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spikerman
12-12-2010, 12:58 PM
Yes!!!! Finally the voice of reason. On ESPN's pregame show, Carl Johnson, the NFL V.P. of Officiating just said, "Most folks will tell you that you can call holding on every play. No you can't. We want to see a grab and a restriction, or a hook and a restriction, [or] a takedown, and all of these must happen at the point of attack.

That last part is key. It's that way at the HS and semi-pro level, but I didn't know NFL officials worked that way as well. So next time we're all screaming for holding we have to remember that if it's not at the point of attack it will not, and should not, be called.

LordTrychon
12-12-2010, 01:22 PM
Yes!!!! Finally the voice of reason. On ESPN's pregame show, Carl Johnson, the NFL V.P. of Officiating just said, "Most folks will tell you that you can call holding on every play. No you can't. We want to see a grab and a restriction, or a hook and a restriction, [or] a takedown, and all of these must happen at the point of attack.

That last part is key. It's that way at the HS and semi-pro level, but I didn't know NFL officials worked that way as well. So next time we're all screaming for holding we have to remember that if it's not at the point of attack it will not, and should not, be called.

Could you define for us a little better what the point of attack emphasis means?

I'm usually pretty good at pointing out holding at correct times in the game... but having it defined more specifically would be nice.

spikerman
12-12-2010, 01:34 PM
Could you define for us a little better what the point of attack emphasis means?

I'm usually pretty good at pointing out holding at correct times in the game... but having it defined more specifically would be nice.

Sure! Basically it's where the ball (carrier) is, or is heading. If a back is running through a hole, and holding is taking place at the point the ball carrier is about to run to or through then that is holding. If the holding is taking place across the field and has no effect on the play it should not be called.

Did I explain that well? If not, I can try to track down the actual "definition", but a lot of times the official definitions sound like "lawyer speak" :)

KCL
12-12-2010, 01:37 PM
Sure! Basically it's where the ball (carrier) is, or is heading. If a back is running through a hole, and holding is taking place at the point the ball carrier is about to run to or through then that is holding. If the holding is taking place across the field and has no effect on the play it should not be called.

Did I explain that well? If not, I can try to track down the actual "definition", but a lot of times the official definitions sound like "lawyer speak" :)

I understand what you're saying and I hate that call when the underlined happens.

Dirk
12-13-2010, 09:16 AM
On the topic of offensive holding.....5 yards is enough. 10 yards is extreme to me.

LordTrychon
12-13-2010, 09:29 AM
Sure! Basically it's where the ball (carrier) is, or is heading. If a back is running through a hole, and holding is taking place at the point the ball carrier is about to run to or through then that is holding. If the holding is taking place across the field and has no effect on the play it should not be called.

Did I explain that well? If not, I can try to track down the actual "definition", but a lot of times the official definitions sound like "lawyer speak" :)

That's very helpful. Thank you. I was also not aware this is how the NFL rule was interpreted... great info.

That certainly clears some stuff up.

The one that I see the most that I'm often upset that doesn't get called is when our pass rusher is going after the QB, has mostly gotten away from their blocker, but you can literally see them partially turned around because the blocker is behind them but still pulling on their arms.

For some reason, the hook and ladder play years back sticks out in my mind against the Vikings. :laugh: That play pissed me off.

spikerman
12-13-2010, 06:10 PM
On the topic of offensive holding.....5 yards is enough. 10 yards is extreme to me.

I don't know..I think 10 is good. The penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul if it's past the neutral zone and from the previous spot if it occurs behind the neutral zone unless it happens in the end zone. That's why you can see something like a running back run for 25 yards, but an olineman was holding 16 yards downfield - the penalty is 10 yards from the spot of the foul so if it's accepted it would be first down and four to go. Weird. Damn this game is complicated.

spikerman
12-13-2010, 06:15 PM
That's very helpful. Thank you. I was also not aware this is how the NFL rule was interpreted... great info.

That certainly clears some stuff up.

The one that I see the most that I'm often upset that doesn't get called is when our pass rusher is going after the QB, has mostly gotten away from their blocker, but you can literally see them partially turned around because the blocker is behind them but still pulling on their arms.

For some reason, the hook and ladder play years back sticks out in my mind against the Vikings. :laugh: That play pissed me off.

Thanks! I didn't know the NFL used the "point of attack" either until I saw Johnson talk about it.

I understand your frustration with that call. Another one that's tough is "illegal hands to the face". An NFL umpire came and talked to us at one of our clinics a couple of years ago and he said the rule is if the hand is on the facemask for a "prolonged and sustained" amount of time it's a foul. Someone asked him how he knew when to throw the flag and he said if he can say the phrase "prolonged and sustained" while the hand is on the facemask that's a flag. Keep in mind that I'm talking about play along the line of scrimmage and not a facemask penalty.

LordTrychon
12-14-2010, 03:25 PM
Thanks! I didn't know the NFL used the "point of attack" either until I saw Johnson talk about it.

I understand your frustration with that call. Another one that's tough is "illegal hands to the face". An NFL umpire came and talked to us at one of our clinics a couple of years ago and he said the rule is if the hand is on the facemask for a "prolonged and sustained" amount of time it's a foul. Someone asked him how he knew when to throw the flag and he said if he can say the phrase "prolonged and sustained" while the hand is on the facemask that's a flag. Keep in mind that I'm talking about play along the line of scrimmage and not a facemask penalty.

Is it stressed differently with cb/wr exchanges? I seem to remember a lot of times I hear the illegal hands to the face with very little or very quick contact, both on the perimeter as well as along the line. Though I will pay closer attention now.

spikerman
12-14-2010, 06:05 PM
Is it stressed differently with cb/wr exchanges? I seem to remember a lot of times I hear the illegal hands to the face with very little or very quick contact, both on the perimeter as well as along the line. Though I will pay closer attention now.

That's a great question. I can't say for sure, but you're right that it seems to draw a flag much quicker. To be completely honest I'm not sure why that is.