Nice followup by Thomas George who interviewed Bowlen last week about McDaniels

[Tned]

Here's a taste, but there's much more to the article. Check it out.


Of course, over McDaniels' two seasons in Denver he ran off Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Tony Scheffler and Peyton Hillis. That is a ton of talent that might have helped him avoid his 5-17 finish in his last 22 games. And the recent taping scandal certainly tainted him and the franchise.

Several Broncos players and coaches told me that this coach's in-game knowledge is superior. But his managing skills -- of players and people, of even practices -- was subpar. A Bill Belichick disciple, he sounds every bit like the young Belichick that was fired in Cleveland in 1996.

One Broncos player, requesting anonymity, said: "We became all business and less family-oriented as a team. Some coaches, you hear what they are saying but you don't take it all in. That began to happen. He was very hands on and did a lot of yelling. Guys prefer a coach who lets his assistants do more of that and he oversees things. He had a tough time really knowing how to reach players. We know as players you still have to go out there and play football and win. That's on us. But the way we were playing and the way we were responding, that wasn't a good combination."

Read full article here: http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/12/08/josh-mcdaniels-broncos-went-down-fighting-to-the-bitter-end/

[Dzone]

Excellent article. thanks

[TXBRONC]

Good article thanks Tned!

Bowlen did talk himself into circle or at least it kind appears that but I think there is more to McDaniels being fired than we really. If was all about fan reaction McDaniels could have been gone two or three weeks ago.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Good article thanks Tned!

Bowlen did talk himself into circle or at least it kind appears that but I think there is more to McDaniels being fired than we really. If was all about fan reaction McDaniels could have been gone two or three weeks ago.

More than likely the firing came when it did because the Broncos were officially eliminated from the playoffs after the KC game. I don't think the firing would have come unless/until the Broncos were eliminated from the playoffs.

[turftoad]

More than likely the firing came when it did because the Broncos were officially eliminated from the playoffs after the KC game. I don't think the firing would have come unless/until the Broncos were eliminated from the playoffs.

That and the Spygate thingy Carol.

[TXBRONC]

More than likely the firing came when it did because the Broncos were officially eliminated from the playoffs after the KC game. I don't think the firing would have come unless/until the Broncos were eliminated from the playoffs.

I doubt it because Bowlen had said he was going to wait see what happened over the last five games. There is more to it than just this particular loss. Going with that scenario means Bowlen pretty much had his mind up before the game. If that was case why wait until Monday evening? The could have done it first thing Monday morning before McDaniels gave his usual press conference.

[Ravage!!!]

I doubt it. Because Bowlen had said he was going to wait see what happened over the last five games. There is more to it than just this particular loss. Going with scenario means Bowlen pretty much had his mind up before the game. If that was case why wait until Monday evening? The could have done it first thing Monday morning before McDaniels gave his usual press conference.

I think some could be right, when observing that the statement that McDaniels made about NOT starting Tebow for the rest of the year, may have been one TOOOOOO many "stubborn" stances that McDaniels took. Bowlen was probably ready for Tebow to get on the field, like the rest. McDaniels made the statement,and that probably led to some discussions.

[TXBRONC]

I think some could be right, when observing that the statement that McDaniels made about NOT starting Tebow for the rest of the year, may have been one TOOOOOO many "stubborn" stances that McDaniels took. Bowlen was probably ready for Tebow to get on the field, like the rest. McDaniels made the statement,and that probably led to some discussions.

I think it's possible that McDaniels resistance to starting Tebow may have been the final straw but at the same time Bowlen is going to let Studesville as to who starts. I also add that while Studesville said Orton is the starter he at very least left the door open for Tebow to get more playing time the very least.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I will always think it was no coincidence that McD had a presser saying he was gonna stay the course...
and not play Tebow.

That is unacceptable.. and Pat realized it.
McD was putting his own interests above the team interests.

I will never be convicned that was not the final straw that broke the camels back.

It was what, an hour and a half later, that Josh was unexpectadly on the street?

Too much to be a co-incidence.

[TXBRONC]

I will always think it was no coincidence that McD had a presser saying he was gonna stay the course...
and not play Tebow.

That is unacceptable.. and Pat realized it.
McD was putting his own interests above the team interests.

I will never be convicned that was not the final straw that broke the camels back.

It was what, an hour and a half later, that Josh was unexpectadly on the street?

Too much to be a co-incidence.

I thought the news conference was in the morning? :confused:

[turftoad]

More than likely the firing came when it did because the Broncos were officially eliminated from the playoffs after the KC game. I don't think the firing would have come unless/until the Broncos were eliminated from the playoffs.

And maybe because McD's HIGH POWERED OFFENSE couldn't even put up a TD vs KC.

[TXBRONC]

And maybe because McD's HIGH POWERED OFFENSE couldn't even put up a TD vs KC.

But this still begs the question How do you square McDaniel be allowed to give his usual press conferance and then getting fired afterwards? In his press conference he still answered everything as though he planned to be on sideline this Sunday.

[shank]

But this still begs the question How do you square McDaniel be allowed to give his usual press conferance and then getting fired afterwards? In his press conference he still answered everything as though he planned to be on sideline this Sunday.

totally. they should have announced that he was fired over the stadium's sound system before he left the field.

[BigSarge87]

Who cares why it happened or why it happened when it did. Dude is gone. Let's get this offseason going.

[jhildebrand]

But this still begs the question How do you square McDaniel be allowed to give his usual press conferance and then getting fired afterwards? In his press conference he still answered everything as though he planned to be on sideline this Sunday.

I am with PainterDave. I posted immediately after the firing word I had was Bowlen wanted to see some Tebow on Sunday's loss to KC and expected him to start in AZ.

Bowlen's mind was in no way made up until after McDaniels' presser and his complete refusal to play Tebow. I think there were discussions to prepare Tebow to start and McD refused. That did him in and Bowlen had seen enough.

I am not saying the Tebbow situation is the only just the final less than 5 days after the Spygate story broke.

[Elevation inc]

And maybe because McD's HIGH POWERED OFFENSE couldn't even put up a TD vs KC.

correction orton couldn't get the offense to put up a TD because he kept throwing it in double and triple coverage to lloyd only..depsite having numerous WR's wide open every play underneath.....a OL that was balling and a run game that was dominant...some people always say give orton a run game and defense and it will be magical.......well he had both in full force last sunday and he choked like a little chump....and once lloyd was taken out by stellar DB play and double covreage orton looked like the chump he is becasue he didnt have lloyd bailing his wack ass throws out with circus catches like previous games....

i laugh at people saying orton gives us the best chance to win.....honestly I would say at this point our OL and moreno give us a better shot.....

[Northman]

Here's a taste, but there's much more to the article. Check it out.



Read full article here: http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/12/08/josh-mcdaniels-broncos-went-down-fighting-to-the-bitter-end/

Excellent article.

[Northman]

More than likely the firing came when it did because the Broncos were officially eliminated from the playoffs after the KC game. I don't think the firing would have come unless/until the Broncos were eliminated from the playoffs.

I think your right. I think Bowlen and Ellis truly believed that somehow McD could win out and when that didnt happen a move had to be made in their eyes.

[Tned]

Excellent article.

Would you expect anything less from one of my posts... ;)

[turftoad]

totally. they should have announced that he was fired over the stadium's sound system before he left the field.

Would have been the biggest cheers of the year.

[TXBRONC]

I am with PainterDave. I posted immediately after the firing word I had was Bowlen wanted to see some Tebow on Sunday's loss to KC and expected him to start in AZ.

Bowlen's mind was in no way made up until after McDaniels' presser and his complete refusal to play Tebow. I think there were discussions to prepare Tebow to start and McD refused. That did him in and Bowlen had seen enough.

I am not saying the Tebbow situation is the only just the final less than 5 days after the Spygate story broke.

Absolutely, what happen in the new conference was just the end of the trail so to speak.

[Northman]

Would you expect anything less from one of my posts... ;)

You crack me up. You've been pretty chipper lately. :D

[scott.475]

Some of the guys on NFLN were speculating that McD may have gone to Pat asking to know what his status for the next year was going to be, and that if he came across as saying "I need to know because I can't lead this team without knowing what is going on with me" would have been enough to make Pat say "Alright kid, see ya". Pretty sure that was just speculation on their part, but maybe they had some insider info.

Anyway, whatever brought it on, it sure happened mighty fast.

[Cugel]

But this still begs the question How do you square McDaniel be allowed to give his usual press conferance and then getting fired afterwards? In his press conference he still answered everything as though he planned to be on sideline this Sunday.

Reportedly Ellis and Bowlen met for hours debating what to do and that Bowlen resisted making a move.

This doesn't square with Pat having made his decision Monday night. But, he may simply have decided to wait until that evening to announce it for some reason.

Or perhaps mentally he's not all there. I have no idea.

He might simply have BECOME convinced over the course of Monday that the change had to be made NOW and not at season's end as he probably planned.

The progressive unraveling of the fan-base, the disunity and disloyalty of the coaches may simply have reached a breaking point.

Clearly it was the right move. If Bowlen had decided NOT to bring McDaniels back for another season now was the best time to make a move.

Now all the pressure is off. The players can just go out and play. The season is already lost. It's a pure "salary drive" for both players and coaches. They can make things loose and fun again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the team play MUCH better on Sunday than they have other than the Kansas City game now that the weight of indecision is off their shoulders. They've got nothing more to lose -- season over and coach fired.

Why not go out there and have some FUN playing football again? Football is supposed to be fun after all that's why people sacrifice so much to play it!

[arapaho2]

i nwas in DIA today and a older man walked up to me and said are you a die hard brnco fan...i say yes i am...hethen starts to talk about mcdanials and the fireing

so i said well i wanted him gone but its strange right after he endorsed him for next year...he suddenly fires him, and so there must be more to it

he said im gonna tell you why he was let go...josh went to bowlen and asked him...am i going to be here next year...because the team needs to know this...if i am gone after the season they will not listen to me anymore for the last four games ...if i have a job then they must understand im still the coach...and so since bowlen had his mind made up anyway, that he was gone after the season,, josh stateing he basicaly lost the team just forced him to dismiss him now in order to give the team some life

i dont know who he was...but thats what he said

[Tned]

i nwas in DIA today and a older man walked up to me and said are you a die hard brnco fan...i say yes i am...hethen starts to talk about mcdanials and the fireing

so i said well i wanted him gone but its strange right after he endorsed him for next year...he suddenly fires him, and so there must be more to it

he said im gonna tell you why he was let go...josh went to bowlen and asked him...am i going to be here next year...because the team needs to know this...if i am gone after the season they will not listen to me anymore for the last four games ...if i have a job then they must understand im still the coach...and so since bowlen had his mind made up anyway, that he was gone after the season,, josh stateing he basicaly lost the team just forced him to dismiss him now in order to give the team some life

i dont know who he was...but thats what he said

Apparently some of the guys on NFL Network were 'speculating' that that might have been what happened. He probably saw or heard about their speculation.


Reportedly Ellis and Bowlen met for hours debating what to do and that Bowlen resisted making a move.

This doesn't square with Pat having made his decision Monday night. But, he may simply have decided to wait until that evening to announce it for some reason.

Or perhaps mentally he's not all there. I have no idea.

He might simply have BECOME convinced over the course of Monday that the change had to be made NOW and not at season's end as he probably planned.

The progressive unraveling of the fan-base, the disunity and disloyalty of the coaches may simply have reached a breaking point.


I assume you meant Sunday night above.

Actually, I think it could square. Ellis said Bowlen decided Sunday night, it was time to make the move. While I would normally expect the firing to happen first thing Monday morning with McD's press conference cancelled and a press conference about the firing held in its place.

However, I can see reasons why they didn't do it that way. The two primary are:


Needing to talk with lawyers Monday morning about whether or not they could fire McDaniels for cause based on the Spygate II stuff.

Needing to decide who would be the best candidate for interim head coach.


If they really did decide Sunday night, they might have wanted to take some time to address those two items, plus possibly others that haven't occurred to us, before making the announcement.

[TXBRONC]

Apparently some of the guys on NFL Network were 'speculating' that that might have been what happened. He probably saw or heard about their speculation.



I assume you meant Sunday night above.

Actually, I think it could square. Ellis said Bowlen decided Sunday night, it was time to make the move. While I would normally expect the firing to happen first thing Monday morning with McD's press conference cancelled and a press conference about the firing held in its place.

However, I can see reasons why they didn't do it that way. The two primary are:


Needing to talk with lawyers Monday morning about whether or not they could fire McDaniels for cause based on the Spygate II stuff.

Needing to decide who would be the best candidate for interim head coach.


If they really did decide Sunday night, they might have wanted to take some time to address those two items, plus possibly others that haven't occurred to us, before making the announcement.

This seems plausible. However, on the point about deciding on interim coach from what was reported it came more like they didn't make a decision made until after McDaniels had been relieved of his coaching responsibilities.

[Tned]

This seems plausible. However, on the point about deciding on interim coach from what was reported it came more like they didn't make a decision made until after McDaniels had been relieved of his coaching responsibilities.

I guess I missed that, because what I have seen is that after the coaching staff was informed that McDaniels was fired, that they immediately asked Studesville to come to Bowlen's office and offered him the job. He asked for some to think about it, and went back to his office, called his wife and thought bout it, and then went and informed the Broncos he would take the job.

[TXBRONC]

I guess I missed that, because what I have seen is that after the coaching staff was informed that McDaniels was fired, that they immediately asked Studesville to come to Bowlen's office and offered him the job. He asked for some to think about it, and went back to his office, called his wife and thought bout it, and then went and informed the Broncos he would take the job.

I was tracking the story on NFLN and on their ticker tape and in the reporting the McDaniels had been relieved of his coaching responsibilities and that they would announce they would have a decision within the next couple of hours on who the interim coach will be. I admit that the translation could be we've got a candidate in mind but we haven't asked him yet.

My orignial point was that I just don't think the loss to the Chiefs in and of itsself is what caused Bowlen to move up his time table on making a decision about McDaniels' future with the team.

[frauschieze]

This seems plausible. However, on the point about deciding on interim coach from what was reported it came more like they didn't make a decision made until after McDaniels had been relieved of his coaching responsibilities.

I still think that idea is crazy. You can be sure they knew exactly who they wanted as interim coach and probably had a second and maybe even a third choice in mind, in case he refused. Can't hire one guy before firing the first, and as you mention in your next post, Studesville needed some time to think it over.

I just think the idea of firing your top guy without having a plan for it, after waiting so long to do it, doesn't seem logical.

[broncofaninfla]

Being it seems that Mcd was fired before an interim coach was chosen, I can't help but think a meeting took place with Mcd, Ellis and Bowlen and they didn't care for what he had to say. A decision was made at that time and the rest is history.

[robert ethan]

Actually what happened is that one of the dice they were throwing rolled off the end of the table and under the sofa. Bowlen, being feeble of mind and body, was unable to bend over to look for it. Joe Boy Ellis, being chronically inept and lazy, took forever to locate it. It was well into the afternoon by the time they saw which number had come up on the die.

[Cugel]

Actually what happened is that one of the dice they were throwing rolled off the end of the table and under the sofa. Bowlen, being feeble of mind and body, was unable to bend over to look for it. Joe Boy Ellis, being chronically inept and lazy, took forever to locate it. It was well into the afternoon by the time they saw which number had come up on the die.

Well, that's not totally implausible. :laugh:

I wouldn't be surprised at any news coming out of Dove Valley these days. . . even that Bowlen wanted to wait and consult his astrologer before making the move.

Rich people do more weird sh** than you can imagine. John Lennon had a Tarot Card reader (named John Green) as his financial adviser for the last 7 years of his life! He and Yoko'd get tarot readings on every proposed investment before they would make a move. :rolleyes:

[Ravage!!!]

Well, that's not totally implausible. :laugh:

I wouldn't be surprised at any news coming out of Dove Valley these days. . . even that Bowlen wanted to wait and consult his astrologer before making the move.

Rich people do more weird sh** than you can imagine. John Lennon had a Tarot Card reader (named John Green) as his financial adviser for the last 7 years of his life! He and Yoko'd get tarot readings on every proposed investment before they would make a move. :rolleyes:

Well. I'm not so sure I would use John Lennon as a representative for many people. :lol:

[slim]

Well, that's not totally implausible. :laugh:

I wouldn't be surprised at any news coming out of Dove Valley these days. . . even that Bowlen wanted to wait and consult his astrologer before making the move.

Rich people do more weird sh** than you can imagine. John Lennon had a Tarot Card reader (named John Green) as his financial adviser for the last 7 years of his life! He and Yoko'd get tarot readings on every proposed investment before they would make a move. :rolleyes:

I guess tarot cards can't predict death :noidea:

[topscribe]

I don't know . . . when they average 7 yards a carry in the first quarter and
then they all but abandon the run, it makes me wonder how much in-game
knowledge was involved . . .

-----

[Tned]

I still think that idea is crazy. You can be sure they knew exactly who they wanted as interim coach and probably had a second and maybe even a third choice in mind, in case he refused. Can't hire one guy before firing the first, and as you mention in your next post, Studesville needed some time to think it over.

I just think the idea of firing your top guy without having a plan for it, after waiting so long to do it, doesn't seem logical.

Agreed. There is no real indication that they didn't have the interim (along with alternates) lined up.

[jhildebrand]

Rich people do more weird sh** than you can imagine. John Lennon had a Tarot Card reader (named John Green) as his financial adviser for the last 7 years of his life! He and Yoko'd get tarot readings on every proposed investment before they would make a move. :rolleyes:

John Lennon placed the entire family business in the hands of Yoko Ono. John did this in part because he missed out entirely on Julian's childhood and repeated many of the mistakes John's own parents had. John had one goal and that was to be a father to Sean.

Yoko had QUADRUPLED the Lennon's networth prior to his murder.

[jhildebrand]

Being it seems that Mcd was fired before an interim coach was chosen, I can't help but think a meeting took place with Mcd, Ellis and Bowlen and they didn't care for what he had to say. A decision was made at that time and the rest is history.

There have been interviews that stated almost as much. McD was the coach. He had his presser. He ran practice and then was called in to the Principal's office and the rest is history. I don't think they went into Monday planning to fire McD.