Might The Broncos Intend To Keep Orton And Trade Tebow?

[Cugel]

Here's something that struck me from the Vic Lombardi piece:


Here's what needs to happen this week. Orton needs to be told, "Listen Kyle, thanks for everything you've done. You're a true pro. But we need to see what the kid can do."

Orton won't be happy. So what. The Broncos haven't given the fans much to be happy about all year. What's another disappointed customer?

Question: Every fan would agree with that, most sportswriters and analysts would too. So, why aren't the Broncos doing it? :coffee:

Add in the speculation that Studesville would not dare make that decision without authority from Ellis, Xander & Bowlen and what do we have?

What if they have decided quietly that Tebow isn't the answer and that the new GM should be given a free hand to trade him and use the probable top 5 draft pick to take a new franchise QB?

Then they would not only NEED Orton next season, they would probably need for Orton to be reasonably satisfied.

I'm not saying I'm certain this is the correct solution. I'm just throwing it out for comment as a logical possibility.

#1 -- A rookie QB (or Tebow) would need an experienced QB to start until they're ready. Orton would logically be that guy for at least PART of 2011 as Plummer was until Cutler was ready week 11.

#2 -- If there's NO new CBA negotiated with the players, then there's NO CAP HIT for cutting or trading Tebow (or anyone else). The Broncos could use the chance to get rid of any dead wood contracts they don't want without accelerating the unmet signing bonus against the 2011 cap the way it normally would be.

#3 -- If they have determined that Tebow was a failed Josh McDaniels experiment and that they don't intend to keep him, then you can't take the chance of getting him hurt. Right now he'd probably fetch at least a 3rd round draft pick and maybe somewhat more. He's certainly worth SOMETHING.

#4 -- They obviously know the fans will be livid if Tebow is shipped out without giving him at least a chance to start, so what incentive do they have not to play him? There must be SOME reason! What difference does it make if he's "ready" at this point?

#5 -- Logically, they could conclude that they'll leave it up to the NEXT GM & Coach to decide whether to keep Tebow, and that they DON'T KNOW what they will do with him.

That could be what they meant by "be patient."

#6 -- They could have concluded that they'll keep Tebow on the roster, at least for 2011 either because they don't want to take the cap hit or because they want to see what he can do.

But, if the new coach & GM aren't sold on Tebow NOW is the obvious time to get rid of him, not AFTER he's proven he can't do the job or doesn't fit into the new offensive scheme!

[hotcarl]

:confused:

thanks?

[TXBRONC]

That's alot ifs Cugel.

Even if Tebow starts now a new GM and coach may not like what they see in him.

[Dzone]

Orton should be benched after that performance yesterday. So what if Orton isnt happy. He should accept a demotion and know it is his own damn fault. Orton has been given every chance on earth to succeed here and he has been a huge failure. ORTON HAS FAILED. He stinks as a quarterback. I dont even think he is a viable backup, as bad as he is

[Northman]

Ive thought about this before.

Firstly, how much money do they have tied up in Tebow compared to Orton? Is it cheaper to cut/trade Orton or Tebow?

Secondly, what about the fanbase? Right now most of the fanbase doesnt want Orton as the starter. I mean, when your getting chants for Tebow in opposing stadiums thats saying something.

The other problem is what if Tebow turns out to be a great player while Orton remains average depending on the system?

We already traded Cutler away and he has a lot more upside and potential than Orton so do we risk doing that again?

[TXBRONC]

I think Ellis said that this a four game audition for Studesville to become the head coach on a permanent basis so that's why starting Orton. If we lose in Oakland and especially if lose big Studesville slim chance of becoming the full time head coach will have been eviscerated.

[Buff]

Look at it from Studesville's standpoint. He knows he's gone in 3 more games. He's trying to build his resume for future coaching gigs... What good does it do him to start an unproven rookie? He's not building for the future in Denver, he's trying to win games now.

Now, with Orton's performance the past two games, things are a little more complicated since Orton is no longer performing head and shoulders above Tebow. But, I guess my point is that we need to quit reading so deep into why Tebow isn't playing.

[chazoe60]

Talk about some pissed off fans. You would seriously be risking that forty plus years of sellouts.

I would be so sick to my stomach with that scenario. I imagine I would not be the only Bonco fan stocking up on the Pepto.

[slim]

I think Ellis said that this a four game audition for Studesville to become the head coach on a permanent basis so that's why starting Orton. If we lose in Oakland and especially if lose big Studesville slim chance of becoming the full time head coach will have been eviscerated.

He already has NO chance of becoming the head coach. I am sure he is smart enough to understand that.

[Warhawk]

Question: Every fan would agree with that, most sportswriters and analysts would too. So, why aren't the Broncos doing it? :coffee:

IMO, It's strictly a business decision. The team is saving Tebow for a home game to draw in the fans. If Tebow plays against Oakland and sucks, then it hurts his drawing power with a fanbase that is already disinterested / disgusted. Winning and losing no longer matter much to the team, but they would of course like to make money.

[TXBRONC]

He already has NO chance of becoming the head coach. I am sure he is smart enough to understand that.

I don't know. If you're told you have four games to prove your worth I would guess you would you have chance. Another defeat like this last one he might as well kiss his chances good-bye.

[atwater27]

Maybe Tebow hasn't played because he really sucks in practice. I'm not saying he does, has anybody heard anything about his practices?

[Northman]

Hillis sucked in practice too. lol

[TXBRONC]

Maybe Tebow hasn't played because he really sucks in practice. I'm not saying he does, has anybody heard anything about his practices?

He ran the scout team all last week so he didn't any reps with the first team from what I understand.

[rationalfan]

But, I guess my point is that we need to quit reading so deep into why Tebow isn't playing.

totally agree. of course, that sentiment could be said for virtually every topic on this board.

[vandammage13]

Look at it from Studesville's standpoint. He knows he's gone in 3 more games. He's trying to build his resume for future coaching gigs... What good does it do him to start an unproven rookie? He's not building for the future in Denver, he's trying to win games now.

I don't understand why anyone at this point would believe that Kyle gives you the best chance to win. I keep hearing this nonsense regurgitated, but Kyle hasn't shown that he gives you the best chance to win anything.

You want to win a job? How about starting the rook and come up with some innovative gameplanning and see what happens. McD already got fired riding the noodle arm that is Orton, so why would Studds think he would be any different.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity. The best chance he would have to win the job would be to shake things up and at least put a competitive team on the field that would give us fans something to cheer about. Sticking with the same crap that already got us 9 losses guarantees that you won't win the job.

[slim]

I don't understand why anyone at this point would believe that Kyle gives you the best chance to win. I keep hearing this nonsense regurgitated, but Kyle hasn't shown that he gives you the best chance to win anything.

You want to win a job? How about starting the rook and come up with some innovative gameplanning and see what happens. McD already got fired riding the noodle arm that is Orton, so why would Studds think he would be any different.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity. The best chance he would have to win the job would be to shake things up and at least put a competitive team on the field that would give us fans something to cheer about. Sticking with the same crap that already got us 9 losses guarantees that you won't win the job.

I agree with this.

Studs best chance to impress is to go for broke. Playing it safe is not going to impress anyone, especially when playing it safe results in being ass raped by one of the worst teams in the league.

[vandammage13]

I agree with this.

Studs best chance to impress is to go for broke. Playing it safe is not going to impress anyone, especially when playing it safe results in being ass raped by one of the worst teams in the league.

Exactly...If I'm Studs, I already know that I have little chance to be legitimately considered for the job, so I would be going all in.

Hang your balls out there man... The only chance you have is to do something amazing. If Tebow goes out there and fails, at least you gave it your best shot. Instead, Studs is content with being a run-of-the-mill interim coach that brings nothing new to the table, sticking with the same failed gameplan and player(s) that got his predecessor fired.

[Dzone]

If Studs goes 0-4, he should be shitcanned on monday after the final game...This love affair with Orton is getting ridiculous...Too bad we didnt bench Orton when he was tearing up the league passing stats. We could have gotten a 2 or 3 for him...Now, we will be lucky to get a 5th or 6th for this joker

[TXBRONC]

If Studs goes 0-4, he should be shitcanned on monday after the final game...This love affair with Orton is getting ridiculous...Too bad we didnt bench Orton when he was tearing up the league passing stats. We could have gotten a 2 or 3 for him...Now, we will be lucky to get a 5th or 6th for this joker

I really don't think that would bump up his value that high. If team does its homework they would figure out in a hurry how Orton accumulated those stats.

[nevcraw]

He ran the scout team all last week so he didn't any reps with the first team from what I understand.

Tebow was the closest thing they had to replicate the the the QB stylings of one John Skelton? :slams head into door frame:

[vandammage13]

I really don't think that would bump up his value that high. If team does its homework they would figure out in a hurry how Orton accumulated those stats.

Good point...Once they watched film on him, they would easily see how he was only "carving up" prevent defenses after he spotted the other team a 10-14 point lead.

[Buff]

I don't understand why anyone at this point would believe that Kyle gives you the best chance to win. I keep hearing this nonsense regurgitated, but Kyle hasn't shown that he gives you the best chance to win anything.

You want to win a job? How about starting the rook and come up with some innovative gameplanning and see what happens. McD already got fired riding the noodle arm that is Orton, so why would Studds think he would be any different.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity. The best chance he would have to win the job would be to shake things up and at least put a competitive team on the field that would give us fans something to cheer about. Sticking with the same crap that already got us 9 losses guarantees that you won't win the job.

I'm ready to see Tebow as well. Orton's ceiling is too low to take us to the promised land.

But looking at this objectively from the coach's POV, Orton didn't really play his way out of the job until the last two games. Historically, every rookie struggles in their first couple of games. With three games left our coaches are just trying to keep the wheels from falling off, especially offensively where the playcaller is gone, and we want them to draw up a gameplan for a guy with zero NFL experience? They can hardly keep it together with the veteran in there. Not saying it can't be done, just saying I think everyone needs to chill with the Tebow demands.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Oh dear lord I hope not... Orton is fricking terrible. He's reached Chris Simms bad the past 2 weeks. I've completely lost confidence in him and want him gone.

[TXBRONC]

I'm ready to see Tebow as well. Orton's ceiling is too low to take us to the promised land.

But looking at this objectively from the coach's POV, Orton didn't really play his way out of the job until the last two games. Historically, every rookie struggles in their first couple of games. With three games left our coaches are just trying to keep the wheels from falling off, especially offensively where the playcaller is gone, and we want them to draw up a gameplan for a guy with zero NFL experience? They can hardly keep it together with the veteran in there.

Isn't it a little late to be worried about the wheels coming off?

[Buff]

Isn't it a little late to be worried about the wheels coming off?

Valid point, nothing to lose at this point... Something to be said for getting him some experience at any cost.

But I do believe Studesville honestly believes Orton gives them the best chance to win right now.

[claymore]

Can we start calling Orton COK 8?

[TXBRONC]

Valid point, nothing to lose at this point... Something to be said for getting him some experience at any cost.

But I do believe Studesville honestly believes Orton gives them the best chance to win right now.

I agree, Studesville is being honest about believing Orton gives the team the best chance to win. I still find it a little frustrating.

[BeefStew25]

All Orton does is get coaches fired.

[vandammage13]

I'm ready to see Tebow as well. Orton's ceiling is too low to take us to the promised land.

But looking at this objectively from the coach's POV, Orton didn't really play his way out of the job until the last two games. Historically, every rookie struggles in their first couple of games. With three games left our coaches are just trying to keep the wheels from falling off, especially offensively where the playcaller is gone, and we want them to draw up a gameplan for a guy with zero NFL experience? They can hardly keep it together with the veteran in there. Not saying it can't be done, just saying I think everyone needs to chill with the Tebow demands.

I hate to break this to you Buff, but the wheels came off a long time ago. Somehow, a 3-10 record and a 43-13 loss to the hapless Cardinals wasn't evidence enough for you.

[Lancane]

Cugel has a valid point though...one that I brought up as well. Why is this organization so afraid to play Tebow?

Studesville admitted to local media that he has to get permission to put Tebow in? Even if Orton is down?...Orton was hurt the other day in Arizona and we were getting our asses kicked, and Orton could have used the breather...one series even? He is the backup quarterback isn't he?

Tim Tebow asked Joe Ellis if he had to worry about his future with the team, Ellis supposedly said just be patient...is that all that was said? Usually Tebow is confident, but his comments the other day were filled with doubt, he said not being able to play in the next three contests would be a wasted opportunity, but for whom?

As I said, something stinks in Dove Valley...if this kid is the future, then why not just go for broke? Studesville isn't playing for a job, none of us ever really believed that he was indeed the one to get the role after this year either, let's be honest. But sounds like we're going to start Orton again, what about the reps that Studesville said Tebow would get this week? Maybe their going to gauge his progress and see if anyone believes that he is the future. I dunno...but something feels wrong, Tebow is not being himself...he's always been about the best of the team and he's losing his energy. Maybe he was told there are no future guarantees from Ellis.

But I could see Denver trading Tebow, his value is worth more then Orton's right now to be quite frank and not all teams have a shot at one of the bigger prospects in this years draft...but I think we're all guessing at this point.

[TXBRONC]

Cugel has a valid point though...one that I brought up as well. Why is this organization so afraid to play Tebow?

Studesville admitted to local media that he has to get permission to put Tebow in? Even if Orton is down?...Orton was hurt the other day in Arizona and we were getting our asses kicked, and Orton could have used the breather...one series even? He is the backup quarterback isn't he?

Tim Tebow asked Joe Ellis if he had to worry about his future with the team, Ellis supposedly said just be patient...is that all that was said? Usually Tebow is confident, but his comments the other day were filled with doubt, he said not being able to play in the next three contests would be a wasted opportunity, but for whom?

As I said, something stinks in Dove Valley...if this kid is the future, then why not just go for broke? Studesville isn't playing for a job, none of us ever really believed that he was indeed the one to get the role after this year either, let's be honest. But sounds like we're going to start Orton again, what about the reps that Studesville said Tebow would get this week? Maybe their going to gauge his progress and see if anyone believes that he is the future. I dunno...but something feels wrong, Tebow is not being himself...he's always been about the best of the team and he's losing his energy. Maybe he was told there are no future guarantees from Ellis.

But I could see Denver trading Tebow, his value is worth more then Orton's right now to be quite frank and not all teams have a shot at one of the bigger prospects in this years draft...but I think we're all guessing at this point.

I need a lot more information from those before I am willing to say that they're afraid to let Tebow play. When Studesville took the reigns last week it was said he has latitude to play those he thinks will help the team win. Going into yesterday's I'm sure he really thought he was coaching for a full time gig with team. If that thought isn't dead it's at least on life support. I would have liked Tebow to get some kind of playing time if fact I was disappointed that Studesville couldn't even put him in for the final series of the game. All Orton did was hand the damn ball you can't tell me Tebow is way raw to hand off freaking ball in the waning minutes of blowout loss.

I don't know if Tebow not getting in means anything more he didn't get into the game. Maybe you're right they're letting Tebow play because he's a class A screw up but I'm just not convinced that's the case atm.

[hotcarl]

I need a lot more information from those before I am willing to say that they're afraid to let Tebow play. When Studesville took the reigns last week it was said he has latitude to play those he thinks will help the team win. Going into yesterday's I'm sure he really thought he was coaching for a full time gig with team. If that thought isn't dead it's at least on life support. I would have liked Tebow to get some kind of playing time if fact I was disappointed that Studesville couldn't even put him in for the final series of the game. All Orton did was hand the damn ball you can't tell me Tebow is way raw to hand off freaking ball in the waning minutes of blowout loss.

I don't know if Tebow not getting in means anything more he didn't get into the game. Maybe you're right they're letting Tebow play because he's a class A screw up but I'm just not convinced that's the case atm.

tl;dr