Is Pat Bowlen sold on Tebow?

[sneakers]

What if he hires a coach that doesn't think Tebow is worth more than a hill of beans? :shocked:

[topscribe]

I believe Mr. Bowlen is sold on winning.

I can't imagine that he cares who's at the steering wheel, as long as they win . . .

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[sneakers]

I believe Mr. Bowlen is sold on winning.

I can't imagine that he cares who's at the steering wheel, as long as they win . . .

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But we will have at least 40 broncosforums members we will never see again!

[topscribe]

But we will have at least 40 broncosforums members we will never see again!

I doubt that. I don't believe there is that much bandwagon around here.
Besides, that's all most of us care about, too. If the Broncos were 9-3,
do you think most of us would care who is playing QB or any other position?
If the Broncos win, fans stay. If they lose, the bandwagon fans leave. Simple.

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[underrated29]

No coach is just going to say the guy is not worth a dam and go from there...


They will see what he has. I am sure any coach with any head on his shoulders will play tebow and not just toss him in the trash. I am not sure why so many broncos fans think that would happen. But then again, things dont always make sense.

[silkamilkamonico]

What if he hires a coach that doesn't think Tebow is worth more than a hill of beans? :shocked:

I could only hope.

[horsepig]

Pluuuheeeasse let Tebow play!

I happen to think he's got that "it" factor and will be a very good QB. Just my opinion and I'd like to see him play some to at least get a looksee. I've seen enough of "Ortenary' to last quite a while.

[horsepig]

Just want to break 800!

[BroncoWave]

I could only hope.

I don't understand why you want a coach to just dismiss our first round QB. Would you not rather see what he has instead of just shipping him out? And spare me the "oh I already know he is going to suck" bullshit. You don't know any more than anyone else how he's going to pan out.

I love how so many people have bitched about McD being stubborn and bullheaded though and now you are suggesting our new coach be stubborn and bullheaded by not even giving Tebow a chance.

What if he looks great in these last 4 games? Are you going to at least give him a chance or stubbornly stick to your guns?

[CrazyHorse]

Then he'll be traded for a hill of beans.

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't understand why you want a coach to just dismiss our first round QB. Would you not rather see what he has instead of just shipping him out? And spare me the "oh I already know he is going to suck" bullshit. You don't know any more than anyone else how he's going to pan out.

I love how so many people have bitched about McD being stubborn and bullheaded though and now you are suggesting our new coach be stubborn and bullheaded by not even giving Tebow a chance.

What if he looks great in these last 4 games? Are you going to at least give him a chance or stubbornly stick to your guns?

Dude, I already know that Tebow will suck. Deal with it.

[topscribe]

Dude, I already know that Tebow will suck. Deal with it.

I don't know that. But one thing I do wonder about is whether McDaniels was
afraid to play Tebow because of what he saw in practice. As I mentioned
before, he didn't allow Tebow even late in the blowout games. And during the
Tame Horses plays, a pass was never called for Tebow. That makes me kind
of nervous that another #1 may have been blown. Guess we'll see soon
enough . . .

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[BroncoWave]

Dude, I already know that Tebow will suck. Deal with it.

And you are full of shit. If you are such a genius judge of NFL talent why aren't you employed by any team?

To say you know for sure a player will suck is about an arrogant a thing as you can say. You have NO way of knowing that until he gets his shot.

I guess you are going to try to tell me you know more than the Super Bowl winning head coaches who have said they think he will be good?

[silkamilkamonico]

And you are full of shit. If you are such a genius judge of NFL talent why aren't you employed by any team?

To say you know for sure a player will suck is about an arrogant a thing as you can say. You have NO way of knowing that until he gets his shot.

I guess you are going to try to tell me you know more than the Super Bowl winning head coaches who have said they think he will be good?



LMAO

Oh you guys are too easy sometimes. I thought it was quite evident from my previous posting about Tebow, and maybe even my initial comment in this thread, that I'm simply just not a fan of him. That's all. I don't know he's going to bomb just like the next idiot doesn't know he's going to the HoF.

I'm just not a fan of the guy. But hey, if you want to sit here and argue an opinion, there's a strong possibility that I just might out live you.

[BroncoWave]

LMAO

Oh you guys are too easy sometimes. I thought it was quite evident from my previous posting about Tebow, and maybe even my initial comment in this thread, that I'm simply just not a fan of him. That's all. I don't know he's going to bomb just like the next idiot doesn't know he's going to the HoF.

I'm just not a fan of the guy. But hey, if you want to sit here and argue an opinion, there's a strong possibility that I just might out live you.

If you had said, "it is my opinion that Tebow will suck", I wouldn't have said anything. You said "I know he is going to suck" though. That's not giving an opinion. That's just being an ass and I'm going to call you out on that.

It just confuses me that you WANT the next head coach to dump him without even giving him a chance. That would be such a stubborn and irresponsible thing to do it's not even funny.

[silkamilkamonico]

If you had said, "it is my opinion that Tebow will suck", I wouldn't have said anything. You said "I know he is going to suck" though. That's not giving an opinion. That's just being an ass and I'm going to call you out on that.

It just confuses me that you WANT the next head coach to dump him without even giving him a chance. That would be such a stubborn and irresponsible thing to do it's not even funny.

Oh wow, there isn't one person here who starts a post saying "my opinion is...". That's just childish. You seem like a rational mind most of the time.

Please tell me you didn't honestly think that I was playing Nostradamus.

[BroncoWave]

Oh wow, there isn't one person here who starts a post saying "my opinion is...". That's just childish. You seem like a rational mind most of the time.

Please tell me you didn't honestly think that I was playing Nostradamus.

That's how it appeared. I can't read minds. :noidea:

[topscribe]

Oh wow, there isn't one person here who starts a post saying "my opinion is...". That's just childish. You seem like a rational mind most of the time.

Please tell me you didn't honestly think that I was playing Nostradamus.

I started with "I don't know that," and later used the verb "may" . . .

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[PAINTERDAVE]

I think Josh was fired, among other reasons,
because he refused to play Tebow in these last throwaway games.

I think Bowlen likes the upside of Tebow... if he is at all a decent QB.

I doubt seriously that Bowlen will hire a head coach who says...
"I am not gonna play Tebow. I think I'll trade him."

It just makes no sense.
Pat is NOT gonna hire anyone who does not want to use Tebow.
__________________

[silkamilkamonico]

I started with "I don't know that," and later used the verb "may" . . .

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You are truly one of a kind Tops!

[topscribe]

I think Josh was fired, among other reasons,
because he refused to play Tebow in these last throwaway games.

I think Bowlen likes the upside of Tebow... if he is at all a decent QB.

I doubt seriously that Bowlen will hire a head coach who says...
"I am not gonna play Tebow. I think I'll trade him."

It just makes no sense.
Pat is NOT gonna hire anyone who does not want to use Tebow.
__________________

And my opinion is that you're dreaming, Painter. Mr. Bowlen is no Jerry Jones.
What doesn't made sense to me is that he would require the present or
future coach to play, or refrain from playing, anybody. In the 27 years he's
been here (IIRC), he has never done that, to my knowledge. It just isn't in
his makeup. He has been a hands off owner from the start . . .

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[BroncoBJ]

I think Josh was fired, among other reasons,
because he refused to play Tebow in these last throwaway games.

I think Bowlen likes the upside of Tebow... if he is at all a decent QB.

I doubt seriously that Bowlen will hire a head coach who says...
"I am not gonna play Tebow. I think I'll trade him."

It just makes no sense.
Pat is NOT gonna hire anyone who does not want to use Tebow.
__________________

You can always lie and say you see Tebow in your future plans. Then decide to trade him after your named the coach :lol:

I would like to see Tebow be the future. A classy guy, plays with passion, and heart, and everything you want. I just hope it all translates to him being a good pro QB. Tebow wants to prove people wrong.

Hopefully we use Tebow this season. Season is over with so I wanna see what he can do.

[Lancane]

In all honesty, I think the next four games will be used to evaluate Tebow. After all, we are likely to be in a good position to draft a quarterback that fits Bowlen's ideal athlete at that position.

[TimBuff10]

Tebow needs to either play and show off his potential like the first pick he was, or pack up and hit the road too. This ENTIRE team needs to be rebuilt and it needs to start with a GM that understands that the line is the heart of a team and the run sets up the pass. Anything short of that and the Broncos are stuck in neutral.

[TimTebow15MVP]

rumors were that pat wanted to see more tebow and mcdaniels didnt play him enough. if pat is smart then he realizes that hell have to bring in a coach and gm that believes in tebow. tebow is number one in jersey sells. he has alot of haters but alot of people that believe he can be great. he believes he will be great. so i know pat believes in having a guy like tebow lead and represent what the broncos are all about.

i think the next coach and GM would have to present a plan for what there gonna do with tebow to earn the job.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Tebow needs to either play and show off his potential like the first pick he was, or pack up and hit the road too. This ENTIRE team needs to be rebuilt and it needs to start with a GM that understands that the line is the heart of a team and the run sets up the pass. Anything short of that and the Broncos are stuck in neutral.

Anybody that thinks this entire team needs to be rebuilt is flatout out of his mind.

Just because a coach just got fired doesnt mean you start blowing shit up that aint even broken. the offense is set.

the defense has a awesome LB core and a good foundation with the 3-4. you dont blow all of this up. and throw away every play all over again. :coffee:

[Rick]

We will know this week. If tebow starts or plays a lot then that was the reason or at least final straw.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[TXBRONC]

What if he hires a coach that doesn't think Tebow is worth more than a hill of beans? :shocked:

He was sold on Cutler and that's one of the reasons he hired McDaniels in the first place. But because he gives personnel matters over to the head coach he'll allow them to do what they want to do.

I'm not saying this to bate anyone but what if the new head coach looks at Kyle Orton and says I can win with he either?

[broncosinindy]

What if he hires a coach that doesn't think Tebow is worth more than a hill of beans? :shocked:

It sets the franchise back even further.

[BroncoStud]

I believe Mr. Bowlen is sold on winning.

I can't imagine that he cares who's at the steering wheel, as long as they win . . .

-----

Yeah. I doubt Bowlen, like us, is sold on many players on the roster outside of Champ, Clady, Williams, Royal, and maybe a few others.

How can he be sold on Tebow when the kid hasn't played yet?

[Dzone]

Mark Kiszla on Dan Patrick just GUARANTEED that Tebow will start on Dec 26 against Houston

[Krugan]

My thought is to why Tebow didnt play is pretty much Mcd was worried about his job for the whole year.

I think it had alot to do with, if Tebow came in and played well and accomplished anything, he would take heat for not playing him sooner.

If Tebow came in and flopped, he would take more hit for blowing more picks and paying the kid for first round position.

It was a crappy spot he put himself into, and it wasnt all his fault. If there were a solid controling front office in place this may of all not happened to begin with.

That being said, we need to play the kid now, and that goes against all logic I have. I would rather not see the change at starting QB, let the teaam play out and see if they can grow is my first thought.

Right now I want to see if the kid can do anything, because this high end draft pick might lead to a better option at QB.(Luck)

[PAINTERDAVE]

I wrote earlier that Pat likes the upside of Tebow ..
IF HE IS AT ALL A DECENT QB.

Pat likes Tebow...
the popularity of Tebow
the chance he could be GREAT
the fan base he brings
the jersey sales.


I simply think that IF Tebow pans out at all..
Pat wants him.

If that does not seem plain to anyone...
they are not opening their eyes.

Face it, Tebow detractors...
the kid is gonna get a shot.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Saying the Josh did not play Tebow because he saw
something in practice that told him he is no good...

that is pure speculation.

I have not heard that from any source.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Reading this thread makes me think back to the photo of Tebow signing a Gators Jersey while it's being worn on Bowlen's back (which I've never seen from any owner before). I doubt that Bowlen isn't a Tebow fan or that Tebow won't at least get his shot.

Perhaps the fact that McDaniels was stubbornly against playing him at all even with the season essentially over may have been just one more thing that Bowlen was pissed about. After all, Mcdaniels drafted him in the 1st round and Bowlen is paying his salary. Bowlen probably wants to see if he can get some kind of return on his investment before he just writes Tebow off as a loss.

BTW, I'm thinking Tebow will succeed.

[BroncoStud]

Pat will like the revenue he gets from having Tebow as his starting QB. Now we just have to see if Tebow is worth a crap or not.

[SOCALORADO.]

Pat will like the revenue he gets from having Tebow as his starting QB. Now we just have to see if Tebow is worth a crap or not.

Which will play a LARGE role in who the next HC is.

[Dzone]

Tebowmania=$$$$$$

[Dzone]

At least we will have a $9 Million quarterback backing up Tebow next year...hahahahaha

[tomjonesrocks]

Saying the Josh did not play Tebow because he saw something in practice that told him he is no good...

that is pure speculation.

I have not heard that from any source.

I don't think Tebow will work out, but even if McD said/believed this it wouldn't matter to me. He said the same about Hillis.

Any opinion McD had is utterly worthless anyway...

Tebow needs to play. It's important to see what he's got.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

It will be very telling to see if Tebow starts getting reps with the starters this week at practice.

[TXBRONC]

Yeah. I doubt Bowlen, like us, is sold on many players on the roster outside of Champ, Clady, Williams, Royal, and maybe a few others.

How can he be sold on Tebow when the kid hasn't played yet?

It is rather hard to be sold on a player that hasn't been on the field for but a handful of plays. However, if bought a new car would just pretty just let sit on the street or would you want see if it was really worth what you paid for it?

McDaniels firing right now may very well be linked in part to McDaniels press conference yesterday where he was adamant that Tebow wasn't going to see the field as the starting quarterback period. We get to the end of day and he's gone. We wont know if Tebow was worth the pick and money if he never gets a chance at some serious snaps in a game. People who are against it because he's "too green and needs more experience" are setting up a catch-twenty-two imo. Saying he needs more experience before putting him on the field doesn't because he can't gain experience unless he plays. Here's Dave Kreiger's take from today's DPO.


Team's reputation a victim
By Dave Krieger
The Denver Post
Posted: 12/07/2010 01:00:00 AM MST

Well, Bowlen or his right-hand man, Joe Ellis, might have noticed that the Broncos' interests and McDaniels' just diverged. The coach was fired shortly after a Monday media availability at which he basically said he wouldn't start Tim Tebow the last four games because Kyle Orton still gives the Broncos the best chance to win.

From an organizational standpoint, what's of greater value, a couple of meaningless wins at the end of a lousy season or seeing what you have in your alleged quarterback of the future? It will be interesting to see if the interim coach, Eric Studesville, has a different take on that.

Unfortunately, McDaniels is probably right, although not if Orton plays the way he did in Kansas City. Tebow isn't ready. But his following is such that he's likely to put more fannies in the seats for the last two home games than a team led by Orton, long out of the playoffs, fighting for a fourth or fifth victory.

Read more: Krieger: Team's reputation a victim - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_16794548#ixzz17RQTW9m0
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_16794548

[Dzone]

Tebow will succeed and become the next Michael Vick and Steve Young but in a bigger and tougher body...He will be like a man playing among boys. People will hate having to tackle him...hey, we can fantasize cant we?

[Ravage!!!]

What if he hires a coach that doesn't think Tebow is worth more than a hill of beans? :shocked:

90% of the NFL scouts didn't think Tebow was a good early draft prospect. Our FORMER (yay) coach is the one that made the MISTAKE of using 4 picks (valuable picks at that) to get him. It was probably the DUMBEST move that McDoofus (FINALLY I feel ok about using a nickname for the jerk) made.

Its going to be a tougher job to find a coach that believes Tebow can do the job. There is a reason he hasn't seen the field, while guys like Bradford are lighting it up as a rookie. THere is a reason guys like Bradford can miss nearly and ENTIRE college season, and STILL be taken #1 overall, when Tebow wasn't even rated to be a 1st round pick!

So yeah... I would say that Bowlen may have very well been waiting to see Tebow, but the coaches were telling him that he wasn't ready to be on the field... OR.... Bowlen could see it for himself. I'm sure Bowlen is VERy skeptical of Tebow since we haven't seen anything from him, yet.

[underrated29]

90% of the NFL scouts didn't think Tebow was a good early draft prospect. Our FORMER (yay) coach is the one that made the MISTAKE of using 4 picks (valuable picks at that) to get him. It was probably the DUMBEST move that McDoofus (FINALLY I feel ok about using a nickname for the jerk) made.

Its going to be a tougher job to find a coach that believes Tebow can do the job. There is a reason he hasn't seen the field, while guys like Bradford are lighting it up as a rookie. THere is a reason guys like Bradford can miss nearly and ENTIRE college season, and STILL be taken #1 overall, when Tebow wasn't even rated to be a 1st round pick!

So yeah... I would say that Bowlen may have very well been waiting to see Tebow, but the coaches were telling him that he wasn't ready to be on the field... OR.... Bowlen could see it for himself. I'm sure Bowlen is VERy skeptical of Tebow since we haven't seen anything from him, yet.





Not true at all Rav. And I am not a tebow geek. I dont like florida, nor do I watch college. ALL scouts thought he was an early pick and Quite a few thought he would go in the first round. Somehow all of the sudden-bronco fans think tebow is garbage...........Where the hell did this come from? He looked real good in preseason, every time he was in for us in regular season he scored when in the redzone.


I dont think it will be hard to find a coach that thinks he can do the job since Tebows record clearly as mcdaniels sucked can do the job and did it better than anyone in college ever has.


There is a reason why bradford has seen the field. St. louis does not have another QB, and bradford was by far and away the most polished and QB ready to come out in a while. I doubt anyone except for those few bronco fans who suddenly dont like tebow now that josh is gone are skeptical of him.



Its absurd.

[D1g1tal j1m]

Tebow hasn't had a chance and being a 1st round pick and the most prolific college QB to come out last year he will play in these last few games. Orton is a solid pro and will make himself available to Tebow when he is demoted to backup.
I sense a heavy, heavy dose of the run in these last few games (something our intern coach is highly familiar with) and when you start a rookie QB, the offense become run heavy to protect them.

[TimBuff10]

Anybody that thinks this entire team needs to be rebuilt is flatout out of his mind.

Just because a coach just got fired doesnt mean you start blowing shit up that aint even broken. the offense is set.

the defense has a awesome LB core and a good foundation with the 3-4. you dont blow all of this up. and throw away every play all over again. :coffee:


And if you think this offense is set you flatout don't know football. As for the D, you may think parts of it are awesome but none of it has worked in the last few years. I know some players are good and have value to other teams and that is exactly what you use to rebuild.

There is not one player on this roster who is "untouchable" or even close to that status.

[Lancane]

Listen, Tim Tebow is about as safe as Josh McDaniels was.

But a lot of people are buying into the misconceptions spread by draft and league analysts before last year's annual draft. Tebow has a lot of tangibles that you look for in a pro-quarterback prospect, such as physical toughness, good arm strength, football smarts and a competitive drive. But I mentioned before that he had questionable mechanics; he doesn't plant or set his feet well, needs to learn to turn with his waist more when passing and lower his arm when throwing, accuracy is an issue. And as I've mentioned before, he's not the first to have questionable mechanics coming into the NFL, Joe Montana and Steve Young both had questionable mechanics, some said the same about Michael Vick and Donovan McNabb.

Unfortunately for Tebow, Bowlen is not going to be a patient man. And he's very particular about his ideal quarterback...and fans need to read between the lines in regards to what Pat Bowlen said after he fired McDaniels, "That he wants to get back to Broncos football", that means high powered offensive driven teams with a solid defense. I'd be surprised if Tebow didn't start against Arizona, because right now all eyes are on him at Dove Valley, is he the future? I don't know, neither does the front office, but you can bet your ass that right now, even the veterans will be looking toward him with a keener eye, after all...if he isn't the right quarterback for the job, Denver will be in prime position to nab a quarterback that does fit Bowlen's ideal prospect at that position, whether it's Andrew Luck, Ryan Mallett or Jake Locker.

Don't be surprised if we end up drafting a quarterback anyways, if Tim Tebow doesn't look to be the man, they may try and move him to the tight end position, if he refuses they may look to unload him to someone else, even at the loss of value given up.

This upcoming draft may end up having a good number of prospects that fit Bowlen's tastes in pro quarterbacks, he wanted to retain Jay Cutler, McDaniels had literally destroyed that relationship, when you take that into consideration then you start to get the ideal prospects this year that are similar to both Cutler and Elway that the organization may be targeting in case.

Andrew Luck, Ryan Mallett, Pat Devlin in my mind would be atop that list, followed by Christian Ponder and possibly Ricky Stanzi. Jake Locker is a smaller version of Tim Tebow, so I don't see them taking a chance on him. But Tim Tebow will get a shot to prove he is the future and hopefully he can deliver, fans would love to use our picks on defense, but if he doesn't look to be our future, then Luck and Mallett being right there may be too much to pass over for this organization.

[underrated29]

And if you think this offense is set you flatout don't know football. As for the D, you may think parts of it are awesome but none of it has worked in the last few years. I know some players are good and have value to other teams and that is exactly what you use to rebuild.

There is not one player on this roster who is "untouchable" or even close to that status.



Where exactly do you think we need to improve on offense....TE- yeah we could use a pass catcher...QB- Kyle is servicable and we have TT.......where else.....


I think the offense is pretty dam set, aside from those two positions. One of which can easily be filled through FA or draft, and the other we have a servicable guy and possible future waiting in the wings.

[G_Money]

I swear to god, the next head coach who comes in here and rips out whatever offensive contributors we have and devotes first round picks to replacing them is gonna get a sledgehammer in the nuts from me.

LEAVE.

THE QB POSITION.

ALONE.

Orton is signed through 2011. Tebow is signed through the middle of the decade. Friggin' Quinn is through 2012.

We have quarterbacks on the roster. I happen to think the world of Jake Locker, but how is he a huge upgrade on Tebow? We're not getting Luck, in the same way we wouldn't have gotten Bradford. Mallett? Really? Hang the future on him?

We have a QB who can throw the ball, hand it off, read defenses and not throw picks. Orton is a perfectly serviceable QB for a rebuild. If we want to go for a Locker-type, Tebow is on here.

If we want the best QB in the draft...well, he's unavailable. Drafting QBs high is a good way to blow draftpicks. I know Matty Ice and Unibrow and The Injun are making people rethink that, but they shouldn't.

Luck is very good. Everyone else is a shot at getting Leinart, or Harrington, or Quinn.

We can't afford to waste any more first rounders.

Go with the QBs we have. Orton can pick up an offense well enough to run it in short order, and Tebow can understudy next year. If we decide we don't like Tebow at that point, feel free to try to find a young QB in the 2012 draft or to sign Orton to an extension.

Fix the D first. Fix the blocking scheme. Figure out how much we wanna pay to the WR corps, because Royal and Lloyd are gonna get expensive in short order.

Don't throw ANOTHER QB at the position when he's no better an option than the ones we already have.

Please.

~G

[Day1BroncoFan]

Play Tebow, if he's good keep him, if not trade him.

Pretty simple actually. Why not try him out? Getting rid of him without finding out would be stupid any way you look at it.

[Lancane]

I swear to god, the next head coach who comes in here and rips out whatever offensive contributors we have and devotes first round picks to replacing them is gonna get a sledgehammer in the nuts from me.

LEAVE.

THE QB POSITION.

ALONE.

Orton is signed through 2011. Tebow is signed through the middle of the decade. Friggin' Quinn is through 2012.

We have quarterbacks on the roster. I happen to think the world of Jake Locker, but how is he a huge upgrade on Tebow? We're not getting Luck, in the same way we wouldn't have gotten Bradford. Mallett? Really? Hang the future on him?

We have a QB who can throw the ball, hand it off, read defenses and not throw picks. Orton is a perfectly serviceable QB for a rebuild. If we want to go for a Locker-type, Tebow is on here.

If we want the best QB in the draft...well, he's unavailable. Drafting QBs high is a good way to blow draftpicks. I know Matty Ice and Unibrow and The Injun are making people rethink that, but they shouldn't.

Luck is very good. Everyone else is a shot at getting Leinart, or Harrington, or Quinn.

We can't afford to waste any more first rounders.

Go with the QBs we have. Orton can pick up an offense well enough to run it in short order, and Tebow can understudy next year. If we decide we don't like Tebow at that point, feel free to try to find a young QB in the 2012 draft or to sign Orton to an extension.

Fix the D first. Fix the blocking scheme. Figure out how much we wanna pay to the WR corps, because Royal and Lloyd are gonna get expensive in short order.

Don't throw ANOTHER QB at the position when he's no better an option than the ones we already have.

Please.

~G

Because your not listening to what is being said G, and you have to understand Bowlen. "We will get back to playing Broncos' football", during his time as owner that has always been high powered offenses with defenses that were solid and steadfast, but not great by any means of the imagination. I've said before that Bowlen is an offensive minded owner, he loved Elway, he wanted to keep Cutler, when you look at those two, does any one of the three we have on the roster have those tangibles?

Denver will fix the defense, but don't expect them to try and make it a juggernaut unit, and Orton nor Quinn are really ideal to be the future in a high powered offense, the million dollar question remains the same...is Tebow the future?

[dogfish]

I swear to god, the next head coach who comes in here and rips out whatever offensive contributors we have and devotes first round picks to replacing them is gonna get a sledgehammer in the nuts from me.

LEAVE.

THE QB POSITION.

ALONE.

Orton is signed through 2011. Tebow is signed through the middle of the decade. Friggin' Quinn is through 2012.

We have quarterbacks on the roster. I happen to think the world of Jake Locker, but how is he a huge upgrade on Tebow? We're not getting Luck, in the same way we wouldn't have gotten Bradford. Mallett? Really? Hang the future on him?

We have a QB who can throw the ball, hand it off, read defenses and not throw picks. Orton is a perfectly serviceable QB for a rebuild. If we want to go for a Locker-type, Tebow is on here.

If we want the best QB in the draft...well, he's unavailable. Drafting QBs high is a good way to blow draftpicks. I know Matty Ice and Unibrow and The Injun are making people rethink that, but they shouldn't.

Luck is very good. Everyone else is a shot at getting Leinart, or Harrington, or Quinn.

We can't afford to waste any more first rounders.

Go with the QBs we have. Orton can pick up an offense well enough to run it in short order, and Tebow can understudy next year. If we decide we don't like Tebow at that point, feel free to try to find a young QB in the 2012 draft or to sign Orton to an extension.

Fix the D first. Fix the blocking scheme. Figure out how much we wanna pay to the WR corps, because Royal and Lloyd are gonna get expensive in short order.

Don't throw ANOTHER QB at the position when he's no better an option than the ones we already have.

Please.

~G

amen. . . we spent a high pick on a QB, i'ma start stabbin' fools. . .

[G_Money]

Does going "back to broncos football" mean abandoning the 3-4 then, since we ran a 4-3 the whole time we were good? Does it mean relying on HOF safeties like Lynch and Atwater (and hard-hitters like Dennis Smith before him)? If we're just reconstructing Shanahan's offense, then we'd better hire Kubes to do it.

You believe that the code imbedded in the phrase, "get back to playing Broncos football" means a high-powered offense that Orton and Quinn can't run, with a mediocre D.

Broncos football in the last 15 years actually meant RUNNING the ball with a top-5 attack, not throwing it all over the place. Yeah, the offenses could be considered high-powered and they had some gunslingers back there, but we were a running team with a QB who would kill you once you committed 8 to the box and sold out to stop the run.

Plummer was a statistically great QB because our running game was still monstrous at the time. Griese lasted a long time because the running game made the passing game far easier.

If you think Orton couldn't have QBed some 10-6 seasons with a top-5 running game, I'd have to disagree. "Broncos Football" will probably mean more offense than defense, I agree.

But looking at the talent on the team, it SHOULD. We still have far more offensive talent than defensive. I assumed that Pat Bowlen meant "competing for AFC West titles and playoffs every year" as Broncos football. That he meant the team wouldn't be afraid in the trenches but would be aggressive on both sides of the ball.

That doesn't say anything about a QB to me. I don't see how it rules out Tebow or Orton.

Quinn IMO is ruled out due to douchebaggery, which is not a part of Broncos Football (tm). But I guess we'll see. ;)

~G

[broncogirl7]

I swear to god, the next head coach who comes in here and rips out whatever offensive contributors we have and devotes first round picks to replacing them is gonna get a sledgehammer in the nuts from me.

LEAVE.

THE QB POSITION.

ALONE.

Orton is signed through 2011. Tebow is signed through the middle of the decade. Friggin' Quinn is through 2012.

We have quarterbacks on the roster. I happen to think the world of Jake Locker, but how is he a huge upgrade on Tebow? We're not getting Luck, in the same way we wouldn't have gotten Bradford. Mallett? Really? Hang the future on him?

We have a QB who can throw the ball, hand it off, read defenses and not throw picks. Orton is a perfectly serviceable QB for a rebuild. If we want to go for a Locker-type, Tebow is on here.

If we want the best QB in the draft...well, he's unavailable. Drafting QBs high is a good way to blow draftpicks. I know Matty Ice and Unibrow and The Injun are making people rethink that, but they shouldn't.

Luck is very good. Everyone else is a shot at getting Leinart, or Harrington, or Quinn.

We can't afford to waste any more first rounders.

Go with the QBs we have. Orton can pick up an offense well enough to run it in short order, and Tebow can understudy next year. If we decide we don't like Tebow at that point, feel free to try to find a young QB in the 2012 draft or to sign Orton to an extension.

Fix the D first. Fix the blocking scheme. Figure out how much we wanna pay to the WR corps, because Royal and Lloyd are gonna get expensive in short order.

Don't throw ANOTHER QB at the position when he's no better an option than the ones we already have.

Please.

~G

Agreed...fix the damn defense!!~

[slim]

Because your not listening to what is being said G, and you have to understand Bowlen. "We will get back to playing Broncos' football", during his time as owner that has always been high powered offenses with defenses that were solid and steadfast, but not great by any means of the imagination. I've said before that Bowlen is an offensive minded owner, he loved Elway, he wanted to keep Cutler, when you look at those two, does any one of the three we have on the roster have those tangibles?

Denver will fix the defense, but don't expect them to try and make it a juggernaut unit, and Orton nor Quinn are really ideal to be the future in a high powered offense, the million dollar question remains the same...is Tebow the future?

You are reading way too much into a vague, meaningless PR statement.

[Nomad]

While I agree with Gmoney and dogfish's take about the defense (been screaming for years now), I believe Lancane is right about Denver's (Bowlen's)outlook as far as offense first and defense second! I would love to get a hardnosed, tough defensive minded HC in here and revamp this defense and add a tough run game!! Iw ould love for Denver to surprise me though!!

[Lancane]

You are reading way too much into a vague, meaningless PR statement.

Just like I read too much in that McDaniels would definitely fired no matter the final four games or having drafted Tebow.

Just like I read too much into that Denver was tired of mediocre quarterback play from Plummer and would draft a franchise capable quarterback, even naming Cutler as the likeliest choice.

Just like I read too much into that Bowlen wanted to stay with an offensive minded coach, and said McDaniels would be the likeliest choice to be the next head coach at that time.

Just like I read too much that Denver was sick of second hand running backs and would look to draft a first rounder and named Moreno the likely pick.

...And yes, I also said last year that Denver was more then likely to look at drafting Tebow, while most grumbled about it and said I was full of shit, but I got that with most of the things I mentioned above as well.

And I'm not always right, but I understand this organization and usually those part of it more then people like to admit...I'm not being conceited either, so please don't take it that way. But, I have earned the respect of a lot of posters because I do understand somethings better then others, and have claimed things that have happened more often then not.

[slim]

Just like I read too much in that McDaniels would definitely fired no matter the final four games or having drafted Tebow.

Just like I read too much into that Denver was tired of mediocre quarterback play from Plummer and would draft a franchise capable quarterback, even naming Cutler as the likeliest choice.

Just like I read too much into that Bowlen wanted to stay with an offensive minded coach, and said McDaniels would be the likeliest choice to be the next head coach at that time.

Just like I read too much that Denver was sick of second hand running backs and would look to draft a first rounder and named Moreno the likely pick.

And yes, I also said last year that Denver was more then likely to look at drafting Tebow, while most grumbled about it.

And I'm not always right, but I understand this organization and usually those part of it more then people like to admit...I'm not being conceited either, so please don't take it that way. But, I have earned the respect of a lot of posters because I do understand somethings better then others, and have claimed things that have happened more often then not.

Ms. Cleo, is that you?

[Lancane]

Ms. Cleo, is that you?

Hahaha...no, as far as I know it's not clairavoyance. More like I just see patterns in how certain coaches draft, or add talent. How owners react to certain issues and what they say, I guess the best way to put it is that I can articulate behavior and breakdown the little details to find the answers.

Personally, I would love to see Denver go with a defensive coordinator, I want Ron Rivera...he's no offensive genius that's for sure. But, I also understand Bowlen pretty well, it would be nice if he actually surprised me and went a new direction, that could depend on Elway and what he chooses or advises Pat to do as well.

[G_Money]

I just don't understand why you think Bowlen liking offense means that we would have to draft a QB that suits him.

Cutler suited him fine. We traded that guy. If that was an unforgivable mistake then Bowlen sure waited a long time to get mad about it.

Bowlen is not Al Davis. He doesn't make player personnel calls from on high. If he wants offense, he'll hire a GM who wants to work with an offensive coach, or just hire the offensive coach directly (if we're doing and end-around on the GM position...again...).

And then that coach can decide how he feels about the QBs both on the team and in the draft. How we can call "QB needed in the draft" without knowing what kind of offense we're running strikes me as hubris. Chucky likes Tebow fine. Merrill Hoge hates Tebow, and has lots of support for that.

If we hire a head man from the Merrill Hoge school of thought, then no Tebow is not the guy, but Orton might be.

Luck is never gonna be there when we draft. The non-Luck QBs don't look more like the Elway/Cutler you say Bowlen wants than the QBs we already have. Maybe Devlin, I guess, though he's not a first-rounder.

And I'm just not sure how "We're going back to Broncos football" means "I want a different QB in the draft" to you. I guess we'll just wait and see what the offseason brings us. :) I'll be more than happy to give you props come April if you can parse a sentence that well.

~G

[G_Money]

I *would* expect us to add another offensive head coach. I actually expect something quite like what happened last time: Offensive head coach, respected DC, player evaluator at GM who takes advice from the HC but doesn't report to him.

I think that could have worked out fine. We just added the wrong HC.

~G

[Lancane]

I just don't understand why you think Bowlen liking offense means that we would have to draft a QB that suits him.

Cutler suited him fine. We traded that guy. If that was an unforgivable mistake then Bowlen sure waited a long time to get mad about it.

Bowlen is not Al Davis. He doesn't make player personnel calls from on high. If he wants offense, he'll hire a GM who wants to work with an offensive coach, or just hire the offensive coach directly (if we're doing and end-around on the GM position...again...).

And then that coach can decide how he feels about the QBs both on the team and in the draft. How we can call "QB needed in the draft" without knowing what kind of offense we're running strikes me as hubris. Chucky likes Tebow fine. Merrill Hoge hates Tebow, and has lots of support for that.

If we hire a head man from the Merrill Hoge school of thought, then no Tebow is not the guy, but Orton might be.

Luck is never gonna be there when we draft. The non-Luck QBs don't look more like the Elway/Cutler you say Bowlen wants than the QBs we already have. Maybe Devlin, I guess, though he's not a first-rounder.

And I'm just not sure how "We're going back to Broncos football" means "I want a different QB in the draft" to you. I guess we'll just wait and see what the offseason brings us. :) I'll be more than happy to give you props come April if you can parse a sentence that well.

~G

No, G...now your reading too much into what I said.

I'm simply stating that Pat Bowlen is offensive minded, that has been the bread and butter of this organization under him, and due to that we have to take everything with a grain of salt. Tebow will get a shot, but I guarantee whether or not he plays, that all eyes are on him...especially Bowlen's, and if he and those he trusts don't see what they want in Tim, then Pat will let his staff know, don't think for one second that Bowlen wouldn't be willing to trade Tebow if he felt he wasn't the right choice and draft someone else instead, it wouldn't be the first time...just look at Tommy Maddox, even though we had Elway, Bowlen will not be shy about taking a loss. After all, if Tebow is not the future...then he will not take the blame for having drafted him, the guy just fired will.

We know from what we've seen in the past what Bowlen likes in quarterbacks, if Tebow can transition and looks to be capable to be that then he'll stay and we'll not look at any of the quarterbacks in the draft...but, if Tebow looks to be nothing more then what many said...Bowlen won't give a shit...just ask McDaniels and Shanahan. Remember Bowlen said last year that we were looking at first round quarterbacks as well as other players at different positions, that speaks volumes about him and what he wanted and still wants. I truly believe that Bowlen is upset about the Cutler ordeal, but he had to swallow his pride eventually and back his newly hired head coach, after all...by what we heard, Bowlen was trying any and everything to fix the damage and keep Cutler.

So, am I saying that Denver will draft a quarterback? No, I am not. That would really depend on what happens with Tebow and the reactions we see as time passes, what we hear and see happening in free agency as well as the NFL Combine. Right now, I feel we'll draft a defensive end with our first overall pick, I really believe that. But if Tebow looks to be fodder, then my opinion will quickly change.

;)

[BORDERLINE]

Tebow needs to play plain and simple...
4 games is not enough to see if he is goin to be the broncos future QB
C'mon, alot of first round qb suck there first year in the league

We fans just want to be competitive or at least have hope when we are in close games.
Orton does not give us that, tebow can scramble and make play out of the pocket
in pre-season he looked good so why the hell can't he do it right now...
just give him a shot and an offseason to know he is the guy and we would go from there
fixing the d-line and rejuvinating the secondary should be first on the list though

[underrated29]

And if you think this offense is set you flatout don't know football. As for the D, you may think parts of it are awesome but none of it has worked in the last few years. I know some players are good and have value to other teams and that is exactly what you use to rebuild.

There is not one player on this roster who is "untouchable" or even close to that status.


No, G...now your reading too much into what I said.

I'm simply stating that Pat Bowlen is offensive minded, that has been the bread and butter of this organization under him, and due to that we have to take everything with a grain of salt. Tebow will get a shot, but I guarantee whether or not he plays, that all eyes are on him...especially Bowlen's, and if he and those he trusts don't see what they want in Tim, then Pat will let his staff know, don't think for one second that Bowlen wouldn't be willing to trade Tebow if he felt he wasn't the right choice and draft someone else instead, it wouldn't be the first time...just look at Tommy Maddox, even though we had Elway, Bowlen will not be shy about taking a loss. After all, if Tebow is not the future...then he will not take the blame for having drafted him, the guy just fired will.

We know from what we've seen in the past what Bowlen likes in quarterbacks, if Tebow can transition and looks to be capable to be that then he'll stay and we'll not look at any of the quarterbacks in the draft...but, if Tebow looks to be nothing more then what many said...Bowlen won't give a shit...just ask McDaniels and Shanahan. Remember Bowlen said last year that we were looking at first round quarterbacks as well as other players at different positions, that speaks volumes about him and what he wanted and still wants. I truly believe that Bowlen is upset about the Cutler ordeal, but he had to swallow his pride eventually and back his newly hired head coach, after all...by what we heard, Bowlen was trying any and everything to fix the damage and keep Cutler.

So, am I saying that Denver will draft a quarterback? No, I am not. That would really depend on what happens with Tebow and the reactions we see as time passes, what we hear and see happening in free agency as well as the NFL Combine. Right now, I feel we'll draft a defensive end with our first overall pick, I really believe that. But if Tebow looks to be fodder, then my opinion will quickly change.

;)



and thats all well and good, but I mean seriously, and I am not going to make excuses for TT because I am not jagsbach or anything else. But 4 games as a rookie is pretty pathetic in terms of time to evaluate a player to see how he does....

How many rookie QBs played lights out for their FIRST 4 games on crappy teams. Not many- yes it happens but not often. Like I said I am not making excuses for him if he does not come in and Vick it right away, but at the same time, if what you are saying is accurate. Then bowlen is also going to know this and give this year and probably next year a shot for TT to perform.


How could he realistically judge TT without a HC, without any prior experience, with a gameplan/scheme that might not even be in the books anymore, as we are likely to run the ball a lot...(which sucks because FF playoffs start, i have a bye, but week 15 I will probably face off against the guy with moreno) But that leaves TT not a lot to work with. It is not an accurate way to evaluate and analyze a player.





*****edit- WTF is with that quote at the top of lans post. I didnt quote that, and it is not even from this thread. it is from a different thread. Weird-timbuff i dont know how that got there. Im not responding to you,just Lan.

[G_Money]

I agree about him being an offensive-minded owner. I just don't think that means the first order of business is drafting a QB if Tebow disappoints over the next month, that's all.

If Elway hires Kubiak, his very good friend, and that brings Dennison and the full-time ZBS back...

I dunno, at that point I don't see why QB is our #1 priority. We should be able to put up a fairly serious offense with the players we've got under a Kubiak scheme with Orton OR Tebow. So for me the QB call depends on the head coaching decision first and foremost.

I don't expect a QB, though. If we go back to a 4-3 I could see DE, but since Dumervil would then go back to that position I doubt we'd draft a DE top-5, especially with a potentially deep class of em. I would think it would be a guy like Dareus at DT, personally, to seal the middle of our drafty DL. If we stay in a 3-4 there's no way we go DE, IMO. But I look forward to that debate from December to April. :beer:

~G

[topscribe]

It's final and official: Mr. Bowlen is going to leave it up to Studesville as to
whether or not Tebow plays. Exactly what I expected. As I said, Mr. Bowlen
has been a hands-off owner from the get-go. It's just not in his makeup to
dictate something such as who should and should not start in games . . .

-----

[slim]

I agree about him being an offensive-minded owner. I just don't think that means the first order of business is drafting a QB if Tebow disappoints over the next month, that's all.

If Elway hires Kubiak, his very good friend, and that brings Dennison and the full-time ZBS back...

I dunno, at that point I don't see why QB is our #1 priority. We should be able to put up a fairly serious offense with the players we've got under a Kubiak scheme with Orton OR Tebow. So for me the QB call depends on the head coaching decision first and foremost.

I don't expect a QB, though. If we go back to a 4-3 I could see DE, but since Dumervil would then go back to that position I doubt we'd draft a DE top-5, especially with a potentially deep class of em. I would think it would be a guy like Dareus at DT, personally, to seal the middle of our drafty DL. If we stay in a 3-4 there's no way we go DE, IMO. But I look forward to that debate from December to April. :beer:

~G

G, how would you feel about Rick Dennison as HC w/Kubes as OC?

I kinda like that idea.

[Lancane]

Tebow needs to play plain and simple...
4 games is not enough to see if he is goin to be the broncos future QB
C'mon, alot of first round qb suck there first year in the league

We fans just want to be competitive or at least have hope when we are in close games.
Orton does not give us that, tebow can scramble and make play out of the pocket
in pre-season he looked good so why the hell can't he do it right now...
just give him a shot and an offseason to know he is the guy and we would go from there
fixing the d-line and rejuvinating the secondary should be first on the list though

Most of us agree with you Border, but you have to take into consideration what we know about the staff and front office. And right now, we don't have a clue if were staying with the 3-4 for our base defense or returning to the 4-3, though most hope we're sticking with the 3-4, but that could change.

All the changes will depend on what Bowlen wishes to do, what the new staff sees and feels is best for this organization.

But, defense has usually been second fiddle here in Denver, at least with Bowlen as the owner it has.

[BigDaddyBronco]

G, how would you feel about Rick Dennison as HC w/Kubes as OC?

I kinda like that idea.
Why would Kubes do that? Dennison is his OC in Houston.

I could see the other scenario happening.

[slim]

Why would Kubes do that? Dennison is his OC in Houston.

I could see the other scenario happening.

If Kubes gets fired, he will not get another HC position (at least not right away).

I just think Dennison will make a good HC.

[JaxBroncoGirl]

Well now that the shoe has finally dropped, let us try to be positive in the next 4 games.

Orton nor Tebow will be able to be that effective. Just hope that we can find a good HC and hope things work out for the best for the Broncos.

Moving on now. I do think Tebow should play a little. No harm this season.

[Lancane]

G, how would you feel about Rick Dennison as HC w/Kubes as OC?

I kinda like that idea.

It has a certain irony to it...lol.

So, you're okay with scrapping the spread offensive scheme and returning to the west-coast offensive system? Just asking, because there have been mixed reviews as whether to remain with a spread, go to an option, try a coryell variant offensive scheme...so do you prefer we return to the west-coast offense?

[Ravage!!!]

I hate the spread offensive crap.

But I 'll be honest.. I do NOT want Kubes back as a coach. Maybe as an OC, but this wouldn't thrill me either.

Personally.... I'm hoping w e take a shot at Harbaugh from Stanford.

[slim]

It has a certain irony to it...lol.

So, you're okay with scrapping the spread offensive scheme and returning to the west-coast offensive system? Just asking, because there have been mixed reviews as whether to remain with a spread, go to an option, try a coryell variant offensive scheme...so do you prefer we return to the west-coast offense?

I am not a big fan of the spread offense.

However, I don't really care what system they run, as long as it is fairly balanced and produces points.

[slim]

I hate the spread offensive crap.

But I 'll be honest.. I do NOT want Kubes back as a coach. Maybe as an OC, but this wouldn't thrill me either.

Personally.... I'm hoping w e take a shot at Harbaugh from Stanford.

Harbaugh is the only college coach I would look at. But even then, hiring a college coach would make me nervous.

[Lancane]

I hate the spread offensive crap.

But I 'll be honest.. I do NOT want Kubes back as a coach. Maybe as an OC, but this wouldn't thrill me either.

Personally.... I'm hoping w e take a shot at Harbaugh from Stanford.

Harbaugh is gaining steam as the favorite amongst the fan-base, Gruden is still the favorite till he's eliminated from consideration or officially turns down the position. But, if Pat Bowlen named Harbaugh the next head coach here in four or five weeks, I think it would be met with a lot of shared enthusiasm and promise.

But I agree with Slim, I'm a bit iffy about going to the college ranks with the recent issues many of them have had at the pro-level.

[vandammage13]

I am not a big fan of the spread offense.

However, I don't really care what system they run, as long as it is fairly balanced and produces points.

I think the spread can work, as long as you have the right personnel. The '07 Pats broke all kinds of offensive records and ran the table in the regular season under McD's spread system. That same scheme failed to work here. Just goes to show that a scheme can only take you so far....You have to have the right QB and right talent around him to successfully run any scheme.

Scheme doesn't matter...You need players to win (In particular, a good QB).

[underrated29]

If we stay in a 3-4 there's no way we go DE, IMO. But I look forward to that debate from December to April. :beer:

~G



I also strongly Disagree with this too. Of course with everything up in the air it is too hard to even guess what is going to happen. But if it was me I would be looking at DE multiple times in this draft Esp with the 1st pick.

Our DE's suck IMO (talking about 3-4), we have no one who can rush the passer, and stop the run. NO ONE. We need a man beast. We need an igor olshansky, a Demarcus ware, richard seymour-understand he is in 43 D....But point is the same. Right now all of our pressure comes from Doom. Which is good and fine, as it is supposed to. But if we can get a guy who can bring the heat also- he and doom are going to OWN. Plus it will make stuffing the run a lot lot easier.

Fariley is the where my money is. As I think he can make the switch to DE in a 3-4, but is playing like a Haas currently in the 4-3 at NT. A hybrid I suppose. But IMO we need a DE in the worst way....NT too, but this draft is not full of elites at that position like it is at DE--Mind you that the Juniors do declare this year- which could eff things up more if they do not....


But there ya go, my thoughts on why we aboslutely go 3-4DE right away. (unless someone falls or champ leaves, then I like peterson.)

[Lancane]

I am not a big fan of the spread offense.

However, I don't really care what system they run, as long as it is fairly balanced and produces points.

I agree and disagree, I don't want us to go with a wildcat or option base offense, neither really translates well in the NFL. I'm alright if we go with a coryell, west-coast or run & shoot offense, I'd be okay with the spread over the more wack offensive systems.

[G_Money]

It has a certain irony to it...lol.

So, you're okay with scrapping the spread offensive scheme and returning to the west-coast offensive system? Just asking, because there have been mixed reviews as whether to remain with a spread, go to an option, try a coryell variant offensive scheme...so do you prefer we return to the west-coast offense?

As far as Dennison as HC, there's no way Kubiak goes to work for the man that currently works for him. And I don't think Kubiak getting fired in Houston precludes him from getting this job. He'd be getting fired in Houston because he can't get a DC who can stop Manning. He runs a top-5 offense by yards, top-10-to-12 by scoring. His team just cannot stop the pass.

Get him a better DC and let the man run his offense here and we should be fine.

Gruden would bring back the West Coast as well, and it's what John is familiar with, so yeah, I think a return of the West-Coast could be a distinct possibility.

Our personnel is still suited for it, so it wouldn't be a huge overhaul. I think an option-offense would be hysterical :lol: but I'm thinkin' we'll probably skip that.

The defense is in such flux at this point that a return to a 4-3 doesn't kill us either. It's not like we have a single DL that has to play in a 3-4 to be successful. So in that sense I don't think our DC options are limited either. I could actually see us bringing in a guy like John Fox as a DC, or if not him then Ron Meeks who is currently doing that job under Fox. If the GM is helping to get the staff put together then I could see us adding a quality coordinator or two to help the new coach out, a la Pioli in KC (who is the guy I REALLY wanted out of New England 2 years ago. Friggin' McDaniels...).

I'm eager to see the staff and front office that we put together.

And hopefully I like what I see. :laugh: Or if I don't like it, let them be great anyway!

~G

[G_Money]

I also strongly Disagree with this too. Of course with everything up in the air it is too hard to even guess what is going to happen. But if it was me I would be looking at DE multiple times in this draft Esp with the 1st pick.

Our DE's suck IMO (talking about 3-4), we have no one who can rush the passer, and stop the run. NO ONE. We need a man beast. We need an igor olshansky, a Demarcus ware, richard seymour-understand he is in 43 D....But point is the same. Right now all of our pressure comes from Doom. Which is good and fine, as it is supposed to. But if we can get a guy who can bring the heat also- he and doom are going to OWN. Plus it will make stuffing the run a lot lot easier.

Fariley is the where my money is. As I think he can make the switch to DE in a 3-4, but is playing like a Haas currently in the 4-3 at NT. A hybrid I suppose. But IMO we need a DE in the worst way....NT too, but this draft is not full of elites at that position like it is at DE--Mind you that the Juniors do declare this year- which could eff things up more if they do not....


But there ya go, my thoughts on why we aboslutely go 3-4DE right away. (unless someone falls or champ leaves, then I like peterson.)

3-4 DEs don't rush the passer that much.

They hold the edge against the run and contain blockers on pass-rushes to let the OLBs get to the QB.

If you want a DE pass-rusher, then you want to switch to a 4-3 D. I'm fine with that. I think we could work out our DL issues very shortly with a couple of good DT and DE picks in this draft. The DEs are relatively deep for the position, so our spare 2nd rounder from the Marshall trade should come in handy. There are a lot of good defenders in the first couple rounds of this draft, but I definitely go DT first if we're switching to a 4-3. I want a penetrating monster at that position that can be augmented by a DE pass-rusher in the 2nd.

Because in a 4-3 D, gap penetration by the DT is allowed. Encouraged even. :)

Now if you're talking about drafting a DE to switch to LB in a 3-4 and then rush the passer...then I would point you to Ayers and Doom and say we've already spent a lot of money (5 years, 18 million for Ayers, and 43+ Mill guaranteed to Doom) and a high-pick to get that to work out, and we should see what those guys can do under the new DC before we drop 25 million on another one with that high a pick.

~G

[slim]

What if we lose out and then hire Harbaugh as the next HC?

How much do you guys like Andrew Luck?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I agree and disagree, I don't want us to go with a wildcat or option base offense, neither really translates well in the NFL. I'm alright if we go with a coryell, west-coast or run & shoot offense, I'd be okay with the spread over the more wack offensive systems.

I just want to be able to run the ball effectively and score some damned points!

[Nomad]

What if we lose out and then hire Harbaugh as the next HC?

How much do you guys like Andrew Luck?

Do you honestly think Bowlen would pay that much cash for a #1 overall plus the BRONCOS would have to trade down giving up more!!

[LTC Pain]

I just want to be able to run the ball effectively and score some damned points!

AND keep the other team from doing the same! We need eleven guys on defense who eat lightning and crap thunder! :mad:

[slim]

Do you honestly think Bowlen would pay that much cash for a #1 overall plus the BRONCOS would have to trade down giving up more!!

I don't know. I highly doubt they will hire a college coach anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.

[Lancane]

I don't know. I highly doubt they will hire a college coach anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.

Ellis said today that they didn't care if they had to pay eight coaches to get it right, I think the same will go for players. I don't think Bowlen is going to be as cheap as we've all come to think he'll be.

Kreiger of the Denver Post just said pretty much the same thing in regards to the team on NFLN.

[Dzone]

How has Tebow been playing in practice? Is there any truth to the rumor that he was so bad in practice that Mcdaniels knew he wasnt ready to play? Of course, how can we trust Mcdaniels to know when someone is ready to play or not, the dude is a moron. He gave Hillis all of 13 carries in the whole season last year.

[Nomad]

They already have their coach picked out and waiting for him to get canned after the season! He'll probably let Denver beat him so it's a sure thing!

[BigDaddyBronco]

Ellis said today that they didn't care if they had to pay eight coaches to get it right, I think the same will go for players. I don't think Bowlen is going to be as cheap as we've all come to think he'll be.

Kreiger of the Denver Post just said pretty much the same thing in regards to the team on NFLN.
That actually makes me fell worse. If Bowlen/Ellis didn't want to spend a lot of money on a front office and thought that Shanny/McD could handle those dutties just fine, it means they are cheap. If money wasn't an option and they did the same thing it means they are stupid.

[Lancane]

They already have their coach picked out and waiting for him to get canned after the season! He'll probably let Denver beat him so it's a sure thing!

So you believe Kubiak is the next head coach huh? It's possible...

[Lancane]

That actually makes me fell worse. If Bowlen/Ellis didn't want to spend a lot of money on a front office and thought that Shanny/McD could handle those dutties just fine, it means they are cheap. If money wasn't an option and they did the same thing it means they are stupid.

Kreiger also said the fact that they really haven't made a move to look at coaching candidates could be the first sign that Denver is finally going to hire a real general manager who will have a say in the choice.

[Nomad]

So you believe Kubiak is the next head coach huh? It's possible...

Not really, but just I don't want him to be the coach....he will be the coach and he has Denver ties which seems to be important:rolleyes:!:D

[Lancane]

Not really, but just I don't want him to be the coach....he will be the coach!:D

O'tay! Hahahaha...:lol:

Have faith Nomad knows the way! ;)

[Dzone]

so you guys think that a return to Denver will suddenly make Kubiak a winning coach?

[BigDaddyBronco]

Kreiger also said the fact that they really haven't made a move to look at coaching candidates could be the first sign that Denver is finally going to hire a real general manager who will have a say in the choice.

God, I hope. I had a bigger beef with this than I did with McD. He probably wasn't the right answer, but they set him up to fail.

[Lancane]

I think Rick Dennison is going to get some heavy consideration because unlike Kubiak, he's more native to Colorado, went to Colorado State University, was a standout linebacker for the Broncos and has experience coaching several facets on the offensive side of the ball. He has an upbeat attitude, very well liked in the community and a lot of fans wanted him to get the position the last time we were looking for a new head coach.

[G_Money]

On the plus side with Dennison, he's not such a great OC (or even OL coach) that we've kneecapped ourselves in getting a better one.

Nolan could never get a DC who could run a defense as well as he could, and got distracted from his head coaching responsibilities by having to run the defense.

Ditto Lovie Smith before getting Marinelli back.

I'm not opposed in theory to Dennison...but man would I ever need some convincing that THIS first-time head coach is being given a better chance to succeed than the last one, and isn't being asked to do more than he can do.

And I'd want to know who he could get for his coaching staff.

I'm currently more interested in who we select for our GM, though, and how empowered he is. The GM can select the coach - assuming we let him - but the GM choice might illumine who the coaching candidates are in greater detail.

~G

[sneakers]

It doesn't really matter since we are not going to have football in 2011 anyways

[Lancane]

It doesn't really matter since we are not going to have football in 2011 anyways

No more negativity...sheesh! :D

Actually I think the league and players association will come to an agreement in time for there to be a 2011 season. The NFL doesn't want to give a leg up, they'd be alright financially, but with the emergence of the UFL and the large venues that they have cornered and the NFL has not could raise that league in popularity, the same could be said for the CFL for fans farther north. Not saying that is a definitive reason, but I don't think the league wants to risk it's popularity in light of everything.

[Cugel]

I believe Mr. Bowlen is sold on winning.

I can't imagine that he cares who's at the steering wheel, as long as they win . . .-----

Sorry, but I'm going to have to flag you for illegal use of logic and reason in defense of an argument TOP! :coffee:

[Cugel]

NOTE TO TEBOW FANS: You're going to suffer watching Tebow disappear. I don't mean to be unkind, but the first thing a new coach does in coming in is start getting rid of all the old mistakes the old coach and GM made.

And he begins by wanting his OWN QB! Will he give Tebow a chance? Sure. About as much as McDaniels gave Cutler a chance. :coffee:

That's reality in the NFL. Having the wrong QB gets coaches fired, so they figure "I want MY guy at QB."

And Tebow is McDANIEL'S guy. The new coach will have ZERO commitment to Tebow and won't be patient at ALL with developing him. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Broncos use their #1 draft pick on a QB if one falls they like.

And then they'll ship Tebow off for a package of used condoms.

The PLUS side of replacing a coach or GM after the team won maybe 4 games the previous season is that you don't have to justify ANYTHING. The previous regime was a total flaming disaster, so bad the coach was fired in MID-SEASON! They couldn't even wait until the season was over to get rid of him!

That means the new coach can be cold blooded about ridding the team of ANY player he doesn't want.

Don't like it Tebow-heads? Well, get used to it because that's life in the NFL. McDaniels wasn't the ONLY coach to come in and see the existing QB as part of the problem, not the solution.

Wrong or right, new coach most often means new QB. Don't be surprised if Tebow isn't a Bronco next spring. :coffee:

[Dzone]

yep, it does possibly mean the end of Tim Tebow in Denver..that would suck

[Ravage!!!]

I say we traded Tebow for a first, and move up to the #1 spot overall!! Love me some Luck!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

To this point, I still don't understand the animosity with Tebow. I just don't get it. I know some people didn't want us to draft him. I get that. I know lots of people would've preferred that we use the picks we used on him to draft defense. I get that, too. You could say we even overpaid for him drafting him in the 1st round and I'm with you, but that shit is water under the bridge now. We aren't getting those picks back. If we tried trading Tebow now, without him even taking a snap, we'd be lucky to get a 3rd.

We drafted him, he's a Bronco now. We can't go back in time and make a different draft pick. Aren't you guys even remotely curious to see what possibly the best college football player of all time can do before you exile him to another team and possibly out of football completely? Geez, guys gave Alphonso Smith more time before they crucified him.

What the hell is it about Tebow you absolutely hate so damned much? His "unorthodox" throwing motion - the same thing Favre and Rivers have? His lack of experience taking snaps from center? Other than those 2 things, I can't think of a downside with this guy, nor have I seen one.

It's not like the guy never threw passes in college - his passing numbers are actually outstanding. It's not like the guy never won anything and never proved he could be effective against top talent. It's not like the guy is some kind of character concern with a questionable past. The guy was the most DOMINANT player in the most DOMINANT conference in college football for 3 straight years. He's more than a QB, he's a football player and an athlete and on top of it all, he's extremely humble and hungry to help his team win. He's the very definition of a "team player" and yet with all of this, several of you guys aren't even willing to give him a shot?

I might be completely out to lunch here, but except for the Minnesota game where he had a bad Center/QB exchange and an INT (during which he completely STUCK the DB who picked him) I thought he looked like our best QB in the preseason. He showed mobility and flashed a rocket arm and great accuracy throwing BBs 30 yards downfield while rolling to his weak (right) side.

I'm seriously curious as to why the few of you guys who already think Tebow sucks and won't be any good honestly believe that. I'm completely baffled that a guy who hasn't been given the chance to throw but one pass (which was a TD, BTW) in the regular season is so despised. PLEASE correct my ignorance on this because right now it just looks personal with Tebow. Either you hated him in college or you hate him because he wasn't the guy that you wanted us to draft. So, which is it? Sam Bradford, who couldn't read a defense to save his life in college is playing really well. Colt (noodle armed system QB) McCoy was also pretty successful when he got a chance. Why not Tebow?

[Lancane]

To this point, I still don't understand the animosity with Tebow. I just don't get it. I know some people didn't want us to draft him. I get that. I know lots of people would've preferred that we use the picks we used on him to draft defense. I get that, too. You could say we even overpaid for him drafting him in the 1st round and I'm with you, but that shit is water under the bridge now. We aren't getting those picks back. If we tried trading Tebow now, without him even taking a snap, we'd be lucky to get a 3rd.

We drafted him, he's a Bronco now. We can't go back in time and make a different draft pick. Aren't you guys even remotely curious to see what possibly the best college football player of all time can do before you exile him to another team and possibly out of football completely? Geez, guys gave Alphonso Smith more time before they crucified him.

What the hell is it about Tebow you absolutely hate so damned much? His "unorthodox" throwing motion - the same thing Favre and Rivers have? His lack of experience taking snaps from center? Other than those 2 things, I can't think of a downside with this guy, nor have I seen one.

It's not like the guy never threw passes in college - his passing numbers are actually outstanding. It's not like the guy never won anything and never proved he could be effective against top talent. It's not like the guy is some kind of character concern with a questionable past. The guy was the most DOMINANT player in the most DOMINANT conference in college football for 3 straight years. He's more than a QB, he's a football player and an athlete and on top of it all, he's extremely humble and hungry to help his team win. He's the very definition of a "team player" and yet with all of this, several of you guys aren't even willing to give him a shot?

I might be completely out to lunch here, but except for the Minnesota game where he had a bad Center/QB exchange and an INT (during which he completely STUCK the DB who picked him) I thought he looked like our best QB in the preseason. He showed mobility and flashed a rocket arm and great accuracy throwing BBs 30 yards downfield while rolling to his weak (right) side.

I'm seriously curious as to why the few of you guys who already think Tebow sucks and won't be any good honestly believe that. I'm completely baffled that a guy who hasn't been given the chance to throw but one pass (which was a TD, BTW) in the regular season is so despised. PLEASE correct my ignorance on this because right now it just looks personal with Tebow. Either you hated him in college or you hate him because he wasn't the guy that you wanted us to draft. So, which is it? Sam Bradford, who couldn't read a defense to save his life in college is playing really well. Colt (noodle armed system QB) McCoy was also pretty successful when he got a chance. Why not Tebow?

I believe, that what we have now is the quandary of identity. We had an identity when Josh McDaniels took over, we had the face of our franchise in Jay Cutler, but he is gone. Only a select few feel that Orton can be that type of quarterback, the majority of the fan-base feels otherwise. When Vic Lombardi broke the story of McDaniels firing and mentioned Kyle Orton, only one person there watching the show clapped their hands. Some equate Orton and Tebow with McDaniels, and from that Cutler. There is bad-blood there, it may not be deserved…but it is the truth, there is no denying that fact, the threads on here confirm as much. And some wonder if Tim Tebow can be the new face of this franchise, but as of now they have no idea.

Even with McDaniels gone, he’s left a permanent lingering trace of his ineptitude on this team and the franchise. He destroyed the identity and face of this franchise and worse then doing just that, he did not replace it. If Orton’s fans think the fan-base will be happy to go into next season with Kyle Orton as the starter just because McDaniels is gone, then sorry to say they are dead wrong…because McDaniels was just one of several issues the majority of the fan-base had and has. And if Tebow is a project, if it will take another two or three years, then firing McDaniels will be all for nothing. Because to appease the fans, the Broncos’ organization will have to listen to what we’re disgruntled about. And if Tebow is not the future, as most believe Orton is not…then there is some decision making to do…period.

I’m not against Tebow, I think he has the physical attributes, the drive and mentality to be a starting NFL quarterback, but it doesn’t matter what I believe if he needs years of coaching and that is how most fans see it as well. Best to scrap him in the name of progress, blame McDaniels’ moronic ass and move on if that is the case.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I believe, that what we have now is the quandary of identity. We had an identity when Josh McDaniels took over, we had the face of our franchise in Jay Cutler, but he is gone. Only a select few feel that Orton can be that type of quarterback, the majority of the fan-base feels otherwise. When Vic Lombardi broke the story of McDaniels firing and mentioned Kyle Orton, only one person there watching the show clapped their hands. Some equate Orton and Tebow with McDaniels, and from that Cutler. There is bad-blood there, it may not be deserved…but it is the truth, there is no denying that fact, the threads on here confirm as much. And some wonder if Tim Tebow can be the new face of this franchise, but as of now they have no idea.

Even with McDaniels gone, he’s left a permanent lingering trace of his ineptitude on this team and the franchise. He destroyed the identity and face of this franchise and worse then doing just that, he did not replace it. If Orton’s fans think the fan-base will be happy to go into next season with Kyle Orton as the starter just because McDaniels is gone, then sorry to say they are dead wrong…because McDaniels was just one of several issues the majority of the fan-base had and has. And if Tebow is a project, if it will take another two or three years, then firing McDaniels will be all for nothing. Because to appease the fans, the Broncos’ organization will have to listen to what we’re disgruntled about. And if Tebow is not the future, as most believe Orton is not…then there is some decision making to do…period.

I’m not against Tebow, I think he has the physical attributes, the drive and mentality to be a starting NFL quarterback, but it doesn’t matter what I believe if he needs years of coaching and that is how most fans see it as well. Best to scrap him in the name of progress, blame McDaniels’ moronic ass and move on if that is the case.

My biggest question is, why does everyone think he's going to take "years" to develop??? Because some douchebag analyst like Mel Kiper said so? Bradford is starting, Clausen is starting, McCoy was starting. All of those guys are almost interchangeable with Tebow as far as passing stats are concerned in college except that Tebow has actually WON Championships before. The only reason that Tebow is seen as such a "project" is because he ran the ball a lot in college and his throwing motion isn't "textbook".

The same guys who are dogging Tebow are guys that probably would be cool with us drafting that piece of shit Cam Newton with his extortionist father. There's a real "prototype" QB for you. :rolleyes: I got an idea, let's compare Tebow's college career with Mallett's (along with his busted knees), Luck's, and Locker's and really separate the men from the boys.

I'm still waiting... Rav, Staples, Cugel I'm calling you out! :D

[Lancane]

My biggest question is, why does everyone think he's going to take "years" to develop??? Because some douchebag analyst like Mel Kiper said so? Bradford is starting, Clausen is starting, McCoy was starting. All of those guys are almost interchangeable with Tebow as far as passing stats are concerned in college except that Tebow has actually WON Championships before. The only reason that Tebow is seen as such a "project" is because he ran the ball a lot in college and his throwing motion isn't "textbook".

The same guys who are dogging Tebow are guys that probably would be cool with us drafting that piece of shit Cam Newton with his extortionist father. There's a real "prototype" QB for you. :rolleyes: I got an idea, let's compare Tebow's college career with Mallett's (along with his busted knees), Luck's, and Locker's and really separate the men from the boys.

I'm still waiting... Rav, Staples, Cugel I'm calling you out! :D

That's an easy one...mind if I answer?

Because he is not the prototypical quarterback that Denver fans want, we want the gunslinger with the win it all attitude. If you were to ask the fans who they want at quarterback no matter who; the majority would be for Phillip Rivers, Payton Manning and others of that caliber, maybe it's the 'western' in our blood...but Bronco fans love the gunslingers.

[EMB6903]

That's an easy one...mind if I answer?

Because he is not the prototypical quarterback that Denver fans want, we want the gunslinger with the win it all attitude. If you were to ask the fans who they want at quarterback no matter who; the majority would be for Phillip Rivers, Payton Manning and others of that caliber, maybe it's the 'western' in our blood...but Bronco fans love the gunslingers.

Bronco fans want a winner.. nothing more.

Which Tebow is and will continue to be throughout his career in Denver.

[dogfish]

NOTE TO TEBOW FANS: You're going to suffer watching Tebow disappear. I don't mean to be unkind, but the first thing a new coach does in coming in is start getting rid of all the old mistakes the old coach and GM made.

And he begins by wanting his OWN QB! Will he give Tebow a chance? Sure. About as much as McDaniels gave Cutler a chance. :coffee:

That's reality in the NFL. Having the wrong QB gets coaches fired, so they figure "I want MY guy at QB."

And Tebow is McDANIEL'S guy. The new coach will have ZERO commitment to Tebow and won't be patient at ALL with developing him. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Broncos use their #1 draft pick on a QB if one falls they like.

And then they'll ship Tebow off for a package of used condoms.

The PLUS side of replacing a coach or GM after the team won maybe 4 games the previous season is that you don't have to justify ANYTHING. The previous regime was a total flaming disaster, so bad the coach was fired in MID-SEASON! They couldn't even wait until the season was over to get rid of him!

That means the new coach can be cold blooded about ridding the team of ANY player he doesn't want.

Don't like it Tebow-heads? Well, get used to it because that's life in the NFL. McDaniels wasn't the ONLY coach to come in and see the existing QB as part of the problem, not the solution.

Wrong or right, new coach most often means new QB. Don't be surprised if Tebow isn't a Bronco next spring. :coffee:

i sincerely hope we get a smarter coach this time than all that. . . start shipping guys off right away? wait a minute, isn't that exactly what mcdaniels did that so many people hated?

yea, let's not do that again, please. . .

any coach with enough brains to get a HC job should be able to see tebow's value just as a red zone and short yardage weapon-- it's already right ****ing there on tape, just like hillis running fools over was on tape. . . no speculation about "potential"-- he's already done it. . . at this level, and on this team. . .

we need to hire someone who's smart enough and competent enough to work with what he has here, at least to start with. . . if we bring in someone who can't work with orton and/or tebow for at least a year or two while he FIXES THE ****ING DEFENSE, then we've obviously hired the wrong guy. . . no more pissing away all our assets on skill position players because the ones we have aren't good enough, for whatever reason. . .

i'm not naive, and i understand that there's going to be roster turnover-- that's inevitable. . . but they damn well need to make do with the quarterbacks we have until there's some semblance of a professional defense in place-- otherwise it's just more spinning our wheels like we have been doing. . .

if they can work with orton and queen, AND get a first or second for tim i can live with that, but anyone who just flushes an asset whose value hasn't come close to being tested yet is a moron who should never be in a position of responsibility. . . it pisses me off bad enough watching hillis kill it for another team-- i don't need any repeats. . .

[EMB6903]

Tebow doesnt have the arm strength.. who cares?

Regardless of arm strength Tebow still has all the tools to succeed in this league.

And as crazy as this sounds that doesnt even matter.

Its the little things Tebow does that will put him over the top.

[Lancane]

Bronco fans want a winner.. nothing more.

Which Tebow is and will continue to be throughout his career in Denver.

Don't bet your ass on it...because Cassel is a winner right now and he still wouldn't have the backing of the fans!

But I hope you're right about Tebow, I think a lot of the kid...but no one is sure at this time.

;)

[dogfish]

To this point, I still don't understand the animosity with Tebow. I just don't get it. I know some people didn't want us to draft him. I get that. I know lots of people would've preferred that we use the picks we used on him to draft defense. I get that, too. You could say we even overpaid for him drafting him in the 1st round and I'm with you, but that shit is water under the bridge now. We aren't getting those picks back. If we tried trading Tebow now, without him even taking a snap, we'd be lucky to get a 3rd.

We drafted him, he's a Bronco now. We can't go back in time and make a different draft pick. Aren't you guys even remotely curious to see what possibly the best college football player of all time can do before you exile him to another team and possibly out of football completely? Geez, guys gave Alphonso Smith more time before they crucified him.

What the hell is it about Tebow you absolutely hate so damned much? His "unorthodox" throwing motion - the same thing Favre and Rivers have? His lack of experience taking snaps from center? Other than those 2 things, I can't think of a downside with this guy, nor have I seen one.

It's not like the guy never threw passes in college - his passing numbers are actually outstanding. It's not like the guy never won anything and never proved he could be effective against top talent. It's not like the guy is some kind of character concern with a questionable past. The guy was the most DOMINANT player in the most DOMINANT conference in college football for 3 straight years. He's more than a QB, he's a football player and an athlete and on top of it all, he's extremely humble and hungry to help his team win. He's the very definition of a "team player" and yet with all of this, several of you guys aren't even willing to give him a shot?

I might be completely out to lunch here, but except for the Minnesota game where he had a bad Center/QB exchange and an INT (during which he completely STUCK the DB who picked him) I thought he looked like our best QB in the preseason. He showed mobility and flashed a rocket arm and great accuracy throwing BBs 30 yards downfield while rolling to his weak (right) side.

I'm seriously curious as to why the few of you guys who already think Tebow sucks and won't be any good honestly believe that. I'm completely baffled that a guy who hasn't been given the chance to throw but one pass (which was a TD, BTW) in the regular season is so despised. PLEASE correct my ignorance on this because right now it just looks personal with Tebow. Either you hated him in college or you hate him because he wasn't the guy that you wanted us to draft. So, which is it? Sam Bradford, who couldn't read a defense to save his life in college is playing really well. Colt (noodle armed system QB) McCoy was also pretty successful when he got a chance. Why not Tebow?

great questions, man. . . i'll tell ya what i think-- i think too many people got caught believing the hype. . . the ol' "he's good at running, he must not be able to throw the ball" bugaboo. . . plus his delivery is unconventional, so he must be completely unable to play QB at the NFL level-- an assumption that people will stubbornly cling to despite any examples to the contrary. . .

that, and some people resent him because he's overtly religious. . .

i'll admit that i have no idea whether he can be a good QB at this level, but now that we've already paid for him, i am looking forward to finding out. . . he has a good frame and a good arm, with tons of athletic ability and intangibles that coaches would kill for. . . maybe he is a bit of a longshot, but even if he is, the potential payoff is more than worth the patience to develop him. . . it's not like he can't contribute in other ways in the meantime! hell, if you decide he's not the QB of the future, play him on special teams-- how many other #3 QBs have his athletic ability? a creative coach will find plenty for tim to do. . .

[Lancane]

great questions, man. . . i'll tell ya what i think-- i think too many people got caught believing the hype. . . the ol' "he's good at running, he must not be able to throw the ball" bugaboo. . . plus his delivery is unconventional, so he must be completely unable to play QB at the NFL level-- an assumption that people will stubbornly cling to despite any examples to the contrary. . .

that, and some people resent him because he's overtly religious. . .

i'll admit that i have no idea whether he can be a good QB at this level, but now that we've already paid for him, i am looking forward to finding out. . . he has a good frame and a good arm, with tons of athletic ability and intangibles that coaches would kill for. . . maybe he is a bit of a longshot, but even if he is, the potential payoff is more than worth the patience to develop him. . . it's not like he can't contribute in other ways in the meantime! hell, if you decide he's not the QB of the future, play him on special teams-- how many other #3 QBs have his athletic ability? a creative coach will find plenty for tim to do. . .

I have to disagree Dogfish, while I do agree he has potential...no owner is going to pay first round money for a backup/special teams/3rd down quarterback, maybe if he converts to safety or tight end...but no way in hell do I see Bowlen sitting happy with a quarterback like that, that's my opinion though.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I have to disagree Dogfish, while I do agree he has potential...no owner is going to pay first round money for a backup/special teams/3rd down quarterback, maybe if he converts to safety or tight end...but no way in hell do I see Bowlen sitting happy with a quarterback like that, that's my opinion though.

It ain't like we are paying him top 5 $. We kept Jarvis Moss' worthless ass on the roster for what... 5 years? All the while paying him as the #17 overall pick. Tebow was taken 25 and has already done more in spot duty in one season than Moss has in 5 years! I'd bet he can run, hit, play the run, and rush the passer better than Moss too if given the opportunity!

[dogfish]

I have to disagree Dogfish, while I do agree he has potential...no owner is going to pay first round money for a backup/special teams/3rd down quarterback, maybe if he converts to safety or tight end...but no way in hell do I see Bowlen sitting happy with a quarterback like that, that's my opinion though.

he's produced, what, five TDs so far his rookie year? that's pretty good production for a guy that's barely seen the field. . . besides, he needs a few years at QB to know whether he can play the position successfully-- his salary shouldn't become an issue for at least a year or two. . .

[Lancane]

he's produced, what, five TDs so far his rookie year? that's pretty good production for a guy that's barely seen the field. . . besides, he needs a few years at QB to know whether he can play the position successfully-- his salary shouldn't become an issue for at least a year or two. . .

And you actually believe the majority of the fandom, with all it's been through and the loss of Cutler, which is sinking in more and more, especially when being mentioned left and right at this time are going to be patient?

Really?

I mean really, really?

Not to be an ass, because I know it will sound that way...but there is no way in hell, that the fans are going to sit and wait, two or three years, especially with Orton at the helm. And I sure in the hell don't see Bowlen waiting years for results from a first round quarterback, whether the 10th or the 29th overall pick, nor those he hires to run this organization. The majority of fans don't support Orton right now, how many times do we hear put in Tebow or another sort of Tebow chant as it is? And you think fans will be alright doing that for another year or so? Just because McDaniels is gone, don't think all the issues fans have are...Orton's fan-base isn't rising because they fired Josh either.

I guess will just have to agree to disagree on this. ;)

[underrated29]

I think people hate on TT now so much because they hate josh mcdaniels. It is the exact same principal as to why people hate knowshon moreno....

THEY ARE BUTT HURT!!!- for knowshon, they wanted orakpo and took it personally when we drafted knowshon, then their asses chapped even more when hillis got shipped out.

Now that Josh is gone, TT was drafted by Josh, therefore he is like Josh, and is a choke artists who only brings things down.




It has nothing to do with logical thinking or anything else. They see TT and know that Josh drafted him and had ties with him, and since josh was shit TT is now shit. Guilty by association and it is really freaking stupid.

TT-didnt ask to be drafted by Josh, he does not owe josh anything except thanks for drafting him. TT is just a person who wanted to get drafted as high as he could, make some money and help a team win. And We all know he wants a team to win.


THere is no question marks with him except for lack of experience and play time. But bronco fans will love him, we like the gun slinger, but remember how many people LOVED plummer and his ability to be a snake and not take sacks, and run for yards, and the boot legs....TT can do all that and more. Anyone who HONESTLY says that he has a weak are, can not perform at an nfl level, or pass or anything else is using a bias. Because we know he can. We saw it in college, we saw it in Training Camp, we saw it at TC in invesco, we saw a lot of it in pre season----remember- if it was not for a few dropped passes (placed pretty damn perfectly) by our WR-willis, #81-honeycutt or whatever his name was. TT would have scored on ALL of his drives...I believe- going off memmory and it was a while ago. If not all. Then I would say 80% or so. Unfortunately I do not have those on DVR as I switched tv providers.




Haters gon hate, and when there is no coach to hate- it will turn to players.

[Magnificent Seven]

I am sure Broncos Organization will keep Tebow because Denver loves mobile-quarterback.

[TimBuff10]

Where exactly do you think we need to improve on offense....TE- yeah we could use a pass catcher...QB- Kyle is servicable and we have TT.......where else.....


I think the offense is pretty dam set, aside from those two positions. One of which can easily be filled through FA or draft, and the other we have a servicable guy and possible future waiting in the wings.

Wins come from the trenches. Our offensive line sucks and is near the bottom in rushing. If you can't run the ball, you aren't winning. Our QB just showed off his dishrag arm in KC and although serviceable he gets most of his yards against a prevent type of defense. Orton isn't the problem but he isn't an answer of any type either.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Tim Tebow is 6'3" tall and 250 lbs. He runs a 4.7, 40 and had the best short shuttle of any QB EVER at the combine. All of his numbers and measurables are off the charts as well as his attitude, leadership skills, and character.

So, take away the fact that the guy played QB in high school and college and tell me what you see...

I see a guy that would probably excel at about 5 other positions. TE, H-back, FB, OLB in a 3-4, TED LB in a 3-4.

Tebow is bigger than all of our LBs except maybe Ayers and runs a faster 40 than all of our starting LBs except for DJ Williams!

The bottom line is, if for some reason he doesn't pan out at QB convert him to a position where he can make an impact. I can almost guarantee that his measurables alone would make him a dominant TE or LB in this league. Knowing what type of character and determination he has, I have no doubt that he would make the switch to another position if we asked him to. And he would excel there, too.

Having this guy on our team makes our locker room better, which makes our team better, period.