What would it take?

[lgenf]

Just wondering.....since there is clearly some die hard Tebow supporters here (me being one of the them) and there are clearly some haters on here (nothing he did in college matters, he sucks as an NFL QB) although he has yet to get a chance to play QB at the NFL level minus a few plays. Then there are some on here that just want change, so what would it take to convert everyone that doubts?

say a 17 for 30 day with 220 yds 1 passing TD 1 rushing TD and 2 ints?

would that be enough?

[Ravage!!!]

One game isn't enough. 4 games isn't enough.

I'm a doubter. I'm sure he'll be 'fine' as an NFL QB, but I don't think he was worth 4 picks in a time that we needed so much. He's a big project, for a team that needs nearly EVERYTHING. Thats not when you have the luxury.

For the amount we spent on him, he HAS to perform at an EXTREMELY high level (and no, I don't mean right out of the gate). So right now, I would just need to see solid play, which I COMPLETELY expect to see, if he ever gets any starting time this year.

Even winning, wouldn't change things yet. But we all need more than whats left this season to really get a good feel as to how he's going to do.

[GEM]

Just wondering.....since there is clearly some die hard Tebow supporters here (me being one of the them) and there are clearly some haters on here (nothing he did in college matters, he sucks as an NFL QB) although he has yet to get a chance to play QB at the NFL level minus a few plays. Then there are some on here that just want change, so what would it take to convert everyone that doubts?

say a 17 for 30 day with 220 yds 1 passing TD 1 rushing TD and 2 ints?

would that be enough?

I'm already on board. I like the kid. I like that he isn't about the strip clubs and making it rain. I like that he is a winner in anything that he has done. I like his leadership. And from all of that, I think he will find success in anything that he does, including being an NFL qb. I didn't watch him in college (college ball isn't really my thing) but I've read about him, watched video on him and caught up with who he is since he was drafted.

All I want to SEE is what he CAN do. I'm sick of HEARING what he CAN'T do.

[Northman]

Im with Rav, just let me see the kid play for a year and see what he brings to the table. After a year it shouldnt be hard to see if he is worth the price of admission.

[rocks]

I think the real question is what will it take for Orton to lose his job? 5 ints with two pick 6's?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

One game isn't enough. 4 games isn't enough.

I'm a doubter. I'm sure he'll be 'fine' as an NFL QB, but I don't think he was worth 4 picks in a time that we needed so much. He's a big project, for a team that needs nearly EVERYTHING. Thats not when you have the luxury.

For the amount we spent on him, he HAS to perform at an EXTREMELY high level (and no, I don't mean right out of the gate). So right now, I would just need to see solid play, which I COMPLETELY expect to see, if he ever gets any starting time this year.

Even winning, wouldn't change things yet. But we all need more than whats left this season to really get a good feel as to how he's going to do.

I still hate the "gave up a bunch of picks" argument. One of those picks was the one which was actually used to get him so it's not like it vanished. Secondly, McD maneuvered his way back in the draft to acquire those picks with the intention of using em to get Tebow. And that is per Ed Werder on draft night who reported McD told him he wanted Thomas (he liked 3 players in rd 1) before the draft even started. So McD got his guy and made the moves for Tebow. Finally, since when can a team go from round 2 to round 1 w/o giving up a future #1? It never goes down that way. McD, for all his screw ups, shouldn't get crushed for this move.

OK. I'm done.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

As far as the original question is concerned, an above .500 record w/ a 2-1 td/int ratio would be a great start.

[vandammage13]

I still hate the "gave up a bunch of picks" argument. One of those picks was the one which was actually used to get him so it's not like it vanished. Secondly, McD maneuvered his way back in the draft to acquire those picks with the intention of using em to get Tebow. And that is per Ed Werder on draft night who reported McD told him he wanted Thomas (he liked 3 players in rd 1) before the draft even started. So McD got his guy and made the moves for Tebow. Finally, since when can a team go from round 2 to round 1 w/o giving up a future #1? It never goes down that way. McD, for all his screw ups, shouldn't get crushed for this move.

OK. I'm done.

Exactly...I'm tired of everyone saying that, too. McDaniels wanted DT all along, and by trading down twice and still being able to get him later in the draft essentially meant we got Tebow for free. Not sure what all the fuss is about, because we didn't spend any of our original picks to get Tebow.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I'm already on board. I like the kid. I like that he isn't about the strip clubs and making it rain. I like that he is a winner in anything that he has done. I like his leadership. And from all of that, I think he will find success in anything that he does, including being an NFL qb. I didn't watch him in college (college ball isn't really my thing) but I've read about him, watched video on him and caught up with who he is since he was drafted.

All I want to SEE is what he CAN do. I'm sick of HEARING what he CAN'T do.

Can someone please explain all these cryptic refrences to strip clubs and "making it rain".

I am a savvy guy... i've been around the block, down the street, across the tracks, over the river, through the woods, and made it safely back from the other side of town...

yet I have no clue what you people are talking about.

[vandammage13]

As far as the original question is concerned, an above .500 record w/ a 2-1 td/int ratio would be a great start.

I think a 2-1 td/int ratio for a first year starter is a tall order. 3/2 ratio would still be acceptable....along with an above .500 record.

[vandammage13]

Can someone please explain all these cryptic refrences to strip clubs and "making it rain".

I am a savvy guy... i've been around the block, down the street, across the tracks, over the river, through the woods, and made it safely back from the other side of town...

yet I have no clue what you people are talking about.

I could be wrong, but I think it means making it rain dollar bills. Throwing cash to the strippers.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Can someone please explain all these cryptic refrences to strip clubs and "making it rain".

I am a savvy guy... i've been around the block, down the street, across the tracks, over the river, through the woods, and made it safely back from the other side of town...

yet I have no clue what you people are talking about.

gangstas in strip clubs throwing money into the air and shooting guns all willy nilly likes it's the normal thing to do.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I think a 2-1 td/int ratio for a first year starter is a tall order. 3/2 ratio would still be acceptable....along with an above .500 record.


agreed....but never said it's take less than 1 year for me to commit.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I don't know if Tebow will be great.
I like his chances... due to his work ethic, raw talent, and past success.

I am a guy who thinks it is a waste of these games to not use them to develop his talent.

I expect he wiould throw a pick... fumble the ball.
I also expect he would scramble for a TD.
I also expect he would pass for some great yardage.
I think he would spark the team...

I think he would motivate some guys to have hope instead of the way
Orton is de-motivating guys and creating an air of hopelessness.

I can not conceive that he would do as bad as Orton just showed us in Arizona.

The Amatuer Coaching staff we are saddled with
for the remainder of the season will probably not use Tebow, however.

They are gutless.

I only expect to see Tebow if Orton is hurt.

[Krugan]

I just want to see the kid play.

I dont need anything to convince me, I just want to see him take some live snaps under center and see where it goes. i dont want anymore wildcat with him, I see where that will go 2-3 yards and a pile of dust.

Just let him play garbage time, i feel there is alot riding on seeing what is there, even in the minimal role it would be.

2 games full live action is a start.

[PAINTERDAVE]

gangstas in strip clubs throwing money into the air and shooting guns all willy nilly likes it's the normal thing to do.

Okay.

So WHO on the broncos has been hangning out with thugs and shooting off their guns while they throw greenbacks in the air?

[hotcarl]

Okay.

So WHO on the broncos has been hangning out with thugs and shooting off their guns while they throw greenbacks in the air?

eric decker

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Okay.

So WHO on the broncos has been hangning out with thugs and shooting off their guns while they throw greenbacks in the air?

i think it's a comparison to others in the league. Our closest comparison would be a certain CB getting killed in a nightclub.

[GEM]

eric decker

Link?

[hotcarl]

Link?

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1152350&highlight=barometric#post1152350

[GEM]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1152350&highlight=barometric#post1152350

Thanks for posting back to absolutely nothing of the sort.


Should have known....just another bullshit post.

[I Eat Staples]

Reading some of these posts, I think only about two of you actually understand the NFL draft...just because you traded down to acquire picks to draft a certain player doesn't mean that was a good pick or a high value pick.

If you make $500 off of a few people and spend it all on something that should be valued at less than half of that, you did not spend your money wisely just because it was given to you.

[hotcarl]

Thanks for posting back to absolutely nothing of the sort.


Should have known....just another bullshit post.

sorry i thought he was talking about "making it rain"

on a side note: admins please make me a mod, tia :salute:

[BroncoWave]

Reading some of these posts, I think only about two of you actually understand the NFL draft...just because you traded down to acquire picks to draft a certain player doesn't mean that was a good pick or a high value pick.

If you make $500 off of a few people and spend it all on something that should be valued at less than half of that, you did not spend your money wisely just because it was given to you.

You would have a point if McDaniels had valued Tebow at half of a first rounder, but he, as well as several other people, had Tebow valued as a first rounder. So your point pretty much fails.

Using your example, just because YOU value what that person spent his 500 bucks on to be half that doesn't mean that's what he values it at.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Reading some of these posts, I think only about two of you actually understand the NFL draft...just because you traded down to acquire picks to draft a certain player doesn't mean that was a good pick or a high value pick.

If you make $500 off of a few people and spend it all on something that should be valued at less than half of that, you did not spend your money wisely just because it was given to you.

If you earn the money, you have the right to spend as you choose. The jury is still out on Tebow. It's very premature to say it was a bad choice. You obviously don't like him. Ironically, the coach many want here (Gruden) LOVES him. It's the guy the coach wanted. He went and got him w/o sacrificing the picks we already had.

[vandammage13]

Reading some of these posts, I think only about two of you actually understand the NFL draft...just because you traded down to acquire picks to draft a certain player doesn't mean that was a good pick or a high value pick.

If you make $500 off of a few people and spend it all on something that should be valued at less than half of that, you did not spend your money wisely just because it was given to you.

We won't know the value of the pick until we see him play. You can't legitimately say it was a wasted pick because you can't possibly know yet.

What about Tebow other than maybe personal feelings make you think he's a wasted pick? We haven't seen much of him yet, and what we did see in the preseason and spot duty which he's played so far (which he's done nothing but produce) has shown me far more promise than failure.

[hotcarl]

We won't know the value of the pick until we see him play. You can't legitimately say it was a wasted pick because you can't possibly know yet.

What about Tebow other than maybe personal feelings make you think he's a wasted pick? We haven't seen much of him yet, and what we did see in the preseason and spot duty which he's played so far (which he's done nothing but produce) has shown me far more promise than failure.

one of smartest quarterback minds in the world said he wasn't ready, one of the worst talent evaluators in the world said he was awesome. both happen to be the same guy.

say what you want about mcdaniels (please see the "mcd was mole" thread) but he knows quarterbacks.

[I Eat Staples]

You would have a point if McDaniels had valued Tebow at half of a first rounder, but he, as well as several other people, had Tebow valued as a first rounder. So your point pretty much fails.

Using your example, just because YOU value what that person spent his 500 bucks on to be half that doesn't mean that's what he values it at.


If you earn the money, you have the right to spend as you choose. The jury is still out on Tebow. It's very premature to say it was a bad choice. You obviously don't like him. Ironically, the coach many want here (Gruden) LOVES him. It's the guy the coach wanted. He went and got him w/o sacrificing the picks we already had.

You guys do realize that it was McDaniels that picked him, right? Despite what some say, he doesn't know QBs. He tried to trade Cutler for Cassell. That means he doesn't know QBs.

And neither does Gruden for that matter, and I don't want him here anyway. Chris Simms says hi.

[hotcarl]

You guys do realize that it was McDaniels that picked him, right? Despite what some say, he doesn't know QBs. He tried to trade Cutler for Cassell. That means he doesn't know QBs.

And neither does Gruden for that matter, and I don't want him here anyway. Chris Simms says hi.

meant to say, he knows how to "coach" quarterbacks, so he does know something. he knows what type of qb is coachable (by him).

but who cares he sucks and tebow probably sucks and everybody sucks

[Ravage!!!]

I still hate the "gave up a bunch of picks" argument. One of those picks was the one which was actually used to get him so it's not like it vanished. Secondly, McD maneuvered his way back in the draft to acquire those picks with the intention of using em to get Tebow. And that is per Ed Werder on draft night who reported McD told him he wanted Thomas (he liked 3 players in rd 1) before the draft even started. So McD got his guy and made the moves for Tebow. Finally, since when can a team go from round 2 to round 1 w/o giving up a future #1? It never goes down that way. McD, for all his screw ups, shouldn't get crushed for this move.

OK. I'm done.


Yeah.. I've heard this before. That BECAUSE we acquired the picks to get Tebow,t hat we didn't spend that much to get him. But the reality is, we acquired the picks and spent a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th to get a 1st, and used the first on him.

Those 2nd 3rd and 4th round picks are HUGE.. especially in a draft that is thought as one of the deepest in the last decade. A draft this team needed TERRIBLY because of teh exodus of talent.

If we acquired the picks to get Tebow, we could have acquired the picks to pick up more young players, and actually BUILD this team. Instead, we used those picks for a SINGLE developmental player that hasn't played a significant amount of time yet.

So it doesn't matter that the coach traded away picks and moved around with the sole intention of getting Tebow.. the picks were still spent. The ability to use those picks on OTHER people were in our hands, UNTIL, we handed the piece of paper over to the commish.

So no matter what, no matter how you try to justify it and simplify it, and minimize it...we STILL used 4 picks on Tebow, and he is going to have to be FANTASTIC to justify that kind of investment.

[Lancane]

Back in late February of 2010, I had mentioned that Tim Tebow might be the first overall pick of the Denver Broncos. He hailed from an Urban Meyer spread offensive system, whose close friends of Belichick, and that Bill Belichick might draft him in the second round to groom behind Brady…does anyone else remember what else I said? I also said that McDaniels may reach for him to stop the kid from being taken by Belichick later on, whether or not he is the best choice, let a lone he would be given some leeway from the fans still irate over the trade of a franchise quarterback.

A lot of people, include a fair number of those that are now his so-called supporters at this time said “No way, he’s not an NFL-ready quarterback, a huge project that may not pay dividens for years. And he is weak armed no less, more mobile then a true pocket passer and he throws funny - he may be worth a 3rd round pick at best, maybe not even that high“…and simply many of those supporting him said “No thank you”.

But the BroncoNation is a fickle bunch, every quarterback given a jersey is the next great one…Simms, Orton, Plummer, Mauck, Van Pelt, Jackson, Brister, Cutler, Brandstater and now Tebow - so excuse me if I don’t buy into the bullshit like everyone else, seeing is believing and believing is seeing. I like some of the tangibles that Tebow brings, his will to succeed no matter the situation, his drive to win, his intelligence and football smarts, the way he handles himself with people and the confidence he has, it’s infectious on those around him. Unlike some I don’t care about his religious views, faith is faith and that‘s it…I don’t give a damn if he practices black magick and sacrifices goats on Sabbat or is a voodoo priest who cuts the heads of chickens every full-moon, it has shit to do with football and that is that. If someone likes him more simply because his principles and overall faith, then they should be flogged, football and religion go together like religion and politics, in the end it don’t mix well.

I honestly have concerns right now, NCAA records don’t mean much in the NFL, neither do Heisman Trophies. Over the past forty or fifty years, those who’ve won the Heisman have been busts at the NFL level more then any have succeeded, those who’ve been quarterbacks of multiple or dual National Championship teams have been busts at the professional level more then any have succeeded. Bradshaw, Elway, Marino, Aikman, Montana, Brady, Griese, Roethlisberger, Kelly, Rivers, Farve, Brees, Young, Manning and there are many more have never won the Hiesman, they didn’t have a cultimated plethora of National Championships either, hell…many came from smaller programs that never went anywhere. What one does at the collegiate level doesn’t always translate to success at the professional levels and it seems some have forgotten that. Of course there are exceptions to the rule as well, so I won’t sell Tebow off as if he can not be a solid NFL quarterback, but I won’t proclaim him the next Steve Young either…that has to be earned.

I want him to succeed, when you listen to him talk and see his personality, who wouldn’t? He is just a very likeable person in general. But again, there are issues with his mechanics as there has been with some other quality pro quarterbacks, but how has he developed over the season is unknown, has he improved? Does he still have trouble behind center, can he read a defense better, does he still extend too high and throw off-balance, has he learned to plant his feet better, is he more accurate, has he tightened his spirals, has he gained or lost velocity off his throws with the changes? These are all important questions. And with a new regime coming in, he’ll have to prove to them that McDaniels was correct about him, that he has the ability to be a franchise quarterback…or it will not mean shit, because they won’t care about collegiate accolades. It’s about winning and putting a team together that can be a continual contender year in and year out. And that’s what I care about…I don’t care if they end up trading him, keeping him, moving his ass to the tight end position. He is not this team, he hasn’t earned the right to be the face of this franchise, that comes with playing and showing what you can do on the field. I’ve only supported a few of the quarterbacks that Denver has had over the years, Cutler and Elway most amongst them. I’ll give the kid a chance, I like a lot of things about him. But in the end, if he stinks it up…then I’ll want the team to look elsewhere…if they draft someone else, so be it, I’ll hope he is the future, but the same rules will apply to his ass too.

[Ravage!!!]

Great post, Lan. I"m with you 100%. There is nothing, as of right now, that makes me see him as the face of the franchise.... BUT>.. there is nothing, as of right now, that makes me root against him. I WANT him to be great. I WANT him to succeed. Why wouldn't I? He could be fantastic for this franchise IF he turns out to be great, and who here doesn't want to see that? I absolutely have my doubts, but that doesn't mean I'm not on the edge of my seat in HOPES of him being brilliant!


Good post!

[I Eat Staples]

Great post, Lan. I"m with you 100%. There is nothing, as of right now, that makes me see him as the face of the franchise.... BUT>.. there is nothing, as of right now, that makes me root against him. I WANT him to be great. I WANT him to succeed. Why wouldn't I? He could be fantastic for this franchise IF he turns out to be great, and who here doesn't want to see that? I absolutely have my doubts, but that doesn't mean I'm not on the edge of my seat in HOPES of him being brilliant!


Good post!

I'll quote the shorter post but I completely agree with both of you.

[Dzone]

As we saw with Hillis, a good player can be stifled if he ends up on the wrong team with the wrong coach. Hope thats not the case with Tebow. If he is going to be stifled here and never allowed to prove his worth, I would hope he get traded to a team that will utilize his skills to the maximum...

[Bosco]

You'll see him next year most likely.

[jhildebrand]

I still hate the "gave up a bunch of picks" argument. One of those picks was the one which was actually used to get him so it's not like it vanished. Secondly, McD maneuvered his way back in the draft to acquire those picks with the intention of using em to get Tebow. And that is per Ed Werder on draft night who reported McD told him he wanted Thomas (he liked 3 players in rd 1) before the draft even started. So McD got his guy and made the moves for Tebow. Finally, since when can a team go from round 2 to round 1 w/o giving up a future #1? It never goes down that way. McD, for all his screw ups, shouldn't get crushed for this move.

OK. I'm done.

It doesn't matter how McDaniels came about the picks. The fact is Tebow was drafted in the first and we gave up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. How we obtained the picks doesn't matter.

What matters is this team had the picks, and as so many of us have been told in defense of mcdaniels-this team has a ton of holes.

To use those picks on a project QB doesnt validate the ton of holes argument or the rebuilding theory.

Trivia: Who was the last team to take a QB who was considered to be a project? Let alone in the first round?

[jhildebrand]

sorry i thought he was talking about "making it rain"

on a side note: admins please make me a mod, tia :salute:

I got a better shot at becoming a mod and I aint got a chance in snowball's hell :eek:

[honz]

What if Tebow turns out to be the best NFL QB of all time? Would McD become a Broncos legend?

[jhildebrand]

Would McD become a Broncos legend?

He already is :coffee:

[Bosco]

It doesn't matter how McDaniels came about the picks. The fact is Tebow was drafted in the first and we gave up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. How we obtained the picks doesn't matter. Actually it's the difference between net cost vs. gross cost so yeah, it does kinda matter.

Now whether retaining those picks and applying the resources towards other parts of the team would have been the smarter move is always up for debate. I can certainly see the logic in that viewpoint, but since having a true franchise quarterback is a near prerequisite for making deep playoff runs, I'm inclined to agree with making them a very high priority.

[Lancane]

Actually it's the difference between net cost vs. gross cost so yeah, it does kinda matter.

Now whether retaining those picks and applying the resources towards other parts of the team would have been the smarter move is always up for debate. I can certainly see the logic in that viewpoint, but since having a true franchise quarterback is a near prerequisite for making deep playoff runs, I'm inclined to agree with making them a very high priority.

That is also dependent on if he is a franchise quarterback, as we say hindsight is 20/20. Even if he is not the next Steve Young but more the next Ben Roethlisberger then we can undoubtedly say that yes, it was indeed a smart move even though it was a move of risk, the reward in the end was beneficial. However, if Tebow ends up being the next Matt Leinart then the risk proved foul to the benefit of reward, and undoubtedly a bad decision considering such risk compared to need. Especially in light of the possible quarterback class coming out this year, and also how McCoy does in Cleveland over the next few years, because we almost drafted McCoy over Tebow...but again, hindsight is what it is.

[jhildebrand]

Actually it's the difference between net cost vs. gross cost so yeah, it does kinda matter.

Just getting fancy with it. This has been done since the draft as a tactic to remove the criticism of McDaniels-justified criticism mind you. Classic deflection.



Now whether retaining those picks and applying the resources towards other parts of the team would have been the smarter move is always up for debate.

Well the fact that this team has so many holes. I am not sure it is an easy debate for one side of the argument.



I can certainly see the logic in that viewpoint, but since having a true franchise quarterback is a near prerequisite for making deep playoff runs, I'm inclined to agree with making them a very high priority.

Even then, Tebow and franchise QB rarely go together in the same sentence. If he was, I think he would have at least pushed Orton at some point by now.

Take the players most recent comments, including the interim coach's, and I think you can clearly discern that Tebow probably doesn't look too good.

Finally, I agree that you need a franchise QB. I would argue most teams don't rebuild by drafting that piece first. Usually the o and D lines are addressed to some degree.

Funny thing is I do recall me and Rav pusing Josh Freeman. Boy that guy would look great in predominantly orange right now.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I would be satisfied if Tebow put up a QBR greater than the 47 Orton did vs KC or the 27 he did vs AZ...

That would be enough to sell me. Orton has mailed it in for 2 weeks in a row and he's going to do it again vs Oakland this week. Get his sorry ass off the field and out of Denver.

[Bosco]

Just getting fancy with it. This has been done since the draft as a tactic to remove the criticism of McDaniels-justified criticism mind you. Classic deflection. It's not fancy, nor is taking your argument head on a "deflection" (nice try though).

Hell, you're in real estate right? Putting it in those terms would be like owning a house that is worth $100,000, selling it and buying a house that costs $115,000. You've only really spent the $15,000 that wasn't covered from moving the assets you already had.


Even then, Tebow and franchise QB rarely go together in the same sentence. If he was, I think he would have at least pushed Orton at some point by now.

Take the players most recent comments, including the interim coach's, and I think you can clearly discern that Tebow probably doesn't look too good.

Finally, I agree that you need a franchise QB. I would argue most teams don't rebuild by drafting that piece first. Usually the o and D lines are addressed to some degree. Your argument, which I assume to be that franchise quarterbacks start in their rookie years, is based on a false premise. There is no discernible connection between first year playing time and a quarterback's development. It's also complete lunacy to insinuate that Tebow isn't doing well because he hasn't replaced the guy who is currently top 5 in passing yardage.


Funny thing is I do recall me and Rav pusing Josh Freeman. Boy that guy would look great in predominantly orange right now. Freeman wouldn't have been a bad option, but I personally like Tebow's upside alot more.

[TXBRONC]

What if Tebow turns out to be the best NFL QB of all time? Would McD become a Broncos legend?

I seriously doubt it.

[horsepig]

I'm a superstitious ****. If things go really good for me and I make that " oh, damn, here we go" deal, I'll wear those same socks and undies the next time.

That said, athletes are emotional animals and Tebow has that indefinable ability to make the guys around him run faster and jump higher. Just my opinion.

[jhildebrand]

It's not fancy, nor is taking your argument head on a "deflection" (nice try though).

Hell, you're in real estate right? Putting it in those terms would be like owning a house that is worth $100,000, selling it and buying a house that costs $115,000. You've only really spent the $15,000 that wasn't covered from moving the assets you already had.

I got a lot of respect for you Bosco. However, at the end of the day, when this is discussed in the future (presume Tebow fails) NOT ONE person will mention how Denver acquired the picks. It will simply be denver spent a 2, 3, and 4 to draft him in the 1st.

Yet, as others have mentioned, if he does turn out to be a pro with success commensurate with what he did in college, than an entire draft's worth of picks will be worth it.



Your argument, which I assume to be that franchise quarterbacks start in their rookie years, is based on a false premise. There is no discernible connection between first year playing time and a quarterback's development. It's also complete lunacy to insinuate that Tebow isn't doing well because he hasn't replaced the guy who is currently top 5 in passing yardage.

I am simply stating that 1st round qb's at some point should be making some kind of push in their first year especially when they cost so much. I still stand by the idea that drafting Tebow debunks the rebuilding theory as well as the "so many holes" theory.

Using yards only in defense of Orton is silly. I could use 3rd downs only, or last 3 games QB rating average. At the end of the day you have to look at the complete picture. My picture i.e. perception is Orton has shown us all he can be. He is especially terrible on 3rd down and down by 7. All things I would think Tebow would be better or on par when compared to Orton.



Freeman wouldn't have been a bad option, but I personally like Tebow's upside alot more.

Not bad for 17th overall. Even better considering the 2, 3, and 4 could have been used on the D.

[Bosco]

I got a lot of respect for you Bosco. However, at the end of the day, when this is discussed in the future (presume Tebow fails) NOT ONE person will mention how Denver acquired the picks. It will simply be denver spent a 2, 3, and 4 to draft him in the 1st. I agree, and that's my point. Arguing against that perception.

Probably futile but hell, it's late and I'm bored. :laugh:

I am simply stating that 1st round qb's at some point should be making some kind of push in their first year especially when they cost so much. Just about every team in the NFL tries to keep their rookie quarterbacks on the bench for at least a year. Those who do start usually do so out of necessity due to poor play of the previous starter and/or injury. Neither one of those scenarios are applicable in Tebow's case, so we've had the luxury of actually being able to keep him on the bench.

[BroncoStud]

Call me crazy but I would still like to see how Brady Quinn has progressed this season... I don't think it would hurt to get him reps either.

[Mike]

Call me crazy but I would still like to see how Brady Quinn has progressed this season... I don't think it would hurt to get him reps either.

You're crazy.

[GEM]

Call me crazy but I would still like to see how Brady Quinn has progressed this season... I don't think it would hurt to get him reps either.

If I see Quinn take the field...it will be the last Broncos game I watch for awhile. Yes...he sucks THAT bad.

[Lonestar]

I keep hearing that tebow cost us so much.

The way is see it is he cost us a very late First.

For those that say he cost a 2 3 4. While he did THEY were not our 2 3 4. They were swaps we spent someone elses "money" so to speak.

Could we have taken D guys with them Perhaps. But then we would have not been able to keep two other players we kept. Plus we most likely would have had a couple more rookies on an already very young team. Who would have not been kept?

Would they have been those vets on D? Unlikley most likely they would have been middle range players.

Would those other rookies a 2 3 4 contributed immediately probably not other than on ST?

With out looking up the numbers again doing this from memeory.
We had:
11 players over 8 years.
8 players or so between 5 and 7 years.
The rest of them under 4 years.

With IIRC 18 under 2 years.

What if is a nice thing to do as a MMQB.

The way I see it is we got a potential Franchise QB using someone elses money. Had we reached for players MMQBs would have howled as it was.

The term "damned if you do or damned if you don't" comes to mind.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[I Eat Staples]

Tebow was a huge reach. Very few people thought he was first round talent. Very few.

[Cugel]

One game isn't enough. 4 games isn't enough.

I'm a doubter. I'm sure he'll be 'fine' as an NFL QB, but I don't think he was worth 4 picks in a time that we needed so much. He's a big project, for a team that needs nearly EVERYTHING. Thats not when you have the luxury.

For the amount we spent on him, he HAS to perform at an EXTREMELY high level (and no, I don't mean right out of the gate). So right now, I would just need to see solid play, which I COMPLETELY expect to see, if he ever gets any starting time this year.

Even winning, wouldn't change things yet. But we all need more than whats left this season to really get a good feel as to how he's going to do.

To be anything other than a complete disaster Tebow would have to emerge as one of the top 10 QBs in the league.

That's unfair I know. But, it's also NFL reality.

1. Unless you have an elite QB you are NOT going to have a chance to win the SB. If you doubt that, you haven't been paying attention to which QBs have won the past two decades (Aikman, Young, Favre, Elway, Warner, Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, etc.).

2. If Tebow is NOT going to be an elite QB (i.e. a consistent pro-bowl QB the likes of Ben Roethlisberger or Drew Brees), then he's just a waste of time -- postponing the team drafting a QB who WILL be one of those kind of guys.

3. It usually takes a QB 3 years to develop (it took Elway that long). Hence, while we wait to find out if Tebow will be good enough or not, the team is just treading water.

4. They really needed to find out THIS year if Tebow is likely to be the answer by playing him.

That way if the verdict was NEGATIVE, the new GM could use the Broncos top 5 draft pick to get a franchise QB.

Unfortunately, they will probably NOT use the best draft position the team has had in 20 years to take their future franchise QB. But, what if Tebow is exactly what most NFL experts think he is: an athletic guy who will never be an elite passer in the NFL?

Then we wasted all those picks plus all the time we COULD have been developing a new QB.

[BroncoStud]

What's funny is that we will never know until Tebow takes the field. All the discussion in the world matters nonez until he plays and can be evaluated.

[Cugel]

I keep hearing that tebow cost us so much.

The way is see it is he cost us a very late First.

For those that say he cost a 2 3 4. While he did THEY were not our 2 3 4. They were swaps we spent someone elses "money" so to speak.

Your draft picks are YOURS wherever you got them. With spin like that you could have a career in politics. :coffee:


Could we have taken D guys with them Perhaps. But then we would have not been able to keep two other players we kept.

That would make some sense if there weren't a LOT MORE than 2 players on this defense who will be pursuing careers in used car sales next season. :coffee:


Plus we most likely would have had a couple more rookies on an already very young team. Who would have not been kept?

There are barely 3 players on the ENTIRE DEFENSE from 2010 who deserve to be kept (Champ, Dawkins and DJ). the rest are entirely forgettable to downright training-camp fodder.


Would they have been those vets on D? Unlikley most likely they would have been middle range players.

Would those other rookies a 2 3 4 contributed immediately probably not other than on ST?

More spin. The point is that you need good young players to groom for the future. This team doesn't have any on defense. That's the WORST WEAKNESS on the entire team right now! NO depth, no good young players to take the place of aging veterans!


The way I see it is we got a potential Franchise QB using someone elses money.

The way you fail to see more like. You need bi-focals. Do they let you drive like Mr. Magoo? :coffee:

http://robred.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/mrmagoo-1.jpg

[vandammage13]

Tebow was a huge reach. Very few people thought he was first round talent. Very few.

Very few "experts" probably thought Montana or Brady were first round material either.

These are the same experts that touted Jamarcus Russell, Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, and Ryan Leaf as great prospects. (Some of these morons even contemplated whether Leaf should be taken over Manning)

Take what these "experts" say with a grain of salt...They are wrong as often as they are right, if not moreso.

[BroncoStud]

Very few "experts" probably thought Montana or Brady were first round material either.

These are the same experts that touted Jamarcus Russell, Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, and Ryan Leaf as great prospects. (Some of these morons even contemplated whether Leaf should be taken over Manning)

Take what these "experts" say with a grain of salt...They are wrong as often as they are right, if not moreso.

Yeah, you should see the QBs taken ahead of Montana, Brady, and so many others - complete joke. NFL scouts are no more correct than any of us. Guys like Kiper are wrong about 90% of the time.