The difference Between a good FO and ours: Browns to start McCoy Rest of Year

[vandammage13]

The Browns don't even have nearly as bad of a record as we do, but they are going with their rookie QB for the rest of the year. Yet, we can't seem to even attempt to get ours on the field in a lost year.

The difference? Look no further than Mike Holmgren. A football guy that gets it. They are building for the future over there while our FO has absolutely no direction.

We are running out of time to get our QB of the future some valuable experience to prep him for next season. Make the move already!!

[TXBRONC]

Delhomme and Wallace haven't played as well as Orton has up until the last few weeks. It wouldn't surprise me if we see Tebow start against the Texans.

[cardoso]

The Broncos managment needs to get their Head out of their ass!

[rationalfan]

The Browns don't even have nearly as bad of a record as we do, but they are going with their rookie QB for the rest of the year. Yet, we can't seem to even attempt to get ours on the field in a lost year.

The difference? Look no further than Mike Holmgren. A football guy that gets it. They are building for the future over there while our FO has absolutely no direction.

We are running out of time to get our QB of the future some valuable experience to prep him for next season. Make the move already!!

big difference in those situations. in cleveland, the rookie qb is the best option; he proved it on the field. in denver, the rookie qb is still a mystery.

[Northman]

big difference in those situations. in cleveland, the rookie qb is the best option; he proved it on the field. in denver, the rookie qb is still a mystery.

Yet, they didnt know he was the best option til he actually played.

[TXBRONC]

yet, they didnt know he was the best option til he actually played.

qft.

[vandammage13]

Yet, they didnt know he was the best option til he actually played.

^^^What North said.....

[Lonestar]

Yet their QB pretty much sucked all year unlike Orton.

They knew along time ago they were not going any where.
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[Tned]

Yet their QB pretty much sucked all year unlike Orton.

They knew along time ago they were not going any where.
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While I agree neither Delhomme or the other mobile dude (only a couple hours sleep last night, drawing a blank) didn't play great, but the real issue is that one or the other or both were constantly hurt and that's what pushed McCoy into the lineup. It was after he was pushed into the lineup because the other guys couldn't play, that McCoy showed he was ready to be the starter.

[silkamilkamonico]

Yet their QB pretty much sucked all year unlike Orton.

They knew along time ago they were not going any where.
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We knew 3 weeks ago we weren't going anywhere. So why isn't Tebow playing?

[Juriga72]

Yet their QB pretty much sucked all year unlike Orton.

They knew along time ago they were not going any where.
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And yet they beat the Saints and Patriots besides three other teams. Yet again proving everyone knows that

Passing yards > wins!!!

Oh and that Peyton Hillis guy..... yeah 1,000 yards and 11 td's. But he couldnt sniff the field here.

[BroncoStud]

Yep, Holmgren is the difference. He is building them the right way. We aren't rebuilding, we're treading water. Our front office is a joke.

[TXBRONC]

While I agree neither Delhomme or the other mobile dude (only a couple hours sleep last night, drawing a blank) didn't play great, but the real issue is that one or the other or both were constantly hurt and that's what pushed McCoy into the lineup. It was after he was pushed into the lineup because the other guys couldn't play, that McCoy showed he was ready to be the starter.

Seneca Wallace.

[vandammage13]

Because 3 weeks ago Orton was still playing lights out.

Now after the last two weeks that can not be said.

But I'll guess that the decision makers do/did not feel he is ready to go full time.

As much as I'd like to see him play I still maintain the coaches WHAT EVER Y'all think of them are closer to the issue than a bunch of ACQBs and just might know what they are doing.
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As evidenced by our record this year....:coffee:

[TXBRONC]

Orton hasn't played particularly well for the last four weeks. He had a 300 yard game against the Rams but most of that yardage was picked after the Rams started playing soft on defense.

[BroncoStud]

Because 3 weeks ago Orton was still playing lights out.

Now after the last two weeks that can not be said.

But I'll guess that the decision makers do/did not feel he is ready to go full time.

As much as I'd like to see him play I still maintain the coaches WHAT EVER Y'all think of them are closer to the issue than a bunch of ACQBs and just might know what they are doing.
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Come on, Kyle Orton was never playing "lights out"... He was throwing for a lot of yards. He wasn't converting 3rd downs, wasn't good in the redzone, wasn't winning games, wasn't good in the clutch, etc. He was throwing for yards...

Tom Brady is playing "lights out" and he is in another universe compared to Orton.

[Northman]

Come on, Kyle Orton was never playing "lights out"... He was throwing for a lot of yards. He wasn't converting 3rd downs, wasn't good in the redzone, wasn't winning games, wasn't good in the clutch, etc. He was throwing for yards...

Tom Brady is playing "lights out" and he is in another universe compared to Orton.

Yea, despite how good of a season Orton had it wasnt necessarily a "Lights Out" performance.

[Juriga72]

Here's "Kyle playing lights out"-

Since week 5-

71.8
73.9
96.9
131.5
76.3
110.5
46.3
27.1

Lets JUST pick Alex Smith as our "Baseline" 20th ranked passer at 80.4 qb rating.

5 of these 8 weeks he was WORSE than Alex Smiths season average

ONLY twice did he throw for more than 300 yards.

AND he has won one game .........

Thats not "Playing lights out" for the past two months

[vandammage13]

Yea, despite how good of a season Orton had it wasnt necessarily a "Lights Out" performance.

It is amazing how people in this fantasy football era equate stats with being good. Orton was putting up massive yardage...that's it. He couldn't convert third downs, and he consistently failed in the redzone. It was not hard to see that a good portion of Orton's yards came after the game was already in doubt and the opposing defenses had started playing a soft prevent, allowing Orton to make easy completions underneath.

Did Orton exceed expectations this year....Yeah, for a while he probably did, but that still doesn't mean he was having a good year. I guess our expectations have been lowered over the years.

I don't care about the yardage, it means nothing. In third down situations, in the red zone, and when the game was close, Orton didn't get it done. To me, that says he wasn't playing so well despite the fantasy numbers he may have been putting up. The yardage looks good on paper, but when you put it in context, not so much.

The FO should have came to this realization weeks ago....

[BroncoStud]

What's ironic to me is that the stats the Orton supporters used to proudly boast are now being used to show how mediocre he really has been. He is actually in the bottom half of the NFL is completion %. He is in the bottom 3 in the NFL in 3rd down conversions...

The only thing he remains top 10 in is yardage. Other than that, for an offense that throws the ball as much as ours has, Orton has been rather pedestrian. Hell, he's not even a good fantasy option any longer.

[Tned]

Yea, despite how good of a season Orton had it wasnt necessarily a "Lights Out" performance.

I fully admit Orton has played much better than I thought he would. That said, every time the games been on the line at a critical time, he's failed to come through.

[BroncoStud]

Yes Brady is the best no doubt about that BUT then I was not comparing him to Orton either.

The comparison was whom ever the CLE QB's were so IF we limit ourselves to that argument Orton was playing lights out.




Passing Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate
1 Indianapolis Colts 13 26.7 347 378 569 66.4 43.8 3,952 7.1 304.0 26 15 216 38.0 73T 38 9 14 91.2
2 San Diego Chargers 13 27.2 354 292 442 66.1 34.0 3,721 8.8 286.2 26 11 191 43.2 59T 57 12 31 103.2
3 New Orleans Saints 13 25.4 330 362 525 69.0 40.4 3,704 7.3 284.9 28 18 192 36.6 80T 40 10 19 93.6
4 Dallas Cowboys 13 24.7 321 320 475 67.4 36.5 3,430 7.5 263.8 24 17 170 35.8 71T 47 8 22 91.3
5 Denver Broncos 13 20.7 269 294 499 58.9 38.4 3,413 7.3 262.5 21 9 174 34.9 71 52 11 34 88.2
6 Philadelphia Eagles 13 28.8 374 284 447 63.5 34.4 3,338 7.9 256.8 23 8 160 35.8 91T 53 13 35 97.8
7 Houston Texans 13 24.3 316 289 465 62.2 35.8 3,288 7.5 252.9 20 10 178 38.3 60 48 7 28 90.5
8 Green Bay Packers 13 23.5 306 284 439 64.7 33.8 3,278 7.9 252.2 23 11 163 37.1 86T 45 8 29 96.0
9 New England Patriots 13 31.9 415 284 427 66.5 32.8 3,259 8.0 250.7 29 5 165 38.6 79T 45 7 21 108.4
10 Washington Redskins 13 18.3 238 279 479 58.2 36.8 3,137 7.1 241.3 14 15 154 32.2 76 41 11 38 77.1
11 Detroit Lions 13 21.9 285 318 530 60.0 40.8 3,100 6.2 238.5 22 15 157 29.6 87T 34 5 24 79.8
12 New York Giants 13 25.3 329 282 438 64.4 33.7 3,082 7.2 237.1 24 19 156 35.6 54T 46 5 13 86.1
13 Atlanta Falcons 13 25.8 335 300 475 63.2 36.5 3,006 6.6 231.2 22 8 166 34.9 46 30 6 20 90.7
14 Baltimore Ravens 13 22.6 294 272 433 62.8 33.3 2,989 7.5 229.9 21 8 158 36.5 67 35 6 32 94.0
15 Cincinnati Bengals 13 20.2 262 303 501 60.5 38.5 2,984 6.4 229.5 21 18 170 33.9 78T 34 6 28 78.1
16 Seattle Seahawks 13 20.1 261 270 453 59.6 34.8 2,922 6.8 224.8 13 18 140 30.9 87T 37 10 30 73.3
17 Miami Dolphins 13 17.3 225 257 431 59.6 33.2 2,789 6.9 214.5 14 17 147 34.1 57T 36 4 28 74.8
18 Pittsburgh Steelers 13 22.3 290 232 373 62.2 28.7 2,758 8.0 212.2 17 9 130 34.9 53T 50 7 35 92.4
19 San Francisco 49ers 13 18.7 243 231 408 56.6 31.4 2,717 7.1 209.0 16 13 122 29.9 66T 40 8 32 78.7
20 St. Louis Rams 13 18.8 245 286 474 60.3 36.5 2,701 6.1 207.8 17 12 150 31.6 49 32 2 27 79.1
21 New York Jets 13 21 273 237 443 53.5 34.1 2,691 6.5 207.0 17 12 143 32.3 74T 40 10 26 75.1
22 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 13 20 260 240 406 59.1 31.2 2,670 6.9 205.4 18 6 131 32.3 64 39 9 22 88.8
23 Minnesota Vikings 13 17.7 230 248 414 59.9 31.8 2,625 6.8 201.9 13 22 129 31.2 53T 42 2 27 68.5
24 Oakland Raiders 13 24.2 314 219 397 55.2 30.5 2,597 7.2 199.8 15 14 130 32.7 70 37 11 37 75.8
25 Buffalo Bills 13 19.7 256 250 430 58.1 33.1 2,578 6.4 198.3 22 13 137 31.9 65T 33 6 26 81.8
26 Chicago Bears 13 19.5 253 228 378 60.3 29.1 2,507 7.5 192.8 17 17 138 36.5 89T 33 4 47 79.7
27 Cleveland Browns 13 18.1 235 240 380 63.2 29.2 2,410 6.8 185.4 9 12 121 31.8 65T 33 5 28 77.7
28 Kansas City Chiefs 13 22.7 295 221 374 59.1 28.8 2,403 6.8 184.8 23 4 136 36.4 53T 34 3 21 95.8
29 Jacksonville Jaguars 13 22.7 295 233 368 63.3 28.3 2,394 7.1 184.2 22 17 130 35.3 75 35 5 31 85.2
30 Tennessee Titans 13 22.4 291 217 374 58.0 28.8 2,392 6.7 184.0 18 12 117 31.3 80T 33 6 20 81.0
31 Arizona Cardinals 13 18.7 243 227 450 50.4 34.6 2,367 5.9 182.1 8 16 127 28.2 43 37 1 40 59.7
32 Carolina Panthers 13 12.6 164 214 408 52.5 31.4 1,964 5.5 151.1 7 19 108 26.5 88T 25 3 41 55.0

Yes I know that stats are not the end all but no one can deny that having 29 TDs are better than 21 and 9 picks verse 12 are winners any day.

So whine about Orton some more and see where it gets you.

When y'all should have been concerned about front office issues the last 12 years all anyone could ever wave was the he has 2 rings flag.

I wanted a real GM going back as far as 2004 maybe even before that, but that would be the first documented comments on it.

No doubt we need a GM, but you are comparing apples to oranges with the Browns and Broncos.

The Browns run the football, that's what they do. Denver is a spread offense, they throw the football. Orton had BETTER have more yards and TDs than the Browns QBs.

Colt McCoy might look a LOT better in this offense than he does in Cleveland, afterall he ran this offense in college. Still, the Browns are completing 63% of their passes to the Broncos 59%, and they have won twice as many games.

[Tned]

Yes Brady is the best no doubt about that BUT then I was not comparing him to Orton either.

The comparison was whom ever the CLE QB's were so IF we limit ourselves to that argument Orton was playing lights out.


How many of the Broncos games did you watch this year? How many on TV vs. a grainy web stream?

[nevcraw]

Yes Brady is the best no doubt about that BUT then I was not comparing him to Orton either.

The comparison was whom ever the CLE QB's were so IF we limit ourselves to that argument Orton was playing lights out.




Passing Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate
1 Indianapolis Colts 13 26.7 347 378 569 66.4 43.8 3,952 7.1 304.0 26 15 216 38.0 73T 38 9 14 91.2
2 San Diego Chargers 13 27.2 354 292 442 66.1 34.0 3,721 8.8 286.2 26 11 191 43.2 59T 57 12 31 103.2
3 New Orleans Saints 13 25.4 330 362 525 69.0 40.4 3,704 7.3 284.9 28 18 192 36.6 80T 40 10 19 93.6
4 Dallas Cowboys 13 24.7 321 320 475 67.4 36.5 3,430 7.5 263.8 24 17 170 35.8 71T 47 8 22 91.3
5 Denver Broncos 13 20.7 269 294 499 58.9 38.4 3,413 7.3 262.5 21 9 174 34.9 71 52 11 34 88.2
6 Philadelphia Eagles 13 28.8 374 284 447 63.5 34.4 3,338 7.9 256.8 23 8 160 35.8 91T 53 13 35 97.8
7 Houston Texans 13 24.3 316 289 465 62.2 35.8 3,288 7.5 252.9 20 10 178 38.3 60 48 7 28 90.5
8 Green Bay Packers 13 23.5 306 284 439 64.7 33.8 3,278 7.9 252.2 23 11 163 37.1 86T 45 8 29 96.0
9 New England Patriots 13 31.9 415 284 427 66.5 32.8 3,259 8.0 250.7 29 5 165 38.6 79T 45 7 21 108.4
10 Washington Redskins 13 18.3 238 279 479 58.2 36.8 3,137 7.1 241.3 14 15 154 32.2 76 41 11 38 77.1
11 Detroit Lions 13 21.9 285 318 530 60.0 40.8 3,100 6.2 238.5 22 15 157 29.6 87T 34 5 24 79.8
12 New York Giants 13 25.3 329 282 438 64.4 33.7 3,082 7.2 237.1 24 19 156 35.6 54T 46 5 13 86.1
13 Atlanta Falcons 13 25.8 335 300 475 63.2 36.5 3,006 6.6 231.2 22 8 166 34.9 46 30 6 20 90.7
14 Baltimore Ravens 13 22.6 294 272 433 62.8 33.3 2,989 7.5 229.9 21 8 158 36.5 67 35 6 32 94.0
15 Cincinnati Bengals 13 20.2 262 303 501 60.5 38.5 2,984 6.4 229.5 21 18 170 33.9 78T 34 6 28 78.1
16 Seattle Seahawks 13 20.1 261 270 453 59.6 34.8 2,922 6.8 224.8 13 18 140 30.9 87T 37 10 30 73.3
17 Miami Dolphins 13 17.3 225 257 431 59.6 33.2 2,789 6.9 214.5 14 17 147 34.1 57T 36 4 28 74.8
18 Pittsburgh Steelers 13 22.3 290 232 373 62.2 28.7 2,758 8.0 212.2 17 9 130 34.9 53T 50 7 35 92.4
19 San Francisco 49ers 13 18.7 243 231 408 56.6 31.4 2,717 7.1 209.0 16 13 122 29.9 66T 40 8 32 78.7
20 St. Louis Rams 13 18.8 245 286 474 60.3 36.5 2,701 6.1 207.8 17 12 150 31.6 49 32 2 27 79.1
21 New York Jets 13 21 273 237 443 53.5 34.1 2,691 6.5 207.0 17 12 143 32.3 74T 40 10 26 75.1
22 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 13 20 260 240 406 59.1 31.2 2,670 6.9 205.4 18 6 131 32.3 64 39 9 22 88.8
23 Minnesota Vikings 13 17.7 230 248 414 59.9 31.8 2,625 6.8 201.9 13 22 129 31.2 53T 42 2 27 68.5
24 Oakland Raiders 13 24.2 314 219 397 55.2 30.5 2,597 7.2 199.8 15 14 130 32.7 70 37 11 37 75.8
25 Buffalo Bills 13 19.7 256 250 430 58.1 33.1 2,578 6.4 198.3 22 13 137 31.9 65T 33 6 26 81.8
26 Chicago Bears 13 19.5 253 228 378 60.3 29.1 2,507 7.5 192.8 17 17 138 36.5 89T 33 4 47 79.7
27 Cleveland Browns 13 18.1 235 240 380 63.2 29.2 2,410 6.8 185.4 9 12 121 31.8 65T 33 5 28 77.7
28 Kansas City Chiefs 13 22.7 295 221 374 59.1 28.8 2,403 6.8 184.8 23 4 136 36.4 53T 34 3 21 95.8
29 Jacksonville Jaguars 13 22.7 295 233 368 63.3 28.3 2,394 7.1 184.2 22 17 130 35.3 75 35 5 31 85.2
30 Tennessee Titans 13 22.4 291 217 374 58.0 28.8 2,392 6.7 184.0 18 12 117 31.3 80T 33 6 20 81.0
31 Arizona Cardinals 13 18.7 243 227 450 50.4 34.6 2,367 5.9 182.1 8 16 127 28.2 43 37 1 40 59.7
32 Carolina Panthers 13 12.6 164 214 408 52.5 31.4 1,964 5.5 151.1 7 19 108 26.5 88T 25 3 41 55.0

Yes I know that stats are not the end all but no one can deny that having 29 TDs are better than 21 and 9 picks verse 12 are winners any day.

So whine about Orton some more and see where it gets you.

When y'all should have been concerned about front office issues the last 12 years all anyone could ever wave was the he has 2 rings flag.

I wanted a real GM going back as far as 2004 maybe even before that, but that would be the first documented comments on it.

don't think anyone's whining Lonestar.. just not calling orton all that good or especially not calling him "lights out". I guess those you accuse of whining maybe have a higher expectation of what a light out player plays like..
in my opinion a qb playing lights out will not be sitting at the end of the season with only 3 wins under is belt with all of that lights out play..

[TXBRONC]

don't think anyone's whining Lonestar.. just not calling orton all that good or especially not calling him "lights out". I guess those you accuse of whining maybe have a higher expectation of what a light out player plays like..
in my opinion a qb playing lights out will not be sitting at the end of the season with only 3 wins under is belt with all of that lights out play..

A guy who was lightsouts on a bad team is Drew Brees in '08. Even with a horrible defense they still finished 8-8.

5,069 and 34 touchdowns. When Orton was on pace for 5,000 passing he was looking having about 24 touchdown. I can't deny he's been playing very well but lightsout? I wont got that far.

[TXBRONC]

I fully admit Orton has played much better than I thought he would. That said, every time the games been on the line at a critical time, he's failed to come through.

We've had five games that were winnable at the end and we were the ones that had the ball for the last meaningful possession.

[Lonestar]

How many of the Broncos games did you watch this year? How many on TV vs. a grainy web stream?

Actually about six.

Just how does that make a difference.

[rationalfan]

Here's "Kyle playing lights out"-

Since week 5-

71.8
73.9
96.9
131.5
76.3
110.5
46.3
27.1

Lets JUST pick Alex Smith as our "Baseline" 20th ranked passer at 80.4 qb rating.

5 of these 8 weeks he was WORSE than Alex Smiths season average

ONLY twice did he throw for more than 300 yards.

AND he has won one game .........

Thats not "Playing lights out" for the past two months

nice post. but i just don't trust the qb rating system. the only people who seem to understand it are math professors.

[frauschieze]

Actually about six.

Just how does that make a difference.

Because there's a world of difference between watching a game on a clear tv vs a crappy stream vs reading recaps and looking at stats.

ESPECIALLY recaps and stats. They don't remotely give the whole story.

[Tned]

Actually about six.

Just how does that make a difference.

What Frau said.

Orton has racked up a lot of stats and at times has played great. However, in those times when the team really needed him, when the game was on the line, he struggled badly.

Watching every snap, of every game this season, that's immensely obvious.

[nevcraw]

What Frau said.

Orton has racked up a lot of stats and at times has played great. However, in those times when the team really needed him, when the game was on the line, he struggled badly.

Watching every snap, of every game this season, that's immensely obvious.

and quite painful to watch.

[Lonestar]

Because there's a world of difference between watching a game on a clear tv vs a crappy stream vs reading recaps and looking at stats.

ESPECIALLY recaps and stats. They don't remotely give the whole story.


What Frau said.

Orton has racked up a lot of stats and at times has played great. However, in those times when the team really needed him, when the game was on the line, he struggled badly.

Watching every snap, of every game this season, that's immensely obvious.
thanks for your input.


I'll try to forget what I saw and believe y'all.

I guess from now ON I'll just believe everything I read in the game day thread because it is so unbiased..

Will make my life on here easier.

/sarcasm off.

[TXBRONC]

and quite painful to watch.

To say the least.

[Tned]

thanks for your input.


I'll try to forget what I saw and believe y'all.

I guess from now ON I'll just believe everything I read in the game day thread because it is so unbiased..

Will make my life on here easier.

/sarcasm off.

I gave you a reasoned response and you post that? Come on dude.

[spikerman]

Will make my life on here easier.

/sarcasm off.

You're a trooper for hanging in there.

[frauschieze]

thanks for your input.


I'll try to forget what I saw and believe y'all.

I guess from now ON I'll just believe everything I read in the game day thread because it is so unbiased..

Will make my life on here easier.

/sarcasm off.

Yep, because I totally just said that reading isn't an adequate substitute for watching the game, so that means the game thread is better.

Don't be a douche. Six games out of thirteen and you're going to say you've seen a better representation than multiple people who've watched every snap of every game?

I don't care who you are, or how much football you know, you don't get the same info from watching half the amount of games as someone else.

[BroncoStud]

thanks for your input.


I'll try to forget what I saw and believe y'all.

I guess from now ON I'll just believe everything I read in the game day thread because it is so unbiased..

Will make my life on here easier.

/sarcasm off.

Be sarcastic all you want, it's pretty obvious you know about as much about football as a Kyle Orton does about a 40 yard dash.

You're watching the games via message board and stat lines? No wonder you don't have a clue... Yikes. :elefant: :welcome:

[JDL]

Yet, they didnt know he was the best option til he actually played.

No... if Jake Delhomme is your starting QB then you KNOW .... any rookie QB is your best option... btw... last time I checked... Cleveland has an f-ing running game, an effective defense and stable organization around him at the moment... quite a big difference there... I don't see anyone cheering loudly in Carolina that Clausen is being thrown out there... perhaps because he is being asked to do FAR too much and carry the team, a total impossibility for any rookie QB... and his reward? experience? nah.. they are going to run him out of town on the first train and draft another QB. That's what being a rookie QB starting for a horrible screwed up team with no stability anywhere at the moment will get you.

[Juriga72]

No... if Jake Delhomme is your starting QB then you KNOW .... any rookie QB is your best option... btw... last time I checked... Cleveland has an f-ing running game, an effective defense and stable organization around him at the moment... quite a big difference there... I don't see anyone cheering loudly in Carolina that Clausen is being thrown out there... perhaps because he is being asked to do FAR too much and carry the team, a total impossibility for any rookie QB... and his reward? experience? nah.. they are going to run him out of town on the first train and draft another QB. That's what being a rookie QB starting for a horrible screwed up team with no stability anywhere at the moment will get you.

SO for the last 8 weeks, Kyle has had 5 games with a qb rating under 80.

A qb rating lower than 80 means he sucks, plain and simple. I will also question his two garbage time games. YES he had a very good game against KC, so Kyle can have a great game every other month!!!!

Bring in the sub

[TXBRONC]

No... if Jake Delhomme is your starting QB then you KNOW .... any rookie QB is your best option... btw... last time I checked... Cleveland has an f-ing running game, an effective defense and stable organization around him at the moment... quite a big difference there... I don't see anyone cheering loudly in Carolina that Clausen is being thrown out there... perhaps because he is being asked to do FAR too much and carry the team, a total impossibility for any rookie QB... and his reward? experience? nah.. they are going to run him out of town on the first train and draft another QB. That's what being a rookie QB starting for a horrible screwed up team with no stability anywhere at the moment will get you.

Since the Browns ran Delhomme our there as the starter at the beginning of the year it's reasonable to believe that they didn't think McCoy was ready. If I'm mistaken they even ran Seneca Wallace out there ahead McCoy as well.

There some huge difference between Clausen's situation and Tebow's. Clausen has started 10 game, at most Tebow could start is three games. How do you know that they will ask Tebow to do more than he's capable of doing? The fact that the coaching staff has been resistant to sending Tebow out there tells me that at the very least they're be cautious. Maybe you're right about their situations being similar but I'm not so sure that they are.

[Chris90210]

I guess the front office does not remember at what time of the year they gave cutler the job.................

[BroncoStud]

No... if Jake Delhomme is your starting QB then you KNOW .... any rookie QB is your best option... btw... last time I checked... Cleveland has an f-ing running game, an effective defense and stable organization around him at the moment... quite a big difference there... I don't see anyone cheering loudly in Carolina that Clausen is being thrown out there... perhaps because he is being asked to do FAR too much and carry the team, a total impossibility for any rookie QB... and his reward? experience? nah.. they are going to run him out of town on the first train and draft another QB. That's what being a rookie QB starting for a horrible screwed up team with no stability anywhere at the moment will get you.

He's not being asked to carry the team, the Panthers are a run FIRST team. He's being asked to complete NFL passes, which any QB coming into the NFL should be able to do, but he can't.

Clausen and Tebow are different animials. Having the NFL Ticket I get the misfortune of being able to watch the Panthers play, and Clausen is scared out of his pants in the pocket. He hurries throws, he is scared to death of contact. If anything, Tebow should be MORE scared of contact with defenders.

Comparing Clausen to Tebow is not a valid argument. Colt McCoy has played very well, and with confidence. He played the Steelers with as much poise as any QB I've seen this season. Matthew Stafford saw action his rookie season and barring injury it has helped him become a very solid NFL QB, on the verge of being a damn good player - once again, barring injury.

Sam Bradford has started every snap for the Rams and he is playing at a pretty high level with a chance to get his team in the playoffs, and outplayed our very own Kyle Orton at Invesco.

So if you ONLY use Clausen (a scared little shit who was always overhyped) as your argument to never play a rookie QB, then fine, you win. But if you objectively look at it, and see that guys like Bradford, McCoy, Stafford, and many others have seen extensive playing time in their rookie seasons and have played well, I think the discussion becomes more balanced.

Peyton Manning said his time on the field during his rookie season helped his development more than anything else could have that year. I dunno, I think I'll take Peyton's word over some of the "experts" on an NFL message board.

[Juriga72]

thanks for your input.


I'll try to forget what I saw and believe y'all.

I guess from now ON I'll just believe everything I read in the game day thread because it is so unbiased..

Will make my life on here easier.

/sarcasm off.

Well... THIS is what I saw and please explain to me how I can forget IT.

San Diego- 1/12 on third downs (0-5 on 3rd and LESS than 4 yards)

St. Louis- 1/9 on third down- Illegal motion/Sack/INC/INC/INC final drive

KC- 3/12 third down less than 1 out of three passes completed

Arizona- 3/15 third downs- 3 int's


so for the last month we have had- 8/45 on third downs 17.7% conversion rate. Of course its "You cant make thrid and LONG!!!!!!!"

except Kyle's 3rd and short qb rating is 44.9, his 3rd and medium- 47.4 and his 3rd and long???? 81.9 ( Average)

[Ravage!!!]

No... if Jake Delhomme is your starting QB then you KNOW .... any rookie QB is your best option... btw... last time I checked... Cleveland has an f-ing running game, an effective defense and stable organization around him at the moment... quite a big difference there... I don't see anyone cheering loudly in Carolina that Clausen is being thrown out there... perhaps because he is being asked to do FAR too much and carry the team, a total impossibility for any rookie QB... and his reward? experience? nah.. they are going to run him out of town on the first train and draft another QB. That's what being a rookie QB starting for a horrible screwed up team with no stability anywhere at the moment will get you.


So the Browns were "stable"? So the Rams were stable before Bradford? The lions were stable when they started Stafford? THe Falcons were "stable" when they started Ryan?

So the biggest fear, is that Tebow will suck it up so badly, that it will run him out of town? Thats why you don't want the rookie to start, 13 games into the season? Thats not much confidence in Tebow.