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View Full Version : An Underestimated FACTOR In Determining McDaniels' Fate!



Cugel
12-02-2010, 03:08 PM
I've mentioned this in threads, but Woody Paige makes it quite distinct. This is a little discussed and much underrated factor in Bowlen's decision making:


Trust me: Bowlen cares about the team, the city, the fans and his legacy. He doesn't want to be remembered as an owner who only won because of one man — "This one's for John" — and couldn't get it done again. A league executive said the Broncos have "become a laughingstock" in the NFL. (http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_16754902)Bowlen has been one of the greatest owners in the NFL — and once seemed a real possibility for the Pro Football Hall of Fame — but that has all sunk into a pit, and I can assure you this is not the way Bowlen wants to be remembered, or looked upon throughout the 2000s into in the next decade.

Billionaires don't want to be mocked and laughed at by other members of their exclusive club. Hence, Bowlen might not care what the plebes in this city and around the country think of his decisions, but he DOES care what other rich members of the CLUB think about HIM.

And right now they think he's a bumbling fool who's run his franchise into the ground. Jerry Jones they respect because he FIRED Wade Phillips and turned his franchise around.

It does NOT appear that Bowlen will be able to escape firing McDaniels unless some miracle happens and the Broncos emerge from games with Oakland, KC and San Diego with wins.

And a snowball in Hell has a MUCH BETTER CHANCE than that. :coffee:

1. The Broncos NEVER win in KC. The Chiefs usually win in a blowout.

2. Oakland destroyed the Broncos here, which means that the Broncos have a chance to return the favor. They probably won't.

3. San Diego. The only way the Broncos win that game is if the entire Chargers squad sleeps through their snooze alarm and misses the game. They destroyed the Colts in INDY where Manning wins virtually always. The Broncos will be lucky if they lose by less than 30 points.

That means probably a 1-5 record in the division and guarantees last place at no better than 5-11 (Houston and Arizona games are winnable, although nobody should be surprised if they lose both).

McDaniels won't survive that. :coffee:

robert ethan
12-02-2010, 03:23 PM
Paige is jealous that a person who is about 1/3 his age has so much more power, prestige, and money. Sorry Woody, they ain't ever going to hire you.:coffee:

silkamilkamonico
12-02-2010, 03:24 PM
I think it works the complete opposite way, too.

He might risk everything you mentioned for one more season if he honestly believes that McDaniels can actually deliver a SuperBowl or too in the future. Most any owners in the NFl would.

Keeping McDaniels or firing McDaniels, the organization is headed into darker times I firmly believe.

T.K.O.
12-02-2010, 03:28 PM
I've mentioned this in threads, but Woody Paige makes it quite distinct. This is a little discussed and much underrated factor in Bowlen's decision making:



Billionaires don't want to be mocked and laughed at by other members of their exclusive club. Hence, Bowlen might not care what the plebes in this city and around the country think of his decisions, but he DOES care what other rich members of the CLUB think about HIM.

And right now they think he's a bumbling fool who's run his franchise into the ground. Jerry Jones they respect because he FIRED Wade Phillips and turned his franchise around.

It does NOT appear that Bowlen will be able to escape firing McDaniels unless some miracle happens and the Broncos emerge from games with Oakland, KC and San Diego with wins.

And a snowball in Hell has a MUCH BETTER CHANCE than that. :coffee:

1. The Broncos NEVER win in KC. The Chiefs usually win in a blowout.

2. Oakland destroyed the Broncos here, which means that the Broncos have a chance to return the favor. They probably won't.

3. San Diego. The only way the Broncos win that game is if the entire Chargers squad sleeps through their snooze alarm and misses the game. They destroyed the Colts in INDY where Manning wins virtually always. The Broncos will be lucky if they lose by less than 30 points.

That means probably a 1-5 record in the division and guarantees last place at no better than 5-11 (Houston and Arizona games are winnable, although nobody should be surprised if they lose both).

McDaniels won't survive that. :coffee:

1. the broncos DID last year

2.broncos beat oakland MOST of the time for the last decade or 2

3.maybe hocculi will be the ref;)

GEM
12-02-2010, 04:01 PM
Paige is jealous that a person who is about 1/3 his age has so much more power, prestige, and money. Sorry Woody, they ain't ever going to hire you.:coffee:

Sorry Woody...you'll never be the failure that is Josh McD. Take your consolation prize of being a well regarded, long time, and leading writer for a major market newspaper.

Cugel
12-02-2010, 05:08 PM
Don't you people realize it doesn't matter what you think of Woody Paige? That's pure Ad Hominem attacks. Rather than bothering to address the SUBSTANCE of what is said just attack the person who said it!

And it's a pure losing argument. Who cares if the person who said it is a blithering moron? It's obvious that Page DOES talk to people around the league (it's his job). And equally obvious that none of the other NFL owners can believe McDaniels is just sitting there while his franchise goes into the toilet.

They wouldn't sit still for it and can't understand why he does.

Of course, many of them suffer from the OPPOSITE problem -- impatience. But having TOO MUCH patience with an obvious failure is no virtue either.

The point for those who missed it is that Bowlen's peer pressure is NOT the fans or media, but the other owners and GMs around the league. These people are his equals, members of a very exclusive club that you need at least $600 million to a Billion $ to enter.

Being an NFL club owner gives you rock star status that no amount of money alone can confer. (Personally I loath George Bush, but don't you think Jerry Jones scores big-time when he's able to host an ex-President in his exclusive club level suite)?

Think just an ordinary multi-millionaire gets to hob-nob with ex-Presidents, and international dignitaries?

But, all that status is ruined if everybody in the club thinks you're a screwup.

He's got to resent McDaniels for making him look like a fool. No matte what he says in public, wouldn't YOU be mad at McDaniels for putting YOU in this position of either keeping a total failure in office, thus totally alienating the fans and media and inviting further contempt from fellow owners, OR firing him and admitting "boy did I screw up royally in hiring this clown! Now I'm stuck with paying him a couple of Million dollars to sit on his ass." :coffee:

Personally, I'd be BEYOND PISSED if someone I trusted with my business screwed me over like that. I suspect most of you would be too. :coffee:

Mike
12-02-2010, 05:11 PM
Paige is jealous that a person who is about 1/3 his age has so much more power, prestige, and money. Sorry Woody, they ain't ever going to hire you.:coffee:

Yeah, I am sure that is it.

Dirk
12-02-2010, 05:17 PM
It depends Cugel.

1. We have NO IDEA what Bowlen and McD have talked about behind closed doors.
2. We have NO IDEA if Bowlen is OK with what has happen or not.
3. We have NO IDEA what will happen after the season.
4. We have NO IDEA if Bowlen has accepted what has occured and is willing to wait it out.

So, since we can only go by hear say and a ton of fan disgust (including myself) we still have NO IDEA.

What happens if we only win 1 more game this year and McD takes us into the playoffs next year? And then he takes us to the SB the year after that?

Would that take the bitter taste out of everyone's mouth?

That's why I am in a wait and see mode and OK with McD having one more year to work on the defense. If he fails with the defense next year then I am on the fire wagon.

Anyway, I just had to say it. :phew: glad to get that off my chest. LOL

NightTrainLayne
12-02-2010, 05:19 PM
I have to quibble with the folks who keep saying we "never win in K.C."

We're not winning in K.C. this year, of that I'm sure.

But we've won there 2 out of the last 4 years. I was there and saw it with my own eyes in 2007. Winning 2 out of 4 makes it hard to say it "never" happens.

Also, one of my favorite playoff wins was in Arrowhead.

Back to topic. . .we're going to get embarrassed this weekend. Just prepare yourselves ahead of time and it won't be so painful.

Edit: Corrected 2008 to 2007, got the years mixed up.

topscribe
12-02-2010, 05:24 PM
Paige is jealous that a person who is about 1/3 his age has so much more power, prestige, and money. Sorry Woody, they ain't ever going to hire you.:coffee:

I have read Woody Paige for a long, long time - way back into RMN days.

Woody is a crackpot. But once in a while, he hits the nail on the head.

This is one of those times.

An ad hominem attack on the writer will not change the truth if he writes it . . .


EDIT


Don't you people realize it doesn't matter what you think of Woody Paige? That's pure Ad Hominem attacks. Rather than bothering to address the SUBSTANCE of what is said just attack the person who said it!

And it's a pure losing argument. Who cares if the person who said it is a blithering moron? It's obvious that Page DOES talk to people around the league (it's his job). And equally obvious that none of the other NFL owners can believe McDaniels is just sitting there while his franchise goes into the toilet.

They wouldn't sit still for it and can't understand why he does.

Of course, many of them suffer from the OPPOSITE problem -- impatience. But having TOO MUCH patience with an obvious failure is no virtue either.

The point for those who missed it is that Bowlen's peer pressure is NOT the fans or media, but the other owners and GMs around the league. These people are his equals, members of a very exclusive club that you need at least $600 million to a Billion $ to enter.

Being an NFL club owner gives you rock star status that no amount of money alone can confer. (Personally I loath George Bush, but don't you think Jerry Jones scores big-time when he's able to host an ex-President in his exclusive club level suite)?

Think just an ordinary multi-millionaire gets to hob-nob with ex-Presidents, and international dignitaries?

But, all that status is ruined if everybody in the club thinks you're a screwup.

He's got to resent McDaniels for making him look like a fool. No matte what he says in public, wouldn't YOU be mad at McDaniels for putting YOU in this position of either keeping a total failure in office, thus totally alienating the fans and media and inviting further contempt from fellow owners, OR firing him and admitting "boy did I screw up royally in hiring this clown! Now I'm stuck with paying him a couple of Million dollars to sit on his ass." :coffee:

Personally, I'd be BEYOND PISSED if someone I trusted with my business screwed me over like that. I suspect most of you would be too. :coffee:

Oops . . . wrote mine before I read yours . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

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slim
12-02-2010, 05:24 PM
And right now they think he's a bumbling fool who's run his franchise into the ground. Jerry Jones they respect because he FIRED Wade Phillips and turned his franchise around.



LOL, yeah they are now a juggernaut!

Lancane
12-02-2010, 05:39 PM
I have to quibble with the folks who keep saying we "never win in K.C."

We're not winning in K.C. this year, of that I'm sure.

But we've won there 2 out of the last 4 years. I was there and saw it with my own eyes in 2008. Winning 2 out of 4 makes it hard to say it "never" happens.

Also, one of my favorite playoff wins was in Arrowhead.

Back to topic. . .we're going to get embarrassed this weekend. Just prepare yourselves ahead of time and it won't be so painful.

You mean when we had Cutler, the year he was selected to go to the Pro Bowl before some ass-hat came in and decided to trade him and screw everything up and now we're a sincerely a bad pun in the league. Yeah, I'd agree with you, we could have won in Kansas City.

Ravage!!!
12-02-2010, 05:43 PM
Nope... we lost in KC in 2008. I was there. Thats when Marshall and Royal both fumbled the ball away. We were 3-0, the chiefs were 0-3.

nevcraw
12-02-2010, 05:49 PM
It depends Cugel.

1. We have NO IDEA what Bowlen and McD have talked about behind closed doors.
2. We have NO IDEA if Bowlen is OK with what has happen or not.
3. We have NO IDEA what will happen after the season.
4. We have NO IDEA if Bowlen has accepted what has occured and is willing to wait it out.

So, since we can only go by hear say and a ton of fan disgust (including myself) we still have NO IDEA.

What happens if we only win 1 more game this year and McD takes us into the playoffs next year? And then he takes us to the SB the year after that?

Would that take the bitter taste out of everyone's mouth?

That's why I am in a wait and see mode and OK with McD having one more year to work on the defense. If he fails with the defense next year then I am on the fire wagon.

Anyway, I just had to say it. :phew: glad to get that off my chest. LOL

a little common sense would give an "IDEA" on 1-4.

Lancane
12-02-2010, 05:52 PM
Nope... we lost in KC in 2008. I was there. Thats when Marshall and Royal both fumbled the ball away. We were 3-0, the chiefs were 0-3.

Are you sure, absolutely positive? Because I remember, oh yeah...you're right it was in September the score was 33-19, ughhh...but we did whoop em in December...wait, we won a game in December? WTF!!!

:shocked:

It was actually in November 2007 that we beat Kansas City at home, 27-11 and yes, Cutler was the quarterback!

:D

robert ethan
12-02-2010, 06:06 PM
So Paige is an idiot 98% of the time in everyone's estimation, but when he decides to pull out the knife for Josh McDaniels, he suddenly becomes a brilliant journalist. How convenient.

topscribe
12-02-2010, 06:09 PM
So Paige is an idiot 98% of the time in everyone's estimation, but when he decides to pull out the knife for Josh McDaniels, he suddenly becomes a brilliant journalist. How convenient.

Just who in this thread said that?

Hyperbole much?

-----

dogfish
12-02-2010, 06:09 PM
Back to topic. . .we're going to get embarrassed this weekend. Just prepare yourselves ahead of time and it won't be so painful.

while i happen to agree with you, this attitude is SO WRONG. . . we shouldn't have to feel that way. . .

:yardog:

NightTrainLayne
12-03-2010, 10:32 AM
Nope... we lost in KC in 2008. I was there. Thats when Marshall and Royal both fumbled the ball away. We were 3-0, the chiefs were 0-3.

You're right. It was 2007.

Still. We've won there 2 out of the last 4 times we've been there, I got the years mixed up.

2006 L
2007 w
2008 L
2009 w

BigDaddyBronco
12-03-2010, 10:53 AM
You're right. It was 2007.

Still. We've won there 2 out of the last 4 times we've been there, I got the years mixed up.

2006 L
2007 w
2008 L
2009 w

My comment was that the Broncos don't win in Arrowhead in December. They were 1-17 against them in December until last years win. Now they are 2-17.

Nomad
12-03-2010, 10:56 AM
My comment was that the Broncos don't win in Arrowhead in December. They were 1-17 against them in December until last years win. Now they are 2-17.

It's ironic that it's been Wade and McDaniels that have gotten the wins!!:confused:

NightTrainLayne
12-03-2010, 11:02 AM
It's ironic that it's been Wade and McDaniels that have gotten the wins!!:confused:

The cold December air mixed with the greasy mullets of Arrowhead is kryptonite to Shanny's year-round tan.

Nomad
12-03-2010, 11:06 AM
The cold December air mixed with the greasy mullets of Arrowhead is kryptonite to Shanny's year-round tan.

:lol:I guess so! What was Reeves kryptonite!?!:D

BigDaddyBronco
12-03-2010, 11:13 AM
It's ironic that it's been Wade and McDaniels that have gotten the wins!!:confused:

No kidding. I was at the 2005 game at Arrowhead. We were 9-2 going into that game. Freaking Larry Johson, Eddie Kinnison, and Dante Hall beat us that game. It was pretty damn cold that day.

Northman
12-03-2010, 11:16 AM
It's ironic that it's been Wade and McDaniels that have gotten the wins!!:confused:

And yet both were mediocre HC's. It is quite telling. :lol:

Cugel
12-03-2010, 11:19 AM
It depends Cugel.

1. We have NO IDEA what Bowlen and McD have talked about behind closed doors.
2. We have NO IDEA if Bowlen is OK with what has happen or not.
3. We have NO IDEA what will happen after the season.
4. We have NO IDEA if Bowlen has accepted what has occured and is willing to wait it out.

So, since we can only go by hear say and a ton of fan disgust (including myself) we still have NO IDEA.

What happens if we only win 1 more game this year and McD takes us into the playoffs next year? And then he takes us to the SB the year after that?

Would that take the bitter taste out of everyone's mouth?

That's why I am in a wait and see mode and OK with McD having one more year to work on the defense. If he fails with the defense next year then I am on the fire wagon.

Anyway, I just had to say it. :phew: glad to get that off my chest. LOL

We actually DO have a pretty good idea what Bowlen is thinking because he'd have to be completely NUTS to think anything else. We have his history and his public statements.

It's blindly clear that:

1. He'd love nothing better than for McDaniels to succeed. He's trying to give him every chance to do so. This is both because Bowlen hired him and doesn't want to look like an idiot who made a huge blunder, and because he's investing millions of dollars in this "Experiment" and was convinced it would work.

He bought into the whole "Patriot Way" crap McDaniels was selling. He's not alone. Owners all around the league envy the Patriots' success and want to copy it. Look at all the Belicheck assistants hired as head-coaches in the NFL.

* Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns (2005–2008)
* Al Groh, New York Jets (2000)
* Josh McDaniels, Denver Broncos (2009–present)
* Eric Mangini, New York Jets (2006–2008), Cleveland Browns (2009–present)
* Nick Saban, Miami Dolphins (2005–2006)
* Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions (2009–present)

You'll notice that NONE of these guys has been successful anywhere, and yet the owners keep hiring these clowns!

Maybe at some point they'll have to admit that Belicheck's success is due to Belicheck himself plus having Tom Brady and is NOT repeatable in other cities. It's NEVER ONCE worked out (and people have been trying now for 10 years)!

NOW do you see the emotional investment Bowlen has in McDaniels?

2. OF COURSE he doesn't want to fire him. But, he also can't totally ignore the ticket-buying fans, corporate suite holders, other NFL owners, and the media. It's a business after all and unsuccessful franchises don't make nearly as much money as successful ones do.

That and his pride and prestige are tied up in the franchise and he can't just ignore what people think about it.

His success over the years made the Broncos a MUCH more valuable franchise than the market size of Denver would indicate. All that is in jeopardy now.

If nothing improves over the last 5 games, Bowlen will have no choice but to admit defeat and fire McDaniels at season's end -- because bringing him back is going to be an impossible situation with 90% of the fans hating him with a passionate hate.

Can you imagine if there's even a 2 game losing streak next year? Every home game will be total turmoil with the fans booing and staging protests and shouting insults. If you think this season is ugly, just try and imagine what Mile High will be like if Bowlen tries to inflict this loser on us for another year.

There'll be a full scale riot after every home loss. Fans will stay away from the stadium in droves. We might even see the first blacked-out Broncos home game, something inconceivable up till now.

The bottom is out of the barrel and there is simply no lower limit to how bad things can get. We're witnessing a total unraveling of a franchise from NFL elite a few years ago to bottom feeder today. That hasn't happened since the 2003-04 Raiders and before that the SB Rams after they lost Kurt Warner.

And you'll notice that the Raiders are STILL looking to claw their way back to respectability after 7 years, while the Rams are barely mediocre now (with Spanuolo).

Nomad
12-03-2010, 11:22 AM
And yet both were mediocre HC's. It is quite telling. :lol:

And what could possibly be the most mediocre coach in my years of watching the BRONCOS since the late 80s, his team goes and blows the Chiefs out! Maybe losing at Arrowhead is a good thing in the grand scheme of things!! We'll see!!

Cugel
12-03-2010, 11:27 AM
while i happen to agree with you, this attitude is SO WRONG. . . we shouldn't have to feel that way. . .

True, but we shouldn't have to have McDaniels as the coach either. :coffee:

BigDaddyBronco
12-03-2010, 11:36 AM
It's a pretty big stretch to put Schwartz in that list, yes he worked for Bellichick for 3 years in Cleveland, but then he worked for Ted Marchibroda in Baltimore for 3 years and Jeff Fischer for 11 years. I think Jeff Fischer probably had more influence on him than Bellichick.

Ravage!!!
12-03-2010, 11:44 AM
You'll notice that NONE of these guys has been successful anywhere, and yet the owners keep hiring these clowns!



I think Schwartz is doing a hell of a job in Detroit.

Nomad
12-03-2010, 11:46 AM
Listening to the Tony Bruno Show and Pat Kirwin was on speaking about the BRONCOS! He had a good take and opinion that Bowlen has given McDaniels a long leash due to being an inexperienced HC and also Xanders is an inexperienced GM, and if he would have gotten rid of him/them it would have been last week! Also he believes if Josh goes 0-5 he'll be back regardless, because Bowlen is still paying Shanahan! He also said that if Bowlen didn't have to pay Shanahan, McDaniels would have been shown the door already! Bowlen's words was just a PR move!!

:whoknows: we'll see!

Ravage!!!
12-03-2010, 11:47 AM
So Paige is an idiot 98% of the time in everyone's estimation, but when he decides to pull out the knife for Josh McDaniels, he suddenly becomes a brilliant journalist. How convenient.

Careful, you keep defending McD with your blindness and people will post up the % of time you are an idiot. :beer:

Ravage!!!
12-03-2010, 11:50 AM
Listening to the Tony Bruno Show and Pat Kirwin was on speaking about the BRONCOS! He had a good take and opinion that Bowlen has given McDaniels a long leash due to being an inexperienced HC and also Xanders is an inexperienced GM, and if he would have gotten rid of him/them it would have been last week! Also he believes if Josh goes 0-5 he'll be back regardless, because Bowlen is still paying Shanahan! He also said that if Bowlen didn't have to pay Shanahan, McDaniels would have been shown the door already! Bowlen's words was just a PR move!!

:whoknows: we'll see!

I don't believe this, because...

Bowlen was willing to pay Shanahan 7.5 million a year from 2009-2011. Now the combined money lost between whats remaining with Shanahan, and McDaniels, is less than 7.5 million (I believe), and both just have 1 more year after this of Bowlen paying it out.

He's not losing any more money, and can move on to a coach that doesn't embarrass the franchise.

BigDaddyBronco
12-03-2010, 11:59 AM
I think Schwartz is doing a hell of a job in Detroit.
OMG, they are 2-9, fire Jim Schwartz immediately!

Nomad
12-03-2010, 12:00 PM
I don't believe this, because...

Bowlen was willing to pay Shanahan 7.5 million a year from 2009-2011. Now the combined money lost between whats remaining with Shanahan, and McDaniels, is less than 7.5 million (I believe), and both just have 1 more year after this of Bowlen paying it out.

He's not losing any more money, and can move on to a coach that doesn't embarrass the franchise.

Just passing along info/opinions from talking heads and listening to SportingNewsRadio over the interweb!!

Cugel
12-03-2010, 12:03 PM
I don't believe this, because...

Bowlen was willing to pay Shanahan 7.5 million a year from 2009-2011. Now the combined money lost between whats remaining with Shanahan, and McDaniels, is less than 7.5 million (I believe), and both just have 1 more year after this of Bowlen paying it out.

He's not losing any more money, and can move on to a coach that doesn't embarrass the franchise.

I think Kirwan is right that this is exactly what Bowlen would LOVE to do. But, finishing the season 3-13 is going to force his hand. It's not a question of whether he, Pat, would like to give him another chance. It's that the fans will simply explode.

You've got a very volatile situation here in Denver. We're simply not used to this kind of failure. Fans in Detroit and Cleveland and Oakland have had to develop a kind of stoicism over the years. They EXPECT losing seasons and aren't in a rage over the Lions (say) going 4-12 or something.

I mean, how many years in a row can you sustain the anger before it turns to apathy? But, we're simply NOT used to anything like this and we won't accept it.

We NEED a coaching change pronto or there'll be HELL TO PAY! And whatever Bowlen may WANT to do he just can't ignore that fan outrage.

He's got to have an EXCUSE to renew McDaniels for another year. Something he can point to and say "I believe we're turning things around and I'm optimistic over next season."

And losing all your division games except 1 is just not going to give him that excuse. You've got to beat your division opponents even if you don't have a good overall record. And McDaniels just hasn't done it.

Cugel
12-03-2010, 12:11 PM
OMG, they are 2-9, fire Jim Schwartz immediately!

They probably SHOULD fire Jim Schwartz (and they will, after next season). But I've got news for you! THIS AIN'T DETROIT!

Their problem is that they've had NO stability. Every 2 or 3 years they have to sweep out the old regime, get rid of all the player failures the old coach brought in, and start totally from scratch.

At some point, you need to just give a guy a chance. But here in Denver, McDaniels didn't inherit a 4-12 team. He inherited a team that won went 9-7 and 8-8 Shanny's final two years. And they had a TON of good young players to build around, players who had gone to Pro-bowls as well as a solid OL with a good mix of veteran leadership and talented rookies. THings could only expect to get better.

Now less than 2 years later we're looking at the Hindenburg disaster! :coffee:

http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/hindenburg.jpg
"This administration isn't sinking like the Titanic! If anything, this administration is soaring! Like the Hindenburg!"

-- Steven Colbert

T.K.O.
12-03-2010, 12:14 PM
i kinda doubt that bowlen would retain mcD based on the fact that he still has to give 3.? mil to shanny next year.
that's no different than paying a player who gets injured or has minimal production like D.T. or Tebow.
the NFL is HUGE $$$ and it would really be no biggie for pat to blow 5-6 mil in a season.it happens all the time.
look at what doom is making this year?( i'm not doggin' on doom ,just saying sometimes owner's get stuck with the bill and get nothing in return)
it could be a small part of the equation ,but not a determining factor by any means

Bosco
12-03-2010, 06:02 PM
Don't you people realize it doesn't matter what you think of Woody Paige? That's pure Ad Hominem attacks. Rather than bothering to address the SUBSTANCE of what is said just attack the person who said it!

And it's a pure losing argument. Who cares if the person who said it is a blithering moron? It's obvious that Page DOES talk to people around the league (it's his job). And equally obvious that none of the other NFL owners can believe McDaniels is just sitting there while his franchise goes into the toilet.

They wouldn't sit still for it and can't understand why he does.

Of course, many of them suffer from the OPPOSITE problem -- impatience. But having TOO MUCH patience with an obvious failure is no virtue either.

The point for those who missed it is that Bowlen's peer pressure is NOT the fans or media, but the other owners and GMs around the league. These people are his equals, members of a very exclusive club that you need at least $600 million to a Billion $ to enter.

Being an NFL club owner gives you rock star status that no amount of money alone can confer. (Personally I loath George Bush, but don't you think Jerry Jones scores big-time when he's able to host an ex-President in his exclusive club level suite)?

Think just an ordinary multi-millionaire gets to hob-nob with ex-Presidents, and international dignitaries?

But, all that status is ruined if everybody in the club thinks you're a screwup.

He's got to resent McDaniels for making him look like a fool. No matte what he says in public, wouldn't YOU be mad at McDaniels for putting YOU in this position of either keeping a total failure in office, thus totally alienating the fans and media and inviting further contempt from fellow owners, OR firing him and admitting "boy did I screw up royally in hiring this clown! Now I'm stuck with paying him a couple of Million dollars to sit on his ass." :coffee:

Personally, I'd be BEYOND PISSED if someone I trusted with my business screwed me over like that. I suspect most of you would be too. :coffee:

http://www.timskelton.com/postpics/drama_oh.jpg

Ravage!!!
12-03-2010, 06:20 PM
They probably SHOULD fire Jim Schwartz (and they will, after next season). But I've got news for you! THIS AIN'T DETROIT!



I'll take that bet! :beer:

Jake Klug
12-03-2010, 06:55 PM
Listening to the Tony Bruno Show and Pat Kirwin was on speaking about the BRONCOS! He had a good take and opinion that Bowlen has given McDaniels a long leash due to being an inexperienced HC and also Xanders is an inexperienced GM, and if he would have gotten rid of him/them it would have been last week! Also he believes if Josh goes 0-5 he'll be back regardless, because Bowlen is still paying Shanahan! He also said that if Bowlen didn't have to pay Shanahan, McDaniels would have been shown the door already! Bowlen's words was just a PR move!!

:whoknows: we'll see!

Thats what Ive been saying. Why is everyone choosing to ignore Pats 180 with the two comments? That should have told people everything.

Pats lying just so people will continue to spend money while he strings them along.

Dont be played like a fool by Pat.

JDL
12-03-2010, 07:37 PM
OMG, they are 2-9, fire Jim Schwartz immediately!

Margin of Defeat

5pts (@CHI [9-2])
3pts (PHI [8-4])
14pts (@MIN [4-7])
2pts (@GB [7-4])
8pts (@NYG [7-4])
3pts (NYJ [9-2])
2pts (@BUF [2-9])
16pts (@DAL [3-8]), 19-21 going into 4th qtr
21pts (NE [9-2]), 24-24 going into 4th qtr

Average margin of defeat = 8.2pts/defeat

Denver's average margin of defeat? was over 16pts/defeat until that big comeback after getting blown out by the Rams to finish within 3pts.. bringing the season total to 13.25pts/defeat ... basically an average of 2TDs per defeat... or we are getting our @sses handed to us far to routinely.

So, I would say Schwartz with his two top QBs out for large sections of the season has done a great job keeping his team focused and motivated and playing hard.

I'd certainly take that over the current in Denver.

Jake Klug
12-03-2010, 07:45 PM
Margin of Defeat

5pts (@CHI [9-2])
3pts (PHI [8-4])
14pts (@MIN [4-7])
2pts (@GB [7-4])
8pts (@NYG [7-4])
3pts (NYJ [9-2])
2pts (@BUF [2-9])
16pts (@DAL [3-8]), 19-21 going into 4th qtr
21pts (NE [9-2]), 24-24 going into 4th qtr

Average margin of defeat = 8.2pts/defeat

Denver's average margin of defeat? was over 16pts/defeat until that big comeback after getting blown out by the Rams to finish within 3pts.. bringing the season total to 13.25pts/defeat ... basically an average of 2TDs per defeat... or we are getting our @sses handed to us far to routinely.

So, I would say Schwartz with his two top QBs out for large sections of the season has done a great job keeping his team focused and motivated and playing hard.

I'd certainly take that over the current in Denver.

Yeah, Schwartz has been doing a good job.