Headcoach the Problem?

[WARHORSE]

Was/is our problem the headcoach?


I totally understand the firing of McD.


But just like he was almost crushed by the pressure of losing, I think Bowlen was crushed by that same losing knowing the headcoach had no experience.


We will never know of course, but imo, it was not McD that needed to leave.

At least not at this point.

This isnt a thread saying McD didnt make mistakes. This isnt a thread saying McD would have brought us a superbowl.

But I think even in looking at Tebow, McD would have given him the best chance to succeed in the last four games.


What I saw out there today spoke volumes.


Bowlen hired McD KNOWING he had never run a team before. He gave him too much power. Knowing that McD made trades without consulting Xman, what does that tell you?

What would the team look like if Bowlen had never given McD the power over personel, and had actually hired a GM? Why give the power to a headcoach with NO HC experience.....and NO experience as a GM?

Seems to me giving all that power to Josh proved to be everyones downfall.


This headcoach got the team prepared to play. Better than anyone beforehand.......ask the players.

But if there were a GM, McDaniels would not have been the guy dealing with all the player issues.

Any lights going on here?


He had his hands full enough simply learning the ins and outs of being in the top position, and the front office piled on even more before he even won a single game.


I think Josh is going to be a good headcoach if he learns from his mistakes here.

But if he were never the one dealing with Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, the draft picks....etc, etc. How much of a difference pressure-wise would it have been for Josh if he was not the one having to answer the questions about all the malcontents?


Think about it.


I dont think the problem was the headcoach. But unfortunately, we put him in a position where it could ONLY be his fault.

Thats Bowlen and Ellis fault.


Thoughts.:coffee:



Broncos or Die.

[Dreadnought]

I'm afraid its not either/or, WH. My fear is the answer is "All of the above."

Well, this year is a washout. I refuse to be angry anymore. Here's hoping the NFL solves the labor stuff and somehow we put a management team in place that can start rebuilding this franchise into what we expect it to be. Apart from that all I want to see who on this roster wants to play football for real. The others we can be rid of

[Tned]

A couple points.

First, McD wouldn't have given Tebow the best chance to succeed the last four games, because McDaniels said he wasn't going to start Tebow.

Second, we had a GM in place in Goodman, working with his son and Xanders. They had had several successful drafts. However, McDaniels and Goodman disagreed on the player moves, and Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans and put McDaniels in charge. Now, IMHO that was a big mistake, but that's the way McDaniels wanted it.

He sold himself as someone who could be GM and HC. While it was a mistake for Bowlen and Ellis to let him, it's primarily on McDaniels. He wanted the responsibility and screwed the roster up big time.

[Juriga72]

What I find sad is two years ago they cut 30 players from a team that went 8-8....

can we get them back?

[AgentOrange]

Warhorse, while agree that others may be to blame we must remember that McD accepted the job and, as far as I know, never asked for the arrangement to be restructured. In fact it appeared that he enjoyed having that much influence over the team.

My $0.02

[Dreadnought]

What I find sad is two years ago they cut 30 players from a team that went 8-8....

can we get them back?

Not Nate Webster or Marlon McRee. Please let them stay gone. Thanks!

[Tned]

Warhorse, while agree that others may be to blame we must remember that McD accepted the job and, as far as I know, never asked for the arrangement to be restructured. In fact it appeared that he enjoyed having that much influence over the team.

My $0.02

It's worse than that really. He was hired into a structure where others were making the personnel decisions. However, he disagreed with them (likely over Cutler/Cassel and draft strategy), and he got Bowlen/Ellis to fire the Goodmans.

[TXBRONC]

Well McDaniels was part of the problem because he was still one who made personnel decisions. Whether McDaniels shouldn't have had that much authority is irrelevant. He did have the authority and made unwise decisions with it.

I seem to remember some people vehemently defending McDaniels for the very decisions that you're second guessing. If a GM had been in place it would helped to keep Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis. OTOH it would not have done a thing for his piss poor people skills.

[Northman]

Was/is our problem the headcoach?

Yes, it was a problem but there are others.



What I saw out there today spoke volumes.

Actually, what you saw was a team that was being run by a RB's coach. Keep in mind this is only temporary with Stud. But, today wasnt some sort of clarification on the problems of the team. Those problems have been here all year long.


Bowlen hired McD KNOWING he had never run a team before. He gave him too much power.

Indeed, biggest mistake Bowlen made. But, McD took on that responsibility when he signed the contract.


What would the team look like if Bowlen had never given McD the power over personel, and had actually hired a GM?

Cant say. Would Marshall and Cutler still be here? Hillis? Would Tebow have been drafted? Too hard to say.


But if there were a GM, McDaniels would not have been the guy dealing with all the player issues.

I agree. But, with that in mind and considering Josh's tempermant and inability to handle players at a social level (players said he wasnt a very good player guy) how would of he handled the players? Bench them every week? He just wasnt a people person and it showed so if he didnt have the control to wheel and deal them how would he have co-existed? Food for thought.


I think Josh is going to be a good headcoach if he learns from his mistakes here.

Maybe, maybe not. He needs to work on his player relations the most.



Bottom line is, Josh was offered a job. It came with a lot of responsibility and it was a higher pay grade and a GRAND opportunity for him. If at any point Josh didnt feel comfortable with that much power he should of said something before taking on that responsibility. While Bowlen and Ellis share some blame so does McD. But when it came to dealing with players attitudes thats all on McD. He's a good x's and o's guy, but until he learns how to work well with other players and coaches he will not succeed.

[spikerman]

He sold himself as someone who could be GM and HC. While it was a mistake for Bowlen and Ellis to let him, it's primarily on McDaniels. He wanted the responsibility and screwed the roster up big time.

I would argue in this scenario most of the blame goes to Bowlen and Ellis for giving the power to McDaniels. Today was just more evidence of the complete disaster that was the Josh McDaniels regime.

[Rick]

Getting rid of the GM triumvirate and giving MCD full power was the mistake.

Now we are paying for that mistake, MCD or Stud doesn't matter except with MCD gone bleeding has been bandaged. Whether is heals...will depend on what we do from here about front office.

[spikerman]

I wonder if Bowlen wishes he could go back to the day he decided to fire Shanahan and take it all back.

[Tned]

I would argue in this scenario most of the blame goes to Bowlen and Ellis for giving the power to McDaniels. Today was just more evidence of the complete disaster that was the Josh McDaniels regime.

No question they made a big mistake. They compounded it by watching him make mistake after mistake and continuing to have faith in his ability to turn things around.

[spikerman]

No question they made a big mistake. The compounded it buy watching him make mistake after mistake and continuing to have faith in his ability to turn things around.

I could not agree with this post more.

[TXBRONC]

I would argue in this scenario most of the blame goes to Bowlen and Ellis for giving the power to McDaniels. Today was just more evidence of the complete disaster that was the Josh McDaniels regime.

Giving McDaniels that much authority may not have been the wisest move but he didn't balk at taking on the responsibility after the Goodmans were shit canned. So once you get past that point then personnel moves are all on McDaniels.

[spikerman]

Giving McDaniels that much authority may not have been the wisest move but he didn't balk at taking on the responsibility after the Goodmans were shit canned. So once you get past that point then personnel moves are all on McDaniels.

Don't get me wrong. I don't absolve McDaniels of his complete lack of talent evaluation skills and his incompetence with personnel, but Bowlen and Ellis gave him that power. Very few people are going to turn down that authority if it's offered.

[Lancane]

No one is innocent within the organization, I've believed that for some time now. Bowlen should be held accountable for not being able to change, for believing in the blue-print of old, and for not being more assertive with a respected NFL organization that he is not only the owner but also the CEO of. Ellis is far from innocent because he helped pave the way for the problems that came with the new regime, he helped in the internal coup that caused so many problems - the hiring of Josh McDaniels and helping him get power, the firing of the Goodmans to pave a way for Brian Xanders who pretty much rolled over for McDaniels. The fans, for turning on players because of the coach's bullshit and lies and holding them responsible instead of those who caused the problem to begin with.

If Bowlen would have placed someone reputable in the General Manager seat, such as Goodman and said he had final say in everything and let McDaniels know that he was but a coach. Then we have Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Peyton Hillis still here, we would have Champ Bailey staying and remaining a Bronco for the remainder of his career. We have no questionable draft day trades and moves...and in all likeliness we have a winning record and are heading to the playoffs, he still would have a job...the fans would be happy and so on and so forth.

[Northman]

Don't get me wrong. I don't absolve McDaniels of his complete lack of talent evaluation skills and his incompetence with personnel, but Bowlen and Ellis gave him that power. Very few people are going to turn down that authority if it's offered.

All very true but like i pointed out earlier once you sign on the dotted line you need to fullfill that. Its like signing the deal with the devil.

[TXBRONC]

Don't get me wrong. I don't absolve McDaniels of his complete lack of talent evaluation skills and his incompetence with personnel, but Bowlen and Ellis gave him that power. Very few people are going to turn down that authority if it's offered.

I get that I don't disagree that original mistake is giving McDaniels that authority to begin with, however once that was done it was done. From that point that has to be on McDaniels because then had the opportunity to consult others and chose not too.

[Tned]

No one is innocent within the organization, I've believed that for some time now. Bowlen should be held accountable for not being able to change, for believing in the blue-print of old, and for not being more assertive with a respected NFL organization that he is not only the owner but also the CEO of. Ellis is far from innocent because he helped pave the way for the problems that came with the new regime, he helped in the internal coup that caused so many problems - the hiring of Josh McDaniels and helping him get power, the firing of the Goodmans to pave a way for Brian Xanders who pretty much rolled over for McDaniels. The fans, for turning on players because of the coach's bullshit and lies and holding them responsible instead of those who caused the problem to begin with.

If Bowlen would have placed someone reputable in the General Manager seat, such as Goodman and said he had final say in everything and let McDaniels know that he was but a coach. Then we have Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Peyton Hillis still here, we would have Champ Bailey staying and remaining a Bronco for the remainder of his career. We have no questionable draft day trades and moves...and in all likeliness we have a winning record and are heading to the playoffs, he still would have a job...the fans would be happy and so on and so forth.

Mostly a spot on post, but inaccurate in regard to Ellis and the internal coup, the hiring of McDaniels. it is well known, and has been reported, that Pat Bowlen decided in their first interview with McDaniels that he was the guy. How much influence Ellis, Xanders or the Goodmans (all in the first interview with Bowlen) had on Bowlen choosing McDaniels, we may never know, but it was Bowlen's decision.

As to the firing of the Goodmans, we don't know who was instrumental in making that decision, Bowlen, Ellis or both.

[Lancane]

Mostly a spot on post, but inaccurate in regard to Ellis and the internal coup, the hiring of McDaniels. it is well known, and has been reported, that Pat Bowlen decided in their first interview with McDaniels that he was the guy. How much influence Ellis, Xanders or the Goodmans (all in the first interview with Bowlen) had on Bowlen choosing McDaniels, we may never know, but it was Bowlen's decision.

As to the firing of the Goodmans, we don't know who was instrumental in making that decision, Bowlen, Ellis or both.

I don't know if he was responsible in creating the coup, but he had a chance to put his foot down as the right-hand of Bowlen, instead he allowed and backed McDaniels and I believe Bowlen believed in him. Why else would Bowlen's children be asking him to fire Ellis according to rumors, and I believe them true, because it makes sense. Everyone is at fault, but I think Ellis was instrumental in the moves that gave McDaniels the power he had.

[Tned]

I don't know if he was responsible in creating the coup, but he had a chance to put his foot down as the right-hand of Bowlen, instead he allowed and backed McDaniels and I believe Bowlen believed in him. Why else would Bowlen's children be asking him to fire Ellis according to rumors, and I believe them true, because it makes sense. Everyone is at fault, but I think Ellis was instrumental in the moves that gave McDaniels the power he had.

I haven't heard those rumors. I just try my best to discuss what we know, because it's been reported, rather than all the hypotheticals, which are typically not even based on small amounts of fact.

[jhildebrand]

Look, if you were expecting the removal of McDaniels to rectify the entire situation, then you couldn't be more wrong! That doesn't change the fact that McD needed to be released. Sometimes, like with a bad cut, the most important thing is to stop the cutting or the bleeding. That doesn't mean the pain wont persist for some time. That is the case here.

Removing McDaniels isn't going to rectify the entire situation. It does stop the bleeding and the potential for future damage. Today's game was important because it shows just how important our first round draft pick will be this year! Now just imagine if that had been stripped due to Spygate II :eek:

McDaniels continued to show that not only was he not learning but continuing to make the same mistakes all while he was losing not only the team but the coaching staff. Tonight Sandy Clough made it clear that the players even in the lockerroom tonight said this is the outcome they would have expected had McDaniels remained and had he still been around they would have expected mutiny.

Of course we would still like to see a competitive product but it didn't happen. Shame on those that half assed it-Orton, DJ, AYERS (was terrible), Gaffney, and several others. That's fine because when they hit the waiver wire most the teams will only, if they are lucky, watch the final four games and those guys left pure defication on tape.

Going forward, I still like Studesville's chances to keep this team as together as much as one could hope. Will we win? I doubt it against Oakland, nor Houston, nor SD. I just hope we see more of the youth and especially now Tebow after seeing the hissy fit that was Orton tonight.

Most importantly, McD's removal allows the team all the time it needs to place a GM and FO to prepare for the draft and have 3 live games to evaluate the current roster! We all saw how limited McDaniels was when he had his first draft and all the reports were they simply were short handed and didn't have enough time. Now that is no longer an excuse.

[Lancane]

I haven't heard those rumors. I just try my best to discuss what we know, because it's been reported, rather than all the hypotheticals, which are typically not even based on small amounts of fact.

I can understand that, but I would prefer to hate Ellis rather then Bowlen, because if Bowlen allowed for that to happen...then he is senile!

:lol:

[jhildebrand]

I don't know if he was responsible in creating the coup, but he had a chance to put his foot down as the right-hand of Bowlen, instead he allowed and backed McDaniels and I believe Bowlen believed in him. Why else would Bowlen's children be asking him to fire Ellis according to rumors, and I believe them true, because it makes sense. Everyone is at fault, but I think Ellis was instrumental in the moves that gave McDaniels the power he had.

Either way, Bowlen and Ellis stood by and accepted McDaniels getting or taking the authority he had and never bothered to step in. For that, they are both equally guilty.

My problem is Ellis gushed about the NE way and especially McDaniels. Only now has he tried to distance himself from all of that and does it more vigorously when speaking about Elway.

Ellis isn't a football guy and shouldn't be involved in the football side of things. Just my :2cents:

[WARHORSE]

A couple points.

First, McD wouldn't have given Tebow the best chance to succeed the last four games, because McDaniels said he wasn't going to start Tebow.

That was before the last game, and while technically youre correct, if Bowlen told McD to play Tebow, and he did, McD would give him the best chance to do well. The thought is, who would prepare Tebow better.....McCoy/Studsville or McDaniels? McD.


Second, we had a GM in place in Goodman, working with his son and Xanders. They had had several successful drafts. However, McDaniels and Goodman disagreed on the player moves, and Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans and put McDaniels in charge. Now, IMHO that was a big mistake, but that's the way McDaniels wanted it.

He sold himself as someone who could be GM and HC. While it was a mistake for Bowlen and Ellis to let him, it's primarily on McDaniels. He wanted the responsibility and screwed the roster up big time.

Im sorry, but in no way is that McDaniels fault. No matter what McDaniels said, you cant TALK yourself into having experience as a GM. He had no HC experience and no GM experience. If anything, they could have let him possible grow into a role like that.......they let themselves be hypnotized by the preparedness and the drive of Josh, which are impressive......but not impressive enough to let yourself put too much on a young mans plate. Theres no excuse.




The pressure of the Cutler situation. The Marshall situation. The Scheffler situation. The Hillis situation.

Would Broncos fans look at McDaniels differently if it were not him that had made those trades? Of course. They would have said the F.O. handicapped him. OR, one, some or none of those trades never would have taken place.

It would have had to be the GM addressing why they did what they did and not Josh......taking a TON of pressure off the man.

[dogfish]

I wonder if Bowlen wishes he could go back to the day he decided to fire Shanahan and take it all back.

if he's smart, he wishes he could go to a week or so after that and hire steve spagnuolo instead of mcdaniels. . .

[Lancane]

if he's smart, he wishes he could go to a week or so after that and hire steve spagnuolo instead of mcdaniels. . .

Or Jason Garrett or Rick Dennison or...:laugh:

[WARHORSE]

Yes, it was a problem but there are others.

Sure. Just like every team. And Josh made his mistakes. But didnt Bowlen and company know that was coming with an inexperienced HC? Yes.


Actually, what you saw was a team that was being run by a RB's coach. Keep in mind this is only temporary with Stud. But, today wasnt some sort of clarification on the problems of the team. Those problems have been here all year long.

Thats correct. But it also tells you the impact of McDaniels.

Indeed, biggest mistake Bowlen made. But, McD took on that responsibility when he signed the contract.

McD did not take on those responsibilities when he signed. Its on record and common knowledge Xanders and the Goodmans were going to run personel. Josh did not have those responsibilities until later.

Cant say. Would Marshall and Cutler still be here? Hillis? Would Tebow have been drafted? Too hard to say.

Thats true. But whether they were or werent, two things would have been different. One, McDaniels would not have been the one to address those issues, thereby removing him as a target of certain players attitudes. In other words, like in the instance of Brandon, if Marshall knew McD had nothing to do with his contract, that disagreement would never have come into their relationship. Two, the pressure of failed decisions would not have been on his head.....removing that questioning, pressure, and responsibility off of himself. Big difference in your ability to perform your duties.


I agree. But, with that in mind and considering Josh's tempermant and inability to handle players at a social level (players said he wasnt a very good player guy) how would of he handled the players? Bench them every week? He just wasnt a people person and it showed so if he didnt have the control to wheel and deal them how would he have co-existed? Food for thought.

I dont disagree there are personality conflicts. But there are those all over the league. Add the pressure that Josh had, and all of a sudden a small conflict between coach and player turns into a full blown explosion due to the pressure Josh is feeling.


Maybe, maybe not. He needs to work on his player relations the most.



Bottom line is, Josh was offered a job. It came with a lot of responsibility and it was a higher pay grade and a GRAND opportunity for him. If at any point Josh didnt feel comfortable with that much power he should of said something before taking on that responsibility. While Bowlen and Ellis share some blame so does McD. But when it came to dealing with players attitudes thats all on McD. He's a good x's and o's guy, but until he learns how to work well with other players and coaches he will not succeed.


The man got the team prepared to play. Taken from the players themselves, he had them prepared on sundays.

Does that remove all responsibility of an offense that scores a measely 6 pts on a sunday? Nope.

But this is the NFL, and everyone comes to play.


Suppose McD tells Bowlen and Ellis, I CAN RUN THIS, LET ME DO IT!

Im the corner man in the boxing ring, and I show you I can close a huge gash and make it stop bleeding in one minute, then stitch it up after the fight and youre amazed. Youre so amazed you ask me what else I can do. I tell you, "I can do brain surgery". You gonna let me do it when I have absolutley no experience in the field?


Bowlen and Ellis are to blame for giving McD too much. They have stated as much.


I still dont think the problem was the headcoach.

I dont think hes the reason we're losing totally.


I believe the Josh the GM, and Ellis and Bowlen are to blame.

If McDaniels were simply the HC, and here today, the problem would be in certain personel needs.

Thats all Im sayin.

Now we're going to change EVERYTHING all over again?

Is that whats going to help us win?

If anything, fire McDaniels the GM, and let us grow in the system by sustaining some continuity here.

How many defensive coordinators we gone through in the last ten years? No wonder Champ wants to leave. And he said no one prepared him better than Josh.

Just some thoughts.:coffee:


Go Broncos.

[Bosco]

Second, we had a GM in place in Goodman, working with his son and Xanders. They had had several successful drafts. However, McDaniels and Goodman disagreed on the player moves, and Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans and put McDaniels in charge. Now, IMHO that was a big mistake, but that's the way McDaniels wanted it.

Jim Goodman wasn't the GM. He was the VP of Football Operations. Xanders and Jeff Goodman shared the GM title before the split. Also, the disagreements weren't between Josh and Jeff. That was between Xanders, Jeff, and several members of the scouting department. Unlike his dad, Jeff Goodman was rumored to not be very well liked. It's all pretty well outlined to in this story.


Bowlen said he knew the decision to streamline the personnel department, with Xanders at the top, would leave Jeff Goodman "disenfranchised."


Bowlen acknowledged some "anxiety" between Jeff Goodman and Xanders as they shared duties, and though Bowlen said there was no friction in their relationship, it was inevitable that the one not picked to be GM would have to leave.

"My decision was to pick Brian as the general manager, and once I did that I don't think Jeff felt — he didn't come out and say this — but he felt he should have moved on," Bowlen said. "I think he should move on to a different organization and become a general manager."

By going with Xanders, that also meant proceeding without Jim Goodman, who had been with the Broncos for 11 years. Bowlen said he didn't think Jim would be comfortable staying without Jeff.

"I don't think it would have worked," Bowlen said. "Knowing Jim for a long time, I have a great deal of respect for him. Jim is a top-notch guy who could run anybody's scouting department. And I felt he should be given that opportunity."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11693597

While I personally liked what Jim Goodman was doing, as far as I know, no one else has hired him to date, which is sort of telling.

[spikerman]

It appears that Bowlen chose unwisely.

[Tned]

The pressure of the Cutler situation. The Marshall situation. The Scheffler situation. The Hillis situation.

Would Broncos fans look at McDaniels differently if it were not him that had made those trades? Of course. They would have said the F.O. handicapped him. OR, one, some or none of those trades never would have taken place.

It would have had to be the GM addressing why they did what they did and not Josh......taking a TON of pressure off the man.

Yes, if a GM traded all of those players on McDaniels or a head coach, some fans would have said, "great, now McDaniels doesn't need to deal with those malcontents..." and others would have said "_____ just traded away all of our talent, he needs to be fired", which is basically what we saw happen.

Regardless, the GM didn't trade them away, McDaniels did. You can't defend McDaniels by saying he shouldn't have been allowed to. All that does is show he wasn't ready to be an HC. He got the Goodmans fired because they reportedly had disagreements with him about player moves. He clearly wasn't ready to be a head coach, which was made worse when he made the power grab and effectively was GM, too.

[Tned]

The man got the team prepared to play. Taken from the players themselves, he had them prepared on sundays.

Does that remove all responsibility of an offense that scores a measely 6 pts on a sunday? Nope.

But this is the NFL, and everyone comes to play.


Suppose McD tells Bowlen and Ellis, I CAN RUN THIS, LET ME DO IT!

Im the corner man in the boxing ring, and I show you I can close a huge gash and make it stop bleeding in one minute, then stitch it up after the fight and youre amazed. Youre so amazed you ask me what else I can do. I tell you, "I can do brain surgery". You gonna let me do it when I have absolutley no experience in the field?


Bowlen and Ellis are to blame for giving McD too much. They have stated as much.


I still dont think the problem was the headcoach.

I dont think hes the reason we're losing totally.


I believe the Josh the GM, and Ellis and Bowlen are to blame.

If McDaniels were simply the HC, and here today, the problem would be in certain personel needs.

Thats all Im sayin.

Now we're going to change EVERYTHING all over again?

Is that whats going to help us win?

If anything, fire McDaniels the GM, and let us grow in the system by sustaining some continuity here.

How many defensive coordinators we gone through in the last ten years? No wonder Champ wants to leave. And he said no one prepared him better than Josh.

Just some thoughts.:coffee:


Go Broncos.

Do you want to pull up all the quotes where Champ talked about how great Slowick was? :confused:

We have another DC this year, because McDaniels got rid of him.

There is no question that the team screwed up letting McDaniels make the power grab shortly after he was hired, but the fact is he did, and he couldn't live up to his promises and destroyed the team.

[BeefStew25]

Guys this might be bad. The guy that hired McD is the same guy that is going to hire our next front office: Joe Ellis.

[TXBRONC]

Originally Posted by Tned
A couple points.

First, McD wouldn't have given Tebow the best chance to succeed the last four games, because McDaniels said he wasn't going to start Tebow.

That was before the last game, and while technically youre correct, if Bowlen told McD to play Tebow, and he did, McD would give him the best chance to do well. The thought is, who would prepare Tebow better.....McCoy/Studsville or McDaniels? McD.

Second, we had a GM in place in Goodman, working with his son and Xanders. They had had several successful drafts. However, McDaniels and Goodman disagreed on the player moves, and Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans and put McDaniels in charge. Now, IMHO that was a big mistake, but that's the way McDaniels wanted it.

He sold himself as someone who could be GM and HC. While it was a mistake for Bowlen and Ellis to let him, it's primarily on McDaniels. He wanted the responsibility and screwed the roster up big time.

Im sorry, but in no way is that McDaniels fault. No matter what McDaniels said, you cant TALK yourself into having experience as a GM. He had no HC experience and no GM experience. If anything, they could have let him possible grow into a role like that.......they let themselves be hypnotized by the preparedness and the drive of Josh, which are impressive......but not impressive enough to let yourself put too much on a young mans plate. Theres no excuse.




The pressure of the Cutler situation. The Marshall situation. The Scheffler situation. The Hillis situation.

Would Broncos fans look at McDaniels differently if it were not him that had made those trades? Of course. They would have said the F.O. handicapped him. OR, one, some or none of those trades never would have taken place.

It would have had to be the GM addressing why they did what they did and not Josh......taking a TON of pressure off the man.

There is no technically being right about McDaniels being absolutely opposed to starting Tebow. If it takes starting Tebow for having him prepared then what hell did McDaniels do for the last eight months? Btw if I'm not mistaken from the time Tebow got to Denver McCoy and Ben McDaniels spent the most time with him. You're saying McDaniels would have had prepared to play will with his vehement opposition to starting Tebow apparently McDaniels didn't feel he could have him prepared to play.

The pressure of trading Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Hillis was of McDaniels choosing. If a strong GM would have been in place then we might not have traded those players in the first place. But that still would take all the pressure off of McDaniels because he has a serious inability to get along with people.

[Dirk]

One thing that can't be measured while practicing and preparing. Game day execution.

They don't know how Tebow will execute on game day. If they watched any footage of him in college they could see that he has a winning way about him, along with some pretty damn good improvising. We see that Orton has no improvising skills.

[frauschieze]

Guys this might be bad. The guy that hired McD is the same guy that is going to hire our next front office: Joe Ellis.

Two words, my friend.

John. Elway.

[Dzone]

How can anyone ignore the mess Mcdaniels created because of his poor people skills and arrogance? So whos to blame? Mcd or the people who hired him? Blame Mcdaniels for this mess

[Dzone]

Mike leach is coming on 877 in a minute. Hes the first guy that Mcd got rid of

[BroncoStud]

It all starts at the top. Bowlen and Ellis are the clowns that put McD in charge of everything football in Denver. McD was a horrible GM but not a bad coach. If he had a good GM from the beginning Denver might be in great shape right now.

While McD was pitiful at playing GM, the fault lies with Bowlen and Ellis.

When you can hand a teenager the keys to your car you have to understand the risk in doing so.

[frauschieze]

Mike leach is coming on 877 in a minute. Hes the first guy that Mcd got rid of

Report? :shocked: