STUD's Remark that Kills Me...

[BroncoStud]

Today from the presser

"While Tebow may get some additional practice time this week, Studesville said his responsibility was to put the team on the field that he thinks gives the Broncos the best chance to win. And right now, that makes Orton the starter, he said."


Seriously, WTF does Kyle give us the best chance to win? He has almost singlehandedly lost the Broncos 2 games in a row... This guy is a joke and he does not have the best interests of the Denver Broncos franchise in mind, only HIS interests as a Head Coach in the future. Honestly, the Raiders are going to destroy us this weekend, McFadden will run wild and Campbell will have 2 TDs... For the first time, I won't care if the Broncos lose.

If these coaches and this front office intend to ride Orton to the bottom of the sea I have no interest in going down with them nor will I care to see further embarrassment. It's going to take an injury to get Orton out. Great time to be a Denver fan. :elefant:

Woody nailed it, this guy doesn't give a rat's ass about the Denver Broncos, he's using this as an audition for next year or in the future, and he is going to leave the next GM/HC with almost no live action gamefilm to study on Tebow or Quinn. What an asshat.

[silkamilkamonico]

LMAO

This organization is just chalk full of fail.

[silkamilkamonico]

Woody nailed it, this guy doesn't give a rat's ass about the Denver Broncos, he's using this as an audition for next year or in the future, and he is going to leave the next GM/HC with almost no live action gamefilm to study on Tebow or Quinn. What an asshat.

IMHO Studs is just a mere puppet for a team that's being run behind the scenes right now. There is no way in hell some interim head coach who has no knowledge of ever running an entire unit has full control of what's happening with the team in the final weeks of this meaningless season.

If he does have full control, then we are even worse off in upper management/front office/ownership than I originally thought.

[BroncoTech]

I'll take the Broncos and 59 points.

[Mike]

What's wrong with you guys? Kyle Orton is playing at a pro-bowl level.

[BroncoStud]

Why is our front office too high on themselves and this franchise to play a young QB? We just got destroyed by 30 points by the Arizona Cardinals, who started a ROOKIE QB for the 2nd time this season.

Flacco started as a rookie. Big Ben started as a rookie. Peyton Manning started as a rookie. Eli Manning started as a rookie. Why are Ellis/Bowlen too good for that?

I want to be a good fan as I feel I always have, but it just feels to me like Bowlen/Ellis don't care right now about the fans watching the games on Sunday. It feels like they are purposely keeping this team in the rut it has been. We have always been loyal fans and yet they expect us to tune in or show up and watch this garbage they are fielding.

When your QB completes 40% of his passes in a span of 2 weeks while turning it over 5 times and being 100% non-competitive on offense there is no justifiable reason not to make a change.

[rationalfan]

Today from the presser

"While Tebow may get some additional practice time this week, Studesville said his responsibility was to put the team on the field that he thinks gives the Broncos the best chance to win. And right now, that makes Orton the starter, he said."




reading between the lines: tebow is either very raw, or very bad.

[underrated29]

reading between the lines: tebow is either very raw, or very bad.

even if so kyle didnt complete shiat...Tebow could at least run for some yards.

[vandammage13]

What's wrong with you guys? Kyle Orton is playing at a pro-bowl level.

LOL....you kill me

[vandammage13]

reading between the lines: tebow is either very raw, or very bad.

Maybe so, but I know he can't possibly do any worse than noodle arm has been.

[JDL]

Organization - Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win

Fans - NO! PLAY CHRIS SIMMS!!!


That's all you need to know before listening to fans!

[BroncoStud]

Organization - Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win

Fans - NO! PLAY CHRIS SIMMS!!!


That's all you need to know before listening to fans!

Fans wouldn't scream for another QB if the starter was a keeper. Orton got booed in Chicago, he's getting booed in Denver. Seems like a strange coincidence. He also got benched at Purdue and his draft stock plummetted.

Last year Denver was trying to make the playoffs, now Denver should be evaluating their roster. Playing Orton is stupid, no matter how you try to defend it.

[Mike]

LOL....you kill me

Come on, give the guy a break. He is just in a little slump. Sooner or later he might break out of it.

[BroncoStud]

Come on, give the guy a break. He is just in a little slump. Sooner or later he might break out of it.

So he'll go from horrible to average... YAY! :elefant:

[Mike]

So he'll go from horrible to average... YAY! :elefant:

Naw, I would say it like this....below average until the game is out of reach and then awesomeness in garbage time. Or slightly mediocre while the game is close, but then horrible when the Broncos have a chance to win or tie.

But obviously the best chance for the Broncos to win...obviously. Once he breaks out of his slump. Because the Broncos were winning before he slumped and was playing at
a "pro bowl level". Obviously.

[Dzone]

One is led to think that if Tebow was looking great in practice that the coaches would be chomping at the bit to get him onto the field. They dont seem to be in any hurry to play him, which may or may not mean that Tebow looks awful in practice...
Im a Tebow fan, but cant understand why he cant replace a terrible quarterback like Orton...I mean, Orton is right now playing as bad as any other QB in the league...maybe the guy in GB and Brody Croyle are worse, but that aint saying much...He clearly got outplayed yesterday by a rookie from a division3 school...Yet, Tebow remains on the bench...scratching my head

[TXBRONC]

Fans wouldn't scream for another QB if the starter was a keeper. Orton got booed in Chicago, he's getting booed in Denver. Seems like a strange coincidence. He also got benched at Purdue and his draft stock plummetted.

Last year Denver was trying to make the playoffs, now Denver should be evaluating their roster. Playing Orton is stupid, no matter how you try to defend it.

Orton got benched his senior year at Purdue?

[Dzone]

I swear if I hear Studesville say one more time that Orton gives us the best chance at victory, Im going to puke. If you arent going to start Tebow, then put Quinn in. I saw Quinn look horrible for Cleveland, but still, he cant be worse than Orton...Orton has clearly lost his mojo. He couldnt start for Purdue the way he p,lays

[cuzz4169]

Tebow will not play till the last 2 home games. No doubt about it.

[BORDERLINE]

could it be that the front office is really gonna let him sit the rest of the year.

Studs is not running the show here. Bowlen and Ellis tell him who they want starting

i don't know what's wrong with these people.

[red98]

Naw, I would say it like this....below average until the game is out of reach and then awesomeness in garbage time. Or slightly mediocre while the game is close, but then horrible when the Broncos have a chance to win or tie.

But obviously the best chance for the Broncos to win...obviously. Once he breaks out of his slump. Because the Broncos were winning before he slumped and was playing at
a "pro bowl level". Obviously.

I am really enjoying the subtle sarcasm Mike. Please keep it going!

[vandammage13]

Organization - Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win

Fans - NO! PLAY CHRIS SIMMS!!!

That's all you need to know before listening to fans!

A 9-18 record with Orton (who supposedly gives us the best chance to win)...that's all you need to know before listening to the Organization.

[Juriga72]

Orton got benched his senior year Purdue?

After he broke his leg.

[vandammage13]

Naw, I would say it like this....below average until the game is out of reach and then awesomeness in garbage time. Or slightly mediocre while the game is close, but then horrible when the Broncos have a chance to win or tie.

But obviously the best chance for the Broncos to win...obviously. Once he breaks out of his slump. Because the Broncos were winning before he slumped and was playing at
a "pro bowl level". Obviously.

Finally someone who gets it...
People who say Orton was having a good year until the last 2 or 3 weeks are blind to the fact that his "awesome stats" only came after we were down 14+ points every game. (Reference the Rams game for a perfect example)

He looks awesome on the stat sheet, but crappy if you actually watch the game.

He's pretty much sucked overall for nearly every game this year, not just the last few weeks.

[spikerman]

I'll take the Broncos and 59 points.

I'd still take the Raiders.

[PAINTERDAVE]

reading between the lines: tebow is either very raw, or very bad.

Disagree.

[TXBRONC]

I'd still take the Raiders.

I wonder if Hochuli and his crew will be working our game on Sunday?

[spikerman]

I wonder if Hochuli and his crew will be working our game on Sunday?

He's worth the price of admission alone. The Black Hole fears Ed Hochuli.

[TXBRONC]

He's worth the price of admission alone. The Black Hole fears Ed Hochuli.

He's the best in the buisness.

[Dzone]

Anyone see the Jerry Jones interview last night on 60 Minutes????
"Statistics are for LOSERS"~Jerry Jones

[BigSarge87]

Not to mention letting Orton continue to slide on the field KILLS any trade value he might have had. If they would have pulled him after the KC game, we could have marketed him much better. IMO.

[BroncoStud]

It's quite depressing.

[JaxBroncoGirl]

If you keep running out in the street and getting hit by a car, then maybe you should not run out into the street. I have no idea as to why the current Broncos organization would not try Tebow or Quinn at this point. It cannot get any worse.

Most organizations (business) in America practices this type of mindset. That is why we have many business not doing so well. Maybe the Peter Principle works well for the Broncos. Maybe they are scared of thinking outside the box. Whatever it is, it is not working. Management too scared to take a chance even when they know this is only for four games. Management not taking the responsibility for their actions because they can always blame McDaniels. Studsy is too scared to be a head coach.

This team has been doomed and will continue down a very bad path. Sadly, we have a yes man at the HC. He is trying to sell himself to the company store. What a shame. I feel so bad for the players right now. The players do not deserve this. Remember McD said that the players would earn the right to be competitive and earn the right to play. Yeah right, tell that to Quinn and Tebow. They never stood a chance. It was all BS. You cannot tell me that Orton deserves the right to play right now. You cannot tell me between Quinn and Tebow, they cannot play better than Orton right now.

Orton has most likely lost the respect of the team. Sad that the once Greatest Broncos have hit Rock Bottom.

I tell ya, never in my wildest dreams would I see another company being buried in the sand like this. Sure we see companies do the same thing, or at least I have. Never seen anything like this in my college or NFL experience.

[JDL]

Fans wouldn't scream for another QB if the starter was a keeper. Orton got booed in Chicago, he's getting booed in Denver. Seems like a strange coincidence. He also got benched at Purdue and his draft stock plummetted.

Last year Denver was trying to make the playoffs, now Denver should be evaluating their roster. Playing Orton is stupid, no matter how you try to defend it.

Yeah, but the fans will always scream for change before thinking about what it might do for the future. Bench Orton then start Tebow... THEN WHAT come 2011??? Most likely full blown QB controversy with all the @sshats saying we should have drafted another rookie QB... great what does that do... you benched your VET QB who played incredible for most of the season amongst a bunch of scrubs and so now you've blown 2011 and don't have anyone. Instead, the coaching staff and franchise may just very well be thinking about 2011 and not total wasting the season. It's be so much smarter to have Orton ready to go, if Tebow outplays him in preseason all the better he is ready, but if he's not you don't have a QB totally disillusioned and lacking in confidence because the organization has shown him no loyalty or faith. Instead... we mix in Tebow here and there and maybe start him the finale and you have Orton (who will make a ton next year) ready to go mentally, if Tebow isn't ready... and we don't totally blow the 2011 season... and if Tebow doesn't show enough in some limited series geared specifically for him and some game action, maybe combined with what they see in practice they do draft a QB, and Orton is ready to carry the load for 2011 season.

Orton is upgradeable, BUT he is a VERY valuable player and important piece of Denver's future regardless of whether it is a rookie QB or Tebow going into just his 2nd year in a pro-style offense where he may very well and probably won't be ready. This team is not 3-10 because of Orton... any fan who thinks so should be committed... and only proves how idiotic most fans get about this stuff acting like they know what's best. JUST LIKE SIMMS. There are a lot people who question still .. benching Plummer for Cutler.... he probably wasn't ready.. and it didn't help Cutler develop into a winning QB. Incredible short-sighted analysis going on here by fans who simply don't think things through.

[Dirk]

No, it's fans that are tired of a crappy team and are looking for anything that may give it a spark.

Orton WAS playing at a pro bowl level. He is definately in a slide. If he sucks it up again next week and they don't make a QB change it's more of the same for the final 2 games. Maybe they ARE trying to get the best pick possible.

[Juriga72]

Anyone see the Jerry Jones interview last night on 60 Minutes????
"Statistics are for LOSERS"~Jerry Jones

WHICH is why the "Kyle Orton fan club" uses them ad nauseum

[Juriga72]

Orton is upgradeable, BUT he is a VERY valuable player and important piece of Denver's future regardless of whether it is a rookie QB or Tebow going into just his 2nd year in a pro-style offense where he may very well and probably won't be ready. This team is not 3-10 because of Orton... any fan who thinks so should be committed... and only proves how idiotic most fans get about this stuff acting like they know what's best. JUST LIKE SIMMS. There are a lot people who question still .. benching Plummer for Cutler.... he probably wasn't ready.. and it didn't help Cutler develop into a winning QB. Incredible short-sighted analysis going on here by fans who simply don't think things through.

Orton got boo'ed by 60,000 people and replaced LEADING a game. Hmmm sound familiar?

Orton cannot make plays when it counts, unless you count pick sixes, fumbles, and game ending int's...

THEN he's your man

[Lonestar]

Fans wouldn't scream for another QB if the starter was a keeper. Orton got booed in Chicago, he's getting booed in Denver. Seems like a strange coincidence. He also got benched at Purdue and his draft stock plummetted.

Last year Denver was trying to make the playoffs, now Denver should be evaluating their roster. Playing Orton is stupid, no matter how you try to defend it.

Now I can't confirm how many games he played there his senior season, but this does seem strange IF he was benched.
http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/orton_kyle00.html



Kyle Orton
Kyle Orton

Player Profile
Class:
Senior
Hometown:
Altoona, Iowa
High School:
Southeast Polk

Height / Weight:
6-4 / 226
Position:
Quarterback

Career: Purdue career leader with 2.43 interception percentage (23 interceptions in 947 attempts) ... ranks fourth with .581 completion percentage, fifth with 947 passing attempts, fifth with 550 completions, fifth with 6,247 passing yards, fifth with 6,451 yards total offense, seventh with 32 passing touchdowns, 11th with 119.8 passing efficiency and tied for 14th with 23 interceptions ... has three 300-yard passing games (two of them 400-plus) ... third quarterback in school history to start three bowl games, following Mark Herrmann (1978-80) and Drew Brees (1998-2000).

2004: Named 14th-best player in the nation (No. 2 in the Big Ten) by ESPN The Magazine ... preseason third team All-American and No. 3-ranked quarterback in the nation by Phil Steele's behind Matt Leinart (USC) and Jason White (Oklahoma) ... ranked No. 4 by The Sporting News and Street & Smith's ... preseason Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year by Lindy's and The Sporting News ... named Most Fearless Quarterback in Big Ten by The Sporting News ... tabbed Most Accurate Passer, Strongest Arm and Coolest in the Clutch in Big Ten by Lindy's ... selected Best Passing QB in Big Ten by Street & Smith's.

2003: Named to Davey O'Brien Award watch list (nation's outstanding quarterback) ... honorable mention All-Big Ten by coaches and media ... started all 13 games ... completed 251 of 414 passes (60.6 percent) for 2,885 yards with 15 touchdowns and just seven interceptions ... interception percentage of 1.69 set school record ... completions rank fifth on school season list, completion percentage tied for fifth, attempts sixth and yards eighth ... ranked third in Big Ten with 221.9 passing yards per game and fifth with 127.7 passing efficiency ... rushed for 237 yards on 112 carries (including 33 sacks) and three touchdowns ... third in Big Ten and 36th nationally with average of 240.2 yards total offense per game ... seventh on school season list with 3,122 yards total offense ... equaled career high of three touchdown passes vs. Bowling Green on Sept. 6 ... completed 26 of 36 passes (72.2 percent) for 227 yards at Wake Forest on Sept. 13 ... threw three touchdown passes, including career-long 81-yarder to John Standeford, vs. Arizona on Sept. 20 ... completed 38 of 55 passes (69.1 percent) for season-high 411 yards and one touchdown at Wisconsin on Oct. 18 ... completed first 15 passes in that game ... named Big Ten Offensive Player of the Week for his effort ... 38 completions equaled career high and rank tied for fifth on school game list ... came up with career-long 23-yard rush at Michigan on Oct. 25 ... scored first career rushing touchdown vs. Northwestern on Nov. 1 ... passed for 239 yards and rushed for career-high 53 yards at Ohio State on Nov. 15 ... completed 20 of 34 passes for 230 yards and a touchdown while tying school bowl record with two rushing touchdowns vs. Georgia in Capital One Bowl on Jan. 1 ... suffered dislocated left thumb, sprained toe and cracked rib in that game prompting head coach Joe Tiller to say it was "one of the two truly courageous performances I've seen in all my years of coaching."

last few games of the year.

Purdue-Kyle Orton 16-30-0-287; Brandon Kirsch 1-2-0-47.

Purdue-Kyle Orton 23-26-0-329;

PASSING: Purdue-Kyle Orton 35-50-0-366. Illinois-Beutjer,Jon 22-37-0-215.

PASSING: Purdue-Kyle Orton 24-35-2-275. Penn State-Mills, Zack
29-49-0-293; TEAM 0-1-0-0; Morelli, A. 0-1-0-0.

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2004-2005/teamstat.html

Those were the last 4 games of the season..

To me they look like decent games..But then what do I know.

Just a little truth in postiing.:salute:

[nevcraw]

Yeah, but the fans will always scream for change before thinking about what it might do for the future. Bench Orton then start Tebow... THEN WHAT come 2011??? Most likely full blown QB controversy with all the @sshats saying we should have drafted another rookie QB... great what does that do... you benched your VET QB who played incredible for most of the season amongst a bunch of scrubs and so now you've blown 2011 and don't have anyone. Instead, the coaching staff and franchise may just very well be thinking about 2011 and not total wasting the season. It's be so much smarter to have Orton ready to go, if Tebow outplays him in preseason all the better he is ready, but if he's not you don't have a QB totally disillusioned and lacking in confidence because the organization has shown him no loyalty or faith. Instead... we mix in Tebow here and there and maybe start him the finale and you have Orton (who will make a ton next year) ready to go mentally, if Tebow isn't ready... and we don't totally blow the 2011 season... and if Tebow doesn't show enough in some limited series geared specifically for him and some game action, maybe combined with what they see in practice they do draft a QB, and Orton is ready to carry the load for 2011 season.

Orton is upgradeable, BUT he is a VERY valuable player and important piece of Denver's future regardless of whether it is a rookie QB or Tebow going into just his 2nd year in a pro-style offense where he may very well and probably won't be ready. This team is not 3-10 because of Orton... any fan who thinks so should be committed... and only proves how idiotic most fans get about this stuff acting like they know what's best. JUST LIKE SIMMS. There are a lot people who question still .. benching Plummer for Cutler.... he probably wasn't ready.. and it didn't help Cutler develop into a winning QB. Incredible short-sighted analysis going on here by fans who simply don't think things through.

you have got to be joking, right??

I'm sorry but I wouldn't worry about qb contraversy on team coming off a 3 win season.. all jobs on a team this bad should be up for grabs.
Let's just say in an effort to stay respectful ----your definition of incrdedible is quite different than mine..

[hotcarl]

this thread is now about comfortable socks: post your socks

shove off OP

[MileHiWildcat]

reading between the lines: tebow is either very raw, or very bad.

Actually it tells me that Studs is a as far from being a competent NFL coach as I am from being Mr. Universe. The entire Broncos organization is an absolute joke. Bowlen better fire them all.

[MileHiWildcat]

No, it's fans that are tired of a crappy team and are looking for anything that may give it a spark.

Orton WAS playing at a pro bowl level. He is definately in a slide. If he sucks it up again next week and they don't make a QB change it's more of the same for the final 2 games. Maybe they ARE trying to get the best pick possible.

Yeah - the "Pro Bowl" level where you cannot throw any TDs. Give me a break. Orton is a poor man's Ryan leaf.

[MileHiWildcat]

Name ONE NFL team that would pick up Orton for anything more than an emergency backup.

[MileHiWildcat]

One is led to think that if Tebow was looking great in practice that the coaches would be chomping at the bit to get him onto the field. They dont seem to be in any hurry to play him, which may or may not mean that Tebow looks awful in practice...
Im a Tebow fan, but cant understand why he cant replace a terrible quarterback like Orton...I mean, Orton is right now playing as bad as any other QB in the league...maybe the guy in GB and Brody Croyle are worse, but that aint saying much...He clearly got outplayed yesterday by a rookie from a division3 school...Yet, Tebow remains on the bench...scratching my head

The "coaches" don't know their heads from their butts. Note the stellar team record.

[BroncoStud]

Yeah, but the fans will always scream for change before thinking about what it might do for the future. Bench Orton then start Tebow... THEN WHAT come 2011??? Most likely full blown QB controversy with all the @sshats saying we should have drafted another rookie QB... great what does that do... you benched your VET QB who played incredible for most of the season amongst a bunch of scrubs and so now you've blown 2011 and don't have anyone. Instead, the coaching staff and franchise may just very well be thinking about 2011 and not total wasting the season. It's be so much smarter to have Orton ready to go, if Tebow outplays him in preseason all the better he is ready, but if he's not you don't have a QB totally disillusioned and lacking in confidence because the organization has shown him no loyalty or faith. Instead... we mix in Tebow here and there and maybe start him the finale and you have Orton (who will make a ton next year) ready to go mentally, if Tebow isn't ready... and we don't totally blow the 2011 season... and if Tebow doesn't show enough in some limited series geared specifically for him and some game action, maybe combined with what they see in practice they do draft a QB, and Orton is ready to carry the load for 2011 season.

Orton is upgradeable, BUT he is a VERY valuable player and important piece of Denver's future regardless of whether it is a rookie QB or Tebow going into just his 2nd year in a pro-style offense where he may very well and probably won't be ready. This team is not 3-10 because of Orton... any fan who thinks so should be committed... and only proves how idiotic most fans get about this stuff acting like they know what's best. JUST LIKE SIMMS. There are a lot people who question still .. benching Plummer for Cutler.... he probably wasn't ready.. and it didn't help Cutler develop into a winning QB. Incredible short-sighted analysis going on here by fans who simply don't think things through.

I respectfully disagree with a lot of this.

First of all, I'm a BIG Plummer fan. Loved him at ASU, then Arizona, and was happy to land him in Denver, seemed like a natural match. That said, Cutler was inserted and the offense instantly got better. It was more productive, it committed about the same amount of turnovers, and our scoring went up. Jake looked like he was unhappy and wanted out, and putting Cutler in wasn't a the reason Denver missed the playoffs, the defense falling apart was.

As far as Orton being a "valuable part of the Denver organization..." - WHATEVER. He's a stopgap QB, a career backup, and a player that CANNOT convert on 3rd down, and CANNOT consistently score points for his team. Sorry, but in the NFL, 3rd down makes or breaks careers, and it has broken Orton. He simply sucks on conversion downs.

Call us "short-sided" or whatever, Orton 9-18 in his last 27 games. His lack of converting is a BIG part of those losses. His performance LOST Denver the KC and the Arizona games, back to back. There is NO justifiable reason to keep him in the lineup. His confidence is gone, his arm is dead, and he is as laughably predictable after the midway point of the past 2 seasons.

There is a BIG difference in this year and last. Last year Denver was trying to win a playoff spot into week 17, this year Denver is eliminated by week 13. Now is the time to evaluate talent not pad stats or worry about hurting Orton's little feelings. Kyle is getting paid a LOT of money to run this offense into the ground, money he doesn't deserve.

No offense, but even attempting to justify keeping Orton in the game in favor or Quinn or Tebow is just nonsense.

[I Eat Staples]

I think this is more indicative of the coaching staff/front office feeling Tebow just can't play yet than it is of them thinking Orton is a great QB or anything.

[Lonestar]

I respectfully disagree with a lot of this.

First of all, I'm a BIG Plummer fan. Loved him at ASU, then Arizona, and was happy to land him in Denver, seemed like a natural match. That said, Cutler was inserted and the offense instantly got better. It was more productive, it committed about the same amount of turnovers, and our scoring went up. Jake looked like he was unhappy and wanted out, and putting Cutler in wasn't a the reason Denver missed the playoffs, the defense falling apart was.

As far as Orton being a "valuable part of the Denver organization..." - WHATEVER. He's a stopgap QB, a career backup, and a player that CANNOT convert on 3rd down, and CANNOT consistently score points for his team. Sorry, but in the NFL, 3rd down makes or breaks careers, and it has broken Orton. He simply sucks on conversion downs.

Call us "short-sided" or whatever, Cutler is 9-18 in his last 27 games. His lack of converting is a BIG part of those losses. His performance LOST Denver the KC and the Arizona games, back to back. There is NO justifiable reason to keep him in the lineup. His confidence is gone, his arm is dead, and he is as laughably predictable after the midway point of the past 2 seasons.

There is a BIG difference in this year and last. Last year Denver was trying to win a playoff spot into week 17, this year Denver is eliminated by week 13. Now is the time to evaluate talent not pad stats or worry about hurting Orton's little feelings. Kyle is getting paid a LOT of money to run this offense into the ground, money he doesn't deserve.

No offense, but even attempting to justify keeping Orton in the game in favor or Quinn or Tebow is just nonsense.
Think you meant to say Orton.

[MileHiWildcat]

I think this is more indicative of the coaching staff/front office feeling Tebow just can't play yet than it is of them thinking Orton is a great QB or anything.

Would that be the current crack staff/front office that cannot win football games ?

[JaxBroncoGirl]

I think this is more indicative of the coaching staff/front office feeling Tebow just can't play yet than it is of them thinking Orton is a great QB or anything.

Of course you would say that, you have been saying that all year. All the backup QB can do better than what Orton has done the last 4 games. You do not have a leg to stand on. Just give Quinn or Tebow a chance and you will see.

You have thrown Tebow under the bus all year long. Well let me tell ya, look at your boy Orton, his team is now stepping up to the plate making comments on how they would like to play with Tebow.

Orton will make a great backup QB, not a starter. Now that the dust has bearly settled, you have several players NOT backing the Orton QB as much as you would like to believe.

[JaxBroncoGirl]

I think this is more indicative of the coaching staff/front office feeling Tebow just can't play yet than it is of them thinking Orton is a great QB or anything.

One more thing, Orton has been lost on the field lately. Not only can he not move out of the pocket, he cannot hit his targets.

You do realize his team has lost all faith in him. You do realize the Broncos most likely will play Orton against the big, bad and mean Raiders. Once the Broncos play at home, it will be different and if it is not, then trade Tebow to a team with real coaches.

You have been on the Orton train long enough all the while have slammed Tebow. Look where it has gotten us. NOTHING! Orton no longer has MCD. and looks to me he has lost what MOJO head had.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Yeah, but the fans will always scream for change before thinking about what it might do for the future. Bench Orton then start Tebow... THEN WHAT come 2011??? Most likely full blown QB controversy with all the @sshats saying we should have drafted another rookie QB... great what does that do... you benched your VET QB who played incredible for most of the season amongst a bunch of scrubs and so now you've blown 2011 and don't have anyone. Instead, the coaching staff and franchise may just very well be thinking about 2011 and not total wasting the season. It's be so much smarter to have Orton ready to go, if Tebow outplays him in preseason all the better he is ready, but if he's not you don't have a QB totally disillusioned and lacking in confidence because the organization has shown him no loyalty or faith. Instead... we mix in Tebow here and there and maybe start him the finale and you have Orton (who will make a ton next year) ready to go mentally, if Tebow isn't ready... and we don't totally blow the 2011 season... and if Tebow doesn't show enough in some limited series geared specifically for him and some game action, maybe combined with what they see in practice they do draft a QB, and Orton is ready to carry the load for 2011 season.

Orton is upgradeable, BUT he is a VERY valuable player and important piece of Denver's future regardless of whether it is a rookie QB or Tebow going into just his 2nd year in a pro-style offense where he may very well and probably won't be ready. This team is not 3-10 because of Orton... any fan who thinks so should be committed... and only proves how idiotic most fans get about this stuff acting like they know what's best. JUST LIKE SIMMS. There are a lot people who question still .. benching Plummer for Cutler.... he probably wasn't ready.. and it didn't help Cutler develop into a winning QB. Incredible short-sighted analysis going on here by fans who simply don't think things through.

3 - 10

just sayin '...

[cardoso]

Oh gosh i just threw up in my mouth. What a disaster! UN believable how far we have fallen!

ALL WE NEEDED WAS TO FIX THE DAMN DEFENSE AND LOOK WHAT YOUR IDIOT ASS CREATED!!!!!!

No one on this coaching staff could find their ass with both hands so i wouldn't expect them to know what it takes to win a game. I wish we'd just mail it and just give the next 3 teams a win and the broncos could just stay home and get ready for next year. I have never been so disgusted in watching the Broncos play. If orton gives us the best chance to win, then damn it WE SUCK! orton has NEVER given an nfl team the best chance to win. There's a reason why he was ran out of chicago by thier fans and there's a reason why Chicago was so willing to give up the farm and the owner's daughter to get rid of orton. There's going to be ALOT OF EMPTY SEATS the last two home games if orton is starting and those are going to be very sad depressing pictures at invesco field.

[cardoso]

Yeah, but the fans will always scream for change before thinking about what it might do for the future. Bench Orton then start Tebow... THEN WHAT come 2011??? Most likely full blown QB controversy with all the @sshats saying we should have drafted another rookie QB... great what does that do... you benched your VET QB who played incredible for most of the season amongst a bunch of scrubs and so now you've blown 2011 and don't have anyone. Instead, the coaching staff and franchise may just very well be thinking about 2011 and not total wasting the season. It's be so much smarter to have Orton ready to go, if Tebow outplays him in preseason all the better he is ready, but if he's not you don't have a QB totally disillusioned and lacking in confidence because the organization has shown him no loyalty or faith. Instead... we mix in Tebow here and there and maybe start him the finale and you have Orton (who will make a ton next year) ready to go mentally, if Tebow isn't ready... and we don't totally blow the 2011 season... and if Tebow doesn't show enough in some limited series geared specifically for him and some game action, maybe combined with what they see in practice they do draft a QB, and Orton is ready to carry the load for 2011 season.

Orton is upgradeable, BUT he is a VERY valuable player and important piece of Denver's future regardless of whether it is a rookie QB or Tebow going into just his 2nd year in a pro-style offense where he may very well and probably won't be ready. This team is not 3-10 because of Orton... any fan who thinks so should be committed... and only proves how idiotic most fans get about this stuff acting like they know what's best. JUST LIKE SIMMS. There are a lot people who question still .. benching Plummer for Cutler.... he probably wasn't ready.. and it didn't help Cutler develop into a winning QB. Incredible short-sighted analysis going on here by fans who simply don't think things through.

you are wrong in so many ways. i'll just hit one point. you said the team is not 3-10 because of orton?? ok well....

the last two games are 100% on orton!!

vs. jacksonville last drive of game to tie.....Orton throws a pick
vs indy...Down by 7 inside the 15 late in the game we go for it on 4th down only to have orton throw a pass to an open gaffney in the dirt...game over
vs jets...cant handle snap refuses to fall on it tries to pick it up (like he can actually run) and losses ball......game over
vs 49ers.....last drive to tie game oton throws a pic....game over


those are 6 games with plays orton directly responsible for that have costs us games.

now should we talk about the numerous wide open wr's like when he missed gaffney wide open in endzone and threw it to him 5 yds out of bounce?

Should we talk about how we were in san diego driving getting ready to go up 10-0 or 14-0 only to have orton throw an interception and have sd score and tie the game?

Should we talk about orton's inability to make any play what so ever with his feet?

Should we talk about his 3 interceptions last week to a horrible defense arizona team?

Should we go back to last year and talk about the 2 perfect passes he threw to the chiefs linebacker for td's.......for the other team in a must win game to possibly go to playoffs???



better yet why don't you talk about the games orton has carried the broncos to victory??

[SmilinAssasSin27]

you are wrong in so many ways. i'll just hit one point. you said the team is not 3-10 because of orton?? ok well....

the last two games are 100% on orton!!

vs. jacksonville last drive of game to tie.....Orton throws a pick
vs indy...Down by 7 inside the 15 late in the game we go for it on 4th down only to have orton throw a pass to an open gaffney in the dirt...game over
vs jets...cant handle snap refuses to fall on it tries to pick it up (like he can actually run) and losses ball......game over
vs 49ers.....last drive to tie game oton throws a pic....game over


those are 6 games with plays orton directly responsible for that have costs us games.

now should we talk about the numerous wide open wr's like when he missed gaffney wide open in endzone and threw it to him 5 yds out of bounce?

Should we talk about how we were in san diego driving getting ready to go up 10-0 or 14-0 only to have orton throw an interception and have sd score and tie the game?

Should we talk about orton's inability to make any play what so ever with his feet?

Should we talk about his 3 interceptions last week to a horrible defense arizona team?

Should we go back to last year and talk about the 2 perfect passes he threw to the chiefs linebacker for td's.......for the other team in a must win game to possibly go to playoffs???



better yet why don't you talk about the games orton has carried the broncos to victory??

last time i checked the whole team sucked. Orton didn't PI/Facemask the Jets WR at the 2. He also didn't let Indy score at will in the first half. He did get us a fairly late lead vs SF, but he didn't blow it defensively. He also didn't allow Jax to go up and down the field on is in the 2nd half.

Hate all ya want. This season isn't his fault. He's played poorly in spots, but there is plenty of blame to go around.

[cardoso]

last time i checked the whole team sucked. Orton didn't PI/Facemask the Jets WR at the 2. He also didn't let Indy score at will in the first half. He did get us a fairly late lead vs SF, but he didn't blow it defensively. He also didn't allow Jax to go up and down the field on is in the 2nd half.

Hate all ya want. This season isn't his fault. He's played poorly in spots, but there is plenty of blame to go around.

everyone wants to blame everyone except orton. At first it was our "horrible" defense for our losing. And now the last two games our defense has been great only to have orton lead our offense to 3 and out disasters after disasters. or if not a 3 in out a stupid interception. Qb's are supposed to make plays when you most need them! Orton DOES NOT DO THAT! When we needed orton the most he has failed! The team was in position to tie or win in each of examples i gave only to have ORTON FAIL. Make excuses all you want but when it has come down to orton to win a game for us HE HAS FAILED!!

[SmilinAssasSin27]

everyone wants to blame everyone except orton. At first it was our "horrible" defense for our losing. And now the last two games our defense has been great only to have orton lead our offense to 3 and out disasters after disasters. or if not a 3 in out a stupid interception. Qb's are supposed to make plays when you most need them! Orton DOES NOT DO THAT! When we needed orton the most he has failed! The team was in position to tie or win in each of examples i gave only to have ORTON FAIL. Make excuses all you want but when it has come down to orton to win a game for us HE HAS FAILED!!

No...I feel that some ONLY want to blame Orton, when there is plenty to go around. Like you for example. I'm guessing you never liked him and resented the fact that he's a Bronco from day 1 so everything is his fault. But i digress...

Orton clearly deserves some of the blame. No doubt. But again, TEAM sport. 75% of the QBs in the league wouldn't have won this year in Denver. We had absolutely NO running game for 9 weeks. NONE. Our OLine is 3/5 rookies. We have no TE who can catch. And yet Orton still put up incredible numbers for 11 weeks. But at least he had those big time receivers like...ummm...errr. Our secondary is elderly and oft-injured. Our starting OLBs have played a total of 6 games this year. We have a make shift DLine. And yet we were in most games we played until coachy got shitcanned. Face it dude, this isn't Orton's problem. Until the past 2 weeks, I actually think he's handled this roster pretty damn well. I agree he's likely given up at this point. However, even the most closeminded, like yourself, need to look at the sum of the parts.

I'm a believer that all coaches should get 3 to 4 years to get their system going, even McD. But hindsight is 20/20 and that's the dude who should get a lot more of the blame than Orton.

[cardoso]

No...I feel that some ONLY want to blame Orton, when there is plenty to go around. Like you for example. I'm guessing you never liked him and resented the fact that he's a Bronco from day 1 so everything is his fault. But i digress...

Orton clearly deserves some of the blame. No doubt. But again, TEAM sport. 75% of the QBs in the league wouldn't have won this year in Denver. We had absolutely NO running game for 9 weeks. NONE. Our OLine is 3/5 rookies. We have no TE who can catch. And yet Orton still put up incredible numbers for 11 weeks. But at least he had those big time receivers like...ummm...errr. Our secondary is elderly and oft-injured. Our starting OLBs have played a total of 6 games this year. We have a make shift DLine. And yet we were in most games we played until coachy got shitcanned. Face it dude, this isn't Orton's problem. Until the past 2 weeks, I actually think he's handled this roster pretty damn well. I agree he's likely given up at this point. However, even the most closeminded, like yourself, need to look at the sum of the parts.

I'm a believer that all coaches should get 3 to 4 years to get their system going, even McD. But hindsight is 20/20 and that's the dude who should get a lot more of the blame than Orton.

jacksonville, sf, jets game all ended on a kyle orton turnovers

Who's fault is that?

who gets the blame for Orton's horrible passes? For example gaffney running wide open to the endzone vs KC only to have orton throw it 5 yds out of bounce? Who gets the blame on that?

Who gets the blame for orton's embarrasig play yesterday? Who's fault it was it that orton threw 3 picks straight into the defenders arm? Shit one pass was 5 yds over the nearest wr and fell right into the safetys lap. Who's responsible for all this?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

jacksonville, sf, jets game all ended on a kyle orton turnovers

Who's fault is that?

who gets the blame for Orton's horrible passes? For example gaffney running wide open to the endzone vs KC only to have orton throw it 5 yds out of bounce? Who gets the blame on that?

Who gets the blame for orton's embarrasig play yesterday? Who's fault it was it that orton threw 3 picks straight into the defenders arm? Shit one pass was 5 yds over the nearest wr and fell right into the safetys lap. Who's responsible for all this?

again, your closemindedness and inability to comprehend basic sentences is incredible. I never said he didn't deserve some blame. But again, you choose to blame ONLY him. And only BLAME him. You refuse to give him any due credit.

Here is a quote I pulled from someone on another site during a Jay/Kyle discussion.

Let me give you some blind QB comparisons.
Here are season stats through 13 weeks, this season as long McDaniels was coaching:

Quarterback A: 2653 yards 17 TDs 10 Ints 1 Fumble Lost
Quarterback B: 2545 yards 17 TDs 10 Ints 5 Fumbles Lost

On paper these two seem to be 2 above average quarterbacks that are a little prone to turning the ball over. One of these is a rookie QB (Sam Bradford) so thats understandable. The more turnover prone QB (Quarterback B) is Jay Cutler.

Let's take a look at two more.

Quarterback A: 3243 yards 23 TDs 9 Ints 1 Fumble Lost
Quarterback B: 3486 yards 20 TDs 6 Ints 3 Fumbles Lost

Here are two elite QBs with great TD/TO ratios and extremely high yardage (on pace to finish with over 1000 more yards than Jay Cutler!). Who are they? Quarterback A is Aaron Rogers and Quarterback B is your very own Kyle Orton.

Thru week 9, Orton had better stats than the guy many feel is the best young QB in the league (along w/ Ryan). But yer on the ball here...he can't do anything right.

[cardoso]

again, your closemindedness and inability to comprehend basic sentences is incredible. I never said he didn't deserve some blame. But again, you choose to blame ONLY him. And only BLAME him. You refuse to give him any due credit.

Here is a quote I pulled from someone on another site during a Jay/Kyle discussion.

Let me give you some blind QB comparisons.
Here are season stats through 13 weeks, this season as long McDaniels was coaching:

Quarterback A: 2653 yards 17 TDs 10 Ints 1 Fumble Lost
Quarterback B: 2545 yards 17 TDs 10 Ints 5 Fumbles Lost

On paper these two seem to be 2 above average quarterbacks that are a little prone to turning the ball over. One of these is a rookie QB (Sam Bradford) so thats understandable. The more turnover prone QB (Quarterback B) is Jay Cutler.

Let's take a look at two more.

Quarterback A: 3243 yards 23 TDs 9 Ints 1 Fumble Lost
Quarterback B: 3486 yards 20 TDs 6 Ints 3 Fumbles Lost

Here are two elite QBs with great TD/TO ratios and extremely high yardage (on pace to finish with over 1000 more yards than Jay Cutler!). Who are they? Quarterback A is Aaron Rogers and Quarterback B is your very own Kyle Orton.

Thru week 9, Orton had better stats than the guy many feel is the best young QB in the league (along w/ Ryan). But yer on the ball here...he can't do anything right.

nope! the fact is all i'm asking you is who deserves the blame for situations i asked you about and all you can provide is some stupid pointless stats? let me guess you are mr fantasy geeks that thinks he knows football because he goes to espn and looks at meaningless stats??

Go ahead and quote me where i said orton is 100% responsible for our losses...I'll be wating..

I've provided you with questions about PLAYS ORTON HAS MADE and have asked you who deserves the blame for them. You're yet to mustard up the courage to say orton is directly responsible for those game ending and game changing plays. Keep your meaningless stats THEY MEAN NOTHING!

[Northman]

nope! the fact is all i'm asking you is who deserves the blame for situations i asked you about and all you can provide is some stupid pointless stats? let me guess you are mr fantasy geeks that thinks he knows football because he goes to espn and looks at meaningless stats??

Go ahead and quote me where i said orton is 100% responsible for our losses...I'll be wating..

I've provided you with questions about PLAYS ORTON HAS MADE and have asked you who deserves the blame for them. You're yet to mustard up the courage to say orton is directly responsible for those game ending and game changing plays. Keep your meaningless stats THEY MEAN NOTHING!



Frankly, i personally dont care what situations Orton has been bad in. Every Qb goes through them even the mighty Peyton Manning. At the end of the day this team has bigger problems than just Orton. Its kind of pointless to try and get into a pissing match over something that has more to do with than just one guy. I mean seriously.

[sneakers]

Organization - Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win

Fans - NO! PLAY CHRIS SIMMS!!!


That's all you need to know before listening to fans!

Hhzahahhahahhaaha True~!

[cardoso]

Thru week 9, Orton had better stats than the guy many feel is the best young QB in the league (along w/ Ryan). But yer on the ball here...he can't do anything right.

This here folks is the shameless acts of Orton supporters. You need to watch more games and stay off your espn fantasy app along with that person who made this comparison because you are just as guilty as he is for using these retarded ass stats. These stupid meaningless stats MEAN NOTHING! to anyone who knows anything about football. You keep talking about "stats" while the rest of us talk about orton's constant chocking when the team needs him most.

Let see if you can muster this.

Which player is most directly responsible for the broncos last two losses?

[cardoso]

Frankly, i personally dont care what situations Orton has been bad in. Every Qb goes through them even the mighty Peyton Manning. At the end of the day this team has bigger problems than just Orton. Its kind of pointless to try and get into a pissing match over something that has more to do with than just one guy. I mean seriously.

yup every qb does have them.

now can you tell us in what game in the last 2 years orton has carried this team to a win?

because i list at least 5 where he couldn't carry us to a win.

This has EVERYTHING to do with Orton. QB'S WIN GAMES FOR YOU!

We were in a position to tie or win the game 5 different times this year and each time Orton, not the team was directly responsible for lossing those games.

It doesn't matter what happens all game! All you want is a chance to win the game at the end and we've had that 5 different times this year and each time failed! Not failed because of the defense or the coach! Failed because our QB couldn't make a play and no throwing game ending interceptions doesn't count as making a play.

[Northman]

now can you tell us in what game in the last 2 years orton has carried this team to a win?

Define carry? Last year he had great game winning drives vs NE and Dall when it mattered which is what you were getting at right?


because i list at least 5 where he couldn't carry us to a win.

I can list 2 games the last two weeks where Manning didnt carry his team.


This has EVERYTHING to do with Orton. QB'S WIN GAMES FOR YOU!

Tell the Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers that. The last two weeks it was the defense for each team that gave them wins.


We were in a position to tie or win the game 5 different times this year and each time Orton, not the team was directly responsible for lossing those games.

I know in the Jets game its not Orton hiking himself the ball where it hits him in the shin. Bad snaps are not on the QB dude.


It doesn't matter what happens all game! All you want is a chance to win the game at the end and we've had that 5 different times this year and each time failed! Not failed because of the defense or the coach! Failed because our QB couldn't make a play and no throwing game ending interceptions doesn't count as making a play.

OMG! CAN YOU BE EVEN MORE DRAMATIC! OMG!

:lol:

Seriously. Go have a beer.

I can list many QB's who have failed in crunchtime and some of them are HOF'rs.

Now, before you start carrying on like im trying to imply that Orton is a HOF dont be silly. Orton is average and we all knew that. But, so was Trent Dilfer and the reason he got a ring was because he had a solid team around him. Denver doesnt have that so really we had/have to make due with what we got. Now, im not sure why your carrying on like a baby here or being so dramatic. But, there was NO Qb on this roster this year that could have won those games for us. Tebow? nope. Quinn? nope. So it is what it is until we find that guy. But even the mighty John Elway needed help with winning a SB and you can bet your ass he didnt have a bottom feeding defense and a lackluster running game.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

nope! the fact is all i'm asking you is who deserves the blame for situations i asked you about and all you can provide is some stupid pointless stats? let me guess you are mr fantasy geeks that thinks he knows football because he goes to espn and looks at meaningless stats??

Go ahead and quote me where i said orton is 100% responsible for our losses...I'll be wating..

I've provided you with questions about PLAYS ORTON HAS MADE and have asked you who deserves the blame for them. You're yet to mustard up the courage to say orton is directly responsible for those game ending and game changing plays. Keep your meaningless stats THEY MEAN NOTHING!

What courage do I need to say Orton has sucked the last 2 games. I clearly said Orton deserves some blame for some of the overall poor showing this year. And again, your inability to read and comprehend basic information gets in the way of your "points" which seem to fit into tiny little boxes. You obviously feel that have made some good points becasue you are now filtering the conversation to your 2 specific examples and have resorted to name calling. For the final time, it's not that Orton doesn't deserve HIS SHARE of the blame. It's just annoying that people like yourself can't take the blinders off long enough to see that the problem lies w/ the big picture...not just 1 man.

As far as the stats are concerned, ummm....last time I checked, that's what gets dudes into the Pro Bowl and Hall of Fame. Usually, when a player accumulates yardage and points, while at the same time being careful with the ball, good things happen. Usually. So yes, stats can be compared. It's not a fantasy thing. That's how the ball moving down the field is quantified. Sure, his last 2 games have been poor. His good play over the past 2 years more than makes up for that in my eyes.

As far as Orton being 100% responsible, it's a 2 way street my friend. Did you make that specific statement? No. Have you given him any credit for anything? No. Have you expresed ANY blame on ANYONE ELSE? Again, no.

[Juriga72]

Lets see about "carrying" a team for the Ortonites.
Points scored in wins:
2009-
12 week 1!!!!!!!
27
23
17
20 OT
26
44

While the defense held them to under 20 points in 7 of 8 games

2010 wins
31
26
49
with the defense holding them under 20 2 out of 3 times


so in 9 of 11 "wins" Kyle has... The defense held the other team to less than 20 points.


Yeah... he's throwing up some awesome STATS there.... like "I win when the defense holds them to few points"

[Dzone]

Vic lombardi and Gary Miller are discussing Tebow on 877. that it is a business decision to hold Tebow back until Dec 26...How no -shows at Invesco can cost a ton of money. Starting Tebow guarantees people show up

[BroncoStud]

Think you meant to say Orton.

You are correct sir, thanks.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

interesting notion...but what would it hurt playing him last week if money is the driving force?

[BroncoStud]

Frankly, i personally dont care what situations Orton has been bad in. Every Qb goes through them even the mighty Peyton Manning. At the end of the day this team has bigger problems than just Orton. Its kind of pointless to try and get into a pissing match over something that has more to do with than just one guy. I mean seriously.

Agree to a point. It isn't all on Orton, not by a long shot. But to compare his slide to Manning's is absurd. Manning carries his team, he keeps them in EVERY game. If you were to switch out Manning and Orton I bet the Colts have more like 3 wins and the Broncos have more like 6-7.

The QB is the key to the engine. Having an average QB hurts us on every possession. Flacco vs Orton, Flacco 100X better this year. Manning vs Orton, Manning 100X better this year, Rivers vs Orton, Rivers 100X better this year... I could go on and on.

Orton has been horrible for several weeks now, the season is over, the Broncos have a lot of money invested in the young guys, make the move. If their only motivation is to pack Invesco next week, SCREW BOWLEN.

[TXBRONC]

last time i checked the whole team sucked. Orton didn't PI/Facemask the Jets WR at the 2. He also didn't let Indy score at will in the first half. He did get us a fairly late lead vs SF, but he didn't blow it defensively. He also didn't allow Jax to go up and down the field on is in the 2nd half.

Hate all ya want. This season isn't his fault. He's played poorly in spots, but there is plenty of blame to go around.

We've had five this year where we could have won it in the end because we had the ball for the last meaningful possession. Two of them ended on a interceptions, one on a fumble, two of them we blew it by turning the ball over on downs.

[Northman]

Agree to a point. It isn't all on Orton, not by a long shot. But to compare his slide to Manning's is absurd.

Its not absurd when you keep in context of what im discussing. My general point being every QB has bad games and bad stretches even the best of them. Ive never claimed that Orton is even in that calibur, only that he is human.


Manning carries his team, he keeps them in EVERY game. If you were to switch out Manning and Orton I bet the Colts have more like 3 wins and the Broncos have more like 6-7.

Agreed.


The QB is the key to the engine. Having an average QB hurts us on every possession. Flacco vs Orton, Flacco 100X better this year. Manning vs Orton, Manning 100X better this year, Rivers vs Orton, Rivers 100X better this year... I could go on and on.

It certainly hurts you when your defense sucks as bad as ours. Watching the Broncos struggle without a running game as well creates problems. Right now i would take any of those defenses that those teams have.


Orton has been horrible for several weeks now, the season is over, the Broncos have a lot of money invested in the young guys, make the move.

Couldnt agree more.

[BroncoStud]

What's probably the biggest surprise to most is the way Orton has folded now that the Denver running game is doing so well. Knoshown averaging 121 yards in the last 2 games...

But it's really what we saw from Orton in Chicago. In a more traditional dropback offense Orton REALLY struggled to make plays.

[vandammage13]

again, your closemindedness and inability to comprehend basic sentences is incredible. I never said he didn't deserve some blame. But again, you choose to blame ONLY him. And only BLAME him. You refuse to give him any due credit.

Here is a quote I pulled from someone on another site during a Jay/Kyle discussion.

Let me give you some blind QB comparisons.
Here are season stats through 13 weeks, this season as long McDaniels was coaching:

Quarterback A: 2653 yards 17 TDs 10 Ints 1 Fumble Lost
Quarterback B: 2545 yards 17 TDs 10 Ints 5 Fumbles Lost

On paper these two seem to be 2 above average quarterbacks that are a little prone to turning the ball over. One of these is a rookie QB (Sam Bradford) so thats understandable. The more turnover prone QB (Quarterback B) is Jay Cutler.

Let's take a look at two more.

Quarterback A: 3243 yards 23 TDs 9 Ints 1 Fumble Lost
Quarterback B: 3486 yards 20 TDs 6 Ints 3 Fumbles Lost

Here are two elite QBs with great TD/TO ratios and extremely high yardage (on pace to finish with over 1000 more yards than Jay Cutler!). Who are they? Quarterback A is Aaron Rogers and Quarterback B is your very own Kyle Orton.

Thru week 9, Orton had better stats than the guy many feel is the best young QB in the league (along w/ Ryan). But yer on the ball here...he can't do anything right.

Lets make another blind comparison....

Quarterback A: 6-7 record
Quarterback B: 9-4 record

Quarterback A is rookie Sam Bradford
Quarterback B is former Bronco Jay Cutler

Lets take a look at two more.....

Quarterback A: 8-5 record
Quarterback B: 3-10 record

Quarterback A is Aaron Rodgers
Quarteback B is you very own Kyle Orton

Stats are for losers

[arapaho2]

reading between the lines: tebow is either very raw, or very bad.


what i read is : tebow doesnt have the mentality or skill in his first season to actually run a nfl offense...and therefor a total waste of a 1st round pick by the former coach when we so desparetly needed defensive help along the front line...and now its haunting us badly

[arapaho2]

Define carry? Last year he had great game winning drives vs NE and Dall when it mattered which is what you were getting at right?



.

you honestly gonna give aways marshalls great highlite reel run after catch against dallas as orton carrying the team to victory..:lol: really?

might as well say orton single handedly led the team to a victory and carried them to a come from behind win against the bengals last year too:lol:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Lets make another blind comparison....



Stats are for losers


A very ironic statement round these parts, given everyone's affection for Cutler.

[Northman]

you honestly gonna give aways marshalls great highlite reel run after catch against dallas as orton carrying the team to victory..:lol: really?

might as well say orton single handedly led the team to a victory and carried them to a come from behind win against the bengals last year too:lol:

Who's taking anything away from Marshall? come on Arapaho your so much better than this. Someone still needs to get the receiver the ball. Again, read my posts in the context of what is being explained. Orton is no HOF ive said this as much and im not even a huge fan of his. But Card was asking for instances where Orton had lead game winning drives and yes that was one of them. Dont pretend to be a moron because we both know you are not one. :tsk:

[Dzone]

2 Famous quotes
"Orton gives us the best chance to win."
"General Custer gives us the best chance to win"

[cardoso]

A very ironic statement round these parts, given everyone's affection for Cutler.

nope! everyone loved cutler because of his WILL TO WIN THE GAME! His intesity, his heart, and how lays it out on the field! When we needed a first down Cutler would scramble and dive towards the marker. Orton on the other hand likes to slide 2yds short of the 1st down. Cutler made plays! Cutler can single handedly win games for us which at times he did! ORTON CAN NEVER DO THAT!

[SmilinAssasSin27]

nope! everyone loved cutler because of his WILL TO WIN THE GAME! His intesity, his heart, and how lays it out on the field! When we needed a first down Cutler would scramble and dive towards the marker. Orton on the other hand likes to slide 2yds short of the 1st down. Cutler made plays! Cutler can single handedly win games for us which at times he did! ORTON CAN NEVER DO THAT!

He also lost them for us...which is what you accuse Orton of doing. Which supports my original point perfectly. The problem is the collective...not any 1 individual.

And I disgaree about the fans. Being on this board for years as well as the Freak...plenty of folks fell in love w/ the video game that was Jay to BM...even though it resulted in nothing when it mattered most.

[rocks]

What I think is this... The offense needs to be adjusted to run a Tebow led offense. Similar to the way an offense run by Vick is different than the one run by Kolb.

The people in charge of the offense don't have the power (or don't know how) to change the offense to suit him so they are being lazy and using Orton. Then again... I'm not sure why Tebow couldn't do the same things Orton is doing by missing screen plays, missing 5 yard crossing patterns and throwing INT's. I'm sure Tebow could do the same...

What makes ZERO sense is why, after these last two games, they aren't even giving Quinn a look. If Tebow is that horrible (which I know he's not based on what players are saying) then at least give SOMEONE else a chance out there.

It literally cannot get worse than the last two weeks. We could stick Brandstater in there (if he was still here) and it would have been that bad.

[cardoso]

He also lost them for us...which is what you accuse Orton of doing. Which supports my original point perfectly. The problem is the collective...not any 1 individual.

And I disgaree about the fans. Being on this board for years as well as the Freak...plenty of folks fell in love w/ the video game that was Jay to BM...even though it resulted in nothing when it mattered most.

sorry cutler to marshall had us 8-8 despite having the worst defense in the nfl, and 6 running backs go on injured reserve. We had a linebacker playing full back.

far cry from our 3-10 record and our 5-17 record over the last 22 games. Cutler had every team preparing for him and marshall yet they still managed to win 8 games with ZERO running game.

People complained the defense was the reason we lost this year....yet the last two games prove otherwise

People complained that we had no running game thats why we lost...yet Moreno's been averaging over 120 yds the last two games and we still lost.

[Juriga72]

Lets make another blind comparison....

Quarterback A: 6-7 record
Quarterback B: 9-4 record

Quarterback A is rookie Sam Bradford
Quarterback B is former Bronco Jay Cutler

Lets take a look at two more.....

Quarterback A: 8-5 record
Quarterback B: 3-10 record

Quarterback A is Aaron Rodgers
Quarteback B is you very own Kyle Orton

Stats are for losers
Here's one....
Quarterback A is ranked 17th in QB rating
Quarterback B is ranked 2nd in QB rating

I mean EVERYONE knows how importnat qb rating is.....right? Oh Quarterback B... Mike Vick who just sat out three years of football in jail

[SmilinAssasSin27]

sorry cutler to marshall had us 8-8 despite having the worst defense in the nfl, and 6 running backs go on injured reserve. We had a linebacker playing full back.

far cry from our 3-10 record and our 5-17 record over the last 22 games. Cutler had every team preparing for him and marshall yet they still managed to win 8 games with ZERO running game.

People complained the defense was the reason we lost this year....yet the last two games prove otherwise

People complained that we had no running game thats why we lost...yet Moreno's been averaging over 120 yds the last two games and we still lost.

you are such a hypocrite. According to you, Orton isn't a good QB cuz the QB is the leader. The guy who gets it done when it matters most. A guy who makes it happen for his team when the game/playoffs are on the line. And you say Orton doesn't do that. But you say Cutler is that guy? Ummm...weren't we 8-4 before we ended up 8-8? Didn't Jay toss INT after INT and fumble games away vs inferior opponents loke Oak and KC? Please stay consistent with your argument. You sound kinda foolish when ya contradict yourself.

[BroncoStud]

Orton is a good QB because he lacks the physical tools, the mental toughness to step up in the crunch, he can't make plays on his own, and he isn't a leader of men.

Orton inspires NOONE, and that is why he is floundering.

[BroncoStud]

Orton is a good QB because he lacks the physical tools, the mental toughness to step up in the crunch, he can't make plays on his own, and he isn't a leader of men.

Orton inspires NOONE, and that is why he is floundering.

[Juriga72]

you are such a hypocrite. According to you, Orton isn't a good QB cuz the QB is the leader. The guy who gets it done when it matters most. A guy who makes it happen for his team when the game/playoffs are on the line. And you say Orton doesn't do that. But you say Cutler is that guy? Ummm...weren't we 8-4 before we ended up 8-8? Didn't Jay toss INT after INT and fumble games away vs inferior opponents loke Oak and KC? Please stay consistent with your argument. You sound kinda foolish when ya contradict yourself.

You mean like how Kyle threw pick six after pick six to lose at home last year to KC???

So tell me.... what is better.

8-8 or 3-9?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

You mean like how Kyle threw pick six after pick six to lose at home last year to KC???

So tell me.... what is better.

8-8 or 3-9?

why bring up a play from 09 and a record from 2010? Interesting how you contort your point to your liking. And my point remains the same. It was never a Orton v Cutty argument. It is an argument as to how Orton gets ALL the blame. It just so happens that Cutty demonstrated the same limitations and he is still worshipped. It's clearly ok to blame the defense and the oft-injured RBs (although they all averaged over 4ypc) in 2008 so that Cutty is let off the hook, but when the whole team has issues in 2010, the QB (this time Orton) is responsible. That is what is mindboggling to me.

My point is that in any team sport, failure is laid at the feet of the collective. Not any 1 man...be it Orton or Cutler. No more. No less.

and that is my last word on the matter. ya either agree or ya don't. At this point we're repeating the same things.

[BroncoStud]

Its not absurd when you keep in context of what im discussing. My general point being every QB has bad games and bad stretches even the best of them. Ive never claimed that Orton is even in that calibur, only that he is human.



Agreed.



It certainly hurts you when your defense sucks as bad as ours. Watching the Broncos struggle without a running game as well creates problems. Right now i would take any of those defenses that those teams have.



Couldnt agree more.


why bring up a play from 09 and a record from 2010? Interesting how you contort your point to your liking. And my point remains the same. It was never a Orton v Cutty argument. It is an argument as to how Orton gets ALL the blame. It just so happens that Cutty demonstrated the same limitations and he is still worshipped. It's clearly ok to blame the defense and the oft-injured RBs (although they all averaged over 4ypc) in 2008 so that Cutty is let off the hook, but when the whole team has issues in 2010, the QB (this time Orton) is responsible. That is what is mindboggling to me.

My point is that in any team sport, failure is laid at the feet of the collective. Not any 1 man...be it Orton or Cutler. No more. No less.

and that is my last word on the matter. ya either agree or ya don't. At this point we're repeating the same things.





Cutler vs Orton

2008 3rd down converison rate: 47.5% (3rd in NFL) - Cutler

2009 3rd down conversion rate: 36.3% (22nd in NFL) - Orton

2010 3rd down conversion rate: 32.4% (29th in NFL) - Orton


Don't compare Orton to Cutler, there is NO comparison. Cutler is and was better than Orton when it matters.

Oh, by the way, for the Orton supporters out there (God only knows why he has them), in 2008 Denver rushed for 1862 yards, in 2009 Denver rushed for 1836 yards. You have 26 fewer rushing yards in 18 games and more than an 11% difference in conversion rates.

[Lonestar]

jacksonville, sf, jets game all ended on a kyle orton turnovers

Who's fault is that?

who gets the blame for Orton's horrible passes? For example gaffney running wide open to the endzone vs KC only to have orton throw it 5 yds out of bounce? Who gets the blame on that?

Who gets the blame for orton's embarrasig play yesterday? Who's fault it was it that orton threw 3 picks straight into the defenders arm? Shit one pass was 5 yds over the nearest wr and fell right into the safetys lap. Who's responsible for all this?


Cutler vs Orton

2008 3rd down converison rate: 47.5% (3rd in NFL) - Cutler

2009 3rd down conversion rate: 36.3% (22nd in NFL) - Orton

2010 3rd down conversion rate: 32.4% (29th in NFL) - Orton


Don't compare Orton to Cutler, there is NO comparison. Cutler is and was better than Orton when it matters.

Oh, by the way, for the Orton supporters out there (God only knows why he has them), in 2008 Denver rushed for 1862 yards, in 2009 Denver rushed for 1836 yards. You have 26 fewer rushing yards in 18 games and more than an 11% difference in conversion rates.

How about their 2nd down conversion rates.

[I Eat Staples]

Orton was more clutch last year than this year. You can credit Marshall for the run after the catch against Dallas but Orton managed the game and in the NE game Orton led us on a game winning drive in OT. The Cincy game was obviously luck.

But yes, Cutler is better than Orton, but Cutler is a very good QB so that's not a knock on Orton.

[cardoso]

Let Orton play! Watch him stink up the joint again in Oakland! And lets see if this organization has any common sense to start tebow at home. I'd hate to see an empty Invesco field the last two games with Orton starting, but if he's starting that's what going to happen and I'm sure there's alot of people that wont even bother watching it on tv like myself. I fought the urge so hard last week to just get out of the house and stop watching orton lead this team to the ground for the 2nd straight week. I stuck it out and watched to the very end. The raider game will be the last game I do that. I will no longer force myself to watch Orton Throw bounce passes to our receivers on 3rd downs anymore.

[Juriga72]

Let Orton play! Watch him stink up the joint again in Oakland! And lets see if this organization has any common sense to start tebow at home. I'd hate to see an empty Invesco field the last two games with Orton starting, but if he's starting that's what going to happen and I'm sure there's alot of people that wont even bother watching it on tv like myself. I fought the urge so hard last week to just get out of the house and stop watching orton lead this team to the ground for the 2nd straight week. I stuck it out and watched to the very end. The raider game will be the last game I do that. I will no longer force myself to watch Orton Throw bounce passes to our receivers on 3rd downs anymore.

Bounce passes cannot be intercepted!!!!

I am just TIVO'ing it... Why bother to get worked up at all watching Kyle fail epically live. I can then go back and see each time he locks onto his first read...stares him down and throws the ball into the ground while he points the "correct" route the reciever should have taken.

As only Kyle Orton can.

[BroncoStud]

How about their 2nd down conversion rates.

That's very hard to locate, I do have the following information...

2010 Denver Broncos - Orton
1st downs: 257 (Tied 13th in NFL / Bengals)
3rd down %: 32.4% (29th in NFL)
Points Per Game: 20.7 (19th in NFL)
Total Yards: 4579 (10th in NFL)
Giveaways: 23 (Tied 15th in NFL)

2009 Denver Broncos - Orton
1st downs: 306 (15th in NFL)
3rd down %: 36.3% (22nd in NFL)
Points Per Game: 20.4 (15th in NFL)
Total Yards: 5463 (15th in NFL)
Giveaways: 23 (9th in NFL)

2008 Denver Broncos - Cutler
1st downs: 354 (Tied 2nd in NFL / Saints)
3rd down %: 47.5% (3rd in NFL)
Points Per Game: 23.1 (16th in NFL)
Total Yards: 6333 (2nd in NFL)
Giveaways: 30 (30th in NFL)

[TXBRONC]

That's very hard to locate, I do have the following information...

2010 Denver Broncos - Orton
1st downs: 257 (Tied 13th in NFL / Bengals)
3rd down %: 32.4% (29th in NFL)
Points Per Game: 20.7 (19th in NFL)
Total Yards: 4579 (10th in NFL)
Giveaways: 23 (Tied 15th in NFL)

2009 Denver Broncos - Orton
1st downs: 306 (15th in NFL)
3rd down %: 36.3% (22nd in NFL)
Points Per Game: 20.4 (15th in NFL)
Total Yards: 5463 (15th in NFL)
Giveaways: 23 (9th in NFL)

2008 Denver Broncos - Cutler
1st downs: 354 (Tied 2nd in NFL / Saints)
3rd down %: 47.5% (3rd in NFL)
Points Per Game: 23.1 (16th in NFL)
Total Yards: 6333 (2nd in NFL)
Giveaways: 30 (30th in NFL)

Amazing even with Orton having a career year his conversion rates on 1st and 3rd down still pales in comparison to Cutler's. The 3rd down conversion rate is one that is really telling because where quarterbacks make their money.

[I Eat Staples]

Bounce passes cannot be intercepted!!!!

I am just TIVO'ing it... Why bother to get worked up at all watching Kyle fail epically live. I can then go back and see each time he locks onto his first read...stares him down and throws the ball into the ground while he points the "correct" route the reciever should have taken.

As only Kyle Orton can.

Peyton Manning has been doing that all year except finding the DB's hands rather than the ground, yet people blame his receivers for that.

[vandammage13]

Peyton Manning has been doing that all year except finding the DB's hands rather than the ground, yet people blame his receivers for that.

He gets a pass because he has proven himself. 4 time MVP, SuperBowl Champ, perrennial Pro Bowler, on pace to break Favre's records...need I go on? If you can't see the difference, then that's on you.

Manning's been having an off few weeks, but he's proven to be one of the best ever because of his body of work.
Orton has never proved or done anything.

[Bosco]

This thread is full of win. I love how our fanbase simply cannot deal with leaving a young QB on the bench for even a full season. Comedy abound.

[spikerman]

This thread is full of win. I love how our fanbase simply cannot deal with leaving a young QB on the bench for even a full season. Comedy abound.

It's not that we can't deal with him on the bench, it's that at this point it serves no purpose; unless the plan is to show him what not to do.

[Northman]

This thread is full of win. I love how our fanbase simply cannot deal with leaving a young QB on the bench for even a full season. Comedy abound.


http://brianorndorf.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ee7b64288330133f3668f61970b-500wi

[TXBRONC]

It's not that we can't deal with him on the bench, it's that at this point it serves no purpose; unless the plan is to show him what not to do.


http://brianorndorf.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ee7b64288330133f3668f61970b-500wi

You and two and Dog should take your comedy act on the road. You all are just to funny today. :lol:

[Bosco]

It's not that we can't deal with him on the bench, it's that at this point it serves no purpose.

Sure it does. Watching you guys froth at the mouth over not being able to unwrap your shiny new toy provides me with enjoyment.

[Dzone]

Studs to be interviewed at 5:15 on 87.7. The interim punching bag.

[BroncoStud]

This thread is full of win. I love how our fanbase simply cannot deal with leaving a young QB on the bench for even a full season. Comedy abound.

Maybe we don't like watching our "starter" lose 2 games in a row while completing 40% of his passes and converting 16% of his 3rd downs for the month...

What's comedy is there are people who are defending keeping Orton in the game.

[spikerman]

Sure it does. Watching you guys froth at the mouth over not being able to unwrap your shiny new toy provides me with enjoyment.

Personally, I don't expect much from Tebow, but right now we're not getting much from Orton. At this point there is very little downside to playing him and who knows, maybe it will provide a spark.

[horsepig]

So, Bosco, what do we have to gain by having him hold a clipboard again? I guess I just missed it.

[Lonestar]

If the playbook was designed for Orton and the wr and tebow has not gotten hardly any reps so far this year what makes anyone think that tebow will do much of anything but run when the first iption maybe two is not open.

Is it win at any cost or bringing a 2+3 project along at the pace that was intended the right thing to do.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[spikerman]

If the playbook was designed for Orton and the wr and tebow has not gotten hardly any reps so far this year what makes anyone think that tebow will do much of anything but run when the first iption maybe two is not open.

Is it win at any cost or bringing a 2+3 project along at the pace that was intended the right thing to do.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

If the playbook is so inflexible that it can't handle a QB with some different skillsets then it's not much of a playbook after all. I don't think any of us expect Tebow to come in and light the world on fire, but can it honestly be ANY worse than what we're seeing now?

It's not about wins and losses. It's about letting him get some game experience and letting the next coaching staff get some film on him to see if he has the skills they're looking for or if they need to look for someone else in the draft. OR, the next braintrust can go into the draft completely unprepared. It's worked well for the Broncos the past two years.

[Lonestar]

If the playbook is so inflexible that it can't handle a QB with some different skillsets then it's not much of a playbook after all. I don't think any of us expect Tebow to come in and light the world on fire, but can it honestly be ANY worse than what we're seeing now?

It's not about wins and losses. It's about letting him get some game experience and letting the next coaching staff get some film on him to see if he has the skills they're looking for or if they need to look for someone else in the draft. OR, the next braintrust can go into the draft completely unprepared. It's worked well for the Broncos the past two years.

If Josh was calling the plays maybe but he got fired.

Mc Coy hell he had a hard time getting them in on time for Orton WHO knows the play book Studs please not even sure if he knows the playbook.

3 weeks to the end of the season is not the time to be drawing upi plays in the sand.


I 'd love to see what the new hotrod has under the hood. I just do not want it broke by rookies that do not know how to drive it.

Does that make sense.

Get him some plays but only what he and the offense already know.

BTW for many it is only about W-L that is all they been talking about all year..

[Medford Bronco]

What's wrong with you guys? Kyle Orton is playing at a pro-bowl level.

Yeah in Madden 2011, not in real life :laugh:

[Medford Bronco]

If the playbook is so inflexible that it can't handle a QB with some different skillsets then it's not much of a playbook after all. I don't think any of us expect Tebow to come in and light the world on fire, but can it honestly be ANY worse than what we're seeing now?

It's not about wins and losses. It's about letting him get some game experience and letting the next coaching staff get some film on him to see if he has the skills they're looking for or if they need to look for someone else in the draft. OR, the next braintrust can go into the draft completely unprepared. It's worked well for the Broncos the past two years.

Why not let him play? 4 losses in a row and 8 of 9 is not bad enough no?

Clueless coaching staff holdovers from McDs staff.

I want a cleaning of the house and start from scratch.

patetic.

Maybe the #1 is not out of reach.

Carolina has a winnable game vs AZ at home and can get to 2 wins and the Bengals can beat Cleveland at home. Maybe that is their goal?

at this point being rudderless, it woudl not matter without a real GM.

[cardoso]

Peyton Manning has been doing that all year except finding the DB's hands rather than the ground, yet people blame his receivers for that.

LMAO because Manning's career and Orton's career are equal :lol:

[cardoso]

This thread is full of win. I love how our fanbase simply cannot deal with leaving a young QB on the bench for even a full season. Comedy abound.

no we just can't deal with orton's horrible performances thats all :salute:

[spikerman]

If Josh was calling the plays maybe but he got fired.

Mc Coy hell he had a hard time getting them in on time for Orton WHO knows the play book Studs please not even sure if he knows the playbook.

3 weeks to the end of the season is not the time to be drawing upi plays in the sand.


I 'd love to see what the new hotrod has under the hood. I just do not want it broke by rookies that do not know how to drive it.

Does that make sense.

Get him some plays but only what he and the offense already know.

BTW for many it is only about W-L that is all they been talking about all year.. I don't think McDaniels' play calling was anything to write home about either. In the past few games after the first drive, he seemed to be out of ideas. If it's a case of Tebow not knowing the playbook then fine, narrow it down. I don't think a reduced playbook necessarily hurts the Broncos. They could only muster 13 points against a horrible Cardinals' defense.

Again, it's not about Tebow being the new hotrod and for me it wasn't only wins and losses (although when it comes down to it that is the name of the game), it's about making the most of a bad situation. Let's see if Tebow can handle himself under live fire.

Surely, even as a McDaniels apologist you must realize that he was not getting the job done and was wrecking/wrecked the franchise. The Broncos are a complete laughingstock now. His win/loss record was enough for him to go, but the devestation he brought secured his fate.