck. I don't buy it, but that's the speculation (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/548231-2011-nfl-mock-draft-could-nick-fairley-be-sleeper-no-1-pick#page/33):

[Cugel]

Wonder if anyone has heard how Dooms rehab on that Torn pec is going. Is he going to be 100%. As good as the old Doom?

No reason why not that I heard of. The things you worry about are injuries to knees, not pecs!

[Jake Klug]

You can't argue with his talent, but all those "dirty plays" are a concern. I mean, you need some perspective. He's not Maurice Clarett out there, but still. . . . :coffee:

Really, a lot of those plays are actually legal in college. You could theorize, he's doing them because he can. Ive made the point previously too that its actually good to play on the edge in that if you can make the QB think about getting hit and not play as well, it could be worth a 15 yard penalty.

Plus I also dont mind that there is the intensity there and that the guy brings it like that.

Again, I think Fairley could make Doom even more effective if you put him on the right side. The way Fairley demands and performs with double teams, you cant help but seeing him open up opportunities for Doom.

[WARHORSE]

I agree w/ you 100% IF we move back to the 4-3. Then I'm all about Bowers. Don't get me wrong. That said, he's just not a 3-4 fit. His talents would be wasted. He is great at getting to the QB, but we wouldn't ask him to do that.

There are 2 NT who I like a lot. Jerrell Powe of Mississippi and Phil Taylor of Baylor. In my mock, I like Taylor in round 3...if we have to grab him w/ Miami's pick in round 2, so be it.


While I agree he projects best to a 4-3 DE, he can also possibly play standing up. The combine will show alot of that.

One thing about it, Bowers, Doom and Ayers in a pass rush, whether standing or putting a hand in the dirt would be KILLER with a capital hurt.

[Jake Klug]

P.S. Bleacher report thinks he'll be the #1 overall pick instead of Luck. I don't buy it, but that's the speculation (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/548231-2011-nfl-mock-draft-could-nick-fairley-be-sleeper-no-1-pick#page/33):

Not a chance.

[DenBronx]

if the draft were today?


dang that would suck to have the draft just before christmas.

[TXBRONC]

Who wont be here next year we can trade for Hayensworth???

Dude is a beast, and needs a new view to a kill

If we stick with a 3-4 he wont want play here. Besides, you just never know when guy will lay down on the job.

[Nickademus]

The Cards were spoon feeding Bradford with dink and dunk stuff. He has the lowest YPC average in the league by a fair bit. So now teams are just jumping the patterns. To me that is "figuring a guy out". I think Bradford has something like 0 TDs and 5 picks over the last few games.

bradford plays for the rams.

[Joel]

I would switch back to a 4-3 on D, honestly. There are a lot of 4-3 talents in this draft. It screws Dumervil a bit, since he finally made impact in a 3-4, but I don't believe in Ayers and there are no other LBs on the team that require a 3-4 to be effective. There are penetrating DL in this draft that I want, and we could get at least two of them if not more.

And DJ's better as a Will than in the middle, IMO. There's no overwhelming talent added to the D that requires we stay in a 3-4. Our next coaching staff could go back very easily.

~G
Seems to me that the only way a 4-3 makes sense is if we do get it in this draft. We've got the OLBs a good 3-4 needs, though I wouldn't mind one or two more; losing Doom for the season has shown too well how important it is to have three or four of the OLBs vital to a good 3-4. We've also got several good coverage LBs who can blitz to play inside, most notably DJ. We've got guys who can fill at DE. The only thing really missing is a pair of solid NTs who can rotate (the combo I usually reference is Casey Hampton and Chris Hoke; one big reason Pitt's 1st against the run is that when Hampton's winded from shoving a guard and center for fifteen minutes straight Hoke can take his spot without a big hit on D). Jamal Williams might even have a few useful years left in that capacity.

Meanwhile, look at our personnel for a 4-3 and we've basically got Ayers for DE, DJ for WLB and Doom for RDE on passing downs. Then what? Move Thomas back to DT and hope he and Fields finally earn their keep? Did we finally find a 4-3 DE who's going to lock up the outside run, or are we just going to draft them all? Where's the MLB as vital to the 4-3 as the NT is to the 3-4? Is Ayers to play Sam while we go looking for a DE, or play DE while we go looking for a Sam?

Meanwhile, as short passing, multi-receiver spread offenses continue gaining popularity, the 3-4 will more and more become the standard defensive set. Until/unless smash mouth football is once again the order of the day that's not likely to change, and smash mouth isn't likely to come back until so many teams are using the 3-4 that people aren't Dallas Clarking their way to victory because there are enough ILBs with the size AND speed to end that mismatch.

Best athlete available at #2 and either use him immediately or trade him for multiple people we can use. It's sounding like the best thing left at our pick will be probably be a 4-3 DE, so perhaps the trade is the better route unless it's someone we're CERTAIN has the size and strength to play NT just as well. It's iffy even then; people who've spent their previous seasons blitzing QBs and smacking runs off tackle generally aren't thrilled about being pocket collapsing cloggers asked to tie up the guard and center on every down. Regardless, teams playing a 4-3 are going to be increasingly rare as long as offenses that require a 3-4 to beat become more popular, and we appear to better suited overall to the 3-4 now anyway.

[UrbanBounca]

I want Patrick Peterson as a CB, or a good D-lineman.
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[Cugel]

Meanwhile, look at our personnel for a 4-3 and we've basically got Ayers for DE, DJ for WLB and Doom for RDE on passing downs. Then what? Move Thomas back to DT and hope he and Fields finally earn their keep? Did we finally find a 4-3 DE who's going to lock up the outside run, or are we just going to draft them all? Where's the MLB as vital to the 4-3 as the NT is to the 3-4? Is Ayers to play Sam while we go looking for a DE, or play DE while we go looking for a Sam?

Got me convinced! 3-4 it is! :coffee:

Doom is too small to play DE in a 4-3. We already know that. Ayers as a SSLB? He's oft injured and unproductive. And what makes anybody think Fields or Williams fit into a 4-3? They're NTs!

And most likely both will be gone anyway!

You can't underestimate how utterly TALENTLESS the 2010 Broncos defense is. They are 31st in a 32 team league for a very good reason! NO TALENT! Outside Champ, D.J. and Dawkins, there's not ONE guy who would start for another team in the NFL!

Dawkins and Champ will likely both be gone. That leaves D.J. and Doom as the two players you'd want to keep if you're the next DC!

The rest are scrubs and backups at best. Out of the league at worst. Because when you fail miserably for the 31st worst defense in the NFL there's not a lot of room to find another team! Being cut by the Broncos is pretty much your cue to polish your resume for the Arena league. :coffee:

[Superchop 7]

Adding a couple of "DOMINANT" front 7 players would be a good start.

Adding 1 dominant O-lineman would go a long ways as well.

Mediocre takes a step up when they are amongst highly talented players.

Human Nature.

[LTC Pain]

The Broncos first three picks need to focus on help for the front seven. A CB, receiving TE and FB/RB can be had in later rounds.

[Cugel]

The Broncos first three picks need to focus on help for the front seven. A CB, receiving TE and FB/RB can be had in later rounds.

The one exception to this is if they lose Champ Bailey. I don't think you can draft a rookie CB and just throw him out there and nobody else on the Broncos roster is capable of being a #1 CB in the NFL.

They're probably going to have to go out in FA and pay $80 million for a CB who won't be as good as Champ. But, Cox might be going to prison and there's just NOBODY on this team who can step up and be the #1 CB if Champ leaves.

They might have to draft a CB in the first 2 rounds, and ALSO acquire one in FA.

The more you look at all the desperate needs on this team, the more it looks like patching the Titanic with duct-tape. :coffee:

[dogfish]

The one exception to this is if they lose Champ Bailey. I don't think you can draft a rookie CB and just throw him out there and nobody else on the Broncos roster is capable of being a #1 CB in the NFL.

They're probably going to have to go out in FA and pay $80 million for a CB who won't be as good as Champ. But, Cox might be going to prison and there's just NOBODY on this team who can step up and be the #1 CB if Champ leaves.

They might have to draft a CB in the first 2 rounds, and ALSO acquire one in FA.

The more you look at all the desperate needs on this team, the more it looks like patching the Titanic with duct-tape. :coffee:

there also has to be some understanding-- and yes, acceptance-- that it can't all be done in one season. . . they can absolutely do a lot of the heavy lifting this year IF they hire the right person, but it's not reasonable to expect them to find three starting defensive linemen, one if not two starting safeties, a TE and potentially a right tackle-- and think they're all going to be quality starters. . . especially if you start adding cornerbacks to the list as well. . .

we'll see what happens with cox (out of our hands), but assuming the next CBA has some resemblance to what we're used to, i see little choice but to franchise champ if we can't or don't intend to re-sign him. . . it will be better if we can also re-sign ryan harris to a reasonable deal, but you can't overpay for a guy with his injury history. . . realistically, we'll probably have to get another year out of renaldo hill and andre goodman. . . which won't be so bad if we actually improve the front seven. . .

since you can only turn over so many roster spots per year with quality replacements, it's important to pick your spots. . . this team glaringly needs help in the defensive front seven-- make that happen, and all of a sudden the DBs you've been cursing for the past few years will suddenly look like they can play a little. . .

it's ridiculous to say we need to pay $80 million for a corner. . . pittsburgh and baltimore most certainly don't pay their corners anything close to that, and they're both great defenses. . .

no team has all-pro's at every position, it's not feasible. . . having an $80 million corner hasn't made us a good defense-- if champ's not here next year, we need to replace his ability and production through a change in organizational philosophy, not by throwing money at it. . . unless that money's going to cullen jenkins. . .

[Juriga72]

The one thing that can be hidden is a corner.... ANY pass rush will cover most if not all corners. Its really hard to complete a pass when a large angry man is sitting on your head.

Front 7 needs to be gutted right now. MAYBE besides Doom... 1-2 are keepers. Thats all really