If Bowlen wanted New England, then he made the wrong Hire

[eessydo]

Bowlen wanted a franchise that looked and smelled like New England. Unfortunately he went looking to hire in the wrong position to have success. He should have been looking for a strong GM with salary cap knowledge and a keen eye for talent evaluators / team growth.

Lets look at the track record of New England protege GM's vs New England Protege coaches.

General Managers:

Scott Pioli: Kansas City Chiefs. I think we can all agree that they now have talent where talent previously did not exist. They have made good moves, picked great players out of the draft and upgraded positions without giving away the farm.

Thomas Dimitroff: Atlanta Falcons. In the wake of the Bobby Petrino (total failure and was also the GM) defections mid season and a team reeling from the Michael Vick scandal Arthur blank looked to hire a strong GM. Thomas Dimitroff comes in the door and follows the exact same blueprint as Scott Pioli.

Ozzie Newsome: Baltimore Ravens. Since when has Ozzie Newsome done something completely wrong? Solid since 1996.

All of these teams look like they will be winning for years to come. I would look up records since they got there but I am lazy.




NFL Head Coaches:

I think we can say that everyone of them has failed, list below:

Six of Belichick's assistant coaches have become NFL head coaches:
Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns (2005–2008)
Al Groh, New York Jets (2000)
Josh McDaniels, Denver Broncos (2009–2010)
Eric Mangini, New York Jets (2006–2008), Cleveland Browns (2009–present)

*Nick Saban, Miami Dolphins (2005–2006) = NFL failure.........needs to be a totalitarian douchebag over kids that buy his garbage to be a winner.

*Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions (2009–present) = I only consider Schwartz a Belichick disciple in terms of scheming, he learned his head coaching demeanor from good old Tom Coughlin. Debatable, but that is how I see it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hopefully he regains some sense and looks to the right hand men of one of these two individuals that have clearly put together a system that builds football teams in a completely business-like sense. Most coaches that can't separate their passion (see Josh McDaniels) from the groceries that they buy end up making decisions with their heart, and not with a totally objective mind. Some can do it, some have that icy cold business sense when it comes to coaching and grocery shopping, but you don't find very many Bill Parcells out there.

[elsid13]

Jim Schwartz also sent a lot of time in Titans organization under Fisher, so not like he is a Belicheat only guy.

[eessydo]

Jim Schwartz also sent a lot of time in Titans organization under Fisher, so not like he is a Belicheat only guy.

Belicheat only left a small mark on him, defensive creativity. After that he clearly has very little of the mans cold cheating soul.

[rcsodak]

If they had just given him the HC responsibilities alone, with a true GM, I think McD would have been a marvelous HC. Now his growth has been stunted. But who's to say he won't come back down the road and excel, ala Shanny. I've yet to hear any NFL people say he can't coach.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[silkamilkamonico]

Bowlen wanted the next Belichek.

When all is said and done, Belichek will go down as the greatest HC of all time, and rightfully so.

It was just simply a terrible vision, as there will never be another Belichek.

[elsid13]

Bowlen wanted the next Belichek.

When all is said and done, Belichek will go down as the greatest HC of all time, and rightfully so.

It was just simply a terrible vision, as there will never be another Belichek.

Belichek is great coach, but he got extremely luckly to find a HOF QB, just entering his prime and build around. At the end of the it always comes down to talent and having great QB to build around is very important.

[silkamilkamonico]

Belichek is great coach, but he got extremely luckly to find a HOF QB, just entering his prime and build around. At the end of the it always comes down to talent and having great QB to build around is very important.

He was absolutely pivotal in bringing Brady along slowly, letting him develop, and then unleashing him.

I think even more so, he has created a unity there where you sub guy A out for guy B and still get extremely good results. Lose Tom Brady, and throw Cassel in and still win 11 games. Lose Randy Moss? enter Deion Branch. Even Peyton Manning has been struggling when he hasn't had solid WR's.

Belichek has created a winning atmosphere there. In 11 seasons, he has had only 2 years where he failed tro win 10+ games (2000, 2002). Only 1 losing season (his first season).

Just an absolutely amazing run.

[BroncoStud]

He was absolutely pivotal in bringing Brady along slowly, letting him develop, and then unleashing him.

I think even more so, he has created a unity there where you sub guy A out for guy B and still get extremely good results. Lose Tom Brady, and throw Cassel in and still win 11 games. Lose Randy Moss? enter Deion Branch. Even Peyton Manning has been struggling when he hasn't had solid WR's.

Belichek has created a winning atmosphere there. In 11 seasons, he has had only 2 years where he failed tro win 10+ games (2000, 2002). Only 1 losing season (his first season).

Just an absolutely amazing run.

Not dogging BeliCheat, but he didn't win a Super Bowl without stealing signals and he didn't win a thing without Brady.

Come to mention it... Walsh didn't win anything without Montana, Seifert didn't win anything without Young, Shanahan didn't win anything without Elway, Dungy didn't win anything without Manning, Cowher didn't win anything without Big Ben, Sean Peyton didn't win anything without Brees, Johnson didn't win anything without Aikman...

That said, Lovie Smith was being booed relentlessly at home and about to lose his job with Kyle Orton at the helm until McDaniels came along to save the day. Now Lovie is being cheered, the Bears are going to make the playoffs if not win their division, and he has a shot at a Super Bowl. What a difference a QB makes for a coach.

Damn, maybe there's more to these QB guys than people want to admit.

[eessydo]

What???????

Silkamilk, where do you come up with this crap??

I think everyone knows what happened with Tom Brady but you. He was behind Drew Bledsoe and only got inserted into the lineup after Bledsoe got drilled so hard by Mo Lewis that a blood vessel in his chest ruptured.

Let me provide the history to you via Drew Bledsoe's wikipedia entry

Nonetheless, in March 2001, Bledsoe was signed to a then-record ten-year, $103 million contract.[8] Bledsoe did not, however, finish his career with the Patriots, nor even see the opening of the new Gillette Stadium. During the second game of the 2001 season, Bledsoe was hit by New York Jets linebacker Mo Lewis and suffered a sheared blood vessel in his chest. Replacing Bledsoe at quarterback, soon-to-be All-Pro Tom Brady led the Patriots to an eventual Super Bowl championship. Though he never regained his starting role, Bledsoe nevertheless proved integral to his team's playoff run when he replaced a hobbled Brady in the AFC Championship Game against Pittsburgh. Bledsoe, starting from the Steelers 40 yard line, capped a scoring drive with an 11-yard touchdown pass to David Patten to seal a 24-17 victory. In gaining the conference title Bledsoe completed 10 of 21 passes for 102 yards and a touchdown, with no interceptions

You make it sound as if Tom Brady was part of some grand plan of Belichik, which he wasn't. He was a 6th round draft pick that was playing backup to one of the better QB's in the league, nothing more. He got a chance and made the most of it.

It's like some people don't even remember history anymore. Amazing.


He was absolutely pivotal in bringing Brady along slowly, letting him develop, and then unleashing him.

I think even more so, he has created a unity there where you sub guy A out for guy B and still get extremely good results. Lose Tom Brady, and throw Cassel in and still win 11 games. Lose Randy Moss? enter Deion Branch. Even Peyton Manning has been struggling when he hasn't had solid WR's.

Belichek has created a winning atmosphere there. In 11 seasons, he has had only 2 years where he failed tro win 10+ games (2000, 2002). Only 1 losing season (his first season).

Just an absolutely amazing run.

[sneakers]

Thanks Captain Hindsight!



http://captainhindsightsays.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/captain-hindsight1.jpg

[silkamilkamonico]

What???????

Silkamilk, where do you come up with this crap??

Bill Belichek's coaching Bio. You can basically look it up anywhere on the internet. Just google Bill belichek Bio.




I think everyone knows what happened with Tom Brady but you. He was behind Drew Bledsoe and only got inserted into the lineup after Bledsoe got drilled so hard by Mo Lewis that a blood vessel in his chest ruptured.

No. I knew that about Tom Brady. It was also in one of the Bill Belichek's bio I was reading. I'm sure you could find it in Tom Brady's Bio as well. And then when Bledsoe got hurt, Brady replaced him, continued to play when Bledsoe got healthy, and actually won the SuperBowl that year. The rest is history.



Let me provide the history to you via Drew Bledsoe's wikipedia entry

Nonetheless, in March 2001, Bledsoe was signed to a then-record ten-year, $103 million contract.[8] Bledsoe did not, however, finish his career with the Patriots, nor even see the opening of the new Gillette Stadium. During the second game of the 2001 season, Bledsoe was hit by New York Jets linebacker Mo Lewis and suffered a sheared blood vessel in his chest. Replacing Bledsoe at quarterback, soon-to-be All-Pro Tom Brady led the Patriots to an eventual Super Bowl championship. Though he never regained his starting role, Bledsoe nevertheless proved integral to his team's playoff run when he replaced a hobbled Brady in the AFC Championship Game against Pittsburgh. Bledsoe, starting from the Steelers 40 yard line, capped a scoring drive with an 11-yard touchdown pass to David Patten to seal a 24-17 victory. In gaining the conference title Bledsoe completed 10 of 21 passes for 102 yards and a touchdown, with no interceptions

“Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world, can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.” – Michael Scott



You make it sound as if Tom Brady was part of some grand plan of Belichik, which he wasn't. He was a 6th round draft pick that was playing backup to one of the better QB's in the league, nothing more. He got a chance and made the most of it.

uhm, no. I've actually followed Bill Belichek's tenure in New England, which apparently you have not. Brady was a 6th round pick who was merely a backup, and when he was inserted into the starting role, he basically made it impossible to put him back on the bench with his play. The dude won a SuperBowl in his second year in the NFL, and his first year starting some games.

Also, Belichek brought him along very slowly and let him develop into the QB he is today. Anyone know knows anything about football can see that. The dude didn't have his first 4,000 yards until his 6th year in the league. The dude didn't throw 30+ TD's until his 8th year in the league. He started out as a game managing QB and progressively grew into the offensive monster he is today. He was not that statoistical machine right away.



It's like some people don't even remember history anymore. Amazing.

Perhaps the histroy should come from a much more reliable source then wikipedia, the online encyclopedia that anybody can use.

[BroncoStud]

At one point Belichek told Brady that if he didn't bulk up at least 15 pounds and improve his mobility he would not make the roster again next season.

As far as a masterplan with Brady, doubt it. It was a chance hit on Drew Bledsoe that allowed the Patriots to win a Super Bowl. They were mediocre with Drew at QB but foolishly gave him a MEGA contract. If Brady didn't prove to be the QB he did, the Patriots were up Shit Creek.

Like I said, the Patriots and their success are tied to 2 things:

1. Stealing signals
2. Tom Brady

Without EITHER, that franchise has no Super Bowl victories.

[BigDaddyBronco]

At one point Belichek told Brady that if he didn't bulk up at least 15 pounds and improve his mobility he would not make the roster again next season.

As far as a masterplan with Brady, doubt it. It was a chance hit on Drew Bledsoe that allowed the Patriots to win a Super Bowl. They were mediocre with Drew at QB but foolishly gave him a MEGA contract. If Brady didn't prove to be the QB he did, the Patriots were up Shit Creek.

Like I said, the Patriots and their success are tied to 2 things:

1. Stealing signals
2. Tom Brady

Without EITHER, that franchise has no Super Bowl victories.


Uh, Tom Brady was a game manager at the beginning of his career. That first SB team was carried by by NE's defense and a sure footed Adam Vinatieri. I'm not saying he wasn't good, he just wasn't doing what he is doing today.

[BroncoStud]

Uh, Tom Brady was a game manager at the beginning of his career. That first SB team was carried by by NE's defense and a sure footed Adam Vinatieri. I'm not saying he wasn't good, he just wasn't doing what he is doing today.

No, but his drive to win the game was as clutch as any I can think of in a Super Bowl. He wasn't Tom Brady that we know today that shred defenses but he was a clutch and capable player.

[eessydo]

He was absolutely pivotal in bringing Brady along slowly, letting him develop, and then unleashing him.


It is amazing how you can make statements then totally disregard them in your next point when someone points out how ridiculous it is.




“Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world, can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.” – Michael Scott

Perhaps the histroy should come from a much more reliable source then wikipedia, the online encyclopedia that anybody can use.

OK, so you validate my information that I posted with Bill Bilechiks bio, and then you claim the source of my information is unreliable?

Contradiction anyone?

I didn't need Bilechiks bio or Brady's either to know that is what happened, as I saw it with my own two eyes. I just put an article in there to show how incredibly ridiculous that statement was.

Just so you understand Bilechik didn't do anything slowly. He inserted Brady and ran the same offense.

In fact it is proven even more ridiculous when you look at his numbers that season, throwing for almost 3000 yards that year (http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/profile?id=BRA371156). There was no slowly to it. THat fell just below the NFL average for passing that year (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2001/). There running game was just above average.

Defense was definitely the hallmark of that team, but to say they just handed the ball off and didn't really give brady anything complex in his offensive passing game is just not true.

You make it seem as if there was some sort of grooming going on to replace Drew Bledsoe, and that Brady was groomed for the role. No such thing happened.

I can tell you what it was, Dumb Effing Luck, because if Brady didn't pan out Bledsoe would have still been the starter and Brady would be a nobody.

[BroncoStud]

I agree, it was dumb luck for the Patriots. Bledsoe had just gotten a HUGE contract, Tom Brady wasn't even a thought when the Patriots paid Drew $100 million for 10 years, by that logic Brady would have been groomed to take over the job in 2011, next year.

How many Super Bowls do the Patriots win if Bledsoe doesn't nearly die getting hit? My guess is ZEEEERRRRROOOOO.

[silkamilkamonico]

It is amazing how you can make statements then totally disregard them in your next point when someone points out how ridiculous it is.

Uhm, no. My statements about Brady have been right all along. You basically took my initial statent and then created some tangent argument that had had absolutely no correlation to mine. If you 'd like to make an argument, feel free, but don't change somebody elses.





OK, so you validate my information that I posted with Bill Bilechiks bio, and then you claim the source of my information is unreliable?

I didn't say anything about it being "unreliable". Where are you even going with this one?



Contradiction anyone?

Reading comprehension anyone?




I didn't need Bilechiks bio or Brady's either to know that is what happened, as I saw it with my own two eyes. I just put an article in there to show how incredibly ridiculous that statement was.

Just so you understand Bilechik didn't do anything slowly. He inserted Brady and ran the same offense.


Uhm no. The offense evolved from a short passing/screens scheme to a downfiled scheme when Brady was ready, thus, he most certainly did do it slowly. And anyone who bothered watching the Brady early in his career knows that over half of his passes were screens and short hook routes. It was not until Brady was ready to throw downfiled on a more consistent basis that Belichek allowed him too. Your statement of running the "same offense" is utterly ridiculous.



In fact it is proven even more ridiculous when you look at his numbers that season, throwing for almost 3000 yards that year (http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/profile?id=BRA371156). There was no slowly to it. THat fell just below the NFL average for passing that year (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2001/). There running game was just above average.

In fact, your statement is proven even more ridiculous when your trying to compare "almost 3000 yards" to the 4,000 yard giant he became in his 6th year.

What's next? Are you going to argue that there isn't much difference from 188 ypg and 250 ypg too?

Brady went from a below average passer in terms of yards to an elite giant over the course of 6 years. That shows how even more ridiculous your statement is, from he inserted Brady and ran the same offense. The evolution of Brady's style couldn't be more evident throughout his career.



Defense was definitely the hallmark of that team, but to say they just handed the ball off and didn't really give brady anything complex in his offensive passing game is just not true.

Brady averaged 190 yards a game his first year. The dude did not even average 200 yards. Belichek simply asked Brady to not lose the game, and make a drive in the end or key moments in the game, which won the SuperBowl.



You make it seem as if there was some sort of grooming going on to replace Drew Bledsoe, and that Brady was groomed for the role. No such thing happened.

No, there was no grooming for the role. I never said he was "groomed" for the role. Again you're being ridiculous and trying to spin my initial argument. My exact statement was "he was pivotal in bringing Brady along slowly, letting him develop, then unleashing him", and that is quite evident to anyone who followed Brady's career. Brady's avg his first 3 years starting wasn't even at 7.0. it wasn't until his 4th year starting when his avg catapulted up to almost 8.0 yards.

He most certainly did NOT throw him in their initially and ask him to throw the ball downfiled or make plays, he developed him into that, and now Brady has been unleashed into the statistical monster he is today. He most certainly was not "groomed" for the position, nor was he probably ever thought of as a future starter up until the point Bledsoe got hurt.

[WTE]

You make it sound as if Tom Brady was part of some grand plan of Belichik, which he wasn't. He was a 6th round draft pick that was playing backup to one of the better QB's in the league, nothing more. He got a chance and made the most of it.

It's like some people don't even remember history anymore. Amazing.

You have absolutely no idea about what happened in New England.

During Brady's rookie year Belichick kept four active qb's on his roster because he was afraid another team would claim Brady if he exposed him to the practice squad. When was the last time a coach kept four qb's on the active roster? I don't remember any.

Brady was initially 4th on the depth chart behind John Freisz and Michael Bishop. However, it was during his rookie year that Brady jumped over Freisz and Bishop and was the # 2 guy. His rookie year, not his 2nd year when Bledsoe got hurt.

Bledsoe was never Belichick's guy. Bledsoe didn't have a passion for the game, he didn't study film like he should have and he couldn't read defenses properly. All things that Brady could do. Belichick recognized that right away. Brady was part of Belichick's grand plan all along.

[WTE]

Like I said, the Patriots and their success are tied to 2 things:

1. Stealing signals
2. Tom Brady



Actually, the Patriots success is primarily tied to three things.

1. Bill Belichick
2. Tom Brady
3. Ernie Adams

Nobody in the media talks about how important Ernie Adams is to Belichick and the Patriots because they don’t understand him. Adams is a master at studying film, breaking down an opponent and developing a strong game-plan. He is a genius with using statistical analysis and probability to determine the most likely outcomes. Ernie Adams is probably the greatest at using stats than anybody in the history of the NFL.


Uhm, no. My statements about Brady have been right all along.




I can vouch for that. Everything you have stated is fact. Everything eessydoo has stated is completely ridiculous.