Xanders:McDaniels had the final say on all roster matters.

[turftoad]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81cffbc6/article/xanders-says-hed-welcome-empowered-gm-role-in-denver?module=HP_headlines


"Denver Broncos general manager Brian Xanders was Josh McDaniels' right-hand man, yet had his hands tied when it came to personnel decisions.

The Broncos clearly don't hold Xanders accountable for all the personnel moves that McDaniels made, many of which backfired and resulted in the team's worst slide in almost 40 years.

"We have a 17-person personnel staff that had been going through all those processes. But he had final say," Xanders said. "I'll just say I was respectful of the organizational setup."


Pretty much sums up how McFired single handedly destroyed this organization all by himself. :shocked:

[Tned]

I know. So much for those fans that were claiming that McDaniels couldn't be blamed for bad roster moves, because Xanders had equal or final say.

[GEM]

This is why I will reserve judgment on the organization holding onto Xander until I am able to judge him on his own merits. From what I have read from those in the Falcons organization and those who have seen his work outside of being a GM puppet here have been favorable.

He held a title, but not the real position. Just like our entire scouting department. They put their words in, but if they weren't in line with what McD wanted, he threw it out the window.

Single handedly. :tsk: How many people does it take to dismantle a once proud football franchise?

hmmm, let's find out....

uh one: owner...check
uh two: stupid freaking ELLIS...check
uh three: Napoleon Sucktitude...err I mean McDouche...check

THREE.

[silkamilkamonico]

Pretty much sums up how McFired single handedly destroyed this organization all by himself. :shocked:

It also doesn't speak much of anything for the intelliegnce level of the ownership in this organziation either.

[nevcraw]

Sorry - I don't give him a pass.

1. McD was his meal ticket to the big time so i doubt he fought too hard
2. He was still responsible for setting up the deals and scouting
3. A visonary tough as nails GM (think that DB in San Diego) is not going to pass the buck to the next guy.. as he did the first time a microphone was stuck in face.
4. Even without final say he was still complicit to the A bomb in the org.

[Tned]

Sorry - I don't give him a pass.

1. McD was his meal ticket to the big time so i doubt he fought too hard
2. He was still responsible for setting up the deals and scouting
3. A visonary tough as nails GM (think that DB in San Diego) is not going to pass the buck to the next guy.. as he did the first time a microphone was stuck in face.
4. Even without final say he was still complicit to the A bomb in the org.

I posted months ago, based on what the beat reporters said, that McDaniels basically had the same power as Shanahan.

It's hard to blame a guy for moves when he had not control to stop them.

[dogfish]

DON'T BUY THIS SHIT, PEOPLE!!


it's a transparent attempt to deflect blame from xanders. . . i don't care if he had final say or not, he was the right hand man for the worst stretch of broncos football in forty years, don't give him a ****ing promotion, FFS! this is joe ellis making his power play-- wormtongue whispering in pat's ear to keep his stooge in place rather than bringing in someone who knows what they're doing. . .

ellis loses influence if we hire a strong personnel executive from outside the franchise-- this is his attempt to stay in charge by getting his lackey promoted. . . then they can hire some stooge of a coach like jim fossil, and when he fails ellis can scapegoat not only the next coach, but xanders as well if he needs to. . . and here's your new guy-- same as the old guy, and we end up with another two or three years of the same incompetence. . .

i understand it's probably going to happen whether we like it or not, but at least don't swallow their bullshit excuses and act like xanders is suddenly a strong personnel guy instead of another bean counter and the personal stooge of joe ellis. . . firing mcdaniels didn't suddenly make the rest of the stiffs more competent. . .

[dogfish]

Sorry - I don't give him a pass.

1. McD was his meal ticket to the big time so i doubt he fought too hard
2. He was still responsible for setting up the deals and scouting
3. A visonary tough as nails GM (think that DB in San Diego) is not going to pass the buck to the next guy.. as he did the first time a microphone was stuck in face.
4. Even without final say he was still complicit to the A bomb in the org.

thank you. . .

[HORSEPOWER 56]

DON'T BUY THIS SHIT, PEOPLE!!


it's a transparent attempt to deflect blame from xanders. . . i don't care if he had final say or not, he was the right hand man for the worst stretch of broncos football in forty years, don't give him a ****ing promotion, FFS! this is joe ellis making his power play-- wormtongue whispering in pat's ear to keep his stooge in place rather than bringing in someone who knows what they're doing. . .

ellis loses influence if we hire a strong personnel executive from outside the franchise-- this is his attempt to stay in charge by getting his lackey promoted. . . then they can hire some stooge of a coach like jim fossil, and when he fails ellis can scapegoat not only the next coach, but xanders as well if he needs to. . . and here's your new guy-- same as the old guy, and we end up with another two or three years of the same incompetence. . .

i understand it's probably going to happen whether we like it or not, but at least don't swallow their bullshit excuses and act like xanders is suddenly a strong personnel guy instead of another bean counter and the personal stooge of joe ellis. . . firing mcdaniels didn't suddenly make the rest of the stiffs more competent. . .

Yikes! :shocked: Someone's passionate... I'll have what he's having! :beer:

[nevcraw]

I posted months ago, based on what the beat reporters said, that McDaniels basically had the same power as Shanahan.

It's hard to blame a guy for moves when he had not control to stop them.


I find it it extremely easy actually..

complicity [kəmˈplɪsɪtɪ]
n pl -ties
1. the fact or condition of being an accomplice, esp in a criminal act

and he if he could not stop them or deter or whatever - than IMO he is has no business being a GM of a multi-billion company.

[dogfish]

Yikes! :shocked: Someone's passionate... I'll have what he's having! :beer:

man, it just makes me sick in my guts to see them pull the wool over people's eyes and know that the same clowns that ran the organization into the ground are going to maintain control-- firing mcdaniels isn't a fart in the wind if the guys that hired him get ****in' promoted. . .

this whole "xanders is a really good guy, you should love xanders" campaign is just the groundwork as ellis prepares to buttsurf the franchise yet again, and i absolutely detest it. . . we need some gat damn football people in here, not the same clueless bean counters that ran the ship on the rocks in the first place. . . i'm going to be beyond disgusted if people accept xanders as our "new" executive. . .

[horsepig]

Yeah, it would surely appear to be house cleaning time.

[turftoad]

DON'T BUY THIS SHIT, PEOPLE!!


it's a transparent attempt to deflect blame from xanders. . . i don't care if he had final say or not, he was the right hand man for the worst stretch of broncos football in forty years, don't give him a ****ing promotion, FFS! this is joe ellis making his power play-- wormtongue whispering in pat's ear to keep his stooge in place rather than bringing in someone who knows what they're doing. . .

ellis loses influence if we hire a strong personnel executive from outside the franchise-- this is his attempt to stay in charge by getting his lackey promoted. . . then they can hire some stooge of a coach like jim fossil, and when he fails ellis can scapegoat not only the next coach, but xanders as well if he needs to. . . and here's your new guy-- same as the old guy, and we end up with another two or three years of the same incompetence. . .

i understand it's probably going to happen whether we like it or not, but at least don't swallow their bullshit excuses and act like xanders is suddenly a strong personnel guy instead of another bean counter and the personal stooge of joe ellis. . . firing mcdaniels didn't suddenly make the rest of the stiffs more competent. . .

I love your opinions Dog but have to dissagree with this one.

I don't think Xanders would come out and say this publicly if it wasn't true. If he was lying, it would jeopardize his job security. I do think his hands were tied and Napolian made sure his own opinion was the final say. IMO, if Xanders would have bucked McFired, he would got the axe himself just like the rest of the players/coach's got the axe.
That said, it wouldn't bother me if Xanders is gone. This is more about McFired than it is Xanders.

[dogfish]

toad, i don't doubt that mcdaniels did in fact have final say-- but that doesn't do anything to make xanders more competent. . . he needs to take some blame too, not come out of this smelling like a rose. . . i'm fine with the guy being retained in his current bean keeper role-- i just don't want him handed the keys to the franchise, which is what they're greasing the skids for here. . .

[Northman]

toad, i don't doubt that mcdaniels did in fact have final say-- but that doesn't do anything to make xanders more competent. . . he needs to take some blame too, not come out of this smelling like a rose. . . i'm fine with the guy being retained in his current bean keeper role-- i just don't want him handed the keys to the franchise, which is what they're greasing the skids for here. . .

Exactly. I believe 100% that McD had the final say on things but that just makes Xanders a sheeple and when your a GM there is no place for that. That just spells trouble and Xanders is guilty of being a yes man which makes him just as guilty. The fact that Bowlen and Ellis allowed this makes them guilty too.

[Elevation inc]

it doesnt matter who is coach or GM, its clear the new man in charge of denver is joe ellis and as long as that continues we will be fudged in dove valley for a very long time....It doesnt matter what happens that dude runs shit for bowlen and the fans will suffer as a result, it will probally take blacked out games for Bowlen to realize its joe and nothing else thats destroying this franchise....i feel sorry for john elway now knowing he has to deal with that tool more frequently.....i hope to god elway has the balls for a power push over joe ellis when the time comes....

[nevcraw]

Exactly. I believe 100% that McD had the final say on things but that just makes Xanders a sheeple and when your a GM there is no place for that. That just spells trouble and Xanders is guilty of being a yes man which makes him just as guilty. The fact that Bowlen and Ellis allowed this makes them guilty too.

sheeple = People + sheep :laugh:

[Elevation inc]

Exactly. I believe 100% that McD had the final say on things but that just makes Xanders a sheeple and when your a GM there is no place for that. That just spells trouble and Xanders is guilty of being a yes man which makes him just as guilty. The fact that Bowlen and Ellis allowed this makes them guilty too.

sorry folks dont buy it here....jim goodman probally wishes he was a yes man at the time....he would have been employed still......and then we could be looking at him as GM right now.....

[Tned]

I find it it extremely easy actually..

complicity [kəmˈplɪsɪtɪ]
n pl -ties
1. the fact or condition of being an accomplice, esp in a criminal act

and he if he could not stop them or deter or whatever - than IMO he is has no business being a GM of a multi-billion company.

He wasn't a GM in any real sense. He was a contract/cap guy. I posted this back in May.


Well, now that's Klis from DP.com and Schwab from Spings Gazette that have said that McDaniels, like Shanahan, has final say on personnel issues. Xanders, like Sundquist did, has input, but the final say is McDaniels. "Autocratic power" kind of says it all.

For what it's worth, I'm not part of the school of thought that thinks it's wrong for the head coach to have significant, if not total, power. However, there is no sense in pretending that Xanders is simply getting input from McDaniels, with Xanders ultimately making the decisions, because there is no evidence that that is the case.

The beat reporters were very clear in stating that McDaniels had the same type of power as Shanahan.

I have no idea if Xanders is capable of being a real NFL GM, but I'm not going to judge him by what McDaniels did. Their are three people to blame. McDaniels first and foremost, followed by the combo of Joe Ellis and Pat Bowlen for giving a young, rookie ego-maniac full control of the team.

[Elevation inc]

He wasn't a GM in any real sense. He was a contract/cap guy. I posted this back in May.



The beat reporters were very clear in stating that McDaniels had the same type of power as Shanahan.

I have no idea if Xanders is capable of being a real NFL GM, but I'm not going to judge him by what McDaniels did. Their are three people to blame. McDaniels first and foremost, followed by the combo of Joe Ellis and Pat Bowlen for giving a young, rookie ego-maniac full control of the team.

:beer::beer::beer::salute::salute::salute:

[turftoad]

sorry folks dont buy it here....jim goodman probally wishes he was a yes man at the time....he would have been employed still......and then we could be looking at him as GM right now.....

My thoughts exactly. If you weren't a McFired "yes man" you were shown the door.

[topscribe]

I don't disagree with the unloading of McDaniels. I don't believe the Broncos
were given a choice. But I also believe it should start at the top (well, as
close as possible - Mr. Bowlen is untouchable, of course). I know it can't be
done during the season, but come the offseason, I personally would like to
see Ellis and Xanders looking for jobs elsewhere . . .

JMO

-----

[nevcraw]

He wasn't a GM in any real sense. He was a contract/cap guy. I posted this back in May.



The beat reporters were very clear in stating that McDaniels had the same type of power as Shanahan.

I have no idea if Xanders is capable of being a real NFL GM, but I'm not going to judge him by what McDaniels did. Their are three people to blame. McDaniels first and foremost, followed by the combo of Joe Ellis and Pat Bowlen for giving a young, rookie ego-maniac full control of the team.

I can't find it but I remeber reading that Xanders reported to Bowlen. could be wrong.
so -- if what you say is true - and we are talking about a mulit-billion dollar company with BOD's, compliance people, HR, etc. would allow a strucuture for a 6 figure salary guy with a GM title to basically have no real roll but bean count and get McD a sandwich.. and if that's true -- then you are willing give the same guy a shot at the real deal.. I say no way...

[claymore]

Our later round picks seem like the better of the bunch. Maybe Zanders was in charge of that.

[Tned]

I can't find it but I remeber reading that Xanders reported to Bowlen. could be wrong.
so -- if what you say is true - and we are talking about a mulit-billion dollar company with BOD's, compliance people, HR, etc. would allow a strucuture for a 6 figure salary guy with a GM title to basically have no real roll but bean count and get McD a sandwich.. and if that's true -- then you are willing give the same guy a shot at the real deal.. I say no way...

It's the same structure Bowlen has had in Denver for a long time. He originally said he was going to have a real GM position, but clearly became infatuated with McDaniels and gave him Shanahan-type power when he fired the Goodmans.

[GEM]

It's the same structure Bowlen has had in Denver for a long time. He originally said he was going to have a real GM position, but clearly became infatuated with McDaniels and gave him Shanahan-type power when he fired the Goodmans.

Was it Bowlen or Ellis that were infatuated with McDaniels. I remember Bowlen being very stern that no coach would have that kind of power again....then Ellis got McDaniels hired and all that Bowlen had said went out the window. I don't think Bowlen is senile, I don't think he's crazy. It sounds more like he's got a really bad football guy in his ear. Ellis is a moron when it comes to running an NFL franchise. Unfortunately, Bowlen has valued him far too highly.

Like Elevation said...until Ellis is gone, we're in for the same amount of bullshit.

[nevcraw]

My thoughts exactly. If you weren't a McFired "yes man" you were shown the door.

this may sound sarcastic but It's not..

It would be real easy to wrap it up in a neat litlle bow, but it's not and cannot be this simple in a Organization id this size and structure.

Let me explain it this way -- Xanders for all acounts is well liked acoplished young executive with bright future and mid executive level postion - he was some how (another possible place of complicity) the benifactor of a promotion based on the Goodman's demise and an MCd's rocket ship. This was his ticket to the corner office..
He wasn't a MCD yes man because he had to be to keep his job -- He was a McD yes man because McD got him his big break. Either way to me it does not matter.. I don't want this type of weakness in a GM.

[Tned]

Was it Bowlen or Ellis that were infatuated with McDaniels. I remember Bowlen being very stern that no coach would have that kind of power again....then Ellis got McDaniels hired and all that Bowlen had said went out the window. I don't think Bowlen is senile, I don't think he's crazy. It sounds more like he's got a really bad football guy in his ear. Ellis is a moron when it comes to running an NFL franchise. Unfortunately, Bowlen has valued him far too highly.

Like Elevation said...until Ellis is gone, we're in for the same amount of bullshit.

Let's remember, and I know I am a broken record in this regard, it wasn't Ellis that "got McDaniels hired" it was Bowlen. It was well reported that after the initial interview that Bowlen had with McDaniels that Bowlen decided he was the guy. Ellis, Xanders and the Goodmans (or maybe one of them) went back for a follow up interview and to finalize the deal, but McDaniels was the guy.

As to who gave McDaniels the power, clearly Bowlen was involved, because plenty of posters give McDaniels a pass on trading Cutler by pointing out that Bowlen said to do it -- not Ellis.

There is zero evidence that Ellis gave McDaniels the power.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

toad, i don't doubt that mcdaniels did in fact have final say-- but that doesn't do anything to make xanders more competent. . . he needs to take some blame too, not come out of this smelling like a rose. . . i'm fine with the guy being retained in his current bean keeper role-- i just don't want him handed the keys to the franchise, which is what they're greasing the skids for here. . .

Yeah, that's what I think most of us are worried about, too. More lunatics running the damned asylum in Denver...

[nevcraw]

It's the same structure Bowlen has had in Denver for a long time.

then by all means promote the weak ass yes man with no balls and no say into Captain Unicorn Pixie Dust Sprinkler - since GM really doesn't mean anything.

[Northman]

sorry folks dont buy it here....jim goodman probally wishes he was a yes man at the time....he would have been employed still......and then we could be looking at him as GM right now.....

Goodman > Xanders

[Tned]

then by all means promote the weak ass yes man with no balls and no say into Captain Unicorn Pixie Dust Sprinkler - since GM really doesn't mean anything.

This post makes absolutely no sense.

[nevcraw]

This post makes absolutely no sense.

have you not not been making a case that -

1. GM title in Denver means nothing?

2. Xander should not be held acountable for anything that went down under McD?

yes or no?

[dogfish]

Like Elevation said...until Ellis is gone, we're in for the same amount of bullshit.

no doubt. . .


:yardog:

[Tned]

have you not not been making a case that -

1. GM title in Denver means nothing?

2. Xander should not be held acountable for anything that went down under McD?

yes or no?

I haven't said anything about the GM "title". I have talked about the facts as we know them, rather than the emotional outbursts, revisions and WATs (wild ass theories).

[Northman]

I haven't said anything about the GM "title". I have talked about the facts as we know them, rather than the emotional outbursts, revisions and WATs (wild ass theories).

Im not sure there are any wild ass theories. Xanadu admits that he was basically a yes man to McD's final decision. Regardless of the power that was granted to him as a GM your expected to act like one. When you dont bother to even challenge the decisions that the HC makes it means your easily as culpable as the two guys who put you in that position.

[Tned]

Im not sure there are any wild ass theories. Xanadu admits that he was basically a yes man to McD's final decision. Regardless of the power that was granted to him as a GM your expected to act like one. When you dont bother to even challenge the decisions that the HC makes it means your easily as culpable as the two guys who put you in that position.

Come on, that's ridiculous. First, we don't know if he "didn't even challenge" McDaniels. McDaniels had final say, just like Shanahan did. As was stated last week, in a couple cases McDaniels made moves without even consulting or telling Xanders.

As to the wild ass theories, they are people 'guessing' as to who is or was making decisions in Denver. Once again, the incorrect "Ellis hired McDaniels" statement was thrown out. Someone says that Ellis gave McDaniels the "full power". There is zero evidence about this. While he may be lying, the only 'fact' we have is that in the press conference with Ellis he said that Bowlen gave McDaniels the power, because he had ALWAYS, in his 27 years in Denver, given his head coach that level of control.

I'm sorry, I abhor revisionist history or stating opinion and theory as fact. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE discussing and debating, which is large part is just tossing opinions around, but when we revise history and ignore facts and try and pass off theories as facts, I don't buy in.

[nevcraw]

I haven't said anything about the GM "title". I have talked about the facts as we know them, rather than the emotional outbursts, revisions and WATs (wild ass theories).

Xanders has the GM title and that's what the discussion was about - wether or not he should stay or become the "real GM". you responded to my posts - with recolections of a beat writer comments - hardly facts.. but whatever.

and i was trying to be funny with the discussion -hardly an emotional outburst - I don't take this stuff that seriosly. or were you just trying to embarass an oposing viewpoint.

screw it it. what was a good debate and discussion now has turned into name calling..

[Tned]

Xanders has the GM title and that's what the discussion was about - wether or not he should stay or become the "real GM". you responded to my posts - with recolections of a beat writer comments - hardly facts.. but whatever.

and i was trying to be funny with the discussion -hardly an emotional outburst - I don't take this stuff that seriosly. or were you just trying to embarass an oposing viewpoint.

screw it it. what was a good debate and discussion now has turned into name calling..

The only facts we have are the people in Dove Valley every day stating that McDaniels had the same type of power as Shanahan. That Xanders could give input to McDaniels, but McDaniels had final say.

Ellis confirmed that in the press conference and interviews.
Xander confirmed that in the interview.

Now, I think that was a really bad mistake by Ellis and Bowlen and something Bowlen said he wasn't going to do after firing Shanahan. However, it makes no sense for blaming a guy (Xanders) for not stopping player moves he had not authority to stop. That makes zero sense.

As to the "title" of GM, that's a game of semantics, and I am not interested in playing.

[Elevation inc]

Goodman > Xanders

i dont disagree here at all with goodman being better than xanders...MCD getting rid of jim goodman go was probally the stupidest thing he did in his tenure....and he did it becasue goodman didnt like the whole cutler thing and wasnt a yes man, but even someone cool and bad ass like goodman can get fired when his hands are tired, MCD proved he would do it.....why fault Xanders for keeping his mouth shut, when goodman got the axe and he was the whole reason we even had good draft choices the last few years...no xanders did what any smart person in that role does....SURVIVE!!!!

[Northman]

i dont disagree here at all with goodman being better than xanders...MCD getting rid of jim goodman go was probally the stupidest thing he did in his tenure....and he did it becasue goodman didnt like the whole cutler thing and wasnt a yes man, but even someone cool and bad ass like goodman can get fired when his hands are tired, MCD proved he would do it.....why fault Xanders for keeping his mouth shut, when goodman got the axe and he was the whole reason we even had good draft choices the last few years...no xanders did what any smart person in that role does....SURVIVE!!!!

And thats where you and i disagree i guess.

I have the utmost respect for Goodman BECAUSE he wasnt a yes man. Because he actually had the balls to stand up to something he didnt believe and also not what he signed up for when doing his duties with the Broncos. When you do something just to survive with a team instead of actually performing the job duties that are expected than your no good to that team. Sure, losing Goodman and Nolan sucks ass but i totally respect them for not budging on their ethics and their responsibilities in their respective positions. You have to remember, thats their reputation on the line.

[turftoad]

And thats where you and i disagree i guess.

I have the utmost respect for Goodman BECAUSE he wasnt a yes man. Because he actually had the balls to stand up to something he didnt believe and also not what he signed up for when doing his duties with the Broncos. When you do something just to survive with a team instead of actually performing the job duties that are expected than your no good to that team. Sure, losing Goodman and Nolan sucks ass but i totally respect them for not budging on their ethics and their responsibilities in their respective positions. You have to remember, thats their reputation on the line.

Ahhhh, but...... we have no idea what Xanders responsibilies were.

[Tned]

Ahhhh, but...... we have no idea what Xanders responsibilies were.

Exactly. The best we can tell, the Goodmans were fired because of disagreements between McDaniels on player moves. At that point, all indications (beat writers, Ellis, Xanders) are that McDaniels was given full control of player moves, and Xanders was moved into a contract/cap role, and to provide input to McDaniels.

Based on that, why, pray tell, would he be attacked for doing the job that Bowlen/Ellis gave him? :confused:

[Elevation inc]

And thats where you and i disagree i guess.

I have the utmost respect for Goodman BECAUSE he wasnt a yes man. Because he actually had the balls to stand up to something he didnt believe and also not what he signed up for when doing his duties with the Broncos. When you do something just to survive with a team instead of actually performing the job duties that are expected than your no good to that team. Sure, losing Goodman and Nolan sucks ass but i totally respect them for not budging on their ethics and their responsibilities in their respective positions. You have to remember, thats their reputation on the line.


like i said i love goodman and losing him was shitty, but just becasue xanders didnt say f'u to MCd doesnt mean he cant do the job either, no one has any clue if he can or not including you and me...good or bad...it simply means he probally didnt know what the F had just come to dove valley but he wanted to stay with denver so he wasnt gonna risk getting fired by telling a napolen complex freak to piss off....lol

[Northman]

Ahhhh, but...... we have no idea what Xanders responsibilies were.


He was the GM. :confused:

[Northman]

like i said i love goodman and losing him was shitty, but just becasue xanders didnt say f'u to MCd doesnt mean he cant do the job either, no one has any clue if he can or not including you and me...good or bad...it simply means he probally didnt know what the F had just come to dove valley but he wanted to stay with denver so he wasnt gonna risk getting fired by telling a napolen complex freak to piss off....lol

Oh i have no doubt he did all he did to save his job. I just cant respect a yes man personally. If i felt that McD was making horrible moves i would of created an uproar with Ellis and Bowlen. If they didnt like it and supported the HC than i would of resigned. There's no point for me to be a GM if im not going to have the power to be the GM.

[turftoad]

He was the GM. :confused:

In name only. If he was a true GM wouldn't he have the final say in personel decisions.

Thats what I;m saying, he didn't. So.... we don't know what Xanders responsibilies were as the GM in Denver. Under Bowlen, GM responsibilies are evidently different than they are with other organizations.

[Tned]

He was the GM. :confused:

Come on North, you know that in Shanahan's era that the Broncos GM did not have the final power that other GM's do around the league. Same with Xanders in this situation.

I'm in NO WAY sold on Xanders as the GM going forward, but to blame him for not being given the authority to stop McDaniels, I just don't understand.

[turftoad]

Oh i have no doubt he did all he did to save his job. I just cant respect a yes man personally. If i felt that McD was making horrible moves i would of created an uproar with Ellis and Bowlen. If they didnt like it and supported the HC than i would of resigned. There's no point for me to be a GM if im not going to have the power to be the GM.

I don't know how much Xanders makes but I'm sure it's not even close to chicken feed. That said, he's fairly inexperienced, I'm sure he didn't want to see the unemployment line without another job lined up.

[Northman]

Come on North, you know that in Shanahan's era that the Broncos GM did not have the final power that other GM's do around the league. Same with Xanders in this situation.

I'm in NO WAY sold on Xanders as the GM going forward, but to blame him for not being given the authority to stop McDaniels, I just don't understand.


Well first lets clear something up.

Im not hanging all this on Xanders and have stated so MANY times already. Secondly, i know what went on when Shanahan was here and guess what? IT FAILED. The GM failed then just like the GM has failed now. There's plenty of blame to go around but again, when your more concerned about saving your job rather than sticking by your ethics i have a huge problem with that. This team needs to get people in here who are going to perform their job duties they way they are meant to be and it starts by Bowlen digging his head out of his ass and putting together a solid team.

[Tned]

Well first lets clear something up.

Im not hanging all this on Xanders and have stated so MANY times already. Secondly, i know what went on when Shanahan was here and guess what? IT FAILED. The GM failed then just like the GM has failed now. There's plenty of blame to go around but again, when your more concerned about saving your job rather than sticking by your ethics i have a huge problem with that. This team needs to get people in here who are going to perform their job duties they way they are meant to be and it starts by Bowlen digging his head out of his ass and putting together a solid team.

I honestly do not understand this: "There's plenty of blame to go around but again, when your more concerned about saving your job rather than sticking by your ethics i have a huge problem with that."

His job was to manage contracts and cap, and give McDaniels input, while McDaniels had final and full say in player decisions, not even consulting with Xanders on some.

So, again, I honestly do not get the statement you made.

[jhildebrand]

like i said i love goodman and losing him was shitty, but just becasue xanders didnt say f'u to MCd doesnt mean he cant do the job either, no one has any clue if he can or not including you and me...good or bad...it simply means he probally didnt know what the F had just come to dove valley but he wanted to stay with denver so he wasnt gonna risk getting fired by telling a napolen complex freak to piss off....lol

The problem is a GM needs to have those qualities and stones to be a real and good GM in this league. X all but cowered and backed down to McD.

[Northman]

I honestly do not understand this: "There's plenty of blame to go around but again, when your more concerned about saving your job rather than sticking by your ethics i have a huge problem with that."

His job was to manage contracts and cap, and give McDaniels input, while McDaniels had final and full say in player decisions, not even consulting with Xanders on some.

So, again, I honestly do not get the statement you made.

Then you dont get it.

[turftoad]

Well first lets clear something up.

Im not hanging all this on Xanders and have stated so MANY times already. Secondly, i know what went on when Shanahan was here and guess what? IT FAILED. The GM failed then just like the GM has failed now. There's plenty of blame to go around but again, when your more concerned about saving your job rather than sticking by your ethics i have a huge problem with that. This team needs to get people in here who are going to perform their job duties they way they are meant to be and it starts by Bowlen digging his head out of his ass and putting together a solid team.

There lies the problem under Bowlen.

Sundquist had as much say with the team under Shanahan as Xanders did under McFired. Which wasn't much. Not that of a true GM for sure.

[turftoad]

The problem is a GM needs to have those qualities and stones to be a real and good GM in this league. X all but cowered and backed down to McD.

Thats cuz McFired was more or less his boss.

[Tned]

Then you dont get it.

Care to explain? If I'm somehow missing something that you guys see or know, then I would love to understand. I just don't get how you are trashing a guy for doing the job he was asked to do.

[jhildebrand]

His job was to manage contracts and cap, and give McDaniels input, while McDaniels had final and full say in player decisions, not even consulting with Xanders on some.

I think he was supposed to have more power once the Goodman's were removed. IIRC, I think there was a write up on it at the time. The Broncos sold the Goodman's removal citing the fact that McD and Xanders are very close and work well together.

Now, Xanders was nothing more than an innocent bystander who had no say whatsoever? :confused: Seems like a spineless slug saying anything to keep the butter train moving.

I am in complete agreement with Dog on this one.

Ellis has been saying and doing some very unique things as of late. Ellis has gone on the record several times stating his affection for the NE way. He had no problem receiving a lot of credit when this team was 6-0 for the McD hire. Only now is he trying to distance himself from all of that. Even went so far as to say he isn't comfortable with his name in the press so much! Then there is the Elway deal. He can see the writing on the wall and is kiniving anyway he can.

I don't mind Ellis in the organization purely from a business standpoint. However, the guy on the football side makes no sense.

[nevcraw]

Care to explain? If I'm somehow missing something that you guys see or know, then I would love to understand. I just don't get how you are trashing a guy for doing the job he was asked to do.

Because no matter what he is not a victim.

He was either incompetent or or weak or both. either way he's not my guy for a better future.

[jhildebrand]

Thats cuz McFired was more or less his boss.

But like I replied to TNED. I recall the Broncos citing Xanders and McDaniels' close relationship being a positive and making the Goodmans expendable.

Now all of a sudden Xanders had no say? Now all of a sudden he was simply there? Then why pay the guy? Why have him there? If Xanders is that weak, then I don't want him anywhere near a real GM position anyway!

[Tned]

Because no matter what he is not a victim.

He was either incompetent or or weak or both. either way he's not my guy for a better future.


I think he was supposed to have more power once the Goodman's were removed. IIRC, I think there was a write up on it at the time. The Broncos sold the Goodman's removal citing the fact that McD and Xanders are very close and work well together.

Now, Xanders was nothing more than an innocent bystander who had no say whatsoever? :confused: Seems like a spineless slug saying anything to keep the butter train moving.



Yea, and I have posted where the Denver beat writers early in this poast offseason stated that McDaniels had Shanahan like power, which Ellis and Xanders recently confirmed.

Tha name calling and rhetoric is fine, but there is zero indication that Xanders ever had the power to stop McDaniels scorched earth approach to 'fixing' the roster. I have no problem blaming Ellis and Bowlen for giving McDaniels that power, I just don't get all the nonsense about Xanders being spineless, having no balls, etc.

[Tned]

But like I replied to TNED. I recall the Broncos citing Xanders and McDaniels' close relationship being a positive and making the Goodmans expendable.

Now all of a sudden Xanders had no say? Now all of a sudden he was simply there? Then why pay the guy? Why have him there? If Xanders is that weak, then I don't want him anywhere near a real GM position anyway!

Where exactly does "close relationship" say that Xanders had the power to over-rule McDaniels? :confused:

[turftoad]

But like I replied to TNED. I recall the Broncos citing Xanders and McDaniels' close relationship being a positive and making the Goodmans expendable.

Now all of a sudden Xanders had no say? Now all of a sudden he was simply there? Then why pay the guy? Why have him there? If Xanders is that weak, then I don't want him anywhere near a real GM position anyway!

In the real world, when someone is your boss and you butt heads with him in a big way you are a goner.
Goodman butted heads with McFired, he was excuses. On comes Xanders. Got along with McFired because he had to or else he would have been gonzo. He knew and respected the fact that McFired was more or less his boss and did the job he was hired to do. Which..... was not the job of a true GM.

[Northman]

Because no matter what he is not a victim.

He was either incompetent or or weak or both. either way he's not my guy for a better future.

Pretty much and only took a couple of sentences to say. Gracias. :beer::lol:

[jhildebrand]

Where exactly does "close relationship" say that Xanders had the power to over-rule McDaniels? :confused:

The article mentioned that they were counterparts i.e. no one was more powerful than the other. If that were truly the case, then Xanders should have had NO PROBLEM standing up to McD-in any instance he felt necessary. The fact is Xanders wasn't on the record UNTIL NOW trying to distance himself from McDaniels. Why do you suppose that is? :confused:

The few snippets of Xanders quotes to the press, which increased in the end, were largely supportive of McD.

Like Ellis, only now is Xanders trying to publicly distance himself from McDaniels and it is clear why.


Yea, and I have posted where the Denver beat writers early in this poast offseason stated that McDaniels had Shanahan like power, which Ellis and Xanders recently confirmed.

Tha name calling and rhetoric is fine, but there is zero indication that Xanders ever had the power to stop McDaniels scorched earth approach to 'fixing' the roster. I have no problem blaming Ellis and Bowlen for giving McDaniels that power, I just don't get all the nonsense about Xanders being spineless, having no balls, etc.

In the end, Ellis then Bowlen deserve the blame for allowing the situation to become what it did. They obviously didn't learn the Shanahan/Sundquist lesson.

Finally, I have been one of the posters, who for the longest time, that stated McD had complete power and control only to listen to the crap that Xanders was just as involved. My posting history will support that.

The Broncos are selling a bad bill of goods here and that is what I am attacking. Either Xanders was truly McD's counterpart as they told us when the Goodmans were removed-and if so, he never stood up to McD despite being his equal! That reflects poorly on Xanders.

Or the Broncos were full of crap and were simply feeding the fans shit and Xanders was truly powerless. If that is the case I am not sure why he would agree to go along with that. He would risk a very bad reputation that could cost him another job in future.

I am going more after the FO/Ownership than X. However, I don't find X to be as innocent as he proclaims. I think Dog is spot on here that he provides a bit of additional power/allegience to Ellis in a time where Ellis probably feels very vulnerable.

[Tned]

The article mentioned that they were counterparts i.e. no one was more powerful than the other. If that were truly the case, then Xanders should have had NO PROBLEM standing up to McD-in any instance he felt necessary. The fact is Xanders wasn't on the record UNTIL NOW trying to distance himself from McDaniels. Why do you suppose that is? :confused:

The few snippets of Xanders quotes to the press, which increased in the end, were largely supportive of McD.

Like Ellis, only now is Xanders trying to publicly distance himself from McDaniels and it is clear why.

In the end, Ellis then Bowlen deserve the blame for allowing the situation to become what it did. They obviously didn't learn the Shanahan/Sundquist lesson.

Finally, I have been one of the posters, who for the longest time, that stated McD had complete power and control only to listen to the crap that Xanders was just as involved. My posting history will support that.

The Broncos are selling a bad bill of goods here and that is what I am attacking. Either Xanders was truly McD's counterpart as they told us when the Goodmans were removed-and if so, he never stood up to McD despite being his equal! That reflects poorly on Xanders.

Or the Broncos were full of crap and were simply feeding the fans shit and Xanders was truly powerless. If that is the case I am not sure why he would agree to go along with that. He would risk a very bad reputation that could cost him another job in future.

I am going more after the FO/Ownership than X. However, I don't find X to be as innocent as he proclaims. I think Dog is spot on here that he provides a bit of additional power/allegience to Ellis in a time where Ellis probably feels very vulnerable.

First, I would have to see the article you refer to, and who was quoted.

I know that the beat reporters, in press and on Twitter, were clear in stating that McDaniels had full control.

The point you make, that until recently, Xanders made virtually no comments to the press about player moves, is a pretty good indicator on its own.

Anyway, if Xanders needs to be the new whipping boy, I guess have at it. I'm not invested in his career, so whip it, whip it good...

[jhildebrand]

In the real world, when someone is your boss and you butt heads with him in a big way you are a goner.
Goodman butted heads with McFired, he was excuses. On comes Xanders. Got along with McFired because he had to or else he would have been gonzo.

I don't disagree, Turftoad. That is my point in all of this. Xanders seems all too willing to go along with whatever the FO/Ownership are selling simply to keep a paycheck.


He never countered that he was McD's counterpart when Goodman was released. He allowed people to think, for whatever reason, that he had as much say or input as McD. Now he is going along with a completely different story and trying to sell something different.



He knew and respected the fact that McFired was more or less his boss and did the job he was hired to do. Which..... was not the job of a true GM.

That has been my posting about X the entire time. He is simply here as a cap and contract structure guy. That is his main role. It was what they cited when they hired him out of ATL.

I would rather him make waves and risk being fired by McD for it than simply be a willing patsy this entire time.

My entire stance is Xanders is a cap and contract guy and should remain as such. To try and sell him to the fanbase as a possible, and real GM is a joke. Personally, I think that is what is happening to a degree. The Broncos are testing the water. That and Ellis is trying to keep as much influence and allegiences as he can knowing he is vulnerable!

[Tned]

I don't disagree, Turftoad. That is my point in all of this. Xanders seems all too willing to go along with whatever the FO/Ownership are selling simply to keep a paycheck.


He never countered that he was McD's counterpart when Goodman was released. He allowed people to think, for whatever reason, that he had as much say or input as McD. Now he is going along with a completely different story and trying to sell something different.



That has been my posting about X the entire time. He is simply here as a cap and contract structure guy. That is his main role. It was what they cited when they hired him out of ATL.

I would rather him make waves and risk being fired by McD for it than simply be a willing patsy this entire time.

My entire stance is Xanders is a cap and contract guy and should remain as such. To try and sell him to the fanbase as a possible, and real GM is a joke. Personally, I think that is what is happening to a degree. The Broncos are testing the water. That and Ellis is trying to keep as much influence and allegiences as he can knowing he is vulnerable!

Whoop, whoop, whoop.....

Grassy knoll sighting...

[jhildebrand]

First, I would have to see the article you refer to, and who was quoted.

I know that the beat reporters, in press and on Twitter, were clear in stating that McDaniels had full control.

The point you make, that until recently, Xanders made virtually no comments to the press about player moves, is a pretty good indicator on its own.

Anyway, if Xanders needs to be the new whipping boy, I guess have at it. I'm not invested in his career, so whip it, whip it good...

I'll look for the articles. Its not that I care about Xanders because in the end I don't. I care more about Ellis. I am not wanting Ellis gone but simply reassigned back to the business side of operations.

It is painfully clear, especially with the way Ellis has been handling the Elway talk as of late, that there is a major power struggle inside the organization and it is centered around Ellis.

My only point with Xanders is he seems to be willing to go with anything despite the cost to his personal reputation and potential future. If that is the case, do you want him as a true GM?

[Northman]

Getting rid of Xanders and Ellis would work for me.

[Tned]

I'll look for the articles. Its not that I care about Xanders because in the end I don't. I care more about Ellis. I am not wanting Ellis gone but simply reassigned back to the business side of operations.

It is painfully clear, especially with the way Ellis has been handling the Elway talk as of late, that there is a major power struggle inside the organization and it is centered around Ellis.

My only point with Xanders is he seems to be willing to go with anything despite the cost to his personal reputation and potential future. If that is the case, do you want him as a true GM?

Really, it's obvious? :confused:

[nevcraw]

Yea, and I have posted where the Denver beat writers early in this poast offseason stated that McDaniels had Shanahan like power, which Ellis and Xanders recently confirmed.

Tha name calling and rhetoric is fine, but there is zero indication that Xanders ever had the power to stop McDaniels scorched earth approach to 'fixing' the roster. I have no problem blaming Ellis and Bowlen for giving McDaniels that power, I just don't get all the nonsense about Xanders being spineless, having no balls, etc.

He was promoted to position of more power based on company structure - to your point he really had no power - In my world that is a pawn.
(not his fault- or is it?)
If he knew this going and was just glad to be there then he was incompetent of holding that job.
If he found this out later and still remained in his job (meaning didn't force them to fire him or quit) then he was weak..

and no he's not my whipping boy - but he does not get a pass..

[turftoad]

I'll look for the articles. Its not that I care about Xanders because in the end I don't. I care more about Ellis. I am not wanting Ellis gone but simply reassigned back to the business side of operations.

It is painfully clear, especially with the way Ellis has been handling the Elway talk as of late, that there is a major power struggle inside the organization and it is centered around Ellis.

My only point with Xanders is he seems to be willing to go with anything despite the cost to his personal reputation and potential future. If that is the case, do you want him as a true GM?

I don't know. :confused: I doubt it but then again, we don't know what he can really do as a true GM. I believe he was only doing his job and what Bowlen told him was the description of said job.

[Tned]

He was promoted to position of more power based on company structure - to your point he really had no power - In my world that is a pawn.
(not his fault- or is it?)
If he knew this going and was just glad to be there then he was incompetent of holding that job.
If he found this out later and still remained in his job (meaning didn't force them to fire him or quit) then he was weak..

and no he's not my whipping boy - but he does not get a pass..

Sorry, this makes no sense.

You do realize that different companies have different job descriptions for any given title, right?

In one company, VP of sales might be over every aspect of sales, including marketing, advertising, salesforce, etc.

In another, it might only be in charge of the sales force. Etc.

To say he is a pawn for accepting a role that appears to have been to work on contracts and cap issues, makes no sense.

[jhildebrand]

Whoop, whoop, whoop.....

Grassy knoll sighting...

:rolleyes:

Yes, because what I am suggesting is so much of a stretch that you need to belittle it as a conspiracy theory as opposed to take it head on. Childish tactics aside, I will oblige your pettiness.

Furthermore, following this team and being on these boards as much as you and I are, I would think you could recall the articles I am referencing. They have been used several times before. But will play the silly little link/article/quote game :rolleyes:


In McDaniels' introductory news conference, he said Goodman would have final say on personnel matters.

Shortly after that, however, Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said the team decided to promote Xanders, and not Jeff Goodman, from assistant general manager to general manager.

I guess in your world a manager is above General Manager?



At the time, Bowlen said he believed Jeff Goodman wanted to move on. Bowlen also said he believed it would have been difficult for Jim Goodman to stay after Xanders' promotion. Some in the organization have said the Broncos wanted Jim Goodman to stay, but it didn't happen, and Jim Goodman has never really expounded on the events publicly.

That left Xanders and McDaniels directing things.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16810339#ixzz18aia3


"Really, what I was interested in doing was resetting the way we do business around here," Bowlen said Thursday in a telephone interview. "Brian Xanders was what I considered a true general manager."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11693597


Again to my point that Xanders seems willing to simply go along with whatever anybody in the fo/ownership want.

He is considered a TRUE GM? But now that josh is fired he couldn't speak up or stand up to McDaniels for fear of losing his job?

Then I don't want that as a GM even if it meant him losing his job! It tells me he would rather take a paycheck then do what he has been hired and touted-in the media-to do.

Oh and let's not forget his quote




I am excited to work together with Coach McDaniels and put our collective resources into winning football games.

Xanders obviously knew how the press worked back then. He was supportive of McD to the very end! Only now is he the innocent bystander :lol:

As to my point that he was simply a cap and contract guy!



Xanders was hired last May as an assistant GM after spending 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons. His expertise is in the business side of personnel matters, especially in dealing with the salary cap and contract negotiations. Though Xanders does have experience in player evaluation, Bowlen said he expects to hire someone else — likely someone with prior connections to either Xanders or McDaniels — to be in charge of scouting.

Funny, they didn't hire someone else. They obviously felt comfortable with McDaniels and Xanders working relationship. If they hadn't I would think we would have seen that hire made. They didn't hire someone and Xanders never spoke up or made known any differences UNTIL McD was gone. Just like Ellis is trying to distance himself from McD now.


Xanders, who negotiated some of Denver's bigger contracts last season, is now in charge of all player personnel issues, including college scouting, pro personnel and labor negotiations with the Broncos.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80eb6f81&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true


"He headed up this entire process. He's up there right now," McDaniels said of Xanders. "He's really led to some prospects, organized the draft board, all the scouting trips. He sent the coaches on a few visits."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12223334#ixzz18aobrJbM



Make up your mind. Xanders has done nothing; or, at a minimum, he was in lockstep with McDaniels and simply too weak-DESPITE PUBLICLY BEING NAMED GM-to stand up to McDaniels or agreed with the moves as they were made.

Either way, I still dont see anything that would excite me as a fan should Xanders be given more power.

[jhildebrand]

Really, it's obvious? :confused:

It isn't to you? The Elway back to the organization was moving quickly and going to happen very fast then things stalled out. Who was the first on record? Ellis. What were his comments? Distancing the idea of Elway being a major power in the organization. Only then did Elway come out and clarify his interests. There was another post I read that Bowlen's family (brother or kid don't recall) that indicated they wanted Ellis gone.

[jhildebrand]

He was promoted to position of more power based on company structure - to your point he really had no power - In my world that is a pawn.
(not his fault- or is it?)
If he knew this going and was just glad to be there then he was incompetent of holding that job.
If he found this out later and still remained in his job (meaning didn't force them to fire him or quit) then he was weak..

and no he's not my whipping boy - but he does not get a pass..

Well said :salute:

[Tned]

:rolleyes:

Yes, because what I am suggesting is so much of a stretch that you need to belittle it as a conspiracy theory as opposed to take it head on. Childish tactics aside, I will oblige your pettiness.

Furthermore, following this team and being on these boards as much as you and I are, I would think you could recall the articles I am referencing. They have been used several times before. But will play the silly little link/article/quote game :rolleyes:



I guess in your world a manager is above General Manager?





Again to my point that Xanders seems willing to simply go along with whatever anybody in the fo/ownership want.

He is considered a TRUE GM? But now that josh is fired he couldn't speak up or stand up to McDaniels for fear of losing his job?

Then I don't want that as a GM even if it meant him losing his job! It tells me he would rather take a paycheck then do what he has been hired and touted-in the media-to do.

Oh and let's not forget his quote



Xanders obviously knew how the press worked back then. He was supportive of McD to the very end! Only now is he the innocent bystander :lol:

As to my point that he was simply a cap and contract guy!



Funny, they didn't hire someone else. They obviously felt comfortable with McDaniels and Xanders working relationship. If they hadn't I would think we would have seen that hire made. They didn't hire someone and Xanders never spoke up or made known any differences UNTIL McD was gone. Just like Ellis is trying to distance himself from McD now.





Make up your mind. Xanders has done nothing; or, at a minimum, he was in lockstep with McDaniels and simply too weak-DESPITE PUBLICLY BEING NAMED GM-to stand up to McDaniels or agreed with the moves as they were made.

Either way, I still dont see anything that would excite me as a fan should Xanders be given more power.

I don't know if Xanders was originally given final say in personnel decisions, as Bowlen's "true GM" statement would indicate, but would was very clear is that sometime shortly after that (it not at that time), McDaniels was given final say in player moves.

The only real place you and I disagree is that you are calling Xanders all kinds of names for DOING what his bosses, and the owner of the organization, told him to do.

[nevcraw]

Sorry, this makes no sense.

You do realize that different companies have different job descriptions for any given title, right?

In one company, VP of sales might be over every aspect of sales, including marketing, advertising, salesforce, etc.

In another, it might only be in charge of the sales force. Etc.

To say he is a pawn for accepting a role that appears to have been to work on contracts and cap issues, makes no sense.


It makes sense but I may not be able to convince you.

was he not promoted to a higher position? was he not previously in postion focusing on contracts and cap? so he was promoted to the same job? why would they do that?
Was he not mentioned as a leader in the organization to work along side Josh to build a team? a lot of face time for the defacto pencil pusher.

why is not possible he actually was working with Josh in lock step -- until the day Josh get's fired and he sees an opportunity to distance himself.. Happens all the time..

anyway.. almost game time..

[Tned]

It isn't to you? The Elway back to the organization was moving quickly and going to happen very fast then things stalled out. Who was the first on record? Ellis. What were his comments? Distancing the idea of Elway being a major power in the organization. Only then did Elway come out and clarify his interests. There was another post I read that Bowlen's family (brother or kid don't recall) that indicated they wanted Ellis gone.

Come on I appreciate an overactive imagination, but reallly???

[jhildebrand]

I don't know if Xanders was originally given final say in personnel decisions, as Bowlen's "true GM" statement would indicate, but would was very clear is that sometime shortly after that (it not at that time), McDaniels was given final say in player moves.

Here's my take on it and this has been my take for almost 2 seasons now. McD was never officially given full control. He took it and nobody stepped up to stop him-not Ellis, not Bowlen, and not Xanders.

I think McDaniels saw that he could sell his good relationship with Xanders as a way to remove the Goodmans. Remember Jim Goodman had been here 11 years and I am sure McDaniels questioned or at least feared how much influence Goodman had especially knowing the drafts under Goodman had been much better than they were with Shanahan having the complete control.

Ultimately McDaniels knew that Xanders was either weak and wouldn't disagree or knew Xanders would go along with McDaniels' vision. At the least, McDaniels may have felt X would be an easy scapegoat later on. Who knows.

In the end, I have always said that McD had full control. People always countered that X was the true GM. I never stood by that and have always said he is simply a cap and contract guy. I always pointed to the lack of questions being pointed at Xanders with ANY OF THE PERSONNEL MOVES!

However, he was NAMED GM. Why take that title and do it in a public fashion if you aren't going to try to put your mark on the organization as such?



The only real place you and I disagree is that you are calling Xanders all kinds of names for DOING what his bosses, and the owner of the organization, told him to do.

I guess that was done in haste on my part. I will edit that post. Like nevercraw has pointed out, either side of the argument doesn't reflect well for Xanders.

[Tned]

It makes sense but I may not be able to convince you.

was he not promoted to a higher position? was he not previously in postion focusing on contracts and cap? so he was promoted to the same job? why would they do that?
Was he not mentioned as a leader in the organization to work along side Josh to build a team? a lot of face time for the defacto pencil pusher.

why is not possible he actually was working with Josh in lock step -- until the day Josh get's fired and he sees an opportunity to distance himself.. Happens all the time..

anyway.. almost game time..

Why was Dennison promoted to OC when he wasn't really the OC? Come on, you know that titles don't mean crap in the NFL or in business.

Because the reporters that are in Dove Valley every day said at least as early as this past off season that Xanders had no real power, that McDaniels had Shanahan like power.

You are saying "why is it not possible" as your proof, rather than believing the people that make their living covering the team, which happens to correlate with the 'official' team version.

Anyway, as fun as this has been, I'm going to go watch the savior of our franchise.