NFL radio today: Madden on Belicheck

[scott.475]

Madden was on this morning and was talking about the Patriots. He said, I'm going to try to remember the quote as good as I can, something like "Belichek has a good system, but he has a great way of modifying his system to work with the talent he has". He did use the word "modify".

I thought that was quite interesting. Too bad his protege doesn't have the same ability.

[G_Money]

I thought his protege did when we hired him. Went from zero receivers to badass receivers, from a HOF QB to a backup schmoe, and did well with all variations.

Which is why it's so weird to me to watch him forcefeed his offensive AND defensive systems as MUST HAVEs to all players and coaches involved, and spend an inordinate amount of resources to get the perfect offense while neglecting the defense, while ditching any player who might have the smallest bit of trouble in the only version of the offense he feels like running here.

Just weird. Apparently he's only flexible when Bill is breathing down his neck or telling him what he has to work with.

~G

[Jake Klug]

Another thing Bellycheck was good at was in game adjustments, which the boy king thinks are overrated.

[Bosco]

I thought his protege did when we hired him. Went from zero receivers to badass receivers, from a HOF QB to a backup schmoe, and did well with all variations.

Which is why it's so weird to me to watch him forcefeed his offensive AND defensive systems as MUST HAVEs to all players and coaches involved, and spend an inordinate amount of resources to get the perfect offense while neglecting the defense, while ditching any player who might have the smallest bit of trouble in the only version of the offense he feels like running here.

Just weird. Apparently he's only flexible when Bill is breathing down his neck or telling him what he has to work with.

~G

If anything, this is what Josh has done extremely well since he's been here. He modified his entire offense to work through Marshall in 2009, then went back to his 2007-2008 model and has just about everyone on offense putting up career best numbers. He's done a very good of building the offense here and with another offseason of refinement to work out the scoring issues, I could see us easily being a top 7 offense next year.

[G_Money]

Um...

- Had the zone-blocking scheme that was top-5 in the league for basically 15 years running, gave up on it half-way through the season even though he didn't have the personnel to change, switched to his preferred scheme again without experienced personnel to run it and now our running game is at the bottom of the league.

- Didn't think the quarterback he was given was capable of running his offense, so instead of modifying the offense he worked on trading the QB.

- Was given a pass-catching TE and a smash-mouth RB. Didn't like the way either of em blocked, refused to scheme for what they DID do well, got rid of em.

He didn't adapt to what he had, he moved parts until he got what he wanted. Now since he's the head coach, that's his right. I just expected him to be able to modify his approach more to suit what he had so that full-scale replacement wasn't necessary.

Maybe what he did or is doing IS modifying it. Maybe he doesn't want to throw it 65% of the time, and just "has" to because we can't run it. Except even when we can run it we decide to throw it.

His idea of modification just isn't what I thought from watching NE's approach, that's all.

~G

[Bosco]

Um...

- Had the zone-blocking scheme that was top-5 in the league for basically 15 years running, gave up on it half-way through the season even though he didn't have the personnel to change, switched to his preferred scheme again without experienced personnel to run it and now our running game is at the bottom of the league. We still use zone blocking, just like every other team in the league. It's just no longer our default blocking setup. Also since we were able to move Beadles back to LG and Moreno is getting healthy the running game has improved substantially, especially in the red zone. I'm sure we'll be far and away improved here in 2011.


- Didn't think the quarterback he was given was capable of running his offense, so instead of modifying the offense he worked on trading the QB. Cutler could have excelled in this offense had he been willing to stick around and be coached up. He's gone because he requested to be traded, not the other way around. It's a shame too, because as one of my friends put it "Josh McDaniels and Jay Cutler could have had an offense that made the 2007 Patriots look like a team unfamiliar with the concept of a forward pass".


- Was given a pass-catching TE and a smash-mouth RB. Didn't like the way either of em blocked, refused to scheme for what they DID do well, got rid of em. Scheffler caught a whopping 9 less passes then he did under Shanahan in 2008, so its not like he was massively underused all of the sudden. This is also the same coach who had and used Ben Watson as a receiving tight end during his entire stay in New England and was making good use out of Marquez Branson in the preseason before he got injured, so we should probably stick a fork in the "Josh doesn't like receiving tight ends" cliche.

As for not liking how Hillis pass blocks, that's a pretty big part of being a running back in this offensive scheme. Hillis has never been that great of a pass blocker and wanted to carry the ball more, so Josh traded him to a team that would use him as that traditional smash mouth style back in exchange for a quarterback he coveted since that was simply too big of an adjustment to make in the scheme for one player, especially a running back.


He didn't adapt to what he had, he moved parts until he got what he wanted. Now since he's the head coach, that's his right. I just expected him to be able to modify his approach more to suit what he had so that full-scale replacement wasn't necessary. This is the part I don't agree with. The Cutler issue was out of his hands, but he put Marshall in as the Y receiver, which is normally the #3 progression in his offense, and modified everything to make it the #1 receiver. Then when Marshall gets traded he goes out and acquires a true X receiver (Thomas) so we can bump Eddie Royal back to the slot and use him in the Wes Welker role. He kept all of the offensive linemen for 2009 and 3/5ths of them for 2010. Really when you get down to it the only significant player from the 2008 squad that he couldn't find a role for was Hillis and Royal, and Royal was simply a victim of circumstance as he was the only receiver fast enough to pull deep coverage.


Maybe what he did or is doing IS modifying it. Maybe he doesn't want to throw it 65% of the time, and just "has" to because we can't run it. Except even when we can run it we decide to throw it. He certainly doesn't want to throw it that often. Even his high flying 2007 offense was only a 55/45 split on the run and pass and the 2006/2008 offenses were almost a perfect 50/50 split.


His idea of modification just isn't what I thought from watching NE's approach, that's all.

~G I think he's done a pretty good job making his offense work. Royal's production isn't too far off from what he did in 2008 and would probably be even higher if he was completely healthy and Lloyd hadn't blown up. Clady, Kuper and Harris are all doing well in the scheme now that they are getting healthier. Another year together and with healthy players should bring us a very exciting offense in 2011.

Now all we need Josh to do is invest heavily in the D-line through the draft :beer:

[TXBRONC]

If anything, this is what Josh has done extremely well since he's been here. He modified his entire offense to work through Marshall in 2009, then went back to his 2007-2008 model and has just about everyone on offense putting up career best numbers. He's done a very good of building the offense here and with another offseason of refinement to work out the scoring issues, I could see us easily being a top 7 offense next year.

I think you're guessing, you could be right but I don't think so. Kyle Orton got overly focused on getting the ball to Marshall. He could have utilized Royal a lot more than he did.

[Gimpygod]

We still use zone blocking, just like every other team in the league. It's just no longer our default blocking setup. Also since we were able to move Beadles back to LG and Moreno is getting healthy the running game has improved substantially, especially in the red zone. I'm sure we'll be far and away improved here in 2011.

Cutler could have excelled in this offense had he been willing to stick around and be coached up. He's gone because he requested to be traded, not the other way around. It's a shame too, because as one of my friends put it "Josh McDaniels and Jay Cutler could have had an offense that made the 2007 Patriots look like a team unfamiliar with the concept of a forward pass".

Scheffler caught a whopping 9 less passes then he did under Shanahan in 2008, so its not like he was massively underused all of the sudden. This is also the same coach who had and used Ben Watson as a receiving tight end during his entire stay in New England and was making good use out of Marquez Branson in the preseason before he got injured, so we should probably stick a fork in the "Josh doesn't like receiving tight ends" cliche.

As for not liking how Hillis pass blocks, that's a pretty big part of being a running back in this offensive scheme. Hillis has never been that great of a pass blocker and wanted to carry the ball more, so Josh traded him to a team that would use him as that traditional smash mouth style back in exchange for a quarterback he coveted since that was simply too big of an adjustment to make in the scheme for one player, especially a running back.

This is the part I don't agree with. The Cutler issue was out of his hands, but he put Marshall in as the Y receiver, which is normally the #3 progression in his offense, and modified everything to make it the #1 receiver. Then when Marshall gets traded he goes out and acquires a true X receiver (Thomas) so we can bump Eddie Royal back to the slot and use him in the Wes Welker role. He kept all of the offensive linemen for 2009 and 3/5ths of them for 2010. Really when you get down to it the only significant player from the 2008 squad that he couldn't find a role for was Hillis and Royal, and Royal was simply a victim of circumstance as he was the only receiver fast enough to pull deep coverage.

He certainly doesn't want to throw it that often. Even his high flying 2007 offense was only a 55/45 split on the run and pass and the 2006/2008 offenses were almost a perfect 50/50 split.

I think he's done a pretty good job making his offense work. Royal's production isn't too far off from what he did in 2008 and would probably be even higher if he was completely healthy and Lloyd hadn't blown up. Clady, Kuper and Harris are all doing well in the scheme now that they are getting healthier. Another year together and with healthy players should bring us a very exciting offense in 2011.

Now all we need Josh to do is invest heavily in the D-line through the draft :beer:

you are right! we are awesome... the 5-16 record is a fluke. My Christmas wish is for McDaniels to choke to death on Belichick chowder.

[Ravage!!!]

you are right! we are awesome... the 5-16 record is a fluke. My Christmas wish is for McDaniels to choke to death on Belichick chowder.

We were just too blind to see all the awesomeness of the great coaching going on. Oh, how blind we must be. Thank goodness there is someone to show us the way. :elefant:

[rationalfan]

you are right! we are awesome... the 5-16 record is a fluke. My Christmas wish is for McDaniels to choke to death on Belichick chowder.

this is exhibit A why football fans have the reputation of being drunk, inconsiderate morons.

it's just a game. a game the broncos don't play well lately, but is it really worth wishing death on the coach you don't like? makes you sound like a creep with mental problems.

one thing most of you will NEVER realize is the amount of blind, ignorant and hatred-filled vitriol thrown at public and semi-public figures. in a former job, i had people threaten to kill me because of particular album/concert reviews. literally, death threats for something so silly as an opinion about art.

most of the time, people are using hyperbole that's out of control. but because so much is transmitted without context we don't know if, you, are exaggerating or actually wishing death on someone who coaches football.

assuming this isn't lost on you, just think about it.