Wish we still had Jay Cutler

[Truth]

Not Kyle Orton the Garbage Man. Here is why

Jay Cutler
Behind 1-8 points:
65% comp
8.5 avg
9 TDs
5 INTs
98.3 QBR

4th Quarter +/- 7 points
67.3% comp
8.1 avg
5 TDs
2 INTs
108.1 QBR


Here are Orton's stats in the same situations.

Behind 1-8 points:
52.8% comp
6.4 avg
2 TDs
5 INTs
61.2 QBR

4th QTR +/- 7 points
49.3% comp
5.5 avg
1 TD
2 INT
58.4 QBR

You can win in the playoffs with Jay Cutler. Not Kyle Orton. In fact, you can't even make the playoffs with Kyle Orton!

[BroncoBJ]

Not sure how you know you can win in the playoffs with Jay Cutler, considering he hasn't even made the playoffs.

You can win in the playoffs though with good D. Which is what the Bears have this year.

[silkamilkamonico]

Not sure how you know you can win in the playoffs with Jay Cutler, considering he hasn't even made the playoffs.

You can win in the playoffs though with good D. Which is what the Bears have this year.

Hell, with a defense like that, you can even win in the playoffs with Rex Grossman as your QB.

[ursamajor]

Not sure how you know you can win in the playoffs with Jay Cutler, considering he hasn't even made the playoffs.

You can win in the playoffs though with good D. Which is what the Bears have this year.

Huh? I thought the Bears were the "worst 3-0 team in history"...alon w/ the Chiefs.

:lol:

[ursamajor]

Hell, with a defense like that, you can even win in the playoffs with Rex Grossman as your QB.

Respect the "Sex Cannon":cheer2:

[TXBRONC]

Not sure how you know you can win in the playoffs with Jay Cutler, considering he hasn't even made the playoffs.

You can win in the playoffs though with good D. Which is what the Bears have this year.

Same can be said of Orton, he's never started a playoff game in his life.

[Dzone]

anyone who thinks Orton is better than Cutler needs to have your head examined

[BigDaddyBronco]

Yea I love diabetic, drunk, turnover machines.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

So he can throw interceptions left, right and center?

[Dirk]

No thanks.

Jay has talent but I'm glad he is gone. I'm not saying Orton is better and who knows about Tebow. I'm just glad I don't have to look at his mug every week.

If Denver's defense played as well as Chicago's this year we would be leading the division. I have no doubt...I checked with a local interdimensional psychic.

[Northman]

No thanks.

Jay has talent but I'm glad he is gone. I'm not saying Orton is better and who knows about Tebow. I'm just glad I don't have to look at his mug every week.

If Denver's defense played as well as Chicago's this year we would be leading the division. I have no doubt...I checked with a local interdimensional psychic.

That isnt guaranteed. We cant score. Yesterday was proof that the first meeting was a aberration. Defense did all it could yesterday and we failed miserably. Even in 08' when the defense was ten times worse we had a better record under Cutler.

[Dirk]

Any given Sunday North....any given Sunday.

We couldn't score, true. But neither could KC on this defense who is in the bottom on all facets of the game. We have been close on several occasions this year. If the defense was better, we probably would have won those games. I'm just sayin, if our defense was as good as Chicago's defense we would be sooooooooo much better.

[Northman]

Any given Sunday North....any given Sunday.

We couldn't score, true. But neither could KC on this defense who is in the bottom on all facets of the game. We have been close on several occasions this year. If the defense was better, we probably would have won those games. I'm just sayin, if our defense was as good as Chicago's defense we would be sooooooooo much better.

True, but then again our Oline is playing better than his. I guess my point is im all for giving Orton credit for how he is playing but this continued agenda that people have to rip Cutler just seems pointless to me. The kid is good and while he is still making some mistakes i can also see his progress. And lets not pretend that drama was all on him when it came to why he left. McD had his hand in that as well. So while Chicago has some good things going for it they have other issues that we dont have.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I don't wish we still had Cutler. Hated it when we traded him but I'm over it now. I'm not a fan of our current milktoast QB and am anxiously awaiting to see if the guy on the sidelines wearing #15 can do better.

[Dirk]

True, but then again our Oline is playing better than his. I guess my point is im all for giving Orton credit for how he is playing but this continued agenda that people have to rip Cutler just seems pointless to me. The kid is good and while he is still making some mistakes i can also see his progress. And lets not pretend that drama was all on him when it came to why he left. McD had his hand in that as well. So while Chicago has some good things going for it they have other issues that we dont have.

I agree. I don't rip on Cutler. I have always said he has talent. I just don't like his attitude.

[TXBRONC]

No thanks.

Jay has talent but I'm glad he is gone. I'm not saying Orton is better and who knows about Tebow. I'm just glad I don't have to look at his mug every week.

If Denver's defense played as well as Chicago's this year we would be leading the division. I have no doubt...I checked with a local interdimensional psychic.


That isnt guaranteed. We cant score. Yesterday was proof that the first meeting was a aberration. Defense did all it could yesterday and we failed miserably. Even in 08' when the defense was ten times worse we had a better record under Cutler.

I agree with North for the most part this offense hasn't been racking up the points even when defense is playing well so even if we did have strong defense to go with this offense I wouldn't hold breath that we would be leading the division.

Just to make it clear like someone else I thought trading Cutler was a colossal cluster ______ I moved on along time ago.

Btw Dirk you might want to get your money back from Miss Cleo her interdemsional psychic ability has been in slump for as long McDaniels has been the head coach of the Broncos. :D

[Dirk]

Btw Dirk you might want to get your money back from Miss Cleo her interdemsional psychic ability has been in slump for as long McDaniels has been the head coach of the Broncos. :D

:lol:

I'm tellin' ya. She isn't hittin on anything these days!

[Tned]

I agree with North for the most part this offense hasn't been racking up the points even when defense is playing well so even if we did have strong defense to go with this offense I wouldn't hold breath that we would be leading the division.

Just to make it clear like someone else I thought trading Cutler was a colossal cluster ______ I moved on along time ago.

Btw Dirk you might want to get your money back from Miss Cleo her interdemsional psychic ability has been in slump for as long McDaniels has been the head coach of the Broncos. :D

I've moved on too, but at the same time you can't evaluate McDaniels and whether or not he should be fired, without looking at the player moves he's made.

[Northman]

Yea, im not clammoring for us to have him back. But im not sold on the idea that we wouldnt be just as successful if not better without him. I mean, McD is SUPPOSED to be a QB guy and considering the work he has done with Orton i think its safe to say had he given Jay a chance he would of done well.

[TXBRONC]

I've moved on too, but at the same time you can't evaluate McDaniels and whether or not he should be fired, without looking at the player moves he's made.

Most definitely you take all the off field moves along with the failure on the field and it has accumulative effect.

[TXBRONC]

Yea, im not clammoring for us to have him back. But im not sold on the idea that we wouldnt be just as successful if not better without him. I mean, McD is SUPPOSED to be a QB guy and considering the work he has done with Orton i think its safe to say had he given Jay a chance he would of done well.

Agreed if McDaniels had give Cutler a chance I think he would have done well. If fact I think our win totals would be a lot higher with him under center.

[BroncoStud]

Spot Check

Arm Strength: Cutler by a mile
Mobility: Cutler by a mile
Short Accuracy: Orton by some
Deep Accuracy: Cutler by some
Comeback Ability: Cutler by a mile
Ball Protection: Orton by a mile
Attitude: Orton by a mile
Leadership: Neither - N/A

Orton isn't doing anything Cutler can't do, other than protect the football. Cutler can throw a ball like Orton only wishes he could and he can buy himself time and actually throw on the run downfield.

My money says Cutler would have better yardage than Orton and more wins, but Orton would have less turnovers because he doesn't take many risks.

Obviously, I would prefer Cutler to Orton, and it isn't close.

[spikerman]

I can't help but wonder if Denver's scoring will improve once a new videographer is hired.

[TXBRONC]

I can't help but wonder if Denver's scoring will improve once a new videographer is hired.

True we are short-handed in that department and it more than likely is contributing to current problems. :lol:

[BORDERLINE]

yeah, i don't miss Cutler....

hated mostly everything about the guy

Orton is almost the polar opposite, very little talent but really smart

but i do recognize that Cutler has better chances to win those tight games in the end

[Traveler]

Not Kyle Orton the Garbage Man. Here is why

Jay Cutler
Behind 1-8 points:
65% comp
8.5 avg
9 TDs
5 INTs
98.3 QBR

4th Quarter +/- 7 points
67.3% comp
8.1 avg
5 TDs
2 INTs
108.1 QBR


Here are Orton's stats in the same situations.

Behind 1-8 points:
52.8% comp
6.4 avg
2 TDs
5 INTs
61.2 QBR

4th QTR +/- 7 points
49.3% comp
5.5 avg
1 TD
2 INT
58.4 QBR

You can win in the playoffs with Jay Cutler. Not Kyle Orton. In fact, you can't even make the playoffs with Kyle Orton!

Still pass on Jay Cutler. Getting rid of him was the right thing to do. Very talented, but won't come through in the clutch. He's done nothing to disprove this point IMO.

[Nomad]

Agreed if McDaniels had give Cutler a chance I think he would have done well. If fact I think our win totals would be a lot higher with him under center.

I know this has been rehashed but I still believe McDaniels came in with an open mind with Cutler. Cutler wasn't happy from day 1 of the hire and when he snubbed McDaniels after he was hired without welcoming him to the team because other team captains were doing so. I believe Cutler gave an attitude at the beginning and McDaniels said eff this I'm going to get a guy who will work with me! Did McDaniels handle the situation like a seasoned HC would of, NO, but I believe McDaniels gave Cutler a chance!

[arapaho2]

cutlers gone and aint a dam thing we can do about it

but i loved what cutler can bring...sure he forces it...sure he makes a bonehead mistake moreso than a play it safe orton

but the differance between this 3-8 team with horrible defense and the 8-8 08 team with horrible defense is the QB

sure orton passes for alot of yards...sure he gets a td or two and throws fewer ints

but he also isnt that guy..that fiery go to guy...that guy that wills a play to happen....he doesnt have that comeback, 4th qrt force that a cutler has

people forget how many ints elway threw early in his career...i see the same intangebles in cutler..that gungslinger im gonna go down and score attitude...that raw physical ability..the arm

its like battle....would you rather have the gunslinger...im gonna get us out of this mess or go down trying commander in front of you

or the...i'd help you but im afraid to get hit...attitude

[TXBRONC]

yeah, i don't miss Cutler....

hated mostly everything about the guy

Orton is almost the polar opposite, very little talent but really smart

but i do recognize that Cutler has better chances to win those tight games in the end

Yesterday I don't think he looked all that smart. He let play clock expire which set up that strip sack on the next play and how many in-completions to your favor target does it take before you figure out that Chief defensive backs have him covered for crying out loud?

[slim]

He is not coming back.

******* get over it already.

[Northman]

He is not coming back.

******* get over it already.

Listen mascara boy, no one asked you. ;)

[slim]

Listen mascara boy, no one asked you. ;)

Well, that's the problem.

I have all the answers, but no one wants to hear them.

[Northman]

Well, that's the problem.

I have all the answers, but no one wants to hear them.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Dzone]

from a strictly entertainment standpoint, I enjoyed Sundays watching Cutler way more than watching Orton the scarecrow...

[Dzone]

Orton's physical build is more suitable to tennis than to football. His demeanor also is more suitable to tennis. Orton was a tennis player in High school... he looks more like a tennis player out there than a football player...Put Tebow in!!!dammit

[Ravage!!!]

I know this has been rehashed but I still believe McDaniels came in with an open mind with Cutler. Cutler wasn't happy from day 1 of the hire and when he snubbed McDaniels after he was hired without welcoming him to the team because other team captains were doing so. I believe Cutler gave an attitude at the beginning and McDaniels said eff this I'm going to get a guy who will work with me! Did McDaniels handle the situation like a seasoned HC would of, NO, but I believe McDaniels gave Cutler a chance!

See. I have a hard time believing this considering we've seen McD unable to get along with SOOO many people! McD seems to be the one to prove, over and over again, that HE is the one that has the attitude. Whether it be with players, OR, Coaches! Even coaches on his staff, RIGHT NOW, have talked about how McD treats people like shit. How is it hard to believe, that when Cutler met up with him in person, that McD didn't do the same thing he's proved to do with everyone else, since?

I also don't think he gave Cutler a chance, since he was trying to trade him away (for Matt Cassel of all people) before they even had a SINGLE practice together.

[Nomad]

See. I have a hard time believing this considering we've seen McD unable to get along with SOOO many people! McD seems to be the one to prove, over and over again, that HE is the one that has the attitude. Whether it be with players, OR, Coaches! Even coaches on his staff, RIGHT NOW, have talked about how McD treats people like shit. How is it hard to believe, that when Cutler met up with him in person, that McD didn't do the same thing he's proved to do with everyone else, since?

I also don't think he gave Cutler a chance, since he was trying to trade him away (for Matt Cassel of all people) before they even had a SINGLE practice together.

Gee no surprise you stepped in to defend Cutler!!

I won't disagree with you about how McDaniels treats people but I believe it all started with Cutler and I'll leave it at that!!

[Northman]

Gee no surprise you stepped in to defend Cutler!!

I won't disagree with you about how McDaniels treats people but I believe it all started with Cutler and I'll leave it at that!!

That really isnt fair Nom. I mean even if Rav defends Cutler you generally bash him. Everybody has their biases and such. But he makes a lot of great points. But even in your defense i could say that Jay was very upset with the loss of Shanahan and then Bates. But, really if your a new coach you should expect that a young kid was going to be somewhat upset with losing the coach who drafted him. Jay had his own faults throughout that charade but i personally dont believe that he wouldnt work with McD. Jay didnt get looney until the trade talks came up. Whether any of what you said played into why McD lied about the trade initially no one will ever know.

[Ravage!!!]

Seems that everyone is talking how Cutler is a "turnover machine" (which is actually inaccurate). He's led the NFL in INTs ONE season.

People griped and laughed at Cutler last season for his turnovers. FIrst time in a new system, no good WRs, terrible OC, and a HORRENDOUS OL. Yet, look at all the QBs in the NFL that have higher numbers of INTs this season.... Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, Brett Favre, and Tony Romo still has more (not naming all that do, but this is the top names).

I guess these guys aren't smart, can't read defenses, and take too many chances. Just turnover MACHINES!! :lol:

[Northman]

Seems that everyone is talking how Cutler is a "turnover machine" (which is actually inaccurate). He's led the NFL in INTs ONE season.

People griped and laughed at Cutler last season for his turnovers. FIrst time in a new system, no good WRs, terrible OC, and a HORRENDOUS OL. Yet, look at all the QBs in the NFL that have higher numbers of INTs this season.... Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, Brett Favre, and Tony Romo still has more (not naming all that do, but this is the top names).

I guess these guys aren't smart, can't read defenses, and take too many chances. Just turnover MACHINES!! :lol:


Yep. Thats one reason why i pointed to Manning. 11 Ints in the last 3 games is HORRIBLE. Yet, notice all the excuses he gets when he doesnt have all the pieces around him to succeed. Funny how that works.

[tomjonesrocks]

People have some revisionist history going on regarding this topic. Cutler is made out to be far whinier and whatnot than he actually was when he was here. I don't remember many complaints about 'attitude' on forums when he was an active Bronco.

Think it's kind of when you get dumped by a hot chick and suddenly she's a terrible person. Sorry, she's still hot and not as bad as you suddenly say she is.

Also overlooked is Cutler was absolutely right. He thought it would suck playing for McD and it would have. McD stupidly tried to trade him and Cutler took advantage of it to ****. McD hasn't made him regret his decision.

Unless Tebow miraculously exceeds my expectations (and none of my expectations have been exceeded since McD was hired save Lloyd's production) this franchise isn't done paying for the retarded Cutler trade. The picks thudded have essentially been pissed away and soon the coach that created this cluster will be out with nothing but ruin in his wake.

Good times.

[Gimpygod]

Gee no surprise you stepped in to defend Cutler!!

I won't disagree with you about how McDaniels treats people but I believe it all started with Cutler and I'll leave it at that!!

so you are going to stick with this stance regardless of facts and evidence we have gained over the ensuing two years? We now know for a fact McDaniels will lie to get himself out of trouble, get what he wants etc. There is absolutely no way he intentionally hired a known cheater who then cheated for him unknowingly. Those video guys work over 80 hours a week and don't have spare time for elective duties, the dude was told what to videotape and took the fall like a good soldier… Exactly like the first time he was caught cheating. We also know the McDaniels can't get along with many people, Cutler was simply the first here. Unlike many of the other people McDaniels rubbed The Wrong Way, Cutler had options because of his physical gifts and the rarity of a quarterback with his talents. There are very few people who are not stupid that would stay in a bad situation they didn't need to put up with. I think a lot of people vilify Cutler to make themselves feel better about the situation the Broncos are in with this mess of a head coach. Kind of like how the ex-wife/ex-husband has to be a bad guy and complete a hole… After all, the villain couldn't be on our side!

[Buff]

Seems that everyone is talking how Cutler is a "turnover machine" (which is actually inaccurate).

Have you ever seen him play?

[BroncoStud]

People have some revisionist history going on regarding this topic. Cutler is made out to be far whinier and whatnot than he actually was when he was here. I don't remember many complaints about 'attitude' on forums when he was an active Bronco.

Think it's kind of when you get dumped by a hot chick and suddenly she's a terrible person. Sorry, she's still hot and not as bad as you suddenly say she is.

Also overlooked is Cutler was absolutely right. He thought it would suck playing for McD and it would have. McD stupidly tried to trade him and Cutler took advantage of it to ****. McD hasn't made him regret his decision.

Unless Tebow miraculously exceeds my expectations (and none of my expectations have been exceeded since McD was hired save Lloyd's production) this franchise isn't done paying for the retarded Cutler trade. The picks thudded have essentially been pissed away and soon the coach that created this cluster will be out with nothing but ruin in his wake.

Good times.

The ONLY time Cutler showed me he was immature was when he and Rivers met at the 50 yard line and Rivers stood there looking him in the eye while Cutler looked at the ground to avoid contact with him... Other than that Jay was fine with me. I think he would have seta lot of records in this offense.

If noodle-armed Orton can toss for this many yards imagine what Cutler could have done. :shocked:

[Ravage!!!]

Have you ever seen him play?

Yes.. have you? Have you watched him this season? I have, a lot. He makes plays on the moves, and is CONSTANTLY on the move with that OL. I've watched him run for first downs and continue drives, and I've watched him lead his team to a 9-3 record.

I know I know. YOu want to give ALL the credit to the defense. But the defense didn't throw for 4 TDs and beat the Eagles.

[tomjonesrocks]

The ONLY time Cutler showed me he was immature was when he and Rivers met at the 50 yard line and Rivers stood there looking him in the eye while Cutler looked at the ground to avoid contact with him... Other than that Jay was fine with me. I think he would have seta lot of records in this offense.




Cutler kind of dropped his head or would act annoyed if things aren't working.

Peyton Manning does pretty much the same.

[Ravage!!!]

Cutler kind of dropped his head or would act annoyed if things aren't working.

Peyton Manning does pretty much the same.

Everyone has their way. I remember people moaning about how Marino would yell to/at his players. None of the players complained, just the fans here about him.

[Nomad]

Well Gimpy, you and Ravage are correct in notion that McDaniels is hard to believe and does not work well with others!

As far as making myself feel better by villifying Cutler, nah, I never wanted him to be a BRONCO in the first place, so that nonsense doesn't work with me!

Do I believe Bowlen promised Cutler too much and he didn't like McDaniels from day 1 and snubbed him which prompted McDaniels taking the step of acquiring Cassel.....you damn right I do! Were both wrong and immature about the whole thing...yes!

Anyway, have a good day Gimpy and I hope your feeling ok!!

[arapaho2]

Have you ever seen him play?


whats so wrong with your view is
four of the top 5 qbs this yr in ints, have a lombardy
3 have leauge mvps

in his first 5 seasons cutler has thrown 73 ints

in elways first 5 seasons he threw 76


of course jay isnt john....but to label a young qb because of ints early in his career is pretty stupid

[Gimpygod]

Well Gimpy, you and Ravage are correct in notion that McDaniels is hard to believe and does not work well with others!

As far as making myself feel better by villifying Cutler, nah, I never wanted him to be a BRONCO in the first place, so that nonsense doesn't work with me!

Do I believe Bowlen promised Cutler too much and he didn't like McDaniels from day 1 and snubbed him which prompted McDaniels taking the step of acquiring Cassel.....you damn right I do! Were both wrong and immature about the whole thing...yes!

Anyway, have a good day Gimpy and I hope your feeling ok!!

so you disagree with me yet are still nice and show concern for my well-being…:shocked: Hulk confused, puny Banner taking over mind! (Comic book reference) I'm doing okay, Ralph Nader got my pain medication banned so now I'm taking something different which makes me feel real creepy and I can feel my hair… And I don't mean touch my hair I mean feel my hair! Which, after reading some of my posts, leads me to believe I'm way more surly than usual. And usually I'm not surly at all. Thanks for asking and sorry about the TMI.

[TXBRONC]

See. I have a hard time believing this considering we've seen McD unable to get along with SOOO many people! McD seems to be the one to prove, over and over again, that HE is the one that has the attitude. Whether it be with players, OR, Coaches! Even coaches on his staff, RIGHT NOW, have talked about how McD treats people like shit. How is it hard to believe, that when Cutler met up with him in person, that McD didn't do the same thing he's proved to do with everyone else, since?

I also don't think he gave Cutler a chance, since he was trying to trade him away (for Matt Cassel of all people) before they even had a SINGLE practice together.

Exactly, there is an established pattern of McDaniels clashing with both players and staff to not justl lay the whole Cutler cluster _____ at Jay's feet.

[ursamajor]

Yea I love diabetic, drunk, turnover machines.

I prefer my turnover machines to have gumpish southern drawls, and 8" foreheads.

[sneakers]

I wish we still had John Elway as our quarterback...

[ursamajor]

Yep. Thats one reason why i pointed to Manning. 11 Ints in the last 3 games is HORRIBLE. Yet, notice all the excuses he gets when he doesnt have all the pieces around him to succeed. Funny how that works.

Know what else is crazy about the Manning situation, in comparison to Cutler's? Manning is one of the least sacked, least pressured QBs this year. Jay is the most.

Since the bye, Jay has been playing the best football of his career. Not fantasy wise, or stats wise. But he is playing situational football, and playing situational football well is playing winning football. When he needs to score and score often, he is. When he needs to play a ball controlled offense, and eat clock, he is.

Along with the Bears' oline giving up the most sacks, they are also the most penalized. False starts and holds like clockwork. I can't even count how many times Jay faces 3rd and long because of penalties, and like clockwork, he is converting them.

He was showing this last season too. With a crappy oline, and a receiving corps consisting of a 5th round rookie, a 2nd year receiver with no career catches, a guy who spent his entire career on other team's practice squads, and a converted DB, Jay threw 27 tds. Yes he had 26 picks, but he was still producing.

While I feel bad to see what McD did to the Broncos, I am very happy that Jay is a Bear. Always have been.

[Northman]

Know what else is crazy about the Manning situation, in comparison to Cutler's? Manning is one of the least sacked, least pressured QBs this year. Jay is the most.

Since the bye, Jay has been playing the best football of his career. Not fantasy wise, or stats wise. But he is playing situational football, and playing situational football well is playing winning football. When he needs to score and score often, he is. When he needs to play a ball controlled offense, and eat clock, he is.

Along with the Bears' oline giving up the most sacks, they are also the most penalized. False starts and holds like clockwork. I can't even count how many times Jay faces 3rd and long because of penalties, and like clockwork, he is converting them.

He was showing this last season too. With a crappy oline, and a receiving corps consisting of a 5th round rookie, a 2nd year receiver with no career catches, a guy who spent his entire career on other team's practice squads, and a converted DB, Jay threw 27 tds. Yes he had 26 picks, but he was still producing.

While I feel bad to see what McD did to the Broncos, I am very happy that Jay is a Bear. Always have been.


Yea, for me ive loved the potential talent that Jay has but it was the immaturity and mechanics problem that he needed to work on. But with the last few games ive been able to see Jay mature as a player and play "smarter" football by utilizing the talent around him. He seems to GET IT now and its coming along nicely. He may still make a mistake here or there but overall he has progressed very well. He's allowing the run game to help and letting his defense take care of business.

[ursamajor]

Yea, for me ive loved the potential talent that Jay has but it was the immaturity and mechanics problem that he needed to work on. But with the last few games ive been able to see Jay mature as a player and play "smarter" football by utilizing the talent around him. He seems to GET IT now and its coming along nicely. He may still make a mistake here or there but overall he has progressed very well. He's allowing the run game to help and letting his defense take care of business.

Yeah, he sees that he doesn't always have to try to do it all himself. He better understands game to game, and drive to drive the kind of football that his team needs him to play. Last week against Detroit the Bears D was struggling in the 1st half. So Jay played to keep the ball out of the Lions hands in the second half.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Not Kyle Orton the Garbage Man. Here is why

Jay Cutler
Behind 1-8 points:
65% comp
8.5 avg
9 TDs
5 INTs
98.3 QBR

4th Quarter +/- 7 points
67.3% comp
8.1 avg
5 TDs
2 INTs
108.1 QBR


Here are Orton's stats in the same situations.

Behind 1-8 points:
52.8% comp
6.4 avg
2 TDs
5 INTs
61.2 QBR

4th QTR +/- 7 points
49.3% comp
5.5 avg
1 TD
2 INT
58.4 QBR

You can win in the playoffs with Jay Cutler. Not Kyle Orton. In fact, you can't even make the playoffs with Kyle Orton!

They are using cutler as a game manager over there in chicago. if you wish you had cutler go be a bear fan. Kyle orton has out played jay cutler. the stats dont lie. cutler is never down more than 4-7 points with that bears defense. therefor the bears dont have to put the game on cutlers back.

[Truth]

They are using cutler as a game manager over there in chicago. if you wish you had cutler go be a bear fan. Kyle orton has out played jay cutler. the stats dont lie. cutler is never down more than 4-7 points with that bears defense. therefor the bears dont have to put the game on cutlers back.

What stats? Look at the ones I posted smart guy. I'm sorry that Cutler doesn't pad his stats when being down by multiple scores. Cutler is one of the most clutch QBs in the NFL. Orton is one of the least clutch. Orton is Garbage Man.

[Dirk]

What stats? Look at the ones I posted smart guy. I'm sorry that Cutler doesn't pad his stats when being down by multiple scores. Cutler is one of the most clutch QBs in the NFL. Orton is one of the least clutch. Orton is Garbage Man.

Pffffft......sorry that was me spitting my coffee out when I read that.


I'll give you that Cutty has a ton of talent, but one of the most clutch in the NFL? LMAO.

[TimTebow15MVP]

cutler is never down multiple scores! did you see how they won last week with a BS roughing the passer so called elbow to cutlers head as chicago failed on 4th and long? that penalty ended up giving them the lead. did u see the td he threw to olsen where he jkuss lobs it up for grabs? come on dude

[Truth]

Pffffft......sorry that was me spitting my coffee out when I read that.


I'll give you that Cutty has a ton of talent, but one of the most clutch in the NFL? LMAO.

His 4th qtr +/- 7 pts, point differential being 1-8 points, and final 2 minutes of the half are among the best in the NFL. There is also this.

In fact, he's one of the most clutch QBs of the last 10 years. This is an article from last offseason, btw and wth how clutch he has been this season, he's going to move up a few spots:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ramblings/2010/guest-column-adjusted-comeback-efficiency

Now, please show me how he is NOT clutch. I mean, besides "spitting out your coffee." You have zero proof and I have all the proof.

[Truth]

cutler is never down multiple scores! did you see how they won last week with a BS roughing the passer so called elbow to cutlers head as chicago failed on 4th and long? that penalty ended up giving them the lead. did u see the td he threw to olsen where he jkuss lobs it up for grabs? come on dude

are you simply making things up? Chicago never failed on 4th and long. That "bogus" UNNECESSARY ROUGHNESS penalty didn't mean a damn thing. If they never called it, it would have been 2nd and 2 from the Detroit 15 as the Bears were driving yet again. The Bears were going to score anyway.

Also, that Olsen TD was NOT up for grabs. He threw it to the perfect spot, where he was supposed to throw it. The only QB who consistently throws ball up for grabs is Orton. Do you watch football? lol

[Dirk]

Here is a little data on Jay -

% Pass completed, Close Games 63.6 – Ranked 11th
% Pass completed, 4th quarter 62.3 – Ranked 13th
QB Rating inside Opponents ’10 Not in the top 20
QB Rating inside Opponents ’20 Not in the top 20
% Completion inside Opp ’10 54.5 - Ranked 14th
% Completion inside Opp ’20 59.1 - Ranked 12th
Pass Attempts Not in the top 20
Pass completions Not in the top 20
Touchdowns Passing 4th Qtr Ranked 14th
% First downs 3rd and Long Not in the top 20


Now like I said, Cutty has talent. And to show I’m not cherry picking I will provide some of that data also.

% Touchdowns/Attempt 5.3 – Ranked 9th
% First downs 3rd and medium Ranked 6th
% First downs 3rd and Short Ranked 6th

There are several other stats on the site but I didn't feel like getting them all. My point being is that Cutty has talent, but I don't consider him to be one of the most clutch QBs in the NFL much less of the past 10 years. But hey, to each their own. I won't argue the fact with ya. Obviously you like the guy which is fine.

http://stats.nj.com/fb/

[BeefStew25]

All he does is win games. Right?

[Truth]

Here is a little data on Jay -

% Pass completed, Close Games 63.6 – Ranked 11th
% Pass completed, 4th quarter 62.3 – Ranked 13th
QB Rating inside Opponents ’10 Not in the top 20
QB Rating inside Opponents ’20 Not in the top 20
% Completion inside Opp ’10 54.5 - Ranked 14th
% Completion inside Opp ’20 59.1 - Ranked 12th
Pass Attempts Not in the top 20
Pass completions Not in the top 20
Touchdowns Passing 4th Qtr Ranked 14th
% First downs 3rd and Long Not in the top 20


Now like I said, Cutty has talent. And to show I’m not cherry picking I will provide some of that data also.

% Touchdowns/Attempt 5.3 – Ranked 9th
% First downs 3rd and medium Ranked 6th
% First downs 3rd and Short Ranked 6th

There are several other stats on the site but I didn't feel like getting them all. My point being is that Cutty has talent, but I don't consider him to be one of the most clutch QBs in the NFL much less of the past 10 years. But hey, to each their own. I won't argue the fact with ya. Obviously you like the guy which is fine.

http://stats.nj.com/fb/

None of those show clutchness. the stats I posted do. Not to mention his stats look worse because of a 4 game stretch where he got concussed, missed time, and wasn't sharp when he returned. Since the bye week, he has been automatic, especially on 3rd down. Please tell me how the stats I showed are not stats involving clutchness? He leads the NFL in 4th quarter game winning drives as well, which I forgot to add. Again, look it up

4th qtr +/- 7 points
Point differential 1-8 points
Final two minutes of a half

Touchdowns in the 4th don't mean as much as when it is the 4th and it's a CLOSE GAME. He also missed time, so his totals are not as high as they could be. Not to mention you don't need to score TDs to win in the 4th quarter. Sometimes you just need to drive the team down field for a FG (cough Orton cough).


None of your stats actually show CLUTCH. Mine do, sorry.

[Dirk]

Like I said, I'm not going to argue with you because obviously you are a big fan.

[Truth]

Like I said, I'm not going to argue with you because obviously you are a big fan.

4th QTR +/- 7
Final 2 minutes of half
Point differential 1-8
Performance when the game is close late

I posted them and he is clearly among the best in the NFL

completion percentage doesn't mean anything when you are taking the team down field anyway. Success rate (that adjusted comeback efficiency thing I posted) on drives when the game is on the line is all that matters. Cutler has been one of the most consistently successful QBs when his team needs him to drive them down field. Period.

[BroncoNut]

Yea, im not clammoring for us to have him back. But im not sold on the idea that we wouldnt be just as successful if not better without him. I mean, McD is SUPPOSED to be a QB guy and considering the work he has done with Orton i think its safe to say had he given Jay a chance he would of done well.

Not saying McD's not to share in the blame, but I don't think Jay gave him much of a chance ttytt. He seems like a snotty little turd ttytt. other than that, he is better than Orton

[Dzone]

Given Mcdaniels track record of not being able to get along with people, I now tend to believe Cutlers side of the story. Cutler knew early on that this guy was nobody he wanted to play for. I used to think Cutler was the bad guy in that drama. Now we all know Mcdaniels is a jerk. A way bigger jerk than Cutler

[BroncoJoe]

Guys, Cutler isn't coming back.

[BroncoNut]

Guys, Cutler isn't coming back.

You never know. If Shanahan comes back, I would think there would be a possibility

[BroncoJoe]

You never know. If Shanahan comes back, I would think there would be a possibility

Nut, you need to remember to take your meds.

[TXBRONC]

They are using cutler as a game manager over there in chicago. if you wish you had cutler go be a bear fan. Kyle orton has out played jay cutler. the stats dont lie. cutler is never down more than 4-7 points with that bears defense. therefor the bears dont have to put the game on cutlers back.

Every quarterback manages a game but there is huge difference between being a game manager like Kyle Orton who wont win or lose you many games those kind of quarterbacks are not clutch performers. Cutler is capable and has already put a team on his back a lead them to victories. Just because he hasn't had to do it much does mean he just a game manager like Orton.

Only being down by 4-7 is not necessarily definitive of being a game manager. Being down by that much and not being able to deliver is more definitive of being a game manager. We've been down by a 4-7 point margin five times this year and four of those we've held the ball for last meaningful offensive possession with a chance to win the game. The other game we sorta had the ball for the last meaningful possession but decided to punt the ball away. How many of those games did we win? The answer is none.

In the end, Orton has some gaudy stat but we're 3-9 Jay's stats but his team is 9-3 so who is really having the better season? Imho it's the guy whose team is a position to win his division and be one of the top seeds in the playoffs is having the better year. Those stats don't lie either.

[BroncoStud]

I'll take Cutler all day long over Orton. I don't even think it's close. Orton got benched for Rex Grossman and Cutler is leading the Bears to the playoffs...

[Juriga72]

New guy here.....
Sadly after watching Plummer get the hook in 07 and seeing what Jay can do.... Yeah I would want him back.

I was never sold on Orton, even at 6-0 last year... Iknew it was the defense that won games not Kyle.

I just looked at the Bears season on NFL.com....
Game winning 4th quarter drives:
week 1 V Detroit ( Still does this count? its Detroit)
week 3 Packers
week 9 Bills
week 13 Detroit II....

After watching Kyle fail in these same positions over and over...this year

[Northman]

cutler is never down multiple scores! did you see how they won last week with a BS roughing the passer so called elbow to cutlers head as chicago failed on 4th and long? that penalty ended up giving them the lead. did u see the td he threw to olsen where he jkuss lobs it up for grabs? come on dude

Suh clearly threw his forerms into the back of Jay's head. All he had to do was tackle him instead he took the cheap shot route. You may not like the guy but dont try posting BS like that. :lol:

[Nomad]

Your an idiot. Suh clearly threw his forerms into the back of Jay's head. All he had to do was tackle him instead he took the cheap shot route. You may not like the guy but dont try posting BS like that. :lol:

Follow you're own advice and try not to attack the poster just because his view is different than yours!!;)

[Northman]

Follow you're own advice and try not to attack the poster just because his view is different than yours!!;)

Thanks NoMOD. ;)

Report the post, dont make it about me.

[Ravage!!!]

They are using cutler as a game manager over there in chicago. if you wish you had cutler go be a bear fan. Kyle orton has out played jay cutler. the stats dont lie. cutler is never down more than 4-7 points with that bears defense. therefor the bears dont have to put the game on cutlers back.

This is whats wrong with kids that grow up playing fantasy football. They want to purely look at the stat sheet, and not the play.

NO WAY in hell, Orton can stay on the field if he was behind Chicago's OL... no way in HELL. Cutler makes plays with his feet running, and makes plays with his feet buying time to put the ball downfield. Cutler has proved, again, that he's the better QB, and isn't folding under pressure like Orton has proved to do over and over and over again.

[Nomad]

Thanks NoMOD. ;)

Report the post, dont make it about me.

Same here next time you decide to play mod with me!! but I forgot you do no wrong and know all!!

[Northman]

Same here next time you decide to play mod with me!! but I forgot you do no wrong and know all!!

I dont do anything wrong and do know it all. I thought you knew that? :D

[Tned]

We'd be leading the division and ready to clinch the playoffs this Sunday in AZ if we still had Cutler at the helm...

[BigDaddyBronco]

We'd be leading the division and ready to clinch the playoffs this Sunday in AZ if we still had Cutler at the helm...

Then he would get loaded and go into a diabetic shock. No thanks.

[arapaho2]

Then he would get loaded and go into a diabetic shock. No thanks.


geee you had to go the classy route didnt you:rolleyes:

[silkamilkamonico]

I do not understand. Cutler and Orton are 2 average NFL Qb's. Cutler is a better QB than Orton and I think it's proved this year.

If people want to play this game, I'll wish for John Elway to come back.

[G_Money]

Cutler isn't SO good that we have no prayer of replacing him.

We didn't lose Elway/Brees/Elder Manning/Brady/Roethlisberger.

I was behind Cutler as the long term solution to our QB problem, but he's not a HOFer. I can get Cutler-level production out of a different QB.

Which is our new task as we go forward - along with fixing the D and adding consistently good players to the team. I'm curious to see whether we run with Orton or Tebow in 2011, but either way I have more pressing concerns about that Broncos team.

The bar set by Jay Cutler can be surpassed. And that's speaking as a Cutler fan.

~G

[Nomad]

Cutler isn't SO good that we have no prayer of replacing him.

We didn't lose Elway/Brees/Elder Manning/Brady/Roethlisberger.

I was behind Cutler as the long term solution to our QB problem, but he's not a HOFer. I can get Cutler-level production out of a different QB.

Which is our new task as we go forward - along with fixing the D and adding consistently good players to the team. I'm curious to see whether we run with Orton or Tebow in 2011, but either way I have more pressing concerns about that Broncos team.

The bar set by Jay Cutler can be surpassed. And that's speaking as a Cutler fan.

~G

WOW! You're going to tear the hearts out of many here who swear by Cutler and treat your posts as gospel!!

[ursamajor]

cutler is never down multiple scores! did you see how they won last week with a BS roughing the passer so called elbow to cutlers head as chicago failed on 4th and long? that penalty ended up giving them the lead. did u see the td he threw to olsen where he jkuss lobs it up for grabs? come on dude

LOL! It was 1st and ten, not 4th and long. Had the penalty not happened, it would have been 2nd and 2 from the 14.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120505/2010/REG13/bears@lions#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

1-10-DET 22 (9:06) 6-J.Cutler scrambles right end to DET 14 for 8 yards (90-N.Suh). PENALTY on DET-90-N.Suh, Unnecessary Roughness, 7 yards, enforced at DET 14.

I think if one is to make up stories, one should "go big" or not at all. Like:

"Did you catch last nights Dateline? Colombo and Monk uncovered evidence linking Jay Cutler to Lincoln's assasination."

or

"A photo was recently discovered showing Jay Cutler sneaking out of O'Leary's barn. Moments later flames erupted, that set the entire city of Chicago ablaze. Old handwritten accounts said that Jay was seen leaving town pouting, while looking for Head Coaches to get fired".

See, much better.

BTW the TD that Jay threw was to Manu. And it was not a "lob".

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120505/2010/REG13/bears@lions#tab:watch

[Watchthemiddle]

We'd be leading the division and ready to clinch the playoffs this Sunday in AZ if we still had Cutler at the helm...

Um you have CLEARLY NOT seen the Bears play this season...

Cutler is NOT the reason the Bears are 9-3.....it's all about Urlacker and the D and always will be.

Jay is the ULTIMATE game manager...ha ha ha ha :elefant:

Did you see the game he was hurt??? Still won.

Game manager Cutler...that is what he is and will always be as long as they have a good D in Chi-town.

:laugh::laugh:

[Northman]

WOW! You're going to tear the hearts out of many here who swear by Cutler and treat your posts as gospel!!

G-money is a great poster and i agree with a lot of things he says. But its WAY to early to write Cutler off as a HOF so on this we definitely disagree. I dont hold his word as gospel, its just called respect.

[Watchthemiddle]

Cutler isn't SO good that we have no prayer of replacing him.

We didn't lose Elway/Brees/Elder Manning/Brady/Roethlisberger.

I was behind Cutler as the long term solution to our QB problem, but he's not a HOFer. I can get Cutler-level production out of a different QB.

Which is our new task as we go forward - along with fixing the D and adding consistently good players to the team. I'm curious to see whether we run with Orton or Tebow in 2011, but either way I have more pressing concerns about that Broncos team.

The bar set by Jay Cutler can be surpassed. And that's speaking as a Cutler fan.

~G

Cutler set a bar??? Maybe he SAT at a BAR:laugh:

If Orton can surpass the "Cutler" bar then that is bad....because he has demolished the Cutler bar.

Tebow has surpassed the Cutler bar...

Shoot......Quinn as the 3rd string QB has surpassed the Cutler bar

[Nomad]

G-money is a great poster and i agree with a lot of things he says. But its WAY to early to write Cutler off as a HOF so on this we definitely disagree. I dont hold his word as gospel, its just called respect.

:ohwell:okay!

[Northman]

:ohwell:okay!

Did my response bum you out? :lol:

[Juriga72]

Cutler set a bar??? Maybe he SAT at a BAR:laugh:

If Orton can surpass the "Cutler" bar then that is bad....because he has demolished the Cutler bar.

Tebow has surpassed the Cutler bar...

Shoot......Quinn as the 3rd string QB has surpassed the Cutler bar

Really.... Cutler has 4- 4th quarter comeback wins this year and the damn Bears have 9 wins.... WE have 3 total wins and our coach just got fired.

Unless you play Fantasy Football..... Wins > yards.

[Nomad]

Did my response bum you out? :lol:

Not at all man, carry on respecting!!

[Watchthemiddle]

Originally Posted by Northman
G-money is a great poster and i agree with a lot of things he says. But its WAY to early to write Cutler off as a HOF so on this we definitely disagree. I dont hold his word as gospel, its just called respect.

Jeff George and Ryan Leaf are HOF'ers also

Seriously??

Cutler was THE QB when he set a record....the record was not good...he was the QB and "leader" of a team that went from 8-5 to 8-8 ....the team to be 3 games in the lead with 3 to play and lost. Didn't even make the playoffs.

Thanks for playing Jay but your a fraud

[Watchthemiddle]

Really.... Cutler has 4- 4th quarter comeback wins this year and the damn Bears have 9 wins.... WE have 3 total wins and our coach just got fired.

Unless you play Fantasy Football..... Wins > yards.

Defense > Fraud QB's

[Northman]

Jeff George and Ryan Leaf are HOF'ers also

Seriously??

Where did i say that? Are you on drugs?


Cutler was THE QB when he set a record....the record was not good...he was the QB and "leader" of a team that went from 8-5 to 8-8 ....the team to be 3 games in the lead with 3 to play and lost. Didn't even make the playoffs.



Well, if its all based on just the QB we sure didnt get better because our current QB is a bigger loser in Denver the last 2 years. But since, i dont go by just that ill let you play your little game.

[G_Money]

:lol: I've said it before and I'll say it again: there are plenty of people here who know more about football than me. I talk about it because I like it, not because I'm angling for something from it. Whatever others get out of this ridiculous rambling, I'm glad to provide.

I'm also glad we'll be able to get back to talking about football instead of personalities, and discussing the rise of the Broncos instead of their wallowing in the muck.

My passion's for the game and the team, not shouting matches about who is right and who's a jerk.

Now that we know McDaniels is not gonna be here, hopefully we can get a few months of conversation instead of screaming out of this. :D

After all, following Shanahan in this town isn't as hard as following Elway, but it's in the ballpark for some people. Following McDaniels is like following Ryan Leaf. How can you look BAD?

Thanks for that parting gift, Josh! :salute:

~G

[Tned]

Um you have CLEARLY NOT seen the Bears play this season...

Cutler is NOT the reason the Bears are 9-3.....it's all about Urlacker and the D and always will be.

Jay is the ULTIMATE game manager...ha ha ha ha :elefant:

Did you see the game he was hurt??? Still won.

Game manager Cutler...that is what he is and will always be as long as they have a good D in Chi-town.

:laugh::laugh:

Didn't you get the text? There's an online rave over at Mania, where the old gang is getting together to bash 'Mikey', Cutler and Marshall and tout the greatness of McDaniels. You might want to check it out.

Oooops, I forgot, you can't post there anymore, can you....

[Lancane]

Anyone who says Cutler is not a good quarterback with the attributes to be an even better quarterback doesn't even know how to evaluate talent, and that is not gospel truth, just a fact.

Saying Orton is better then Cutler is like claiming that Locker is better then Luck, and who ever believes that should dump a can of kerosine into their shitter, place their heads deeply in the bowl and light a goddamn match, because in the end...it would have been a smarter move then claiming such outrageous bullshit.

Cutler is not great, but he does have the potential to be and I've seen a lot of talented quarterbacks over the years. Is he comparable to Payton Manning or Phillip Rivers? No, but he's better then 85% of those in the league, he's still growing and he's been without talented wideouts and sitting behind a pretty horrid offensive line...yes, the Bears' defense is superb, but not perfect and to claim he has nothing to do with those victories is idiotic.

[Northman]

Didn't you get the text? There's an online rave over at Mania, where the old gang is getting together to bash 'Mikey', Cutler and Marshall and tout the greatness of McDaniels. You might want to check it out.

Oooops, I forgot, you can't post there anymore, can you....

Damn dude, thats low. :lol:

[Watchthemiddle]

Didn't you get the text? There's an online rave over at Mania, where the old gang is getting together to bash 'Mikey', Cutler and Marshall and tout the greatness of McDaniels. You might want to check it out.

Oooops, I forgot, you can't post there anymore, can you....

:confused::confused:

What??? Mr. COC ...what does this have to do with anything??

Mania wants me back...it says the Hypocrite that runs this place is a FRAUD

[Tned]

Anyone who says Cutler is not a good quarterback with the attributes to be an even better quarterback doesn't even know how to evaluate talent, and that is not gospel truth, just a fact.

Saying Orton is better then Cutler is like claiming that Locker is better then Luck, and who ever believes that should dump a can of kerosine into their shitter, place their heads deeply in the bowl and light a goddamn match, because in the end...it would have been a smarter move then claiming such outrageous bullshit.

Cutler is not great, but he does have the potential to be and I've seen a lot of talented quarterbacks over the years. Is he comparable to Payton Manning or Phillip Rivers? No, but he's better then 85% of those in the league, he's still growing and he's been without talented wideouts and sitting behind a pretty horrid offensive line...yes, the Bears' defense is superb, but not perfect and to claim he has nothing to do with those victories is idiotic.

You know the game, you've seen it play out over the years, MOST, not all, but MOST, of the Cutler bashers, including those that compare him to Jeff George or Ryan Leaf (which of course is so asinine, that those posters lose all credibility) are almost all former big, big time Plummer fans, who never forgave 'mikey' or Cutler for Plummer being replaced.

It's not real criticism, it's five years worth of pent up hurt feelings.

[Watchthemiddle]

You know the game, you've seen it play out over the years, MOST, not all, but MOST, of the Cutler bashers, including those that compare him to Jeff George or Ryan Leaf (which of course is so asinine, that those posters lose all credibility) are almost all former big, big time Plummer fans, who never forgave 'mikey' or Cutler for Plummer being replaced.

It's not real criticism, it's five years worth of pent up hurt feelings.

Baby...CUtler is gone....:laugh: Get over it MR. Move on...Practice what you preach..

[TXBRONC]

:confused::confused:

What??? Mr. COC ...what does this have to do with anything??

Mania wants me back...it says the Hypocrite that runs this place is a FRAUD

Two things for ya WTM

1.) Why are you baiting people? Things have been fairly civil all things considered. So what you're doing is uncalled for.

2.) The people you're baiting are not the topic the thead.

It's ok to differ but lets not turn this into pissing contest. :focus:

[Tned]

:confused::confused:

What??? Mr. COC ...what does this have to do with anything??

Mania wants me back...it says the Hypocrite that runs this place is a FRAUD

Man, sorry, didn't mean to strike a nerve. You have a link to Mania in your sig, so I didn't realize you were so sensitive to the "situation". My bad.

[Tned]

Baby...CUtler is gone....:laugh: Get over it MR. Move on...Practice what you preach..

You Hi-fived yourself, that is so, so sad. You do realize that you don't get any CP here, right?

Let me give you a little :elefant: to make you feel better... ;)

[Watchthemiddle]

Two things for ya WTM

1.) Why are baiting people? Things have been fairly civil all things considered. So what you doing is uncalled for.

2.) The people you're baiting are not the topic the thead.

It's ok to differ but lets not turn this into pissing contest. :focus:
My MAN TX, as much as we have disagreed on things I have always respected you.

You can't sit here and tell me MR. Tned did not BAIT with his Mania jabs??? Really?? WE want to talk Bait?? I talked about Cutler..and Cutler, Jeff George, and Leaf ONLY.......Where does he get OFF Baiting me???

[jhildebrand]

Mania wants me back...it says the Hypocrite that runs this place is a FRAUD

So Tned is not only a hypocrite but a fraud as well? :confused:

Please elaborate. I also laugh everytime I see you hi five your own pathetic posts.

You, sir, are a master baiter!

[Watchthemiddle]

So Tned is not only a hypocrite but a fraud as well? :confused:

Please elaborate. I also laugh everytime I see you hi five your own pathetic posts.

You, sir, are a master baiter!

Another Personall JAB....nice.

Hey, thanks for reading my post.....and taking the pathetic time to notice I highfived myself.

Thats pathetic.

[jhildebrand]

Another Personall JAB....nice.

Hey, thanks for reading my post.....and taking the pathetic time to notice I highfived myself.

Thats pathetic.

I can be pathetic at times :D I have no problem admitting that. :noidea:

But I don't call out Tned with the accusations you have and nothing to support them. Just sayin.

You clearly are very upset McD got his just due. I get that. But I don't get trying to derail every single thread here. To each his own I guess.

[TXBRONC]

My MAN TX, as much as we have disagreed on things I have always respected you.

You can't sit here and tell me MR. Tned did not BAIT with his Mania jabs??? Really?? WE want to talk Bait?? I talked about Cutler..and Cutler, Jeff George, and Leaf ONLY.......Where does he get OFF Baiting me???

No I wont say he didn't throw a verb jab but come on WTM just let it go and lets try having a civil conversation.

[Juriga72]

Defense > Fraud QB's

I think that Cutler winning the "NFC Player of the Week" for his 4td passes aginst Philly would be a fraud too...

Or is it that you just cant even think that "Maybe... JUST maybe Cutler was right"..

Either way, Cutler has broken the "Jay can't lead a team to a winning record" mantra that followed him there.

I mean IF Kyle couldn't do it with the #12 scoring defense last year when will he do it...

[Watchthemiddle]

I can be pathetic at times :D I have no problem admitting that. :noidea:

But I don't call out Tned with the accusations you have and nothing to support them. Just sayin.

You clearly are very upset McD got his just due. I get that. But I don't get trying to derail every single thread here. To each his own I guess.

I am moving on....McD is gone....Cutler is gone....I am gone from Mania and all of that is in the past.....so why does Mr. COC need to bring that up???

It had/has nothing to do with the conversation.

I am over McD being gone...I have posted that over and over and over...it seems to me that SOME aren't over Man Crush Cutler being gone and need to take personal JABS at me...and the one doing it is the creator of this board and the COC creator.

All I am saying is I never made a JAB towards him but its okay for him to make a JAB at me???? If it wasn't for ME and many OTHERS this board would not exist.

[Watchthemiddle]

I think that Cutler winning the "NFC Player of the Week" for his 4td passes aginst Philly would be a fraud too...

Or is it that you just cant even think that "Maybe... JUST maybe Cutler was right"..

Either way, Cutler has broken the "Jay can't lead a team to a winning record" mantra that followed him there.

I mean IF Kyle couldn't do it with the #12 scoring defense last year when will he do it...

WHOOOOO HOOOOO:elefant: 4td's in a game.
:coffee:

[Watchthemiddle]

No I wont say he didn't throw a verb jab but come on WTM just let it go and lets try having civil conversation.

Bro,....it was civil until..............

[Juriga72]

WHOOOOO HOOOOO:elefant: 4td's in a game.
:coffee:

Woot 9 wins???

9 wins > 3 wins????

[Watchthemiddle]

Woot 9 wins???

9 wins > 3 wins????



Defense and good special teams > mediocre QB play.

:coffee:

[silkamilkamonico]

Defense and good special teams > mediocre QB play.

:coffee:

Winning is winning. Cutler has finally figured it out. i think what hurts these guys, is they have to finally admit that Cutler wasn't really that great in Denver, considering he couldn't win here.

Who would have thought the best thing for Cutler's career is to get away from Mike Shanahan?

[Tned]

If it wasn't for ME and many OTHERS this board would not exist.

If I had a dime for every time someone has claimed that...

Well, I would have 40 cents now....

[TXBRONC]

Winning is winning. Cutler has finally figured it out. i think what hurts these guys, is they have to finally admit that Cutler wasn't really that great in Denver, considering he couldn't win here.

Who would have thought the best thing for Cutler's career is to get away from Mike Shanahan?

No I don't think anyone has to admit he didn't do well in Denver. I think he did, the difference is better defense which as you know has been said.

[Tned]

Who would have thought the best thing for Cutler's career is to get away from Mike Shanahan?

True, and who would have thought the best thing for the Denver franchise would be getting away from Mike Shanahan.... Oh, wait....

[silkamilkamonico]

No I don't think anyone has to admit he didn't do well in Denver. I think he did, the difference is better defense which as you know has been said.

So why the fuss with Cutler? He's playing with a better defense than Rex Grossman did when he took Chicago too the SuperBowl. He's almost being elevated to Rex grossman status.

[Watchthemiddle]

Winning is winning. Cutler has finally figured it out. i think what hurts these guys, is they have to finally admit that Cutler wasn't really that great in Denver, considering he couldn't win here.

Who would have thought the best thing for Cutler's career is to get away from Mike Shanahan?

Good point.

Rumors have been flying that Shanny wants Cuttly in Wash.....:laugh

When we were 13-3 and playing in the AFCCG it was because of the Defense....not Plummer. When we lost the AFCCG, it was because of Plummer and not the D.

THe Bears are 9-3 because of the Defense...not Cutler....(psss...they won in a blowout when he was out hurt for a game)

If Jay was the reason the Bears were 9-3 you would be hearing MVP ...but you aren't.....

[Juriga72]

Defense and good special teams > mediocre QB play.

:coffee:

Well.... Looks like NFL.com has it wrong then.

Kyle Orton 20 td passes
Jay Cutler 17 td passes

Kyle Orton 93.0 qb rating
Jay Cutler 92.8 qb rating

Kyle Orton 35.7 1st down %
Jay Cutler 39.6 1st down %

Kyle Orton- 4th quarter (close) within 7 points- 58.4 qb rating
Jay Cutler- 4th quarter (close) within 7 points-108.1 qb rating


I think we can tell the "fraud QB" here.... Yeah I still wish we had him

[silkamilkamonico]

True, and who would have thought the best thing for the Denver franchise would be getting away from Mike Shanahan.... Oh, wait....

Shanahan + Cutler were 17-20. They were losers together. I think 1 of 2 decisions can come out of this.....

1) "why reach for greatness, when you can settle for almost being .500"?

2) Maybe Shanahan himself wasn't the problem, and the problem was him replacing Plunger, a QB that could actually win, for Cutler, a QB who couldn't?

[Day1BroncoFan]

NEWSFLASH:
Cutler will not be playing for the Denver Broncos anytime soon. :D

[CloudyFuture]

Long time lurker here and just love this debate. Anyways I just wanted to add some stats on Cutler since the Bears bye week:

Cutler is 90 for 137 for 1,062 yards for 67% completion% 10 TDs and 3 INTs

Cutler on 3rd down passing / running

29 for 42 for 69% 377 yards 2 TDs 2 INTs also running 5 times for 72 yards

converting 32 out of 47 3rd downs with his arm or legs plus getting into FG range on one run (that was made) since the bye

[silkamilkamonico]

Good point.

Rumors have been flying that Shanny wants Cuttly in Wash.....:laugh
.

I would laugh at that. For starters, McNabb is a better QB than Cutler. To build on to that, Shanahan has to remember that he lost his job because he banked it on a QB who couldn't win....Cutler. And finally, Shanahan might be an offensive "mastermind", but he certainly is no Mike Martz.

[Tned]

Shanahan + Cutler were 17-20. They were losers together. I think 1 of 2 decisions can come out of this.....

1) "why reach for greatness, when you can settle for almost being .500"?

2) Maybe Shanahan himself wasn't the problem, and the problem was him replacing Plunger, a QB that could actually win, for Cutler, a QB who couldn't?


Good point.

Rumors have been flying that Shanny wants Cuttly in Wash.....:laugh

When we were 13-3 and playing in the AFCCG it was because of the Defense....not Plummer. When we lost the AFCCG, it was because of Plummer and not the D.

THe Bears are 9-3 because of the Defense...not Cutler....(psss...they won in a blowout when he was out hurt for a game)

If Jay was the reason the Bears were 9-3 you would be hearing MVP ...but you aren't.....

Come on guys, Plummer was a pitiful excuse for a QB, who not only isn't with the Broncos anymore, but left the NFL in shame with his tail between his legs.

Get over it already, he's not coming back, no matter the crying.

[turftoad]

Long time lurker here and just love this debate. Anyways I just wanted to add some stats on Cutler since the Bears bye week:

Cutler is 90 for 137 for 1,062 yards for 67% completion% 10 TDs and 3 INTs

Cutler on 3rd down passing / running

29 for 42 for 69% 377 yards 2 TDs 2 INTs also running 5 times for 72 yards

converting 32 out of 47 3rd downs with his arm or legs plus getting into FG range on one run (that was made) since the bye

Great first post. Welcome aboard!!

[Juriga72]

Good point.

Rumors have been flying that Shanny wants Cuttly in Wash.....:laugh

When we were 13-3 and playing in the AFCCG it was because of the Defense....not Plummer. When we lost the AFCCG, it was because of Plummer and not the D.

THe Bears are 9-3 because of the Defense...not Cutler....(psss...they won in a blowout when he was out hurt for a game)

If Jay was the reason the Bears were 9-3 you would be hearing MVP ...but you aren't.....

Hmmmm Shanny just canned his 100 million dollar d-lineman, looks like he STILL doesnt understand defense....

He doesnt want Jay there he already has Rex "Sex Cannon" Grossman....

And YES... Cutler is the Chicago Offense... In the game he wasnt in... they ran it for 175 yards while the QB threw 4 picks ( Not Jay).

Did you happen to see the Bears get scored on by Detroit this week?? lol They gave up a 91 yard 2 play drive at halftime... 17 pts by Detroit in a half?

Of course it must kill you to see him throw for first downs PAST the markers tho. I mean 3rd and 4?? Lets throw a 3 yard pass !!!

[silkamilkamonico]

Also. Cutler is only 8-3 with Chicago.

Todd Collins is 1-0.

I think we might have a whole new twist to this argument.

[Cugel]

True, but then again our Oline is playing better than his. I guess my point is im all for giving Orton credit for how he is playing but this continued agenda that people have to rip Cutler just seems pointless to me. The kid is good and while he is still making some mistakes i can also see his progress. And lets not pretend that drama was all on him when it came to why he left. McD had his hand in that as well. So while Chicago has some good things going for it they have other issues that we dont have.

Northman, you have to understand that a bunch of fans jumped on the "Josh McDaniels is GREAT!" bandwagon early on and part of the membership dues was to attack everybody who ever criticized McDaniels -starting with Cutler.

McDaniels had a snit-fit when the deal with New England blew up in his face, and tried to pin the blame on Cutler. He refused to accept any responsibility for anything, and refused to apologize for anything. He refused to give Cutler any assurance he wouldn't STILL be traded the minute McDaniels could swing a deal.

So, Cutler left when McDaniels made it abundantly clear that Cutler had ZERO job security here. I would too. And all the "Cutler's a cry-baby" morons look pretty damn stupid now that their wunder-coach has proven an utter disaster. :coffee:

But, will they revisit the Cutler mess and realize that it was mostly McDaniels' fault for being a total immature ass-hat when he could have been the bigger man and said: "I tried to trade you. I'm sorry. I hope we can work together now and put this behind us. Why don't we shake on it and let bygones be bygones?"

That was what Cutler expected and would have ended the whole mess right there.

BUT NO! The "Cutler is a baby" idiots can't revise their opinions even when they're proven by history to be DEAD-WRONG! McDaniels is gone and Cutler has the Bears at 9-3 and headed for the playoffs.

McDaniels SUCKED from day 1. That's the verdict of history. The last holdouts can now all officially put away your Josh McDaniels homer-hats and realize that HE CAUSED HIS OWN PROBLEMS -- and one of the BIGGEST problems was when he tried to trade Cutler. That started the downhill slide that never stopped.

The point isn't that Orton is horrible. He's been about as good as you could expect for a player with marginal athletic skills. Kyle Orton is NOT the reason Denver's lost 9 games so far and is NOT the reason McDaniels got fired!

But, it's symptomatic of everything else McDaniels did wrong. He DOWNGRADED at the QB position, just as he downgraded virtually everything else around the team from Hillis and Torain down to Sheffler and Marshall. He brought in a bunch of expensive FAs on defense who haven't panned out.

I wasn't for keeping Shanny, but IS there ONE Bronco fan who thinks that if they'd kept Mike Shanahan the Broncos would EVER have fallen to 3-13 or 4-12? EVER? Me neither. :coffee:

[Juriga72]

Long time lurker here and just love this debate. Anyways I just wanted to add some stats on Cutler since the Bears bye week:

Cutler is 90 for 137 for 1,062 yards for 67% completion% 10 TDs and 3 INTs

Cutler on 3rd down passing / running

29 for 42 for 69% 377 yards 2 TDs 2 INTs also running 5 times for 72 yards

converting 32 out of 47 3rd downs with his arm or legs plus getting into FG range on one run (that was made) since the bye

Thats nothing.....

Kyle has repeatedly thrown 4 yard passes oin 3rd and 5!!!! I dont have stats on it... BUT I bet Kyle has that "1 less yard than what you need for a first down" throw down pat

[Watchthemiddle]

NEWSFLASH:
Cutler will not be playing for the Denver Broncos anytime soon. :D

:laugh::laugh:

:coffee:

[Dzone]

we should have seen he writing on the wall when Mcd blew it with Cutler...how can we possibly blame cutler now for telling Mcd to eff off

[Cugel]

No I don't think anyone has to admit he didn't do well in Denver. I think he did, the difference is better defense which as you know has been said.

NOBODY is going to lead their team to the playoffs with the #28th ranked defense. Cutler can't either. So, all the "Cutler can't win" B.S. is just that! If you don't have a defense and are constantly having to throw for 300+ yards just to catch up because your team has given up two TDs in the first quarter, it's tough to win.

Then Cutler went to Chicago where they have a HORRIBLE OL. He got sacked more his first season than in 3 seasons in Denver. He was harassed and hit and chased and sacked all game, every game. Now that there's a marginal improvement, he's showing what he can do. If they ever get an OL like Denver had in 2008 where Cutler was only sacked 6 times, he might prove to be the elite QB everybody projected for him when he went to the Pro-bowl.

[Watchthemiddle]

Thats nothing.....

Kyle has repeatedly thrown 4 yard passes oin 3rd and 5!!!! I dont have stats on it... BUT I bet Kyle has that "1 less yard than what you need for a first down" throw down pat

Way to prove your points with stats and facts

You should be listened too.

Hey, I have beachfront property in Arizona...I don't have the stats, but it is BIG and has a ocean view.

:coffee::coffee:

[Lancane]

NEWSFLASH:
Cutler will not be playing for the Denver Broncos anytime soon. :D

No shit...

NEWSFLASH:

Cutler and Bears are likely going to the playoffs while we have become a gutter team in the National Football League.

I think I'd rather have been in the playoffs! :coffee:

[Watchthemiddle]

NOBODY is going to lead their team to the playoffs with the #28th ranked defense. Cutler can't either.

Now that he has a decent defense, he has a chance to prove himself in the playoffs. Chicago's problem is that the Falcons look to be a better team this year so it's going to be tough for them to get to the SB. But, they might win a playoff game or even two depending on the matchups.

Wild card at best....Chicago WILL lose the next 3 out of 4 games.

Rogers will be MVP....Cutler will be again, a loser.

Mark!!!

:coffee:

[Tned]

NEWSFLASH:
Plummer will not be playing for the Denver Broncos anytime soon. :D


:laugh::laugh:

:coffee:

Here you go, I fixed it for you. Here's a virtual :tissue:

[Day1BroncoFan]

No shit...

NEWSFLASH:

Cutler and Bears are likely going to the playoffs while we have become a gutter team in the National Football League.

I think I'd rather have been in the playoffs! :coffee:

:listen: Spilled milk.

:coffee:

[Cugel]

Wild card at best....Chicago WILL lose the next 3 out of 4 games.

Rogers will be MVP....Cutler will be again, a loser.

Mark!!!

:coffee:

You just never give up do you? Can't admit you were just as wrong about Cutler as you were about McDaniels, and still are about Tebow (from your sig). :coffee:

[Watchthemiddle]

No shit...

NEWSFLASH:

Cutler and Bears are likely going to the playoffs while we have become a gutter team in the National Football League.

I think I'd rather have been in the playoffs! :coffee:

This just in...

Cutler has given half of his salary to the Bears Defense:defense: since he hasn't earned it.

Also, Cutler is not only known as the next Jeff George, but now known league wide as the next Trent Dilfer......he is the ultimate "game manager, don't lose the game for us QB"....:laugh:

[Tned]

This just in...

Cutler has given half of his salary to the Bears Defense:defense: since he hasn't earned it.

Also, Cutler is not only known as the next Jeff George, but now known league wide as the next Trent Dilfer......he is the ultimate "game manager, don't lose the game for us QB"....:laugh:

You of Plummer man-love are really calling Cutler a game manager? :lol: :laugh: :lol:

[BroncoBJ]

It only took Jay 9 years. Glad he has a winning record again. :elefant: I just wish we could win again. Makes me miss and apreciate Plummer. He may not have been the best QB but at least we won. And our defense was much better too. Funny how our defense just went to shit once he got benched.

[Juriga72]

Jay haters mantra-
"We'd rather lose with Kyle, in fact we have become VERY good at it"

I myself would rather watch a playoff game with my team playing in it, not telling everyone that i am happy a very good qb got away from us.....sigh

[Day1BroncoFan]

I'm not happy with Orton as a QB but Jay is still not coming back.

It is what it is.

[Lancane]

I'm not happy with Orton as a QB but Jay is still not coming back.

It is what it is.

No worries...

Orton won't be here long...he'll be following Plummer to the Pro-Handball League real soon!

:coffee:

[Day1BroncoFan]

No worries...

Orton won't be here long...he'll be following Plummer to the Pro-Handball League real soon!

:coffee:

Probably true. :tea:

[LordTrychon]

No worries...

Orton won't be here long...he'll be following Plummer to the Pro-Handball League real soon!

:coffee:

:laugh: They could make one hell of a team!

[Juriga72]

:laugh: They could make one hell of a team!

Kyle would trip over those lines on the floor......

[LordTrychon]

Kyle would trip over those lines on the floor......

Or just fall over when the ball got too close?

[Lancane]

Or just fall over when the ball got too close?

Then claim he had no defense...wait! :laugh:

Maybe they could get Josh McDaniels to coach them to a Championship, after all...all he did here was play with his balls!

:lol:

[Dreadnought]

No worries...

Orton won't be here long...he'll be following Plummer to the Pro-Handball League real soon!

:coffee:

Unfair. Orton is head and shoulders better than Jake was.

[Northman]

Unfair. Orton is head and shoulders better than Jake was.

Definitely. In fact, ill say it now. Had Orton played against Pitt in the AFCCG in 05' we dont lose that game.

[Lancane]

Definitely. In fact, ill say it now. Had Orton played against Pitt in the AFCCG in 05' we dont lose that game.

If he played like he did in Chicago in a West-Coast offensive system, then I dare say we would have and by more then we did! What we saw Sunday was what Chicago saw since drafting him...a lot of nothing.

;)

[Day1BroncoFan]

Definitely. In fact, ill say it now. Had Orton played against Pitt in the AFCCG in 05' we dont lose that game.

Unless we got behind early... oh wait.

[Watchthemiddle]

:laugh: They could make one hell of a team!

They would probably WIN the championship....or atleast not choke away a 3 game lead to the playoffs

[Watchthemiddle]

Kyle would trip over those lines on the floor......

Atleast he would receive the snap

[Juriga72]

I'll say it too..... IF Al Wilson doesnt hurt his neck... we win for a few more years

[Juriga72]

They would probably WIN the championship....or atleast not choke away a 3 game lead to the playoffs

Would he throw two pick sixes?

Maybe he would just keep hitting himself claiming "I need MORE protection from my o-line!!!"

[Softskull]

They would probably WIN the championship....or atleast not choke away a 3 game lead to the playoffs

Dude, really? This about a guy that's won three games this year? You'd have to go back alotta years to find a Broncos QB with that kind of winning percentage, certainly before '08.

[Ravage!!!]

Dude, really? This about a guy that's won three games this year? You'd have to go back alotta years to find a Broncos QB with that kind of winning percentage, certainly before '08.

He'll make every post he can to try and insult/ bash Cutler in an attempt to stir something up. Its all he knows how to do.

[Watchthemiddle]

Dude, really? This about a guy that's won three games this year? You'd have to go back alotta years to find a Broncos QB with that kind of winning percentage, certainly before '08.

Really.

That's why Jake is on his team.

Question: who was the last Denver QB to win a playoff game or lead his team to the playoffs?

Answer:_______________________

(Your turn)

Thanks for playing

:coffee:

[Watchthemiddle]

He'll make every post he can to try and insult/ bash Cutler in an attempt to stir something up. Its all he knows how to do.

Cutler is a Bear. Ha ha ha

I will bash Manning, Brady, Romo (Cutlers twin) and any other non-Bronco QB. Is that bad????

Oh ya....Cutler is a Bear....ha ha ha ......If McD did one thiing right it was trading the baby. LetNs see if All World can make it to the playoffs with a D behind him or choke it away again.

[Juriga72]

Really.

That's why Jake is on his team.

Question: who was the last Denver QB to win a playoff game or lead his team to the playoffs?

Answer:_______________________

(Your turn)

Thanks for playing

:coffee:

Let me see........ hmmmmm the guy who got becnhed 7 games AFTER he made the Pro bowl?

Here's a question......:

WHO is the ONLY Pro Bowl Quarterback to get benche during the NEXT year in the history of the Denver Broncos?

Answer:______________________________________


Thanks for playing......

[Juriga72]

He'll make every post he can to try and insult/ bash Cutler in an attempt to stir something up. Its all he knows how to do.

Well..... You know its Kyle Orton right???

[Dreadnought]

Let me see........ hmmmmm the guy who got becnhed 7 games AFTER he made the Pro bowl?

Here's a question......:

WHO is the ONLY Pro Bowl Quarterback to get benche during the NEXT year in the history of the Denver Broncos?

Answer:______________________________________


Thanks for playing......

Ooh! Ooh! I know! Wasn't he that guy who ammassed a QB rating of 68.8 for that season he got benched, (suitable for a 1955 team perhaps), lower even than Kordell Stewart's lifeting rating, and wll below that of any of his successor's seasons? i think i know the answer!

[Tned]

Cutler is a Bear. Ha ha ha

I will bash Manning, Brady, Romo (Cutlers twin) and any other non-Bronco QB. Is that bad????

Oh ya....Cutler is a Bear....ha ha ha ......If McD did one thiing right it was trading the baby. LetNs see if All World can make it to the playoffs with a D behind him or choke it away again.

Dude, Plummer has moved on, can't you follow his example? It's time to let it go. I know you think it's going to keep you warm, but all that hate's gonna burn you up (that one's for you G).

Man, rather than popping into threads to bash Cutler just to bait people, why not just move on and let it go. Plummer got benched BECAUSE OF PLUMMER, let it go.

[Juriga72]

Ooh! Ooh! I know! Wasn't he that guy who ammassed a QB rating of 68.8 for that season he got benched, (suitable for a 1955 team perhaps), lower even than Kordell Stewart's lifeting rating, and wll below that of any of his successor's seasons? i think i know the answer!

68.8???? WOW... thats even better than Kyles "4th quarter in close game +/- 7 pts" of 58.4 qb rating....

Golly gee Andy

[Softskull]

Really.

That's why Jake is on his team.

Question: who was the last Denver QB to win a playoff game or lead his team to the playoffs?

Answer:_______________________

(Your turn)

Thanks for playing

:coffee:

I'll play.

So your cornhole is still aching because one QB who's not on our team replaced another QB who's also not on our team. Ok, let's go.

And the answer is.....
the same guy who lost our last playoff game.
the same guy who tossed a whopping 18 tds that glorious season
the same guy who ended his career with 161 TD and 161 ints
the same guy who's career completion percentage was 57
the same guy who’s career QB rating was 75
the same guy I loved because of his heart, but hated because of his head

[Juriga72]

I'll play.

So your cornhole is still aching because one QB who's not on our team replaced another QB who's also not on our team. Ok, let's go.

And the answer is.....
the same guy who lost our last playoff game.
the same guy who tossed a whopping 18 tds that glorious season
the same guy who ended his career with 161 TD and 161 ints
the same guy who's career completion percentage was 57
the same guy who’s career QB rating was 75
the same guy I loved because of his heart, but hated because of his head

Didnt this guy have TWO interceptions AND lose TWO fumbles in the very same game?

Heck if you looked up the term "Turnover machine"... his picture is right there on the page

[I Eat Staples]

Huh? I thought the Bears were the "worst 3-0 team in history"...alon w/ the Chiefs.

:lol:

Nah, just the Chiefs.


anyone who thinks Orton is better than Cutler needs to have your head examined

As an Orton fan, I still agree with this.


Yea I love diabetic, drunk, turnover machines.

1. Not sure what his diabetes has to do with his talent.
2. Cutler has never been drunk on the field, what are you talking about?
3. The greatest QBs in the NFL throw interceptions. Fact.

[ursamajor]

Defense > Fraud QB's

I think Dilfer is going to take you off of his friends list for that remark.

[TXBRONC]

So why the fuss with Cutler? He's playing with a better defense than Rex Grossman did when he took Chicago too the SuperBowl. He's almost being elevated to Rex grossman status.

It's not me making a fuss Silk.

[ursamajor]

...make it to the playoffs with a D behind him or choke it away again.

That is enough of an accomplishment to be considered elite.

Rodgers' "Kick 6" to Dansby was one of the greatest chokejobs I have ever seen. It came on the play following him overthrowing a wide open Jennings, for what would have been the winning score.

[jhildebrand]

Heck if you looked up the term "Turnover machine"...

I looked it up because I didn't know who you guys were talking about. The dictionary I was using said see week one of the Broncos 2006 season. :noidea:

[Northman]

Unless we got behind early... oh wait.

Different Qb, different outcome which was my point. Having a QB not turning the ball over is benefit, not hinderance.

[Lancane]

For those who think Cutler, Marshall and Hillis are not missed, the Denver Post has a poll up titled 'What was the best reason for firing Josh McDaniels as coach of the Broncos, before he finished his second full season?'

Reason #1 - Wins and losses: Broncos under McDaniels lost 17 of their last 22 games, a clear indication the team was headed south at a furious clip.
5378 Votes, or 36.62 %

Reason #2 - Roster moves: All of a sudden we're bidding adieu to stars Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Peyton Hillis, Alphonso Smith ...
4958 Votes, or 33.76 %

Reason #3 - Spygate II: So many "-gates," so little time. Not too long after McJaygate, he was mired in a videotape scandal, a sequel that seemed to follow him from New England.
2156 Votes, or 14.68 %

The fact that nearly the same percentage of fans believed he deserved to be fired for trading away Cutler and company is near equal to those wanting him fired for just being a loser, and greater then those who thought he needed to be fired for being a cheater.

Cutler and company aren't missed here...nope, no sir! ;)

[TXBRONC]

For those who think Cutler, Marshall and Hillis are not missed, the Denver Post has a poll up titled 'What was the best reason for firing Josh McDaniels as coach of the Broncos, before he finished his second full season?'

Reason #1 - Wins and losses: Broncos under McDaniels lost 17 of their last 22 games, a clear indication the team was headed south at a furious clip.
5378 Votes, or 36.62 %

Reason #2 - Roster moves: All of a sudden we're bidding adieu to stars Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Peyton Hillis, Alphonso Smith ...
4958 Votes, or 33.76 %

Reason #3 - Spygate II: So many "-gates," so little time. Not too long after McJaygate, he was mired in a videotape scandal, a sequel that seemed to follow him from New England.
2156 Votes, or 14.68 %

The fact that nearly the same percentage of fans believed he deserved to be fired for trading away Cutler and company is near equal to those wanting him fired for just being a loser, and greater then those who thought he needed to be fired for being a cheater.

Cutler and company aren't missed here...nope, no sir! ;)

The wins and loses go hand in hand with the personnel choices that McDaniels made.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Different Qb, different outcome which was my point. Having a QB not turning the ball over is benefit, not hinderance.

Steelers scored first with no help from anyone except maybe our defense. Plummer was sacked and fumbles, something Orton himself may have done after being behind already.

I'm not an Orton basher and certainly not a Plummer lover but facts are facts and Orton is terrible when he's behind. I'm pretty sure having Orton wouldn't have helped our defense play any better either.

[Tned]

Steelers scored first with no help from anyone except maybe our defense. Plummer was sacked and fumbles, something Orton himself may have done after being behind already.

I'm not an Orton basher and certainly not a Plummer lover but facts are facts and Orton is terrible when he's behind. I'm pretty sure having Orton wouldn't have helped our defense play any better either.

That first fumble was completely unavoidable by Plummer. The LT or TE was so badly beat on a speed rush, that by the time Plummer (with his back pass rush on that side) planted at the end of the play action fake, and turned up field, the ball was stripped.

In fact, going all by memory here, I believe the RT was also beat on a speed rush, and Jake actually started to duck to the left (his blind side) right after turning up field from the play action and to avoid the pass rush on the right, only to have the ball stripped on his blind side.

[Northman]

Steelers scored first with no help from anyone except maybe our defense. Plummer was sacked and fumbles, something Orton himself may have done after being behind already.

I'm not an Orton basher and certainly not a Plummer lover but facts are facts and Orton is terrible when he's behind. I'm pretty sure having Orton wouldn't have helped our defense play any better either.


Defense had their fair share of problems thats for sure. I just went round and round with Tned on this also so like him i guess we will have to agree to disagree. When you change the circumstances for how one QB will perform vs another it changes the complexity of the game VASTLY. Like i told Tned, Orton isnt a HOF but he isnt someone who will self destruct as badly as Plummer either. I dont care who you are. You turn the ball over 4 times your going to lose. Just ask Peyton Manning.

[Day1BroncoFan]

That first fumble was completely unavoidable by Plummer. The LT or TE was so badly beat on a speed rush, that by the time Plummer (with his back pass rush on that side) planted at the end of the play action fake, and turned up field, the ball was stripped.

In fact, going all by memory here, I believe the RT was also beat on a speed rush, and Jake actually started to duck to the left (his blind side) right after turning up field from the play action and to avoid the pass rush on the right, only to have the ball stripped on his blind side.

You remember more of the details than me. I watched the game after the first quarter it was a meltdown.

[Tned]

Ok, I was just having a conversation about this with someone else, and then the topic came up in here, so I went and dug up a video I made (which is why the facts of that fumble were still embedded in my brain).

Sorry, it's not on youtube, so I can't embed it.

http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/affcgfirst_fumble.wmv

[Broncos Mtnman]

You know, it's kinda funny how certain posters said that the reason Cutler was a poor QB is because of his win/loss record.

And, they also say that his current win/loss record is because he has a defense.

So, my question is:

How come if he loses with a poor defense (ie. Denver) he sucks, yet if he wins with a good defense (ie. Chicago), he still sucks?

:confused:

[Northman]

You know, it's kinda funny how certain posters said that the reason Cutler was a poor QB is because of his win/loss record.

And, they also say that his current win/loss record is because he has a defense.

So, my question is:

How come if he loses with a poor defense (ie. Denver) he sucks, yet if he wins with a good defense (ie. Chicago), he still sucks?

:confused:


:lol:

I think you know the answer man.

[Tned]

You remember more of the details than me. I watched the game after the first quarter it was a meltdown.

As I was telling North in a PM, I broke down all the offensive plays, and the four turnovers in detail (neither fumble was on Jake), and re-watched that nightmare of a game probably more than any other Broncos game.

Big Ben was something like 8 for 11 on third downs in the first half. I'm pretty sure it was a playoff record for 3rd down conversions in a half (probably percent). The O-line could not stop their pass rush at all, and they couldn't create any running lanes. They were completely over-matched by Pitt's front seven.

Now, I'm not saying Jake played lights out, but there is NO way to pin the game on him, when the defense and O-line were so thoroughly overmatched. Add to that he was playing with the flu (or something like that), having to use oxygen between series, and it's crazy to pin that on Jake and even crazier to think that someone as immobile as Orton could withstand a rush like you see in that video I just linked to.

[Broncos Mtnman]

:lol:

I think you know the answer man.

Yeah, I know. But I figured I would see if those certain posters would try to defend their hypocrisy.

I won't hold my breath..... :lol:

[Day1BroncoFan]

You know, it's kinda funny how certain posters said that the reason Cutler was a poor QB is because of his win/loss record.

And, they also say that his current win/loss record is because he has a defense.

So, my question is:

How come if he loses with a poor defense (ie. Denver) he sucks, yet if he wins with a good defense (ie. Chicago), he still sucks?

:confused:

It's the tails I win, heads you lose method. :D

[Day1BroncoFan]

As I was telling North in a PM, I broke down all the offensive plays, and the four turnovers in detail (neither fumble was on Jake), and re-watched that nightmare of a game probably more than any other Broncos game.

Big Ben was something like 8 for 11 on third downs in the first half. I'm pretty sure it was a playoff record for 3rd down conversions in a half (probably percent). The O-line could not stop their pass rush at all, and they couldn't create any running lanes. They were completely over-matched by Pitt's front seven.

Now, I'm not saying Jake played lights out, but there is NO way to pin the game on him, when the defense and O-line were so thoroughly overmatched. Add to that he was playing with the flu (or something like that), having to use oxygen between series, and it's crazy to pin that on Jake and even crazier to think that someone as immobile as Orton could withstand a rush like you see in that video I just linked to.

I don't blame this loss on Jake, it was a team loss. My only interaction on this is that I just don't think Orton would have saved the day if he were there as was stated earlier. Had Orton been the QB we'd have still lost, but alas we'll never know.

[Tned]

I don't blame this loss on Jake, it was a team loss. My only interaction on this is that I just don't think Orton would have saved the day if he were there as was stated earlier. Had Orton been the QB we'd have still lost, but alas we'll never know.

Agreed completely.

[Tned]

Ok, FWIW, since actually memories are probably faded, and since I spent a couple hours working on this a few years ago, here is a breakdown (with video) of the four turnovers:


Ok, this will be a four part series. It takes some time to compile, so I only have the first turnover done. I will prepare the other three tomorrow.

I decided to prepare this analysis because there is a whole lot of finger pointing on both sides of the Jake debate. Some say it is all Jake's fault, some say it wasn't Jake's fault. His four turnover's have been pointed out by many as the main reason we lost the game.

It has been months, so I honestly can't remember every detail. So, since I still had the game on my Tivo, I decided to look at each turnover to see what factors (if any) were involved in the turnover.

Turnover number 1:

This turnover occurred with 3:29 left in the first quarter.

This turnover can clearly not be blamed on Jake. If you watch the linked video, you will see that from snap to the ball out of Jake's hand is somewhere between 2.5 and 2.8 seconds. The rushing ends are basically at Jake's drop back point at the same time or before him.

http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/affcgfirst_fumble.wmv

Obviously, since the ball came out of Jake's hands, there is no way that he takes zero blame, but this play was a complete breakdown in pass coverage.

As you will see in that clip, that was only Jakes 2nd fumble in the previous 17 games.

I will prepare the other clips tomorrow, with no preconceived notions. Whatever they show, they show, which is why I decided to stop with the talk and provde video proof for each turnover, whether it makes Jake look bad or good.

The second angle (from behind) is in slow motion. In the first, side-angle, shot for all practical purposes the rusher from the right and left hit him at the same time. We are talking less than .5 seconds from between stepping up from the first rusher and being hit by the second.

Since it is hard to see, I will give you a time count, which is easier to do in an editing program.

0 seconds, the ball is snapped.
.3 seconds, Jake has his back to the line of scrimmage, because it is play action.
1.1 seconds, Jake fakes the handoff to Anderson.
1.17 seconds, Foster has is back to the line of scrimmage and is beat.
1.3 seconds, Jake is turning to his left to complete the play action fake and turn towards the line of scrimmage.
2.03 seconds, Jake plants his right foot, having just completed his drop back.
2.07 seconds, Jake starts to lunge forward and to the left away from the rusher on the right.
2.16 seconds, Jake completes his FIRST step forward as he tries to avoid the rusher on the right.
2.23 seconds, Jake is hit from the rusher on the left side, before he completes his second step forward and the ball comes out.
3.09 seconds, the ball hits the ground.

In other words, Jake had less than 2/10ths of a second (.16 seconds) from the time he finished the play action drop until he was hit and the ball was loose. To put that in perspective. After he was hit, the ball was in the air for almost 5/10ths (.46 seconds) or 2.9 times longer than Jake had to step up and avoid those two rushers.



Turnover Number 2:

A couple minutes left to go in the first half. The Broncos needed to make something happen, down 17-3. First play of the drive, Plummer throws an interception on a pass intended for Alexander.

No two ways about it, a very bad throw. The receiver had inside coverage and Alexander had no chance to catch the ball. The receiver that crossed with Alexander (Lelie I think) would have been a better target. or the ball could have been thrown away. A bad interception.

http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/affcgfirstint.wmv

Factor:

I don't think by any stretch that this can be used as an excuse for the turnovers, but you have to wonder if it was a factor:

http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/underweather.wmv

The week leading up to the game Jake had a cold or the flu and needed to take oxygen on the sideline.

Turnover Number 3:

Following a good return across center by Charlie Adams, Plummer threw his second interception on the first play of the series. At this point the Broncos were down 27-10.

Jake tried to get the ball to Rod Smith over the middle and the ball was intercepted by a linebacker dropping back into coverage who made a leaping catch.

Mike Anderson was open on a swing out to the right and would like have had a large gain if Plummer had looked for him. There was no real pressure from rushers prior to the throw.

http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/affcgsecondint.wmv

Another bad throw.

Turnover Number 4:

With the Broncos down 27-17, Jake Plummer was sacked on third down when the Steeler's rushed five and the pocket collapsed. The Broncos then went for it on 4th down and 10.

On fourth down, the Steelers only rushed three against the Broncos five pass blockers. The right, outside pass rusher completely blew by Foster and got to Plummer in under three seconds. Plummer was able to duck under and out of the sack, and tried to scramble out of the pocket and then his arm was hit by another rusher and the ball was knocked free.

This was another complete breakdown in pass coverage where three rushers overpowered our five pass blockers, and Jake was trying to keep the play alive on fourth and ten.

If he had simply held onto the ball and went down versus trying to make something out of nothing would have no bearing, because it was fourth down. Turnover or turnover on downs.

http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/affcgsecondfumble.wmv

Conclusions:

The two interceptions were poor decisions. Neither of those throws should have been made, and there was no signifigant pressure on either throw.

The two fumbles both occurred when pass coverage completely broke down. On the first fumble, to rushers were on Jake as he completed his five step drop and before he even had an opportunity to attempt to step up and avoid the rush (~2.6 seconds). The second fumble occurred when three rushers beat five pass blockers and Jake was trying to keep the game alive on a 4th and 10.

I would say that the two interceptions were completely Jakes fault, and the two fumbles have to be pinned on the offensive line.

[Tned]

Ok, and here's the follow up, play by play breakdown of the AFCCG (offense), along with a summary of Jake's passing accuracy at the end (the last old post I will dredge up tonight):


Jake Plummer Play by Play: AFCCG

Pass 1:
5+ step drop/play action/screen to Putz - shoulder height; 19 yards

Run 1:
Play action bootleg - scramble back to line of scrimmage; 1 yard gain

Pass 2:
5 step drop; pass to Rod Smith, high and behind off hands; incomplete

Pass 3:
5 step drop; pass to Rod Smith near left numbers; hit in stomach; 13 yards

Fumble 1:
play action - 5+ step drop; both outsider rushers beat pass protection; Jake hit/fumble

Run 2:
5+ step drop; Tatum withs on block of blitzing DB; Plummer scrambles for 1 yard gain.

Pass 4:
5 step drop; blitzer comes in clean; screen pass hits Tatum in chest; 8 yard gain, just

short of first down

Pass 5:
5 step drop; deflected by linebacker; Intended for Lelie over the middle; incomplete

Pass 6:
Playaction/bootleg; pass to anderson; slightly behind - right hip; complete 13 yards

Pass 7:
Play action/5+ step drop; pass in Putz hands - slightly led on run; caught at right numbers;

18 yards

Cummalative:
5/7 71 yards - 1 fumble

Pass 8:
Play action/5 step drop; blind side hit as he releases ball; high to Lelie in endzone;

incomplete; Lepsis tried to sell play action and Porter flew by him untouched.

Pass 9:
Play action/5 step drop; Plummer hit by rushing porter as soon as he turns back towards the

line of scrimmage from the play action; Porter ran right by Anderson, who didn't block him,

because it appeared to be a screen; Plummer jumped and threw as Porter was hitting him in

chest; ball was short of reaching Anderson, who turned towards Jake when the ball was almost

to him; incomplete

Note: Broncos ran on third and 10 and then kicked field goal.

Note: Pittsburght scores on first three possessions (one following fumble). 17-3 score. Pitt

scored on drives of 62, 39 and 80 yards; 5/6 on 3rd down conversion in first three series

Pass 10:
5+ step drop; pass intended for Alexander at right sideline; intercepted by DB with inside

coverage

Note: Steelers score on 43 yard drive following interception

Note: For the half, the Steelers scored on all four of their first half possessions

Note: half ends 24-3 pitt.

Note: First half summary:
Plummer 6/11 80 yards 1 fumble - 1 int
Broncos 6 first downs
3rd down conversions: 2-5

Roethlisberger 13/17 180 2 TD's
Pitt 14 first downs
3rd down conversions: 6-7


Second Half



Pass 11:
Backed up on 3 yard line following punt:
5 step drop; swing pass to Anderson to left; hits him in stride in hands - right front

corner of endzone; Anderson get's to 2, 1 yard loss

Pass 12:
Play action/5 step drop in endzone; pressure from both rushing ends; throw high and through

Rod Smith's hands at left hash marks; incomplete

Pass 13:
5 step drop; screen to anderson - hit in hands; down at 1, 2 yard loss

Pass 14:
5+ step drop; pass intended for Alexander on 12 yard curl; pass into stomach; dropped by

alexander; no defender within 4 yards; incomplete

Pass 15:
4 step drop; hit Smith in hands on slant at left numbers; 9 yards

Pass 16:
Play action/bootleg right; throw made from half between right numbers and sideline at

Broncos 25, back across body to Smith at Pitt 40 at hash marks, over Rod's right shoulder -

slightly high; 30 yard gain.

Pass 17:
Play action/ 4 step drop; hit Putz in hands on slant at right numbers; 9 yards

Pass 18:
5+ step drop; throw over middle to endzone, slightly high; 30 yard TD

Pass 19:
5 step drop; pass intended for smith at left hash mark intercepted by linebacker

Pass 20:
5+ step drop; avoids blitzing db and scrambles out of pocket; avoids orginald DB that got up

and chased him outside hash marks, shovels to anderson, while being hit by linebacker; 2

yard gain - Nullified by inneligible player downfield - replay down.

Pass 21:
Playaction/5 step drop; throw to Sapp near left sideline; possibly slightly behind/near

right hip/hard to say from angle, other than it hit both hands - Drop; incomplete

Pass 22:
play action/5 step drop; rusher beat Lepsis and gets to drop point before Jake, Jake steps

up and avoids second rusher that is unblocked, runs up just short of line of scrimmage

outside right hash mark, throws back across to Bell betweek left hash and numbers - Ball

hits Bell in hands; 8 yard gain

Pass 23:
4 step drop; pass to Lelie on right sideline; over Lelies left shoulder - slightly high; 38

yards

Pass 24:
Play action/5+ step drop; hit by Porter who beat Lepsis and beat Jake to his drop back

point; avoided sack and scrambled outside hashmarks to left; while back peddling to avoid

another rusher ; intended for Adams at left numbers on 35 yard throw; pass hit Adams in

chest but dropped on pass interference call; incomplete / but PI

Run:
Play action/bootleg right; nobody open; run for 6 yard gain

Pass 25:
play aciton/bootleg right; two rushers pressuring Jake on bootleg; pass intended for Putz at

right numbers; pass high off fingertips; incomplete

Pass 26:
5+ step drop; pass into Smith's stomach at right hash marks; 7 yards

Sack:
5 step dorp; steps up to avoid one rusher; sacked by three steelers

Fumble:
Going for it on 4th down;
5 step drop; foster completely beat by rusher who envelopes Jake, but he escapes and steps

forward; ball stripped by second rusher.

scramble:
5 step drop; nobody open; scrambles forward; 8 yards

Pass 27:
5 step drop; pressured by 3 man rush; pass to Tatum near right sideline; pass wide;

incomplete

Pass 28:
5 step drop; swing pass to Bell at right numbers; 1 yard gain

Pass 29:
5+ step drop; steps up to avoid pressure; hits Putz in hands at left numbers; 11 yards

Pass 30:
5+ step drop; steps up to avoid pressure - scrambles to left numbers; hits Puts in stomach -

drop; incomplete

Pass 31:
3 step drop; intended for Smith on slant at left hash marks = ball shoulder height - a

little outside - bounces off hands; incomplete

Pass 32:
4 step drop; swing pass to Tatum outside right numbers; hits him shoulder high; 2 yard gain

Scramble:
4 step drop; scramble forward for 4 yard gain

Second Half stats:
Plummer 12/19 143 yards 1 int - 1 td - 1 fumble
Broncos 10 first downs
3rd downs 3-7

Roethlisberger 8/12 95 yards
6 first downs
3rd downs 4-9



Summary:

18 on target throws - 2 drops
8 a little high or behind (catchable off hands) - 4 drops
3 high or wide - uncatchable
1 tip by defender - no chance for receiver to make play
2 Ints - Bad throws, no chance for receivers to make plays

Ok, here is a % breakdown.

56.3% - hit the receiver in stride, in the body, etc.
25% - was slightly high, or slightly wide, such as off a hip, catchable, but not perfect
9.4% - uncatchable - but not intercepted or tipped
3.1% - tipped
6.3% - intercepted

I have nothing to reference these percentages against to know if they are good or bad, or somewhere in between.

[Ravage!!!]

I looked it up because I didn't know who you guys were talking about. The dictionary I was using said see week one of the Broncos 2006 season. :noidea:

UGh.. I was at that game :tsk:

[ursamajor]

Also. Cutler is only 8-3 with Chicago.

Todd Collins is 1-0.

I think we might have a whole new twist to this argument.

Tom Collins in his "win"

6 of 16 for 32 yards (2.0 yds/att) 0 tds and 4 ints.

Yeah, I am sure that Jay couldnt have outperformed that for the win.

BTW he has 4 4th QTR come from behind wins this season-out of 9 wins. He was also the reason why we beat the Eagles. That is a total of 5 wins out of the Bears' 9 wins that Cutler was the difference maker. He is very much a part of the Bears current record.

[silkamilkamonico]

Tom Collins in his "win"

6 of 16 for 32 yards (2.0 yds/att) 0 tds and 4 ints.



Thank you very much for proving my point for me. Outstanding!

[ursamajor]

Wild card at best....Chicago WILL lose the next 3 out of 4 games.

Rogers will be MVP....Cutler will be again, a loser.

Mark!!!

:coffee:

I love these "predictions"

Now for reality. The Bears are 3-1 against .500 or better teams this season. The Packers are 2-3. Not to mention that many feel that had Vick started against the Packers, that the Eagles would have won. That would have made them 1-4. Either way, they have a losing record against winning teams.

The Packers dont have an easy remaining schedule either.

[Ravage!!!]

No one is apologizing for Jay because he plays for a team with a good defense. But defense doesn't outscore the other team. Can you imagine Orton behind that Chicago OL and WRs?? :lol: There is no reason for anyone to feel as if they are "defending" Cutler for playing for Chicago and their defense. He's playing GOOD football and is making a ton of plays with his feet as well as his arm. No defense there. Nothing to defend or feel as though it needs defending. When he was trying to make too many plays with his arm, people bitched. When he's showing that he's willing to take sacks when behind that OL, instead of pushing it.... people want to bitch and put him down as if he's not doing enough. Its really sad.

[Ravage!!!]

I love these "predictions"

Now for reality. The Bears are 3-1 against .500 or better teams this season. The Packers are 2-3. Not to mention that many feel that had Vick started against the Packers, that the Eagles would have won. That would have made them 1-4. Either way, they have a losing record against winning teams.

The Packers dont have an easy remaining schedule either.

Notice how he keeps changing his "predictions?" First, it was Chicago not even making the playoffs, now its "wildcard at best." Soon that will change to "yeah, but they won't have home field advantage."

[ursamajor]

Thank you very much for proving my point for me. Outstanding!

You are right, how could I forget that the Bears were playing the powerhouse Panthers. You know the one with the rookie QB in his first start. The Team with the 32nd ranked scoring offense, and the 26th ranked scoring defense.

I honestly hope that you dont feel that performances like Collins would translate to consistent wins, regardless of the defense. Had Collins QB'd the '85 Bears, they would have been sub .500. We just got lucky that we only needed him against the Panthers.

[Ravage!!!]

You are right, how could I forget that the Bears were playing the powerhouse Panthers. You know the one with the rookie QB in his first start. The Team with the 32nd ranked scoring offense, and the 26th ranked scoring defense.

I honestly hope that you dont feel that performances like Collins would translate to consistent wins, regardless of the defense. Had Collins QB'd the '85 Bears, they would have been sub .500. We just got lucky that we only needed him against the Panthers.

One game doesn't prove the point he thinks he made. Orton behind that OL you guys have, would get killed.

[silkamilkamonico]

You are right, how could I forget that the Bears were playing the powerhouse Panthers. You know the one with the rookie QB in his first start. The Team with the 32nd ranked scoring offense, and the 26th ranked scoring defense.

I honestly hope that you dont feel that performances like Collins would translate to consistent wins, regardless of the defense. Had Collins QB'd the '85 Bears, they would have been sub .500. We just got lucky that we only needed him against the Panthers.

Who cares who they were playing. They won. They are continuing to win. You're not understanding that. Bears have an outstanding defense. It's better than the defense Rex Grossman played with. Orton won with that defense. Cutler is winning with that defense. Hell, Rex Grossman brought that defense all the way to the SuperBowl.

Cutler is doing a good job not putting their defense in positions to not be successful. He's doing a great job running the offense. The Bears are playing great right now. But this thread is being argued about like Cutler is some special QB. He isn't. He's arguably the 7th best QB in the NFC and there are a couple of young rookies in Bradford and Freeman who look like they could be better than him sooner or later.

[silkamilkamonico]

One game doesn't prove the point he thinks he made. Orton behind that OL you guys have, would get killed.

LMAO No. The oline is playing very well right now. The oline you are talking about was the one earlier in the year, Orton would have most definetely been killed by thatl. Hell, Jay Cutler was.

[lilrooster]

I've perused this board before in reference to the whole Cutler vs. Orton controversy, because I wanted to see what this side would say. I was surprised by all of the animosity towards Cutler, Marshall, and the others that McLovin traded away by some of the posters. If I were a Bronco fan, I'd be screaming bloody murder after the hire of that nimrod. He has single-handedly destroyed your team with his Napoleonic tendencies and arrogance!!!! That the owners and management let him gut your team is unbelievable to me. There was a reason that the Bears were sooooo eager to trade away Kyle Orton and get Cutler, he is a mediocre game manager at his very BEST! Didn't anyone hear about the never-ending qb controversy in Chicago between Rex and Kyle?! What choices!!! That some of you blindly support Kyle and dis Cutler now that he's gone and having a little success is deplorable. I feel sorry for what that maniac did to your team, but don't crap on Jay and all the other talent that were run out of town. Crap on the ownership, coaches, and management that have made a mockery of your once great team. I was a huge Elway fan as a kid, so don't think I'm a Bronco basher here, and I also liked Shanahan as a coach, who btw you'll be paying for still, along with McLovin... Ugh, the fans should buy that team out like our northern rival (gb) maybe things will go better in Denver.

[Lancane]

I've perused this board before in reference to the whole Cutler vs. Orton controversy, because I wanted to see what this side would say. I was surprised by all of the animosity towards Cutler, Marshall, and the others that McLovin traded away by some of the posters. If I were a Bronco fan, I'd be screaming bloody murder after the hire of that nimrod. He has single-handedly destroyed your team with his Napoleonic tendencies and arrogance!!!! That the owners and management let him gut your team is unbelievable to me. There was a reason that the Bears were sooooo eager to trade away Kyle Orton and get Cutler, he is a mediocre game manager at his very BEST! Didn't anyone hear about the never-ending qb controversy in Chicago between Rex and Kyle?! What choices!!! That some of you blindly support Kyle and dis Cutler now that he's gone and having a little success is deplorable. I feel sorry for what that maniac did to your team, but don't crap on Jay and all the other talent that were run out of town. Crap on the ownership, coaches, and management that have made a mockery of your once great team. I was a huge Elway fan as a kid, so don't think I'm a Bronco basher here, and I also liked Shanahan as a coach, who btw you'll be paying for still, along with McLovin... Ugh, the fans should buy that team out like our northern rival (gb) maybe things will go better in Denver.

Welcome to the boards! :beer:

Actually a lot of those who supported McDaniels and his trades are starting to come around to the damage it has caused and what it means for the future of this team...not all, but most.

Now we're stuck with Orton, Quinn and Tebow, and hopefully Tebow is the answer...because those other jackasses are not, most know that. And some are mad we drafted Tebow, we haven't seen much out of the kid and we may have a draft pick that could nab either Luck or Mallett and so that doesn't sit well either.

Should be a fun off-season...;)

[ursamajor]

Who cares who they were playing. They won. They are continuing to win. You're not understanding that. Bears have an outstanding defense. It's better than the defense Rex Grossman played with. Orton won with that defense. Cutler is winning with that defense. Hell, Rex Grossman brought that defense all the way to the SuperBowl.

Trust me, while the Bears current D is very good, it is not as good as the '06 D...not yet. Hopefully it can be.

But Rex had a much better Oline while under center in Chicago. Not only in comparison to the current thing in Chicago, but by league standards. And in 4 years of being the starter in Chicago, Rex only had three 3 plus TD games. Cutler already has 7 in his short time in Chicago. He is much better than Rex. Anyone who has watched both of them play can see it from throw to throw.

BTW, I am not sure if the current Bears D has one of these up their sleeve:

uYoApt68uhg

[Ravage!!!]

LMAO No. The oline is playing very well right now. The oline you are talking about was the one earlier in the year, Orton would have most definetely been killed by thatl. Hell, Jay Cutler was.

NO.. they aren't!! They have played "better" than earlier, but they are still HORRENDOUS.

But this defense isn't as good as the defense back when they went to the Super Bowl. If you are going to try and use ranking and stats, you have to look at just how many poor teams are in the NFL right now. Very few good offensive teams at all.

This defense isn't NEARLY as good as they were back in 'o5

[ursamajor]

LMAO No. The oline is playing very well right now. The oline you are talking about was the one earlier in the year, Orton would have most definetely been killed by thatl. Hell, Jay Cutler was.

News to me. They have given up 8 sacks in the last 2 games. Infact, they not only have given up the most sacks this season, they have also committed the most penalties of any Oline in the entire league.

[lilrooster]

Thanks for the welcome, and thanks for the high five! Yeah, I couldn't stand him as soon as he was announced. Something about him rubbed me the wrong way immediately. Oh, that's right, it's because he's a jack@$$!!!! Hopefully you guys will be able to right the ship and get some productive draft picks next year(unlike the bears recently). Hey you guys want Jerry Angelo too? Sorry, that was awful:tsk: Maybe get Parcells involved? He can build a team.

[silkamilkamonico]

Trust me, while the Bears current D is very good, it is not as good as the '06 D...not yet. Hopefully it can be.

But Rex had a much better Oline while under center in Chicago. Not only in comparison to the current thing in Chicago, but by league standards. And in 4 years of being the starter in Chicago, Rex only had three 3 plus TD games. Cutler already has 7 in his short time in Chicago. He is much better than Rex. Anyone who has watched both of them play can see it from throw to throw.

BTW, I am not sure if the current Bears D has one of these up their sleeve:


The Bears have the #3 ranked defense in the NFL this year. In 06 they had the #5. Both of the defenses are good enough to play the way they want to play, and win the way they want to win.

[Ravage!!!]

NO.. they aren't!! They have played "better" than earlier, but they are still HORRENDOUS.

But this defense isn't as good as the defense back when they went to the Super Bowl. If you are going to try and use ranking and stats, you have to look at just how many poor teams are in the NFL right now. Very few good offensive teams at all.

This defense isn't NEARLY as good as they were back in 'o5


The Bears have the #3 ranked defense in the NFL this year. In 06 they had the #5. Both of the defenses are good enough to play the way they want to play, and win the way they want to win.

Again, this defense is playing against much weaker teams. Hell, the entire NFL is filled with a lot of bad teams. THere just isn't really much comparison between the two if you watch them.

[Lancane]

Thanks for the welcome, and thanks for the high five! Yeah, I couldn't stand him as soon as he was announced. Something about him rubbed me the wrong way immediately. Oh, that's right, it's because he's a jack@$$!!!! Hopefully you guys will be able to right the ship and get some productive draft picks next year(unlike the bears recently). Hey you guys want Jerry Angelo too? Sorry, that was awful:tsk: Maybe get Parcells involved? He can build a team.

Sadly, I think you'll see some unique names added this off-season to our staff, not big names...but solid coaches - we hope!

;)

[silkamilkamonico]

Doesn't even matter. Even Todd Collins can win playing QB with this defense. You guys need to get off Cutler's back, and give him the props he deserves for playing the way the Bears play, and more importantly winning.

[silkamilkamonico]

Again, this defense is playing against much weaker teams. Hell, the entire NFL is filled with a lot of bad teams. THere just isn't really much comparison between the two if you watch them.

Please don't try and convince me otherwise by downplaying Cutler's year this year. He has been playing great and he is finally winning. Denver needs to figure out what they are going to do with their team so they can get back to that too.

[Lancane]

Doesn't even matter. Even Todd Collins can win playing QB with this defense. You guys need to get off Cutler's back, and give him the props he deserves for playing the way the Bears play, and more importantly winning.

So let me ask you Silk, since this is something we disagree on...who is the right choice to be the future of this team, to be the franchise quarterback?

:D

[silkamilkamonico]

So let me ask you Silk, since this is something we disagree on...who is the right choice to be the future of this team, to be the franchise quarterback?

:D

I'm hoping Andrew Luck. Orton is NOT a franchise QB in any way, shape, or form, and I do not think Tebow has the cerebral skillset to be a franchise QB. We'll get one soon. In this day and age, the NFL is LOADED with franshie QB's.

[Lancane]

I'm hoping Andrew Luck. Orton is NOT a franchise QB in any way, shape, or form, and I do not think Tebow has the cerebral skillset to be a franchise QB. We'll get one soon. In this day and age, the NFL is LOADED with franshie QB's.

I agree Orton isn't, that's plainly obvious...Tebow has a lot of attributes you'd like in a franchise quarterback, unfortunately I do worry about his mechanics, he doesn't have the greatest arm...but more then that is his accuracy, he isn't one to get the ball into tight spaces and that does bother me. So I can see why you feel that way.

I like Luck, but I also see potential in Mallett and Devlin as well. At least you gave me an honest answer.

:beer:

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't know if Tebow can make quick enough reads and decisions to be a great QB. He can make plays though. I think he can make throws too. But I do think in this day and age you want a QB that is going to engineer an offense down the field with quick short bullet passes and long bombs. The fact that Tebow likes to run, concerns me a little on having a QB that might be susceptible to big hits and injuries.

I do not see Tebow as a type of QB that can quickly read the defense as he's walking up to center, and then make an audible or change a route to take advantage of the defense, like walking up to the line and then calling a quick slant and actually hitting the WR. I see him making these long drawn out plays where he's running around the pocket buying time and then trying to make a throw or run. Personally, I just do not want a QB like that. I think Vick is good, but I'm not interested in a Qb playing like that. I want a Manning/Brees/Brady/type.

I was incredibly hyped on Sam Bradford coming out of college, and I really like how he has played this year. St Louis has an outstanding young QB who I think is going to be great. Jealous.

[ursamajor]

I'm hoping Andrew Luck. Orton is NOT a franchise QB in any way, shape, or form, and I do not think Tebow has the cerebral skillset to be a franchise QB. We'll get one soon. In this day and age, the NFL is LOADED with franshie QB's.

I think Tebow is going to be a monster.

[silkamilkamonico]

I think Tebow is going to be a monster.

If he is, I will gladly change my tune. I see an injury waiting to happen with the way that he plays. He's so big, strong, fast, and reckless.

[lilrooster]

Sadly, I think you'll see some unique names added this off-season to our staff, not big names...but solid coaches - we hope!

;)

Whats the word out there? They're not going after any big names? Criminy, they probably don't have the money for it do they?

[ursamajor]

If he is, I will gladly change my tune. I see an injury waiting to happen with the way that he plays. He's so big, strong, fast, and reckless.

So does Roethlisberger.

[silkamilkamonico]

So does Roethlisberger.

Roethleberger doesn't put his head down and run forward like a locomotive. He's also proved everyone liek me wrong by his impact on the field.

[Lancane]

Whats the word out there? They're not going after any big names? Criminy, they probably don't have the money for it do they?

They claim money isn't an issue...and I believe them, McDaniels is likely to get a position on someones staff, and I believe that will play in our favor.

As for candidates, the most repeated name right now is Kubiak if he is relieved of his coaching position in Houston, and not all are enthused with that since he has been mediocre there.

[lilrooster]

They claim money isn't an issue...and I believe them,

Wait, don't they still have to pay McLovins salary and owe Shanny 7mil for one more year methinks...? Are they going to let Tebow play for the rest of the year, or what?

[Lancane]

Wait, don't they still have to pay McLovins salary and owe Shanny 7mil for one more year methinks...? Are they going to let Tebow play for the rest of the year, or what?

Shanahan salary is split between us and the Redskins, if McDaniels finds a position on another staff, I believe the same goes for his salary as well.

Regarding Tebow...it's anyone's guess at this time. The fan-base wants to see him play, and I concur...we need to see what we have or don't have in him.

[lilrooster]

I completely agree with you there, Orton is pretty much a known commodity at this point(bad), let Tebow play! Hell, we've gone through qb problems since...well forever, no harm no foul at this point of the season. I hope someone does pick him up for your sake, maybe Bellicheat will take him back!

[GEM]

Come on guys, Plummer was a pitiful excuse for a QB, who not only isn't with the Broncos anymore, but left the NFL in shame with his tail between his legs.

Get over it already, he's not coming back, no matter the crying.

Neither is Cutler...but we're still having the same conversations.....just remove Plummer and insert Cutler.

[Dzone]

I used to love watching Cutler here. Now I try to catch as many bears games as I can. Cant wait to see how Cutler does in the playoffs

[TXBRONC]

Yeah, I know. But I figured I would see if those certain posters would try to defend their hypocrisy.

I won't hold my breath..... :lol:

A well know medical fact, you'll live longer if you don't. :D

[rationalfan]

wish we were cheering for a winning team.

[LordTrychon]

I miss Griese. We ruined him when we brought in Plummer to replace him. :(

[Cugel]

Welcome to the boards! :beer:

Actually a lot of those who supported McDaniels and his trades are starting to come around to the damage it has caused and what it means for the future of this team...not all, but most.

Now we're stuck with Orton, Quinn and Tebow, and hopefully Tebow is the answer...because those other jackasses are not, most know that. And some are mad we drafted Tebow, we haven't seen much out of the kid and we may have a draft pick that could nab either Luck or Mallett and so that doesn't sit well either.

Should be a fun off-season...;)

EVERYBODY wants to "see what Tebow can do in the starting role" but nobody wants to admit that it's probably not much. :coffee:

Hell, I want to see what Tebow can do. But, remember that McDaniels clearly knew he sinking like the Titanic and yet he never pulled the plug on Orton and put in Tebow in a desperate effort to save himself.

Doesn't that tell you that "Tebow isn't ready?"

Most NFL coaches were never sold on Tebow to begin with, which is why he'll probably NEVER be a starting QB in the NFL now. He'll probably see limited action this season and be traded before the start of the next season -- and Broncos fans will have to deal with it.

After all, the next coach is NOT going to tie his fortune to Josh McDaniels' failed draft picks. He's going to clean house and the MOST IMPORTANT change any new coach wants to make is to get "My Guy" in at QB.

He doesn't want the guy who the previous coach wanted he wants to start fresh. That probably means that he drafts a QB and starts Orton until that QB is ready sometime late in the year.

2011 is going to be a rebuilding year for the Broncos anyway since McIdiot tore out the foundations on offense and built nothing on defense. Aside from DJ Williams (who has off-field issues) there's not one outstanding young player on Defense.

It's virtually totally a desert as far as talent is concerned. They have to start basically from ground zero and utterly remake the entire defense (probably without Dawkins and possibly without Champ Bailey).

It's going to be VERY ugly next year, but who cares! At least we can hope to be building TOWARDS something, instead of just waiting for the inevitable crash with McMoron. :coffee:

[LordTrychon]

Dumervil?

[Juriga72]

I used to love watching Cutler here. Now I try to catch as many bears games as I can. Cant wait to see how Cutler does in the playoffs

Again.... This is what I hate. (Insert Jim Mora playoff rant)... NOT this year for us, but for the Bears?

As pointed out by others, Jay has won 8 games this year, with 4 of them being 4th quarter comback wins..... After wtaching Kyle trow 4 yafd passes on 3rd and 5 all year, picks to end games, oh and those pesky little fumbles........ How hard is it to see Jay winning.... very.

I'd trade Kyle staright up for Jay right now.

[Tned]

Neither is Cutler...but we're still having the same conversations.....just remove Plummer and insert Cutler.

Exactly, so those still bashing Cutler because he replaced Plummer, need to let it go. In the same light, those bashing Orton, because he replaced Cutler need to let it go.

In the same light, oops, I ran out of lights...

[Tned]

I miss Griese. We ruined him when we brought in Plummer to replace him. :(

What, no love for Bubby? There isn't a single Denver QB that was screwed over worse than Bubby. On top of that, if Bubby had gotten the starting nod he earned, than Griese wouldn't have thrown the INT, and TD wouldn't have tackled the interceptor, and Lepsis wouldn't have rolled over his knee and kept him out of the HOF.

Damn you Griese, you are like the friggin butterfly that flapped its wings and caused a typhoon that wiped out half of the south pacific.....

[CloudyFuture]

Long time lurker here and just love this debate. Anyways I just wanted to add some stats on Cutler since the Bears bye week:

Cutler is 90 for 137 for 1,062 yards for 67% completion% 10 TDs and 3 INTs

Cutler on 3rd down passing / running

29 for 42 for 69% 377 yards 2 TDs 2 INTs also running 5 times for 72 yards

converting 32 out of 47 3rd downs with his arm or legs plus getting into FG range on one run (that was made) since the bye

Just to add to this I looked up more numbers.

Cutler faces an avg distance on 3rd downs of 7.3 yards. He was also sacked 10 times on 3rd downs.

I also went back totaled up the numbers for Orton since the bronco bye week and this how that went:

79 for 141 for 977 yards for a 56% completion % 8 TDs and 1 INT

On 3rd downs

14 for 32 for 45% 166 yards 0 TDs 1 INT

orton has not ran on 3rd down in the 4 games since the bye week

Orton has been sacked 5 times and faces an avg 3rd down of 9 yards

And while he has completed 14 passes on the 3rd downs 6 of those completed passes did NOT pick up a first down.

So Orton only converted 8 of 32 3rd downs in the 4 games since the bronco bye week.

NOTE Bears have played 5 games broncos only 4 games.

Note to my note: I looked at third down because one famous QB that use to play for a certain AFC West team once said I make my money on 3rd downs.

[Juriga72]

Did you happen to find out how many passes Kyle threw were one hoppers to the shortstop? Because IIRC... he leads MLB in those kind of 3 and outs.

[arapaho2]

Really.

That's why Jake is on his team.

Question: who was the last Denver QB to win a playoff game or lead his team to the playoffs?

Answer:_______________________

(Your turn)

Thanks for playing

:coffee:


for you to ask this right after proclaiming cutlers only winning because of the #3 scoreing defense

forgetting in 2005 plummer had the #3 scoreing defense behind him also
shows your utter failure in this thread:lol::lol:

[ursamajor]

Just to add to this I looked up more numbers.

Cutler faces an avg distance on 3rd downs of 7.3 yards. He was also sacked 10 times on 3rd downs.

I also went back totaled up the numbers for Orton since the bronco bye week and this how that went:

79 for 141 for 977 yards for a 56% completion % 8 TDs and 1 INT

On 3rd downs

14 for 32 for 45% 166 yards 0 TDs 1 INT

orton has not ran on 3rd down in the 4 games since the bye week

Orton has been sacked 5 times and faces an avg 3rd down of 9 yards

And while he has completed 14 passes on the 3rd downs 6 of those completed passes did NOT pick up a first down.

So Orton only converted 8 of 32 3rd downs in the 4 games since the bronco bye week.

NOTE Bears have played 5 games broncos only 4 games.

Note to my note: I looked at third down because one famous QB that use to play for a certain AFC West team once said I make my money on 3rd downs.

Those are some interesting stats on Cutler. He has been money as of late on 3rd downs. So money infact, that all I could do is LOL at Dilfer saying that Jay was incapable of convering 3rd and 7's

[fcspikeit]

so you are going to stick with this stance regardless of facts and evidence we have gained over the ensuing two years? We now know for a fact McDaniels will lie to get himself out of trouble, get what he wants etc. There is absolutely no way he intentionally hired a known cheater who then cheated for him unknowingly. Those video guys work over 80 hours a week and don't have spare time for elective duties, the dude was told what to videotape and took the fall like a good soldier… Exactly like the first time he was caught cheating. We also know the McDaniels can't get along with many people, Cutler was simply the first here. Unlike many of the other people McDaniels rubbed The Wrong Way, Cutler had options because of his physical gifts and the rarity of a quarterback with his talents. There are very few people who are not stupid that would stay in a bad situation they didn't need to put up with. I think a lot of people vilify Cutler to make themselves feel better about the situation the Broncos are in with this mess of a head coach. Kind of like how the ex-wife/ex-husband has to be a bad guy and complete a hole… After all, the villain couldn't be on our side!

:salute: Well said my friend... Well said!!!

Everyone with any kind of power or who held a position in high regard with the fans simply could not get along with McDaniel’s.. Are we seriously to believe that everyone that wanted nothing to do with McDaniel’s was a child? Cutler went public to tell us fans what was going on.. Even though its been all but proven a lot of fans still want to blame Cutler for wanting to get traded when McDaniel’s wanted to trade him first and that’s what started the entire situation.. McDaniel’s got exactly what he wanted when he traded Cutler.. Isn't that what Cutler said was his plan from the start? Not sure how any of this was Jays fault?

As some has said... this don't matter much now and I'm sure Cutler is glad he is in Chicago playing for a team with a defense so he didn't get hurt.. we fans are who got screwed over... I'm just glad this black spot on the Broncos legacy is finally over.. Now hopefully we can try to gain some respectability back..

[fcspikeit]

cutler is never down multiple scores! did you see how they won last week with a BS roughing the passer so called elbow to cutlers head as chicago failed on 4th and long? that penalty ended up giving them the lead. did u see the td he threw to olsen where he jkuss lobs it up for grabs? come on dude

The penalty did not give them a first down lol.. and it wasn't roughing the passer haha.. It was an illegal blow to the head that was called bro.. Even if it wasn't called.. it was 2nd down because Cutler picked up 8 yards running.. Did you even watch the game or did you just make some stuff up? :lol:

[Lancane]

I wish we still had Jay Cutler, then we would be able to hire just about anybody as a head coach.

Tebow is not a hot commodity...jersey sells don't have shit to do with talent, and most feel he doesn't have the tools. Orton isn't big with the fans, give a select few, and Quinn has even less support then Orton.

Who'd want to coach here if that's what their stuck with? I'm hoping that the front office will give the coach some power in choosing who is brought in. Because, if they're forced to use someone who doesn't fit or doesn't have the right skill-set, then will be doing this for a few more years...

:coffee:

[fcspikeit]

He'll make every post he can to try and insult/ bash Cutler in an attempt to stir something up. Its all he knows how to do.

That’s why I use my ignore list.. I was against that for a long time back when I posted here all the time but at the end I decided to give it a try.. Its nice having a conversation without a little troll running in the room and kicking you in the shin then running back out while he plugs his ears and yells how great Plummer was..

[TimTebow15MVP]

**** cutler.