PDA

View Full Version : McDaniels Refuses to play Tebow regardless of record -



Lancane
12-06-2010, 03:57 PM
McDaniels also indicated that even though the Broncos have been eliminated from the playoffs with a 3-9 record, first-round quarterback Tim Tebow will not be replacing Kyle Orton.

"People can make a case for experience being helpful," McDaniels said. "I think good experience is always better than just experience."


Read more: Broncos' Mays, Gronkowski on injured reserve; Tebow still sits - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16790626#ixzz17MpVhlTk
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse


"There's a team to think about here, too," McDaniels said. "We want to try and win. I think our guys played their butt off yesterday trying to win the game. And we're going to continue to do that. The goal is to win one game at a time, four times."

Read more: Broncos' Mays, Gronkowski on injured reserve; Tebow still sits - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16790626#ixzz17MpefK67
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse


But what about Tebow and other rookies who haven't played much this season?

"I understand the question," McDaniels said. "But I also think Tim has tried to do the best he can with the limited opportunities he's had in practice.

"So you get your chances and work your butt off, but we're going to take a view about what's best for the team and consider that, consider all things. And if those things we think can help our football team be better down the stretch than we're going to do them, no matter what position it is, no matter who it is."


Read more: Broncos' Mays, Gronkowski on injured reserve; Tebow still sits - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16790626#ixzz17MplRCei
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Damn...the ship is sinking faster and faster!

Dirk
12-06-2010, 04:03 PM
I understand what McD is saying, but at this point, he needs to find out if Tebow is the man or not. If he DOES NOT play Tebow the rest of the year and we lose out, it will only show that he is an immature, stubborn man.

Listen up McD....YOU ARE NOT WINNING WITH KYLE, GIVE TEBOW SOME VALUABLE GAME SPEED EXPERIENCE BEFORE NEXT YEAR!!!

Northman
12-06-2010, 04:03 PM
So im guessing that will mean that Orton will be the starter next year.

BroncoStud
12-06-2010, 04:05 PM
I'm really just at a loss. I think the only way we are going to see his value is if Bowlen steps in and tells McDumbass to play him. How the hell do you gain "good experience" by sitting on the sideline in a wasted season?

Why does Orton give Denver the best chance to win?

Orton has won 5 games in his last 22 starts...

He has won 22.7% of his games in that span and he's a VETERAN!

:elefant:

vandammage13
12-06-2010, 04:07 PM
The only reason I can possibly come up with for McD sticking with Orton is that he's hoping Orton can finish strong so as to maximize his trade value. Perhaps that carries more weight than getting Tebow experience now.

Outside of that, I think it's time for a change, because I'm tired of hearing this nonsense about Orton giving us the best chance to win. We are 3-9 and Orton only plays well when we are losing by 14+ pts.

Nomad
12-06-2010, 04:09 PM
I understand what McD is saying, but at this point, he needs to find out if Tebow is the man or not. If he DOES NOT play Tebow the rest of the year and we lose out, it will only show that he is an immature, stubborn man.

Listen up McD....YOU ARE NOT WINNING WITH KYLE, GIVE TEBOW SOME VALUABLE GAME SPEED EXPERIENCE BEFORE NEXT YEAR!!!

Right on! He's just flat out saying he won't play, not even a quarter of a game! Disappointing to say the least! Bowlen is letting him be this way!! A caller on 87.7 called Bowlen incompetent this morning and I agree!!

Dirk
12-06-2010, 04:12 PM
Right on! He's just flat out saying he won't play, not even a quarter of a game! Disappointing to say the least! Bowlen is letting him be this way!! A caller on 87.7 called Bowlen incompetent this morning and I agree!!

I know that Bowlen likes to sit back and allow those that he chose run the ship, but sometimes the captain needs to right the ship.

My biggest fear is that Bowlen will turn into an Al Davis.....:shocked:

Lancane
12-06-2010, 04:18 PM
So im guessing that will mean that Orton will be the starter next year.

Actually, I think this almost seals the deal that McDaniels is done in Denver. Woody Paige and Mike Kliss have both said that Tebow was his only real shot at winning back the fans that are on the fence but leaning towards revolting. It wouldn't have won back the majority, but enough of the fans that Bowlen could have been assuaged a little, therein making the decision harder for him.

There are a few scenarios that could be at play in my opinion, McDaniels drafted Tebow and he really isn't as good as he thought he'd be, to show this now would surely end his career in Denver. No matter the win-loss record he's waiting till December 26th, Denver's next home game to play him simply to fill the stands and again deceive ownership for another year...or lastly refuse to play him this season...period, hope that holding off that Bowlen will allow him his third year as head coach, despite the everything in hopes that Tebow will be the promise of the future.

But as I mentioned before, I think this will seal the deal that he's done...fans want to support Tebow, but not at the cost of the respectability of the team.

Northman
12-06-2010, 04:19 PM
Actually, I think this almost seals the deal that McDaniels is done in Denver. Woody Paige and Mike Kliss have both said that Tebow was his only real shot at winning back the fans that are on the fence but leaning towards revolting. It wouldn't have won back the majority, but enough of the fans that Bowlen could have been assuaged a little, therein making the decision harder for him.

There are a few scenarios that could be at play in my opinion, McDaniels drafted Tebow and he really isn't as good as he thought he'd be, to show this now would surely end his career in Denver. No matter the win-loss record he's waiting till December 26th, Denver's next home game to play him simply to fill the stands and again deceive ownership for another year...or the third option is refuse to play him this season...period. Or lastly, hope that holding off that Bowlen will allow him his third year as head coach, despite the everything in hopes that Tebow will be the promise of the future.

But as I mentioned before, I think this will seal the deal that he's done...fans want to support Tebow, but not at the cost of the respectability of the team.

One can hope but with Bowlen you never know.

Nomad
12-06-2010, 04:21 PM
I know that Bowlen likes to sit back and allow those that he chose run the ship, but sometimes the captain needs to right the ship.

My biggest fear is that Bowlen will turn into an Al Davis.....:shocked:

I know there are numerous ways you can look at this about how an owner interacts with his team, but seeing the consensus among the fans, talk shows (in Denver and nationally), articles, they all know the season is done as far as playoffs and everyone wants to see Tebow and what he can do! Sometimes an owner has to put his foot down and give the very people that invest into his company what they want and seeing the potential next franchise QB for the BRONCOS is what everybody wants to see!!

Italianmobstr7
12-06-2010, 04:22 PM
I've been thinking we should play Tebow but I know we wont. He's going to give Tebow the entire year to learn the playbook and adjust to the NFL without letting him start. It has been known to work before. I've been wanting him to get in and play because of the learning curve. Might as well let him get some rookie mistakes out of the way in a wasted season. I think by keeping Tebow out, it keeps McDaniels in though. Bowlen isn't going to fire McD after Tebow just spent an entire year learning a system and getting used to the NFL to not give him a shot to see what he can do. Bringing in a new coach would mean wasting an entire year of what Tebow just learned. I think McD is doing what he thinks is best for the team and for himself. I hope and think he's right.

arapaho2
12-06-2010, 04:22 PM
i guess josh is to scared to put his job on the line with a rookie qb


so much for being team oriented:lol:

keeping orton as the starter


pros


hes a vet

he knows the offense

we might win at least one more game


cons

the rookie loses valuable playing time in a already wasted season

we wont know if tebow can be our future

go into draft not knowing if we need a qb

possible higher draft pick

topscribe
12-06-2010, 04:25 PM
Actually, I think this almost seals the deal that McDaniels is done in Denver. Woody Paige and Mike Kliss have both said that Tebow was his only real shot at winning back the fans that are on the fence but leaning towards revolting. It wouldn't have won back the majority, but enough of the fans that Bowlen could have been assuaged a little, therein making the decision harder for him.

There are a few scenarios that could be at play in my opinion, McDaniels drafted Tebow and he really isn't as good as he thought he'd be, to show this now would surely end his career in Denver. No matter the win-loss record he's waiting till December 26th, Denver's next home game to play him simply to fill the stands and again deceive ownership for another year...or the third option is refuse to play him this season...period. Or lastly, hope that holding off that Bowlen will allow him his third year as head coach, despite the everything in hopes that Tebow will be the promise of the future.

But as I mentioned before, I think this will seal the deal that he's done...fans want to support Tebow, but not at the cost of the respectability of the team.

That's the problem. If you read the signs as I do, then it becomes apparent
that Tebow is not as good as advertised. Think about it: Tebow hasn't been
trusted to come in even late in a blowout game. He hasn't been trusted to
throw a pass out of the Tame Horses formation (except for one 3-yarder
near the goal line that my mother could have completed).

McDaniels jumped off the cliff in the draft, IMO, when he sacrificed several
draft choices - that could have been used to upgrade the defense - to grab
a QB, who was controversial throughout the league as to whether he could
become a star, or even a starter. And now, what's up with that?--It's
beginning to look like another McDaniels faux pas in talent evaluation . . .

-----

Dirk
12-06-2010, 04:26 PM
I've been thinking we should play Tebow but I know we wont. He's going to give Tebow the entire year to learn the playbook and adjust to the NFL without letting him start. It has been known to work before. I've been wanting him to get in and play because of the learning curve. Might as well let him get some rookie mistakes out of the way in a wasted season. I think by keeping Tebow out, it keeps McDaniels in though. Bowlen isn't going to fire McD after Tebow just spent an entire year learning a system and getting used to the NFL to not give him a shot to see what he can do. Bringing in a new coach would mean wasting an entire year of what Tebow just learned. I think McD is doing what he thinks is best for the team and for himself. I hope and think he's right.

Interesting take. You could be right. :confused:

Dirk
12-06-2010, 04:29 PM
That's the problem. If you read the signs as I do, then it becomes apparent
that Tebow is not as good as advertised. Think about it: Tebow hasn't been
trusted to come in even late in a blowout game. He hasn't been trusted to
throw a pass out of the Tame Horses formation (except for one 3-yarder
near the goal line that my mother could have completed).

McDaniels jumped off the cliff in the draft, IMO, when he sacrificed several
draft choices - that could have been used to upgrade the defense - to grab
a QB, who was controversial throughout the league as to whether he could
become a star, or even a starter. And now, what's up with that?--It's
beginning to look like another McDaniels faux pas in talent evaluation . . .

-----

I hope you are wrong. I hope if anything McD is holding out on Tebow because he knows he will run the tables next year and be the team to goes undefeated and through the SB in the 2000's.
****back to reality****

topscribe
12-06-2010, 04:36 PM
I hope you are wrong. I hope if anything McD is holding out on Tebow because he knows he will run the tables next year and be the team to go undefeated in a 16 game season!! :elefant:


****back to reality****

My friend, I direly hope I am wrong, too. Especially after reading that the
likes of John Lynch (who knows defense) that the personnel decisions have
gotten the Broncos into a predicament where they may be facing a long,
painful rebuilding process. I hope he's wrong, too . . .

-----

Lancane
12-06-2010, 04:41 PM
I've been thinking we should play Tebow but I know we wont. He's going to give Tebow the entire year to learn the playbook and adjust to the NFL without letting him start. It has been known to work before. I've been wanting him to get in and play because of the learning curve. Might as well let him get some rookie mistakes out of the way in a wasted season. I think by keeping Tebow out, it keeps McDaniels in though. Bowlen isn't going to fire McD after Tebow just spent an entire year learning a system and getting used to the NFL to not give him a shot to see what he can do. Bringing in a new coach would mean wasting an entire year of what Tebow just learned. I think McD is doing what he thinks is best for the team and for himself. I hope and think he's right.

As I stated before Mobstr, I think this is the deal sealer for the end of his career in Denver. Doesn't matter what he thinks, he's proving to be a goddamn imbecile by most standards. The fan revolt isn't going to be laid to rest if he beats Arizona, and for the first time I find myself hoping that we lose to an inferior team simply to rid ourselves of this freaking cancer...and I don't like that feeling! Fans are not going to spend their hard earned money in an unstable economic time when they don't know what they're buying. Are they buying McDaniels...because they don't want that, he has a worse approval rating then Bush did before leaving office in my opinion. No, the fans want to buy into Tebow, but they are not going to buy a product that could be nothing more then for show, Bowlen was willing to let a Pro-Bowl Quarterback be traded to appease this idiot, he's not going to give him another year simply because of Tebow, the fans would be in full-revolt if that happened. It wouldn't be the first time we've had wasted first round draft picks because of coaches, when in doubt...remember Tommy Maddox.

It's not like McDaniels hasn't wasted a first round draft pick, if I remember one such pick is now playing in Detroit.

No, I think McDaniels just let the fans know he doesn't give a shit about the fans and that's more then enough for those on the fence and leaning this way to jump off screaming 'Viva La Revolution'. Bowlen, I believe will be forced more by public opinion rather then by choice to send McDaniels' ass packing...because the fans will no longer willing to put their faith in him nor this organization as long as he remains.

Warhawk
12-06-2010, 04:42 PM
Hey All,

First post in a time of troubles...

My feeling is that Tebow is the card that McD is loathe to play. The development of Tebow is a reason to keep McD - starting with a fresh HC and offensive system would probably set the kid back. However, it's that unknown potential that is valuable - if you put Tebow on the field now and he plays poorly, it hurt the whole "Tebow as the future" line of thinking and brings back a bunch of negative stuff regarding our draft day moves to get Tebow in the first place. Add to that the fact that McD probably feels that wins are the best way of ensuring his survival, it pretty much guarantees Tebow will continue to ride the pine.

From a management perspective, Tebow taking the field for the final home games makes a lot of sense. Fan excitement, butts in the stands, etc. But I don't see McD going along with that unless given no choice.

BeefStew25
12-06-2010, 04:45 PM
Hey All,

First post in a time of troubles...

My feeling is that Tebow is the card that McD is loathe to play. The development of Tebow is a reason to keep McD - starting with a fresh HC and offensive system would probably set the kid back. However, it's that unknown potential that is valuable - if you put Tebow on the field now and he plays poorly, it hurt the whole "Tebow as the future" line of thinking and brings back a bunch of negative stuff regarding our draft day moves to get Tebow in the first place. Add to that the fact that McD probably feels that wins are the best way of ensuring his survival, it pretty much guarantees Tebow will continue to ride the pine.

From a management perspective, Tebow taking the field for the final home games makes a lot of sense. Fan excitement, butts in the stands, etc. But I don't see McD going along with that unless given no choice.

Hey are you a man or woman?

topscribe
12-06-2010, 04:48 PM
Hey All,

First post in a time of troubles...

My feeling is that Tebow is the card that McD is loathe to play. The development of Tebow is a reason to keep McD - starting with a fresh HC and offensive system would probably set the kid back. However, it's that unknown potential that is valuable - if you put Tebow on the field now and he plays poorly, it hurt the whole "Tebow as the future" line of thinking and brings back a bunch of negative stuff regarding our draft day moves to get Tebow in the first place. Add to that the fact that McD probably feels that wins are the best way of ensuring his survival, it pretty much guarantees Tebow will continue to ride the pine.

From a management perspective, Tebow taking the field for the final home games makes a lot of sense. Fan excitement, butts in the stands, etc. But I don't see McD going along with that unless given no choice.

First, welcome to the board! :welcome:

The problem is, if McDaniels puts Tebow in, he probably will play poorly. It
was widely known that Tebow was a project at the time of his selection,
that it may take two or three years to get him to a playing level.

Cane is right, if I understand him correctly: If Tebow plays poorly, that will
be the final nail in the coffin.


P.S. Don't respond to Beef. He'll hit on you in either case . . .

-----

Dirk
12-06-2010, 04:48 PM
Hey All,

First post in a time of troubles...

My feeling is that Tebow is the card that McD is loathe to play. The development of Tebow is a reason to keep McD - starting with a fresh HC and offensive system would probably set the kid back. However, it's that unknown potential that is valuable - if you put Tebow on the field now and he plays poorly, it hurt the whole "Tebow as the future" line of thinking and brings back a bunch of negative stuff regarding our draft day moves to get Tebow in the first place. Add to that the fact that McD probably feels that wins are the best way of ensuring his survival, it pretty much guarantees Tebow will continue to ride the pine.

From a management perspective, Tebow taking the field for the final home games makes a lot of sense. Fan excitement, butts in the stands, etc. But I don't see McD going along with that unless given no choice.

First Welcome to the boards!

2nd I can see your points as well. So I gave you a high 5.

It's at times like this where we can all place our feelings as to how and why things are going the way they are.

I think it will all come down to $$. Plain and simple.

$$ that Bowlen would be paying for 3 head coaches if he fires McD.

Lancane
12-06-2010, 04:52 PM
First Welcome to the boards!

2nd I can see your points as well. So I gave you a high 5.

It's at times like this where we can all place our feelings as to how and why things are going the way they are.

I think it will all come down to $$. Plain and simple.

$$ that Bowlen would be paying for 3 head coaches if he fires McD.

Dirk, Jay Glazer of Fox Sports reported Saturday evening that money will not play a factor in McDaniels fate here in Denver.

Dirk
12-06-2010, 04:54 PM
Dirk, Jay Glazer of Fox Sports reported Saturday evening that money will not play a factor in McDaniels fate here in Denver.

It's easy for him to say since it's not his money. Just sayin'.

Did Bowlen tell him that personally? Or maybe his accountant? Again, Just sayin'.

BroncoStud
12-06-2010, 04:54 PM
First, welcome to the board! :welcome:

The problem is, if McDaniels puts Tebow in, he probably will play poorly. It
was widely known that Tebow was a project at the time of his selection,
that it may take two or three years to get him to a playing level.

Cane is right, if I understand him correctly: If Tebow plays poorly, that will
be the final nail in the coffin.


P.S. Don't respond to Beef. He'll hit on you in either case . . .

-----

With all due respect TOP, Orton isn't winning games either and his failures on 3rd down are actually hurting Denver at this point.

If not Tebow, put in Brady Quinn. People forget about him as well. He's had all season to absorb the playbook and he has game experience. Either way we are treading water with Orton this season, at 3-9 what's the point?

See if Quinn or Tebow has "it" or not. At least that way Denver can go into the draft knowing more about the QB position. If Denver loses the next 2 with Orton it will be very interesting to see if Bowlen forces his hand.

At this point I see no viable reason to start Orton. He isn't winning either.

Lancane
12-06-2010, 04:56 PM
The problem is, if McDaniels puts Tebow in, he probably will play poorly. It was widely known that Tebow was a project at the time of his selection, that it may take two or three years to get him to a playing level.

Cane is right, if I understand him correctly: If Tebow plays poorly, that will
be the final nail in the coffin.


Actually, that's one part of it...and I think McDaniels is hoping that by holding off it will save him. But I don't think it's enough reason for Bowlen to justify defying the masses and retaining McDaniels for a third year.

Either way, I feel that McDaniels is done in Denver.

Adam Schefter and Jay Glazer are both reporting that his ass is basically on fire due to how hot a seat he's sitting on.

Warhawk
12-06-2010, 04:56 PM
First Welcome to the boards!


First, welcome to the board! :welcome:

P.S. Don't respond to Beef. He'll hit on you in either case . . .


Thanks for the welcome and the warning... though anyone with an avy like that is probably going to be a little troubled (nice ass, shame about the feces).

Lancane
12-06-2010, 04:58 PM
It's easy for him to say since it's not his money. Just sayin'.

Did Bowlen tell him that personally? Or maybe his accountant? Again, Just sayin'.

Adam Schefter pretty much said the same thing on Friday when he reputed his own story that McDaniels' job was safe and would return for his third season. So, Adam has changed his tune as well.

TXBRONC
12-06-2010, 05:01 PM
Damn...the ship is sinking faster and faster!

It seems that this coach will do things just to prove a point.

Warhawk
12-06-2010, 05:02 PM
Actually, that's one part of it...and I think McDaniels is hoping that by holding off it will save him. But I don't think it's enough reason for Bowlen to justify defying the masses and retaining McDaniels for a third year.

McD is going to grasp at whatever straws he can, regardless of how faint the hope is. I think the "intermediate" situation (stripped of personnel decisions, veteran coordinators brought in to take over some of the responsibilities) is still a possible, though unlikely, outcome.

IMO, trying to win games while keeping the Tebow dream alive is his plan. Let's see if it works.

Dirk
12-06-2010, 05:02 PM
Adam Schefter pretty much said the same thing on Friday when he reputed his own story that McDaniels' job was safe and would return for his third season. So, Adam has changed his tune as well.

Schefter is a more credible source in my book. But still, Bowlen looks stupid if he is paying for 3 HCs and stupid if he keeps McD for another year and we continue to lose.

It's tough being a billionaire. :tsk:

Lancane
12-06-2010, 05:06 PM
McD is going to grasp at whatever straws he can, regardless of how faint the hope is. I think the "intermediate" situation (stripped of personnel decisions, veteran coordinators brought in to take over some of the responsibilities) is still a possible, though unlikely, outcome.

IMO, trying to win games while keeping the Tebow dream alive is his plan. Let's see if it works.

Some sound reasoning Hawk, and I agree...I think the idiot is grasping for straws, but the majority of the fandom wouldn't piss on him right now if his ass was on fire, so it will not help on that front. And I personally don't believe it will work, but I do agree that it's the likeliest scenario that is going on.

Solid first posts by the way! :beer:

TXBRONC
12-06-2010, 05:08 PM
I hope you are wrong. I hope if anything McD is holding out on Tebow because he knows he will run the tables next year and be the team to goes undefeated and through the SB in the 2000's.
****back to reality****

I don't that's McDaniels is being stubborn about it. Imho from reading signs it has to do with not wanting to put Tebow in a bad position and that falsely he thinks Orton gives him the best chance win. Unfortunately getting hit between the eyes with a 3-9 doesn't seem to register with him that Orton is not solution and doesn't have the ability to actually win games regardless of how he plays.

topscribe
12-06-2010, 05:09 PM
With all due respect TOP, Orton isn't winning games either and his failures on 3rd down are actually hurting Denver at this point.

If not Tebow, put in Brady Quinn. People forget about him as well. He's had all season to absorb the playbook and he has game experience. Either way we are treading water with Orton this season, at 3-9 what's the point?

See if Quinn or Tebow has "it" or not. At least that way Denver can go into the draft knowing more about the QB position. If Denver loses the next 2 with Orton it will be very interesting to see if Bowlen forces his hand.

At this point I see no viable reason to start Orton. He isn't winning either.

Stud, it makes no difference who is the QB if the down-and-distance on
third downs remains the same. We've been over this before. Stats were
produced to how what some of the top QBs in the league, from Manning on
down, were doing with 3rd-and-longs, and those stats showed they were
not doing any better than Orton. The difference is, Orton has had a lot
more of them to deal with, and much of it is due to the lack of running
game and an inordinate amount of penalties (which included, admittedly, a
couple delay-of-games by Orton).

No, Orton's performance on third down is the last reason I would replace
him. Now, if the running game keeps clicking, we will see some shorter
distances on third down. If Orton then keeps struggling, then, yeah, start
considering other options. Let's wait and see . . .

-----

Northman
12-06-2010, 05:10 PM
That's the problem. If you read the signs as I do, then it becomes apparent
that Tebow is not as good as advertised. Think about it: Tebow hasn't been
trusted to come in even late in a blowout game. He hasn't been trusted to
throw a pass out of the Tame Horses formation (except for one 3-yarder
near the goal line that my mother could have completed).

McDaniels jumped off the cliff in the draft, IMO, when he sacrificed several
draft choices - that could have been used to upgrade the defense - to grab
a QB, who was controversial throughout the league as to whether he could
become a star, or even a starter. And now, what's up with that?--It's
beginning to look like another McDaniels faux pas in talent evaluation . . .

-----

Oh my, i hope your wrong. If Tebow is a bust it will be a huge fubar. Eeek, i dont even want to think that right now but good points.

vandammage13
12-06-2010, 05:12 PM
No, Orton's performance on third down is the last reason I would replace
him. Now, if the running game keeps clicking, we will see some shorter
distances on third down. If Orton then keeps struggling, then, yeah, start
considering other options. Let's wait and see . . .

-----

Kind of like the last few weeks....:coffee:

topscribe
12-06-2010, 05:13 PM
Oh my, i hope your wrong. If Tebow is a bust it will be a huge fubar. Eeek, i dont even want to think that right now but good points.

Well, what Tebow has going for him are his work ethic and apparent maturity.
So I'm not all sure about that, of course. Just reading the red flags.

But, as I mentioned, I, too, hope I'm wrong. But even if I am wrong, that will
not stock the defense for us . . .

-----

TXBRONC
12-06-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm really just at a loss. I think the only way we are going to see his value is if Bowlen steps in and tells McDumbass to play him. How the hell do you gain "good experience" by sitting on the sideline in a wasted season?

Why does Orton give Denver the best chance to win?

Orton has won 5 games in his last 22 starts...

He has won 22.7% of his games in that span and he's a VETERAN!

:elefant:


That's always a possibility but it would go against the grain of how Bowlen has operated in the past.

Lancane
12-06-2010, 05:16 PM
Schefter is a more credible source in my book. But still, Bowlen looks stupid if he is paying for 3 HCs and stupid if he keeps McD for another year and we continue to lose.

It's tough being a billionaire. :tsk:

Well, I'll brake it down a little better...according to Glazer, when Mike Shanahan was hired by the Redskins, the league wanted to approve of the contract first to make sure it was appropriate for both parties. The 'raisers' or annual raises in the contract would not be an issue. If Pat Bowlen was willing to pay Shanahan seven million this upcoming year and what I believe is thirteen million the following year after firing him, I'm sure he's not so worried about the extra 3.5 million he'd have to cover firing McDaniels. Remember, Josh McDaniels was given a lesser contract because he was not a big name as far as being a head coach, nor could he command what other coaches with better resumes could. Bowlen only has to pay half of what was owed to Shanahan, add in what is owed to McDaniels...it less then what he was willing to pay Mike for sitting on his ass at home if he so decided.

topscribe
12-06-2010, 05:18 PM
Well, I'll brake it down a little better...according to Glazer, when Mike Shanahan was hired by the Redskins, the league wanted to approve of the contract first to make sure it was appropriate for both parties. The 'raisers' or annual raises in the contract would not be an issue. If Pat Bowlen was willing to pay Shanahan seven million this year and what I believe is 13 million next year after firing him, I'm sure he's not so worried about the extra 3.5 million he'd have to cover firing McDaniels. Remember, Josh McDaniels was given a lesser contract because he was not a big name as far as being a head coach, nor could he command what other coaches with better resumes could. Bowlen only has to pay half of what was owed to Shanahan, add in what is owed to McDaniels...it less then what he was willing to pay Mike for sitting on his ass at home if he so decided.

Good point. That was analyzed by Legwold, I believe, and his conclusion was much like yours . . .

-----

Dirk
12-06-2010, 05:20 PM
Well, I'll brake it down a little better...according to Glazer, when Mike Shanahan was hired by the Redskins, the league wanted to approve of the contract first to make sure it was appropriate for both parties. The 'raisers' or annual raises in the contract would not be an issue. If Pat Bowlen was willing to pay Shanahan seven million this year and what I believe is thirteen million next year after firing him, I'm sure he's not so worried about the extra 3.5 million he'd have to cover firing McDaniels. Remember, Josh McDaniels was given a lesser contract because he was not a big name as far as being a head coach, nor could he command what other coaches with better resumes could. Bowlen only has to pay half of what was owed to Shanahan, add in what is owed to McDaniels...it less then what he was willing to pay Mike for sitting on his ass at home if he so decided.

Ok, you got it down to terms I understand now. :lol:

Makes sense then why Jay and Adam said what they did. But it is an assumption on their part as I'm sure Pat didn't share his feelings with them.

But still I understand where they are coming from.

Krugan
12-06-2010, 05:22 PM
Aaron Rodgers

If Tebow gets to play ill be amazed.

Would love to see if maybe that top 5 pick should be used to bring in someone like Luck. But im 99% sure that we dont see him starting this year.

Northman
12-06-2010, 05:22 PM
Well, what Tebow has going for him are his work ethic and apparent maturity.
So I'm not all sure about that, of course. Just reading the red flags.

But, as I mentioned, I, too, hope I'm wrong. But even if I am wrong, that will
not stock the defense for us . . .

-----

Dont remind me. Im almost terrified at what McD will do this draft if he sticks around. He may just say to himself that Doom is the reason we failed on that side of the ball and draft more offense. Its a scary thought for me. I hope Tebow works out but i was never that crazy about him especially given Orton's age. That whole senario just didnt play out like i thought it would.

vandammage13
12-06-2010, 05:29 PM
Aaron Rodgers

If Tebow gets to play ill be amazed.

Would love to see if maybe that top 5 pick should be used to bring in someone like Luck. But im 99% sure that we dont see him starting this year.

There's a major difference between Rodgers' situation and Tebow's. Rodgers was sitting behind a HOFer and the Packers were still winning (reference NFC Championship game Favre's last year there). Tebow is sitting behind Kyle Orton on a 3-9 team out of playoff contention.

2 totally different situations that can't really be compared. There wasn't much reason to play Rodgers, as Favre had one of his best years his final year with the Pack and was basically 1 throw away from the Super Bowl. There is plenty of reason to get Tebow some experience, as the Broncos have not much else to play for other than the future.

Lancane
12-06-2010, 05:30 PM
Good point. That was analyzed by Legwold, I believe, and his conclusion was much like yours . . .

-----

I think Legwold did report his conclusion which is very similar to the one I just posted. Shanahan had a very wealthy contract as the head coach in Denver, and I believe he's owed thirteen million his final year which is 2012 without a lockout, Bowlen would owe only 6.5 million in that case, add in the 4.5 or whatever due to McDaniels and it's still less then what he was willing to sacrifice when firing him...I'm sure Bowlen wishes he didn't have to pay a cent for either, but that's the business.

The post-season plays a huge factor, the millions earned from post-season appearances let alone hosting playoff games appropriates a lot of money for the players and coaches, let alone the organization. And right now, we are looking at a team that will not sniff the post-season for at least a couple more years at this rate, that has to play a factor for a team that at one time averaged getting into the post-season at least once every three years...that's what Bowlen was use to.

G_Money
12-06-2010, 05:32 PM
So, let me see if I've got this right.

1) We trade Cutler for Orton (and picks) because Cutler just can't run this offense and was too big a drama queen to put up with or pay huge bucks to.

2) We play Orton for an entire season.

3) After seeing Orton for an entire season, we decide that Orton can't cut the mustard as QB either and spend a first round pick on the QB of the future, Tim Tebow.

4) Hedging our bets, we then extend Orton for a year in case Tebow isn't the QBOTF, thus making it tougher to replace Orton at QB with Tebow if the year gets bad.

5) We lose like we hath never losteth beforeth.

6) Orton still cannot be supplanted by the QBOTF this year because we are trying to win 4 more games and save Josh's job - even though apparently Josh's job is safe and what happens in the last 4 games doesn't weigh in on it so he COULD play Tebow if he wants without repercussions.

7) We may still trade Orton after all this with no idea of whether Tebow can play QB next year at a productive level, since we refuse to play him in a non-practice, non-goal-line-running situation.

Nope, I sure can't understand why the national media thinks we're a joke. :rolleyes:

Either Orton is the guy Josh is going to war with, or he isn't. Either Josh is safe, or he isn't. If Josh is safe, and Orton is not the guy he's hanging his Year Two and Year Three fate on, then he should play Tebow.

If Josh isn't safe, or Orton IS the guy he's hanging his future on, then Tebow's butt is apparently gonna stay on the bench.

Either way, I wish we had a less schizophrenic coach.

~G

arapaho2
12-06-2010, 05:35 PM
Schefter is a more credible source in my book. But still, Bowlen looks stupid if he is paying for 3 HCs and stupid if he keeps McD for another year and we continue to lose.

It's tough being a billionaire. :tsk:


that would be easily brushed aside if the new coach turned this team around imediatly

in my opinion the potential lost revenue of another horrid season under josh easily outweighs the loss of 3.5 million for fireing josh this season

topscribe
12-06-2010, 05:41 PM
that would be easily brushed aside if the new coach turned this team around imediatly

in my opinion the potential lost revenue of another horrid season under josh easily outweighs the loss of 3.5 million for fireing josh this season

Another good point. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

elsid13
12-06-2010, 05:47 PM
That's the problem. If you read the signs as I do, then it becomes apparent
that Tebow is not as good as advertised. Think about it: Tebow hasn't been
trusted to come in even late in a blowout game. He hasn't been trusted to
throw a pass out of the Tame Horses formation (except for one 3-yarder
near the goal line that my mother could have completed).

McDaniels jumped off the cliff in the draft, IMO, when he sacrificed several
draft choices - that could have been used to upgrade the defense - to grab
a QB, who was controversial throughout the league as to whether he could
become a star, or even a starter. And now, what's up with that?--It's
beginning to look like another McDaniels faux pas in talent evaluation . . .

-----

If that is the case, then Denver needs to do what ever it takes to go get Luck, (if he comes out). Which means sacrificing defense picks.

TXBRONC
12-06-2010, 05:47 PM
So, let me see if I've got this right.

6) Orton still cannot be supplanted by the QBOTF this year because we are trying to win 4 more games and save Josh's job - even though apparently Josh's job is safe and what happens in the last 4 games doesn't weigh in on it so he COULD play Tebow if he wants without repercussions. ~G

Is there something new on this front that I missed? I know last week Bowlen gave a interview which he unequivocally said McDaniels would be back but then just hours later he walked that statement back to the point of saying that he would be monitoring the teams progress over the last five weeks before making a decision.

topscribe
12-06-2010, 05:48 PM
If that is the case, then Denver needs to do what ever it takes to go get Luck, (if he comes out). Which means sacrificing defense picks.

:faint:

-----

Lancane
12-06-2010, 05:48 PM
Another scenario is that we hire a new head coach and a whole new regime, and if they feel Orton is best as a possible starter/backup, they keep him for another season and trade Tebow if they don't feel he's got the appropriate skill-set for the position.

If Gruden takes over in San Francisco it could be an ideal situation or maybe trade him to one of the organizations in Florida, where he'll be the first NFL Player to break jersey sales for two different teams...maybe in Miami so he'll end up playing with Marshall, now that would be some heavy irony for McDaniels' ass. Denver then drafts Luck or Mallett with our first round pick, the rest of our picks are all used for defense. Denver goes 6-10, then ends up 10-6 and back in the playoffs! Hmmmm....

:lol:

topscribe
12-06-2010, 05:50 PM
Another scenario is that we hire a new head coach and a whole new regime, and if they feel Orton is best as a possible starter/backup, they keep him for another season and trade Tebow if they don't feel he's got the appropriate skill-set for the position.

If Gruden takes over in San Francisco it could be an ideal situation or maybe trade him to one of the organizations in Florida, where he'll be the first NFL Player to break jersey sales for two different teams...maybe in Miami so he'll end up playing with Marshall, now that would be some heavy irony for McDaniels' ass. Denver then drafts Luck or Mallett with our first round pick, the rest of our picks are all used for defense. Denver goes 6-10, then ends up 10-6 and back in the playoffs! Hmmmm....

:lol:


Well, I understand SF is in need of revenue. :D

-----

G_Money
12-06-2010, 06:05 PM
This isn't like Matt Leinart looking like a complete 'tard in every situation he steps into. Tebow didn't do anything wrong in the Preseason, hasn't done anything wrong in the regular season, and yet can't get reps or snaps because Orton gives us the best chance to win.

Except we're not winning.

Either say, "Orton is my guy for 2011" or say "we need to look to the future and see which guy gives us the best chance to win going forward" and play Tebow at least a little.

There's GONNA be a QB controversy. We knew that when we drafted Tebow.

If he can't play, then why are you twisting Orton in the wind with these half-assed backings of his position? Orton will be our 2011 QB and there's no need to play Tebow at all. You could just say, "he's still learning and will continue to learn, and push Kyle throughout this season and next" or whatever and let that be that.

If he CAN play, then why aren't you considering letting him play at all? Orton has shown everything Orton is going to show as far as maxing his trade value. The Cardinals game is the perfect place for Tebow to debut if you want to see him get a soft landing. No crushing pressure of playing at home, and their D is shaky at best.

But we'd rather pass it up because we need that 4th win of the season that Orton guarantees.

Except he can't guarantee it.

Argh. :tsk:

My HOPE is that this means that McDaniels isn't safe for 2011.

My FEAR is that this is just who Josh is: a vascillating ass-clown of the first order with no forethought, and it has no deeper meaning regarding his security as our head coach.

~G

claymore
12-06-2010, 06:15 PM
Mgmt might be in a pickle. If Tebow sucks there is no reason to be excited about this team other than childhood loyalties.

They need to get some playmakers in here if they want the fanbase to maintain its strength and continue to grow.

Dirk
12-06-2010, 06:17 PM
If that is the case, then Denver needs to do what ever it takes to go get Luck, (if he comes out). Which means sacrificing defense picks.

You know...as crazy as that sounds, I agree with you. If Tebow isn't who McD thought he was, he has only one way out, and that is to get someone who is. Luck will be the next great QB in the league and if Tebow isn't going to be, then McD may save his ass by grabbing Luck and trading like a wild man to get defensive players.

That makes my head hurt!

topscribe
12-06-2010, 06:19 PM
This isn't like Matt Leinart looking like a complete 'tard in every situation he steps into. Tebow didn't do anything wrong in the Preseason, hasn't done anything wrong in the regular season, and yet can't get reps or snaps because Orton gives us the best chance to win.

Except we're not winning.

Either say, "Orton is my guy for 2011" or say "we need to look to the future and see which guy gives us the best chance to win going forward" and play Tebow at least a little.

There's GONNA be a QB controversy. We knew that when we drafted Tebow.

If he can't play, then why are you twisting Orton in the wind with these half-assed backings of his position? Orton will be our 2011 QB and there's no need to play Tebow at all. You could just say, "he's still learning and will continue to learn, and push Kyle throughout this season and next" or whatever and let that be that.

If he CAN play, then why aren't you considering letting him play at all? Orton has shown everything Orton is going to show as far as maxing his trade value. The Cardinals game is the perfect place for Tebow to debut if you want to see him get a soft landing. No crushing pressure of playing at home, and their D is shaky at best.

But we'd rather pass it up because we need that 4th win of the season that Orton guarantees.

Except he can't guarantee it.

Argh. :tsk:

My HOPE is that this means that McDaniels isn't safe for 2011.

My FEAR is that this is just who Josh is: a vascillating ass-clown of the first order with no forethought, and it has no deeper meaning regarding his security as our head coach.

~G

McDaniels is just in one miserably tough spot. Play Tebow, and if Tebow
doesn't play well, McDaniels is gone. Play Orton and the Broncos lose the
rest of the season, McDaniels is gone.

Hell, he might be gone, anyway.

I don't think he knows what to do at this point . . .

-----

G_Money
12-06-2010, 06:50 PM
If he'd known what to do at any point in his 2-year reign of terror, we wouldn't be having this problem now.

The problem is, he ACTED like he knew what he was doing the first year and a half. Now he just looks like a fighter who's taken one shot too many and doesn't want to throw a punch OR defend for fear of taking another beating.

Inaction is still a choice. Just not a good one.

~G

PAINTERDAVE
12-06-2010, 06:57 PM
Well.. the worm has turned...

McD is fired.

I bet his refusal to develop Tebow in these final games played a big part of his firing.

topscribe
12-06-2010, 07:02 PM
Well.. the worm has turned...

McD is fired.

I bet his refusal to develop Tebow in these final games played a big part of his firing.

Not sure it came into play at all. Could have been. Could also have been that
he selected Tebow in the first place.

But the W-L coupled with Spygate II should have done it . . .

-----

BroncoStud
12-06-2010, 07:03 PM
Forgotten in all this is Brady Quinn. Former 1st rounder and now who knows...

BroncoStud
12-06-2010, 07:04 PM
Not sure it came into play at all. Could have been. Could also have been that
he selected Tebow in the first place.

But the W-L coupled with Spygate II should have done it . . .

-----

I don't think it's just a coincidence that McD has a presser and says that Orton will remain starter and within hours is fired... I think Bowlen heard enough, read enough, and saw the lost $$$ in his future if a change wasn't made.

topscribe
12-06-2010, 07:08 PM
I don't think it's just a coincidence that McD has a presser and says that Orton will remain starter and within hours is fired... I think Bowlen heard enough, read enough, and saw the lost $$$ in his future if a change wasn't made.

We'll find out soon enough. But it doesn't really make sense because Mr. Bowlen has
always been a hands-off type of owner. Jerry Jones he is not. I just don't see it.

-----

PAINTERDAVE
12-06-2010, 07:10 PM
Not sure it came into play at all. Could have been. Could also have been that
he selected Tebow in the first place.

But the W-L coupled with Spygate II should have done it . . .

-----

Just not sure why you are so sure Tebow has no chance to be a good QB, TOP.

Not looking for a long list... I know the pros and cons...
I just do not understand why you are so sure.

I think Bowlen LIKES the TEBOW pick.

topscribe
12-06-2010, 07:13 PM
Just not sure why you are so sure Tebow has not chance to be a good QB, TOP.

Not looking for a long list... I know the pros and cons...
I just do not understand why you are so sure.

I think Bowlen LIKES the TEBOW pick.

I have never said Tebow "has no chance to be a good QB." Never. Ever. Not
once. I have very carefully stated that I may be wrong, nearly every time. I
just said I was going by the signs and that may be the case.

You are usually better than that at reading, Dave . . .

-----