Orton's trade value is now ZERO

[PAINTERDAVE]

I would not be surprised to see Orton holding a clipboard for Tebow next season.

What team in it's right mind would give up a draft pick for him?
Or pay him the millions he has coming?

The answer is NOBODY.

All those Ortonites who kept insisting Orton simply could not be sat down...
"it would ruin his trade value"...
well he DESTROYED his own trade value big time in Arizona.

[Northman]

Link?

[Buff]

Yeah, no team is going to trade for Orton and the $8 million coming to him next season (at least $5 mil of which is guaranteed). He will be on the roster next year whether it's as a starter or backup.

But, to be fair, the coaches fall into the "Ortonites" category as well. There simply was no reason to sit him down prior to the last two weeks. Up until the last two games the guy had been clearly outperforming the rookie. Now that Orton's play has fallen off, there are decisions to be made.

[BroncoAV06]

Would you rather have Quinn hold the clip-board?

Not like Denver would get a 1st for Orton anyhow.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[PAINTERDAVE]

Link?

Opinion.

[Dreadnought]

Pretty solid opinion. If its not precisely zero it sure as hell is diminished

[PAINTERDAVE]

Yeah, no team is going to trade for Orton and the $8 million coming to him next season (at least $5 mil of which is guaranteed). He will be on the roster next year whether it's as a starter or backup.

But, to be fair, the coaches fall into the "Ortonites" category as well. There simply was no reason to sit him down prior to the last two weeks. Up until the last two games the guy had been clearly outperforming the rookie. Now that Orton's play has fallen off, there are decisions to be made.

I have alwasy maintained that Tebow should have been started after the bye.
It was clear that the team needed a new direction.

Lloyd is now saying that the league figured out McD's "difficult" system by week 5...

imagine if they had simplified the game plan for Tebow's skill set..
and the team could have actually had some success...
while the Rookie cut his teeth.

Oh,Well.. At least we can thank McD for the great Draft position.

[Buff]

Pretty solid opinion. If its not precisely zero it sure as hell is diminished

The OP is right, but it's 20/20 hindsight.

We all thought Topscribe was a prophet halfway through the season. Yes, Orton's value has diminished at his own hand, but who was ready to sit him down as the league's leading passer?

Even if he would have kept putting up the numbers, I think people were going to slap the "system QB" label on him anyway, which means his trade value was never going to be through the roof this offseason.

[PAINTERDAVE]

The OP is right, but it's 20/20 hindsight.

We all thought Topscribe was a prophet halfway through the season. Yes, Orton's value has diminished at his own hand, but who was ready to sit him down as the league's leading passer?

Even if he would have kept putting up the numbers, I think people were going to slap the "system QB" label on him anyway, which means his trade value was never going to be through the roof this offseason.

Many of us called for Tebow to start going into the bye week.

We saw the writing on the wall... and wanted the team to shift gears.

Many of us have given Orton credit when he has played well...
but that does not change the fact that we had the opinion even before the season that Orton wa s NOT our future.

I have been avoiding conflict with my freinds TOP and RC.. both over this. Our opinions are so very different and have been for a long time.

[Dreadnought]

The OP is right, but it's 20/20 hindsight.

We all thought Topscribe was a prophet halfway through the season. Yes, Orton's value has diminished at his own hand, but who was ready to sit him down as the league's leading passer?

Even if he would have kept putting up the numbers, I think people were going to slap the "system QB" label on him anyway, which means his trade value was never going to be through the roof this offseason.

100% true on all counts. maybe Lloyd was right, and our system got figured. That wouldn't shock me. maybe Orton caught lightening in a bottle. that happens too. I actually have no criticism to now of orton's handling; I am pissed about plenty, but not him. He gave good service for a while, sometimes almost great. Now for whatever reason he sucks and needs to be sat down.

I'm in a Zen place for the rest of the year Buff. Nothing more will piss me off much. It doesn't matter. I want to beat oakland pretty bad, but thats about it, and I don't see it happening.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Damn Skippy it aint happening.
Look, we cant even beat the Cards.. their KICKER gave us a beat down.

It aint about wining any more...
it should be about player development...
but that is off the table.

So what is it about?

It is about the players getting out with out injury?
That is our new game plan?

Same old Orton/McD game plan with no McD and a broken Orton.

Absolutly pathetic.

[TXBRONC]

The OP is right, but it's 20/20 hindsight.

We all thought Topscribe was a prophet halfway through the season. Yes, Orton's value has diminished at his own hand, but who was ready to sit him down as the league's leading passer?

Even if he would have kept putting up the numbers, I think people were going to slap the "system QB" label on him anyway, which means his trade value was never going to be through the roof this offseason.

Orton up until the last few weeks played far and away better than I expected. I came to same conclusion you did several weeks ago. Sure Orton is putting up big numbers but there is a disconnect between his stats and the team's record.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Yeah right. if you think a team like minnesota aint lining up to trade for orton in a heart beat then your lunchin dude. Orton is a very good starter but hes not a guy thats gonna carry the team an entire season on his back. hes a guy that with a defense and a run game (ahem peterson, ahem VIKINGS) that will shine. ortons arm is dead and hes mentally beatin. hes takin a ton of big hits also.

ortons still worth a 3rd, late 2nd. minnesota will come calling. favre is done, tavaris is trash. they trade for orton. i can see them trading back. picking up more pics and then trading for orton.

Yes orton has been bad the last 2 games. but seriously when he was all we had he competed and made plays. i dont care when the passes occured. you wanna wipe away peyton manning stats because hes behind? you cant say that orton numbers are meaningless because hes attempting to come back. what should a team do run the ball when there down by 14? its probably harder to throw it when a team knows you have to throw it. Orton was voted the most under rated QB in the NFL by the players and coaches around the league! stop this hate for orton. he is not a elite QB like tebow will be but hes damn good enough to win with if the right pieces are in place

[JaxBroncoGirl]

Orton up until the last few weeks played far and away better than I expected. I came to same conclusion you did several weeks ago. Sure Orton is putting up big numbers but there is a disconnect between his stats and the team's record.

It is not a disconnect, it is called 3rd down conversions. If we cannot do that, then it is a snow ball effect, the defense plays too long and gets tired. Orton is not the guy. Play Quinn or Tebow a few snaps, that should not be hard.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Orton can't be blamed for everything that goes wrong. Dude is a very solid QB. The O became predictable after week 5 according to Lloyd. Don't ya think that makes it MUCH harder on a QB? And he still put up huge stats. Until last week he was the 3rd leading passer in the NFL. Then BOOM, the whole house goes up in flames. Is that his fault too? The whole team is a mess. The WHOLE team. Orton needs the supporting cast to have their heads on, I will acknowledge that, but when the team does, he's hardly the weak link.

[Lancane]

It is not a disconnect, it is called 3rd down conversions. If we cannot do that, then it is a snow ball effect, the defense plays too long and gets tired. Orton is not the guy. Play Quinn or Tebow a few snaps, that should not be hard.

But that's the kicker right there, Tebow went to Ellis to clarify his position with the team, and since that meeting he's been not his usual self, less confident. According to Studesville he can not even play Tebow without verbal authorization? But he is the backup...I wonder if Orton was really hurt if they would play Quinn and not Tebow. Why are they refusing to give the kid valuable face time?

But Orton has no value, he's tired, he looks conquered almost when you look at him. Lloyd is telling the world that this so-called highly complex offense has been figured out...but why? I said months ago in an argument that McDaniels' offense wasn't as complex as he made it sound, and Lloyd in that one comment has verified that much. But why hasn't New England's offense been figured? Superior quarterback and better play, even execution.

When you calculate all that, Orton's value is more around a fourth round pick right now and that's just a fact. Someone in real need may be willing to give up a third...but, what if Tebow is in the organizations' collective mind the future, then they'll probably hold on to Orton one more year.

[cuzz4169]

Who was gonna trade for him in the first place? Hes a system Qb at best with no mobility and no play making skills. Fans have given this guy way to much credit...What has he done???!!! Most of you would take Cutler back in a heartbeat and he's not even a top 10 QB so where does that place Orton? Don't just look at the #'s watch how he plays the game.

Ok going back to 1990 super bowl winners....only 3 teams had avg.
Qbs but they had nice seasons and their Defense was pretty damn good.
Washington, Baltimore & Tampa

You need a top flight QB to win championships in the NFL how many think Orton is that guy? not me!

[Dzone]

Of course look at how horrific Brady Quinn played last year for Cleveland. He was as bad as Orton. BUT- there was still a team stupid enough to give away draft choices and a top notch player for Brady Quinn. We have to hope there is another team out there as stupid as we were and will take Orton in a trade.

[cuzz4169]

Of course look at how horrific Brady Quinn played last year for Cleveland. He was as bad as Orton. BUT- there was still a team stupid enough to give away draft choices and a top notch player for Brady Quinn. We have to hope there is another team out there as stupid as we were and will take Orton in a trade.

We can only hope

[Dreadnought]

Of course look at how horrific Brady Quinn played last year for Cleveland. He was as bad as Orton. BUT- there was still a team stupid enough to give away draft choices and a top notch player for Brady Quinn. We have to hope there is another team out there as stupid as we were and will take Orton in a trade.

Not a good comparison. Orton this year was head and shoulders above what Quinn was for the Browns. Quinn was a true horrorshow; there isn't a team in the league stupid enough to have traded a can of Spam for that stiff. Is there?

[Northman]

Yeah right. if you think a team like minnesota aint lining up to trade for orton in a heart beat then your lunchin dude. Orton is a very good starter but hes not a guy thats gonna carry the team an entire season on his back. hes a guy that with a defense and a run game (ahem peterson, ahem VIKINGS) that will shine. ortons arm is dead and hes mentally beatin. hes takin a ton of big hits also.

ortons still worth a 3rd, late 2nd. minnesota will come calling. favre is done, tavaris is trash. they trade for orton. i can see them trading back. picking up more pics and then trading for orton.

Yes orton has been bad the last 2 games. but seriously when he was all we had he competed and made plays. i dont care when the passes occured. you wanna wipe away peyton manning stats because hes behind? you cant say that orton numbers are meaningless because hes attempting to come back. what should a team do run the ball when there down by 14? its probably harder to throw it when a team knows you have to throw it. Orton was voted the most under rated QB in the NFL by the players and coaches around the league! stop this hate for orton. he is not a elite QB like tebow will be but hes damn good enough to win with if the right pieces are in place

Orton would get killed in Minny right now.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Who was gonna trade for him in the first place? Hes a system Qb at best with no mobility and no play making skills. Fans have given this guy way to much credit...What has he done???!!! Most of you would take Cutler back in a heartbeat and he's not even a top 10 QB so where does that place Orton? Don't just look at the #'s watch how he plays the game.

Ok going back to 1990 super bowl winners....only 3 teams had avg.
Qbs but they had nice seasons and their Defense was pretty damn good.
Washington, Baltimore & Tampa

You need a top flight QB to win championships in the NFL how many think Orton is that guy? not me!

Watchig the games is why I don't like Cutler. I agree, watching yer QB fumbling snaps in the red zone is as fun for me as the next guy, but I prefer some stability over that hot mess. Dude is a poorly timed turnover waiting to happen. Sure, he's fun to watch until he thros that pick or fumbles that snap, but its excruciating once it inevitably happens.

Now, this is not an "Orton is the answer, so I hate Cutler" thing. I just think Cutler lacks the makeup to win anything real in this league.

[TXBRONC]

Watchig the games is why I don't like Cutler. I agree, watching yer QB fumbling snaps in the red zone is as fun for me as the next guy, but I prefer some stability over that hot mess. Dude is a poorly timed turnover waiting to happen. Sure, he's fun to watch until he thros that pick or fumbles that snap, but its excruciating once it inevitably happens.

Now, this is not an "Orton is the answer, so I hate Cutler" thing. I just think Cutler lacks the makeup to win anything real in this league.

I guess that's just as inevitable as when Denver gets behind we can't depend on Orton to rally the team. If anyone lacks the makeup to win anything real it's Orton.

[Traveler]

Of course look at how horrific Brady Quinn played last year for Cleveland. He was as bad as Orton. BUT- there was still a team stupid enough to give away draft choices and a top notch player for Brady Quinn. We have to hope there is another team out there as stupid as we were and will take Orton in a trade.

Don't hold your breath. Personally, I don't think Orton ever really had any trade value in the first place. He was a throw in as part of the Cutler deal. I doubt seriously if we could get a fifth rounder for him, but I'll gladly take whatever we can get.

Keep the spread offense or some version thereof, install Tebow and let him go through the growing pains of becoming a starting QB in this league.

Focus on the defense early and often in this draft.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I guess that's just it's inevitable as when when Denver gets behind we can't depend on Orton to rally the team. If anyone lacks the makeup to win anything real it's Orton.

I don't disagree. I liked Orton's makeup more than most when he came here. TD/INT ratio, win % on an average team. I thought he could steer the ship...and he did. The recent meltdown is concerning. Although the whole thing is a mess, I was hoping for more from him in a leadership role.

[Dzone]

Not a good comparison. Orton this year was head and shoulders above what Quinn was for the Browns. Quinn was a true horrorshow; there isn't a team in the league stupid enough to have traded a can of Spam for that stiff. Is there?

Youre only as good as your last game and Ortons last 2 games were every bit as bad as Brady Quinns play last year. It appears Ortons skills are deteriorating with the wear and tear of pro football. Orton is a different quarterback now than he was earlier in the year. Even then, he was merely racking up stats while losing games

[Tned]

I would not be surprised to see Orton holding a clipboard for Tebow next season.

What team in it's right mind would give up a draft pick for him?
Or pay him the millions he has coming?

The answer is NOBODY.

All those Ortonites who kept insisting Orton simply could not be sat down...
"it would ruin his trade value"...
well he DESTROYED his own trade value big time in Arizona.

Yep, we had a lot of people screaming that if you start Tebow over Orton, Orton's trade value would be crushed. There was never ANY validity to their arguments, but what we have seen the last two weeks is that starting him is what will ultimately crush would little trade value he had.

[BroncoStud]

Part of me wants to keep Orton as the backup, because he would be an elite NFL backup like Jon Kitna. But the other part of me doesn't want the young QB on this roster next year (whoever it may be) to be looking over his shoulder...

Orton is a major problem for a coaching staff. He is borderline good enough to be a decent start in the NFL, but he is never going to be a "goood QB"... So I think it's probably best for the development of the young guys that he is gone, but it's a shame because he is an elite backup. Someone like the COLTS or PACKERS would love to have him.

[TXBRONC]

Part of me wants to keep Orton as the backup, because he would be an elite NFL backup like Jon Kitna. But the other part of me doesn't want the young QB on this roster next year (whoever it may be) to be looking over his shoulder...

Orton is a major problem for a coaching staff. He is borderline good enough to be a decent start in the NFL, but he is never going to be a "goood QB"... So I think it's probably best for the development of the young guys that he is gone, but it's a shame because he is an elite backup. Someone like the COLTS or PACKERS would love to have him.

If Orton isn't the starter next season I think it would still be a good idea to hold on to him as the back up quarterback. Let's say Tebow start next season the new has to make clear he's the starter through thick and thin. A young quarterback's two best friends are solid running game and a solid tight end. If he has those things it makes it a lot easier for him to succeed.

[Juriga72]

Orton can't be blamed for everything that goes wrong. Dude is a very solid QB. The O became predictable after week 5 according to Lloyd. Don't ya think that makes it MUCH harder on a QB? And he still put up huge stats. Until last week he was the 3rd leading passer in the NFL. Then BOOM, the whole house goes up in flames. Is that his fault too? The whole team is a mess. The WHOLE team. Orton needs the supporting cast to have their heads on, I will acknowledge that, but when the team does, he's hardly the weak link.

9 of Kyle's 11 wins are when the Defense held the other team to 20 points or less.

What part of mediocre do you not understand?

[GEM]

100% true on all counts. maybe Lloyd was right, and our system got figured. That wouldn't shock me. maybe Orton caught lightening in a bottle. that happens too. I actually have no criticism to now of orton's handling; I am pissed about plenty, but not him. He gave good service for a while, sometimes almost great. Now for whatever reason he sucks and needs to be sat down.

I'm in a Zen place for the rest of the year Buff. Nothing more will piss me off much. It doesn't matter. I want to beat oakland pretty bad, but thats about it, and I don't see it happening.

Just like defenses figured out Plummer's bootleg, they figured out Orton's statue in the back and no mobility. You pressure the hell out of him, get in his head from the start and there's nowhere for him to go.

[BORDERLINE]

Orton's value same as Sage rosenfels when he was in Minny...
What did the G-Men give up for him that's what teams will give Denver.

Miami, Carolina , SF , NYJ , Ten , all teams that need solid back-up

[Ravage!!!]

Orton won't be on the roster next year, if Tebow is the starter.

When have we seen a drafted QB come in, replace teh incumbent as the starter, and the team kept the prior QB? Never unless the new QB takes over part way through the season, then the vet is released afterwards.

Its never a smart thing to keep the prior starter on teh roster if you know he's not going to start. He'll be traded away.

[Traveler]

He'll be traded away.

Or cut!

[Juriga72]

I don't disagree. I liked Orton's makeup more than most when he came here. TD/INT ratio, win % on an average team. I thought he could steer the ship...and he did. The recent meltdown is concerning. Although the whole thing is a mess, I was hoping for more from him in a leadership role.

Except he cannot lead a team to score.
2009 scoring rank #20- 20.4 pts/game
2010 scoring rank #19- 20.7 pts/ game


so JUST to be .500 this year we would need the #10 scoring defense (Balitmore 17.6 pts/game)...

THATS how average Kyle Orton is. He needs a top 10 defense JUST to be average.

[vandammage13]

Except he cannot lead a team to score.
2009 scoring rank #20- 20.4 pts/game
2010 scoring rank #19- 20.7 pts/ game


so JUST to be .500 this year we would need the #10 scoring defense (Balitmore 17.6 pts/game)...

THATS how average Kyle Orton is. He needs a top 10 defense JUST to be average.

LOL that's pretty good.

[Bosco]

I would not be surprised to see Orton holding a clipboard for Tebow next season.

What team in it's right mind would give up a draft pick for him?
Or pay him the millions he has coming?

The answer is NOBODY.

All those Ortonites who kept insisting Orton simply could not be sat down...
"it would ruin his trade value"...
well he DESTROYED his own trade value big time in Arizona.

I don't think two bad games in a row is going to nuke his trade value, especially if he bounces back over the last 3 games.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Who was gonna trade for him in the first place? Hes a system Qb at best with no mobility and no play making skills. Fans have given this guy way to much credit...What has he done???!!! Most of you would take Cutler back in a heartbeat and he's not even a top 10 QB so where does that place Orton? Don't just look at the #'s watch how he plays the game.

Ok going back to 1990 super bowl winners....only 3 teams had avg.
Qbs but they had nice seasons and their Defense was pretty damn good.
Washington, Baltimore & Tampa

You need a top flight QB to win championships in the NFL how many think Orton is that guy? not me!

You are absolutely clueless. orton was voted by players and coaches the most underrated player in the game. Him and the RB foster! this is not only (fans) giving orton his credit. get your facts right. i watched how he played most the year. he was effective with 8 yards rushing per game. get real:tsk:

[TimTebow15MVP]

Just like defenses figured out Plummer's bootleg, they figured out Orton's statue in the back and no mobility. You pressure the hell out of him, get in his head from the start and there's nowhere for him to go.

but see a good coaching staff knows a how to utilize orton. a team can blitz all they want dude. if there selling out with the blitz then you have to execute the screen.and not thatbullshit bubble screen mcdaniels loves to use. a real screen. the broncos do not execute the screen to moreno enough. thats how you make teams stay off orton. when there flying in and moreno and the OL is headed down the field. our coaching staff doesnt know how to utilize talent. this OL can move and run. we should be able to execute the HB screen at a high level. but for some reason we dont and wed rather throw bubble screens. plummer was ran outof the league when they figured him out because he couldnt stand in the pocket. orton doesnt need to be mobile. a good staff protects him by screen plays and a good OL and a good Run game.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Of course look at how horrific Brady Quinn played last year for Cleveland. He was as bad as Orton. BUT- there was still a team stupid enough to give away draft choices and a top notch player for Brady Quinn. We have to hope there is another team out there as stupid as we were and will take Orton in a trade.

We were the only team stupid enough. No other team wanted him. Quinn had been on the market for a 5th rounder (Cleveland's original, highly publicized asking price) for weeks. We swoop in and offer a 6th and Hillis because McDaniels hates him. The Browns laugh all the way to the bank and to the double digit TDs Hillis has provided. We sigh and continue to watch Orton struggle and not convert 3rd downs or score in the redzone while Quinn is typically the #3 inactive QB.

Once again, we were suckered.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I feel Orton's value really is shit right now. Seriously, as a coach of even a bad team, I'd rather start an unknown rookie (like a John Skelton) over Orton. Wouldn't you? People talk about all the potential bad habits Tebow will have to overcome if he starts, Orton has the WORST set of bad habits of any QB I've seen.

He plays scared; locks on to receivers; refuses to take the big hit to deliver the on-target throw on third down; throws balls in the dirt when force to scramble; can't avoid or escape from even a one-handed, jersey grab sack because he's slow AND weak; throws "at" his receivers instead of "to" them forcing them to adjust to his passes than thereby ruining any chance for YAC; and is about as motivating a leader as the rain man.

The sooner this guy is no longer the starter, the better. I don't even think he cares anymore.

[TXBRONC]

I feel Orton's value really is shit right now. Seriously, as a coach of even a bad team, I'd rather start an unknown rookie (like a John Skelton) over Orton. Wouldn't you? People talk about all the potential bad habits Tebow will have to overcome if he starts, Orton has the WORST set of bad habits of any QB I've seen.

He plays scared; locks on to receivers; refuses to take the big hit to deliver the on-target throw on third down; throws balls in the dirt when force to scramble; can't avoid or escape from even a one-handed, jersey grab sack because he's slow AND weak; throws "at" his receivers instead of "to" them forcing them to adjust to his passes than thereby ruining any chance for YAC; and is about as motivating a leader as the rain man.

The sooner this guy is no longer the starter, the better. I don't even think he cares anymore.

I don't think Orton's market value has changed at all. At the start of the season I thought he would be worth a mid round pick and I don't think that has ever really changed.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I don't think Orton's market value has changed at all. At the start of the season I thought he would be worth a mid round pick and I don't think that has ever really changed.

I doubt it. Orton wasn't a known commodity and didn't have a lot of tape on him, healthy that is, as he does from this past year. Who wants a guy that, even when healthy, only plays well when your team is getting smoked, but never enough for a comeback?

I'd rather take my lumps with a rookie and teach him how to lead a team than watch Orton self destruct week after week.

From what I've seen this year, Orton will never start a game with another NFL team (other than Denver) unless it's as a backup and their starter is hurt. I don't think I've seen as uninspired QB play since the last time Jawalrus Russel or Ryan Leaf laced them up. I'm not kidding. A 27 QBR is unacceptable even for a rookie. 2 weeks in a row should get your ass benched.

Would you spend a 4th or 5th round pick on Kyle Orton?

[PAINTERDAVE]

3 and 10.

That says it all.

[TXBRONC]

I doubt it. Orton wasn't a known commodity and didn't have a lot of tape on him, healthy that is, as he does from this past year. Who wants a guy that, even when healthy, only plays well when your team is getting smoked, but never enough for a comeback?

I'd rather take my lumps with a rookie and teach him how to lead a team than watch Orton self destruct week after week.

From what I've seen this year, Orton will never start a game with another NFL team (other than Denver) unless it's as a backup and their starter is hurt. I don't think I've seen as uninspired QB play since the last time Jawalrus Russel or Ryan Leaf laced them up. I'm not kidding. A 27 QBR is unacceptable even for a rookie. 2 weeks in a row should get your ass benched.

Would you spend a 4th or 5th round pick on Kyle Orton?

If he was the best option available I probably would. That being said I still would see him as long term solution as a starter.

[BroncoStud]

I don't think two bad games in a row is going to nuke his trade value, especially if he bounces back over the last 3 games.

Let's hope this is the last start Kyle Orton will see as a Bronco... He's a bum, ship him out.

[claymore]

Ortons value was never really high. His upside doesnt make anyone tingly in their pants.

[JDL]

Many of us called for Tebow to start going into the bye week.

We saw the writing on the wall... and wanted the team to shift gears.

Many of us have given Orton credit when he has played well...
but that does not change the fact that we had the opinion even before the season that Orton wa s NOT our future.

I have been avoiding conflict with my freinds TOP and RC.. both over this. Our opinions are so very different and have been for a long time.

Just like Carolina did... gee that Clausen guy looks great despite having a hell of a lot more pro style experience than Tebow. :eek:

Did Steve Young a whole hell of a lot of good to throw him into the fire of a miserable team that couldn't perform around him.

We are not 3-10 because of Orton, we are 3-10 because much of the play around him this season has sucked miserably, for more than 2 games... throwing Tebow in as a starter that early would have essentially been giving him NO chance to succeed... just because you and all the fans were freaking bored with the team as is... they're losers this year... get over it.

The proper way is and always has been to ease Tebow in, a few series here and there and maybe, just maybe if the team is functioning properly around him, let him start a game or two. Instead you and a bunch of other dolts would throw him into the middle of a blown up system, one he won't be playing in next year, just so you can take the shiny toy out for a ride before he's ready... the players see it, the coaches see it and the organization sees it... you don't insert your QB of the future as captain of the Titanic when it's already sunk... Tebow needs a stable cast, system and organization around him so that he can properly mature into the role. Conversely, throwing Orton under the bus just cuz you are sick of him is ridiculous... you can't wait to throw him out on the street... presumably so you can see the next f-ing Chris Simms or Bradlee Van Pelt brought in to be some kind of street garbage pretend backup QB. Orton is a pro and he will handle it when the time comes and we will have a hell of an insurance policy for 2011 if we handle it correctly .... and so far we have because the time wasn't the bye week, it wasn't 2 weeks ago, the time isn't even now... on the road in Oakland... are you serious? Maybe in 2 weeks in front of the home crowd, maybe he'll get extensive time or even a start... but all this b-ing and moaning is shortsighted and ridiculous beyond belief.

[JDL]

Let's hope this is the last start Kyle Orton will see as a Bronco... He's a bum, ship him out.

Yeah let's go get some more winners like Danny Kannell, Bradlee Van Pelt and Chris Simms (to name a few) to be a backup on a team with a 2nd year QB (Some don't think even has a chance to develop) ... oh wait... lest we forget f-ing Brady Quinn who played his @ss straight into 3rd string in the preseason... all brilliant ideas folks... we need to get rid of a guy who has been nothing but the consumate pro... has won plenty of games in the NFL ... is well-liked by his teammates ... and would be one of the best backups in the league and is an average starter by league standards... yeah.. that's not what we want on our team at all... particularly as we head into 18 game seasons. Smartest thing I've ever heard. :coffee:

[Juriga72]

"Winners like Danny Kannell...BVP!!!! Chris Simms!!!!"

You mean instead of a guy who has a starting record of 11-17? Because 11-17 shows me "He just wins games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Oh wait. Smartest thing I ever heard.

How about a guy who is at the bottom of the nfl for 3rd downs made!!!!
How about a guy who ALWAYS "Leads his teams to punts!!!!"

Quick question here.... IF quarterback A "Leads" his team to:
4th in punts 2005
2nd in punts 2008
12th in punts 2009
7th in punts 2010

Hmmmmmm see a pattern of crap? I know I do

[vandammage13]

"Winners like Danny Kannell...BVP!!!! Chris Simms!!!!"

You mean instead of a guy who has a starting record of 11-17? Because 11-17 shows me "He just wins games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Oh wait. Smartest thing I ever heard.

How about a guy who is at the bottom of the nfl for 3rd downs made!!!!
How about a guy who ALWAYS "Leads his teams to punts!!!!"

Quick question here.... IF quarterback A "Leads" his team to:
4th in punts 2005
2nd in punts 2008
12th in punts 2009
7th in punts 2010

Hmmmmmm see a pattern of crap? I know I do

But wait!!! Don't you know in 2005 Kyle was a rookie? And in 2008 and 2009 he was playing on not one, but two sprained ankles!!!....This year he is playing like a pro bowler!!! What's not to like?

[Juriga72]

But wait!!! Don't you know in 2005 Kyle was a rookie? And in 2008 and 2009 he was playing on not one, but two sprained ankles!!!....This year he is playing like a pro bowler!!! What's not to like?

LOl.... its always something with Kyle.
Lets look at THIS year:
1st down qb rating- 98.6
2nd down qb rating- 91.6
3rd down qb rating- 58.0

I know... I KNOW... "Kyle Orton fan club" (also known as DOG Nation) will say..."You CAN'T do well in thrid and LONG!!!!!!"

3rd and LESS than 3 yards to go- QB rating 54.4
"3rd and 3- 3rd and 7"- QB rating 45.8
"3rd and 8- 3rd and 10"- QB rating 78.4

No... Kyle NEEDS to be in 3rd and long just to be average.

[BroncoStud]

Yeah let's go get some more winners like Danny Kannell, Bradlee Van Pelt and Chris Simms (to name a few) to be a backup on a team with a 2nd year QB (Some don't think even has a chance to develop) ... oh wait... lest we forget f-ing Brady Quinn who played his @ss straight into 3rd string in the preseason... all brilliant ideas folks... we need to get rid of a guy who has been nothing but the consumate pro... has won plenty of games in the NFL ... is well-liked by his teammates ... and would be one of the best backups in the league and is an average starter by league standards... yeah.. that's not what we want on our team at all... particularly as we head into 18 game seasons. Smartest thing I've ever heard. :coffee:

Esay there smart guy... If Orton is willing to exclusively come back and be a BACK-UP, which he would be elite at, I would be all for keeping him. If he is willing to go the Jon Kitna route - great! If Orton is coming back to compete for the starting job in his mind, then he needs to go.

[vandammage13]

LOl.... its always something with Kyle.
Lets look at THIS year:
1st down qb rating- 98.6
2nd down qb rating- 91.6
3rd down qb rating- 58.0

I know... I KNOW... "Kyle Orton fan club" (also known as DOG Nation) will say..."You CAN'T do well in thrid and LONG!!!!!!"

3rd and LESS than 3 yards to go- QB rating 54.4
"3rd and 3- 3rd and 7"- QB rating 45.8
"3rd and 8- 3rd and 10"- QB rating 78.4

No... Kyle NEEDS to be in 3rd and long just to be average.

Yeah...but yet somehow, people like Top and other members of the KO Army would still be blind to those numbers and would be able to come up with more excuses.

I wonder if Orton's performance has left Top in a deep depression, because I haven't seen him on here since the last game...LOL

[Ravage!!!]

Seems everyone has an example for what they want. JDL will bring up Clausen, and I can bring up Matt Ryan. He'll bring up Steve Young, and I can bring up Bradford. If the QB is good, throwing him "Into the fire" has absolutely NO proof of hurting a QB. Just as their is NO proof that sitting them does any good.

If you go by what the QBs that sat say, themselves, they will tell you they learned MUCH MUCH more when playing than they ever did sitting.

Cutler played with the worst defense in the NFL his rookie season and INCREASED our scoring. If Tebow is worth a 1st round pick, then it makes no sense (to me) to say that he's GAINING valuable "learning time" sitting on the bench and watching Kyle Orton.

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah let's go get some more winners like Danny Kannell, Bradlee Van Pelt and Chris Simms (to name a few) to be a backup on a team with a 2nd year QB (Some don't think even has a chance to develop) ... oh wait... lest we forget f-ing Brady Quinn who played his @ss straight into 3rd string in the preseason... all brilliant ideas folks... we need to get rid of a guy who has been nothing but the consumate pro... has won plenty of games in the NFL ... is well-liked by his teammates ... and would be one of the best backups in the league and is an average starter by league standards... yeah.. that's not what we want on our team at all... particularly as we head into 18 game seasons. Smartest thing I've ever heard. :coffee:

Name me one example of a QB that was the starter, and lost his job to the incoming rookie, and STAYED as a back-up. I'm not talking about midway or part way through the season. I'm talking one that stayed as the back-up from the 1st game.

Show me a coach, that keeps the former incumbent starter, as the back-up, and I'll show you a coach that is just ASKING for controversy. Coaches don't keep the former starter once they have moved on, and the former starters don't stick around to back-up the guy they once were in front of, or that was drafted to take their place.

If Tebow is the starter, Kyle Orton will NOT be on this team.

[Juriga72]

Yeah...but yet somehow, people like Top and other members of the KO Army would still be blind to those numbers and would be able to come up with more excuses.

I wonder if Orton's performance has left Top in a deep depression, because I haven't seen him on here since the last game...LOL

Of course they alos seem to forget that in 2006 when he had ZERO snaps..... The Bears go to the Super Bowl.

2005 Bears scoring O- 26th 16.2 pts/game

2008 Bears scoring- #14 23.4 pts/game

2009 Bronco scoring- #20 20.4 pts/game

2010 Bronco scoring- #19 20.7 pts/game

So in ONE year he leads a barely better than average scoring offense.

But "He is the leader for yards thrown for...."

[Cugel]

Many of us have given Orton credit when he has played well...
but that does not change the fact that we had the opinion even before the season that Orton wa s NOT our future.

I actually grew to like Orton (up to the last 2 weeks) because he played about as well as you could expect from a guy with limited athletic skills and talent to do. He obviously works hard and the Broncos woes during MOST of this season were not his fault.

He's obviously lost some confidence the last 2 weeks and looks shell-shocked out there. I want him out of there, but I can respect him.

It's obvious that neither Tebow, now a new rookie QB would be ready for game 1 next season. Tebow will have ZERO experience and will need to be broken in slowly (as they should have done this year).

A rookie would need at least 8 weeks to get remotely ready to start.

If the Broncos tank early and are out of it by mid-season (likely) then perhaps you put the rookie in.

Tebow, I think, will probably start week one. I don't think he'll be ready by then. He must be pretty raw if McDaniels never used him. (We can safely discount all the official lies about "Orton was playing great so we didn't want to use Tebow?")

But, what if he is no better than Orton is right now? Do we have a "QB controversy"? Can Tebow be benched in favor of bringing back the veteran?

Ugly times and rough water ahead.

[Ravage!!!]

But, what if he is no better than Orton is right now? Do we have a "QB controversy"? Can Tebow be benched in favor of bringing back the veteran?

Ugly times and rough water ahead.

I think THIS is the reason we haven't seen Tebow. Once you start him, then there is no going back.

Once Tebow is named the starter, the fans won't accept us going BACK to Tebow. If you have an open competition, and Kyle comes out on top, then there is the problem of admitting drafting Tebow was a BIG mistake. Not only because we used so many picks to get a project, but a project that can't even beat out Kyle Orton. That says a TON.

It also says a ton, if the FO is concerned about the inability to go back. Meaning, it seems they are planning on starting Next year with Orton as the starter, and then replacing later that year. If this is the case, this says a lot about the lack of progress that they have seen from Tebow.

I just can't believe, for a moment, that they are worried about "breaking Tebow's confidence" by putting him in the game. They can't possibly be worried about hurting him, they can't possibly be worried bout "hindering" his learning curve since everyone knows that the BEST way to learn is to actually PLAY.

It would seem to me, at this point, that the FO is thinking about next year and not wanting to put the cart before the horse (or bronco in this case).

[BroncoStud]

It's funny all this talk of Tebow not being better than Orton...

In 2004 Tommy Maddux was QB of the Steelers when they drafted Big Ben. Maddox was expected to start while Big Ben was brought along slowly, as he was a project QB. Well, Maddox gets hurt and the rest is history, best thing that happened to that franchise and Bill Cowher doesn't have a Super Bowl ring if Maddox doesn't get hurt.

Say what you want, but there were probably coaches and players on that roster that felt Maddox was the better QB because Ben was unproven.

Orton has done NOTHING to secure himself as the starter of this team in any reasonable expectation. He is 5-18 in his last 23 games. Denver ranks in the bottom of the NFL on conversion downs. Orton has lost 2 games in a row for this ball club. The offense is worse in almost every category since Cutler was traded away...

The BEST thing that would happen to the 2010 Denver Broncos is to get him off the field and put in someone who is capable of making plays. People would be laughed off the field now if they said what they said then "Tommy Maddox gives us the best chance to win"...

" "Exciting?" Faneca replied to a question with disbelief in his voice, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported. "No, it's not exciting. Do you want to go work with some little young kid who's just out of college?"
-That is what Alen Faneca, then Center for the Steelers said about the rookie starting a game, I'm guessing he retracted that statement when the rookie eventually won him a Super Bowl.

[Juriga72]

It's funny all this talk of Tebow not being better than Orton...

In 2004 Tommy Maddux was QB of the Steelers when they drafted Big Ben. Maddox was expected to start while Big Ben was brought along slowly, as he was a project QB. Well, Maddox gets hurt and the rest is history, best thing that happened to that franchise and Bill Cowher doesn't have a Super Bowl ring if Maddox doesn't get hurt.

Say what you want, but there were probably coaches and players on that roster that felt Maddox was the better QB because Ben was unproven.

Orton has done NOTHING to secure himself as the start of this team in any reasonable expectation. He is 5-18 in his last 23 games. Denver ranks in the bottom of the NFL on conversion downs. Orton has lost 2 games in a row for this ball club.

The BEST thing that would happen to the 2010 Denver Broncos is to get him off the field and put in someone who is capable of making plays. People would be laughed off the field now if they said what they said then "Tommy Maddox gives us the best chance to win"...

Ya, whatever.

They also seem to forget that Tom "MVP" Brady was sitting on the sidelines when Bledsoe almost was killed. He had 3 pass attempts in his first year, and without the "Kyle Orton excuse #1"- "He didnt have ANY reps with the recievers!!!!" he goes out as a 6th round pick and wins a Super Bowl.

Golly...all without ANY reps with the #1 recievers.

Of course Ortonites would also say that "Bledsoe should never lose his job to injury"

ROTFLMAO

[slim]

They also seem to forget that Tom "MVP" Brady was sitting on the sidelines when Bledsoe almost was killed. He had 3 pass attempts in his first year, and without the "Kyle Orton excuse #1"- "He didnt have ANY reps with the recievers!!!!" he goes out as a 6th round pick and wins a Super Bowl.

Golly...all without ANY reps with the #1 recievers.

Of course Ortonites would also say that "Bledsoe should never lose his job to injury"

ROTFLMAO

He managed to go through the regular season and playoffs without getting any reps with #1 WRs?

That is impressive.

[Juriga72]

He managed to go through the regular season and playoffs without getting any reps with #1 WRs?

That is impressive.

Yup.... JUST like Kyle "Didn't get ANY reps HIS rookie year, that's why he was so bad"

See... EVERY Orton-excuse can only work for Kyle, NO ONE else can use the same excuse cause it doesn't count.

JUST like this year:
"Kyle needs a running game!!!!" The last two weeks are the best running games we have had and guess what??? Kyle sucks....

"Kyle leads the NFL in yardage!!!! He's a MVP!!!!" Yes.... when a team goes up by 45 points, they will give you a ton of yards and useless touchdowns.

"Kyle can't make 3rd down conversion because they are ALL 3rd and long"- Nope.. He just sucks at it. His 3rd and 3 or LESS sucks, his third and 3- 7 yards....SUCKS. He IS average when it comes to 3rd and 8 or more tho...

"Kyle needs to score 30 points JUST to keep even with how many points the defense gives up" NO... in 9 of his 11 wins the defense has kept the other team to 20 points or less, while he has scored MORE than 30 only 4 times in two years now.....

[slim]

Yup.... JUST like Kyle "Didn't get ANY reps HIS rookie year, that's why he was so bad"

See... EVERY Orton-excuse can only work for Kyle, NO ONE else can use the same excuse cause it doesn't count.

JUST like this year:
"Kyle needs a running game!!!!" The last two weeks are the best running games we have had and guess what??? Kyle sucks....

"Kyle leads the NFL in yardage!!!! He's a MVP!!!!" Yes.... when a team goes up by 45 points, they will give you a ton of yards and useless touchdowns.

"Kyle can't make 3rd down conversion because they are ALL 3rd and long"- Nope.. He just sucks at it. His 3rd and 3 or LESS sucks, his third and 3- 7 yards....SUCKS. He IS average when it comes to 3rd and 8 or more tho...

"Kyle needs to score 30 points JUST to keep even with how many points the defense gives up" NO... in 9 of his 11 wins the defense has kept the other team to 20 points or less, while he has scored MORE than 30 only 4 times in two years now.....

You need to switch to decaf, JMO.

[vandammage13]

You need to switch to decaf, JMO.

No way..I get a kick out of it. What he says is pretty funny (But still true) if you ask me.

[BroncoStud]

I agree. I don't see what ANYONE saw or sees in Kyle Orton. When he steps on the field I see a guy who locks onto WRs, who has no mobility, who has no athleticism, who has a weak arm, and who doesn't have the makeup to be a great NFL QB.

This shouldn't even be a debate. His NFL career has shown us that Kyle Orton sucks in a traditional dropback offense, he doesn't have the speed or the ARM to function out of deep drops consistently.

[chazoe60]

I quit holding my tongue about Kyle Orton after the SF game. Sorry, but anyone sticking up for him after that debacle needs heir head examined. In that one game he dove two yards short of a first, took the most embarrassing phantom sack since Favre gave Strahan a late Xmas gift, and fumbled and threw a pick with the game on the line.

I refuse to stick up for a guy who so often just flat out gives up on drives and games. We as Bronco fans have the right to demand more, hopefully we get more sooner rather than later.

[Juriga72]

You need to switch to decaf, JMO.

Ha.. maybe..... I am just tired of ANYONE trying to defend the undefendable.
Kyle is a stat machine. I just love the excuses his fans give. The very excuses they give for Kyle, that hated Jay for.

Some of the best "Why I hate Jay"-

"He never wins the close games"
"He throws for yards not scores"
"He's never had a winning record since high school"
"He folds under pressure"

When Kyle came here even Kyle said "I am here to win". Please tell me who has the "NFL record for wins by a conerback".

Sorry but going 11-18 shows me all I need to know about Kyle... He's a loser.

[cardoso]

I quit holding my tongue about Kyle Orton after the SF game. Sorry, but anyone sticking up for him after that debacle needs heir head examined. In that one game he dove two yards short of a first, took the most embarrassing phantom sack since Favre gave Strahan a late Xmas gift, and fumbled and threw a pick with the game on the line.

I refuse to stick up for a guy who so often just flat out gives up on drives and games. We as Bronco fans have the right to demand more, hopefully we get more sooner rather than later.

:salute::salute::salute::salute:

[cardoso]

Ha.. maybe..... I am just tired of ANYONE trying to defend the undefendable.
Kyle is a stat machine. I just love the excuses his fans give. The very excuses they give for Kyle, that hated Jay for.

Some of the best "Why I hate Jay"-

"He never wins the close games"
"He throws for yards not scores"
"He's never had a winning record since high school"
"He folds under pressure"

When Kyle came here even Kyle said "I am here to win". Please tell me who has the "NFL record for wins by a conerback".

Sorry but going 11-18 shows me all I need to know about Kyle... He's a loser.


yup! an NFL Qb doesn't go into every year not knowing if he will be the starter or not like he did in Chicago. An NFL QB does not get benched like he did so often in Chicago. and Kyle has continued to show why he's not an NFL QB in denver.

[G_Money]

*rubs forehead*

Orton was not the second coming of Drew Brees 5 weeks ago, and he's not Brodie Croyle now. QBs have bad games.

Do I think we can win a SB with Orton? No.

Do I think we could have winning seasons with him? Yes.

Orton to me is another Jake Plummer. Some people loved Jake. He won, after all. My problem with Jake was I knew he would fold like a lawn chair. Orton is the same way - expectations seem to get to him. Both have these Achilles heels in their makeup that seems to hamstring their ability to win when it matters. Orton seems to have a different problem where he is anti-inspirational...but this season, who HAS been inspirational? Who is the locker room leader? Nobody worthwhile, that's for sure.

Orton can play QB. He's not the greatest QB and he's not the worst. You don't want him as the leader of your team, but there are other QBs like that.

Not great ones...but then the people who were claiming Orton is a great were putting too much pressure on him.

He's a great backup and a decentish starter with several flaws.

Tebow should play, because we need to see if he has what it takes to be a starter in the NFL with more upside than Orton.

But Orton doesn't have to be the worst starter in history to give Tebow that chance, so there's no need to make him out to be.

/end alternate universe where I defend Orton

~G